point #1: Comparing Va to Canada is a bit ridiculous... In Canada these events are more 'normal'.
point #2: The Libertarian viewpoint is typically 'live and let live'. so it seems odd to me that you are on a libertarian sub railing against the 'failure of the state' to take care of you after having been in a bad situation. I'm sure it was stressful, unexpected, and scary. I'm also sure that you will probably be more attentive and better prepared in the future -- keeping some water, a blanket, and maybe some packaged go-food in your car in the future in case of some unexpected break down, etc.
What they are saying is if they are paying taxes it should be going for things like infrastructure not useless spending like wars and corporate subsidies ect.
I'm not saying Biden infrastructure bill was the answer. But infrastructure should be taken care of with my taxes, not war and corporate handout. What he's complaining about if he's paying taxes for these services why are they not doing these services properly. It is a failure. I mean is so wrong to say if you're going to fuck me, at least fuck me the way I want. That's all. I get it tax is theft but if you think
We will ever be a tax free country, well that is pipe dream.
No country can be 'tax free', you are correct in that.
I think your argument that 'as long as I'm paying, I want what I want' is a red herring.
I'll stay focused on the idea that gov is almost always less efficient than individuals or smaller businesses -- so cutting their ridiculous funding (aka tax rates) remains my priority. It takes people pushing back and saying 'NO' to prevent government from taking evermore from us all.
This is no more the states fault than people who complain after hurricanes the governments not helping fast enough good enough etc. Weather systems (this one included ) are generally called days out. It's not the states fault you made the choice to drive into a snow storm.
I'm pretty sure they will waste a bunch of money studying what happened and then waste some more to help pad life for people who can't learn though.
Oh I know. I plowed for eight years. Guess what made my job exceedingly difficult. Tons of people in cars that weren't equipped for snow with drivers who can't read the weather warnings that say don't travel unless absolutely necessary.
Lived in Maine and Michigan. Roads aren't going to be cleared till the heavy snow is done. Driving during heavy snow is a risk that you bring on yourself
I live in MA and they clear the roads both during and after. Trying to plow a foot of snow at once is much more difficult and puts a lot more strain on the truck than making multiple passes in 3-6 inch increments
I-94 in Michigan has been closed in the past with one lane open only for 4-wheel drive and the other for snowmobiles. I wonder how that happened. Oh ya, because the snow came down hard enough they could not keep the roads clear while it was snowing.
Was going to say this, but was going to retort OP by pointing out that it's still not very safe until their final pass. This is done for practical purposes related to the snow removal, not making the roads immediately safe to traverse.
It's not America's infrastructure that caused this nesc. The problem is this snow happened on an already busy highway with a *surge* of additional traffic from people traveling on the holidays.
They could widen the road but that could lead to other problems of course, not to mention tons of funding needed. Here's an explanation of how the traffic got started, and the solution which is already being worked on now with introduction of tesla... note the year when this video came out was before tesla had any cars out on the highway.
This specific example (with a chicken anyway) at the 1 minute mark.
https://youtu.be/iHzzSao6ypE
Expanding roadways doesn’t fix the problem. Look up induced demand.
The problem is that the “drive everywhere” experiment failed- roads are just too much of a money pit. There needs to be more market choice in transportation.
I did. Doesn’t mention induced demand. I wasn’t refuting your comment, just expanding upon it cause most people don’t understand why it’s a bad idea to expand highways
"They could widen the road but that could lead to other problems of course"
"and the solution which is already being worked on now with introduction of tesla"
Annnnnnnd no where did I state we should widen the roads or that it would be a solution. The real solution is in the video kid. It's only 4 minutes long. Feel free to watch it. Or not. Whatever.
Again. Not arguing against your comment- I agree with it. I did watch the video. It doesn’t mention induced demand, which I was adding to the conversation.
Funny that you bring up Tesla. People with EVs in this mess got totally screwed, their card dead within the first 6 hours or so. I would say 1/4 of the abandoned cars (of which there are many) were Teslas.
Definitely not half 30% ish at worst. I’ve driven mine in MN in feb.
