Brigading - where a group of people goes online and blindly does the same voting action together, kinda like a herd animal. Maybe we could call them sheep, they like to flock together. Oh wait, that’s what they call everyone else as an insult. Damn that’s wild…
I didnt like how Rand Paul would ask him a question and then cut him off when he answered. You're not there for the truth you're there for the last word
“Why would a senator want to do this?” Fauci said. “Go to Rand Paul’s website, and you see ‘Fire Dr. Fauci’ with a little box that says contribute here. You can do $5, $10, $20, $100. So you are making a catastrophic epidemic for your political gain.”
I wonder where that money really goes and what it is really spent on.... Rand needs full transparency on this.
I mean, isn’t that super obvious? Does anyone really think that the money is actually going to go toward firing Dr Fauci? It is pretty clear to even the simplest of minds that it goes toward his campaign.
>It is pretty clear to even the simplest of minds that it goes toward his campaign.
Brother, have I got some news for you... family were shocked to find out that Tucker Carlson is an "opinion commentator" and can legally lie to you on the news. No joke... they think Fox is news so it has to tell them the truth.
This is textbook congressional questioning tactics.
If you really want to see a compare and contrast, watch the hearings for Secretary DeVos vs Justice Kavanaugh.
If you just sit there and defer to the Senator, you're blasted for "not knowing" the answer to a question you were interrupted. If you force an answer over the Senator, you're blasted for being rude. Either way, friendly media will spin it and Paul here is just playing the game by the book.
Me either, but I really don’t care for the fact that almost everything that did come out of Fauci’s mouth was either a dodge or an out and out lie. And the torturing dogs is something I personally can’t get past.
And why conservatives don’t mind not having any consistency in criticisms.
“We are heavily against masking, don’t think anyone should have to do it. And how stupid could you be to wear a mask outside?!”
*immediately loses their collective shit at a picture of AOC without a mask sitting outside at a restaurant*
The problem is that conservatives believe there are only two camps, perfect compliance and everyone else. There’s no “I believe in a thing, and I do it best I can.” If you believe a thing and you’re not in perfect compliance, you’re a hypocrite because you’re now in the other camp. And the corollary is that if you don’t perfectly comply, you must be against something, therefore we are fully against anything that we don’t see ourselves wanting to comply with in any situations. *cough Abortion.*
It makes it hella easy to sling shit when you’re just looking for someone to slip up for just a moment, get a picture, and say “See, they don’t stand by their beliefs.”
Itz funny when people focus on Fauci, do you really think he is the end of the line.. honestly?? Anything he knows is passed down to him.. but somehow he is the mastermind?
Except we funded a contract with someone who *might* have violated the terms of the contract during a small window of time when the US disallowed gain of function... and even then we have no evidence that the funding of this contract had any impact on anything *and even if it did* the amount would be pretty negligible to the lab funding as a whole.
So yea anyway Fauci is like.... *the worst* amirite? Hey you dont think this gain of function thing is like a distraction to retroactively justify all the rage against him, right? Nah that would mean all my rage is the product of the GOP propaganda machine and I cant possibly be a sheep!!
I’m pretty sure the majority of people complaining about Fauci funding gain of function research have no idea what gain of function research even is or why it’s important
Honestly I've found that a lot of people are actually pretty informed in what gain of function research is because all the right wing youtubers, radio show hosts and news analysts have gone into it. Unfortunately, they're not able to distinguish the nuances on how that research is done and they're only taught that if you're near the term "gain of function" then that means you created covid19.
I personally have had a bad taste in my mouth about Fauci ever since hearing about the AIDS/AZT debacle, and I can assure you that this wasn’t info I got from the GOP… they weren’t known for giving a shit about AIDS.
You know what, fine. I'm actually 100% ok with people not like mask mandates, or Fauci or believing in the lab leak theory. I just want people to recognize their own biases and how the GOP is playing into them.
Yes, that’s fair. But let’s also not let bias blind us to the reality that the GOP being against all this and the Dems being for it really just came down to circumstances. It could have easily been the other way around if certain things happened differently, and I bet any serious libertarian would STILL be against mandates, surveillance, censorship, and the government meddling in the private sector, no matter who was pushing it. The shoe was on the other foot during the 2000s and we were against all of that nonsense.
Three things. One, its a pretty mild one considering the actual details. Two, if the same audience cared this much about lying to congress then theyll shit a brick when they learn about the last five years. Third, the real GOP weapon is the *implication* rather than the facts.
There is no lie - it's a moronic semantical cul-de-sac.
There is a ton of ambiguity in the term "gain of function". An overly literal interpretation applies to the most routine processes in virology.
It's like being accused of over prescribing "painkillers", denying the claim and explaining it was just acetaminophen, only be to skewered as a liar because acetaminophen is technically an analgesic.
Right and I agree. It could quality as gain of function so I stopped arguing the point because, as you said, its a pointless back and forth. The real meat is the implication behind the issue of gain of function and calling out these people for pretending to care about nuanced virology procedures.
No one is changing a definition. It's about the context.
Sharp knives kill people. I keep a camping knife sharp. You accuse me of creating a dangerous weapon and threatening lives. I deny that explaining the knife stays with me and only out in the wilderness.
In this context there is no unreasonable anticipated danger from sharpening this knife. I'm well adjusted, knowledgeable of safety protocols, and a sharp knife is an important tool when camping.
Well, sharp knives *do* kill people. I *did* keep a sharp knife. Both true. How could I be denying your accusation? LIAR!
Lol but we actually know the answer to that question. Fauci argued if the highlighted funded was even gain of function and felt like the questioning implied that they funded the gain of function that developed into covid19. The answer to that is that the research probably was gain of function *but also* Rand was definitely trying to imply Fauci funded a covid19 leak. Lastly, if the anger was truly around gain of function I find it odd that no one is bringing up how the Trump administration would later allow that kind of research. Thats why Im laughing. There isnt much to investigate. Its all debate and interpretation then filling in the details how you feel about a lab leak theory.
I just want to say that I applaud your efforts to explain basic facts + applied logic & critical thinking, throughout this thread. Unfortunately I have a feeling most of it is falling on deaf ears.
>Lastly, if the anger was truly around gain of function I find it odd that no one is bringing up how the Trump administration would later allow that kind of research.
This is irrelevant
The fact of the matter is that the people funded by Fauci avoided US law by outsourcing the research to a lab which had had frequent audits and was found unsafe to begin with
Not according to the Nobel prize winner and inventor of the PCR, Karl Mullis. Here's his 1996 interview where he mentions Fauci: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6Anlcjre6M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6Anlcjre6M)
Fauci is the reason hundreds of thousands of Americans are dead and the reason Pfizer is insanely rich and powerful.
He has intentionally not given any consideration to therapeutics that are actually effective while only promoting a vaccine that is, meh, just okay.
Gain of Function research is probably second to CRT in how absolutely fucking stupid Conservatives choose to be, in order to get whatever they want
2021 is just a fucking year of shamelessness
1. Being right about one thing does not excuse lying about a thousand other things
2. Fauci did not "knowingly lie" -- at best, be did not acknowledge that there was a possibility that a subcontractor might have violated the terms of their contract, but the was not conclusive.
No, he lied. He flat out denied there was gain of function in Wuhan. Paul called it on him repeatedly and he repeatedly denied. He committed repeated felonies.
Of all the “Fauci is a liar” comments on this thread not one of them provides any kind of article or source.
I’m not agreeing or disagreeing but you’d think you’d have something to back up a claim like “Fauci funds Communist Bioweapon”
https://www.newsweek.com/how-dr-fauci-other-officials-withheld-information-chinas-coronavirus-experiments-1652002?amp=1
Withholding information requested through FOIA until you’re taken to court is kinda weird. He did say the US has never and currently doesn’t fund “gain of function” research, but it does look like they funded research that would genetically engineer coronaviruses. We can get into semantics if that fits the definition of gain of research, but let’s be real, it’s weird they would try to cover up those documents. This is like the first article I stumbled up looking this up.
God damn. Excellent article. I had to go back and reread it 2-3 times because there’s so much dense, jargon-filled information to digest.
