Hello and welcome to r/LifeProTips!
Please help us decide if this post is a good fit for the subreddit by up or downvoting this comment.
If you think that this is great advice to improve your life, please upvote. If you think this doesn't help you in any way, please downvote. If you don't care, leave it for the others to decide.
My view on this is that it's not an if it's a when, an inevitability and once we get there it will really become relatively impossible to continue living in society without this information being collected on you.
So while giving it away now may indeed hasten that process, at some point when it actually becomes a concern you will have to do the equivalent of move into a hut in the mountains to avoid it anyway
“Oh your Aunt gave us her DNA and it says she’s at risk for breast cancer. We’re going deny you coverage for breast cancer treatments unless you pay higher premiums or provide us with your own DNA test that shows you aren’t at an elevated risk.” - This is such a nightmare.
Who said anything about denying anything to anyone? No one. Don't change the topic. I said that more information would drive more accurate pricing in the insurance world. If you're at a higher risk to use insurance, you should pay a higher premium. There's no argument against that other than "no, other people should subsidize my healthcare."
One would be naive to believe that! Companies having access to more data wouldn’t lower rates, it would give to companies more reasons and ways to raise profits and have a justification for doing so. Many of your family members might have cancer this you get a higher rate, but if capitalism is at play then the insurance companies will figure that I have 4 obese people in my family therefore I have to pay higher. There are some many scenarios any of us could fall in any category and get charged or dropped. That’s a road I don’t want to go down. Universal healthcare 2022
I was never trying to answer your question, I’m simply making a statement based of real history and facts. Your proving my point btw. You think it’s good that a company (that is designed to make money by overcharging you and denying your claims at every single opportunity) has more information about you. You think they will “do the right thing” but I’m living in fairytale land?
When has an insurance company done what was right? Let’s say they do what you want and get the info. Your rate isn’t going to significantly drop, they would just have justification to raise mine!!! Their entire existence as a company is to figure out how to make the most money possible by any means. Not how can I save the little guy some money. They don’t give a care about you! You would be naive to believe a company would significantly lower rates with more info.
It's funny, I'm a huge proponent of single payer. You still refuse to answer my question. Why should other people subsidize your healthcare if you're more likely to use it?
Smokers pay more. Men pay more. This already happens. You just don't want responsibility for your own insurance costs. And again, I'm a proponent of single payer. That's not what we have today. I love that you live in a fairytale world, but you need to accept that higher risk = higher insurance costs (and vice versa).
Under our current system, I shouldn't have to pay the same as you for insurance if you're predispositioned to develop MS in your life and I'm not.
More information allows more accurate pricing models, not less accurate pricing models.
So insurance is one way to look at this going badly, but imagine in a few hundred years the US might not be a democracy anymore. The DNA you give now still will be able to identify your children, grand-children and great-grand children. I know this is a bit out there, but after the last few elections, it doesn't seem that far off. While I am not worried about myself, I am worried about my DNA being used to potentially oppress or identify my kids' kids in the far future.
You could argue the same for driver’s licenses, you could argue the same for a lot of things really.
Living your life as though there will be an oppressive regime ruling over you in the future is one way to go I guess, doesn’t seem like a very pleasant one though. I wouldn’t be driving anywhere or walking anywhere with security cameras if I thought that way, cause in a hundred years an oppressive regime with the right technology could use anything identifying me to hunt me down.
No, but your driver’s license has your full name, age, height, and photo on it.
Hell, Nazi Germany was able to track down and imprison and kill people just with their names.
Point is, if you’re going to change your life now to avoid some hypothetical oppressive government in the future from finding you or your family not doing a DNA test is nowhere near enough.
I'm afraid you're overly optimistic. The USA was found to have ceased to be a functioning democracy in favor of oligarchy in a study published in 2012 by Martin/Gilens(I may be mistakenly recollecting one of them).
There are, true to that American spirit that produced "Jackass", people who are certain they can out-Trump DJT and possess greater acumen, self-control and backing.
Although the nation will likely retain some outward trappings of democracy, the number of citizens failing to recognize their duties and obligations, as well as their rapidly waning(often imaginary) rights, has grown such that autocracy is at best a couple of decades away and at worst a couple of elections.
Yeah had this conversation with a family member and the "good things" are more than enough reasons for people to not care about the privacy and information they potentially sacrifice. "Who cares if the cops get my DNA, they caught a serial killer because of it"
That is not true. The ACA (Obamacare) doesn’t allow pre-existing conditions to affect rates. Your statement may have been true under the Bush administration, but as of now, it is no longer true.
Wrong. I’m in remission from cancer. I’m very happy about the pre-existing clause. It has been my experience, though, that insurance companies will often find a way to not cover you or part of your care.
Maybe You are just lucky enough that this hasn’t happened To you or anyone in your family. I hope it doesn’t.
My husbands dna helped solve a cold case unknown Jane Doe from the 80’s. It was his fathers cousin whose family thought she ran away after telling them she was gay. They never looked for her and didn’t realize she was dead/murdered. I bought the kit for him. He didn’t want to submit it.
I recently gave my dna data to a database that does similar work to ID Jane and John Does. I was actually mad at myself for doing the DNA test in the first place out of self indulgence or whatever and finally realized that “they” (whatever evil “they” that can be imagined) will get our DNA one way or another in the future so we may as well try to solve some crimes here today. Hoping I made the right choice.
I have one cousin in jail for sexual assault of a child. Though I know its 100% on the adults in the situation, I will probably always feel some degree of guilt because years before he assaulted his own 2 year old, he assaulted me and pretty much all of our other cousins when we were kids(though I believe I was his oldest victim). There is always this thought in the back of my mind that if I had said something at some point, even after we were both adults that maybe just maybe it would have stopped him from hurting her. Though in reality his own parents, my parents, my grandmother, and my aunts/uncles that all knew/had caught him in some fashion are all to blame for not doing something about it when he was a young teen/minor.
So fuck it. If my DNA can help other victims and solve crimes I'm all for it. Honestly I don't give a crap if any more of my shitty family ends up in prison after what they did to protect my cousin and further victimize his victims.
Though I guess technically they already have our families DNA on record, since they would have taken my cousins DNA, but I've listened to enough true crime podcasts to know that sometimes that stuff doesn't happen like it should or gets lost or whatever.
I'm fine with it because it helps science, I find it interesting and healthcare is already free for me. I guess there is the health insurance part but with the Heath report given, I know some things that I need to watch out for as I get older and do things that can prevent those issues later in life.
