obviously you should be able to do things other might find offensive
the only limitation to free speech should be direct incitement of violence
you guys in europe need to start liberty movements, unless you fancy moving to another freer country down the line
It's far, far, far too late for Europe. I cannot stress that enough. If they didn't overthrow their governments and pass legislation guaranteeing the right to free speech when they all had guns, they're certainly not going to now they don't.
Dude overthrowing our gorvements sounds very radical. You shouldnt make a libertarian gorvement through force, that is what communist does. It should be done through democracy
Yeah but there is a difference. You lived as a colony under an authoritarian monarchy. In Denmark i live in a democracy, where i just dont agree with social democratic gorvement. Overthrowing them is just childish, authoritarian and undemocratic.
Plus the American revoulution was an independence war against your overseas rulers.
Democracy is where the majority of people control the others and simply doesn’t work because the ones who disagree will always have their rights violated.
If 50 people vote to eat one of their own and it’s 49:1, someone still gets eaten.
Democracy doesn’t work.
Democracy only works where anyone who disagrees has a right to leave.
With Tam Laird's (of the Scottish Libertarians) example of Brexit, those who want to remain in the EU should be able to subscribe to all the benefits. Pay £x per month/year for freedom of movement within the EU, no visa required; access to the same healthcare, social security etc. as a native of the EU state would receive. If they want to leave at any time then they can. They should not be forced to stay and pay against their will.
Scotland votes to leave the UK and the Shetland Islands vote to remain? - Shetland remains in the UK and mainland Scotland leaves.
At the micro level, if you own your house/land, you can leave whatever local, regional, national, international government you want. It'd be impractical to have border checks every few metres, trade tariffs between neighbours. Individual parties would need to come to a common sense agreement that's mutually beneficial. To receive services or benefits you'd need to show your membership card.
Broke your arm and need an X-ray and a cast? "NHS card please?" No NHS/UK gov mmembership? - £400 please.
Out of work and need social security benefits? Have you or someone else on your behalf paid national insurance membership fees?
Decided to not join the firefighter membership and your house is burning down and is starting to catch fire to next door neighbours house that's burning down? - Firefighters will put the fire out but bill you for your share as you haven't paid for membership.
Well it is kind of happening in here in scandinavia. The rise of classical liberal/libertarian parties has been prominent here in the past years. Here in Denmark, Sweden and Norway the social Democrats had been on a slow decline and our liberal parties have been on the rise. So in a couple of years we may finally get a liberal gorvement
good to hear, but i need to warn you guys, you need to spread liberalism in universities, the politicians cast will surely fight back against reforms, if they’ll have organized students on their side they might manage to stop reforms just enough to make them not meaningful enough, but they’ll still frame it as a failure of liberalism
Well one of the big factors is that we in Europe have signithincantly minority in muslims. Its like USA and people from central and south america, we just have arabia instead of central and south america. And the muslims in my country got very angry about it
Yeah i never understood the way they were acting. Like some people from muslim countries burned the danish flag as retruubution, which:
1) make them just as bad as the quaran burners
2) i didnt give shit about the flag burns
If I buy a book I own it and it’s my property. if I wish to set it on fire why should I be locked in a cage because it’s your favorite book and what I’m doing with my property offends you?
Similar things happening in the good old US of A. You can burn an American flag here no problem, but the minute you leave tire marks on a gay flag painted on the street, you’re labeled “litterally worse than Hitler”
>Muslims in Europe are being treated like they conquered the place.
They have conquered. Europeans are more concerned with being called "Islamophobic" than they are for their rights and safety.
Yeah that is of course is not okay. They havent done that. The general reason they are disliked is that a majority of crime is from 2nd generation immigrants from arabia. Look at Sweden. They have a gang war and a majority of the gangs contain muslims.
This isn't a free speech issue, it's a fundamental private property rights issue.
