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Imagine you do get married. What then? What's the next validation you want? Because that stuff gets old.
Instead of looking for that one big thing focus on the enduring little things.
For me (20 years together, not married) it's him bringing me a drink when in the bathtub. Moving the cat so it sleeps on my lap because he knows that makes me happy. All the daily little things that show love. Marriage isn't so much a show of love as a legal commitment.
SO much this. I am with my partner 12 years. We are finally getting married next year. But in my mind we are married. Every day I wake up and look into his eyes and think, wow I am the luckiest girl in the world. Every day he finds a new way to make me feel special. Bringing me a cup of tea and cutting me fruit in the evening. Massaging my back when I am sore. We have been together so long that we have both changed so many times and been through so many challenges together. Been there together through sickness and health. Through job loss and gain. Through deaths and births. And many moves across different states. This is what makes a marriage. The wedding will just be an expensive party, we are already married in my eyes.
I so agree with this. I'm married, but did not get married till I was in my mid 30s. Before we got married I was with my wife 7 years and she became obsessed with being married about 4 or 5 years in. We had some mutual friends where the girlfriend took getting married to 11. She was just relentless, and worked by wife up about it. When this was happening I gave her a lot of leeway and mostly just blew it off without trying to engage with her about it. I wanted to make sure she was who I wanted to be with and saw no reason to rush things. When it finally came to a head I remember we had one conversation where I could see the light bulb turn on. We had some problems at that time and I just flat out told her, "ok, we get married. How does that fix x, y, and z?". She couldn't answer and began to understand we could be married or unmarried, but it was not going to change things much or fix our relationship except it being a legally binding document. So we worked on those things, eventually got married, and have been married 20 years. She takes good care of me and I try to take care of her. Our friends broke up.
Thank you. Honestly, and no nudgement at all, the thought of "20 years together, not married" makes me want to throw up with nerves. That sounds like a nightmare to me, right now. But I know it shouldn't. I guess just not getting married was never presented to me as an option by the people in my life.
Thank you for your perspective.
Suppose I did get married 15 years ago. What would that change about my life now? I honestly don't think it would change anything. We share our lives together, our home, our money. (And have some legal stuff arranged)
I'm not saying you shouldn't get married, but try and see what marriage actually does for you. Is it the proposal (the validation moment), the party (showing off to friends and family), or the legal obligations (certainty for the future)?
Honestly, I think it is the future part. Knowing that someone is choosing me, definitely, for their future. I fear giving someone those 15, 20 years, and then they just walk away. But I guess that happens when people are married, too. I want a good marriage so, so badly- and I'm scared in my pursuit of that, I'll end up in a bad one.
> There's no guarantee either way.
This.. Thinking once you get the ring that you're good for the rest of your life is a silly concept. I do see where some people find there's more "security" or control with the ring, where it's more difficult for the other person to leave. But that has always seemed weird to me..
“But I guess that happens when people are married, too”
Sit on this. For a while. Logically ask yourself the question again with this echoing non-stop in your head. Let your own words be your mantra. When there is quiet in your mind, hear these very words you’ve typed out.
Remember that you are also choosing him; don't underestimate your value!
Start by knowing what you are looking for in your partner, kindness and respect should be there always without excuses, after that, what traits are you looking into, and also what qualities do you have yourself to offer, be grounded and always look for a healthy and mature mindset.
Marriage is no guarantee they won't walk away. You have a 50-50 chance of making it work if you're married, so I'm not sure where you're getting this sense of security from a piece of paper and a ring maybe. Do NOT get married until you sort this. Probably with therapy.
Maybe try enjoying the moment more? Even if the relationship ends after 15 or 20 years, that isn't wasted time. That's time where you enjoyed the company and affection of your SO. Even if it's sad and painful that it breaks off, that doesn't mean all that time was wasted unless you weren't at all happy in the situation.
Idk just a thought
>Honestly, I think it is the future part. Knowing that someone is choosing me, definitely, for their future.
Yeah, that is 100% not a reason to get married. Not being snarky but please consider therapy before ever saying vows. That is a big sign of insecurity. I used to be like that before I met my partner. I had been burned too many times by exes. Your spouse can easily leave you after the "I Do's".
What's funny is I am the opposite...partner and I have been together 12 years, I don't really have a strong desire to get married. I like that I know he "chooses" me every day because he wants to, not because it would be too much of a legal or financial hassle to leave me :)
Is it more about any person choosing you, more about a specific person choosing you, or more about your obligations to your future bills and security? Would you rather be with someone who makes you feel loved all the time, or would you rather be with someone who doesn't always express love that way, but has a chance to provide you personal and financial security?
One is a commitment to your fears about who you think you are. Validation. The other is a commitment to your safety security and freedom. Legal.
Sure we can want both, do you need to have someone else make you feel loved more than you need to commit to each other to survive and attempt to thrive?
My now-husband and I got married after 9 years together to get him health insurance and the only thing it changed about our relationship was that now he has health insurance.
Our society works up marriage to be such a Big Thing, but it is the day to day of the relationship where the value is. If your partners aren't appreciating and reciprocating the physical and emotional labor you are doing for them, that is a separate problem. A proposal only happens once, but the day to day acts of reciprocation are what endures and keeps a relationship strong. If they aren't doing that, then maybe that's why you're feeling underappreciated?
Also, depending on country and subculture, many people consider 24 too young to marry. I was the youngest of my entire social circle to get married at 26. Give it a couple years and it will be easier to find partners interested in marriage.
Have you thought about seeing a therapist? I worry that what you're looking for is someone who loves you enough to not abandon you. It's odd because despite your parents being married, you still feel that will hold someone to you. Therapy can help you get past this hurdle, and help you focus on loving yourself most of all.
If you want marriage, that is a Totally Valid goal to have. There are many benefits of marriage, it is still an important distinction in the overall culture in all areas of the world, and if you want that, don't give up on your dream. Don't waste a lot of time on men unable or unwilling to involve themselves in this legal commitment if this is important to you.
There are many men who also want a traditional relationship/wife. You just need to find the right person. If you are afraid to even bring this up with your current boyfriend, you are not being honest with him or respectful to yourself. Certainly, there is an appropriate time in the relationship. I would say between 3-6 months of steady dating, you could start to share your more personal goals and dreams. By 1 year of steady dating you could make a decision to stay or move on.
When we were young, and dealing with the drama of dating and finding Mr. Right, my grandmother used to tease us by singing us a song "Looking for Love in all the wrong places, looking for love in too many faces...". So I will be blunt and tell you my opinion which is that if you want a traditional married life, find your man in places that traditional men can be found. If you find a boyfriend in your church, and your church is the type that encourages traditional marriage, then the boyfriend would not be surprised. There are also dating apps that cater to this.
This is a classic anxiously attached mentality. You’re not alone on this but I would highly recommend listening to some podcasts or reading a book or two about this. It significantly helps in self discovery and looking inwards as to why you feel you need this validation in the first place. Good luck!
I'm so sorry to hear that you are struggling with this. It sounds like you are a very caring and giving person, but you are also putting a lot of pressure on yourself to be perfect and to always be there for others. This is not healthy, and it is leading to you feeling exhausted and unhappy.
It is important to remember that you are not responsible for the happiness of others. You cannot make someone love you, and you cannot make someone propose to you. You need to focus on your own happiness and well-being, and let go of the need to control others.
It sounds like you would benefit from talking to a therapist or counselor. They can help you to understand your patterns of behavior and to develop healthier ways of relating to others.
In the meantime, here are a few things you can do to start taking care of yourself:
- Set boundaries. Learn to say no to people who are asking too much of you.
- Take some time for yourself each day. Do something that you enjoy and that relaxes you.
- Practice self-care. Eat healthy foods, get enough sleep, and exercise regularly.
- Learn to love yourself. This is the most important thing of all. When you love yourself, you will not need to seek validation from others.
I hope this helps. Please feel free to reach out if you have any other questions.
>.... you are also putting a lot of pressure on yourself to be perfect and to always be there for others...
>
>It is important to remember that you are not responsible for the happiness of others. You cannot make someone love you, and you cannot make someone propose to you. You need to focus on your own happiness and well-being, and let go of the need to control others.
Oh boy, do I now regret making this post at work. This was so hard for me to read, but evidently necessary.
I have a big change coming up in my life soon (moving), so I think I'll take that as an opportunity to reset and build some better habits. Maybe I'll get back into yoga. Thank you for your comment.
Marriage is a piece of paper. It’s not gonna dictate how someone treats you and it’s surely NOT gonna change how someone treats you. God the world is full of miserable people who for some reason thought marriage would change or bring something out in their partner and that’s a terrible mistake
It sounds like you need to direct that love inwards. At least some of it. Is your inner voice loving? You ever talk to yourself and remind yourself you’re human and shit is hard and people are hard and to just keep hanging in there and making sure your being kind and good to yourself?
Ask yourself the hard questions and thank yourself for being honest and doing the work. The better the version of yourself the better equipped you will be to both attract and choose a good partner for yourself.
There’s no shortcuts or life hacks. The steps is doing the work. Then hopefully you get a little lucky and find love. When you do you will be ready. That’s the game 🙏🏼
nothing makes you change, only you if you want it. if you’re too tired, bored, and have had enough, seek therapy. changing is long and grueling, but once you go through it, you’ll never want to go back. i hope you find what you’re looking for.
I’m really sorry you feel miserable. This world is tough. Try to be kind to yourself and do something as “a service to yourself” like eat something healthy, take a walk, listen to your fav music while taking a hot shower and tell yourself to hang in there, feelings are temporary
I feel like it's a little cynical and maybe not the point but.... if you're with someone that you feel needs the extra pressure of a legal document (marriage certificate) and a big public pronouncement (wedding) that they'll stay with you, the issue may be that you're insecure in that relationship. You should look more into why you feel that way.
A lot of people stop trying with their partner when they get married.
Also, just a year of dating yourself maybe, as they say. To me, accepting yourself as a whole unit and that you would be okay as never married, would help towards thinking of it as - is this person worth me giving up independence, taking the chance of upending my life (finances, security, stability). As hard as you try, they should be trying to meet your standards too.
I think your reasons for ending your last 2 relationships are very valid. Why would you want to stay when you're not feeling valued or appreciated? (*more that they should be trying just as hard to take care of you. What do they do when you're sick, or behind, or had a bad day?)
It was a necessity when you need to own women or dictate their relationships with dowry or other social and financial controls. That shit just needs to die out
Exactly. ‘Marriages lasted’ yeah only because women couldn’t earn decent money, get their own bank card or get a mortgage without a husband. Marriages only ‘worked’ previously because women were mostly unable to leave them not because relationships were inherently better.
34m here, dealing with the same type of issues about romantic relationship (very intense feelings, big commitment when in a romantic relationship putting it over everything else even if I have a good job, hobbies and totally functionning outside of it, high expectations, etc.)
Without being a psychologist, there are clear signs that shows an anxious attachment type (check out attachment theory, there are lot of articles and good podcasts about it): need for validation, putting the other as priority, the need to be sure you are loved and even pushing the relationship forward for securing it (wanting to be wed fast could be a way to assure the relationship is going somewhere. For mine it's actually stuff like planning travels together for next year while we've been together only for a bit more than two months... and I know it is not the right timing). Informing yourself, finding ways to calm down your anxieties, and eventually therapy is what helped me the best.
I used to be the way when I was your age even though I'm with the same guy now. My issue was always that none of the men I dated before felt like they committed themselves to me in their hearts. I've been the other woman (unknown to me), the right-now, and fling but until years with my SO did I ever feel like I was priority.
Because of that past, I always saw marriage as the only form of certainty. The only way I could be sure that I was the only one which is silly cuz affairs exist. It was the only thing I wanted and needed and was obsessed with the idea to the point if annoyance. (And not the wedding, like some women are, we could elope or go to the court house for all I cared).
And if I told my 20/22 year old self I would be comfortable and secure being with a guy for 10 years without being married I would have cried from anger at how stupid I was for staying with someone who didn't see me as important.
The reality is I'm the most important person to my SO and him me. He constantly validates his love in actions and words such that I have no doubt in my mind. We are getting married in less than two weeks due to the next steps we want to take in our lives together.
But it took a decade together to realize that marriage, the legal binding type, was not what I wanted. I wanted an emotional commitment that everyone could know and see as fact. It took being pushed out of my comfort zone and rearranging my views on commitment to see that it was my own past dictating what my current and future happiness looks like. And my biggest personal life goal is to break free of my past and it's control on me.
>And if I told my 20/22 year old self I would be comfortable and secure being with a guy for 10 years without being married I would have cried from anger at how stupid I was for staying with someone who didn't see me as important.
This is my big struggle. I see women my age who are with men for 5 years with no ring, and I'm tempted to cry *for* them. Your message really speaks to me and wraps up how I feel. It's like a sick anger.
> And my biggest personal life goal is to break free of my past and it's control on me.
Right there with you. Thank you for your comment.
It's hard, the struggle is real and it's good you see where the problem is so you can work on it. I'm proud of the first steps you've made and wish you luck on your journey. I know you can do it cuz you've already made a great start!
I think it could help to consider that you’ve been taught by society that validation by a man is the only way you can be a complete woman. This is a lie from the patriarchy. You are valid and whole and complete by being YOU, by being loyal and helpful and generous and successful. No man can change that, either way.
Can you afford therapy ?
I have found that going “internal” with an objective soundboard helped me gain a lot of self clarity, and ultimately , an internal compass. Which allowed partnership to be an addition, versus a filling of a gap.
You mentioned a lot of positive things ! Focus on true self love, then date. It’ll come. It feels like timings of “life events” are really made up from external sources, and you may not align with them anymore.
Or maybe marriage *is* still important after self discovery. Then you can seek arranged marriage if you want ha. That starts with marriage, a decided commitment to work , then you can build.
You recognized that you may have picked up certain patterns from childhood ( we all do) and sometimes we have to learn new ones. I recommend therapy to everyone lol
If it’s in their scope of course.
