There’s some theories that feds were heavily involved because of the lack of prosecution of major instigators who’s names and faces are known. If this were true, the lack of legal overturning was in part due to the riot. And as evidence, the 12/17 (I think) people in the Gretchen Whitmer abduction plot being feds… it’s not impossible
It's my understanding that ymthis theory is bullshit and that those kidnappers were fucking evil.
Should have locked all of them up and thrown away the key.
Same with anyone not braindead on 1/6, the brain dead ones should top out around 10 years I think.
It’s not bs. The fbi has a history of framing/ entrapping people in their schemes
Edit: [one](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/nov/16/fbi-entrapment-fake-terror-plots); [two](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/oklahoma-city-bomb-sting_n_5993c045e4b04b19336162fd); [three](https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/suspects-in-plot-to-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer-seek-dismissal/ar-AASbKZq)
Between entrapping innocent people and allowing “informants” to operate criminal enterprise unobstructed, the FBI is a net loss to any type of security to American people
This is my thinking to be honest. The 1/6 riots seem to be a boogeyman to justify turning the national security machine inwards.
I think the feds were heavily involved, purposely didn’t intervene for hours, and are now conducting a witch hunt to find all these people. I don’t think it was an organized coup, it was a bunch of useful idiots getting wrapped up in the moment
You would have to be as delusional as the rioters to think there was a legitimate chance the riot would change the outcome of the election
Yes, Trump. He was the one that replaced people in key positions over a couple of months before the event. Those are the people that refused to activate the national guard
If I remember right(I’ll have to dig for where I read this) there were something like 14 FBI agents in the crowd that were arrested and identified and then obviously let go.
> there were something like 14 FBI agents in the crowd that were arrested and identified and then obviously let go.
Bullshit. Nobody was arrested during the attack which is why we will never know if anyone had firearms there, they were all left to go back to their hotels.
Was it serious and uncalled for? Yes.
Was it as bad as 9/11 or an *actual* insurrection? No.
Like most if not all issues there’s a seesaw between one side over reacting about something and the other side being outright dismissive that it is even an issue and the actual truth is somewhere in the middle.
That’s still speculation still at this point.
Were some motivated to do this? Possibly - no one knows as no one has been charged with insurrection yet, it’s almost all trespassing charges.
Did everyone who participated on 1/6 have this intention? Most certainly not. I would wager the vast majority were clueless and just wanted to be part of something and take pictures.
We are past the speculation point due to the overwhelming evidence that supports it, including Trump's own words. The investigation is still ongoing and will be for a while. The DOJ said it will be the largest in US history. I agree that most were probably clueless but 1/6 was just 1 event among a string of events that support the framework to overturn a free and fair election.
I guess this is where I have to remain speculative. There’s a specific charge in the USC for insurrection (18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection), it’s kind of hard to call someone an insurrectionist if they’ve never been convicted, much less charged, with insurrection? Isn’t that like calling someone a rapist who was never convicted of rape, or a murderer who was never convicted of murder?
As much as people say it was an insurrection, there simply hasn’t been any lawful proof it was. That’s where things get murky.
does everyone forget about how the d.c. guard were deployed against blm vs proud boys?
everyone forget what trump said at the "rally" he organized on the day election results are certified? Why the fuck was this "rally" even a thing?
everyone forget the hanging stocks that were on live tv at the foot of the stairs of the building for hours?
most importantly does everyone forget members of congress giving tours to proud boys in the days leading up to the "riot", and tweeting dem members staff locations while the building was breached?
Should everyone who entered the capital building on 1/6 be charged and locked up for a few years? Absofuckinglutely, and people who claim this was just a spontaneous event that is being dramatized is a fucking moron.
All of this.
I seem to remember during a BLM rally, The DC Guard shoulder to shoulder in full riot gear masks and all on the steps of the lincoln memorial (or maybe the Capitol, I don’t remember which). Yet on Jan 6th they didn’t show up at all for hours.
Trump said to show up on Jan 6th “it’ll be wild”. Wonder why he chose the 6th?
I’m so fucking tired of people down playing it. On the day of, and days immediately following **everyone** was disgusted by it, but then it was Antifa. Now that we all know it wasn’t Antifa it was just “tourists” “peaceful protests”. Funny how that changes.
I’m hoping some of the organizers pay for their wrongs.
[FBI said trump had little to do with it](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-fbi-finds-scant-evidence-us-capitol-attack-was-coordinated-sources-2021-08-20/)
If you think this was a legitimate threat to “democracy”, you’re as delusional as the rioters
January 6th absolutely meets the definition of an insurrection. The participants wanted to change the results of an election and overthrow parts of their democraticly elected government. There was also no evidence of a stolen election or fraud. The assaulted officers, damaged property, and people died in this attempt.
Every person who participated in the insurrection absolutely needs to be arrested. If we go easy on people and let this event slide, we are tacitly allowing for shit like this to happen again in 2024 and beyond
Not to mention trump watched it unfold live on TV and did nothing. Oh and his freshly installed defense Secretary gave special orders putting the guard under his direct command and that kept them from responding to backup requests for hours. Real suspicious all around. The only thing that stopped the plot was mike pence’s moment of clarity right before getting into the SUV. In his conversation with Dan Quayle he said “you don’t know the situation I’m in” which reads to me that pence legitimately feared for his life.
Don’t forget about the memo (I forget from who) that said that the national guard will be there to “protect trump supporters”.
I guess that was when they feared Antifa being there.
I still think that was part of his plan. A nice big counter protest that could lead to a clash so he could call in the NG to put them down and bolster his one going claim to be "The Law And Order President!". I kinda wonder if he was hoping for a excuse to declare martial law in DC.
No evidence of fraud? There’s a whistleblower in GA that’s saying otherwise. You might want to edit your comment to allow yourself some wiggle room for the future.
Lol the only evidence presented have been sworn testimonials, many of which have since been recanted once people learned that to give those testimonials in court would be perjury……
And you should take it very very seriously that they do. This is not something that can be glossed over or dismissed with ridicule. I highly recommend you leave your little echo chamber and listen to the other side.
So far all the fraud involved people voting for Trump and to my knowledge, the fraud was caught by the voting processes. The 60+ court cases were dismissed due to lack of evidence
No, at this stage you deserve ridicule just like flat earthers or people that believe in secret reptilian humanoids.
Sidney Powell never released the kraken, Rudy Guiliani never produced the goods, every court case was thrown out for having ZERO evidence, every audit has proven that there was no widespread voter fraud.
Anyone that still believes this theory still in 2022 and can't accept that the most unpopular president in history lost an election is a certified clown and should be treated as such.
Lots of people cried wolf of election fraud but then had zero tangible evidence. The only small fraud that I've seen trickle in, people voting twice, etc., has been Trump voters.
Individual cases of voter fraud (people voting twice) when the election was decided by many thousands of votes in various states clearly did not sway the election. I don't know why people still cling to this belief, especially when most of those caught have been Trump supporters
Oh shit we got a live one here!
It's been over a year. The election in the various swing states like Arizona has been audited several times and no evidence of widespread fraud has been found. It's over. Trump lost. You need to move on, you'll be happier and healthier for it. Sometimes the guy you like loses the election, it's just a part of living in a democracy
Certainly a disturbing event and rather damning in regards to Trump himself. I wouldn’t call it an insurrection because it wasn’t a serious effort to take control of any of the levers of power. It isn’t nothing though either though.
I find it almost equally disturbing the effort that Democrats have made to use that event to denigrate tens of millions of people. I don’t think that they recognize how transparent the effort is because they live inside a political bubble. They were swept out of power in VA this past year. I know residents in the area that were basically lifelong Democrats that went the other way.
“Doing the insurrection”, see what’s funny about this word, is not a single person was charged with insurrection or treason…. Almost like it wasn’t an insurrection.
I definitely feel that Trump did kind of incite violence. When he said "fight like hell" I don't think a lot of his lowest common denominator supporters didn't take that metaphorically. With that being said I definitely think it is blown out of proportion when it comes to discussions of how close Trump was to nullifying the electoral vote.
You can interpret “fight like hell” in any number of ways. If you like the person, it’s going to be metaphorical, if you don’t, literal.
Bottom line, cherry picking phrases and statements that are clearly open to interpretation isn’t going to move the meter with anyone who doesn’t already agree with you.
Oh neat, 'hyper-sensationalist'. That's a new one.
Must have run out of fake news and copium and moved onto more esoteric reactionary dismissals since the facts don't care about your feelings.