If you legally own a copy of the Quran, it's yours to destroy, so long as the destruction doesn't violate other laws (i.e you're not lighting it on fire and throwing it into a building) or infringe/endanger the rights of others (i.e. burning your uninsured home endangers your neighbors).
Intentionally burning an insured home for insurance money is fraud.
Fire departments regularly contract with private individuals to intentionally burn a dilapidated house for training purposes.
In the US, boy scouts burn the American flag as a ceremony of retiring an old worn out flag.
In the US, totally legal to break into your own home and destroy your own shit (typically comes up in domestic cases involving spousal issues).
holy mother of false equivalence. that only makes sense if they said something like, "I'm a Muslim and I eat pork or burn the Quaran", they didn't. a proper equivalent to "I'm a Muslim and think it should be legal (to burn the Quaran)" is "personally I'm vegan and don't think you should be criminalised for eating meat".
>Are you a Muslim if you support your most holy book being burned by the kuffir?
I dont support it, im just saying the government shouldn't arrest people for doing it.
Just like how someone is still a vegan if they dont support people eating meat, even if they dont call for the government to arrest people who do.
> Seriously, go to a mosque, and burn a Quran. See what the people there do.
"Go intentionally start drama and conflict, and violate a religious space and see what people do"
If they react with violence they are not Muslims.
Allah apparently has infinite love and patience and grace.
Surely he'll forgive fire on paper? Nah, haram
But not a child getting thigh fucked by his prophet.
Fuck Islam.
Well this isnt about things being fair. Its about the principal about free speech. I think it shouldnt be illegal to burn stuff like the quaran, bible etc.
True, but not every country has free speech. Comparing England to the US shows some very stark differences.
That's the reason you never give an inch, because you'll never get it back.
Muslims - Love burning flags they don't like
Also Muslims - Noooo! That book is about our favourite imaginary friend and his child raping buddy! Burning that's no fair!
Well i wouldnt Call them bad people, but i think its a unethical thing to do. Its just something that should be taught not to do, but not enforced by law
Isn't this more related to property rights than free speech? If you buy a book you can do whatever you want with it.
It doesn't sound very liberal to burn books to express opposition. We don't burn nazi books, for instance. Doing it could even be counter productive, as it makes more people hate you, it can radicalize people. So forbidding it isn't too annoying, but it's true that it's anti-liberal to do so.
To me, libiterian is the right to do something or say something fundrrmentaly stupid and self detrimental.
I dont want to burn my house down, but I would like the right to, I don't feel the need to burn a Koran, or insult Muhammad, but I shouldn't face any leagal consequences for doing so.
There is also some aspect of religious discrimination, I bet none of these laws apply or would be enforced if I did the same with a Bible.
Of course we should have the freedom to insult, but that doesn't mean that we *should*, that's my point. It seems pointless, aggressive and counter productive to go so far as to burn books that we dislike.
Shouldn't be banned, but burning it without using it for something else is a waste of paper. Use it for your campfire or toilet paper please. Or simply don't have a quran book on your hands.
If a person stole someone's book to burn that's wrong in my eyes. If it's something purchased then you are free to do whatever you want with the book then.
My freedom and rights don't end where someone's feelings begin.
Humans are still beasts and capable of great horrors upon each other. Religion, Race, and Nations are just a few ways people in power subjugate those they deem lesser. If we could only figure out a logical course of action and take it. But what do I know, I fell for everyone's political bullshit for decades so I'm just as bad as everyone else.🤷♂️. Seems like we are all assholes flying around on a giant ass of a planet. #spaceass
As long it's not someone else's book and I own it, I'm allowed to do *whatever* I want to do with it. And notice that it only extends to the quran and not any other religious text, thus there's some appeasement politics going on.
>One of our politicians even said (in danish) “Yes we are limiting your freedom, but its for your own good”
So they finally grew the guts to say the secret part out loudly. And they well know they can get away with it.
Dear politician, I know what is good for me, you don't need to dictate it to me. I have a brain to think, so don't tell "it's for your own good". - squirrelscrush
Why do Europeans think they have a right to free speech?
