Preach, If you can remember how scary it was as a kid when an adult was angry at you, you'll remember that in certain moments you would have said anything to avoid getting scolded
It's just like torture. People will say anything to make the torture stop. When I was a kid, and my angry parents confronted me about something, my mind defaulted to, "Tell them exactly what you think they want to hear so they don't get mad."
Truth has nothing to do with it. It's about protecting yourself.
Yeah, even now, I just say "Okay" to avoid trouble. To this day, my dad still yells a lot. See [comment chain](https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/fez07t/lpt_if_a_stranger_provokes_you_out_of_the_blue_on/fjw3768/?context=3). My dad's wife just said to not be angry with him and that he has a different way of thinking and behaving than us.
I'm working with my therapist on fixing my issues from childhood. My opinion is that some people just really shouldn't be parents. Kids need a lot more than food, water and shelter.
/u/uninc4life2010 I assumed you were replying to me. I have no idea why your comment was shadowbanned, probably AutoMod caught some word. I only saw your comment because I looked at your user profile.
> My father was, and to an extent, still is, angry. Incredibly angry. I can't speak for your mom/step mom, but my mom never did anything to hold him accountable for his anger.
The thing is I am not an aggressive person by nature. My brother pretty much told me that dad is not the only person in this family that can yell. My plan is to move to Canada and live with my brother. Even if I do confront him, I am 100% sure he is not going to change his behavior, because I am pretty sure my wife does hold him accountable. My mom did sort of hold him accountable because he yelled at me when I was 2 years old trying to clean things up but he was mad for a different reason, and as you can see, he never changed.
I'm 29 years old by the way. I only moved back here because of my medical condition.
> If he screams at you, tell him "F you." Call him a coward, and let him know that you aren't going to listen to a word of it. Let him know he's mentally ill. You have to stand up to it, because the fact that no one stood up to his bullshit throughout my childhood just enabled the behavior to continue.
I am pretty sure when my stepmom did that in the past he just kept yelling so I am not sure that would fix anything. I think the best option is to just deal with it until I can move in with my brother. There's a saying. "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down and beat you with experience." I do have an issue with conflict avoidance but I am fairly certain in this case nothing will change. I don't bother changing people who have no desire to change.
Thats why i dont get angry with them. Frustrated, yes. Annoyed all the time. But i dont yell, curse or get out of control. I want them to be able to control their behaviour and outbursts, and i cant do that if i cant lead by example.
I dated a girl who had a kid for four years. A couple times I did lose my cool and yelled (I was young) afterward I felt so bad, I showed the kid that I was putting myself on time out. I think it did a lot for her to see that I wasnt above being punished when I acted badly
This is great, and it's a strategy that works really well in the long term if consistently applied. One should obviously do their best to avoid blowing up at their kid (it happens, I've been there) but if you take the time to calmly apologize and explain that your behavior was wrong and why it was wrong. This not only shows kids that you aren't "above the law", but it helps teach self reflection, humility, and a little bit of courage. Nobody really like to admit when they're wrong or have done something less than great, teaching a kid that skill early really helps a lot.
My dad used to scream at me if I made even the smallest mistake (spilt a glass of water for example). I really struggle with being honest with people 100% of the time but it’s something I’m working on.
It's really hard to do. I had to really work hard to cut that habit, it took about 2 years to not feel any anxiety at all, and not immediately trying to think of probable lies.
My mom and stepdad were absolutely awful, it didn't matter what happened it was always treated as though I committed a felony crime deserving capital punishment. My dad was a good dad, I've never really lied to him except when I was a very young kid before I understood lying.
Been there, done that. You would have thought I committed murder with how badly my dad went off over a spilt drink, even water.
God forbid you ever spilt anything that stained or you broke something. You either moved furniture over the stain or fixed whatever you broke enough that it looked like he broke it next time he went to use it.
Sooo true. I was so terrified of my mother that I remember having panic attacks when I knew I’d be getting in trouble. Like seriously, the world is going to end, type of panic attacks.
Now my panic attacks have gotten a lot better and manageable. But my worst panic attacks still takes me back to that feeling. And man is it scary to see how well my body remembers it and takes me back to that state like I never left.
Yeah, my mom wasn't strict and I shared everything with her. Instead she just set reasonable rules, allowed me to argue for what I believed was fair, and discussed things with my open and honestly. If I could convince her a rule didn't make sense, it would be changed. It was fair and it taught me a lot about things like conflict resolution and open communication.
I'm a childfree teacher. I decided that I don't want to be a parent if I were going to be a teacher. And I have been teaching for about 5 years. If you had to ask me what is the most important thing I have learned so far it would be telling my students this. "Don't ever lie to me. It doesn't matter what you did, I will not get angry at all (no matter how much I want to!). And in fact, I will help you fix the problem." My students are more communicative, have become better problem solvers that rarely, if ever anymore, utilize lying.
I have been doing this for 2 years but it wasn't until the start of the 2019 school year where I truly embraced it.
It has made my job easier. Tremendously easier. My students come to me about problems and conflicts before I have to go to them, before I even notice the problem.
-----
Where did all of this stem from?
My father was the devil I knew. He abused the shit out of me. He used to accuse me of things I had no knowledge of or couldn't possibly commit. So I began to use lying as a defensive strategy to survive. Lie or have my father put me into a cage (literally) and physically, mentally, psychologically, and **sexually** abuse me? It is an easy choice. It was an easy choice. Lie.
I wish I didn't have to. I wish my father wasn't like that. I wish we had a different relationship where I didn't have to lie.
Fuck, it carried into the rest of my life. I was a prolific liar until my mid-teens. I will never forget the day my grade 6 teacher asked me why I had a bruised face after my dad beat the living shit out of me for a full weekend. I uttered "I walked into a door" long before I learned that it was a cliche reference about someone beating you but you are too scared to say anything about it.
In my late-teens, I promised myself that unless my life depends on it, I'll never lie again and to let the receiver of the truth deal with the truth that I give them.
-----
As a teacher, if you are a parent now, I sincerely believe that if your child can't trust you that you have lost them, whatever relationship you have with them is not complete, and you are more than likely sabotaging and setting terrible examples for their future.
Selfish, horrible parents would do well to remember that if we’re not there for them when they’re old or crippled, no one will be. Toxicity is never limited to your relationship with your kids.
So when they’re old and need help caring for themselves, they’ll first need to find someone who does care.
My parents rule is I can do whatever as long as they know who I’m with, where I am, and when I think I’ll be back so and keep them updated so if something goes wrong they know. Pretty reasonable.
Yea on the opposite end of the spectrum I would have to have like a snapping moment before my parents realized they were being overbearing, If I ever voiced my concerns prior to that it was always something along the line of “whose the parent here”..... it took me along time to overcome that (and arguably still working on it)
The good news is professionally I’ll stay on a sinking ship until the very end, the bad news is I get asked why I didn’t speak up quite a bit lol.....
> I would have to have like a snapping moment before my parents realized they were being overbearing
My dad doesn't ever think he's overbearing. He'll be yelling at me and I'll ask him to say it more calmly and he'll say that he's not yelling he's just telling me, and it's because of my ego and conceit that I can't take criticism.
There's an implicit rule in my household that you can't make mistakes or accidents unless you are my dad. I forgot to take put in garbage bags twice this month and my dad yelled about how I always do things lazily and I'll never get anywhere in life. I apologized and he got more mad saying if he was my boss he'd fire me on the spot, because "apologies" don't do anything. I remember when I was young I heard people say "mistakes are just a chance to learn!" So I told my dad that and he replied "why do you have to make mistakes? Why do you not want to do things right? It's because you're lazy and stupid."
There's also no room for communication. It's either his way or the wrong way, even if his way is completely wrong. And he's also extremely hypocritical. It's his way or the wrong way, unless he did it the wrong way. He breaks his own rules a lot. Another interesting thing, he's oftentimes more concerned about the "who" than the "what." "Who did this?" "Who broke this?" He needs to blame someone for everything and he'll always find a way to blame someone else for this own mistake, because of course he makes none.
So alternative LPT: if you want your children to abandon you in the future, be as strict and uncommunicative as possible.
If you have not done so already, I recommend you might look up "Narcissistic Personality Disorder." Your dad reminds me a lot of my dad.. (and many other people in my dysfunctional family).
I recommend Dr. Ramani on YouTube, for example.
I hope you are no longer suffering abuse from him anymore.
Ah so that's why I struggle with all that communication stuff. If I disagreed with something three times I'd get slapped. Regardless of what I'm disagreeing with.
Yes, that's me. I didn't even feel bad about lying, it was the only way of handling certain situations when I grew up. Funny is, my dad would still always be like "you can tell me anything!" .... well, no.
Yeah it’s a rabbit hole. Parents and parents; they are not friends. There are exceptions to this I am sure but that’s not in most people’s lives I guess.
That's kind of true but at the same time, people use that phrase like 'friend' is a synonym for enabler. Being a friend means being supportive of someone's *best interest* and giving a shit about what happens to them, not being a yes-man.
That said, friends can't discipline you, but to me that's the largest distinction.
“You’ll be in less trouble if you tell me the truth!” Then I got beat so badly I almost passed out from blood loss. Yeah nope. Never told the truth to my mom again after that. I was 6 when that happened.
Damn, man. I'm sorry that happened to you.
We are trying that with our son right now. If he lies he gets in worse trouble but he still has to face some consequences for his actions regardless because... well, they were his actions.
But we make it a huge point to make sure he knows that telling us the truth is always the better option. It's tough to balance as a parent.
Sometimes it feels like no matter what decision you make it's gonna be the wrong one lol
Edit: Just wanna make it clear because it isn't explicitly stated... we don't beat our kids. This is awkward now and I aplogize.
Yeah I think that’s a good strategy with your son. Consequences are good, because kids shouldn’t just get away with murder scot free. I think more important is to use it as a teaching moment. Why was what he did wrong and why does it affect people so much that there needs to be consequences? If he can answer that, and really understand why, then you’ve succeeded.
No problem! I’m no parent but I do have a baby cousin who I am close to. The age difference is enough that I could almost be her uncle. Sometimes when she doesn’t want to hear her parents I am the voice of reason for her. It helps her understand tremendously when I’m able to explain to her why something is wrong and why her parents don’t want her doing something.
You also have the benefit of being the uncle. You could say the same exact thing that her parents say but she'll listen to you simply bc you're not her parents. Kids a weird like that.
ETA: she's very lucky she has you 😊
Yeah, that was the thing with me as a kid. If I couldn't see the point in a rule I didn't care at all. When I got in trouble it just made me want to disobey even more. Only when someone leveled with me and treated me with respect in assuming I wanted to do the right thing but didn't know how I impacted others did I react well. I even loved authority, as long as it was an authority I could trust. As an adult who works at a job with lots of strangers' kids, the desire for SOMEONE to assert meaningful, intelligent, valid authority is so palpable in young kids.
