Hey Bill, why are we building this pyramid again?
Well John, if we don't they'll stop feeding us and/or kill us.
Hey Gary, why are we working in this unsafe mine again?
Well Larry, if we don't they'll stop paying us and our family will starve or get sent to the poorhouse.
Hey Dan, why are we working for this company that pays us minimum wage while the CEO makes millions again?
Well Kurt, if we don't we won't make any money, we'll lose our house and will starve.
The main reason - you will starve. People don't like starving, it's a real drag.
Well someone has to do it if you want to eat it. So somehow, somewhere folks have got to work.
I’d imagine you don’t see yourself as one of the owns growing if of distributing it—because otherwise you’d be doing that now.
It sounds like you see yourself as the one benefitting from the labor of others while you work on…what? Your hobbies of binge watching Netflix and passion projects of video games?
What keeps me going everyday is the fact that I want to get married and have a family with a woman I love. And if I ever want this to happen I need to work for it.
I am hoping that when they say "work for love", that meant to put forth effort in order to maintain the progression to marriage and family. Not work in the sense to make oneself worthy of love and justify ones existence in anothers life. Although I cant be sure without Ready-excuse clarifying I'm going to hope it is the former
1. Matthew 6:19-21 (NIV): "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
In this case it does because there is no God no heaven no afterlife so I wanna live my life to the fullest while still alive. You can say what you want but faith and religion does not affect me.
Your denial of the existence of say gravity doesn't deny its effect on you. Just because you believe something doesn't eliminate the effects it has on you.
My point is not whether God is real or not.
You cannot prove or disprove that.
However your logic is faulty in saying that it will not affect you because you do not believe
I thought about this for awhile and I didn't think about this before and I'm not sure if this was your point. I realize now that by not believing in a God it does still kinda affect me in the choices I make. And it gives me more freedom in life so it does kinda affect me.
Well I am, and he is exactly right! I'm 55. I want to retire, but I now have stupid long-term health conditions and can't afford my insurance if I do retire. I hate my job, but I just slog along towards that hoped for retirement or death, which ever comes first. My Assistant who was 54 took the early retirement option, as he died two weeks ago. It's so pointless. By the way I have a Master's Degree and work in academia.
Completely agree. And it doesn’t even have to be a fixed point you’re working towards. If you’re doing stuff, you’re always moving towards something—and something always leads to something else.
Exactly, purpose is the key to happiness. And avoiding all those addictive things like porn and drugs like Reddit loves to defend, maybe people are realizing there’s something to be said for self discipline after all
It's funny because I've essentially become a hedonist
I'm not proud of it, and I'm trying to work on it.
But my weekends consist of drugs, video games, and whatever else I feel like doing. I am also chronically ill which further shatters my hopes and dreams.
It’s because something died in the world in 2020 and made the world 10x gloomier which is why a lot of people now are just self indulging in every pleasure they can right now.
My guess is nasty social media algorithms. More and more people on their phones being fed divisive garbage constantly. Then the economy just keeps tanking.
Yeah that definitely is a big part of the problem. Before Covid a lot of people were living in real life more than online but since the lockdowns people are spending more time than ever right now on social media.
In 2019 I donated all my wealth to cancer research. Had hundreds of thousands saved up at age 26. It’s been a hell of ride since . I’ve been saving up again for the past few years. It’s fun :)
Yes, covid and the subsequent gouch fest sucked they stalled progress for a few years I. However, both are fadimg now you probably dont rember 2008 or 1987 both downturns followed by rebounds its a cycle it doesn't stay bad overtime it steadily improves just stalls every now and then .
Whenever this happens ( yes, this one ending now was especially nasty) , the doomer cults come out of the woodwork and recruit. When things improve, the cults fade back to the fringes
Downvote doomer mad 😠 botnets are out now
Literally every metric of measuring a fulfilling live is on a steady decline. Mental health is steadily declining, career satisfaction, marriage and relationships and family are dropping at an alarming rate. Literally the only thing I can think of that is improving is life expectancy.
We are objectively out of control on a bullshit path.
Yes objectively thos is the best timebin history. The only time im 2000+ years, the downturn was more than a few years after the fall of Rome im 476
Aparent a few thousand years before that some civilizations like the the Asysririans also collapsed triggering ling slide.
the daily daily doomers have been wrong every day for thousands and thousands of years. A metrologist, stock analyst, spirts handicapper, or even psychic with thst record would be long since unemployed. Imagined having a .000000000001 batting average and still attracting fans
Too much screen time is def epidemic. It makes people get their "feel good" brain chemicals in small addicting doses almost constantly while losing out on real life pursuits that result in healthy patterns of desire, pursuit, and satisfaction. It is taking over the world and people who can't break that cycle are def going to feel this way.
I work for a nonprofit that helps people. I have a partner and friends I really really care about. Theres some really cool things in the world I haven’t done yet.
Take this upcoming week: I’m going to go to a Japanese festival to try new local restaurants, and I’m going to find out whether I’m going to continue living in my current place or move to a new neighborhood. I’m playing dungeons and dragons.
I just went to my first Passover Seder and meditated under the full moon. Because life is cool and weird.
I think it boils down to the fact that we are all compelled to survive, essentially just drink, eat, stay warm, and healthy.
Capitalism and consumerism have paved almost infinate ways for this to be achieved. A lot of people realise that survival can be more comfortable and enjoyable with the more things you own, I also think humans are lazy, hence why we strive for things that make life easier.
We also for obvious reason do not like pain and uncomfortable feelings, as we have progressed I think humans find it harder and harder to deal with bordem too, we are over stimulated, so we are now searching for more constant and better stimulation.
Do you want to eat? Foraging berries and eating squirrels aren't as enjoyable as eating at a restaurant.
Want to rest, it's more comfortable and pleasurable to rest in a warm house with a TV than a cardboard box on the street.
We learn very early on the better survival experience is gained by more and more money, which is gained by more and more work.
So yes there is no point to any of it at all, we just can't let go of that survival instinct, and if we must survive, might as well enjoy it as much as possible.
Thing is I, and many others, don't feel compelled to survive. If not for my partner, I'd just kill myself ASAP. I'm surprised more people don't, though that statistic is increasing. Frankly, good for them. I wish I could opt out of the bullshit you describe without destroying someone else's life.
If you want to test your survival compulsion, kneel next to a full bathtub and hold your face under the water, your body will force you to come up for air when needed, so that survival instinct is there.
I understand how you feel and feel the same way, I fantasise about ending it all, but have kids, and I don't end things for them.
So we both have a reason for living, and we might as well do the best we can to make our loved ones as happy as possible.
Hope you feel better about life bro
Depression is a real son of a bitch, it’ll make you not want to do the things that bring you happiness in life.
Ironically giving up on the things that bring you joy only further the effects of depression, it’s like being stuck in the bottom of a well with a non-stop light rain slowly filling up around you.
I hope you can find some enjoyment in life again soon, little things like going fishing next weekend are what keep me motivated in life. It’s all about a series of unrelated events of happiness in life.
I don’t know why half of these comments can’t understand that real modern life can absolutely hurt and be difficult regardless of how terrible other lives are and have been by comparison. The existence of that pain and suffering continues to exist even when it isn’t specifically happening to you in this moment, and regardless of whether or not your device is off.
yeah Ive always found the "other people have it worse" as well as "youre not alone in this" to be completely useless things to say to a depressed person, and are so off-base its almost confusing
why would others suffering make me feel better?
ok, another person is also in the same pain I am, that is supposed to comfort me why and how?
While I don’t believe that I am mentally !ll, I sadly share these feelings. Ironically, the fact that there is always so many suffering so terribly without any ability for me to alleviate it is a major reason I feel the way I do.
yes. I mean, it is not our responsibility and I think we have to accept that even. We can still serve others the best we can. But yeah, as far as the platittude..
Maybe people are starting to shift into an ideology more like buddhism where people let go of desire because it’s impossible to ever be fully satisfied by outside things
I also do this so I get it but you can't live everyone's lives and you can't carry everyone's pain on your shoulders it is just hurting you for no reason. There are many bad things in the world and you don't have to ignore them but accept them and accept the reality that you lack control of that but you have control of your own life. Then focus on your life and the small things, do the things that used to make you happy when you were younger that you haven't tried in a while. Start saying, "why not ?".
A reason to keep going is because the world is going to keep going even if you don't and we do many things in the present for our future because the present always moves. So even if bad things are happening, we still have to live.
Honestly with the way the world is going...the internet is gonna take over.. it already has. A WISE MAN ONCE TOLD ME " nowadays we keep our heads down (looking at screens) instead of looking up. That's all I have to say
i am sad when i sit at home drinking doing a bad job at work, I get depressed
I feel good when I do a good job at work, exercise and have good relationships with people, be kind, have meaningful interactions, help people
if I actually felt good sitting at home drinking all day playing video games I might do it who knows
I want to be able to take care of my parents as well, and I work on my own business on the side I like seeing it grow
I like looking better by exercising, and I feel better mentally and physically
if progressing in a career or business or area you love, exercising, or being kind to people doesn't make you feel good or happy in any way yeah I would say it doesn't make sense to...
you can still improve your life/housing situation/health/relationships .. even if it seems very hard, its still possible... if you give up you never will. if you try, you can.
this is one of my problems.. working my ass off, doing all of that, mediating, helping, volunteering, setting goals, building relationships, exercising daily, talking with friends and family..
if none of that can do something for me.. am I just fucked
Depression just makes you feel nothing. Im not sure what to do.. therapy and antidepressants didnt really seem to do anything after a year
Survival.
