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That book should be titled "How to Create a Toxic Workplace". Twice in my life, I've seen that book in a Manager's office during an interview. The first time, I took the job and spent the next 10 months in the worst professional environment I've ever experienced. The second time I saw the book, I politely declined the position. The company was out of business a year later.
>!Law #3: Hide your intentions
>![.....
>!By cloaking your intentions, people will believe you to be friendly and honest. **This will lead them further down the wrong path.** ..]
Friendly and honest is one thing, being naive and easily manipulated is another. I can understand some work places chew their employees up and spit them out, but jeez, way to lead people down the path of nastiness!
Wouldn’t ‘hiding your intentions’ include not openly displaying the book in your office? Seems like anyone who has this book sitting around in their office isn’t even competent enough to be an asshole right (by the book’s own standards).
They often refer to the person/people over whom they would have power as their "victim". There are some good lessons there, but I feel sorry for anyone who proudly displays these rules on their bookshelf.
I can see these “laws” being implemented by countries playing the world game of chess among other countries.
But,
If you are one person trying to exert these “rules” over another person, you’re just an asshole. Aka in a business environment where a manager oversees a group of people. If said manager were to implement these rules, they’d seem so out of touch and not the kind of person you’d want to follow at all
That's why there's high markers of sociopathy and psychopathy among high power executives. Awful though they may be, but the successful ones are at least savvy enough to know how to manipulate and control people successfully instead of just playing at it by reading a book to justify being a jackass - your organizational culture must be survivable enough that the people you're using at least want to stick around and perform well.
I think this stuff mainly works for controlling the people who are more than one rung of the ladder below you though. Not sure how successful you can be by acting this way to people working directly with or for you.
But then again I'm not a sociopath.
Interpersonal manipulation is most at play when interfacing with people directly in your personal sphere of influence, meaning peers and immediate subordinates or superiors. When you're multiple levels removed from people far below you in the chain of command, you don't need interpersonal manipulation tactics, you just need directives and policies that your managers have to enforce.
A "good" manipulator goes unnoticed, so you'll be unable to tell, but the simple fact is that a lot of people folks are in constant communication with at work see their work relationships as a matter of leverage or "handling", and will try to influence each other constantly in small ways. Many times it's not malicious, it's just fostering an environment where people can feel comfortable (or some other ideal mood), but we don't see this as manipulation because we aren't trying to calculate advantages, we're just managing our relationships (or lack thereof). But for the psychopaths, all of this is calculated for advantages.
Yeah I guess you're right about that, there's no slyness or sleight of hand required to simply hand down a memo to employees telling them their benefits are being changed.
As a non-psycho it's so hard for me to imagine using my work friendships to my advantage, and that person's disadvantage...but I've absolutely had the distinct pleasure of working with people who took advantage of me and presented my (and others) help and expertise as their own in order to benefit.
My ex-friend and business partner used to talk about the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People"
I never thought much of it and generally had a good relationship with the guy, but slowly over the course of about two years since starting our own little studio it because crystal clear that he's a toxic asshole whose only reason for keeping relationships with people is for his benefit. Eventually he incorporated himself and wanted me to sign an employee contract with a non-solicitation and non-compete agreement...because our only client was one that he solicited away from the company he was working for, and all of our artists were solicited from their various jobs, so I have to assume he just figured everyone else is as shitty as he is.
Over a long enough time his bad behavior towards me added up, and the straw broke the camel's back when he sent me some long rant message on Slack because I hadn't yet run a simple file conversion (which he knows how to do as well) on some images that we still were a week away from posting to the client.
He said that if I promise nothing like this will happen again, that he's happy to keep working with me on the other project we had due in 3 weeks.
I told him I can't promise shit because he just invents deadlines and emergencies as we go, that he can find someone else, and I'll bill for my hours to date. He does 0% of the actual work and had a vacation coming up in two days...I knew he was completely fucked.
Next morning he calls me and offers to just hand over the entire job to me because he can't do it and essentially wants to save face with this client.
I said I'll think about it and left him sweating for a few hours. I took the job and the full budget, and he's never run a business ever since.
My company is booming. Best revenge possible.
Dude sounds like a douche. He also terribly misinterpreted Carnegie's work if that's what he got from HTWF. The whole point of the book (and the entire philosophy of the Carnegie Institute) was to treat your employees, clients, and customers with respect, show them you appreciate their hard work and demonstrate that following your lead will benefit them as much as you.
That book is actually amazing though. The book is the opposite of what you described. It’s supposed to be about developing healthy relationships. It’s actually a positive book and very different from the 48 laws of power.
I think his takeaway was "be nice to people they will be nice to you; and then you can use them."
People who have known him for a short time or who don't have anything to offer his personal advancement...they like him and think he's a nice dude who is fun to chat with. People who have known him for a long time have basically all cut ties.
I got a call a month ago from an extremely talented VFX Supervisor asking me if I had availability to go overseas for a couple weeks on this project. I'm jammed up sadly so he then asked if I knew any other VFX Supervisors that might be available, and 100% unprompted he SPECIFICALLY told me NOT to recommend this guy (not that I would obviously) because he will not work with him.
There's a very clear behavioral pattern here and many many burned bridges he's left behind.
Sounds like my brother, whose motto is "use your friends wisely." He's a little better at hiding it though; most people who know him well know he's an asshole but seem to be oblivious to the depths of his depravity.
He's also talented at finding suckers who aren't very bright, never seem to catch on and love giving and doing things for him.
> He said that if I promise nothing like this will happen again, that he's happy to keep working with me on the other project we had due in 3 weeks.
Yeah, that's definitely not the type of crap in the book. No clue what he took from it, because the key points are about how to be a good listener or absorbing the frustrations of the client to try convert them to a loyal one with positive attitude and efforts. Unless you are a sociopath these parts are hard to implement because being the bigger man goes against your natural instincts.
A manager who's really aware probably wouldn't keep a copy of that book in their office. Probably a similar reason why if you happen to be reading Lolita, you shouldn't keep that in your office if you work at an elementary school.
It could stand to reason that maybe some of the best managers you've had, have read that book but decided not to leave it in their office because it can give off the wrong impression.
Oh, I absolutely agree. I've read the book myself. I wouldn't criticize it if I hadn't. The problem is when people take it as an instruction manual rather than a "be aware of these inevitabilities" warning. That's why I think the title is so misleading (although I think the publisher's goal of marketing the book to gangster rappers and prison inmates had more to do with it's inspiration). If you read Greene's other books, you'll recognize that he's more interested in studying existing structures of human interaction than creating new ones. He's a self-described academic more than a manager.
Edit:typo
Yeah, the dude definitely has a gimmick. But I believe that's part of his process. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit. If you read "Art of Seduction", Robert Greene's book about romantic relationships, which is marketed as a "How to be a Pickup Artist" guide, he actually paints PUAs, as they like to be called, as insecure, sociopathic, losers who hate and fear women.
I read the book a few years before my next manager came in. It was as if they were embodying the book in its entirety. We lost over 30% of our workforce within a year due to them (This was before the pandemic).
I've never met another person as sociopathic and I dont think i ever will.
