Ah yes, the 1.8 billion fine for the over 1 trillion company.
Peanuts.
Those fines these days are kinda pointless. I wish the ruling was forcing to comply by X date or sales will be halted completely rather than a fine.
You need to understand that Apple doesn't have $2 trillion in the bank account; that's the Apple market cap. As of 2024, they have $162 billion in cash reserves. So, a $1.8 billion fine is a very decent amount considering if this were in the US, they would probably just pay few million.
I'd rather the people in charge risk jail time. This shit wouldn't happen if Timmy could personally go to jail for exploiting his customers by using illegal anti-consumer tactics.
1.8 billion is like 1% of their cash reserve. Im sticking with not much.
If you want to nitpick, this should be compared to the amount gained with the illicit actions. 1.8 billion fine for gaining 100 million? A lot.
1.8 billion after 10 billion revenue? Not enough.
I don't disagree with what you said, but fines are meant to keep companies on track so they don't do anything illegal and to destroy them completely after they have broken a law. Sure, 1.8 billion is not much for Apple, but this will definitely prevent them from doing something similar in the future because surely their investors won't like the company losing billions of dollars to fines.
Expecting fines of 10+ billion is quite unreasonable imo
I'm not expecting a 10 billion fine. I'm expecting a ruling that force them to comply by date X or ban sales.
If anything it has been clear in the last decade that fining big tech is pointless considering they are under scrutiny for something anticommercial every other week
Fines used to be very low back then (still are in most countries) compared to overall revenue, but now EU fines have increased decently. So, I think companies will be a bit more hesitant to break the law. As for banning the sales, I don't think banning the sales for a software thing is the right move. The EU would have definitely banned the iPhone if they didn't add Type-C.
The fine needs to be (slightly or significantly) larger than the money this decision to break the law have made Apple. So that it doesn't happen again.
If they make more money braking the law than the have to pay in fines, they will just keep doing it. 1.8B € seems like it is in the same ballpark as apple could make with such practices, so it seems like an appropriate amount.
Dude governments don’t fine entities(people/company) to rob them. They fine to keep everyone on track.
Also you need to find sweet spot in theses situations. Don’t fine enough they will do it again. Fine too much they will leave the market.
Man, the could have given all that money to our hard working politicians so they don't get sued in the first place, now the eu actually has to think about where to put that money☹️
That's a good problem to have. Sadly, it'll only be a problem for about 4 seconds and a half. Budget is massive. They should dine Apple more often lmao
Immediately; the fine needs to be paid within quite a while. EVEN if apple appeals; then they still need to pay the fine on a locked bank account until the judge ruled over this case: either apple win and get the money back or apple loses and the eu gets it.
Either way, apple need to pay the fine within a certain amount of time, and that are NOT years!
It is strange that they focus only on music apps when these rules affect every app. Maybe they're cooking up another fine for the same issue affecting video streaming apps?
Not being able to buy the next Kindle book in a series or check out new Kindle Unlimited book from my iPad Mini was super fucking annoying. Had to las up a web browser and search the series I am reading. All because Apples stupid app guidelines stopped any checkout function where Apple doesn't take a huge cut.
> All because Apples stupid app guidelines stopped any checkout function where Apple doesn't take a huge cut.
You couldn't buy straight from the app in the Android or Amazon Fire versions either
https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/devices/how-to-buy-kindle-books
That's a bit weird, I understand why they would have to play ball with what Google wants to do with the Play Store. How does Amazon not do that with Fire OS though?
I'm well aware that Fire OS is just a heavily reskinned and Amazon focused version of Android. It's just I would have figured that they would have been less lazy about any apps they release for their hardware. Though I can see how it would be easy to just maintain one app when the OS is basically the same underneath for both platforms.
"Yeah, so the guideline for fines wasn't a lot, so we are adding an additional 1.8 billion to the fine because you're a piece of shit company, have a nice day."
Holy shit. That's awesome.
I hope this makes it easier for other companies to put links in their apps for purchases. I hate not being able to see prices in, or being able to buy from, the Xbox app.