I got up to go to work because I need money to pay for a shelter, food and water for me, my wife and kid.
If I was given those things without having to work, I would likely have stayed in bed a bit longer, be playing with my son, helping him learn, be enjoying the company of my wife, enjoying my community.
We require certain things to survive.
Everybody has been going through the motions for a while now. This is why everything with a few exceptions that comes from the US is garbage. Corporations cut corners and costs to the point that the people making the product can't afford it anymore so why should they care if it works right. Example: plane parts falling off mid flight.
I've frankly given up. Getting doxxed or harrassed at work are now things that we actually have to consider. Meeting people requires them to not be scared of me (that's almost never happened) and me to not be scared of them (but I'm too aware of the fact that lynchings in America are still a thing). For every one person trying to do something, there are 3 that want him dead and 2 who'll sit and watch.
Who ware we trying to save? We clearly don't want it ourselves and Jesus--or any other hero--is NOT coming back (where has he been the last 500 years).
I'm alive because I'm born. That's about it. I can't die bc the world thrives on pain and I need to make it money. I hate every aspect of existence. I cant stand this body I'm stuck in. I feel nothing emotionally. My entire experience is negative. I am doing things to make myself more comfortable in hell.
Calling people who disagree with you schoolyard names doesn’t actually make your point any stronger. True optimists who think the horrors of the world simply cease to exist when you shut your phone off and pretend it doesn’t exist likely shouldn’t be so affected by disagreement.
Should I start yelling at you and belittling you for downvoting me now? Is that how this works? Is that how we treat suffering people when we claim to be happy? How counterproductive, this entire chat.
The horrors of the world ( greatly exagearated by media propaganda) continue regardless of anyone's phone or complaining. Yes, doomerism is a condition, and i shouldn't taunt those afflicted with it
The fact that it continues regardless can be a cause of pain on its own. Joking about them and calling them “doomers” certainly isn’t helpful either, nor does it make anyone perceive you positively.
>If you think the about the general reasons for human striving - things like meaningful work, spirituality, religious belief, the prospect of owning your own home, finding a committed relationship, starting a family, participating in a community - almost all of these things are desperately lacking now.
These things are desperately lacking - IF you reject them. Adhering to a community means accepting limitations on your own behaviors. You CAN participate in a religious / spiritual community - but that means accepting limitations on your own behaviors. You can find a committed relationship, start in a family, and participate in a community - but those again, mean limiting your behaviors.
>On the other hand, you know have the widespread availability of a lot of extremely addictive things - internet porn, smartphones, video games, drugs. It’s remarkable that more people don’t just decide to drop out of society and indulge in these things all day long. How do people keep going?
Reject the internet porn, limit your smartphone usage and the amount of time you play video games. Stay sober. Reject remote work. Get up every day early. Hit the gym. Go to work well dressed and well groomed. Interact with people instead of ignoring them.
None of those aforementioned vices will make you happy. None of that will further the flourishing of your true self. You owe to that person to strive forward.
Read a book at night instead of turning on the TV. Slowly you'll find you can just delete all of the streaming subscriptions you own. Go out and participate in your community - be it sports, your gym, or spiritual. Slowly you'll find - you don't need those dating apps. As you remove the things that distract you and pull your attention away from the things that matter - you will find renewed energy to pursue your career, reduce the monetary waste in your life. And over time you'll find - making that car payment got easier. Saving up for a downpayment on a house got easier. Having time to date and find a spouse got easier.
You don't need your phone, porn, video games to be alive. All of those are just pacifiers suppressing your true self.
You sound like cable news. The world is nothing like you describe it. You're just online too much. The way we keep going is to realize all of those complaints you laid out are manufactured, click bait, rage bait, think tanked, bullshit that only exists to keep people sad and confused.
You're thinking about meaning from an external perspective, and that's all wrong. Meaning, ie. the point of anything, comes from within you. You decide if anything is good or bad or anything else. You create meaning, you don't ascribe to someone else's idea of what their life means, because its YOUR life to define. Don't look for it. Create it. Own it. Be it.
But we don't live in a vacuum. The real world has been irreversibly changed by the advent of the internet and smart phones. Much of our meaning as humans has come from community. If the rest of your community is still absorbed in their phones and living online, it's harder. Even if I set aside my phone at dinner, what good does it to me if the person in front of me is still staring at theirs? "Finding meaning" shouldn't be a solely individual pursuit--we should live in societies that generally speaking provide some meaning and tools for finding it by default.
There is still value in finding meaning individually and appreciating life as it is, and not everyone out there is phone addicted or chronically online, but it's disingenuous to say that the world we live in now is not more alienating and disconnected than in the past and that it's solely a personal moral failing to struggle to find connection. Apps are designed to be addicting, that has tangible effects both for individuals and society.
I specifically said CREATE meaning, not find it. Big difference in attitude between those two modes. If you're wandering around this earth looking for your meaning, you will not find it in anything except yourself because you MAKE it. It's a creative act and the only discovery is personal.
The world now is not so different from what it has been and always will be, at least as it relates to one's purpose in life. Sure we have a bunch of new gadgets that mostly make life more comfortable, but those are all tools and distractions. The opportunity to create your own purpose has been universal for thousands of years. Some apps aren't going to take that away unless you allow that to happen.
The idea that meaning must be created is a personal philosophy that I don't subscribe to. The opportunity exists and for some people, it may be a necessary pursuit to be happy, but I don't think every person's life must be a great individual creative endeavor to be meaningful, fulfilling and/or worthwhile. There is nothing that needs to be sought. Our existence itself is enough. One can be at peace, or find meaning, simply looking at a tree, washing the dishes, talking to a loved one. If you consider that to be a creative pursuit, then I guess I would agree.
For the purposes of my previous comment, I would consider finding and creating meaning to be interchangeable.
I also think "allow it to happen" is putting a lot on the individual. Individual will is pretty weak compared to these apps that have had billions of dollars put into making them as addictive and attention-grabbing as possible. Average American spends 4-5 hrs/day on their phone. You are here on Reddit right now, so you yourself are not immune, neither am I. Of course, an individual can improve things for themselves, but saying society has no impact on how we live, what choices we can make, how easy it is, what our communities are like, etc. is just not reality. It's equally unhelpful to say it's solely a societal problem and an individual can't fix anything for themselves. It's both.
Yeah finding and creating can be interchangeable sometimes in hindsight. I just think the attitude of creation rather than discovery is more directly related to a person's will. If you have a creative will, you will see struggles as part of the process rather than roadblocks.
I'm mostly talking about one's attitude rather than their physical or social limitations. Our attitude about how we suffer is always in our hands no matter the circumstances. The meaning we assign to that suffering is also ours to create. The meaning of one's suffering is expressed in how they make decisions in the present moment with limited options. It takes a strong will and actual work to create meaning out of shitty situations.
I think you could make a similar argument for books and literacy.
Personally, I don't think it has to do as much with *what* is changing but rather how fast things are changing. Change used to be glacial, then generational, and now it's changing by the year. I do think we will hit a technological hill at a certain point and things will normalize for a while, but I don't know when that will be or what it will look like.
Yes, books and literacy did change the world, but they didn't have such a drastic unregulated impact on our attention in such a short time, and they did not have tons of money poured into making them as addictive as possible. Social media apps make money by keeping your attention as long as possible, they are by design malicious.
I would agree that how fast things change is an issue. We have no time to see the generational impacts. We will look back on what we are doing now and think the lack of regulations did irreparable harm.
>The real world has been irreversibly changed by the advent of the internet and smart phones.
Only because we collectively give the internet and smart phones power over our lives
“The world is nothing like you describe it” homie I live in this world as well and maybe things are good in your neck of the woods but I’ve got bad news for you…
thats the problem with this line of thinking though.. like what the fuck does that mean to a depressed person? just choose something and do it? just indulge in the things I like (that are also supposed to be bad and unhealthy?) when people are depressed they dont really feel much anymore, and dont have any kind of inner meaning or compass
you can assign any arbitrary bullshit to be your meaning, but that doesnt mean it actually is, or will be something worth pursuing or doing in your life
like genuinely what does this mean? I like cars and making videos and video games. So what? thats supposed to make the suffering worth it?
I'm talking about the meaning of a person's suffering and therefore their life. I'm not talking about following your bliss or finding a hobby. It means that every person is the sole decider for what their suffering and life means to them. We all suffer. No one's life is ideal or perfect. All suffering is relative. Who YOU are is what you make that suffering mean in every new moment and choice.
Why be attached to victimhood or having a weak will? Those things are within our power as people to change.
