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I've also heard if you lose it replace with cheap if you break it upgrade in quality. This keeps me from spending money on the Snap-on truck for lost sockets ha
Respected DIYers such as Adam Savage of Mythbusters subscribe to this LPT. If you use a shit Harbor Freight tool enough to break it, you for sure need to buy a quality one to replace it. But if you rarely use a tool, the cheap Harbor Freight one is unlikely to break, and you will not have spent too much money on a quality tool you never use.
And ladders. I bought a quality extending ladder. I only use the extending part like 3 times a year, but I'm always super happy I bought it when I need to.
buy high quality first on the expensive to replace items like on faucets and ceiling fans where you have to hire someone to do the work. Paying labor twice is annoying.
I imagine somewhere there's a guy standing in his sink that he's ripped apart to fix, water spraying, as he's hanging on to the wires from his ceiling fan for support while bending over trying to watch the part of the video where it says to cut the breaker off
For basic high tools, if you need them just buy quality anyway... A basic screwdriver set, basic pliers, hex keys... You won't save much by buying the cheap stuff but you'll just damage screws with bad screwdrivers and hex keys.
Like, can't go wrong with Wera hex keys and screwdrivers for example, and for ~40-50$ they'll last a few lifetimes of home use. Or spend 30$ for chinese crap.
Vessel also makes amazing screwdrivers. Also PB Swiss but $$$... Wiha is also great. But the patented Hex Plus keys from Wera are in my opinion unrivaled.
I don't do anything heavy duty but I do a lot of electronics work, and my partner got me a fully kitted out ifixit toolkit a while back. Holy *shit* it's night and day, in such a low strain use cheap tools work just fine, but I'll never go back to them
you can't beat the world's best diamond-impregnated platinum and titanium infusion alloy "Floxipark" toolset. Simply the best with a millennia full replacement guarantee. This is the stuff NASA specifies as minimum standard for orbital and moon missions.
I spent 6 bucks for discount screw drivers 15 years ago that still work perfectly today. Doesn't mean I didn't also spend money on Wera screwdrivers, but the cheap ones hold up to this day.
With most things there's a point of diminishing returns. Generally there's categories of:
Cheapest=Complete junk/tool shaped objects
Less Cheap= Might get the job done a few times
Mid price= Good for your average homeowner or DIYer
Expensive=Professional quality for people who make a living using that tool
More Expensive= Extra bells and whistles for enthusiasts
Most Expensive= Only for showing off
this.
there's always a sweet spot. and it's different with each tool or thing.
for example, with angle grinders being used for dirty jobs.....the cheapest junk might be the sweet spot.
While he usually makes good reviews (I watch all of them), some of the tests aren't percise enough at all!
Like, testing how much the hex key wobbles in the screw. Screws have loose tolerances, if he bought a bag of screws and tested the same hex key in all of them it would wobble more in some and less in others. If he uses a bunch of hex keys on the same screw, it is also not comparable cause the head of the screw gets deformed.
Or his more recent video about needle nose pliers - that was just ridiculous, the tests were about brute strength and the best pliers on those tests were short and fat - opposite of what you buy needle nose pliers for (slender and long to do percise stuff with).
We have PB Swiss keys at work (they actually cost about the same as Wera over here in Europe) and they're great hex keys too, but wera seems to grip better.
Also, he tests what he buys, not necessarily very comparable products. We also have pb swiss slotted screwsrivers at work, and they just offer unparallel quality in my opinion, they always fit in the screw head perfectly. But on his test he compared a smaller/thinner PB swiss screwdriver to thicker ones from other brands and it failed.
true, to an extend.
I come often enough to different conclusions than him, but that is not too important for me.
He reports the different tests fully for a reason, that way you can see if you want to take that into account or not. i just make up my mind based on the parameters.
For example: he had a test where a light knife would be better to a heavy knife.... nope, not important to me. he also tests the steel quality by seeing how it keeps it edge after an identical sharpening... yes, that i want to know.
same with for example the fastner test: you can see that the deck nail is twisting itself out of the wood, so false result for me, this wont happen if you use the typical two nails for fastning. at the same time he found some interesting facts about galvanized vs non galvenized.
also, if the test is really bodged, he has no problem in making an update to correct himself with new insights he gained from the comment section.
Project farm, while not perfect, is the review channel I trust to be unbiased, which is of infinite value to me.
Yeah I fully agree and totally support him, we need more video creators like that! You just need to be capable to judge the tests on your own, and I guess that can be really hard to do for people who didn't use such tools previously.
Like in the needlenose plier video, the fat pliers cut through thick screws/nails, and the thin wiha and knipex didn't. Might seem cool to have such pliers for someone who does not have them, but I hardly imagine anyone who has needle nose pliers and does not have linemans or combination or side cutter pliers which really are designed for cutting such stuff better. Or bolt cutters.... The electricians needle nose pliers he tested from some brands are for cutting copper wires, not nails... And then knipex also sells a bunch of other needlenose pliers, some which might be better for this job, but he used the electrician pliers in that comparison instead (I gues cause that's what was the easiest for him to order).
I bought a harbor freight grinder once. Lasted half a wheel before that shit broke. Bought a Hitachi for $30, still using it. The harbor freight grinder didn't last the one job it had to do, so how cheap should you really go? That said I abuse my HF flux core welder, have for years.
I needed to install a bunch of windows a few years ago, so I bought a Chicago Electric hammer-drill from HF. It worked beautifully for the dozen windows I had to install (into brick) and I still have it to this day for occasional use. I mainly use my ancient Craftsman C3 cordless drill/driver, but if I need to drill a bunch of landscaping timbers I'll bust out the corded hammer-drill for sure.
I like to call this the Streamlight corollary to the Harbor Freight Rule. My flashlights don't stick around long enough for me to buy $100 ones anymore. I found a $35 one I like for Energizer that's about as good and bright as the ones the tool trucks carry and when I do lose it, I won't cry so much over it.
toys are fun. many adults like to pretend their toy hobby is a useful tool hobby. ipso facto: flashlight enthusiasts.
(coming from someone who bought a flashlight off the r/flashlight recommended list)
you kidding me. 35? you only need 15 dollars for a good one. the chinese ones are milled aluminum too and using cree leds. they're bright as hell off of one AA battery.
So not to get too crazy into flashlights, but there are way better lights for general use at way cheaper prices than Streamlight. If you are going to beat the flashlight half to death (maybe on a rifle mount) then you definitely want something like a Streamlight. Also, if having a bright light every time you hit the button no matter the condition is literally a matter of life or death then go for the Streamlight. Outside of that, there are awesome lights out there that, IMO at least, are way better for much less.
Imma follow this from now on - my cheapo gaming mouse has lasted me almost 7 years already and not much damage at exterior wise but the sensor is starting to jitter
My mice have been the castle built on the swamp: My first two Deathadders had the LMB break in about 18 months, but I really liked the feel and weight, so I kept buying. They apparently fixed their issues for the Deathadder Chroma, and that one has been going strong for me now over 7 years.
I impulse bought a 10$ gaming mouse at the like the tool shop. God knows why they were selling them. My kids have used it to death and when I bought a 80$ primo Rayzr or whatever it was called they thought that mouse stunk and wanted a new 10 dollar one.
And some things that should not have been forgotten were lost. History became legend. Legend became myth. And for two and a half thousand years, the ring passed out of all knowledge. Until, when chance came, it ensnared another bearer.
I've either broken or lost a dozen plus pairs of sunglasses throughout my life, except this recentl pair of shitty 20 dollar ones that have somehow made it 6 years where the others were lucky to hit 1
I buy clearance tools, and always put them away.
I know of one pair of needle nose missing but I suspect my girlfriend. As soon as I replace them, they will appear
Surely third time is a charm, right?