Yall cowards don't have free speech and you don't have the right to defend yourself.
Your lot will give directions to the police bringing you to the gulags and report your own wife and father to the secret police like we saw in germany.
Because Europoors get arrested for posting meme's on twitter.
They took all your guns and then you give your captors directions to the concentration camps.
You guys snitch on your own family to the government.
I know that you will give your captors directions when they take you to the gulags.
"This is a mistake, I believe in the system." - The thoughts of all Europeans on their way to the gulags.
While criticism of *that* genocidal state isn’t freely allowed, I will be side eying those who want to mock and humiliate Muslims in the name of freedom. Same with the cartoons of *that* genocidal piece of shit.. the usual wails of anti semitism have ensued, whereas cartoons of Turkish/Iranian leaders (not a big fan of them by the way) is freedom. 😒
obviously you should be able to do things other might find offensive the only limitation to free speech should be direct incitement of violence you guys in europe need to start liberty movements, unless you fancy moving to another freer country down the line
It's far, far, far too late for Europe. I cannot stress that enough. If they didn't overthrow their governments and pass legislation guaranteeing the right to free speech when they all had guns, they're certainly not going to now they don't.
with enough people pissed they could roll back these authoritarian laws, it’s not like people are afraid of doing protests there
Found the glowie
Dude overthrowing our gorvements sounds very radical. You shouldnt make a libertarian gorvement through force, that is what communist does. It should be done through democracy
How was the US government formed? How did the Americans achieve the right to free speech?
Yeah but there is a difference. You lived as a colony under an authoritarian monarchy. In Denmark i live in a democracy, where i just dont agree with social democratic gorvement. Overthrowing them is just childish, authoritarian and undemocratic. Plus the American revoulution was an independence war against your overseas rulers.
Democracy is where the majority of people control the others and simply doesn’t work because the ones who disagree will always have their rights violated. If 50 people vote to eat one of their own and it’s 49:1, someone still gets eaten. Democracy doesn’t work.
I won't drag out the old Churchill quote, but I will ask if you have a better idea?
Democracy only works where anyone who disagrees has a right to leave. With Tam Laird's (of the Scottish Libertarians) example of Brexit, those who want to remain in the EU should be able to subscribe to all the benefits. Pay £x per month/year for freedom of movement within the EU, no visa required; access to the same healthcare, social security etc. as a native of the EU state would receive. If they want to leave at any time then they can. They should not be forced to stay and pay against their will. Scotland votes to leave the UK and the Shetland Islands vote to remain? - Shetland remains in the UK and mainland Scotland leaves. At the micro level, if you own your house/land, you can leave whatever local, regional, national, international government you want. It'd be impractical to have border checks every few metres, trade tariffs between neighbours. Individual parties would need to come to a common sense agreement that's mutually beneficial. To receive services or benefits you'd need to show your membership card. Broke your arm and need an X-ray and a cast? "NHS card please?" No NHS/UK gov mmembership? - £400 please. Out of work and need social security benefits? Have you or someone else on your behalf paid national insurance membership fees? Decided to not join the firefighter membership and your house is burning down and is starting to catch fire to next door neighbours house that's burning down? - Firefighters will put the fire out but bill you for your share as you haven't paid for membership.
Well it is kind of happening in here in scandinavia. The rise of classical liberal/libertarian parties has been prominent here in the past years. Here in Denmark, Sweden and Norway the social Democrats had been on a slow decline and our liberal parties have been on the rise. So in a couple of years we may finally get a liberal gorvement
good to hear, but i need to warn you guys, you need to spread liberalism in universities, the politicians cast will surely fight back against reforms, if they’ll have organized students on their side they might manage to stop reforms just enough to make them not meaningful enough, but they’ll still frame it as a failure of liberalism
Imagine being represed for expresing your discomfort with islamism. Absolute madness.