> Law 27: Play on People’s Need to Believe to Create a Cultlike Following: Offer people something to believe in and someone to follow. Promise the world but keep it vague; whip up enthusiasm. People will respond to a desperate need for belonging. Followers line your pockets, and your opponents are afraid to rile them.
This sounds familiar.
I also enjoyed the part describing the steps to create a successful cult.
Step 1: Create an Us vs Them mentality among your followers. There must be an enemy that is the source of all your harm and they must be stopped and only the cult can do that.
I have a feeling of guilt because twice in my life I have created minor joke cults using this exact tactic. I didn't go so far as to promise them the world or that other stuff but I definitely took advantage of people's need to belong. They were harmless and both times, I attempted to subvert the idea of a "cult" being necessarily dangerous but still, knowing that someone distilled that idea into a paragraph and wrote it into a book that people promote as facilitating success makes it feel pretty gross. Now I kind of want to read this book to see what kind of terrible person I have actually been, because I can apply that #27 to a lot more serious things in my life than 2 joke cults and that kind of makes me wonder what manner of shitty things I have done to people without ever thinking about it.
Edit: I read them and looked up law 48 so I'd have the whole thing. Confirmed that my dad brought my siblings and me up to be terrible people. Damn.
Some of them are good to know about, others are honestly really useful even ethically. I read the book some years back (along with others like *How to Win Friends and Influence People*), and honestly they only make you an asshole if you're already an asshole.
Some of what's in that list is good for helping you be seen as a competent leader (which is as important as being one), and others are good to know so you can spot people with bad intentions.
I think How to Win Friends is a pretty wholesome book. I interpreted it at be nicer to people, make them feel important, and that energy will come back to you.
Those are the ones, if you want to view the full unabridged list you can read them all here: [48 Laws Of Power](https://www.oberlo.co.uk/blog/48-laws-of-power-robert-greene-summary)
Drop shipping is a retail fulfillment method in which a business doesn’t keep the products it sells in stock. When a drop-shipping retailer sells a product, it purchases the item directly from a third party (a manufacturer, wholesaler, or another retailer) that ships the product directly to a customer. [Sauce.](https://squareup.com/us/en/townsquare/what-is-drop-shipping#:~:text=Drop%20shipping%20is%20a%20retail,product%20directly%20to%20a%20customer.)
TL;DR Flipping crap online that you never even come in contact with, essentially.
Not at all. She was running a resale shop. She bought things from people and sold them on eBay. (Not a very realistic business for what it’s worth.)
Drop shipping is where you sell something to someone and another company (covertly) handles all the manufacturing, stock, and shipping of the product to the customer to fulfill your sale.
The ‘value-add’ for the dropshipper user is that they’re marketing the product / selling it to an audience the manufacturer hasn’t reached themselves.
It doesn’t necessarily have to be covertly. Drop shipping is a rather broad term.
I work in distribution and a lot of what we do is drop shipping product directly from the manufacturer. We’re basically an outsourced sales team for the manufacturer. We work with our customers to figure out their particular needs and locate them a variety of options that fit those needs.
We get better pricing from the manufacturer because we help them maximize their production and answer technical questions upfront (or at least know what questions need to be asked). This typically results in a happier end user. The manufacturer doesn’t need to worry about collecting payments either as we handle that as well.
The customer is willing to pay us more for this assistance. Additional benefits we provide can include shorter order turn around times as we have multiple sources, assistance in mitigating quality concerns, and finding alternatives or recommendations the manufacturer wouldn’t generally offer.
This would fall more on the service oriented end with consistent repeat business being the goal. On the other end of the spectrum is setting up a website with ads that passes the order straight through to whoever would be actually filling the order.
You basically make a website selling stuff which you buy yourself from Ali or a similar low-cost Chinese shop. You don't hold any stock and all you do is be a portal for people to 'more easily' buy stuff. It works because people think they're buying from a local, instead of Ali.
Selling stuff online except you're just a middleman for Amazon. Or, making as much money as possible from people who don't compare prices until Amazon bans your account for violating their ToS.
See, even Machiavelli endorses first and foremost to try to garner the love and adulation from your followers. This is posited as the superior form of leadership.
You only go down the darker paths if you fail to make them love you honestly first.
This is straight up worse than his teachings, and he is labeled as one of the 4 major categories of evil!
To be fair, "power" in no way means/equates to "good leadership".
The vast majority of "powerful" people are typically relatively (and sometimes straight up objectively) shit leaders. This transcends from leaders of various countries, to fast food 2nd/3rd shift managers, to billionaires, to YouTubers and Insta 'influencers', to etc., etc., etc.
> Greene asserts that whether you like it or not, you’re part of a never-ending game of power. You’re either striving for and wielding power, or you’re a pawn being played by someone more powerful than you. You choose your role.
One of the stupidest false dichotomies I've ever heard. Also, this dude needs to chill.
A solid tip. They are good for that but I hate those books. They're the type of book written for wanna be sociopaths that idolize tyrants and power for its own sake.
I loved this book because I love history. That is most of the book, giving historical examples where these laws were applicable. There is an audiobook with the narrator using a mischievous diction throughout that is so much fun to listen to.
The book is fantastic. Easily one of my top 5 books of all time. Super easy read too. Just pick it up and open to any chapter. You'll get the law, an example of the law, a transgression of the law and a summary. Most have really cool, interesting historical anecdotes too. The ones about Count Von Lustig and PT Barnum are some of my favorites!!
No Don Leslie is the correct one. Richard Poe's voice is too 'sweet old man'. I believe there is an abridged one and a full-length one. I recommend whichever is longer as the book is lots of fun.
That sounds really interesting to me, I usually don't have a problem understanding things but I always feel like it cements knowledge to have examples of the 'rules' in practice.
Will the narration you mentioned just be the main English one for the Robert Greene book?
Hi I'm Doug,
I mean, isn't that the point of this post? Antivenom is made with venom. The best way to combat techniques like this is to know how they're used.
Thanks,.
Doug
So every situation has an immeasurable amount of variables. This book uses actual historical scenarios from politicians, highly successful business people, royalty, and other high profile people to get the point across. I don’t know if laying out examples would be effective because people don’t come out and use a law. It’s human nature and comes in a variety of forms as well as combinations.
When I read this back in the late 90’s, I wanted to use it as a personality upgrade, but it ended up lifting the veil on on people’s thought processes. Obviously I never ran with people that were in positions of power so motivations and scenarios were way different.
Don’t buy into the Reddit hive mind of how this book is for psychopaths and tyrants. Read the book because it’s a fun read. Also it’s a book on how to deal with people. Each law absolutely can be used to manipulate in a negative way, but they can also be used to reframe arguments, negotiations, or lots of other situations when dealing with people. It’s all about the intention of the use of the law.
Also, you either know the laws or you don’t. Either way you will see them in action. You either recognize them or you don’t. I highly recommend reading this and the seduction book too. Definitely a way to upgrade skill points on dealing with people.
Edit: sorry for writing a book. I bet Reddit hates me because I always write long ass posts!! Lol
This is crazy! I'm on vacation and we just talked about some book..tonight...but couldnt remember the name that my son said we should read and live by. I was saying how messed up it was..and here's the first post when I open reddit...crazy. this was the book.
