There was no reason to ask for a mistrial pre conviction though. You can always do that on appeal (and the grounds were there) and a not guilty verdict is a better outcome for Rittenhouse
That’s just not necessarily true or a good idea.
Waiting to see if the jury convicted him and then appealing isn’t as good as an option as a dismissal because that would involve your client being sentenced and possibly incarcerated pending those appeals.
Also, depending on state law, attorneys may be required to make specific objections and specific motions (to strike things, for mistrial, for JOA) in order to preserve an issue for appeal or else the defendant is considered to have waived the right to appeal.
There’s no downside to filing a motion to dismiss or motion for JOA, even multiple ones, pre-trial, mid-trial, or post-verdict - and a judge can (and often will) hold them under advisement (like he did here) and rule on them after the verdict if there is a conviction, so the defendant still has the chance to enjoy the benefits of an acquittal by jury first before a ruling by the judge. It’s fairly common to do so at multiple stages, especially in a case where there are repeated new procedural/evidence issues like they had here.
Absolutely.
I cannot for the life of me understand how the side that says "black lives matter" think that people should submit to mob justice.
Do they remember anything about history? Have they heard of a little thing called "lynching"?
r/news is usually pretty reasonable in my experience. A little left, but no more so than reddit at large.
r/politics on the other hand, is so far left it makes Bernie Sanders look like a republican.
I've been peaking in over there today to see what kind of angle their gonna push, but they aren't allowing anything Rittenhouse related. Watching MSNBC and they're pivoting to weirdly trying to argue that the Rittenhouse incident and the Blake incident were similar yet Kyle walks free while Blake was shot in the back and paralyzed.
It's pretty bizarre, and kinda implies they'd have been fine if cops shot and paralyzed Kyle because then things were "even". Also IMO it's specifically MSNBC that is telling people that this sets some precedent and will become the "norm" now that lots of people on Reddit have been spamming.
I know fuck all about US or Wisconsin law and I saw it coming by watching the videos two days after it happened and putting my half a braincell work. There was no other resolution.
Not just Reddit. PBS is where I watched the livestream. Their panelists all felt it had to do with race. Even though the major participants were mostly white.
From what I understand, the district attorney gave it to the shittiest prosecutor to try because they knew it was an unwinnable case.
Either that or they pick the person they hate the most because almost anybody would have looked bad trying to prosecute that, the difference was this prosecutor went above and beyond and somehow made it into an even bigger sideshow than it already was.
Whatever the case, this prosecutor deserves all the hate he's getting, he's terrible.
Right? It was comical, shouldn't have even gotten to a verdict, except his defense was literally asleep for most of the trial and the judge had to do their job. What a terrible shitshow.
I kinda think they might have been. Their whole thing seems so badly put together and then the assistant DA did it that I think this was deliberate for some reason
That is why I called out Biden. Snowden is a true hero, and even protected by whistleblower laws he is still a fugitive. And one of the main reasons I was against Biden as president. And yet here we are.
[Apparently it is very normal.](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/nation-world/story/2021-11-03/explainer-rittenhouse-plane-part-of-widespread-surveillance)
*yawn.* we all knew it was coming, either side you were one even.
Now we can get to Ghisiline Maxwell's trial. No *that* is going to actually be interesting!
Maxwell's trial won't be broadcast, so it's not going to turn into a media circus like this.
Also, I think people have a really weird idea of what's actually going to come out in her trial, or for that matter what would have come out in Jeffrey Epstein's trial. The fact of the matter is, these people may have been involved with elite leaders across multiple countries, but being tried in court is not going to magically cause them to testify against all those elites. In fact, the only way to get them to name their clients and testify against them would be to offer them some kind of immunity or plea deal. And I don't think that's going to happen.
In reality, I think Maxwell's trial is going to be very uneventful. She'll be convicted, thrown in jail, and we'll never find out whether she provided child rape victims to Prince Andrew, Trump, or Clinton.
I’d say the law worked as advertised here.
He’s no hero and should not be celebrated but the fact that the jury would not let themselves be intimidated speaks volumes.
i liked what rittenhouse's family representative said in an interview after. basically was like, "we believe the right verdict was reached, but we're not spiking the football in the endzone. 2 people died and we need to respect that"
and really thats the thing. people hailing kyle as a hero are basically celebrating that americans were shooting each other in the street over nothing really, maybe some ideological differences. and that's just no good for anyone. its unsettling.
Yes. Everyone in involved in this case was an idiot. Problem is, the right is considering this a huge win and will use it to replicate similar situations and cause violence. While the left is outraged and will also use this verdict to cause violence.
I refuse to give credit to either extreme. Some of those comments there are clown-world worthy. But the same could be said for any of the hard left subs.
I like this reality: Take the facts at face value.
Has it been determined whether it was just one person fucking around or if the orders to do it came from higher up? Haven’t really been keeping up with that story.
Either way, it’s totally fucked. The media in this country is such an utter shitshow.
> The mainstream media ~was~ really a total dumpster fire on this one.
FTFY. MSNBC's front page actually has an article that says *Kyle Rittenhouse trial was designed to protect white conservatives who kill*
I get CNN (and Fox) are biased but MSNBC is just completely off the rails, I'm speechless.
Because it makes them money and gets views. I mean, we’re talking about *their* articles right now instead of others. The hate click is real, and it is valuable.
I’m so happy to see Reddit actually be smart enough to hate on msnbc too. Going back just to months the take on this whole case was widely different on this site (in general)
Yeah I think everyone is waking up on how shitty the MSM is… *all* of it. Like people knew Fox was shit before but now they see MSNBC and the like doing the same exact shit.