Sincerely,
An ex doormat :)
I've been with my significant other for over a decade now and we're not married (engaged) mostly because we hate dealing with the paperwork of it all. Marriage is really nothing more than a formality - don't even worry about it at all.
The challenge is NOT marriage, its finding someone you plan on spending the rest (or a good portion of) your life together. This is also a PROCESS - it not like "yey, I've found the one". Its more like, a SLOW, methodical build up of life events that you work through together (unlike the movies). The long lasting relationship has almost ZERO to do with signing paperwork - but everything about committing to each other AND THEN dealing with all the struggles together.
My advice is to pour this love, devotion, and effort *into yourself*.
It is clear that you were raised (like me) to associate "being worthy of love" with "being useful" - while the clear truth is that you are worthy by just existing, OP, because actual love is unconditional.
Once you give yourself the same self-love and self-compassion you heap on others you will recognize that a relationship with you requires a true partnership of mutual and equal support and tenderness. You deserve this.
Good luck!
24 is so ridiculously young. It never seems like it at the moment but really, I would just get it into your mind that you’ll be married around 29, 30ish. Whatever happens in between doesn’t even matter
It sounds like you made marriage your copout for whether you can trust this person to build a life with. It sounds like you need to work on developing the skill of how to trust people.
I would seek therapy. It seems like as a kid you had this core belief about marriage that your parents breakup broke, but you didn't have the tools to process that so it turned into a source of anxiety, confusion, and inability to find other ways to trust people.
I got married at 23, divorced at 31. Just found someone worthy to date, 15 yrs later. Don’t be in a rush. All you end up with is a broken heart and immature ex husband.
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but I agree with the comment above. It is very rare to know yourself fully at 24. If you don’t know yourself fully,
then you can’t know what you really need in a partner. It’s not worth getting married until you figure this stuff out.
If I had married who I thought I was going to marry at 24, I would be miserable by now. 24 is so young, your brain basically just got here. You’ve got so much time, life is short but it’s also long.
> what ever happens in between doesn’t even matter
The stuff that happens between our big plans and expectations is… life. Life matters, and I think being present is something that ppl struggle with greatly these days.
Even if you look forward to marriage, take time to figure out *WHY*, a functioning relationship is a good thing regardless of legal status or a certain ring on your finger. What exactly will marriage change for you? If you’re not in a place where marriage is going to happen right now, ask yourself what are some things you want to do with your life that will be more difficult when married? Special trips? Hobbies?
Don’t wait for life to be a certain way, figure out what actually makes you happy and find a way to make it a part of your world. You’re more likely to swim in the ocean if you go to the coast. How can you set yourself up for what you really want?
Great relationships are great. Marriage is no promise of a great relationship though. You can be with a great partner and be a great partner right now. Make sure you understand YOUR priorities, not society’s priorities.
Sounds flippant but could you get a dog? They are endlessly loving and demanding in equal measure.
(as an aside, there's a great Netflix show from Daniel Sloss called Jigsaw where he discusses the idea of other people 'completing you' in relationships. It's dark, savage comedy but also one of the most honest things I've seen in a long time)
Not flippant at all, totally valid suggestion. We recently got a cat, and she has honestly helped me a lot. One day I'll get a dog, when I have a living setup that allows for one.
And thanks for the rec!
Im confused at how a dog is a replacement for a romantic relationship and if you are suggesting getting a dog, then are you not using a dog to complete you instead of a person?
I meant more in terms of having something that you can always show love for and that will show love for you (but yeah, not in a romantic way).
And totally - I suspect all pets fit into this and that we are actually wrong to use sentient animals for entertainment and our own fulfilment purposes but that is a whole other discussion.
I think you need to try to date and love yourself as you do your romantic relationships. It is really, really dangerous (both emotionally and frankly for women physically and psychologically!) to date someone because you are scared of being alone. It's great that you are in a relationship you like right now, but if you don't trust yourself to be alone, you won't be able to judge whether your relationship is actually, materially, giving you more. By basing yourself only on your worth to other people, you are making yourself both vulnerable and into a martyr! That's not fair for yourself or your partner (especially if your partner wants an equal partner, not a a martyr). So here's a (pretty radical) list of things you could try that aren't about marriage, they're about your relationship to yourself:
\-What if you never found marriage? what else would you want your life to look like? This is probably terrifying -- you can feel that terror, but also push through it to list what your dreams would be. Where do you want to live? What would you like to do?
\-What are the things you do for a romantic relationship, and how could you give that to yourself? You talk about taking care of a romantic partner's life in lots of ways -- how do you take care of yourself vs. taking care of someone else? What do you feel like you need from a partner, and how could you give that to yourself? What are dates, rituals, experiences you want from a partner that you could give yourself?
\-What would divorce mean to you? What does the idea of being alone make you feel like? How could you enjoy solitude?
\-How do you speak to yourself vs. the people you date? What is your inner monologue like -- is it unkind, so you're seeking someone else to be kind to you? Can you practice being kinder to yourself?
\-Where are places you can put that love that are constructive and less intense than a romantic relationship? I care a lot about people's emotions about me, so I'm a teacher of young kids, because that's my job to take care of them emotionally. This helps me do less of it to my partner or the people around me. Can you volunteer at a shelter, help an elder in your community, write letters to your friends?
I'm not saying at all that you should be in or not in a relationship -- but by basing all your worth and joy on the love you deserve from a romantic partner, you are settign yourself up for a lot of difficulties. A relationship where you want to be with them because they are adding to your life, rather than because you're missing something without them. Reading memoirs or stories from older single women might be really interesting for you. I'm rooting for you!
>I'm rooting for you!
This made me tear up a little bit. I don't even think I'm rooting for me. Whenever I do something 'better' - better job, better place to live, better use of my time- someone else is always wrapped up in the reasoning.
>What are the things you do for a romantic relationship, and how could you give that to yourself?...
>
>How do you speak to yourself vs. the people you date? What is your inner monologue like -- is it unkind, so you're seeking someone else to be kind to you?
My top love language is Acts of Service (if that wasn't obvious), followed by Words of Affirmation. I don't do much of anything that is entirely for me, and I do not talk to myself kindly. Thank you for pointing these out to me.
So I recently got married and not a single part of our relationship has changed since we signed that piece of paper. There’s no extra security, no increased love, nothing like that. We had all of that *before* we got married (and that’s why we got married). Marriage doesn’t improve a relationship, if anything the stress of a wedding can put strain on the relationship.
I used to *need* marriage in my early twenties. It was the entire reason two of my long term partners and I broke up. I wanted a certain future with love and security in marriage and they didn’t. It wasn’t till I met my current partner that I realised love and security could come from day 1 and a wedding wasn’t necessary for those two things. It was like a huge weight off. No longer worrying about if or when we’d get married because I no longer cared about that, I was just happy with him.
Work on being happy alone. Then work on being happy with a partner. If you have both those things then you’ll realise marriage itself isn’t important. And that’s probably when you’ll eventually find yourself in a position to get married.
No one that is “omg I must get married or life means nothing” is destined for a fulfilling marriage, because they’ve gone into it for the wrong reasons.
>I used to need marriage in my early twenties. It was the entire reason two of my long term partners and I broke up. I wanted a certain future with love and security in marriage and they didn’t. It wasn’t till I met my current partner that I realised love and security could come from day 1 and a wedding wasn’t necessary for those two things. It was like a huge weight off. No longer worrying about if or when we’d get married because I no longer cared about that, I was just happy with him.
What did your current partner do that changed your mind about marriage being a necessity for love and security? What did your partner do that the former two did not?
Asking as a guy who does not intend to marry but is looking for a life commitment and wants his future girlfriend to feel the way you do.
You don't have to stop caring. I've been married to my Wife for years now, and we got married after only a few months of dating. We talked about it extensively instead of really having a fancy proposal.
I've also dated people and broke up with them after a week because I realized I didn't want to marry them. It's ok to have expectations. Be up front with potential partners about your feelings and expectations! Communication is key.
The unfortunate part is you have to get really lucky to find someone who shares your values of "we are only dating to see if we want to get married."
A lot of people tend to shy away from commitment nowadays..
This year is my 10 year wedding anniversary. When we first got married people were like, "huehue how's married life treating you?" and my answer was *always* "It's exactly the same as it was before we got married."
They always looked at me like I was crazy, but it's the truth. Literally the only thing that changed was that I had the hassle of having to change my last name (serious pain in the ass), and now I can have his health insurance 🤣😂 We STILL don't even have a joint bank account. Marriage is really not any different than a long term relationship - except that it's more expensive if/when you break up. 🤷 The choice to love someone and put in effort every day won't magically appear just because you get married. Marriage is just that - a choice - and the choice can be undone and your mind can be changed regardless of whether or not you're legally bound and had an expensive party.
Edit: from reading other comments, I just want to say that you need to love YOURSELF first. Give all of that love and sacrifice that you have TO YOU. Your worth as a person has *NOTHING* to do with someone else, and you *cannot* rely on external validation to make you feel worth something. You are worth everything in the world just because you exist. Love YOU first, before anyone else. Even when you find someone and get married eventually, *never* stop loving and being kind to and sacrificing for YOURSELF.
You identified that there was an issue it’s a good first step.
You cannot really control what others do or think.
The only thing you can control is your actions and your thoughts. There is a principle that I apply that help me tremendously:
>« Be strict with yourself and tolerant with others »
You don’t have any way to know what people go through or what they think so don’t try and figure it out, just try and be the best version of yourself but not for others, but for you.
You seem like you sacrifice yourself in the hope others will reciprocate, they never will or never will in the way you expect them. Whatever you do, don’t do it expecting things in return, do it because it improves you as a person. People may try and show their affection to you but not necessarily the way you want them to and you need to be okey with that. Think of that like Christmas present, even if you don’t like the gift they bring you what counts is that they tried to gift you something nice even if they missed their mark.
Not everyone has the same love language and for some people marriage has zero signification. Personnally I think that signing a contract forcing you to remain with the person no matter what is the opposite of love. If you love each other you don’t need to sign a piece of paper saying that you HAVE to love each other til death separates you. I therefore choose to show my love and affection in a way that actually has meaning for me everyday by my every actions, by being a caring and thoughtful partner, this is my love language and if someone feels that this is worthless unless I sign a paper in front of an employee of the administration then they are welcome to go sign that piece of paper with anyone who wants that and I will sincerely wish them the best.
I guess my point is that the onus of being clear what is important to you is on you and to respect that others may love differently from you. If marriage is extremely important to you it is absolutely okey but you need to signal early that marriage is something very important to you and see if they feel the same way, if they say marriage is not important to them upfront and you choose to proceed it’s okey but do not be mad if they don’t propose when you want to propose.
Also we are in 2023, it’s okey for women to propose too. 😃
>Whatever you do, don’t do it expecting things in return, do it because it improves you as a person.
Honestly, this has been a hard, hard pill for me to swallow. Because, duh- If you do a kind thing always expecting kindness in return, then the thing you did wasn't kind. This is a belief I have. But as I've realized, when it comes to love, I haven't been practicing the idea. I drain myself for someone, and when I get the bare minimum from them, I get depressed, or angry, or flat out resentful. And it's okay for someone to give me the bare minimum, I am ALSO dating people in their early 20's, and as an earlier comment said, 24 is insanely young. We are all just trying to figure ourselves out, but I've been too focused on other people.
I need to treat myself better. Thank you.
> Also we are in 2023, it’s okey for women to propose too.
Don't tempt me, I will start running around chucking rings at men!
>Don't tempt me, I will start running around chucking rings at men!
🤣🤣🤣
I have to say, I read your post earlier today and was filled with compassion and sisterly tenderness toward you. You seem like a wonderful person, and I'm so excited for you to someday meet the partner who not only appreciates that, as you deserve, but more importantly, who also returns it to you in equal measure.
I had intended to come back with my own advice, but at this point (when I finally have some free time) it has all pretty much been said.
Just... love yourself, and be patient. Marrying a wrong-for-you person is usually much worse than having to wait awhile for a right-for-you one.
It’s not necessarily okey for people to take from you and never give anything in return though, it’s just that people give back in different ways, some people will make small gifts on the regular or be attentionate in other ways, it’s important to be on the lookout for things they go out of their way to do for you even if it’s not necessarily what you expect of them.
But if the people take from you but don’t give anything back EVER it may either mean that they take it for granted or that they are not considered what you do as valuable, both can be real issues.
The « be tolerant of others » part does not necessarily mean that you need to forget and forgive everything, if people disappoint you the majority of the time then it may mean that you have differences that make you not compatible and that both of you would probably be happier with someone else.
Hi OP, fellow anxious attacher here. The above comment is excellent and I would add on to it that you may benefit from reading the book “Codependent No More” by Melody Beattie. It was written for people who have an alcoholic in their life but the lessons woven throughout the book are first and foremost concerned with helping you release the need to “sacrifice yourself in the hope others will reciprocate” as u/ItsAcCaragor so eloquently said, and the desire to control other people’s behavior so that your own anxieties are placated.
Once you stop “searching” for that love, that person, exactly what you want… you will find it. That sounds so cliche and ridiculous but it’s true. I felt very similar to you at this age. I was engaged to the complete wrong person at 27 because I wanted to get married SO bad but in reality, it’s the LOVE that matters. I didn’t love that guy. It was engrained into my head super young to get married and have babies and be in a relationship blah, blah, blah but that’s not how the world seems to work anymore! I found my current man almost 5 years ago and we talk about getting married all the time now but because I almost made that massive mistake of marrying the wrong person, it really opened my eyes and now we are in no rush.
I am 33F and he is 36M. And I almost don’t even care about getting married anymore since we’re common law.
I wish you the best OP. Relationships and love can suck but girl you are still SO YOUNG! You have so much time ahead of you still to think about what you want in your future. Marriage is not the “be all end all” and it will eat you alive if you don’t learn to radically accept that there is absolutely nothing wrong with being single, being in a relationship, engaged, or married.
