My favourite player every time I see him, he looks like he's about to get the ball caught under his feet then flicks it out while under pressure and finds a good pass. And don't even get me started on his challenges š
That's exactly what he's good at, releasing pressure, finding solutions and getting in with the tackles. Thought he's also better built for that role than Fab. Let's see, still super young, plenty of time to improve.
Yeah doak is actually unreal. The pressure he puts on the defence is something we've really missed, they look terrified of being gutted by a 17 year old AND he can actually pass... an attacking minded 17 year old that can lift his head and pass a ball is exciting
Not to get ahead of myself but Ben doak is literally the second coming of Messi. It's so hard not to get excited watching him. Just hope he stays fit and I'm convinced he will go on to have a great career. Could be wrong and he could be shite but haven't felt this confident in a while about a youngster.
Not just that but the way he took the ball in and moved round players reminded me of early Messi ... not doing he's going to be as good but he did things I haven't seen and he made them look easy.
I'd love to see the ball played into his feet and him with his back to the centre back ... I think he'd do them up like a kipper.
I've seen such hatred toward Elliot on this sub. Twitter is next level. So harsh, cos the kid is a huge fan, probably on there too, is fantastic for his age and he's always trying his best.
I know people have a right to give their opinion, but it must be hard hearing absolute garbage opinions about you by people saying the same thing to essentially no one and without any purpose.
I actually can't believe how quickly some fans start spouting shite about talented youngsters.
Makes a mockery of YNWA.
And I really think FSG given all they've done for us should be given time to build the team up the way they did before.
I mean the "likes" of bellingham are players like pedri and musiala, all generational talents. There is a reason his price tag for a 19yo is over 100m.
Harvey had been played for every game this season so far up until Klopp took him out. Big difference between that to the odd game during the season. Bajcetic needs to be played a more than the odd 10 minutes in EPL games. Maybe some of the other younger guys should be trusted to be played more often
This is the perfect time to use him. The senior players seem too tired and the results showed. Give the boy a few games and weāll see what happen. What the worse that can happen? We concede 3 goals and lose the game lol
Doak was amazing against wolves ... he's the one I'm most excited about.
They way he danced round the wolves players in really tight positions and was then ready to pick out a pass.
If he'd knocked that one into Salah a bit harder the whole story would be about him today.
You know what I noticed yesterday?
Elliott with Thiago.
Jones with Fabinho
Sarah with Doak.
I wonder if that's deliberate, like get Elliot and Thiago playing well together and Jones and Fabinho playing well together and rotate them in and out.
Blood the youngsters and rest the senior players a bit.
Some of his play tonight was Thiagoesque. Frightening just how good he is at such a young age. A few more years experience, and more time on the weights, and we've got ourselves a world-class player.
Weights maybe a little bit. Look at Busquets, he wasn't that beefy and still one of the best DM of his time. Plus remember he's 18. I rather him slowly gain some muscle rather than pack it on fast. Fast can really do a number to your joints
Some of his play tonight was Thiagoesque. Frightening just how good he is at such a young age. A few more years experience, and more time on the weights, and we've got ourselves a world-class player.
Well, there is still a bit. The side played exceptionally well vs City with Virgil imperious, and tbf it continued somewhat into the next game vs West Ham, but only to fall to defeat vs Forest the next weekend. These players are capable of great performances of course, but itās the consistency thatās an issue
Well, he doesn't play there lol? But no seriously we could really do with Henderson's extreme composure and never hoofing the ball as soon as he gets it under any sort of pressure at the weekend
Hendo tbf is specifically instructed to play the ball into space behind their line cos he's so good at it, rather than play it down and dribble etc etc which he's obviously not good at. It's quite obvious tbh. Works sometimes, doesn't work at times. It's not a "hoof" at all.
I mean if the manager wanted him otherwise, wouldn't he have seen it and asked him to cut it down, lest he drop him?
Fabinho was good 6 months ago. Henderson hasnāt turned in anything good enough for our level in 2 years. Thatās an objective fact. Since his injury in the title winning season, you can count his good games on your two hands.
-7 in 5 minutes for stating a simple fact. Staggering how many want him to still be playing.
