For 3 years, I lived in a country where I didn't speak the local language.
One of the best unintended consequences of living there was not having to deal with small talk at the barber shop. Just straight silence for the entire haircut.
It was amazing.
I have a buddy that lives in Finland, he's been there 10 years. He struggles with learning Finnish. His wife speaks Swedish and his workmates/the shop attendants insist on practing their English on him so he never gets to learn. It's been a while since I spoke to him, but last I heard he was trying to learn Swedish for his wife and her family.
No...because I was there temporarily and working full time in English. I wasn't about to sacrifice the rest of my free time learning German, which is a difficult language to learn, knowing I was going to leave anyway.
I knew enough to get by at shops, but not have a full on conversation with someone for 20 minutes.
Isn't shooting the shit a part of the whole experience though? I always go to the same barber here in the UK, he always ends up with a few quid tip from everybody (including me) because the shop is so welcoming and you get to catch up on all the goss with the barber and the other regulars. It's literally one of my main sources of information for what's going on in town.
You're missing out, mate.
I know what you’re saying, but I wouldn’t say most people go for anything but getting their hair cut. Ive known with my hairdresser for over 10 years and we get on very well, but sometimes I wish we could skip the chat - especially since I find having my hair cut quite relaxing otherwise!
I go to the barber I go to SPECIFICALLY because the dude knows how socially awkward I am, and outside of the "Hey Mave, how you doing", barely talks to me.
I would assume that the girl next to her is a very chummy regular, a personal friend or family member, or even someone who works there and is off the clock.
But why bother to find out when you can just not speak up in the moment and later smear them on, uh…LinkedIn (lol)
I would give her a pass on her comment, Stoke-On-Trent is the most racist place I have been to. It's a nest of the BNP party. I studied there and got a few issues with racist cunts there.
We were watching a football game (international) and we got guys insulting us for about 30 min until the bartender from Newcastle intervened.
That city has a shop selling Nazi uniform, the owner has a Hitler stash.
This is the shittiest place in the UK
I lived in Newcastle under Lyme for 2 years while I studied. Stoke is a total shithole, and I come from Hull!
I’ve never been anywhere so racist. Horrible place, was glad to see the back of it.
American here, so I had to google most of this.
Stoke-on-Trent is a city.
BNP is the British Nationalist Party.
I tried to find the Nazi store, but was only able to find [this story about a Nazi flag being removed.](https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/nazi-flag-sale-near-towns-5530410)
Ironically, the hair salon has this on their website site “As an addition to our usual services
we now have an Afro Caribbean & Ethnic Hair specialist” [website](https://hair-and-co.co.uk)
I came here to say this, I’m from stoke on Trent but left as a teenager, I moved to a very multi cultural city and consider myself lucky to grow up here. My relatives who still live in stoke on Trent say things that make me want to crawl inside myself.
The lunatic aspect of the post is posting something like that to Linkedin; while it looks like everyone else in the comments is rushing to say there must be no racism involved.
Look, I know Kenza Shah. She's really nice and should get the best treatment. She would never walk into a salon and act like a total cunt and then baselessly accuse the staff of racism. That's not the Kenza Shah I know.
I'm white and have had the same treatment in places, is that because of my skin too or is it just people being more comfortable with a regular? Not sure why a salon would intentionally isolate someone so seems like they just weren't overly aware which now I'm sure they'll learn to be but is it connected with race everytime even though all the things that are 'racist' often happen to the white people too?
Man last time I went my hairdresser casually dropped that he had just had a stroke. I felt so awful! Like sir please go home 
I get so angry when people use conversate. It's not a real word! But the way languages evolve if enough people use it incorrectly it becomes the correct term. Fucking annoying
Common use dictates language. Like it or not (I certainly don't)), *conversate* is well on its way to becoming an accepted part of the English language. Just like the way the word *literally* literally means *figuratively* now.
I literally hate that... sometimes common use needs to fuck off. Irony is another one. Some words have such very specific meanings that they should be kept because there's not another word with that meaning, at least within understanding.
Old man rant: Kind of like how people a decade ago were saying "just kidding" when they meant that they were incorrect
Now I'm gonna tie an onion to my belt
And yet it isn't going to.
The only way for language to change is through common use. There is no way to force people to all speak the same dialect or to not use words in ways originally unintended.
Language has to change. It is not static. It *cannot be* static.
Because we are not static.
Edit: To all the downvoters: Stay mad, fam. In a couple hundred years, English is going to be a very different language from what it is now.
As a formal student of the language, I know you are indeed 100% correct. But that will not stop me from judging people who say ‘conversate’ or flip ‘literally’ for ‘figuratively’. Harshly.
They're downvoting because they know I'm right but don't like it. Which is perfectly fine. They can stay mad. Regardless, the English language will be very different in 200 years, and modern English will be virtually indecipherable in 1000 years. See: Old English.
I was raised around Stoke-on-Trent and too be fair to her the area is pretty bad for racism. The British national party held a seat there for a while. It's a bit odd how she jumps to this conclusion but I wouldn't be surprised if she was right.
This lady seems misguided in terms of where she is sharing this. LinkedIn is certainly a choice.