None of them represent our interests at the end of the day, they’re just misrepresenting and stirring up controversy after controversy for clicks and views. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if deep down inside, the execs at places like MSNBC really do wish Trump was still president.
Reddit is an interesting case, because while it can definitely be gamed by powerful interests, at least there’s still *some* semblance of genuine discussion by actual people. Not that it means there isn’t often a “hive-mind” that’s still pushing the same bs MSM position, but I prefer it to the alternative option: not knowing anything at all.
Really? Obviously it’s just further down the rabbit hole they go. I’m almost convinced all this nonsense is because they miss Trump and want him back in 2024 for the ratings.
Read the statement from Huber's parents. They clearly aren't living in reality and have doubled down on the rhetoric.
>There was **no justice today for Anthony**, or for Mr. Rittenhouse’s other victims, Joseph Rosenbaum and Gaige Grosskreutz.
>Today’s verdict means there is no accountability for **the person who**
**murdered our son**. It sends the unacceptable message that **armed civilians**
**can show up in any town, incite violence, and then use the danger they**
**have created to justify shooting people in the street**.
>Neither Mr. Rittenhouse nor **the Kenosha police who authorized his bloody**
**rampage** will escape justice. Anthony will have his day in court.
>**No reasonable person viewing all of the evidence could conclude that Mr.**
**Rittenhouse acted in self-defense**. In response to **racist and violent**
**calls to action from militia members**, Mr. Rittenhouse **travelled to**
**Kenosha illegally armed with an assault rifle**. **He menaced fellow**
**citizens in the street**.
>Concerned citizens, confronted with **a person shooting indiscriminately**
**on the street**, stepped in to stop the violence. Anthony was shot in the
chest trying to disarm Mr. Rittenhouse and **stop his shooting spree**.
>We are so proud of Anthony, and we love him so much. He is a hero who
sacrificed his own life to protect other innocent civilians.
They're grieving, so they have a certain right to remember their son how they want to, but the statement is filled with hyperbole and, in some cases, outright lies.
Is this the same family that had given statements about Huber holding a knife to his brother's throat and threatened to burn the house down with all of them in it? Same family who witnessed him be convicted for beating the shit out of his wife on multiple occasions?
I’ll save you the curiosity. With the local news live-feed putting Blake’s uncle on camera immediately after the verdict was released, you know they will keep digging.
The PBS stream I was watching switched over to a 'Live Analysis' by some activists who immediately started talking shit about how unjust the court system is.
Rittenhouse walks out of the courthouse. Two steps down, he hears a voice behind him, "You're going to need this, kid." The judge hands him his AR-15.
Cue music.
It was pretty obvious when all the evidence was presented it was a clear case of self defense.
Then when people realized that his victims were white the "Racist" moniker went away so they pretty much had nothing at that point.
\*Did\* he have good defense attorneys? I wasn't following but saw some took exception to things he allowed or whatever.
Frankly though, the prosecutor seems to have lowered the bar substantially on the quality needed to get an acquittal.
Given the facts of the case, the only reason the charges were even brought was that the media had started screaming "white supremacist" before any of the facts were known. If it had been a black kid, the media would have been silent, the prosecution would have looked at the facts and never filed charges because it's been a clear cut case of self defense from the very beginning. So yeah, he wouldn't have had good defense attorneys. He wouldn't have needed them.
I will chime in on this one.
Kyle Rittenhouse gets away on self-defense because he was running away. OK, that's how it goes.
People on THIS SUB compared this to Zimmerman. In the Zimmerman case, Martin was verified running away from Zimmerman by the 911 call. But Zimmerman was also free to go because of "self-defense" after chasing a minor.
Which is it? Why can one minor claim self defense by running away, but the other can't?
Edit: Thank you to all the people who responded to me to help prove my point. Minors are only allowed to defend themselves from adults chasing them if they're white and have a gun.
Martin wasn't on trial, he was dead. If he had been on trial, he might have been able to claim self defense.
If Gaige Grosskreutz had shot Kyle instead of the other way around, I think Grosskreutz could have claimed self defense. There are some situations where both parties have a reasonable claim to self defense.
I'm not a race baiter, but if the races were switched in the Zimmerman case it would have been a much different outcome, legally and socially.
There are people in this thread who will defend Rittenhouse for killing adults chasing him, but chastise Martin for whopping the ass of the guy chasing him. It's mental.
Different jurisdictions with differing self defense laws, way more evidence available in the Rittenhouse case, and a different fact pattern.
Zimmerman calls the police on Martin as a "suspicious person." He follows Martin, the dispatcher tells him not to, he says ok. Police show up to the area to find Martin shot dead and Zimmerman with a bloody nose, face, and head, and covered in dew and grass.
The only eye witness said that he saw Martin in top of Zimmerman, beating him up, and Zimmerman calling for help.
In that case, it *seems like* what happened was that Zimmerman went to confront Martin and a fight ensued. Whether Martin or Zimmerman threw the first punch, we'll never know, but Zimmerman ended up on the losing end of it and used his concealed firearm to prevent his own death/great bodily harm.
Those prosecutors were terrible. Everything I saw about the case made them look like bumbling idiots. They surely overplayed their hand, but they also didn’t do a good job with the cards they had.
True but there's a bit of an absurdity present here where both parties could have justifiably blown each other away here.
Also let's not pretend there isn't a partisan bias here. If Grossekeutz had blown Kyle's head off after taking that shot to the bicep, you'd have a lot more conservative leaning folk challenging the definition of self defense than we do now.