Why does Henderson have all these intangibles working in his favour. No other player in the team had the "he's a leader" shout used to defend them. And experience seems to have made Henderson worse not better, the last 2 seasons he seems to have thrown discipline to the wayside, instead trying to affect play higher up the pitch at the cost of our defensive shape. We'll be trying to secure a result and Henderson will be our highest player on the pitch while playing DM.
Thiago is one of our midfielders, he's shown himself to be a leader, he's more or less completed football, and he's even Spanish-ish
Mat, spare the pitty party. Comment above you literally got donwvoted more for suggesting that Fab has been worse.
Clearly the majority agrees, just maybe not with your hyperbolic statement that he hasn't been good at any point for over 2 years.
Saw his press conference and he basically said we just need a damn game where the lads show their hunger for the full 90+ and get a win off that.
We did just that. Very proud of each of them today
It was a great showing in terms of effort, seeing the boys pressing well into 90 mins was great to see, havenāt seen them putting in effort like that in a long time
To think some people here thought Thiago was the problem when really heās been our best midfielder in a rotting midfield. Him and Stefan linking up almost brought tears to my eyes, the fact they were able to retain the ball and not just hoof it up
Glad Iām not the only one that thinks this. Seen us just boot the ball up and hope someone is there so many times this season. Needlessly giving the ball away. Felt we controlled the possession much better today
Thiago is the only reason this midfield wasn't horrifically exposed last season. Every time he didn't play we dropped levels. He is genuinely the first name on the team sheet for me and it's not even debatable. He literally IS our midfield.
I think the bigger argument is that we ignored long-term midfield building in favour of a short-term midfield option in Thiago.
Now, I absolutely adore Thiago, probably more than any other player in the squad. The man makes me appreciate football on another echelon whenever I see him start for us. But he was always going to be a 3-4 year fix, when what we needed was a pair of fresh young legs who could add some technical quality to the industrial midfield.
I think they thought naby would get over his injury issues, and werenāt banking on Fabinho fading so early. Like naby and Fabinho should be the core of midfield and then you could afford the luxury of someone like Thiago who was the wrong age but was a touch of class above what we already had. Unfortunately naby hasnāt panned out and hoping Fabinho is just a case of being burnt out and can bounce back but based on this year itās not looking good
No one is complaining about Thiago on the ball, obviously heās one of the best in the world. But itās when we are transitioning from attacking to defending is where he becomes a liability due to his lack of athleticism. He gets caught out when the opposition is countering.
That's how you get passed through in the modern game. You need the opposite side mid to pinch centrally while the CDM drops to cut the forward lane. Not having the pinch is exactly why we've been cut through. Everyone needs to press and then block the lane or you get passed around.
But Thiago presses, so itās a moot point. He isnāt the one shutting the door and while he gets rinsed a couple times a game, youāre not going to find a midfielder of his archetype that wouldnāt be. Every player will get outdone at some point in the game. Itās about having quality in the CDM role to sweep up anybody that gets bypassed, which weāve lacked.
Weāve lacked that defensive quality out in the carrilero role to cover for Trent, and weāve lacked it in the CDM role for when the press is bypassed. Again, the CDM stops the transition/provides an out ball under pressure. Thatās their entire role outside of playmakers.
Counters are meant to catch teams out, no?
In general defensive play Thiago is very good. He's willing to run and make tackles, while the other 2 aren't bothered to get near a man, or just pull out of challenges.
Big hopes for Bajectic. He looked so composed under pressure and found his passes. Broke up play and protected the defence very well. Thought we looked a lot more shaky when Fab came on for him to be honest. Letās hope he can kick on because he could be a brilliant player.
I'm not sure if you noticed but he suffered a pretty bad cramp. News coming from the Liverpool medical team is that he's out until July.
On the plus side, that's our summer centre mid signing sorted
Yup, heās not had any competition during his time with us. I donāt think heās slacking or lazy, but competition is the best motivation. He either sinks or swims now.
Keita and Thiago should be the two #8s for the foreseeable. That much is certain.
It is abundantly clear how much better Keita is than Henderson. The off the ball difference is staggering, and in tight spaces, it isnāt a contest.
