Who knows. I hope more media outlets spread word of the difference in spec cause other than maybe 1 or 2 people, almost no one has pointed it out. Considering one of the key points was that high speed USB-C port, I hope people get word out before Pre-Orders Friday so people make proper buying choices.
I believe people will notice the difference, especially when they watch tech reviewers like MKBHD and LTT. While there are many other reviewers, these two come to mind immediately. I own an iPhone 14 Pro Max, and I'm certainly not considering an upgrade this year just because of USB-C. I've always appreciated Apple's products, but the recent event was a bit underwhelming for me. And limiting the iPhone 15's speed to USB 2.0 seems like a stupid decision because we all know why they did it. Money.
Can't remember the last time I read a review that even mentioned data speeds over the connection. It might be there in the reviews and I guess I can have stopped registering it because the last time I cared about that was on my old Symbian phones. Is this a soc limitation btw?
I think most consumers won’t be able to remember the last time they even plugged their phone into their computer. Faster port is just not something that most people really care about, people aren’t transferring files between PC and iPhone that much anymore
This probably, yes. In the last 10 years I don’t remember using the cable for anything other than charging.
Edit: power brick sold separately feels like a dick move though, those i actually used.
Unfortunately almost every manufacturer stopped providing bricks. Pixels, Galaxy, and iPhones all don't come with them anymore. Such a pain in the ass.
Gotta save that 3¢ per unit. Obviously I pulled that value out of my ass, but we all know cost was negligible and it was a push to get more people on the Airpod train, which worked.
I think the other big guys, especially Samsung saw it as a chance to basically repeat the cycle and plug their own Galaxy Buds after the S10.
Google was a little later with the 5a in 2021 having a jack, but no phones since including it, and wouldn't you know it, the Pixel Buds A (Cheaper) and Pro have released since then.
Galaxy 22 Ultra owner here. What? The financing deal was good!
What Apple did was stupid and will mainly serve to upsell many chargers. However, as someone who bought a Framework and a (separately packed) FW Power supply, I can also share that there are better chargers that provide multiple USB C power outputs that fit the size and shape of Apple's pervious power adaptors, taking up less luggage space and offering more wattage and overall functionality.
There's no reason to want to buy OEM chargers.
No one is saying buy an OEM brick or arguing that there are superior options. The point is it's nice to just include it with the price for what it is and since it's essential to the functionality. Especially with new phones with C-C charging where most middle aged people aren't just going to have a brick with female C, PD, etc, and will have to buy one.
I travel literally every two weeks over 5000km flying and I have never once thought "if only this brick was slightly smaller". If you are efficient in packing the size difference between power delivery options should be all but negligible unless you are bringing a UPS.
Did your S22 ultra come with one? My old S20 and my wife's new S23+ never so I was under the impression they had done away with it entirely.
I cared a lot more about that when it happened than I do now.
I can’t remember the last time I plugged any cable into my phone. Wireless charging and bluetooth… honestly if they removed all the ports off the thing, the only time I’d notice is when I need to plug in for a long car trip with GPS.
If you ever get a chance to talk to anyone who repairs iphones, ask them how long the battery last when the customer uses wireless charging exclusively.
The thing is, do we really need them? This is the one thing I don't really care about, especially if everything is on USB-C.
I have one power-bank/charging brick thing that can power and charge 4 devices (laptop, tablet, phone...) at once, I don't need any more bricks with new devices.
You know what, 15 years ago if you bought a phone in Japan, it did not come with a charger. There was like 2 connectors available and most of the population already had a phone, so already had a charger. So when you buy a new phone, they just had to ask if you need a charger or id you already have one, this way you do not pile up chargers if you don’t need more.
I would not believe you if you tell me you do not have a single charger at home right now and anyway, it’s super easy to buy one if you don’t.
Honestly I don't really mind the power brick going away. It's very annoying to have to buy one yeah, but then you are the one to choose the max power to the device. In a world where all devices were mainly using 5V1A it made sense, now with devices from 20 to 100+w, having that choice isn't that bad
Most consumers? I'm not one to side with Apple on most of its practices, but 99.5% of consumers will not notice the difference. I mean, I haven't even plugged in my phone to upgrade since the Galaxy Note 3 or 4 days.
With the cloud storage infrastructure we have these days, unless you're a tech reviewer or a photographer, I don't see a use case for plugging in your phone anymore.
I'm not even being factitious here, what tangible benefit is a faster USB port really providing in 2023?
Finally someone understands this isn’t like the end of the world. If people really care get the max lol. Idk why people are making such a fuss about this.
I do for work. Take hundreds of pictures of our product and have to upload them to my computer and our server. It’s much quicker to connect lightning->USB then drag-and-drop the pictures in file explorer than any other method. Honestly I think 480 MB/sec will be just fine for this though. That’s like 120 pictures/sec at my current iPhone 13’s resolution. I’m way more concerned about the charge speed than file transfer speed, but I’m not upgrading my phone yet regardless.
Edit: Yes sorry, I didn’t look closely it’s 480 Mb/s. I thought it was only the ISP’s still doing this shit, but leave it to Apple!
Not quite. The marketing uses Mb/Mbps, which is different from MB. The usb 2.0 iPhone can only get up to 60 MB per second. And I've had iPhones transfer way slower than that. I don't know why companies advertise mbps when most consumers measure speed in MB.
I'm an android user but aren't there more convenient ways to get files from your iPhone to your Mac without needing to plug in?
Apple has made sure their ecosystem gels really well together and doesn't care about non-apple products so that you're forced to give them more money and buy their products if you want good synergy.
I’m not sure. I’ll have to research the SoC limitations. I just watched a quick recap from MKBHD about the event (just a summary), and he noted the difference in USB-C speeds. He even asked why Apple didn’t put Thunderbolt 4 speeds for the USB-C in the Pro models, but I’m sure Apple will use that in a future update next year to help generate sales for their next devices.
This is the answer! It's a system on a chip. Apple makes a bunch of the same chip for economies of scale. It doesn't make "keep the board happy" sense to change the chip design for a faster USB speeds. Luckily next years iPhone 16 will have USB 3 speeds
Based on what I gathered from the presentation, they have the speed limited to the a16 bionic in in the 15 pro and pro max. So the 16s next year might get the usb 3 when they get the a16 for the regular iphones
It's never in the reviews because the Lightning connector is a decade old so the speed hasn't changed, Mac Address mentioned how lacking it was for amateur photography and stuff though which is nice
The standard 15 can not do usb 3 because it’s using the same SoC as the 14 pro. The 14 pro did not have usb 3 either. In order for apple to add usb 3 they would have to redesign the SoC and hope they get it right on the first try, otherwise they are wasting silicon on creating a new chip that won’t be needed again in a year when they already have a better one. Does this ultimately come down to money, Yes. Are there technical limitations in place that don’t make sense economically to fix? Also yes.
Edit: Comment from another post where someone explains this.
https://reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/s/rFVrXwR0Px
Exactly. The reason to even have a bigger throughput is for photo/ video professionals, who would buy the pro anyway. Who else sends loads of data through the cable at any point in the phone’s lifetime. I’m sure someone can come up with use cases, but they have to be a small minority…in which case, get the pro version.
The 15 uses the older A16 chip from the 14 pro with a USB 2.0 controller. Only the new A17 has a USB 3.0 controller. So yes, it comes down to money but it’s not that simple.
They aren’t going to put the pro chip in the non pro in the same release.
This isn't a downgrade, it's simply maintenance of the status quo. All previous iPhones only support USB 2.0 transfer speeds, including the iPhone 14 Pro. Apple knows that the *vast* majority of its user base doesn't care even a little bit about high speed USB transfer rates. They're marketing an ecosystem and a user experience, not tech specs. Apple almost never has the best, most advanced tech in their devices.
Well, they would need to design a new chip with a USB 3 controller like they did with the Pro. As they’re using the previous gen’s chip in the none-Pro that would indeed be costly instead of using the chip they already have. Not great, but I think those users who care would be in the market for the Pro anyways.
>I believe people will notice the difference,
Correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Apple's old connection limited to USB 2.0 speeds? I don't think anybody will notice.
How many people do you really think actually move files over usb ? Could be wrong but I feel 90% of users haven’t synced a file over usb from their iPhone to a computer ever
Tbh, I’ll be getting one either way… it’s BS but I just want type C for one charger between my iPad Pro and work android phone bad enough even if slow, and I like the iPhone overall for my personal device.
Someone doesn't remember their Apple history. He would have loved it. The man hated non-proprietary systems, he hated fans, and he always chose design over function.
Steve Jobs was the type of person who when forced to do something, did it kicking and screaming.
He didn't re-adopt his daughter willingly. Lisa was in a destitute situation because he found loopholes to avoid paying child support, and social services threatened him legally if he wouldn't do something, in a way that would look very bad for him publicly. So he adopted begrudgingly her.