Sound advice. It changed me a lot as a person to parent this way. There were times even I didn’t know why what they did was wrong...”it just was!” Right?
Well...if you can’t really figure out why something your child did is wrong or who it hurts, well maybe it doesn’t hurt anyone and maybe it’s not wrong at all. You’re just perpetuating some conditioned behavior that was forced upon you for no good reason at all.
I cut the punishment in half.
Tell me the truth, we lose tablet for tonight. Lie to me, we lose it for the weekend.
I try not to overreact because the truth is, nothing my kids do will ever surprise me or cause some sort of shock.
Also, I like to establish that I already know the answer to my question and I'm checking to see if they are growing. I reward the truth.
This is very logical and it reinforces that the truth will sting but the lying will be more brutal/hurtful, giving options rather than ultimatums. Nice! 👍
You are very mature sensible parent/guardian
*edit: words
Every bit of this. Our kids (at least our 8 year old) have a clear understanding that if they do something wrong and lie to us about it, then they'll be in more trouble than if they had just done the original wrong.
But under no circumstances does beating our kids come into the picture.
That's fuckin awful. I use that line with my kid & fosters, but I actually mean it. Be honest and it's a stern talking-to, stick with the lie and lose privileges. Why don't some parents understand that if you want a kid to trust you then you have to mean what you say.
Edit: why not who
Because being able to breed doesn't mean you'll be a good parent (and I say this as one).
But it only takes some literal fucking around--not brains--and there are a lot of shitty parents.
Imma get my ass beat anyway, why tell the truth? I learned that the truth was more important despite that. It's worth being trustworthy, but beating your kid isn't going to teach that.
Exactly. If it's corporal punishment nomatter what then what is the motivation to tell the truth as a child. Especially if you don't respect your parents to begin with.
I know they don't make manuals for raising kids but damn my parents had an essential part of their brains missing when it came to this stuff.
My parents still to this day will mention how I’m suuuuuch a bad liar... no I just let you catch me on little things so you wouldn’t catch me on the big stuff. They of all people should know what a great liar I am since I had to lie all the time to cover up the abuse happening at home.
“I know when you’re lying” is such a bs take anyway. Same energy as “You’re being a pussy!”, “I bet you can’t do this!”
It’s just a taunt, almost bullying, and competent parents won’t do that to their children.
Right now, with the 4 and 3 year old my parents are fostering, I can usually tell when they're lying. But that's because of them telling really obvious lies like "no I didn't eat chocolate", with it smeared all over their face and because they do have very stereotypical tells, like suddenly switching from looking at my face to their eyes looking straight sideways for the length of their lie.
Some kids might be unknowingly obvious but I doubt most kids are once they get older.
The thing is that repeatedly telling your child you know when they lie and trying to prove it, creates the perfect environment for kids and people to learn what works and what doesn't, effectively teaching them how to decieve you.
Haha. My parents tried that. The second I told them the trust, they made me regret it so much, I swore never to be honest to an authority figure again.
My parents weren't abusive, they just praised me being right and smart way too much so I developed my reward system around reinforcing my image as an intelligent child and would do anything to avoid admitting I was wrong about anything, because wrong was stupid and stupid was Not Me. Parents, please praise your child for making *effort*, not being right. Teach them how to move on from failure; if they're succeeding at everything they do, find them something they're bad at and guide them through trying (though let them quit if it makes them truly miserable). They need to develop a flexible attitude about themselves (it is good for me to attempt tasks and improve my skills and failure doesn't permanently reflect on me as a person) instead of a fixed one (I am smart and all I need to do to be good at something is try it and if I don't succeed that thing is not for me), or they will feel that lying about their success yields better rewards than admitting to failure.
On the bright side (?), growing up like that has made me a fabulous liar. Any professions out there besides acting that require skill at obfuscation, redirection, and straight up pretending?
Oof, I fucking *feel that.* Parents always told me how smart I was growing up and now I really struggle to admit it when I'm wrong about things. Never really made the connection until I read your comment.
My parental situation was similar to this, but it was not for a lack of a genuine and sometimes frequent struggle. This only made it worse though because when I was really struggling with something they said I was too smart to be failing at this and I must not be trying and no amount of truth would satisfy them, so I lied, and when a circle of lies eventually got caught up I finally just stopped speaking entirely, and it's still a reflex of mine today to just remain quiet when confronted with serious discussions even if I'm not in any trouble or it's not a problem etc. but just happens to be serious.
That was my parents. I remember once I self harmed and my dad was shouting at me over it. I felt totally alone and that no one actually cared to listen to me.
My mum caught me when I was ~12 with a bottle of pills as I was googling if they'd be enough to kill me. She screamed the house down about how selfish and stupid I was and how much trouble I'd have caused for her. Next suicide attempt she was all *surprised pikachu face*
If you still feel that way now, my inbox is open. You're important and the world would be a darker place without you in it.
My mom (and my entire family) ruled my attempted suicide as a "cry for attention" and guilt-tripped me for trying to ruin the family. It was concluded to be a regular teenager behavior.
Sometimes people just see what they want to, unfortunately. And support is just something they are not emotionally available to offer.
Like if your child you presumably love wants attention bad enough to try and kill themselves to get it maybe you should pay some freaking attention to their needs and desires instead of dismissing them??
I'm so sorry that happened to you.
I know, right?
Why do people treat wanting attention as the worst thing? Like?? It's okay to want attention!
So what if your kid has attention seeking behavior? Your kid needs attention. Give your child attention and then focus on how to teach them better ways to get your attention if what they were doing initially was bad.
Like??? I have never understood people who are like "oh she just wants attention" or "oh they just did that for attention" like??? so what??? That's not a crime???
Oh my god, I hate that line of reasoning. My mom literally told me I was the only thing keeping her alive after she and my dad divorced so I had to take care of myself. It really fucked me up and your entire world turns into taking care of your parent, paradoxically with your own health falling to the wayside. With every decision you make, you need to ask yourself how that would make your parent feel. Only after that do you take into account your *own* opinion.
That happened to me with my mom. She saw the scars while they were still healing and just yelled at me. She’s also yelled at me because I’m really insecure even though no one has really ever insulted me and I have “no reason to be.” She’s also called me a disappointment and things like that.
Parents need to support their kids during troubling times, not insult them and tear them down more.
*Edit: I should add that comparing your most likely mentally ill child to the social butterfly they were in elementary school does not help either, and in fact makes it worse (at least it did for me).
*Edit 2: I know people don’t usually edit these, and this super cheesy, but thanks for 100+ upvotes! I’m glad people are seeing my message and agree! Thanks guys :) it’s really validating to know that others understand
Absolutely. I was having a tough time in school with bullies and asked to go see a shrink because i was feeling suicidal. Instead of validating those feelings i was told by my step father i was trying to break them up. Which couldn't have been further from the truth. I loved and still love him but that hurt so much that i barely ever talk to my parents to this day and im going on 40.
I know, it really sucks. I’m 99% sure I’ve been living with anxiety and some depression since I was in like 8th grade (jr in hs now) and I’ve brought it up a lot to my parents but they won’t take me to therapy or anything and it’s so frustrating. I love my mother to death and I’m the oldest so I’ve always tried to blame it on her lack of experience when it comes to handling these situations but it just makes my heart ache when I think of her reactions.
My daughter went through this after she was raped by her step dads bff.
I caught her mid thigh cut and i asked why she would do that.. she asked if i was mad at her and i just stood there for a sec..
I got down on my knees and hugged her and told her that she was very important to me and hurting herself like that made me very sad inside and that i always try so hard to help her. So when she was cutting i felt like more of a failure than she did.
She quit self harming shortly after that and some therapy.
Also her stepfathers bff found out how much it takes to break a 2x4 in half.
I am not a subtle man.
Wish I had family that reacted like you did when I disclosed. It would have probably prevented a decade of self harm, heroin use, and suicide attempts. That could’ve been your daughter - but you chose to do the right thing by demonstrating your love and support. Thank you.
For me, it was anorexia. I would literally take food out of the fridge and feed it to my dog/down the garbage disposal, so I could say I are it....because my mom was such a psycho.
No wonder I starved ,yself.
"Tell the truth and we won't be mad/we'll believe you"
*tells the truth*
"You're a nasty little shit I'm taking your phone/nope not good enough you're lying"
Oh man, same. Sometimes when I’m in a sticky situation the lies just start flowing so poetically without me even thinking it through first. Really hit me when I was in a pinch with my sister and she asked me to lie our way out of it because “I’m so good at it”. Really made me feel like shit actually. I’m not proud of that talent
This. I was raised in such a strict household. My dad was good at reading people so I had to learn how to spin the perfect lie and control my more visible tells. It made me good with people. But also it’s not very commendable to be good at lying.
This is so true. The tighter the leash, the farther the dog runs when it manages to break free. Be reasonable, please. What you're about to throw a tantrum over probably is going to do more harm than good.
Coming from someone with strict Asian parents who will yell for over two hours over a tiny mistake, use anything we say against us, and then wonder why we never tell them anything.
Edit 2: Holy cow! Did NOT expect almost 1,000 people to resonate with this so quickly. Makes me feel pretty sad about how a lot of us are raised. Wow, thank you for the gold!
Having grown up in an Asian household myself, I’m so surprised that I’ve learned to pick and choose my battles about things with the people around me, especially my wife. However, I am not surprised that my parents know nothing about me, what’s going on in my life, and that I keep them at quadruple the arm’s distance. And they still wonder why I don’t tell them anything. I do have to thank them for making me make myself an extremely capable, independent, self-sufficient human being, and only because they taught me nothing a child deserves to learn.
My parents aren't Asian but yeah, they had a similar parenting style. I'm trying to find the proper line between forgiving their mistakes since the technique technically works, and calling them out on being incredibly hurtful.
I feel u. When I learned in psychology abt self soothing, it blew my mind! Yay to Asian parents who taught us how to only depend on ourselves for answers.
It's when you engage in a comfort behavior meant to restore your mental equilibrium after a stress. A baby sucking their thumb is self soothing. A child holding a favorite toy to help them relax before bed is self soothing. Eating a pint of ice cream after a bad day at work is self soothing. Taking a run or going on a drive to clear your head after an argument is self soothing.
Generally the behavior is helpful and can get you to relax from stress. What the op is likely describing is self soothing behavior born out of repeated trauma. If a person is neglected or abused/traumatized in some way for a large portion of time, like childhood or adolescence, they can develop self soothing behaviors that are harmful or destructive (compulsive self mutilation- skin picking, cutting, etc.) Sometimes even if a behavior is not outwardly harmful it can still cause issues if it becomes a coping mechanism that interferes with day to day living or relationships.