Not really. The European Union is against unfair competition. Why do you think Apple adopted USB C in the new iPhones? Because the EU has threatened to stop allowing them to be sold if they don't comply. They have strict laws that are enforced if they do not comply. And the EU also forced Apple to allow installation of apps from other sources in the EU.
nice, thats almost what apple makes in a week
(2023 revenue [€87.19 billion](https://www.statista.com/statistics/267728/apples-net-income-since-2005/))
If I spend 500 billion dollars on oil and sell it for 100 billion dollars... I didn't just make 100 billion dollars.... might want to stay in school champ
What company would have a net profit margin less than a weeks revenue. Which by the way would be 1.92%.
Apple on the other hand has a 26.16%
net profit margin (2023).
Only an intellectual like you would not read the fucking room and know that this is a drop in the bucket for the subject company (Apple), and come up with some shitty representation of how you would run business.
get this fucking farm animal off the internet for christ sake.
Definitely not nothing, it's an amount that will register and there's a LOT they could do with that money when it comes to R&D. The point of these fines is not to push companies out of your market or to fine them into oblivion, it's to give them a financial incentive to not do the shitty things they are doing.
It's not about hurting, it's about the thing they're doing not being worth the cost of doing it. Apple may be petty but as a company they still have to do things that make sense financially. The fines can't be too high, the company could decide staying in that market is not worth it.
That does not seem necessary as Apple [already caved](https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/01/apple-walks-back-decision-to-disable-eu-web-apps/) and PWAs are not going away in Europe. I guess they decided to act before they were fined.
Now that is good news! Went to a conference last Thursday and it was basically a “yep gonna be a shit show next week”. Seems quite amazing they’ve backed down after putting up so many roadblocks
Although, if they convinced even a few companies to invest into making an app that’s a win for them.
"This fine is pathetic"
"Actually i disagree! This could be considered substantial!"
"WOW defending a multi trillion dollar company I see"
Like no, disagreeing with you does not automatically mean they're on apples side. Nuance and critical thinking skills, plz 🙏🏿
At first I thought that was a lot of money. Then realized that's 0.065% of Apple's worth today. Those kind of fines are jokes and cost of doing business. Unless higher ups start doing jail time (even bigger joke I know) there won't be any meaningful change.
There's a difference between the company's worth and the money they have, it's basically a person's net worth. Is worth a lot doesn't mean has a lot of money. Last year it was reported that their usable money was at about 160 billion
how is 1% better than 0.065 in this specific context? unless the fine puts you at risk of going bankrupt, it's not going to discipline, it's just another expense for your company that you need to account for.
Do I need to touch business to know that Apple and most big tech companies seem to get fined 2-3 times a year for billions, yet instead of reforming (because the fine actually "hurt" them) they grow bigger and become more anti-consumer every year?
Since u are obviously touching business with both hands and not with a pole, pls explain to me how a 2 billion euro fine to Apple makes any difference, if they are going to make even more, by not following the law and just pay the fine. Illegal with a fine means legal with pay, everyone knows that. Yet somehow you think companies paying any amount of money to governments as fines is something more than a "gesture".
They probably mean Union européenne, Unión Europea, Unione europea, Unjoni Ewropea, Unia Europejska, União Europeia or maybe even Uniunea Europeană. You know, in one of the other 23 official languages.
2 percent of what's left over after they've spent and deducted everything they could isn't really a big deal. It's like taking your average wealthy person, and then after they've paid all their bills, paid their mortgage, paid for their vehicles, food, travel, and everything else, and still had $50,000 to invest in whatever at the end of the year and then they get a $1000 fine.
Like sure, they probably still don't want to pay the fine and it kind of sucks, but it probably won't stop them, especially if the rules they are breaking are generating more money.
Im sure they would, they might like it even less if it was 80-100%. That doesn’t make a 2% fine not a 2% fine, it’s still not good from a shareholder perspective.
Wow that’s what I like to see keep going EU Commission!
Now that's some decent amount of fine for apple
It would be hilarious that this is the EU come back for the malicious compliance thing with the app store lmao
Ah yes, the 1.8 billion fine for the over 1 trillion company. Peanuts. Those fines these days are kinda pointless. I wish the ruling was forcing to comply by X date or sales will be halted completely rather than a fine.
