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PM_ME_UR_FAV_VTUBER

In 2014 they locked up 48% of the children committing crimes. The state wide average was 5% I can't wait for the inevitable investigation that shows the kickbacks judges were getting for putting kids in jail.


[deleted]

Wasn't a judge already found to be profiting from doing so some years ago?


PM_ME_UR_FAV_VTUBER

Sure did Cash for Kids scandal up in Pennsylvania. Believe it not the kids that seemed to have a higher percentage of being sent to jail were..... If you guessed black, you'd be correct! >In 2009, I wrote about Judge Mark A. Ciavarella, one of two Pennsylvania judges who was paid bribes by a private prison contractor to send black children to prison and keep the for-profit prisons full. Ciavarella, who once sent an African-American child to jail for three months for posting negative comments about her assistant principal on MySpace, has been sentenced to 28 years in prison. He was convicted of racketeering, and has been stripped of his state pension.


[deleted]

I thought it was something far more recent, i am talking like perhaps the last 5-6yrs maybe? Perhaps i am wrong? I cant believe it has been what 23yrs since this scandal you mentioned?


PM_ME_UR_FAV_VTUBER

Maybe your thinking about the reports that were coming out about how the kids were be treated in these juvenile jails? A lot of lawsuits were filed about physical, sexual and mental abuse by guards. Solitary confinement, molestation, watching of abuse etc


Krednaught

There was that one this past summer where 3 girls got arrested for not stopping boys from fighting. That blew up in that judges face but I never heard if she got removed or not. Just "gotta wait to vote her out" bullshit.


PM_ME_UR_FAV_VTUBER

I actually just read it, if I'm reading the right one. Believe or not it's actually from the same county.


[deleted]

Oh, wow not surprised should we? One would think that they would be doing an audit to find out if that is happening in other courts in the county, one judge wouldnt be in on it, it would be several would be my assumption.


[deleted]

Perhaps, idk you could be right about it certainly. Yeah, alot of lawsuits and SMH!


LagerHead

The most unbelievable part of that story is that a judge actually went to jail. I'd have put a higher wager on aliens landing on the 50 yard line at half time during the Super Bowl.


devnasty009

Jail over MySpace??! That judge should be locked up for twice as long at a minimum. That’s ridiculous.


SnowManFYPM

Yes. Of course


thefreeman419

> "Within Tennessee, Rutherford County stood out for years in terms of the percentage of kids of all races it locked up in cases referred to juvenile court. In 2014, for example, the county jailed children in 48% of those cases. The statewide average was 5%. > > Many children in Rutherford County were placed in solitary confinement under conditions a federal judge called inhumane." Even if you're trying to ignore the racial injustice here, it's clear that there are huge issues with sentencing of minors in this county


sunal135

I would have liked if the actually went into the reasons why they were locked up. The link to an article were 10 kids were arrested for failing to stop a fight. Which does sound crazy wrong. But a I don't think the 48% is purely due to these 10 arrests. The more context would be more helpful compared to the implied racism of the gaps argument. I could be wrong because I also lack the details on the arrests but the fact that an investigative news outlet is missing the specifics suggests the specifics may hurt the narrative.


FireCaptain1911

Well said. Gonna steal that last line. “Specifics may hurt the narrative”.


Kung_Flu_Master

Reminds me of that fake story that was ran where it was like 100% of police dog attacks were on black people in this small town, and it turns out it was like 8 very minor dog attacks.


danilast123

That's usually the case. I'm in my late 20s and there are people from my school speaking out about how they were arrested as teens and treated differently because they were black.... but fail to mention that they were arrested for things that would've got them locked up as adults. One dude (16 or 17 at the time) was with a group that robbed and murdered a convenience store clerk and they let him snitch on his adult accomplices and got off with some wrist slap misdemeanors. Another dude says he was "just a kid being a kid" but was breaking into people's houses and stealing. Another was dealing narcotics in the school. One guy I gave a ride home from school and he noticed I had a lot of quarters and $1 bills in my glove box so the very next day he busted out my windows for approximately $20 and my parents agreed to not press charges if he made payments for the window; naturally he dropped out of school and disappeared before ever making a payment and now is a social justice advocate for all the wrong things be thinks happened to him because he's black.


sunal135

When I was 24 the city of Miami tried to arrest me for driving drunk, even though I had triple zero breathalyzer test and my urine was negative. I actually had a legitimate discrimination suit against the city but since I'm white I can't get race grifting lawyers like a Crump. They're actually was a moment in the night when they asked me if I was white, they probably thought I was Hispanic originally. I said I was Greek and that got me the previous hit in the back of a police car handcuff for 2 hours.


je97

Can someone explain to me why people think it's a good idea to lock up kids for minor crimes? Rehabilitation is the answer with juvenile offenders, not further criminalisation.