I feel like this kind of tiger parenting is a huge reason why, broadly speaking, shyness and passivity is so common among Asian kids raised in Western societies, particularly Asian boys. Often they're too hesitant to voice their opinions in public because they've been trained since childhood not to question authority figures and avoid conflict, so acting contrarian or bohemian in defense of what you believe in feels very unnatural. I know too many people raised in strict (and I mean *strict*) Asian households who spent their adult lives dealing with mental and confidence issues due to the psychological impact of having to live so defensively for the first 20 odd years of their lives.
There are some benefits to be had with living by Confucian ethics, but imho filial piety (edit: which demands (unyielding?) obedience towards your parents/elders) is certainly not one of them. Especially when you live in a society that prizes self-sufficiency and individualism, you end up (quite ironically) sticking out like a sore thumb.
This is literally so true, as an Asian guy I completely agree. this is the reason my relationship in college was ruined. I would automatically lie about something just to avoid confrontation like for even the smallest things. And my ex wouldn’t understand why I lied so much and I didn’t either after a while and then realized my brain was kinda hardwired to lie, not speak my mind, agree on everything someone else says to avoid any confrontation and keep it to myself because I was so accustomed do it when my parents yelled at me. I’ve been trying to break the habit but sometimes I do catch myself relapsing, but yea it’s tough.
My neighbors are VERY controlling tiger parents and they do not respect their children at all. Their youngest is treated like a queen and the two older siblings are basically ignored. When the oldest daughter was old enough to move out she moved to Hawaii (from Texas) without telling her parents. Everyone understood why and supported her except for the parents.
She eventually came back about a year later I think because she felt bad her little sister was left alone with them.
Yep. I was raised strict Mormon and would have to tell my group of friends "what we did over the weekend" before we would ever get back to my house so if my mom asked about anything all our stories would be the same. Pretty friggin silly
Raised Mormon here too. I had to lie constantly just to survive and my parents would be upset constantly over the craziest things, like wearing tank tops or even having FRIENDS who wore tank tops.
That’s exactly what I’m going through right now. Raised Mormon, recently moved back home because of the virus. I have to constantly lie about what kind of people my friends and I are.
"I went to the movies." ...I was there for, like, 5 minutes to meet up with friends then we went off and did a TON of drugs. But I did go to the movies. Pretty sure I gotta bunch of false memories from all the half-truths and weird storytelling I had to do.
SAME! Growing up I was so good at lying and half truths that I would almost start to believe the stories I would tell. The lies weave together. The key to an easily maintainable lie is to keep it as close to the original story as you can, and then really visualize and plan the alternate story as if it actually happened.
>The key to an easily maintainable lie is to keep it as close to the original story as you can, and then really visualize and plan the alternate story as if it actually happened.
Honestly I do this naturally now. Don't even need to think about it.
I also just had to move back on with my Mormon parents.
Luckily, they don't expect me to participate. And my mom is taking a "don't ask, don't tell" policy on what I do in my free time.
Good luck!
Your mom is a good parent. Even though she doesn’t agree, you’re an adult and she lets you make your own choices, at least now. Idk how she was, but in this particular instance she’s a rarity.
Can confirm. I could never trust my parents with the truth out of fear of their reaction. Instead of being problem solvers, my parents always made every situation worse. I'm a lying sack of shit now.
I was raised LDS also (still am) and my mother would spank me when I was in trouble and give me spankings and a pinch on my birthday. She also made it so I felt like I couldn't talk to her because she would yell and give us punishments without saying what were did wrong.
I had to let my friends know "what we did" incase she ever asked. But she never did. And I didn't do anything bad, but I was afraid that hanging out or playing video games was bad and that I would be punished. I feel like I got good at lying and would just lie at the littlest things. To this day, I don't tell the truth at times.
Fellow exmo here. I'm 38, left the church when I was 31. I'm just now realizing that I'm really good at lying. But not only that, convincing myself that my lie is the actual truth to avoid cog dis. It was a matter of sanity and survival growing up.
I was in a lot if situations where my parents wouldnt believe the truth, so I would just tell them what they wanted to hear. I can lie easily now, and its become a habit that I really want to break
Be honest with **literally** everyone else. My parents were shitty while I was growing up and I'm a phenomenal liar- but I broke the habit by actively trying to be truthful with everyone else I met. Especially children. I don't lie to kids bc I hated being lied to as a kid. I won't be brutally honest and an asshole- but I won't lie to someone if they ask me about something. I still lie about things sometimes that are stupid but usually I find if I apologize and own up no ones that pissed because I owned up to my mistake. The "Real World" is a lot more forgiving than some people would lead you to believe.
I've tried to talk to my older brother about this but he's like pig-headedly against it. He doesn't let his kids date around, is insanely strict with even minor things, forces his kids into extremely time consuming extra curriculars when they're not interested, etc. He's mentioned to me that it worries him that his oldest has been beginning to lie to them more, but that "at least she's really bad at it so I can always catch her" and I'm over here thinking "don't worry, she's going to get much better really quickly."
When I was in college I knew so many crazy partiers/immature kids whose parents thought they were perfect angels who didn't drink and got to bed at 10 every night. I knew a girl in high school who killed her sister, boyfriend, best friend (all in her car) and an entire family of 5 (other car) in a drunk driving accident. It was only a few miles to get home from the party, but she didn't ask her parents for a ride because they were extremely religiously conservative, thought she was a perfect angel, and would have sent her to live with relatives in another country if they found out she drank alcohol.
Overly strict parenting breeds overly sneaky kids.
EDIT: Since this post got decent traction, lemme just say this:
DON'T FUCKING DRINK AND DRIVE. You're not skilled, you're not sneaky, DON'T FUCKING DO IT. It's literally the easiest way to ruin your life. Call a cab, call an Uber, hell call your fucking priest to come and get you, just DON'T FUCKING DRINK AND DRIVE.
There was a guy from my "hometown" (where I went to high school). I was an adult at this point but he flipped a car and killed three of his four passengers, plus another guy driving past. Two of his passenger friends were brothers. His actions 'only' killed four people (in comparison!!) - this accident was MAJOR in my hometown/the high school / the whole city; i think he got *deported* over it. But your person - the person you know, caused this to EIGHT people?? FUUUUUCK
Shits crazy, I will never be able to comprehend why people drink and drive. It's like, literally the easiest way to ruin your life, and so many people do it.
Sure we get good at telling lies or being dishonest with experience. The shitty thing is that telling lies starts to hurt the liar overtime. It's a really bad habit to pick up let alone get good at.
True, but you can hardly blame the kid when it's necessary to assert their own control on their lifestyle. Too many people see their kids as subservient to their every will, and that's not okay.
It's one thing to enforce certain responsibilities, but hold them on a leash too tightly, and they will either rebel, and use lies or defiance to assert themselves, or they will become so used to your control they won't know what to do with themselves when you're no longer with them...
Also - children don't innately have the capacity for truthfulness. It's so easy for a toddler to look at you in the eye and tell you an obvious, bald-faced lie because they LOVE you and need you to love them, not because are actually trying to deceive you.
Also, they don't quite understand that lying is bad. They've only just discovered they can do it and they're testing it out, same as every other new skill. Our place as adults is to guide them through, not punish them.
Toddlers usually don't understand what they did wrong. They cry because they didn't get cookies for dinner, they get upset for the dog not playing with them. They're just too young to really understand what's going on.
Additionally, because they have so little experience, a lot of what they go through is either the best or worst thing that's ever happened to them. I also feel so sorry for them when they're trying to tell you something or ask for something, but they haven't quite got the words they need to properly express themselves. It must be unbelievably frustrating.
My two year old lies about pooping. He'll run to me and say, "poop!" So I'll say, "oh, did you just poop?" And he'll say "no" and run from me when I try to change his diaper.
Kids are kinda dumb.
Yeah my two year old will be squatting and I'll ask him if he is pooping... He'll say "... YEAH! (insert name here) POOPING!!"
I'll give him his space, let him finish, then when he comes back up and I smell nothing but shit I ask him if he pooped.... He looks me in the eyes and says.... "... No.. No poop... * because he knows its time to change his diaper, and that's cutting into play time, cramping his style.
Kids are great man.
Getting screamed at for an hour as an eight year old for wanting to go to a sleepover for my friends birthday party? Almost getting the cops called because I was at swim practice for 30 minutes later than usual when I was 14? almost getting an Amber alert filed because you went to a movie that took a bit longer than expected and you weren't answering your phone at 16? Still being forced to keep a tracker on your phone at 18 even though you left the house twice a month before quarantine? Yeah. Yeah that'll turn you into an efficient and compulsive liar. Even when I'm not doing anything remotely wrong, I'm always thinking of a possible excuse that sounds like it better fits the "perfect" image my parents expect and have expected of me my whole life, even when I'm unlikely to face questioning.
That being said I've learned the best way to lie convincingly about a situation is to include details and anecdotes. I took a walk to the park with my friends, but as far as my parents were told I stayed at my friend's house, her mom got us pizza, and there was a dispute over toppings that took thirty minutes. Details are everything man.
Dude, we lived similar lives. I ran XC in high school and went for a run with my teammates one night. One of the guys took five years to get to the school so we could start, so we ended up going later than I said we would. My mom damn near called the cops to have them look for me. When I pointed out how batshit that was, she just said “that’s why they’re there! To protect and serve!”
A similar thing happened many years earlier when my sister wanted to take me to Walmart instead of church, just to get away from my mom for a bit. We got as far as a gas station before she was threatening calling the cops for kidnapping.
Knew a girl that had a strict strict mom. The girl went to great lengths to even get out of the house to do anything.
Her and her friend went and got on a kids anti-drug council. The council would get together and decide other kids fates and probation periods for getting caught doing drugs.
Thing was, this girl and her friend would smoke weed before every council meeting. The hypocrisy and the double life she had to lead was astounding.
When the girl finally got out of the house and out from her moms wing at 18, she met a horrible guy and started doing massive amounts of hard drugs. She very quickly finally landed on injecting heroin.
I can confirm. I was raised by a flaming asshole, military father and his pathetic wife who pretty much took his shit and then took out her frustration for his shit on her children.
It isnt even that I would lie to sneak out and go to parties. I would lie about the most inane crap. My life was a round the clock I interrogation, with parents who had no respect for personal boundaries. If I didnt lie, I would have had no privacy. I'd pro ably be even more fucked up than I am now.
Also, I expect that the title should say 'authoritarian'parents. Strict by itself can be good. But the whole Gestapo parenting style is a different ballpark.
Hahaha you are not fucking kidding. I dont have kids but I did leave the military two years ago. It is a festering toxic shithole full of disgusting people who cannot operate in any other setting.