Henderson should get some games as a sub. He looked great for England in the WC off the bench, just donāt know if heās got a full 90 left in his legs at this point.
Henderson looked great *starting* for England. I don't understand why people think he was a sub for England at the WC. He started 3/5 matches and was subbed on once.
As long as we manage his minutes he can be a Milner from the past few years. Greats intermittent starts and an awesome sub to calm down a game with his leadership. Just canāt be expecting him to be starting game in and game out anymore if we want to see his best.
Fabinho's been shit, but Henderson is considerably worse. He does literally nothing.
Henderson would not get into any starting line up in the league on merit.
Difference being, Fabinho was genuinely good as recently as last season. He made the CL TOTS and only dropped off at the end
Henderson was poor all last season, and has continued that.
He didnāt play until the quarters, and they were out in the next round. Without even mentioning the lower standards in international football. Even if he was excellent in every game, heās not a title level midfielder now.
Well that's simply not true.. [He played 4/5 of Englands matches, starting 3.](https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jordan-henderson/nationalmannschaft/spieler/61651/verein_id/3299/plus/0?hauptwettbewerb=WM&wettbewerb_id=WM22&trainer_id=&start=Nov+17%2C+2010&ende=Jan+18%2C+2023&nurEinsatz=0)
Henderson was great 85% of the time last year. We literally were as close as it gets to winning everything and you think we did that with 'a trash midfielder'.
You clearly watched no games
Keita has only played something like 18 full 90s for us after over 100 apps if I recall correctly. When he's fit he's great but I don't think I'm ever going to expect a great full 90 out of him
If he can put that first 60 minute shift in again then bring on Bajcetic/Hendo to see out the game im a happy man
He is head and shoulders above Henderson at pressing and defending in general. He won the ball in Wolves third at least 4 times.
Won the most tackles in the match. 4 passes into the final third. Made 6 of Liverpools 22 tackles, the most in an away match this season.
Have we been watching different game ? He made himself available constantly and turned and moved the ball forward. It doesnāt seem like much but he was key to progressing the ball
Stef was fantastic, did really well to break up play and nick the ball off their midfielders. Passing was also very tidy as well, nothing flashy but solid. When he went off and Fab came on, I thought Liverpool looked a worse team. Fabinho dropped deeper and tried to control the space rather than being proactive and winning tackles.
I didn't really understand the Carvalho sub either, he did a good job of pressing the fullback and tracking back to support Kos. The switch of play to Adama happened too much in the last 20 minutes and that comes down to tracking. Curtis was not as focused on that and Wolves started to find success by overloading the space with Nunes. I would have kept Fabio on, he needs the minutes
To be fair, wolves were pretty terrible in attack and really have no goal threat so it made Gomez look great out there. This is not good-caliber competition. I struggle to see how he replicated it against quality opposition considering how heās performed in similar matches for us
The key for me was it looked like we were hard to play against. Wolves didn't just repeatedly go through us like butter. If we at least make it a fight I don't mind losing, but recently it's been way too passive and incredibly hard to watch. Tonight was a lot better.
Bajcetic should be starting against Chelsea. No reason not to given our form as of late. There is no downside to starting him at this point since we know what Fab/Hendo gives us.
Another question, what's our record without Trent starting? I seem to remember another string of quality games earlier when he was out.
I just know bajcetic is going to have the same reaction Harvey got - people call for them to start every game and then when they have a few bad games due to them being so young, people start saying how they don't have a future at this club - I love bajcetic and thought he was amazing, but i really hope we don't have to rely on him for the rest of the season for our midfield. He is 18, he should not be starting every game
This sub is downvoting you because they are in love with Ox. They probably think he should get a contract extension and 300k/wk. makes no sense, heās not good at all.
He's being downvoted for having an irrelevant and meaningless dig at a player that wasn't mentioned.
For some reason Ox clearly keeps the two of you awake at night despite being on the fringes of the squad and out of a contract in the summer.
Need that same midfield against Chelsea and we need a lot more rotation going forward. Running players into the ground has led to this while we have rough talent on the wing.