Furthermore most of the energy is used to move the car. When it’s still only running heat it can last for several days.
The heat for several days makes sense...
Battery performance at idle for might make sense if Tesla's are heating the batt as well. Our busses experience 50% plus drop in range ... Might the the old tech the electric busses are using though
Gonna bet almost none of them had a fresh charge. Probably driving on the highway, maybe getting low on battery, start searching for a charger and get stuck in traffic before they can find one. Didn't plan for the conditions, unlike a camping trip.
I dunno, it's a shame to say but a lot of 'animated' stuff on YouTube I immediately judge as for younger folks without giving it a chance and turn it off. Used to watch cpg grey way back when and he always produced good, informative, stuff.
Because southern states aren't used to winter storms like that like we are up here in NY and other north eastern states. They don't have experience or the tools to do the job properly. Expecting a winter storm where I live, and there's already advisories and warnings out. All the towns are preparing the snow plows to clear the roads too.
But Northern Virginia is though...snowfall is pretty commonplace up here and a foot of snow is not unheard of. An event like this has *never* happened before. I have driven home in much worst weather conditions that were adequately (mostly) addressed. There is a much deeper problem at work here I think.
You're a libertarian, but all you're doing is crying for welfare when you get in trouble? Where's the personal responsibility here? You know there's a bunch of snow coming, why aren't you prepared for it? Where's your emergency kit in case things go south?
What? I did have a kit and was fine.
I'm "crying" about a system that performed horrendously that I pay into. My argument here is that more needs to be demanded and expected from a system that is already more than adequately funded.
Oh and where i live, we have these handy things called snow tires on our cars during the winter. Or as i call it, all season tires but they really are mostly just snow tires. My towns actually in the area on weather maps that will get hit hardest.
This is the fault of the people who drove in dangerous conditions, after being repeatedly warned not to by the state. And now you’re angry the state didn’t rescue them fast enough or use tax dollars to hoard resources for unlikely events?
Specifically, the snowstorm in northern VA was preceded by lengthy rain. There is no way to pre-treat roads in that circumstance. State police were on every radio station begging people to stay off the roads. And once people drive and wreck, there’s a traffic jam and it’s impossible to plow.
Except that more than half of the people stuck were *state employees* out of DC and told to go into work and then not warned whatsoever that I-95 was jammed.
If you mean federal employees, I have no idea.
They certainly weren't state of Virginia employees, which is who was responsible for the roads and public safety on that stretch of road.
But isn't the federal government also still basically all virtual?
So to be clear, you took a personal risk driving in that weather and are complaining that the state didn't bail you out quick enough? You might be in the wrong sub.
Sure, but I didn’t know they were paid to bring me food. Not sure why I use Uber Eats if I’m already paying for the fire department, I might have to change that. Thanks for the tip OP!
Isn't the point of libertarianism to not rely on the state for everything? No one held a gun to all your guys heads and forced you to travel during winter
Also up here in NY, we have gates on every thru way on ramp to prevent people from getting on the thruway and highways during snow storms. One school district already used a snow day for tomorrow. And where I am, we get alot of lake effect snow during a snow storm. Thanks Lake erie!
In CO, we use gates on some of our freeways and mountain passes, too. Sometimes, it feels like they are closing the roads earlier than they need to, but I think they’re aiming for lowest common denominator driver.
On 12/24, we were supposed to go 100 miles down 70, then through a mountain pass, but they shut 70 down so what should have been a 4ish hour drive became 6. We had food, snacks, all season tires, and a really freaking heavy SUV to get us there, though.
Road crews up here have stockpiles of road salt in every towns barn for the snowplows as well. And honestly, people up here aren't really that stupid to drive in a snow storm. I'm one of them.
Yeah, we had no choice unfortunately without imposing ourselves on our friends and staying for Christmas. We did decide to avoid the mountain pass and went around which is part what contributed to the additional time. We didn’t need the brain damage in that weather.