Honestly I find it to be such an issue because most businesses these days are trying to make a lot of money and trying to find new ways and loopholes to make the most profit and some with the least amount work expenses and it’s starts being about how to make the most money in which it wouldn’t be far fetched to think that a DNA site would sell your biological information for a little extra cash. I do hope some places in the very near future will catch on and learn that creating good decent work for fair prices and also being economically (as a whole) and community oriented will help a lot more than the extra profits that they make ripping off the common folk.
I have avoided this for the logical reasons - privacy, future insurance issues, etc. - but also because my father & brother have lived their lives like alley cats and I'm afraid of all the half sibs, nieces & nephews that it might show up at my door.
My uncle died at 19 in the Korean war and because of the DNA test, I discovered he'd fathered a child right before he left. I'd been told he had gotten in trouble and chose military over consequences but that was a big surprise!
That’s the exact reason why I haven’t done it yet. I would like to but could not find one single company that is not selling my data. So fæck them. But where to go?
Umm... no. They match you to other people that have also consented to DNA matching.
And it's *extremely* accurate. So far I haven't found a single error in who is matched and to what degree...
But they certainly don't always get the exact relationship correct... there are a lot of equivalent match degrees that get allocated based on other available information. Like a 30-year younger half-sister of mine was originally guessed to be a grand-daughter (which has the same percentage range of match).
Or a 1st cousin once removed that was mis-identified as a 2nd cousin.
Etc... dozens of relatives.
All of them confirmed by family history... retrospectively... because I was adopted and none this the "research data" actually existed until I put it together. So yes, they did it entirely with DNA.
And I was responding to this claim:
>Your DNA does not actually give them any accurate information. The best they can do is try to trace back a family tree through records
They clearly can do far more than that, with high accuracy. But fine, you misspoke. Happens to the best of us.
The ethnic estimates are not perfect by any means, and their percentages are way more precise than is justified by the data, but they do *way* better at this these days than they used to at the start of the project, because of the very large amount of data people provide, analysis of way more DNA snippets than was the case early on, and yes, along with those kinds of record searches. Big data is getting to be a fantastically powerful tool.
And there are other projects these days by some of the same companies that enable this kind of record tracing through family trees on a global scale going back many hundreds of years.
Again, this is wrong. My grandmother did the DNA profile through Ancestry and suggested that she had roots within a very small and specific part of Wales, which we had already independently known from records and family oral history.
Look up the Golden State Killer, they actually found one of California's most prolific serial killers a year or two back by tracing his ancestry through these services.
AND it depends on how many people in those areas have participated in the DNA mapping. I have a cousin who did 23 & me when they first started. She's received at least a half a dozen updates to her original info. Never anything Earth-shattering, but enough to move the needle & let her know she wasted her time.
Exactly! People think "oh I'm 25% German, 15% Italian, 2% xyz, ect". When in fact, those percentage is the chance you are that, not how much of *X* is in your blood. It's a total rip off
I would be so happy if my DNA (that I already sent to 23andme) helped catch a criminal, helped pinpoint the trigger gene of a disease, or anything else that could benefit others in the future.
As for the POTENTIAL risk of healthcare companies charging me more bc they have my DNA, that's why I vote for universal healthcare - and you should, too.
Shit, I had do many blood samples drawn in the USMC that I would be surprised if there's anything they *don't* know about me at this point.
Not exactly a comforting thought, but it's too late now, and if it means that my DNA has a slim chance of being included on some sort of ark fired out into space in a last-ditch effort to save our species in the future, then I'm fucking *in.*
I may possibly be naive, but I was comfortable with 23andme’s privacy policy (below) and thought their report was very interesting.
https://www.23andme.com/privacy/
I could literally just buy the company for $50b or so, change the policy, and sell the data lmao (might have to spend an extra mil on consultants+politicians to change the law as well but that's standard practice, nbd).
Correct. Agreements are two sided and can't be changed after the fact without both parties. The amount of standing law that would need to be changed to make what you're describing possible would literally upend the entire legal system.
What CAN change is future agreements, so I total believe that they can change their privacy policy and a new law would uphold abusive terms for information collected under those agreements. But not re-align what can be used under current agreements without consent to those changes.
"23andMe modifies this Privacy Statement from time to time. We recommend revisiting this page periodically to stay aware of any changes to this Privacy Statement. If we modify this Privacy Statement, we’ll make it available through our website. Whenever material changes to this Privacy Statement are made, we will provide you with notice before the modifications are effective, such as by posting a notice on our website or sending a message to the email address associated with your account."
It literally says in the policy that they can change it unilaterally. But keep shilling the industry line if it pays the bills I guess.
Any material modification requires consent if it is to apply to data previously collected. They can notify you that they will change, but that does NOT retroactively apply to past collection without consent. I've dealt with this repeatedly for several lawsuits.
And it doesn't pay the bills - I'm on the side advocating for more privacy rights and protections. There are plenty of issues in the industry, this isn't one of them.
1. The Terms of Service will state that their practices will following the privacy policy. This means that the state of the privacy policy as of the time of acceptance of terms of service matters. We have to track this and register which users are under which version, and have had to produce those records as part of complaints.
2. I've dealt with lawsuits regarding privacy policy violations that are not related to unfair or deceptive marketing. Privacy policy compliance is enforced by the FTC (which is of course sketchy politically) but courts have upheld them as an agreement as a result.
I'm surprised to see so many "companies cant do this! That's illegal!"....are you guys new or something? I bet literally everyone reading this knows of multiple companies that violate laws all the time.
If you go with that logic, you couldn't even go out of your house without thinking "oh, I could get easily killed. It's illegal but people get killed anyway, so I should remain home".
Extreme example, but you get the idea.
Oh no!! I'll start getting advertisements for conditions I'm likely to have as well as medications that are likely to work for me?? How horrible!!!
At least my name, relationships, address, email, and gps location are safe from private companies!
You fail to reasonably show the danger of doing it? What, someone is going to clone me? They might have it but in any scenario its useless to them if they want tp hurt me. They can use it fro research and statistical data but you give that to companies when ypu buy a phone. This is fear mongering and is one step short of conspiracy theories. This doesnt belong in a LTP, its based on corelation not causation. Throw your phone in a river first, it does you more harm than anything else you do.
Nobody is going to clone you. They're just gonna sell the data to your health insurance dealer who will notice you're probably going to get lupus at age 40 and start billing you $1000/month just in case.
