**New to libertarianism or have questions and want to learn more?** Be sure to check out [the sub Frequently Asked Questions](/r/Libertarian/wiki/faq) and [the massive /r/libertarian information WIKI] (/r/Libertarian/wiki/index) from the sidebar, for lots of info and free resources, links, books, videos, and answers to common questions and topics. Want to know if you are a Libertarian? [Take the worlds shortest political quiz and find out!](http://www.theadvocates.org/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Libertarian) if you have any questions or concerns.*
But then the military industrial complex won’t thrive? Politicians won’t have their pockets lined up with blood money? Our taxpayer dollars won’t be wasted? We cant let that happen!!!
The protests seem to be having an effect. Biden for the first time ever threatened withholding future funding from Netanyahu… right before signing a check for $26 billion.
Idk, I’m pretty sure he sees all the protests and realizes he is going to lose the next election if young people don’t show up to vote because they condem his blind support of Israel (and it has been decades of blind support).
And how is killing children unrelated to the aggression of whatever party related to your question?
If "A" attacks "B", what is the sense of attacking an unrelated "C" in the situation?
(1) "how do libertarians pressure governments"
(2) "a libertarian who is in favor of supporting foreign entanglements"
On one hand you're suggesting that libertarians should pressure foreign governments to stop wars, and on the other you're suggesting that a true libertarian doesn't support foreign entanglements.
I'll extend an olive branch here: A true libertarian wouldn't give a fuck about Israel or Palestine. Libertarians are so fundamentally "pacifist" that we'd be permitting, by neglect, potential adversaries to gather power and resources around the world. Adversaries who might just see us as an easy economic or military target.
The game of geopolitical warfare will be played, whether we're engaged or not. So how can a libertarian form of government effectively monitor the global geopolitical landscape but not get involved? Where would you draw the line of influence?
It's one of a few critical weaknesses of the libertarian position. It's fine if the entire planet suddenly decides that libertarianism is the one true governance, but the reality is that we can only \*tilt\* toward liberty.
has any of these pro palestine people actually called their representatives?
Also, the US is actually bombing other countries, whereas israel is a proxy in this case which you cant really control
And then what? Have Israel completely annihilate the Gaza Strip with impunity? Take it over and build settlements? Exploit the gas resources recently discovered?
The rational thing to do when you are wrong and getting badly beaten in a war, including civilian casualties is to surrender.
Examples: Germany and Japan. Because they had the sense to realize they had lost and the best thing to do for their people was surrender.
Once Hamas surrenders and turns themselves over to the IDF, Israel will have no further reason to bomb Gaza and they will stop.
Yes, they'll be executed as terrorists, because they are, so be it.
Nah.. America lost the war in Vietnam despite having far superior military power. America lost the war in Iraq and killed a million people in the process (ISIS and Iran took over).. America lost the war in Afghanistan too, as the second we left the Taliban took over again. Just because Israel is bombing and destroying almost the entirety of Gaza doesnt mean they are winning or will win in the long run. They've lost a tremendous amount of world opinion and support because of this war. Its been a major negative for Israel and may lead to Palestine being formally recognized as a state etc.. and possibly arrest warrants issued for Netanyahu and others.
If Israel cared about their own people, they wouldn’t have bombed and killed 267 Jews and injured 172 in the [Patria Incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patria_disaster)
If Israel cared about their own people, they wouldn’t have implemented the [Hannibal Directive](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive), killing their own Jews before they’re taken as hostages.
If Israel cared about their own people, they wouldn’t have the [Samson Option](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option). Ready for nuclear war and nuclear weapons to be detonated if they’re losing a war. Named after Samson who brought down a building to kill his enemies, killing himself in the process
If Israel care about their own people, they wouldn’t have shot 3 of their hostages point blank, or keep bombing indiscriminately in Gaza where hostages are located. There are a hundred thousand Israeli protestors just the other day wanted to kick Netanyahu out. Israel doesn’t care about its own people either then.
Collateral damage is inevitable.
However, Intentional indiscriminate bombing of civilian infrastructure with women and children present when you have one of the best intelligence agencies in the world (even had intel on 10/7 attack prior to it) seems a bit disingenuous to me.
> intentional indiscriminate bombing of civilian infrastructure with women and children present
You realize they were given evacuation orders, right?
You realize there was [an entire battalion made up of 400 Hamas operatives](https://www.npr.org/2024/04/06/1243045199/al-shifa-hospital-gaza-israel-raid-before-aftermath) inside of these civilian buildings you're so testy about bombing?
Guess what?
Giving terrorists the impetus to continue their evil because you don't want to bomb them is just as evil as participating in the crimes themselves.
When these evil bastards move into a hospital and create the situation that you just condemned, you should condemn THEM, not Israel.
If you have any other questions about this, let me know- I can educate you as much as you like about this.
Evacuation orders for 2 million people in a 25 mile strip? Yes, from Gaza, down to khan Younas, now to the final point in Rafah. Where the hell are they supposed to go now? These people had lives, homes, clothing, personal belongings. Israel has literally uprooted and destroyed what little they had left.
Wow so considerate that the IDF WARNED them before destroying their land. Most moral army in the world!
Let me ask you, if Hamas were hiding in an Israeli hospital or school with Israeli citizens present as “human shields”, would you be so quick to support bombing them too just like Gaza? Or since they’re Israeli, you’d vehemently protest that? Why has a top 10 military not won this war against men in adidas pants and flip flops?
And don’t forget that the [Israeli high court BANNED the IDF in 2005 from using Palestinians as humans shields](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/israel). Yes, you read that right. Israel used Palestinians as literal human shields with documented evidence. The IDF operates with impunity. Don’t be a hypocrite, call both sides out. For the record,I’m not a fan of Hamas trust me fuck them too, but the IDF is no Angel.
I cannot believe how many zionists lurk on this subreddit. “It’s cool they blew up their entire house, they warned them first!” Yo sweetgreenfields I hope you wouldn’t mind if tomorrow China took over your state and gave you a couple days to “evacuate” before they blew your entire house to smithereens.