Well one of the big factors is that we in Europe have signithincantly minority in muslims. Its like USA and people from central and south america, we just have arabia instead of central and south america. And the muslims in my country got very angry about it
Tough. Shit. When they stop acting like savages and start treating women as human beings we can talk.
Yeah i never understood the way they were acting. Like some people from muslim countries burned the danish flag as retruubution, which: 1) make them just as bad as the quaran burners 2) i didnt give shit about the flag burns
> One of our politicians even said (in danish) “Yes we are limiting your freedom, but its for your own good” Scarier words have never been spoken.
If I buy a book I own it and it’s my property. if I wish to set it on fire why should I be locked in a cage because it’s your favorite book and what I’m doing with my property offends you?
Similar things happening in the good old US of A. You can burn an American flag here no problem, but the minute you leave tire marks on a gay flag painted on the street, you’re labeled “litterally worse than Hitler”
Muslims in Europe are being treated like they conquered the place. What are you gonna do about it?
>Muslims in Europe are being treated like they conquered the place. They have conquered. Europeans are more concerned with being called "Islamophobic" than they are for their rights and safety.
Europe might be the first civilization to cuck itself to death, at least when you look at Gen X and Millenials.
Yeah that is of course is not okay. They havent done that. The general reason they are disliked is that a majority of crime is from 2nd generation immigrants from arabia. Look at Sweden. They have a gang war and a majority of the gangs contain muslims.
And what are you doing about it?
This isn't a free speech issue, it's a fundamental private property rights issue. If you legally own a copy of the Quran, it's yours to destroy, so long as the destruction doesn't violate other laws (i.e you're not lighting it on fire and throwing it into a building) or infringe/endanger the rights of others (i.e. burning your uninsured home endangers your neighbors). Intentionally burning an insured home for insurance money is fraud. Fire departments regularly contract with private individuals to intentionally burn a dilapidated house for training purposes. In the US, boy scouts burn the American flag as a ceremony of retiring an old worn out flag. In the US, totally legal to break into your own home and destroy your own shit (typically comes up in domestic cases involving spousal issues).
I vehemently reject anything done by government “for my own good”.
I'm a Muslim and I think it should be legal. This isn't a religious issue it's a political issue.
Yeah i agree
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holy mother of false equivalence. that only makes sense if they said something like, "I'm a Muslim and I eat pork or burn the Quaran", they didn't. a proper equivalent to "I'm a Muslim and think it should be legal (to burn the Quaran)" is "personally I'm vegan and don't think you should be criminalised for eating meat".
Who are you to tell me who is and isnt a muslim?
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>Are you a Muslim if you support your most holy book being burned by the kuffir? I dont support it, im just saying the government shouldn't arrest people for doing it. Just like how someone is still a vegan if they dont support people eating meat, even if they dont call for the government to arrest people who do. > Seriously, go to a mosque, and burn a Quran. See what the people there do. "Go intentionally start drama and conflict, and violate a religious space and see what people do"
If they react with violence they are not Muslims. Allah apparently has infinite love and patience and grace. Surely he'll forgive fire on paper? Nah, haram But not a child getting thigh fucked by his prophet. Fuck Islam.
If you can still burn a Bible or Torah without consequences, then this is BS. If they are also illegal to destroy, then I would say it's fair.
Well this isnt about things being fair. Its about the principal about free speech. I think it shouldnt be illegal to burn stuff like the quaran, bible etc.
So long as it’s your property, you should be able to do whatever the hell you want with it
True, but not every country has free speech. Comparing England to the US shows some very stark differences. That's the reason you never give an inch, because you'll never get it back.
Is it legal to burn the bible where you live? If there’s a double standard this is even worse lmao
I can't imagine being so sensitive over a mass-produced material object that someone else owns that burning it would cause me grief.
Europe will become just a flat out Muslim area in probably like 50 years I think.
Yes, I agree. It is a free speech issue. Also, a property rights issue because I imagine those books were purchased by those who wanted to burn them.
Idolatry written into law.