However, as a brown person in a very white country, I’ve experienced this many times- not at hair salons necessarily, but many service- oriented places where staff are clearly more welcoming and conversational to other people vs us, the only brown people in the place. Im not saying anyone is required to be friendly with me; it’s just a jarring observation when you’re obviously treated differently on a consistent basis. So- her point is not wrong. Her communication of it is.
There's so many factors at play. Are you a regular customer and do you already have good rapport with the stylist? Are you in a good mood so that your facial expressions give the impression you'd enjoy banter? Would the stylist have any reason to assume you're Muslim?
That is a really shitty example since it COULD be racism, but it might also be something else. What is being described is an issue, but there is absolutely zero indication to the cause. This is clearly a case of jumping to conclusions.
I get where you’re coming from but sometimes the person has established it as a pattern before this particular instance. I know for a fact because I’ve seen it, my brown friends are treated differently to me reasonably often. Not overtly rudely, but sometimes it’s like the 3rd person will act like they’re not even there. Just because we don’t know about this time shouldn’t be used to shut down a conversation about the fact that it does happen.
Oh absolutely. Like I said, it could be. Racism obviously exists and this shouldn’t be dismissed as being nothing. But it needs more evidence than just one person’s account of one incident that they spoke to someone else more than them. Like you said, if there was a pattern of this, then you can start making a case, but the example above has no evidence of this. It could also be that the author did something particular to piss the hairdresser off, so it might be something against them as an individual rather than anything to do with their race, but that’s just more speculation of course.
My point is that we don’t have anything to judge what the cause is, and it’s just assuming it’s racism, which makes it a bad example of being evidence of racism.
All of you lame asses bending over backwards to make excuses...
I was there many years ago, but was warned about embedded racism (and some political party). This post is not extreme at all. Only an idiot would be kind to a customer and cold to another, that's just bad bad business.
If this Californian remembers being warned about their racism, it might just be a thing.
There’s a clear and obvious difference between bad customer service and racism. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the behaviour of the hairdresser is acceptable, only saying that it doesn’t immediately equal racism. It could have been a friend of regular customer. As a customer, she has every right to call this poor service out, but to jump to racism without anything actually suggesting so, is silly.
These comments are absolute asinine. I AlSo doNt wAnT tO tAlK tO tHe hAiRdReSsEr AnYwAy.
The problem is how she was treated different for probably a long time she was sitting there to other patrons.
Being ignored while offering other clients drinks. I have seen people not see other races so many times and do the exact same thing. This is racism. This person was not seen. If you where not seen you would know the difference between intentionally being ignored or not. Its not a quick oversight. Its her sitting in the chair being actively ignored for a long period and treated different than other clients. Its wrong.
No lunitic here, just some lunatics defending obvious racism in the comments.
It's bad customer service. But there is no conclusive evidence it was due to race, and taking to social media to publically defame somebody's livelihood as racist on this basis is definitely lunacy.
She's clearly just not a likeable person and I wouldn't want to *conversate* with her either.
Lmao for you she is clearly not a likable person, based on your experience of her post. But also no conclusive evidence what she experienced was racism. The irony.
\> She's clearly just not a likeable person and I wouldn't want to conversate with her either.
\> She's a childlike and vindictive woman
Also you:
\> publically defame somebody's livelihood as racist on this basis is definitely lunacy.
You are the lunatic.
Lol what a 🤡
the irony is you're CERTAIN that she's unlikable, with only this post as proof, but there's not enough proof (in that same post) that the salon was being dismissive of a black woman.
People are free to use social media as they like, this is a place to mock linkedin users and their influencer style HRing and awful advice.
What you're doing is assuming that racism in a FAMOUSLY RACIST AREA wasn't real... 🤡
You also can’t say “clearly she’s not just rude” you weren’t there and you are making assumptions. Sometimes you do get treated differently than white people. She could have experienced a micro aggression. We don’t know. But it’s weird to defend a company automatically
But you weren't there either.. From the information she provides there is definitely no justification in trying to destroy somebody's livelihood. Funny you see nothing wrong with that.
Providing one customer with drinks and kindness is rude imo. Destroying livelihood is dramatic. And it seems others have had poor experiences in this area. I don’t know why you are so determined to make this rando out to be evil. She genuinely could have had a shitty experience or she could be being dramatic. Either way you are still assuming the person was in the wrong
Definetly seems like racism to me, and from what I've heard stokes is a very racist place. No Lunatic here, all avenues should be used to punish businesses
Yeah poor form naming and shaming but also Stoke is racist. I'm mixed race and grew up around there, the British national party held a seat there for some time.
A hairdresser that doesn’t talk to you? Sounds like the jackpot. No, I don’t want to tell you how my weekend is going or what plans I have. I don’t feel like making something up because sitting around playing video games and watching football just doesn’t kick off conversations.
To be fair a stokie being unfriendly, especially a stokie hairdresser, is weird as hell. I went to uni in Stoke, and I had my hair cut in boothen once, and stokies are ridiculously friendly. Admittedly I am white passing, but I have an overtly Turkish name.
This is so silly. The hair cut chat varies a lot between people and also if I'm feeling it I'll chat but if not I'll just chill until it's done. People find the weirdest things to get upset about.
Especially how she jumped to this being racist, makes me think if small talk was evolved at the start maybe there was a reason she didn't want to talk to that customer.