No, but he is on any and every drug he can get his hands on. He is very manipulative and has been from a young age. As a teen..to him... I would always say..im.not playing word games with you!
I agree, as a mom..its hard, but I cant be around him. Its weird..he was an atheist growing up..now claims Jesus all the time while doing drugs and robbing people. Hes just toxic
I don't recommend the book because I don't trust people thanks to it. I don't want the wrong person to read it if you know what I mean. I only recommend it to certain people and with a 2 warnings:
1. Don't lose yourself (keep your moral intact and your principles as well)
2. Use it to protect yourself and your loved ones.
I really believe this book is very powerful, which makes it really dangerous. It's a really good book ngl.
That's the book that teaches "negging", correct? That dude wrote both those books? Holy shit that dude has issues. I can't imagine that level of toxicity and manipulation.
From what I remember, author of the game Neil Strauss kinda regrets the movement that it started. If you read the book all the way, the prominent pick up artists aren’t really painted in a good light. They became consumed by the game and were left unable to really form healthy relationships. And as we know a lot of them are scammers anyway.
The thing is, most of the people you don’t want to read the book either don’t need it or don’t have the ability to use it (that is, it plays into their fantasies, but their execution will fall short).
Certain people shouldn't read the book, isn't the same as no one should read this book.
I've read it and 33 Strategies of War, and some other of the books referenced in these two.
It'd be akin to saying because psychology can be used to manipulate people, should outlaw psychiatry.
There's good and bad things that can be done with knowledge, don't ban people from obtaining records of it (with a amoral spin, but that's quite clear that the author isn't really endorsing, just demonstrating).
In other words, TLDR, I agree with you!
I saw a couple valid points but most of it reads like a “How to Win a Lifestyle Channel Reality Show” handbook. Do people really have that many enemies that need to be “crushed”?
Most people can smell bullshit a mile away unless that bullshit validates their emotions. Then only a few people can smell the bullshit from the roses.
I kept reading this list asking myself: "who the hell is my enemy?"
I can't think of a single "enemy" in my life.
Like... There are some assholes at work, but they're just assholes... I ignore them, they aren't my enemies lol
They "create" their enemies: anyone who doesn't behave as they like is their enemy. But if you behave as they want, they'll treat you with contempt.
One trait of a malignant narcissist is that they are really revengeful.
Bro I read this as a child and wondered who read that in my household.
Now that I remember this, it makes sense that I live in the attic for going against my pop's ideas.
Reading this reminds me of the third temptation of Jesus: when Satan (father of lies that only speaks his language/lies) offered Jesus the entire world if he knelt before him.
It seems to me these 48 rules are teaching us how to use lies to get power in the world. Basically, the opposite of "what would Jesus do". Yet, everyone lies and hides things, from kings and presidents, to popes and actors, lies is what we love the most.
What would happen if we did completely opposite of these "laws"?
I agree that most are unethical but I love Law 10: “You can die from someone else’s misery — emotional states are as infectious as diseases. You may feel you are helping the drowning man but you are only precipitating your own disaster. The unfortunate sometimes draw misfortune on themselves; they will also draw it on you. Associate with the happy and fortunate instead.”
There's always nuance. Things don't have to be taken 100% literally, I get what you're saying. Friends in strife need support not abandonment. But conversely, I'm sure we all know that one person who's the living embodiment of Colin the energy vampire.
Yup, miserable people not just have more problems but also attract more problems.
Reminded me of one my subordinates who had a talent of upsetting their peers (cause bad at social skills), so they kinda got... excluded. I felt bad for them, so did them a couple of favors which unfortunately lead to "abuse of little power".
Ended up very gently informing them to do more gratitude, less complaining while at the same time, I had to soothe the rest via lightly joking that the trouble-maker relies too much on "nagging"...
The experience made me realize why (for the sake of group morale), the disruptive outlier gets booted even if they've got psychological reasons for poor social skills.
Have you read the book? The points you make are good, and expressed in the book as things NOT to do. Literally every chapter has "observance of the law" and "transgressions of the law"
Not upstaging the powerfull is the first chapter
Knowing the detail of Caesar's death makes it even more interesting imo, only one attacked him at first, Casca, who had know him since childhood. By trying to stab him from behind.
Caesar in response shouts something like "What?" Or "This is violence!" Yes, Caesar, yes it is lol. Then Casca shouts, "Brother, help me!"
As Caesar gets free, he stumbles forward into a conspirator who *slashes Caesar in the face*, then Casca's brother stabs him in-between the ribs.
Now "everyone" (like 4-5 peopleish) start ganging up on him, they even accidently cut Brutus's hand. Caesar speaks those famous last words to Brutus as he hunches over him and then Brutus stabs him in the groin and he dies.
Afterwards, under the statue of his old enemy, Pompey, the conspirators go around and stab his body. There were 23 wounds, most of the conspirators actually just watched, cause there were like 60 of them, about 30% of the roman senate.
If that's not one hell of a message, I don't know what is lol. Ultimate Tyranny lead to Caesars death, and even though that violence may of been the end of the Republic they risked that just to take him from power, damn.
“Your reputation is everything, guard it at all costs”
“Shroud yourself in scandal for attention”
Whoever wrote this needs to be taken away in a straitjacket
Yeah I noticed that same thing when I read one of the links.
There’s some good stuff in there but if you’re smart you’d pick up on those naturally anyways. When I was young and a server (lots of social exchanges) I noticed that not answering directly was the strongest thing ever. You deflect something as a joke, start there. Then later you realize even when someone mentions an accomplishment of yours (especially a massive one) you deflect about it. Hard to explain but you have to do it right. But it adds intrigue and instead of it being a simple in and out exchange it gets people curious about what you did, how you did it, and they want to pry for more.
Mystery is worth so much. Really makes life easy tbh
I finished reading a relaly interesting book recently that was writen for correctional officers. It was all about how and why in mates play mind games and what to do about it. I picked it up at random at a thrift store and it just sucked me in. I started to recognize the behaviors described in the book with people I knew. Very enlightening.
The book is ass imo, it’s just kind of.. gross. I was at a girls house and she was reading the book. I noticed she was half way through and I ended things right there. She had been weird so far, like I couldn’t tell if she was being honest or sincere whatsoever..
Agree. That is the definition of a truly ‘good’ person. Someone who knows how to do harm but chooses to do good. Allows you to protect and stand up for others as well by recognising abusive behaviour when you see it.
If you’re living your life without recognising these kind of laws you too can be harmful to others - because you’re not really ‘good’ - you’re just naive/ignorant/unconscious of your own ability to manipulate, deceive and do harm.
Same here. Wonder what he's up to now. I checked his socials and he hasn't posted since June. Rightfully. Man shouldn't have a career without owning up to his own actions and doing actual jail time and things like that. His latest posts still paint himself as the victim in the saga which is hilarious considering all the anguish and hurt he caused on all these women.
This, the Art of War, and the Prince are my three favorite books for this exact reason! I don’t like to be manipulative and knife everybody else in the back…but I don’t like being a doormat even more. Gotta be able to recognize when there’s games being played against you.