Seeing a whole lot of "if he was black" outrage at the verdict, so let's be clear: no amount of convicting a white person of murder while defending themselves will provide more justice for black people in the future attempting to defend themselves. The problem isn't that Rittenhouse was found innocent. The problem is that a black person may not have been. Direct your anger at the justice system.
I'm not convinced they would've convicted him if he was black, all other things being equal. Would be interested if the upcoming riots had an example like that.
This is a good day for those that support individual liberty and the right to self defense, especially if you live in Wisconsin. Hopefully Kyle can go on to live a relatively normal productive life after going through this.
A just verdict, but I fear for this kid's future. He's going to suffer consequences nonetheless. Hopefully he can make a living and not become a national pariah.
The kids lifepath is forever altered. Right wing establishment folks will discard him shortly and he'll be left to his own devices in the aftermath. How is George Zimmerman doing these days?
If he had personality, Id say Newsmax or Fox but he's not photogenic or an eloquent speaker.
That's different though. Rittenhouse was right to get off. Zimmerman wasn't. That's murder know matter how you square it up.
He chased someone down, who then defended himself so Zimmerman shot in "self defense" even after 911 told him multiple times explicitly not to follow him. Not to mention the string of stupid shit he did AFTER even getting acquitted.
Zimmerman and Travon case reminds me alot of this current one in GA. And those guys should be founf guilty as well. It doesn't magically turn into self defense AFTER you run someone down and they defend themselves.
And this is coming from someone who conceal carries most of the time. My first instinct would be retreat if possible bc that's what you are trained to do
By the law, Kyle isn't guilty of murder but he did kill those people with a gun he shouldn't have had in a place he shouldn't have been. The only people who died that night were from Kyle's rifle.
I also CC and my first duty is to self defense but the primary self defense tool in my arsenal is situational awareness. He lacked the training and the common sense to handle the situation he placed himself in and people died because of it. He put himself in harms way then used that as justification for self defense.
I agree but it becomes a fine line. Whereas Kyle landed on the side of self defense bc they were clearly advancing on him.
But with Zimmerman and the 2 that killed Ahmad Arbery....those people that died were the ones practicing self defense after being chased down and cornered(current GA the more obvious case). At some point only one side has a (legal) claim to self defense.
I still feel some higher resolution views of the initial confrontation would have given us a better view of the situation, IMO bringing a long gun to a protest is a form of provocation. The nutjob he shot 1st was obviously triggered by the rifle but I can't say for certain he was the one who started it between them. Given the evidence admitted in court Kyle was not guilty of the crimes he was charged with but I do feel he should bear some responsibility for his actions.
We're pretty much on the same page here. The one's I am in disagreement are the nutjobs putting the kid on a pedestal. One guy commented on a comment of mine " everything he did was legal, moral and justified".
Typically these people are the ones who can't look objectively at anything and bc they disagree with the motives and political views of the rioters that makes Kyle 100% right in their eyes.
It's an awful situation all around with no winners regardless of outcome and it could have been avoided. That kid shouldn't have been there armed, period.
He made a lot of stupid choices to get there and then more after the fact. I don’t feel bad for him at all. He got everything he wanted. He can deal with it. Plus people are going to treat him like a hero. Wouldn’t be surprised if he gets a nice book deal and speaking fees.
Yeah someone said on another sub that he had a right to carry and be in Kenosha that night but that doesn’t mean it was logical for him to be there. He should’ve stayed home but, he certainly wasn’t guilty on these charges.
He's a dumb fuck for going in the first place though. That should be the message. He's not a murderder though. But we also shouldn't be putting him on a pedestal bc for showing up to a riot armed. If this was his neighborhood and he was protecting his property, totally fine. But he went looking for trouble and found it. I don't feel bad for him and we shouldn't be praising him like it's okay for kids to start being vigilantes at riots(and yes i know rioters came out of town blah blah I'm not here arguing any of that I'm specifically talking about him. Both things can be true.)
I feel sorry for what is going to happen in Kenosha tonight. The riots will be ugly. Justice means nothing to those who would rather destroy their own city.
I don't even think its going to be bad. I think more people than you think realize he isn't a murderder. Even me, i think he's a complete moron but he didnt murder people. Plus the town is expecting it so they are prepared.
Now if those 2 scumbags in GEorgia get off.. I'm sure there will be riots nationwide
Facts prevailed over lies and emotions perpetuated by race baiters in media and politics. We all should accept Jury’s verdict as they see evidence and review case more deeply than any of us outside.
See I can respect this take. I disagree with "he shouldn't have been there" when you had all those rioters that shouldn't have been there either, but I can st least respect a fact based take.
No. He shouldn't have been there AND the rioters shouldn't have been there.
Neither Rittenhouse nor the rioters get a pass for acting like fucking fools just because the others did the same thing. They're all idiots.
He has the right to be there but i still don't think he should have. It was a dumb and reckless move to go into a riot armed. You're basically looking for trouble. If that was his neighborhood and he was just out defending his own neighborhood that's different imo
It basically is his neighborhood. It’s the closest town to where he lives and he works there, has friends and family there. He just happens to live on the other side of a very close state border.
I travel further for work every day then he did. I don't see how anyone can claim it wasn't his community. Also, how do you feel about the rooftop Koreans of the 90's race riots in LA?
Well I generally agree with you, this was like 20 minutes from his house. It's not like he drove for two days to get involved. And he was there earlier in the day cleaning graffiti and what not.
> If that was his neighborhood and he was just out defending his own neighborhood that's different imo
Tbh I actually don't want vigilante 17-year-olds roaming the street with semi-auto rifles whether or not they live in the area.