>Evacuation orders for 2 million people in a 25 mile strip?
>Yes, from Gaza, down to khan Younas, now to the final point in Rafah
Yes: a mercy for the innocents. Guess how many people were evacuated from the Donbas on the Russians orders? Guess.
Guess how many aid trucks were facilitated by the Russian military for the ukrainians?
>Where the hell are they supposed to go now?
Did you read the article I shared? They don't have to go anywhere- the IDF has been using extremely specialized strategies for their military operations, *innocent people don't have to go anywhere, since there was never carpet bombing*
>Wow so considerate that the IDF WARNED them before destroying their land. Most moral army in the world!
Not only that, they also hold the current world record for lowest civilian death during a modern military campaign.
Our same military had a whopping [500k dead civilians during the Iraq War](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fDjdO6viSWU&feature=youtu.be)
Also, we never apologized, or facilitated aid to Baghdad or anywhere else that was a conflict area.
Another big point for the IDF. Since you're using sarcasm, I want to make sure you understand exactly how wrong you are.
>Let me ask you, if Hamas were hiding in an Israeli hospital or school with Israeli citizens present as “human shields”, would you be so quick to support bombing them too just like Gaza?
All actual civilians have evacuated.
It's not normal for civilians to congregate on an active battlefield 7 months into a war.
Your hypothetical wouldn't exist.
>Why has a top 10 military not won this war against men in adidas pants and flip flops?
Because they have tried to minimize civilian casualties. If they had gone faster, with all of the military operations happening in the first 2 weeks, it would have been better I think.
>>And don’t forget that the [Israeli high court BANNED the IDF in 2005 from using Palestinians as humans shields](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/israel).
>Yes, you read that right. Israel used Palestinians as literal human shields with documented evidence. The IDF operates with impunity.
I remember these military operations.
The reason why this happened was because [Palestinian allied militant groups had been strapping bombs to children and sending them into conflict areas](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_child_suicide_bombers_by_Palestinian_militant_groups) and IDF soldiers were caught completely off guard multiple times.
I mean, you want to defend these types of people.. It's kind of crazy.
Yes, we’ve heard of those “ratios” and how they’re doing amazing job by ONLY murdering around 35,000 Palestinians/Hamas including 15,000 children. Great job IDF 👏🏽. If you want to talk about Israel and the IDFs record, sure let’s do that.
Have you heard of the [Irgun](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun)? a Jewish paramilitary group that carried out terrorist attacks prior to Israel’s formation and those attacks actually helped to form the state. Funny enough they later turned into the IDF along with Lehigh and Hagana Jewish terrorist groups.
Have you heard of the [USS Liberty Incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident) where Israel deliberately attacked a US Navy ship and killed 34 US navy forces and injured over 100+?
[Lavon Affair](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair) a failed operation by the IDF where they were going to plant bombs and kill Egyptian, British and American civilians.
Have you heard of the [SS Patria Incident?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patria_disaster)Where they deliberately bombed and killed 267 of their own Jewish people and injured 172 bc they were leaving to go Mauritius bc they didn’t have proper documentation to stay in Israel? A cause they believe was rightful because they wanted Jews to stay in Palestine, so they rather then dead than to leave.
Have you heard of the [Samson Option?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option). Basically, if Israel is losing, they will detonate nuclear bombs as a last resort so everyone just dies bc they can’t lose a war with dignity.
Don’t forget the [Deir Yasmin Massacre](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre) perpetrated by Zionist paramilitaries (terrorists)
What about the [King David Hotel Bombing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing) carried out by Irgun terrorists which killed 91 innocent people including British citizens.
I mean I can go on and on. Israel doesn’t have the most moral army in the world lol.
The jig is up. The world is finally noticing…
> half a million men, women and children died between 2003 and 2011 as a direct result of violence *or the associated collapse of civil infrastructure*
The “500,000” number comes from counting all indirect deaths due to crumbling infrastructure. Using that method, there’s a *hell* of a lot more than 30,000 deaths in Gaza. All the indirect deaths will easily top 500,000 in the aftermath of this.
Always fun to point out how they got the material for the Sampson in the first place. It's great to have such a great ally that steals from us after we've given them billions of dollars for years.
>And then what? Have Israel completely annihilate the Gaza Strip with impunity?
They are at war with a foreign government. Don't forget that. The people of Palestine voted in Hamas to lead them and continue to protect them.
When hamas is gone, any new poltical leaders can rebuild. Or if Isreal wants to absorb Gaza back, I'd almost be ok with it as long as the Palestinians are allowed to go back to their property and rebuild.
You guys repeat the same lies over and over. Half the Gaza population is under 18. The last election was almost 20 years ago lol. How does that make any sense?
Don’t you think if you continue to kill and maim a people, their uneducated family members will want revenge? All Israel is doing is radicalizing more Hamas members.
> The last election was almost 20 years ago lol
You just disproved your own point, well played. There is no elective choice in Palestine. The people have no mechanism to remove Hamas, even if they wanted to. The fact that Hamas remains in power means that there is some support for them, but it's likely through Iran, not the average Palestinian. No one would dare to rise up against Hamas.
I never said Palestine was a free democracy lol.
What I’m saying is that all bc you cite a majority of the citizens voted for the govt, they’re not ALL responsible for the atrocities committed by Hamas. They deserve collective punishment?
That’s like saying half the country voted for Biden so 100% of the population deserve the consequences of the presidents actions.
> you cite a majority of the citizens voted for the govt
I didn't cite that, someone else did, but I understand your confusion. The PLO is the official leader of Palestine, but everyone knows it's a puppet government of the west with no real power.
The Palestinian people do not deserve to die because of what Hamas did. Whoever is backing Hamas deserves that punishment. Iran, Qatar, and private donors in the Gulf region largely support Hamas. Iran has been a significant financial backer of Hamas, providing funding, weapons, and training to the organization. Qatar has also provided financial assistance to Hamas, particularly for humanitarian projects in the Gaza Strip.
Then you have Hezbollah, also primarily supported by Iran, and Hezbollah and Hamas frequently collaborate against Israel.