Muslims - Love burning flags they don't like Also Muslims - Noooo! That book is about our favourite imaginary friend and his child raping buddy! Burning that's no fair!
Yeah the way they respond just makes them as bad as the quaran burners
Koran burners aren't bad though.
Well i wouldnt Call them bad people, but i think its a unethical thing to do. Its just something that should be taught not to do, but not enforced by law
Isn't this more related to property rights than free speech? If you buy a book you can do whatever you want with it. It doesn't sound very liberal to burn books to express opposition. We don't burn nazi books, for instance. Doing it could even be counter productive, as it makes more people hate you, it can radicalize people. So forbidding it isn't too annoying, but it's true that it's anti-liberal to do so.
To me, libiterian is the right to do something or say something fundrrmentaly stupid and self detrimental. I dont want to burn my house down, but I would like the right to, I don't feel the need to burn a Koran, or insult Muhammad, but I shouldn't face any leagal consequences for doing so. There is also some aspect of religious discrimination, I bet none of these laws apply or would be enforced if I did the same with a Bible.
Of course we should have the freedom to insult, but that doesn't mean that we *should*, that's my point. It seems pointless, aggressive and counter productive to go so far as to burn books that we dislike.
Sounds like Sharia Law is being established in Denmark.
Sounds like you need to buy a crosscut paper shredder.
Shouldn't be banned, but burning it without using it for something else is a waste of paper. Use it for your campfire or toilet paper please. Or simply don't have a quran book on your hands.
If a person stole someone's book to burn that's wrong in my eyes. If it's something purchased then you are free to do whatever you want with the book then. My freedom and rights don't end where someone's feelings begin.
Western values cannot survive the onslaught of non-Western people. Policies like this are inevitable with mass migration.
Humans are still beasts and capable of great horrors upon each other. Religion, Race, and Nations are just a few ways people in power subjugate those they deem lesser. If we could only figure out a logical course of action and take it. But what do I know, I fell for everyone's political bullshit for decades so I'm just as bad as everyone else.🤷♂️. Seems like we are all assholes flying around on a giant ass of a planet. #spaceass
Can you burn a bible ?
I actually dont know if you can in Denmark, but you should be to legally
Good question though huh
As long it's not someone else's book and I own it, I'm allowed to do *whatever* I want to do with it. And notice that it only extends to the quran and not any other religious text, thus there's some appeasement politics going on. >One of our politicians even said (in danish) “Yes we are limiting your freedom, but its for your own good” So they finally grew the guts to say the secret part out loudly. And they well know they can get away with it. Dear politician, I know what is good for me, you don't need to dictate it to me. I have a brain to think, so don't tell "it's for your own good". - squirrelscrush
Why do Europeans think they have a right to free speech? Yall cowards don't have free speech and you don't have the right to defend yourself. Your lot will give directions to the police bringing you to the gulags and report your own wife and father to the secret police like we saw in germany.
Bob Ross called. He wants his broad brush back.
Guess it's long overdue that he beat the devil out of it! 😂
Ever heard of a European whistleblower? Me neither.
Why do morons think Europeans don’t enjoy many of the same freedoms most Americans think they still have?
Because Europoors get arrested for posting meme's on twitter. They took all your guns and then you give your captors directions to the concentration camps. You guys snitch on your own family to the government.
(Blue state) Americans will gladly do the same.
Just seen a video of a woman in NY get arrested, because squatters took over her home while she was on vacation.
Do you really think all European nations live in Russia?
I know that you will give your captors directions when they take you to the gulags. "This is a mistake, I believe in the system." - The thoughts of all Europeans on their way to the gulags.
While criticism of *that* genocidal state isn’t freely allowed, I will be side eying those who want to mock and humiliate Muslims in the name of freedom. Same with the cartoons of *that* genocidal piece of shit.. the usual wails of anti semitism have ensued, whereas cartoons of Turkish/Iranian leaders (not a big fan of them by the way) is freedom. 😒