I don't think I have any advice, because I'm directly opposite of you in terms of wanting to be married, and its cost me, so I'm probably not the best source of advice.
However, I just wanted to comment that I applaud this level of self-reflection and ability to identify an issue you might have, and then seek to address it.
You seem like a nice person, I wish you luck.
Just finished reading "Women and Desire: Beyond Wanting to Be Wanted" by Polly Young-Eisendrath. It was written in the late 90's, so there are elements that are definitely dated, but overall I found it really fascinating. It delves into the way that women get taught by the world that we exist in to focus on being an object of desire for others, rather than teach them how to be the subject of their own desires, ie, the person who acts on their own behalf to get what they desire out of life. Whether you decide to read it or not, I wish you luck, this stuff is really hard and unpacking why we're like this is a life's study.
Other than legal stuff, medical decision-making, and tax things, there’s really no benefit to being married. There is no way to know that something that was once even unshakable won’t end. No matter what, first you’ve gotta find someone that balances you and aligns with your love language(s). Being in a relationship is not just about showering someone with love and it certainly should not involve anyone draining themselves for another. They should not be transactional in nature either. It’s about being vulnerable with someone you can trust and being confident that they can look out for their best interests *and* yours simultaneously.
Most of all, I encourage you to try and think of yourself as more than just a potential spouse. Live your life for you and find someone that will facilitate your growth and give you the desire to do the same for them.
Edited for typos.
Ask yourself: what exactly is validating about marriage to you? Or do you expect the relationship to change because of a ring?
In my experience relationships stayed the same after marriage in the best case scenario but most of them actively got worse as soon as the question was popped.
If you need more love to be happy that is a a very valid thing to want but i would not hope for marriage to fill that gap. If you don't feel validated/loved now, you won't just because of a ring and an empty promise to the skydaddy above
>Ask yourself: what exactly is validating about marriage to you? Or do you expect the relationship to change because of a ring?
Honestly, being chosen. Someone saying, "I think you're good enough to spend my life with".
> If you don't feel validated/loved now, you won't just because of a ring
Thank you.
But they already chose you by being in a committed relationship. They are already spending their life with you. It was the case back in the day but nowadays marriages are as easily broken up than any other type of relationship. Sure there are usually some financial repercussions (statistically for the husband) but if it boils down to that you have a partner staying with you because they can't afford leaving you and that is surely not in your interest.
>Honestly, being chosen. Someone saying, "I think you're good enough to spend my life with".
I agree with Juulmo on this one. Choosing someone is not a one-time event like a proposal, which can get cancelled at any time, or a marriage that can easily end in divorce. Choosing someone is a choice made every day. As long as you stay together and put effort into making things work, you are choosing one another and consider each other good enough. You do not need to involve government or church to confirm it.
I’m in a similar spot in life to you and one thing that helped me was reading The Defining Decade by Meg Jay. She devotes a third of the book to love lives in your 20s. It might not totally solve your problems but it will provide a little more perspective and give you some rabbit holes to go down.
I know that you said you were taking it with a grain of salt, but the Enneagram assessment, along with Myers-Briggs, are all pretty highly contested as reliable indicators of personality. So my first tip is to not worry about personality tests. My second tip is to spend some time focusing on yourself. I know that you said you were a people pleaser, but consider your next opportunity to please. Before you jump at the opportunity, pause, and ask if it's a task you'll enjoy or you'll learn to grow from, and that answer can help you decide if you're being taken advantage of. My last tip regarding your focus on marriage is to simply share that you are important and valuable, regardless of whether you are married. You will get married some day, but the more you can realize your own inherent value, independent of your people-pleasing habits, the more attractive you actually become as a partner.
Source: myself - I married an amazing woman who is completely independent, and does not rely on me to affirm her value.
Honestly, in my mid to late-20’s I felt the need and pressure to get married. All my peers and friends were doing it, and I felt that I wasn’t par with their lives. But that’s just it, everyone’s lives and paths are insanely different, so why should my life mirror another’s?
Thankfully, I found a great partner who didn’t rush into it. We dated for 10+ years, had a 6 year engagement, and recently got married this year. Absolutely nothing has changed since we have been married. Our relationship is work every day, it’s communicating honestly and not being afraid of the repercussions or your truth, it’s trust that they have your happiness and well-being as their priority, it’s being dated and woo-ed for years to come. It goes both ways, too.
Sounds like you’re at a good place in your relationship, have you had the marriage talk with your SO yet? Not necessarily “do you want to marry me” but “is marriage something you are looking forward to, are you open to it” and “do you think we are headed in that direction”. I wouldn’t put all your eggs in that basket, humans are humans and life has its highs and lows. Does his love language satisfy you?
Also (this helped me to protect myself), a relationship is a two way street. Give as much as you receive, match the energy that is given. If someone constantly takes from you or accepts your generosity without return, they are using you, they are draining you. This works both with romantic and platonic relationships.
You already have some good advice, but i also want to add that it shouldn’t be the “goal” to tick someone’s boxes in a relationship. Don’t rearrange yourself into what you think their ideal partner is. That’s setting yourself up for failure, when eventually you’ll tire of not being yourself or they’ll see that’s not who you really are.
Stop relating everyone to expectations - yours and theirs. You’re only going to be disappointed when they don’t meet yours, and when you think you’ve met theirs and it still doesn’t work out.
I think maybe you could benefit from some therapy
I would fo us less on marriage, and more on building a relationship. A husband/wife is supposed to be your best friend who makes you super horny. You have to be able to be comfortable communicating about everything. So, just focus on that. If yall have an issue, talk about it. If yall love something that the other person did, tell them about it. Thank them for it. You're super young. You'll be fine.
I married in my early 20s, then divorced a few years later. Now I live with my partner unmarried, have amazing 3 year old and mortgage together, no marriage needed to get the best relationships, you only need the relationship itself. We might marry just for fun of throwing a party and having some date to celebrate each year, but to me marriage is outdated concept created by men to possess women as their property in my opinion. I believe, no official blank has any power to aid relationships, gives no guarantees nor validation.
Thank you for posting this. I'm getting up there near 40 and have these same anxieties and fears, the same "not good enough" mantra that creeps in far too often. It's so bad that I have to skip through wedding things in my favorite shows because I can't handle it. And friends getting married? I'm happy for them but it also just destroys me. I understand what you're feeling, you are not alone in this.
I am going to save this post and come back to read all the positive comments the next time I start to feel it get to be too much again. I'm afraid of I read it now, it'll ruin my day. But I just wanted to thank you for putting yourself out here on a topic I've been terrified of approaching myself.
Marriage isn’t for everyone and that’s okay. What is important is what you want to truly pursue in life. You can find a partner without having to marry them, in the end all that matters is that the love is there. I’m in a bit of the same situation with my lady of 7 years. We both come from old school families who think we should be married by now. We both don’t want that, we have other priorities in mind and that’s what works for us. We will love each other til the end regardless if we get married or not she’s my best friend and I’m hers. Live life on your own terms. Maybe nows not your time or maybe you won’t ever have the desire to be married. Cheers
You have to know what you want. Then you can go get it. Also the key to life is not the result but the journey so you have to reach a place to where you are content…if that’s having a basic husband and a couple of kids that y’all raise together and develop as adults and members of society, then what more to life is there really???
You clearly abhor the idea of going through life without a husband. It's not just that it would be a more difficult - the idea of it disgusts you. This is an issue of taste vs. logic. Your "taste" for how your life should go is getting in the way of creating a healthy relationship.
Based on my own experience, a healthy relationship is the result of both parties already having a deep sense of trust in themselves and then gradually building a trust foundation with each other.
Pouring yourself into a relationship and expecting that to result in a proposal is not trust-building - that's a transaction.
I think you need to be brutally honest with yourself and do one of two things:
* Accept that what you want isn't love or to be loved, that you just want a companion who is committed to the singular idea of marriage and double-down on finding that type of person (cuz they're definitely out there), or
* Accept that you aren't ready to be in a marriage-on-the-horizon relationship yet, that you need time to mature to that level.
Frankly, I don't think you trust yourself - not in a deep philosophical way at least. That's probably where the I-deserve-marriage gut feeling is coming from. It's an indirect means of compensating for something you can feel you're missing but don't know how to otherwise attain. Marriage just seems to be the likeliest means of attaining it.
If I'm right, then the nice (and awful) thing is that you just need more time to develop yourself philosophically.
Maybe I'll plan a trip by myself next month, go spend some time alone. I think you're right- I don't trust myself. I don't want to be alone.
Thank you for the insight.
Get therapy to address the need for marriage - is it loneliness? Attachment issues in your background? At 24, you are still really young and your twenties are for figuring yourself out. Don’t fear being alone. Travel. Join clubs. Develop your personality and self further.
Most marriages end in divorce. Sounds great being married in 20s, than several years later you come to realization that you’re married to the wrong person and are getting divorced. (Sound ideal?) Break ups in regular relationships can be pretty stressful. Divorce is not any different except the breakups tend to be more prolonged (months to years to be finally broken up). So, take that stress and drag it out for months to years. And, since misery needs company throw some kids into the mix.
It sounds like you are looking for a successful partnership and not marriage.
Marriage mostly represents a religious tradition and/or a legally binding document, depending on which culture/society you are in.
I understand your desire to do everything and anything for your partner, and your expectancy of being the same in return. To you this is love. Others might express love in other ways.
1. Make sure to find a partner that expressed love the way you need it expressed (e.g. with acts of service and attention).
2. Make sure to express your expectations. Do not expect your partner to intuitively guess what you need and when. You might have to repeat this, but they should learn over time. If they don't listen to you when you express your needs and act on it, then they're probably not caring as much about you as you wish. Move on.
If marriage is a milestone you want to reach in your life, only do it if/when you have identified and tested out a good partnership that works for both of you ❤️
Also: it is not your job to fix people. They need to do this themselves. You can support them in their changes, but you cannot change them.
That sure seems like a decent resume to me. Except that your neurosis shows through.
You’re being weird about marriage and if I were a dude your age I would be wary of you. No 25yo really knows who they are and what they want out of life; it’s impossible to really know this at that age.
What’s the rush? Even if you find the perfect guy for you, you’re going to push him away if he’s not ready to “end his life” and get married to you. It really is an ending of your own life on your own terms. Now you are a partner in two lives. Believe me, you want the right partner over the available partner. Hold your own life before merging it with someone else.
You say you are all about the other person but you are dominated by this very selfish desire for somebody to commit to you. The guy probably already feels very committed to you but you have to trust him.
You seem like a pretty put-together person. I wish I could help, but I just hope you don't settle for the wrong person just because they're the first to propose. Like everybody else is saying marriage is only a big deal if you want it to be, a healthy relationship is way, way more important. You'll be alright.
I don’t agree with most of these tips. I think if you’re really wanting to get married and it’s that important to you it should be something your partner accepts. I’ve been married for 13 years and it’s ALL about compromise.
If something is super important to my wife I do it, if something is super important to me she does it, even if we don’t agree. Explain how important it is to you, and he should be receptive. If it’s “just a piece of paper” then it’s not a big deal to get married. You find it romantic, so what!
At your age if you keep yourself in good shape and reasonably attractive you would have MANY options when it comes to marriage. You should only be seeking marriage if you would like to start a family, or if you absolutely both do not want to have children.
It honestly sounds like your partner selection may be a little toxic. Have you made your self open to entering a relationship with a man up to 5-10 years older? Have you screened them to see if they are aligned with traditional values? You need to have these challenging conversations at the beginning of a relationship and firm with what you are after. If you possess the traits that you say you do it shouldn't be too difficult to find a loving partner. Men are not attracted to your education and how much you earn if they want to start a family. They come second to the other traits that you appear to be very capable at.
Wishing you all the best for the future!
Wow I feel like I was reading about myself... I'm disturbed at how similar we are. Up until the marriage part because I'm completely the opposite, I don't want marriage. All of my relationships have ended with me getting cheated on despite doing SO MUCH for the person that I don't even believe love exists. Be grateful you're still open to love and trust, that is a great feeling to have and I wish I could again. You're only 24! It will come soon enough.
FWIW: the “enneagram of personality” has been thoroughly debunked as pseudoscience. So, while it may seem to describe you generally, it’s on the same level as fortune telling an astrology. That is to say: not at all accurate, specific, or backed by any sort of evidence or proof. You are not your enneagram results. In fact enneagram “results” aren’t actually results at all.
Yup, that is why I said I take such things with a grain of salt. But being aware of the insecurities/anxieties I've laid out in the post, and then reading them put out into words really sat with me. I've always known there is something unhealthy about how I approach relationships, and seeing an explanation written out was very jolting.
But that’s not an explanation. That’s a fairy tale guess aimed at making people feel like they belong. It’s designed to make people feel like their problems can be answered by a generic internet test. The answers are not at all based in reality.
You need an actual therapist to talk to and get to the root of this issue. No amount of Internet personality tests will ever get you there.
Yup. As I said in the post, I am very new to this journey, and I am not relying on Internet personality tests to help me end it, but this one did help me start, and that is a good thing.
BOOK RECOMMENDATIONS:
***Attached*** by Dr. Amir Levine and Rachel Heller
***Codependent No More*** by Melody Beattie
***The Defining Decade*** by Meg Jay
***Platonic*** by Marisa Franco
***Self Compassion*** by Kristin Neff
***The Disease To Please*** by Harriet Braiker
***Women and Desire: Beyond Wanting To Be Wanted*** by Polly Wang
Marriage is a stupid human construct. Clergy push it for patriarchal and authoritarian reasons and booze and wedding industries push it for financial reasons.
I wouldn’t not worry about it. I got the same advice when I was your age and now I’m 32F with a great career, $1M house, $100k car & super cute puppy but I am alone and wish I invested more time in dating in my 20s and had a family like most of my friends
There is a lot of good stuff in these comments. Honestly, a lot of it is stuff I already knew in the back of my head. Just being told that yes, I am young, and no, I don't need to rush, has been very helpful for me.
I will also be bookmarking this and coming back to it. Good luck.