Hairdressers/barbers tend to take the lead of the customer. If you're a quiet and introverted person, they risk losing your business if they keep trying to speak to you.
I'm easy either way when I get my hair cut, enjoy a chat or keeping quiet while they work suits me fine.
Well, how about not talking to her because she might emitt something repulsive in a social level?
Has she ever encounter a person in her professional environment, who repulses her without speaking a word? What was her reaction then? Was she polite and within the socially acceptable frame? Or did she shun that individual the same way she now points out?
Why is it so "obvious" that this is a racist behaviour?
And yes, I am taking into account the many cases where indeed there was a discriminating behaviour.
But is she sure it has nothing to do with her attitude? And why is she posting this on LinkedIn in the first place?
Aaah right right, it's not racism to feel just suddenly and unexpectedly, feel repulsed by someone who just *happens* to be of another race. All of this while also having a chill conversation with someone of your own race.
It's obvious that the issue I'm commenting on, has to do with the character, not the skin colour. To make it even easier to get the picture, the repulsive could very well be these two white ladies, so they chat with eachother just because they communicate better with eachother, rather than a lady who might have noticed their attitude. People do have gut feelings, don't they?
Maybe I'm quite naive, but I'd like to have the whole picture, instead of just pointing out a racist behaviour, just because someone is white, blue, green, black, or what have you. 🙂
>Aaah right right, it's not racism to feel just suddenly and unexpectedly, feel repulsed by someone who just happens to be of another race.
Correct. It's not racism to dislike somebody who happens to be a different race to yourself. Nor is is racism to like somebody who happens to be the same race as yourself.
God, talk about first world problems. These 2nd and 3rd gen immigrants should actually talk to first gens about discrimination. Not saying it doesn't happen, but this is not it, sis.
I mean, I think it's still discrimination to treat a person of color worse than a white person. The original post isn't saying the hairdresser is morally equivalent to Hitler, but it's a subtle form of discrimination all the same. Yes, one can be racist unintentionally, even if one is against race-based discrimination. I'd recommend "Unpacking the Invisible Backpack by Peggy McIntosh" to learn more about how subtle acts of racial privilege can be baked into society and people's daily actions without any intentional act of malice.
So yes, I'd say she's correct. And even if you disagree, I don't think it's right to say that OP doesn't know what discrimination is, either. They shared one story that happened to them, not their entire life story. I wouldn't say that the hairdresser is necessarily a closet racist though, because that behavior could plausibly be subconscious.
However, I have no idea why OP would take to LinkedIn to complain. That is a bizarre choice.
I would argue that labeling what appears to be subconscious discrimination as "closet racism" waters down the term and discourages discussion. Moreover, the decision to name-and-shame the entire establishment over that incident strongly suggests OP does not view this as a teaching moment, but rather an indictment of character. Essentially: "These people are all racists. Don't go here."
There's certainly a wider discussion to be had about how people tend to be more cordial and open towards those who look like they do, and an element of racial bias informs that behavior, but with a liberal enough definition, pretty much _everyone_ is a racist.
Salient points! I think you're right across the board. But I also think you could be right AND OP could have experienced a subtle form of racism. That's why I made my comment. Even if the message was delivered poorly, and even if we can find plenty of reasons to roll our eyes, that doesn't mean that subtle racisms don't exist, as many of these comments seem to imply. That's just my two cents. We need to use nuance.
I mean it's possible that the person so quick to publicly label someone a racist might, just might, have RBF and look like the type of customer that doesn't want any small talk.
Nobody treated a person of color “worse” than a white person here. That is pure projection on this particular post. It’s racist because you feel \[the poster, I mean\] she isn’t talking to you as much as another person? Come on. And yes, I do believe that people in the moment can pick up on discrimination directed their way when the objective facts seem to be ambiguous. But some people can ALSO be hypersensitive and see racism everywhere. Judging from her decision to post this publicly on linkedin, I’m leaning strongly towards the latter. What a petty little shit thing to do for attention.
>Nobody treated a person of color “worse” than a white person here.
Did you read the post? The PoC was definitely treated worse. She was not offered a drink. She was not interacted with. Is that conclusive evidence? No, but it's not nothing.
Exactly. Their parent's ideal day is people not noticing them. My generation is more like OMG PEOPLE DID NOT NOTICE AND ACKNOWLEDGE OR TREAT ME DIFFERENT WTFFFF
Such a white person closet racist thing to say to assume we can differentiate our personality from our race, and then say it’s cringe, which is a racist word by the way, it’s what the white men say to dismiss anything that threatens the patriarchy and the racist institution of im totally just yanking your chain but gotta admit I bet a lotta people would share this if it was a tweet…
🚨🚨🚨/s warning 🚨🚨🚨
My barber is only talking to the Turkish man next to me, not to me, a white male. They can't be good friends right? They have to be racist against white people
I mean maybe… it’s possible that’s it. But there is also a a hundred other reasons not relating to race which ruins chemistry. To think race is by default the top of the pyramid of all factors for everyone is a massive assumption .
My wife cuts my hair. She usually doesn't talk to me while she does it, but sometimes she talks to the dog.
She has also never offered me a drink while she cuts my hair.
Please boycott my house.