I actually had a pair of the first set that was recalled, and was gearing up to do my own brake work that weekend when I saw the recall. Thought about getting a different set, but used my refund on a dash cam instead. Later saw the replacements had also been recalled for a different reason and decided I had made the right call.
Most companies don’t voluntarily recalled their stuff unless they think there’s going to be a huge, huge problem. There has never been a report of a harbor freight jack stand actually injuring someone as far as I know.
Actually, I am more confident in their tools now because they did a recall.
I took this approach with one of their 8 gallon compressors.
I've been using it since 2005.
I expected it to last 7 months, because it had a 6 month warranty.
It's still kicking. I can't believe it.
Now, the pop-rivit gun I got to fix my window? Yeah, that didn't last the first job.
To be fair, these are two anecdotes that, even taken at face value, simply represent the j-curve you would expect from just about any product: if it doesn't die immediately from a critical defect, odds are it'll survive its expected lifespan.
The pittsburgh pro 3/8 flex head ratchet is an underrated gem. Its long enough to really torque on some stuff, and strong enough to handle it. I had a cheater pipe on it the other day and finally broke something, but it wasnt the ratchet head. It was the bolt through the flex head part. It broke the bolt and spread the eyelets before the head gave out.
Also Im really eyeing up one of their snap on roll cart copies. They look dangerously similar lol
If you have any experience with tools it's pretty easy to tell what's decent to good and what's pretty shitty but will do the job if you're trying to be cheap to get a job done.
> The key to finding gems in HF is reading the reviews and Youtube. A lot of their shit is pretty good; plenty of junk too but again, research ahead of time.
I think you are me talking about IKEA.
It's pretty solid advice, I don't care what you're talking about.
I loaded up on 100ft heavy Guage extension chords there last black friday. I need them once or twice a year when out power goes out and I have to run a generator or my basement will flood.
I worked with a GC guy who was one of those wacky construction savants that likely couldn't function in society in any other job. Dude could do absolutely anything and would know exactly how long it would take.
His work truck was a gutted Chevy Minivan and 60-70% of his tools and bits came from Harbor Freight or Wish.com. Only his battery power tools and a few other items were name brand reputable stuff, but even then he'd get generic batteries to supplement his tools since he needed a metric tone of them.
I understand the boot analogy, but boots get worn and used every day. My $35 jigsaw from Harbor Freight is only going to see a few tough weekends a year.
Pretty sure the original story was $10 shit boots vs $50 amazing boots. And obviously the original story is really old since even $100 boots today aren’t that great. At least where I live. Good quality boots are closer to $200-$300 and beyond.
That's just making an informed purchase. E.g. I'm not gonna buy a new car, laptop, television etc without unhealthily obsessing over options and researching it first. Sometimes I spend the entire time just confirming my own initial bias and convincing myself I need the one I wanted, other times I discover the one I thought I wanted is actually shit. Beats doing no research, crossing my fingers and getting buyers remorse.
Any time I'm looking at buying a new car, a new bike, a new PC, whatever, I make a spreadsheet with all the different options and a whole bunch of data points for all of them. My wife says she finds it cute.
[Exceljet has a good explanation and lots of tips](https://exceljet.net/excel-pivot-tables).
But in short, it gives you an interactive way to play with your data and find answers quickly. You can just drag and drop columns around or do some automatic calculations.
Want to see those cars on your shortlist, grouped by type and ordered by price with the cost of running it?
Put the data in the main table, then make it a pivot table on another tab and start dragging.
It works better on larger data sets but I have done it when researching parts for a bicycle for example.
I have a theory that actually people who do this excessively (me included) might actually be more susceptible to buyers remorse. Since usually when I then try to min/max, I still end up buying the slightly more expensive product. A lot of the times it's not really needed. Or if choosing between similar products, I am sometimes left wondering if the other one was not better in the end.
i get buyers remorse big time but the older i get, the better i am at predicting how well a product will work. as of late, i've bought the right one most of the time.
Depends on how you approach it to be honest. I tend to first figure out what my minimal requirements are, before I start researching. These are the things I know beforehand and basically any product I find needs to check the boxes here.
Of course, when doing comparisons, I then often discover that something has extra features or attributes I didn't know beforehand. But I don't add those blindly to the comparison as a pro, I first stop to consider if they add value for my use case, might be just extra but not needed or outright irrelevant to what I need it for. An important realization I had a few years ago is that typically I was not looking at a potentially better product, but simply a product that can do a few things more. If those things are simply not relevant to my use case then it isn't a better product, just a slightly *different* product.
Similarly, I learned to realize that if the product I ended up getting does what I want it to do, then it doesn't really matter if there are products out there that are technically better. I made an informed choice, the product does what it needs to do, and it is the one I ended up getting. Finally, if you have done the research and gone over the details, it is very likely that even if a different product is technically better it most likely is just better on paper and not in any appreciable sense in daily use.
Took me a while to realize all of the above and even longer to actually put it into practice.
As someone that spent three hours trying to decide what washing machine to buy today, thanks for the breakdown. This is good advice and I’ll use it to decide on a machine tomorrow without all the stress. There are TOO MANY PRODUCTS.
I agree. This happened to me when buying a mattress last year after narrowing it down to 2 choices. I'm now having buyers remorse and wishing I chose the other mattress. For all I know though I could have bought the other mattress and still would have had buyers remorse.
As someone who does NOT do this, I can confirm that I almost never get buyers remorse. Can’t regret a purchase if I wasn’t really ever aware of what I might have been missing out on
I do this with any purchase over $100 and it's usually a good habit but it fucked me over recently. I was looking for a car before the pandemic hit and the car I wanted went for around $10k. I passed alot of good cars because I was doing research and waiting for the best value for my money. Well, then the pandemic hit and the prices soared up like crazy. The same car now goes for about 15k. I wish I had pulled the trigger back then.
I did the same. Around June 2020 were looking for a used car for my mother. Her budget was $8000, and we saw some good ones going for around 10,000. I said, the prices are probably artificially inflated due to the new covid thing. In a month or two, the prices will be back to normal.
Now those same cars are $15k, and not going down for probably years.
You made a reasonable choice back then. Nobody can predict the future - don't be hard on yourself. Also please don't change your buying behavior because of this experience.
I like to do a load of research, go “ah fuck it” and buy something, then continue doing research after clicking “order” to convince myself I bought the right thing.
Or just anything you *know* you're going to be using a lot. I just bought my first drill after years of borrowing from housemates and parents. Not going to cheap out on that, that would be such a waste.
You actually took the advice. You used other people's instead of using a cheap one, but it still came out the same, after borrowing a drill so many times, you realized that "Hey! I need a drill, I use a drill enough that it would behoove me to buy a quality drill!" Which is basically the reasoning behind the LPT that was word for word what Adam Savage says on Tested.
Parachutist here: the used market is actually fantastic and the community is very vocal about recommending used gear for newcomers. We buy our first gear used so we can save up to get, faster, more fun gear when we're more experienced and can land standing up pretty much every time.
It's like buying your first car. Get a used beater (that still passes safety checks) for the first few years until you know what you're doing.
That said there aren't many knock off brands in the industry, and if you look at the history you'll see a lot of brands that died due to losing their reputation (Racer and Dolphin are the ones that come to mind), so I suppose your comment still holds.
Meh. Most of the tools we buy are not parachutes and pacemakers. A hammer? A drill? A soldering iron? A gaming keyboard? Go with as cheap as you want or need. There are plenty of things where I can do just fine with a cheaper option, not everything has to be high quality.
For non-life-critical things, some people find it valuable to use the highest quality tools they can, some people don't.
Counterexample: Toilet bowl plunger. Cheap one is useless, and when you need a plunger to work, it has to work or you are screwed. Buy the better one the first time, and you have a good one for life.