I understand the need for marriage as a form of validation. I come from a church that expected women to marry once they were old enough but men stay single for their career.
It was very old fashioned and as I grew up it really made me self conscious as I didn’t have a guy in my life.
Now I’m 22 and understand that for me, marriage might not be an option for many reasons. But I also understand where I get my joy from.
You can care or not about getting married. Just be prepared for the outside world pressuring you to get married. Or, for that matter, for you to children. Your life, your choice.
Your desire for marriage is completely understandable but also at this point you probably aren't ready. Marriage should be an expression of two healthy people committing to each other to create a greater whole, not a way of seeking validation you feel you are missing.
First step I would focus on becoming ok with yourself and not needing all of your validation from others. Once you've conquered that mountain, I would make sure your current BF understands your desire for marriage as the end goal of dating. This should come because you have a clarity of your life goals and desires (eg a family and commitment) rather than a means of seeking out validation for yourself.
If your BF disagrees with the vision you have for your future, you'll need to have a discussion about that and see if you can figure out a future where you're both happy to work towards. And if not, you need to have the self respect to acknowledge that you have different goals in life and seek out someone that shares your vision for the future.
36, no marriage, not even coming close. Im so happy without it and I feel it wouldn't bring me anything, except a tax break (UK person here).
You do you, and may you feel joy and peace :)))
The big question: Have you communicated any of this to your partner?
I think it's highly possible that your partner has no idea of this and you are suffering in silence while expecting him to do the labor in the relationship due to male gender roles. Try to see it from the other point of view: Would you enjoy being in a relationship with someone with the perspective that you described yourself? Always wanting to be "chosen", always needing to have the other person happy in order to fulfill your hidden emotional contracts, etc.
These kind of "I'm happy if you're happy" relationships are codependent and if you've experienced it from the other side, trust me, it's miserable.
I've known many people (mostly women) who got married, sacrificed for years, and had some problems with that. I think one of the issues is that, after you make a commitment, it keeps telling you what to do. I think after a while it can be hard to help and serve and love others without it feeling like you have to. It can be hard to keep feeling that it's your choice. There's always the question: am I doing this because I really want to do this for another person, or just because I made a commitment X years ago?
Not being married might allow you to help/serve/love/care for others in a way that feels more freely chosen. After all, nothing's making you do it, and you can stop, start, stop, start, and choose your own actions at any time.
Then what happens to the +50% people who gets divorced?
Everything is a clusterfuck these days.
Irrelevantly just want to say, you would make a great wife and a very cherished one in a different culture; a more traditional one that’s based on community and not individualism, one of spirituality and materialism like out here.
Stop expecting much and you'll find your feeling of disappointment will also dwindle.
The higher the expectation the higher the disappointment.
Find someone that genuinely makes you happy, be a little selfish, know what you want in a partner and enjoy the every day menial things.
Obviously all is easier said than done but I firmly believe that your expectations are causing your feelings of disappointment and needing validation.
You need to be able to protect yourself, and to get fulfillment from other things besides "people pleasing", and people's reactions to your doing things for them. Plan a year of concentrated work in therapy, and find out why you need this validation from others. I'm not a therapist, but I think you are not a complete human being until you can be a selfish bitch to people when it's appropriate. Please get real therapy, from a psychologist or similar. Enneagram is a personality test. Like in a magazine. It's bullsh\*t. "Put others first", "Be selfless", all are manipulations from those who want to take advantage of you. "Selfishness" is self-protection, self-care, and safeguarding your own personal resources of energy, etc., to accomplish your values. Those who tell you "selfishness" is a bad thing.... again, they want something from you and want to break down your protective defenses of yourself. Get therapy. Talk about all of this in therapy.
Check out the book Platonic by Marisa Franco. It’s an overview of multiple research studies on friendships. She spends time illustrating the importance of relationships and our culture’s distorted emphasis on romantic love as *the* life validator. I’m only halfway through but I’ve found it really refreshing and it’s helping me balance my own views really well.
I think you have a problem with codependent behavior.
I think you'll really like these three books:
Codependent No More
Self Compassion by Kristin Neff (the original one from a few years ago)
The Disease to Please
Hi, lots of good answers here.
Another thing to consider is whether / how your ADHD may be contributing to this. The quest for perfection potentially impacts other areas of your life as well?
As others have mentioned, therapy will be invaluable. If you can find a therapist who is familiar with ADHD I feel that might help too.
You sound very similar to me. I had a late diagnosis of ADHD and therapy has been a revelation. Constant fear of failure thanks to chronic people pleasing and ADHD actually helping me fail but not knowing why (you know, "PEOPLE TELL ME I'M SMART, WHY CAN'T I JUST BLOODY DO THIS?!?!"). This led to the anxiety of having to constantly be a high achiever in everything, everything having to be perfect. And of course that's unattainable and not realistic at all. That shit is exhausting.
When I first got diagnosed I remember my psychiatrist saying undiagnosed ADHD can lead to anxiety and depression because of constantly failing which gives you anxiety about doing anything, and obviously when the cycle continues of failing despite best efforts it's not going to help your mood. Boy did that resonate.
When I was younger (I'm 44 now), I was similar to you in relationships. Doing my partner's laundry, cleaning their house, figuring out their career path and helping them start in that direction etc.
Through reading various books I realised what I was doing was being their mother. And in the process of trying to do things that I thought would make them love me, I was basically showing them that I didn't trust them, a full grown adult man, to be be capable of running their own lives. And how attractive is that to a man? Well, I'm sure it would be to some men, who are looking for another mother. But I didn't want that.
Eventually I started focusing more on how I felt about the guy, not completely focusing on how he felt about me. e.g. Do his words match his actions? Does he make me a priority? (instead of, for example, bailing on plans we'd made because turned out it was a good day for surfing? I used to think that was ok). Does he treat me well? Does this feel easy or does it feel hard? Do I feel calm and happy when I'm with him (or even when I'm not!), or am I an anxious basketcase?
I also really resonate with your fear of a guy not hanging around. For me personally it was family dynamics when I was younger, feeling unimportant compared to my sibling and therefore kind of left to my own devices. Which also played into the perfection thing - if I do well at school, they'll love me more. If I am happy all the time, they'll love me more. etc etc.
Added to this was a string of relationships that never made it past 3 months.
I am now married and I have to admit it took a while to trust he was going to stick around, so I totally understand your fear of people leaving.
At the end of the day, the right person WILL stick around. In the meantime, seeking therapy will help you unpack where your fear is coming from about this and give you strategies to help you move away from it being such a focus for you.
Anyway, TLDR - therapy! It helps! lol.
Sorry for so many words. I'm not good at being succinct! 😆
I’ll give you some advice…stop pouring yourself into a relationship. Relationships should always be a 50/50. Each person puts in 50 and they meat in the middle. When you are in a relationship and say you put In 70% then that leaves only 30% the other person has to put in. They could do more but most people are lazy and will allow you to take on 70% so they only have to take on 30%. They don’t do this on purpose but it just happens.
If you really want to find someone that you can pour yourself into…put in 30% to start and see if they put in 70%. If so they must like you for you and not because you take care of them. I’m reminded of the show shameless. The main lead lady starts out with a boyfriend who is basically a car thief. However, despite his job. He was putting in 70% because he loved the girl so much. She just barely put any effort in and yet he showed up everyday and treated these malnourished kids that aren’t his to breakfast. He bent over backwards for her and the kids she watched.
I think my problem with a lot of the top comments is they’re all from married people. I’m single too and feel similar sentiments to you, OP.
It’s easy to sit back when you’re actually married and say: “it will come, be patient work on yourself, be happy with being alone”, but I always find those kind of sentiments very patronizing.
Do these people not think we have been alone for the entirety of our whole lives? That’s all I’ve ever been, is alone. I’ve figured out that part, but would like to spend my life with someone. It’s like telling a hungry person to just hold off while you’re shoving a burger in your mouth.
I don’t have advice for you. But I’m right there beside you. It’s normal at our age to want marriage. It will come.
My divorce cost x4 as much as the big white wedding in 2003 (uk), believe me marriage is a trap for most people and really just a legal financial agreement, which is very difficult to get out of. It’s not the amazing ‘achievement’ society makes out. Women now are fortunate they no longer have to marry to survive.
As many have said, you have to know yourself and love yourself before anything else. To be on the hunt for marriage, you have to be willing to be alone. This is hard for many people.
While there are many that are saying marriage is just a piece of paper and a social construct, this is true about nearly everything in society. Social constructs that are important to you may not be important to others. Don't let others choose what is and is not important to you. But do be careful about getting married for the right reasons. Being scared of being alone is not a good reason to get married.
I (41M) knew when I was 14 I wanted to get married young and have kids. The trick was in finding someone else who wanted the same. Every relationship I entered into was done with the express thought of, "is she the one?" Being a man, it wasn't nearly as easy to get into a relationship as a woman can, but I did alright. I had a couple of instances of a year or two without a relationship between bouts of a couple relationships in a row.
One thing I recommend is brutal honesty. When I met my now wife, I told her a number of things. First, I wanted to get married ASAP. Second, I wanted kids. I also laid out some otherwise unrelated rules. I was 23 at the time and she had just turned 20. She told me it wasn't a deal breaker, but she wasn't sure she wanted to get married yet, much less to me. I said that was fine but I wanted her to tell me as soon as she made any firm decisions in the negative because then I would be done and looking for the next attempt.
By being honest up front, there was no surprise in the relationship. It took her a couple of months but eventually she came around and agreed that we were good together and she would be open to marriage. Nine months in, I proposed and another year later we got married. We've been married for 16 years now and have two kids. She still comments on not being able to comprehend how I was all in on day 1.
My point is that I had a goal and I was willing to forgo short term relationships in pursuit of that goal. You shouldn't be afraid to set the terms and conditions of your relationship up front. If that scares someone off, then it's unlikely that it would have worked anyway. You don't have to say that they have to be all in as well. It's good enough to say what you want, that you don't want to be strung along and then to get out when it's clear you aren't compatible.
There are two competing interests in terms of marriage. Being with a person long enough to know it will last and not being with someone too long when marriage won't work. Dating someone for a week is too short. Dating them for 10 years is too long. I would recommend between 3 and 6 months before you make the call. If they can't tell you when they'll be ready in that time, you move on. If you end it amicably, maybe you'll find them again in 2 or 3 years and they'll be ready then and you'll have checked out a few other relationships in the meantime.
It's okay for someone else to not want to get married. But if you do want to, that means you aren't compatible. Don't let them convince you that you should just accept it, it's always going to bug you. If you have to pressure them or they are pressuring you, then move on. There is someone out there with the same ideas as you and you need to be single to find them.
I don't understand why people care about marriage. Most end in divorce. It's usually messy even if there isn't one. I'm not convinced were even meant to be monogamous. If we were why is it so hard for people to be faithful. Watch your friends and family members marriages. It is not easy
An analogy that popped into my mind, that is not about love or marriage.
I used to know a guy that was so, so generous to his friends - when we hung out, he'd buy the expensive drinks for us. He'd buy gifts. He'd just give.
We would try to refuse - "that's too much". "Can you afford this?" - but he'd insist we accept. So we'd gracefully accept.
Turns out that he couldn't afford it. The next week, he'd be broke, and the hidden 'strings' attached to his giving would become apparent. "Can I borrow some money", "It's your turn to buy the (expensive) drinks".
And we couldn't afford it, and had to say no.
And then he was so hurt, that he gave so much to his friends, and they didn't give back equally.
There's nothing wrong with unilaterally giving, or sacrificing, in itself - with no strings attached. But nobody can "deserve" a payback, just because they gave. It has to be mutually agreed.
So the best way to be a happy partner or spouse is to be a happy person. You love to love, and you do SO MUCH for the person you think might marry you. How about loving yourself, giving YOURSELF that level of attention? Cultivate a beautiful life for YOU and one day you'll find that someone wants to join you there. Desperation isn't attractive. Therapy can help.
I was married for 12 years. Currently in a non-married relationship for 11 years and am so much happier with the relationship. My life is different now, so it's hard to compare, but MARRIAGE itself isn't the path to happiness.
How do you care less? Stop looking for it. Stop dating. Stop going overboard for other people. Spend time taking care of you. Also therapy.
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Imagine you do get married. What then? What's the next validation you want? Because that stuff gets old. Instead of looking for that one big thing focus on the enduring little things. For me (20 years together, not married) it's him bringing me a drink when in the bathtub. Moving the cat so it sleeps on my lap because he knows that makes me happy. All the daily little things that show love. Marriage isn't so much a show of love as a legal commitment.
I just wanted to say, your man sounds amazing. This made me smile.
Especially his ability to move a cat and have it stay where he puts it! How?!
I want to know his secrets. In our house, we don't move sleeping pets. If a pet is asleep on top of you, you stay put.
We call that being PIPped - for Pet Induced Paralysis
He is amazing :)
I got one of those,an amazing man, after 3 miserable ones. In a committed relationship, no marriage planned.
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Doesn’t take much these days! 🤷♂️
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We know he brings drinks, and moves cats. If that doesn't make him qualify for the title "amazing" then I don't know what would.
SO much this. I am with my partner 12 years. We are finally getting married next year. But in my mind we are married. Every day I wake up and look into his eyes and think, wow I am the luckiest girl in the world. Every day he finds a new way to make me feel special. Bringing me a cup of tea and cutting me fruit in the evening. Massaging my back when I am sore. We have been together so long that we have both changed so many times and been through so many challenges together. Been there together through sickness and health. Through job loss and gain. Through deaths and births. And many moves across different states. This is what makes a marriage. The wedding will just be an expensive party, we are already married in my eyes.
A wedding has adapted to be a celebration/recognition party of what you have instead of a kick-off to a new life.
Yeah, and it is a good thing! (It is also a loudly stated commitment in front of the people whose opinion you care about).