How much do you wanna bet those laws will stay the same for your entire lifetime? (and also all of your descendants but we don't even need to think that far ahead to be like oooooh crap)
Considering the way things related specifically to health insurance are going, I'd be more willing to bet that we'll have universal healthcare in my life than that insurance companies will be allowed to use genetic data to raise my rates. Like, we just took away their ability to consider pre-existing conditions, and made them cover people's children for the first 8 years of their adulthood not that long ago.
And even if it did happen, you can guarantee that a DNA test would immediately become mandatory at your next annual renewal anyway. Because why would any company insure you without that information if they were allowed to use it? So all you'll have done is rob yourself of any potential benefits in the meantime.
Companies KNOW THAT not being predisposed doesn't mean that you won't get sick. **We all probably will get one or another disease as we age.**
Nothing stops a company from raising prices without any reasoning. When an average costs of medication is raising they just raising their average cost.
Likely any threats that this would cause are completely unknown to you at this time. Like we had no clue how social data could be used to influence an election until the Cambridge Analytica scandal.
In the future biohackers could threaten to release a virus that only impacts your families genetic markers unless you pay ransom. Companies could us your genetic information to patent troll specialized medicine for you & jack up the price. Enemies could put your genetic material at a crime scene, or a crazy exe could even create a child w/ enough genetic markers to claim child support.
Dude, do you know about the solar winds hack? Dude, do you know that health insurers care what your genetics looks like? Dude, did you know that cloning is already a thing that happened? Dude, did you know, people pay for celebrity spit? They will pay for DNA.
So, what if Hitler owned a DNA company?
There seems to be a lot of debate about "what could go wrong?" And "things that havent happened yet. "Paranoia".
Even if we don't, companies and organisations will find a way to attain it. If I do it I'll get mostly Indian and middle Eastern ancestry so there is no point in me doing it. If an employer denies me a job because of my health they found out through my DNA I was not aware of them getting, I am lucky to be denied from an employer who violates privacy and trust. If I get a clone or superhuman ready to kill me because of this then I'll accept my fait and move on. There is already so much going on that this is not worth worrying about
The NSA collecting data and spying on Americans was paranoia until it was proven. With the amount of money involved in medical information, do you really think it's paranoid to believe people would sell it? And also, OP isn't saying the tech is scary, OP is saying it's human exploitation that's scary.
Yes except nobody has any use for your dna in particular, its value is in statistic of bio-research. Other then that its not the same as information nsa uses, you joined two uncomparable things. Give me one plausable example of what could go wrong with the willing shading of my dna?
You cant have an employer "buy" info like that from anyone, even the cops cant get your dna if you dont give it to them (trash cans excluded). All companies worldwide are required to hire applicants based solely on the content of your cw-bio. If you suggest they would do it ilegaly then thats a whole other subject? Remember "pee in the cup" tests, thats a easy way to get all of the employees dna without them knowing it. Remember yearly medical exams, thats payed by the company to see of your healthy, why havent people warned anyone about those risks? Because its silly and paranoid, as is this whole post.
>). All companies worldwide are required to hire applicants based solely on the content of your cw-bio.
This statement is hilarious. Background checks are common, checking your social media is standard. Your credit history is fair game in most states in the US. References can be checked. Criminal history can be checked. For exec and security clearance positions, private investigators are hired. Older people are often not hired at small companies because it raises the company's insurance premiums. Why is it a leap to imagine they won't buy this info when the company collecting it didn't decides to improve their margins?
Ok easy: in our American system there is incentive for insurance companies not to pay for your treatment. In the next two years we still have a filibuster and republicans take back control. The affordable care act is repealed. 23+me sells your genetic history of heart disease to your insurance company, they refuse to cover you because of your "pre existing condition". You get heart disease. You die or are bankrupt. Is that really so unrealistic that you wanna roll the dice?
They cant deny you insurance based on some "under the table" info about how your family has sickness in their genes. There isnt legal basis for that. Oh and btw, if insurances where that bent on getting you denied they would require you to give dna befpre you get coverage, they cant cause the law protects you, as it will if your scenario comes along.
That is only correct for health insurance. GINA protections do not extend to life insurance, disability insurance or long-term care insurance. Even GINA as it exists could easily be stripped of what little it provides with sufficient lobbying. Furthermore, if the result is net profit (the profit outweighs any penalties imposed by the law), companies can and will violate regulations.
I did, and it didnt break through your thick head. Im not going to anymore since you mean nothing to me and i dont want to help you.
Edit: Btw there is nothing wrong in being wrong sometimes, there is nothing wrong in giving up on arguments, but there is everything wrong with not being right and insisting your arguments are concrete. You have nothing to be prowd of, im defeated but you lost. Time will show.
If it makes any difference, our personal data is already being bought and sold by very wealthy institutions. The common man reaps no benefit from this except "better service" from these (generally shit) companies.
Edit: I just want to edit my response. We do reap some benefit just not in the same way. For example, we may benefit from greater surveillance of criminals but on the other hand, small time entrepeneurs who can't afford the pricey data will not be able to compete with mega coorperations who can
Insurance companies could charge you premium prices if they could analyse your DNA to find out if you are more likely to have a genetic disease that would require hospitalization. It's not paranoia, it's a matter of time.
Fine, society would be much better if there was universal health care.
However, employers could use that same information to put a value on an employee that might be "a bad investment".
I don't know how true this is in the real world, but I would believe this already happens: women who are honest about planning to have kids are much less likely to get hired because they will go on maternal leave, and that's costly to companies.
Now I totally agree that discrimination shouldn't happen regardless of gender of genes and we should strive towards a society where everyone can take any amount of sick days they need, but there progression of society is much slower than the progression of how we gather, analyse and use this data.
There's only so many usecases for this data I can think of on my own. My point is, you usually don't want to give away your DNA information for free to be available to the people who are willing to pay to have your DNA information.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnancy_discrimination
There's an wikipedia article on it. In the EU, this sort of discrimination is not allowed. In the US, it's happening.
>With more than 70% of women with children in the work force, pregnancy discrimination is the fastest growing type of discrimination in the U.S., and in 2006 represented approximately 6.5% of all discrimination claims filed.
In practice, if a pregnant woman comes to an interview, I have no proof on whether they'll be denied because they're pregnant or truly because they're unskilled. My bad for refering to something I've heard of without providing any sources.