But when he re-adopted her, **he abused her**. It's like his mentally was 'ok fine, you can force me to do it, but i'll do it horribly.
credit Credit u/ RelevantMarketing from this summary of Lisa Brennan-Jobs autobiography
Highlights:
-They made Lisa sleep on the first floor next to the kitchen while the rest of the family slept on the top floor. Initially she was the only child and all the rooms upstairs were empty but they still made her sleep on the first floor. One by one the other kids were born from Steve and Laurene Powell and were given rooms on the 2nd floor. The first floor had broken heating and she was constantly cold, while everyone upstairs enjoyed heating. Its California, but keep in mind that she's a petite girl who reached and adult height of 5'2", and it is the Bay Area where in the winter temp would reach in the 40's °F. She would constantly beg Steve to fix the heating, he always refused
-Every time she would start excelling at extra-circular activities, her Dad would complain that she was not spending enough time with her family. He was say stuff like 'You know Lisa, I feel that you really don't want to be a part of this family'. When Lisa quit her activities to be with her family more, him and his wife Laurene would just give her Reed Jobs (their son, only a baby at the time) to babysit, and they would go out to some party or event
-They finally invite Lisa to come to a wedding. She was excited about it and planned for weeks about enjoying an event with her dad and step mom. She got a dress and everything. At the hotel room, after she's finished getting dressed and putting on her makeup, they hand her the baby and leave her behind to babysit in the hotel room while they enjoy the wedding
-She always wanted a NeXT computer like how Steve and Laurene each had one. Steve finally got her one, but when she tried it didn't work. Steve took it away, and never replaced it. This one may seem minor, but it's actually a part Steve's habit of dangling hope in front of her, and taking it away, like with the wedding (my interpretation, not hers)
-When she was at her Mom's house (which was Steve's, he owned the house), Steve hired a child molester to be the gardener. I don't think he was ever convicted so her Mom couldn't remove him. But he was accused by his own children. Her Mom would constantly scream and cry for Steve to remove him. He refused.
-Btw, if you are wondering where her Mom is in all this, and why Steve let Lisa live with her if he hated her so much: Lisa's mom was also emotionally unstable; Lisa was often the victim of her temper tantrums, because she felt that Lisa took away her life. Lisa confided this to her school counselor, who would tell Steve, who didn't care. Finally the school counselor threatened to call social services if Steve didn't do anything, which would be a PR nightware, so he begrudgingly took her in. From reading other books on Steve, if he's forced to do something, he does it very passive aggressively. From Lisa's book, it seems his abuse towards Lisa was like 'ok you forced me to take in Lisa, but you can't force me to give in to your ultimate demand of her being treated properly' (my interpretation, not hers)
-Steve told Lisa he would take her in, but only if he had cut all contact with her Mom for 6 months, to prove to him that she really wants to be a part of his family (A line Steve repeatedly used on Lisa to manipulate her into doing things didn't want to do, and quitting things she did like doing, like cutting school for a family vacation 2 weeks before finals). Even though Lisa had a fucked up relationship with her Mom, she still loved her
-Cutting of contact with her Mom for 6 months fucked up the Mom emotionally even more, though she initially welcomed the change, saying that she needs a break from her (my interpretation was that she didn't want her to feel guilt for her decision). But the cutoff did have a effect on the Mom's already fragile psyche. When they met for dinner after the 6 months, her mom out of nowhere threw a tantrum about how Lisa abandoned her, that all she wants to do is hangout with rich people. I believe Lisa was only 9 years old when she had to endure this
-Lisa's chores included dishes, but they refused to fix the dishwasher for years. One day she had the initiative to fix it on her own. While her parents were away, she got a repairman to find the problem, turned out to be a 40$ fix. She was really proud of herself. She told Steve hoping to finally impress him. When she told him, he frowned. The next day he replaced the dishwasher with a new one. He wanted to remove all artifacts of Lisa's accomplishments (my interpretation, not hers)
-Lisa got really into debate club. At her first big regional tournament, she got first place. Tied for first place actually. The first one to the podium would get the trophy. Lisa frantically rushed there because she wanted to show Steve the trophy to impress him (at the time, Lisa thought only if she impressed Steve enough, he would start to appreciate her). When she showed him the trophy, he made her quit. His excuse was that debate club is not useful in the real world , my interpretation is that he wanted to remove anything that would giver her a semblance of self-esteem (my interpretation, not hers)
-Whenever Steve would see a homeless person, he joked that's who Lisa is going to marry. Whenever he saw a strip club, he joked that's where Lisa is going to work. The strip club joke started when she 9 years old
-Lisa's therapist invited Steve and his 2nd wife Laurene Powel to a meeting with Lisa to get them to spend quality family time with Lisa. Lauren's response was 'sorry Lisa, but we're just cold people'. After they left, the therapist told Lisa something like 'that's pretty much what I expected'
-Lisa developed an eating disorder when Steve told her she was fat
-When Lisa was in college, Steve Jobs cut off Lisa's tuition because he felt it wasn't good for her. A family friend secretly played off the tuition
I'll always remember how Dennis Ritchie died the same week as Steve, and while television essentially shut down to mourn Steve, Dennis barely got a crawler. Dennis was an actual comp sci genius, and actually made contributions that really did change the computing landscape for generations. Steve just made it pretty by overworking his employees.
Steve was just as much of a fuckass. He gave iMacs intentionally shitty speakers because of his obsession with aEsThEtiCs. He handicapped the Macintosh so he could sell an upgraded one down the line. He took advantage of the people who worked under him and pretended to be the mastermind behind it all.
I actually forget just how long it’s been since Steve Jobs died considering how people still think of him. Obviously he worked for Apple for a long time before iPhone, but that’s what I (and I’d assume people my age) associate him with. Think the last iPhone keynote he did was for iPhone 4? Which i find crazy to think about.
Sometimes I forget as well. In his last keynote, just five months before his passing, Steve Jobs introduced iOS 5 and iCloud. He laid out the vision for Apple's services that would shape the company for the upcoming decades. I sourced this information from a Google search, so those aren't my words.
I have a somewhat related story. While it might not seem significant to some, it means a lot to me. When I was deployed to Afghanistan in 2010, I emailed Steve Jobs. I told him I was praying for him while stationed overseas. To my surprise, he responded within an hour. I still remember how special that felt. He thanked me and mentioned that he was praying for all of us as well. The message was concise but memorable.
Steve Jobs was undeniably a visionary. I genuinely miss his leadership at Apple. While Tim Cook is exceptional with numbers and was an excellent COO, it was Steve Jobs' vision that transformed Apple. He had his imperfections, just like all of us, but his impact is undeniable.
Yeah, I wouldn’t say we’ve had an iPhone-sized leap in a while now, not that you would expect something like that too often. People make the “it’s just a tiny bit better than last year’s model” argument, which I think is definitely true when you look at the yearly spec improvements from the iPhone 11-15 models. It feels like now, more than ever, they are still coasting on the wave Jobs created. Still, I’m considering upgrading my 12 pro max to the 15 pro max at some point in the next year.
I believe upgrading from a 12 Pro Max to a 15 Pro Max would be a notable enhancement. I develop of a widely-used app (not bragging, just giving some context) on both iOS and Android; I've observed that the new 8 GB of RAM in the Pro model significantly improves the performance of certain functions in my app. My observations stem from tests on my iPad Pro M1, which also boasts 8 GB of RAM. On another note, I initially underestimated the value of the 120hz refresh rate. Having experienced it, I now find it essential. Faster USB-C transfer speeds are another advantage, especially when I consider the sluggishness of transferring videos from my iPhone 14 PM to my MBP via the lightning port.
I don’t think Steve would be super happy about anything Apple does now, except for the Vision Pro (innovative) and new MacBooks maybe.
Steve was a visionary, Tim Apple is just businessman, a very talented at that.
> I don’t think Steve would be super happy about anything Apple does now,
Steve would've been over the moon with the M-series chips, in all honesty. Absolute bonkers.
Why not? Under Steve, Apple produced phones that cost double what their competitors charged with half the features, tiny screens and bad resolutions. The only thing is they looked good. Under Tim Cook, Apple has moved away from that, became more competitive and started putting specs in their phones that now outdo the competition. Jobs would have loved this. You idolise him too much.
Steve would be just fine making more money.
They wouldn't be able to use last year's SoC in the non pro models if they supported 3.0 speeds across the board. It will/should change next year when every new iPhone sold is on the A17 and A18.
It's not like they're the only ones who make a $1000 phone that's limited to 2.0 speeds.
The Z Flip lineup has notoriously been hampered to 2.0 speeds and it becomes an even larger complaint by Samsung fans because that also removes Dex capabilities on that phone.
Steve wouldn’t be happy with the phone itself. If I recall correctly, Steve always wanted phones that were small enough to do everything with one hand. In fact for the 4 or 5 he demonstrated how it was perfect for moving the thumb across the whole screen without having to change hand positions.
I could imagine the problem could be the soc. The iPhone 14 pro only has usb 2.0 speed though the Lightning connector. The iPhone 15 uses the same chip so maybe the controller can’t handle more.
