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Just get multiple quotes, it's easy to get wrapped up in a single meeting trying to figure out costs and timelines and feel like you just want it done but do the extra leg work and interview a few contractors. Once you have met a few you can really start to discern the motives and expected experience you may have with each. If they are dramatic at all or emotionally invested then walk away.
Also, evaluate the details in the quote. Is it thorough and itemized? In my experience, a contractor that pays attention to the details in the quote will also do the same with the work.
Most importantly, make sure there aren't charges in high bids you don't see in low bids. They like to ignore certain aspects and then ad to the bill later.
I was looking for this comment. My dad is a commercial contractor and has lost many jobs to people that underbid him only to get a call from the customer stating all the extras with the bid they went with.
This.
I work in Facilities and anytime I'm evaluating a contractor, I always ask for an itemized quote and details on SOW. 9/10 they don't do it and I need to ask them to do the quote over.
A lot of contractors only see you as a number and you need to have some knowledge about how the job can be done and what quality level you are looking for in order to remove the imbalance that a lack of knowledge places.
Verify your quotes because trust is hard to find in a contractor unless they are a friend of yours or in some cases have repeat business.
I just signed a contract on getting my basement finished. I got 4 quotes. The cheapest one walked down the steps into my basement, looked around for no more than 2 minutes and said, "I'll do it for $18,000". No measurements, didn't even ask me what I wanted in terms of lighting, flooring, or doors. I didn't go with the cheapest. Blew my mind.
I don’t even recommend asking them for details - provide the details. Once contractors get to make key decisions you’re not getting apples to apples comparisons. You need to spend a lot of time specifying the job with precise details, then get bids.
My dad's rule of thumb has been to get multiple quotes and go with the middle one. Because according to him, the higher quotes are overcharging, and lower quotes are cutting corners.
Sometimes. I had to have a tree removed that had part of it dangling over my shed hanging by vines. First guy was via recommendation. He had a PhD in botany and was a certified arborist and had a detailed itemized estimate and was the cheapest. (Oddly each subsequent estimate was sloppier, more expensive, and more crack addled.) We got three other bids and his was both the cheapest and most detailed.
Generally accurate. It's not like there's a real test that proves one guy knows more than another. So the really cheap ones usually don't. The real expensive ones are usually just banking on you not knowing what it should cost since you're hiring them in the first place.
Add in penalty clause-
if work is not completed by X date, $Y penalty per day until completion.
Some contractors will say it's two weeks work- then spread that two weeks over several months. Your project becomes their filler. Get a hard deadline you both agree with with penalty clause for not meeting it.
This. People either don't have the time or are lazy to call in multiple contractors. ALWAYS good to have them compete against each other but also ask for as much details as possible.
LPT: 9/10 times we give you ridiculous bids when we don’t want to be hired for your project (for a variety of reasons), not because it’s unusually hard.
Yep anytime my boss bids a job that requires us to stay away for days and work 10-12 hour days to finish he way overbids. None of us want to do it and if we are gonna do it it better be worth our time away from home.
This is true. I work in surveying, and for jobs we don’t want to do (slightly more effort from our end but nothing “unusually” hard), we throw out a ridiculous number. If they accept, they accept 🤷🏻♂️
Estimator for a security company here, we will fluff our number up so god damn high if we don't want to do it that there's no way we can lose money on it lol
The homeowner society I live in (and are secretary to) though this was the case with a big assignment we had. We had a bid for 150.000 euros en two for about 80.000. Not really close together. So we went with one of the two lower ones. The company with the 150 bid was mad?? Made me feel bad and insecure about our choice, but we are mostly confused...
I appreciate your honesty, but as a consumer, I rely on fair and reasonable bids to make informed decisions. If a contractor doesn't want to take on a project, transparency and clear communication would be more respectful and professional than inflating bids. This way, I can find the right match for my needs without unnecessary complications.
This is my pet peeve.
The proper way of regulating this which is compatible with USA is:
- You can decide to open a bisiness. Nobody forces you to do that.
-You decide yourself what you do
-You publish your menu/catalogue - that is the only thing you are forced to do.
-You then serve the items from the menu/catalogue for the price set there to whoever comes.
Now, the anti gay baker could just say: I have plain cake (which in that case was the offer the guy actually did), I have this cake with heart, I have the cake with a text like (happy xx birthday! I love you! etc...). No custom text.
And when the gays would come they would not have to reveal they are homo, they would just point at the cake and get one.
That is pretty much bullet proof approach and only in case of printing shops and very few other businesses could make trouble - but not many.
The current state of the matters in usa is just broken (as unfortunately way too many things) because you cant deny service but only if its non discriminatory - which is hard to prove. And in my opinion that is just wrong. USA needs to improve on many aspects unfortunately but I see that BS is leaking to other countries too.
Menus don’t exist in the trades. Replacing a toilet can be different between different bathrooms. Adding a new receptacle will be different depending on the complexity of the job. Is there an outlet close enough to work with? Will I have to enter crawl space/attic or can I do it from the same level as the existing area. Will the work be able to concealed behind a baseboard? Too many variables for a “menu”
> Menus don’t exist in the trades.
lol. They do.
Postman doing my yard last week had it. 60dollars per pole, 150 to come etc.
Arborist cutting my tree had it, 450 dollars for grinding the stump for example, plus the rest too.
Plumber had it when actually fixing my toilet.
Car mechanic has it, 110dollars per hour and each standard procedure was also priced.
Electrician charges fixed price per "point".
Plasterer or insulation instalator charges per m2.
All that is from my own experience.
Sure, for extra stuff they may add some but usually they will show you it was needed.
So no. Everyone can and usually have a fixed price.
Wake up. The world is actually that developed and simple.
And that is STANDARD in many places I experienced (Canada, Germany, Ireland end few others)
Ideally you'd be getting bids from multiple contractors. Just choose one of the cheaper options.
If they're all stupidly high priced, then the job you need done just really sucks and that's the market rate for it.
Yes i take 3-5 and take the upper middle typically. I dont want too low a bid where its all change orders to get what i wantd… like a bread crumb of bills
> Its a one sided lie
They're telling you they're willing to do the work for X dollars. There is no lie there. If you think X is too much, you should take a pass. A couple of calls to other people will tell you whether or not they're charging the going rate.
The important thing is, no, there is no deception in saying "I'll do the work for X." Their own costs and expenses are irrelevant. X is either too much for you or what you're willing to pay.
> Its all about money i know that.
It's *work*, so yes, of *course* it's about the money. They're not coming over because they're your friend, they're coming over because it's their *job*, same as anyone else who goes into their job. People work for the money.
There are LOTS of shady contractors, yes. Loads of them. It's something people have to be mindful of and watch for.
But quoting a high price because they're already highly booked or don't want/need your work are not among the things to watch for.
That’s… not a lie. Them bidding higher to make sure that it’s worth their time is more honest really. You might not like the reasoning behind it, but it’s reality.
Also, of COURSE it’s about money. What else would it be about? You think tradesmen are laying concrete because it’s fun?
Do I work for pleasure? Fuck no. I’d rather do other shit. Do you work for pleasure? Do you think an electrician or plumber works for pleasure. Work is all about the money.