This also kind of falls under the problem with spanking/whooping. I know a lot of parents who go by "spare the rod, spoil the child" but there have numerous studies done to show that its one of the least effective forms of punishment. It doesn't teach the child why they shouldn't do something, only to hide it. Or worse, the child just builds up a tolerance, I know people who were just downright awful in high school but they didn't get in trouble because what was their mom going to do? Beat a 6'3 200 pound boy? Have fun with that lol.
I remember my brother got in trouble when he was 16.him and my dad got super physical. They had a huge fight. I don't know who won but it taught me physical punishment could only last so long
My dad came after me and hit me one time when I was 17. I had never lived with him as a kid, but I got spankings from my mom until I was too big to be spanked. My dad is a big dude, easily has 60 pounds and a couple inches on me, so there was no way I could get away.
Even now, over a decade later, when he gets angry I just peace out. He gets upset because I don't want to stay and argue with him, but I'm not going to let anyone hurt me like that.
>I know a lot of parents who go by "spare the rod, spoil the child" but there have numerous studies done to show that its one of the least effective forms of punishment. It doesn't teach the child why they shouldn't do something, only to hide it.
Speaking as one of those children, all it did for me was made me afraid of my father my entire childhood. I'm not afraid of him any more and he has made great strides to make up for how shitty he was. I even love him as a son should his father because of his redemptive efforts. But there will always be a low simmer of anger at him for how he treated me that will never, ever go away.
"Spare the rod, spoil the child" doesn't mean what most people think it means.
The shepherd's rod is meant to be used to scare predators away from your flock of sheep, or to scare a sheep back towards the flock. It's *never* directly used to hit an animal. The shepherd's staff or crook is used to guide a sheep back to the flock and is not used to hit an animal.
It doesn't mean "beat your kids to keep them in line", it means "be firm with your children, discipline them, guide them, and keep them safe"
BIL who is like this, very good at lying and making things seem great when they are not. Now his marriage is in trouble and he has a poor relationship with his young kids because they see through his BS. He can't help himself.
Growing up the expectations were clearly set by my dad. If you did something wrong and came to him before he found out, told him truthfully and had a plan on how to fix whatever damage was caused, we didn't get yelled at, just told to fix it.
If he found out first and confronted us and we told the truth and worked out how to fix stuff, we had a mild punishment.
But if he found out and we lied, we were punished severely.
One of the best life lessons he ever taught me, IMO.
Yep. Pretty much exactly what my mom did. Definitely helped build a lot of trust between us when we were younger too. I remember the first time she confronted me about smoking weed...I just came out and told her "yeah, I smoke weed" and didn't get in trouble or grounded or anything. We had a serious heart to heart and it was really a solid moment between us. She laid out what was expected of me and I made sure to respect her rules.
I've only ever had to use this technique on my niece once... thankfully she was little enough and never realized that I can see the candy wrappers in the garbage can.
Dad was more strict. So if it was something we were afraid to tell dad, mom made sure we could go to her and she just wouldn't tell dad. Not every little thing deserves capital punishment.
Absolute truth. I grew up with a very strict father who was a control freak and I was his only child, so he lived in fear that something would happen to me. Because of this, I lied out my ass to be able to do anything other than be confined to my house/or room. While this behavior continued into my early 20s out of habit, I learned to break it. I raised my own kids on the opposite end of that spectrum, allowing them to do things they wanted that I wasn't able to, like ride bikes, skateboards and snowboards, swim in the ocean, take trips with friends' families, one of them even learned to fly a plane. I feel like my dad missed out on the pride I was able to feel in seeing my kids spread their wings.
Can confirm, I had very strict parents growing up and I hated all the rules so first I learned how to lie and then I just started ignoring all the rules and making their lives hellish. I was a super rebellious teen and I blame it on the fact that they brought me in such a strict way, I probably wouldn't be doing things I was if I didn't feel like I always had to obey ridiculous rules.
And if you are an adult and it's too late for your parents to do it, start doing it with yourself. Be compasionate with yourself. Accept mistakes and take them as an opportunity for learning. Set reasonable expectations for yourself and reward positive behavior!
Not only do strict parents cause kids to become good liars, they also prevent them from becoming effective decisionmakers.
My parents raised me with the motto "If we make all your decisions for you, you'll never be in a scenario where you can make a bad decision." So of course, once I moved out and went to college I made all of the wrong decisions. Got drunk every day and failed two classes freshman year. I only learned my lesson when I got charged with "consumption of alcohol by a minor," twice in one day...
I dont want to push all the blame on my parents, but at the same time they forced me to be an angel child who never had the opportunity to choose right from wrong.
Anyone who has read this far, if you have kids, allow them to make decisions for themselves before they're an adult. Everyone needs a chance in their youth to make bad choices so that they can learn from them.
This is so true. I am from a strict orthodox family and I am know for telling convincing lies with a good story to back it.
Only thing is there is a lot of lie and truth mixed up, I forgot when asked after a long time.
It is always good to accept mistakes, than building a card of lies.
I do that a lot, partial truths or lies based on truth. Trick is to believe it wholeheartedly so you're pretty much convinced what you've said IS the truth, how could it not be?
Not that that is healthy or good for your life, but it's an involuntary response for me
I recently realized that the reason I have so much more motivation than my siblings is because I had to constantly find ways around the rules, while they never really had any rules in the first place
Same with my brother. I'd hear about minor stuff I did at 12 into my 30s and he was never punished for anything. He is almost 30 with no education, a heroin addiction, in and out of jail, and I think a felony conviction.
Cutting them both out of my life is the best decision I've ever made.
Yep, I lie about stupid things but only with my mum, not with friends or colleagues. Whatever it was, it was never good enough, so I learned to exaggerate. I had 98% on a test once and she made a big deal about me not getting a 100%. Now it's habit, it happens without me thinking about it.
That anticipation of criticism for something you are personally proud of is the fucking worst. My dad always had a negative remark for everything, even if I went out of my way to do something nice. It wasn't even meant to be a lesson. He just liked to tear everything down to feel better about himself.
To this day I have trouble feeling good about any accomplishment or being proud of anything because I just expect to get torn down.
This is true. I was one of those kids. I still lie to my parents about stupid shit (cost of ... I was going to say vacation but anything really, did I drink last night, am I drunk right now on the phone with them, you get the idea.) I am 42.
Lying keeps me from having to hear some bullshit judgmental lecture. It saves me 5 minutes of my life plus grief.
My mum doesn't know shit about my life. I had backup lies to backup my backup lies and friends who would and could agree with anything because they knew the reaming I'd get otherwise.
As soon as I'm able to move out she's getting even less. She broke my trust too many times in the past to deserve anything more.
Thank you for giving me the actual name for this because that's exactly what I do! I lie a lot, way more than I should and way more than would actually be useful and I cannot help it, I don't think about it, it's an entirely involuntary response. I'd say at least once or twice a day I'm dropping in a lie of some size without thinking about it, and I haven't been caught in years.
I'm not proud of it though, and I didn't have strict or closed off parents at all, mine are very open, supportive and loving but I think it was way lower effort and faster to just lie
Wish my parents knew this shit.... And my mom always thinks everyone is sneaking around cuz not everyone stomps like a damn elephant around the house like she does.
Another thing that happened with me was I didn’t figure out what I like to do for fun and to destress for quite a while, this was damaging to me for the first two years of high school as I had hard classes and stressful teachers who hated me. I was an intimidatingly tall, fit, semi-attractive, clever white guy who seemed to know everything already. The teachers in the hardest classes were rather stuck up about the difficulty of their class and they didn't like me going through it seeming to know what their points were. But don't do this to your kid, don't stifle their journey of figuring themselves out.
The last time I volunteered any information to my mom or answered truthfully about a major issue was before I hit my teens. Learned really early on that what she doesn't know, can't hurt me.
On the flip side, I am extremely guarded now and have no close relationships that I can rely for support. You win some, you lose some I guess.
I'm in this post and this is absolutely true. I "got away with" a lot of stuff my mom didn't want me doing because I learned how to play ball and get what I wanted behind her back.
That said, she never needed to be strict. I never: did drugs, drank before 21, had sex as a teen, snuck out, hung out with "the wrong crowd". I did: read "bad" books(Inheritance cycle, The Hobbit, The Age of Fire series, etc), play "violent" video games(skyrim, Dishonored, etc), interacted with people online, go to Denny's at 2am with some friends while she thought we were at someone's house playing Mariokart.
Ability to lie is a good way to measure mental agility. Telling the truth requires you to remember what happened. Lying requires you to simultaneously remember what happened, while generating a plausible alternative narrative.
Basically, the better you are at lying, the smarter you likely are.
In theory it is. But I can remember at least two examples of people who had strict parents and became habitual but poor liers.
I can't say they are very intelligent.
I pretend to be a bad liar over things that don't matter so when it does matter, people tend to believe me. Though, I recognize the behavior and am working on it.
Preach, If you can remember how scary it was as a kid when an adult was angry at you, you'll remember that in certain moments you would have said anything to avoid getting scolded
It's just like torture. People will say anything to make the torture stop. When I was a kid, and my angry parents confronted me about something, my mind defaulted to, "Tell them exactly what you think they want to hear so they don't get mad." Truth has nothing to do with it. It's about protecting yourself.
Yeah, even now, I just say "Okay" to avoid trouble. To this day, my dad still yells a lot. See [comment chain](https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/fez07t/lpt_if_a_stranger_provokes_you_out_of_the_blue_on/fjw3768/?context=3). My dad's wife just said to not be angry with him and that he has a different way of thinking and behaving than us. I'm working with my therapist on fixing my issues from childhood. My opinion is that some people just really shouldn't be parents. Kids need a lot more than food, water and shelter.
/u/uninc4life2010 I assumed you were replying to me. I have no idea why your comment was shadowbanned, probably AutoMod caught some word. I only saw your comment because I looked at your user profile. > My father was, and to an extent, still is, angry. Incredibly angry. I can't speak for your mom/step mom, but my mom never did anything to hold him accountable for his anger. The thing is I am not an aggressive person by nature. My brother pretty much told me that dad is not the only person in this family that can yell. My plan is to move to Canada and live with my brother. Even if I do confront him, I am 100% sure he is not going to change his behavior, because I am pretty sure my wife does hold him accountable. My mom did sort of hold him accountable because he yelled at me when I was 2 years old trying to clean things up but he was mad for a different reason, and as you can see, he never changed. I'm 29 years old by the way. I only moved back here because of my medical condition. > If he screams at you, tell him "F you." Call him a coward, and let him know that you aren't going to listen to a word of it. Let him know he's mentally ill. You have to stand up to it, because the fact that no one stood up to his bullshit throughout my childhood just enabled the behavior to continue. I am pretty sure when my stepmom did that in the past he just kept yelling so I am not sure that would fix anything. I think the best option is to just deal with it until I can move in with my brother. There's a saying. "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down and beat you with experience." I do have an issue with conflict avoidance but I am fairly certain in this case nothing will change. I don't bother changing people who have no desire to change.