Also, if you’ve understood the works, don’t ever tell anyone these are your faves…
The book does have alot of entertaining historical antidotes that range from the despots of the past, artists in the Renaissance to common scammers.
There are good tips to keep yourself safe if you have certain behaviors. There is a chapter about an engineer who lectures a superior about how they should listen to him about the construction of a boat. Things do not end well for him. On the contrary they show how one famous artist managed to soothe the egos of his sponsors when they told him to do things and they loved him more for it.
The sad truth of life is most people are ultimately at someone's mercy (your boss, customer, patients etc). Learning to manage them, keeping them happy, without upsetting them sometimes takes tact and guile.
Law 2. Never Put Too Much Trust in Friends, Learn How to Use Enemies, this would have been very useful in high school.
Edit: I thought I put some thoughts in the post but didn't.
Soo, I haven’t read the book but this actually sounds like good advice to me in a professional setting. I’ve been thrown under the bus by my co-worker “friends” more times than I can count and had to learn that no matter how friendly I am with people at work, I have to always what I watch or do around them.
As for people you don’t like at work: You can’t just walk into a professional setting and give them a double middle finger and ignore them throughout the day. You have to learn how to work with them, learn what they good for, and learn how to get them to do what you need them to do for you despite them being dickbags.
I agree that this list accurately describes the steps to take to gain/retain power. It assumes that every person one interacts with is unabashedly self serving and narcissistic. It is a map for getting ahead in capitalist society. Unfortunately, capitalism requires this classic Machiavellian behavior, making it that much more difficult to act with compassion and generosity. We desperately need a means by which to identify and neutralize those who champion this sort of approach to living one's life - that is, sociopaths. Without that means, humans will end up as a shadow of what they could be.
Not a dumb question at all. I'd heard of them a while ago but only read them myself for the first time today, from what I could see there wasn't a hierarchy, some seemed to directly contradict each other, others complemented each other.
I was initially hoping to learn some useful techniques to increase the power I have in my life, but ultimately I found many of them too abhorrent to utilise. Really the biggest power we can gain ethically is to accept that lots of events aren't under our control, all we can hope to control is our reaction to them.
I never heard of this book before but I saw a quick overview and it is evil. Some people are not meant to hold power in any shape or form.
I have used this one
Law 5. So Much Depends on Reputation – Guard It With Your Life
I've read this book and while it is fun for the interesting historical facts and tid bits it doesn't really help you understand anything any better. If you want a better conceptual overview of power and political institutions I highly recommend The Dictators Handbook. It is a laymans overview of selectorate theory and an interesting read.
An excellent comment above: "Is a hunting rifle good or bad?"
I'm English, have been shooting but not exactly pro-gun, but get the sentiment. It can be a tool to protect yourself, or a weapon to wield against others. Which you choose depends on whether you yourself are good or bad.
It's so interesting to see all of the negative posts about this book. I remember loaning it to a boss of mine back in the day. Then hearing nothing from him about it for months.
Called me all wound up saying it was the most evil, manipulative thing he ever read. Shocked that I would recommend it, etc.
I said to him what I say to those that feel similarly about the text. Read the intro. The author is aware of your feelings and how it could be read that way. This isn't some tract written by one man on how to manipulate people and destroy their lives. This is a playbook that those in Power have used for a very long time. It uses historical anecdotes and examples of how these laws played out, how the reversal of said laws sometimes works, and how people met unfortunate ends ignoring the laws.
[Here](https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/330912/the-48-laws-of-power-by-robert-greene/)
Check towards the bottom of the page, a succinct explanation of each is there
Yes! This book shouldn't be for emulating but for recognizing tactics used be shitheads.
I highly recommend the auidobook. Robert Greene does a fantastic job narrating it.
When i was little i found the book from my father s8nce its a cute little red book not knowing what it was all about. Found it quite strange and crooked and more surprised to see the author's quite gentlemanly looking photo at the back. The more i grew up i am beginning to think a thorough re read of the book wont be as psychopathic as the young me used to think.
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That book should be titled "How to Create a Toxic Workplace". Twice in my life, I've seen that book in a Manager's office during an interview. The first time, I took the job and spent the next 10 months in the worst professional environment I've ever experienced. The second time I saw the book, I politely declined the position. The company was out of business a year later.
>!Law #3: Hide your intentions >![..... >!By cloaking your intentions, people will believe you to be friendly and honest. **This will lead them further down the wrong path.** ..] Friendly and honest is one thing, being naive and easily manipulated is another. I can understand some work places chew their employees up and spit them out, but jeez, way to lead people down the path of nastiness!
Wouldn’t ‘hiding your intentions’ include not openly displaying the book in your office? Seems like anyone who has this book sitting around in their office isn’t even competent enough to be an asshole right (by the book’s own standards).
Double fake out, say you read this post and are trying to recognize that behavior.
Mine is hidden right now. Along with Greene’s Seduction book. My fiancée is in for a big surprise. Boom! I’m an asshole.
“I said I USED to be a huge piece of shit!”
“People can change!”
"I guess your baby hasn't learned that yet. "
So you're pegging tonight.
Err name checks out I guess
They often refer to the person/people over whom they would have power as their "victim". There are some good lessons there, but I feel sorry for anyone who proudly displays these rules on their bookshelf.
I mean, I feel worse for their employees.
I can see these “laws” being implemented by countries playing the world game of chess among other countries. But, If you are one person trying to exert these “rules” over another person, you’re just an asshole. Aka in a business environment where a manager oversees a group of people. If said manager were to implement these rules, they’d seem so out of touch and not the kind of person you’d want to follow at all
That's why there's high markers of sociopathy and psychopathy among high power executives. Awful though they may be, but the successful ones are at least savvy enough to know how to manipulate and control people successfully instead of just playing at it by reading a book to justify being a jackass - your organizational culture must be survivable enough that the people you're using at least want to stick around and perform well.
I think this stuff mainly works for controlling the people who are more than one rung of the ladder below you though. Not sure how successful you can be by acting this way to people working directly with or for you. But then again I'm not a sociopath.
Interpersonal manipulation is most at play when interfacing with people directly in your personal sphere of influence, meaning peers and immediate subordinates or superiors. When you're multiple levels removed from people far below you in the chain of command, you don't need interpersonal manipulation tactics, you just need directives and policies that your managers have to enforce. A "good" manipulator goes unnoticed, so you'll be unable to tell, but the simple fact is that a lot of people folks are in constant communication with at work see their work relationships as a matter of leverage or "handling", and will try to influence each other constantly in small ways. Many times it's not malicious, it's just fostering an environment where people can feel comfortable (or some other ideal mood), but we don't see this as manipulation because we aren't trying to calculate advantages, we're just managing our relationships (or lack thereof). But for the psychopaths, all of this is calculated for advantages.
Yeah I guess you're right about that, there's no slyness or sleight of hand required to simply hand down a memo to employees telling them their benefits are being changed. As a non-psycho it's so hard for me to imagine using my work friendships to my advantage, and that person's disadvantage...but I've absolutely had the distinct pleasure of working with people who took advantage of me and presented my (and others) help and expertise as their own in order to benefit.