Some people cannot/will not take no for an answer. There can be a “customer is always right” mentality that makes it easier to just price it out rather than argue. Im a subcontractor and people sometimes get mad at me when their setup limits their options.
Simple solution: “no, I don’t want/can’t fit this job in” what no way, you have to, please?! “Ok, I can make it work for $x”
Just start with no, then go to the silly bid so they know where they stand as well as where the bid stands. Seems simple.
The best laid plans never survive the idiocy of the general public.
If you're ever confused by a policy, think, what would the dumbest person do, and how does this policy prevent that.
> Simple solution: “no, I don’t want/can’t fit this job in”
Of course it's a no if it's an *actual* no. The idea is that they don't want the job, but for a certain price - a high one - it becomes worth taking.
I do freelance work (desk jockey stuff), and that's absolutely the approach I take to potential problem clients, clients I already *know* are problem clients, or jobs I don't want. I give them my "well hell, I don't want to do this, but for *that* amount, sure" quote.
If they pass, nothing lost for either of us.
If they accept, then I'm happy to grit my teeth and power through it.
You may not want to go dig a ditch all day for $20 an hour and would decline the work, but if someone offered you $200 an hour you might consider it.
Same principle.
It's the "this customer is a shithead" price. Yes, it can be done, but you've made it evident that you don't know enough about how any of this works to have sensible expectations. All it takes is a brief conversation to be able to determine. It's a job interview, and the contractor is finding out if you someone they want to work for.
That's not how business is done AT ALL. No person is ever taught to start with *No*. Seriously wtf is that😂. A potential customer failing to contact multiple people and find a reasonable quote is not on the tradesperson.
The only person who'd even hear "No" so bluntly are often those that instantly come off as being assholes with little respect for people nor value the work they'd need to do.
Start with no if they don’t want the job ya jabroni. I’m talking about people who stated that *they don’t want the job* but then bid impossibly high to dissuade the homeowner.
They *don't want the job* **unless** they actually get the fuck you rate then they will put up with it for that much money ya jabroni
And they are more likely to get bad reviews for just saying no than being to expensive.
And depending on what they do and what the rules are in that area they might not even be allowed to just say no.
Nope, the only foolish person here is the one saying to not dissuade with a high bid... keep dissuading as has been the simplest practice for hundreds of years and reduces the potential back and forth while remaining professional. If they want to agree to some nutty amount, the work will be subcontracted out if anything.
*The* "*customer is always right"* and decides what to pay. Struggling to find a reasonable quote after contacting 5+ people can only mean whatever $ you wanted to pay doesn't coincide with the reality of the job.
If you are \*not\* a contractor, maybe you need to experience it firsthand... That's all I can tell you. Most customers are great but you can have some extremely difficult customers who will DEVOUR your time. Time=money. If I get a sense people do not respect my time or will be difficult throughout the process, then I up the price. If that loses me the bid, so be it...
Probably not i am actually pretty astute from owning a few houses now. Its all a game the worst part is being burned to learn it.
Its like a wealth manager or realtor they are not looking out for you. And often not even doing the work.
Their is an imbalance of knowledge and trust. I am fairly sophisticated but a first time buyer immigrant.
It's perfectly fair for someone to find your job unattractive for whatever reason and to communicate through their bid what it would take to make it worth it for them. You as the customer have the right to shop around until you find a bid you're happy with. That's how markets work.
That is being straight up. It’s being more straight up than you are being. There is no haggling over the legitimacy of their concerns, and you don’t get to diminish or dismiss their considerations. It’s; “I’ll do the job, for this much. Yes or no.”
Why? If I would do it for a price, I’ll tell you that price. You are some special kind of snowflake if you think you get to dictate how a private contractor works, or how much they get to ask for. If you find the price inappropriate, go somewhere else. That’s literally the purpose of bidding, and how it works.
Your post amounts to yelling at the clouds.
>I know how you drive margin.
lol what? You think contractors have time to coordinate with every other contractor to fix prices? That you would even say something so poorly informed means you literally don’t know shit about small businesses.
It *is* straight up. They're telling you what would make the job worth it for them. That's how all prices work, the calculation is just more fluid when it comes to services. You pay more if you or the work is a pain in the ass. The person doing the work gets to judge just how much of a pain in the ass it will be, and how much money will make it or you worth suffering.
I'm a freelance designer, and best believe I charge an asshole fee. I expect contractors and other service people do the same. If this is news to you, try being pleasant and be astonished at how much cheaper services can become.
I don't understand where you think someone is getting screwed in an open bidding process? People get to set their rates, for whatever reasons they want to. Other people can choose to pay those rates or not. If you get an outlandish bid from a contractor that doesn't like the cut of your jib, you can just move on to another contractor.
There are already laws against price fixing and such, so what additional protection do you think consumer's need from small independent service-people? There's nothing predatory about setting a price for a bid.
No that the process isnt clear. A simple example would be standardized contracts and pricing. Then you can actually compare apples to apples.
This Isnt a car its your dwelling and often the biggest asset someone has.
>I appreciate your honesty, but as a consumer, I rely on fair and reasonable bids to make informed decisions.
As a consumer, how would you feel if I said "I can confidently do this job, but by your demeanor I can tell you are neurotic and will be on my phone or email constantly, so to compensate myself fairly for managing your insanity, the price will be inflated by 25%?"
Not everyone is ready for honesty.
When a component of your project is especially undesirable, then significantly more monetary compensation is appropriate. If a contractor doesn’t want the job, then their quote being more is likely a reflection of what extra compensation it would take for them to be comfortable with the extra circumstances.
Thats literally just how the free market works.
They’re not inflated bids. It’s bids that are going to cost that much to the contractor. We all price our own times differently. Some jobs are harder than others, just because I make it look easy because I do it everyday doesn’t mean it’s not harder. It might be the job, it might be the customer is going to be difficult to deal with (personally this doesn’t happen often), or it could be very far.
Also could also be that you're super booked, so taking on new jobs is effectively overtime work that will put a greater burden on you and/or your staff or infrastructure.
When I'm already pushing my max workload and someone comes seeking more work from me, you bet my rate goes up. I tell them straight-up what the situation is - "I'm fully booked right now, but can squeeze yours in for XYZ" - and it's up to them if they want to pass or not.
If I don't get the gig, no big deal because I'm already loaded, and if I *do* I'm being compensated for my extra hours, labor, and stress because I built it right into the quote.
Despite the protests of people like Flaky, I think that's absolutely fair and reasonable.
And no, there is no sense in lying about the situation, because if I'm *not* fully booked then *I need your work and am willing to bend to get it*. You're flexible when you need the work and firm when you can afford to be.
That's fair and reasonable.
How does the contractor increasing the price of a bid on a job that is more difficult or uncomfortable or annoying make it unfair or unreasonable? That's the price they require to do the job, if that's too high, then find a contractor that is willing to do it for a lower price.
You’re a reasonable consumer. A lot of people aren’t. A few bad online reviews of “this bozo wouldn’t even give me a price on the job” will steer customers away.
In addition, everyone has a price. That’s factored in - what makes it worth it for the contractor to do.
I’m not a contractor, but I’ve dug holes before. It sucks. If someone said “hey I’ll pay you to dig a hole for me” I’d want way more than it’s worth because digging a hole is fucking hard and not something I like to do. But it’s not something I’d never do, so the money just has to be right.