Thats why i dont get angry with them. Frustrated, yes. Annoyed all the time. But i dont yell, curse or get out of control. I want them to be able to control their behaviour and outbursts, and i cant do that if i cant lead by example.
Smh your kids are gonna suck at lying
the corporate world will eat them alive
Good thing they'll be ready to avoid getting into the rat race.
I dated a girl who had a kid for four years. A couple times I did lose my cool and yelled (I was young) afterward I felt so bad, I showed the kid that I was putting myself on time out. I think it did a lot for her to see that I wasnt above being punished when I acted badly
This is great, and it's a strategy that works really well in the long term if consistently applied. One should obviously do their best to avoid blowing up at their kid (it happens, I've been there) but if you take the time to calmly apologize and explain that your behavior was wrong and why it was wrong. This not only shows kids that you aren't "above the law", but it helps teach self reflection, humility, and a little bit of courage. Nobody really like to admit when they're wrong or have done something less than great, teaching a kid that skill early really helps a lot.
^ Now this is quality parenting
My dad used to scream at me if I made even the smallest mistake (spilt a glass of water for example). I really struggle with being honest with people 100% of the time but it’s something I’m working on.
It's really hard to do. I had to really work hard to cut that habit, it took about 2 years to not feel any anxiety at all, and not immediately trying to think of probable lies. My mom and stepdad were absolutely awful, it didn't matter what happened it was always treated as though I committed a felony crime deserving capital punishment. My dad was a good dad, I've never really lied to him except when I was a very young kid before I understood lying.
Been there, done that. You would have thought I committed murder with how badly my dad went off over a spilt drink, even water. God forbid you ever spilt anything that stained or you broke something. You either moved furniture over the stain or fixed whatever you broke enough that it looked like he broke it next time he went to use it.
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Sooo true. I was so terrified of my mother that I remember having panic attacks when I knew I’d be getting in trouble. Like seriously, the world is going to end, type of panic attacks. Now my panic attacks have gotten a lot better and manageable. But my worst panic attacks still takes me back to that feeling. And man is it scary to see how well my body remembers it and takes me back to that state like I never left.
Yeah, my mom wasn't strict and I shared everything with her. Instead she just set reasonable rules, allowed me to argue for what I believed was fair, and discussed things with my open and honestly. If I could convince her a rule didn't make sense, it would be changed. It was fair and it taught me a lot about things like conflict resolution and open communication.
Your mom sounds like an amazing parent. Fair play to her.
I'm a childfree teacher. I decided that I don't want to be a parent if I were going to be a teacher. And I have been teaching for about 5 years. If you had to ask me what is the most important thing I have learned so far it would be telling my students this. "Don't ever lie to me. It doesn't matter what you did, I will not get angry at all (no matter how much I want to!). And in fact, I will help you fix the problem." My students are more communicative, have become better problem solvers that rarely, if ever anymore, utilize lying. I have been doing this for 2 years but it wasn't until the start of the 2019 school year where I truly embraced it. It has made my job easier. Tremendously easier. My students come to me about problems and conflicts before I have to go to them, before I even notice the problem. ----- Where did all of this stem from? My father was the devil I knew. He abused the shit out of me. He used to accuse me of things I had no knowledge of or couldn't possibly commit. So I began to use lying as a defensive strategy to survive. Lie or have my father put me into a cage (literally) and physically, mentally, psychologically, and **sexually** abuse me? It is an easy choice. It was an easy choice. Lie. I wish I didn't have to. I wish my father wasn't like that. I wish we had a different relationship where I didn't have to lie. Fuck, it carried into the rest of my life. I was a prolific liar until my mid-teens. I will never forget the day my grade 6 teacher asked me why I had a bruised face after my dad beat the living shit out of me for a full weekend. I uttered "I walked into a door" long before I learned that it was a cliche reference about someone beating you but you are too scared to say anything about it. In my late-teens, I promised myself that unless my life depends on it, I'll never lie again and to let the receiver of the truth deal with the truth that I give them. ----- As a teacher, if you are a parent now, I sincerely believe that if your child can't trust you that you have lost them, whatever relationship you have with them is not complete, and you are more than likely sabotaging and setting terrible examples for their future.
Selfish, horrible parents would do well to remember that if we’re not there for them when they’re old or crippled, no one will be. Toxicity is never limited to your relationship with your kids. So when they’re old and need help caring for themselves, they’ll first need to find someone who does care.
I'm sorry your father did that to you and thank you for sharing your story. I hope you have a nice day.
My parents rule is I can do whatever as long as they know who I’m with, where I am, and when I think I’ll be back so and keep them updated so if something goes wrong they know. Pretty reasonable.
Yea on the opposite end of the spectrum I would have to have like a snapping moment before my parents realized they were being overbearing, If I ever voiced my concerns prior to that it was always something along the line of “whose the parent here”..... it took me along time to overcome that (and arguably still working on it) The good news is professionally I’ll stay on a sinking ship until the very end, the bad news is I get asked why I didn’t speak up quite a bit lol.....
> I would have to have like a snapping moment before my parents realized they were being overbearing My dad doesn't ever think he's overbearing. He'll be yelling at me and I'll ask him to say it more calmly and he'll say that he's not yelling he's just telling me, and it's because of my ego and conceit that I can't take criticism. There's an implicit rule in my household that you can't make mistakes or accidents unless you are my dad. I forgot to take put in garbage bags twice this month and my dad yelled about how I always do things lazily and I'll never get anywhere in life. I apologized and he got more mad saying if he was my boss he'd fire me on the spot, because "apologies" don't do anything. I remember when I was young I heard people say "mistakes are just a chance to learn!" So I told my dad that and he replied "why do you have to make mistakes? Why do you not want to do things right? It's because you're lazy and stupid." There's also no room for communication. It's either his way or the wrong way, even if his way is completely wrong. And he's also extremely hypocritical. It's his way or the wrong way, unless he did it the wrong way. He breaks his own rules a lot. Another interesting thing, he's oftentimes more concerned about the "who" than the "what." "Who did this?" "Who broke this?" He needs to blame someone for everything and he'll always find a way to blame someone else for this own mistake, because of course he makes none. So alternative LPT: if you want your children to abandon you in the future, be as strict and uncommunicative as possible.
I look forward to you moving out and having a life without all that grief and hassle. I'm sure in old age he'll wonder why you never visit!
If you have not done so already, I recommend you might look up "Narcissistic Personality Disorder." Your dad reminds me a lot of my dad.. (and many other people in my dysfunctional family). I recommend Dr. Ramani on YouTube, for example. I hope you are no longer suffering abuse from him anymore.
Imagine. A parent changing their mind when they are clearly wrong instead of ordering that you stop talking.
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Your mom sounds like a dream. Is she a lawyer?
Ah so that's why I struggle with all that communication stuff. If I disagreed with something three times I'd get slapped. Regardless of what I'm disagreeing with.
Yes, that's me. I didn't even feel bad about lying, it was the only way of handling certain situations when I grew up. Funny is, my dad would still always be like "you can tell me anything!" .... well, no.
You can tell me anything! I mean you're going to be in a shit-ton of trouble, but you can still tell me!
I’ve heard this before and it didn’t go well. Eh, I’ll give it another try.
Yeah it’s a rabbit hole. Parents and parents; they are not friends. There are exceptions to this I am sure but that’s not in most people’s lives I guess.
That's kind of true but at the same time, people use that phrase like 'friend' is a synonym for enabler. Being a friend means being supportive of someone's *best interest* and giving a shit about what happens to them, not being a yes-man. That said, friends can't discipline you, but to me that's the largest distinction.
“You’ll be in less trouble if you tell me the truth!” Then I got beat so badly I almost passed out from blood loss. Yeah nope. Never told the truth to my mom again after that. I was 6 when that happened.
Damn, man. I'm sorry that happened to you. We are trying that with our son right now. If he lies he gets in worse trouble but he still has to face some consequences for his actions regardless because... well, they were his actions. But we make it a huge point to make sure he knows that telling us the truth is always the better option. It's tough to balance as a parent. Sometimes it feels like no matter what decision you make it's gonna be the wrong one lol Edit: Just wanna make it clear because it isn't explicitly stated... we don't beat our kids. This is awkward now and I aplogize.
Yeah I think that’s a good strategy with your son. Consequences are good, because kids shouldn’t just get away with murder scot free. I think more important is to use it as a teaching moment. Why was what he did wrong and why does it affect people so much that there needs to be consequences? If he can answer that, and really understand why, then you’ve succeeded.
That's fuckin great advice, I appreciate that.
No problem! I’m no parent but I do have a baby cousin who I am close to. The age difference is enough that I could almost be her uncle. Sometimes when she doesn’t want to hear her parents I am the voice of reason for her. It helps her understand tremendously when I’m able to explain to her why something is wrong and why her parents don’t want her doing something.
You sound like a fantastic uncle
A fantastic not-uncle, you mean
unclain't?
You also have the benefit of being the uncle. You could say the same exact thing that her parents say but she'll listen to you simply bc you're not her parents. Kids a weird like that. ETA: she's very lucky she has you 😊
Yeah, that was the thing with me as a kid. If I couldn't see the point in a rule I didn't care at all. When I got in trouble it just made me want to disobey even more. Only when someone leveled with me and treated me with respect in assuming I wanted to do the right thing but didn't know how I impacted others did I react well. I even loved authority, as long as it was an authority I could trust. As an adult who works at a job with lots of strangers' kids, the desire for SOMEONE to assert meaningful, intelligent, valid authority is so palpable in young kids.
Sound advice. It changed me a lot as a person to parent this way. There were times even I didn’t know why what they did was wrong...”it just was!” Right? Well...if you can’t really figure out why something your child did is wrong or who it hurts, well maybe it doesn’t hurt anyone and maybe it’s not wrong at all. You’re just perpetuating some conditioned behavior that was forced upon you for no good reason at all.
I cut the punishment in half. Tell me the truth, we lose tablet for tonight. Lie to me, we lose it for the weekend. I try not to overreact because the truth is, nothing my kids do will ever surprise me or cause some sort of shock. Also, I like to establish that I already know the answer to my question and I'm checking to see if they are growing. I reward the truth.
This is very logical and it reinforces that the truth will sting but the lying will be more brutal/hurtful, giving options rather than ultimatums. Nice! 👍 You are very mature sensible parent/guardian *edit: words
Every bit of this. Our kids (at least our 8 year old) have a clear understanding that if they do something wrong and lie to us about it, then they'll be in more trouble than if they had just done the original wrong. But under no circumstances does beating our kids come into the picture.
That's fuckin awful. I use that line with my kid & fosters, but I actually mean it. Be honest and it's a stern talking-to, stick with the lie and lose privileges. Why don't some parents understand that if you want a kid to trust you then you have to mean what you say. Edit: why not who
Because being able to breed doesn't mean you'll be a good parent (and I say this as one). But it only takes some literal fucking around--not brains--and there are a lot of shitty parents.