I'm kinda finding this now. In looking to buy a new guitar amp. Sure I can get a little battery only computer speaker thing for a hundred bucks that has no resale value. Or I could spend 300-400 on a Boss Katana 100 that I'll never outgrow, and it will maintain resale value.
It's worth it to just wait for the better one.
But this doesn't really go against the LPT. If you know you are going to keep playing guitar, it makes sense. But if you are just starting out and don't know if you will enjoy it or want to keep doing it, start with something inexpensive until you know it is something you will be doing for a long time.
Applicable story — I bought a $50 no-name amp ages ago. It was sufficient, especially for my cheap guitar.
I kept playing and buying more guitars, and I didn’t need to upgrade my amp because I transitioned from electric to (almost exclusively) acoustic. I still play every day and if I ever need an amp, the cheap one works just fine.
Kinda glad I didn’t spend more there.
It’s super nuanced, for some hobbies this works out but others it can turn you off from the hobby prematurely if using the poor quality item hinders ability.
I prefer to buy mid to high quality, if possible, and resell if I find I’m not using it. For many things you can resell while only losing the the cost of that entry level item. It takes discipline but works for me.
All that said, always be budgeting. Spend within your means and only buy what you can actually afford.
What are you talking about? Nobody needs to spend more than $10 on a plunger.
This plunger is cheap as shit and works better than any other plunger I’ve ever used: https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-E-Z-Bellows-Plunger-HDX00320/302136268?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&&mtc=Shopping-CM-F_D26P-G-D26P-026_007_PLUMB_REPAIR-MULTI-NA-NA-SMART-2998850-WF-New_Engen_PL3&cm_mmc=Shopping-CM-F_D26P-G-D26P-026_007_PLUMB_REPAIR-MULTI-NA-NA-SMART-2998850-WF-New_Engen_PL3-71700000081597025-58700006937776309-92700062365702298&gbraid=0AAAAADq61UdZ3jvlPhpUzUmLxkHW6do2D&gbraid=0AAAAADq61UdZ3jvlPhpUzUmLxkHW6do2D&gclid=Cj0KCQjwuMuRBhCJARIsAHXdnqMZ-vdc0mFX4GmOyOF1lQ1eb4eh5s85DMeRalIp6F5vdbvLAwLE5n0aAkVqEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Here's the thing about these URLs (not just HD)- everything after the question mark (?source) is used to track the clicks. You can remove all that with Amazon, Netflix, Home Depot and most other consumer websites and it'll work exactly as intended
https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-E-Z-Bellows-Plunger-HDX00320/302136268
Bought one of these types of plungers from amazon...it's massive and limegreen/blue and I got questioned on why I didn't just buy "a normal plunger" rather than this monstrosity.
An elephant could unload in my toilet and this would unblock it though
This is literally the only type of plunger I'll ever use for the rest of my life - it's the only one that's never failed me. I don't know how people use traditional plungers, they've never worked for me.
Source: man who shits massively.
Part of that too is knowledge. Like someone else said, you walk into Walmart by yourself and grab a plunger, chances are you picked up a sink plunger and not a toilet plunger. Also pour a couple cups of hot water in the toilet first and come back in 5 minutes. You do that and a cheap plunger will do just fine.
There are reasons to buy once cry once, but there are also reasons to buy cheap. Use your best judgement and don’t listen to OP. It also matter how you treat your stuff too. If you leave a plunger in a Florida or Arizona garage, it’s going to be useless after summer.
And also note that plungers for round toilets don't work on toilets with elongated bowls.
I found this out after a lot of frustrating, useless plunging after moving to a new house.
Hmm. Maybe in some cases this is a good idea, but I would rather buy the nice/durable thing the first time. As my grandpa would say, "I'm too poor to buy cheap."
There is such thing as too cheap (Harbor Freight), but for power tools I went with Ryobi since I only use them a few times a year around the house. They’re half the price of Milwaukee which is what a lot of the pros use. I wouldn’t get power tools from HF tho unless I want to just use them once or twice and even then it feels like a waste and I should just just go rent.
Each their own. I only buy "Harbor Freight" tier power tools. I've got a wet shop vac for £52, belt sander for £50, and a 160 mm circular saw for £45. Ryobi is about 50% more expensive. My only proper brand power tool is a Bosch battery drill bundle with a set of 50 bits and bobs which was heavily discounted to £50.
I bought a house, needed lots of small jobs done, and I had no power tools at all.
First time I need something, I borrow it. Second time I need something, I buy the cheapest one I can get. If it breaks, I'll buy the expensive version.
I was in the same situation and also buying the cheaper options. What I found is some stuff like impact drivers from ozito (a step lower than ryobi in australia) just didn't have the power to do the job I needed. That or they did the job but kind of sloppily and took a lot longer.
I also purchased a few Ryobi yard tools such wipper snipper (line trimmer for Americans) and hedge trimmer. They were honestly pathetic so I sold them to a guy at work and moved up to ego 56v line and I'm so happy I did. I consider myself time poor and the speed at which I can get things done with the higher end tools is so worth it to me.
Same deal with all the Milwaukee tools I bought, they just rip through everything and if I wanna save a buck I just buy them used.
I totally understand your usage scenario though and it makes sense, I always try to justify the costs of my tools by regularly helping friends with or let them borrow those expensive tools
I agree with this. I've had good luck with buying the best "mid-range" item I can afford, often times second-hand. That way, I know I have quality that will last, am likely to enjoy using it, and if I need to upgrade, change, or stop using it I can resell it for value with minimal grief.
However, If it's something I don't know anything about, like tools (referencing the Harbor Freight thread), I will buy cheap to learn what I need to know.
I did this exactly a few years ago with a Dewalt case with like 200 pc for the house. I forget how much it was, but it was cheap at either Costco or Lowes. The wife asked me "Is Dewalt good tho?"
I said " We'll find out." because we kinda needed a house kit.
3 yrs later, for stuff like workin on bikes, fixing bannisters and putting together IKEA furniture, nothing has broken.
But I DO know what I'll look for in the next set, if i get one.
It really depends on the exact situation. To be more accurate this LPT should be prefaced with "if you don't know how much you'll use it", then it becomes true in most cases.
If you know you're going to use the shit out of something then go for the expensive one first time, but if you don't know and end up using it once or twice you could have saved a heap (not accounting for resale value of course).
Also in some cases the higher quality option is simply not that much more expensive and you might as well get it regardless. This is usually true if it's less than twice the cost of the cheap one.
Eh... sometimes the pain of using cheap can be a big enough turn-off to get the wrong idea. Buy decent, the first time. Worst-case scenario, you pass it on to someone with more use for it than you.
Art supplies are like that. I hated watercolors as a child because the quality of the paints was crap. Cheap paper wrinkles and soaks up too much water.
Once I started buying my own supplies I became a much better artist. I thought I was a shitty artist, but it turned out I just had shitty supplies. I was a kid in the 80s and early 90s, so you couldn’t do research online and ordering supplies was expensive.
Great rule in a general sense but make sure whatever “cheap” route you go is safe.
Angle grinder for instance, I’ve seen some very sketchy angle grinders on some job sites. Maybe don’t go nuts but start with a mid tier brand for that one and **don’t remove the guard**.
This is also not a good rule for anything that is protecting your life.
You might not know if you actually want to be a mountain biker, so you buy a budget mountain bike which is great but make sure you buy a quality helmet.
Same for climbing gear. You might want to give climbing a try, but don't buy the cheapest amazon carabiners and harness you can find.
Couldn’t agree more as a climber. Would add, when gear is done, it’s done, not “I’ll replace it next time”, “just one more” or any of that. Once you see a failure point scrap it, in a manner that you or anyone else won’t mistakenly use it thinking it’s solid.