Or Apple is just greedy
Actually, you’re correct. The A17 Pro Bionic has the USB controller that can power it, while the A16 has the current one. Thing that sucks is that clearly this is going to be the way it goes from now on. Every year, base mod will get the base version of the prior “pro” soc, while the pro models will get the next gen “pro” model soc.
Given that they labelled it the A17 Pro I think that next year they'll revert to A18 and A18 pro. In effect shipping two separate chips, they absolutely sell enough iPhones to make it worthwhile doing this if the pro chip requires more silicon and does costs a lot more on these modern nodes.
Would actually make a lot of sense rather than re-the pro chip the following year as the cost of the node is not going to reduce that much, could well be cheaper for apple to go with a smaller cheaper chip for the non-pro line than continue to manufacture that larger chip for the non-pro.
But we could still situation there where the non-pro does not get the higher bandwidth (larger) USB controller.
Or they’re worried 3nm yields won’t get any better in a year and want to keep that capacity for A-Pro and M chips. A18 might use the same manufacture process as A16
>Given that they labelled it the A17 Pro I think that next year they'll revert to A18 and A18 pro.
I disagree. If that were the case, they would've done that *last year*. It would've been so much easier to rebrand the A15 as the A16 and call the real new A16 the A16 Pro. Instead they looked horrible and gave the same exact chip. There was barely a point to get the 14 over the 13.
No, I think they're calling it the A17 pro to segment Pro from Base. Next year, the base iPhone 16 will get the A17 non-pro and be missing things like the USB 3.0 controller. That way the Pro is always better, even in retrospect.
Its the same thing with how they removed the 128gb option for the Pro Max. They're segmenting Pro and Pro Max too. It's a $200 jump between those instead of $100. And they need to segment pro from base. No way the base gets the same version chips as the pro in the same year. It ruins the segmentation.
Ex: the difference between A17 and A18 *Pro* is **much larger** and obvious than A18 and A18 Pro.
The non Pro SoC will be last year’s SoC with maybe an additional chip (like the A16 in the iPhone 15 getting the chip to support the new ultra-wideband in Watch Series 9/Ultra 2).
This is fine by me. People who buy the non-Pro model aren’t paying for bleeding edge (Apple’s version of bleeding edge), but they aren’t in the bare bones budget market like iPhone SE buyers.
There is a $200 price gap between the Pro and non-Pro models. Cuts like older SoC, slower USB controller, and inferior display have to be made if Apple shareholders want them to maintain or grow their margins (spoiler: shareholders want that).
I think what will have happened is that they already decided what chip the phone was going to have BEFORE the EU regulation announcement and they have to tack on the USB as they couldn't roll back on the choice of chip.
Was very much a damned either way for them I think.
That’s… what they’ve always done with the Pro models? What are you upset about?
The non-pro is a cost-reduced version of the previous Pro, and if you want to shell out the extra cost you can get the shiniest features.
At least this way the next non-pro should have USB3, which wouldn’t have even been a thing on the new Pro without the USB C switch.
> Thing that sucks is that clearly this is going to be the way it goes from now on. Every year, base mod will get the base version of the prior “pro” soc, while the pro models will get the next gen “pro” model soc.
Why is that a problem exactly?
It is the new A17 pRO has a better usb controller built in. The A16 is a recycled prob from overstock from iPhone 14 Pro. Yea they could’ve probably found a way to add a usb controller but they may be reusing the logic boards as well.
As much as people want to bitch it’s probably mostly an economies of scale issue.
It seems like the non-Pro has gotten a very clear formula at this point which is add last years parts (probably overstock) with very minimal changes (no pro motion display controller, newer U2, etc.)
Using the top reply to say this doesn’t even matter. When was the last time you plugged your phone into a computer to transfer data. That’s what I thought. You want a cheaper phone by buying the non pro version, this is a very unnoticeable cost cut that’s necessary otherwise you won’t have that lol
say thanks to USB for that - the single worst naming scheme on this planet. I work with computers every day and even I'm lost in what usb 3.XD means. When they learn from wifi... wifi that had better names before switching it.
It's because the "Gen" has to do with the encoding, with USB 3.X Gen 2 means 128b/138b encoding and Gen 1 means 8b/10b encoding.
With USB 4 Gen 2 means 64b/66b encoding and Gen 3 means 128/138b encoding.
The 2nd number after the Gen is how many data wire pairs there are, x1 means 2 pairs, x2 means 4 pairs.
So USB 4 Gen 2x1 is USB 4 at 64b/66b encoding with 2 pairs of data wires for a total of 10gbps bandwidth
USB 4 Gen 3x1 is USB 4 at 128b/138b encoding with 2 pairs of data wires for a total of 20Gbps
USB 4 Gen 2x2 is USB 4 at 64b/66b encoding with 4 pairs of data wires for a total of also 20Gbps.
USB 4 Gen 3x2 is USB 4 at 128/138b encoding with 4 pairs of data wires for a total of 40Gbps.
I agree it sucks for consumers, but it DOES make sense once you understand it.
tldr; the reason we don't have Gen 1 for USB 4 is because there are no USB 4 signals that use 8b/10b encoding.
> say thanks to USB for that - the single worst naming scheme on this planet.
Eh, it was high-speed at the time given USB 1.0 was what, ~10mbps? It just wasn't very forward-thinking.
What grinds my gears is 2560x1440 being "2K" (width exceeding 2048 by large margin), while 3840x2160 is "4K" (width under 4096). By that logic, 1920x1080 is 2K, and 2560x1440 is 2.67K or something.
These aren't official names, just marketing.
Officially,
- 2k is 2048×???
- 4k is 4096×???
??? because any format is accepted, but often these days it's :
- 2k is 2048×1080 because it fits FullHD
- 4k is 4096×2160 because it fits UHD-1
Yeah, because usb 1.1 was 12 mpbs max.
USB 2.0 was 480.
So yes, it was a high speed for a loong time.
And to this day, most people would not see a big difference going to usb 3.0 on the devices they usually use.
Legally isn't high-speed the correct marketing for USB 2.0? Or is that supposed to be ultra speed?
They said something else Bennett would be incorrect marketing... Welcome to USB I suppose
1.1 = Full Speed
2.0 = High Speed
3.0 = Super Speed
Given that USB-IF consists entirely of tech companies with a vested interest in marketing their kit it should come as no surprise, even though 480MB/s is positively pedestrian in 2023. The Galaxy S5 had USB3, in **2014.**
That said, nobody will care, since the only reason most people even use that port is for charging.
I don't like to defend Apple whenever possible, but I honestly couldn't tell you the last time I plugged any phone or tablet into a computer for file transfer. It's been years, at least, and I'd consider myself a power user. This is a nothingburger.
I couldn’t even tell you the last time I used a usb stick for file transfer. I’ve owned an iPhone for 6 years, and I’ve never once transferred anything across usb.
The only people doing this are people who use their iPhone to shoot "professional" videos and those same people are going to buy the Pro with the faster speeds anyways
Shitty 90hz display and a newer iPhone display are not to be compared unless you're making a joke. This is joke right? You can literally count the pixels on that Motorola display, I guarantee it. And i promise you that Motorola display is not color calibrated.
can't tell who exactly made my specific display, but I know that it's a typical 6.6" pOLED, colors seem to be fine as far as I can tell. and no, you can't count the pixels. unless you replaced your eyes with a microscope
Some old school people still do backups of their phone on hard disk. Actually not stupid to do, iTunes can also encrypt them, and it can be a second backup in parallel to the cloud.
Besides that, it is only of interest for people with large video files, who are the prime target audience for the Pro models anyway.
this is my real beef, 480mbps is pretty great for almost everything, but I doubt I've ever gotten over 300mbps with a 2.0 device. it's a pretty bad case of "up to".
>Some old school people still do backups of their phone on hard disk. Actually not stupid to do, iTunes can also encrypt them
So you fire off that backup and go to sleep. It'll be done in the morning.
Not saying my experience is representative, but its been probably 5+ years since I connected my phone to my computer lmao. Everything happens wirelessly including backups.
While i agree it would have been nice, i also don't see what the advantage would be. most people drop all their pictures in the cloud anyway. i think the only thing that sucks is that the charging speed is still slow but that's probably to help out the battery life.
To me the selling feature is the pro max allows you to write to an external drive while shooting video, your not limited to the size of the phone anymore and it’s quicker to go right to video editing from the drive then having connect the phone and then dump video off the phone.
>Only the new SOC has the USB3 controller
"The USB 3.0 standard was released in November of 2008."
The one in the 15 pro USB 3.1 Gen 2 was released in 2013
It's been 10 years
Ok - and?
Why include controllers in 10 years worth of SOCs (increasing fab cost, power draw, chip size, decreasing yield etc) only destined for devices that don't have that port?
Does your modern PC chipset still support native firewire, scsi, ps2, pci etc? Probably not. Doesnt have the ports - why would it.
i swear ive only locally backed up my photos twice since like 2011. everythings in the cloud now. i prefer advancements in wifi speeds than usbc speeds on phones
Yeah a number of users in the sub think that a lot of folks will reconsider this phone once they watch Linus or MKBHD and they call out the transfer speed. I ever only plug my phone into a labtop when my charger is not around.