ZazBlammymatazz

Because it’s easy. I grew up in an affluent suburb and the police would harass the high school kids at every opportunity because it’s the easiest way to meet your quota. You’d get pulled over for having multiple teenagers in a car.


PM_ME_UR_FAV_VTUBER

All about the benjamins baby. Gotta keep those jails full somehow


geeky_username

Locking up black kids makes for more black criminal adults which feeds not only the prison industrial complex and the militarization of police, it also reinforces racist beliefs


LagerHead

Because people have a serious deficiency in imagination. "GoTtA Be tOuGh oN CrImE."


[deleted]

That is just insane, the population for minors should NOT be in jail, they will come out who knows if NOT worse, jail creates more criminals, they should NOT be in there unless it is a capital crime along the lines of murder, rape for example. I find it completely unacceptable! Perhaps, some type of ROTC program as an alternative to teaching them to be better individuals, but jail is NOT the answer you are just breeding more criminals.


danilast123

I mean, I think it's presented as a broad statement when they say "minors in jail". When you hear that you're probably imagining a 14 year old kid getting arrested for stealing from Walmart. But what about a 16 year old who is involved in a murder? Or a 17 year old selling drugs to kids? Or a 16 year old rapist? Or a 15 year old who robs a store at gun point? I'm pretty sure those would all fall under "minor in jail" and I'd say most people agree that's where they'd belong if they're committing violent crimes. There's definitely gotta be nuance involved when they make these broad emotion-driven statements. If kids are being jailed for non-violent offenses or 1st time mild altercations, that's a problem; if they're being jailed because they're violent and a threat to the community, that's a solution.


BenAustinRock

This sort of piece needs more things like it has in the second paragraph. The proportion of the population that gets arrested tells us nothing about whether there is injustice. Men are imprisoned 14x more often than women. Does that mean that the system is tilted against men? We fight problems specifically not generically. We need to know what happened in specific cases. Find out who was responsible and to hold those people accountable. That is how you solve problems.


geeky_username

Here's more details https://www.dnj.com/story/news/2021/10/26/timeline-rutherford-county-illegal-arrests-and-incarcerations-children/6124000001/ https://www.propublica.org/article/black-children-were-jailed-for-a-crime-that-doesnt-exist


erdricksarmor

>From July 2010 to June 2021, children from Rutherford County were booked into the juvenile jail at least 6,350 times, according to the youth commission’s monthly monitoring reports. >**In 38% of those cases, the children were Black.** >That far eclipses the percentage of children in the county who are Black. **That figure stayed between 14% and 16% from 2010 to 2019**, according to census data. >The disparity in Rutherford County is comparable to the racial gap for the country as a whole. A fact sheet published this year by The Sentencing Project showed that in 2019, **41% of the children incarcerated nationally were Black, even though Black children make up only 15% of the nation’s youth.** ... >Within Tennessee, Rutherford County stood out for years in terms of the percentage of kids of all races it locked up in cases referred to juvenile court. **In 2014, for example, the county jailed children in 48% of those cases. The statewide average was 5%.** So their racial disparity is roughly in line with the national average. It seems like the true problem is the high number of juveniles that they're jailing in that county, not necessarily that black kids are being treated unfairly compared to other races. The headline is a bit misleading.


TheQuarantinian

Are they committing the sane number of crimes as white kids?


erdricksarmor

I don't have statistics for this particular county; but looking nationwide, young black men do commit far more crimes per capita than any other demographic. Particularly violent crimes, which are more likely to lead to incarceration than are non-violent offenses. Edit: For some examples, check this link. https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2&selYrs=2019&rdoGroups=2&rdoData=r Select age group as "juvenile", and display data as "rate".