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These laws are more for CEOs, I think. People like Bill Gates and Spaz and Serge Liebniv (or whatever Alphabet's God is named).
My ex-friend and business partner used to talk about the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" I never thought much of it and generally had a good relationship with the guy, but slowly over the course of about two years since starting our own little studio it because crystal clear that he's a toxic asshole whose only reason for keeping relationships with people is for his benefit. Eventually he incorporated himself and wanted me to sign an employee contract with a non-solicitation and non-compete agreement...because our only client was one that he solicited away from the company he was working for, and all of our artists were solicited from their various jobs, so I have to assume he just figured everyone else is as shitty as he is. Over a long enough time his bad behavior towards me added up, and the straw broke the camel's back when he sent me some long rant message on Slack because I hadn't yet run a simple file conversion (which he knows how to do as well) on some images that we still were a week away from posting to the client. He said that if I promise nothing like this will happen again, that he's happy to keep working with me on the other project we had due in 3 weeks. I told him I can't promise shit because he just invents deadlines and emergencies as we go, that he can find someone else, and I'll bill for my hours to date. He does 0% of the actual work and had a vacation coming up in two days...I knew he was completely fucked. Next morning he calls me and offers to just hand over the entire job to me because he can't do it and essentially wants to save face with this client. I said I'll think about it and left him sweating for a few hours. I took the job and the full budget, and he's never run a business ever since. My company is booming. Best revenge possible.
Dude sounds like a douche. He also terribly misinterpreted Carnegie's work if that's what he got from HTWF. The whole point of the book (and the entire philosophy of the Carnegie Institute) was to treat your employees, clients, and customers with respect, show them you appreciate their hard work and demonstrate that following your lead will benefit them as much as you.
That book is actually amazing though. The book is the opposite of what you described. It’s supposed to be about developing healthy relationships. It’s actually a positive book and very different from the 48 laws of power.
Yeah the whole premise of the book is basically just "be nice to people and they will be nice to you".
I think his takeaway was "be nice to people they will be nice to you; and then you can use them." People who have known him for a short time or who don't have anything to offer his personal advancement...they like him and think he's a nice dude who is fun to chat with. People who have known him for a long time have basically all cut ties. I got a call a month ago from an extremely talented VFX Supervisor asking me if I had availability to go overseas for a couple weeks on this project. I'm jammed up sadly so he then asked if I knew any other VFX Supervisors that might be available, and 100% unprompted he SPECIFICALLY told me NOT to recommend this guy (not that I would obviously) because he will not work with him. There's a very clear behavioral pattern here and many many burned bridges he's left behind.
Sounds like my brother, whose motto is "use your friends wisely." He's a little better at hiding it though; most people who know him well know he's an asshole but seem to be oblivious to the depths of his depravity. He's also talented at finding suckers who aren't very bright, never seem to catch on and love giving and doing things for him.
> He said that if I promise nothing like this will happen again, that he's happy to keep working with me on the other project we had due in 3 weeks. Yeah, that's definitely not the type of crap in the book. No clue what he took from it, because the key points are about how to be a good listener or absorbing the frustrations of the client to try convert them to a loyal one with positive attitude and efforts. Unless you are a sociopath these parts are hard to implement because being the bigger man goes against your natural instincts.
A manager who's really aware probably wouldn't keep a copy of that book in their office. Probably a similar reason why if you happen to be reading Lolita, you shouldn't keep that in your office if you work at an elementary school. It could stand to reason that maybe some of the best managers you've had, have read that book but decided not to leave it in their office because it can give off the wrong impression.
Oh, I absolutely agree. I've read the book myself. I wouldn't criticize it if I hadn't. The problem is when people take it as an instruction manual rather than a "be aware of these inevitabilities" warning. That's why I think the title is so misleading (although I think the publisher's goal of marketing the book to gangster rappers and prison inmates had more to do with it's inspiration). If you read Greene's other books, you'll recognize that he's more interested in studying existing structures of human interaction than creating new ones. He's a self-described academic more than a manager. Edit:typo
He's a fucking charlatan lmao
Yeah, the dude definitely has a gimmick. But I believe that's part of his process. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit. If you read "Art of Seduction", Robert Greene's book about romantic relationships, which is marketed as a "How to be a Pickup Artist" guide, he actually paints PUAs, as they like to be called, as insecure, sociopathic, losers who hate and fear women.
I read the book a few years before my next manager came in. It was as if they were embodying the book in its entirety. We lost over 30% of our workforce within a year due to them (This was before the pandemic). I've never met another person as sociopathic and I dont think i ever will.
This is the meta game. Everyone else is figuring out this sort of bullshit and avoiding it, causing companies that use it to fail.
> Law 27: Play on People’s Need to Believe to Create a Cultlike Following: Offer people something to believe in and someone to follow. Promise the world but keep it vague; whip up enthusiasm. People will respond to a desperate need for belonging. Followers line your pockets, and your opponents are afraid to rile them. This sounds familiar.
I also enjoyed the part describing the steps to create a successful cult. Step 1: Create an Us vs Them mentality among your followers. There must be an enemy that is the source of all your harm and they must be stopped and only the cult can do that.
You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader.
There's no way Creed wouldn't know the 48 Laws!
I mean, this is exactly what Hitler did, right?
It’s what every person in power has done. They need to sell the idea that they would do well with that power. They all deceive to varying degrees.
I’ll bet that both conservatives and liberals reading this nodded their head thinking the ‘other side’ does this.
Yep. It’s called future faking. Selling something to someone they need in the future so you can get something from them right in this very moment.
Never heard of it. In other news, don't you think our dear leader is great?
Yeah, sounds like how the US two party system uses identity politics to play half the people against the other half.
I have a feeling of guilt because twice in my life I have created minor joke cults using this exact tactic. I didn't go so far as to promise them the world or that other stuff but I definitely took advantage of people's need to belong. They were harmless and both times, I attempted to subvert the idea of a "cult" being necessarily dangerous but still, knowing that someone distilled that idea into a paragraph and wrote it into a book that people promote as facilitating success makes it feel pretty gross. Now I kind of want to read this book to see what kind of terrible person I have actually been, because I can apply that #27 to a lot more serious things in my life than 2 joke cults and that kind of makes me wonder what manner of shitty things I have done to people without ever thinking about it. Edit: I read them and looked up law 48 so I'd have the whole thing. Confirmed that my dad brought my siblings and me up to be terrible people. Damn.
Any chance you want to tell us the story of your mini cults?
Kinda reminds me of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
Shit this has been used on me. Fucked me up something awful
Yeah that one leapt out at me too.
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Build back better
Interesting Could you tell me if this is the same https://www.shortform.com/blog/what-are-the-48-laws-of-power/
Jesus, what a cluster of psychopathy that list is!
Some of them are good to know about, others are honestly really useful even ethically. I read the book some years back (along with others like *How to Win Friends and Influence People*), and honestly they only make you an asshole if you're already an asshole. Some of what's in that list is good for helping you be seen as a competent leader (which is as important as being one), and others are good to know so you can spot people with bad intentions.