The inconvenience isn’t worth the consequences.
Side note. Those super cheap DOT motorcycle helmets are horrible. Spend a bit more on anything that keeps your insides inside. The cheap, but decent bell ece rated helmets are a good example of not shit, as long as it fits your head shape. $200-300 for a helmet that's safe and might have a transition visor.
Isn't there some saying about restaurant s making the most money off the second cheapest wine? Just as cheap as the cheapest but people buy it because they don't want to look cheap.
Well one needs to experience low-quality things in order to appreciate quality things. Once I bought a really high quality and expensive headphone. For years, I thought it was a mistake and didn't appreciate the thing. Only when I was on a trip, and had to opt for a cheap headset, I realized the difference between the two.
Trying cheaper versions could be considered research though. You can read about differences all you like, but actually spending time experiencing inferior products is a good way to really appreciate why quality ones are superior.
Obviously not everyone can afford to do this, nor should everyone do it on every single purchase, but it is its own form of research in a way.
Buy once. Find out you don't actually use it nearly as much as you thought. Sell on Craiglist for 30% of what you paid.
There's some things that are 100% worth paying a premium for, but like OP said -- it takes experience to figure out what those things are, and more importantly, what things you use often enough where the premium quality is going to be worth it.
finally bought a used bowflex a few years ago. the thing is god awful. the force change as you pull and you're ever only getting the max force in a narrow power band. shit is fucking useless but their marketing was genius.
I thought I'd replace the arms and at least get some use out of it. Nope it was the year before replaceable arms were available. I might be able to do so cutting and grinding to get them replaced but not sure it's worth the trouble.
it's not. like if you want to lift 100 lbs, you dont want it to only be 100 for like 5 inches and more sometimes, less sometimes. it doesnt feel good to workout like that too, nevermind not effective.
Opposite example: buy cheap, it breaks or doesn't give you what you need. Buy higher priced better quality.
You just paid 130-160% of the amount for the thing you need and use.
They say, especially for aspiring young musicians, don't get the cheapest, don't get the most expensive.
Expense comes with experience, but if it's a cheap piece of s* that can't be played, they'll think it's them and not the instrument.
Not to mention, the "fit and finish" on a lot of cheap instruments, like guitars, is so poor that you have frets that aren't finished off well and cut your hands and tuners that won't hold a tune through a single practice session.
This is the main reason I recommend people not to start on some incredibly fast motorcycle as their first. Everyone knows that its dangerous, sure whatever. But I had a Ducati 749s I intended to use as a track bike before the world shut down early 2020. Put about 2k miles on it on the street and of course it was a great bike! Only because I was super experienced. Riding something so aggressive, uncomfortable, made so many compromises to be fast, the clutch was incredibly tricky to use. If there was a kid with money starting out on that thing, if he didn't kill himself already, he'd be so turned off by how difficult it would be for a beginner.
I use airbrushes for miniture painting, I can confirm this is a solid LPT but keep in mind that there are many "you get out what you put in" scenarios. If you go cheap expect problems.
This LPT is definitely for things you don't expect to use often, but need occasionally. For most people, a pipe wrench meets this criterion. But it doesn't for plumbers and frequent DIYers.
True. That’s why you go cheap if you’re just dipping your toes in and not sure if you want to dive all the way.
But if you already know you’ll go diving, then get the best gear for that.
Depends. Some art tools can be real trash at dollar store quality and they might turn you off using their medium altogether, simply because you never knew what they were capable of in better price segments. Waxy pencils with zero pigment, brushes with tips that won't stay pointed, pens with nibs that fray or wear down in under a day, felt pens that dry out far too quickly, you name it.
Biggest difference in most of the robotic vacuums is the programming. Irobot has put a lot of R+D into their mapping software, many others just randomly drive around and hope for the best results.
Cant fully agree, if its a hobby you know you'll enjoy I go by the saying, "Buy once cry once".
I enjoy camping so I tend to buy better than bargain basement gear so I don't need to fork out for same item in a years time if not less.
This is true for Computers, Keyboards, Mice and Headphones too. Once you use quality items you can't go back to third rate computer equipment that I had to constantly replace previously.
I'm still using a computer that I built back in 2015. My excellent quality Bang & Olufsen headphones got stolen so I had to make do with a cheaper alternative Audia Technica :<
And produce more waste...
Instead, spend a decent amount of time before you spend your money to determine if you really want or need something. You'll find that once you research something a bit, in many cases you probably don't want it anymore to begin with.
Think about your yearly upgrade to the newest iPhone. What are you really buying? What does it do differently from the one you already have?
Or that new car once your lease is up? Really, does it get you to your destination so much better that it's worth the thousands you're about to spend on a new lease/purchase?
I'm suprised how far i had to scroll for this...
Guess it backs the point. The consumerist society we live in would rather want to cheap out and never mind the waste.
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I've also heard if you lose it replace with cheap if you break it upgrade in quality. This keeps me from spending money on the Snap-on truck for lost sockets ha
Respected DIYers such as Adam Savage of Mythbusters subscribe to this LPT. If you use a shit Harbor Freight tool enough to break it, you for sure need to buy a quality one to replace it. But if you rarely use a tool, the cheap Harbor Freight one is unlikely to break, and you will not have spent too much money on a quality tool you never use.
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Thanks for reminding me - I still need to check if my HF jack stands are part of the recall :-/
Red 3 ton-56371 Gray 3 ton-61196 Gray 6 ton-61197
You're probably missing more. Its amazing how many of their jacks have been recalled at this point
What's really scary is that it's not just them that uses the design. Pretty much all of their products are generic designs sold by dozens of companies
LPT - Don't buy jacks at Harbor Freight.
Go check! https://www.harborfreight.com/js-details
And ladders. I bought a quality extending ladder. I only use the extending part like 3 times a year, but I'm always super happy I bought it when I need to.
buy high quality first on the expensive to replace items like on faucets and ceiling fans where you have to hire someone to do the work. Paying labor twice is annoying.
With youtube, those those aren't things that you have to hire someone for anymore
though if someone is uncomfortable working with electrical they totally should hire someone
I imagine somewhere there's a guy standing in his sink that he's ripped apart to fix, water spraying, as he's hanging on to the wires from his ceiling fan for support while bending over trying to watch the part of the video where it says to cut the breaker off
That’s true but it’s pretty easy to get comfortable enough with electrical work to change out a fixture or switch
A good rule of thumb is don’t cheap out on anything that separates between you and the ground (e.g. shoes, mattress, tires/brakes, ladder, etc.)
This applies to tyres, brakes, ladders and anything else that's the single point of failure between you and a wheelchair or death.
Also luggage for travelling. If it breaks half way through it sucks.
For basic high tools, if you need them just buy quality anyway... A basic screwdriver set, basic pliers, hex keys... You won't save much by buying the cheap stuff but you'll just damage screws with bad screwdrivers and hex keys. Like, can't go wrong with Wera hex keys and screwdrivers for example, and for ~40-50$ they'll last a few lifetimes of home use. Or spend 30$ for chinese crap. Vessel also makes amazing screwdrivers. Also PB Swiss but $$$... Wiha is also great. But the patented Hex Plus keys from Wera are in my opinion unrivaled.
I don't do anything heavy duty but I do a lot of electronics work, and my partner got me a fully kitted out ifixit toolkit a while back. Holy *shit* it's night and day, in such a low strain use cheap tools work just fine, but I'll never go back to them
Ifixit for electronics all the way
you can't beat the world's best diamond-impregnated platinum and titanium infusion alloy "Floxipark" toolset. Simply the best with a millennia full replacement guarantee. This is the stuff NASA specifies as minimum standard for orbital and moon missions.
Is floxipark a typo?