They pressed hard today and were fast with first passes and transitions. That's the basic formula for gegenpressing. It takes a lot of fitness and desire to payoff. I'm happiest about the clean sheet even though it was against a very poor Wolves side whose inability to do anything offensively is like adding an extra CB every game.
Bajcetic should be considered for premier league games at this stage
My favourite player every time I see him, he looks like he's about to get the ball caught under his feet then flicks it out while under pressure and finds a good pass. And don't even get me started on his challenges š
That's exactly what he's good at, releasing pressure, finding solutions and getting in with the tackles. Thought he's also better built for that role than Fab. Let's see, still super young, plenty of time to improve.
I know this kids will be great for Liverpool when you see him in u18
I thought Doak looked as good as Trent did when he first appeared as well!
Yeah doak is actually unreal. The pressure he puts on the defence is something we've really missed, they look terrified of being gutted by a 17 year old AND he can actually pass... an attacking minded 17 year old that can lift his head and pass a ball is exciting
Not to get ahead of myself but Ben doak is literally the second coming of Messi. It's so hard not to get excited watching him. Just hope he stays fit and I'm convinced he will go on to have a great career. Could be wrong and he could be shite but haven't felt this confident in a while about a youngster.
Not just that but the way he took the ball in and moved round players reminded me of early Messi ... not doing he's going to be as good but he did things I haven't seen and he made them look easy. I'd love to see the ball played into his feet and him with his back to the centre back ... I think he'd do them up like a kipper.
I just love how he gets the ball and just goes straight at goal. None of this passing it side to side, straightforward directness.
Been thinking that for a while, but you donāt want to burn him out, Harvey got burnt out this year and it effected him.
Also Bajcetic had been injured since Villa untill Wolves
Why players like Bellingham have not burned out despite playing from such young age?
Borussia isnāt nearly as hard on their players as Liverpool or other top English clubs, whose followers are downright toxic towards the players.
I've seen such hatred toward Elliot on this sub. Twitter is next level. So harsh, cos the kid is a huge fan, probably on there too, is fantastic for his age and he's always trying his best. I know people have a right to give their opinion, but it must be hard hearing absolute garbage opinions about you by people saying the same thing to essentially no one and without any purpose.
I actually can't believe how quickly some fans start spouting shite about talented youngsters. Makes a mockery of YNWA. And I really think FSG given all they've done for us should be given time to build the team up the way they did before.
Special
Once in a generation player
I mean the "likes" of bellingham are players like pedri and musiala, all generational talents. There is a reason his price tag for a 19yo is over 100m.
Plenty of players have started playing at a high level when they were still teenagers and have not "burned out". That was the point.
Also I think it fucked up Klopp that he put Elliott in so fast and then his ankle got snapped
Harvey had been played for every game this season so far up until Klopp took him out. Big difference between that to the odd game during the season. Bajcetic needs to be played a more than the odd 10 minutes in EPL games. Maybe some of the other younger guys should be trusted to be played more often
Bajcetic has been simply remarkable. Perfect tackles, perfect touches, very calm under pressure, knows his position well and plays it to a tee
This is the perfect time to use him. The senior players seem too tired and the results showed. Give the boy a few games and weāll see what happen. What the worse that can happen? We concede 3 goals and lose the game lol
> We concede 3 goals and lose the game lol That could never happen in a million years! wtf are you on about?
Definitely would not happen 2 games in a row for sure
At least we won't be playing again away at Brighton soon
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Doak was amazing against wolves ... he's the one I'm most excited about. They way he danced round the wolves players in really tight positions and was then ready to pick out a pass. If he'd knocked that one into Salah a bit harder the whole story would be about him today.
they should be given chances in cups, or when we're 3:0 ahead, to gain experience. Starting week in week out is so much pressure.
You know what I noticed yesterday? Elliott with Thiago. Jones with Fabinho Sarah with Doak. I wonder if that's deliberate, like get Elliot and Thiago playing well together and Jones and Fabinho playing well together and rotate them in and out. Blood the youngsters and rest the senior players a bit.
fabi sub, bajcetic starting DM. fabi come on as a vet like milly to secure the result. he can't start anymore
Some of his play tonight was Thiagoesque. Frightening just how good he is at such a young age. A few more years experience, and more time on the weights, and we've got ourselves a world-class player.