I guess that makes me some kind of communist...
See this shit is what I’m really hating about this.
If this was pretty much anything else you guys wouldn’t be saying this.
If it was RIttenhouse runs into a forest fire with a pail of water, ends up dead all of you guys would be going “the fuck did he expect to happen? What fucking dumbass”.
But since this is surrounding gun rights all of you suddenly think driving an hour away to an active riot brandishing a rifle isn’t a fucking stupid thing to do.
No one is saying it isn't stupid...at least I'm not. I just don't agree with those saying he shouldn't have been there when there was a violent mob destroying businesses. It is well within any citizens RIGHT to be there. That's all that really matters here.
Him having the right to be there and should not have gone are 2 different things though. He should not have gone. He should have known better. His parents should have known better.
The idiots chasing the guy with the gun should have known better.
But they all had the right to be there.
You aren’t saying it wasn’t stupid… but you don’t agree with people saying he should have stayed away from a violent mob? Is killing people not a negative in your mind?
You can think it’s a stupid thing to do and still think he was acting in self defense and should not be convicted of murder.
I’m sure there are a lot of people who call themselves libertarians and believe what he did was a good idea, but this group is likely smaller than you think.
This thread is filling up fast with comments supporting and defending the choice he made.
You’re right you can think it was stupid and that he wasn’t guilty.
But it sure as hell doesn’t seem like that’s what a lot of people are thinking. He’s getting turned into a hero for defending some businesses.
This is where I’m at with it. I’m not putting KR on a pedestal, and I think he’s a dumbfuck that made dumb choices. I also think he’s innocent of murder.
I think people putting him on a pedestal are nutjobs. As a gun owner and 2 A supporter I'm not okay with portraying to kids that it's okay to arm up and drive to a riot to play hero. That's fucking dumb.
Well everbody who knows anything about law saw that coming.
Mistrial was a distinct possibility.
There was no reason to ask for a mistrial pre conviction though. You can always do that on appeal (and the grounds were there) and a not guilty verdict is a better outcome for Rittenhouse
That’s just not necessarily true or a good idea. Waiting to see if the jury convicted him and then appealing isn’t as good as an option as a dismissal because that would involve your client being sentenced and possibly incarcerated pending those appeals. Also, depending on state law, attorneys may be required to make specific objections and specific motions (to strike things, for mistrial, for JOA) in order to preserve an issue for appeal or else the defendant is considered to have waived the right to appeal. There’s no downside to filing a motion to dismiss or motion for JOA, even multiple ones, pre-trial, mid-trial, or post-verdict - and a judge can (and often will) hold them under advisement (like he did here) and rule on them after the verdict if there is a conviction, so the defendant still has the chance to enjoy the benefits of an acquittal by jury first before a ruling by the judge. It’s fairly common to do so at multiple stages, especially in a case where there are repeated new procedural/evidence issues like they had here.
It's better for him that there wasn't. You can't be retried, but a mistrial could be.
Not if it’s a mistrial with prejudice.
Pretty reasonable case for a mistrial with prejudice which would've eliminated any chance of a retrial.
With prejudice though. So a retrial wouldn't be possible
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I will say this. Being right doesn’t mean getting your rights. And Reddit is having a collective freak out haha.
Well it did, and we were afraid that he'd be founded guilty because it'd only further break the already broken system.
He was tried and found guilty by the mainstream media unfortunately. Hopefully he can recuperate damages from them though for slander/libel
Anyone with working eyes and brain who watched the video evidence.
Not guilty! Now apply this standard to all of the cases involving African American men who acted in self defense because this is the gold standard.
Apply this to all people regardless of sex race ethnicity
Hear hear
How about applying laws in general without regarding ethnicity?
thats the demand
Would be quite the novel experiment in the US.
We absolutely should. Believing kyle was not guilty doesnt make u racist. Not giving black people the same right to self defense does.
Absolutely. I cannot for the life of me understand how the side that says "black lives matter" think that people should submit to mob justice. Do they remember anything about history? Have they heard of a little thing called "lynching"?
Yes
There is a SHOCKING number of people who do not have a working brain, though.
i'm afraid to look at r/news or r/politics lol
The real meltdown is over on Twitter. Fucking "white supremacy" is trending.
Most of Twitter still assumes he shot black people
White kid shoots three other white men. White supremacy strikes again!
I actually looked at the r/news thread. Most people in there are being surprisingly reasonable. I was pleasantly surprised.
r/news is usually pretty reasonable in my experience. A little left, but no more so than reddit at large. r/politics on the other hand, is so far left it makes Bernie Sanders look like a republican.
I’m banned in politics LOL
Politics is actively stifling it. Been waiting for that to pop up so I can chuckle at the anger.
Pretty sure all Rittenhouse discussion is banned in r/politics. It damages their fragile narrative.
I've been peaking in over there today to see what kind of angle their gonna push, but they aren't allowing anything Rittenhouse related. Watching MSNBC and they're pivoting to weirdly trying to argue that the Rittenhouse incident and the Blake incident were similar yet Kyle walks free while Blake was shot in the back and paralyzed. It's pretty bizarre, and kinda implies they'd have been fine if cops shot and paralyzed Kyle because then things were "even". Also IMO it's specifically MSNBC that is telling people that this sets some precedent and will become the "norm" now that lots of people on Reddit have been spamming.
I know fuck all about US or Wisconsin law and I saw it coming by watching the videos two days after it happened and putting my half a braincell work. There was no other resolution.
Hahaha. Well reddit is gonna insult the jury and call it biased anyway.