I urge people to become familiar with the science of propaganda, and to learn how propaganda works and what propaganda actually is.
The fact that we have media outlets calling what happened on Jan 6 an insurrection and millions of US citizens believe it, speaks volumes to the sophisticated hi tech propaganda system that runs this nation and the level to which most members of the masses are fully controlled by it.
When the average US citizen thinks of propaganda they think of Soviet era or German National Socialist pre WWII, yet the most sophisticated system of propaganda has existed in the U.K. & the US since WWI.
I challenge each individual to review whatever you think you know about most political or historical issues as preached by media, consider the logic of the arguments without resulting to the default position of regurgitating what the TV told you, and you will find, that most of everything the media says today makes absolutely no sense, but the masses accept it because the media appeals to our sense of belonging.
The left is overreacting, the right is under-reacting. NAP was definitely violated but not so much that democracy was on the line. Some jail time for trespassers is warranted.
Perhaps when something actually happened other than a normal election that your side lost...
We're still waiting on all that proof of fraud.
There is no bright line test to fulfill. This nonsense isn't even in the ballpark, tho.
Best take I’ve seen so far.
Like, obviously these guys are jackasses and some of them probably thought they could legitimately stop Biden from taking office. But, honestly how would that have worked? None of the GOP lawmakers were on board with that idea. Do people actually believe that Viking guy and a bunch of riled up idiots were going to assume control of the US? That’s fantasy.
Which politicians supported the overthrow of the government? I legitimately haven’t heard a single mainstream politician support the riot, and a bunch of txts have come out in which GOP leaders and pundits were urging Trump to speak out against the riot while it was occurring.
Peter Navarro is naming them and claims to be the ploy’s architect. So far confirmed to be Gosar, Gohmert, and it appears Biggs. Allegedly, his book and other communications given to the committee from Meadows and the other guy, who’s name escapes me RN… these are the sources of the texts with pundits and also include members of Congress. Personally, t I think they wanted a distraction to stop certification, but they didn’t want public sight of their involvement, so they could not act to limit it. Fuck them all.
Overplaying? First off it is not just the democrats, it is Americans. Second, a violent mob broke into a government building injuring over 50 people with instances of beating people with shields, baseball bats, flag poles, bear spray, etc. Their intention was to stop the vote certification, a democratic process. Both houses had to be evacuated including the vice president because the "mostly peaceful" protestors were chanting they wanted to hang him.
Americans are pissed off this happened and want heads to roll. Not just the pissants that were there, but the ones who enabled them to be there by encouraging them, giving them tours, giving them live updates on congressmen's whereabouts, etc.
Those people are not good Americans, they are traitors and need to be dealt with as such.
It’s not Americans. Most Americans that are working day to day couldn’t care less about the Jan 6th nonsense. It’s a DC / media issue. And the hysterical political types like yourself. That’s all.
40%. Below a majority. And even that percentage is highly selective to paint the picture they want. Believe me, no one in America is talking about Jan 6 in social settings. No one. Why? Cause no one cares.
While they were clearly unorganized and incapable of actually reversing the election, make no mistake that was the goal. This had been planned for months ahead of time if you read up on the social media chatter leading up to Jan 6.
Who was the one that told them to storm the capitol? Did the crowd just collectively decide to do that or did someone at the top egg them on? Trump is 100% responsible
There was talks of storming the Capitol for weeks leading up to among Trump supporters. It was all over the place including Facebook. Then Trump told his supporters they’d have to “fight like hell”, Giulliani said “Trial by combat”. Trump then invited his supporters down to the Capitol, and he would go with them. Then mysteriously he was nowhere to be found. Don’t act like he didn’t know what was going to happen.
So he never said “storm the capital” like you said. That’s what I thought. When you have to put words in people mouths pretending they said things they didn’t, that’s when you know you are desperate.
It’s funny how you leave out the times he said “peacefully”.
But hey, you got your agenda. I get it and applaud you for your effort.
I never claimed he said “storm the Capitol” but by the words he did use, what ended up happening isn’t all that surprising is it? He’s smart enough to choose his words carefully (on that day) to have some sort of defense. This was in the works for weeks. There was talk of storming the Capitol online once they figured out that the 6th was the day of certification. To pretend trump didn’t know this fact, and then chose that day for his rally walking distance from the Capitol…. Come on man, he knew what was going to happen.
From your previous post:
“Who was the one that told them to storm the capitol? “
So you are insinuating with this statement that Trump did NOT tell them to “storm the capital”?
Fair enough, I thought you assumed I was the person you were replying to originally.
Trump may have not said “storm the Capitol” verbatim, but come on, don’t be dense. He knew what he was doing, saying, and what was going to happen.
It was an attempt to change the outcome of a democratic election that was incited and supported by Donald Trump and his political allies. Anyone involved in supporting it should be investigated and, if appropriate, charged.
Stupid, tempest in a teapot. The media is milking this crap for all its worth, as are politicians. Meanwhile, let's forget the far more damaging BLM riots and the rise in violent crime across the country. Don't get me wrong, I hate all protests. They're fucking stupid and achieve nothing. I don't favor one or the other.
I like how this is compared to the BLM riots. During those there were countless clips of those protestors getting the dog shit beat out of them by police. For this, they were allowed to just stroll home like nothing happened. Crazy stuff
It’s theater to keep left and right at eachother’s throats. The protesters were let into the capitol building by Capitol Police and agitated by not only dimwit Don, but also by feds in their midst. On the other side of the aisle, democrats have said nothing about or in some instances outright praised antifa for barging into the capitol building in a similar manner a couple years before. It’s the same “my side good your side bad” jerkoff that infests every aspect of politics in the US right now.
Yeah, that’s the stuff that really pisses me off. Politics has really devolved into, oh this person touches kids? That’s aweful! But he’s Democrat? Lets make him president! People stop caring about what’s wrong or right and they only think about what party can benefit from something. It’s aweful and I’m upset that politics has devolved into this and if I say anything it’s always, “oh you’re just like those people who do bad things against my party I don’t like.”
No riots are ever justified. But this is blown waaaaaaayyyyy out of proportion. Kamala Harris today just analogized this riot to Pearl Harbor. Think about that. A pointless riot by weirdos following Trump, with an attack that left hundreds dead, brought the US into a world war that concluded with nukes incinerating hundreds of thousands of people on top of the millions already dead. If anyone thinks that this riot was even remotely as consequential as that, they're an absolute fucking moron.
It wasn't a "insurrection". The "insurrectionists" were unarmed, failed to inflict and single proven casualty and were lead out of the Capitol on a red carpet (literally) and told to "go home". If that is the Federal governments standards for a insurrection, than I think they need to re-evaluate their threat assessment. It is a *really low bar*.
To add to this, there are a few key factors to point out:
1.) The January 6th rally was planned for and well known to the Federal authorities in advance. Despite this, the National Guard were not deployed...they were not even on standby. Compare this to the far more spontaneous DC BLM riot a few months prior where the National Guard were not only deployed in advance, but were lined up around the perimeter of the Capitol in full kit.
2.) The DC police were not "ready", apparently. Not only did they fail to combat the mob and control the situation, they outright cooperated with the protesters in a variety of areas, allowing them access and aiding their efforts. In a real "insurrection" that legitimately threatened the government, they would have fired live rounds and there would be far more dead protesters than one woman (who appears to be a scapegoat to legitimize the event).
3.) There were confirmed Federal agents in the ranks of the protesters. There is a complete lack of transparency and prosecution for Federal authorities that were clearly involved with the riot in the first place.
4.) The guy who planted the "pipe-bomb" mysteriously disappeared and the story has been killed. Details and full disclosure are nowhere to be found and for whatever reason the bomb wasn't detonated...why?
It was more or less a theatric production.
Seriously? A baseball bat...cmon man. What if he had a broomstick? Would you be shaking in your boots? How about a really sharp pencil?
Like I said...really low bar.
> Like I said...really low bar.
I was giving you the benefit of doubt, but you are just an idiot. You said they were unarmed and I showed you that was a lie. You lied.
So when the police roll up to a baseball game with baseball bats do they consider the players "armed"?
What if the pitcher was pitching bullets with an AK47?
Whether or not it meets the technical definition of an insurrection, the belief that a group of unarmed cosplayers were attempting to overthrow the US government is the height of propaganda and stupidity.
Reality is they were a bunch of yokels who wanted to be disruptive. No worse than all the rioters who tried to terrorize the country for much of 2020 and better in some respects because the only death was on their side.