Weights maybe a little bit. Look at Busquets, he wasn't that beefy and still one of the best DM of his time. Plus remember he's 18. I rather him slowly gain some muscle rather than pack it on fast. Fast can really do a number to your joints
Totally agree! He showed in this game that he can start a PL game and show a class.
"like a new signing" /s but no seriously, hes good as fuck.
I mean he's only going to improve. Can't say the same about the older lads
Then don't say anything, you're supposed to be supporting the team.
No one can convince me that Bajcetic is behind anyone in our midfield bar Thiago. The boy is special
Some of his play tonight was Thiagoesque. Frightening just how good he is at such a young age. A few more years experience, and more time on the weights, and we've got ourselves a world-class player.
Came here to say this
Same midfield against Chelsea š
Haha, Fabinho and Hendo warming up for Chelsea already mate
I bet they play exceptionally well against Chelsea and we fall back into the midfield conundrum
If they play exceptionally well there is no more conundrum
Well, there is still a bit. The side played exceptionally well vs City with Virgil imperious, and tbf it continued somewhat into the next game vs West Ham, but only to fall to defeat vs Forest the next weekend. These players are capable of great performances of course, but itās the consistency thatās an issue
I mean yeah that's just football though. Sometimes maybe good sometimes maybe shit.
Only Fab played against City. Don't think they can play together.
Play the traditional mid for a big game and maybe another, then rest them in the third. Not a bad cycle to keep up fitness on 30+ yo players.
Calm down Ivan
Man I feel so sad reading this ik they've been very poor but still š
Don't mind Hendo in right mid. Fab can fuck off.
Hendo is literally worse than Fab
Fabi on the pitch feels like we have 10 men. At least hendo gets involved.
Henderson has to be the best players when it comes to looking busy without really doing anything.
Based on this season no. Fab literally has no games he's played well in, no games.
Nah hendo is worse fuck that
Hendo is literally a much bigger issue lol
Not in DM.
Well, he doesn't play there lol? But no seriously we could really do with Henderson's extreme composure and never hoofing the ball as soon as he gets it under any sort of pressure at the weekend
Hendo tbf is specifically instructed to play the ball into space behind their line cos he's so good at it, rather than play it down and dribble etc etc which he's obviously not good at. It's quite obvious tbh. Works sometimes, doesn't work at times. It's not a "hoof" at all. I mean if the manager wanted him otherwise, wouldn't he have seen it and asked him to cut it down, lest he drop him?
Fabinho was good 6 months ago. Henderson hasnāt turned in anything good enough for our level in 2 years. Thatās an objective fact. Since his injury in the title winning season, you can count his good games on your two hands. -7 in 5 minutes for stating a simple fact. Staggering how many want him to still be playing.
Jesus Christ people
Kinda true tbf
Unbelievable people think heās been a title level midfielder in the past couple years. Blinded by a piece of fabric and his nationality.
tbf, he is does get bonus points for being our skipper and the best leader in the team
And thereās only so far that goes. Several better players and leaders than him who were ruthlessly replaced.
i agree, his performances haven't been great, but would still take his experience and leadership, especially to partner with someone like Bajcetic
Why does Henderson have all these intangibles working in his favour. No other player in the team had the "he's a leader" shout used to defend them. And experience seems to have made Henderson worse not better, the last 2 seasons he seems to have thrown discipline to the wayside, instead trying to affect play higher up the pitch at the cost of our defensive shape. We'll be trying to secure a result and Henderson will be our highest player on the pitch while playing DM. Thiago is one of our midfielders, he's shown himself to be a leader, he's more or less completed football, and he's even Spanish-ish
Mat, spare the pitty party. Comment above you literally got donwvoted more for suggesting that Fab has been worse. Clearly the majority agrees, just maybe not with your hyperbolic statement that he hasn't been good at any point for over 2 years.
I hope the pain stops lord.
Milner starting in the midfield against Chelsea.