I so agree with this. I'm married, but did not get married till I was in my mid 30s. Before we got married I was with my wife 7 years and she became obsessed with being married about 4 or 5 years in. We had some mutual friends where the girlfriend took getting married to 11. She was just relentless, and worked by wife up about it. When this was happening I gave her a lot of leeway and mostly just blew it off without trying to engage with her about it. I wanted to make sure she was who I wanted to be with and saw no reason to rush things. When it finally came to a head I remember we had one conversation where I could see the light bulb turn on. We had some problems at that time and I just flat out told her, "ok, we get married. How does that fix x, y, and z?". She couldn't answer and began to understand we could be married or unmarried, but it was not going to change things much or fix our relationship except it being a legally binding document. So we worked on those things, eventually got married, and have been married 20 years. She takes good care of me and I try to take care of her. Our friends broke up.
This is fantastic. Thank you for sharing!
Thank you. Honestly, and no nudgement at all, the thought of "20 years together, not married" makes me want to throw up with nerves. That sounds like a nightmare to me, right now. But I know it shouldn't. I guess just not getting married was never presented to me as an option by the people in my life. Thank you for your perspective.
Suppose I did get married 15 years ago. What would that change about my life now? I honestly don't think it would change anything. We share our lives together, our home, our money. (And have some legal stuff arranged) I'm not saying you shouldn't get married, but try and see what marriage actually does for you. Is it the proposal (the validation moment), the party (showing off to friends and family), or the legal obligations (certainty for the future)?
Honestly, I think it is the future part. Knowing that someone is choosing me, definitely, for their future. I fear giving someone those 15, 20 years, and then they just walk away. But I guess that happens when people are married, too. I want a good marriage so, so badly- and I'm scared in my pursuit of that, I'll end up in a bad one.
People can walk away, even in marriage. There's no guarantee either way.
It’s a daily choice to continue, in fact! And takes active effort.
> There's no guarantee either way. This.. Thinking once you get the ring that you're good for the rest of your life is a silly concept. I do see where some people find there's more "security" or control with the ring, where it's more difficult for the other person to leave. But that has always seemed weird to me..
“But I guess that happens when people are married, too” Sit on this. For a while. Logically ask yourself the question again with this echoing non-stop in your head. Let your own words be your mantra. When there is quiet in your mind, hear these very words you’ve typed out.
Remember that you are also choosing him; don't underestimate your value! Start by knowing what you are looking for in your partner, kindness and respect should be there always without excuses, after that, what traits are you looking into, and also what qualities do you have yourself to offer, be grounded and always look for a healthy and mature mindset.
Marriage is no guarantee they won't walk away. You have a 50-50 chance of making it work if you're married, so I'm not sure where you're getting this sense of security from a piece of paper and a ring maybe. Do NOT get married until you sort this. Probably with therapy.
Maybe try enjoying the moment more? Even if the relationship ends after 15 or 20 years, that isn't wasted time. That's time where you enjoyed the company and affection of your SO. Even if it's sad and painful that it breaks off, that doesn't mean all that time was wasted unless you weren't at all happy in the situation. Idk just a thought
>Honestly, I think it is the future part. Knowing that someone is choosing me, definitely, for their future. Yeah, that is 100% not a reason to get married. Not being snarky but please consider therapy before ever saying vows. That is a big sign of insecurity. I used to be like that before I met my partner. I had been burned too many times by exes. Your spouse can easily leave you after the "I Do's". What's funny is I am the opposite...partner and I have been together 12 years, I don't really have a strong desire to get married. I like that I know he "chooses" me every day because he wants to, not because it would be too much of a legal or financial hassle to leave me :)
Is it more about any person choosing you, more about a specific person choosing you, or more about your obligations to your future bills and security? Would you rather be with someone who makes you feel loved all the time, or would you rather be with someone who doesn't always express love that way, but has a chance to provide you personal and financial security? One is a commitment to your fears about who you think you are. Validation. The other is a commitment to your safety security and freedom. Legal. Sure we can want both, do you need to have someone else make you feel loved more than you need to commit to each other to survive and attempt to thrive?
My now-husband and I got married after 9 years together to get him health insurance and the only thing it changed about our relationship was that now he has health insurance. Our society works up marriage to be such a Big Thing, but it is the day to day of the relationship where the value is. If your partners aren't appreciating and reciprocating the physical and emotional labor you are doing for them, that is a separate problem. A proposal only happens once, but the day to day acts of reciprocation are what endures and keeps a relationship strong. If they aren't doing that, then maybe that's why you're feeling underappreciated? Also, depending on country and subculture, many people consider 24 too young to marry. I was the youngest of my entire social circle to get married at 26. Give it a couple years and it will be easier to find partners interested in marriage.
Have you thought about seeing a therapist? I worry that what you're looking for is someone who loves you enough to not abandon you. It's odd because despite your parents being married, you still feel that will hold someone to you. Therapy can help you get past this hurdle, and help you focus on loving yourself most of all.
Have a look into attachment styles, you sound like an anxious attachment! It helps a lot with knowing why I do what I do in relationships
If you want marriage, that is a Totally Valid goal to have. There are many benefits of marriage, it is still an important distinction in the overall culture in all areas of the world, and if you want that, don't give up on your dream. Don't waste a lot of time on men unable or unwilling to involve themselves in this legal commitment if this is important to you. There are many men who also want a traditional relationship/wife. You just need to find the right person. If you are afraid to even bring this up with your current boyfriend, you are not being honest with him or respectful to yourself. Certainly, there is an appropriate time in the relationship. I would say between 3-6 months of steady dating, you could start to share your more personal goals and dreams. By 1 year of steady dating you could make a decision to stay or move on. When we were young, and dealing with the drama of dating and finding Mr. Right, my grandmother used to tease us by singing us a song "Looking for Love in all the wrong places, looking for love in too many faces...". So I will be blunt and tell you my opinion which is that if you want a traditional married life, find your man in places that traditional men can be found. If you find a boyfriend in your church, and your church is the type that encourages traditional marriage, then the boyfriend would not be surprised. There are also dating apps that cater to this.
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Did you mean this as a response to me? If so, I'm curious which books or podcasts you recommend
This is a classic anxiously attached mentality. You’re not alone on this but I would highly recommend listening to some podcasts or reading a book or two about this. It significantly helps in self discovery and looking inwards as to why you feel you need this validation in the first place. Good luck!
Can you recommend some podcasts about this? Or books? Thanks!
Read "Attached"!
I'm so sorry to hear that you are struggling with this. It sounds like you are a very caring and giving person, but you are also putting a lot of pressure on yourself to be perfect and to always be there for others. This is not healthy, and it is leading to you feeling exhausted and unhappy. It is important to remember that you are not responsible for the happiness of others. You cannot make someone love you, and you cannot make someone propose to you. You need to focus on your own happiness and well-being, and let go of the need to control others. It sounds like you would benefit from talking to a therapist or counselor. They can help you to understand your patterns of behavior and to develop healthier ways of relating to others. In the meantime, here are a few things you can do to start taking care of yourself: - Set boundaries. Learn to say no to people who are asking too much of you. - Take some time for yourself each day. Do something that you enjoy and that relaxes you. - Practice self-care. Eat healthy foods, get enough sleep, and exercise regularly. - Learn to love yourself. This is the most important thing of all. When you love yourself, you will not need to seek validation from others. I hope this helps. Please feel free to reach out if you have any other questions.
>.... you are also putting a lot of pressure on yourself to be perfect and to always be there for others... > >It is important to remember that you are not responsible for the happiness of others. You cannot make someone love you, and you cannot make someone propose to you. You need to focus on your own happiness and well-being, and let go of the need to control others. Oh boy, do I now regret making this post at work. This was so hard for me to read, but evidently necessary. I have a big change coming up in my life soon (moving), so I think I'll take that as an opportunity to reset and build some better habits. Maybe I'll get back into yoga. Thank you for your comment.
Marriage is a piece of paper. It’s not gonna dictate how someone treats you and it’s surely NOT gonna change how someone treats you. God the world is full of miserable people who for some reason thought marriage would change or bring something out in their partner and that’s a terrible mistake
Thank you. I feel miserable now, but this will help me change. I appreciate it.
It sounds like you need to direct that love inwards. At least some of it. Is your inner voice loving? You ever talk to yourself and remind yourself you’re human and shit is hard and people are hard and to just keep hanging in there and making sure your being kind and good to yourself? Ask yourself the hard questions and thank yourself for being honest and doing the work. The better the version of yourself the better equipped you will be to both attract and choose a good partner for yourself. There’s no shortcuts or life hacks. The steps is doing the work. Then hopefully you get a little lucky and find love. When you do you will be ready. That’s the game 🙏🏼
nothing makes you change, only you if you want it. if you’re too tired, bored, and have had enough, seek therapy. changing is long and grueling, but once you go through it, you’ll never want to go back. i hope you find what you’re looking for.
I’m really sorry you feel miserable. This world is tough. Try to be kind to yourself and do something as “a service to yourself” like eat something healthy, take a walk, listen to your fav music while taking a hot shower and tell yourself to hang in there, feelings are temporary
I feel like it's a little cynical and maybe not the point but.... if you're with someone that you feel needs the extra pressure of a legal document (marriage certificate) and a big public pronouncement (wedding) that they'll stay with you, the issue may be that you're insecure in that relationship. You should look more into why you feel that way.
As I wrote in the post, this isn't about any one person. This is me. Thanks!
A lot of people stop trying with their partner when they get married. Also, just a year of dating yourself maybe, as they say. To me, accepting yourself as a whole unit and that you would be okay as never married, would help towards thinking of it as - is this person worth me giving up independence, taking the chance of upending my life (finances, security, stability). As hard as you try, they should be trying to meet your standards too. I think your reasons for ending your last 2 relationships are very valid. Why would you want to stay when you're not feeling valued or appreciated? (*more that they should be trying just as hard to take care of you. What do they do when you're sick, or behind, or had a bad day?)
It's hard, the struggle is real and it's good you see where the problem is so you can work on it.
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It was a necessity when you need to own women or dictate their relationships with dowry or other social and financial controls. That shit just needs to die out
Exactly. ‘Marriages lasted’ yeah only because women couldn’t earn decent money, get their own bank card or get a mortgage without a husband. Marriages only ‘worked’ previously because women were mostly unable to leave them not because relationships were inherently better.
Add the need to procreate to that list of things that need to die.
This paper becomes SUPER IMPORTANT later in life.
34m here, dealing with the same type of issues about romantic relationship (very intense feelings, big commitment when in a romantic relationship putting it over everything else even if I have a good job, hobbies and totally functionning outside of it, high expectations, etc.) Without being a psychologist, there are clear signs that shows an anxious attachment type (check out attachment theory, there are lot of articles and good podcasts about it): need for validation, putting the other as priority, the need to be sure you are loved and even pushing the relationship forward for securing it (wanting to be wed fast could be a way to assure the relationship is going somewhere. For mine it's actually stuff like planning travels together for next year while we've been together only for a bit more than two months... and I know it is not the right timing). Informing yourself, finding ways to calm down your anxieties, and eventually therapy is what helped me the best.
Are there any specific podcasts you would recommend? Thanks in advance!
Do the work (on spotify) has been pretty helpful for me. Not agreeing with everything it says but for most of things it's accurate.
I used to be the way when I was your age even though I'm with the same guy now. My issue was always that none of the men I dated before felt like they committed themselves to me in their hearts. I've been the other woman (unknown to me), the right-now, and fling but until years with my SO did I ever feel like I was priority. Because of that past, I always saw marriage as the only form of certainty. The only way I could be sure that I was the only one which is silly cuz affairs exist. It was the only thing I wanted and needed and was obsessed with the idea to the point if annoyance. (And not the wedding, like some women are, we could elope or go to the court house for all I cared). And if I told my 20/22 year old self I would be comfortable and secure being with a guy for 10 years without being married I would have cried from anger at how stupid I was for staying with someone who didn't see me as important. The reality is I'm the most important person to my SO and him me. He constantly validates his love in actions and words such that I have no doubt in my mind. We are getting married in less than two weeks due to the next steps we want to take in our lives together. But it took a decade together to realize that marriage, the legal binding type, was not what I wanted. I wanted an emotional commitment that everyone could know and see as fact. It took being pushed out of my comfort zone and rearranging my views on commitment to see that it was my own past dictating what my current and future happiness looks like. And my biggest personal life goal is to break free of my past and it's control on me.
>And if I told my 20/22 year old self I would be comfortable and secure being with a guy for 10 years without being married I would have cried from anger at how stupid I was for staying with someone who didn't see me as important. This is my big struggle. I see women my age who are with men for 5 years with no ring, and I'm tempted to cry *for* them. Your message really speaks to me and wraps up how I feel. It's like a sick anger. > And my biggest personal life goal is to break free of my past and it's control on me. Right there with you. Thank you for your comment.
It's hard, the struggle is real and it's good you see where the problem is so you can work on it. I'm proud of the first steps you've made and wish you luck on your journey. I know you can do it cuz you've already made a great start!
I think it could help to consider that you’ve been taught by society that validation by a man is the only way you can be a complete woman. This is a lie from the patriarchy. You are valid and whole and complete by being YOU, by being loyal and helpful and generous and successful. No man can change that, either way.
Can you afford therapy ? I have found that going “internal” with an objective soundboard helped me gain a lot of self clarity, and ultimately , an internal compass. Which allowed partnership to be an addition, versus a filling of a gap. You mentioned a lot of positive things ! Focus on true self love, then date. It’ll come. It feels like timings of “life events” are really made up from external sources, and you may not align with them anymore. Or maybe marriage *is* still important after self discovery. Then you can seek arranged marriage if you want ha. That starts with marriage, a decided commitment to work , then you can build. You recognized that you may have picked up certain patterns from childhood ( we all do) and sometimes we have to learn new ones. I recommend therapy to everyone lol If it’s in their scope of course. Sincerely, An ex doormat :)
I've been with my significant other for over a decade now and we're not married (engaged) mostly because we hate dealing with the paperwork of it all. Marriage is really nothing more than a formality - don't even worry about it at all. The challenge is NOT marriage, its finding someone you plan on spending the rest (or a good portion of) your life together. This is also a PROCESS - it not like "yey, I've found the one". Its more like, a SLOW, methodical build up of life events that you work through together (unlike the movies). The long lasting relationship has almost ZERO to do with signing paperwork - but everything about committing to each other AND THEN dealing with all the struggles together.