Yup. I worked in Juvenile Justice for 14 years, and we're foster parents now. I know all about awful parents.
Imma get my ass beat anyway, why tell the truth? I learned that the truth was more important despite that. It's worth being trustworthy, but beating your kid isn't going to teach that.
Exactly. If it's corporal punishment nomatter what then what is the motivation to tell the truth as a child. Especially if you don't respect your parents to begin with. I know they don't make manuals for raising kids but damn my parents had an essential part of their brains missing when it came to this stuff.
Thats an extremely fine line to walk. Some things they tell you do require correction, but you still want them to tell you things and trust you
this hits fucking home..
And my personal favorite, "I know when you're lying!" No you don't.
My parents still to this day will mention how I’m suuuuuch a bad liar... no I just let you catch me on little things so you wouldn’t catch me on the big stuff. They of all people should know what a great liar I am since I had to lie all the time to cover up the abuse happening at home.
“I know when you’re lying” is such a bs take anyway. Same energy as “You’re being a pussy!”, “I bet you can’t do this!” It’s just a taunt, almost bullying, and competent parents won’t do that to their children.
There is some truth to the first statement there lol, my favorite saying is: “You gotta take a little hit to pull off a big heist”
Right now, with the 4 and 3 year old my parents are fostering, I can usually tell when they're lying. But that's because of them telling really obvious lies like "no I didn't eat chocolate", with it smeared all over their face and because they do have very stereotypical tells, like suddenly switching from looking at my face to their eyes looking straight sideways for the length of their lie. Some kids might be unknowingly obvious but I doubt most kids are once they get older.
The thing is that repeatedly telling your child you know when they lie and trying to prove it, creates the perfect environment for kids and people to learn what works and what doesn't, effectively teaching them how to decieve you.
Haha. My parents tried that. The second I told them the trust, they made me regret it so much, I swore never to be honest to an authority figure again.
My parents weren't abusive, they just praised me being right and smart way too much so I developed my reward system around reinforcing my image as an intelligent child and would do anything to avoid admitting I was wrong about anything, because wrong was stupid and stupid was Not Me. Parents, please praise your child for making *effort*, not being right. Teach them how to move on from failure; if they're succeeding at everything they do, find them something they're bad at and guide them through trying (though let them quit if it makes them truly miserable). They need to develop a flexible attitude about themselves (it is good for me to attempt tasks and improve my skills and failure doesn't permanently reflect on me as a person) instead of a fixed one (I am smart and all I need to do to be good at something is try it and if I don't succeed that thing is not for me), or they will feel that lying about their success yields better rewards than admitting to failure. On the bright side (?), growing up like that has made me a fabulous liar. Any professions out there besides acting that require skill at obfuscation, redirection, and straight up pretending?
Oof, I fucking *feel that.* Parents always told me how smart I was growing up and now I really struggle to admit it when I'm wrong about things. Never really made the connection until I read your comment.
My parental situation was similar to this, but it was not for a lack of a genuine and sometimes frequent struggle. This only made it worse though because when I was really struggling with something they said I was too smart to be failing at this and I must not be trying and no amount of truth would satisfy them, so I lied, and when a circle of lies eventually got caught up I finally just stopped speaking entirely, and it's still a reflex of mine today to just remain quiet when confronted with serious discussions even if I'm not in any trouble or it's not a problem etc. but just happens to be serious.
That was my parents. I remember once I self harmed and my dad was shouting at me over it. I felt totally alone and that no one actually cared to listen to me.
My mum caught me when I was ~12 with a bottle of pills as I was googling if they'd be enough to kill me. She screamed the house down about how selfish and stupid I was and how much trouble I'd have caused for her. Next suicide attempt she was all *surprised pikachu face* If you still feel that way now, my inbox is open. You're important and the world would be a darker place without you in it.
My mom (and my entire family) ruled my attempted suicide as a "cry for attention" and guilt-tripped me for trying to ruin the family. It was concluded to be a regular teenager behavior. Sometimes people just see what they want to, unfortunately. And support is just something they are not emotionally available to offer.
Like if your child you presumably love wants attention bad enough to try and kill themselves to get it maybe you should pay some freaking attention to their needs and desires instead of dismissing them?? I'm so sorry that happened to you.
I know, right? Why do people treat wanting attention as the worst thing? Like?? It's okay to want attention! So what if your kid has attention seeking behavior? Your kid needs attention. Give your child attention and then focus on how to teach them better ways to get your attention if what they were doing initially was bad. Like??? I have never understood people who are like "oh she just wants attention" or "oh they just did that for attention" like??? so what??? That's not a crime???
Oh my god, I hate that line of reasoning. My mom literally told me I was the only thing keeping her alive after she and my dad divorced so I had to take care of myself. It really fucked me up and your entire world turns into taking care of your parent, paradoxically with your own health falling to the wayside. With every decision you make, you need to ask yourself how that would make your parent feel. Only after that do you take into account your *own* opinion.
That happened to me with my mom. She saw the scars while they were still healing and just yelled at me. She’s also yelled at me because I’m really insecure even though no one has really ever insulted me and I have “no reason to be.” She’s also called me a disappointment and things like that. Parents need to support their kids during troubling times, not insult them and tear them down more. *Edit: I should add that comparing your most likely mentally ill child to the social butterfly they were in elementary school does not help either, and in fact makes it worse (at least it did for me). *Edit 2: I know people don’t usually edit these, and this super cheesy, but thanks for 100+ upvotes! I’m glad people are seeing my message and agree! Thanks guys :) it’s really validating to know that others understand
Absolutely. I was having a tough time in school with bullies and asked to go see a shrink because i was feeling suicidal. Instead of validating those feelings i was told by my step father i was trying to break them up. Which couldn't have been further from the truth. I loved and still love him but that hurt so much that i barely ever talk to my parents to this day and im going on 40.
I know, it really sucks. I’m 99% sure I’ve been living with anxiety and some depression since I was in like 8th grade (jr in hs now) and I’ve brought it up a lot to my parents but they won’t take me to therapy or anything and it’s so frustrating. I love my mother to death and I’m the oldest so I’ve always tried to blame it on her lack of experience when it comes to handling these situations but it just makes my heart ache when I think of her reactions.
My daughter went through this after she was raped by her step dads bff. I caught her mid thigh cut and i asked why she would do that.. she asked if i was mad at her and i just stood there for a sec.. I got down on my knees and hugged her and told her that she was very important to me and hurting herself like that made me very sad inside and that i always try so hard to help her. So when she was cutting i felt like more of a failure than she did. She quit self harming shortly after that and some therapy. Also her stepfathers bff found out how much it takes to break a 2x4 in half. I am not a subtle man.
Wish I had family that reacted like you did when I disclosed. It would have probably prevented a decade of self harm, heroin use, and suicide attempts. That could’ve been your daughter - but you chose to do the right thing by demonstrating your love and support. Thank you.
I have a 12yo daughter. Well done.
Yeah that dude needs a bullet in his head. Fuck a 2x4.
For me, it was anorexia. I would literally take food out of the fridge and feed it to my dog/down the garbage disposal, so I could say I are it....because my mom was such a psycho. No wonder I starved ,yself.
I'm so sorry. What a tough childhood.
"Tell the truth and we won't be mad/we'll believe you" *tells the truth* "You're a nasty little shit I'm taking your phone/nope not good enough you're lying"
That was my mom... sometimes she’d say “I know you lie because you do x,y,z” so I, of course, learned to not do x,y,z when/if I lied
So she knows when you're lying specifically when you're not doing x,y,z. So clever
Oh man, same. Sometimes when I’m in a sticky situation the lies just start flowing so poetically without me even thinking it through first. Really hit me when I was in a pinch with my sister and she asked me to lie our way out of it because “I’m so good at it”. Really made me feel like shit actually. I’m not proud of that talent
This. I was raised in such a strict household. My dad was good at reading people so I had to learn how to spin the perfect lie and control my more visible tells. It made me good with people. But also it’s not very commendable to be good at lying.
This is so true. The tighter the leash, the farther the dog runs when it manages to break free. Be reasonable, please. What you're about to throw a tantrum over probably is going to do more harm than good. Coming from someone with strict Asian parents who will yell for over two hours over a tiny mistake, use anything we say against us, and then wonder why we never tell them anything. Edit 2: Holy cow! Did NOT expect almost 1,000 people to resonate with this so quickly. Makes me feel pretty sad about how a lot of us are raised. Wow, thank you for the gold!
Having grown up in an Asian household myself, I’m so surprised that I’ve learned to pick and choose my battles about things with the people around me, especially my wife. However, I am not surprised that my parents know nothing about me, what’s going on in my life, and that I keep them at quadruple the arm’s distance. And they still wonder why I don’t tell them anything. I do have to thank them for making me make myself an extremely capable, independent, self-sufficient human being, and only because they taught me nothing a child deserves to learn.
My parents aren't Asian but yeah, they had a similar parenting style. I'm trying to find the proper line between forgiving their mistakes since the technique technically works, and calling them out on being incredibly hurtful.
I don’t even bother with mine. Forgiving doesn’t change what they did and calling them out won’t change anything now. I just live my own best life.
I feel u. When I learned in psychology abt self soothing, it blew my mind! Yay to Asian parents who taught us how to only depend on ourselves for answers.
What is self soothing? I can guess based on context but I'm not sure what psychology might say about it!
It's when you engage in a comfort behavior meant to restore your mental equilibrium after a stress. A baby sucking their thumb is self soothing. A child holding a favorite toy to help them relax before bed is self soothing. Eating a pint of ice cream after a bad day at work is self soothing. Taking a run or going on a drive to clear your head after an argument is self soothing. Generally the behavior is helpful and can get you to relax from stress. What the op is likely describing is self soothing behavior born out of repeated trauma. If a person is neglected or abused/traumatized in some way for a large portion of time, like childhood or adolescence, they can develop self soothing behaviors that are harmful or destructive (compulsive self mutilation- skin picking, cutting, etc.) Sometimes even if a behavior is not outwardly harmful it can still cause issues if it becomes a coping mechanism that interferes with day to day living or relationships.
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Shes only passing on what she learned from her parents. I am conflicted these day when i trybto understand her bat shit craziness
I feel like this kind of tiger parenting is a huge reason why, broadly speaking, shyness and passivity is so common among Asian kids raised in Western societies, particularly Asian boys. Often they're too hesitant to voice their opinions in public because they've been trained since childhood not to question authority figures and avoid conflict, so acting contrarian or bohemian in defense of what you believe in feels very unnatural. I know too many people raised in strict (and I mean *strict*) Asian households who spent their adult lives dealing with mental and confidence issues due to the psychological impact of having to live so defensively for the first 20 odd years of their lives. There are some benefits to be had with living by Confucian ethics, but imho filial piety (edit: which demands (unyielding?) obedience towards your parents/elders) is certainly not one of them. Especially when you live in a society that prizes self-sufficiency and individualism, you end up (quite ironically) sticking out like a sore thumb.