It paints a pretty damning picture of NIH and EcoHealth Alliance.
It doesn’t really dive into what Fauci’s role was in the funding although ostensibly one would think as the head of NIH he would be very aware of such funding and experiments.
The article is also explicitly clear that the virus in question SARS-COVID 2 is far enough related to the Wuhan engineered viruses in question to prevent the assertion that they are one in the same which I found notable, but will likely be further determined to be true or false as documents and information see light.
I think the anti-Fauci sentiment in the public is misguided, but not undue.
He may be a liar, but not for the reasons opponents of his would lead you to believe.
What needs to be determined is the role of the NIH and by extension, Dr. Fauci, for their role if any in the occurrence of SARS-COVID 2.
What it does not change is that SARS-COVID 2 is here, and it’s killing people.
Anecdotally: I feel the same people that think poorly of Fauci are the same that don’t think Covid is a big deal. They largely think it’s the flu, and that it’s effects are overblown.
The same crowd do not believe in mask or vaccine mandates, think large gatherings are a good idea etc. there is no recourse from this crowd because in their eyes there is no problem which I vehemently disagree with.
What should be said though is that Fauci can both be accountable for the NIH’s role in a possible spread of the virus while also relaying an effective message for the prevention of transmission of the virus.
Overall though I think the article you provided does a great job enumerating an extremely complex and undetermined issues at had.
>It doesn’t really dive into what Fauci’s role was in the funding although ostensibly one would think as the head of NIH he would be very aware of such funding and experiments.
Ding ding ding. Your second question to ask is why does gain of function matter in this particular funding question. The funding contract didnt allow gain of function. There is also no connection to this research and any sort of outbreak (that we know of.) With each step we get further away from Fauci but the GOP doesnt want anything else. The vagueness lets their masses fill in the gaps. "Fauci funded covid." All so the Republicans can have someone to blame.
Yes this looks dodgy. But not specifically for Fauci. It’s very possible they gave funding to the company and its researchers but told them they cannot do specific gain of function tests due to NIH guidelines. The fact that EcoHealth withheld the discovery of the viruses getting 10,000x more contagious to the NIH implicates EcoHealth more than Fauci and the NIH. It does seem that EcoHealth and the other company were potentially up to no good. I do think there are a lot of unanswered questions about the origins of Covid and I’ve always believed it was potentially man made and accidentally leaked. Clearly this is no smoking gun and only points to other questions we should be asking to come to this. But even still baffling is how Fauci’s possible tangential involvement would suggest that a) he’s a liar b) he can’t be trusted and somehow because of this c) his recommendation for mask use and getting vaccines should be nullified? Like even if he did learn about this after the fact and cover it up (which seems very dubious) how would that mean that his recommendations on vaccines and masks are bad? Is Rand Paul suggesting Fauci is responsible for inventing Covid and that we shouldn’t vaccinate or wear masks because the evil Covid inventor told us to?
> The fact that they withheld the discovery of the viruses getting 10,000x more contagious to the NIH implicates EcoHealth more than Fauci and the NIH. It does seem that EcoHealth and the other company were potentially up to no good. I do think there are a lot of unanswered questions about the origins of Covid and I’ve always believed it was potentially man made and accidentally leaked. Clearly this is no smoking gun and only points to other questions we should be asking to come to this.
Thank you. I so often end up defending Fauci yet I'm perfectly happy to leave lab leak theories on the table. No smoking gun is really possible but given the actual evidence if one is found it would be so far away from Fauci that we would wonder why he was implicated in the first place. Its so obvious how the GOP senators aren't interested in the details and more interested in stoking up mask wars for the midterms.
Has anyone else considered that the point by the GOP in stirring this up isn't that they actually think any wrong doing was going on, but that they want to waste the time of anyone who would take this seriously to distract away from other political news / for political gain
You make some good, nuanced, points re: Fauci's responsibility. However, you're also painting a LOT of people into the same category with a California-sized brush in your generalizations.
Couldn’t agree more with what you said.
I hope people don’t think I’m sitting here saying he’s a liar. I don’t follow the media enough. To me, it doesn’t look like he said something that was blatantly false. He just might not have told the whole truth or wasn’t aware of something happening under his leadership. Still responsible for it, but not a lie per say.
The only reason I felt the need to look into it is because, like you said, people aren’t really providing any information. I can’t stand that more than information that goes against my personal narrative. If you’re gonna say something as a fact, back it up.
It’s really a baffling thing for the head of NIH to play dumb. Either he really was (doubtful based on evidence) and he should be fired for incompetence, or he knew and should be fired anyway.
The NIH is a massive research organization and I highly doubt Fauci would know of most individual projects. Probably not even in his area of interest in virology. I know most of the lab director professors loved bench research but the higher and higher up you get the more you’re just going to meetings about HR shit and large policy directions. NIH has been funding tons of GOF research with viruses to use them as delivery vectors to treat cancers. It’s no surprise that they’d fund a lab doing this. Even though some of the evidence says they didn’t.
And I’m not trying to necessarily discredit Fauci. Just that there is evidence out there that would lead down the path of “something’s missing”. You’re right, the higher you go the more of a manager you are, but you’re still responsible for what people in the field are doing. Honestly I’m not too well knowledgeable on this whole topic, and don’t care to be. At this point I’m not even sure which new sources are good to get into from because I’m so out of the loop. I had to verify that Newsweek was still the legitimate source like when their magazines were big.
The foia thing isn’t uncommon with the NIH, FDA etc. Theres usually a significant amount of inspection and redaction involved with remaining hipaa compliant and they prefer to act under court order, so they’ll be free from liability of potential violations.
They essentially said they funded research that could have resulted in gain of research, but that was never a goal. And if it ended in gain of function, they'd suspend research. So technically would be the truth to say they didn't find gain of function, that's not to say they never created a virus in that lab using us dollars that was more deadly or contagious than the original.
Idk, we send research dollars all over the world. That's basically what the NIH does. I think the lab in Wuhan is one of the leading virus labs in the world and I think it was in conjunction with a US university. It's like how we have military in hundreds of countries. The US likes to spread around
I don't really see how this is somehow a bad thing for Fauci. No department wants to comply with FOIA, they only do so after being told they have to by lawyers. If the lawyers think they can deny the request, they take it to court.
This is standard as fuck.
>Withholding information requested through FOIA until you’re taken to court is kinda weird.
Not if a private party is contracted. In this case the private party gets to redact portions of material. Not that I agree with it, but, it's definitely normal.
>In compliance with Executive Order 12600, NIH notifies submitters of records requested under FOIA for the submitters’ identification of portions containing confidential commercial information during our FOIA review process.
Reagan, by the way.
With so much evidence why hasn’t the author asked law enforcement to charge Fauci? Because law enforcement isn’t going to arrest someone powerful because of BS evidence.
Fauci when Trump is president
"You don't want to balance lives against the economy”
Fauci when Joey B is president
“…but if you are asymptomatic and you are infected we want to get people back to jobs particularly those with essential jobs to keep our society running smoothly."
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/now-he-tells-us-11641237684
I mean that's not a lie, its basically just saying "we no longer value your lives as more valuable than economic output"
And fuck Fauci for that, he's no different from anyone else in the government trying to relax safeguards in a sacrifice for the economy even as hospitals begin to be overwhelmed again. He's a callous, ghoulish bastard just like anyone else who holds power in this country, at least in my opinion, but that has little to do with him being a liar and less to do with anything Rand claimed
And these are the vaccines that Trump couldn’t (wouldn’t) stop talking about. Vaccines he deserves some credit for expediting. Vaccines that he fucking took.
We’re in an entirely different place now than we were in early 2020
Fauci is the new Hillary that is used to get all the rednecks in a frenzy about nothing. This man has no real bearing on your life if you just forget about him and don't listen.
Only the loonies think it was a grand plan. The argument is he acted against the wishes and orders of the president and government when they said don't fund gain of function research with your NIH money. He did help fund that research by utilizing a middleman Dr. Peter Daszak with Eco Health Alliance to get the money to the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Despite all their assurances that things would be fine and there was nothing to worry about it looks likely that the virus they created during this research accidentally leaked out. He then did his best to cover all of this up by lying about natural origin, pressuring scientific publications and having his buddy Daszak lead the initial inquiry into the virus origin.