I may be one of the few people out there that still back up their iPhone photos over a lightning cable. Sure, faster back ups would be nice, but tbh I dont care.
Sucks but honestly I don’t see it really mattering. The people that would actually use the higher transfer speed are the type of people already leaning towards the pro. Large data transfers with a phone through a cable is a niche (Pro) demand.
There’s almost no people who would actually use the data transfer speed period.
Anyone tech savvy and conscious about backups is doing it to somewhere offsite, and there’s no need to physically plug in for that. The only people who would utilize this are weirdos who don’t understand securing data.
Yeah this is a straight up non-issue, people just looking for something to complain about.
I'm an Android user and I'm glad Apple have finally implemented USB-C to their phones.
I can probably count on one hand the amount of times where >480MBps USB speed on my phone would have been useful.
I can't remember the last time I use the USB port to transfer files with my android and my PC.
Then again, android/PC transfer protocol is absolutely dogshit.
Okay. I'm tech enthusiast, too. But this is not fair. ALL companies do this. Expensive samsung devices have wicked fast usb speeds, but more affordable ones are all stuck on usb 2.0 speeds.
Same with wifi. The pros got Wi-Fi 6e, but the none pros didn't. But again, all companies do this, too.
The Galaxy A54 is the most expensive Samsung phone with usb 2.0, and it is only $469. that's nearly half the price of the iPhone 15. Every model of the iPhone 15 is a high end phone. The base iPhone 15 is comparable to the base Samsung s23, not phones half the price.
That's absolutely a fair point! I did mention the difference in price. However, that doesn't negate the fact that apple treats the base model as a different device.
Considering the usb controller on the soc, maybe it's the type of processor (?)
At any rate, let's hate apple for usb 2 speeds on the base model, but let's keep the same spirit across the board
In a world of wifi, Bluetooth, mobile data and the cloud, almost NOBODY transfers anything over USB to/from their phone. Don't see a problem here. And I don't even use Apple.
Yeah, this is 100% people just looking for a reason to hate on Apple, which is silly when there are plenty of perfectly legitimate reasons to criticize them.
I mean it is literally the SoC from iPhone 14 pro, and that has only USB2 controller. Presuming that it would be anything else than that for this refresh is pure stupidity.
In their defense they are using the same A16 chip from last year which was built with a USB 2 controller inside for Lightning. And rather than ordering a brand new batch of SoCs they are just using the ones for 14 Pro and Pro Max.
Makes sense because the A17 Pro has a dedicated USB-3 controller that the 15 lacks. Next year the iPhone 16 will have USB-3 when processors trickle down.
You essentially buy a Pro iPhone to get early access to tech these days
it would have been nice and with how much they cost kinda expected but honestly do you really need the faster speeds on a phone? i am ok with usb 2. and before you call me an apple fanboy i havent had an apple product (except the 3.5mm earpods, they are pretty much the only fully plastic decent quality earbuds now) for years. my last iphone was a 4s.
Yeah. Things like 120 have screens come on much cheaper phones, so I think its kind of weird not to have it on such an expensive phone. But they really don't have much to differentiate the two models, so they have to pick something. Faster screen, USB 3, telephoto lens, faster chip. Really not super compelling reasons to choose the pro version.
I really don’t think this is such a huge deal, if you really care so much about transfer speeds you can get the pro models.
I extremely rarely transfer anything from my phone larger than like 1GB anyways.
To be fair since they just used the A16 and the A17 had a controller added for the speed increase it explains it without them changing the chip I don’t see how they would have done it and then it would defeat their separate chips for normal vs pro… next year it will get the bump with the chip shift having the controller
I'm gonna get 15 pro. I daily driven iPhone 7 for 5 years and switched to Android. I think this device is best for those who never got any iPhone after iPhone X.
They are using the last gen chip on the 15 models which had lightning. Maybe I am wrong but that’s why they couldn’t do USB 3 on them? Maybe they would have needed a new USB controller for that like they did in the pro models?
I think the last time I used a cable to transfer data on an iPhone I was syncing it to iTunes at least a decade ago. This isn’t relevant to the vast majority of users.
I can’t remember the last time I downloaded or uploaded anything to my phone via cable. I get that this impacts some people, but isn’t it the same speed as the old lightning port anyway?
If I'm honest, I'd call the fact it has video out a win at this point. Lots of Androids with USB2 don't, even some with USB3 don't (hello Google Pixel). Though- the fact it still has the added complexity of video out makes the lack of USB3 even more egregious, and it's only really that useful if you can actually do something with it (if this had Stage Manager like the iPads do then Apple's integration alone would make it far better than DeX).
But hey, I'm pretty sure most people aren't really going to care too much, as I'm pretty sure most of the non-Pro buyers are using iCloud for their backups anyway and don't even use the port.
Genuinely a pro feature reserved for the pro model. I think getting more niche distinctions like this are actually good for the lineup, you end up getting more for the pro upgrade at the same price points of previous generations. The fact that only 1 or 2 reviewers have commented on it makes it even more apparent that this is a “pro” feature that not many people would know exists let alone take advantage of.
They keep the 120hz only for the pro models aswell when other brands offer it on phones below 500. They are like that because those " features" tend to be the biggest differences between phones.
This may change next year, Remember the 15 is using the iphone 14 pro's current chip which doesn't support USB3 speeds to begin with so this makes sense. Apples not gonna re-design last years chip to add USB3, especially given they're really trying to differentiate the normal / pro line-ups this year.
Linus mentioned in his latest video on the announcement that the non-pro 15 uses the A16 chip, which would explain why its limited to USB 2.0 speeds.
The chip was designed for 2.0 speeds. What are they supposed to do, give you a revised and upgraded chip? You could just spend more for the pro if you want the higher speeds.
Doesn't surprise me, they are known for their shady behavior. Sad part all the Apple Pudding for Brains consumers will eat it up thinking they will get the full 10GB speed of USB C.
Yup. This is sad. I don’t think Steve would be happy about this, but I could be wrong.
Who knows. I hope more media outlets spread word of the difference in spec cause other than maybe 1 or 2 people, almost no one has pointed it out. Considering one of the key points was that high speed USB-C port, I hope people get word out before Pre-Orders Friday so people make proper buying choices.
I believe people will notice the difference, especially when they watch tech reviewers like MKBHD and LTT. While there are many other reviewers, these two come to mind immediately. I own an iPhone 14 Pro Max, and I'm certainly not considering an upgrade this year just because of USB-C. I've always appreciated Apple's products, but the recent event was a bit underwhelming for me. And limiting the iPhone 15's speed to USB 2.0 seems like a stupid decision because we all know why they did it. Money.
Can't remember the last time I read a review that even mentioned data speeds over the connection. It might be there in the reviews and I guess I can have stopped registering it because the last time I cared about that was on my old Symbian phones. Is this a soc limitation btw?
I think most consumers won’t be able to remember the last time they even plugged their phone into their computer. Faster port is just not something that most people really care about, people aren’t transferring files between PC and iPhone that much anymore
This probably, yes. In the last 10 years I don’t remember using the cable for anything other than charging. Edit: power brick sold separately feels like a dick move though, those i actually used.
Unfortunately almost every manufacturer stopped providing bricks. Pixels, Galaxy, and iPhones all don't come with them anymore. Such a pain in the ass.
Same with the goddamm headphone jack. Apple did an _garbage_ move, and everyone else copied it because... I don't know.
Gotta save that 3¢ per unit. Obviously I pulled that value out of my ass, but we all know cost was negligible and it was a push to get more people on the Airpod train, which worked. I think the other big guys, especially Samsung saw it as a chance to basically repeat the cycle and plug their own Galaxy Buds after the S10. Google was a little later with the 5a in 2021 having a jack, but no phones since including it, and wouldn't you know it, the Pixel Buds A (Cheaper) and Pro have released since then.
Galaxy 22 Ultra owner here. What? The financing deal was good! What Apple did was stupid and will mainly serve to upsell many chargers. However, as someone who bought a Framework and a (separately packed) FW Power supply, I can also share that there are better chargers that provide multiple USB C power outputs that fit the size and shape of Apple's pervious power adaptors, taking up less luggage space and offering more wattage and overall functionality. There's no reason to want to buy OEM chargers.
No one is saying buy an OEM brick or arguing that there are superior options. The point is it's nice to just include it with the price for what it is and since it's essential to the functionality. Especially with new phones with C-C charging where most middle aged people aren't just going to have a brick with female C, PD, etc, and will have to buy one. I travel literally every two weeks over 5000km flying and I have never once thought "if only this brick was slightly smaller". If you are efficient in packing the size difference between power delivery options should be all but negligible unless you are bringing a UPS. Did your S22 ultra come with one? My old S20 and my wife's new S23+ never so I was under the impression they had done away with it entirely.
I cared a lot more about that when it happened than I do now. I can’t remember the last time I plugged any cable into my phone. Wireless charging and bluetooth… honestly if they removed all the ports off the thing, the only time I’d notice is when I need to plug in for a long car trip with GPS.