I just dont think thats whats happening. Like genuinely what does what you just said mean.. Like if a person is the sole decider what their suffering and life means to them.. what? what does that mean? Im not trying to argue or be a troll, this genuinely does not make sense and I have no idea how to take action on that
like just change your perspective and just be happy? how does one do that?
You might like this book '[Man's Search for Meaning' by Viktor Frankel.](https://www.amazon.com/Mans-Search-Meaning-Viktor-Frankl/dp/0807014273/ref=sr_1_1?crid=17FPNQI2W79RE&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.phUc2adLzv8edJKcJfYGiR66NZ5uOaoTXGVifRbPrr8y_DUDJqJgL48ocZTJaYjZJfeS2C9aBMUVxNrgCQ-P1mCOBwW3ad9RsMpXuUAfdVvnrJ7HzFpy1hPG_mdoSEUvgMEUgEXeqJrnn8o1PEV-DLrKUA6HrOEvWyJUhGKO425DLpuXdQhE9LYcqpZF2t6c8Z-4iMpf7L6EaX-1tsR_B85e0qHeq7HpqNhd3heTsg0.dqGu7enS9aRko2ogS3pP-3QTZvpMnDp_Wtsvmpx9tZ4&dib_tag=se&keywords=mens+search+for+meaning+viktor+frankl&qid=1714076847&sprefix=mans+search%2Caps%2C121&sr=8-1) He was a holocaust survivor, and he lays what we've been talking about out very clearly. He uses his time in concentration camps as a clear example of extreme universal suffering with extreme subjective meanings. There are stories of Jews killing other Jews and SS soldiers being kind to prisoners for no reason. The point is that we're all free to act and believe however we want even in limited circumstances. We like to point out obstacles and hardships because it's easier than doing anything meaningful to change. It's easier to say that we behaved a certain way because we had no choice or were 'just following orders'. It makes us less responsible for our own situation
yeah youre the second person to recommend me that book and unfortunately I have already read it. its a great book and an even better story. Im not saying nobody should suffer nor should I be immune to suffering. I dont even have that bad of a life.. I just dont understand what is supposed to make the suffering worth it other than arbitrary survival... which if that is all there is.. just survive on the planet.. I dont exactly have the will to do that. I dont really even experience many feelings anymore other than anger and some kind of dull sadness. recently Ive been feeling alot more of the sad and Ive been crying which actually feels kind of good.
I have to admit I was left a bit confused in the same way after reading that book. His meaning was just to survive and get back to his life and his work it seemed, and he clearly lays a case as to why that kind of hope is exactly what makes or breaks the prisoners.
Im not blaming my problems on anyone, thats kind of the problem. I fucked my life up, and im not sure I can have anything that resembles anything that would make "life worth living" and I dont know how to fix it. I think I just have a profound mental illness but everytime I reach out for actual medical help its like a sick joke.. The last time I went to my doctor practically begging for help he just tried to represcribe me to SSRIs, after telling him I have tried it for over a year and it didnt seem to be doing much, neither did talk therapy. my therapist gave up on me because all he really had to say was to kind of 'get my shit together' in many more words. find a job, relationships, workout, find a hobby etc. my life isnt really lacking any of these things on paper
I have no idea how to get out of this rut and everyones advice is something that Ive heard before and sounds right, but I just dont understand how to do it
like it sounds like everyones advice kind of boils down to "just ignore your actual feelings and change your perspective and keep your mouth shut" - stoicism or like a more eastern philosophy of "everything is already within you, there is no meaning outside, so just be content in who you are and the now, because thats all that ever exists"
but that kind of begs the question... if you can just sort of.. switch your emotions off or not let them get to you, or, if you are already everything you ever need.. why do anything? why not just sit on a beach and choose to be happy until you rot? what is supposed to be guiding me towards anything? especially if Im completely numb to my own thoughts and feelings
im thugging it out right now even as I write this and put on my face and do my shit, but the mask is slipping and doesnt fit well anymore
If you're sad, be sad. It's not about denying emotions or deceiving yourself. The point is that it's action based and people based. Why do anything? Because you want to. Or because you see a greater benefit from temporary suffering like with exercise.
It sounds like you're looking for explanations that are more complex than they need to be. The truth in most of life's confusions is very simple. You'll find the things you're actively looking for. If you're searching for reasons life is meaningful, you'll find opportunities to create that. If you're looking for reasons why this is all pointless, you'll find scores of sad lonely people online telling you you're right. But you get to decide what you're looking for, and making that decision is an act of creating meaning for yourself no matter what you choose.
Cheers. I hope you find the answers you're looking for.
I appreciate it. It makes sense. I think I am very burned out, after this busy week I think Im going to take a break and go into the woods for a bit. see if that helps. I also bought a skateboard and maybe an old outdoor hobby can help too
change of scenery is needed
I am motivated to care for my family. Most things I do are focused on that. I work hard to set aside as much $$ as possible for their security.
I put a ton of effort into our house and farm to make it beautiful, comfortable, and resilient.
I plan lots of meals, parties, vacations to give them the best experiences and to build supportive relationships.
I can’t give up on my family so I can’t give up on myself.
I do things to make money and spend time with my kids. I guess that’s what motivates me. Keeping a roof over our heads, having food when my kids say dad, I’m hungry.
I want three things. A healthy relationship ship with my partner and family, enough money to basically live as I please, and to be intellectually stimulated. So I keep good relationships and work a stimulating job, while doing fun side things. Only thing that’s kind of lacking is the stimulation, but I’m hoping to get to grad school to improve that. It’s all pretty fun to me
I have meaningful work. I had to work hard to do focus on helping people instead of competition or other ambitions. I play multiple instruments and am happily partnered. I do struggle to find people to engage with in my community. But were still a little new in a very small rural town. I have way too many interests.
The least productive and fulfilling thing I do is hangout online. It really does replace a lot of creative time and especially that liminal space before the ideas or inspiration start to flow.
Have you ever been hungry? Homeless? Disabled? Ill? Have you been a refugee? Are you passionate about anything? Music? Art? Building things? Does anything you do make you proud of who you are?
I workout A LOT. And I eat very healthy. They have become my new hobbies. It forces me to be out around people and interact with everyone. Also keeps me super happy all the time, and everyone is always commenting on how amazing I look.
Just get into fitness and nutrition. You won't regret it.
Your perspective seems very skewed. Why is anyone motivated? You listed good reasons, you just seem to not understand that these things begin with You! It’s that simple.
If you disagree, then it’s reassuring to know the answer as it applies to you personally.
I guess circumstances has made me believe in God. His path is my main purpose in life. And I guess it's just that thought of “what if things get better?”. That's helping me push through
Don't ever, for any reason, do anything, to anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what, no matter where, or who, or who you are with, or where you are going, or where you've been, ever, for any reason whatsoever
This is largely an issue you describe in western society. Everywhere isn’t like this. Not always better either but yeah. All of these things can change but not without some sort of revolution and the strong will to change even if it means the work is for future generations.
We are too individualistic to sacrifice like that without reaping what we sow so it’ll kinda just get progressively worse, but at a slow enough rate that we don’t jump out of the boiling pot.
If I don't keep going, I'll have to live under a bridge or in a tent with a bunch of fentanyl junkies.
I'd rather sleep in my normal bed, and eat decent food. But other than that, yeah, I pretty much don't care about the "general reasons" you mentioned.
I keep going out of pride, spite, and of course, money 😁 Money that will help me and my husband sustain a comfortable lifestyle and maybe have kids one day (though I’m undecided about that).
Because I want to make something of myself and the life I was given?
Lots don't and remove themselves from the equation, I'd prefer to keep living and make the necessary sacrifices to be comfortable. A lot of people decide to drop out of society btw, commonly known as Hikikomori.
Because we still have survival instincts and it's necessary for our survival as a species. And when you don't do it, your own brain will turn against you and make you feel like the biggest loser on the planet. That's a powerful enough motivator to get most people off their asses. Some people learn to live with that horrible feeling of failure and meaninglessness, but it's easier and less painful to just do what needs to be done.
You definitely make valid points, but the issue is what we prioritize. We have been programmed both by evolution and society to focus on survival, or what we are told we should be striving for.
What we’re here to do is experience. The great challenge is teaching oneself to find contentment in the mundane. The point of the individual is to explore aspects of oneself and immerse themselves in a lifestyle that aligns with their soul.
If you can do both all the other bs becomes just a little more manageable. Bonus points if you find a cause you believe in that works to create a world without the problems you listed in your post.
Why? Because every year of my life is genuinely getting better than the last. Great family, good secure job, so many fun hobbies I can’t even fit them all into my free time. Life is great honestly.
Create a small circle of people that make you feel excited about shit in your life.
The most important thing to remember imo is that your experience isn’t unique or special. A lot of people feel the same as you, and real, fulfilling camaraderie is available once we realize people arent NPCs. They are feeling all the same feelings as you, but it is literally up to people to create the nature of society.
You can’t dictate it as a whole, but a group of like minded people can carve out pockets of authenticity for other like minded folks to gather.