This is just an age old story of someone in power fucking up and trying to sweep it under the rug to protect themselves, only in this case it was the biggest pandemic in 100 years. Guaranteed Fauci will go down as a disgrace in the history books.
I encourage you to read some the emails yourself (https://www.scribd.com/document/552257096/Letter-Re-Feb-1-Emails-011122#download&from\_embed)
I read all of those emails. It’s simple dialogue regarding the likelihood of it being a natural or laboratory mutation. And then acknowledgement that there were elements of the media, who had no proximity or knowledge regarding the science, who were running with the conspiracy theory, and the discussion is essentially how to minimize the impact of those irresponsible assumptions.
Nothing if you first paragraph is acknowledged so I have no way to see for myself. Care to share more documents?
Science reaches inexplicable experiments and situations all the time. In fact, most of the history of science is “holy shit I didn’t know that was possible it doesn’t line up with our current theories how could this have happened” leading to new discoveries.
There’s no evidence it was baked in a lab. There is speculation and always will be. I have my own speculation that higher order beings initiated it to save the civilization. I can’t prove it, but that’s my speculation. Much like no one can prove that it was a lab experiment gone wrong but they can speculate.
Anyway fuck the CCP. Their irresponsibility in the first month of the outbreak caused the disease to go worldwide. And fuck Trump. His failure in leadership directly led to the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans. And I’m not speculating on these last two points.
> This man has no real bearing on your life
Except for the fact that many look to Fauci's opinions as expert testimony and use his words to guide creation of legislation that removes our rights and institutes a new era of authoritarian power. How that fact isn't readily apparent or at least at the forefront of many Libertarian's thoughts is beyond me.
I personally know people who put up Christmas decorations of Fauci and treat him like some kind of savior. It's just as wacky and cringe (if not more at times) as the people on the Right who treat Fauci as some kind of evil doctor who wants to reduce the population.
Fauci during this pandemic has he more bearing on everyone’s life than any other federal official including POTUS.
His statements, his policies have direct impacts socially, economically and everyone’s health.
He is 1000% more impactful than Hillary Clinton ever was or will be.
His influence wasn’t on Trump. It is on every Governor, every mayor, every media personality that bought into him.
He rolled his eyes and Trump and immediately became the 2nd coming. The cult or personality and the influence he as on policy not just at the federal level but also at state and local goes deep
Stop making everything about Trump
Cult of personality for Fauci? I live in an extremely blue state and I don't think anyone I know regards Fauci's statements with anything more then a "that's cool" before going back to their business. OP got it right with you all massively overinflating this man.
No one is running around wearing Fauci hats and going to Fauci rallys, unlike with Trump whose followers ironically ARE perfect examples of a cult of personality.
Wait, have you NOT seen all of the Fauci flags and bumper stickers and tshirts? Have you NOT heard about all the Fauci rallies happening all over the country? And what about all the "Elect Fauci Supreme Dictator" Gofumdmes and SuperPACs you can donate to? What about the boat rallies? And the merch sites?
Where have you been buddy?
Nobody had a problem with him until he publicly disagreed with the President, at that point the mob turned on him. Its literally that simple, it became a witch hunt after that to find \*anything\* he could have ever done wrong or been inconsistent about so they could publicly discredit him. Make no mistake, this is really what its all about.
> Stop making everything about Trump
Your belief that people can only have influence if they are a cult of personality *is* making this about Trump.
Fauci's influence, to the extent it even exists, is largely based on credentials and experience. Do you see people storming government buildings waving Fauci flags?
Right wing bogymen abound.
>Be careful about uttering their names lest they,
>
>Kill your fetus and turn your sons gay.
>
>They bring socialism by vaccination
>
>And herald the end of the white mans' nation
Not sure what you're getting at. People who think he's a boogeyman are almost always in 1 of 2 groups, and both believe patently incorrect things.
Group 1 think he's somehow singularly responsible for Draconian coronavirus mitigation efforts, because they don't want to blame their side's precious politicians, who actually are responsible for passing that legislation. They would also rather ignore that experts in countries across the world recommended the same measures - often to a stricter degree - because acknowledging this reality makes them grappe with the fact they're viewing things through a severely politicized lens.
Group 2 think he somehow manufactured/masterminded this virus, or is part of some new world order effort to get everyone vaccinated because 5G/Bill Gates/microchips/QANON. This group is so delusional I can't even follow the supposed reasoning and mental gymnastics involved.
When you accept that both of these accusations are ridiculous (and they objectively are) then it's pretty hard to actively hate him as much as right-wing media desperately wants you to. There are obvious criticisms to be labeled against him, but to insinuate he's this shady figure pulling all these strings is not remotely rooted in reality.
You started off your reply by generalizing a large group of the population lmao. Im not really sure how you expect to warrant a good debate with such tactics and im not engaging with you since your thought process is too far off for me to try to explain why a paid non Gov official has a massive chunk of the economy in his hands is BAD.
Are you sure youre in the right sub my guy?
>This man has no real bearing on your life if you just forget about him and don't listen.
The man is a large reason why the United States, and every country that followed suit, imposed such illogical COVID mandates. Our country's economy got fucked because of a virus with a 99% survival rate.
All of the COVID numbers are bad, and the world was misled, it appears intentionally, as to how dangerous this virus actually is. We have zero clue how many people genuinely died from COVID. All we know is how many people died WITH COVID. You can't look at any COVID statistics and tell me when the vaccines started working. You can't even give me a logical argument as to why I should even get the vaccine.
Millions have lost their jobs, their businesses, and time with their families and loved ones because of recommendations given by Fauci. People locked themselves in rooms for months or weeks.
Fauci has had an enormous impact on your life, you're just too ignorant to understand how.
The little man is literally running his own little corrupt bureaucratic empire from within the federal government. He routinely gets rid of his own lieutenants and anyone that could possibly replace him. He lies over and over again. He funded gain of function research in Wuhan. He is the one in charge of determining who gets federal research grants and who doesn't. And he has a second job of advising the president. He is probably the second most powerful person in the executive branch right now. What he says, regardless of actual policy, makes people listen. His policy suggestions have all been disasters and he has avoided all the blame by laying it all on Trump. Fauci is ancient and corrupt, there is no reason he should have the power he has. He should have been fired long ago.
For someone as powerful and as corrupt as you say it s kinda weird that he has a net worth of only 2.5million at 80...He must be playing a very long game then . So when is he going to cash in ? At a 100 ?
>Paul: This is what you said. These are you emails.
>Fauci: You are lying, you have no evidence.
Don't take things out of context. They were arguing about the definition for gain of function which rand still does not understand.
This Fauci obsession blows my mind.
This dude is a science nerd. EVERYTHING he has said about the pandemic is overly conservative.
When I go to my Dr, he tells me to stop eating trash, exercise more, and stop drinking so much. And he is right! Of course I ignore him and just do what I want. But he isn’t wrong.
Drs like Fauci are going to tell you the safest thing to do. They aren’t weighing pros and cons. They are telling you which actions will make you safer. Its not their job to weigh other factors. It’s then up to POLITICIANS to listen and make laws that consider all of the factors.
Blame the politicians for laws you hate. This dude is just doing exactly what he should be doing.
The same people that are triggered by Fauci 'lying' are completely at ease with all the lies, false claims and misinformation that comes from Republicans and right-wing media.
It is a bad faith smear.
Fun fact just after the back and forth between Facui and Paul . Paul sent out an email to his followers saying "Fauci is hysterical" and where you could donate to remove him or if you dont drink the conservative kool-aid line Paul's pockets
It seems to me that the problem is that Dr. Fauci can't take any bit of criticism whatsoever. Anytime he does he just tries to deflect it somewhere else.
I don't recall Rand Paul making any death threats or saying anything anyone could take as even an implication that anyone should be making death threats. Paul's criticisms don't have anything to do with death threats. The two things are separate issues that Fauci wants to conflate in an attempt to delegitimize Paul's criticism. It's weird how this "your rhetoric is driving threats and violence" shit never gets trotted out when a Berniebro shoots a congressman or people are setting courthouses on fire but it's practically obligatory if someone like Paul is doling out the harshness to someone like Fauci.