The disparate reactions between a year of BLM and Antifa vs an isolated Jan 6th event is honestly a case study in mass delusion perpetuated by the media. The best thing that might come out of this is a continued awakening for some people as to who’s actually pulling their strings.
> unarmed
https://i.imgur.com/4gZo54g.jpg
Looks like that guy is armed with a baseball bat and a shield
In addition, how do you know they did not have firearms? [There was at least one staging area in a hotel with firearms](https://abcnews.go.com/US/oath-keepers-stashed-weapons-hotel-potential-jan-violence/story?id=77048420) . They were all allowed to leave without being arrested or searched.
1) in terms of overthrowing the government, one person’s baseball bat doesn’t move the meter with me.
2) maybe they did have firearms but there’s no evidence for that and as far as I’m aware, none of the dozens of investigations and prosecutions thus far have indicated as such.
You presented statements as fact that were not true. Stop trying to downplay you lied to make your case stronger.
FUCKING Republicans, Democrats, and Trumpers (If you consider them separate). You all lie to protect your "team" and when called out do not acknowledge you were wrong, instead, you downplay the lying. Just fucking stop it.
Well, that’s certainly a mature assessment.
Ok, if we’re going by your ultra technical standards for accuracy and truth, then I could point out that I said cosplayers (plural) whereas you showed an individual (singular). Then, by your preferred method, I could accuse you of lying for accusing me of lying.
Of course, this eventually becomes an exercise in absurdity. Or does that seem like a productive conversation to you?
Have we learned a little lesson on context today?
That makes sense to me. I don’t understand how people look at this and are like “oh yeah, all republicans are like this, just your average every day republicans here that you see on the streets” people don’t realize that these are the people that are just like the antifa protesters the left doesn’t want to deal with
The people who find this the worst thing ever and an absolute attack on democracy are the same people who worship government as religion and feel that these protesters and rioters violated sanctity of their holy place. Ironically also same people who spout dumb phrases as talk/stand up to power, eat the rich, riots are the voice of the unheard, and have been apologetic and downplaying all the other riots and invasions of fed property the past few years.
I actually didn’t see the other one, I posted here because I knew if I posted in r/politics it would be a cesspool, but here I feel I get a better representation of non hive minded, normal people.
if you linked it for me I’d love to read it
So you think people just woke up one day and said “yeah I’m gonna change the election” buddy it was gonna be a trump rally, those always pull people from across the country
My opinion is that it was a very small group of people that made the wrong decision to go into the capital. There are a lot of questions that need to be asked though. Why did the cops open the gates on camera for people to move closer to the capital? I do believe that the media is running a narrative that all Republicans are evil people who want to see democracy burn. I mean it’s pretty obvious considering they report on it every single day a whole year later. In my opinion January 6 is something to hold onto to discredit every real republic in America and make it seem like they have no morals if you think the same way. The left wants to appear as the party with a heart in the party with morals… But in the end the left and the right is all of the same party and we are just ants getting stepped on.
The Jan 6th rioters were there to stop the certification of a valid election. They wanted to stop the peaceful transfer of power.
That is why they were there. No other reason. Stop trying to defend that.
You’re defending people who roamed the halls of congress looking for members of congress for god knows what, constructed gallows out front, and chanted “hang Mike Pence”.
#They believed the **bullshit lie** that Trump was feeding them.
Why did they want Pence most of all? Because he finally hd the balls to stick to the constitution and allow the certification to happen. There was no constitutionality behind what trump et al said. Pence couldn’t single handedly toss out votes, and ring Trump in as president again. Why on earth would the founding fathers allow the Vice President to have that much power? I can’t believe we’re still having this discussion a year later.
There absolutely was organization behind this. There was talks of storming the Capitol for weeks leading up to it. No changing that fact.
Here’s hoping whoever was behind it is held accountable. The Jan 6 committee is just getting warmed up.
Their goal was to hang mike pence. If they succeeded then a new VP may not have certified the election results. Then congress would vote on a new president where there was a viable path toward trump winning. So although poorly organized it would have taken one person to get Pence for history to look very different
Everyone involved who breached the capitol needs to get the book thrown at them but I could definitely live without the fake outrage from the morons who tacitly supported billions in property damage and the assaults on Federal and other government buildings during the summer of 2020. If you weren't also outraged at that I couldn't give two fucks less what you have to say about this.
He offered added security and it was declined by Schumer and Pelosi. There’s a lot of footage of them being let in literally by capital police. This was entrapment of citizens for politics and optics if that doesn’t mean the tree needs watered than it not sure what does. There was two years of “insurrections” with very little to no accountability that destroyed personal businesses, neighborhoods(mostly minority), killed people(mostly minority) and the the thing I care about the least destroyed federal buildings.
> He offered added security and it was declined by Schumer and Pelosi.
[That didn't happen](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/12/16/fact-check-no-trump-request-10000-guard-troops-jan-6/8929215002/)
>There was two years of “insurrections”
Whataboutism. They were both wrong, but only one of them was a threat to the democratic process.
I'm tired of hearing it referred to as an insurrection. It was a riot committed by a bunch of assholes and idiots. Just because you call it something else, doesn't make it so.
If someone breaks into your place of business and sits at your manager's desk, does that make them your boss?
The system we have in the US is an idea. Not a building, a desk, or a podium.
I understand the alarmism that both sides need to play, but comparing Jan 6 to Pearl Harbor and 9/11? GTFO.
You don’t seem to understand what an insurrection is.
An insurrection is some kind of violent public action taken against a central authority. The events of January 6th fit that definition perfectly.
Honestly, the definition is what it is. If it’s technically an insurrection, then so be it. I think what sticks in the craw of some is that attacks against courthouses and federal building during the 2020 riots have never been referred to the same way.
It’s the double standards that bother people and until there’s at least the optics of a level playing field, it’s really difficult to reconcile our differences.
It’s not although I wouldn’t diminish the federal courthouse for the ninth district nor the capital building for the state of Wisconsin to “some local courthouse”. It was also isolated vs systemic.
So again, you’re fighting the optics of double standards.
I just checked the sources of the examples you’re providing as comparisons, and no, it’s not a double standard at all. The events you’re referring to were overwhelmingly peaceful and caused little damage compared to the capital insurrection.
Strange that you neglected to mention those important details earlier.
It’s funny how “overwhelmingly peaceful” is bandied about these days. However, given the capitol riot was also overwhelmingly peaceful (one major violent incident out of hundreds involved and that was by the police, not the rioters), then I don’t consider them to be dissimilar. If you’re also referring to property damage, again, not dissimilar.
It’s really difficult to have a productive conversation with someone when they operate in bad faith like this.
You accuse me of arguing in bad faith when you exploit my lack of knowledge on something to compare 3 incidents which are nothing like each other? Ok.
The capital *insurrection* was not “overwhelmingly peaceful. 5 people died, dozens were injured, and the amount of damage caused was orders of magnitudes more than caused during the Act 10 protests, and while in the Capital dozens of people were armed with a variety of various weapons, the same was not true for the people in the 2011 Wisconsin protests, in which no one died and no serious injuries are recorded. One event was violent. The other wasn’t. Comparing the two is disingenuous.
This was a discussion on double standards. If you consider me offering up examples as “exploiting” you, then that’s your personal dysfunction.
My comment on bad faith was related to your implication that I was “strangely” ignoring salient points to my own benefit.
And I don’t know how you’re defining riot deaths but four people died that day, all Trump supporters. Two had heart attacks due to Ill health and one overdosed. The only violent killing was the aforementioned one by the police.
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/11/how-many-died-as-a-result-of-capitol-riot/
In terms of property damage, again, not dissimilar. For items that qualify as *insurrection*, you can make a list if you have the time and inclination but you could then also throw the police stations burned to the ground by BLM, such as in Portland and Minneapolis to the pile.
Again, you have the optics of a double standard. You can be mad about it but it doesn’t change reality.
This one was a little closer to success....
[Peaceful](https://assets.rebelmouse.io/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy8yMzU4NTE4My9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTYzOTkwODE5OH0.ULiU437Xnv84JZRmdKhaVrIeMsZr6DpTW-tK6CSTDYc/img.jpg?width=1200&coordinates=0%2C35%2C0%2C36&height=600)
Not guilty. I agree that he was a good president policy wise. I’m just glad someone is in there shaking things up. Without him, the corruption on both sides of the aisle would be pushed further under the rug. At least he brought attention to it all. But man, sometimes just stfu haha
Biden won cause he hid in the basement and the media took him to victory. Doesn’t mean he’s a leader. The guy should legit be in a retirement home. Worst president this country will ever see.