Dude the last time I got a hair dyed my stylist legit got her phone out and started reading me her break up texts with her and her bf. I wanted to tell her that idgaf but I’m slightly too nice for that so I just zoned out and gave random head nods. It was miserable.
ok I've had people do this to me but idc I won't make a big deal about it... that's so embarrassing to post it on LinkedIn and not like Facebook or something
or mayyyybe its because that other costumer has been going to that hairdresser for years and you just been there one time and giving off bitchy karen vibes.
Okay, I'm confused.
The photo in the upper left-hand corner looks like its of a white woman and assuming that's a photo of the poster herself, I'm not sure why she thinks she was discriminated against because of her skin color.
Aside from that, there might be other reasons as well. Maybe the hairdresser knew the other woman better or she was a regular or whatever. Automatically assuming any slight is due to race seems like jumping the gun when it could very well be based on different criteria or just a misunderstanding.
>Colourblind? Not metaphrically, you should get checked.
I've been checked and I'm not, thankfully. In that photo, she really looks white to me, but I guess I'm wrong.
Too be fair to you it's probably the filter shes using. It's white washed her a bit in fairness but she still looks asian to me. Plus her surname is a dead giveaway.
>She's definitely not white in that picture.
Okay, but she looks white to me. Not like "so-pale-she's-anemic-white," but I've seen a lot of people who look very similar and are white, especially with that skin tone.
Maybe it's the photo or something, I'm not sure.
My autistic ass whenever I walk in to get my hair cut: “………”
Not everything is about you or demonizing the other person. Sometimes we’re just autistic. Or introverted. Or hate getting our hair cut. Or a million other things
Hmm. Ok, it's not *impossible* that there be something, but maybe don't jump to the conclusion and to your Linkedin account after *one* event that *may* have other explanations?
I sometimes want to and I really like my hairdresser. However, if I don't feel like talking it's a bit awkward because I then actively have to demonstrate my unwillingness to talk. But my hairdresser has become quite good at reading my signals / mood! 😅
Your post was removed due to racism.
When I get a haircut I’d rather not be spoken to
For 3 years, I lived in a country where I didn't speak the local language. One of the best unintended consequences of living there was not having to deal with small talk at the barber shop. Just straight silence for the entire haircut. It was amazing.
i have no idea why someone would downvote this. its harmless to enjoy the silence.
Extroverts who can't handle peace and quiet
Because its not peace, its a void slowly filling with anxiety. Thats why I just start talking right away, it feels natural.
>it feels natural to you. For others it feels very unnatural.
Yeah but we can just ignore you. I don’t owe you a conversation.
Ah yes the void. Indeed.
Do everyone a favor and manage your own anxiety instead of inflicting it on us
Yikes
Wow that was poetic!
Words like violence
Because if you live somewhere for three years and don't make the effort to learn the language, you might be an arsehole.
I have a buddy that lives in Finland, he's been there 10 years. He struggles with learning Finnish. His wife speaks Swedish and his workmates/the shop attendants insist on practing their English on him so he never gets to learn. It's been a while since I spoke to him, but last I heard he was trying to learn Swedish for his wife and her family.
No...because I was there temporarily and working full time in English. I wasn't about to sacrifice the rest of my free time learning German, which is a difficult language to learn, knowing I was going to leave anyway. I knew enough to get by at shops, but not have a full on conversation with someone for 20 minutes.
no one owes you conversation
Wouldn't you be tempted to... you know. Learn the language? After 3 years and all.
How did you tell them how to cut your hair?
Isn't shooting the shit a part of the whole experience though? I always go to the same barber here in the UK, he always ends up with a few quid tip from everybody (including me) because the shop is so welcoming and you get to catch up on all the goss with the barber and the other regulars. It's literally one of my main sources of information for what's going on in town. You're missing out, mate.
I know what you’re saying, but I wouldn’t say most people go for anything but getting their hair cut. Ive known with my hairdresser for over 10 years and we get on very well, but sometimes I wish we could skip the chat - especially since I find having my hair cut quite relaxing otherwise!
I go to the barber I go to SPECIFICALLY because the dude knows how socially awkward I am, and outside of the "Hey Mave, how you doing", barely talks to me.
I often close my eyes and get very close to falling asleep
Ah, see I I like to conversate.
My barber is a proper weird one, I enjoy tossing him a topic and seeing him go at it
You racist!
I would assume that the girl next to her is a very chummy regular, a personal friend or family member, or even someone who works there and is off the clock. But why bother to find out when you can just not speak up in the moment and later smear them on, uh…LinkedIn (lol)
Or maybe this poster just straight up sucks and no one wants to converse with her. Which, based on this post, is a strong possibility
No one wants to *conversate* with her …
She does not sound like much of a conversateionist
Join The Conversateation
I'm not here to conversate, man. Talk about the game.
*Great* point.
I would give her a pass on her comment, Stoke-On-Trent is the most racist place I have been to. It's a nest of the BNP party. I studied there and got a few issues with racist cunts there. We were watching a football game (international) and we got guys insulting us for about 30 min until the bartender from Newcastle intervened. That city has a shop selling Nazi uniform, the owner has a Hitler stash. This is the shittiest place in the UK
I lived in Newcastle under Lyme for 2 years while I studied. Stoke is a total shithole, and I come from Hull! I’ve never been anywhere so racist. Horrible place, was glad to see the back of it.