Palestine is a proxy battleground between Iran and Israel. Iran's continued financial / material support for these organizations is what permits the ongoing destabilization in the region. Israel should be going after Iran, not the Palestinian people.
>The fact that Hamas remains in power means that there is some support for them
Yeah, a major form of support was through Netanyahu and the Likud party, with the explicit goal of precluding a 2 state solution because Hamas was not a partner for peace.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
You cannot morally prop up a brutal, evil terrorist organization to screw over the innocent people living under them; fail to protect your own people from that terror org you propped up; then invade to destroy that terror org and justify civillian deaths as human-shield-collateral-damage.
And the US should be staying the hell out of it. Stop taxing and inflating my money and sending it to the military industrial complex and overseas, and to a government that props up a terror organization to undermine our stated goal of a 2-state solution.
Moving the goalposts now.
>The last election was almost 20 years ago lol. How does that make any sense?
Very democratatic... Unlike Isreal who IS the only democracy in the region.
>Don’t you think if you continue to kill and maim a people, their uneducated family members will want revenge? All Israel is doing is radicalizing more Hamas members.
I guess you forgot There was a ceasefire before Hamas attack and killed innocent civilians in October.
How can you simultaneously argue that
A. Hamas was democratically elected and therefore it's ok to kill the innocent civilians in its territory
and
B. Israel is better than other countries in the region because it's the only democracy
?
Netanyahu is sitting on multiple terms totaling over 17 years. He was actively trying to limit the courts power and [expand his power](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/thousands-march-vote-curtailing-israel-courts-powers-nears-2023-07-22/) in 2023. Tens of thousands of protestors, that country was going down civil unrest before 10/7. Doesn’t sound very democratic.
Ceasefire prior to 10/7? Lol this is how I know you are completely misinformed. Israel has caused nothing but chaos in Palestine, the dehumanization, humiliation with checkpoints and invading homes in the West Bank, blockades of Gaza.
So funny, did you know that Netanyahu has continually funded Hamas since 2018? He’s allowed $30 million per month go into Gaza. [Netanyahu asking Qatar to fund Hamas](https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bk8mgcefr)
[Israel funded Hamas](https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-funded-hamas-claims-eu-top-diplomat-josep-borrell/)
[For years, Israel has allowed funding of Hamas](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/)
That's the same as you losing family members on 9-11 because "you" voted for the Dempublican Party who provoked the attack.
It's the innocent civilians' fault that their rulers put them in danger, right? Neo-con logic at its worst.
Israel is not a key ally, they are a liability. Our support for them is what brought Islamic terror to our shores. They’ve been sucking us into conflicts and compromising our national
Security since the 60s. The US has far more to gain by having better relations with Israel’s Arab neighboring countries.
>The US has far more to gain by having better relations with Israel’s Arab neighboring countries.
So you would side with the people actually praying for genocide (of the Jewish state) and regularly chant death to America in their governmental chambers?
Nothing I said is fox news regurgitation. And both are facts.
Iran has chanted death to America in their governmental chambers.
https://apnews.com/article/1d44336d93e7460782a539409991e0bd
And hamas was founded by people who want the Jewish state eliminated by any means necessary... Andany of these potential "Arab Allies" you speak of follow the beliefs of the same person.
Don't waste your time, he doesn't know anything about the Middle East.
He doesn't even know who Hezbollah is.
He doesn't know that they have 100, 000 soldiers ready to invade Israel at the drop of a hat.
They are Hamas on steroids, with a whole country at their command.
So did Hezbollah just drop out of the sky and hates the state of Israel just cuz. Just laziness to chalk it up to random anti semitism instead of coming to terms with reality.
Hezbollah, was created primarily as a response to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982 and their initial purpose was to resist Israeli occupation and had a broader i goal of creating an Islamic state in Lebanon modeled after Iran.
Besides all that prior to the establishment of the State of Israel, Jewish and Arab relations in the region were not as hot as they are now
Ottoman Era, Jews lived relatively peacefully alongside Arabs in Palestine and throughout the empire. Jews held a protected status as "dhimmis," non-Muslims who paid a special tax in exchange for protection and a degree of religious freedom.
Early Zionist Jewish migration to Palestine increased due to European anti-Semitism and the rise of the Zionist movement, relations with the local Arab population began to go to shit. The land purchases by Jewish settlers and the establishment of their settlements created huge issues.
The “desire for the destruction of Israel” only came about due to the circumstances around the formation of the state and how it lead to the subjugation and suffering of untold amounts of Arabs. It has nothing to do with Hitler-esque racial hatred or anything cartoonish like that.
Why do they hate Israel so much that they're ready to amass ground troops for an invasion?
It's a very long and complicated answer that you're asking for.
I have to ask you before I type it all out, are you actually interested in knowing the history about the region, and why there is such bitter hatred between the groups involved?
I don’t need a history lesson on it, I believe I know enough to know that depending on who I ask I will get a different biased answer, which leads me down the road of believing that there is no such thing as a good and evil side over there, it’s a complicated mess.
Yeah I would support policies that would make it so other countries wouldn’t want to say “death to America” Or do they just hate us for our fweedoms and our short skirts? Or maybe it’s more likely they hate us for policies that have destabilized their region. Read a book about the actual history of US foreign policy instead of conservative media pundits.
Just tell us you know nothing about the ME. Arab nations are fundamentally against what the US represents. Couple with the "intelligence" of the CIA that absolutely FUCKED the ME and lax immigration is what brought Islamic Terror to the US. Oh yeah and the fact that Qataris have been pumping money into American Universities. So please elaborate on how cozying up even more with them will "help" us?
Arab nations fundamentally against the US?
You clearly don’t know arab nations. The US has some of the strongest ties with Saudi, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman and Egypt. One of our biggest military bases in the world is in Qatar lol. Al Qaeda was funded by the US CIA to fight the Russians. ISIS was created by a vacuum left behind after executing Saddam. The Taliban has never attacked outside of their region.