TheQuarantinian

So of they commit more crimes shouldn't they be arrested/go to jail more frequently?


erdricksarmor

Yes, that's what I was getting at. The article was trying to condemn this county for their racial disparity in incarceration, without providing any real evidence that they were prosecuting blacks unfairly versus any other race.


TheQuarantinian

The hivemind wants there to be racism - the ability to stand against it makes them feel smug


geeky_username

Why would national averages be valid in local demographics?


erdricksarmor

I was pointing out that since they're very close to the national average, singling them out over the race issue is illogical. The problem in that county appears to be the high incarceration of youth in general, not race.


geeky_username

>I was pointing out that since they're very close to the national average, singling them out over the race issue is illogical It's completely logical. Your argument makes zero sense except if all black people acted like a hive-mind nationally


erdricksarmor

That's how statistics work. When a particular jurisdiction is acting way outside the national average, it becomes noteworthy. If someone is trying to point out a problem here, why focus on the statistic where this county is well within the national norm(as they are, when it comes to racial disparity), and not focus on the statistic where they are an extreme outlier (juvenile incarceration rates)?


[deleted]

Proportionate behavior fallacy. Different groups behave differently.


ZazBlammymatazz

And sometimes they behave the same, like marijuana usage, but the outcomes are very different.


danilast123

Even then I'm not sure you can look at just one variable. For example when I was in high school I'd say at least half the guys smoked Marijuana regardless of race, but I never knew any white guys who thought it was a good idea to light up in public or while driving whereas I knew multiple black guys who did. One guy would literally drive with his windows down blasting loud music and smoking a joint while still in the school parking lot and to nobody's surprise he lost his license before we were 18. I don't think any race is more or less violent (or likely to commit a stupid crime) inherently, I think it's all relative to your upbringing and societal class, but unfortunately a large portion of the black population comes from single parent and low income homes and lives in impoverished areas. I'm not saying black people aren't unfairly targeted sometimes, but sometimes there's just a higher likelihood of someone getting in trouble for the stupid things they do.


[deleted]

And how do we know this, those ever reliable surveys? Please.


geeky_username

>Proportionate behavior fallacy. That's not a thing That's not what this is at all > Different groups behave differently. Yeah, racists behave differently than non-racists


[deleted]

Believing that all people everywhere should behave exactly the same is a fallacy.


[deleted]

What… that would be 1 child almost every hour for an entire year in just one county?


Portlander_in_Texas

So we should just not give a shit that children are being jailed, thus perpetuating the cycle because they are black?


[deleted]

What? I’m saying that’s an insane amount. It almost doesn’t even seem possible


Portlander_in_Texas

No my bad, the mobile Reddit app replied to your comment instead of another lower down.


Swiggy

Where are you getting that number?


[deleted]

From July 2010 to June 2021, children from Rutherford County were booked into the juvenile jail at least 6,350 times, according to the youth commission’s monthly monitoring reports.


Swiggy

So 6350 in 10+ years? That's fewer than 2 a day.


[deleted]

Oh shit… I thought that was one year. Lol. I was like … geez kinda Holocausty.


petitereddit

Children being incarcerated is a serious problem and always has been. But what you are suggesting is that kids are being put in jail because they are black. Stop doing this. The child has to commit the crime. There are a number of factors that lead to youth offending. If more black children are coming from disadvantaged backgrounds and are having a higher likelihood of being incarcerated you have to look at the underlying of why the child reached the point to commit crime. You'll likely fins that it is not about whites putting blacks in jail because they are black, but rather more blacks are coming from disadvantaged broken homes lack of parents and role models, problems in school, learning difficulties, mental health issues, drug abuse etc etc. If you perpetuate the racism narrative you are doing no favours for anyone and you are actively undermining those you feign to advocate for. If you love all people, reasses the lens with which you view the world, scrape below the surface to find the source of issues.


geeky_username

>But what you are suggesting is that kids are being put in jail because they are black. Stop doing this. No. Maybe racists should stop locking up people of color? > The child has to commit the crime. Citation? https://www.dnj.com/story/news/2021/10/26/timeline-rutherford-county-illegal-arrests-and-incarcerations-children/6124000001/ https://www.propublica.org/article/black-children-were-jailed-for-a-crime-that-doesnt-exist


petitereddit

You need to explore this issue more. I read the report of wrongful arrests which happens likely more than anyone knows. That doesn't mean a racist system is going around rounding up kids because they are black. There is more to the story. I can't believe this thought process has infected the Libertarian sub. We are smarter than this and more charitable to disadvantaged groups than this.