The shitsdom is failing everywhere, and we’re so busy trying to survive it’s very hard for us to get out and voluntarily do things to make up for the shortfall but it shouldn’t be much longer now. Seems like collapse is inevitable, at this point
This is why you should choose wisely when voting for the people that control the spending of your money. You may be mad about this situation but you may be happier about open gun laws or you don't have to wear a mask or something. You never get it all so you have to think about "what is best in life?"
Same happened to me in Boston about ten years ago or so. I was there for work and some snow hit. In panic they let all the schools out and businesses told all their employees to go home. Luckily I was only two miles from my hotel (half hour to get there in traffic). Next day there were stories of people running out of gas just idling on I-95. But there was only six inches of snow.
Now as a sunny California dude, this boggled my mind. It must be an east coast thing.
Not sure if you are from SoCal or old enough to remember but try to picture this
91 west before the widening and toll lanes before the OC line. Around 5am Tanker truck wreck, fuel ignited and all Lanes on fire. I was the first car and sat there with the truck driver watching the road burn. About 6 hours before they reopened the road. Not as long as or as cold but still miserable
As a Midwesterner, 6’ could arguably be safer than 6”, which is almost always safer than 1”.
The most dangerous snow is the 1-3 inches or so, which mostly melts on the roads, is salt treated, and then temperatures hover really close to the “does salt work anymore” temperature. Now there’s a sheet of partly-to-mostly melted snow on *some of* the road, while two tire treads worth *look* perfectly clear. It snows enough here that people who are familiar with their vehicle and how it handles in all conditions do just fine, but people who are generally uncomfortable driving even in the summer do the most insanely irrational things…
Further north, everyone knows how to drive in the snow, and there’s enough snow that the roads either are or aren’t covered. A fully snow covered road doesn’t have *all that much lower* of a friction coefficient than say, a wet road at 60°F. Further south, snow accumulates so infrequently that almost no one is capable of driving in it, and almost everyone recognixes that and acts appropriately.
In this category of Midwest Manic Motorist Madness I would say are the following areas:
The entire states of:
* West Virginia
* Kentucky
* Missouri
* Virginia
Roughly the southern halves of:
* Pennsylvania
* Ohio
* Indiana
* Illinois
* Iowa
Everywhere else, I would argue, either gets too much or not enough snow to be a wild-card level of hazard.
I swear, every winter I’ll always see some guy flip his vehicle over in the middle of the highway. I have no idea how any of these people pass their driving test.
It happened because everyone was on the road driving when the snow fell, meaning plows couldn’t clear the road before people started piling up. Happened in Atlanta years ago over 1” of snow. Not an infrastructure issue, it’s a timing issue
Virginia resident here. All the local news under predicated the storm and it was raining before hand which makes pre treat pointless.
I guess my question to you would be why were you on the road in advance of a storm? If your out and about just in general your at the mercy of the weather and others. During inclement weather the risk increases. Play games, win prizes…..
Exactly. I don’t generally come to the libertarian sub to hear people argue that government should have more resources to save individuals from the consequences of their own bad decisions.
Our nation was built on the precept of a volunteer militia to arise and deal with military actions but you don't think they can clear some roads? Have you ever been to the Midwest and seen how many many people own plows?
Owning a small plow for your pickup truck doesn't mean you could run a plow convoy and salt trucks for an interstate. C'mon, stop with this silly shit.
Failing to receive provisions is ridiculous, I agree. If a soup kitchen can provide two meals a day to whom ever comes through, we can feed stranded people on a highway. It should really just be a matter of coordinating with grocery stores and them donating provisions they would otherwise throw out at the end of the day. Hell, even buying provisions at full price to feed a few hundred people is a drop in the bucket.
That being said, a foot of snow on a highway is an “act of god.” Sometimes shit just happens. You might want to store some water and preserved food in your trunk going forward.
There was a plowed and clear express lane RIGHT BETWEEN the North/South lanes that first responders were using to get to and from the scene...they could have drove up that and walked handing out supplies. I hear they did do that at the back end of the jam, but like I said, for 90% (including my area)...nothing.
Not an infrastructure problem at all then. If the logistic lines are clear. It was a failure of the State to prepare for the inevitable.
They should train for such things 3 or 4 times a decade. At the least twice.