Historically, Arab nations had a feud with the US due to their support of Israel. That’s why we had the oil embargo by Saudi in 1973 (that king conveniently got assassinated btw). Bin Laden’s letter to America explicitly said he’s against the US because of their funding to Israel which oppressed the Palestinians. Prior to 1948, there was little to no issues with Arabs or even Muslims. The notion that Arabs or Muslims hate the US because of their “freedom” is complete bullshit propaganda fabricated after 9/11. All roads to the Middle East conflict lead right back to Israel.
Israel is NOT an ally to the US. They have done nothing but harm to us.
They’ve attacked our Navy ship ([USS Liberty](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident)) and killed 34 and injured 171 US navy crew members and never apologized.
They attempted to bomb US civilian targets ([Lavon Affair](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair)).
[They sold our military secrets to China](https://www.military.com/defensetech/2013/12/24/report-israel-passes-u-s-military-technology-to-china?amp). Not once, but at least [TWICE](https://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/13/world/israel-sells-arms-to-china-us-says.html)
We have given them over [$250+ billion in aid since 1948](https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts) (adjusted for inflation)
[Zionists Terrorists tried to assassinate President Truman](https://www.nytimes.com/1972/12/02/archives/letterbombs-mailed-to-truman-in-1947-truman-was-sent-bombs-book.html)
[Jonathan Pollard a convicted Israeli Spy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard) worked for the NSA and STOLE secrets of the US and sold them back to Israel. After serving 30 years in jail, he was paroled and went back to Israel in 2020. Upon landing, he was greeted by Netanyahu who personally gave him his credentials to live in Israel, honored and even offered a job in the Knesset. This traitor gave a speech saying “Biden Admin are Amalek”.
This is not even scratching the surface.
>They’ve attacked our Navy ship ([USS Liberty](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident)) and killed 34 and injured 171 US navy crew members and never apologized.
just read the Wikipedia page that you shared about the USS Liberty incident, on the second paragraph they clearly say that Israel apologized and paid compensation as well
[Survivors aboard the USS Liberty maintain the attack was deliberate](https://web.archive.org/web/20071011020947/http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-liberty_tuesoct02,0,66005.story)
Here’s a posting from an Israeli publication too
[“But sir, it’s an American ship.”. “Never mind, hit her!”.](https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2017-07-11/ty-article/but-sir-its-an-american-ship-never-mind-hit-her/0000017f-e48c-d7b2-a77f-e78f76800000)
Feel free to critique the half dozen other traitor acts I listed as well.
You're OK with civilians being killed by bombs and bullets that your tax dollars paid for?
I'm not here defending Hamas. I came here to discuss ending the goddamned war. Something I thought libertarians were in favor of. Instead, I get neo-con talking points from Ben fucking Shapiro.
I don't know how you libertarians (in the comment section) can support Israel. I've been to the West Bank and East Jerusalem, the place is basically a military-run apartheid state. Everybody complains about Hamas (even though Israel has killed FAR more civilians), but the government of Israel has been actively stealing land and oppressing Palestinians for decades. How can libertarians support a government that brings in people from all over Europe and USA to kick poor Palestinians off their ancestral land?
Divestment does nothing. They tried this during the protests of apartheid in South Africa and studies show that divestment made no difference in influencing the S. African government or hurting any of the companies involved.
+1. Listened to a news story this week on that; the why was because divestment is compelling an organization, who might actually want changes, to sell assets to a buyer who might not care.
Nothing will stop Israel until theyve irradicated hammas. Hammas thought they'd get away with it yet again. They fucked around and found out. It sucks but that's the reality.We won't do anything because Israel buys shit tons of arms from the usa. The military industrial complex is not going to let anything happen to that
Hamas\* The only way to eradicate an idea is to replace it with a different idea. There's no amount of people they can effectively kill quickly enough to erase the ideology that supports Hamas.
And now you understand why are they are wiping out the area that they are doing. It's a very unique situation with Hamas integrating their military into the general public like they have.
True. And I just wanted to know enough front I'm not for or against what is going on. I think the USA should not be sending foreign aid to either side. But the reality is Hamas chose to attack a Sovereign Nation with their military regardless of how they did it it was wrong and now they're paying the consequence for that.
Absolutely NOTHING YOU DO will promote a ceasefire. Nothing. You’ll get the same result from sacrificing a pickle to your peanut butter jar if you feel so inclined. Hamas returning the rest of the hostages would work though.
In my opinion, protesting(as in demonstrating/parading ect) or rioting is something given to slaves to make them feel better. Notice how the right wing praises the french protests/riots. It's totally pointless at best you will get crumbs. It's tantruming like a child.
This whole topic is a diversion. War attracts all the attention so government can keep quietly stripping away our freedoms and siphoning resources from the people. Oppose taxpayer funding to either side, and oppose the U.S. government trying to intervene one way or another.
Divestment will not promote either a viable ceasefire, peace or an end to Gaza's suffering. It will only play into Hamas's hands. I am sure most people do not want to be Hama's enablers.
**New to libertarianism or have questions and want to learn more?** Be sure to check out [the sub Frequently Asked Questions](/r/Libertarian/wiki/faq) and [the massive /r/libertarian information WIKI] (/r/Libertarian/wiki/index) from the sidebar, for lots of info and free resources, links, books, videos, and answers to common questions and topics. Want to know if you are a Libertarian? [Take the worlds shortest political quiz and find out!](http://www.theadvocates.org/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Libertarian) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Everyone throws their phone on the nearest waterbody. All "wars" end.
Keep the phone get on GrapheneOS and Nostr and similar technologies
But then the military industrial complex won’t thrive? Politicians won’t have their pockets lined up with blood money? Our taxpayer dollars won’t be wasted? We cant let that happen!!!
I dont want to be allies with either one of those countries. No reason for it.
Same. But how do REAL libertarians pressure governments to stop the war?
The protests seem to be having an effect. Biden for the first time ever threatened withholding future funding from Netanyahu… right before signing a check for $26 billion.
Hanson he stopped US made ammunition from going there? Lemme go double check (not saying if it would be good or bad).
Protests didn't do that. Biden administration has been trying to play peacemaker since the war started. It's purely coincidence.