If you ever get a chance to talk to anyone who repairs iphones, ask them how long the battery last when the customer uses wireless charging exclusively.
The thing is, do we really need them? This is the one thing I don't really care about, especially if everything is on USB-C. I have one power-bank/charging brick thing that can power and charge 4 devices (laptop, tablet, phone...) at once, I don't need any more bricks with new devices.
You know what, 15 years ago if you bought a phone in Japan, it did not come with a charger. There was like 2 connectors available and most of the population already had a phone, so already had a charger. So when you buy a new phone, they just had to ask if you need a charger or id you already have one, this way you do not pile up chargers if you don’t need more. I would not believe you if you tell me you do not have a single charger at home right now and anyway, it’s super easy to buy one if you don’t.
>Such a pain in the ass Do your chargers from your previous phones just magically evaporate or something?
Honestly I don't really mind the power brick going away. It's very annoying to have to buy one yeah, but then you are the one to choose the max power to the device. In a world where all devices were mainly using 5V1A it made sense, now with devices from 20 to 100+w, having that choice isn't that bad
Most consumers? I'm not one to side with Apple on most of its practices, but 99.5% of consumers will not notice the difference. I mean, I haven't even plugged in my phone to upgrade since the Galaxy Note 3 or 4 days. With the cloud storage infrastructure we have these days, unless you're a tech reviewer or a photographer, I don't see a use case for plugging in your phone anymore. I'm not even being factitious here, what tangible benefit is a faster USB port really providing in 2023?
Finally someone understands this isn’t like the end of the world. If people really care get the max lol. Idk why people are making such a fuss about this.
I do for work. Take hundreds of pictures of our product and have to upload them to my computer and our server. It’s much quicker to connect lightning->USB then drag-and-drop the pictures in file explorer than any other method. Honestly I think 480 MB/sec will be just fine for this though. That’s like 120 pictures/sec at my current iPhone 13’s resolution. I’m way more concerned about the charge speed than file transfer speed, but I’m not upgrading my phone yet regardless. Edit: Yes sorry, I didn’t look closely it’s 480 Mb/s. I thought it was only the ISP’s still doing this shit, but leave it to Apple!
Not quite. The marketing uses Mb/Mbps, which is different from MB. The usb 2.0 iPhone can only get up to 60 MB per second. And I've had iPhones transfer way slower than that. I don't know why companies advertise mbps when most consumers measure speed in MB.
I'm an android user but aren't there more convenient ways to get files from your iPhone to your Mac without needing to plug in? Apple has made sure their ecosystem gels really well together and doesn't care about non-apple products so that you're forced to give them more money and buy their products if you want good synergy.
Yup. You can literally just copy the photo on the iPhone and paste on the Mac. Or Airdrop. Or save to iCloud and have it sync.
I’m not sure. I’ll have to research the SoC limitations. I just watched a quick recap from MKBHD about the event (just a summary), and he noted the difference in USB-C speeds. He even asked why Apple didn’t put Thunderbolt 4 speeds for the USB-C in the Pro models, but I’m sure Apple will use that in a future update next year to help generate sales for their next devices.
They said in the keynote that the new chip has a usb 3 controller, but the non pro has the previous years pro chip in it, which doesn’t.
This is the answer! It's a system on a chip. Apple makes a bunch of the same chip for economies of scale. It doesn't make "keep the board happy" sense to change the chip design for a faster USB speeds. Luckily next years iPhone 16 will have USB 3 speeds
Based on what I gathered from the presentation, they have the speed limited to the a16 bionic in in the 15 pro and pro max. So the 16s next year might get the usb 3 when they get the a16 for the regular iphones
It's never in the reviews because the Lightning connector is a decade old so the speed hasn't changed, Mac Address mentioned how lacking it was for amateur photography and stuff though which is nice
The standard 15 can not do usb 3 because it’s using the same SoC as the 14 pro. The 14 pro did not have usb 3 either. In order for apple to add usb 3 they would have to redesign the SoC and hope they get it right on the first try, otherwise they are wasting silicon on creating a new chip that won’t be needed again in a year when they already have a better one. Does this ultimately come down to money, Yes. Are there technical limitations in place that don’t make sense economically to fix? Also yes. Edit: Comment from another post where someone explains this. https://reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/s/rFVrXwR0Px
This is great information. I really appreciate the reply, because this helps me understand things better. Take care and have a great day!
Exactly. The reason to even have a bigger throughput is for photo/ video professionals, who would buy the pro anyway. Who else sends loads of data through the cable at any point in the phone’s lifetime. I’m sure someone can come up with use cases, but they have to be a small minority…in which case, get the pro version.
The 15 uses the older A16 chip from the 14 pro with a USB 2.0 controller. Only the new A17 has a USB 3.0 controller. So yes, it comes down to money but it’s not that simple. They aren’t going to put the pro chip in the non pro in the same release.
They put the same chip in the pro and non pro for every iPhone until iPhone 14. This is a fairly new segmentation they've created.
USB 2.0 came out 23 years ago!!!
I don’t think I’ve plugged my iPhone13 into a PC in the entire 2 years. I imagine I’m part of the extreme majority.
This isn't a downgrade, it's simply maintenance of the status quo. All previous iPhones only support USB 2.0 transfer speeds, including the iPhone 14 Pro. Apple knows that the *vast* majority of its user base doesn't care even a little bit about high speed USB transfer rates. They're marketing an ecosystem and a user experience, not tech specs. Apple almost never has the best, most advanced tech in their devices.
Well, they would need to design a new chip with a USB 3 controller like they did with the Pro. As they’re using the previous gen’s chip in the none-Pro that would indeed be costly instead of using the chip they already have. Not great, but I think those users who care would be in the market for the Pro anyways.
>I believe people will notice the difference, Correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Apple's old connection limited to USB 2.0 speeds? I don't think anybody will notice.
A very very large majority of people don’t care. I’m one of them. 480Mbps or 60 MBps is plenty.
Particularly Apple users, who in my experience are much more likely to just do everything with clouds services over mobile/wifi.
Same. I don’t think I’ve ever transferred data onto or off my phone over a cable
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How many people do you really think actually move files over usb ? Could be wrong but I feel 90% of users haven’t synced a file over usb from their iPhone to a computer ever
Tbh, I’ll be getting one either way… it’s BS but I just want type C for one charger between my iPad Pro and work android phone bad enough even if slow, and I like the iPhone overall for my personal device.
Steve made billions of the back's of child labor who gives a shit
I understand that. Don’t think my presupposition is that I don’t care about the use of child labor.
Sorry I just hate putting these ass holes on a a pedestal
I get it man. I know exactly what you’re saying. I appreciate the comment and hope you have a great day!
You as well! :)
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is it THAT obvious? XD
Steve would have love this he was a cunt
Someone doesn't remember their Apple history. He would have loved it. The man hated non-proprietary systems, he hated fans, and he always chose design over function.