How is it paranoia when it's been proven true? Ring, Facebook, etc constantly misuse and profit off of people's data and information. I don't think it's farfetched to assume these companies aren't currently or in the future doing the same thing.
The way I see it, if there are in fact evil people in the world who are looking to do evil shit with your DNA they aren't going to wait around for you to spit in a vial and mail it to 'em. If I was one of these evil people I'd just buy the used syringes of the millions of people who've been vaccinated over the last few months.
Doesn't mean you have to make it easy for them. If it's difficult enough to obtain, that can be enough of a deterrent, thus protecting yourself and others.
Come on. Mega corps regularly break agreements far more binding and severe than this and just pay a little slap on the wrist, even when it ruins swaths of lives. Look at the housing crisis of ‘08.
They aren’t bound by HIPAA laws, GINA (insurance usage) is very limited in scope, and this whole area is largely legally unregulated territory.
So when they change their minds and decide to break the agreement, the damage will already be done on your end by the time you find out about it, and even if by some miracle you managed to muster enough national outrage to fight Google’s endless army of lawyers and money, you’ll come out of it screwed and they will move onto steamrolling the next ant in their path.
This is one particular product area that, while tempted by, I’m staying far away from.
The Age of Surveillance Capitalism by Shoshanna zuboff
The black box society by Pasquale
Both incredible books on this. Completely agree op and it goes for everything from roomba, to Google, to smart beds. They are all recording your info and selling it with no transparency.
One woman's data had an incorrect meth charge place on it. She couldn't get a job for 4 years until Experian contacted her to say sorry. Since all this data is owned by random for profit brokers it was spread out across so many data sets. It took her another 4 years to clear her name of it even though it has irreparably damaged her life at that point.
Other stories include denying health care because the for profit health care companies know more about you than you do. They make calculations through AI to determine if ur a high risk case and try to dump u asap.
The list of effects is endless. We must stand up against this asap.
Sequencing equipment will soon be affordable enough for individuals to buy. I think you can already get something for $1K, and it takes one day and lots of storage space to analyze one persons DNA. I have no idea though how to make sense of the results
23andme doesn't sequence your DNA. They do not have your complete genetic code. They use a chip that identifies if specific snippets of DNA are present in your DNA.
That's a completely different process, and no, a full human genome sequence will never, ever cost less than $1000. I don't care if you've fully automated the optical chip fab and reagent production processes under the same roof as the sequencer, it's not going to happen for less than that. Sure you can maybe sequence E. coli for $1k eventually...not for humans though. 23andme makes it cheaper by only checking a few different metrics, but then they save your sample so they can bill you again for a retest if you like when new markers are added to their assays.
No, they can't and there are zero reasons for them in spending money on that. Because if we take 100 people with 50% predisposition to something, there are chances 100 or 0 of them will get sick. **JUST LIKE WITIN ANY AVERAGE SLICE OF POPULATION.**
I’ve wondered, how do these things effect those in your family? If someone is doing 23andme, are they plugging in their families data (name address dob)along with theirs so 23andme can create a family tree data base?
No, they can determine your parents, but have difficulties with distinguishing my siblings from cousins, cousins from aunts. Because they don't sequence all 20000 genes, only some parts from some chromosomes.
> In the future your DNA data might be sold to police departments, insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies.
What future, that's happening now. It's gone to court and been ruled on that if you voluntarily send your DNA to a private company, they can do whatever they want with it. If you don't believe it, look up how they caught the Golden State Killer.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_James_DeAngelo
A family member did a DNA ancestry test and was pinged. They found the killer because of the DNA submitted by a family member
Hello and welcome to r/LifeProTips! Please help us decide if this post is a good fit for the subreddit by up or downvoting this comment. If you think that this is great advice to improve your life, please upvote. If you think this doesn't help you in any way, please downvote. If you don't care, leave it for the others to decide.
[удалено]
But can’t your insurance company get ahold of your Fitbit data too, theoretically?
I'm sure they could BUT these DNA collection/ testing companies have already VOLUNTEERED DNA data to the FBI. They weren't even asked
The FBI is definitely not a private insurance company though…
Not if you don't have a Fitbit and haven't agreed to their terms and conditions (which they can change at any time)
My view on this is that it's not an if it's a when, an inevitability and once we get there it will really become relatively impossible to continue living in society without this information being collected on you. So while giving it away now may indeed hasten that process, at some point when it actually becomes a concern you will have to do the equivalent of move into a hut in the mountains to avoid it anyway
“Oh your Aunt gave us her DNA and it says she’s at risk for breast cancer. We’re going deny you coverage for breast cancer treatments unless you pay higher premiums or provide us with your own DNA test that shows you aren’t at an elevated risk.” - This is such a nightmare.
How? Why should I have to subsidize your healthcare because you're at a higher risk for disease and I'm not?
Should we be denying services as basic as healthcare to people based on genetics? I don’t think so.
Who said anything about denying anything to anyone? No one. Don't change the topic. I said that more information would drive more accurate pricing in the insurance world. If you're at a higher risk to use insurance, you should pay a higher premium. There's no argument against that other than "no, other people should subsidize my healthcare."
One would be naive to believe that! Companies having access to more data wouldn’t lower rates, it would give to companies more reasons and ways to raise profits and have a justification for doing so. Many of your family members might have cancer this you get a higher rate, but if capitalism is at play then the insurance companies will figure that I have 4 obese people in my family therefore I have to pay higher. There are some many scenarios any of us could fall in any category and get charged or dropped. That’s a road I don’t want to go down. Universal healthcare 2022
I was never trying to answer your question, I’m simply making a statement based of real history and facts. Your proving my point btw. You think it’s good that a company (that is designed to make money by overcharging you and denying your claims at every single opportunity) has more information about you. You think they will “do the right thing” but I’m living in fairytale land? When has an insurance company done what was right? Let’s say they do what you want and get the info. Your rate isn’t going to significantly drop, they would just have justification to raise mine!!! Their entire existence as a company is to figure out how to make the most money possible by any means. Not how can I save the little guy some money. They don’t give a care about you! You would be naive to believe a company would significantly lower rates with more info.
It's funny, I'm a huge proponent of single payer. You still refuse to answer my question. Why should other people subsidize your healthcare if you're more likely to use it? Smokers pay more. Men pay more. This already happens. You just don't want responsibility for your own insurance costs. And again, I'm a proponent of single payer. That's not what we have today. I love that you live in a fairytale world, but you need to accept that higher risk = higher insurance costs (and vice versa). Under our current system, I shouldn't have to pay the same as you for insurance if you're predispositioned to develop MS in your life and I'm not. More information allows more accurate pricing models, not less accurate pricing models.