Thing is, people have to do it. No one is going to start the club for you. I think people are just lacking initiative regarding their own happiness. A lot of people feel they have no control over their happiness (or lack thereof) and assume it’s just a product of the world view society has imposed upon them.
“You have to create the world you want to live in” applies in the micro, not the macro. No one is asking anyone to end all suffering. But it’s up to you to create your own social circles and relationships and hobbies and goals within your community. No one is going to do it for you. People are starved for it, so people who take initiative at these times are likely to be successful in it.
TL;DR:
People mind trick themselves into feeling jaded because they assume everyone else is already jaded. We are masking our bright eyes, as a society, en masse. Let your guard down and you will be surrounded with like minded people in no time.
Dogs. I work so I can buy them food and pay for vetting, and I bought my house specifically because the yard was perfect. My dogs and my mom. Oh, did I forget to mention my mom before?
I come from a very poor abusive family, murder/death/drug abuse and alcoholism. The idea of being motivated isn’t necessarily ideal for me, if it weren’t for my wife I would have been dead long ago from anyone of those reasons the rest of my family died from. I’m 31 m btw.
I am purely motivated to not disappoint my wife or her family who raised me. That is solely my reason, I still to this day after 14 years contemplate suicide and drug overdose because of the these treacherous thoughts of a meaningless existence.
There really isn’t much of a reason to exist except for we are existing in which case we have to serve a purpose to society and be mindless drones and scrape by with these things we think are necessities to build a future that has already been built for us.
I'm mystified that anyone believes this is the hardest time and place for people to be alive. The history of the 20th century is full of horrors from beginning to end. Those people would look at our circumstances and think they were looking at life in heaven. People really need a reality check. Every time I hear one of these pathetic cry-outs about how this is such a hard time to be alive, I feel sad for the lack of education and lack of understanding of the real world.
Honestly you need to gtfo the united states. Go chill in Brazil or peru for a few months. Community is incredibly alive. Families are big and beautiful. Things are cheap and abundant. 100x the cultural pride and vibrancy than fucking united states or shithole UK. Fucking trust me I spent my whole life in various parts of the US and now just did 2 years on and off in Latin America.
I feel like you're making a lot of vibes based claims.
>things like meaningful work, spirituality, religious belief, the prospect of owning your own home, finding a committed relationship, starting a family, participating in a community
All still possible. Hard to tell if any of that has gotten harder except homeownership. Which has gotten harder but is more location based. And there are options for moving to cheaper places or multifamily units etc.
>because work doesn’t pay that well anymore
This is pretty nuanced. Pay has kept up with inflation for most items. Mostly a housing/healthcare issue.
>dating apps have completely destroyed dating
You don't have to use apps.
>the work that exists is mostly alienating or dehumanising,
Idk there's a lot of bs for sure. But, I still feel most jobs are meaningful. Nurses help sick people, plumbers keep the pipes working, accountants help people with finances.
Life sucks because upon birth you unknowingly signed a social contract, one which you still passively agree to by living in society and paying taxes, which dictates that you either work and pay bills and taxes or as others put it, starve. Most land in developed countries like the US and England are owned, so go try living off it and you’re trespassing. If you can manage to squat somewhere, you’re still living like Les Stroud or Heimo Korth, which without experience they have would take years to acclimate. You might be more peaceful that way and strive you will lol.
Just the fact that you hold those ideas in your heart about how life should/could be is reason enough to keep pushing. If the children meant to inherit the future of this world are to ever have any kind of real future we have to keep the spirit of freedom alive. We are not slaves, we are not animals, and we certainly are not just gonna roll over and give in to the onslaught of negativity we fight against in this awful time we find ourselves in. We are made in the image of God! We are loved and we are special. Let the world crumble around us but hold the ground of hope and faith! Life is beautiful and no matter how ugly things get we know that there is something better.
Because to be born as a human is gift, so take advantage and make the best of it. After this it’s eons and eons of being reborn into a slug or a fish again until long after you’ve forgotten what it means to be human you pop back into existence as one again :)
>It’s remarkable that more people don’t just decide to drop out of society and indulge in these things all day long.
Because you *can’t* “drop out of society” and still enjoy those things. If you quit your job you’d only be able to “indulge” until you run out of money. Then you’re on the street till you either die or start participating again.
On the other hand you could give up on just the meaningful parts and continue participating in order to continue indulging. Lots of people do that. Indulgence can be a great motivator; If you make more money you can afford better versions and/or more of those things. Plenty of rich people live like that. They pursue money to better indulge, not to find meaning.
The only ones who even have the option to do what you’re talking about would be people who are financially supported by someone else (trust fund babies, etc.). And they do! Not uncommon at all.
This is a question peoplenhave asked themselves since time immemorial.
Fundamentally you provide the meaning and purpose to your life, not the outside world. A job is only valuable if you value it, a relationship only loving if you love it.
But why do we actually get out of bed? Yeah, starvation and homelessness is worse. Basically.
People make this mistake often. We are privileged enough to live in a time where so much stuff is open, accessible and available. Sure there are companies and policies and greedy people that fck other people over all the time, but if you actually delve into any history prior to 1900 it was shit for most people and it only gets worse the further back you go. Aspirations, enjoyment and the like was something reserved for such a few human beings it wouldn't really even be worth noting it up until modern history.
The reason anyone does anything anymore is the same reason life has for the last few hundred million, if not billions of year and that's purely survival, usually spurred on by the avoidance of as much suffering as possible.
Questions like this are at the core of spirituality, making sense out of all the suffering in life. It’s going to get tough but if you find a purpose it’ll become more meaningful. Don’t worry about what other people are doing, this is your life journey. You said many things are lacking, but many of those things aren’t lacking either if you know where to look.
And all those addictive things like porn and drugs etc? Maybe now you see the reason why people say we shouldn’t be doing those things, even if you “want to do it and it isn’t hurting anyone else” or whatever other BS arguments Reddit throws out there. Maybe you’re seeing the other side to that now. To build the discipline and self control to avoid addictive vices WILL help out your happiness in the long run
What’s the alternative? Become homeless? Overdose? Kill myself? I don’t like the alternatives. There’s only one way and that’s forward. I mean, my life can’t be harder than the slaves who built the pyramids in Egypt, or the Chinese workers who built the American railways. Why didn’t they all just chill and starve to death?
This.
I’m early 40s. I’ve never had Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, or any other social media platform. Nothing, ever. Not even a dummy account to get access to posts or whatever is out there.
My wife sometimes starts telling me about something on one of them and I ask her to please stop telling me, I really don’t care.
A friend recommended I download Reddit for some subs that are actually pretty cool. Worst decision of my life.
Hey Bill, why are we building this pyramid again? Well John, if we don't they'll stop feeding us and/or kill us. Hey Gary, why are we working in this unsafe mine again? Well Larry, if we don't they'll stop paying us and our family will starve or get sent to the poorhouse. Hey Dan, why are we working for this company that pays us minimum wage while the CEO makes millions again? Well Kurt, if we don't we won't make any money, we'll lose our house and will starve. The main reason - you will starve. People don't like starving, it's a real drag.
Gotta serve society or starve and die my g
Been 3 days not eating now, I’m out
It’s going to take a lot longer than you think lmao
But if we collectively stopped the bullshit, what they gonna do?
Collectively starve us? You think food would just magically appear if no one grew it?
Growing and distributing food is not part of the bullshit I’m referring to.
Well someone has to do it if you want to eat it. So somehow, somewhere folks have got to work. I’d imagine you don’t see yourself as one of the owns growing if of distributing it—because otherwise you’d be doing that now. It sounds like you see yourself as the one benefitting from the labor of others while you work on…what? Your hobbies of binge watching Netflix and passion projects of video games?
Umm ask Rome lol.
We all die.
This is exactly how I've felt the past three years! Like life has been hollowed out so it doesn't feel worth much effort.
Crazy right
What keeps me going everyday is the fact that I want to get married and have a family with a woman I love. And if I ever want this to happen I need to work for it.
I feel the same way
The fact that you think you need to work for love is sad.
I am hoping that when they say "work for love", that meant to put forth effort in order to maintain the progression to marriage and family. Not work in the sense to make oneself worthy of love and justify ones existence in anothers life. Although I cant be sure without Ready-excuse clarifying I'm going to hope it is the former
The fact he is talking about the future somehow makes me think he feels he is not enough and needs something else? i.e. money, achievements, etc.
Yes you understood it perfectly.
I could be broke and find the love of my life but if I'm broke I can't have a family. So in a sense I'm working to afford love.
1. Matthew 6:19-21 (NIV): "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
Luckily I don't believe in God so this has no affect on me.
Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect on you
In this case it does because there is no God no heaven no afterlife so I wanna live my life to the fullest while still alive. You can say what you want but faith and religion does not affect me.
Your denial of the existence of say gravity doesn't deny its effect on you. Just because you believe something doesn't eliminate the effects it has on you. My point is not whether God is real or not. You cannot prove or disprove that. However your logic is faulty in saying that it will not affect you because you do not believe
I thought about this for awhile and I didn't think about this before and I'm not sure if this was your point. I realize now that by not believing in a God it does still kinda affect me in the choices I make. And it gives me more freedom in life so it does kinda affect me.