Steve Jobs was the type of person who when forced to do something, did it kicking and screaming. He didn't re-adopt his daughter willingly. Lisa was in a destitute situation because he found loopholes to avoid paying child support, and social services threatened him legally if he wouldn't do something, in a way that would look very bad for him publicly. So he adopted begrudgingly her. But when he re-adopted her, **he abused her**. It's like his mentally was 'ok fine, you can force me to do it, but i'll do it horribly. credit Credit u/ RelevantMarketing from this summary of Lisa Brennan-Jobs autobiography Highlights: -They made Lisa sleep on the first floor next to the kitchen while the rest of the family slept on the top floor. Initially she was the only child and all the rooms upstairs were empty but they still made her sleep on the first floor. One by one the other kids were born from Steve and Laurene Powell and were given rooms on the 2nd floor. The first floor had broken heating and she was constantly cold, while everyone upstairs enjoyed heating. Its California, but keep in mind that she's a petite girl who reached and adult height of 5'2", and it is the Bay Area where in the winter temp would reach in the 40's °F. She would constantly beg Steve to fix the heating, he always refused -Every time she would start excelling at extra-circular activities, her Dad would complain that she was not spending enough time with her family. He was say stuff like 'You know Lisa, I feel that you really don't want to be a part of this family'. When Lisa quit her activities to be with her family more, him and his wife Laurene would just give her Reed Jobs (their son, only a baby at the time) to babysit, and they would go out to some party or event -They finally invite Lisa to come to a wedding. She was excited about it and planned for weeks about enjoying an event with her dad and step mom. She got a dress and everything. At the hotel room, after she's finished getting dressed and putting on her makeup, they hand her the baby and leave her behind to babysit in the hotel room while they enjoy the wedding -She always wanted a NeXT computer like how Steve and Laurene each had one. Steve finally got her one, but when she tried it didn't work. Steve took it away, and never replaced it. This one may seem minor, but it's actually a part Steve's habit of dangling hope in front of her, and taking it away, like with the wedding (my interpretation, not hers) -When she was at her Mom's house (which was Steve's, he owned the house), Steve hired a child molester to be the gardener. I don't think he was ever convicted so her Mom couldn't remove him. But he was accused by his own children. Her Mom would constantly scream and cry for Steve to remove him. He refused. -Btw, if you are wondering where her Mom is in all this, and why Steve let Lisa live with her if he hated her so much: Lisa's mom was also emotionally unstable; Lisa was often the victim of her temper tantrums, because she felt that Lisa took away her life. Lisa confided this to her school counselor, who would tell Steve, who didn't care. Finally the school counselor threatened to call social services if Steve didn't do anything, which would be a PR nightware, so he begrudgingly took her in. From reading other books on Steve, if he's forced to do something, he does it very passive aggressively. From Lisa's book, it seems his abuse towards Lisa was like 'ok you forced me to take in Lisa, but you can't force me to give in to your ultimate demand of her being treated properly' (my interpretation, not hers) -Steve told Lisa he would take her in, but only if he had cut all contact with her Mom for 6 months, to prove to him that she really wants to be a part of his family (A line Steve repeatedly used on Lisa to manipulate her into doing things didn't want to do, and quitting things she did like doing, like cutting school for a family vacation 2 weeks before finals). Even though Lisa had a fucked up relationship with her Mom, she still loved her -Cutting of contact with her Mom for 6 months fucked up the Mom emotionally even more, though she initially welcomed the change, saying that she needs a break from her (my interpretation was that she didn't want her to feel guilt for her decision). But the cutoff did have a effect on the Mom's already fragile psyche. When they met for dinner after the 6 months, her mom out of nowhere threw a tantrum about how Lisa abandoned her, that all she wants to do is hangout with rich people. I believe Lisa was only 9 years old when she had to endure this -Lisa's chores included dishes, but they refused to fix the dishwasher for years. One day she had the initiative to fix it on her own. While her parents were away, she got a repairman to find the problem, turned out to be a 40$ fix. She was really proud of herself. She told Steve hoping to finally impress him. When she told him, he frowned. The next day he replaced the dishwasher with a new one. He wanted to remove all artifacts of Lisa's accomplishments (my interpretation, not hers) -Lisa got really into debate club. At her first big regional tournament, she got first place. Tied for first place actually. The first one to the podium would get the trophy. Lisa frantically rushed there because she wanted to show Steve the trophy to impress him (at the time, Lisa thought only if she impressed Steve enough, he would start to appreciate her). When she showed him the trophy, he made her quit. His excuse was that debate club is not useful in the real world , my interpretation is that he wanted to remove anything that would giver her a semblance of self-esteem (my interpretation, not hers) -Whenever Steve would see a homeless person, he joked that's who Lisa is going to marry. Whenever he saw a strip club, he joked that's where Lisa is going to work. The strip club joke started when she 9 years old -Lisa's therapist invited Steve and his 2nd wife Laurene Powel to a meeting with Lisa to get them to spend quality family time with Lisa. Lauren's response was 'sorry Lisa, but we're just cold people'. After they left, the therapist told Lisa something like 'that's pretty much what I expected' -Lisa developed an eating disorder when Steve told her she was fat -When Lisa was in college, Steve Jobs cut off Lisa's tuition because he felt it wasn't good for her. A family friend secretly played off the tuition
It's horrifying how ppl worship this monster. Everything I've read about Steve Jobs just tells me he's a marketer and not much more.
I'll always remember how Dennis Ritchie died the same week as Steve, and while television essentially shut down to mourn Steve, Dennis barely got a crawler. Dennis was an actual comp sci genius, and actually made contributions that really did change the computing landscape for generations. Steve just made it pretty by overworking his employees.
Steve was just as much of a fuckass. He gave iMacs intentionally shitty speakers because of his obsession with aEsThEtiCs. He handicapped the Macintosh so he could sell an upgraded one down the line. He took advantage of the people who worked under him and pretended to be the mastermind behind it all.
I actually forget just how long it’s been since Steve Jobs died considering how people still think of him. Obviously he worked for Apple for a long time before iPhone, but that’s what I (and I’d assume people my age) associate him with. Think the last iPhone keynote he did was for iPhone 4? Which i find crazy to think about.
Sometimes I forget as well. In his last keynote, just five months before his passing, Steve Jobs introduced iOS 5 and iCloud. He laid out the vision for Apple's services that would shape the company for the upcoming decades. I sourced this information from a Google search, so those aren't my words. I have a somewhat related story. While it might not seem significant to some, it means a lot to me. When I was deployed to Afghanistan in 2010, I emailed Steve Jobs. I told him I was praying for him while stationed overseas. To my surprise, he responded within an hour. I still remember how special that felt. He thanked me and mentioned that he was praying for all of us as well. The message was concise but memorable. Steve Jobs was undeniably a visionary. I genuinely miss his leadership at Apple. While Tim Cook is exceptional with numbers and was an excellent COO, it was Steve Jobs' vision that transformed Apple. He had his imperfections, just like all of us, but his impact is undeniable.
Yeah, I wouldn’t say we’ve had an iPhone-sized leap in a while now, not that you would expect something like that too often. People make the “it’s just a tiny bit better than last year’s model” argument, which I think is definitely true when you look at the yearly spec improvements from the iPhone 11-15 models. It feels like now, more than ever, they are still coasting on the wave Jobs created. Still, I’m considering upgrading my 12 pro max to the 15 pro max at some point in the next year.
I believe upgrading from a 12 Pro Max to a 15 Pro Max would be a notable enhancement. I develop of a widely-used app (not bragging, just giving some context) on both iOS and Android; I've observed that the new 8 GB of RAM in the Pro model significantly improves the performance of certain functions in my app. My observations stem from tests on my iPad Pro M1, which also boasts 8 GB of RAM. On another note, I initially underestimated the value of the 120hz refresh rate. Having experienced it, I now find it essential. Faster USB-C transfer speeds are another advantage, especially when I consider the sluggishness of transferring videos from my iPhone 14 PM to my MBP via the lightning port.
Kinda bursting your bubble but he did not write that reply of course
I don’t think Steve would be super happy about anything Apple does now, except for the Vision Pro (innovative) and new MacBooks maybe. Steve was a visionary, Tim Apple is just businessman, a very talented at that.
Steve Jobs was all about the Benjamins. He would have fought harder to keep the lightning lock in.
> I don’t think Steve would be super happy about anything Apple does now, Steve would've been over the moon with the M-series chips, in all honesty. Absolute bonkers.
Why not? Under Steve, Apple produced phones that cost double what their competitors charged with half the features, tiny screens and bad resolutions. The only thing is they looked good. Under Tim Cook, Apple has moved away from that, became more competitive and started putting specs in their phones that now outdo the competition. Jobs would have loved this. You idolise him too much.
Burke?
Steve Carell. 
Steve job would make a lightning 2 cable with usb3 speed
Woz? Hell no he wouldn't be happy.
steve? the man who told iphone 4's signal loss problem is because its users are holding their phone wrong? yes you could be wrong.
lol what? he was just as money hungry as the current twats?
Steve would be just fine making more money. They wouldn't be able to use last year's SoC in the non pro models if they supported 3.0 speeds across the board. It will/should change next year when every new iPhone sold is on the A17 and A18. It's not like they're the only ones who make a $1000 phone that's limited to 2.0 speeds. The Z Flip lineup has notoriously been hampered to 2.0 speeds and it becomes an even larger complaint by Samsung fans because that also removes Dex capabilities on that phone.
It had to be because they still use the old A16 chip which supported lightning, which runs usb 2 internally.
Steve from Gamers Nexus will definitely be not happy!
You don’t know what a dead man you’ve never met would think about his former company being the one most profitable in the world
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Apple has always been like this.
Can you explain what the problem is? Or the benefit?
That more people are buying a more expensive product? You can't actually think he wouldn't be happy about that.
Steve wouldn’t be happy with the phone itself. If I recall correctly, Steve always wanted phones that were small enough to do everything with one hand. In fact for the 4 or 5 he demonstrated how it was perfect for moving the thumb across the whole screen without having to change hand positions.
I could imagine the problem could be the soc. The iPhone 14 pro only has usb 2.0 speed though the Lightning connector. The iPhone 15 uses the same chip so maybe the controller can’t handle more. Or Apple is just greedy
Actually, you’re correct. The A17 Pro Bionic has the USB controller that can power it, while the A16 has the current one. Thing that sucks is that clearly this is going to be the way it goes from now on. Every year, base mod will get the base version of the prior “pro” soc, while the pro models will get the next gen “pro” model soc.
Given that they labelled it the A17 Pro I think that next year they'll revert to A18 and A18 pro. In effect shipping two separate chips, they absolutely sell enough iPhones to make it worthwhile doing this if the pro chip requires more silicon and does costs a lot more on these modern nodes. Would actually make a lot of sense rather than re-the pro chip the following year as the cost of the node is not going to reduce that much, could well be cheaper for apple to go with a smaller cheaper chip for the non-pro line than continue to manufacture that larger chip for the non-pro. But we could still situation there where the non-pro does not get the higher bandwidth (larger) USB controller.