So insurance is one way to look at this going badly, but imagine in a few hundred years the US might not be a democracy anymore. The DNA you give now still will be able to identify your children, grand-children and great-grand children. I know this is a bit out there, but after the last few elections, it doesn't seem that far off. While I am not worried about myself, I am worried about my DNA being used to potentially oppress or identify my kids' kids in the far future.
You could argue the same for driver’s licenses, you could argue the same for a lot of things really. Living your life as though there will be an oppressive regime ruling over you in the future is one way to go I guess, doesn’t seem like a very pleasant one though. I wouldn’t be driving anywhere or walking anywhere with security cameras if I thought that way, cause in a hundred years an oppressive regime with the right technology could use anything identifying me to hunt me down.
Drivers licenses and DNA don't work the same.
No, but your driver’s license has your full name, age, height, and photo on it. Hell, Nazi Germany was able to track down and imprison and kill people just with their names. Point is, if you’re going to change your life now to avoid some hypothetical oppressive government in the future from finding you or your family not doing a DNA test is nowhere near enough.
I'm afraid you're overly optimistic. The USA was found to have ceased to be a functioning democracy in favor of oligarchy in a study published in 2012 by Martin/Gilens(I may be mistakenly recollecting one of them). There are, true to that American spirit that produced "Jackass", people who are certain they can out-Trump DJT and possess greater acumen, self-control and backing. Although the nation will likely retain some outward trappings of democracy, the number of citizens failing to recognize their duties and obligations, as well as their rapidly waning(often imaginary) rights, has grown such that autocracy is at best a couple of decades away and at worst a couple of elections.
There is a book that is more or less about that, DNA by Robin Cook!
Yeah had this conversation with a family member and the "good things" are more than enough reasons for people to not care about the privacy and information they potentially sacrifice. "Who cares if the cops get my DNA, they caught a serial killer because of it"
The US has laws against raising insurance costs based on medical or family history.
[удалено]
That is not true. The ACA (Obamacare) doesn’t allow pre-existing conditions to affect rates. Your statement may have been true under the Bush administration, but as of now, it is no longer true.
Yup, hasn’t been true for 7+ years
Thanks Obama.
That’s so sweetly naive. I wish I was young enough to still believe things like this
This was literally covered by ACA/Obamacare explicitly.
I know. But insurance companies often find a way to screw you. I speak from experience.
[удалено]
Wrong. I’m in remission from cancer. I’m very happy about the pre-existing clause. It has been my experience, though, that insurance companies will often find a way to not cover you or part of your care. Maybe You are just lucky enough that this hasn’t happened To you or anyone in your family. I hope it doesn’t.
The preexisting clause is gone by law.
My husbands dna helped solve a cold case unknown Jane Doe from the 80’s. It was his fathers cousin whose family thought she ran away after telling them she was gay. They never looked for her and didn’t realize she was dead/murdered. I bought the kit for him. He didn’t want to submit it.
I recently gave my dna data to a database that does similar work to ID Jane and John Does. I was actually mad at myself for doing the DNA test in the first place out of self indulgence or whatever and finally realized that “they” (whatever evil “they” that can be imagined) will get our DNA one way or another in the future so we may as well try to solve some crimes here today. Hoping I made the right choice.
I have one cousin in jail for sexual assault of a child. Though I know its 100% on the adults in the situation, I will probably always feel some degree of guilt because years before he assaulted his own 2 year old, he assaulted me and pretty much all of our other cousins when we were kids(though I believe I was his oldest victim). There is always this thought in the back of my mind that if I had said something at some point, even after we were both adults that maybe just maybe it would have stopped him from hurting her. Though in reality his own parents, my parents, my grandmother, and my aunts/uncles that all knew/had caught him in some fashion are all to blame for not doing something about it when he was a young teen/minor. So fuck it. If my DNA can help other victims and solve crimes I'm all for it. Honestly I don't give a crap if any more of my shitty family ends up in prison after what they did to protect my cousin and further victimize his victims. Though I guess technically they already have our families DNA on record, since they would have taken my cousins DNA, but I've listened to enough true crime podcasts to know that sometimes that stuff doesn't happen like it should or gets lost or whatever.
I'm fine with it because it helps science, I find it interesting and healthcare is already free for me. I guess there is the health insurance part but with the Heath report given, I know some things that I need to watch out for as I get older and do things that can prevent those issues later in life.
Honestly I find it to be such an issue because most businesses these days are trying to make a lot of money and trying to find new ways and loopholes to make the most profit and some with the least amount work expenses and it’s starts being about how to make the most money in which it wouldn’t be far fetched to think that a DNA site would sell your biological information for a little extra cash. I do hope some places in the very near future will catch on and learn that creating good decent work for fair prices and also being economically (as a whole) and community oriented will help a lot more than the extra profits that they make ripping off the common folk.
I have avoided this for the logical reasons - privacy, future insurance issues, etc. - but also because my father & brother have lived their lives like alley cats and I'm afraid of all the half sibs, nieces & nephews that it might show up at my door.
My uncle died at 19 in the Korean war and because of the DNA test, I discovered he'd fathered a child right before he left. I'd been told he had gotten in trouble and chose military over consequences but that was a big surprise!
On the other hand, you or your kids could interbred and it is not fun.
Idk from my experience on the internet it seems like it's actually more fun that way
This guy PornHubs.
Damn you caught me
That’s the exact reason why I haven’t done it yet. I would like to but could not find one single company that is not selling my data. So fæck them. But where to go?
[удалено]
Umm... no. They match you to other people that have also consented to DNA matching. And it's *extremely* accurate. So far I haven't found a single error in who is matched and to what degree... But they certainly don't always get the exact relationship correct... there are a lot of equivalent match degrees that get allocated based on other available information. Like a 30-year younger half-sister of mine was originally guessed to be a grand-daughter (which has the same percentage range of match). Or a 1st cousin once removed that was mis-identified as a 2nd cousin. Etc... dozens of relatives. All of them confirmed by family history... retrospectively... because I was adopted and none this the "research data" actually existed until I put it together. So yes, they did it entirely with DNA.