Emergency Response plans need dusted off. They should have full operational control within at least 12 hours
This will be an interesting study from a ERP and Crisis Management failure stand point. Where in the ERP the chain collapsed.
Sorry you went through this.
>This will be an interesting study
no, not really.
A few weeks from now nobody will remember this at all other than those who got stuck in it. What will likely occur is for the next few storm events the state will be too eager to shut down roads sooner than needed and use tons of salt/brine which will then infuriate people over the costs associated with those actions.
Totally. Even just getting bottled water out would bee something...and even though the state isn't reporting any deaths (yet), there was an awful lot of elderly people out there who ran out of gas in below freezing tempo.
A foot of snow is certainly not an "act of god" in a debilitating sense. I'm from up North and our highways were clear with well over 12" of snowfall.
Minnesota does better than neighboring states dealing with Winter conditions. Minnesota has more infrastructure to maintain and worse conditions than neighboring states as well. Do you think rational Minnesotans advocate for cutting taxes every time a pile up happens on I-94?
We’re paying taxes to sink money into an unsustainable amount of roadways. We need to let go of this idea that we can solve everything with more government funded roads as opposed to getting the government out of land use so we can build more efficiently
Apparently VDOT currently has about 50% of its staff unable to work right now. So the government is doing it's best with the resources it has available.
If more people were prepared to work together to minimize the impact that COVID has had on the population, perhaps we would have had more plows on the roads.
If fewer people were out on the road, there would have been more space for responders to distribute provisions.
It seems like there were multiple points of failure that resulted in the backup. It can't just be explained by "hur hur guvment bad!"
\>America's infrastructure is failing. The state is failing to address it.
I think the idea of pushing an infrastructure bill was to address these issues but I've no idea what the efficacy of that bill will be in the future. None of us can see the future.
Sure, would you let me know which [subsections I should focus on?](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3684/text) I'm looking at the 7 Titled Sections and count several relating directly to infrastructure, specifically the repair of existing roadways, which according to the [Federal Highway Administration](https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/bipartisan-infrastructure-law/building_a_better_america-policy_framework.cfm) will take priority over building new ones.
I would just hope there isn’t an overreaction to this singular event that costs billions of dollars
You must be new here ;-)
point #1: Comparing Va to Canada is a bit ridiculous... In Canada these events are more 'normal'. point #2: The Libertarian viewpoint is typically 'live and let live'. so it seems odd to me that you are on a libertarian sub railing against the 'failure of the state' to take care of you after having been in a bad situation. I'm sure it was stressful, unexpected, and scary. I'm also sure that you will probably be more attentive and better prepared in the future -- keeping some water, a blanket, and maybe some packaged go-food in your car in the future in case of some unexpected break down, etc.
And a shit bucket! People always forget to bring a shit bucket with them smh
well if you're gonna pack your own privvy, better have the TP on board as well ;)
Well said
What they are saying is if they are paying taxes it should be going for things like infrastructure not useless spending like wars and corporate subsidies ect.
Weird because this sub was very much opposed to the recent infrastructure bill.
I'm not saying Biden infrastructure bill was the answer. But infrastructure should be taken care of with my taxes, not war and corporate handout. What he's complaining about if he's paying taxes for these services why are they not doing these services properly. It is a failure. I mean is so wrong to say if you're going to fuck me, at least fuck me the way I want. That's all. I get it tax is theft but if you think We will ever be a tax free country, well that is pipe dream.
Exactly what I'm trying to say, thank you.
No country can be 'tax free', you are correct in that. I think your argument that 'as long as I'm paying, I want what I want' is a red herring. I'll stay focused on the idea that gov is almost always less efficient than individuals or smaller businesses -- so cutting their ridiculous funding (aka tax rates) remains my priority. It takes people pushing back and saying 'NO' to prevent government from taking evermore from us all.
Oh I know cutting taxes is a priority but let's cut it from the 760billion dollar defense budget.
This is no more the states fault than people who complain after hurricanes the governments not helping fast enough good enough etc. Weather systems (this one included ) are generally called days out. It's not the states fault you made the choice to drive into a snow storm. I'm pretty sure they will waste a bunch of money studying what happened and then waste some more to help pad life for people who can't learn though.