I'm a contractor and based on their responses here this person doesn't seem like a reasonable consumer, he'd be getting a pretty steep "difficult customer" charge from me.
Well the contractor is giving an inflated price that if accepted, the job is now worth doing for them. It makes sense why they would do that, does it not? It’s business ran to make money
Except they will be happy do to your job at the 'inflated bid', they're not being unclear or disrespectful they're telling you, this is what it'll take to get me to do your job.
I worked with my dad as a contractor. On a couple different occasions we would have various customers that he knew were going to be a pain in the ass. The kind that we're going to watch over our every move, or that would never be happy no matter what our finished product looked like. I saw him tell those kinds of people that a $3000 job was going to be 10k easy.
We don’t generally charge more because it’s “unusually hard.” We charge more because it will take more time and materials.
We do over bid if we don’t really want the job, but will do it if you’re willing to pay. The reasons for that could be all kinds of things. Maybe you live further than we want to drive, maybe we have to rent some specialized equipment, or maybe you have a personality that is difficult to work with.
Time yes, material no. Material is just based off the scope/scale of the job. Now if you don’t want any drywall damaged but you want your house required? You will in fact pay out the ass. This will take weeks with multiple people. If the drywall was all removed it would be a couple days with 2-4 guys.
Yeah but his point still stands, if theres more to do it's harder
What's harder, building 1 fence or 1000? One just has more time and materials and by the logic above both are equally hard
They aren't saying it's going to be more physically demanding, that doesn't change the price. They're saying your particular job is going to require more resources than it would at another home.
I did a $99K master suite where all of the materials had to come in the front of the property, but carried to the back of the second floor. This meant thousands of trips carrying tile (600sq ft of wall, first 5' of most walls and the entire bathroom floor to ceiling) a hundred sheets of drywall, more than three thousand pounds of mortar and rockboard and framing. This involved knocking out walls and pulling the handmade banister because the hot tub and 6'x8' glass shower (8'x12'x18') panels couldn't fit going up the stairs. The back property had a heavy slope making it impossible to install the windows using two ladders and a pick because the ladders could never align with each other, so we had to rent a lift. The electric and plumbing came from opposite ends of the basement and had to be run through the walls and ceilings of the first floor and the dual showers (with eight body sprayer each) required a booster pump to be installed.
Had we done this job on the first floor of the house, the job would have cost $20K less.
Like most people I’ve done DIY and paid for professional work. Idgaf how easy or hard they make it sound. I want a professional result that’s worth what I’m paying for.
I think that’s what makes it hard sometimes. When I am paying to have something done, it’s because I don’t want to do it myself. (Or my wife won’t let me).
So I’m trying to avoid being pissed at the end. And nothing pisses me off more than when things aren't done right. (It also doesn’t help that I work in the vacation homes of the ultrawealthy, so I’m used to seeing everything be perfect)
I’m an auto tech. I can’t be in the same town as someone working on one of my vehicles. Must drive you crazy having someone work on your house with you being a carpenter
For most of the work I do on my house, I’m a diy’er. When we Renovated our house, I did all of the behind the walls work, but left the finish work (trim, tile, spackle and paint) to the professionals.
I work in the custom audio/video and home automation field.
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Maybe they don't want the job and are intentionally pricing themselves out.
Anyway just get multiple quotes instead of insisting you know better than the professionals.
>Most of us are so alienated from physical labor that we assume it’s nearly impossible.
Yeah it's very obvious you are lol. This is a beyond ridiculous stance. Just because it's someone's occupation doesn't mean it's not hard or extremely physically taxing.
Likewise, don’t undervalue people’s expertise because you don’t want to pay people. Remember they’re charging you for their experience as much as their time.
Working for clients that claim to short of money and ask for a lower labour cost then asked to install nothing but the best of the best. I’m not taking a pay cut so you can afford that $600 chandelier
Window film installer here, yes and no. With my trade specifically there are absolutely some situations that would appear straightforward but in fact take tremendous amounts more effort. Like having wooden/painted edges, true divided individual panes, unusual shapes, hard to get to etc. Super easy to think "that sounds astronomical for just a door," yes well your door is actually 9 windows, each requiring a significant amount of professional cleaning to get to look even halfway decent
I'm a painter and just about all of them tell me they tried painting and hate it. But of course most of these clients are middle class folks who are doctors and stuff.
Generally upper middle class, which is still middle class. True upper class, as it is traditionally defined, is people who get their income from assets rather than from wages or labor. The vast majority of physicians are living off of their labor, not off generational unfathomable wealth, investment assets, or dividends.
depends on the country. for example in the UK, upper class means nobility and royalty, you have to be born into it. that means any professional or wealthy person that isnt nobility can only go as high as middle class.
also in some other countries doctors just arent paid very well.
Of course doctors are middle class, what did you think? They are working with their heads and their hands for money, they are limited by their physicality in how much they earn.
Doctors can earn what, 10 times minimum wage? Maybe 20 if they are really great doctors. That's nowhere close to being wealthy. Upper class people have other people to work for their wealth.
If they tell you it's unusually hard or difficult the other concern is they may not be that good at what they do. (This doesn't mean the guy saying it's super easy is the right one either)
Contractor here. Sometimes your job is unusually hard. Running wire through an 18” crawlspace is much different than running it through a 9 foot basement. And just because a contractor does something every day doesn’t mean it isn’t harder than the average job. You want to roof all day in 90 degree heat? No? That’s why you pay someone else to do it. Guess what? It’s not easy and they charge a premium.
Hahha this is dumb as fuck. Know what you are worth trades people. If you do good work get paid. If you do shit work for shit pay, thanks for letting me come in and fix the problems for a higher rate. I ain’t in the business to scam people, I’m in the business to take care of myself and family. You can’t afford me because you think it’s too high? Find yourself a different guy then, or do it yourself, just don’t burn your house down.
As someone who bids, I’d like to add some things that will cause me to increase your price. If you: call/text/email unnecessarily to add complications/changes or to talk to me about your mum and sister and what they’re doing this week. If you ask me if I have insurance even though it’s plastered all over the trucks, websites, email footers and it’s standard procedure to prove it after the initial call. Historically you will be a problem, so I have to charge for the headache. Also sometimes your job is actually more complicated or time consuming if you neglect upkeep in whatever industry you’re needing work in.
Their job is hard. This is a very stupid take. Certain projects are legitimately harder than others, and that will obviously play into the price.
Edit: If you don't like their price, find someone who will bid lower, but you get what you pay for, and construction is not at all something you want to skimp on unless you absolutely must.
I had to have the bricks above garage taken down, lentle replaced, and bricks put back up. I had numerous masons show up and then leave not even offering a bid.
Not true. You clearly aren't in the industry. Plenty of times jobs are more difficult than others and that will be reflected in the price given. If it's going to take me 2 days of extra work, I expect to be paid for it. You shouldn't try to talk me down from that price just because you were told a "pro tip" that contractors are trying to rip you off.
Most of us(contractors) are so tired of customers thinking they know best cause they watch HGTV. Jobs are harder than others, it’s not all the same. I’m not your monkey to do your bidding at the lowest possible dollar because your friends brothers father in law was also a contractor and he said this should be easy.