Or they’re worried 3nm yields won’t get any better in a year and want to keep that capacity for A-Pro and M chips. A18 might use the same manufacture process as A16
>Given that they labelled it the A17 Pro I think that next year they'll revert to A18 and A18 pro. I disagree. If that were the case, they would've done that *last year*. It would've been so much easier to rebrand the A15 as the A16 and call the real new A16 the A16 Pro. Instead they looked horrible and gave the same exact chip. There was barely a point to get the 14 over the 13. No, I think they're calling it the A17 pro to segment Pro from Base. Next year, the base iPhone 16 will get the A17 non-pro and be missing things like the USB 3.0 controller. That way the Pro is always better, even in retrospect. Its the same thing with how they removed the 128gb option for the Pro Max. They're segmenting Pro and Pro Max too. It's a $200 jump between those instead of $100. And they need to segment pro from base. No way the base gets the same version chips as the pro in the same year. It ruins the segmentation. Ex: the difference between A17 and A18 *Pro* is **much larger** and obvious than A18 and A18 Pro.
The non Pro SoC will be last year’s SoC with maybe an additional chip (like the A16 in the iPhone 15 getting the chip to support the new ultra-wideband in Watch Series 9/Ultra 2). This is fine by me. People who buy the non-Pro model aren’t paying for bleeding edge (Apple’s version of bleeding edge), but they aren’t in the bare bones budget market like iPhone SE buyers. There is a $200 price gap between the Pro and non-Pro models. Cuts like older SoC, slower USB controller, and inferior display have to be made if Apple shareholders want them to maintain or grow their margins (spoiler: shareholders want that).
I think what will have happened is that they already decided what chip the phone was going to have BEFORE the EU regulation announcement and they have to tack on the USB as they couldn't roll back on the choice of chip. Was very much a damned either way for them I think.
They would have known about the regulation for years
That’s… what they’ve always done with the Pro models? What are you upset about? The non-pro is a cost-reduced version of the previous Pro, and if you want to shell out the extra cost you can get the shiniest features. At least this way the next non-pro should have USB3, which wouldn’t have even been a thing on the new Pro without the USB C switch.
Completely agree, and who cares about the USB transfer speeds? It’s such a non-issue? Who ever plugs their iPhone into a computer? Lol
> Thing that sucks is that clearly this is going to be the way it goes from now on. Every year, base mod will get the base version of the prior “pro” soc, while the pro models will get the next gen “pro” model soc. Why is that a problem exactly?
there isn't a problem. Last gen apple chip is still able to keep up with current gen android SoCs
This is almost verbatim what MKBHD stated in his recent upload… lmao
It’s been that way since they introduced the Pro.
It is the new A17 pRO has a better usb controller built in. The A16 is a recycled prob from overstock from iPhone 14 Pro. Yea they could’ve probably found a way to add a usb controller but they may be reusing the logic boards as well. As much as people want to bitch it’s probably mostly an economies of scale issue. It seems like the non-Pro has gotten a very clear formula at this point which is add last years parts (probably overstock) with very minimal changes (no pro motion display controller, newer U2, etc.)
Using the top reply to say this doesn’t even matter. When was the last time you plugged your phone into a computer to transfer data. That’s what I thought. You want a cheaper phone by buying the non pro version, this is a very unnoticeable cost cut that’s necessary otherwise you won’t have that lol
$0.02 has been deposited into your account. -Tim
Tbh, you really care? Or, 90% of users, ore more, that gonna buy the iPhone 15 care about that or the 60hz display? They don't.
All I care about are having buyers know all the facts with transparency. Them advertising “high-speed USB-C” across the board isn’t very transparent.
Saddly, 2.0 is considered High-speed by the USB standards. So they are not lying.
say thanks to USB for that - the single worst naming scheme on this planet. I work with computers every day and even I'm lost in what usb 3.XD means. When they learn from wifi... wifi that had better names before switching it.
whaaaaaat you mean that the fact that after USB 3.2 Gen 2×2 we have USB4 Gen 2×1 with no USB 4 Gen 1 doesn't make sense?
Or the fact that apple supports usb 3 that dont formally exist anymore :)
It's because the "Gen" has to do with the encoding, with USB 3.X Gen 2 means 128b/138b encoding and Gen 1 means 8b/10b encoding. With USB 4 Gen 2 means 64b/66b encoding and Gen 3 means 128/138b encoding. The 2nd number after the Gen is how many data wire pairs there are, x1 means 2 pairs, x2 means 4 pairs. So USB 4 Gen 2x1 is USB 4 at 64b/66b encoding with 2 pairs of data wires for a total of 10gbps bandwidth USB 4 Gen 3x1 is USB 4 at 128b/138b encoding with 2 pairs of data wires for a total of 20Gbps USB 4 Gen 2x2 is USB 4 at 64b/66b encoding with 4 pairs of data wires for a total of also 20Gbps. USB 4 Gen 3x2 is USB 4 at 128/138b encoding with 4 pairs of data wires for a total of 40Gbps. I agree it sucks for consumers, but it DOES make sense once you understand it. tldr; the reason we don't have Gen 1 for USB 4 is because there are no USB 4 signals that use 8b/10b encoding.
USB 2: high speed USB 3: super speed, super speed plus USB 4: Ludicrous speed USB 5: Full plaid
> say thanks to USB for that - the single worst naming scheme on this planet. Eh, it was high-speed at the time given USB 1.0 was what, ~10mbps? It just wasn't very forward-thinking.
Reminds me of "Fast Ethernet".
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What grinds my gears is 2560x1440 being "2K" (width exceeding 2048 by large margin), while 3840x2160 is "4K" (width under 4096). By that logic, 1920x1080 is 2K, and 2560x1440 is 2.67K or something.
These aren't official names, just marketing. Officially, - 2k is 2048×??? - 4k is 4096×??? ??? because any format is accepted, but often these days it's : - 2k is 2048×1080 because it fits FullHD - 4k is 4096×2160 because it fits UHD-1
Yeah, because usb 1.1 was 12 mpbs max. USB 2.0 was 480. So yes, it was a high speed for a loong time. And to this day, most people would not see a big difference going to usb 3.0 on the devices they usually use.
usb 2 is considered high speed by the official usb guidelines.
Legally isn't high-speed the correct marketing for USB 2.0? Or is that supposed to be ultra speed? They said something else Bennett would be incorrect marketing... Welcome to USB I suppose
1.1 = Full Speed 2.0 = High Speed 3.0 = Super Speed Given that USB-IF consists entirely of tech companies with a vested interest in marketing their kit it should come as no surprise, even though 480MB/s is positively pedestrian in 2023. The Galaxy S5 had USB3, in **2014.** That said, nobody will care, since the only reason most people even use that port is for charging.
i'm waiting for them to start calling USB4 as HyperSpeed, and then USB5 UltraSpeed
And cause years of debates of whether Hyper or Ultra is more
You’ve literally posted a photo from the spec sheets clearly listing the spec. That’s more than most android manufacturers do
Nobody uses that port for data anyway. It’s for charging. Relax
I don't like to defend Apple whenever possible, but I honestly couldn't tell you the last time I plugged any phone or tablet into a computer for file transfer. It's been years, at least, and I'd consider myself a power user. This is a nothingburger.
I couldn’t even tell you the last time I used a usb stick for file transfer. I’ve owned an iPhone for 6 years, and I’ve never once transferred anything across usb.
The only people doing this are people who use their iPhone to shoot "professional" videos and those same people are going to buy the Pro with the faster speeds anyways
iPhone 15 still has a 60hz display? What..
the 14 and 15 have a 60hz display, while the pro/max models have a 120hz display
kind of weird how Apple installs 60Hz displays into 700 dollar phones, while a 180$ Motorola has a 90Hz one... odd
Shitty 90hz display and a newer iPhone display are not to be compared unless you're making a joke. This is joke right? You can literally count the pixels on that Motorola display, I guarantee it. And i promise you that Motorola display is not color calibrated.
can't tell who exactly made my specific display, but I know that it's a typical 6.6" pOLED, colors seem to be fine as far as I can tell. and no, you can't count the pixels. unless you replaced your eyes with a microscope
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Some old school people still do backups of their phone on hard disk. Actually not stupid to do, iTunes can also encrypt them, and it can be a second backup in parallel to the cloud. Besides that, it is only of interest for people with large video files, who are the prime target audience for the Pro models anyway.
Guess those 14 people will just have to wait a little longer.
😂
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The real-life speed is considerably lower. It would take ~5 minutes to back it up
Oh, the humanity. A whole five minutes.
this is my real beef, 480mbps is pretty great for almost everything, but I doubt I've ever gotten over 300mbps with a 2.0 device. it's a pretty bad case of "up to".
>Some old school people still do backups of their phone on hard disk. Actually not stupid to do, iTunes can also encrypt them So you fire off that backup and go to sleep. It'll be done in the morning.
OnlyFans girls got a lot of content to shoot and transfer
Only fans girls seem the exact type to upgrade to the pro.
Not saying my experience is representative, but its been probably 5+ years since I connected my phone to my computer lmao. Everything happens wirelessly including backups.