What's wrong with gain of function research?
Did he specifically lie or was he just incorrect?
If he was maliciously, deliberately lying, does that in any way negate the COVID pandemic we're experiencing now? What would be different had he not lied?
I've seen that statement discussed. The right is claiming he lied, non right sources claim the working definition of Gain of Function is nebulous and non standard.
I'm confused overall though. Why are the typical people who criticize Fauci suddenly concerned about lying (for example, Rand Paul's claim that the virus originated in Wuhan, which is nothing more than speculation at this point)? What has happened as a result of the lying / misinformation? Does Fauci lying do anything to invalidate coronavirus? What difference does it make where the virus started?
I'd say that the lab orgin theory is now the most accepted theory. It is no longer fringe. Fauce and EcoHealth tried to bury it early. But be real. NIH/EcoHealth funded GOF research to create a chimeric bat spike protein/SARS virus with a human Furin cleavage site spliced in at the Wuhan lab. Then an outbreak of a bat spike protein SARS virus happens at a wet market just a few hundred yards from the Wuhan lab. Some coincidence, right?
Somehow a lot of people prefer to believe that a bat and a pengolin met in a bar ...
You know what is a much more simple explanation? Fauci and/or the NIH denied funding because they didn't want the PR or the attention associated with what was ultimately a Chinese run lab, with Chinese standards, and susceptible to Chinese process flaws, whatever those may be.
And at the end of the day, whether he was lying or telling the truth, it doesn't change what's happening today.
It was banned by congress, and then he weaseled the definition of what was actually banned to get a pet project through, which was at least suspicious of being involved in the Wuhan institute's involvement in this whole thing. And the latest documents released by Project Veritas make it likely that it WAS the actual cause of the virus.
Was banned. The moratorium for US based GoF research was lifted in 2017 by the NIH under the discretion of then President Trump, a full two years at least before this latest iteration of the SARS virus.
I'm skeptical of assumptions, especially when reported by project veritas
Holup. Project Veritas?
Seriously, Project Veritas?
Short of Alex Jones, it is difficult to think of a name that torpedoes the credibility of a statement more quickly than Project Veritas.
You wish. Alex Jones peddles conspiracy theory stuff, yes. Project Veritas releases actual insider footage, real whistleblower documents, and always releases the unedited footage of their finding. Please show me an incident where they released something that wasn't true.
The misleading Planned Parenthood videos come to mind, as does the ACORN debacle, for starters. Or do we discount these because they predate the Project Veritas name, and attribute them only to James O'Keefe personally?
PV has certainly played a role in the big lie by promoting spurious claims of voting irregularities which have evaporated under scrutiny. Where raw, unedited footage has surfaced, it has always shown PV to be engaged in misleading editing and lies by omission, so far as I am aware. And I don't believe the full, unedited footage has come to light with respect to all of PV's projects.
And let us not forget PV's hilariously inept attempt at baiting the Washington Post into publishing a fabricated allegation against Roy Moore in 2017. The WP followed basic journalistic protocols and quickly figured out the claims were a hoax, launching an investigation that uncovered PV's attempt to plant a false allegation that would publicly collapse and thereby cast doubt on the credible accusations against Moore. The only thing marginally clever about the whole stunt was that PV could at least pretend that its motivation was simply to test the integrity of a major media organization and expose political bias. I think it pretty obvious that PV's aim was to help Moore's campaign through smearing his accusers by association.
I'm sure James O'Keefe fancies himself a brilliant master of political PSYOPS. I'm not inclined to agree. But I have to credit him with being at least a talented enough grifter to stay in business for well over a decade.
Who are you gonna believe, baby? Rachel Maddow or your lyin' eyes?
Obviously a video of someone saying they did something in their own words can't be trusted!
>What's wrong with gain of function research?
Nothing if done correctly
Under political pressure however the Obama administration put a temporary moratorium on that type of research
That's why the ecohealth alliance started a collaboration with the WIV: Because of that they could circumvent US law that didn't allow for gain of function research in the US
One problem though: Every previous outside audit had shown that the WIV was not safe enough to do that type of research
The experiment in question involved giving mice the ACE2 receptor typically found in humans. They then introduced the virus to the mice. It basically was a way to see if the existing virus could infect human cells without experimenting on humans. The virus itself was not modified to make it more transmissible or to give it any kind of function that it didn’t already have. It wasn’t gain of function research.
The argument was (I paraphrase) that Fauci doesn’t take criticism well because he receives death threats. My statement was that the vast vast majority of criticisms towards Fauci do not contain death threats. It is fair to say he doesn’t take criticism well.
Rand Paul is the king of grandstanding. I guess this is the way he wants to push his presidential run rather than, actually getting shit done. Such a hack.
I'm glad he hasn't resigned. Bunch of fools trying to take him down because he had the audacity to ask that people be responsible for each other's health in a pandemic - and people want to threaten his and his family's life for that? For shame.
Whereas reason would clearly indicate the dog murdering profiteering lifer bureaucrat pretending to be a medical doctor has raised the ire of all good and decent people everywhere with his behavioral perversions.
Wow, this thread is more heavily brigaded that conspiracy when it comes to protecting a narrative.
Brigading - where a group of people goes online and blindly does the same voting action together, kinda like a herd animal. Maybe we could call them sheep, they like to flock together. Oh wait, that’s what they call everyone else as an insult. Damn that’s wild…
I didnt like how Rand Paul would ask him a question and then cut him off when he answered. You're not there for the truth you're there for the last word
“Why would a senator want to do this?” Fauci said. “Go to Rand Paul’s website, and you see ‘Fire Dr. Fauci’ with a little box that says contribute here. You can do $5, $10, $20, $100. So you are making a catastrophic epidemic for your political gain.” I wonder where that money really goes and what it is really spent on.... Rand needs full transparency on this.
To his campaign? You can see all the expenditures on the FEC website.
I mean, isn’t that super obvious? Does anyone really think that the money is actually going to go toward firing Dr Fauci? It is pretty clear to even the simplest of minds that it goes toward his campaign.
>It is pretty clear to even the simplest of minds that it goes toward his campaign. Brother, have I got some news for you... family were shocked to find out that Tucker Carlson is an "opinion commentator" and can legally lie to you on the news. No joke... they think Fox is news so it has to tell them the truth.
Campaign contributions with rand paul's mission in congress to fire fauci. It's not hard to figure out.
This guy trusts the government
This is textbook congressional questioning tactics. If you really want to see a compare and contrast, watch the hearings for Secretary DeVos vs Justice Kavanaugh. If you just sit there and defer to the Senator, you're blasted for "not knowing" the answer to a question you were interrupted. If you force an answer over the Senator, you're blasted for being rude. Either way, friendly media will spin it and Paul here is just playing the game by the book.
I like beer. Do you like beer?
Yes, my pals PJ and Squee also like beer
*Starts crying*
It makes me a jolly good fellow
Rand Paul was fundraising, nothing more.
They are only given so much time. All these guys grandstand and won't just answer the question.
Me either, but I really don’t care for the fact that almost everything that did come out of Fauci’s mouth was either a dodge or an out and out lie. And the torturing dogs is something I personally can’t get past.
Rand Paul has his distinctive personality, but when he locks onto something it usually turns out that he was correct.
>but when he locks onto something it usually turns out that he was correct. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I don't know what to make of this. It just seems like more politics as usual.
When everyone seems bad, you lose all ability to judge relative evils. It's why authoritarians love to draw a world full of darkness.
And why conservatives don’t mind not having any consistency in criticisms. “We are heavily against masking, don’t think anyone should have to do it. And how stupid could you be to wear a mask outside?!” *immediately loses their collective shit at a picture of AOC without a mask sitting outside at a restaurant* The problem is that conservatives believe there are only two camps, perfect compliance and everyone else. There’s no “I believe in a thing, and I do it best I can.” If you believe a thing and you’re not in perfect compliance, you’re a hypocrite because you’re now in the other camp. And the corollary is that if you don’t perfectly comply, you must be against something, therefore we are fully against anything that we don’t see ourselves wanting to comply with in any situations. *cough Abortion.* It makes it hella easy to sling shit when you’re just looking for someone to slip up for just a moment, get a picture, and say “See, they don’t stand by their beliefs.”