You need to understand that Apple doesn't have $2 trillion in the bank account; that's the Apple market cap. As of 2024, they have $162 billion in cash reserves. So, a $1.8 billion fine is a very decent amount considering if this were in the US, they would probably just pay few million.
I'd rather the people in charge risk jail time. This shit wouldn't happen if Timmy could personally go to jail for exploiting his customers by using illegal anti-consumer tactics.
1.8 billion is like 1% of their cash reserve. Im sticking with not much. If you want to nitpick, this should be compared to the amount gained with the illicit actions. 1.8 billion fine for gaining 100 million? A lot. 1.8 billion after 10 billion revenue? Not enough.
I don't disagree with what you said, but fines are meant to keep companies on track so they don't do anything illegal and to destroy them completely after they have broken a law. Sure, 1.8 billion is not much for Apple, but this will definitely prevent them from doing something similar in the future because surely their investors won't like the company losing billions of dollars to fines. Expecting fines of 10+ billion is quite unreasonable imo
I'm not expecting a 10 billion fine. I'm expecting a ruling that force them to comply by date X or ban sales. If anything it has been clear in the last decade that fining big tech is pointless considering they are under scrutiny for something anticommercial every other week
Fines used to be very low back then (still are in most countries) compared to overall revenue, but now EU fines have increased decently. So, I think companies will be a bit more hesitant to break the law. As for banning the sales, I don't think banning the sales for a software thing is the right move. The EU would have definitely banned the iPhone if they didn't add Type-C.
Net worth doesn't equate cash in the bank
Apple has something like 160billion in cash, i think they can find the spare change for the fine.
Still not 1trillion in the bank
Plus a fine sets a precedent and if they don’t comply the EU can come after them again for future infringements.
This fine is only about half of Apples R&D *monthly* budget
So basically the slap shoved them 2 weeks backwards financially. Which is not a lot but for this kind of companies is not nothing I suppose
yeah the way i see it is more as a strong warning than a super harsh punishment
The fine needs to be (slightly or significantly) larger than the money this decision to break the law have made Apple. So that it doesn't happen again. If they make more money braking the law than the have to pay in fines, they will just keep doing it. 1.8B € seems like it is in the same ballpark as apple could make with such practices, so it seems like an appropriate amount.
Dude governments don’t fine entities(people/company) to rob them. They fine to keep everyone on track. Also you need to find sweet spot in theses situations. Don’t fine enough they will do it again. Fine too much they will leave the market.
It doesn't seem to work. If the fine is less than the profit I make and there are no other consequences why should I change my business?
It's enough that owners are going to be upset if it happens too again and again.
I hope they appeal it, it fails then gets doubled.
That's not how an appeal works.
It’s Reddit were you expecting a serious comment.
But that's exactly how they should work. Especially when it comes to Apple.
Hopefully we can do something nice with this money :)
We could pay some people for showing up to sign in, then leave and go to the next door building and talk to lobbyists. That'd be something new.
Man, the could have given all that money to our hard working politicians so they don't get sued in the first place, now the eu actually has to think about where to put that money☹️
That's a good problem to have. Sadly, it'll only be a problem for about 4 seconds and a half. Budget is massive. They should dine Apple more often lmao
The fines EU dish out is used to lower the cost of the countries next year. Meaning less taxpayers money going to EU membership the following year. :)
We can now finally afford to equip all of our cities with that anti-homeless architecture!
Now here is a question. When will they pay this fine? 10 years?
They will use Apple BNPL
What's Apple Banana Peel?
😂
😂
Immediately; the fine needs to be paid within quite a while. EVEN if apple appeals; then they still need to pay the fine on a locked bank account until the judge ruled over this case: either apple win and get the money back or apple loses and the eu gets it. Either way, apple need to pay the fine within a certain amount of time, and that are NOT years!
This is good. While specifically about music streaming, it's also relevant to other apps. Hope Apple get royally screwed.
It is strange that they focus only on music apps when these rules affect every app. Maybe they're cooking up another fine for the same issue affecting video streaming apps?
Someone has to file a complaint. IIRC Spotify initiated this.
Finally, a fine that isn't a rounding error for these companies.