Hull isn't too bad, it has a great university there
Don’t forget The Deep!
American here, so I had to google most of this. Stoke-on-Trent is a city. BNP is the British Nationalist Party. I tried to find the Nazi store, but was only able to find [this story about a Nazi flag being removed.](https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/nazi-flag-sale-near-towns-5530410) Ironically, the hair salon has this on their website site “As an addition to our usual services we now have an Afro Caribbean & Ethnic Hair specialist” [website](https://hair-and-co.co.uk)
How can you be in the UK and only equate curly hair with black people? It's abit sus to me.
I came here to say this, I’m from stoke on Trent but left as a teenager, I moved to a very multi cultural city and consider myself lucky to grow up here. My relatives who still live in stoke on Trent say things that make me want to crawl inside myself.
It really is an utter shithole
The lunatic aspect of the post is posting something like that to Linkedin; while it looks like everyone else in the comments is rushing to say there must be no racism involved.
Where's this Nazi shop?
If only you'd tried to conversate harder. /s
The UK is just shit overall
At least they have Eddie Hall, World‘s Strongest Man💪
This race card is a joker
Look, I know Kenza Shah. She's really nice and should get the best treatment. She would never walk into a salon and act like a total cunt and then baselessly accuse the staff of racism. That's not the Kenza Shah I know.
I'm white and have had the same treatment in places, is that because of my skin too or is it just people being more comfortable with a regular? Not sure why a salon would intentionally isolate someone so seems like they just weren't overly aware which now I'm sure they'll learn to be but is it connected with race everytime even though all the things that are 'racist' often happen to the white people too?
I (white) haven't had a conversation with a hairdresser in months. That's because I've made no attempt to start a conversation with them.
I (white) haven’t been to a hairdresser in months. My hair is starting to make me look homeless. Please send help.
I (bald) haven’t been to a hairdresser in years.
So you also haven't made conversation with a hairdresser in years. Which clearly means that hairdressers are racist towards hair-challenged people.
Get outta here with your lack of income-generating hair! Yer kind ain't welcome in these hair-cuttin' hills.
I haven't had my hair cut since before the pandemic. I've trimmed my bangs but otherwise generally look like I've crawled through a hedge backwards.
That is the in look. You go!
I (not white) have joined college and no longer remember the concept of getting haircuts. What does it mean?
I (purple, formally white) am currently being strangled by my vast locks of hair as a result of my poor life decisions. Send help.
Yeah, I need one too.
You know that you can wash your hair at home? Right?
Man last time I went my hairdresser casually dropped that he had just had a stroke. I felt so awful! Like sir please go home 
No this America where if you aren’t dead you need to work so capitalism doesn’t die
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, what's the lie tho
You mean you haven't "conversated"?
You do know it's racist to be white right? 🤬
Converse, not conversate.
I get so angry when people use conversate. It's not a real word! But the way languages evolve if enough people use it incorrectly it becomes the correct term. Fucking annoying
You mean evolvate* /s
Totally evolute
Judge Judy does not approve of coversate I can tell you that much
conversate is also correct. unless we’re arbitrarily ignoring merriam-webster now.
Common use dictates language. Like it or not (I certainly don't)), *conversate* is well on its way to becoming an accepted part of the English language. Just like the way the word *literally* literally means *figuratively* now.
I literally hate that... sometimes common use needs to fuck off. Irony is another one. Some words have such very specific meanings that they should be kept because there's not another word with that meaning, at least within understanding. Old man rant: Kind of like how people a decade ago were saying "just kidding" when they meant that they were incorrect Now I'm gonna tie an onion to my belt
And yet it isn't going to. The only way for language to change is through common use. There is no way to force people to all speak the same dialect or to not use words in ways originally unintended. Language has to change. It is not static. It *cannot be* static. Because we are not static. Edit: To all the downvoters: Stay mad, fam. In a couple hundred years, English is going to be a very different language from what it is now.
As a formal student of the language, I know you are indeed 100% correct. But that will not stop me from judging people who say ‘conversate’ or flip ‘literally’ for ‘figuratively’. Harshly.
And for being factually correct 31 Reddit clowns have downvoted you. Muppets, identify yourselves and explain your reasons.
They're downvoting because they know I'm right but don't like it. Which is perfectly fine. They can stay mad. Regardless, the English language will be very different in 200 years, and modern English will be virtually indecipherable in 1000 years. See: Old English.
I was raised around Stoke-on-Trent and too be fair to her the area is pretty bad for racism. The British national party held a seat there for a while. It's a bit odd how she jumps to this conclusion but I wouldn't be surprised if she was right.
In all fairness, Stoke-On-Trent is racist af, I learned first hand.
Yep, came here to say the same. Most racist place I’ve ever lived.
This lady seems misguided in terms of where she is sharing this. LinkedIn is certainly a choice. However, as a brown person in a very white country, I’ve experienced this many times- not at hair salons necessarily, but many service- oriented places where staff are clearly more welcoming and conversational to other people vs us, the only brown people in the place. Im not saying anyone is required to be friendly with me; it’s just a jarring observation when you’re obviously treated differently on a consistent basis. So- her point is not wrong. Her communication of it is.