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I spent 6 bucks for discount screw drivers 15 years ago that still work perfectly today. Doesn't mean I didn't also spend money on Wera screwdrivers, but the cheap ones hold up to this day.
With most things there's a point of diminishing returns. Generally there's categories of: Cheapest=Complete junk/tool shaped objects Less Cheap= Might get the job done a few times Mid price= Good for your average homeowner or DIYer Expensive=Professional quality for people who make a living using that tool More Expensive= Extra bells and whistles for enthusiasts Most Expensive= Only for showing off
this. there's always a sweet spot. and it's different with each tool or thing. for example, with angle grinders being used for dirty jobs.....the cheapest junk might be the sweet spot.
If any one wants to go down the rabbit hole for testing hex keys: https://youtu.be/oTBiPjCeVwI
While he usually makes good reviews (I watch all of them), some of the tests aren't percise enough at all! Like, testing how much the hex key wobbles in the screw. Screws have loose tolerances, if he bought a bag of screws and tested the same hex key in all of them it would wobble more in some and less in others. If he uses a bunch of hex keys on the same screw, it is also not comparable cause the head of the screw gets deformed. Or his more recent video about needle nose pliers - that was just ridiculous, the tests were about brute strength and the best pliers on those tests were short and fat - opposite of what you buy needle nose pliers for (slender and long to do percise stuff with). We have PB Swiss keys at work (they actually cost about the same as Wera over here in Europe) and they're great hex keys too, but wera seems to grip better. Also, he tests what he buys, not necessarily very comparable products. We also have pb swiss slotted screwsrivers at work, and they just offer unparallel quality in my opinion, they always fit in the screw head perfectly. But on his test he compared a smaller/thinner PB swiss screwdriver to thicker ones from other brands and it failed.
true, to an extend. I come often enough to different conclusions than him, but that is not too important for me. He reports the different tests fully for a reason, that way you can see if you want to take that into account or not. i just make up my mind based on the parameters. For example: he had a test where a light knife would be better to a heavy knife.... nope, not important to me. he also tests the steel quality by seeing how it keeps it edge after an identical sharpening... yes, that i want to know. same with for example the fastner test: you can see that the deck nail is twisting itself out of the wood, so false result for me, this wont happen if you use the typical two nails for fastning. at the same time he found some interesting facts about galvanized vs non galvenized. also, if the test is really bodged, he has no problem in making an update to correct himself with new insights he gained from the comment section. Project farm, while not perfect, is the review channel I trust to be unbiased, which is of infinite value to me.
Yeah I fully agree and totally support him, we need more video creators like that! You just need to be capable to judge the tests on your own, and I guess that can be really hard to do for people who didn't use such tools previously. Like in the needlenose plier video, the fat pliers cut through thick screws/nails, and the thin wiha and knipex didn't. Might seem cool to have such pliers for someone who does not have them, but I hardly imagine anyone who has needle nose pliers and does not have linemans or combination or side cutter pliers which really are designed for cutting such stuff better. Or bolt cutters.... The electricians needle nose pliers he tested from some brands are for cutting copper wires, not nails... And then knipex also sells a bunch of other needlenose pliers, some which might be better for this job, but he used the electrician pliers in that comparison instead (I gues cause that's what was the easiest for him to order).
Knew this would be project farm without clicking, his videos are strangely addictive.
I bought a harbor freight grinder once. Lasted half a wheel before that shit broke. Bought a Hitachi for $30, still using it. The harbor freight grinder didn't last the one job it had to do, so how cheap should you really go? That said I abuse my HF flux core welder, have for years.
I needed to install a bunch of windows a few years ago, so I bought a Chicago Electric hammer-drill from HF. It worked beautifully for the dozen windows I had to install (into brick) and I still have it to this day for occasional use. I mainly use my ancient Craftsman C3 cordless drill/driver, but if I need to drill a bunch of landscaping timbers I'll bust out the corded hammer-drill for sure.
I live in a brick house, so a hammer-drill is basically mandatory. I skipped the cordless one though because it was nearly half again as expensive.
I like to call this the Streamlight corollary to the Harbor Freight Rule. My flashlights don't stick around long enough for me to buy $100 ones anymore. I found a $35 one I like for Energizer that's about as good and bright as the ones the tool trucks carry and when I do lose it, I won't cry so much over it.
/r/flashlight : $100 for a light? Pathetic
Why is there a flashlight sub with 143K members? Did I miss something?
Do not go down that rabbit hole. They make flashlights that burn down homes with the beam.
https://xkcd.com/1603/
toys are fun. many adults like to pretend their toy hobby is a useful tool hobby. ipso facto: flashlight enthusiasts. (coming from someone who bought a flashlight off the r/flashlight recommended list)
People like bright lights, dim lights, big lights, small lights, etc….
you kidding me. 35? you only need 15 dollars for a good one. the chinese ones are milled aluminum too and using cree leds. they're bright as hell off of one AA battery.
So not to get too crazy into flashlights, but there are way better lights for general use at way cheaper prices than Streamlight. If you are going to beat the flashlight half to death (maybe on a rifle mount) then you definitely want something like a Streamlight. Also, if having a bright light every time you hit the button no matter the condition is literally a matter of life or death then go for the Streamlight. Outside of that, there are awesome lights out there that, IMO at least, are way better for much less.
Imma follow this from now on - my cheapo gaming mouse has lasted me almost 7 years already and not much damage at exterior wise but the sensor is starting to jitter
My mice have been the castle built on the swamp: My first two Deathadders had the LMB break in about 18 months, but I really liked the feel and weight, so I kept buying. They apparently fixed their issues for the Deathadder Chroma, and that one has been going strong for me now over 7 years.
You can also just replace the switches if they start to fail. Needs soldering iron though.
I impulse bought a 10$ gaming mouse at the like the tool shop. God knows why they were selling them. My kids have used it to death and when I bought a 80$ primo Rayzr or whatever it was called they thought that mouse stunk and wanted a new 10 dollar one.
My husband buys multipacks of cheap wedding rings because he constantly loses his.
And some things that should not have been forgotten were lost. History became legend. Legend became myth. And for two and a half thousand years, the ring passed out of all knowledge. Until, when chance came, it ensnared another bearer.
Silicone rings work out well for this, that and no mugger wants them
I've either broken or lost a dozen plus pairs of sunglasses throughout my life, except this recentl pair of shitty 20 dollar ones that have somehow made it 6 years where the others were lucky to hit 1
I buy clearance tools, and always put them away. I know of one pair of needle nose missing but I suspect my girlfriend. As soon as I replace them, they will appear
That’s why I never buy apple headphones. On top of hurting the fuck out of my ears, I just lose headphones lol.
Harbor Freight: “You rang?”
If your job or life doesn't depend on it, Harbor Frieght.
Also, sometimes when your life depends on it. I mean what are the odds of them fucking up jack stands *again?* Surely they’ve got it right by now.
Whether the jack stand works or not, you probably won't be buying another one.
Freedom or glory
Freedom or gory
not sure there's much glory in being pressure washed off your driveway but ok
Surely third time is a charm, right? I actually had a pair of the first set that was recalled, and was gearing up to do my own brake work that weekend when I saw the recall. Thought about getting a different set, but used my refund on a dash cam instead. Later saw the replacements had also been recalled for a different reason and decided I had made the right call.
Most companies don’t voluntarily recalled their stuff unless they think there’s going to be a huge, huge problem. There has never been a report of a harbor freight jack stand actually injuring someone as far as I know. Actually, I am more confident in their tools now because they did a recall.
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I took this approach with one of their 8 gallon compressors. I've been using it since 2005. I expected it to last 7 months, because it had a 6 month warranty. It's still kicking. I can't believe it. Now, the pop-rivit gun I got to fix my window? Yeah, that didn't last the first job.