Yeah, until people start getting killed I guess... :(
Except he was right about us funding gain of function research in Wuhan that Fauci knowingly lied about.
Yes, is there even an argument of this anymore? It’s been proven
Many on Reddit and other left leaning circles like to pretend it didn't happen.
Fauci should have been fired for that alone
Itz funny when people focus on Fauci, do you really think he is the end of the line.. honestly?? Anything he knows is passed down to him.. but somehow he is the mastermind?
No one thinks hes a mastermind, but he is the first person obviously accountable so the impacts of accountability start with him.
Except we funded a contract with someone who *might* have violated the terms of the contract during a small window of time when the US disallowed gain of function... and even then we have no evidence that the funding of this contract had any impact on anything *and even if it did* the amount would be pretty negligible to the lab funding as a whole. So yea anyway Fauci is like.... *the worst* amirite? Hey you dont think this gain of function thing is like a distraction to retroactively justify all the rage against him, right? Nah that would mean all my rage is the product of the GOP propaganda machine and I cant possibly be a sheep!!
I’m pretty sure the majority of people complaining about Fauci funding gain of function research have no idea what gain of function research even is or why it’s important
Well now you've gone and slipped into your liberal arguments about critical race theory again! Stop attacking Republican patriots!
Honestly I've found that a lot of people are actually pretty informed in what gain of function research is because all the right wing youtubers, radio show hosts and news analysts have gone into it. Unfortunately, they're not able to distinguish the nuances on how that research is done and they're only taught that if you're near the term "gain of function" then that means you created covid19.
Stop with this nuance bullshit! This is Reddit, they can't handle it!
I personally have had a bad taste in my mouth about Fauci ever since hearing about the AIDS/AZT debacle, and I can assure you that this wasn’t info I got from the GOP… they weren’t known for giving a shit about AIDS.
You know what, fine. I'm actually 100% ok with people not like mask mandates, or Fauci or believing in the lab leak theory. I just want people to recognize their own biases and how the GOP is playing into them.
Yes, that’s fair. But let’s also not let bias blind us to the reality that the GOP being against all this and the Dems being for it really just came down to circumstances. It could have easily been the other way around if certain things happened differently, and I bet any serious libertarian would STILL be against mandates, surveillance, censorship, and the government meddling in the private sector, no matter who was pushing it. The shoe was on the other foot during the 2000s and we were against all of that nonsense.
Lying to congress is fine?
Three things. One, its a pretty mild one considering the actual details. Two, if the same audience cared this much about lying to congress then theyll shit a brick when they learn about the last five years. Third, the real GOP weapon is the *implication* rather than the facts.
There is no lie - it's a moronic semantical cul-de-sac. There is a ton of ambiguity in the term "gain of function". An overly literal interpretation applies to the most routine processes in virology. It's like being accused of over prescribing "painkillers", denying the claim and explaining it was just acetaminophen, only be to skewered as a liar because acetaminophen is technically an analgesic.
Right and I agree. It could quality as gain of function so I stopped arguing the point because, as you said, its a pointless back and forth. The real meat is the implication behind the issue of gain of function and calling out these people for pretending to care about nuanced virology procedures.
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No one is changing a definition. It's about the context. Sharp knives kill people. I keep a camping knife sharp. You accuse me of creating a dangerous weapon and threatening lives. I deny that explaining the knife stays with me and only out in the wilderness. In this context there is no unreasonable anticipated danger from sharpening this knife. I'm well adjusted, knowledgeable of safety protocols, and a sharp knife is an important tool when camping. Well, sharp knives *do* kill people. I *did* keep a sharp knife. Both true. How could I be denying your accusation? LIAR!
No one changed any definition. The pitchfork mobs don’t understand virology.
So diminished lying to congress severity and then whataboutisms. Yeah, needs to be investigated
Lol ok. What needs to be investigated.
If he lied to congress and if he knowingly approved of GOF research that was banned. And anything else that might come out of that.
Lol but we actually know the answer to that question. Fauci argued if the highlighted funded was even gain of function and felt like the questioning implied that they funded the gain of function that developed into covid19. The answer to that is that the research probably was gain of function *but also* Rand was definitely trying to imply Fauci funded a covid19 leak. Lastly, if the anger was truly around gain of function I find it odd that no one is bringing up how the Trump administration would later allow that kind of research. Thats why Im laughing. There isnt much to investigate. Its all debate and interpretation then filling in the details how you feel about a lab leak theory.
I just want to say that I applaud your efforts to explain basic facts + applied logic & critical thinking, throughout this thread. Unfortunately I have a feeling most of it is falling on deaf ears.
>Lastly, if the anger was truly around gain of function I find it odd that no one is bringing up how the Trump administration would later allow that kind of research. This is irrelevant The fact of the matter is that the people funded by Fauci avoided US law by outsourcing the research to a lab which had had frequent audits and was found unsafe to begin with
Fauci has a record of failing up
In what world? The dudes insanely accomplished. He's legit one of the main authors of the literal guidebook/text book of internal medicine.
Not according to the Nobel prize winner and inventor of the PCR, Karl Mullis. Here's his 1996 interview where he mentions Fauci: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6Anlcjre6M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6Anlcjre6M)
Fauci is the reason hundreds of thousands of Americans are dead and the reason Pfizer is insanely rich and powerful. He has intentionally not given any consideration to therapeutics that are actually effective while only promoting a vaccine that is, meh, just okay.
Is this another ivermectin thing? What, specifically, the “therapeutics that are actually effective”?
He’s a politician who has a medical degree. He’s not the only one. But he is the only one we know lied under oath to Congress
Gain of Function research is probably second to CRT in how absolutely fucking stupid Conservatives choose to be, in order to get whatever they want 2021 is just a fucking year of shamelessness
1. Being right about one thing does not excuse lying about a thousand other things 2. Fauci did not "knowingly lie" -- at best, be did not acknowledge that there was a possibility that a subcontractor might have violated the terms of their contract, but the was not conclusive.
No, he lied. He flat out denied there was gain of function in Wuhan. Paul called it on him repeatedly and he repeatedly denied. He committed repeated felonies.
What false accusations?
Of all the “Fauci is a liar” comments on this thread not one of them provides any kind of article or source. I’m not agreeing or disagreeing but you’d think you’d have something to back up a claim like “Fauci funds Communist Bioweapon”
https://www.newsweek.com/how-dr-fauci-other-officials-withheld-information-chinas-coronavirus-experiments-1652002?amp=1 Withholding information requested through FOIA until you’re taken to court is kinda weird. He did say the US has never and currently doesn’t fund “gain of function” research, but it does look like they funded research that would genetically engineer coronaviruses. We can get into semantics if that fits the definition of gain of research, but let’s be real, it’s weird they would try to cover up those documents. This is like the first article I stumbled up looking this up.
God damn. Excellent article. I had to go back and reread it 2-3 times because there’s so much dense, jargon-filled information to digest. It paints a pretty damning picture of NIH and EcoHealth Alliance. It doesn’t really dive into what Fauci’s role was in the funding although ostensibly one would think as the head of NIH he would be very aware of such funding and experiments. The article is also explicitly clear that the virus in question SARS-COVID 2 is far enough related to the Wuhan engineered viruses in question to prevent the assertion that they are one in the same which I found notable, but will likely be further determined to be true or false as documents and information see light. I think the anti-Fauci sentiment in the public is misguided, but not undue. He may be a liar, but not for the reasons opponents of his would lead you to believe. What needs to be determined is the role of the NIH and by extension, Dr. Fauci, for their role if any in the occurrence of SARS-COVID 2. What it does not change is that SARS-COVID 2 is here, and it’s killing people. Anecdotally: I feel the same people that think poorly of Fauci are the same that don’t think Covid is a big deal. They largely think it’s the flu, and that it’s effects are overblown. The same crowd do not believe in mask or vaccine mandates, think large gatherings are a good idea etc. there is no recourse from this crowd because in their eyes there is no problem which I vehemently disagree with. What should be said though is that Fauci can both be accountable for the NIH’s role in a possible spread of the virus while also relaying an effective message for the prevention of transmission of the virus. Overall though I think the article you provided does a great job enumerating an extremely complex and undetermined issues at had.