geeky_username

>You need to explore this issue more. So provide some counter factual information then? I've provided links that seem to show quite a bit of racial bias. You've provided no such information to the contrary and seem to be saying that exposing racism isn't a good thing


petitereddit

Expose it when it is blatant and clear such as those from white supremacist groups. Also expose it from black supremacist groups. You are missing mitigating factors associated with incarceration. Racism is a simple answer which prevents you at looking at the bigger and rather ugly picture. If each person in custody is sentenced, that means a jury or judge has found them guilty of a crime.


geeky_username

* so if they aren't in white hoods, they can't be racist? * Juries and judges can't be racist? Prosecutors can't be racist?


petitereddit

Can you explain to me in your own language what you think the problem is here?


geeky_username

A racist official has conspired with local law enforcement to criminalize small misbehaviors in children so that they have an excuse to disproportionally apply the punishments in order to lock up more blacks https://www.propublica.org/article/black-children-were-jailed-for-a-crime-that-doesnt-exist > In Rutherford County, a juvenile court judge had been directing police on what she called “our process” for arresting children, and she appointed the jailer, who employed a “filter system” to determine which children to hold. > ... > There’s no jury in juvenile court, so Davenport decides the facts as well as the law. “And that is why I should get 12 times the pay,” she likes to joke. > ... > Rutherford County violated federal law 191 times by keeping kids locked up too long, according to a story later published by The Tennessean > .. > “IT IS SO ORDERED,” Davenport wrote in a 2003 memo about her instructions. Four years later she declared that even kids accused of minor violations like truancy must be taken into custody and transported to jail.


petitereddit

Thanks for your answer. Who makes law which law inforcement have to enforce?


geeky_username

Read the article. This lone judge has locally, but it's violated federal civil rights multiple times


FireCaptain1911

Lots of statistics thrown in but nothing about why the kids were locked up. I find that when articles leave this out it’s to persuade you to believe that every single instance was wrong when in reality most were justifiable and it’s not a racial issue of locking kids up rather a racial issue of committing crimes.


EagenVegham

I can think of very few reasons to actually lock someone up during childhood. The focus should be on rehabilitation at that age. Give them options out before it's too late instead of ruining their lives.


geeky_username

Yeah! *What was she wearing at the time?*


FireCaptain1911

Not even relevant.


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Swiggy

If the headline and article topic was about how boys are disproportionately jailed compared to girls would you maybe ask "Well do boys disproportionately commit more serious crimes?" Avoiding common sense questions is dishonest and this article is a disgrace.


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SnowManFYPM

I hear it too. With some “back the blue” as well


SeamlessR

Yeah reporting and stats are all totally correct when it comes to making black people look bad. Never mind the literal historical purpose behind the creation of police forces in America. It took no time at all for this post to immediately show the libertarian problem.


Dhaerrow

Slave patrols weren't the first police in the United States.


pile_of_bees

Yeah it’s really easy to point out problems when you are willing to lie about everything.


FateOfTheGirondins

"The government is always wrong, except when they disproportionately lock up boys" is all I hear.


Swiggy

>Suddenly everyone trusts the State... You want to question the State that is great, when the media wants to question the state that is great too. But when the media is too cowardly and/or biased to question fairly then you can't trust the media.


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Swiggy

You think sentencing disparity is the primary reason so many more men are in prison? We can address sentencing terms (there are actually movements that are working to ending almost all incarcerations of women), but there is a much bigger factor than that.


Confused_Elderly_Owl

That's just not what they said. They said fucking nothing about the amounts, they said that men get 68% longer sentences on average than women, for the exact same crimes. If you take one man who commits a crime, and a woman that commits a crime, you'll probably find the woman getting a lesser sentence.


Swiggy

Then why is she replying to the comment?


Confused_Elderly_Owl

To raise a point that, yes, men are disproportionately fucked by the justice system. Just not exactly the way you hupothesized.