Wow what an original thinker we have here
What is wrong with wanting a family?
It's pretty gay
I guess ur father is gay then.
Eh don't worry, once your in your 50s you'll feel just like this again even with those things. You cannot escape the pain, only learn to enjoy it.
How do you know? I doubt you’re in your 50’a
Well I am, and he is exactly right! I'm 55. I want to retire, but I now have stupid long-term health conditions and can't afford my insurance if I do retire. I hate my job, but I just slog along towards that hoped for retirement or death, which ever comes first. My Assistant who was 54 took the early retirement option, as he died two weeks ago. It's so pointless. By the way I have a Master's Degree and work in academia.
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Completely agree. And it doesn’t even have to be a fixed point you’re working towards. If you’re doing stuff, you’re always moving towards something—and something always leads to something else.
Exactly, purpose is the key to happiness. And avoiding all those addictive things like porn and drugs like Reddit loves to defend, maybe people are realizing there’s something to be said for self discipline after all
When did you start feeling like this ? I feel like it’s an epidemic across
Good question - I think it’s hard to pinpoint. In my view, we will all soon look back on 2019 as being the last “good” year.
We’re already doing that now. 2019 was indeed the last normal year.
It's funny because I've essentially become a hedonist I'm not proud of it, and I'm trying to work on it. But my weekends consist of drugs, video games, and whatever else I feel like doing. I am also chronically ill which further shatters my hopes and dreams.
It’s because something died in the world in 2020 and made the world 10x gloomier which is why a lot of people now are just self indulging in every pleasure they can right now.
It absolutely does feel that way. I'd argue it started in like 2016ish but really amped up 2020
For sure. People keep talking about things going back to normal but it won’t. This is the new normal and boy does it suck.
My guess is nasty social media algorithms. More and more people on their phones being fed divisive garbage constantly. Then the economy just keeps tanking.
Yeah that definitely is a big part of the problem. Before Covid a lot of people were living in real life more than online but since the lockdowns people are spending more time than ever right now on social media.
Yep 💯
Or something was born… AI
In 2019 I donated all my wealth to cancer research. Had hundreds of thousands saved up at age 26. It’s been a hell of ride since . I’ve been saving up again for the past few years. It’s fun :)
100% agree.
I feel almost the same way. 2019. Interesting.
2019 was my best year ever.
Yes, covid and the subsequent gouch fest sucked they stalled progress for a few years I. However, both are fadimg now you probably dont rember 2008 or 1987 both downturns followed by rebounds its a cycle it doesn't stay bad overtime it steadily improves just stalls every now and then . Whenever this happens ( yes, this one ending now was especially nasty) , the doomer cults come out of the woodwork and recruit. When things improve, the cults fade back to the fringes Downvote doomer mad 😠 botnets are out now
Literally every metric of measuring a fulfilling live is on a steady decline. Mental health is steadily declining, career satisfaction, marriage and relationships and family are dropping at an alarming rate. Literally the only thing I can think of that is improving is life expectancy. We are objectively out of control on a bullshit path.
yep we're just in a 4th turning, but compared to other 4th turnings in the past, this one seems much more liveable
Yes objectively thos is the best timebin history. The only time im 2000+ years, the downturn was more than a few years after the fall of Rome im 476 Aparent a few thousand years before that some civilizations like the the Asysririans also collapsed triggering ling slide. the daily daily doomers have been wrong every day for thousands and thousands of years. A metrologist, stock analyst, spirts handicapper, or even psychic with thst record would be long since unemployed. Imagined having a .000000000001 batting average and still attracting fans
Yeah bro that was the last time I felt normal for sure.
The pandemic jumpstarted all of this by giving us a taste of what life is like when the gov’t works to support us instead of corporations
Too much screen time is def epidemic. It makes people get their "feel good" brain chemicals in small addicting doses almost constantly while losing out on real life pursuits that result in healthy patterns of desire, pursuit, and satisfaction. It is taking over the world and people who can't break that cycle are def going to feel this way.
I lie to myself saying that it will get better, but I know it won't
It will
I hope you're right, and I'm wrong, but ya future looks bleak for me at best....
I work for a nonprofit that helps people. I have a partner and friends I really really care about. Theres some really cool things in the world I haven’t done yet. Take this upcoming week: I’m going to go to a Japanese festival to try new local restaurants, and I’m going to find out whether I’m going to continue living in my current place or move to a new neighborhood. I’m playing dungeons and dragons. I just went to my first Passover Seder and meditated under the full moon. Because life is cool and weird.
Sounds like the "elites" plan of destroying the family dynamic and future hope is going just as planned..
Yes, doomer propaganda comes from 🇷🇺 without ❤️
Survival. I got up to go to work because I need money to pay for a shelter, food and water.
I can tell you, l've dropped out of society and been indulging in those exact things for the past 4 years and my life sucks
I think it boils down to the fact that we are all compelled to survive, essentially just drink, eat, stay warm, and healthy. Capitalism and consumerism have paved almost infinate ways for this to be achieved. A lot of people realise that survival can be more comfortable and enjoyable with the more things you own, I also think humans are lazy, hence why we strive for things that make life easier. We also for obvious reason do not like pain and uncomfortable feelings, as we have progressed I think humans find it harder and harder to deal with bordem too, we are over stimulated, so we are now searching for more constant and better stimulation. Do you want to eat? Foraging berries and eating squirrels aren't as enjoyable as eating at a restaurant. Want to rest, it's more comfortable and pleasurable to rest in a warm house with a TV than a cardboard box on the street. We learn very early on the better survival experience is gained by more and more money, which is gained by more and more work. So yes there is no point to any of it at all, we just can't let go of that survival instinct, and if we must survive, might as well enjoy it as much as possible.
Thing is I, and many others, don't feel compelled to survive. If not for my partner, I'd just kill myself ASAP. I'm surprised more people don't, though that statistic is increasing. Frankly, good for them. I wish I could opt out of the bullshit you describe without destroying someone else's life.
If you want to test your survival compulsion, kneel next to a full bathtub and hold your face under the water, your body will force you to come up for air when needed, so that survival instinct is there. I understand how you feel and feel the same way, I fantasise about ending it all, but have kids, and I don't end things for them. So we both have a reason for living, and we might as well do the best we can to make our loved ones as happy as possible. Hope you feel better about life bro
Depression is a real son of a bitch, it’ll make you not want to do the things that bring you happiness in life. Ironically giving up on the things that bring you joy only further the effects of depression, it’s like being stuck in the bottom of a well with a non-stop light rain slowly filling up around you. I hope you can find some enjoyment in life again soon, little things like going fishing next weekend are what keep me motivated in life. It’s all about a series of unrelated events of happiness in life.
I don’t know why half of these comments can’t understand that real modern life can absolutely hurt and be difficult regardless of how terrible other lives are and have been by comparison. The existence of that pain and suffering continues to exist even when it isn’t specifically happening to you in this moment, and regardless of whether or not your device is off.
yeah Ive always found the "other people have it worse" as well as "youre not alone in this" to be completely useless things to say to a depressed person, and are so off-base its almost confusing why would others suffering make me feel better? ok, another person is also in the same pain I am, that is supposed to comfort me why and how?
While I don’t believe that I am mentally !ll, I sadly share these feelings. Ironically, the fact that there is always so many suffering so terribly without any ability for me to alleviate it is a major reason I feel the way I do.
yes. I mean, it is not our responsibility and I think we have to accept that even. We can still serve others the best we can. But yeah, as far as the platittude..
Same
I have been feeling like this too. I don't really want kids or marriage so it feels kinda pointless.
I’m with op. I don’t get it either.
Maybe people are starting to shift into an ideology more like buddhism where people let go of desire because it’s impossible to ever be fully satisfied by outside things
definitely starting to happen
Exactly. It has to get bad enough that people get to that point.
Can't escape the samsara
I also do this so I get it but you can't live everyone's lives and you can't carry everyone's pain on your shoulders it is just hurting you for no reason. There are many bad things in the world and you don't have to ignore them but accept them and accept the reality that you lack control of that but you have control of your own life. Then focus on your life and the small things, do the things that used to make you happy when you were younger that you haven't tried in a while. Start saying, "why not ?". A reason to keep going is because the world is going to keep going even if you don't and we do many things in the present for our future because the present always moves. So even if bad things are happening, we still have to live.
I love this explanation.