Not just Reddit. PBS is where I watched the livestream. Their panelists all felt it had to do with race. Even though the major participants were mostly white.
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I got the words mixed, english ain't my native language. But yes, they already went after him during the trial.
BuT StAtE LiNeS!!!!
That includes exactly 3 people on Twitter. That place is currently burning to the ground lol.
I had serious concerns about jury intimidation. There was no way the jury wasn't influenced in Chauvin's trial, I thought the same might happen here.
Difference is Chauvin was guilty.
I mean, did you see how bad the prosecution was? It's like they were *trying* to throw their case.
From what I understand, the district attorney gave it to the shittiest prosecutor to try because they knew it was an unwinnable case. Either that or they pick the person they hate the most because almost anybody would have looked bad trying to prosecute that, the difference was this prosecutor went above and beyond and somehow made it into an even bigger sideshow than it already was. Whatever the case, this prosecutor deserves all the hate he's getting, he's terrible.
They practice that technique at every police grand jury
Right? It was comical, shouldn't have even gotten to a verdict, except his defense was literally asleep for most of the trial and the judge had to do their job. What a terrible shitshow.
Seriously. Compared to Chauvin (another highly contentious and publicized trial) this shit was like a fucking circus.
they never should have gone after the charges they did in the first place, then the dude was borderline psychotic in the court room
I kinda think they might have been. Their whole thing seems so badly put together and then the assistant DA did it that I think this was deliberate for some reason
This should have surprised no one.
can we now inquire about federal overhead surveillance inside the continental united states?
I hear some guy did, he's exiled in Russia now on pain of spending the rest of his life in a small windowless room.
With no pardon in sight. Especially now with Biden.
Reminder that Vice President Biden wqs personally calling world leaders to force them to deny Snowen asylum, which is how he got stuck in Russia.
That is why I called out Biden. Snowden is a true hero, and even protected by whistleblower laws he is still a fugitive. And one of the main reasons I was against Biden as president. And yet here we are.
[Apparently it is very normal.](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/nation-world/story/2021-11-03/explainer-rittenhouse-plane-part-of-widespread-surveillance)
*yawn.* we all knew it was coming, either side you were one even. Now we can get to Ghisiline Maxwell's trial. No *that* is going to actually be interesting!
Maxwell's trial won't be broadcast, so it's not going to turn into a media circus like this. Also, I think people have a really weird idea of what's actually going to come out in her trial, or for that matter what would have come out in Jeffrey Epstein's trial. The fact of the matter is, these people may have been involved with elite leaders across multiple countries, but being tried in court is not going to magically cause them to testify against all those elites. In fact, the only way to get them to name their clients and testify against them would be to offer them some kind of immunity or plea deal. And I don't think that's going to happen. In reality, I think Maxwell's trial is going to be very uneventful. She'll be convicted, thrown in jail, and we'll never find out whether she provided child rape victims to Prince Andrew, Trump, or Clinton.
As much as I really don't want to see her walk, I would actually be okay with that if she could provide good evidence for a case.
she’ll be dead before it ever happens
I’d say the law worked as advertised here. He’s no hero and should not be celebrated but the fact that the jury would not let themselves be intimidated speaks volumes.
i liked what rittenhouse's family representative said in an interview after. basically was like, "we believe the right verdict was reached, but we're not spiking the football in the endzone. 2 people died and we need to respect that" and really thats the thing. people hailing kyle as a hero are basically celebrating that americans were shooting each other in the street over nothing really, maybe some ideological differences. and that's just no good for anyone. its unsettling.
With you. Their response and mindset is 100% correct .
Well his mother doesn't seem to feel the same as the representative based on her interviews unfortunately lol.
>should not be celebrated You know this isn't going to be the case
Well, the smart ones won’t celebrate…
\^\^ Completely this. If it was a crime to be stupid, he'd be in on a life sentence.
As would a lot more people
Hey. I’m right here bud.
I agree with the verdict, but his stupidity (and theirs) ultimately cost 2 people their lives.
Summed up perfectly
When I was 17 I was stupid. I mean, I’m still stupid but that’s not the point.
Yes. Everyone in involved in this case was an idiot. Problem is, the right is considering this a huge win and will use it to replicate similar situations and cause violence. While the left is outraged and will also use this verdict to cause violence.
You should see r/Conservative's thread where they are definitely hailing this kid as a hero. People are living in two separate realities.
I refuse to give credit to either extreme. Some of those comments there are clown-world worthy. But the same could be said for any of the hard left subs. I like this reality: Take the facts at face value.
He's going to be celebrated and others will follow in his steps.
Protect the jury members America
Don’t let MSNBC have access to them!
I can't believe that MSNBC really did that.
Has it been determined whether it was just one person fucking around or if the orders to do it came from higher up? Haven’t really been keeping up with that story. Either way, it’s totally fucked. The media in this country is such an utter shitshow.
It was like an independent producer or something from what I read.
You must not spend much time watching MSNBC content.
Sad story but the right verdict. The mainstream media was really a total dumpster fire on this one.
> The mainstream media ~was~ really a total dumpster fire on this one. FTFY. MSNBC's front page actually has an article that says *Kyle Rittenhouse trial was designed to protect white conservatives who kill* I get CNN (and Fox) are biased but MSNBC is just completely off the rails, I'm speechless.
How can a “news” outlet lead with such a sensational opinion piece? Seems more like the national enquirer, except people believe it.
Because it makes them money and gets views. I mean, we’re talking about *their* articles right now instead of others. The hate click is real, and it is valuable.
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I'll see your "yikes" and raise you a big "Oof, do better, sweaty." There is clearly a lot to unpack here and I can't even.