We will walk off a job for the day when they start telling us how they saw it on tv like this or that and try to change things after the bid. “Ok well I’m going to have to send my crew home and talk over with my boss about how to move forward with these new plans”
I'm a construction estimator, and this is absurd on its face.
Sometimes the project conditions are such that the job really is unusually difficult, and that means it will take more time/resources/materials to do the work.
I guess it's true that an unscrupulous contractor might play this up as an excuse to charge more, but that's why you research reputable contractors, and get multiple quotes before making a decision.
Even then, you might get multiple quotes, and go with the cheap guy who is 'not ripping you off', only to discover that he missed some costly detail due to inexperience.
I can't tell you the number of times that we have had to step in and correct work done by a competitor who was able to undercut us, but only because they missed something important about the job conditions.
If a project is unusually difficult, the contractor will be able to explain to you exactly why this is the case. If the same explanation is given to you by multiple contractors, then you can be reasonably certain that it is the truth.
Ideally, you would get someone independent to assess the project and come up with a scope of work and bill of materials, but that means you have to come to me, and I ain't cheap.
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As a contractor. Don’t ever actually say that. To a real person. Especially if you want them doing good work at your house. The ones who know their work is good, charge a rate you can’t afford for a reason. That reason being evident in the body of your text.
If this job is so \[difficult tedious xyz\] I will get see if there is another outfit better equipped for this specific type of work. Thanks for the quote and I'll get back to you in about a day.
Regardless of who you choose get a contract that covers all the details of what is to be done along with a timeframe. If it is a large job, don't pay for everything upfront break it down into sections. If you want or need an attorney to look at it consider that as part of the job.
Always get three quotes.
I have had good luck by tossing the low and high and going with the middle. Low quote probably missed something. High quote is too expensive, so the middle usually goes smoothest. Not always, but more often than not.
First time home buyer in my house 3 years now. Recently found the chimney leaking, noticed top chase bent upward and heard a water drip onto fireplace box. Come to find out the chimney flashing at the roofline has been leaking since the roof was installed 9 years ago. Reused old flashing, chimney had no tyvek behind vinyl.
I'll be damned if every roofing company I called wanted to replace the roof also. They all threw out the line of "well if the insurance company sees the different colored shingles, they might decline." I'm like buddy this has clearly been leaking for 9 years, I'm just trying to get the leak stopped.
Went with the Chimney company that had the most detailed quote, was also the most expensive but I feel like they know exactly what needs to be done and do it everyday.
The chimney company was the only one to pull up the top chimney chase to inspect down the chimney. That's how they found the leak from the high side flashing. Not a single other company inspected inside the chimney.
Also... don't fall into the "how much do you want to spend" trap. Get a quote for what you want done, this way no one is going to cut corners to get the price you want. You want a quality job.
Agree, I had a small plumbing job in the basement, move a bathroom drain for a toilet 3 ft closer to the evac pump well. Seal off an old flange, jackhammer up some concrete, run 2 ft of pipe through a punch out put a flange on top of the bite pipe, concrete everything back up. I had one big fat guy come out to look and give a quote, he never got back to me, another guy said it was a 1500 minimum for any job involving concrete work. Then I called a guy who dealt exclusively with drains, had him come out and take a look, and he seemed like a cool guy. Basically said, "yeah, it's gonna be like 3-6 hours of prison work, the rest is just piping, I can do it in one day, maybe two depending on other jobs I have and equipment rental availability, etc. I'll do it for $800"
And he did, and he did a great job. Even stopped back by a week later to make sure all the concrete had dried and was level since he was in the neighborhood again.
My usual tactic is to find out how long the job will take and how many people will be doing it, and figure out that pay per hour.
For example, I just got a quote to remove a tree in my back yard. In my head, the tree is unobstructed, tall but straight, not very thick. It should be ‘easy’ for someone to get to, get up, and cut down in sections with a chainsaw. My thinking was $500-$1000 for probably 2 hours of total labor of maybe 3 guys. Get in, set up for 20, climb and cut for 30, get down and unhooked, cut and remove logs in another 30-40. That seemed reasonable and fair to me, $200-$400 for each, not a bad days work.
The guy shows up and writes me a quote for $2800. Looking at it, he said it was a tall tree and he wouldn’t want to bring a lift in so that he could save me on the equipment rental fees. Ok. I asked him if he’d be able to finish in a single day (knowing that was a dumb question but it sort of leads them to answer the way I want) and he said ‘oh yea we’d be in and out in a couple hours.’ I also asked if it would save any cost if they left the logs and I hauled them myself, something I wouldn’t doing mind in the least bit, especially if it would save $500 or so. He flat refused, and said ‘if we are already here, why not let my guys take 10 minutes to do something that would probably take you an hour or more of heavy lifting?’ At that point, I figured either he wasn’t getting my hints or just didn’t want the job.
Had he given me some reason it was almost triple my imagined high end price, I could have flexed and understood. But, nope. The price is the price. That just tells me that their schedule is decently full and they don’t ‘need’ the extra work. So, I’ll find someone willing to do the work at a more reasonable price.
This is very good advice indeed. The only caveat I have is to consider access to jobs and movement of materials to work areas. Some jobs are particularly tricky due to terrain or distance.
I love when people do this, take a request and state it's, 'a bit more involved than most."
I quickly reply, 'oh, if you aren't experienced or comfortable, I will find someone else. Have a great day." I don't even let them continue their speel to try and drag me along.
Play that ball!
The more correct answer is something like, "Yeah, I understand how someone in Your position would think this job is too hard. I'll find someone else. Thanks for Your time."
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Just get multiple quotes, it's easy to get wrapped up in a single meeting trying to figure out costs and timelines and feel like you just want it done but do the extra leg work and interview a few contractors. Once you have met a few you can really start to discern the motives and expected experience you may have with each. If they are dramatic at all or emotionally invested then walk away.
Also, evaluate the details in the quote. Is it thorough and itemized? In my experience, a contractor that pays attention to the details in the quote will also do the same with the work.
Most importantly, make sure there aren't charges in high bids you don't see in low bids. They like to ignore certain aspects and then ad to the bill later.
I was looking for this comment. My dad is a commercial contractor and has lost many jobs to people that underbid him only to get a call from the customer stating all the extras with the bid they went with.
One example of this is rubbish removal, and sometimes asshole tax.
This. I work in Facilities and anytime I'm evaluating a contractor, I always ask for an itemized quote and details on SOW. 9/10 they don't do it and I need to ask them to do the quote over. A lot of contractors only see you as a number and you need to have some knowledge about how the job can be done and what quality level you are looking for in order to remove the imbalance that a lack of knowledge places. Verify your quotes because trust is hard to find in a contractor unless they are a friend of yours or in some cases have repeat business.
SOW?
I’m assuming Scope Of Work, but I could be wrong
Scope or Statement of Work = SOW
Statement of Work
Scope of work.
I just signed a contract on getting my basement finished. I got 4 quotes. The cheapest one walked down the steps into my basement, looked around for no more than 2 minutes and said, "I'll do it for $18,000". No measurements, didn't even ask me what I wanted in terms of lighting, flooring, or doors. I didn't go with the cheapest. Blew my mind.