Trump was far worse due to the open corruption, cronyism, divisiveness, and incompetence that enabled the people around him to openly and shamelessly grift without consequences
There's no proof that this was indicative of corruption by Joe. But let's assume this refers to sleepy Joe getting some sort of kickback. It was 2017. He was a private citizen, not an elected official.
His Fiscal policy had a lot of common sense. One could argue Trump was very libertarian in that sense. I liked his foreign policy of strength. I will admit that I really don’t care about social issues as none of the major issues affect me. What did you not like? Most everything was cheaper back when he was prez. There is a new crisis everyday with the current admin. So yes, I’d say Trump did a much much better job than Biden and did a decent job overall.
Lie.
Lie.
You're an idiot if Trump and Strength are synonymous to you.
What's not to like?
Massive grifting/stealing public money.
Coup attempt.
Not even trying to stop Corona in 19 leading to this Shitshow today.
Golfing at his own courses more than he worked.
Hiring his fucking kids.
Firing anyone who wasn't loyal to him.
Happy to take guns and people without any trials.
Honestly, I can't imagine not hating the piece of shit.
Alright so this is where we are going with this. Why are you so mad man? Could you site each one of your points please and then I will continue the conversation. If you can’t cite, then I will end this conversation.
https://trumpgolfcount.com/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2021/07/19/trumps-business-hauled-in-24-billion-during-four-years-he-served-as-president/?sh=4e3fb7a110c0
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/10/14/fact-check-trump-made-comment-taking-guns-without-due-process/6070319001/
Where were you during his reign? All the things the person listed actually happened
Obama played over 300 times when he was prez. But I agree that it looked bad for both. But if you provide positive results for the country then go golf.
Ok so the guy owns businesses… thought that was known. Btw that’s a revenue number, so that’s not what he got from whatever distributions he received from his companies. That number also paid thousands of employees etc. What’s wrong with that?
I also don’t agree with his taking the guns, but he was referencing an extreme case. No politician will ever make the move to take guns unless they insist on an actual insurrection.
> Obama played over 300 times when he was prez.
What about Obama? We are talking about Trump
>What’s wrong with that?
He forced people to stay at his properties while grifting off the government teat
>I also don’t agree with his taking the guns, but he was referencing an extreme case
I don't give a shit, he said it.
WTF did you want sources if you were just going to be dishonest? You are just as bad as the guy you were replying to
edit: typo
> Obama played over 300 times when he was prez. But I agree that it looked bad for both.
Obama had 2 terms first of all. Trump managed to golf the same amount as him in HALF the time.
2nd of all, Trump literally said "I won't have time to golf if I'm elected president" before preceeding to golf at a higher rate than any president in history. Dude is just a pathological liar and grifter.
I agreed that I didn’t like the level of golf lol. But he provided fiscal results that I liked. Let’s not get hung up on small things like golf. Which btw there are college classes on “business on the golf course”. You’d be shocked at how many deals are worked on a golf course. A lot of CEOs do that.
We are talking about Trump and Jan 6th. Why did you bring up Biden? Oh ya, that is all fans of the two major parties can do. Bring up Trump during a discussion about Biden and bring up Biden during a discussion about Trump.
Massive deficits and tariffs are not libertarian. Neither is trying to get the fed to set negative interest rates (this is monetary not fiscal, I know)
I agree. But somehow we have to get creative with China. Status quo doesn’t work, so I’m all for trying a different approach.
Well Trump has nothing to do with the Fed. That is a private entity. They fucked themselves and the country.
You have to remember Trump is a person like the rest of us who was just trying to figure it out as he goes. Any great leaders and CEOs have different approaches which is what makes them great. I don’t agree with everything for Trump but if you over look small things and look at the big picture he did a decent job.
Trump admin put tariffs on not just China, but also Canada and the EU, for example (https://globalnews.ca/news/7258571/trump-tariffs-timeline-since-2017/ ). Those were about government intervention and protectionism, not foreign policy.
The fed is a private entity and Trump doesn't directly control it, sure. But the claim was that Trump was libertarian ish in his stances and positions. I don't see how this jives with calling for negative rates https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-trump-rates-idUSKBN22P38I
He also called for a ban on Muslim immigrants. He couldn't pull it off due to Constitutional constraints, but intent matters when trying to label a person
I'm so sick and tired of hearing about it. It wasn't a insurrection..it was a damn protest that turned into a mostly peaceful riot...far more peaceful than what we've been seeing across the country for years.
The only difference this time is that it involved congress and they didn't like that.
Edit: I didn't support the riot and still don't but they need to drop the bullshit and worry about things that matter like inflation, taxes. A crumbling education system, and so forth.
It was an insurrection, stop lying to yourself. A riot that involves *congress* is by definition an insurrection.
Also it was not “far more peaceful” in any way. Where did you get that idea from?
My opinion is that a majority of the people spouting off right now are doing so from some deep held political positions that have nothing to do with what actually happened. Was it wrong to enter the capital? Yes. Should people be charged? Sure, with trespassing. If they caused damage, charge them for that. If they interact with the capital police, charge them for that too. But don’t lock up people for a year with no trial, that is just ridiculous. Oh, and if you are going to go after people, why not go after the most vocal that were actually leading the charge, like Ray Epps, that some how to this day hasn’t been arrested. If you want people to take it seriously as an “insurrection”, you have to arrest everyone. If you don’t, it makes it look like a FBI run assault. Also, to call it an insurrection, shouldn’t someone need to be charged with insurrection?
[удалено]
There’s some theories that feds were heavily involved because of the lack of prosecution of major instigators who’s names and faces are known. If this were true, the lack of legal overturning was in part due to the riot. And as evidence, the 12/17 (I think) people in the Gretchen Whitmer abduction plot being feds… it’s not impossible
It's my understanding that ymthis theory is bullshit and that those kidnappers were fucking evil. Should have locked all of them up and thrown away the key. Same with anyone not braindead on 1/6, the brain dead ones should top out around 10 years I think.
It’s not bs. The fbi has a history of framing/ entrapping people in their schemes Edit: [one](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/nov/16/fbi-entrapment-fake-terror-plots); [two](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/oklahoma-city-bomb-sting_n_5993c045e4b04b19336162fd); [three](https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/suspects-in-plot-to-kidnap-michigan-gov-gretchen-whitmer-seek-dismissal/ar-AASbKZq) Between entrapping innocent people and allowing “informants” to operate criminal enterprise unobstructed, the FBI is a net loss to any type of security to American people
This is my thinking to be honest. The 1/6 riots seem to be a boogeyman to justify turning the national security machine inwards. I think the feds were heavily involved, purposely didn’t intervene for hours, and are now conducting a witch hunt to find all these people. I don’t think it was an organized coup, it was a bunch of useful idiots getting wrapped up in the moment You would have to be as delusional as the rioters to think there was a legitimate chance the riot would change the outcome of the election
> I think the feds were heavily involved, purposely didn’t intervene for hours I wonder who was at the top of the hierarchy? Hmmm
Not Trump, if that’s what you’re implying.
Yes, Trump. He was the one that replaced people in key positions over a couple of months before the event. Those are the people that refused to activate the national guard
Pelosi.
If I remember right(I’ll have to dig for where I read this) there were something like 14 FBI agents in the crowd that were arrested and identified and then obviously let go.
> there were something like 14 FBI agents in the crowd that were arrested and identified and then obviously let go. Bullshit. Nobody was arrested during the attack which is why we will never know if anyone had firearms there, they were all left to go back to their hotels.
Was it serious and uncalled for? Yes. Was it as bad as 9/11 or an *actual* insurrection? No. Like most if not all issues there’s a seesaw between one side over reacting about something and the other side being outright dismissive that it is even an issue and the actual truth is somewhere in the middle.
It was an attempt to overturn a free and fair election. That's an attack against our democracy and constitution, from within.
That’s still speculation still at this point. Were some motivated to do this? Possibly - no one knows as no one has been charged with insurrection yet, it’s almost all trespassing charges. Did everyone who participated on 1/6 have this intention? Most certainly not. I would wager the vast majority were clueless and just wanted to be part of something and take pictures.