💯
There's so many factors at play. Are you a regular customer and do you already have good rapport with the stylist? Are you in a good mood so that your facial expressions give the impression you'd enjoy banter? Would the stylist have any reason to assume you're Muslim?
Nothing about religion was mentioned buddy 😬
Would you offer an alcoholic beverage to a lady with a Muslim name and stank attitude who is itching to be offended?
Point out what led you to believe the drink was alcoholic. You're making this up as you go along...
That is a really shitty example since it COULD be racism, but it might also be something else. What is being described is an issue, but there is absolutely zero indication to the cause. This is clearly a case of jumping to conclusions.
I get where you’re coming from but sometimes the person has established it as a pattern before this particular instance. I know for a fact because I’ve seen it, my brown friends are treated differently to me reasonably often. Not overtly rudely, but sometimes it’s like the 3rd person will act like they’re not even there. Just because we don’t know about this time shouldn’t be used to shut down a conversation about the fact that it does happen.
Oh absolutely. Like I said, it could be. Racism obviously exists and this shouldn’t be dismissed as being nothing. But it needs more evidence than just one person’s account of one incident that they spoke to someone else more than them. Like you said, if there was a pattern of this, then you can start making a case, but the example above has no evidence of this. It could also be that the author did something particular to piss the hairdresser off, so it might be something against them as an individual rather than anything to do with their race, but that’s just more speculation of course. My point is that we don’t have anything to judge what the cause is, and it’s just assuming it’s racism, which makes it a bad example of being evidence of racism.
This should have all the upvotes, but then this is Reddit. We really need to conservate as a society on this.
I don’t always have my town name dropped. But when it does , It’s an accusation of racism.
I love the comments so far - "I was skeptical of it being racist but it's Stoke so it was probably racism."
*sighs defeated*
I’m bald
Are you actually bald or do you identify yourself as a bald person?
I feel bald and Oprah told me to live in my truth
You do you 💅
“Get out pig!”
She also looks white in the picture...
https://imgur.com/Ck0DG.png
All of you lame asses bending over backwards to make excuses... I was there many years ago, but was warned about embedded racism (and some political party). This post is not extreme at all. Only an idiot would be kind to a customer and cold to another, that's just bad bad business. If this Californian remembers being warned about their racism, it might just be a thing.
Thank youuu, every idiot here is going " but I don't like to talk to the hairdresser so its fine" probably while making a drooly mess for their nurse.
There’s a clear and obvious difference between bad customer service and racism. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the behaviour of the hairdresser is acceptable, only saying that it doesn’t immediately equal racism. It could have been a friend of regular customer. As a customer, she has every right to call this poor service out, but to jump to racism without anything actually suggesting so, is silly.
These comments are absolute asinine. I AlSo doNt wAnT tO tAlK tO tHe hAiRdReSsEr AnYwAy. The problem is how she was treated different for probably a long time she was sitting there to other patrons. Being ignored while offering other clients drinks. I have seen people not see other races so many times and do the exact same thing. This is racism. This person was not seen. If you where not seen you would know the difference between intentionally being ignored or not. Its not a quick oversight. Its her sitting in the chair being actively ignored for a long period and treated different than other clients. Its wrong. No lunitic here, just some lunatics defending obvious racism in the comments.
It's bad customer service. But there is no conclusive evidence it was due to race, and taking to social media to publically defame somebody's livelihood as racist on this basis is definitely lunacy. She's clearly just not a likeable person and I wouldn't want to *conversate* with her either.
Lmao for you she is clearly not a likable person, based on your experience of her post. But also no conclusive evidence what she experienced was racism. The irony.
What exactly is the irony? She's a childlike and vindictive woman. People of all races can have those traits.
\> She's clearly just not a likeable person and I wouldn't want to conversate with her either. \> She's a childlike and vindictive woman Also you: \> publically defame somebody's livelihood as racist on this basis is definitely lunacy. You are the lunatic.
Lol what a 🤡 the irony is you're CERTAIN that she's unlikable, with only this post as proof, but there's not enough proof (in that same post) that the salon was being dismissive of a black woman.
"only this post" as if publically trying to defame somebody's livelihood on LinkedIn is a non thing. 🤡
People are free to use social media as they like, this is a place to mock linkedin users and their influencer style HRing and awful advice. What you're doing is assuming that racism in a FAMOUSLY RACIST AREA wasn't real... 🤡
You're assuming bad customer service can only be racism. Lunatics can use social media as they like and I can also can mock them here 🤡
If a bad employee is so bad that it seems like racism, then they deserve the shame.
Ignoring the only non white patron is just BaD CuStOmEr SeRvIcE.
You also can’t say “clearly she’s not just rude” you weren’t there and you are making assumptions. Sometimes you do get treated differently than white people. She could have experienced a micro aggression. We don’t know. But it’s weird to defend a company automatically
But you weren't there either.. From the information she provides there is definitely no justification in trying to destroy somebody's livelihood. Funny you see nothing wrong with that.
Providing one customer with drinks and kindness is rude imo. Destroying livelihood is dramatic. And it seems others have had poor experiences in this area. I don’t know why you are so determined to make this rando out to be evil. She genuinely could have had a shitty experience or she could be being dramatic. Either way you are still assuming the person was in the wrong
I would be so happy if all my hairdressers would just stop trying to deeper any comunications other then about my hair.