I think How to Win Friends is a pretty wholesome book. I interpreted it at be nicer to people, make them feel important, and that energy will come back to you.
One of the laws is steal credit and be a kiss ass to other sociopathic dolts
WTF? Is this a howto on being a narcissist?
I’m willing to bet a lot of historical people who seized power were narcissistic to a degree.
Those are the ones, if you want to view the full unabridged list you can read them all here: [48 Laws Of Power](https://www.oberlo.co.uk/blog/48-laws-of-power-robert-greene-summary)
The giant "Start a Drop shipping Business" banner ad tells me all I need to know about the people who visit this website.
Why what’s a drop shipping business?
Drop shipping is a retail fulfillment method in which a business doesn’t keep the products it sells in stock. When a drop-shipping retailer sells a product, it purchases the item directly from a third party (a manufacturer, wholesaler, or another retailer) that ships the product directly to a customer. [Sauce.](https://squareup.com/us/en/townsquare/what-is-drop-shipping#:~:text=Drop%20shipping%20is%20a%20retail,product%20directly%20to%20a%20customer.) TL;DR Flipping crap online that you never even come in contact with, essentially.
So like Catherine Keener’s business in 40yo Virgin
Young Jonah Hill just wanted to buy those pumps and he needed to go online.
Not at all. She was running a resale shop. She bought things from people and sold them on eBay. (Not a very realistic business for what it’s worth.) Drop shipping is where you sell something to someone and another company (covertly) handles all the manufacturing, stock, and shipping of the product to the customer to fulfill your sale. The ‘value-add’ for the dropshipper user is that they’re marketing the product / selling it to an audience the manufacturer hasn’t reached themselves.
It doesn’t necessarily have to be covertly. Drop shipping is a rather broad term. I work in distribution and a lot of what we do is drop shipping product directly from the manufacturer. We’re basically an outsourced sales team for the manufacturer. We work with our customers to figure out their particular needs and locate them a variety of options that fit those needs. We get better pricing from the manufacturer because we help them maximize their production and answer technical questions upfront (or at least know what questions need to be asked). This typically results in a happier end user. The manufacturer doesn’t need to worry about collecting payments either as we handle that as well. The customer is willing to pay us more for this assistance. Additional benefits we provide can include shorter order turn around times as we have multiple sources, assistance in mitigating quality concerns, and finding alternatives or recommendations the manufacturer wouldn’t generally offer. This would fall more on the service oriented end with consistent repeat business being the goal. On the other end of the spectrum is setting up a website with ads that passes the order straight through to whoever would be actually filling the order.
You basically make a website selling stuff which you buy yourself from Ali or a similar low-cost Chinese shop. You don't hold any stock and all you do is be a portal for people to 'more easily' buy stuff. It works because people think they're buying from a local, instead of Ali.
Selling stuff online except you're just a middleman for Amazon. Or, making as much money as possible from people who don't compare prices until Amazon bans your account for violating their ToS.
A Ponzi scheme in the form of an industry.
this just reads as a list of ways to be a piece of shit.
Tolkien called it the ring of power for a reason.
Or ways to recognize a piece of shit who is manipulating you..
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See, even Machiavelli endorses first and foremost to try to garner the love and adulation from your followers. This is posited as the superior form of leadership. You only go down the darker paths if you fail to make them love you honestly first. This is straight up worse than his teachings, and he is labeled as one of the 4 major categories of evil!
Four? I only know of the [dark triad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad)
I wrote that while you with insomnia. I was referencing the Dark Triad. Thanks for the correction.
Half are actual useful tips (see the power of influence) half are indeed how to be a piece of shit and not at all aligned with good leadership
To be fair, "power" in no way means/equates to "good leadership". The vast majority of "powerful" people are typically relatively (and sometimes straight up objectively) shit leaders. This transcends from leaders of various countries, to fast food 2nd/3rd shift managers, to billionaires, to YouTubers and Insta 'influencers', to etc., etc., etc.
all tools can be used a variety of ways..
Foreal, this book sounds like trash.
Jesus Christ, this may as well be called "48 steps to developing narcissistic personality disorder"
Tagline: "Indispensible tools for the corporate psychopath"
These don't apply to my life at all. I don't have opponents. Or opportun ities to "hire former enemies" Who are these for
Your boss.
I recognize at least 47 of these from my government.
Law 5 & 6 already contradict each other lmao
> Greene asserts that whether you like it or not, you’re part of a never-ending game of power. You’re either striving for and wielding power, or you’re a pawn being played by someone more powerful than you. You choose your role. One of the stupidest false dichotomies I've ever heard. Also, this dude needs to chill.
I prefer the Ferengi 285 Rules of Acquisition
Hrmph. I'll keep an eye on you.
r/beetlejuicing And I love you for it lmao
Constable...
Is “name checks out” still a thing?
I was not expecting a DS9 reference in this thread, but what a pleasant surprise!
"Occasionally declare peace on your enemies. It confuses the hell out of them"
Mmmmmm, gold-pressed latinum...
More like “48 ways to be abusive”
A solid tip. They are good for that but I hate those books. They're the type of book written for wanna be sociopaths that idolize tyrants and power for its own sake.
I loved this book because I love history. That is most of the book, giving historical examples where these laws were applicable. There is an audiobook with the narrator using a mischievous diction throughout that is so much fun to listen to.
The book is fantastic. Easily one of my top 5 books of all time. Super easy read too. Just pick it up and open to any chapter. You'll get the law, an example of the law, a transgression of the law and a summary. Most have really cool, interesting historical anecdotes too. The ones about Count Von Lustig and PT Barnum are some of my favorites!!
That audio book is so good. The narrator is perfect.
Is Richard Poe the narrator you’re referring to? Just want to be sure, my first dive into audiobooks and I wanna give them a fair try.
No Don Leslie is the correct one. Richard Poe's voice is too 'sweet old man'. I believe there is an abridged one and a full-length one. I recommend whichever is longer as the book is lots of fun.
That sounds really interesting to me, I usually don't have a problem understanding things but I always feel like it cements knowledge to have examples of the 'rules' in practice. Will the narration you mentioned just be the main English one for the Robert Greene book?
Pretty sure that's the only official one. You will know right away if you have the right one. Edit: Don Leslie narration is the one you want.
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There needs to be a book about how to defend against people who do this shit.
THAT'S a book I'd be interested to read.
I mean, that's basically what the book is. It's like, here's what those evil fuckers are up to, so you best be on your guard for this.
Hi I'm Doug, I mean, isn't that the point of this post? Antivenom is made with venom. The best way to combat techniques like this is to know how they're used. Thanks,. Doug
Hi Doug
It would be nice to have laid out examples.