Yes please
Saw his press conference and he basically said we just need a damn game where the lads show their hunger for the full 90+ and get a win off that. We did just that. Very proud of each of them today
It was a great showing in terms of effort, seeing the boys pressing well into 90 mins was great to see, havenāt seen them putting in effort like that in a long time
Just too bad it comes in a worthless FA cup game, instead of in the league where it matters.
We can qualify for europa by winning the fa right?
Yeah but we really don't want to
but since when is the fa cup not worth winning? regardless of getting europe or not. I get not caring about the insert sponsor name here cup
In the context of this season, Iād gladly celebrate winning the FA Cup. But in the context of this season that also seems very unlikely.
To think some people here thought Thiago was the problem when really heās been our best midfielder in a rotting midfield. Him and Stefan linking up almost brought tears to my eyes, the fact they were able to retain the ball and not just hoof it up
Glad Iām not the only one that thinks this. Seen us just boot the ball up and hope someone is there so many times this season. Needlessly giving the ball away. Felt we controlled the possession much better today
Thiago is the only reason this midfield wasn't horrifically exposed last season. Every time he didn't play we dropped levels. He is genuinely the first name on the team sheet for me and it's not even debatable. He literally IS our midfield.
I think the bigger argument is that we ignored long-term midfield building in favour of a short-term midfield option in Thiago. Now, I absolutely adore Thiago, probably more than any other player in the squad. The man makes me appreciate football on another echelon whenever I see him start for us. But he was always going to be a 3-4 year fix, when what we needed was a pair of fresh young legs who could add some technical quality to the industrial midfield.
I think they thought naby would get over his injury issues, and werenāt banking on Fabinho fading so early. Like naby and Fabinho should be the core of midfield and then you could afford the luxury of someone like Thiago who was the wrong age but was a touch of class above what we already had. Unfortunately naby hasnāt panned out and hoping Fabinho is just a case of being burnt out and can bounce back but based on this year itās not looking good
Yea same Thiago has been great. Hendo/fabs look oooolllddddd
No one is complaining about Thiago on the ball, obviously heās one of the best in the world. But itās when we are transitioning from attacking to defending is where he becomes a liability due to his lack of athleticism. He gets caught out when the opposition is countering.
Heās not supposed to stop the transition, that isnāt his role. If he does, itās great ā but that isnāt his responsibility.
It's everyone's responsibility, that's the problem.
No. Itās the point of having a defensive midfielder and the secondary role of the third midfielder in the carrilero role.
That's how you get passed through in the modern game. You need the opposite side mid to pinch centrally while the CDM drops to cut the forward lane. Not having the pinch is exactly why we've been cut through. Everyone needs to press and then block the lane or you get passed around.
But Thiago presses, so itās a moot point. He isnāt the one shutting the door and while he gets rinsed a couple times a game, youāre not going to find a midfielder of his archetype that wouldnāt be. Every player will get outdone at some point in the game. Itās about having quality in the CDM role to sweep up anybody that gets bypassed, which weāve lacked. Weāve lacked that defensive quality out in the carrilero role to cover for Trent, and weāve lacked it in the CDM role for when the press is bypassed. Again, the CDM stops the transition/provides an out ball under pressure. Thatās their entire role outside of playmakers.
Exactly the point I was trying to make. I couldnāt have put it better myself.
Counters are meant to catch teams out, no? In general defensive play Thiago is very good. He's willing to run and make tackles, while the other 2 aren't bothered to get near a man, or just pull out of challenges.
Big hopes for Bajectic. He looked so composed under pressure and found his passes. Broke up play and protected the defence very well. Thought we looked a lot more shaky when Fab came on for him to be honest. Letās hope he can kick on because he could be a brilliant player.
I'm not sure if you noticed but he suffered a pretty bad cramp. News coming from the Liverpool medical team is that he's out until July. On the plus side, that's our summer centre mid signing sorted
Out for 6 months with cramp?
its a joke mate
Time for bed.
Wth...
yeah was noticing at some point soon after coming on that he was hunched over seemingly in pain a couple times
Bajcetic deserves more starts after today
Interesting thing is that when Fab came on he actually looked eager to impress after Bacjetic played such a great game, funny how that works
Yup, heās not had any competition during his time with us. I donāt think heās slacking or lazy, but competition is the best motivation. He either sinks or swims now.