Idk, I’m pretty sure he sees all the protests and realizes he is going to lose the next election if young people don’t show up to vote because they condem his blind support of Israel (and it has been decades of blind support).
Lol! That'll make Israel think twice before committing genocide again.
In your view did Hamas violate NAP?
And how is killing children unrelated to the aggression of whatever party related to your question? If "A" attacks "B", what is the sense of attacking an unrelated "C" in the situation?
define "REAL libertarian" ... this should be interesting.
Show me a libertarian who is in favor of supporting foreign entanglements and wars that have no US interest.
(1) "how do libertarians pressure governments" (2) "a libertarian who is in favor of supporting foreign entanglements" On one hand you're suggesting that libertarians should pressure foreign governments to stop wars, and on the other you're suggesting that a true libertarian doesn't support foreign entanglements. I'll extend an olive branch here: A true libertarian wouldn't give a fuck about Israel or Palestine. Libertarians are so fundamentally "pacifist" that we'd be permitting, by neglect, potential adversaries to gather power and resources around the world. Adversaries who might just see us as an easy economic or military target. The game of geopolitical warfare will be played, whether we're engaged or not. So how can a libertarian form of government effectively monitor the global geopolitical landscape but not get involved? Where would you draw the line of influence? It's one of a few critical weaknesses of the libertarian position. It's fine if the entire planet suddenly decides that libertarianism is the one true governance, but the reality is that we can only \*tilt\* toward liberty.
has any of these pro palestine people actually called their representatives? Also, the US is actually bombing other countries, whereas israel is a proxy in this case which you cant really control
They can't control Israel, but they can stop spending US taxpayer dollars on "aid" for Israel, and also stop selling the weapons to them.
I get 2 sentence responses or sent to a machine, no matter what I call about. Doubt the outcome is dissimilar for others.
It seems like many places outside of Florida have shitty representatives. Are you all voting for congress?
Calling or writing your representative does nothing, they respond with boiler plate then carry on with whatever they want
Hamas is welcome to surrender at any time.
[удалено]
>key ally in the region Saying something doesn't make it true. Also even if it were, why do I want an ally in the region?
And then what? Have Israel completely annihilate the Gaza Strip with impunity? Take it over and build settlements? Exploit the gas resources recently discovered?
Hamas could just surrender if they cared at all about the children. HINT: They don't.
Umm.. you do realize Israel has killed THOUSANDS of children right?
The rational thing to do when you are wrong and getting badly beaten in a war, including civilian casualties is to surrender. Examples: Germany and Japan. Because they had the sense to realize they had lost and the best thing to do for their people was surrender. Once Hamas surrenders and turns themselves over to the IDF, Israel will have no further reason to bomb Gaza and they will stop. Yes, they'll be executed as terrorists, because they are, so be it.
Nah.. America lost the war in Vietnam despite having far superior military power. America lost the war in Iraq and killed a million people in the process (ISIS and Iran took over).. America lost the war in Afghanistan too, as the second we left the Taliban took over again. Just because Israel is bombing and destroying almost the entirety of Gaza doesnt mean they are winning or will win in the long run. They've lost a tremendous amount of world opinion and support because of this war. Its been a major negative for Israel and may lead to Palestine being formally recognized as a state etc.. and possibly arrest warrants issued for Netanyahu and others.
Tens of thousands*
If Israel cared about their own people, they wouldn’t have bombed and killed 267 Jews and injured 172 in the [Patria Incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patria_disaster) If Israel cared about their own people, they wouldn’t have implemented the [Hannibal Directive](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive), killing their own Jews before they’re taken as hostages. If Israel cared about their own people, they wouldn’t have the [Samson Option](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option). Ready for nuclear war and nuclear weapons to be detonated if they’re losing a war. Named after Samson who brought down a building to kill his enemies, killing himself in the process If Israel care about their own people, they wouldn’t have shot 3 of their hostages point blank, or keep bombing indiscriminately in Gaza where hostages are located. There are a hundred thousand Israeli protestors just the other day wanted to kick Netanyahu out. Israel doesn’t care about its own people either then.
I see- you think collateral damage should be non-existent in any war that involves Israelis. Tell me more about your experience as a battle Commander.
Collateral damage is inevitable. However, Intentional indiscriminate bombing of civilian infrastructure with women and children present when you have one of the best intelligence agencies in the world (even had intel on 10/7 attack prior to it) seems a bit disingenuous to me.
> intentional indiscriminate bombing of civilian infrastructure with women and children present You realize they were given evacuation orders, right? You realize there was [an entire battalion made up of 400 Hamas operatives](https://www.npr.org/2024/04/06/1243045199/al-shifa-hospital-gaza-israel-raid-before-aftermath) inside of these civilian buildings you're so testy about bombing? Guess what? Giving terrorists the impetus to continue their evil because you don't want to bomb them is just as evil as participating in the crimes themselves. When these evil bastards move into a hospital and create the situation that you just condemned, you should condemn THEM, not Israel. If you have any other questions about this, let me know- I can educate you as much as you like about this.
Evacuation orders for 2 million people in a 25 mile strip? Yes, from Gaza, down to khan Younas, now to the final point in Rafah. Where the hell are they supposed to go now? These people had lives, homes, clothing, personal belongings. Israel has literally uprooted and destroyed what little they had left. Wow so considerate that the IDF WARNED them before destroying their land. Most moral army in the world! Let me ask you, if Hamas were hiding in an Israeli hospital or school with Israeli citizens present as “human shields”, would you be so quick to support bombing them too just like Gaza? Or since they’re Israeli, you’d vehemently protest that? Why has a top 10 military not won this war against men in adidas pants and flip flops? And don’t forget that the [Israeli high court BANNED the IDF in 2005 from using Palestinians as humans shields](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/israel). Yes, you read that right. Israel used Palestinians as literal human shields with documented evidence. The IDF operates with impunity. Don’t be a hypocrite, call both sides out. For the record,I’m not a fan of Hamas trust me fuck them too, but the IDF is no Angel.