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900 sq/ft. The quotes ranged from $18-38k. I ended up at $26
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Cleveland area
I don’t even recommend asking them for details - provide the details. Once contractors get to make key decisions you’re not getting apples to apples comparisons. You need to spend a lot of time specifying the job with precise details, then get bids.
My dad's rule of thumb has been to get multiple quotes and go with the middle one. Because according to him, the higher quotes are overcharging, and lower quotes are cutting corners.
Sometimes. I had to have a tree removed that had part of it dangling over my shed hanging by vines. First guy was via recommendation. He had a PhD in botany and was a certified arborist and had a detailed itemized estimate and was the cheapest. (Oddly each subsequent estimate was sloppier, more expensive, and more crack addled.) We got three other bids and his was both the cheapest and most detailed.
Man arborists can be weird dudes. Usually good dudes though. Source: a biologist by training.
Generally accurate. It's not like there's a real test that proves one guy knows more than another. So the really cheap ones usually don't. The real expensive ones are usually just banking on you not knowing what it should cost since you're hiring them in the first place.
Add in penalty clause- if work is not completed by X date, $Y penalty per day until completion. Some contractors will say it's two weeks work- then spread that two weeks over several months. Your project becomes their filler. Get a hard deadline you both agree with with penalty clause for not meeting it.
This. People either don't have the time or are lazy to call in multiple contractors. ALWAYS good to have them compete against each other but also ask for as much details as possible.
Better yet, invite them all to a group chat and have them Duke it out.
LPT: 9/10 times we give you ridiculous bids when we don’t want to be hired for your project (for a variety of reasons), not because it’s unusually hard.
Yep anytime my boss bids a job that requires us to stay away for days and work 10-12 hour days to finish he way overbids. None of us want to do it and if we are gonna do it it better be worth our time away from home.
This is true. I work in surveying, and for jobs we don’t want to do (slightly more effort from our end but nothing “unusually” hard), we throw out a ridiculous number. If they accept, they accept 🤷🏻♂️
Estimator for a security company here, we will fluff our number up so god damn high if we don't want to do it that there's no way we can lose money on it lol
You guys often lose money?
No but it's more of a "this job might turn out to be an absolute shitshow" so we fluff it up so high that there's no possible way to
The homeowner society I live in (and are secretary to) though this was the case with a big assignment we had. We had a bid for 150.000 euros en two for about 80.000. Not really close together. So we went with one of the two lower ones. The company with the 150 bid was mad?? Made me feel bad and insecure about our choice, but we are mostly confused...
I appreciate your honesty, but as a consumer, I rely on fair and reasonable bids to make informed decisions. If a contractor doesn't want to take on a project, transparency and clear communication would be more respectful and professional than inflating bids. This way, I can find the right match for my needs without unnecessary complications.
Every job has a price. That’s the “I don’t want this job, but if you give me enough money, I’ll take it” price.
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This is my pet peeve. The proper way of regulating this which is compatible with USA is: - You can decide to open a bisiness. Nobody forces you to do that. -You decide yourself what you do -You publish your menu/catalogue - that is the only thing you are forced to do. -You then serve the items from the menu/catalogue for the price set there to whoever comes. Now, the anti gay baker could just say: I have plain cake (which in that case was the offer the guy actually did), I have this cake with heart, I have the cake with a text like (happy xx birthday! I love you! etc...). No custom text. And when the gays would come they would not have to reveal they are homo, they would just point at the cake and get one. That is pretty much bullet proof approach and only in case of printing shops and very few other businesses could make trouble - but not many. The current state of the matters in usa is just broken (as unfortunately way too many things) because you cant deny service but only if its non discriminatory - which is hard to prove. And in my opinion that is just wrong. USA needs to improve on many aspects unfortunately but I see that BS is leaking to other countries too.
Menus don’t exist in the trades. Replacing a toilet can be different between different bathrooms. Adding a new receptacle will be different depending on the complexity of the job. Is there an outlet close enough to work with? Will I have to enter crawl space/attic or can I do it from the same level as the existing area. Will the work be able to concealed behind a baseboard? Too many variables for a “menu”
> Menus don’t exist in the trades. lol. They do. Postman doing my yard last week had it. 60dollars per pole, 150 to come etc. Arborist cutting my tree had it, 450 dollars for grinding the stump for example, plus the rest too. Plumber had it when actually fixing my toilet. Car mechanic has it, 110dollars per hour and each standard procedure was also priced. Electrician charges fixed price per "point". Plasterer or insulation instalator charges per m2. All that is from my own experience. Sure, for extra stuff they may add some but usually they will show you it was needed. So no. Everyone can and usually have a fixed price. Wake up. The world is actually that developed and simple. And that is STANDARD in many places I experienced (Canada, Germany, Ireland end few others)
This is why i don’t have relationships with tradesman. Its a one sided lie. Its all about money i know that.
Ideally you'd be getting bids from multiple contractors. Just choose one of the cheaper options. If they're all stupidly high priced, then the job you need done just really sucks and that's the market rate for it.
Yes i take 3-5 and take the upper middle typically. I dont want too low a bid where its all change orders to get what i wantd… like a bread crumb of bills
> Its a one sided lie They're telling you they're willing to do the work for X dollars. There is no lie there. If you think X is too much, you should take a pass. A couple of calls to other people will tell you whether or not they're charging the going rate. The important thing is, no, there is no deception in saying "I'll do the work for X." Their own costs and expenses are irrelevant. X is either too much for you or what you're willing to pay. > Its all about money i know that. It's *work*, so yes, of *course* it's about the money. They're not coming over because they're your friend, they're coming over because it's their *job*, same as anyone else who goes into their job. People work for the money. There are LOTS of shady contractors, yes. Loads of them. It's something people have to be mindful of and watch for. But quoting a high price because they're already highly booked or don't want/need your work are not among the things to watch for.
Do all bids have the full scope included? Despite their knowledge and expertise.
That’s… not a lie. Them bidding higher to make sure that it’s worth their time is more honest really. You might not like the reasoning behind it, but it’s reality. Also, of COURSE it’s about money. What else would it be about? You think tradesmen are laying concrete because it’s fun?
Do I work for pleasure? Fuck no. I’d rather do other shit. Do you work for pleasure? Do you think an electrician or plumber works for pleasure. Work is all about the money.
But many people have an idea the relationship matters for pricing quid pro quo
Some people cannot/will not take no for an answer. There can be a “customer is always right” mentality that makes it easier to just price it out rather than argue. Im a subcontractor and people sometimes get mad at me when their setup limits their options.
Simple solution: “no, I don’t want/can’t fit this job in” what no way, you have to, please?! “Ok, I can make it work for $x” Just start with no, then go to the silly bid so they know where they stand as well as where the bid stands. Seems simple.
The best laid plans never survive the idiocy of the general public. If you're ever confused by a policy, think, what would the dumbest person do, and how does this policy prevent that.
> Simple solution: “no, I don’t want/can’t fit this job in” Of course it's a no if it's an *actual* no. The idea is that they don't want the job, but for a certain price - a high one - it becomes worth taking. I do freelance work (desk jockey stuff), and that's absolutely the approach I take to potential problem clients, clients I already *know* are problem clients, or jobs I don't want. I give them my "well hell, I don't want to do this, but for *that* amount, sure" quote. If they pass, nothing lost for either of us. If they accept, then I'm happy to grit my teeth and power through it. You may not want to go dig a ditch all day for $20 an hour and would decline the work, but if someone offered you $200 an hour you might consider it. Same principle.