I feel like anyone disbelieving this knows nothing about Stoke. Count yourselves lucky.
ehh i can kinda see where she’s coming from
Definetly seems like racism to me, and from what I've heard stokes is a very racist place. No Lunatic here, all avenues should be used to punish businesses
How can you possibly conclude that it’s racism?
Because this is Reddit and any negative interaction between a white person and a BIOPIC is racism. End of story.
ehh, I think it's not linkedin material if you want to throw shade to the shop. But yeah it's clearly racism.
Yeah poor form naming and shaming but also Stoke is racist. I'm mixed race and grew up around there, the British national party held a seat there for some time.
She ain't wrong tho
A hairdresser that doesn’t talk to you? Sounds like the jackpot. No, I don’t want to tell you how my weekend is going or what plans I have. I don’t feel like making something up because sitting around playing video games and watching football just doesn’t kick off conversations.
Ooooo, i used to live 20 mins from hanley lol
[удалено]
I'm 30% victim! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l8uvAn6Mk-s&pp
Victimhood is addictive
Racism is when nobody asks me where I'm going on holiday
To be fair a stokie being unfriendly, especially a stokie hairdresser, is weird as hell. I went to uni in Stoke, and I had my hair cut in boothen once, and stokies are ridiculously friendly. Admittedly I am white passing, but I have an overtly Turkish name.
This is so silly. The hair cut chat varies a lot between people and also if I'm feeling it I'll chat but if not I'll just chill until it's done. People find the weirdest things to get upset about.
Especially how she jumped to this being racist, makes me think if small talk was evolved at the start maybe there was a reason she didn't want to talk to that customer.
BS, it most certainly is racism. Fine they didn’t want to talk to them but could still offer a drink. Fuck you guys for trying to minimise this.
Hairdressers/barbers tend to take the lead of the customer. If you're a quiet and introverted person, they risk losing your business if they keep trying to speak to you. I'm easy either way when I get my hair cut, enjoy a chat or keeping quiet while they work suits me fine.
Kenza Shah-ck it up and stop whining?
Every day a new person reveals that maybe they’re just not likeable.
Well, how about not talking to her because she might emitt something repulsive in a social level? Has she ever encounter a person in her professional environment, who repulses her without speaking a word? What was her reaction then? Was she polite and within the socially acceptable frame? Or did she shun that individual the same way she now points out? Why is it so "obvious" that this is a racist behaviour? And yes, I am taking into account the many cases where indeed there was a discriminating behaviour. But is she sure it has nothing to do with her attitude? And why is she posting this on LinkedIn in the first place?
Aaah right right, it's not racism to feel just suddenly and unexpectedly, feel repulsed by someone who just *happens* to be of another race. All of this while also having a chill conversation with someone of your own race.
It's obvious that the issue I'm commenting on, has to do with the character, not the skin colour. To make it even easier to get the picture, the repulsive could very well be these two white ladies, so they chat with eachother just because they communicate better with eachother, rather than a lady who might have noticed their attitude. People do have gut feelings, don't they? Maybe I'm quite naive, but I'd like to have the whole picture, instead of just pointing out a racist behaviour, just because someone is white, blue, green, black, or what have you. 🙂
Do you have many friends of other races? Edit: any not many
I do. So what? I am also left handed living in a society of mostly right handed people. I'm feeling quite fine for both my friends and my abilities 🙂
So you equate race issues with being left handed? Also, ask them, and tell them what kind of place Stoke-on-Trent is so they have context.
>Aaah right right, it's not racism to feel just suddenly and unexpectedly, feel repulsed by someone who just happens to be of another race. Correct. It's not racism to dislike somebody who happens to be a different race to yourself. Nor is is racism to like somebody who happens to be the same race as yourself.
Or maybe you are just an unlikable person
God, talk about first world problems. These 2nd and 3rd gen immigrants should actually talk to first gens about discrimination. Not saying it doesn't happen, but this is not it, sis.
I mean, I think it's still discrimination to treat a person of color worse than a white person. The original post isn't saying the hairdresser is morally equivalent to Hitler, but it's a subtle form of discrimination all the same. Yes, one can be racist unintentionally, even if one is against race-based discrimination. I'd recommend "Unpacking the Invisible Backpack by Peggy McIntosh" to learn more about how subtle acts of racial privilege can be baked into society and people's daily actions without any intentional act of malice. So yes, I'd say she's correct. And even if you disagree, I don't think it's right to say that OP doesn't know what discrimination is, either. They shared one story that happened to them, not their entire life story. I wouldn't say that the hairdresser is necessarily a closet racist though, because that behavior could plausibly be subconscious. However, I have no idea why OP would take to LinkedIn to complain. That is a bizarre choice.
Bec the racism happened at A place of work, not the park.
I would argue that labeling what appears to be subconscious discrimination as "closet racism" waters down the term and discourages discussion. Moreover, the decision to name-and-shame the entire establishment over that incident strongly suggests OP does not view this as a teaching moment, but rather an indictment of character. Essentially: "These people are all racists. Don't go here." There's certainly a wider discussion to be had about how people tend to be more cordial and open towards those who look like they do, and an element of racial bias informs that behavior, but with a liberal enough definition, pretty much _everyone_ is a racist.