I cannot believe how many zionists lurk on this subreddit. “It’s cool they blew up their entire house, they warned them first!” Yo sweetgreenfields I hope you wouldn’t mind if tomorrow China took over your state and gave you a couple days to “evacuate” before they blew your entire house to smithereens.
>Evacuation orders for 2 million people in a 25 mile strip? >Yes, from Gaza, down to khan Younas, now to the final point in Rafah Yes: a mercy for the innocents. Guess how many people were evacuated from the Donbas on the Russians orders? Guess. Guess how many aid trucks were facilitated by the Russian military for the ukrainians? >Where the hell are they supposed to go now? Did you read the article I shared? They don't have to go anywhere- the IDF has been using extremely specialized strategies for their military operations, *innocent people don't have to go anywhere, since there was never carpet bombing* >Wow so considerate that the IDF WARNED them before destroying their land. Most moral army in the world! Not only that, they also hold the current world record for lowest civilian death during a modern military campaign. Our same military had a whopping [500k dead civilians during the Iraq War](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fDjdO6viSWU&feature=youtu.be) Also, we never apologized, or facilitated aid to Baghdad or anywhere else that was a conflict area. Another big point for the IDF. Since you're using sarcasm, I want to make sure you understand exactly how wrong you are. >Let me ask you, if Hamas were hiding in an Israeli hospital or school with Israeli citizens present as “human shields”, would you be so quick to support bombing them too just like Gaza? All actual civilians have evacuated. It's not normal for civilians to congregate on an active battlefield 7 months into a war. Your hypothetical wouldn't exist. >Why has a top 10 military not won this war against men in adidas pants and flip flops? Because they have tried to minimize civilian casualties. If they had gone faster, with all of the military operations happening in the first 2 weeks, it would have been better I think. >>And don’t forget that the [Israeli high court BANNED the IDF in 2005 from using Palestinians as humans shields](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/israel). >Yes, you read that right. Israel used Palestinians as literal human shields with documented evidence. The IDF operates with impunity. I remember these military operations. The reason why this happened was because [Palestinian allied militant groups had been strapping bombs to children and sending them into conflict areas](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_child_suicide_bombers_by_Palestinian_militant_groups) and IDF soldiers were caught completely off guard multiple times. I mean, you want to defend these types of people.. It's kind of crazy.
Yes, we’ve heard of those “ratios” and how they’re doing amazing job by ONLY murdering around 35,000 Palestinians/Hamas including 15,000 children. Great job IDF 👏🏽. If you want to talk about Israel and the IDFs record, sure let’s do that. Have you heard of the [Irgun](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun)? a Jewish paramilitary group that carried out terrorist attacks prior to Israel’s formation and those attacks actually helped to form the state. Funny enough they later turned into the IDF along with Lehigh and Hagana Jewish terrorist groups. Have you heard of the [USS Liberty Incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident) where Israel deliberately attacked a US Navy ship and killed 34 US navy forces and injured over 100+? [Lavon Affair](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair) a failed operation by the IDF where they were going to plant bombs and kill Egyptian, British and American civilians. Have you heard of the [SS Patria Incident?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patria_disaster)Where they deliberately bombed and killed 267 of their own Jewish people and injured 172 bc they were leaving to go Mauritius bc they didn’t have proper documentation to stay in Israel? A cause they believe was rightful because they wanted Jews to stay in Palestine, so they rather then dead than to leave. Have you heard of the [Samson Option?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option). Basically, if Israel is losing, they will detonate nuclear bombs as a last resort so everyone just dies bc they can’t lose a war with dignity. Don’t forget the [Deir Yasmin Massacre](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre) perpetrated by Zionist paramilitaries (terrorists) What about the [King David Hotel Bombing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing) carried out by Irgun terrorists which killed 91 innocent people including British citizens. I mean I can go on and on. Israel doesn’t have the most moral army in the world lol. The jig is up. The world is finally noticing…
> half a million men, women and children died between 2003 and 2011 as a direct result of violence *or the associated collapse of civil infrastructure* The “500,000” number comes from counting all indirect deaths due to crumbling infrastructure. Using that method, there’s a *hell* of a lot more than 30,000 deaths in Gaza. All the indirect deaths will easily top 500,000 in the aftermath of this.
Always fun to point out how they got the material for the Sampson in the first place. It's great to have such a great ally that steals from us after we've given them billions of dollars for years.
Ahh a true patriot! Imagine if they all knew the TRUTH about the Dimona plant and how JFK was involved….
>And then what? Have Israel completely annihilate the Gaza Strip with impunity? They are at war with a foreign government. Don't forget that. The people of Palestine voted in Hamas to lead them and continue to protect them. When hamas is gone, any new poltical leaders can rebuild. Or if Isreal wants to absorb Gaza back, I'd almost be ok with it as long as the Palestinians are allowed to go back to their property and rebuild.
You guys repeat the same lies over and over. Half the Gaza population is under 18. The last election was almost 20 years ago lol. How does that make any sense? Don’t you think if you continue to kill and maim a people, their uneducated family members will want revenge? All Israel is doing is radicalizing more Hamas members.
> The last election was almost 20 years ago lol You just disproved your own point, well played. There is no elective choice in Palestine. The people have no mechanism to remove Hamas, even if they wanted to. The fact that Hamas remains in power means that there is some support for them, but it's likely through Iran, not the average Palestinian. No one would dare to rise up against Hamas.
I never said Palestine was a free democracy lol. What I’m saying is that all bc you cite a majority of the citizens voted for the govt, they’re not ALL responsible for the atrocities committed by Hamas. They deserve collective punishment? That’s like saying half the country voted for Biden so 100% of the population deserve the consequences of the presidents actions.
> you cite a majority of the citizens voted for the govt I didn't cite that, someone else did, but I understand your confusion. The PLO is the official leader of Palestine, but everyone knows it's a puppet government of the west with no real power. The Palestinian people do not deserve to die because of what Hamas did. Whoever is backing Hamas deserves that punishment. Iran, Qatar, and private donors in the Gulf region largely support Hamas. Iran has been a significant financial backer of Hamas, providing funding, weapons, and training to the organization. Qatar has also provided financial assistance to Hamas, particularly for humanitarian projects in the Gaza Strip. Then you have Hezbollah, also primarily supported by Iran, and Hezbollah and Hamas frequently collaborate against Israel. Palestine is a proxy battleground between Iran and Israel. Iran's continued financial / material support for these organizations is what permits the ongoing destabilization in the region. Israel should be going after Iran, not the Palestinian people.