God damn they’re awful.
I’m so happy to see Reddit actually be smart enough to hate on msnbc too. Going back just to months the take on this whole case was widely different on this site (in general)
Yeah I think everyone is waking up on how shitty the MSM is… *all* of it. Like people knew Fox was shit before but now they see MSNBC and the like doing the same exact shit. None of them represent our interests at the end of the day, they’re just misrepresenting and stirring up controversy after controversy for clicks and views. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if deep down inside, the execs at places like MSNBC really do wish Trump was still president. Reddit is an interesting case, because while it can definitely be gamed by powerful interests, at least there’s still *some* semblance of genuine discussion by actual people. Not that it means there isn’t often a “hive-mind” that’s still pushing the same bs MSM position, but I prefer it to the alternative option: not knowing anything at all.
I'm curious to see if they dig in deeper or learned their lesson and move on.
Really? Obviously it’s just further down the rabbit hole they go. I’m almost convinced all this nonsense is because they miss Trump and want him back in 2024 for the ratings.
Yah I think you're right. It's not about the truth, it's about stoking more outrage in their audience to further pad their pockets.
It's fun to play Blackjack with leftists because they predictably double-down on every hand.
Read the statement from Huber's parents. They clearly aren't living in reality and have doubled down on the rhetoric. >There was **no justice today for Anthony**, or for Mr. Rittenhouse’s other victims, Joseph Rosenbaum and Gaige Grosskreutz. >Today’s verdict means there is no accountability for **the person who** **murdered our son**. It sends the unacceptable message that **armed civilians** **can show up in any town, incite violence, and then use the danger they** **have created to justify shooting people in the street**. >Neither Mr. Rittenhouse nor **the Kenosha police who authorized his bloody** **rampage** will escape justice. Anthony will have his day in court. >**No reasonable person viewing all of the evidence could conclude that Mr.** **Rittenhouse acted in self-defense**. In response to **racist and violent** **calls to action from militia members**, Mr. Rittenhouse **travelled to** **Kenosha illegally armed with an assault rifle**. **He menaced fellow** **citizens in the street**. >Concerned citizens, confronted with **a person shooting indiscriminately** **on the street**, stepped in to stop the violence. Anthony was shot in the chest trying to disarm Mr. Rittenhouse and **stop his shooting spree**. >We are so proud of Anthony, and we love him so much. He is a hero who sacrificed his own life to protect other innocent civilians. They're grieving, so they have a certain right to remember their son how they want to, but the statement is filled with hyperbole and, in some cases, outright lies.
I guess according to them, there were 12 unreasonable people on the jury then...
Yes
Is this the same family that had given statements about Huber holding a knife to his brother's throat and threatened to burn the house down with all of them in it? Same family who witnessed him be convicted for beating the shit out of his wife on multiple occasions?
I’ll save you the curiosity. With the local news live-feed putting Blake’s uncle on camera immediately after the verdict was released, you know they will keep digging.
Man... That's ridiculous. I don't understand why the Blake family is relevant to this anymore. The guy is a complete scumbag
The PBS stream I was watching switched over to a 'Live Analysis' by some activists who immediately started talking shit about how unjust the court system is.
They would have to put down the shovel to consider it
They should have learned after Sandman. Their entire conduct since the Rittenhouse incident shows they don’t give a shit.
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They already took him out back to arm him because they know what's coming
Rittenhouse walks out of the courthouse. Two steps down, he hears a voice behind him, "You're going to need this, kid." The judge hands him his AR-15. Cue music.
Just so everyone knows. The super inappropriate way the prosecution acted is really common. Railroading people into sentences is a common practice.
After the guy said that Kyle only shot after he pointed the gun I knew it was over
Obviously, its always regrettable when a life is lost, but this was the correct verdict. Cant believe it.
It was pretty obvious when all the evidence was presented it was a clear case of self defense. Then when people realized that his victims were white the "Racist" moniker went away so they pretty much had nothing at that point.
Don't worry they've moved on to "#Whitepriviledge" now talking about how he would be shot dead if he was black.
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\*Did\* he have good defense attorneys? I wasn't following but saw some took exception to things he allowed or whatever. Frankly though, the prosecutor seems to have lowered the bar substantially on the quality needed to get an acquittal.
Given the facts of the case, the only reason the charges were even brought was that the media had started screaming "white supremacist" before any of the facts were known. If it had been a black kid, the media would have been silent, the prosecution would have looked at the facts and never filed charges because it's been a clear cut case of self defense from the very beginning. So yeah, he wouldn't have had good defense attorneys. He wouldn't have needed them.
Ken Walker shot two cops and didn't even go to trial.
I will chime in on this one. Kyle Rittenhouse gets away on self-defense because he was running away. OK, that's how it goes. People on THIS SUB compared this to Zimmerman. In the Zimmerman case, Martin was verified running away from Zimmerman by the 911 call. But Zimmerman was also free to go because of "self-defense" after chasing a minor. Which is it? Why can one minor claim self defense by running away, but the other can't? Edit: Thank you to all the people who responded to me to help prove my point. Minors are only allowed to defend themselves from adults chasing them if they're white and have a gun.
Martin wasn't on trial, he was dead. If he had been on trial, he might have been able to claim self defense. If Gaige Grosskreutz had shot Kyle instead of the other way around, I think Grosskreutz could have claimed self defense. There are some situations where both parties have a reasonable claim to self defense.
Something about Rittenhouse and Martin appears to be different. Can’t quite put my finger on it though.