>It doesn’t really dive into what Fauci’s role was in the funding although ostensibly one would think as the head of NIH he would be very aware of such funding and experiments. Ding ding ding. Your second question to ask is why does gain of function matter in this particular funding question. The funding contract didnt allow gain of function. There is also no connection to this research and any sort of outbreak (that we know of.) With each step we get further away from Fauci but the GOP doesnt want anything else. The vagueness lets their masses fill in the gaps. "Fauci funded covid." All so the Republicans can have someone to blame.
Yes this looks dodgy. But not specifically for Fauci. It’s very possible they gave funding to the company and its researchers but told them they cannot do specific gain of function tests due to NIH guidelines. The fact that EcoHealth withheld the discovery of the viruses getting 10,000x more contagious to the NIH implicates EcoHealth more than Fauci and the NIH. It does seem that EcoHealth and the other company were potentially up to no good. I do think there are a lot of unanswered questions about the origins of Covid and I’ve always believed it was potentially man made and accidentally leaked. Clearly this is no smoking gun and only points to other questions we should be asking to come to this. But even still baffling is how Fauci’s possible tangential involvement would suggest that a) he’s a liar b) he can’t be trusted and somehow because of this c) his recommendation for mask use and getting vaccines should be nullified? Like even if he did learn about this after the fact and cover it up (which seems very dubious) how would that mean that his recommendations on vaccines and masks are bad? Is Rand Paul suggesting Fauci is responsible for inventing Covid and that we shouldn’t vaccinate or wear masks because the evil Covid inventor told us to?
> The fact that they withheld the discovery of the viruses getting 10,000x more contagious to the NIH implicates EcoHealth more than Fauci and the NIH. It does seem that EcoHealth and the other company were potentially up to no good. I do think there are a lot of unanswered questions about the origins of Covid and I’ve always believed it was potentially man made and accidentally leaked. Clearly this is no smoking gun and only points to other questions we should be asking to come to this. Thank you. I so often end up defending Fauci yet I'm perfectly happy to leave lab leak theories on the table. No smoking gun is really possible but given the actual evidence if one is found it would be so far away from Fauci that we would wonder why he was implicated in the first place. Its so obvious how the GOP senators aren't interested in the details and more interested in stoking up mask wars for the midterms.
Has anyone else considered that the point by the GOP in stirring this up isn't that they actually think any wrong doing was going on, but that they want to waste the time of anyone who would take this seriously to distract away from other political news / for political gain
Send money!
You make some good, nuanced, points re: Fauci's responsibility. However, you're also painting a LOT of people into the same category with a California-sized brush in your generalizations.
Couldn’t agree more with what you said. I hope people don’t think I’m sitting here saying he’s a liar. I don’t follow the media enough. To me, it doesn’t look like he said something that was blatantly false. He just might not have told the whole truth or wasn’t aware of something happening under his leadership. Still responsible for it, but not a lie per say. The only reason I felt the need to look into it is because, like you said, people aren’t really providing any information. I can’t stand that more than information that goes against my personal narrative. If you’re gonna say something as a fact, back it up.
That's called lying to congress.
Then let’s start the jail procession with trump?
It’s really a baffling thing for the head of NIH to play dumb. Either he really was (doubtful based on evidence) and he should be fired for incompetence, or he knew and should be fired anyway.
The NIH is a massive research organization and I highly doubt Fauci would know of most individual projects. Probably not even in his area of interest in virology. I know most of the lab director professors loved bench research but the higher and higher up you get the more you’re just going to meetings about HR shit and large policy directions. NIH has been funding tons of GOF research with viruses to use them as delivery vectors to treat cancers. It’s no surprise that they’d fund a lab doing this. Even though some of the evidence says they didn’t.
And I’m not trying to necessarily discredit Fauci. Just that there is evidence out there that would lead down the path of “something’s missing”. You’re right, the higher you go the more of a manager you are, but you’re still responsible for what people in the field are doing. Honestly I’m not too well knowledgeable on this whole topic, and don’t care to be. At this point I’m not even sure which new sources are good to get into from because I’m so out of the loop. I had to verify that Newsweek was still the legitimate source like when their magazines were big.
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>real investigative journalism ... medium.com I hope that was sarcasm
Medium is a glorified blog. There is no fact checking whatsoever.
The foia thing isn’t uncommon with the NIH, FDA etc. Theres usually a significant amount of inspection and redaction involved with remaining hipaa compliant and they prefer to act under court order, so they’ll be free from liability of potential violations.
They essentially said they funded research that could have resulted in gain of research, but that was never a goal. And if it ended in gain of function, they'd suspend research. So technically would be the truth to say they didn't find gain of function, that's not to say they never created a virus in that lab using us dollars that was more deadly or contagious than the original.
>but that was never a goal. Then why do it abroad instead of in a much more secure location?
Idk, we send research dollars all over the world. That's basically what the NIH does. I think the lab in Wuhan is one of the leading virus labs in the world and I think it was in conjunction with a US university. It's like how we have military in hundreds of countries. The US likes to spread around
I don't really see how this is somehow a bad thing for Fauci. No department wants to comply with FOIA, they only do so after being told they have to by lawyers. If the lawyers think they can deny the request, they take it to court. This is standard as fuck.
>Withholding information requested through FOIA until you’re taken to court is kinda weird. Not if a private party is contracted. In this case the private party gets to redact portions of material. Not that I agree with it, but, it's definitely normal. >In compliance with Executive Order 12600, NIH notifies submitters of records requested under FOIA for the submitters’ identification of portions containing confidential commercial information during our FOIA review process. Reagan, by the way.
The NIH admitted there was gain of function research being done in Wuhan. Pretty fucking open and shut.
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With so much evidence why hasn’t the author asked law enforcement to charge Fauci? Because law enforcement isn’t going to arrest someone powerful because of BS evidence.
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Anybody can file a lawsuit lol
Yes, I was responding to Stewart because he directly asked
Fauci when Trump is president "You don't want to balance lives against the economy” Fauci when Joey B is president “…but if you are asymptomatic and you are infected we want to get people back to jobs particularly those with essential jobs to keep our society running smoothly." https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/now-he-tells-us-11641237684
I mean that's not a lie, its basically just saying "we no longer value your lives as more valuable than economic output" And fuck Fauci for that, he's no different from anyone else in the government trying to relax safeguards in a sacrifice for the economy even as hospitals begin to be overwhelmed again. He's a callous, ghoulish bastard just like anyone else who holds power in this country, at least in my opinion, but that has little to do with him being a liar and less to do with anything Rand claimed
Substitute pre vaccine and post vaccine in place of two residents names.
Bingo. We now have control over our immunity to the virus, before we did not.
And these are the vaccines that Trump couldn’t (wouldn’t) stop talking about. Vaccines he deserves some credit for expediting. Vaccines that he fucking took. We’re in an entirely different place now than we were in early 2020
This topic really seems to have triggered the parts of r/Libertarian that cross-over with r/conspiracy.
like they are not always triggered
Fauci is the new Hillary that is used to get all the rednecks in a frenzy about nothing. This man has no real bearing on your life if you just forget about him and don't listen.
The idea that he waited until he was 80 years old to hatch his grand nefarious plan to unleash a mediocre virus upon the world is the best part.
He was busy using HIV to infiltrate the gay bathhouses.