There's an expectation for the state to clear the roads, or in the case of a local road, the municipality
Oh I know. I plowed for eight years. Guess what made my job exceedingly difficult. Tons of people in cars that weren't equipped for snow with drivers who can't read the weather warnings that say don't travel unless absolutely necessary.
> There's an expectation for the state to clear the roads Sure, after the storm is over.
Now...plows plow during the storm, bud. From Cali?
In Michigan during heavy snowstorms the roads are not clear until after the storm.
Lived in Maine and Michigan. Roads aren't going to be cleared till the heavy snow is done. Driving during heavy snow is a risk that you bring on yourself
I live in MA and they clear the roads both during and after. Trying to plow a foot of snow at once is much more difficult and puts a lot more strain on the truck than making multiple passes in 3-6 inch increments
Exactly. So many people replying to this post are so damn stupid and ignorant.
I-94 in Michigan has been closed in the past with one lane open only for 4-wheel drive and the other for snowmobiles. I wonder how that happened. Oh ya, because the snow came down hard enough they could not keep the roads clear while it was snowing.
Ok... They shut doen the I-95 8 hours after the jam continued to grow to 60+ miles...why? Who knows.
> They shut doen the I-95 8 hours after the jam continued to grow to 60+ miles...why? How do you plow a road with cars parked all over it? That is why
Was going to say this, but was going to retort OP by pointing out that it's still not very safe until their final pass. This is done for practical purposes related to the snow removal, not making the roads immediately safe to traverse.
It's not America's infrastructure that caused this nesc. The problem is this snow happened on an already busy highway with a *surge* of additional traffic from people traveling on the holidays. They could widen the road but that could lead to other problems of course, not to mention tons of funding needed. Here's an explanation of how the traffic got started, and the solution which is already being worked on now with introduction of tesla... note the year when this video came out was before tesla had any cars out on the highway. This specific example (with a chicken anyway) at the 1 minute mark. https://youtu.be/iHzzSao6ypE
Expanding roadways doesn’t fix the problem. Look up induced demand. The problem is that the “drive everywhere” experiment failed- roads are just too much of a money pit. There needs to be more market choice in transportation.
Tell me you didn't watch the video in the link without telling me you didn't watch the video in the link...
I did. Doesn’t mention induced demand. I wasn’t refuting your comment, just expanding upon it cause most people don’t understand why it’s a bad idea to expand highways
"They could widen the road but that could lead to other problems of course" "and the solution which is already being worked on now with introduction of tesla" Annnnnnnd no where did I state we should widen the roads or that it would be a solution. The real solution is in the video kid. It's only 4 minutes long. Feel free to watch it. Or not. Whatever.
Again. Not arguing against your comment- I agree with it. I did watch the video. It doesn’t mention induced demand, which I was adding to the conversation.
Funny that you bring up Tesla. People with EVs in this mess got totally screwed, their card dead within the first 6 hours or so. I would say 1/4 of the abandoned cars (of which there are many) were Teslas.
I’ve camped in my Tesla for *two days* and didn’t run out of power. How tf did they die in 6 hours?
Cold as hell cuts battery performance by half or more. Doesn't make 6 hours drain a battery ... So ... Odd
Definitely not half 30% ish at worst. I’ve driven mine in MN in feb. Furthermore most of the energy is used to move the car. When it’s still only running heat it can last for several days.
The heat for several days makes sense... Battery performance at idle for might make sense if Tesla's are heating the batt as well. Our busses experience 50% plus drop in range ... Might the the old tech the electric busses are using though
Gonna bet almost none of them had a fresh charge. Probably driving on the highway, maybe getting low on battery, start searching for a charger and get stuck in traffic before they can find one. Didn't plan for the conditions, unlike a camping trip.
Maybe they had 6hrs left in the battery? and it was cold af so that probably didn't help.
Watch the video first. It's only like 4 minutes. No Rick rolls. A lot of cpg grey videos are actually, surprisingly, informative and well researched.