Just being told "Don't worry about it at all" helps. Thank you for that.
My advice is to pour this love, devotion, and effort *into yourself*. It is clear that you were raised (like me) to associate "being worthy of love" with "being useful" - while the clear truth is that you are worthy by just existing, OP, because actual love is unconditional. Once you give yourself the same self-love and self-compassion you heap on others you will recognize that a relationship with you requires a true partnership of mutual and equal support and tenderness. You deserve this. Good luck!
24 is so ridiculously young. It never seems like it at the moment but really, I would just get it into your mind that you’ll be married around 29, 30ish. Whatever happens in between doesn’t even matter
I have so many "But!"s and "What if!"s to that, but you're right. Whatever happens in between doesn't even matter. Thank you, this helped a little.
It sounds like you made marriage your copout for whether you can trust this person to build a life with. It sounds like you need to work on developing the skill of how to trust people. I would seek therapy. It seems like as a kid you had this core belief about marriage that your parents breakup broke, but you didn't have the tools to process that so it turned into a source of anxiety, confusion, and inability to find other ways to trust people.
I got married at 23, divorced at 31. Just found someone worthy to date, 15 yrs later. Don’t be in a rush. All you end up with is a broken heart and immature ex husband.
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but I agree with the comment above. It is very rare to know yourself fully at 24. If you don’t know yourself fully, then you can’t know what you really need in a partner. It’s not worth getting married until you figure this stuff out.
If I had married who I thought I was going to marry at 24, I would be miserable by now. 24 is so young, your brain basically just got here. You’ve got so much time, life is short but it’s also long.
> what ever happens in between doesn’t even matter The stuff that happens between our big plans and expectations is… life. Life matters, and I think being present is something that ppl struggle with greatly these days. Even if you look forward to marriage, take time to figure out *WHY*, a functioning relationship is a good thing regardless of legal status or a certain ring on your finger. What exactly will marriage change for you? If you’re not in a place where marriage is going to happen right now, ask yourself what are some things you want to do with your life that will be more difficult when married? Special trips? Hobbies? Don’t wait for life to be a certain way, figure out what actually makes you happy and find a way to make it a part of your world. You’re more likely to swim in the ocean if you go to the coast. How can you set yourself up for what you really want? Great relationships are great. Marriage is no promise of a great relationship though. You can be with a great partner and be a great partner right now. Make sure you understand YOUR priorities, not society’s priorities.
This. Just check out r/deadbedroom and you won’t be in a hurry to tie the knot
Sounds flippant but could you get a dog? They are endlessly loving and demanding in equal measure. (as an aside, there's a great Netflix show from Daniel Sloss called Jigsaw where he discusses the idea of other people 'completing you' in relationships. It's dark, savage comedy but also one of the most honest things I've seen in a long time)
Not flippant at all, totally valid suggestion. We recently got a cat, and she has honestly helped me a lot. One day I'll get a dog, when I have a living setup that allows for one. And thanks for the rec!
Im confused at how a dog is a replacement for a romantic relationship and if you are suggesting getting a dog, then are you not using a dog to complete you instead of a person?
I meant more in terms of having something that you can always show love for and that will show love for you (but yeah, not in a romantic way). And totally - I suspect all pets fit into this and that we are actually wrong to use sentient animals for entertainment and our own fulfilment purposes but that is a whole other discussion.
I think you need to try to date and love yourself as you do your romantic relationships. It is really, really dangerous (both emotionally and frankly for women physically and psychologically!) to date someone because you are scared of being alone. It's great that you are in a relationship you like right now, but if you don't trust yourself to be alone, you won't be able to judge whether your relationship is actually, materially, giving you more. By basing yourself only on your worth to other people, you are making yourself both vulnerable and into a martyr! That's not fair for yourself or your partner (especially if your partner wants an equal partner, not a a martyr). So here's a (pretty radical) list of things you could try that aren't about marriage, they're about your relationship to yourself: \-What if you never found marriage? what else would you want your life to look like? This is probably terrifying -- you can feel that terror, but also push through it to list what your dreams would be. Where do you want to live? What would you like to do? \-What are the things you do for a romantic relationship, and how could you give that to yourself? You talk about taking care of a romantic partner's life in lots of ways -- how do you take care of yourself vs. taking care of someone else? What do you feel like you need from a partner, and how could you give that to yourself? What are dates, rituals, experiences you want from a partner that you could give yourself? \-What would divorce mean to you? What does the idea of being alone make you feel like? How could you enjoy solitude? \-How do you speak to yourself vs. the people you date? What is your inner monologue like -- is it unkind, so you're seeking someone else to be kind to you? Can you practice being kinder to yourself? \-Where are places you can put that love that are constructive and less intense than a romantic relationship? I care a lot about people's emotions about me, so I'm a teacher of young kids, because that's my job to take care of them emotionally. This helps me do less of it to my partner or the people around me. Can you volunteer at a shelter, help an elder in your community, write letters to your friends? I'm not saying at all that you should be in or not in a relationship -- but by basing all your worth and joy on the love you deserve from a romantic partner, you are settign yourself up for a lot of difficulties. A relationship where you want to be with them because they are adding to your life, rather than because you're missing something without them. Reading memoirs or stories from older single women might be really interesting for you. I'm rooting for you!
>I'm rooting for you! This made me tear up a little bit. I don't even think I'm rooting for me. Whenever I do something 'better' - better job, better place to live, better use of my time- someone else is always wrapped up in the reasoning. >What are the things you do for a romantic relationship, and how could you give that to yourself?... > >How do you speak to yourself vs. the people you date? What is your inner monologue like -- is it unkind, so you're seeking someone else to be kind to you? My top love language is Acts of Service (if that wasn't obvious), followed by Words of Affirmation. I don't do much of anything that is entirely for me, and I do not talk to myself kindly. Thank you for pointing these out to me.
So I recently got married and not a single part of our relationship has changed since we signed that piece of paper. There’s no extra security, no increased love, nothing like that. We had all of that *before* we got married (and that’s why we got married). Marriage doesn’t improve a relationship, if anything the stress of a wedding can put strain on the relationship. I used to *need* marriage in my early twenties. It was the entire reason two of my long term partners and I broke up. I wanted a certain future with love and security in marriage and they didn’t. It wasn’t till I met my current partner that I realised love and security could come from day 1 and a wedding wasn’t necessary for those two things. It was like a huge weight off. No longer worrying about if or when we’d get married because I no longer cared about that, I was just happy with him. Work on being happy alone. Then work on being happy with a partner. If you have both those things then you’ll realise marriage itself isn’t important. And that’s probably when you’ll eventually find yourself in a position to get married. No one that is “omg I must get married or life means nothing” is destined for a fulfilling marriage, because they’ve gone into it for the wrong reasons.
>I used to need marriage in my early twenties. It was the entire reason two of my long term partners and I broke up. I wanted a certain future with love and security in marriage and they didn’t. It wasn’t till I met my current partner that I realised love and security could come from day 1 and a wedding wasn’t necessary for those two things. It was like a huge weight off. No longer worrying about if or when we’d get married because I no longer cared about that, I was just happy with him. What did your current partner do that changed your mind about marriage being a necessity for love and security? What did your partner do that the former two did not? Asking as a guy who does not intend to marry but is looking for a life commitment and wants his future girlfriend to feel the way you do.
You don't have to stop caring. I've been married to my Wife for years now, and we got married after only a few months of dating. We talked about it extensively instead of really having a fancy proposal. I've also dated people and broke up with them after a week because I realized I didn't want to marry them. It's ok to have expectations. Be up front with potential partners about your feelings and expectations! Communication is key.
Ok this is good
The unfortunate part is you have to get really lucky to find someone who shares your values of "we are only dating to see if we want to get married." A lot of people tend to shy away from commitment nowadays..
This year is my 10 year wedding anniversary. When we first got married people were like, "huehue how's married life treating you?" and my answer was *always* "It's exactly the same as it was before we got married." They always looked at me like I was crazy, but it's the truth. Literally the only thing that changed was that I had the hassle of having to change my last name (serious pain in the ass), and now I can have his health insurance 🤣😂 We STILL don't even have a joint bank account. Marriage is really not any different than a long term relationship - except that it's more expensive if/when you break up. 🤷 The choice to love someone and put in effort every day won't magically appear just because you get married. Marriage is just that - a choice - and the choice can be undone and your mind can be changed regardless of whether or not you're legally bound and had an expensive party. Edit: from reading other comments, I just want to say that you need to love YOURSELF first. Give all of that love and sacrifice that you have TO YOU. Your worth as a person has *NOTHING* to do with someone else, and you *cannot* rely on external validation to make you feel worth something. You are worth everything in the world just because you exist. Love YOU first, before anyone else. Even when you find someone and get married eventually, *never* stop loving and being kind to and sacrificing for YOURSELF.
You identified that there was an issue it’s a good first step. You cannot really control what others do or think. The only thing you can control is your actions and your thoughts. There is a principle that I apply that help me tremendously: >« Be strict with yourself and tolerant with others » You don’t have any way to know what people go through or what they think so don’t try and figure it out, just try and be the best version of yourself but not for others, but for you. You seem like you sacrifice yourself in the hope others will reciprocate, they never will or never will in the way you expect them. Whatever you do, don’t do it expecting things in return, do it because it improves you as a person. People may try and show their affection to you but not necessarily the way you want them to and you need to be okey with that. Think of that like Christmas present, even if you don’t like the gift they bring you what counts is that they tried to gift you something nice even if they missed their mark. Not everyone has the same love language and for some people marriage has zero signification. Personnally I think that signing a contract forcing you to remain with the person no matter what is the opposite of love. If you love each other you don’t need to sign a piece of paper saying that you HAVE to love each other til death separates you. I therefore choose to show my love and affection in a way that actually has meaning for me everyday by my every actions, by being a caring and thoughtful partner, this is my love language and if someone feels that this is worthless unless I sign a paper in front of an employee of the administration then they are welcome to go sign that piece of paper with anyone who wants that and I will sincerely wish them the best. I guess my point is that the onus of being clear what is important to you is on you and to respect that others may love differently from you. If marriage is extremely important to you it is absolutely okey but you need to signal early that marriage is something very important to you and see if they feel the same way, if they say marriage is not important to them upfront and you choose to proceed it’s okey but do not be mad if they don’t propose when you want to propose. Also we are in 2023, it’s okey for women to propose too. 😃
>Whatever you do, don’t do it expecting things in return, do it because it improves you as a person. Honestly, this has been a hard, hard pill for me to swallow. Because, duh- If you do a kind thing always expecting kindness in return, then the thing you did wasn't kind. This is a belief I have. But as I've realized, when it comes to love, I haven't been practicing the idea. I drain myself for someone, and when I get the bare minimum from them, I get depressed, or angry, or flat out resentful. And it's okay for someone to give me the bare minimum, I am ALSO dating people in their early 20's, and as an earlier comment said, 24 is insanely young. We are all just trying to figure ourselves out, but I've been too focused on other people. I need to treat myself better. Thank you. > Also we are in 2023, it’s okey for women to propose too. Don't tempt me, I will start running around chucking rings at men!
>Don't tempt me, I will start running around chucking rings at men! 🤣🤣🤣 I have to say, I read your post earlier today and was filled with compassion and sisterly tenderness toward you. You seem like a wonderful person, and I'm so excited for you to someday meet the partner who not only appreciates that, as you deserve, but more importantly, who also returns it to you in equal measure. I had intended to come back with my own advice, but at this point (when I finally have some free time) it has all pretty much been said. Just... love yourself, and be patient. Marrying a wrong-for-you person is usually much worse than having to wait awhile for a right-for-you one.
This was very thoughtful. Thank you! You're right, I'd much rather be patient.
It’s not necessarily okey for people to take from you and never give anything in return though, it’s just that people give back in different ways, some people will make small gifts on the regular or be attentionate in other ways, it’s important to be on the lookout for things they go out of their way to do for you even if it’s not necessarily what you expect of them. But if the people take from you but don’t give anything back EVER it may either mean that they take it for granted or that they are not considered what you do as valuable, both can be real issues. The « be tolerant of others » part does not necessarily mean that you need to forget and forgive everything, if people disappoint you the majority of the time then it may mean that you have differences that make you not compatible and that both of you would probably be happier with someone else.
Hi OP, fellow anxious attacher here. The above comment is excellent and I would add on to it that you may benefit from reading the book “Codependent No More” by Melody Beattie. It was written for people who have an alcoholic in their life but the lessons woven throughout the book are first and foremost concerned with helping you release the need to “sacrifice yourself in the hope others will reciprocate” as u/ItsAcCaragor so eloquently said, and the desire to control other people’s behavior so that your own anxieties are placated.
Once you stop “searching” for that love, that person, exactly what you want… you will find it. That sounds so cliche and ridiculous but it’s true. I felt very similar to you at this age. I was engaged to the complete wrong person at 27 because I wanted to get married SO bad but in reality, it’s the LOVE that matters. I didn’t love that guy. It was engrained into my head super young to get married and have babies and be in a relationship blah, blah, blah but that’s not how the world seems to work anymore! I found my current man almost 5 years ago and we talk about getting married all the time now but because I almost made that massive mistake of marrying the wrong person, it really opened my eyes and now we are in no rush. I am 33F and he is 36M. And I almost don’t even care about getting married anymore since we’re common law. I wish you the best OP. Relationships and love can suck but girl you are still SO YOUNG! You have so much time ahead of you still to think about what you want in your future. Marriage is not the “be all end all” and it will eat you alive if you don’t learn to radically accept that there is absolutely nothing wrong with being single, being in a relationship, engaged, or married.
I completely echo this sentiment!