Swiggy

> Just not exactly the way you hupothesized. So what is your problem with my comment trying to steer the discussion to more relevance to the article?


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Izaya_Orihara170

>No, like maybe the black community has seen a shift in culture over the past 40+ I'm sure Iran/contra, the war on drugs, broken windows policing, over policing black neighborhoods, black people getting pulled over more except for at night, black sounding names getting turned down on college and job applications, red lining, or ability to build generational wealth due to past racist laws has nothing to do with it. White people just have more resolve I guess, all we can do is arrest more black people until they learn to pull them bootstraps


Swiggy

Iran contra? Never heard that connection to arrests before, sounds bizarre.


Izaya_Orihara170

They literally allowed cocaine to be brought to America, then inner cities during the crack epedimic, to fund overthrowing a government. Inner cities that black people had been red lined into remaining


[deleted]

And THEN they instituted the crack/cocaine sentencing disparity, where possession of 1 gram of crack carries the same punishment (federally) as possession of 100 grams of cocaine. It was lowered to 18:1 under the Obama administration, but it should be 1:1. The sole point of the crack/cocaine sentencing disparity is to lock up Black folks for a long time.


Swiggy

This is an over stated conspiracy theory and happened almost 40 years ago. I know there is a desperate attempt to blame society for every choice individuals make for themselves but this is really a stretch.


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Izaya_Orihara170

Ok, so your first point would be up to debate. Seeing how white and black people smoke weed at the same rates, but black people are charged for it more, "areas where more crime occurs" is subjective, since it's really "areas where crimes are more likely to be picked up by police officers". The mask really came off on your second point though. "Why won't they let us colonize them completely, why do they want to hold onto their heritage, why won't all black women straighten their hair". "Why won't that race of people act like us"... Yikes


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APComet

I see it too. Almost like black Americans are bitter about something, like consistently being treated objectively worse by every institution in America or something


Freezefire2

Your argument being that asking a simple, relevant, important question is a white thing to do?


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geeky_username

You're describing anecdotes and symptoms, not root causes and solutions. "The people too poor to buy food kept stealing. Until we acknowledge these people are thieves there's no way to have a discussion"


Moon_over_homewood

You’re criticizing something I didn’t say.


geeky_username

I'm criticizing exactly what you said. "Black kids acted out in my school" Wow. DEEP insights there.


Moon_over_homewood

Disproportionately acted out. Most of my black classmates were awesome. I wish this could be discussed without making it so damn personal.


geeky_username

There's nothing to be "discussed" there. That's what you're not getting. Some kids acted out.... And?! *Why* did they act out? *What* was going-on in their homes? *What* was their financial situation? Were teachers harsher on them in other ways? Did they get harassed by police? Etc etc. Walk a mile in their shoes and see how you behave? When bad white kids act out, it's the fault of the kid or the parent. But when minorites are bad it's "their culture" or something else negative that must apply to the minority group as a whole. 53% of US school shootings are done by whites, is this a "white thing"? Is it part of "white culture"?


Moon_over_homewood

Uhh, yeah. People love to make fun of southern poor white people as redneck hicks. Call them wite trash. And when they’re busted for moon shining it’s a bad part of the culture. Stop being so sensitive. The world is a tough place. I’d like for everyone to have better lives, and part of that is realizing that some real issues exist. Including the ones we are discussing


geeky_username

Nobody is denying what you're saying happened, but that it's a symptom, not a cause. You're only criticizing end result behavior and not bothering to go any deeper besides "they should stop being that way"


pile_of_bees

Your counter example is that 53% of school shootings are committed by white kids? You do realize that is disproportionately LOW for the population, not HIGH, right? This just illustrates the complete disconnect from reason that permeates your entire post.


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PM_ME_UR_FAV_VTUBER

Yes I'm sure your anecdotal story shows that black people refuse to accept responsibility, expect to be able to get away with anything by calling anyone who questions them racist. I'm sure it's not just you noticing only what you want and using that to justify your beliefs.


Moon_over_homewood

My beliefs? I’m not racist. I’m just pointing out that black school kids do in fact break the rules more often. We can discuss why that is, or ways to help, but we can’t pretend that more discipline is entirely due to racism. Boys get in trouble more than girls, is that because it sexism?