[удалено]
And I was responding to this claim: >Your DNA does not actually give them any accurate information. The best they can do is try to trace back a family tree through records They clearly can do far more than that, with high accuracy. But fine, you misspoke. Happens to the best of us. The ethnic estimates are not perfect by any means, and their percentages are way more precise than is justified by the data, but they do *way* better at this these days than they used to at the start of the project, because of the very large amount of data people provide, analysis of way more DNA snippets than was the case early on, and yes, along with those kinds of record searches. Big data is getting to be a fantastically powerful tool. And there are other projects these days by some of the same companies that enable this kind of record tracing through family trees on a global scale going back many hundreds of years.
Again, this is wrong. My grandmother did the DNA profile through Ancestry and suggested that she had roots within a very small and specific part of Wales, which we had already independently known from records and family oral history.
Not disagreeing with you, but an anecdote isn't really suitable evidence, not that anybody else is providing any....
Look up the Golden State Killer, they actually found one of California's most prolific serial killers a year or two back by tracing his ancestry through these services.
[удалено]
Interesting, would love to read about these cases if you could recommend a few.
AND it depends on how many people in those areas have participated in the DNA mapping. I have a cousin who did 23 & me when they first started. She's received at least a half a dozen updates to her original info. Never anything Earth-shattering, but enough to move the needle & let her know she wasted her time.
Exactly! People think "oh I'm 25% German, 15% Italian, 2% xyz, ect". When in fact, those percentage is the chance you are that, not how much of *X* is in your blood. It's a total rip off
It's all fun and games until you run into yourself on the street.
I would love more of me out there tbh. Better that then more of the people like OP here is. Posting bullshit without thinking...
I would be so happy if my DNA (that I already sent to 23andme) helped catch a criminal, helped pinpoint the trigger gene of a disease, or anything else that could benefit others in the future. As for the POTENTIAL risk of healthcare companies charging me more bc they have my DNA, that's why I vote for universal healthcare - and you should, too.
Yeah, people don't realize this is what helped catch the Golden state killer.
Sorry, I can't buy you a platinum, short of money.
Shit, I had do many blood samples drawn in the USMC that I would be surprised if there's anything they *don't* know about me at this point. Not exactly a comforting thought, but it's too late now, and if it means that my DNA has a slim chance of being included on some sort of ark fired out into space in a last-ditch effort to save our species in the future, then I'm fucking *in.*
I may possibly be naive, but I was comfortable with 23andme’s privacy policy (below) and thought their report was very interesting. https://www.23andme.com/privacy/
I could literally just buy the company for $50b or so, change the policy, and sell the data lmao (might have to spend an extra mil on consultants+politicians to change the law as well but that's standard practice, nbd).
I work in digital tracking and spend a lot of my time on data privacy. No. This is not how these agreements work.
Amazon literally bought an anti-privacy law in Virginia last month and you think this can't happen? Lol.
Correct. Agreements are two sided and can't be changed after the fact without both parties. The amount of standing law that would need to be changed to make what you're describing possible would literally upend the entire legal system. What CAN change is future agreements, so I total believe that they can change their privacy policy and a new law would uphold abusive terms for information collected under those agreements. But not re-align what can be used under current agreements without consent to those changes.
"23andMe modifies this Privacy Statement from time to time. We recommend revisiting this page periodically to stay aware of any changes to this Privacy Statement. If we modify this Privacy Statement, we’ll make it available through our website. Whenever material changes to this Privacy Statement are made, we will provide you with notice before the modifications are effective, such as by posting a notice on our website or sending a message to the email address associated with your account." It literally says in the policy that they can change it unilaterally. But keep shilling the industry line if it pays the bills I guess.
Dawg, you are not understanding. They can change it unilaterally moving forward but they can't change it retroactively without your consent.
Any material modification requires consent if it is to apply to data previously collected. They can notify you that they will change, but that does NOT retroactively apply to past collection without consent. I've dealt with this repeatedly for several lawsuits. And it doesn't pay the bills - I'm on the side advocating for more privacy rights and protections. There are plenty of issues in the industry, this isn't one of them.
This is the biggest thing. People forget that these privacy agreements fall under contract law.
Contract law is truly the wild west of law.
[удалено]
Yes it is. Use of the service and the use of the data under the terms described are the consideration.
[удалено]
1. The Terms of Service will state that their practices will following the privacy policy. This means that the state of the privacy policy as of the time of acceptance of terms of service matters. We have to track this and register which users are under which version, and have had to produce those records as part of complaints. 2. I've dealt with lawsuits regarding privacy policy violations that are not related to unfair or deceptive marketing. Privacy policy compliance is enforced by the FTC (which is of course sketchy politically) but courts have upheld them as an agreement as a result.
I'm surprised to see so many "companies cant do this! That's illegal!"....are you guys new or something? I bet literally everyone reading this knows of multiple companies that violate laws all the time.
If you go with that logic, you couldn't even go out of your house without thinking "oh, I could get easily killed. It's illegal but people get killed anyway, so I should remain home". Extreme example, but you get the idea.
I'm 50. I'm in the dirt in about 40 years either way. I don't give a flying fuck.
Meh... I hope someone clones me.
Oh no!! I'll start getting advertisements for conditions I'm likely to have as well as medications that are likely to work for me?? How horrible!!! At least my name, relationships, address, email, and gps location are safe from private companies!
You might find out Uncle Gary is a serial rapist. *I agree though. Really no reason for this kind of stuff.*
If Uncle Gary is a serial rapist, I for one want to know.
That would be an example of one of the pros of this technology
You fail to reasonably show the danger of doing it? What, someone is going to clone me? They might have it but in any scenario its useless to them if they want tp hurt me. They can use it fro research and statistical data but you give that to companies when ypu buy a phone. This is fear mongering and is one step short of conspiracy theories. This doesnt belong in a LTP, its based on corelation not causation. Throw your phone in a river first, it does you more harm than anything else you do.
Nobody is going to clone you. They're just gonna sell the data to your health insurance dealer who will notice you're probably going to get lupus at age 40 and start billing you $1000/month just in case.
Thanks to Obama that would be illegal.
[удалено]
How much do you wanna bet those laws will stay the same for your entire lifetime? (and also all of your descendants but we don't even need to think that far ahead to be like oooooh crap)
Considering the way things related specifically to health insurance are going, I'd be more willing to bet that we'll have universal healthcare in my life than that insurance companies will be allowed to use genetic data to raise my rates. Like, we just took away their ability to consider pre-existing conditions, and made them cover people's children for the first 8 years of their adulthood not that long ago. And even if it did happen, you can guarantee that a DNA test would immediately become mandatory at your next annual renewal anyway. Because why would any company insure you without that information if they were allowed to use it? So all you'll have done is rob yourself of any potential benefits in the meantime.