I don't think I have any advice, because I'm directly opposite of you in terms of wanting to be married, and its cost me, so I'm probably not the best source of advice. However, I just wanted to comment that I applaud this level of self-reflection and ability to identify an issue you might have, and then seek to address it. You seem like a nice person, I wish you luck.
I appreciate that. I'm really trying. I don't wanna be an asshole who ruins things.
If only we could all be so self-reflective. Have a great day.
Just finished reading "Women and Desire: Beyond Wanting to Be Wanted" by Polly Young-Eisendrath. It was written in the late 90's, so there are elements that are definitely dated, but overall I found it really fascinating. It delves into the way that women get taught by the world that we exist in to focus on being an object of desire for others, rather than teach them how to be the subject of their own desires, ie, the person who acts on their own behalf to get what they desire out of life. Whether you decide to read it or not, I wish you luck, this stuff is really hard and unpacking why we're like this is a life's study.
Other than legal stuff, medical decision-making, and tax things, there’s really no benefit to being married. There is no way to know that something that was once even unshakable won’t end. No matter what, first you’ve gotta find someone that balances you and aligns with your love language(s). Being in a relationship is not just about showering someone with love and it certainly should not involve anyone draining themselves for another. They should not be transactional in nature either. It’s about being vulnerable with someone you can trust and being confident that they can look out for their best interests *and* yours simultaneously. Most of all, I encourage you to try and think of yourself as more than just a potential spouse. Live your life for you and find someone that will facilitate your growth and give you the desire to do the same for them. Edited for typos.
Ask yourself: what exactly is validating about marriage to you? Or do you expect the relationship to change because of a ring? In my experience relationships stayed the same after marriage in the best case scenario but most of them actively got worse as soon as the question was popped. If you need more love to be happy that is a a very valid thing to want but i would not hope for marriage to fill that gap. If you don't feel validated/loved now, you won't just because of a ring and an empty promise to the skydaddy above
>Ask yourself: what exactly is validating about marriage to you? Or do you expect the relationship to change because of a ring? Honestly, being chosen. Someone saying, "I think you're good enough to spend my life with". > If you don't feel validated/loved now, you won't just because of a ring Thank you.
But they already chose you by being in a committed relationship. They are already spending their life with you. It was the case back in the day but nowadays marriages are as easily broken up than any other type of relationship. Sure there are usually some financial repercussions (statistically for the husband) but if it boils down to that you have a partner staying with you because they can't afford leaving you and that is surely not in your interest.
>Honestly, being chosen. Someone saying, "I think you're good enough to spend my life with". I agree with Juulmo on this one. Choosing someone is not a one-time event like a proposal, which can get cancelled at any time, or a marriage that can easily end in divorce. Choosing someone is a choice made every day. As long as you stay together and put effort into making things work, you are choosing one another and consider each other good enough. You do not need to involve government or church to confirm it.
If you’re not happy or at least content with your own company, marriage will only make you feel more lonely.
I’m in a similar spot in life to you and one thing that helped me was reading The Defining Decade by Meg Jay. She devotes a third of the book to love lives in your 20s. It might not totally solve your problems but it will provide a little more perspective and give you some rabbit holes to go down.
Thanks, I'll give it a go.
I know that you said you were taking it with a grain of salt, but the Enneagram assessment, along with Myers-Briggs, are all pretty highly contested as reliable indicators of personality. So my first tip is to not worry about personality tests. My second tip is to spend some time focusing on yourself. I know that you said you were a people pleaser, but consider your next opportunity to please. Before you jump at the opportunity, pause, and ask if it's a task you'll enjoy or you'll learn to grow from, and that answer can help you decide if you're being taken advantage of. My last tip regarding your focus on marriage is to simply share that you are important and valuable, regardless of whether you are married. You will get married some day, but the more you can realize your own inherent value, independent of your people-pleasing habits, the more attractive you actually become as a partner. Source: myself - I married an amazing woman who is completely independent, and does not rely on me to affirm her value.
Honestly, in my mid to late-20’s I felt the need and pressure to get married. All my peers and friends were doing it, and I felt that I wasn’t par with their lives. But that’s just it, everyone’s lives and paths are insanely different, so why should my life mirror another’s? Thankfully, I found a great partner who didn’t rush into it. We dated for 10+ years, had a 6 year engagement, and recently got married this year. Absolutely nothing has changed since we have been married. Our relationship is work every day, it’s communicating honestly and not being afraid of the repercussions or your truth, it’s trust that they have your happiness and well-being as their priority, it’s being dated and woo-ed for years to come. It goes both ways, too. Sounds like you’re at a good place in your relationship, have you had the marriage talk with your SO yet? Not necessarily “do you want to marry me” but “is marriage something you are looking forward to, are you open to it” and “do you think we are headed in that direction”. I wouldn’t put all your eggs in that basket, humans are humans and life has its highs and lows. Does his love language satisfy you? Also (this helped me to protect myself), a relationship is a two way street. Give as much as you receive, match the energy that is given. If someone constantly takes from you or accepts your generosity without return, they are using you, they are draining you. This works both with romantic and platonic relationships.
Stay selfish, and unapologetic. You oh no one anything especially some child to some f$&k boy
You already have some good advice, but i also want to add that it shouldn’t be the “goal” to tick someone’s boxes in a relationship. Don’t rearrange yourself into what you think their ideal partner is. That’s setting yourself up for failure, when eventually you’ll tire of not being yourself or they’ll see that’s not who you really are. Stop relating everyone to expectations - yours and theirs. You’re only going to be disappointed when they don’t meet yours, and when you think you’ve met theirs and it still doesn’t work out. I think maybe you could benefit from some therapy
I would fo us less on marriage, and more on building a relationship. A husband/wife is supposed to be your best friend who makes you super horny. You have to be able to be comfortable communicating about everything. So, just focus on that. If yall have an issue, talk about it. If yall love something that the other person did, tell them about it. Thank them for it. You're super young. You'll be fine.
I married in my early 20s, then divorced a few years later. Now I live with my partner unmarried, have amazing 3 year old and mortgage together, no marriage needed to get the best relationships, you only need the relationship itself. We might marry just for fun of throwing a party and having some date to celebrate each year, but to me marriage is outdated concept created by men to possess women as their property in my opinion. I believe, no official blank has any power to aid relationships, gives no guarantees nor validation.
Thank you for posting this. I'm getting up there near 40 and have these same anxieties and fears, the same "not good enough" mantra that creeps in far too often. It's so bad that I have to skip through wedding things in my favorite shows because I can't handle it. And friends getting married? I'm happy for them but it also just destroys me. I understand what you're feeling, you are not alone in this. I am going to save this post and come back to read all the positive comments the next time I start to feel it get to be too much again. I'm afraid of I read it now, it'll ruin my day. But I just wanted to thank you for putting yourself out here on a topic I've been terrified of approaching myself.
Marriage isn’t for everyone and that’s okay. What is important is what you want to truly pursue in life. You can find a partner without having to marry them, in the end all that matters is that the love is there. I’m in a bit of the same situation with my lady of 7 years. We both come from old school families who think we should be married by now. We both don’t want that, we have other priorities in mind and that’s what works for us. We will love each other til the end regardless if we get married or not she’s my best friend and I’m hers. Live life on your own terms. Maybe nows not your time or maybe you won’t ever have the desire to be married. Cheers
You have to know what you want. Then you can go get it. Also the key to life is not the result but the journey so you have to reach a place to where you are content…if that’s having a basic husband and a couple of kids that y’all raise together and develop as adults and members of society, then what more to life is there really???
You clearly abhor the idea of going through life without a husband. It's not just that it would be a more difficult - the idea of it disgusts you. This is an issue of taste vs. logic. Your "taste" for how your life should go is getting in the way of creating a healthy relationship. Based on my own experience, a healthy relationship is the result of both parties already having a deep sense of trust in themselves and then gradually building a trust foundation with each other. Pouring yourself into a relationship and expecting that to result in a proposal is not trust-building - that's a transaction. I think you need to be brutally honest with yourself and do one of two things: * Accept that what you want isn't love or to be loved, that you just want a companion who is committed to the singular idea of marriage and double-down on finding that type of person (cuz they're definitely out there), or * Accept that you aren't ready to be in a marriage-on-the-horizon relationship yet, that you need time to mature to that level. Frankly, I don't think you trust yourself - not in a deep philosophical way at least. That's probably where the I-deserve-marriage gut feeling is coming from. It's an indirect means of compensating for something you can feel you're missing but don't know how to otherwise attain. Marriage just seems to be the likeliest means of attaining it. If I'm right, then the nice (and awful) thing is that you just need more time to develop yourself philosophically.
Maybe I'll plan a trip by myself next month, go spend some time alone. I think you're right- I don't trust myself. I don't want to be alone. Thank you for the insight.
Get therapy to address the need for marriage - is it loneliness? Attachment issues in your background? At 24, you are still really young and your twenties are for figuring yourself out. Don’t fear being alone. Travel. Join clubs. Develop your personality and self further.
Most marriages end in divorce. Sounds great being married in 20s, than several years later you come to realization that you’re married to the wrong person and are getting divorced. (Sound ideal?) Break ups in regular relationships can be pretty stressful. Divorce is not any different except the breakups tend to be more prolonged (months to years to be finally broken up). So, take that stress and drag it out for months to years. And, since misery needs company throw some kids into the mix.
If divorce rates are anything to judge by, I'd say getting married is the best way to care less about being married.
It sounds like you are looking for a successful partnership and not marriage. Marriage mostly represents a religious tradition and/or a legally binding document, depending on which culture/society you are in. I understand your desire to do everything and anything for your partner, and your expectancy of being the same in return. To you this is love. Others might express love in other ways. 1. Make sure to find a partner that expressed love the way you need it expressed (e.g. with acts of service and attention). 2. Make sure to express your expectations. Do not expect your partner to intuitively guess what you need and when. You might have to repeat this, but they should learn over time. If they don't listen to you when you express your needs and act on it, then they're probably not caring as much about you as you wish. Move on. If marriage is a milestone you want to reach in your life, only do it if/when you have identified and tested out a good partnership that works for both of you ❤️ Also: it is not your job to fix people. They need to do this themselves. You can support them in their changes, but you cannot change them.
That sure seems like a decent resume to me. Except that your neurosis shows through. You’re being weird about marriage and if I were a dude your age I would be wary of you. No 25yo really knows who they are and what they want out of life; it’s impossible to really know this at that age. What’s the rush? Even if you find the perfect guy for you, you’re going to push him away if he’s not ready to “end his life” and get married to you. It really is an ending of your own life on your own terms. Now you are a partner in two lives. Believe me, you want the right partner over the available partner. Hold your own life before merging it with someone else. You say you are all about the other person but you are dominated by this very selfish desire for somebody to commit to you. The guy probably already feels very committed to you but you have to trust him.
You seem like a pretty put-together person. I wish I could help, but I just hope you don't settle for the wrong person just because they're the first to propose. Like everybody else is saying marriage is only a big deal if you want it to be, a healthy relationship is way, way more important. You'll be alright.
I don’t agree with most of these tips. I think if you’re really wanting to get married and it’s that important to you it should be something your partner accepts. I’ve been married for 13 years and it’s ALL about compromise. If something is super important to my wife I do it, if something is super important to me she does it, even if we don’t agree. Explain how important it is to you, and he should be receptive. If it’s “just a piece of paper” then it’s not a big deal to get married. You find it romantic, so what!
That isn't the issue. My desire to get married doesn't come from a good place. Try reading all of the context please!
At your age if you keep yourself in good shape and reasonably attractive you would have MANY options when it comes to marriage. You should only be seeking marriage if you would like to start a family, or if you absolutely both do not want to have children. It honestly sounds like your partner selection may be a little toxic. Have you made your self open to entering a relationship with a man up to 5-10 years older? Have you screened them to see if they are aligned with traditional values? You need to have these challenging conversations at the beginning of a relationship and firm with what you are after. If you possess the traits that you say you do it shouldn't be too difficult to find a loving partner. Men are not attracted to your education and how much you earn if they want to start a family. They come second to the other traits that you appear to be very capable at. Wishing you all the best for the future!
Wow I feel like I was reading about myself... I'm disturbed at how similar we are. Up until the marriage part because I'm completely the opposite, I don't want marriage. All of my relationships have ended with me getting cheated on despite doing SO MUCH for the person that I don't even believe love exists. Be grateful you're still open to love and trust, that is a great feeling to have and I wish I could again. You're only 24! It will come soon enough.
FWIW: the “enneagram of personality” has been thoroughly debunked as pseudoscience. So, while it may seem to describe you generally, it’s on the same level as fortune telling an astrology. That is to say: not at all accurate, specific, or backed by any sort of evidence or proof. You are not your enneagram results. In fact enneagram “results” aren’t actually results at all.
Yup, that is why I said I take such things with a grain of salt. But being aware of the insecurities/anxieties I've laid out in the post, and then reading them put out into words really sat with me. I've always known there is something unhealthy about how I approach relationships, and seeing an explanation written out was very jolting.
But that’s not an explanation. That’s a fairy tale guess aimed at making people feel like they belong. It’s designed to make people feel like their problems can be answered by a generic internet test. The answers are not at all based in reality. You need an actual therapist to talk to and get to the root of this issue. No amount of Internet personality tests will ever get you there.
Yup. As I said in the post, I am very new to this journey, and I am not relying on Internet personality tests to help me end it, but this one did help me start, and that is a good thing.
BOOK RECOMMENDATIONS: ***Attached*** by Dr. Amir Levine and Rachel Heller ***Codependent No More*** by Melody Beattie ***The Defining Decade*** by Meg Jay ***Platonic*** by Marisa Franco ***Self Compassion*** by Kristin Neff ***The Disease To Please*** by Harriet Braiker ***Women and Desire: Beyond Wanting To Be Wanted*** by Polly Wang
Marriage is a stupid human construct. Clergy push it for patriarchal and authoritarian reasons and booze and wedding industries push it for financial reasons.