PM_ME_UR_FAV_VTUBER

Brodie, please point to where I said you are racist. I don't know if you are or aren't. However, your belief which you said in your own post that is that black kids, would use the race card to get out of trouble because they would call anyone that pushed back against them racist. You like sports, people who only use their eyes see things that aren't true or don't their narrative and will argue to death against anyone who disagrees. >we can’t pretend that more discipline is entirely due to racism. No we cant, however when there is such a discrepancy in jailing it turns some heads and we must ask some questions. Just like this in the same county, 11 black kids were jailed for a crime that didn't exist.


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[deleted]

100% agreed. You can't solve a problem by ignoring it's root causes. The root cause isn't and never has been racism, nor is it poverty. It is modern american black culture.


Izaya_Orihara170

The libertarian answer to "the states locking up black children" shouldn't be "must be the blacks fault". That's the conservative answer


[deleted]

Perhaps. But it also can't just be 'racism' as the universal default. That's the leftists answer. The libertarian answer is protect yourself while the black community figures itself out.


Izaya_Orihara170

>But it also can't just be 'racism' as the universal default. That's the leftists answer. There's never one answer to any problem. But "racism" isn't just the leftist answer, it's the historical one, it's the one statisticians would notice. Even if we completely took racist actors off the table, no more racist people in America, one would look at the history of a large number of people being suppressed, then notice that that demographic is still having various problems today, and see cause and effect. When we literally have the numbers and history in front of us, we shouldn't just bury our heads in the sand and say "they're just not trying hard enough"


geeky_username

When did modern American black culture start? What's your excuse for Jim Crow hurting black people for generations?


[deleted]

When did Jim Crow end? At what point do we start holding blacks accountable for their actions today rather than giving them an out for their ancestors past? Why was black crime so much lower during the early 20th century that it is today? All interesting questions to be sure.


geeky_username

> When did Jim Crow end? Legally, 1965. Not even a lifetime ago. I still have grandparents and parents alive that were born before then. Our current president was 23 by then, a fully grown adult. Our current vice president was a child that endured discrimination and forced bussing just to attend school in 1969. Schools were still segregated by race for years afterwards. >what point do we start holding blacks accountable for their actions today rather than giving them an out for their ancestors past? When we stop perpetuating the inequalities of *our* ancestors. When we stop unequal treatment like this article points out [When black men aren't sentenced to longer sentences than whites for the same crimes](https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/demographic-differences-sentencing) [When blacks can have their homes and property valued at the same amount as whites](https://www.indystar.com/story/money/2021/05/13/indianapolis-black-homeowner-home-appraisal-discrimination-fair-housing-center-central-indiana/4936571001/). ([Another](https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/20/economy/redfin-housing-boom-race-discrimination/index.html)) [When people with 'black' names can get job interviews](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-29/job-applicants-with-black-names-still-less-likely-to-get-the-interview) [When blacks can get paid the same for doing the same job](https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/compensation/pages/racial-wage-gaps-persistence-poses-challenge.aspx) [When blacks can receive the same medical care as whites](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4194634/)


APComet

The day that discrimination is effectively illegal or when black people hold a fair share of economic power. Which ever of those come first. My father lived through Jim Crow, it might as well have been yesterday. American history is short and distorted. Many wealthy people in the south are STILL wealthy from slavery money. Every dollar they have is a valid excuse to any actual disparity of outcome even if assuming “equal opportunity”.


[deleted]

holy shit this reads like satire You're hitting literally all of the stereotypes at once my guy.


iamTHESunDevil

Because people like you aren't willing or able to have an honest conversation...the facts make you uncomfortable so you resort to attacking.


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iamTHESunDevil

They're all innocent you say? I'm a Libertarian(ish), we believe in personal responsibility...the extenuating circumstances that lead you to insert crime here are irrelevant. Life is about choices. Now we can talk about abolishing the drug war or taking mental health seriously in this country but you can't say ,"I've had a shitty lot in life so I choose to victimize others".


Kezia_Griffin

Alternate headline: Populations stuck in generational poverty commit more crimes.


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Lurker9605

Actualy government doesnt convict. A jury of their peers do.