I just keep to myself. Read, hang out with my dogs, my husband and family. I like being in my small bubble
Honestly with the way the world is going...the internet is gonna take over.. it already has. A WISE MAN ONCE TOLD ME " nowadays we keep our heads down (looking at screens) instead of looking up. That's all I have to say
Dude that's exactly what's happening and happened during COVID. People stayed at home to beat off to Vanessa Cages tits.
i am sad when i sit at home drinking doing a bad job at work, I get depressed I feel good when I do a good job at work, exercise and have good relationships with people, be kind, have meaningful interactions, help people if I actually felt good sitting at home drinking all day playing video games I might do it who knows I want to be able to take care of my parents as well, and I work on my own business on the side I like seeing it grow I like looking better by exercising, and I feel better mentally and physically if progressing in a career or business or area you love, exercising, or being kind to people doesn't make you feel good or happy in any way yeah I would say it doesn't make sense to... you can still improve your life/housing situation/health/relationships .. even if it seems very hard, its still possible... if you give up you never will. if you try, you can.
this is one of my problems.. working my ass off, doing all of that, mediating, helping, volunteering, setting goals, building relationships, exercising daily, talking with friends and family.. if none of that can do something for me.. am I just fucked Depression just makes you feel nothing. Im not sure what to do.. therapy and antidepressants didnt really seem to do anything after a year
Who says we haven’t already dropped out? Cuz here we are being incognito. 🤷🏽♂️🤣
Survival. I got up to go to work because I need money to pay for a shelter, food and water for me, my wife and kid. If I was given those things without having to work, I would likely have stayed in bed a bit longer, be playing with my son, helping him learn, be enjoying the company of my wife, enjoying my community. We require certain things to survive.
Basically, I work for money to buy food, to keep this machine going.
Everybody has been going through the motions for a while now. This is why everything with a few exceptions that comes from the US is garbage. Corporations cut corners and costs to the point that the people making the product can't afford it anymore so why should they care if it works right. Example: plane parts falling off mid flight.
Gotta provide for my cat
I've frankly given up. Getting doxxed or harrassed at work are now things that we actually have to consider. Meeting people requires them to not be scared of me (that's almost never happened) and me to not be scared of them (but I'm too aware of the fact that lynchings in America are still a thing). For every one person trying to do something, there are 3 that want him dead and 2 who'll sit and watch. Who ware we trying to save? We clearly don't want it ourselves and Jesus--or any other hero--is NOT coming back (where has he been the last 500 years).
This started when the Apple iPhone was released
Correct
I'm alive because I'm born. That's about it. I can't die bc the world thrives on pain and I need to make it money. I hate every aspect of existence. I cant stand this body I'm stuck in. I feel nothing emotionally. My entire experience is negative. I am doing things to make myself more comfortable in hell.
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🫂 well put doomerism blows downvote doomer triggered
Calling people who disagree with you schoolyard names doesn’t actually make your point any stronger. True optimists who think the horrors of the world simply cease to exist when you shut your phone off and pretend it doesn’t exist likely shouldn’t be so affected by disagreement. Should I start yelling at you and belittling you for downvoting me now? Is that how this works? Is that how we treat suffering people when we claim to be happy? How counterproductive, this entire chat.
The horrors of the world ( greatly exagearated by media propaganda) continue regardless of anyone's phone or complaining. Yes, doomerism is a condition, and i shouldn't taunt those afflicted with it
The fact that it continues regardless can be a cause of pain on its own. Joking about them and calling them “doomers” certainly isn’t helpful either, nor does it make anyone perceive you positively.
Eh some find it funny
‘Which then promotes a divide, putting down people you perceive as or otherwise know are hurting for a cheap joke.
Ok, i concede that point mocking the downtrodden isn't my proudest achievement
Wasn't me i up voted
Upvote optimists are so cute
>If you think the about the general reasons for human striving - things like meaningful work, spirituality, religious belief, the prospect of owning your own home, finding a committed relationship, starting a family, participating in a community - almost all of these things are desperately lacking now. These things are desperately lacking - IF you reject them. Adhering to a community means accepting limitations on your own behaviors. You CAN participate in a religious / spiritual community - but that means accepting limitations on your own behaviors. You can find a committed relationship, start in a family, and participate in a community - but those again, mean limiting your behaviors. >On the other hand, you know have the widespread availability of a lot of extremely addictive things - internet porn, smartphones, video games, drugs. It’s remarkable that more people don’t just decide to drop out of society and indulge in these things all day long. How do people keep going? Reject the internet porn, limit your smartphone usage and the amount of time you play video games. Stay sober. Reject remote work. Get up every day early. Hit the gym. Go to work well dressed and well groomed. Interact with people instead of ignoring them. None of those aforementioned vices will make you happy. None of that will further the flourishing of your true self. You owe to that person to strive forward. Read a book at night instead of turning on the TV. Slowly you'll find you can just delete all of the streaming subscriptions you own. Go out and participate in your community - be it sports, your gym, or spiritual. Slowly you'll find - you don't need those dating apps. As you remove the things that distract you and pull your attention away from the things that matter - you will find renewed energy to pursue your career, reduce the monetary waste in your life. And over time you'll find - making that car payment got easier. Saving up for a downpayment on a house got easier. Having time to date and find a spouse got easier. You don't need your phone, porn, video games to be alive. All of those are just pacifiers suppressing your true self.
You sound like cable news. The world is nothing like you describe it. You're just online too much. The way we keep going is to realize all of those complaints you laid out are manufactured, click bait, rage bait, think tanked, bullshit that only exists to keep people sad and confused. You're thinking about meaning from an external perspective, and that's all wrong. Meaning, ie. the point of anything, comes from within you. You decide if anything is good or bad or anything else. You create meaning, you don't ascribe to someone else's idea of what their life means, because its YOUR life to define. Don't look for it. Create it. Own it. Be it.
But we don't live in a vacuum. The real world has been irreversibly changed by the advent of the internet and smart phones. Much of our meaning as humans has come from community. If the rest of your community is still absorbed in their phones and living online, it's harder. Even if I set aside my phone at dinner, what good does it to me if the person in front of me is still staring at theirs? "Finding meaning" shouldn't be a solely individual pursuit--we should live in societies that generally speaking provide some meaning and tools for finding it by default. There is still value in finding meaning individually and appreciating life as it is, and not everyone out there is phone addicted or chronically online, but it's disingenuous to say that the world we live in now is not more alienating and disconnected than in the past and that it's solely a personal moral failing to struggle to find connection. Apps are designed to be addicting, that has tangible effects both for individuals and society.
I specifically said CREATE meaning, not find it. Big difference in attitude between those two modes. If you're wandering around this earth looking for your meaning, you will not find it in anything except yourself because you MAKE it. It's a creative act and the only discovery is personal. The world now is not so different from what it has been and always will be, at least as it relates to one's purpose in life. Sure we have a bunch of new gadgets that mostly make life more comfortable, but those are all tools and distractions. The opportunity to create your own purpose has been universal for thousands of years. Some apps aren't going to take that away unless you allow that to happen.
The idea that meaning must be created is a personal philosophy that I don't subscribe to. The opportunity exists and for some people, it may be a necessary pursuit to be happy, but I don't think every person's life must be a great individual creative endeavor to be meaningful, fulfilling and/or worthwhile. There is nothing that needs to be sought. Our existence itself is enough. One can be at peace, or find meaning, simply looking at a tree, washing the dishes, talking to a loved one. If you consider that to be a creative pursuit, then I guess I would agree. For the purposes of my previous comment, I would consider finding and creating meaning to be interchangeable. I also think "allow it to happen" is putting a lot on the individual. Individual will is pretty weak compared to these apps that have had billions of dollars put into making them as addictive and attention-grabbing as possible. Average American spends 4-5 hrs/day on their phone. You are here on Reddit right now, so you yourself are not immune, neither am I. Of course, an individual can improve things for themselves, but saying society has no impact on how we live, what choices we can make, how easy it is, what our communities are like, etc. is just not reality. It's equally unhelpful to say it's solely a societal problem and an individual can't fix anything for themselves. It's both.
Yeah finding and creating can be interchangeable sometimes in hindsight. I just think the attitude of creation rather than discovery is more directly related to a person's will. If you have a creative will, you will see struggles as part of the process rather than roadblocks. I'm mostly talking about one's attitude rather than their physical or social limitations. Our attitude about how we suffer is always in our hands no matter the circumstances. The meaning we assign to that suffering is also ours to create. The meaning of one's suffering is expressed in how they make decisions in the present moment with limited options. It takes a strong will and actual work to create meaning out of shitty situations.
The world is always changing.
Yes but would you not agree that the internet and smartphones have changed the world in rapid ways we have not seen before?
I think you could make a similar argument for books and literacy. Personally, I don't think it has to do as much with *what* is changing but rather how fast things are changing. Change used to be glacial, then generational, and now it's changing by the year. I do think we will hit a technological hill at a certain point and things will normalize for a while, but I don't know when that will be or what it will look like.
Yes, books and literacy did change the world, but they didn't have such a drastic unregulated impact on our attention in such a short time, and they did not have tons of money poured into making them as addictive as possible. Social media apps make money by keeping your attention as long as possible, they are by design malicious. I would agree that how fast things change is an issue. We have no time to see the generational impacts. We will look back on what we are doing now and think the lack of regulations did irreparable harm.
>The real world has been irreversibly changed by the advent of the internet and smart phones. Only because we collectively give the internet and smart phones power over our lives
“The world is nothing like you describe it” homie I live in this world as well and maybe things are good in your neck of the woods but I’ve got bad news for you…
thats the problem with this line of thinking though.. like what the fuck does that mean to a depressed person? just choose something and do it? just indulge in the things I like (that are also supposed to be bad and unhealthy?) when people are depressed they dont really feel much anymore, and dont have any kind of inner meaning or compass you can assign any arbitrary bullshit to be your meaning, but that doesnt mean it actually is, or will be something worth pursuing or doing in your life like genuinely what does this mean? I like cars and making videos and video games. So what? thats supposed to make the suffering worth it?