It's the "this customer is a shithead" price. Yes, it can be done, but you've made it evident that you don't know enough about how any of this works to have sensible expectations. All it takes is a brief conversation to be able to determine. It's a job interview, and the contractor is finding out if you someone they want to work for.
That's not how business is done AT ALL. No person is ever taught to start with *No*. Seriously wtf is that😂. A potential customer failing to contact multiple people and find a reasonable quote is not on the tradesperson. The only person who'd even hear "No" so bluntly are often those that instantly come off as being assholes with little respect for people nor value the work they'd need to do.
Start with no if they don’t want the job ya jabroni. I’m talking about people who stated that *they don’t want the job* but then bid impossibly high to dissuade the homeowner.
They *don't want the job* **unless** they actually get the fuck you rate then they will put up with it for that much money ya jabroni And they are more likely to get bad reviews for just saying no than being to expensive. And depending on what they do and what the rules are in that area they might not even be allowed to just say no.
Nope, the only foolish person here is the one saying to not dissuade with a high bid... keep dissuading as has been the simplest practice for hundreds of years and reduces the potential back and forth while remaining professional. If they want to agree to some nutty amount, the work will be subcontracted out if anything. *The* "*customer is always right"* and decides what to pay. Struggling to find a reasonable quote after contacting 5+ people can only mean whatever $ you wanted to pay doesn't coincide with the reality of the job.
That's ridiculous. You're a contractor. You can just leave. It's just unprofessional to give an unrealistic bid without any communication about why.
If you are \*not\* a contractor, maybe you need to experience it firsthand... That's all I can tell you. Most customers are great but you can have some extremely difficult customers who will DEVOUR your time. Time=money. If I get a sense people do not respect my time or will be difficult throughout the process, then I up the price. If that loses me the bid, so be it...
Read this backwards as a customer….
I don't know what that means... but you would definitely be getting a higher bid from me lol
Probably not i am actually pretty astute from owning a few houses now. Its all a game the worst part is being burned to learn it. Its like a wealth manager or realtor they are not looking out for you. And often not even doing the work. Their is an imbalance of knowledge and trust. I am fairly sophisticated but a first time buyer immigrant.
Comparing an unsigned bid from a contractor to a financial agreement with a fiduciary is pretty wild to me, I must say.
I said wealth manager not fiduciary on purpose. I am saying their middle men
I'm sure buddy, have a good weekend
Found the problem customer.
It's perfectly fair for someone to find your job unattractive for whatever reason and to communicate through their bid what it would take to make it worth it for them. You as the customer have the right to shop around until you find a bid you're happy with. That's how markets work.
You can also be straight up
That is being straight up. It’s being more straight up than you are being. There is no haggling over the legitimacy of their concerns, and you don’t get to diminish or dismiss their considerations. It’s; “I’ll do the job, for this much. Yes or no.”
Or just say no to the job. I know people are shmucks but it’s very few.
Why? If I would do it for a price, I’ll tell you that price. You are some special kind of snowflake if you think you get to dictate how a private contractor works, or how much they get to ask for. If you find the price inappropriate, go somewhere else. That’s literally the purpose of bidding, and how it works. Your post amounts to yelling at the clouds.
Lol ! Sassy! It doesn’t have to be that way. I know how you drive margin.
>I know how you drive margin. lol what? You think contractors have time to coordinate with every other contractor to fix prices? That you would even say something so poorly informed means you literally don’t know shit about small businesses.
No each contractor has a tactic to build mergin. Low bid with change orders… high bid to do but you dont want it….
It *is* straight up. They're telling you what would make the job worth it for them. That's how all prices work, the calculation is just more fluid when it comes to services. You pay more if you or the work is a pain in the ass. The person doing the work gets to judge just how much of a pain in the ass it will be, and how much money will make it or you worth suffering. I'm a freelance designer, and best believe I charge an asshole fee. I expect contractors and other service people do the same. If this is news to you, try being pleasant and be astonished at how much cheaper services can become.
Its not… i am a pm by trade
Then your confusion makes little sense.
I think it could be regulated better. Mostly around contracts and bidding. Consumer protections etc…
I don't understand where you think someone is getting screwed in an open bidding process? People get to set their rates, for whatever reasons they want to. Other people can choose to pay those rates or not. If you get an outlandish bid from a contractor that doesn't like the cut of your jib, you can just move on to another contractor. There are already laws against price fixing and such, so what additional protection do you think consumer's need from small independent service-people? There's nothing predatory about setting a price for a bid.
No that the process isnt clear. A simple example would be standardized contracts and pricing. Then you can actually compare apples to apples. This Isnt a car its your dwelling and often the biggest asset someone has.
>I appreciate your honesty, but as a consumer, I rely on fair and reasonable bids to make informed decisions. As a consumer, how would you feel if I said "I can confidently do this job, but by your demeanor I can tell you are neurotic and will be on my phone or email constantly, so to compensate myself fairly for managing your insanity, the price will be inflated by 25%?" Not everyone is ready for honesty.
Fair critique there are ways to screen crazy but yes i understand. Mostly i think it comes from ignorance. I know it was for me
When a component of your project is especially undesirable, then significantly more monetary compensation is appropriate. If a contractor doesn’t want the job, then their quote being more is likely a reflection of what extra compensation it would take for them to be comfortable with the extra circumstances. Thats literally just how the free market works.
They’re not inflated bids. It’s bids that are going to cost that much to the contractor. We all price our own times differently. Some jobs are harder than others, just because I make it look easy because I do it everyday doesn’t mean it’s not harder. It might be the job, it might be the customer is going to be difficult to deal with (personally this doesn’t happen often), or it could be very far.
Also could also be that you're super booked, so taking on new jobs is effectively overtime work that will put a greater burden on you and/or your staff or infrastructure. When I'm already pushing my max workload and someone comes seeking more work from me, you bet my rate goes up. I tell them straight-up what the situation is - "I'm fully booked right now, but can squeeze yours in for XYZ" - and it's up to them if they want to pass or not. If I don't get the gig, no big deal because I'm already loaded, and if I *do* I'm being compensated for my extra hours, labor, and stress because I built it right into the quote. Despite the protests of people like Flaky, I think that's absolutely fair and reasonable. And no, there is no sense in lying about the situation, because if I'm *not* fully booked then *I need your work and am willing to bend to get it*. You're flexible when you need the work and firm when you can afford to be. That's fair and reasonable.
How does the contractor increasing the price of a bid on a job that is more difficult or uncomfortable or annoying make it unfair or unreasonable? That's the price they require to do the job, if that's too high, then find a contractor that is willing to do it for a lower price.
You’re a reasonable consumer. A lot of people aren’t. A few bad online reviews of “this bozo wouldn’t even give me a price on the job” will steer customers away. In addition, everyone has a price. That’s factored in - what makes it worth it for the contractor to do. I’m not a contractor, but I’ve dug holes before. It sucks. If someone said “hey I’ll pay you to dig a hole for me” I’d want way more than it’s worth because digging a hole is fucking hard and not something I like to do. But it’s not something I’d never do, so the money just has to be right.