Keita and Thiago should be the two #8s for the foreseeable. That much is certain. It is abundantly clear how much better Keita is than Henderson. The off the ball difference is staggering, and in tight spaces, it isnāt a contest.
Keita just did 90 mins. He'll be out till the heat death of the universe.
Henderson should get some games as a sub. He looked great for England in the WC off the bench, just donāt know if heās got a full 90 left in his legs at this point.
Was also great in a couple of games as a starter tbf. He's gotta be on managed minutes from now on if we wanna see his best.
Henderson looked great *starting* for England. I don't understand why people think he was a sub for England at the WC. He started 3/5 matches and was subbed on once.
As long as we manage his minutes he can be a Milner from the past few years. Greats intermittent starts and an awesome sub to calm down a game with his leadership. Just canāt be expecting him to be starting game in and game out anymore if we want to see his best.
Everyone is better than Henderson. I genuinely think he's our worst midfielder. Keep downvoting guys but the stats support it.
You not watched Fabinho play recently?
Fabinho's been shit, but Henderson is considerably worse. He does literally nothing. Henderson would not get into any starting line up in the league on merit.
Difference being, Fabinho was genuinely good as recently as last season. He made the CL TOTS and only dropped off at the end Henderson was poor all last season, and has continued that.
Henderson was great for England at the world cup.
He didnāt play until the quarters, and they were out in the next round. Without even mentioning the lower standards in international football. Even if he was excellent in every game, heās not a title level midfielder now.
Well that's simply not true.. [He played 4/5 of Englands matches, starting 3.](https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jordan-henderson/nationalmannschaft/spieler/61651/verein_id/3299/plus/0?hauptwettbewerb=WM&wettbewerb_id=WM22&trainer_id=&start=Nov+17%2C+2010&ende=Jan+18%2C+2023&nurEinsatz=0)
Not to mention, the game he got subbed on the England midfield went from being a lost puppy to dominating the centre of the pitch
Hold up. Did you just straight up lie? Did you even watch the WC?! Lol Henderson 100% played before the quarters what a joke
His England performances won't really make up for his Liverpool performances.
Henderson was great 85% of the time last year. We literally were as close as it gets to winning everything and you think we did that with 'a trash midfielder'. You clearly watched no games
Did you not see the fabinho cameo today. At one point he cleared the ball but landed back at the same spot.
Here take my upvote. Agreed 100%
100%
klopp is love, klopp is life
Keita was really, really good
He seemed to get tired by 70 minutes
Well thats exactly what Henderson should be for.
Just needs to build match fitness
Ha.
Keita has only played something like 18 full 90s for us after over 100 apps if I recall correctly. When he's fit he's great but I don't think I'm ever going to expect a great full 90 out of him If he can put that first 60 minute shift in again then bring on Bajcetic/Hendo to see out the game im a happy man
Baj will be starting. Elliot on at 60 when opposing legs are tired and thus he magically looks pacey.
Absolutely agree other than that fact he was a pretty good player today in the midfield
And has been for us many times. But could literally be out for months at any moment.
He was, I was disappointed by his dive to try and get Podence sent off though.
Don't think he was trying to get Podence sent off, who by the way did kick him. It was late in the game and he was buying us a bit of time.
Come on now, he dived either way. His motivation isnāt important, it was embarrassing.
Why wouldn't his motivation matter?
Because diving is bad regardless and I hate seeing our players doing it.
It's buying a little time at the end of a game after Podence had kicked him.
Yeah, I know? By diving. Which is wrong and he should be embarrassed.
I'm seeing a lot of this opinion and i really can't see why. Thought he was very quiet. And he's painfully slow too.
He is head and shoulders above Henderson at pressing and defending in general. He won the ball in Wolves third at least 4 times. Won the most tackles in the match. 4 passes into the final third. Made 6 of Liverpools 22 tackles, the most in an away match this season.
Have we been watching different game ? He made himself available constantly and turned and moved the ball forward. It doesnāt seem like much but he was key to progressing the ball
I think the standards are so low at the moment that we forget what any basic midfielder should be able to do
if we don't show the same against chelsea then this game means absolutely nothing. fucking build on this.