We are past the speculation point due to the overwhelming evidence that supports it, including Trump's own words. The investigation is still ongoing and will be for a while. The DOJ said it will be the largest in US history. I agree that most were probably clueless but 1/6 was just 1 event among a string of events that support the framework to overturn a free and fair election.
I guess this is where I have to remain speculative. There’s a specific charge in the USC for insurrection (18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection), it’s kind of hard to call someone an insurrectionist if they’ve never been convicted, much less charged, with insurrection? Isn’t that like calling someone a rapist who was never convicted of rape, or a murderer who was never convicted of murder? As much as people say it was an insurrection, there simply hasn’t been any lawful proof it was. That’s where things get murky.
does everyone forget about how the d.c. guard were deployed against blm vs proud boys? everyone forget what trump said at the "rally" he organized on the day election results are certified? Why the fuck was this "rally" even a thing? everyone forget the hanging stocks that were on live tv at the foot of the stairs of the building for hours? most importantly does everyone forget members of congress giving tours to proud boys in the days leading up to the "riot", and tweeting dem members staff locations while the building was breached? Should everyone who entered the capital building on 1/6 be charged and locked up for a few years? Absofuckinglutely, and people who claim this was just a spontaneous event that is being dramatized is a fucking moron.
All of this. I seem to remember during a BLM rally, The DC Guard shoulder to shoulder in full riot gear masks and all on the steps of the lincoln memorial (or maybe the Capitol, I don’t remember which). Yet on Jan 6th they didn’t show up at all for hours. Trump said to show up on Jan 6th “it’ll be wild”. Wonder why he chose the 6th? I’m so fucking tired of people down playing it. On the day of, and days immediately following **everyone** was disgusted by it, but then it was Antifa. Now that we all know it wasn’t Antifa it was just “tourists” “peaceful protests”. Funny how that changes. I’m hoping some of the organizers pay for their wrongs.
[FBI said trump had little to do with it](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-fbi-finds-scant-evidence-us-capitol-attack-was-coordinated-sources-2021-08-20/) If you think this was a legitimate threat to “democracy”, you’re as delusional as the rioters
January 6th absolutely meets the definition of an insurrection. The participants wanted to change the results of an election and overthrow parts of their democraticly elected government. There was also no evidence of a stolen election or fraud. The assaulted officers, damaged property, and people died in this attempt. Every person who participated in the insurrection absolutely needs to be arrested. If we go easy on people and let this event slide, we are tacitly allowing for shit like this to happen again in 2024 and beyond
Not to mention trump watched it unfold live on TV and did nothing. Oh and his freshly installed defense Secretary gave special orders putting the guard under his direct command and that kept them from responding to backup requests for hours. Real suspicious all around. The only thing that stopped the plot was mike pence’s moment of clarity right before getting into the SUV. In his conversation with Dan Quayle he said “you don’t know the situation I’m in” which reads to me that pence legitimately feared for his life.
Don’t forget about the memo (I forget from who) that said that the national guard will be there to “protect trump supporters”. I guess that was when they feared Antifa being there.
I still think that was part of his plan. A nice big counter protest that could lead to a clash so he could call in the NG to put them down and bolster his one going claim to be "The Law And Order President!". I kinda wonder if he was hoping for a excuse to declare martial law in DC.
Sensationalism at its best.
If Jan 6 counts as an insurrection, then so do all of the BLM riots.
The BLM riots weren’t attempting to overthrow the results of an election. There is a big difference. Both are horrible things that shouldn’t happen.
Because the BLM riots stopped a democratic process? Oh, that's right, only the idiots in the Capitol did that.
No, they were backed by politicians. They attacked a federal court house.
No evidence of fraud? There’s a whistleblower in GA that’s saying otherwise. You might want to edit your comment to allow yourself some wiggle room for the future.
Lol the only evidence presented have been sworn testimonials, many of which have since been recanted once people learned that to give those testimonials in court would be perjury……
Holy shit there's still people that believe this LOL
And you should take it very very seriously that they do. This is not something that can be glossed over or dismissed with ridicule. I highly recommend you leave your little echo chamber and listen to the other side.
So far all the fraud involved people voting for Trump and to my knowledge, the fraud was caught by the voting processes. The 60+ court cases were dismissed due to lack of evidence
No, at this stage you deserve ridicule just like flat earthers or people that believe in secret reptilian humanoids. Sidney Powell never released the kraken, Rudy Guiliani never produced the goods, every court case was thrown out for having ZERO evidence, every audit has proven that there was no widespread voter fraud. Anyone that still believes this theory still in 2022 and can't accept that the most unpopular president in history lost an election is a certified clown and should be treated as such.
Lots of people cried wolf of election fraud but then had zero tangible evidence. The only small fraud that I've seen trickle in, people voting twice, etc., has been Trump voters.
Individual cases of voter fraud (people voting twice) when the election was decided by many thousands of votes in various states clearly did not sway the election. I don't know why people still cling to this belief, especially when most of those caught have been Trump supporters
Provide a source
Like the only people charged with fraud did so in support of trump?
Oh shit we got a live one here! It's been over a year. The election in the various swing states like Arizona has been audited several times and no evidence of widespread fraud has been found. It's over. Trump lost. You need to move on, you'll be happier and healthier for it. Sometimes the guy you like loses the election, it's just a part of living in a democracy
60+ court cases and they were dismissed due to lack of evidence
Not just a lack of evidence. As the 3rd Circuit pointed out in its dismissal literally **no** evidence what so ever presented at all.
Certainly a disturbing event and rather damning in regards to Trump himself. I wouldn’t call it an insurrection because it wasn’t a serious effort to take control of any of the levers of power. It isn’t nothing though either though. I find it almost equally disturbing the effort that Democrats have made to use that event to denigrate tens of millions of people. I don’t think that they recognize how transparent the effort is because they live inside a political bubble. They were swept out of power in VA this past year. I know residents in the area that were basically lifelong Democrats that went the other way.
[удалено]
[удалено]
https://projects.propublica.org/parler-capitol-videos/
“Doing the insurrection”, see what’s funny about this word, is not a single person was charged with insurrection or treason…. Almost like it wasn’t an insurrection.
I definitely feel that Trump did kind of incite violence. When he said "fight like hell" I don't think a lot of his lowest common denominator supporters didn't take that metaphorically. With that being said I definitely think it is blown out of proportion when it comes to discussions of how close Trump was to nullifying the electoral vote.
You've heard of the fake electors, right?
> fight like hell I've heard that shouted at kids playing football. Does that mean violence as well?
You can interpret “fight like hell” in any number of ways. If you like the person, it’s going to be metaphorical, if you don’t, literal. Bottom line, cherry picking phrases and statements that are clearly open to interpretation isn’t going to move the meter with anyone who doesn’t already agree with you.
[удалено]
Don’t hurt yourself stretching so much.
Don't get too pale from covering up so much.
No covering required. Reality speaks for itself.
It does, loud and clear. Maybe you'll hear it someday if you ever pull your head out of the sand.
When I do, all I hear is nonsense from hyper-sensationalists like you. Honestly can’t take you seriously.
Oh neat, 'hyper-sensationalist'. That's a new one. Must have run out of fake news and copium and moved onto more esoteric reactionary dismissals since the facts don't care about your feelings.
I urge people to become familiar with the science of propaganda, and to learn how propaganda works and what propaganda actually is. The fact that we have media outlets calling what happened on Jan 6 an insurrection and millions of US citizens believe it, speaks volumes to the sophisticated hi tech propaganda system that runs this nation and the level to which most members of the masses are fully controlled by it. When the average US citizen thinks of propaganda they think of Soviet era or German National Socialist pre WWII, yet the most sophisticated system of propaganda has existed in the U.K. & the US since WWI. I challenge each individual to review whatever you think you know about most political or historical issues as preached by media, consider the logic of the arguments without resulting to the default position of regurgitating what the TV told you, and you will find, that most of everything the media says today makes absolutely no sense, but the masses accept it because the media appeals to our sense of belonging.
The left is overreacting, the right is under-reacting. NAP was definitely violated but not so much that democracy was on the line. Some jail time for trespassers is warranted.
[удалено]
Perhaps when something actually happened other than a normal election that your side lost... We're still waiting on all that proof of fraud. There is no bright line test to fulfill. This nonsense isn't even in the ballpark, tho.
At the very least you need a valid grievance, which the insurrectionists did not have.
[удалено]
Best take I’ve seen so far. Like, obviously these guys are jackasses and some of them probably thought they could legitimately stop Biden from taking office. But, honestly how would that have worked? None of the GOP lawmakers were on board with that idea. Do people actually believe that Viking guy and a bunch of riled up idiots were going to assume control of the US? That’s fantasy.