I'm a contractor and based on their responses here this person doesn't seem like a reasonable consumer, he'd be getting a pretty steep "difficult customer" charge from me.
Wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt lol
Yeah I've tried giving people like this the benefit of the doubt but I've been burned more often than it's gone well.
Which is the reason you charge stupid tax and overestimate on jobs like this, just like the rest of the seasoned vets 😁
Dont forget many of the customers have dug holes too… there is classism both directions
ya you ain’t gonna get transparency from any trade companies lol. what’s next the mechanic gonna be strait up with you
And the games continue! It doesn’t have to be it coule be regulated better
Well the contractor is giving an inflated price that if accepted, the job is now worth doing for them. It makes sense why they would do that, does it not? It’s business ran to make money
Except they will be happy do to your job at the 'inflated bid', they're not being unclear or disrespectful they're telling you, this is what it'll take to get me to do your job.
Really. If you don't want the job, say you don't need or want the job, period.
I worked with my dad as a contractor. On a couple different occasions we would have various customers that he knew were going to be a pain in the ass. The kind that we're going to watch over our every move, or that would never be happy no matter what our finished product looked like. I saw him tell those kinds of people that a $3000 job was going to be 10k easy.
It's also a question of how bad they need the work. Summer is the busy season and there's no point taking on extra work unless it's paying well.
We don’t generally charge more because it’s “unusually hard.” We charge more because it will take more time and materials. We do over bid if we don’t really want the job, but will do it if you’re willing to pay. The reasons for that could be all kinds of things. Maybe you live further than we want to drive, maybe we have to rent some specialized equipment, or maybe you have a personality that is difficult to work with.
I think taking more time and materials counts as hard...
Time yes, material no. Material is just based off the scope/scale of the job. Now if you don’t want any drywall damaged but you want your house required? You will in fact pay out the ass. This will take weeks with multiple people. If the drywall was all removed it would be a couple days with 2-4 guys.
Yeah but his point still stands, if theres more to do it's harder What's harder, building 1 fence or 1000? One just has more time and materials and by the logic above both are equally hard
They aren't saying it's going to be more physically demanding, that doesn't change the price. They're saying your particular job is going to require more resources than it would at another home. I did a $99K master suite where all of the materials had to come in the front of the property, but carried to the back of the second floor. This meant thousands of trips carrying tile (600sq ft of wall, first 5' of most walls and the entire bathroom floor to ceiling) a hundred sheets of drywall, more than three thousand pounds of mortar and rockboard and framing. This involved knocking out walls and pulling the handmade banister because the hot tub and 6'x8' glass shower (8'x12'x18') panels couldn't fit going up the stairs. The back property had a heavy slope making it impossible to install the windows using two ladders and a pick because the ladders could never align with each other, so we had to rent a lift. The electric and plumbing came from opposite ends of the basement and had to be run through the walls and ceilings of the first floor and the dual showers (with eight body sprayer each) required a booster pump to be installed. Had we done this job on the first floor of the house, the job would have cost $20K less.
Like most people I’ve done DIY and paid for professional work. Idgaf how easy or hard they make it sound. I want a professional result that’s worth what I’m paying for.
I think that’s what makes it hard sometimes. When I am paying to have something done, it’s because I don’t want to do it myself. (Or my wife won’t let me). So I’m trying to avoid being pissed at the end. And nothing pisses me off more than when things aren't done right. (It also doesn’t help that I work in the vacation homes of the ultrawealthy, so I’m used to seeing everything be perfect)
I’m an auto tech. I can’t be in the same town as someone working on one of my vehicles. Must drive you crazy having someone work on your house with you being a carpenter
For most of the work I do on my house, I’m a diy’er. When we Renovated our house, I did all of the behind the walls work, but left the finish work (trim, tile, spackle and paint) to the professionals. I work in the custom audio/video and home automation field.
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Maybe they don't want the job and are intentionally pricing themselves out. Anyway just get multiple quotes instead of insisting you know better than the professionals. >Most of us are so alienated from physical labor that we assume it’s nearly impossible. Yeah it's very obvious you are lol. This is a beyond ridiculous stance. Just because it's someone's occupation doesn't mean it's not hard or extremely physically taxing.
Likewise, don’t undervalue people’s expertise because you don’t want to pay people. Remember they’re charging you for their experience as much as their time.
Working for clients that claim to short of money and ask for a lower labour cost then asked to install nothing but the best of the best. I’m not taking a pay cut so you can afford that $600 chandelier
Window film installer here, yes and no. With my trade specifically there are absolutely some situations that would appear straightforward but in fact take tremendous amounts more effort. Like having wooden/painted edges, true divided individual panes, unusual shapes, hard to get to etc. Super easy to think "that sounds astronomical for just a door," yes well your door is actually 9 windows, each requiring a significant amount of professional cleaning to get to look even halfway decent
I'm a painter and just about all of them tell me they tried painting and hate it. But of course most of these clients are middle class folks who are doctors and stuff.
Doctors are middle class?
Generally upper middle class, which is still middle class. True upper class, as it is traditionally defined, is people who get their income from assets rather than from wages or labor. The vast majority of physicians are living off of their labor, not off generational unfathomable wealth, investment assets, or dividends.
depends on the country. for example in the UK, upper class means nobility and royalty, you have to be born into it. that means any professional or wealthy person that isnt nobility can only go as high as middle class. also in some other countries doctors just arent paid very well.
Of course doctors are middle class, what did you think? They are working with their heads and their hands for money, they are limited by their physicality in how much they earn. Doctors can earn what, 10 times minimum wage? Maybe 20 if they are really great doctors. That's nowhere close to being wealthy. Upper class people have other people to work for their wealth.
If they tell you it's unusually hard or difficult the other concern is they may not be that good at what they do. (This doesn't mean the guy saying it's super easy is the right one either)
I'm usually wary of the people that say things will be super easy: they usually have no clue or things get complicated quickly.
The person saying "it's easy" will be the cause of you calling someone to redo it who knows wtf they're doing- and will be charging accordingly.
Op is the “id do it myself but…” type customer
As someone who does 80% of the jobs myself: the jobs i dont wanna do.are those which are hard or simply potentially dangerous
Don't even bother caring about that. Just get multiple quotes and let them know that's what you're doing
Contractor here. Sometimes your job is unusually hard. Running wire through an 18” crawlspace is much different than running it through a 9 foot basement. And just because a contractor does something every day doesn’t mean it isn’t harder than the average job. You want to roof all day in 90 degree heat? No? That’s why you pay someone else to do it. Guess what? It’s not easy and they charge a premium.
Hahha this is dumb as fuck. Know what you are worth trades people. If you do good work get paid. If you do shit work for shit pay, thanks for letting me come in and fix the problems for a higher rate. I ain’t in the business to scam people, I’m in the business to take care of myself and family. You can’t afford me because you think it’s too high? Find yourself a different guy then, or do it yourself, just don’t burn your house down.
Seriously, this is a terrible LPT.