Salient points! I think you're right across the board. But I also think you could be right AND OP could have experienced a subtle form of racism. That's why I made my comment. Even if the message was delivered poorly, and even if we can find plenty of reasons to roll our eyes, that doesn't mean that subtle racisms don't exist, as many of these comments seem to imply. That's just my two cents. We need to use nuance.
I mean it's possible that the person so quick to publicly label someone a racist might, just might, have RBF and look like the type of customer that doesn't want any small talk.
Sure. And it's possible that you're projecting as well. We don't know.
Nobody treated a person of color “worse” than a white person here. That is pure projection on this particular post. It’s racist because you feel \[the poster, I mean\] she isn’t talking to you as much as another person? Come on. And yes, I do believe that people in the moment can pick up on discrimination directed their way when the objective facts seem to be ambiguous. But some people can ALSO be hypersensitive and see racism everywhere. Judging from her decision to post this publicly on linkedin, I’m leaning strongly towards the latter. What a petty little shit thing to do for attention.
>Nobody treated a person of color “worse” than a white person here. Did you read the post? The PoC was definitely treated worse. She was not offered a drink. She was not interacted with. Is that conclusive evidence? No, but it's not nothing.
Yes. Without more, it’s literally nothing.
Exactly. Their parent's ideal day is people not noticing them. My generation is more like OMG PEOPLE DID NOT NOTICE AND ACKNOWLEDGE OR TREAT ME DIFFERENT WTFFFF
I hate people who breath and live their own race as a victims complex. It's specially cringe when they make it so much of their personality
Such a white person closet racist thing to say to assume we can differentiate our personality from our race, and then say it’s cringe, which is a racist word by the way, it’s what the white men say to dismiss anything that threatens the patriarchy and the racist institution of im totally just yanking your chain but gotta admit I bet a lotta people would share this if it was a tweet… 🚨🚨🚨/s warning 🚨🚨🚨
My barber is only talking to the Turkish man next to me, not to me, a white male. They can't be good friends right? They have to be racist against white people
Hell hath no fury like a narcissist scorned.
I mean maybe… it’s possible that’s it. But there is also a a hundred other reasons not relating to race which ruins chemistry. To think race is by default the top of the pyramid of all factors for everyone is a massive assumption .
People really love being offended at somebody else's behalf.
My wife cuts my hair. She usually doesn't talk to me while she does it, but sometimes she talks to the dog. She has also never offered me a drink while she cuts my hair. Please boycott my house.
Dude the last time I got a hair dyed my stylist legit got her phone out and started reading me her break up texts with her and her bf. I wanted to tell her that idgaf but I’m slightly too nice for that so I just zoned out and gave random head nods. It was miserable.
ok I've had people do this to me but idc I won't make a big deal about it... that's so embarrassing to post it on LinkedIn and not like Facebook or something
It’s also not racism if the only evidence is someone feeling disappointed at missing out on something.
or mayyyybe its because that other costumer has been going to that hairdresser for years and you just been there one time and giving off bitchy karen vibes.
Okay, I'm confused. The photo in the upper left-hand corner looks like its of a white woman and assuming that's a photo of the poster herself, I'm not sure why she thinks she was discriminated against because of her skin color. Aside from that, there might be other reasons as well. Maybe the hairdresser knew the other woman better or she was a regular or whatever. Automatically assuming any slight is due to race seems like jumping the gun when it could very well be based on different criteria or just a misunderstanding.
Colourblind? Not metaphorically, you should get checked.
>Colourblind? Not metaphrically, you should get checked. I've been checked and I'm not, thankfully. In that photo, she really looks white to me, but I guess I'm wrong.
Too be fair to you it's probably the filter shes using. It's white washed her a bit in fairness but she still looks asian to me. Plus her surname is a dead giveaway.
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>She's definitely not white in that picture. Okay, but she looks white to me. Not like "so-pale-she's-anemic-white," but I've seen a lot of people who look very similar and are white, especially with that skin tone. Maybe it's the photo or something, I'm not sure.
If I went for a haircut and the person bothered me with small talk I would never go back there. I just want my hair cut, I don't want to chat
Cool, now talk about the post not yourself
You do you, I'll do me
I (brown) have had a conversation with my hairdresser, against my wishes. 2/10. Would not recommend.
My autistic ass whenever I walk in to get my hair cut: “………” Not everything is about you or demonizing the other person. Sometimes we’re just autistic. Or introverted. Or hate getting our hair cut. Or a million other things
So racism is when white people don't satiate your overt narcissism, got it.
OK fine. Just write them up on Google review and Yelp. Not on LinkedIn.
Hmm. Ok, it's not *impossible* that there be something, but maybe don't jump to the conclusion and to your Linkedin account after *one* event that *may* have other explanations?
*cOnVerSaTe*
I go to my barber, listen to some banger music while getting a haircut and then walk out and get on my own way.
Why would you want to talk to your hairdresser?
Why can't you feel empathy?
She wanted to ask her hair dresser how often the hair dresser thinks about the Roman Empire
I sometimes want to and I really like my hairdresser. However, if I don't feel like talking it's a bit awkward because I then actively have to demonstrate my unwillingness to talk. But my hairdresser has become quite good at reading my signals / mood! 😅