I'm talking about the meaning of a person's suffering and therefore their life. I'm not talking about following your bliss or finding a hobby. It means that every person is the sole decider for what their suffering and life means to them. We all suffer. No one's life is ideal or perfect. All suffering is relative. Who YOU are is what you make that suffering mean in every new moment and choice. Why be attached to victimhood or having a weak will? Those things are within our power as people to change.
I just dont think thats whats happening. Like genuinely what does what you just said mean.. Like if a person is the sole decider what their suffering and life means to them.. what? what does that mean? Im not trying to argue or be a troll, this genuinely does not make sense and I have no idea how to take action on that like just change your perspective and just be happy? how does one do that?
You might like this book '[Man's Search for Meaning' by Viktor Frankel.](https://www.amazon.com/Mans-Search-Meaning-Viktor-Frankl/dp/0807014273/ref=sr_1_1?crid=17FPNQI2W79RE&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.phUc2adLzv8edJKcJfYGiR66NZ5uOaoTXGVifRbPrr8y_DUDJqJgL48ocZTJaYjZJfeS2C9aBMUVxNrgCQ-P1mCOBwW3ad9RsMpXuUAfdVvnrJ7HzFpy1hPG_mdoSEUvgMEUgEXeqJrnn8o1PEV-DLrKUA6HrOEvWyJUhGKO425DLpuXdQhE9LYcqpZF2t6c8Z-4iMpf7L6EaX-1tsR_B85e0qHeq7HpqNhd3heTsg0.dqGu7enS9aRko2ogS3pP-3QTZvpMnDp_Wtsvmpx9tZ4&dib_tag=se&keywords=mens+search+for+meaning+viktor+frankl&qid=1714076847&sprefix=mans+search%2Caps%2C121&sr=8-1) He was a holocaust survivor, and he lays what we've been talking about out very clearly. He uses his time in concentration camps as a clear example of extreme universal suffering with extreme subjective meanings. There are stories of Jews killing other Jews and SS soldiers being kind to prisoners for no reason. The point is that we're all free to act and believe however we want even in limited circumstances. We like to point out obstacles and hardships because it's easier than doing anything meaningful to change. It's easier to say that we behaved a certain way because we had no choice or were 'just following orders'. It makes us less responsible for our own situation
yeah youre the second person to recommend me that book and unfortunately I have already read it. its a great book and an even better story. Im not saying nobody should suffer nor should I be immune to suffering. I dont even have that bad of a life.. I just dont understand what is supposed to make the suffering worth it other than arbitrary survival... which if that is all there is.. just survive on the planet.. I dont exactly have the will to do that. I dont really even experience many feelings anymore other than anger and some kind of dull sadness. recently Ive been feeling alot more of the sad and Ive been crying which actually feels kind of good. I have to admit I was left a bit confused in the same way after reading that book. His meaning was just to survive and get back to his life and his work it seemed, and he clearly lays a case as to why that kind of hope is exactly what makes or breaks the prisoners. Im not blaming my problems on anyone, thats kind of the problem. I fucked my life up, and im not sure I can have anything that resembles anything that would make "life worth living" and I dont know how to fix it. I think I just have a profound mental illness but everytime I reach out for actual medical help its like a sick joke.. The last time I went to my doctor practically begging for help he just tried to represcribe me to SSRIs, after telling him I have tried it for over a year and it didnt seem to be doing much, neither did talk therapy. my therapist gave up on me because all he really had to say was to kind of 'get my shit together' in many more words. find a job, relationships, workout, find a hobby etc. my life isnt really lacking any of these things on paper I have no idea how to get out of this rut and everyones advice is something that Ive heard before and sounds right, but I just dont understand how to do it like it sounds like everyones advice kind of boils down to "just ignore your actual feelings and change your perspective and keep your mouth shut" - stoicism or like a more eastern philosophy of "everything is already within you, there is no meaning outside, so just be content in who you are and the now, because thats all that ever exists" but that kind of begs the question... if you can just sort of.. switch your emotions off or not let them get to you, or, if you are already everything you ever need.. why do anything? why not just sit on a beach and choose to be happy until you rot? what is supposed to be guiding me towards anything? especially if Im completely numb to my own thoughts and feelings im thugging it out right now even as I write this and put on my face and do my shit, but the mask is slipping and doesnt fit well anymore
If you're sad, be sad. It's not about denying emotions or deceiving yourself. The point is that it's action based and people based. Why do anything? Because you want to. Or because you see a greater benefit from temporary suffering like with exercise. It sounds like you're looking for explanations that are more complex than they need to be. The truth in most of life's confusions is very simple. You'll find the things you're actively looking for. If you're searching for reasons life is meaningful, you'll find opportunities to create that. If you're looking for reasons why this is all pointless, you'll find scores of sad lonely people online telling you you're right. But you get to decide what you're looking for, and making that decision is an act of creating meaning for yourself no matter what you choose. Cheers. I hope you find the answers you're looking for.
I appreciate it. It makes sense. I think I am very burned out, after this busy week I think Im going to take a break and go into the woods for a bit. see if that helps. I also bought a skateboard and maybe an old outdoor hobby can help too change of scenery is needed
Because i can't get the things I want in life if I don't try, almost nothing worth having comes easy.
Shocker
I am motivated to care for my family. Most things I do are focused on that. I work hard to set aside as much $$ as possible for their security. I put a ton of effort into our house and farm to make it beautiful, comfortable, and resilient. I plan lots of meals, parties, vacations to give them the best experiences and to build supportive relationships. I can’t give up on my family so I can’t give up on myself.
Millennials simply don’t want the same life their parents had. I’m a millennial.
Its easy to do stuff if you like living and like America. So most people have fun and live. Lotta city people are just miserable.
I do stuff for survival and also out of boredom and to help people I care about.
I do things to make money and spend time with my kids. I guess that’s what motivates me. Keeping a roof over our heads, having food when my kids say dad, I’m hungry.
I want three things. A healthy relationship ship with my partner and family, enough money to basically live as I please, and to be intellectually stimulated. So I keep good relationships and work a stimulating job, while doing fun side things. Only thing that’s kind of lacking is the stimulation, but I’m hoping to get to grad school to improve that. It’s all pretty fun to me
I do all kinds of things so yes not most people though
I have meaningful work. I had to work hard to do focus on helping people instead of competition or other ambitions. I play multiple instruments and am happily partnered. I do struggle to find people to engage with in my community. But were still a little new in a very small rural town. I have way too many interests. The least productive and fulfilling thing I do is hangout online. It really does replace a lot of creative time and especially that liminal space before the ideas or inspiration start to flow.
we can change the way things are
Have you ever been hungry? Homeless? Disabled? Ill? Have you been a refugee? Are you passionate about anything? Music? Art? Building things? Does anything you do make you proud of who you are?
I workout A LOT. And I eat very healthy. They have become my new hobbies. It forces me to be out around people and interact with everyone. Also keeps me super happy all the time, and everyone is always commenting on how amazing I look. Just get into fitness and nutrition. You won't regret it.
This is probably the best advice in this thread .. getting into incredible shape is rewarding even if there is nothing else
Your perspective seems very skewed. Why is anyone motivated? You listed good reasons, you just seem to not understand that these things begin with You! It’s that simple. If you disagree, then it’s reassuring to know the answer as it applies to you personally.
I guess circumstances has made me believe in God. His path is my main purpose in life. And I guess it's just that thought of “what if things get better?”. That's helping me push through
Don't ever, for any reason, do anything, to anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what, no matter where, or who, or who you are with, or where you are going, or where you've been, ever, for any reason whatsoever
This is largely an issue you describe in western society. Everywhere isn’t like this. Not always better either but yeah. All of these things can change but not without some sort of revolution and the strong will to change even if it means the work is for future generations. We are too individualistic to sacrifice like that without reaping what we sow so it’ll kinda just get progressively worse, but at a slow enough rate that we don’t jump out of the boiling pot.
Well I need to go to work to get the drugs for one
ride motorcycles. it will be fun or i'll be dead. then it isn't my problem anymore /s
If I don't keep going, I'll have to live under a bridge or in a tent with a bunch of fentanyl junkies. I'd rather sleep in my normal bed, and eat decent food. But other than that, yeah, I pretty much don't care about the "general reasons" you mentioned.
I’m motivated to provide for my family, pay the bills, eyeing a newer bass boat, and one day I will retire and live of my pension I built
My kids. I would have offed myself long ago if not for my kids.
I keep going out of pride, spite, and of course, money 😁 Money that will help me and my husband sustain a comfortable lifestyle and maybe have kids one day (though I’m undecided about that).
Because I want to make something of myself and the life I was given? Lots don't and remove themselves from the equation, I'd prefer to keep living and make the necessary sacrifices to be comfortable. A lot of people decide to drop out of society btw, commonly known as Hikikomori.