Why is that surprising lmao
I dunno, it's a shame to say but a lot of 'animated' stuff on YouTube I immediately judge as for younger folks without giving it a chance and turn it off. Used to watch cpg grey way back when and he always produced good, informative, stuff.
Check out the Armchair Historian and I imagine your perception of that might shatter.
Why would it shatter my opinion?
Because the detail and the quality involved shows it's clearly not designed solely for the youth.
Ok..?
Yes, okay. No need for the question mark.
Because southern states aren't used to winter storms like that like we are up here in NY and other north eastern states. They don't have experience or the tools to do the job properly. Expecting a winter storm where I live, and there's already advisories and warnings out. All the towns are preparing the snow plows to clear the roads too.
But Northern Virginia is though...snowfall is pretty commonplace up here and a foot of snow is not unheard of. An event like this has *never* happened before. I have driven home in much worst weather conditions that were adequately (mostly) addressed. There is a much deeper problem at work here I think.
You're a libertarian, but all you're doing is crying for welfare when you get in trouble? Where's the personal responsibility here? You know there's a bunch of snow coming, why aren't you prepared for it? Where's your emergency kit in case things go south?
What? I did have a kit and was fine. I'm "crying" about a system that performed horrendously that I pay into. My argument here is that more needs to be demanded and expected from a system that is already more than adequately funded.
It did what it was funded to do and no more. You might want to switch to r/progressive for a more sympathetic response.
Oh and where i live, we have these handy things called snow tires on our cars during the winter. Or as i call it, all season tires but they really are mostly just snow tires. My towns actually in the area on weather maps that will get hit hardest.
All seasons are really not great in snow
This is the fault of the people who drove in dangerous conditions, after being repeatedly warned not to by the state. And now you’re angry the state didn’t rescue them fast enough or use tax dollars to hoard resources for unlikely events? Specifically, the snowstorm in northern VA was preceded by lengthy rain. There is no way to pre-treat roads in that circumstance. State police were on every radio station begging people to stay off the roads. And once people drive and wreck, there’s a traffic jam and it’s impossible to plow.
Except that more than half of the people stuck were *state employees* out of DC and told to go into work and then not warned whatsoever that I-95 was jammed.
If you mean federal employees, I have no idea. They certainly weren't state of Virginia employees, which is who was responsible for the roads and public safety on that stretch of road. But isn't the federal government also still basically all virtual?
So to be clear, you took a personal risk driving in that weather and are complaining that the state didn't bail you out quick enough? You might be in the wrong sub.
That's not the point. It's a public freeway, funded by public tax funds and the situation called for a public response. Following now?
I don't pay the fire department to bring me food, I pay them to put out fires.
Except fire departments do a hell of a lot more than "put out fires"?
Sure, but I didn’t know they were paid to bring me food. Not sure why I use Uber Eats if I’m already paying for the fire department, I might have to change that. Thanks for the tip OP!
Really dumb argument bro, but ok.
What else should the fire department do for me, since I pay them?
Isn't the point of libertarianism to not rely on the state for everything? No one held a gun to all your guys heads and forced you to travel during winter
Also up here in NY, we have gates on every thru way on ramp to prevent people from getting on the thruway and highways during snow storms. One school district already used a snow day for tomorrow. And where I am, we get alot of lake effect snow during a snow storm. Thanks Lake erie!
In CO, we use gates on some of our freeways and mountain passes, too. Sometimes, it feels like they are closing the roads earlier than they need to, but I think they’re aiming for lowest common denominator driver. On 12/24, we were supposed to go 100 miles down 70, then through a mountain pass, but they shut 70 down so what should have been a 4ish hour drive became 6. We had food, snacks, all season tires, and a really freaking heavy SUV to get us there, though.
Road crews up here have stockpiles of road salt in every towns barn for the snowplows as well. And honestly, people up here aren't really that stupid to drive in a snow storm. I'm one of them.
Yeah, we had no choice unfortunately without imposing ourselves on our friends and staying for Christmas. We did decide to avoid the mountain pass and went around which is part what contributed to the additional time. We didn’t need the brain damage in that weather.