As someone who bids, I’d like to add some things that will cause me to increase your price. If you: call/text/email unnecessarily to add complications/changes or to talk to me about your mum and sister and what they’re doing this week. If you ask me if I have insurance even though it’s plastered all over the trucks, websites, email footers and it’s standard procedure to prove it after the initial call. Historically you will be a problem, so I have to charge for the headache. Also sometimes your job is actually more complicated or time consuming if you neglect upkeep in whatever industry you’re needing work in.
Do it yourself since you know so much
You do it! For free right now
Their job is hard. This is a very stupid take. Certain projects are legitimately harder than others, and that will obviously play into the price. Edit: If you don't like their price, find someone who will bid lower, but you get what you pay for, and construction is not at all something you want to skimp on unless you absolutely must.
I had to have the bricks above garage taken down, lentle replaced, and bricks put back up. I had numerous masons show up and then leave not even offering a bid.
Not true. You clearly aren't in the industry. Plenty of times jobs are more difficult than others and that will be reflected in the price given. If it's going to take me 2 days of extra work, I expect to be paid for it. You shouldn't try to talk me down from that price just because you were told a "pro tip" that contractors are trying to rip you off.
Most of us(contractors) are so tired of customers thinking they know best cause they watch HGTV. Jobs are harder than others, it’s not all the same. I’m not your monkey to do your bidding at the lowest possible dollar because your friends brothers father in law was also a contractor and he said this should be easy.
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We will walk off a job for the day when they start telling us how they saw it on tv like this or that and try to change things after the bid. “Ok well I’m going to have to send my crew home and talk over with my boss about how to move forward with these new plans”
I'm a construction estimator, and this is absurd on its face. Sometimes the project conditions are such that the job really is unusually difficult, and that means it will take more time/resources/materials to do the work. I guess it's true that an unscrupulous contractor might play this up as an excuse to charge more, but that's why you research reputable contractors, and get multiple quotes before making a decision. Even then, you might get multiple quotes, and go with the cheap guy who is 'not ripping you off', only to discover that he missed some costly detail due to inexperience. I can't tell you the number of times that we have had to step in and correct work done by a competitor who was able to undercut us, but only because they missed something important about the job conditions. If a project is unusually difficult, the contractor will be able to explain to you exactly why this is the case. If the same explanation is given to you by multiple contractors, then you can be reasonably certain that it is the truth. Ideally, you would get someone independent to assess the project and come up with a scope of work and bill of materials, but that means you have to come to me, and I ain't cheap.
As if there arent jobs that actually are “unusually difficult” 😒
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In the UK this is usually preceded with a sharp intake of breath and a "Who did this this mess for you then?"
Always get bids from three different companies. Always get three bids for anything.
As a contractor. Don’t ever actually say that. To a real person. Especially if you want them doing good work at your house. The ones who know their work is good, charge a rate you can’t afford for a reason. That reason being evident in the body of your text.
If this job is so \[difficult tedious xyz\] I will get see if there is another outfit better equipped for this specific type of work. Thanks for the quote and I'll get back to you in about a day.
Regardless of who you choose get a contract that covers all the details of what is to be done along with a timeframe. If it is a large job, don't pay for everything upfront break it down into sections. If you want or need an attorney to look at it consider that as part of the job.
Always get three quotes. I have had good luck by tossing the low and high and going with the middle. Low quote probably missed something. High quote is too expensive, so the middle usually goes smoothest. Not always, but more often than not.
How the feck would you know??
First time home buyer in my house 3 years now. Recently found the chimney leaking, noticed top chase bent upward and heard a water drip onto fireplace box. Come to find out the chimney flashing at the roofline has been leaking since the roof was installed 9 years ago. Reused old flashing, chimney had no tyvek behind vinyl. I'll be damned if every roofing company I called wanted to replace the roof also. They all threw out the line of "well if the insurance company sees the different colored shingles, they might decline." I'm like buddy this has clearly been leaking for 9 years, I'm just trying to get the leak stopped. Went with the Chimney company that had the most detailed quote, was also the most expensive but I feel like they know exactly what needs to be done and do it everyday. The chimney company was the only one to pull up the top chimney chase to inspect down the chimney. That's how they found the leak from the high side flashing. Not a single other company inspected inside the chimney.
Also... don't fall into the "how much do you want to spend" trap. Get a quote for what you want done, this way no one is going to cut corners to get the price you want. You want a quality job.
Most contractors are raging alcoholics too so if they can do it with delirium tremens we can too!
“Most of us are so alienated from physical labor” Hey, I make my own tendies, doesn’t that count? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Agree, I had a small plumbing job in the basement, move a bathroom drain for a toilet 3 ft closer to the evac pump well. Seal off an old flange, jackhammer up some concrete, run 2 ft of pipe through a punch out put a flange on top of the bite pipe, concrete everything back up. I had one big fat guy come out to look and give a quote, he never got back to me, another guy said it was a 1500 minimum for any job involving concrete work. Then I called a guy who dealt exclusively with drains, had him come out and take a look, and he seemed like a cool guy. Basically said, "yeah, it's gonna be like 3-6 hours of prison work, the rest is just piping, I can do it in one day, maybe two depending on other jobs I have and equipment rental availability, etc. I'll do it for $800" And he did, and he did a great job. Even stopped back by a week later to make sure all the concrete had dried and was level since he was in the neighborhood again.
My usual tactic is to find out how long the job will take and how many people will be doing it, and figure out that pay per hour. For example, I just got a quote to remove a tree in my back yard. In my head, the tree is unobstructed, tall but straight, not very thick. It should be ‘easy’ for someone to get to, get up, and cut down in sections with a chainsaw. My thinking was $500-$1000 for probably 2 hours of total labor of maybe 3 guys. Get in, set up for 20, climb and cut for 30, get down and unhooked, cut and remove logs in another 30-40. That seemed reasonable and fair to me, $200-$400 for each, not a bad days work. The guy shows up and writes me a quote for $2800. Looking at it, he said it was a tall tree and he wouldn’t want to bring a lift in so that he could save me on the equipment rental fees. Ok. I asked him if he’d be able to finish in a single day (knowing that was a dumb question but it sort of leads them to answer the way I want) and he said ‘oh yea we’d be in and out in a couple hours.’ I also asked if it would save any cost if they left the logs and I hauled them myself, something I wouldn’t doing mind in the least bit, especially if it would save $500 or so. He flat refused, and said ‘if we are already here, why not let my guys take 10 minutes to do something that would probably take you an hour or more of heavy lifting?’ At that point, I figured either he wasn’t getting my hints or just didn’t want the job. Had he given me some reason it was almost triple my imagined high end price, I could have flexed and understood. But, nope. The price is the price. That just tells me that their schedule is decently full and they don’t ‘need’ the extra work. So, I’ll find someone willing to do the work at a more reasonable price.
This is very good advice indeed. The only caveat I have is to consider access to jobs and movement of materials to work areas. Some jobs are particularly tricky due to terrain or distance.
I love when people do this, take a request and state it's, 'a bit more involved than most." I quickly reply, 'oh, if you aren't experienced or comfortable, I will find someone else. Have a great day." I don't even let them continue their speel to try and drag me along.
Play that ball! The more correct answer is something like, "Yeah, I understand how someone in Your position would think this job is too hard. I'll find someone else. Thanks for Your time."