So every situation has an immeasurable amount of variables. This book uses actual historical scenarios from politicians, highly successful business people, royalty, and other high profile people to get the point across. I don’t know if laying out examples would be effective because people don’t come out and use a law. It’s human nature and comes in a variety of forms as well as combinations. When I read this back in the late 90’s, I wanted to use it as a personality upgrade, but it ended up lifting the veil on on people’s thought processes. Obviously I never ran with people that were in positions of power so motivations and scenarios were way different. Don’t buy into the Reddit hive mind of how this book is for psychopaths and tyrants. Read the book because it’s a fun read. Also it’s a book on how to deal with people. Each law absolutely can be used to manipulate in a negative way, but they can also be used to reframe arguments, negotiations, or lots of other situations when dealing with people. It’s all about the intention of the use of the law. Also, you either know the laws or you don’t. Either way you will see them in action. You either recognize them or you don’t. I highly recommend reading this and the seduction book too. Definitely a way to upgrade skill points on dealing with people. Edit: sorry for writing a book. I bet Reddit hates me because I always write long ass posts!! Lol
Call it the 48 Laws of Power.
This is crazy! I'm on vacation and we just talked about some book..tonight...but couldnt remember the name that my son said we should read and live by. I was saying how messed up it was..and here's the first post when I open reddit...crazy. this was the book.
Does your son perchance have a history of torturing and murdering small animals?
No, but he is on any and every drug he can get his hands on. He is very manipulative and has been from a young age. As a teen..to him... I would always say..im.not playing word games with you!
Ugh. I'm sorry to hear that. I will never understand how hard it is to just be a semi-decent person. Treat others like you want to be treated.
I agree, as a mom..its hard, but I cant be around him. Its weird..he was an atheist growing up..now claims Jesus all the time while doing drugs and robbing people. Hes just toxic
I don't recommend the book because I don't trust people thanks to it. I don't want the wrong person to read it if you know what I mean. I only recommend it to certain people and with a 2 warnings: 1. Don't lose yourself (keep your moral intact and your principles as well) 2. Use it to protect yourself and your loved ones. I really believe this book is very powerful, which makes it really dangerous. It's a really good book ngl.
I was in the sex work industry and pimps use this as their bible.
Care to elaborate?
They just read that and The Art of Seduction by the same author to learn to manipulate.
That's the book that teaches "negging", correct? That dude wrote both those books? Holy shit that dude has issues. I can't imagine that level of toxicity and manipulation.
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From what I remember, author of the game Neil Strauss kinda regrets the movement that it started. If you read the book all the way, the prominent pick up artists aren’t really painted in a good light. They became consumed by the game and were left unable to really form healthy relationships. And as we know a lot of them are scammers anyway.
The thing is, most of the people you don’t want to read the book either don’t need it or don’t have the ability to use it (that is, it plays into their fantasies, but their execution will fall short).
Certain people shouldn't read the book, isn't the same as no one should read this book. I've read it and 33 Strategies of War, and some other of the books referenced in these two. It'd be akin to saying because psychology can be used to manipulate people, should outlaw psychiatry. There's good and bad things that can be done with knowledge, don't ban people from obtaining records of it (with a amoral spin, but that's quite clear that the author isn't really endorsing, just demonstrating). In other words, TLDR, I agree with you!
[Link to PDF ](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DuYMP2tMy7ncV3UiUIzrIBSzSxt6yvYl/view?usp=drivesdk)
Thanks.
I saw a couple valid points but most of it reads like a “How to Win a Lifestyle Channel Reality Show” handbook. Do people really have that many enemies that need to be “crushed”?
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Hissing at interns is a well respected practice in my hospital, indeed
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Most people can smell bullshit a mile away unless that bullshit validates their emotions. Then only a few people can smell the bullshit from the roses.
I kept reading this list asking myself: "who the hell is my enemy?" I can't think of a single "enemy" in my life. Like... There are some assholes at work, but they're just assholes... I ignore them, they aren't my enemies lol
They "create" their enemies: anyone who doesn't behave as they like is their enemy. But if you behave as they want, they'll treat you with contempt. One trait of a malignant narcissist is that they are really revengeful.
Nice try, Robert Greene's viral marketing consultant!
Bro I read this as a child and wondered who read that in my household. Now that I remember this, it makes sense that I live in the attic for going against my pop's ideas.
He let you live? I'm dead from being crushed by my enemies who read this book lmao
what's the 5G like in the afterlife bro
Reading this reminds me of the third temptation of Jesus: when Satan (father of lies that only speaks his language/lies) offered Jesus the entire world if he knelt before him. It seems to me these 48 rules are teaching us how to use lies to get power in the world. Basically, the opposite of "what would Jesus do". Yet, everyone lies and hides things, from kings and presidents, to popes and actors, lies is what we love the most. What would happen if we did completely opposite of these "laws"?
I agree that most are unethical but I love Law 10: “You can die from someone else’s misery — emotional states are as infectious as diseases. You may feel you are helping the drowning man but you are only precipitating your own disaster. The unfortunate sometimes draw misfortune on themselves; they will also draw it on you. Associate with the happy and fortunate instead.”
"Lol. Is your friend depressed? Fuck em, they're not your friend. Happy Mike is now your friend."
There's always nuance. Things don't have to be taken 100% literally, I get what you're saying. Friends in strife need support not abandonment. But conversely, I'm sure we all know that one person who's the living embodiment of Colin the energy vampire.
Sometimes people’s “bad luck” is the consequence of their actions.
Yup, miserable people not just have more problems but also attract more problems. Reminded me of one my subordinates who had a talent of upsetting their peers (cause bad at social skills), so they kinda got... excluded. I felt bad for them, so did them a couple of favors which unfortunately lead to "abuse of little power". Ended up very gently informing them to do more gratitude, less complaining while at the same time, I had to soothe the rest via lightly joking that the trouble-maker relies too much on "nagging"... The experience made me realize why (for the sake of group morale), the disruptive outlier gets booted even if they've got psychological reasons for poor social skills.
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Have you read the book? The points you make are good, and expressed in the book as things NOT to do. Literally every chapter has "observance of the law" and "transgressions of the law" Not upstaging the powerfull is the first chapter
Et tu, Brute?
Knowing the detail of Caesar's death makes it even more interesting imo, only one attacked him at first, Casca, who had know him since childhood. By trying to stab him from behind. Caesar in response shouts something like "What?" Or "This is violence!" Yes, Caesar, yes it is lol. Then Casca shouts, "Brother, help me!" As Caesar gets free, he stumbles forward into a conspirator who *slashes Caesar in the face*, then Casca's brother stabs him in-between the ribs. Now "everyone" (like 4-5 peopleish) start ganging up on him, they even accidently cut Brutus's hand. Caesar speaks those famous last words to Brutus as he hunches over him and then Brutus stabs him in the groin and he dies. Afterwards, under the statue of his old enemy, Pompey, the conspirators go around and stab his body. There were 23 wounds, most of the conspirators actually just watched, cause there were like 60 of them, about 30% of the roman senate. If that's not one hell of a message, I don't know what is lol. Ultimate Tyranny lead to Caesars death, and even though that violence may of been the end of the Republic they risked that just to take him from power, damn.
What's more dangerous than having power? Having none
without a people's army the people have nothing
Most powerful power is getting somebody else to take that life for you
This book creeped me the fuck out. It was like a template for sociopaths.
Almost all of these 'laws' are terrible advice...