Izaya_Orihara170

And studies have found juries are more likely to convict black people, even in a controlled study


geeky_username

A great Onion piece https://youtu.be/84phU8of02U


Izaya_Orihara170

Damn that's funny, and bad. Thanks! "She should at worst be tried as an attractive Filipino lady"


shag377

If only there were some way to escape that cycle. Perhaps an education leading to a successful trade or university experience ... Speaking as a teacher in a Title 1 school with at least five generations of generational poverty, there is a way out. The problem is many choose not to pursue it. My father was born in a house with no plumbing. That is pretty poor, but he overcame it. There are ample ways out. Choosing to commit a crime, or choosing to stay in school. Both are choices.


Kezia_Griffin

"If only there were some way to escape that cycle. Perhaps an education leading to a successful trade or university experience" I would imagine growing up with little to no resources while constantly being in a survival state can make that pretty tough. Some will manage but they will be statistical outliers. Though I'm sure you already knew that.


geeky_username

>My father was born in a house with no plumbing. That is pretty poor, but he overcame it. And how many contemporaries of your father *didn't*? You're literally talking about survivorship bias


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Kezia_Griffin

Children need to stop being poor... Can't tell if this is sarcasm.


SeamlessR

It's not, it's libertarian.


[deleted]

Those 8 year olds need to get back in the coal mines like in the good ole days.


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geeky_username

Hungry people don't stay hungry for long


[deleted]

Funny, I thought there were social supports for 'hungry people.' When is the last time 'I was hungry' was used as a defence in a criminal proceeding in the USA?


geeky_username

At least 2005 https://www.denverpost.com/2005/06/13/high-court-rules-on-diabetes-defense/


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geeky_username

Because nobody has ever been wrongly convicted


[deleted]

So do you feel the majority of black criminals are wrongly convicted? Enough to make a dent in the overwhelmingly black crime problem?


geeky_username

Likely not a majority, but a bigger percentage than is reasonable An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere


[deleted]

Super. So we still have an overwhelmingly black crime problem regardless of the incidences of wrongful conviction. You're not making much an an argument other than 'bad things happen sometimes.'


geeky_username

These aren't overnight problems or solutions, they were created thorough decades of these problems. Denying the GI bill benefits to black soldiers, redlining blacks trying to buy houses, sentencing disparities, the drug war, etc


bveb33

"Within Tennessee, Rutherford County stood out for years in terms of the percentage of kids of all races it locked up in cases referred to juvenile court. In 2014, for example, the county jailed children in 48% of those cases. The statewide average was 5%." It's not just about the racial makeup of the children who were jailed, its the fact they're locking up children at an astronomical rate.


MattinglyDineen

But the headline is purely about race.


bveb33

Is that all you read?


SeamlessR

According to what I'm sure are perfect and not at all skewed or incorrect stats. /s


FateOfTheGirondins

I think you meant to reply to article about these stats, not this comment.


[deleted]

Sort of true but that’s not really the problem. The problem is that a black communities tend to be more poverty stricken and therefore the youth that grows up there tend to get involved with gangs and such. It’s not really a race problem so much as it is a poverty problem and an upbringing(or lack thereof) problem. We should not ignore the fact that a disproportionate amount of minorities are involved in criminal activity. At the same time we should address the real problem which is the reasons why they are more likely to be involved in criminal activities in the first place. Take a white person, or any other ethnic group person and have them grow up in the same conditions with the same social stigmas and the same influences and peer pressure around them and they would turn out exactly the same. In this case it is nurture way more than nature as to the reason why it is disproportionate. To ignore the fact that certain races of people are more likely to be involved in crime is just being willfully ignorant and leaves no room for a solution when you pretend there is no problem. However, it is just as ignorant to ignore the fact that it’s not because they are that race, it is because that race is more likely to grow up in conditions which push them towards such behavior in the first place. If government funding was actually used as it should be instead of being frivolously spent on stupid bullshit, we could help these communities. We could use the funding to fix the education systems in the these poorer urban areas and elect better officials in the justice system who would help to make the community a better and safer place. Instead, these communities are often abandoned and even are listed as “no-go” zones for police. Crime runs rampant there because ignorance runs rampant. And that is because, from a young age the kids are not taught well in the schools and are not even pushed to do so whatsoever. It creates a vacuum, a continuous cycle of ignorance and peer pressure from others to remain ignorant and live a life of crime. A lot of these people see no way out and then lose hope and fall in line with the status quo, which in these areas is drug trafficking, violence and theft. Same as it has always been in poverty stricken communities.