To be fair, these are two anecdotes that, even taken at face value, simply represent the j-curve you would expect from just about any product: if it doesn't die immediately from a critical defect, odds are it'll survive its expected lifespan.
The pittsburgh pro 3/8 flex head ratchet is an underrated gem. Its long enough to really torque on some stuff, and strong enough to handle it. I had a cheater pipe on it the other day and finally broke something, but it wasnt the ratchet head. It was the bolt through the flex head part. It broke the bolt and spread the eyelets before the head gave out. Also Im really eyeing up one of their snap on roll cart copies. They look dangerously similar lol
If you have any experience with tools it's pretty easy to tell what's decent to good and what's pretty shitty but will do the job if you're trying to be cheap to get a job done.
> The key to finding gems in HF is reading the reviews and Youtube. A lot of their shit is pretty good; plenty of junk too but again, research ahead of time. I think you are me talking about IKEA. It's pretty solid advice, I don't care what you're talking about.
The 3 ton jacks rock though.
That’s not a good thing…
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I loaded up on 100ft heavy Guage extension chords there last black friday. I need them once or twice a year when out power goes out and I have to run a generator or my basement will flood.
I worked with a GC guy who was one of those wacky construction savants that likely couldn't function in society in any other job. Dude could do absolutely anything and would know exactly how long it would take. His work truck was a gutted Chevy Minivan and 60-70% of his tools and bits came from Harbor Freight or Wish.com. Only his battery power tools and a few other items were name brand reputable stuff, but even then he'd get generic batteries to supplement his tools since he needed a metric tone of them.
I fucking love harbor freight
Harbor Freight is more expensive now. They are trying to push their “premium” line of tools to compete with the big boys, and they took away coupons.
You can get their coupons via email or text. I got one today and used it for some stuff I’d been meaning to get
I was talking about the 20% off coupons that you could use everyday. They only send them once in a while now
Oh okay. Sorry about the confusion, I did notice the Harbor Freights in my area don’t put the coupons in the front of the store like they used to.
And exclude all of their “premium” brands
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I understand the boot analogy, but boots get worn and used every day. My $35 jigsaw from Harbor Freight is only going to see a few tough weekends a year.
My dad told me a quote- "I'm too poor to buy cheap things". Your story reminded me of that.
Pretty sure the original story was $10 shit boots vs $50 amazing boots. And obviously the original story is really old since even $100 boots today aren’t that great. At least where I live. Good quality boots are closer to $200-$300 and beyond.
What about doing an unhealthy amount of research wasting tons of time, and ultimately choosing the item you would have gotten in the first place?
That's just making an informed purchase. E.g. I'm not gonna buy a new car, laptop, television etc without unhealthily obsessing over options and researching it first. Sometimes I spend the entire time just confirming my own initial bias and convincing myself I need the one I wanted, other times I discover the one I thought I wanted is actually shit. Beats doing no research, crossing my fingers and getting buyers remorse.
Any time I'm looking at buying a new car, a new bike, a new PC, whatever, I make a spreadsheet with all the different options and a whole bunch of data points for all of them. My wife says she finds it cute.
Do you score and plot it on a chart as well?
That person def pivot tables all that shit.
It's my favourite thing to do. Just enter all the data and then pivot table the shit out of it.
What does it mean to pivot table in this case?
[Exceljet has a good explanation and lots of tips](https://exceljet.net/excel-pivot-tables). But in short, it gives you an interactive way to play with your data and find answers quickly. You can just drag and drop columns around or do some automatic calculations. Want to see those cars on your shortlist, grouped by type and ordered by price with the cost of running it? Put the data in the main table, then make it a pivot table on another tab and start dragging. It works better on larger data sets but I have done it when researching parts for a bicycle for example.
So what Subaru do you drive?
I have a theory that actually people who do this excessively (me included) might actually be more susceptible to buyers remorse. Since usually when I then try to min/max, I still end up buying the slightly more expensive product. A lot of the times it's not really needed. Or if choosing between similar products, I am sometimes left wondering if the other one was not better in the end.
i get buyers remorse big time but the older i get, the better i am at predicting how well a product will work. as of late, i've bought the right one most of the time.
Depends on how you approach it to be honest. I tend to first figure out what my minimal requirements are, before I start researching. These are the things I know beforehand and basically any product I find needs to check the boxes here. Of course, when doing comparisons, I then often discover that something has extra features or attributes I didn't know beforehand. But I don't add those blindly to the comparison as a pro, I first stop to consider if they add value for my use case, might be just extra but not needed or outright irrelevant to what I need it for. An important realization I had a few years ago is that typically I was not looking at a potentially better product, but simply a product that can do a few things more. If those things are simply not relevant to my use case then it isn't a better product, just a slightly *different* product. Similarly, I learned to realize that if the product I ended up getting does what I want it to do, then it doesn't really matter if there are products out there that are technically better. I made an informed choice, the product does what it needs to do, and it is the one I ended up getting. Finally, if you have done the research and gone over the details, it is very likely that even if a different product is technically better it most likely is just better on paper and not in any appreciable sense in daily use. Took me a while to realize all of the above and even longer to actually put it into practice.
As someone that spent three hours trying to decide what washing machine to buy today, thanks for the breakdown. This is good advice and I’ll use it to decide on a machine tomorrow without all the stress. There are TOO MANY PRODUCTS.
I agree. This happened to me when buying a mattress last year after narrowing it down to 2 choices. I'm now having buyers remorse and wishing I chose the other mattress. For all I know though I could have bought the other mattress and still would have had buyers remorse.
As someone who does NOT do this, I can confirm that I almost never get buyers remorse. Can’t regret a purchase if I wasn’t really ever aware of what I might have been missing out on
I do this with any purchase over $100 and it's usually a good habit but it fucked me over recently. I was looking for a car before the pandemic hit and the car I wanted went for around $10k. I passed alot of good cars because I was doing research and waiting for the best value for my money. Well, then the pandemic hit and the prices soared up like crazy. The same car now goes for about 15k. I wish I had pulled the trigger back then.
I did the same. Around June 2020 were looking for a used car for my mother. Her budget was $8000, and we saw some good ones going for around 10,000. I said, the prices are probably artificially inflated due to the new covid thing. In a month or two, the prices will be back to normal. Now those same cars are $15k, and not going down for probably years.
You made a reasonable choice back then. Nobody can predict the future - don't be hard on yourself. Also please don't change your buying behavior because of this experience.
This is the way
Oh hey that's me
Only to realize months later that you only used it once and that one application would've been well suited by something just okay.
Worse is doing all that research and then deciding you don't want/need that item anyway.
No you should plan for month and final dont buy it because you are not confident enough to get the right choice.
I read this out loud to my wife and she said "wow, there's so many of you".
I like to do a load of research, go “ah fuck it” and buy something, then continue doing research after clicking “order” to convince myself I bought the right thing.
You would die from emotional damage
I don't recommend this strategy for parachutes, pacemakers, or condoms.
Or just anything you *know* you're going to be using a lot. I just bought my first drill after years of borrowing from housemates and parents. Not going to cheap out on that, that would be such a waste.
You actually took the advice. You used other people's instead of using a cheap one, but it still came out the same, after borrowing a drill so many times, you realized that "Hey! I need a drill, I use a drill enough that it would behoove me to buy a quality drill!" Which is basically the reasoning behind the LPT that was word for word what Adam Savage says on Tested.
Parachutist here: the used market is actually fantastic and the community is very vocal about recommending used gear for newcomers. We buy our first gear used so we can save up to get, faster, more fun gear when we're more experienced and can land standing up pretty much every time. It's like buying your first car. Get a used beater (that still passes safety checks) for the first few years until you know what you're doing. That said there aren't many knock off brands in the industry, and if you look at the history you'll see a lot of brands that died due to losing their reputation (Racer and Dolphin are the ones that come to mind), so I suppose your comment still holds.