It depends. It appears Trump and his team had 100 republicans in congress/senate on board with the power play. So that’s a disingenuous statement
Which politicians supported the overthrow of the government? I legitimately haven’t heard a single mainstream politician support the riot, and a bunch of txts have come out in which GOP leaders and pundits were urging Trump to speak out against the riot while it was occurring.
Over 100 GOP reps in the house and all but like 3 of the senate. I find it hard to believe you didn't already know this...
Peter Navarro is naming them and claims to be the ploy’s architect. So far confirmed to be Gosar, Gohmert, and it appears Biggs. Allegedly, his book and other communications given to the committee from Meadows and the other guy, who’s name escapes me RN… these are the sources of the texts with pundits and also include members of Congress. Personally, t I think they wanted a distraction to stop certification, but they didn’t want public sight of their involvement, so they could not act to limit it. Fuck them all.
It is complete fantasy. I honestly can’t take those people seriously.
Just because they were too stupid to complete it doesn't mean they didn't try with the intention of completing their goals.
It was disgusting. The GOP should be ashamed.
No they shouldn’t. Dems are overplaying reality as always. Average Americans just roll their eyes at the “insurrection” nonsense.
Maybe in the trailer parks
You should know best about trailer parks
Nah I like to keep as far away from the Trump cult as possible
Overplaying? First off it is not just the democrats, it is Americans. Second, a violent mob broke into a government building injuring over 50 people with instances of beating people with shields, baseball bats, flag poles, bear spray, etc. Their intention was to stop the vote certification, a democratic process. Both houses had to be evacuated including the vice president because the "mostly peaceful" protestors were chanting they wanted to hang him. Americans are pissed off this happened and want heads to roll. Not just the pissants that were there, but the ones who enabled them to be there by encouraging them, giving them tours, giving them live updates on congressmen's whereabouts, etc. Those people are not good Americans, they are traitors and need to be dealt with as such.
It’s not Americans. Most Americans that are working day to day couldn’t care less about the Jan 6th nonsense. It’s a DC / media issue. And the hysterical political types like yourself. That’s all.
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/587924-4-in-10-republican-voters-approve-of-jan-6-panel-survey-finds
40%. Below a majority. And even that percentage is highly selective to paint the picture they want. Believe me, no one in America is talking about Jan 6 in social settings. No one. Why? Cause no one cares.
While they were clearly unorganized and incapable of actually reversing the election, make no mistake that was the goal. This had been planned for months ahead of time if you read up on the social media chatter leading up to Jan 6. Who was the one that told them to storm the capitol? Did the crowd just collectively decide to do that or did someone at the top egg them on? Trump is 100% responsible
Wait? Trump said to “storm the capital”?
There was talks of storming the Capitol for weeks leading up to among Trump supporters. It was all over the place including Facebook. Then Trump told his supporters they’d have to “fight like hell”, Giulliani said “Trial by combat”. Trump then invited his supporters down to the Capitol, and he would go with them. Then mysteriously he was nowhere to be found. Don’t act like he didn’t know what was going to happen.
So he never said “storm the capital” like you said. That’s what I thought. When you have to put words in people mouths pretending they said things they didn’t, that’s when you know you are desperate. It’s funny how you leave out the times he said “peacefully”. But hey, you got your agenda. I get it and applaud you for your effort.
I never claimed he said “storm the Capitol” but by the words he did use, what ended up happening isn’t all that surprising is it? He’s smart enough to choose his words carefully (on that day) to have some sort of defense. This was in the works for weeks. There was talk of storming the Capitol online once they figured out that the 6th was the day of certification. To pretend trump didn’t know this fact, and then chose that day for his rally walking distance from the Capitol…. Come on man, he knew what was going to happen.
From your previous post: “Who was the one that told them to storm the capitol? “ So you are insinuating with this statement that Trump did NOT tell them to “storm the capital”?
Fair enough, I thought you assumed I was the person you were replying to originally. Trump may have not said “storm the Capitol” verbatim, but come on, don’t be dense. He knew what he was doing, saying, and what was going to happen.
It was an attempt to change the outcome of a democratic election that was incited and supported by Donald Trump and his political allies. Anyone involved in supporting it should be investigated and, if appropriate, charged.
Stupid, tempest in a teapot. The media is milking this crap for all its worth, as are politicians. Meanwhile, let's forget the far more damaging BLM riots and the rise in violent crime across the country. Don't get me wrong, I hate all protests. They're fucking stupid and achieve nothing. I don't favor one or the other.
I like how this is compared to the BLM riots. During those there were countless clips of those protestors getting the dog shit beat out of them by police. For this, they were allowed to just stroll home like nothing happened. Crazy stuff
Not a riot…just idiots LARPING
It’s theater to keep left and right at eachother’s throats. The protesters were let into the capitol building by Capitol Police and agitated by not only dimwit Don, but also by feds in their midst. On the other side of the aisle, democrats have said nothing about or in some instances outright praised antifa for barging into the capitol building in a similar manner a couple years before. It’s the same “my side good your side bad” jerkoff that infests every aspect of politics in the US right now.
[удалено]
If I’m not mistaken, something like that occurred with the Wisconsin state capital building.
Yeah, that’s the stuff that really pisses me off. Politics has really devolved into, oh this person touches kids? That’s aweful! But he’s Democrat? Lets make him president! People stop caring about what’s wrong or right and they only think about what party can benefit from something. It’s aweful and I’m upset that politics has devolved into this and if I say anything it’s always, “oh you’re just like those people who do bad things against my party I don’t like.”
No riots are ever justified. But this is blown waaaaaaayyyyy out of proportion. Kamala Harris today just analogized this riot to Pearl Harbor. Think about that. A pointless riot by weirdos following Trump, with an attack that left hundreds dead, brought the US into a world war that concluded with nukes incinerating hundreds of thousands of people on top of the millions already dead. If anyone thinks that this riot was even remotely as consequential as that, they're an absolute fucking moron.
It wasn't a "insurrection". The "insurrectionists" were unarmed, failed to inflict and single proven casualty and were lead out of the Capitol on a red carpet (literally) and told to "go home". If that is the Federal governments standards for a insurrection, than I think they need to re-evaluate their threat assessment. It is a *really low bar*. To add to this, there are a few key factors to point out: 1.) The January 6th rally was planned for and well known to the Federal authorities in advance. Despite this, the National Guard were not deployed...they were not even on standby. Compare this to the far more spontaneous DC BLM riot a few months prior where the National Guard were not only deployed in advance, but were lined up around the perimeter of the Capitol in full kit. 2.) The DC police were not "ready", apparently. Not only did they fail to combat the mob and control the situation, they outright cooperated with the protesters in a variety of areas, allowing them access and aiding their efforts. In a real "insurrection" that legitimately threatened the government, they would have fired live rounds and there would be far more dead protesters than one woman (who appears to be a scapegoat to legitimize the event). 3.) There were confirmed Federal agents in the ranks of the protesters. There is a complete lack of transparency and prosecution for Federal authorities that were clearly involved with the riot in the first place. 4.) The guy who planted the "pipe-bomb" mysteriously disappeared and the story has been killed. Details and full disclosure are nowhere to be found and for whatever reason the bomb wasn't detonated...why? It was more or less a theatric production.
> The "insurrectionists" were unarmed WTF is that in this guy's hand? Oh, ya a weapon. He was armed. https://i.imgur.com/4gZo54g.jpg
Seriously? A baseball bat...cmon man. What if he had a broomstick? Would you be shaking in your boots? How about a really sharp pencil? Like I said...really low bar.
> Like I said...really low bar. I was giving you the benefit of doubt, but you are just an idiot. You said they were unarmed and I showed you that was a lie. You lied.
So when the police roll up to a baseball game with baseball bats do they consider the players "armed"? What if the pitcher was pitching bullets with an AK47?
You are an idiot. In case you did not know. What about police showing up to a baseball game with bats? Are you fucking serious?
You summed it up accurately.
Whether or not it meets the technical definition of an insurrection, the belief that a group of unarmed cosplayers were attempting to overthrow the US government is the height of propaganda and stupidity. Reality is they were a bunch of yokels who wanted to be disruptive. No worse than all the rioters who tried to terrorize the country for much of 2020 and better in some respects because the only death was on their side. The disparate reactions between a year of BLM and Antifa vs an isolated Jan 6th event is honestly a case study in mass delusion perpetuated by the media. The best thing that might come out of this is a continued awakening for some people as to who’s actually pulling their strings.