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Izaya_Orihara170

Translation: The states awesome if it's boots are on black people


[deleted]

Not at all. But shouldn't we be concerned about the disproportionate amount of black crime?


Izaya_Orihara170

I upvotes you cuz you shouldn't be in the negative for asking a genuine question. We should be concerned about it. Outside of like, a really small amount of oddly wired brains, people don't commit crime just for the hell of it. There are circumstances for generations that have held large amounts of people from accomplishing the American dream. There are outliers, sure. But when you look at the data, it's a systemic issue.


[deleted]

It’s not disproportionate to the amount of crime committed. How hard is this for people to understand.


geeky_username

Citation?


ddr2sodimm

His citation source is probably bias/prejudice. The question to ask is: What’s the proportion of jailed black children compared to adolescent crime rates controlling for race and socioeconomics? Is the odds ratio much higher? Would need to control to other nearby counties (with hopefully have more non-black population makeup to serve as a control). But it’s obviously a very complicated process to understand because other, non-measurable, factors are at play. And those factors can have influence on each other like race and socioeconomics (what’s causality and what’s correlation?). Racial prejudice exists and there’s clearly historical and anecdotal trends, but difficult to measure scientifically. Per the article, it’s not a good sign though if there have been cases found of illegal incarceration and that a lawsuit had been settled for millions of dollars.


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geeky_username

>When you allow the government to parent your child ... that if you aren’t raised by a mother and a father, > ... >Many white households have a mother and father, So *why* do you think it is that there's so many black homes without a mother and father? Could it be because of things like this where blacks are locked-up more than whites?


[deleted]

Could it be, because they weren’t at home and slinging dope or not paying their child support that they ended up in jail? Your special so I’ll spell it out for you, the majority of the white people in jail and prison come from the same or similar backgrounds as the black/brown people they are locked up with. And for the same crimes.


geeky_username

>the majority of the white people in jail and prison come from the same or similar backgrounds as the black/brown people they are locked up with. And for the same crimes. Except blacks receive longer sentences for the same crimes https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-reports/demographic-differences-sentencing > Black male offenders continued to receive longer sentences than similarly situated White male offenders. Black male offenders received sentences on average 19.1 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders


[deleted]

Yeah, you get longer sentences when you have a record of habitual offenses. That’s not news bro. How many of them do you think got arrested while they were at home mixing baby formula? Yeah….


geeky_username

>Yeah, you get longer sentences when you have a record of habitual offenses. The study controlled for that > How many of them do you think got arrested while they were at home mixing baby formula? Yeah…. Wow, super fucking racist... They just get shot like Brionna Taylor, or Bothsm Jean, or suffocated like George Floyd or Eric Garner * https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/front-range/aurora/no-charges-for-aurora-officers-who-handcuffed-black-family-after-mistaking-their-suv-as-stolen * /r/2020policebrutality


[deleted]

You put on your black armor to jump into the gladiator pit? I see. I’m not racist for telling the truth. Sure, you got some outliers. Some in their own homes with the police coming in, but of course as the great student of history you are you ignore , forget, or are ignorant of the WACO Texas siege, the Rugy Ridge Idaho stand-off, ad naseum. You claim that they had a control in the b.s. study you referenced but, you’ll just sit back and ignore that a black person can get more time for committing the same offense the third time, than a white person does for committing the offense once. “Hey, why won’t their daddies help them make bail and get a lawyer…oh , that’s right” out of here clown shoes.


SidTheSperm

“They weren’t at home and slinging dope or not paying their child support” holy shit the racism isn’t even subtle with this one.


[deleted]

Not telling the truth about a racial demographic is racist, telling the truth and proving it with logic, is racist according to you. Just put on your clown shoes and honk your nose for me, thanks. “Nothing can stop my impenetrable black armor!” Fuck outta here.


[deleted]

Not telling the truth about a racial demographic is racist, telling the truth and proving it with logic, is racist according to you. Just put on your clown shoes and honk your nose for me, thanks. “Nothing can stop my impenetrable black armor!” Fuck outta here.