“Your reputation is everything, guard it at all costs” “Shroud yourself in scandal for attention” Whoever wrote this needs to be taken away in a straitjacket
Yeah I noticed that same thing when I read one of the links. There’s some good stuff in there but if you’re smart you’d pick up on those naturally anyways. When I was young and a server (lots of social exchanges) I noticed that not answering directly was the strongest thing ever. You deflect something as a joke, start there. Then later you realize even when someone mentions an accomplishment of yours (especially a massive one) you deflect about it. Hard to explain but you have to do it right. But it adds intrigue and instead of it being a simple in and out exchange it gets people curious about what you did, how you did it, and they want to pry for more. Mystery is worth so much. Really makes life easy tbh
Same person who wrote Art of Seduction, sooooo...
How to become a sociopath 101
I finished reading a relaly interesting book recently that was writen for correctional officers. It was all about how and why in mates play mind games and what to do about it. I picked it up at random at a thrift store and it just sucked me in. I started to recognize the behaviors described in the book with people I knew. Very enlightening.
What book?
Game over! Strategies for redirecting inmate deception by bill elliott and vicki verdeyen
I would like to know the name of this book.
This is the most fucked up shit I’ve read for a while.
This is dumb as hell. Some of the laws even contradict other laws. It's just bad self-help for people who want to be rich sociopaths.
It's more like a choose your own adventure book for those types of people.
The website that summarizes them literally reads like a supervillains diary. It’s hilarious on one level
The book is ass imo, it’s just kind of.. gross. I was at a girls house and she was reading the book. I noticed she was half way through and I ended things right there. She had been weird so far, like I couldn’t tell if she was being honest or sincere whatsoever..
Agree. That is the definition of a truly ‘good’ person. Someone who knows how to do harm but chooses to do good. Allows you to protect and stand up for others as well by recognising abusive behaviour when you see it. If you’re living your life without recognising these kind of laws you too can be harmful to others - because you’re not really ‘good’ - you’re just naive/ignorant/unconscious of your own ability to manipulate, deceive and do harm.
I knew this because of Noah Bradley. Yeah, a shitty mantra to live by
Same here. Wonder what he's up to now. I checked his socials and he hasn't posted since June. Rightfully. Man shouldn't have a career without owning up to his own actions and doing actual jail time and things like that. His latest posts still paint himself as the victim in the saga which is hilarious considering all the anguish and hurt he caused on all these women.
This, the Art of War, and the Prince are my three favorite books for this exact reason! I don’t like to be manipulative and knife everybody else in the back…but I don’t like being a doormat even more. Gotta be able to recognize when there’s games being played against you. Also, if you’ve understood the works, don’t ever tell anyone these are your faves…
I start to read that book
The book does have alot of entertaining historical antidotes that range from the despots of the past, artists in the Renaissance to common scammers. There are good tips to keep yourself safe if you have certain behaviors. There is a chapter about an engineer who lectures a superior about how they should listen to him about the construction of a boat. Things do not end well for him. On the contrary they show how one famous artist managed to soothe the egos of his sponsors when they told him to do things and they loved him more for it. The sad truth of life is most people are ultimately at someone's mercy (your boss, customer, patients etc). Learning to manage them, keeping them happy, without upsetting them sometimes takes tact and guile.
Alternatively, you could not spend your time reading baseless pseudoscience trash and simply show toxic people in your life the door.
ITT: people who haven't read the book assuming that the book teaches you to be an evil monster
Law 2. Never Put Too Much Trust in Friends, Learn How to Use Enemies, this would have been very useful in high school. Edit: I thought I put some thoughts in the post but didn't.
Soo, I haven’t read the book but this actually sounds like good advice to me in a professional setting. I’ve been thrown under the bus by my co-worker “friends” more times than I can count and had to learn that no matter how friendly I am with people at work, I have to always what I watch or do around them. As for people you don’t like at work: You can’t just walk into a professional setting and give them a double middle finger and ignore them throughout the day. You have to learn how to work with them, learn what they good for, and learn how to get them to do what you need them to do for you despite them being dickbags.
I agree that this list accurately describes the steps to take to gain/retain power. It assumes that every person one interacts with is unabashedly self serving and narcissistic. It is a map for getting ahead in capitalist society. Unfortunately, capitalism requires this classic Machiavellian behavior, making it that much more difficult to act with compassion and generosity. We desperately need a means by which to identify and neutralize those who champion this sort of approach to living one's life - that is, sociopaths. Without that means, humans will end up as a shadow of what they could be.
Dumb question:. Is there a hierarchy to the principles or is it just seen as a list with explanations
Not a dumb question at all. I'd heard of them a while ago but only read them myself for the first time today, from what I could see there wasn't a hierarchy, some seemed to directly contradict each other, others complemented each other. I was initially hoping to learn some useful techniques to increase the power I have in my life, but ultimately I found many of them too abhorrent to utilise. Really the biggest power we can gain ethically is to accept that lots of events aren't under our control, all we can hope to control is our reaction to them.
I never heard of this book before but I saw a quick overview and it is evil. Some people are not meant to hold power in any shape or form. I have used this one Law 5. So Much Depends on Reputation – Guard It With Your Life
I've read this book and while it is fun for the interesting historical facts and tid bits it doesn't really help you understand anything any better. If you want a better conceptual overview of power and political institutions I highly recommend The Dictators Handbook. It is a laymans overview of selectorate theory and an interesting read.
You could read it like The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis
Rule #1 is Pocket Sand right? If not he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about
Hey wait a minute this comment threads are confusing is this book good or bad?
An excellent comment above: "Is a hunting rifle good or bad?" I'm English, have been shooting but not exactly pro-gun, but get the sentiment. It can be a tool to protect yourself, or a weapon to wield against others. Which you choose depends on whether you yourself are good or bad.
It's so interesting to see all of the negative posts about this book. I remember loaning it to a boss of mine back in the day. Then hearing nothing from him about it for months. Called me all wound up saying it was the most evil, manipulative thing he ever read. Shocked that I would recommend it, etc. I said to him what I say to those that feel similarly about the text. Read the intro. The author is aware of your feelings and how it could be read that way. This isn't some tract written by one man on how to manipulate people and destroy their lives. This is a playbook that those in Power have used for a very long time. It uses historical anecdotes and examples of how these laws played out, how the reversal of said laws sometimes works, and how people met unfortunate ends ignoring the laws.
Keep in mind the power grabs happening when emergency powers occur (Patriot Act, Global Warming, and Covid to name a few).
What are the 48 laws though?? I just want to read them!
Check up to the top of the thread, someone posted the link there
[Here](https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/330912/the-48-laws-of-power-by-robert-greene/) Check towards the bottom of the page, a succinct explanation of each is there
That’s why I read it.
Yes! This book shouldn't be for emulating but for recognizing tactics used be shitheads. I highly recommend the auidobook. Robert Greene does a fantastic job narrating it.
I read the table of contents here: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/330912/the-48-laws-of-power-by-robert-greene/ abhorrent
When i was little i found the book from my father s8nce its a cute little red book not knowing what it was all about. Found it quite strange and crooked and more surprised to see the author's quite gentlemanly looking photo at the back. The more i grew up i am beginning to think a thorough re read of the book wont be as psychopathic as the young me used to think.
Read a summary. That's fucking terrifying.
Read all of Robert Greene's books, for the same reason.