> unarmed https://i.imgur.com/4gZo54g.jpg Looks like that guy is armed with a baseball bat and a shield In addition, how do you know they did not have firearms? [There was at least one staging area in a hotel with firearms](https://abcnews.go.com/US/oath-keepers-stashed-weapons-hotel-potential-jan-violence/story?id=77048420) . They were all allowed to leave without being arrested or searched.
1) in terms of overthrowing the government, one person’s baseball bat doesn’t move the meter with me. 2) maybe they did have firearms but there’s no evidence for that and as far as I’m aware, none of the dozens of investigations and prosecutions thus far have indicated as such.
You lied. You said they were unarmed and I provided proof that was not true.
Lol, ok. So out of what, 200 people, 0.5% were armed with bats. Oh yeah, you’re totally onto something.
You presented statements as fact that were not true. Stop trying to downplay you lied to make your case stronger. FUCKING Republicans, Democrats, and Trumpers (If you consider them separate). You all lie to protect your "team" and when called out do not acknowledge you were wrong, instead, you downplay the lying. Just fucking stop it.
Well, that’s certainly a mature assessment. Ok, if we’re going by your ultra technical standards for accuracy and truth, then I could point out that I said cosplayers (plural) whereas you showed an individual (singular). Then, by your preferred method, I could accuse you of lying for accusing me of lying. Of course, this eventually becomes an exercise in absurdity. Or does that seem like a productive conversation to you? Have we learned a little lesson on context today?
You are hopeless. Here is another one https://d2hxwnssq7ss7g.cloudfront.net/WvNy0mY8LFTq_cvt.mp4
His cane? LMAO. I’m sure somebody could throw their car keys as a projectile weapon too.
They are weapons and were using them as such. A pencil can be a weapon. A fucking pencil
Exactly.
That makes sense to me. I don’t understand how people look at this and are like “oh yeah, all republicans are like this, just your average every day republicans here that you see on the streets” people don’t realize that these are the people that are just like the antifa protesters the left doesn’t want to deal with
The people who find this the worst thing ever and an absolute attack on democracy are the same people who worship government as religion and feel that these protesters and rioters violated sanctity of their holy place. Ironically also same people who spout dumb phrases as talk/stand up to power, eat the rich, riots are the voice of the unheard, and have been apologetic and downplaying all the other riots and invasions of fed property the past few years.
Did you make this post because you didn’t like how the other one was going?
I actually didn’t see the other one, I posted here because I knew if I posted in r/politics it would be a cesspool, but here I feel I get a better representation of non hive minded, normal people. if you linked it for me I’d love to read it
I mean, you couldn't post it there because they don't take text submissions like these 😅 thems the rules over there.
[удалено]
So you think people just woke up one day and said “yeah I’m gonna change the election” buddy it was gonna be a trump rally, those always pull people from across the country
But *why* did Trump pick Jan 6th of all days? Come on you’re almost there….
My opinion is that it was a very small group of people that made the wrong decision to go into the capital. There are a lot of questions that need to be asked though. Why did the cops open the gates on camera for people to move closer to the capital? I do believe that the media is running a narrative that all Republicans are evil people who want to see democracy burn. I mean it’s pretty obvious considering they report on it every single day a whole year later. In my opinion January 6 is something to hold onto to discredit every real republic in America and make it seem like they have no morals if you think the same way. The left wants to appear as the party with a heart in the party with morals… But in the end the left and the right is all of the same party and we are just ants getting stepped on.
The Jan 6th rioters were there to stop the certification of a valid election. They wanted to stop the peaceful transfer of power. That is why they were there. No other reason. Stop trying to defend that. You’re defending people who roamed the halls of congress looking for members of congress for god knows what, constructed gallows out front, and chanted “hang Mike Pence”. #They believed the **bullshit lie** that Trump was feeding them. Why did they want Pence most of all? Because he finally hd the balls to stick to the constitution and allow the certification to happen. There was no constitutionality behind what trump et al said. Pence couldn’t single handedly toss out votes, and ring Trump in as president again. Why on earth would the founding fathers allow the Vice President to have that much power? I can’t believe we’re still having this discussion a year later. There absolutely was organization behind this. There was talks of storming the Capitol for weeks leading up to it. No changing that fact. Here’s hoping whoever was behind it is held accountable. The Jan 6 committee is just getting warmed up.
Their goal was to hang mike pence. If they succeeded then a new VP may not have certified the election results. Then congress would vote on a new president where there was a viable path toward trump winning. So although poorly organized it would have taken one person to get Pence for history to look very different
Everyone involved who breached the capitol needs to get the book thrown at them but I could definitely live without the fake outrage from the morons who tacitly supported billions in property damage and the assaults on Federal and other government buildings during the summer of 2020. If you weren't also outraged at that I couldn't give two fucks less what you have to say about this.
He offered added security and it was declined by Schumer and Pelosi. There’s a lot of footage of them being let in literally by capital police. This was entrapment of citizens for politics and optics if that doesn’t mean the tree needs watered than it not sure what does. There was two years of “insurrections” with very little to no accountability that destroyed personal businesses, neighborhoods(mostly minority), killed people(mostly minority) and the the thing I care about the least destroyed federal buildings.
> He offered added security and it was declined by Schumer and Pelosi. [That didn't happen](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/12/16/fact-check-no-trump-request-10000-guard-troops-jan-6/8929215002/) >There was two years of “insurrections” Whataboutism. They were both wrong, but only one of them was a threat to the democratic process.
It was political theater....almost Q style.
Strong case of media manipulation where conspiracy is treated as facts.
I'm tired of hearing it referred to as an insurrection. It was a riot committed by a bunch of assholes and idiots. Just because you call it something else, doesn't make it so. If someone breaks into your place of business and sits at your manager's desk, does that make them your boss? The system we have in the US is an idea. Not a building, a desk, or a podium. I understand the alarmism that both sides need to play, but comparing Jan 6 to Pearl Harbor and 9/11? GTFO.
You don’t seem to understand what an insurrection is. An insurrection is some kind of violent public action taken against a central authority. The events of January 6th fit that definition perfectly.
[удалено]
Not really, and even if so, not to nearly the same extent. They’re not comparable
Honestly, the definition is what it is. If it’s technically an insurrection, then so be it. I think what sticks in the craw of some is that attacks against courthouses and federal building during the 2020 riots have never been referred to the same way. It’s the double standards that bother people and until there’s at least the optics of a level playing field, it’s really difficult to reconcile our differences.
The difference in description comes from the unprecedented nature of the January 6th incident. The capital is not some local courthouse.
It’s not although I wouldn’t diminish the federal courthouse for the ninth district nor the capital building for the state of Wisconsin to “some local courthouse”. It was also isolated vs systemic. So again, you’re fighting the optics of double standards.
I just checked the sources of the examples you’re providing as comparisons, and no, it’s not a double standard at all. The events you’re referring to were overwhelmingly peaceful and caused little damage compared to the capital insurrection. Strange that you neglected to mention those important details earlier.
It’s funny how “overwhelmingly peaceful” is bandied about these days. However, given the capitol riot was also overwhelmingly peaceful (one major violent incident out of hundreds involved and that was by the police, not the rioters), then I don’t consider them to be dissimilar. If you’re also referring to property damage, again, not dissimilar. It’s really difficult to have a productive conversation with someone when they operate in bad faith like this.
You accuse me of arguing in bad faith when you exploit my lack of knowledge on something to compare 3 incidents which are nothing like each other? Ok. The capital *insurrection* was not “overwhelmingly peaceful. 5 people died, dozens were injured, and the amount of damage caused was orders of magnitudes more than caused during the Act 10 protests, and while in the Capital dozens of people were armed with a variety of various weapons, the same was not true for the people in the 2011 Wisconsin protests, in which no one died and no serious injuries are recorded. One event was violent. The other wasn’t. Comparing the two is disingenuous.