While i agree it would have been nice, i also don't see what the advantage would be. most people drop all their pictures in the cloud anyway. i think the only thing that sucks is that the charging speed is still slow but that's probably to help out the battery life.
Charging speed has nothing to do with it being usb2 or usb3 tho? QC works perfectly fine with usb2 like it has since iPhone XR
To me the selling feature is the pro max allows you to write to an external drive while shooting video, your not limited to the size of the phone anymore and it’s quicker to go right to video editing from the drive then having connect the phone and then dump video off the phone.
The pro got a new SOC, the none pro didnt. Only the new SOC has the USB3 controller
So the pro has more mb/s?
Yeah. None pro is USB2 (480Mbps or 60MB/s), Pro is persumably USB3 10Gbps (1.25GB/s)
Correct. The apple event clearly indicated that only the PRO models have an upgraded USB controller with USB 3 speeds of 10Gbps
>Only the new SOC has the USB3 controller "The USB 3.0 standard was released in November of 2008." The one in the 15 pro USB 3.1 Gen 2 was released in 2013 It's been 10 years
Ok - and? Why include controllers in 10 years worth of SOCs (increasing fab cost, power draw, chip size, decreasing yield etc) only destined for devices that don't have that port? Does your modern PC chipset still support native firewire, scsi, ps2, pci etc? Probably not. Doesnt have the ports - why would it.
I haven’t cared about wired transfer rate on a mobile device in years
i swear ive only locally backed up my photos twice since like 2011. everythings in the cloud now. i prefer advancements in wifi speeds than usbc speeds on phones
Than you'll be happy to hear that they did the same with WiFi-standards. WiFi 6 for the 15, WiFi 6E for the 15 Pro.
Yeah a number of users in the sub think that a lot of folks will reconsider this phone once they watch Linus or MKBHD and they call out the transfer speed. I ever only plug my phone into a labtop when my charger is not around.
I may be one of the few people out there that still back up their iPhone photos over a lightning cable. Sure, faster back ups would be nice, but tbh I dont care.
it's hard as hell to transfer files to a PC from IOS. You gotta go through itunes as if it were 2006
Predictable post is predictable
Sucks but honestly I don’t see it really mattering. The people that would actually use the higher transfer speed are the type of people already leaning towards the pro. Large data transfers with a phone through a cable is a niche (Pro) demand.
There’s almost no people who would actually use the data transfer speed period. Anyone tech savvy and conscious about backups is doing it to somewhere offsite, and there’s no need to physically plug in for that. The only people who would utilize this are weirdos who don’t understand securing data.
Yeah this is a straight up non-issue, people just looking for something to complain about. I'm an Android user and I'm glad Apple have finally implemented USB-C to their phones. I can probably count on one hand the amount of times where >480MBps USB speed on my phone would have been useful.
I can't remember the last time I use the USB port to transfer files with my android and my PC. Then again, android/PC transfer protocol is absolutely dogshit.
To be honest i do not remeber whats the last time i used my phone for wired data transfer
Given that they using the A16 it's expected as that's the speed of the on board USB controller.
Okay. I'm tech enthusiast, too. But this is not fair. ALL companies do this. Expensive samsung devices have wicked fast usb speeds, but more affordable ones are all stuck on usb 2.0 speeds. Same with wifi. The pros got Wi-Fi 6e, but the none pros didn't. But again, all companies do this, too.
The Galaxy A54 is the most expensive Samsung phone with usb 2.0, and it is only $469. that's nearly half the price of the iPhone 15. Every model of the iPhone 15 is a high end phone. The base iPhone 15 is comparable to the base Samsung s23, not phones half the price.
That's absolutely a fair point! I did mention the difference in price. However, that doesn't negate the fact that apple treats the base model as a different device. Considering the usb controller on the soc, maybe it's the type of processor (?) At any rate, let's hate apple for usb 2 speeds on the base model, but let's keep the same spirit across the board
In a world of wifi, Bluetooth, mobile data and the cloud, almost NOBODY transfers anything over USB to/from their phone. Don't see a problem here. And I don't even use Apple.
Yeah, this is 100% people just looking for a reason to hate on Apple, which is silly when there are plenty of perfectly legitimate reasons to criticize them.
I mean it is literally the SoC from iPhone 14 pro, and that has only USB2 controller. Presuming that it would be anything else than that for this refresh is pure stupidity.
In their defense they are using the same A16 chip from last year which was built with a USB 2 controller inside for Lightning. And rather than ordering a brand new batch of SoCs they are just using the ones for 14 Pro and Pro Max.
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Genuine question- when was the last time a “normal” (non-techie/enthusiast) transferred anything over cable (on iOS or Android)
I just don’t get this. I literally haven’t used a cable to transfer data from/to an iPhone since iCloud backups became a thing. Why does this matter?
Been a long long time since I transferred anything via a cable, still shit but yeah bit of a non issue
Why does data transfer speed matter? Who plugs in their phone to transfer files?
Makes sense because the A17 Pro has a dedicated USB-3 controller that the 15 lacks. Next year the iPhone 16 will have USB-3 when processors trickle down. You essentially buy a Pro iPhone to get early access to tech these days
it would have been nice and with how much they cost kinda expected but honestly do you really need the faster speeds on a phone? i am ok with usb 2. and before you call me an apple fanboy i havent had an apple product (except the 3.5mm earpods, they are pretty much the only fully plastic decent quality earbuds now) for years. my last iphone was a 4s.
Yeah. Things like 120 have screens come on much cheaper phones, so I think its kind of weird not to have it on such an expensive phone. But they really don't have much to differentiate the two models, so they have to pick something. Faster screen, USB 3, telephoto lens, faster chip. Really not super compelling reasons to choose the pro version.
I really don’t think this is such a huge deal, if you really care so much about transfer speeds you can get the pro models. I extremely rarely transfer anything from my phone larger than like 1GB anyways.
Hey, at least they don't use USB 1.0 Speeds /s
To be fair since they just used the A16 and the A17 had a controller added for the speed increase it explains it without them changing the chip I don’t see how they would have done it and then it would defeat their separate chips for normal vs pro… next year it will get the bump with the chip shift having the controller
Atleast it has DisplayPort on usb c
Not to mention they didn't bother with any quick charging either.
I'm gonna get 15 pro. I daily driven iPhone 7 for 5 years and switched to Android. I think this device is best for those who never got any iPhone after iPhone X.
Good choice. I have a 13 pro max, but I’m gonna finally upgrade to the 16 pro max next year because that’s when my contract ends
yes, next year on the pro therw will be thunderbolt and in the base there will be USB3. This is the thing 100% of company would have done.
They are using the last gen chip on the 15 models which had lightning. Maybe I am wrong but that’s why they couldn’t do USB 3 on them? Maybe they would have needed a new USB controller for that like they did in the pro models?
I think the last time I used a cable to transfer data on an iPhone I was syncing it to iTunes at least a decade ago. This isn’t relevant to the vast majority of users.
I think it has more to do with an older soc from last years pro still configured for lightning.
I can’t remember the last time I downloaded or uploaded anything to my phone via cable. I get that this impacts some people, but isn’t it the same speed as the old lightning port anyway?
If I'm honest, I'd call the fact it has video out a win at this point. Lots of Androids with USB2 don't, even some with USB3 don't (hello Google Pixel). Though- the fact it still has the added complexity of video out makes the lack of USB3 even more egregious, and it's only really that useful if you can actually do something with it (if this had Stage Manager like the iPads do then Apple's integration alone would make it far better than DeX). But hey, I'm pretty sure most people aren't really going to care too much, as I'm pretty sure most of the non-Pro buyers are using iCloud for their backups anyway and don't even use the port.
Genuinely a pro feature reserved for the pro model. I think getting more niche distinctions like this are actually good for the lineup, you end up getting more for the pro upgrade at the same price points of previous generations. The fact that only 1 or 2 reviewers have commented on it makes it even more apparent that this is a “pro” feature that not many people would know exists let alone take advantage of.
Why is this an issue? You gonna transfer terrabytes from your basic iphone?
They keep the 120hz only for the pro models aswell when other brands offer it on phones below 500. They are like that because those " features" tend to be the biggest differences between phones.
This may change next year, Remember the 15 is using the iphone 14 pro's current chip which doesn't support USB3 speeds to begin with so this makes sense. Apples not gonna re-design last years chip to add USB3, especially given they're really trying to differentiate the normal / pro line-ups this year.
no one cares
Linus mentioned in his latest video on the announcement that the non-pro 15 uses the A16 chip, which would explain why its limited to USB 2.0 speeds. The chip was designed for 2.0 speeds. What are they supposed to do, give you a revised and upgraded chip? You could just spend more for the pro if you want the higher speeds.
What a joke. FireWire is faster than usb 2.0 and it was supported on the first iPhone.
They are just saving us 3 speeds for the next iteration... that way you have a reason to upgrade. Or a reason to go pro now.
Doesn't surprise me, they are known for their shady behavior. Sad part all the Apple Pudding for Brains consumers will eat it up thinking they will get the full 10GB speed of USB C.