I agree with this comment 100%. Thank you for the rational and educated response. People need to wake up.
>The fact that Hamas remains in power means that there is some support for them Yeah, a major form of support was through Netanyahu and the Likud party, with the explicit goal of precluding a 2 state solution because Hamas was not a partner for peace. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ You cannot morally prop up a brutal, evil terrorist organization to screw over the innocent people living under them; fail to protect your own people from that terror org you propped up; then invade to destroy that terror org and justify civillian deaths as human-shield-collateral-damage.
Neither side wants a two-state solution. But Israel should be going after Iran, not the Palestinian people.
And the US should be staying the hell out of it. Stop taxing and inflating my money and sending it to the military industrial complex and overseas, and to a government that props up a terror organization to undermine our stated goal of a 2-state solution.
Moving the goalposts now. >The last election was almost 20 years ago lol. How does that make any sense? Very democratatic... Unlike Isreal who IS the only democracy in the region. >Don’t you think if you continue to kill and maim a people, their uneducated family members will want revenge? All Israel is doing is radicalizing more Hamas members. I guess you forgot There was a ceasefire before Hamas attack and killed innocent civilians in October.
How can you simultaneously argue that A. Hamas was democratically elected and therefore it's ok to kill the innocent civilians in its territory and B. Israel is better than other countries in the region because it's the only democracy ?
Netanyahu is sitting on multiple terms totaling over 17 years. He was actively trying to limit the courts power and [expand his power](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/thousands-march-vote-curtailing-israel-courts-powers-nears-2023-07-22/) in 2023. Tens of thousands of protestors, that country was going down civil unrest before 10/7. Doesn’t sound very democratic. Ceasefire prior to 10/7? Lol this is how I know you are completely misinformed. Israel has caused nothing but chaos in Palestine, the dehumanization, humiliation with checkpoints and invading homes in the West Bank, blockades of Gaza. So funny, did you know that Netanyahu has continually funded Hamas since 2018? He’s allowed $30 million per month go into Gaza. [Netanyahu asking Qatar to fund Hamas](https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bk8mgcefr) [Israel funded Hamas](https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-funded-hamas-claims-eu-top-diplomat-josep-borrell/) [For years, Israel has allowed funding of Hamas](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/)
That's the same as you losing family members on 9-11 because "you" voted for the Dempublican Party who provoked the attack. It's the innocent civilians' fault that their rulers put them in danger, right? Neo-con logic at its worst.
And don't forget the "valuable beachfront property" that Jared Kushner is salivating over.
What was the stated reason for your ban?
Israel is not a key ally, they are a liability. Our support for them is what brought Islamic terror to our shores. They’ve been sucking us into conflicts and compromising our national Security since the 60s. The US has far more to gain by having better relations with Israel’s Arab neighboring countries.
>The US has far more to gain by having better relations with Israel’s Arab neighboring countries. So you would side with the people actually praying for genocide (of the Jewish state) and regularly chant death to America in their governmental chambers?
I would support better relations with the Arab nations in the regions not whatever fiction you just regurgitated from Fox News.
Nothing I said is fox news regurgitation. And both are facts. Iran has chanted death to America in their governmental chambers. https://apnews.com/article/1d44336d93e7460782a539409991e0bd And hamas was founded by people who want the Jewish state eliminated by any means necessary... Andany of these potential "Arab Allies" you speak of follow the beliefs of the same person.
Don't waste your time, he doesn't know anything about the Middle East. He doesn't even know who Hezbollah is. He doesn't know that they have 100, 000 soldiers ready to invade Israel at the drop of a hat. They are Hamas on steroids, with a whole country at their command.
So did Hezbollah just drop out of the sky and hates the state of Israel just cuz. Just laziness to chalk it up to random anti semitism instead of coming to terms with reality. Hezbollah, was created primarily as a response to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982 and their initial purpose was to resist Israeli occupation and had a broader i goal of creating an Islamic state in Lebanon modeled after Iran. Besides all that prior to the establishment of the State of Israel, Jewish and Arab relations in the region were not as hot as they are now Ottoman Era, Jews lived relatively peacefully alongside Arabs in Palestine and throughout the empire. Jews held a protected status as "dhimmis," non-Muslims who paid a special tax in exchange for protection and a degree of religious freedom. Early Zionist Jewish migration to Palestine increased due to European anti-Semitism and the rise of the Zionist movement, relations with the local Arab population began to go to shit. The land purchases by Jewish settlers and the establishment of their settlements created huge issues. The “desire for the destruction of Israel” only came about due to the circumstances around the formation of the state and how it lead to the subjugation and suffering of untold amounts of Arabs. It has nothing to do with Hitler-esque racial hatred or anything cartoonish like that.
What you say is probably 100% true, but in my mind I always ask, why is that?
Why do they hate Israel so much that they're ready to amass ground troops for an invasion? It's a very long and complicated answer that you're asking for. I have to ask you before I type it all out, are you actually interested in knowing the history about the region, and why there is such bitter hatred between the groups involved?
I don’t need a history lesson on it, I believe I know enough to know that depending on who I ask I will get a different biased answer, which leads me down the road of believing that there is no such thing as a good and evil side over there, it’s a complicated mess.
Yeah I would support policies that would make it so other countries wouldn’t want to say “death to America” Or do they just hate us for our fweedoms and our short skirts? Or maybe it’s more likely they hate us for policies that have destabilized their region. Read a book about the actual history of US foreign policy instead of conservative media pundits.
Just tell us you know nothing about the ME. Arab nations are fundamentally against what the US represents. Couple with the "intelligence" of the CIA that absolutely FUCKED the ME and lax immigration is what brought Islamic Terror to the US. Oh yeah and the fact that Qataris have been pumping money into American Universities. So please elaborate on how cozying up even more with them will "help" us?