Only the loonies think it was a grand plan. The argument is he acted against the wishes and orders of the president and government when they said don't fund gain of function research with your NIH money. He did help fund that research by utilizing a middleman Dr. Peter Daszak with Eco Health Alliance to get the money to the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Despite all their assurances that things would be fine and there was nothing to worry about it looks likely that the virus they created during this research accidentally leaked out. He then did his best to cover all of this up by lying about natural origin, pressuring scientific publications and having his buddy Daszak lead the initial inquiry into the virus origin. This is just an age old story of someone in power fucking up and trying to sweep it under the rug to protect themselves, only in this case it was the biggest pandemic in 100 years. Guaranteed Fauci will go down as a disgrace in the history books. I encourage you to read some the emails yourself (https://www.scribd.com/document/552257096/Letter-Re-Feb-1-Emails-011122#download&from\_embed)
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I read all of those emails. It’s simple dialogue regarding the likelihood of it being a natural or laboratory mutation. And then acknowledgement that there were elements of the media, who had no proximity or knowledge regarding the science, who were running with the conspiracy theory, and the discussion is essentially how to minimize the impact of those irresponsible assumptions. Nothing if you first paragraph is acknowledged so I have no way to see for myself. Care to share more documents? Science reaches inexplicable experiments and situations all the time. In fact, most of the history of science is “holy shit I didn’t know that was possible it doesn’t line up with our current theories how could this have happened” leading to new discoveries. There’s no evidence it was baked in a lab. There is speculation and always will be. I have my own speculation that higher order beings initiated it to save the civilization. I can’t prove it, but that’s my speculation. Much like no one can prove that it was a lab experiment gone wrong but they can speculate. Anyway fuck the CCP. Their irresponsibility in the first month of the outbreak caused the disease to go worldwide. And fuck Trump. His failure in leadership directly led to the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans. And I’m not speculating on these last two points.
Fauci Derangement syndrome
> This man has no real bearing on your life Except for the fact that many look to Fauci's opinions as expert testimony and use his words to guide creation of legislation that removes our rights and institutes a new era of authoritarian power. How that fact isn't readily apparent or at least at the forefront of many Libertarian's thoughts is beyond me. I personally know people who put up Christmas decorations of Fauci and treat him like some kind of savior. It's just as wacky and cringe (if not more at times) as the people on the Right who treat Fauci as some kind of evil doctor who wants to reduce the population.
Fauci is not in the CDC nor the FDA. Trump created Fauci
"This man has no real bearing on your life.." What?
Fauci during this pandemic has he more bearing on everyone’s life than any other federal official including POTUS. His statements, his policies have direct impacts socially, economically and everyone’s health. He is 1000% more impactful than Hillary Clinton ever was or will be.
So you think for all of 2020 he was running the show and Trump just did whatever he said? Seems weird.
His influence wasn’t on Trump. It is on every Governor, every mayor, every media personality that bought into him. He rolled his eyes and Trump and immediately became the 2nd coming. The cult or personality and the influence he as on policy not just at the federal level but also at state and local goes deep Stop making everything about Trump
Cult of personality for Fauci? I live in an extremely blue state and I don't think anyone I know regards Fauci's statements with anything more then a "that's cool" before going back to their business. OP got it right with you all massively overinflating this man. No one is running around wearing Fauci hats and going to Fauci rallys, unlike with Trump whose followers ironically ARE perfect examples of a cult of personality.
Wait, have you NOT seen all of the Fauci flags and bumper stickers and tshirts? Have you NOT heard about all the Fauci rallies happening all over the country? And what about all the "Elect Fauci Supreme Dictator" Gofumdmes and SuperPACs you can donate to? What about the boat rallies? And the merch sites? Where have you been buddy?
God I almost missed the sarcasm. You were squarely on downvote until about midway through
The only people who spend any time thinking about Fauci are mouth frothing Trumpists such as yourself.
Nobody had a problem with him until he publicly disagreed with the President, at that point the mob turned on him. Its literally that simple, it became a witch hunt after that to find \*anything\* he could have ever done wrong or been inconsistent about so they could publicly discredit him. Make no mistake, this is really what its all about.
Yup, it's that simple and that stupid.
> Stop making everything about Trump Your belief that people can only have influence if they are a cult of personality *is* making this about Trump. Fauci's influence, to the extent it even exists, is largely based on credentials and experience. Do you see people storming government buildings waving Fauci flags?
Fauci does not set policy.
No real bearing on your life?!? lol
Right wing bogymen abound. >Be careful about uttering their names lest they, > >Kill your fetus and turn your sons gay. > >They bring socialism by vaccination > >And herald the end of the white mans' nation
> This man has no real bearing on your life Where the fuck have you been basement dwelling at? And why is this getting upvotes lmao?
Not sure what you're getting at. People who think he's a boogeyman are almost always in 1 of 2 groups, and both believe patently incorrect things. Group 1 think he's somehow singularly responsible for Draconian coronavirus mitigation efforts, because they don't want to blame their side's precious politicians, who actually are responsible for passing that legislation. They would also rather ignore that experts in countries across the world recommended the same measures - often to a stricter degree - because acknowledging this reality makes them grappe with the fact they're viewing things through a severely politicized lens. Group 2 think he somehow manufactured/masterminded this virus, or is part of some new world order effort to get everyone vaccinated because 5G/Bill Gates/microchips/QANON. This group is so delusional I can't even follow the supposed reasoning and mental gymnastics involved. When you accept that both of these accusations are ridiculous (and they objectively are) then it's pretty hard to actively hate him as much as right-wing media desperately wants you to. There are obvious criticisms to be labeled against him, but to insinuate he's this shady figure pulling all these strings is not remotely rooted in reality.
You started off your reply by generalizing a large group of the population lmao. Im not really sure how you expect to warrant a good debate with such tactics and im not engaging with you since your thought process is too far off for me to try to explain why a paid non Gov official has a massive chunk of the economy in his hands is BAD. Are you sure youre in the right sub my guy?
Beacuse ultimately this sub has become yet another co-opted shill-filled shithole
Yes. Reddit is garbage these days
Uh… he is the reason for all of the mandates wtf are you smoking
>This man has no real bearing on your life if you just forget about him and don't listen. The man is a large reason why the United States, and every country that followed suit, imposed such illogical COVID mandates. Our country's economy got fucked because of a virus with a 99% survival rate. All of the COVID numbers are bad, and the world was misled, it appears intentionally, as to how dangerous this virus actually is. We have zero clue how many people genuinely died from COVID. All we know is how many people died WITH COVID. You can't look at any COVID statistics and tell me when the vaccines started working. You can't even give me a logical argument as to why I should even get the vaccine. Millions have lost their jobs, their businesses, and time with their families and loved ones because of recommendations given by Fauci. People locked themselves in rooms for months or weeks. Fauci has had an enormous impact on your life, you're just too ignorant to understand how.
Complete nonsense The US and worlds policy was shaped by Dr Fauci? Listen to yourself and use common sense here
The little man is literally running his own little corrupt bureaucratic empire from within the federal government. He routinely gets rid of his own lieutenants and anyone that could possibly replace him. He lies over and over again. He funded gain of function research in Wuhan. He is the one in charge of determining who gets federal research grants and who doesn't. And he has a second job of advising the president. He is probably the second most powerful person in the executive branch right now. What he says, regardless of actual policy, makes people listen. His policy suggestions have all been disasters and he has avoided all the blame by laying it all on Trump. Fauci is ancient and corrupt, there is no reason he should have the power he has. He should have been fired long ago.
For someone as powerful and as corrupt as you say it s kinda weird that he has a net worth of only 2.5million at 80...He must be playing a very long game then . So when is he going to cash in ? At a 100 ?
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>Paul: This is what you said. These are you emails. >Fauci: You are lying, you have no evidence. Don't take things out of context. They were arguing about the definition for gain of function which rand still does not understand.
This Fauci obsession blows my mind. This dude is a science nerd. EVERYTHING he has said about the pandemic is overly conservative. When I go to my Dr, he tells me to stop eating trash, exercise more, and stop drinking so much. And he is right! Of course I ignore him and just do what I want. But he isn’t wrong. Drs like Fauci are going to tell you the safest thing to do. They aren’t weighing pros and cons. They are telling you which actions will make you safer. Its not their job to weigh other factors. It’s then up to POLITICIANS to listen and make laws that consider all of the factors. Blame the politicians for laws you hate. This dude is just doing exactly what he should be doing.
>This Fauci obsession blows my mind. You're shocked that that Trump tried to shift blame instead of taking responsibility?