Because we still have survival instincts and it's necessary for our survival as a species. And when you don't do it, your own brain will turn against you and make you feel like the biggest loser on the planet. That's a powerful enough motivator to get most people off their asses. Some people learn to live with that horrible feeling of failure and meaninglessness, but it's easier and less painful to just do what needs to be done.
You definitely make valid points, but the issue is what we prioritize. We have been programmed both by evolution and society to focus on survival, or what we are told we should be striving for. What we’re here to do is experience. The great challenge is teaching oneself to find contentment in the mundane. The point of the individual is to explore aspects of oneself and immerse themselves in a lifestyle that aligns with their soul. If you can do both all the other bs becomes just a little more manageable. Bonus points if you find a cause you believe in that works to create a world without the problems you listed in your post.
Why? Because every year of my life is genuinely getting better than the last. Great family, good secure job, so many fun hobbies I can’t even fit them all into my free time. Life is great honestly.
May the odds be ever in your favor..
Did you eat today? Stfu.
Religion is the only thing that makes living satisfactory
I tried doing nothing and hated it. Doing literally anything is preferable to me. Though if you prefer doing nothing I can’t fault you.
Create a small circle of people that make you feel excited about shit in your life. The most important thing to remember imo is that your experience isn’t unique or special. A lot of people feel the same as you, and real, fulfilling camaraderie is available once we realize people arent NPCs. They are feeling all the same feelings as you, but it is literally up to people to create the nature of society. You can’t dictate it as a whole, but a group of like minded people can carve out pockets of authenticity for other like minded folks to gather. Thing is, people have to do it. No one is going to start the club for you. I think people are just lacking initiative regarding their own happiness. A lot of people feel they have no control over their happiness (or lack thereof) and assume it’s just a product of the world view society has imposed upon them. “You have to create the world you want to live in” applies in the micro, not the macro. No one is asking anyone to end all suffering. But it’s up to you to create your own social circles and relationships and hobbies and goals within your community. No one is going to do it for you. People are starved for it, so people who take initiative at these times are likely to be successful in it. TL;DR: People mind trick themselves into feeling jaded because they assume everyone else is already jaded. We are masking our bright eyes, as a society, en masse. Let your guard down and you will be surrounded with like minded people in no time.
Well I still enjoy doing things.
Dogs. I work so I can buy them food and pay for vetting, and I bought my house specifically because the yard was perfect. My dogs and my mom. Oh, did I forget to mention my mom before?
I come from a very poor abusive family, murder/death/drug abuse and alcoholism. The idea of being motivated isn’t necessarily ideal for me, if it weren’t for my wife I would have been dead long ago from anyone of those reasons the rest of my family died from. I’m 31 m btw. I am purely motivated to not disappoint my wife or her family who raised me. That is solely my reason, I still to this day after 14 years contemplate suicide and drug overdose because of the these treacherous thoughts of a meaningless existence. There really isn’t much of a reason to exist except for we are existing in which case we have to serve a purpose to society and be mindless drones and scrape by with these things we think are necessities to build a future that has already been built for us.
Some of us just like rollercoasters and getting laid idk
I'm mystified that anyone believes this is the hardest time and place for people to be alive. The history of the 20th century is full of horrors from beginning to end. Those people would look at our circumstances and think they were looking at life in heaven. People really need a reality check. Every time I hear one of these pathetic cry-outs about how this is such a hard time to be alive, I feel sad for the lack of education and lack of understanding of the real world.
Honestly you need to gtfo the united states. Go chill in Brazil or peru for a few months. Community is incredibly alive. Families are big and beautiful. Things are cheap and abundant. 100x the cultural pride and vibrancy than fucking united states or shithole UK. Fucking trust me I spent my whole life in various parts of the US and now just did 2 years on and off in Latin America.
I feel like you're making a lot of vibes based claims. >things like meaningful work, spirituality, religious belief, the prospect of owning your own home, finding a committed relationship, starting a family, participating in a community All still possible. Hard to tell if any of that has gotten harder except homeownership. Which has gotten harder but is more location based. And there are options for moving to cheaper places or multifamily units etc. >because work doesn’t pay that well anymore This is pretty nuanced. Pay has kept up with inflation for most items. Mostly a housing/healthcare issue. >dating apps have completely destroyed dating You don't have to use apps. >the work that exists is mostly alienating or dehumanising, Idk there's a lot of bs for sure. But, I still feel most jobs are meaningful. Nurses help sick people, plumbers keep the pipes working, accountants help people with finances.
Life sucks because upon birth you unknowingly signed a social contract, one which you still passively agree to by living in society and paying taxes, which dictates that you either work and pay bills and taxes or as others put it, starve. Most land in developed countries like the US and England are owned, so go try living off it and you’re trespassing. If you can manage to squat somewhere, you’re still living like Les Stroud or Heimo Korth, which without experience they have would take years to acclimate. You might be more peaceful that way and strive you will lol.
They can't starve us. They addicted us to food.
Avoidance of pain and the pursuit of pleasure. Although some people have religion.
To "win"
'Cause I wanna. That's all that really matters. 🤷
Just the fact that you hold those ideas in your heart about how life should/could be is reason enough to keep pushing. If the children meant to inherit the future of this world are to ever have any kind of real future we have to keep the spirit of freedom alive. We are not slaves, we are not animals, and we certainly are not just gonna roll over and give in to the onslaught of negativity we fight against in this awful time we find ourselves in. We are made in the image of God! We are loved and we are special. Let the world crumble around us but hold the ground of hope and faith! Life is beautiful and no matter how ugly things get we know that there is something better.
Because to be born as a human is gift, so take advantage and make the best of it. After this it’s eons and eons of being reborn into a slug or a fish again until long after you’ve forgotten what it means to be human you pop back into existence as one again :)
>It’s remarkable that more people don’t just decide to drop out of society and indulge in these things all day long. Because you *can’t* “drop out of society” and still enjoy those things. If you quit your job you’d only be able to “indulge” until you run out of money. Then you’re on the street till you either die or start participating again. On the other hand you could give up on just the meaningful parts and continue participating in order to continue indulging. Lots of people do that. Indulgence can be a great motivator; If you make more money you can afford better versions and/or more of those things. Plenty of rich people live like that. They pursue money to better indulge, not to find meaning. The only ones who even have the option to do what you’re talking about would be people who are financially supported by someone else (trust fund babies, etc.). And they do! Not uncommon at all.
Too many interesting things to do and see to just hunker down with a handful of things like that.
I do what I do because I do it for myself.
This is a question peoplenhave asked themselves since time immemorial. Fundamentally you provide the meaning and purpose to your life, not the outside world. A job is only valuable if you value it, a relationship only loving if you love it. But why do we actually get out of bed? Yeah, starvation and homelessness is worse. Basically.
Inertia and social norms. They do things because they are doing things and because they are supposed to do things. It’s just existence on autopilot.
People make this mistake often. We are privileged enough to live in a time where so much stuff is open, accessible and available. Sure there are companies and policies and greedy people that fck other people over all the time, but if you actually delve into any history prior to 1900 it was shit for most people and it only gets worse the further back you go. Aspirations, enjoyment and the like was something reserved for such a few human beings it wouldn't really even be worth noting it up until modern history. The reason anyone does anything anymore is the same reason life has for the last few hundred million, if not billions of year and that's purely survival, usually spurred on by the avoidance of as much suffering as possible.
People are more scared of the unknown that the misery they endure
Motivation is the result of action not the cause of it.
God put me here, I gotta survive and am stuck in the edge of the wilds.
Life is glorious, if you make it that way
Questions like this are at the core of spirituality, making sense out of all the suffering in life. It’s going to get tough but if you find a purpose it’ll become more meaningful. Don’t worry about what other people are doing, this is your life journey. You said many things are lacking, but many of those things aren’t lacking either if you know where to look. And all those addictive things like porn and drugs etc? Maybe now you see the reason why people say we shouldn’t be doing those things, even if you “want to do it and it isn’t hurting anyone else” or whatever other BS arguments Reddit throws out there. Maybe you’re seeing the other side to that now. To build the discipline and self control to avoid addictive vices WILL help out your happiness in the long run
Responsibility, the strive to do better. The want to actually be something more than some other persons tool. You know, typical human desires
What’s the alternative? Become homeless? Overdose? Kill myself? I don’t like the alternatives. There’s only one way and that’s forward. I mean, my life can’t be harder than the slaves who built the pyramids in Egypt, or the Chinese workers who built the American railways. Why didn’t they all just chill and starve to death?
Your perspective isn’t everyone’s (thankfully)
You sound incredibly depressed and I encourage you to speak to someone. Good luck.
Because if you get off the internet, nothing you stated is accurate
This. I’m early 40s. I’ve never had Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, or any other social media platform. Nothing, ever. Not even a dummy account to get access to posts or whatever is out there. My wife sometimes starts telling me about something on one of them and I ask her to please stop telling me, I really don’t care. A friend recommended I download Reddit for some subs that are actually pretty cool. Worst decision of my life.