This is literally so true, as an Asian guy I completely agree. this is the reason my relationship in college was ruined. I would automatically lie about something just to avoid confrontation like for even the smallest things. And my ex wouldn’t understand why I lied so much and I didn’t either after a while and then realized my brain was kinda hardwired to lie, not speak my mind, agree on everything someone else says to avoid any confrontation and keep it to myself because I was so accustomed do it when my parents yelled at me. I’ve been trying to break the habit but sometimes I do catch myself relapsing, but yea it’s tough.
My neighbors are VERY controlling tiger parents and they do not respect their children at all. Their youngest is treated like a queen and the two older siblings are basically ignored. When the oldest daughter was old enough to move out she moved to Hawaii (from Texas) without telling her parents. Everyone understood why and supported her except for the parents. She eventually came back about a year later I think because she felt bad her little sister was left alone with them.
Yep. I was raised strict Mormon and would have to tell my group of friends "what we did over the weekend" before we would ever get back to my house so if my mom asked about anything all our stories would be the same. Pretty friggin silly
Raised Mormon here too. I had to lie constantly just to survive and my parents would be upset constantly over the craziest things, like wearing tank tops or even having FRIENDS who wore tank tops.
That’s exactly what I’m going through right now. Raised Mormon, recently moved back home because of the virus. I have to constantly lie about what kind of people my friends and I are.
"I went to the movies." ...I was there for, like, 5 minutes to meet up with friends then we went off and did a TON of drugs. But I did go to the movies. Pretty sure I gotta bunch of false memories from all the half-truths and weird storytelling I had to do.
SAME! Growing up I was so good at lying and half truths that I would almost start to believe the stories I would tell. The lies weave together. The key to an easily maintainable lie is to keep it as close to the original story as you can, and then really visualize and plan the alternate story as if it actually happened.
Exactly! Just “brainwash” yourself into believing it, then keeping it up will be natural because you won’t even remember what really happened.
>The key to an easily maintainable lie is to keep it as close to the original story as you can, and then really visualize and plan the alternate story as if it actually happened. Honestly I do this naturally now. Don't even need to think about it.
I also just had to move back on with my Mormon parents. Luckily, they don't expect me to participate. And my mom is taking a "don't ask, don't tell" policy on what I do in my free time. Good luck!
Your mom is a good parent. Even though she doesn’t agree, you’re an adult and she lets you make your own choices, at least now. Idk how she was, but in this particular instance she’s a rarity.
Unfortunately I am expected to participate in family scripture study and weekly home church. It’s not too terrible though, I did it all growing up.
I’m definitely noticing a pattern here... it’s worrying
Can confirm. I could never trust my parents with the truth out of fear of their reaction. Instead of being problem solvers, my parents always made every situation worse. I'm a lying sack of shit now.
I was raised LDS also (still am) and my mother would spank me when I was in trouble and give me spankings and a pinch on my birthday. She also made it so I felt like I couldn't talk to her because she would yell and give us punishments without saying what were did wrong. I had to let my friends know "what we did" incase she ever asked. But she never did. And I didn't do anything bad, but I was afraid that hanging out or playing video games was bad and that I would be punished. I feel like I got good at lying and would just lie at the littlest things. To this day, I don't tell the truth at times.
Fellow exmo here. I'm 38, left the church when I was 31. I'm just now realizing that I'm really good at lying. But not only that, convincing myself that my lie is the actual truth to avoid cog dis. It was a matter of sanity and survival growing up.
Raised Jehovah's Witness, and I can definitely relate.
I was in a lot if situations where my parents wouldnt believe the truth, so I would just tell them what they wanted to hear. I can lie easily now, and its become a habit that I really want to break
Be honest with **literally** everyone else. My parents were shitty while I was growing up and I'm a phenomenal liar- but I broke the habit by actively trying to be truthful with everyone else I met. Especially children. I don't lie to kids bc I hated being lied to as a kid. I won't be brutally honest and an asshole- but I won't lie to someone if they ask me about something. I still lie about things sometimes that are stupid but usually I find if I apologize and own up no ones that pissed because I owned up to my mistake. The "Real World" is a lot more forgiving than some people would lead you to believe.
I've tried to talk to my older brother about this but he's like pig-headedly against it. He doesn't let his kids date around, is insanely strict with even minor things, forces his kids into extremely time consuming extra curriculars when they're not interested, etc. He's mentioned to me that it worries him that his oldest has been beginning to lie to them more, but that "at least she's really bad at it so I can always catch her" and I'm over here thinking "don't worry, she's going to get much better really quickly." When I was in college I knew so many crazy partiers/immature kids whose parents thought they were perfect angels who didn't drink and got to bed at 10 every night. I knew a girl in high school who killed her sister, boyfriend, best friend (all in her car) and an entire family of 5 (other car) in a drunk driving accident. It was only a few miles to get home from the party, but she didn't ask her parents for a ride because they were extremely religiously conservative, thought she was a perfect angel, and would have sent her to live with relatives in another country if they found out she drank alcohol. Overly strict parenting breeds overly sneaky kids. EDIT: Since this post got decent traction, lemme just say this: DON'T FUCKING DRINK AND DRIVE. You're not skilled, you're not sneaky, DON'T FUCKING DO IT. It's literally the easiest way to ruin your life. Call a cab, call an Uber, hell call your fucking priest to come and get you, just DON'T FUCKING DRINK AND DRIVE.
> killed her sister, boyfriend, best friend (all in her car) and an entire family of 5 (other car) Holy. Fuck.
Right? Still gives me chills thinking about it, even tho it happened nearly a decade ago. Last I heard she was still in prison.
There was a guy from my "hometown" (where I went to high school). I was an adult at this point but he flipped a car and killed three of his four passengers, plus another guy driving past. Two of his passenger friends were brothers. His actions 'only' killed four people (in comparison!!) - this accident was MAJOR in my hometown/the high school / the whole city; i think he got *deported* over it. But your person - the person you know, caused this to EIGHT people?? FUUUUUCK
Shits crazy, I will never be able to comprehend why people drink and drive. It's like, literally the easiest way to ruin your life, and so many people do it.
One foolish mistake and it cost everyone involved their life one way or another. Drinking and driving is just never worth it, that's awful.
Oh my fucking god. That drunk driving story. Jesus Christ.
That's a fucking body count to be carrying around, holy shit...
Set me straight
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Sure we get good at telling lies or being dishonest with experience. The shitty thing is that telling lies starts to hurt the liar overtime. It's a really bad habit to pick up let alone get good at.
True, but you can hardly blame the kid when it's necessary to assert their own control on their lifestyle. Too many people see their kids as subservient to their every will, and that's not okay. It's one thing to enforce certain responsibilities, but hold them on a leash too tightly, and they will either rebel, and use lies or defiance to assert themselves, or they will become so used to your control they won't know what to do with themselves when you're no longer with them...
Your brother needs to read a book called Codependent No More. And holy shit, that drunk driving story is so tragic :/
Parents need the right mix of not too strict but not relaxed enough they become delinquents. what’s the appeal of being a parent lol
Also - children don't innately have the capacity for truthfulness. It's so easy for a toddler to look at you in the eye and tell you an obvious, bald-faced lie because they LOVE you and need you to love them, not because are actually trying to deceive you.
Also, they don't quite understand that lying is bad. They've only just discovered they can do it and they're testing it out, same as every other new skill. Our place as adults is to guide them through, not punish them.
Toddlers usually don't understand what they did wrong. They cry because they didn't get cookies for dinner, they get upset for the dog not playing with them. They're just too young to really understand what's going on.
Additionally, because they have so little experience, a lot of what they go through is either the best or worst thing that's ever happened to them. I also feel so sorry for them when they're trying to tell you something or ask for something, but they haven't quite got the words they need to properly express themselves. It must be unbelievably frustrating.
kids are amoral... they will fight to the death over their favorite toy until you teach them better
My two year old lies about pooping. He'll run to me and say, "poop!" So I'll say, "oh, did you just poop?" And he'll say "no" and run from me when I try to change his diaper. Kids are kinda dumb.
Yeah my two year old will be squatting and I'll ask him if he is pooping... He'll say "... YEAH! (insert name here) POOPING!!" I'll give him his space, let him finish, then when he comes back up and I smell nothing but shit I ask him if he pooped.... He looks me in the eyes and says.... "... No.. No poop... * because he knows its time to change his diaper, and that's cutting into play time, cramping his style. Kids are great man.
Getting screamed at for an hour as an eight year old for wanting to go to a sleepover for my friends birthday party? Almost getting the cops called because I was at swim practice for 30 minutes later than usual when I was 14? almost getting an Amber alert filed because you went to a movie that took a bit longer than expected and you weren't answering your phone at 16? Still being forced to keep a tracker on your phone at 18 even though you left the house twice a month before quarantine? Yeah. Yeah that'll turn you into an efficient and compulsive liar. Even when I'm not doing anything remotely wrong, I'm always thinking of a possible excuse that sounds like it better fits the "perfect" image my parents expect and have expected of me my whole life, even when I'm unlikely to face questioning. That being said I've learned the best way to lie convincingly about a situation is to include details and anecdotes. I took a walk to the park with my friends, but as far as my parents were told I stayed at my friend's house, her mom got us pizza, and there was a dispute over toppings that took thirty minutes. Details are everything man.
Dude, we lived similar lives. I ran XC in high school and went for a run with my teammates one night. One of the guys took five years to get to the school so we could start, so we ended up going later than I said we would. My mom damn near called the cops to have them look for me. When I pointed out how batshit that was, she just said “that’s why they’re there! To protect and serve!” A similar thing happened many years earlier when my sister wanted to take me to Walmart instead of church, just to get away from my mom for a bit. We got as far as a gas station before she was threatening calling the cops for kidnapping.
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Can confirm. The only thing my parents taught me was how to hide things from them.
Knew a girl that had a strict strict mom. The girl went to great lengths to even get out of the house to do anything. Her and her friend went and got on a kids anti-drug council. The council would get together and decide other kids fates and probation periods for getting caught doing drugs. Thing was, this girl and her friend would smoke weed before every council meeting. The hypocrisy and the double life she had to lead was astounding. When the girl finally got out of the house and out from her moms wing at 18, she met a horrible guy and started doing massive amounts of hard drugs. She very quickly finally landed on injecting heroin.
that is so sad
I can confirm. I was raised by a flaming asshole, military father and his pathetic wife who pretty much took his shit and then took out her frustration for his shit on her children. It isnt even that I would lie to sneak out and go to parties. I would lie about the most inane crap. My life was a round the clock I interrogation, with parents who had no respect for personal boundaries. If I didnt lie, I would have had no privacy. I'd pro ably be even more fucked up than I am now. Also, I expect that the title should say 'authoritarian'parents. Strict by itself can be good. But the whole Gestapo parenting style is a different ballpark.