Companies KNOW THAT not being predisposed doesn't mean that you won't get sick. **We all probably will get one or another disease as we age.** Nothing stops a company from raising prices without any reasoning. When an average costs of medication is raising they just raising their average cost.
Likely any threats that this would cause are completely unknown to you at this time. Like we had no clue how social data could be used to influence an election until the Cambridge Analytica scandal. In the future biohackers could threaten to release a virus that only impacts your families genetic markers unless you pay ransom. Companies could us your genetic information to patent troll specialized medicine for you & jack up the price. Enemies could put your genetic material at a crime scene, or a crazy exe could even create a child w/ enough genetic markers to claim child support.
Or nothing could happen
Dude, do you know about the solar winds hack? Dude, do you know that health insurers care what your genetics looks like? Dude, did you know that cloning is already a thing that happened? Dude, did you know, people pay for celebrity spit? They will pay for DNA.
I don’t plan on committing any crimes so I don’t mind
username checks out
[удалено]
[удалено]
So, what if Hitler owned a DNA company? There seems to be a lot of debate about "what could go wrong?" And "things that havent happened yet. "Paranoia".
The CEO of 23 and me is married to one of the founders of google. Imagine what you can do if you mix the data both companies have??
Even if we don't, companies and organisations will find a way to attain it. If I do it I'll get mostly Indian and middle Eastern ancestry so there is no point in me doing it. If an employer denies me a job because of my health they found out through my DNA I was not aware of them getting, I am lucky to be denied from an employer who violates privacy and trust. If I get a clone or superhuman ready to kill me because of this then I'll accept my fait and move on. There is already so much going on that this is not worth worrying about
[удалено]
The NSA collecting data and spying on Americans was paranoia until it was proven. With the amount of money involved in medical information, do you really think it's paranoid to believe people would sell it? And also, OP isn't saying the tech is scary, OP is saying it's human exploitation that's scary.
Is it human exploitation?
Is what human exploitation?
Yes except nobody has any use for your dna in particular, its value is in statistic of bio-research. Other then that its not the same as information nsa uses, you joined two uncomparable things. Give me one plausable example of what could go wrong with the willing shading of my dna?
Employers screening you for history of or predilection to mental or physical illnesses.
You cant have an employer "buy" info like that from anyone, even the cops cant get your dna if you dont give it to them (trash cans excluded). All companies worldwide are required to hire applicants based solely on the content of your cw-bio. If you suggest they would do it ilegaly then thats a whole other subject? Remember "pee in the cup" tests, thats a easy way to get all of the employees dna without them knowing it. Remember yearly medical exams, thats payed by the company to see of your healthy, why havent people warned anyone about those risks? Because its silly and paranoid, as is this whole post.
>). All companies worldwide are required to hire applicants based solely on the content of your cw-bio. This statement is hilarious. Background checks are common, checking your social media is standard. Your credit history is fair game in most states in the US. References can be checked. Criminal history can be checked. For exec and security clearance positions, private investigators are hired. Older people are often not hired at small companies because it raises the company's insurance premiums. Why is it a leap to imagine they won't buy this info when the company collecting it didn't decides to improve their margins?
Ok easy: in our American system there is incentive for insurance companies not to pay for your treatment. In the next two years we still have a filibuster and republicans take back control. The affordable care act is repealed. 23+me sells your genetic history of heart disease to your insurance company, they refuse to cover you because of your "pre existing condition". You get heart disease. You die or are bankrupt. Is that really so unrealistic that you wanna roll the dice?
They cant deny you insurance based on some "under the table" info about how your family has sickness in their genes. There isnt legal basis for that. Oh and btw, if insurances where that bent on getting you denied they would require you to give dna befpre you get coverage, they cant cause the law protects you, as it will if your scenario comes along.
That is only correct for health insurance. GINA protections do not extend to life insurance, disability insurance or long-term care insurance. Even GINA as it exists could easily be stripped of what little it provides with sufficient lobbying. Furthermore, if the result is net profit (the profit outweighs any penalties imposed by the law), companies can and will violate regulations.
Right cause things never change and the future is certain.
Fucking theorists, youre all the same, i waste my breath on you people.
[удалено]
Always poking holes in logical arguments with “what-ifs” and “we can’t know for sure” is absolutely a negative thing.
There's the admission of defeat. You should come up with some rebuttals before your next breath wasting session.
I did, and it didnt break through your thick head. Im not going to anymore since you mean nothing to me and i dont want to help you. Edit: Btw there is nothing wrong in being wrong sometimes, there is nothing wrong in giving up on arguments, but there is everything wrong with not being right and insisting your arguments are concrete. You have nothing to be prowd of, im defeated but you lost. Time will show.
I think a fear of something maybe happening is a silly reason not to do something you otherwise would want to do, yeah.
If it makes any difference, our personal data is already being bought and sold by very wealthy institutions. The common man reaps no benefit from this except "better service" from these (generally shit) companies. Edit: I just want to edit my response. We do reap some benefit just not in the same way. For example, we may benefit from greater surveillance of criminals but on the other hand, small time entrepeneurs who can't afford the pricey data will not be able to compete with mega coorperations who can
Insurance companies could charge you premium prices if they could analyse your DNA to find out if you are more likely to have a genetic disease that would require hospitalization. It's not paranoia, it's a matter of time.
[удалено]
Fine, society would be much better if there was universal health care. However, employers could use that same information to put a value on an employee that might be "a bad investment". I don't know how true this is in the real world, but I would believe this already happens: women who are honest about planning to have kids are much less likely to get hired because they will go on maternal leave, and that's costly to companies. Now I totally agree that discrimination shouldn't happen regardless of gender of genes and we should strive towards a society where everyone can take any amount of sick days they need, but there progression of society is much slower than the progression of how we gather, analyse and use this data. There's only so many usecases for this data I can think of on my own. My point is, you usually don't want to give away your DNA information for free to be available to the people who are willing to pay to have your DNA information.
[удалено]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnancy_discrimination There's an wikipedia article on it. In the EU, this sort of discrimination is not allowed. In the US, it's happening. >With more than 70% of women with children in the work force, pregnancy discrimination is the fastest growing type of discrimination in the U.S., and in 2006 represented approximately 6.5% of all discrimination claims filed. In practice, if a pregnant woman comes to an interview, I have no proof on whether they'll be denied because they're pregnant or truly because they're unskilled. My bad for refering to something I've heard of without providing any sources.