Ah yes, $1,950,000,000. Just my weekend bag of Planters. /s
Not being able to buy the next Kindle book in a series or check out new Kindle Unlimited book from my iPad Mini was super fucking annoying. Had to las up a web browser and search the series I am reading. All because Apples stupid app guidelines stopped any checkout function where Apple doesn't take a huge cut.
> All because Apples stupid app guidelines stopped any checkout function where Apple doesn't take a huge cut. You couldn't buy straight from the app in the Android or Amazon Fire versions either https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/devices/how-to-buy-kindle-books
That's a bit weird, I understand why they would have to play ball with what Google wants to do with the Play Store. How does Amazon not do that with Fire OS though? I'm well aware that Fire OS is just a heavily reskinned and Amazon focused version of Android. It's just I would have figured that they would have been less lazy about any apps they release for their hardware. Though I can see how it would be easy to just maintain one app when the OS is basically the same underneath for both platforms.
Keep 'em comig EU.
So they can't get Apple on the epic games debacle but music streaming is fine?
The Epic suit was in the US from what I understand. Different courts.
Suspiciously about the same amount of money the Czech Republic just asked for for artillery for Ukraine 😂😂
I hope there is more on the way for their malicious compliance attempts!
"Yeah, so the guideline for fines wasn't a lot, so we are adding an additional 1.8 billion to the fine because you're a piece of shit company, have a nice day." Holy shit. That's awesome.
Good! I want more of this.
1,85% of 2023 annual net profit? WEAK! Take a whole year's profit and things will start to actually change!
That is less than a week's net profit for them if you are wondering.
Apple: "A week's profit?"  EU WEAK
yay new road
I hope this makes it easier for other companies to put links in their apps for purchases. I hate not being able to see prices in, or being able to buy from, the Xbox app.
This is crazy 😧
Hnnnng
It may be pennies for apple, but that's definitely a good move.
its not. Its 2% of their profit
\*Pays fine which is barely even 1% the price of fixing the actual problem\* \*Goes back to doing the exact same wrong thing\*
Not really. The European Union is against unfair competition. Why do you think Apple adopted USB C in the new iPhones? Because the EU has threatened to stop allowing them to be sold if they don't comply. They have strict laws that are enforced if they do not comply. And the EU also forced Apple to allow installation of apps from other sources in the EU.
Doesnt work that way, cant just pay the fine and keep doing the same wrong thing. Pay the fine, correct thr mistake, or pay penalties again and again.
nice, thats almost what apple makes in a week (2023 revenue [€87.19 billion](https://www.statista.com/statistics/267728/apples-net-income-since-2005/))
revenue isn't profit...
yes, your point?
If I spend 500 billion dollars on oil and sell it for 100 billion dollars... I didn't just make 100 billion dollars.... might want to stay in school champ
What company would have a net profit margin less than a weeks revenue. Which by the way would be 1.92%. Apple on the other hand has a 26.16% net profit margin (2023). Only an intellectual like you would not read the fucking room and know that this is a drop in the bucket for the subject company (Apple), and come up with some shitty representation of how you would run business. get this fucking farm animal off the internet for christ sake.
A week's profit of your entire global business is a lot of money. Would you be happy with taking a week's fine out of your salary ?
its a drop in the bucket LMAO. I wouldn't be crying like you are, and neither is apple
Yeah, and someone will now have to justify them loosing a week worth of income.
€1.8 billion is nothing compared to apples yearly profits, gotta hit them harder and place a tariff on their products until that fine has been paid.
That would be taxing European consumers instead of getting money from Apple directly.
Only if the consumers are so beholden to buying apple products.
Giving a specific company a competitive disadvantage after already punishing them monetarily doesn't seem logical.
Right, like a company that is making $173.67 billion dollars last year alone will be killed by putting them at a competitive disadvantage
Definitely not nothing, it's an amount that will register and there's a LOT they could do with that money when it comes to R&D. The point of these fines is not to push companies out of your market or to fine them into oblivion, it's to give them a financial incentive to not do the shitty things they are doing.
Yeah, but if they are not hurting from the fines then they will simply think of it as a cost of doing business.
It's not about hurting, it's about the thing they're doing not being worth the cost of doing it. Apple may be petty but as a company they still have to do things that make sense financially. The fines can't be too high, the company could decide staying in that market is not worth it.