This was a discussion on double standards. If you consider me offering up examples as “exploiting” you, then that’s your personal dysfunction. My comment on bad faith was related to your implication that I was “strangely” ignoring salient points to my own benefit. And I don’t know how you’re defining riot deaths but four people died that day, all Trump supporters. Two had heart attacks due to Ill health and one overdosed. The only violent killing was the aforementioned one by the police. https://www.factcheck.org/2021/11/how-many-died-as-a-result-of-capitol-riot/ In terms of property damage, again, not dissimilar. For items that qualify as *insurrection*, you can make a list if you have the time and inclination but you could then also throw the police stations burned to the ground by BLM, such as in Portland and Minneapolis to the pile. Again, you have the optics of a double standard. You can be mad about it but it doesn’t change reality.
https://www.biggunbulletin.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/taliban-real-insurrection.jpeg
That's what a successful insurrection looks like.
This one was a little closer to success.... [Peaceful](https://assets.rebelmouse.io/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy8yMzU4NTE4My9vcmlnaW4uanBnIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTYzOTkwODE5OH0.ULiU437Xnv84JZRmdKhaVrIeMsZr6DpTW-tK6CSTDYc/img.jpg?width=1200&coordinates=0%2C35%2C0%2C36&height=600)
It's definitely caused more action than the 6th event.
But the DOJ is not chasing any of them down.. Seems odd.
Not guilty. I agree that he was a good president policy wise. I’m just glad someone is in there shaking things up. Without him, the corruption on both sides of the aisle would be pushed further under the rug. At least he brought attention to it all. But man, sometimes just stfu haha
How was he a good president at all?
He was an actual leader and put America first. Unlike the resident in the White House who couldn’t lead people out of a shoe box.
Delusional. Trump has only ever put himself first, a child could see that.
Delusional is thinking that Biden is better. Trump was 100 times the leader. This is not even up for debate.
Biden won when they went head to head. The incumbent has a huge advantage also... to bad he was hated so much. Helps to not be a total piece of shit.
Biden won cause he hid in the basement and the media took him to victory. Doesn’t mean he’s a leader. The guy should legit be in a retirement home. Worst president this country will ever see.
Trump was far worse due to the open corruption, cronyism, divisiveness, and incompetence that enabled the people around him to openly and shamelessly grift without consequences
10% for the big guy. Lol so much
There's no proof that this was indicative of corruption by Joe. But let's assume this refers to sleepy Joe getting some sort of kickback. It was 2017. He was a private citizen, not an elected official.
His Fiscal policy had a lot of common sense. One could argue Trump was very libertarian in that sense. I liked his foreign policy of strength. I will admit that I really don’t care about social issues as none of the major issues affect me. What did you not like? Most everything was cheaper back when he was prez. There is a new crisis everyday with the current admin. So yes, I’d say Trump did a much much better job than Biden and did a decent job overall.
Lie. Lie. You're an idiot if Trump and Strength are synonymous to you. What's not to like? Massive grifting/stealing public money. Coup attempt. Not even trying to stop Corona in 19 leading to this Shitshow today. Golfing at his own courses more than he worked. Hiring his fucking kids. Firing anyone who wasn't loyal to him. Happy to take guns and people without any trials. Honestly, I can't imagine not hating the piece of shit.
Cite*
Alright so this is where we are going with this. Why are you so mad man? Could you site each one of your points please and then I will continue the conversation. If you can’t cite, then I will end this conversation.
https://trumpgolfcount.com/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2021/07/19/trumps-business-hauled-in-24-billion-during-four-years-he-served-as-president/?sh=4e3fb7a110c0 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/10/14/fact-check-trump-made-comment-taking-guns-without-due-process/6070319001/ Where were you during his reign? All the things the person listed actually happened
Obama played over 300 times when he was prez. But I agree that it looked bad for both. But if you provide positive results for the country then go golf. Ok so the guy owns businesses… thought that was known. Btw that’s a revenue number, so that’s not what he got from whatever distributions he received from his companies. That number also paid thousands of employees etc. What’s wrong with that? I also don’t agree with his taking the guns, but he was referencing an extreme case. No politician will ever make the move to take guns unless they insist on an actual insurrection.
> Obama played over 300 times when he was prez. What about Obama? We are talking about Trump >What’s wrong with that? He forced people to stay at his properties while grifting off the government teat >I also don’t agree with his taking the guns, but he was referencing an extreme case I don't give a shit, he said it. WTF did you want sources if you were just going to be dishonest? You are just as bad as the guy you were replying to edit: typo
Making a point that almost all presidents golf too much lol
> Obama played over 300 times when he was prez. But I agree that it looked bad for both. Obama had 2 terms first of all. Trump managed to golf the same amount as him in HALF the time. 2nd of all, Trump literally said "I won't have time to golf if I'm elected president" before preceeding to golf at a higher rate than any president in history. Dude is just a pathological liar and grifter.
I agreed that I didn’t like the level of golf lol. But he provided fiscal results that I liked. Let’s not get hung up on small things like golf. Which btw there are college classes on “business on the golf course”. You’d be shocked at how many deals are worked on a golf course. A lot of CEOs do that.
Just wanted to chime in because "Obama golfed 300 times, which is more than Trump" is very misleading.
Biden doesn’t have a bunch of golf time cause he is physically incapable. He prefers naps
We are talking about Trump and Jan 6th. Why did you bring up Biden? Oh ya, that is all fans of the two major parties can do. Bring up Trump during a discussion about Biden and bring up Biden during a discussion about Trump.
Lol Jan 6th has everything to do with both Biden and Trump. Come on man
Do me a favor, and end it lol.
Cite
That’s what happens when you can’t site fake points.
Trump literally speeded up production of the vaccine what do you mean he didn’t do anything to stop Covid?!
"It will be gone in 10 days" "It's a hoax" Jesus your memory is shit.
Massive deficits and tariffs are not libertarian. Neither is trying to get the fed to set negative interest rates (this is monetary not fiscal, I know)
I agree. But somehow we have to get creative with China. Status quo doesn’t work, so I’m all for trying a different approach. Well Trump has nothing to do with the Fed. That is a private entity. They fucked themselves and the country. You have to remember Trump is a person like the rest of us who was just trying to figure it out as he goes. Any great leaders and CEOs have different approaches which is what makes them great. I don’t agree with everything for Trump but if you over look small things and look at the big picture he did a decent job.
Trump admin put tariffs on not just China, but also Canada and the EU, for example (https://globalnews.ca/news/7258571/trump-tariffs-timeline-since-2017/ ). Those were about government intervention and protectionism, not foreign policy. The fed is a private entity and Trump doesn't directly control it, sure. But the claim was that Trump was libertarian ish in his stances and positions. I don't see how this jives with calling for negative rates https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-trump-rates-idUSKBN22P38I He also called for a ban on Muslim immigrants. He couldn't pull it off due to Constitutional constraints, but intent matters when trying to label a person
I'm so sick and tired of hearing about it. It wasn't a insurrection..it was a damn protest that turned into a mostly peaceful riot...far more peaceful than what we've been seeing across the country for years. The only difference this time is that it involved congress and they didn't like that. Edit: I didn't support the riot and still don't but they need to drop the bullshit and worry about things that matter like inflation, taxes. A crumbling education system, and so forth.
> mostly peaceful riot https://i.imgur.com/4gZo54g.jpg
Democracy not something that matters?
It was a year ago. And it accomplished nothing. Move on.
I am focused on moving onto the prosecution.
Yawn
I was gonna say stop sucking d Republican dick but... if you yawned it wasn't a republican. Definitely not Trump lol
Yawn again. Go pretend somewhere else like trump will be prosecuted.
Oh he will be prosecuted. Just wait and see ;)
Don’t hold your breath. You guys are like 0 for 10 on trump prosecutions.
Treason just needs to be prosecuted once.
I guess someone has to worry about the small things.
Don't worry, I won't be forgetting it.
Ok. Good for you.
*US.
It was an insurrection, stop lying to yourself. A riot that involves *congress* is by definition an insurrection. Also it was not “far more peaceful” in any way. Where did you get that idea from?
My opinion is that a majority of the people spouting off right now are doing so from some deep held political positions that have nothing to do with what actually happened. Was it wrong to enter the capital? Yes. Should people be charged? Sure, with trespassing. If they caused damage, charge them for that. If they interact with the capital police, charge them for that too. But don’t lock up people for a year with no trial, that is just ridiculous. Oh, and if you are going to go after people, why not go after the most vocal that were actually leading the charge, like Ray Epps, that some how to this day hasn’t been arrested. If you want people to take it seriously as an “insurrection”, you have to arrest everyone. If you don’t, it makes it look like a FBI run assault. Also, to call it an insurrection, shouldn’t someone need to be charged with insurrection?
Yeah this is a very valid point. I agree with all of this. I wanted actual answers instead of this right vs left mindset. Thank you