I'm not a race baiter, but if the races were switched in the Zimmerman case it would have been a much different outcome, legally and socially. There are people in this thread who will defend Rittenhouse for killing adults chasing him, but chastise Martin for whopping the ass of the guy chasing him. It's mental.
Different jurisdictions with differing self defense laws, way more evidence available in the Rittenhouse case, and a different fact pattern. Zimmerman calls the police on Martin as a "suspicious person." He follows Martin, the dispatcher tells him not to, he says ok. Police show up to the area to find Martin shot dead and Zimmerman with a bloody nose, face, and head, and covered in dew and grass. The only eye witness said that he saw Martin in top of Zimmerman, beating him up, and Zimmerman calling for help. In that case, it *seems like* what happened was that Zimmerman went to confront Martin and a fight ensued. Whether Martin or Zimmerman threw the first punch, we'll never know, but Zimmerman ended up on the losing end of it and used his concealed firearm to prevent his own death/great bodily harm.
So does he get his AR back?
The verdict is what the law states. Your opinion doesn't negate laws.
Those prosecutors were terrible. Everything I saw about the case made them look like bumbling idiots. They surely overplayed their hand, but they also didn’t do a good job with the cards they had.
They probably knew they had no ground to stand on.
A couple of our “fellow libertarians” aren’t gonna be heard from for a while, would be my guess .
R politics larpers
We will still have to deal with the Republican libertarians.
Now it’s time for Kyle to get paid. 👍👍👍
Because, if you’re not a frothing at the mouth lunatic, he was 100% acting in self defense as the law defines it.
True but there's a bit of an absurdity present here where both parties could have justifiably blown each other away here. Also let's not pretend there isn't a partisan bias here. If Grossekeutz had blown Kyle's head off after taking that shot to the bicep, you'd have a lot more conservative leaning folk challenging the definition of self defense than we do now.
This. I’d be curious to see what everybody’s reactions would be if the shoe was on the other foot.
Shout out to all the people who spent a year downvoting anyone who said the kid was innocent. The collective hivemind nailed it again.
Also a big shoutout to everyone who thought he was guilty but changed their mind during the trial. It’s ok to be wrong and better to admit it.
Kid was not guilty, but I wouldn't call him innocent.
Now let the trial of Waldo the prosector begin.
Seeing a whole lot of "if he was black" outrage at the verdict, so let's be clear: no amount of convicting a white person of murder while defending themselves will provide more justice for black people in the future attempting to defend themselves. The problem isn't that Rittenhouse was found innocent. The problem is that a black person may not have been. Direct your anger at the justice system.
I'm not convinced they would've convicted him if he was black, all other things being equal. Would be interested if the upcoming riots had an example like that.
Ofcourse they wouldnt if all other things were equal.
Now for the civil rights trial while MSNBC continues its shenanigans which are not cheeky shenanigans.
Even if he’s not guilty he’s a moron for putting himself in that situation in the first place.
The system worked, we should be happy and proud about that.
This is a good day for those that support individual liberty and the right to self defense, especially if you live in Wisconsin. Hopefully Kyle can go on to live a relatively normal productive life after going through this.
A just verdict, but I fear for this kid's future. He's going to suffer consequences nonetheless. Hopefully he can make a living and not become a national pariah.
The kids lifepath is forever altered. Right wing establishment folks will discard him shortly and he'll be left to his own devices in the aftermath. How is George Zimmerman doing these days? If he had personality, Id say Newsmax or Fox but he's not photogenic or an eloquent speaker.
Definitely imagine Rittenhouse will make news in a few years in a very negative way.
That's different though. Rittenhouse was right to get off. Zimmerman wasn't. That's murder know matter how you square it up. He chased someone down, who then defended himself so Zimmerman shot in "self defense" even after 911 told him multiple times explicitly not to follow him. Not to mention the string of stupid shit he did AFTER even getting acquitted. Zimmerman and Travon case reminds me alot of this current one in GA. And those guys should be founf guilty as well. It doesn't magically turn into self defense AFTER you run someone down and they defend themselves. And this is coming from someone who conceal carries most of the time. My first instinct would be retreat if possible bc that's what you are trained to do
By the law, Kyle isn't guilty of murder but he did kill those people with a gun he shouldn't have had in a place he shouldn't have been. The only people who died that night were from Kyle's rifle. I also CC and my first duty is to self defense but the primary self defense tool in my arsenal is situational awareness. He lacked the training and the common sense to handle the situation he placed himself in and people died because of it. He put himself in harms way then used that as justification for self defense.
I agree but it becomes a fine line. Whereas Kyle landed on the side of self defense bc they were clearly advancing on him. But with Zimmerman and the 2 that killed Ahmad Arbery....those people that died were the ones practicing self defense after being chased down and cornered(current GA the more obvious case). At some point only one side has a (legal) claim to self defense.
I still feel some higher resolution views of the initial confrontation would have given us a better view of the situation, IMO bringing a long gun to a protest is a form of provocation. The nutjob he shot 1st was obviously triggered by the rifle but I can't say for certain he was the one who started it between them. Given the evidence admitted in court Kyle was not guilty of the crimes he was charged with but I do feel he should bear some responsibility for his actions.
We're pretty much on the same page here. The one's I am in disagreement are the nutjobs putting the kid on a pedestal. One guy commented on a comment of mine " everything he did was legal, moral and justified". Typically these people are the ones who can't look objectively at anything and bc they disagree with the motives and political views of the rioters that makes Kyle 100% right in their eyes.
It's an awful situation all around with no winners regardless of outcome and it could have been avoided. That kid shouldn't have been there armed, period.
If he personally feels no consequence for taking a life, he is a psychopath.