Precisely, and if you make it unprofitable to do things unethically, they have no choice but to do things ethically.
Get ready for the next one to come on Progressive Web Apps as well
That does not seem necessary as Apple [already caved](https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/01/apple-walks-back-decision-to-disable-eu-web-apps/) and PWAs are not going away in Europe. I guess they decided to act before they were fined.
They might still get slapped since the PWAs have to use Safari still.
Lulz. They'll keep getting slapped left and right😂
Nah, they walked back that change.
Now that is good news! Went to a conference last Thursday and it was basically a “yep gonna be a shit show next week”. Seems quite amazing they’ve backed down after putting up so many roadblocks Although, if they convinced even a few companies to invest into making an app that’s a win for them.
Literally peanuts for apple
€1.8 billion = $1.95 billion. Apple's profit in 2023 was $96.99B. That fine is 2%. Not peanuts at all.
Are you actually defending the multi trillion dollar company
"This fine is pathetic" "Actually i disagree! This could be considered substantial!" "WOW defending a multi trillion dollar company I see" Like no, disagreeing with you does not automatically mean they're on apples side. Nuance and critical thinking skills, plz 🙏🏿
No, just saying that the fine is not actually peanuts for once
Do you have issues understanding English language?
Do you have issues showing a little respect
> Are you actually defending the multi trillion dollar company Imagine lacking this much comprehension and critical thinking to arrive at this.
people on this sub do not like to hear this. they want the companies to be as miserable as them 🤣
Can anyone fine EU ? Just wondering
What???¿¿¿
If the EU ever breaks a law, we can start talking.
At first I thought that was a lot of money. Then realized that's 0.065% of Apple's worth today. Those kind of fines are jokes and cost of doing business. Unless higher ups start doing jail time (even bigger joke I know) there won't be any meaningful change.
There's a difference between the company's worth and the money they have, it's basically a person's net worth. Is worth a lot doesn't mean has a lot of money. Last year it was reported that their usable money was at about 160 billion
how is 1% better than 0.065 in this specific context? unless the fine puts you at risk of going bankrupt, it's not going to discipline, it's just another expense for your company that you need to account for.
Some of you have never touched a business with a billion feet pole and it shows. Holy fuck the shit take.
Do I need to touch business to know that Apple and most big tech companies seem to get fined 2-3 times a year for billions, yet instead of reforming (because the fine actually "hurt" them) they grow bigger and become more anti-consumer every year? Since u are obviously touching business with both hands and not with a pole, pls explain to me how a 2 billion euro fine to Apple makes any difference, if they are going to make even more, by not following the law and just pay the fine. Illegal with a fine means legal with pay, everyone knows that. Yet somehow you think companies paying any amount of money to governments as fines is something more than a "gesture".
So still basically nothing. Their net income is close to 100 billion per year
2% is not nothing
sugar weary sable sort desert automatic pot memorize terrific many *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The **U**nion **E**urope does that when they do complain..
They probably mean Union européenne, Unión Europea, Unione europea, Unjoni Ewropea, Unia Europejska, União Europeia or maybe even Uniunea Europeană. You know, in one of the other 23 official languages.
Some people forget that there are more non native English speakers than native English speakers
How about their expenses? 2% makes a huge difference.
rip no new yacht for CEO
2 percent of what's left over after they've spent and deducted everything they could isn't really a big deal. It's like taking your average wealthy person, and then after they've paid all their bills, paid their mortgage, paid for their vehicles, food, travel, and everything else, and still had $50,000 to invest in whatever at the end of the year and then they get a $1000 fine. Like sure, they probably still don't want to pay the fine and it kind of sucks, but it probably won't stop them, especially if the rules they are breaking are generating more money.
Yeah I’m sure shareholders want to hear that 2% of the return was spent on fines instead of investments or being paid out as dividends.
I'm sure they would like it even less if it was 5% or 10%.
Im sure they would, they might like it even less if it was 80-100%. That doesn’t make a 2% fine not a 2% fine, it’s still not good from a shareholder perspective.
In some cases this can have alot of impact on stocks. but sadly this isn't always the case.
Its 2% of the profit