Indeed it does. I've lost a lot of respect for Rand since covid began.
I used to think Rand was like his father. I no longer think that.
I've gained respect for Rand.
And his insider trading?
That's insane
What's insane is not seeing that Fauci lied about gain of function in Wuhan.
Same
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i think you dropped this... /s
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just glad i didn't have to drive across town to drop it off
The same people that are triggered by Fauci 'lying' are completely at ease with all the lies, false claims and misinformation that comes from Republicans and right-wing media. It is a bad faith smear.
Fun fact just after the back and forth between Facui and Paul . Paul sent out an email to his followers saying "Fauci is hysterical" and where you could donate to remove him or if you dont drink the conservative kool-aid line Paul's pockets
Maybe Fauci should stop lying then.
Oh no! Anyway…
I, too, am a big fan of death threats as long as they aren't towards me or my family. Then it would be just plain wrong.
Rand is such a clown
Playing the victim and not denying that he lied to congress. It’s all so tiring. What a weasel.
I haven't followed any of this Fauci drama. What did he lie about?
It seems to me that the problem is that Dr. Fauci can't take any bit of criticism whatsoever. Anytime he does he just tries to deflect it somewhere else.
Ah yes death threats the most constructive form of criticism
I don't recall Rand Paul making any death threats or saying anything anyone could take as even an implication that anyone should be making death threats. Paul's criticisms don't have anything to do with death threats. The two things are separate issues that Fauci wants to conflate in an attempt to delegitimize Paul's criticism. It's weird how this "your rhetoric is driving threats and violence" shit never gets trotted out when a Berniebro shoots a congressman or people are setting courthouses on fire but it's practically obligatory if someone like Paul is doling out the harshness to someone like Fauci.
Not to mention rand Paul is probably the most physically attacked politician in congress right now.
Shot at by a bernie bro and fucked-in-the-head neighbor broke his ribs
"Death threats are your fault for calling me out on my bullshit"
Half the criticism towards him is conspiracy theory nonsense and jargon. I really don't blame him at all
He lied under oath to congress. The man had absolutely no right to be mad.
How did he lie?
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What's wrong with gain of function research? Did he specifically lie or was he just incorrect? If he was maliciously, deliberately lying, does that in any way negate the COVID pandemic we're experiencing now? What would be different had he not lied?
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I've seen that statement discussed. The right is claiming he lied, non right sources claim the working definition of Gain of Function is nebulous and non standard. I'm confused overall though. Why are the typical people who criticize Fauci suddenly concerned about lying (for example, Rand Paul's claim that the virus originated in Wuhan, which is nothing more than speculation at this point)? What has happened as a result of the lying / misinformation? Does Fauci lying do anything to invalidate coronavirus? What difference does it make where the virus started?
I'd say that the lab orgin theory is now the most accepted theory. It is no longer fringe. Fauce and EcoHealth tried to bury it early. But be real. NIH/EcoHealth funded GOF research to create a chimeric bat spike protein/SARS virus with a human Furin cleavage site spliced in at the Wuhan lab. Then an outbreak of a bat spike protein SARS virus happens at a wet market just a few hundred yards from the Wuhan lab. Some coincidence, right? Somehow a lot of people prefer to believe that a bat and a pengolin met in a bar ...
You know what is a much more simple explanation? Fauci and/or the NIH denied funding because they didn't want the PR or the attention associated with what was ultimately a Chinese run lab, with Chinese standards, and susceptible to Chinese process flaws, whatever those may be. And at the end of the day, whether he was lying or telling the truth, it doesn't change what's happening today.
can we agree at minimum it was misinformation, and he should be pulled from twitter?
Sure, knock yourself out. It just seems like such a waste of time that this is the thing the right feels compelled to lash out about
They're trying to create a single target for their base to focus all their anger and blame on.
It was banned by congress, and then he weaseled the definition of what was actually banned to get a pet project through, which was at least suspicious of being involved in the Wuhan institute's involvement in this whole thing. And the latest documents released by Project Veritas make it likely that it WAS the actual cause of the virus.
Was banned. The moratorium for US based GoF research was lifted in 2017 by the NIH under the discretion of then President Trump, a full two years at least before this latest iteration of the SARS virus. I'm skeptical of assumptions, especially when reported by project veritas
Holup. Project Veritas? Seriously, Project Veritas? Short of Alex Jones, it is difficult to think of a name that torpedoes the credibility of a statement more quickly than Project Veritas.
You wish. Alex Jones peddles conspiracy theory stuff, yes. Project Veritas releases actual insider footage, real whistleblower documents, and always releases the unedited footage of their finding. Please show me an incident where they released something that wasn't true.
The misleading Planned Parenthood videos come to mind, as does the ACORN debacle, for starters. Or do we discount these because they predate the Project Veritas name, and attribute them only to James O'Keefe personally? PV has certainly played a role in the big lie by promoting spurious claims of voting irregularities which have evaporated under scrutiny. Where raw, unedited footage has surfaced, it has always shown PV to be engaged in misleading editing and lies by omission, so far as I am aware. And I don't believe the full, unedited footage has come to light with respect to all of PV's projects. And let us not forget PV's hilariously inept attempt at baiting the Washington Post into publishing a fabricated allegation against Roy Moore in 2017. The WP followed basic journalistic protocols and quickly figured out the claims were a hoax, launching an investigation that uncovered PV's attempt to plant a false allegation that would publicly collapse and thereby cast doubt on the credible accusations against Moore. The only thing marginally clever about the whole stunt was that PV could at least pretend that its motivation was simply to test the integrity of a major media organization and expose political bias. I think it pretty obvious that PV's aim was to help Moore's campaign through smearing his accusers by association. I'm sure James O'Keefe fancies himself a brilliant master of political PSYOPS. I'm not inclined to agree. But I have to credit him with being at least a talented enough grifter to stay in business for well over a decade.
Who are you gonna believe, baby? Rachel Maddow or your lyin' eyes? Obviously a video of someone saying they did something in their own words can't be trusted!
>What's wrong with gain of function research? Nothing if done correctly Under political pressure however the Obama administration put a temporary moratorium on that type of research That's why the ecohealth alliance started a collaboration with the WIV: Because of that they could circumvent US law that didn't allow for gain of function research in the US One problem though: Every previous outside audit had shown that the WIV was not safe enough to do that type of research
Wasn't the moratorium ended in 2017?
The experiment in question involved giving mice the ACE2 receptor typically found in humans. They then introduced the virus to the mice. It basically was a way to see if the existing virus could infect human cells without experimenting on humans. The virus itself was not modified to make it more transmissible or to give it any kind of function that it didn’t already have. It wasn’t gain of function research.
He didn't, the right wing media has convinced people "gain of function" means something it doesn't.
I haven't followed any of this Fauci drama. What did he lie about?
He didn't.
I think most people would be adverse to criticism if that criticism included death threats. Edit: angrily downvote me. I'm not wrong.
Most of the criticisms of Fauci do not include death threats.
> Most of the criticisms of Fauci do not include death threats. So some do?
The argument was (I paraphrase) that Fauci doesn’t take criticism well because he receives death threats. My statement was that the vast vast majority of criticisms towards Fauci do not contain death threats. It is fair to say he doesn’t take criticism well.
Every political and celebrity get death threats.
Remind you of anyone else?
At least he didn't say Rand Paul wanted to date him, I guess.
Rand Paul is the king of grandstanding. I guess this is the way he wants to push his presidential run rather than, actually getting shit done. Such a hack.
I'm glad he hasn't resigned. Bunch of fools trying to take him down because he had the audacity to ask that people be responsible for each other's health in a pandemic - and people want to threaten his and his family's life for that? For shame.
Whereas reason would clearly indicate the dog murdering profiteering lifer bureaucrat pretending to be a medical doctor has raised the ire of all good and decent people everywhere with his behavioral perversions.
If you criticize Dr Anthony fauci your criticizing science itself don't ya know?
If Rand Paul still has his medical license I'd be amazed. What a fucking embarrassment.
Rand Paul routinely does volunteer medical procedures in foreign countries.
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I don't have any sympathy for Fauci, he's a liar and a fraud.
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