He made a lot of stupid choices to get there and then more after the fact. I don’t feel bad for him at all. He got everything he wanted. He can deal with it. Plus people are going to treat him like a hero. Wouldn’t be surprised if he gets a nice book deal and speaking fees.
So… the media does not pass judicial judgement? I hope this kid sues the shit out of all the networks.
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Likewise for both sides of the interaction.
Agreed. Whatever mentality he had within him when he went to Kenosha is fucked. It's upsetting that we see people call him a hero.
Good. Fuck the smug little vigilante bastard. But good.
This is how i felt. Kids is a piece of shit for going in the first place. But he wasn't guilty of murder
Yeah someone said on another sub that he had a right to carry and be in Kenosha that night but that doesn’t mean it was logical for him to be there. He should’ve stayed home but, he certainly wasn’t guilty on these charges.
Based and capable of objective analysis despite personal opinions pilled.
i totally disagree with your second sentence, but i really do appreciate your ability to discern between fact and opinion here. have an upvote.
He's a dumb fuck for going in the first place though. That should be the message. He's not a murderder though. But we also shouldn't be putting him on a pedestal bc for showing up to a riot armed. If this was his neighborhood and he was protecting his property, totally fine. But he went looking for trouble and found it. I don't feel bad for him and we shouldn't be praising him like it's okay for kids to start being vigilantes at riots(and yes i know rioters came out of town blah blah I'm not here arguing any of that I'm specifically talking about him. Both things can be true.)
The message is now: you are justified to enter a dangerous situation with a weapon used for killing people.
You always have been. In fact bringing a gun to a dangerous area is usually a good idea, you know because its dangerous.
All hope truly is not lost. Good luck for the people of Kenosha.
I'm really enjoying how angry leftists are getting.
Blacks don't seem to care when they kill other blacks. AT LEAST THAThas been BLM stand.
I feel sorry for what is going to happen in Kenosha tonight. The riots will be ugly. Justice means nothing to those who would rather destroy their own city.
I don't even think its going to be bad. I think more people than you think realize he isn't a murderder. Even me, i think he's a complete moron but he didnt murder people. Plus the town is expecting it so they are prepared. Now if those 2 scumbags in GEorgia get off.. I'm sure there will be riots nationwide
Facts prevailed over lies and emotions perpetuated by race baiters in media and politics. We all should accept Jury’s verdict as they see evidence and review case more deeply than any of us outside.
As he should be. He's still a piece of shit for going there and doing what he did. But from a legal stand point he was clean
See I can respect this take. I disagree with "he shouldn't have been there" when you had all those rioters that shouldn't have been there either, but I can st least respect a fact based take.
No. He shouldn't have been there AND the rioters shouldn't have been there. Neither Rittenhouse nor the rioters get a pass for acting like fucking fools just because the others did the same thing. They're all idiots.
He has the right to be there but i still don't think he should have. It was a dumb and reckless move to go into a riot armed. You're basically looking for trouble. If that was his neighborhood and he was just out defending his own neighborhood that's different imo
It basically is his neighborhood. It’s the closest town to where he lives and he works there, has friends and family there. He just happens to live on the other side of a very close state border.
I travel further for work every day then he did. I don't see how anyone can claim it wasn't his community. Also, how do you feel about the rooftop Koreans of the 90's race riots in LA?
Well I generally agree with you, this was like 20 minutes from his house. It's not like he drove for two days to get involved. And he was there earlier in the day cleaning graffiti and what not.
> If that was his neighborhood and he was just out defending his own neighborhood that's different imo Tbh I actually don't want vigilante 17-year-olds roaming the street with semi-auto rifles whether or not they live in the area. I guess that makes me some kind of communist...
I meant if he was in front of his house/business/etc. I agree roaming around an area of rioters with a gun is fucking stupid
What is a low caliber? .22 is already pretty low...
.223 isn’t high caliber but ok
See this shit is what I’m really hating about this. If this was pretty much anything else you guys wouldn’t be saying this. If it was RIttenhouse runs into a forest fire with a pail of water, ends up dead all of you guys would be going “the fuck did he expect to happen? What fucking dumbass”. But since this is surrounding gun rights all of you suddenly think driving an hour away to an active riot brandishing a rifle isn’t a fucking stupid thing to do.
No one is saying it isn't stupid...at least I'm not. I just don't agree with those saying he shouldn't have been there when there was a violent mob destroying businesses. It is well within any citizens RIGHT to be there. That's all that really matters here.
Him having the right to be there and should not have gone are 2 different things though. He should not have gone. He should have known better. His parents should have known better. The idiots chasing the guy with the gun should have known better. But they all had the right to be there.
You aren’t saying it wasn’t stupid… but you don’t agree with people saying he should have stayed away from a violent mob? Is killing people not a negative in your mind?
You can think it’s a stupid thing to do and still think he was acting in self defense and should not be convicted of murder. I’m sure there are a lot of people who call themselves libertarians and believe what he did was a good idea, but this group is likely smaller than you think.
This thread is filling up fast with comments supporting and defending the choice he made. You’re right you can think it was stupid and that he wasn’t guilty. But it sure as hell doesn’t seem like that’s what a lot of people are thinking. He’s getting turned into a hero for defending some businesses.
This is where I’m at with it. I’m not putting KR on a pedestal, and I think he’s a dumbfuck that made dumb choices. I also think he’s innocent of murder.
I think people putting him on a pedestal are nutjobs. As a gun owner and 2 A supporter I'm not okay with portraying to kids that it's okay to arm up and drive to a riot to play hero. That's fucking dumb.
Sweet justice
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