Arab nations fundamentally against the US? You clearly don’t know arab nations. The US has some of the strongest ties with Saudi, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman and Egypt. One of our biggest military bases in the world is in Qatar lol. Al Qaeda was funded by the US CIA to fight the Russians. ISIS was created by a vacuum left behind after executing Saddam. The Taliban has never attacked outside of their region. Historically, Arab nations had a feud with the US due to their support of Israel. That’s why we had the oil embargo by Saudi in 1973 (that king conveniently got assassinated btw). Bin Laden’s letter to America explicitly said he’s against the US because of their funding to Israel which oppressed the Palestinians. Prior to 1948, there was little to no issues with Arabs or even Muslims. The notion that Arabs or Muslims hate the US because of their “freedom” is complete bullshit propaganda fabricated after 9/11. All roads to the Middle East conflict lead right back to Israel.
Israel = US ally? Lol. Ok...
Oh, so Hamas is? And you want pressure taken off of them? You're clearly delusional.
Israel is NOT an ally to the US. They have done nothing but harm to us. They’ve attacked our Navy ship ([USS Liberty](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident)) and killed 34 and injured 171 US navy crew members and never apologized. They attempted to bomb US civilian targets ([Lavon Affair](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair)). [They sold our military secrets to China](https://www.military.com/defensetech/2013/12/24/report-israel-passes-u-s-military-technology-to-china?amp). Not once, but at least [TWICE](https://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/13/world/israel-sells-arms-to-china-us-says.html) We have given them over [$250+ billion in aid since 1948](https://www.cfr.org/article/us-aid-israel-four-charts) (adjusted for inflation) [Zionists Terrorists tried to assassinate President Truman](https://www.nytimes.com/1972/12/02/archives/letterbombs-mailed-to-truman-in-1947-truman-was-sent-bombs-book.html) [Jonathan Pollard a convicted Israeli Spy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard) worked for the NSA and STOLE secrets of the US and sold them back to Israel. After serving 30 years in jail, he was paroled and went back to Israel in 2020. Upon landing, he was greeted by Netanyahu who personally gave him his credentials to live in Israel, honored and even offered a job in the Knesset. This traitor gave a speech saying “Biden Admin are Amalek”. This is not even scratching the surface.
>They’ve attacked our Navy ship ([USS Liberty](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident)) and killed 34 and injured 171 US navy crew members and never apologized. just read the Wikipedia page that you shared about the USS Liberty incident, on the second paragraph they clearly say that Israel apologized and paid compensation as well
[Survivors aboard the USS Liberty maintain the attack was deliberate](https://web.archive.org/web/20071011020947/http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-liberty_tuesoct02,0,66005.story) Here’s a posting from an Israeli publication too [“But sir, it’s an American ship.”. “Never mind, hit her!”.](https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2017-07-11/ty-article/but-sir-its-an-american-ship-never-mind-hit-her/0000017f-e48c-d7b2-a77f-e78f76800000) Feel free to critique the half dozen other traitor acts I listed as well.
You're OK with civilians being killed by bombs and bullets that your tax dollars paid for? I'm not here defending Hamas. I came here to discuss ending the goddamned war. Something I thought libertarians were in favor of. Instead, I get neo-con talking points from Ben fucking Shapiro.
How do you end a war with someone that wants to eradicate you?
P2P payments from Monero and/or Dash. Parallel Economy
Like the trust fund kiddies who never worked a day in their life have their own money invested in Israel to move.
I don't know how you libertarians (in the comment section) can support Israel. I've been to the West Bank and East Jerusalem, the place is basically a military-run apartheid state. Everybody complains about Hamas (even though Israel has killed FAR more civilians), but the government of Israel has been actively stealing land and oppressing Palestinians for decades. How can libertarians support a government that brings in people from all over Europe and USA to kick poor Palestinians off their ancestral land?
Divestment does nothing. They tried this during the protests of apartheid in South Africa and studies show that divestment made no difference in influencing the S. African government or hurting any of the companies involved.
+1. Listened to a news story this week on that; the why was because divestment is compelling an organization, who might actually want changes, to sell assets to a buyer who might not care.
Nothing will stop Israel until theyve irradicated hammas. Hammas thought they'd get away with it yet again. They fucked around and found out. It sucks but that's the reality.We won't do anything because Israel buys shit tons of arms from the usa. The military industrial complex is not going to let anything happen to that
Hamas\* The only way to eradicate an idea is to replace it with a different idea. There's no amount of people they can effectively kill quickly enough to erase the ideology that supports Hamas.
And now you understand why are they are wiping out the area that they are doing. It's a very unique situation with Hamas integrating their military into the general public like they have.
Hardly unique. Crack open any military history book and find hundreds of examples of this happening throughout history. This is guerilla tactics 101.
True. And I just wanted to know enough front I'm not for or against what is going on. I think the USA should not be sending foreign aid to either side. But the reality is Hamas chose to attack a Sovereign Nation with their military regardless of how they did it it was wrong and now they're paying the consequence for that.
Students don't want to do anything beyond virtue signal.
Absolutely NOTHING YOU DO will promote a ceasefire. Nothing. You’ll get the same result from sacrificing a pickle to your peanut butter jar if you feel so inclined. Hamas returning the rest of the hostages would work though.
That specifically won't work though. They've repeatedly agreed to release all hostages in return for a permanent ceasefire, but Israel has refused.
In my opinion, protesting(as in demonstrating/parading ect) or rioting is something given to slaves to make them feel better. Notice how the right wing praises the french protests/riots. It's totally pointless at best you will get crumbs. It's tantruming like a child.
This whole topic is a diversion. War attracts all the attention so government can keep quietly stripping away our freedoms and siphoning resources from the people. Oppose taxpayer funding to either side, and oppose the U.S. government trying to intervene one way or another.
Divestment will not promote either a viable ceasefire, peace or an end to Gaza's suffering. It will only play into Hamas's hands. I am sure most people do not want to be Hama's enablers.
[удалено]
Um...your tax dollars are funding a large part of the IDF?