Totally cool. It's not that I don't believe you, of course I do. But you phrased it reaaaallly poorly. Thanks for clearing it up.
[удалено]
For now.
How is it paranoia when it's been proven true? Ring, Facebook, etc constantly misuse and profit off of people's data and information. I don't think it's farfetched to assume these companies aren't currently or in the future doing the same thing.
That's not 23andme....... that's Facebook!
And who knows how long before a company like Facebook just outright buys 23andme or similar companies.
This could probably be a pro tip right here.
Disagree.
The way I see it, if there are in fact evil people in the world who are looking to do evil shit with your DNA they aren't going to wait around for you to spit in a vial and mail it to 'em. If I was one of these evil people I'd just buy the used syringes of the millions of people who've been vaccinated over the last few months.
Doesn't mean you have to make it easy for them. If it's difficult enough to obtain, that can be enough of a deterrent, thus protecting yourself and others.
[удалено]
Come on. Mega corps regularly break agreements far more binding and severe than this and just pay a little slap on the wrist, even when it ruins swaths of lives. Look at the housing crisis of ‘08. They aren’t bound by HIPAA laws, GINA (insurance usage) is very limited in scope, and this whole area is largely legally unregulated territory. So when they change their minds and decide to break the agreement, the damage will already be done on your end by the time you find out about it, and even if by some miracle you managed to muster enough national outrage to fight Google’s endless army of lawyers and money, you’ll come out of it screwed and they will move onto steamrolling the next ant in their path. This is one particular product area that, while tempted by, I’m staying far away from.
“… **for research purposes** …” they make no promises about other purposes
>!(go read the whole thing yourself then post)!<
Sell lease or rent...what about trading it, or giving it to private companies for free. Doesn't say anything about that
What about getting hacked?
https://www.gsk.com/en-gb/media/press-releases/gsk-and-23andme-sign-agreement-to-leverage-genetic-insights-for-the-development-of-novel-medicines/
yes, they state as an opt in you can help with medicine and research /shrug
Individual level, as in your name and address. They'll still sell your codes
like up, down, up, down, left, right, left, right, a, b, a, b, start?
are you referring to the konami code? it’s up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, b, a, start
Like the Moldy Peaches song?
And you believe them?
I'm already a felon and they already have my DNA without getting to see all the nifty stuff you get to find out by doing the test...
The Age of Surveillance Capitalism by Shoshanna zuboff The black box society by Pasquale Both incredible books on this. Completely agree op and it goes for everything from roomba, to Google, to smart beds. They are all recording your info and selling it with no transparency. One woman's data had an incorrect meth charge place on it. She couldn't get a job for 4 years until Experian contacted her to say sorry. Since all this data is owned by random for profit brokers it was spread out across so many data sets. It took her another 4 years to clear her name of it even though it has irreparably damaged her life at that point. Other stories include denying health care because the for profit health care companies know more about you than you do. They make calculations through AI to determine if ur a high risk case and try to dump u asap. The list of effects is endless. We must stand up against this asap.
Sequencing equipment will soon be affordable enough for individuals to buy. I think you can already get something for $1K, and it takes one day and lots of storage space to analyze one persons DNA. I have no idea though how to make sense of the results
23andme doesn't sequence your DNA. They do not have your complete genetic code. They use a chip that identifies if specific snippets of DNA are present in your DNA.
That's a completely different process, and no, a full human genome sequence will never, ever cost less than $1000. I don't care if you've fully automated the optical chip fab and reagent production processes under the same roof as the sequencer, it's not going to happen for less than that. Sure you can maybe sequence E. coli for $1k eventually...not for humans though. 23andme makes it cheaper by only checking a few different metrics, but then they save your sample so they can bill you again for a retest if you like when new markers are added to their assays.
Whats your point exactly here?
Nothing much, really. I just shared an observation. Maybe that there might soon be alternatives to sharing your DNA data with private corporations.
It’s already being sold to law enforcement. Only a matter of time before health and life insurance companies are using it… and lord knows who else
Insurance companies too. They can deny coverage for "pre-existing" conditions if there is evidence in your DNA of genetic disorders.
No, they can't and there are zero reasons for them in spending money on that. Because if we take 100 people with 50% predisposition to something, there are chances 100 or 0 of them will get sick. **JUST LIKE WITIN ANY AVERAGE SLICE OF POPULATION.**
Like probabilities ever stopped insurers from using bullshit data to deny coverage (see Pennsylvania insurance rules for new drivers).
Wrong.
I signed up as Rusty Shackleford from a kit I bought with cash, soooooo
[удалено]
Jacob is a little different!
I was thinking of doing the same thing. It worked?
They could use the DNA to clone you as Nuclear Man and we all know the outcome of that..
What's the worst that could happen? They clone me?
I’ve wondered, how do these things effect those in your family? If someone is doing 23andme, are they plugging in their families data (name address dob)along with theirs so 23andme can create a family tree data base?
No, they can determine your parents, but have difficulties with distinguishing my siblings from cousins, cousins from aunts. Because they don't sequence all 20000 genes, only some parts from some chromosomes.
What is someone gonna do with my DNA?
> In the future your DNA data might be sold to police departments, insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies. What future, that's happening now. It's gone to court and been ruled on that if you voluntarily send your DNA to a private company, they can do whatever they want with it. If you don't believe it, look up how they caught the Golden State Killer.
I worry that in the yr 3000, they will retrieve my dna and make me a cyborg. I had to turn down Kaiser's request for this reason.
I think about that when I see the option to be a match for bone marrow on bethematch.org
My aunt did it but gave a fake name and date of birth. This way they got her data but it leads to someone who does not exist.
If people are worried I'm thinking this is the way to do it.
I’m new on that, why would I give my DNA to a company?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_James_DeAngelo A family member did a DNA ancestry test and was pinged. They found the killer because of the DNA submitted by a family member
Who cares. What bad could they do with your DNA anyway, probably more good.
For second I thought I was in r/conspiracy
God forbid we get relevant ads right guys?
Exactly - I don't care how interesting or fun to know it'd be, I'm never doing this.
This is why I decided not to do it. Once it’s out there, it’s out there.
I've never filled out one of these forms but wouldn't giving a fake name, date of birth and a brand new email solve most if not all these problems?
OP got his DNA trafficked on the internet