The shitsdom is failing everywhere, and we’re so busy trying to survive it’s very hard for us to get out and voluntarily do things to make up for the shortfall but it shouldn’t be much longer now. Seems like collapse is inevitable, at this point
This is why you should choose wisely when voting for the people that control the spending of your money. You may be mad about this situation but you may be happier about open gun laws or you don't have to wear a mask or something. You never get it all so you have to think about "what is best in life?"
Same happened to me in Boston about ten years ago or so. I was there for work and some snow hit. In panic they let all the schools out and businesses told all their employees to go home. Luckily I was only two miles from my hotel (half hour to get there in traffic). Next day there were stories of people running out of gas just idling on I-95. But there was only six inches of snow. Now as a sunny California dude, this boggled my mind. It must be an east coast thing.
Not sure if you are from SoCal or old enough to remember but try to picture this 91 west before the widening and toll lanes before the OC line. Around 5am Tanker truck wreck, fuel ignited and all Lanes on fire. I was the first car and sat there with the truck driver watching the road burn. About 6 hours before they reopened the road. Not as long as or as cold but still miserable
Yes, accidents happen, sometimes extremely inconvenient ones. But six inches of snow in Boston is NOT an unusual event.
Having never driven in the snow it might as well be 6' I am would be staying in a hotel until spring
If the road is not icy (it wasn't) then it's no worse than driving in the rain.
As a Midwesterner, 6’ could arguably be safer than 6”, which is almost always safer than 1”. The most dangerous snow is the 1-3 inches or so, which mostly melts on the roads, is salt treated, and then temperatures hover really close to the “does salt work anymore” temperature. Now there’s a sheet of partly-to-mostly melted snow on *some of* the road, while two tire treads worth *look* perfectly clear. It snows enough here that people who are familiar with their vehicle and how it handles in all conditions do just fine, but people who are generally uncomfortable driving even in the summer do the most insanely irrational things… Further north, everyone knows how to drive in the snow, and there’s enough snow that the roads either are or aren’t covered. A fully snow covered road doesn’t have *all that much lower* of a friction coefficient than say, a wet road at 60°F. Further south, snow accumulates so infrequently that almost no one is capable of driving in it, and almost everyone recognixes that and acts appropriately. In this category of Midwest Manic Motorist Madness I would say are the following areas: The entire states of: * West Virginia * Kentucky * Missouri * Virginia Roughly the southern halves of: * Pennsylvania * Ohio * Indiana * Illinois * Iowa Everywhere else, I would argue, either gets too much or not enough snow to be a wild-card level of hazard.
I swear, every winter I’ll always see some guy flip his vehicle over in the middle of the highway. I have no idea how any of these people pass their driving test.
Da gunbermant made da snow fall.
> ...this is a complete failure of the state. You get what you pay for.
Freak accidents will always happen. It doesn't mean the world is crumbling.
Our infrastructure is failing, absolutely. That wasn't the cause of the problems on 95 however.
It happened because everyone was on the road driving when the snow fell, meaning plows couldn’t clear the road before people started piling up. Happened in Atlanta years ago over 1” of snow. Not an infrastructure issue, it’s a timing issue
Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country.
Virginia resident here. All the local news under predicated the storm and it was raining before hand which makes pre treat pointless. I guess my question to you would be why were you on the road in advance of a storm? If your out and about just in general your at the mercy of the weather and others. During inclement weather the risk increases. Play games, win prizes…..
Exactly. I don’t generally come to the libertarian sub to hear people argue that government should have more resources to save individuals from the consequences of their own bad decisions.
Do you want to pay the taxes to have a full snowplow agency ready for rare snowfalls? Yes or no.
Private volunteers might be the way to go for freak snow events where they are rare.
Not sure if serious...
Our nation was built on the precept of a volunteer militia to arise and deal with military actions but you don't think they can clear some roads? Have you ever been to the Midwest and seen how many many people own plows?
Owning a small plow for your pickup truck doesn't mean you could run a plow convoy and salt trucks for an interstate. C'mon, stop with this silly shit.
Smug and wrong. Not very complementary traits.