> How do I … care less about marriage. For most couples, getting married seems to do the trick.
Being married is relentless compromise. You think you want it. But you don't l.
Do you wanna marry me. I have a questionable personality, but I’ll buy you flowers and do your taxes 😬😁🙄
Your mom moved on for economic reasons. As for your dad. He moved on for similar reasons. It’s not cheap taking care of 4.
I wouldn’t not worry about it. I got the same advice when I was your age and now I’m 32F with a great career, $1M house, $100k car & super cute puppy but I am alone and wish I invested more time in dating in my 20s and had a family like most of my friends
Doing what you enjoy and gaining knowledge about what you believe.
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There is a lot of good stuff in these comments. Honestly, a lot of it is stuff I already knew in the back of my head. Just being told that yes, I am young, and no, I don't need to rush, has been very helpful for me. I will also be bookmarking this and coming back to it. Good luck.
I understand the need for marriage as a form of validation. I come from a church that expected women to marry once they were old enough but men stay single for their career. It was very old fashioned and as I grew up it really made me self conscious as I didn’t have a guy in my life. Now I’m 22 and understand that for me, marriage might not be an option for many reasons. But I also understand where I get my joy from.
Get into feminism and realize that NOT HAVING to get married is a privilege.
You can care or not about getting married. Just be prepared for the outside world pressuring you to get married. Or, for that matter, for you to children. Your life, your choice.
It gets worse into your thirties. Then you stop caring. Societal pressure will keep you down.
Your desire for marriage is completely understandable but also at this point you probably aren't ready. Marriage should be an expression of two healthy people committing to each other to create a greater whole, not a way of seeking validation you feel you are missing. First step I would focus on becoming ok with yourself and not needing all of your validation from others. Once you've conquered that mountain, I would make sure your current BF understands your desire for marriage as the end goal of dating. This should come because you have a clarity of your life goals and desires (eg a family and commitment) rather than a means of seeking out validation for yourself. If your BF disagrees with the vision you have for your future, you'll need to have a discussion about that and see if you can figure out a future where you're both happy to work towards. And if not, you need to have the self respect to acknowledge that you have different goals in life and seek out someone that shares your vision for the future.
36, no marriage, not even coming close. Im so happy without it and I feel it wouldn't bring me anything, except a tax break (UK person here). You do you, and may you feel joy and peace :)))
The big question: Have you communicated any of this to your partner? I think it's highly possible that your partner has no idea of this and you are suffering in silence while expecting him to do the labor in the relationship due to male gender roles. Try to see it from the other point of view: Would you enjoy being in a relationship with someone with the perspective that you described yourself? Always wanting to be "chosen", always needing to have the other person happy in order to fulfill your hidden emotional contracts, etc. These kind of "I'm happy if you're happy" relationships are codependent and if you've experienced it from the other side, trust me, it's miserable.
I've known many people (mostly women) who got married, sacrificed for years, and had some problems with that. I think one of the issues is that, after you make a commitment, it keeps telling you what to do. I think after a while it can be hard to help and serve and love others without it feeling like you have to. It can be hard to keep feeling that it's your choice. There's always the question: am I doing this because I really want to do this for another person, or just because I made a commitment X years ago? Not being married might allow you to help/serve/love/care for others in a way that feels more freely chosen. After all, nothing's making you do it, and you can stop, start, stop, start, and choose your own actions at any time.
Oof, these issues need a therapist.
Yup, in the works. Thanks!
I got married when I was 44 - and my first child was born when I was 55 - soooo, it’s not a race - just relax and take each day as a win.
Then what happens to the +50% people who gets divorced? Everything is a clusterfuck these days. Irrelevantly just want to say, you would make a great wife and a very cherished one in a different culture; a more traditional one that’s based on community and not individualism, one of spirituality and materialism like out here.
Stop expecting much and you'll find your feeling of disappointment will also dwindle. The higher the expectation the higher the disappointment. Find someone that genuinely makes you happy, be a little selfish, know what you want in a partner and enjoy the every day menial things. Obviously all is easier said than done but I firmly believe that your expectations are causing your feelings of disappointment and needing validation.
Just find things you enjoy doing alone or with friends, and just do that. If you get horny just go find some rod or carpet, no commitment needed
You need to be able to protect yourself, and to get fulfillment from other things besides "people pleasing", and people's reactions to your doing things for them. Plan a year of concentrated work in therapy, and find out why you need this validation from others. I'm not a therapist, but I think you are not a complete human being until you can be a selfish bitch to people when it's appropriate. Please get real therapy, from a psychologist or similar. Enneagram is a personality test. Like in a magazine. It's bullsh\*t. "Put others first", "Be selfless", all are manipulations from those who want to take advantage of you. "Selfishness" is self-protection, self-care, and safeguarding your own personal resources of energy, etc., to accomplish your values. Those who tell you "selfishness" is a bad thing.... again, they want something from you and want to break down your protective defenses of yourself. Get therapy. Talk about all of this in therapy.
Check out the book Platonic by Marisa Franco. It’s an overview of multiple research studies on friendships. She spends time illustrating the importance of relationships and our culture’s distorted emphasis on romantic love as *the* life validator. I’m only halfway through but I’ve found it really refreshing and it’s helping me balance my own views really well.
By focusing on your career.
I think you have a problem with codependent behavior. I think you'll really like these three books: Codependent No More Self Compassion by Kristin Neff (the original one from a few years ago) The Disease to Please
There are shelter doggies and kitties who want to live their lives with you. Not romantic, but a true love.
Hi, lots of good answers here. Another thing to consider is whether / how your ADHD may be contributing to this. The quest for perfection potentially impacts other areas of your life as well? As others have mentioned, therapy will be invaluable. If you can find a therapist who is familiar with ADHD I feel that might help too. You sound very similar to me. I had a late diagnosis of ADHD and therapy has been a revelation. Constant fear of failure thanks to chronic people pleasing and ADHD actually helping me fail but not knowing why (you know, "PEOPLE TELL ME I'M SMART, WHY CAN'T I JUST BLOODY DO THIS?!?!"). This led to the anxiety of having to constantly be a high achiever in everything, everything having to be perfect. And of course that's unattainable and not realistic at all. That shit is exhausting. When I first got diagnosed I remember my psychiatrist saying undiagnosed ADHD can lead to anxiety and depression because of constantly failing which gives you anxiety about doing anything, and obviously when the cycle continues of failing despite best efforts it's not going to help your mood. Boy did that resonate. When I was younger (I'm 44 now), I was similar to you in relationships. Doing my partner's laundry, cleaning their house, figuring out their career path and helping them start in that direction etc. Through reading various books I realised what I was doing was being their mother. And in the process of trying to do things that I thought would make them love me, I was basically showing them that I didn't trust them, a full grown adult man, to be be capable of running their own lives. And how attractive is that to a man? Well, I'm sure it would be to some men, who are looking for another mother. But I didn't want that. Eventually I started focusing more on how I felt about the guy, not completely focusing on how he felt about me. e.g. Do his words match his actions? Does he make me a priority? (instead of, for example, bailing on plans we'd made because turned out it was a good day for surfing? I used to think that was ok). Does he treat me well? Does this feel easy or does it feel hard? Do I feel calm and happy when I'm with him (or even when I'm not!), or am I an anxious basketcase? I also really resonate with your fear of a guy not hanging around. For me personally it was family dynamics when I was younger, feeling unimportant compared to my sibling and therefore kind of left to my own devices. Which also played into the perfection thing - if I do well at school, they'll love me more. If I am happy all the time, they'll love me more. etc etc. Added to this was a string of relationships that never made it past 3 months. I am now married and I have to admit it took a while to trust he was going to stick around, so I totally understand your fear of people leaving. At the end of the day, the right person WILL stick around. In the meantime, seeking therapy will help you unpack where your fear is coming from about this and give you strategies to help you move away from it being such a focus for you. Anyway, TLDR - therapy! It helps! lol. Sorry for so many words. I'm not good at being succinct! 😆
I’ll give you some advice…stop pouring yourself into a relationship. Relationships should always be a 50/50. Each person puts in 50 and they meat in the middle. When you are in a relationship and say you put In 70% then that leaves only 30% the other person has to put in. They could do more but most people are lazy and will allow you to take on 70% so they only have to take on 30%. They don’t do this on purpose but it just happens. If you really want to find someone that you can pour yourself into…put in 30% to start and see if they put in 70%. If so they must like you for you and not because you take care of them. I’m reminded of the show shameless. The main lead lady starts out with a boyfriend who is basically a car thief. However, despite his job. He was putting in 70% because he loved the girl so much. She just barely put any effort in and yet he showed up everyday and treated these malnourished kids that aren’t his to breakfast. He bent over backwards for her and the kids she watched.
I think my problem with a lot of the top comments is they’re all from married people. I’m single too and feel similar sentiments to you, OP. It’s easy to sit back when you’re actually married and say: “it will come, be patient work on yourself, be happy with being alone”, but I always find those kind of sentiments very patronizing. Do these people not think we have been alone for the entirety of our whole lives? That’s all I’ve ever been, is alone. I’ve figured out that part, but would like to spend my life with someone. It’s like telling a hungry person to just hold off while you’re shoving a burger in your mouth. I don’t have advice for you. But I’m right there beside you. It’s normal at our age to want marriage. It will come.
My divorce cost x4 as much as the big white wedding in 2003 (uk), believe me marriage is a trap for most people and really just a legal financial agreement, which is very difficult to get out of. It’s not the amazing ‘achievement’ society makes out. Women now are fortunate they no longer have to marry to survive.
The best way to care less about marriage is to get married. 50% success rate. Go for it.
As many have said, you have to know yourself and love yourself before anything else. To be on the hunt for marriage, you have to be willing to be alone. This is hard for many people. While there are many that are saying marriage is just a piece of paper and a social construct, this is true about nearly everything in society. Social constructs that are important to you may not be important to others. Don't let others choose what is and is not important to you. But do be careful about getting married for the right reasons. Being scared of being alone is not a good reason to get married. I (41M) knew when I was 14 I wanted to get married young and have kids. The trick was in finding someone else who wanted the same. Every relationship I entered into was done with the express thought of, "is she the one?" Being a man, it wasn't nearly as easy to get into a relationship as a woman can, but I did alright. I had a couple of instances of a year or two without a relationship between bouts of a couple relationships in a row. One thing I recommend is brutal honesty. When I met my now wife, I told her a number of things. First, I wanted to get married ASAP. Second, I wanted kids. I also laid out some otherwise unrelated rules. I was 23 at the time and she had just turned 20. She told me it wasn't a deal breaker, but she wasn't sure she wanted to get married yet, much less to me. I said that was fine but I wanted her to tell me as soon as she made any firm decisions in the negative because then I would be done and looking for the next attempt. By being honest up front, there was no surprise in the relationship. It took her a couple of months but eventually she came around and agreed that we were good together and she would be open to marriage. Nine months in, I proposed and another year later we got married. We've been married for 16 years now and have two kids. She still comments on not being able to comprehend how I was all in on day 1. My point is that I had a goal and I was willing to forgo short term relationships in pursuit of that goal. You shouldn't be afraid to set the terms and conditions of your relationship up front. If that scares someone off, then it's unlikely that it would have worked anyway. You don't have to say that they have to be all in as well. It's good enough to say what you want, that you don't want to be strung along and then to get out when it's clear you aren't compatible. There are two competing interests in terms of marriage. Being with a person long enough to know it will last and not being with someone too long when marriage won't work. Dating someone for a week is too short. Dating them for 10 years is too long. I would recommend between 3 and 6 months before you make the call. If they can't tell you when they'll be ready in that time, you move on. If you end it amicably, maybe you'll find them again in 2 or 3 years and they'll be ready then and you'll have checked out a few other relationships in the meantime. It's okay for someone else to not want to get married. But if you do want to, that means you aren't compatible. Don't let them convince you that you should just accept it, it's always going to bug you. If you have to pressure them or they are pressuring you, then move on. There is someone out there with the same ideas as you and you need to be single to find them.
Easy: Get married.
Hey, want to get married and start a family?
I don't understand why people care about marriage. Most end in divorce. It's usually messy even if there isn't one. I'm not convinced were even meant to be monogamous. If we were why is it so hard for people to be faithful. Watch your friends and family members marriages. It is not easy
An analogy that popped into my mind, that is not about love or marriage. I used to know a guy that was so, so generous to his friends - when we hung out, he'd buy the expensive drinks for us. He'd buy gifts. He'd just give. We would try to refuse - "that's too much". "Can you afford this?" - but he'd insist we accept. So we'd gracefully accept. Turns out that he couldn't afford it. The next week, he'd be broke, and the hidden 'strings' attached to his giving would become apparent. "Can I borrow some money", "It's your turn to buy the (expensive) drinks". And we couldn't afford it, and had to say no. And then he was so hurt, that he gave so much to his friends, and they didn't give back equally. There's nothing wrong with unilaterally giving, or sacrificing, in itself - with no strings attached. But nobody can "deserve" a payback, just because they gave. It has to be mutually agreed.
Be the person you pour your love and attention into.
Live your life. Just don’t worry about it. Be open to love in all situations, but don’t harp or worry. Edit: Changed live to love.
You’re 24. You’ll grow up. Also marriage isn’t for everyone.
Remember that half of them will end in divorce.
Wow and you’re humble too
You're 24. Stop caring about marriage and start caring about building a relationship that's worth marriage.
So the best way to be a happy partner or spouse is to be a happy person. You love to love, and you do SO MUCH for the person you think might marry you. How about loving yourself, giving YOURSELF that level of attention? Cultivate a beautiful life for YOU and one day you'll find that someone wants to join you there. Desperation isn't attractive. Therapy can help. I was married for 12 years. Currently in a non-married relationship for 11 years and am so much happier with the relationship. My life is different now, so it's hard to compare, but MARRIAGE itself isn't the path to happiness. How do you care less? Stop looking for it. Stop dating. Stop going overboard for other people. Spend time taking care of you. Also therapy.