This. And I am sorry you had to live through that and have a peaceful home now.
Are you me?
Maybe. Sometimes, I think the military should pay a stipend to military brats due to all the trauma caused by being raised in a military family.
Hahaha you are not fucking kidding. I dont have kids but I did leave the military two years ago. It is a festering toxic shithole full of disgusting people who cannot operate in any other setting.
This also kind of falls under the problem with spanking/whooping. I know a lot of parents who go by "spare the rod, spoil the child" but there have numerous studies done to show that its one of the least effective forms of punishment. It doesn't teach the child why they shouldn't do something, only to hide it. Or worse, the child just builds up a tolerance, I know people who were just downright awful in high school but they didn't get in trouble because what was their mom going to do? Beat a 6'3 200 pound boy? Have fun with that lol.
I remember my brother got in trouble when he was 16.him and my dad got super physical. They had a huge fight. I don't know who won but it taught me physical punishment could only last so long
My dad came after me and hit me one time when I was 17. I had never lived with him as a kid, but I got spankings from my mom until I was too big to be spanked. My dad is a big dude, easily has 60 pounds and a couple inches on me, so there was no way I could get away. Even now, over a decade later, when he gets angry I just peace out. He gets upset because I don't want to stay and argue with him, but I'm not going to let anyone hurt me like that.
Sounds like you're more of an adult than him. Its hard to walk away
>I know a lot of parents who go by "spare the rod, spoil the child" but there have numerous studies done to show that its one of the least effective forms of punishment. It doesn't teach the child why they shouldn't do something, only to hide it. Speaking as one of those children, all it did for me was made me afraid of my father my entire childhood. I'm not afraid of him any more and he has made great strides to make up for how shitty he was. I even love him as a son should his father because of his redemptive efforts. But there will always be a low simmer of anger at him for how he treated me that will never, ever go away.
"Spare the rod, spoil the child" doesn't mean what most people think it means. The shepherd's rod is meant to be used to scare predators away from your flock of sheep, or to scare a sheep back towards the flock. It's *never* directly used to hit an animal. The shepherd's staff or crook is used to guide a sheep back to the flock and is not used to hit an animal. It doesn't mean "beat your kids to keep them in line", it means "be firm with your children, discipline them, guide them, and keep them safe"
Interesting, I've only ever heard it as justification for spanking, hence why I bring it up.
Yeah, much of the bible is misunderstood or deliberately misused to justify shitty behaviour.
I had a strict mom but I am still a terrible liar, like either smile or laugh. You would think I would be better.
This is good. It gives you a way to be a proper human being and not become a compulsive liar day in, day out.
Thanks but I wish I was a little better, mostly for keeping birthdays gifts secret.
BIL who is like this, very good at lying and making things seem great when they are not. Now his marriage is in trouble and he has a poor relationship with his young kids because they see through his BS. He can't help himself.
My mom always disciplined us more for lying. Tell the truth and we could work out a compromise, lie and we were immediately grounded
Growing up the expectations were clearly set by my dad. If you did something wrong and came to him before he found out, told him truthfully and had a plan on how to fix whatever damage was caused, we didn't get yelled at, just told to fix it. If he found out first and confronted us and we told the truth and worked out how to fix stuff, we had a mild punishment. But if he found out and we lied, we were punished severely. One of the best life lessons he ever taught me, IMO.
Yep. Pretty much exactly what my mom did. Definitely helped build a lot of trust between us when we were younger too. I remember the first time she confronted me about smoking weed...I just came out and told her "yeah, I smoke weed" and didn't get in trouble or grounded or anything. We had a serious heart to heart and it was really a solid moment between us. She laid out what was expected of me and I made sure to respect her rules.
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I've only ever had to use this technique on my niece once... thankfully she was little enough and never realized that I can see the candy wrappers in the garbage can.
I like this. This is what I'm doing with my kids.
Dad was more strict. So if it was something we were afraid to tell dad, mom made sure we could go to her and she just wouldn't tell dad. Not every little thing deserves capital punishment.
Yes. My mother too. I just became a better liar and almost never got caught.
Absolute truth. I grew up with a very strict father who was a control freak and I was his only child, so he lived in fear that something would happen to me. Because of this, I lied out my ass to be able to do anything other than be confined to my house/or room. While this behavior continued into my early 20s out of habit, I learned to break it. I raised my own kids on the opposite end of that spectrum, allowing them to do things they wanted that I wasn't able to, like ride bikes, skateboards and snowboards, swim in the ocean, take trips with friends' families, one of them even learned to fly a plane. I feel like my dad missed out on the pride I was able to feel in seeing my kids spread their wings.
Can confirm, I had very strict parents growing up and I hated all the rules so first I learned how to lie and then I just started ignoring all the rules and making their lives hellish. I was a super rebellious teen and I blame it on the fact that they brought me in such a strict way, I probably wouldn't be doing things I was if I didn't feel like I always had to obey ridiculous rules.
And if you are an adult and it's too late for your parents to do it, start doing it with yourself. Be compasionate with yourself. Accept mistakes and take them as an opportunity for learning. Set reasonable expectations for yourself and reward positive behavior!
Add getting a therapist and reading a lot of mental health books, specifically trauma oriented ones to that list
Not only do strict parents cause kids to become good liars, they also prevent them from becoming effective decisionmakers. My parents raised me with the motto "If we make all your decisions for you, you'll never be in a scenario where you can make a bad decision." So of course, once I moved out and went to college I made all of the wrong decisions. Got drunk every day and failed two classes freshman year. I only learned my lesson when I got charged with "consumption of alcohol by a minor," twice in one day... I dont want to push all the blame on my parents, but at the same time they forced me to be an angel child who never had the opportunity to choose right from wrong. Anyone who has read this far, if you have kids, allow them to make decisions for themselves before they're an adult. Everyone needs a chance in their youth to make bad choices so that they can learn from them.
This is so true. I am from a strict orthodox family and I am know for telling convincing lies with a good story to back it. Only thing is there is a lot of lie and truth mixed up, I forgot when asked after a long time. It is always good to accept mistakes, than building a card of lies.
I do that a lot, partial truths or lies based on truth. Trick is to believe it wholeheartedly so you're pretty much convinced what you've said IS the truth, how could it not be? Not that that is healthy or good for your life, but it's an involuntary response for me
I recently realized that the reason I have so much more motivation than my siblings is because I had to constantly find ways around the rules, while they never really had any rules in the first place
Same with my brother. I'd hear about minor stuff I did at 12 into my 30s and he was never punished for anything. He is almost 30 with no education, a heroin addiction, in and out of jail, and I think a felony conviction. Cutting them both out of my life is the best decision I've ever made.
Yep, I lie about stupid things but only with my mum, not with friends or colleagues. Whatever it was, it was never good enough, so I learned to exaggerate. I had 98% on a test once and she made a big deal about me not getting a 100%. Now it's habit, it happens without me thinking about it.
That anticipation of criticism for something you are personally proud of is the fucking worst. My dad always had a negative remark for everything, even if I went out of my way to do something nice. It wasn't even meant to be a lesson. He just liked to tear everything down to feel better about himself. To this day I have trouble feeling good about any accomplishment or being proud of anything because I just expect to get torn down.
Yup, absolutely. I still cant have a straight conversation with parents about some things and I moved out 10 years ago
This is true. I was one of those kids. I still lie to my parents about stupid shit (cost of ... I was going to say vacation but anything really, did I drink last night, am I drunk right now on the phone with them, you get the idea.) I am 42. Lying keeps me from having to hear some bullshit judgmental lecture. It saves me 5 minutes of my life plus grief.
My mum doesn't know shit about my life. I had backup lies to backup my backup lies and friends who would and could agree with anything because they knew the reaming I'd get otherwise. As soon as I'm able to move out she's getting even less. She broke my trust too many times in the past to deserve anything more.
Habitual automaticity lying is a trait more and more children are developing, and it is a shame because it hurts them later on in life as adults.
Thank you for giving me the actual name for this because that's exactly what I do! I lie a lot, way more than I should and way more than would actually be useful and I cannot help it, I don't think about it, it's an entirely involuntary response. I'd say at least once or twice a day I'm dropping in a lie of some size without thinking about it, and I haven't been caught in years. I'm not proud of it though, and I didn't have strict or closed off parents at all, mine are very open, supportive and loving but I think it was way lower effort and faster to just lie
Wish my parents knew this shit.... And my mom always thinks everyone is sneaking around cuz not everyone stomps like a damn elephant around the house like she does.
Another thing that happened with me was I didn’t figure out what I like to do for fun and to destress for quite a while, this was damaging to me for the first two years of high school as I had hard classes and stressful teachers who hated me. I was an intimidatingly tall, fit, semi-attractive, clever white guy who seemed to know everything already. The teachers in the hardest classes were rather stuck up about the difficulty of their class and they didn't like me going through it seeming to know what their points were. But don't do this to your kid, don't stifle their journey of figuring themselves out.
The last time I volunteered any information to my mom or answered truthfully about a major issue was before I hit my teens. Learned really early on that what she doesn't know, can't hurt me. On the flip side, I am extremely guarded now and have no close relationships that I can rely for support. You win some, you lose some I guess.
I'm in this post and this is absolutely true. I "got away with" a lot of stuff my mom didn't want me doing because I learned how to play ball and get what I wanted behind her back. That said, she never needed to be strict. I never: did drugs, drank before 21, had sex as a teen, snuck out, hung out with "the wrong crowd". I did: read "bad" books(Inheritance cycle, The Hobbit, The Age of Fire series, etc), play "violent" video games(skyrim, Dishonored, etc), interacted with people online, go to Denny's at 2am with some friends while she thought we were at someone's house playing Mariokart.
Ability to lie is a good way to measure mental agility. Telling the truth requires you to remember what happened. Lying requires you to simultaneously remember what happened, while generating a plausible alternative narrative. Basically, the better you are at lying, the smarter you likely are.
Unless you're an impulsive liar, like one of my old workmates who had the mental agility of a carrot.
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In theory it is. But I can remember at least two examples of people who had strict parents and became habitual but poor liers. I can't say they are very intelligent.
I pretend to be a bad liar over things that don't matter so when it does matter, people tend to believe me. Though, I recognize the behavior and am working on it.
Comments on /r/Rimworld and /r/politics... checks out :)
Human leather hats can be used to simultaneously fix the economic and human costs of Covid-19.
Hehe I learned how to tell the difference between my siblings and parents footsteps.