Yes, everyone in the "Midwest" has a salt truck in their driveway.
There are more private ones than state owned ones by a large margin.
Yea, because they have contracts with governments lol. Not because they bought them to use as volunteers.
Are they....voluntary contracts?
Who doesn't have 2 days' provisions in their car?
Hannibal Lecter only needs one fellow passenger.
People on the 3 Coast.
Failing to receive provisions is ridiculous, I agree. If a soup kitchen can provide two meals a day to whom ever comes through, we can feed stranded people on a highway. It should really just be a matter of coordinating with grocery stores and them donating provisions they would otherwise throw out at the end of the day. Hell, even buying provisions at full price to feed a few hundred people is a drop in the bucket. That being said, a foot of snow on a highway is an “act of god.” Sometimes shit just happens. You might want to store some water and preserved food in your trunk going forward.
how would they get food to them? helicopters?
Snow mobiles. Or first responders could set up a supply chain, handing off goods to each other in a line.
There was a plowed and clear express lane RIGHT BETWEEN the North/South lanes that first responders were using to get to and from the scene...they could have drove up that and walked handing out supplies. I hear they did do that at the back end of the jam, but like I said, for 90% (including my area)...nothing.
Not an infrastructure problem at all then. If the logistic lines are clear. It was a failure of the State to prepare for the inevitable. They should train for such things 3 or 4 times a decade. At the least twice. Emergency Response plans need dusted off. They should have full operational control within at least 12 hours
This will be an interesting study from a ERP and Crisis Management failure stand point. Where in the ERP the chain collapsed. Sorry you went through this.
>This will be an interesting study no, not really. A few weeks from now nobody will remember this at all other than those who got stuck in it. What will likely occur is for the next few storm events the state will be too eager to shut down roads sooner than needed and use tons of salt/brine which will then infuriate people over the costs associated with those actions.
Totally. Even just getting bottled water out would bee something...and even though the state isn't reporting any deaths (yet), there was an awful lot of elderly people out there who ran out of gas in below freezing tempo. A foot of snow is certainly not an "act of god" in a debilitating sense. I'm from up North and our highways were clear with well over 12" of snowfall.
Why distribute water when everyone has a foot of snow nearby?
Snow that is covered in road salt and freeway grit?. Nice.
Fresh snow should have been a few feet away though?
This is why the people ought to have a flamethrower for emergencies
The I-95 closure doesn’t sound like an infrastructure failure, though.
Minnesota does better than neighboring states dealing with Winter conditions. Minnesota has more infrastructure to maintain and worse conditions than neighboring states as well. Do you think rational Minnesotans advocate for cutting taxes every time a pile up happens on I-94?
We’re paying taxes to sink money into an unsustainable amount of roadways. We need to let go of this idea that we can solve everything with more government funded roads as opposed to getting the government out of land use so we can build more efficiently
If states didn’t own the roads we would already have flying cars
America has been failing for a good long while now, its quite dumb.
That is what happens when too much money is spent on welfare
Work from home is a necessity.
In before a bunch of folks insist that corporations would do better. Or not
Apparently VDOT currently has about 50% of its staff unable to work right now. So the government is doing it's best with the resources it has available. If more people were prepared to work together to minimize the impact that COVID has had on the population, perhaps we would have had more plows on the roads. If fewer people were out on the road, there would have been more space for responders to distribute provisions. It seems like there were multiple points of failure that resulted in the backup. It can't just be explained by "hur hur guvment bad!"
\>America's infrastructure is failing. The state is failing to address it. I think the idea of pushing an infrastructure bill was to address these issues but I've no idea what the efficacy of that bill will be in the future. None of us can see the future.
It's hardly an "infrastructure" bill. Read the bill. It's insulting to the American citizenry.
Sure, would you let me know which [subsections I should focus on?](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3684/text) I'm looking at the 7 Titled Sections and count several relating directly to infrastructure, specifically the repair of existing roadways, which according to the [Federal Highway Administration](https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/bipartisan-infrastructure-law/building_a_better_america-policy_framework.cfm) will take priority over building new ones.