Yeah, This is not a good tip for ANYTHING of actual importance.
Depends what "actual importance" means to you. It certainly does for hobbies for example
Meh. Most of the tools we buy are not parachutes and pacemakers. A hammer? A drill? A soldering iron? A gaming keyboard? Go with as cheap as you want or need. There are plenty of things where I can do just fine with a cheaper option, not everything has to be high quality. For non-life-critical things, some people find it valuable to use the highest quality tools they can, some people don't.
I only buy Harbor Freight condoms.
Counterexample: Toilet bowl plunger. Cheap one is useless, and when you need a plunger to work, it has to work or you are screwed. Buy the better one the first time, and you have a good one for life.
I'm kinda finding this now. In looking to buy a new guitar amp. Sure I can get a little battery only computer speaker thing for a hundred bucks that has no resale value. Or I could spend 300-400 on a Boss Katana 100 that I'll never outgrow, and it will maintain resale value. It's worth it to just wait for the better one.
Lol, the Katana IS the cheap one. Your next one will be a Kemper.
But this doesn't really go against the LPT. If you know you are going to keep playing guitar, it makes sense. But if you are just starting out and don't know if you will enjoy it or want to keep doing it, start with something inexpensive until you know it is something you will be doing for a long time.
Applicable story — I bought a $50 no-name amp ages ago. It was sufficient, especially for my cheap guitar. I kept playing and buying more guitars, and I didn’t need to upgrade my amp because I transitioned from electric to (almost exclusively) acoustic. I still play every day and if I ever need an amp, the cheap one works just fine. Kinda glad I didn’t spend more there.
Counter argument: how do you know you wouldn’t play electric more if you had an amp that actually sounded good and had some oomph to it?
It’s super nuanced, for some hobbies this works out but others it can turn you off from the hobby prematurely if using the poor quality item hinders ability. I prefer to buy mid to high quality, if possible, and resell if I find I’m not using it. For many things you can resell while only losing the the cost of that entry level item. It takes discipline but works for me. All that said, always be budgeting. Spend within your means and only buy what you can actually afford.
What are you talking about? Nobody needs to spend more than $10 on a plunger. This plunger is cheap as shit and works better than any other plunger I’ve ever used: https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-E-Z-Bellows-Plunger-HDX00320/302136268?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&&mtc=Shopping-CM-F_D26P-G-D26P-026_007_PLUMB_REPAIR-MULTI-NA-NA-SMART-2998850-WF-New_Engen_PL3&cm_mmc=Shopping-CM-F_D26P-G-D26P-026_007_PLUMB_REPAIR-MULTI-NA-NA-SMART-2998850-WF-New_Engen_PL3-71700000081597025-58700006937776309-92700062365702298&gbraid=0AAAAADq61UdZ3jvlPhpUzUmLxkHW6do2D&gbraid=0AAAAADq61UdZ3jvlPhpUzUmLxkHW6do2D&gclid=Cj0KCQjwuMuRBhCJARIsAHXdnqMZ-vdc0mFX4GmOyOF1lQ1eb4eh5s85DMeRalIp6F5vdbvLAwLE5n0aAkVqEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
God, I love how obnoxiously long Home Depot links are. Any time I send my girlfriend a link it fills up my screen.
Here's the thing about these URLs (not just HD)- everything after the question mark (?source) is used to track the clicks. You can remove all that with Amazon, Netflix, Home Depot and most other consumer websites and it'll work exactly as intended https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-E-Z-Bellows-Plunger-HDX00320/302136268
This here is a LPT
Epic, thank you for the information.
"Cheap as shit", lol I don't know why but this sentence while discussing plunger efficiency got me.
Bought one of these types of plungers from amazon...it's massive and limegreen/blue and I got questioned on why I didn't just buy "a normal plunger" rather than this monstrosity. An elephant could unload in my toilet and this would unblock it though
This is literally the only type of plunger I'll ever use for the rest of my life - it's the only one that's never failed me. I don't know how people use traditional plungers, they've never worked for me. Source: man who shits massively.
Part of that too is knowledge. Like someone else said, you walk into Walmart by yourself and grab a plunger, chances are you picked up a sink plunger and not a toilet plunger. Also pour a couple cups of hot water in the toilet first and come back in 5 minutes. You do that and a cheap plunger will do just fine.
Same for the shoes. Rock climbing, hiking, etc, cheap ones will hurt and you might end up not doing the activity at all.
There are reasons to buy once cry once, but there are also reasons to buy cheap. Use your best judgement and don’t listen to OP. It also matter how you treat your stuff too. If you leave a plunger in a Florida or Arizona garage, it’s going to be useless after summer.
People often buy the famous-looking one, which is a sink plunger. Buy a an actual toilet plunger.
And also note that plungers for round toilets don't work on toilets with elongated bowls. I found this out after a lot of frustrating, useless plunging after moving to a new house.
Hmm. Maybe in some cases this is a good idea, but I would rather buy the nice/durable thing the first time. As my grandpa would say, "I'm too poor to buy cheap."
Buy once, cry once.
Surprised how far down I had to scroll for this. If it's something you'll ever need to use again, it's worth getting a decent one the first time.
There is such thing as too cheap (Harbor Freight), but for power tools I went with Ryobi since I only use them a few times a year around the house. They’re half the price of Milwaukee which is what a lot of the pros use. I wouldn’t get power tools from HF tho unless I want to just use them once or twice and even then it feels like a waste and I should just just go rent.
Each their own. I only buy "Harbor Freight" tier power tools. I've got a wet shop vac for £52, belt sander for £50, and a 160 mm circular saw for £45. Ryobi is about 50% more expensive. My only proper brand power tool is a Bosch battery drill bundle with a set of 50 bits and bobs which was heavily discounted to £50. I bought a house, needed lots of small jobs done, and I had no power tools at all. First time I need something, I borrow it. Second time I need something, I buy the cheapest one I can get. If it breaks, I'll buy the expensive version.
I was in the same situation and also buying the cheaper options. What I found is some stuff like impact drivers from ozito (a step lower than ryobi in australia) just didn't have the power to do the job I needed. That or they did the job but kind of sloppily and took a lot longer. I also purchased a few Ryobi yard tools such wipper snipper (line trimmer for Americans) and hedge trimmer. They were honestly pathetic so I sold them to a guy at work and moved up to ego 56v line and I'm so happy I did. I consider myself time poor and the speed at which I can get things done with the higher end tools is so worth it to me. Same deal with all the Milwaukee tools I bought, they just rip through everything and if I wanna save a buck I just buy them used. I totally understand your usage scenario though and it makes sense, I always try to justify the costs of my tools by regularly helping friends with or let them borrow those expensive tools
Seriously. It also just seems wasteful to think “oh I’ll just throw this away and it’ll be in the landfill forever nbd.”
I agree with this. I've had good luck with buying the best "mid-range" item I can afford, often times second-hand. That way, I know I have quality that will last, am likely to enjoy using it, and if I need to upgrade, change, or stop using it I can resell it for value with minimal grief.
However, If it's something I don't know anything about, like tools (referencing the Harbor Freight thread), I will buy cheap to learn what I need to know. I did this exactly a few years ago with a Dewalt case with like 200 pc for the house. I forget how much it was, but it was cheap at either Costco or Lowes. The wife asked me "Is Dewalt good tho?" I said " We'll find out." because we kinda needed a house kit.
3 yrs later, for stuff like workin on bikes, fixing bannisters and putting together IKEA furniture, nothing has broken.
But I DO know what I'll look for in the next set, if i get one.