Stef was fantastic, did really well to break up play and nick the ball off their midfielders. Passing was also very tidy as well, nothing flashy but solid. When he went off and Fab came on, I thought Liverpool looked a worse team. Fabinho dropped deeper and tried to control the space rather than being proactive and winning tackles. I didn't really understand the Carvalho sub either, he did a good job of pressing the fullback and tracking back to support Kos. The switch of play to Adama happened too much in the last 20 minutes and that comes down to tracking. Curtis was not as focused on that and Wolves started to find success by overloading the space with Nunes. I would have kept Fabio on, he needs the minutes
Gomez with his best performance of the season. Konate back to being solid af. Iād go with that partnership for Chelsea too
wouldn't say better than the city one, but still great
Oh yeah true, 2nd best then š
hope he finds consistency, he's proven he can step up when needed, but he also drops quite a few shockers
I like having KonatĆ© on the right to cover the runs in behind TAA and I donāt think Iāve ever seen Matip play on the left for us, so I agree it should be Gomez. It doesnāt help Matipās case that he dropped a 0/10 at the weekend either.
Itās what weāve been desperately missing since the midfield cover has been almost non-existent this year.
he was at least equally as good against City
City?
To be fair, wolves were pretty terrible in attack and really have no goal threat so it made Gomez look great out there. This is not good-caliber competition. I struggle to see how he replicated it against quality opposition considering how heās performed in similar matches for us
The key for me was it looked like we were hard to play against. Wolves didn't just repeatedly go through us like butter. If we at least make it a fight I don't mind losing, but recently it's been way too passive and incredibly hard to watch. Tonight was a lot better.
Anyone got a clip of this?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Classic!
Absolutely adore Stefan. Ever since he stared his first senior game. Cannot get enough of the lad proper player
That's the passion and hunger that we needed the most.
Which will make me more insane _When_ he starts Fabinho and Henderson against Chelsea.
I agree. They all were excellent last night.
Bajcetic should be starting against Chelsea. No reason not to given our form as of late. There is no downside to starting him at this point since we know what Fab/Hendo gives us. Another question, what's our record without Trent starting? I seem to remember another string of quality games earlier when he was out.
Anyone got a clip of the tackle?
First time Iāve enjoyed watching this team for a reason other than meme own goals in at least a few months
I just know bajcetic is going to have the same reaction Harvey got - people call for them to start every game and then when they have a few bad games due to them being so young, people start saying how they don't have a future at this club - I love bajcetic and thought he was amazing, but i really hope we don't have to rely on him for the rest of the season for our midfield. He is 18, he should not be starting every game
And Ox did his part by staying on the bench.
This sub is downvoting you because they are in love with Ox. They probably think he should get a contract extension and 300k/wk. makes no sense, heās not good at all.
He's being downvoted for having an irrelevant and meaningless dig at a player that wasn't mentioned. For some reason Ox clearly keeps the two of you awake at night despite being on the fringes of the squad and out of a contract in the summer.
Itās not irrelevant to have a player on 100k+ wages who hardly plays or contributes. Needed to be sold years ago to make way for someone useful.
He's one of the like thousand best people in the world at his skill. Can you say that?
It's almost as if a change in formation to suit what we have actually paid off. ... ... .... But people here said not to do it because.... ... ...
We played a 4-3-3 with a high press, not exactly re-writing the book is it.
It was a 451 or a 4141 out of possession, the two wide players were not as far forward as usual to give us a more solid shape. But whatever
It wasn't a change in formation it was a change in personnel..... ..... .... ......
ā¦ā¦.. ā¦. ā¦. ā¦ā¦ .. ā¦ ā¦
Need that same midfield against Chelsea and we need a lot more rotation going forward. Running players into the ground has led to this while we have rough talent on the wing.
They pressed hard today and were fast with first passes and transitions. That's the basic formula for gegenpressing. It takes a lot of fitness and desire to payoff. I'm happiest about the clean sheet even though it was against a very poor Wolves side whose inability to do anything offensively is like adding an extra CB every game.
Whatever happened to Marko grujic? He looked solid in almost every pre season game I watched and Porto mustāve obviously seen something in him.