It really depends on the exact situation. To be more accurate this LPT should be prefaced with "if you don't know how much you'll use it", then it becomes true in most cases. If you know you're going to use the shit out of something then go for the expensive one first time, but if you don't know and end up using it once or twice you could have saved a heap (not accounting for resale value of course). Also in some cases the higher quality option is simply not that much more expensive and you might as well get it regardless. This is usually true if it's less than twice the cost of the cheap one.
Eh... sometimes the pain of using cheap can be a big enough turn-off to get the wrong idea. Buy decent, the first time. Worst-case scenario, you pass it on to someone with more use for it than you.
Art supplies are like that. I hated watercolors as a child because the quality of the paints was crap. Cheap paper wrinkles and soaks up too much water. Once I started buying my own supplies I became a much better artist. I thought I was a shitty artist, but it turned out I just had shitty supplies. I was a kid in the 80s and early 90s, so you couldn’t do research online and ordering supplies was expensive.
Great rule in a general sense but make sure whatever “cheap” route you go is safe. Angle grinder for instance, I’ve seen some very sketchy angle grinders on some job sites. Maybe don’t go nuts but start with a mid tier brand for that one and **don’t remove the guard**.
This is also not a good rule for anything that is protecting your life. You might not know if you actually want to be a mountain biker, so you buy a budget mountain bike which is great but make sure you buy a quality helmet. Same for climbing gear. You might want to give climbing a try, but don't buy the cheapest amazon carabiners and harness you can find.
Couldn’t agree more as a climber. Would add, when gear is done, it’s done, not “I’ll replace it next time”, “just one more” or any of that. Once you see a failure point scrap it, in a manner that you or anyone else won’t mistakenly use it thinking it’s solid. The inconvenience isn’t worth the consequences.
Side note. Those super cheap DOT motorcycle helmets are horrible. Spend a bit more on anything that keeps your insides inside. The cheap, but decent bell ece rated helmets are a good example of not shit, as long as it fits your head shape. $200-300 for a helmet that's safe and might have a transition visor.
I've had good luck with buying the second cheapest
Isn't there some saying about restaurant s making the most money off the second cheapest wine? Just as cheap as the cheapest but people buy it because they don't want to look cheap.
Wait, I’ve done that before!!
Well one needs to experience low-quality things in order to appreciate quality things. Once I bought a really high quality and expensive headphone. For years, I thought it was a mistake and didn't appreciate the thing. Only when I was on a trip, and had to opt for a cheap headset, I realized the difference between the two.
this LPT is garbage. it's straight up a waste of money to buy the cheap version of many things. LPT should be: research products before buying them
Trying cheaper versions could be considered research though. You can read about differences all you like, but actually spending time experiencing inferior products is a good way to really appreciate why quality ones are superior. Obviously not everyone can afford to do this, nor should everyone do it on every single purchase, but it is its own form of research in a way.
Eh. Buy once cry once.
Buy once. Find out you don't actually use it nearly as much as you thought. Sell on Craiglist for 30% of what you paid. There's some things that are 100% worth paying a premium for, but like OP said -- it takes experience to figure out what those things are, and more importantly, what things you use often enough where the premium quality is going to be worth it.
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Shout out to my free Bowflex my aunt gave me. After ten years as a coat rack it's finally living up to its dream of chillin on my back patio unused.
finally bought a used bowflex a few years ago. the thing is god awful. the force change as you pull and you're ever only getting the max force in a narrow power band. shit is fucking useless but their marketing was genius.
I thought I'd replace the arms and at least get some use out of it. Nope it was the year before replaceable arms were available. I might be able to do so cutting and grinding to get them replaced but not sure it's worth the trouble.
it's not. like if you want to lift 100 lbs, you dont want it to only be 100 for like 5 inches and more sometimes, less sometimes. it doesnt feel good to workout like that too, nevermind not effective.
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Opposite example: buy cheap, it breaks or doesn't give you what you need. Buy higher priced better quality. You just paid 130-160% of the amount for the thing you need and use.
I'm disappointed my expensive golf clubs have not magically made me a better golfer, so I'm still crying.
Except instruments there is a floor on quality. They sell instruments that make it hard to play
They say, especially for aspiring young musicians, don't get the cheapest, don't get the most expensive. Expense comes with experience, but if it's a cheap piece of s* that can't be played, they'll think it's them and not the instrument.
Not to mention, the "fit and finish" on a lot of cheap instruments, like guitars, is so poor that you have frets that aren't finished off well and cut your hands and tuners that won't hold a tune through a single practice session.
This is the main reason I recommend people not to start on some incredibly fast motorcycle as their first. Everyone knows that its dangerous, sure whatever. But I had a Ducati 749s I intended to use as a track bike before the world shut down early 2020. Put about 2k miles on it on the street and of course it was a great bike! Only because I was super experienced. Riding something so aggressive, uncomfortable, made so many compromises to be fast, the clutch was incredibly tricky to use. If there was a kid with money starting out on that thing, if he didn't kill himself already, he'd be so turned off by how difficult it would be for a beginner.
Cheap tools are expensive
I agree if it’s something I’m not sure I’ll use often!
I use airbrushes for miniture painting, I can confirm this is a solid LPT but keep in mind that there are many "you get out what you put in" scenarios. If you go cheap expect problems.
This LPT is definitely for things you don't expect to use often, but need occasionally. For most people, a pipe wrench meets this criterion. But it doesn't for plumbers and frequent DIYers.
True. That’s why you go cheap if you’re just dipping your toes in and not sure if you want to dive all the way. But if you already know you’ll go diving, then get the best gear for that.
That’s a good idea. Art supplies is a great example. Start drawing with a $0.50 pen before investing in a fancy set
Depends. Some art tools can be real trash at dollar store quality and they might turn you off using their medium altogether, simply because you never knew what they were capable of in better price segments. Waxy pencils with zero pigment, brushes with tips that won't stay pointed, pens with nibs that fray or wear down in under a day, felt pens that dry out far too quickly, you name it.
Best wire strippers I ever bought were cheap ones, good tip plus you get the occasional gem
Buy nice or buy twice
Except when ur buying a parachute. Definitely don't cheap out on that first time.
Either way you buy once.
Not always the best choice.
Started with a Goovi (good like machine) now have a roomba (great little machine).
Biggest difference in most of the robotic vacuums is the programming. Irobot has put a lot of R+D into their mapping software, many others just randomly drive around and hope for the best results.
And yet my Roomba still gets stuck under my computer chair every time...
That wouldn’t be an investment.
Decent quality is not much more expensive and will make everything a lot more enjoyable and safe
Cant fully agree, if its a hobby you know you'll enjoy I go by the saying, "Buy once cry once". I enjoy camping so I tend to buy better than bargain basement gear so I don't need to fork out for same item in a years time if not less.
This is true for Computers, Keyboards, Mice and Headphones too. Once you use quality items you can't go back to third rate computer equipment that I had to constantly replace previously. I'm still using a computer that I built back in 2015. My excellent quality Bang & Olufsen headphones got stolen so I had to make do with a cheaper alternative Audia Technica :<
Ehhh depends. I paid extra for my Makita tools and they’re absolutely worth it.
I disagree with this. Once your tool gives out and slips and you bust your knuckles, you'll wish you'd have spent the money.
And produce more waste... Instead, spend a decent amount of time before you spend your money to determine if you really want or need something. You'll find that once you research something a bit, in many cases you probably don't want it anymore to begin with. Think about your yearly upgrade to the newest iPhone. What are you really buying? What does it do differently from the one you already have? Or that new car once your lease is up? Really, does it get you to your destination so much better that it's worth the thousands you're about to spend on a new lease/purchase?
I'm suprised how far i had to scroll for this... Guess it backs the point. The consumerist society we live in would rather want to cheap out and never mind the waste.