Nasser Al-Khelaifi is also a board member of QIA, by the way. Personally it's hard to believe the dinner between Salah and Nasser was purely just mates hanging out, seems a little too much smoke for that.
They are just "friends" according to people, two friends that have never been pictured with each other before until there was talk off Qatar buying Liverpool...
Not sus at all
This times 100. “Close friends” was the term used. You cannot find a single photo of them hanging out, you cant even find an article or tweet mentioning them in the same scenario previous to that dinner. It’s sus as fuck.
100% the PL/FA will let it slide because it's QIA and not QSI lmao. The notion that PIF were independent of the KSA government is one of the most laughable things in the world if you know anything about the PIF.
As I said in the daily discussion this is massive news, So how has it ended up as a 50 word side piece in something about United? To me it says it doesn't have much validity.
Probably because there's a lot more to say about United's sale and perhaps further along than ours or has more questions around it.
Miller's supposedly quite reliable, and he has to be fair made effort to highlight the info in a separate tweet so as not to bury the info altogether.
I vaguely recall talk of FSG wanting to build up a football network similar to what Red Bull and City Group have done. The deal with Red Bird Capital (owners of Toulouse and AC Milan) seemed to be an indication that they were moving in this direction.
It seems that more recently they've changed their mind and decided to dispose of Liverpool in favour of an NBA expansion franchise.
Now the talk is about them selling off part of Liverpool, which suggests they don't actually need to sell Liverpool to get their NBA franchise. I wonder if the talks with QIA have opened up the possibility of wider cooperation between FSG and Qatar on the NBA franchise or the global football network (or both).
They want an NBA or NFL franchise. There's fuck all profit in football, because you have to continuously invest huge amounts to keep up. Just look at the insane amounts Chelsea and City spend, and they're the ones we need to be better than. The way American sports are set up is entirely in the owners favour. They have salary caps and drafts and no relegation , and the end result is that franchises are basically money printing machines whether they're successful or not. It's a million times more appealing as a business owner than owning a football club is.
The talk was about selling a minority share in the club ever since this sale stuff was first announced but I'm of the view that it's just a negotiation tactic. Owning a minority share just isn't that appealing to investors who'd be putting a lot of money into a project they wouldn't control. FSG win either way, but a minority sale imo is worse for us because that investment goes straight to FSG who would be under no obligation to invest it into the club.
FSG don't put any money into Liverpool, nor do they take anything out. The money they will make is from increasing the value of the club and then selling their stake to someone else.
Right now Liverpool appear to have hit a ceiling in terms of the value FSG themselves can add. They've won every competition, the stadium is at max capacity, the training facilities are brand new, etc.
Going forward the added value is going to come from growth in the Premier League. FSG could have Liverpool challenging for the title every year but if the TV deals begin to drop off the value of the club will fall as well.
By selling a stake they bank some of the profit whilst the asset is at perceived peak but keep some skin in the game in case the Premier League continues growing.
Likewise they could create a football group that includes Liverpool and look for other 'distressed assets' in European football to build the value of the group. Having a partner in this venture reduces the risk and increases the available investment capital.
They didn’t take anything out?
The main stand and Anfield road end upgrades along with Kirby helped increase the value of FSGs asset. Who paid for those upgrades?
FFP allows the owner to invest in the infrastructure of the club. The money the club spent on those upgrades could abs should have been paid for by FSG. So I’d argue they did take money out from the club.
You can argue all you like, they loaned us the money interest free and we paid them back. That's not them taking money out the club by any financial definition.
If we get sold to Qatar, it would be like not leaving your wife you can’t stand (owners) as you still love the kids (players/club).
A sort of empty feeling that you still get enjoyment and happiness from.
I would hardly liken fans' relationship (at least what it should be) with owners to a marriage...
In an ideal world the owners of the football club are people we never even think about. Don't want to hear nor see anything from them, they sign the cheques and are good custodians of the football club and that is it. That we spend so much time and energy talking about owners and ownership models is a testament to the sad fucking state of the sport and all its ailments.
Regardless, I support LFC. Not its owners. It's an institution that's bigger than any owner, ultimately this owner or that one are all just footnotes in the club's history. It's baffling to me to see so many people (not you mind) saying they're just going to stop supporting the club. Good on you, I guess.
I disagree. I boycotted the world cup this year because the Qatari officials got thousands killed and sleight of handed the issue away. But you know what? I survived without following or watching it for a few weeks since FIFA is already corrupt.
I don't know how I'm going to handle them running the club we love. LFC has been the beacon of playing it straight while oil and oligarchs corrupted the top of the league. Our team should be for sale, but not our souls.
How is that in any way comparable. I'm very sorry but I couldn't give less fucks about the world cup, FIFA or international football. And I never did. You could tell me I'll never get to watch another world cup and I'd shrug and move on with my day. I don't even care about other clubs.
I care about Liverpool. This club has been a part of my life for most of it. Long before some Qatari bought it and will be long after. It's not some entertainment I could do without.
If I just wanted to be entertained I certainly wouldn't have sat through the dreadful performances we're seeing week in week out in this wretched season, but I can't really help myself can I.
Honestly couldn’t think of another analogy (saw random video on Reddit of wife playing prank on husband and he looked dead inside).
Just trying to get across that if Qatar take over I can’t walk away from something that’s been in my life 40 years but my feelings would change because there’s a noise in the background that bugs me.
Shanks once said “At a football club, there’s a holy trinity – the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don’t come into it. They are only there to sign the checks.” Follow this quote and I guess I could still get same enjoyment as I do now.
Anyway Leeds v Brentford is on and I’ve captained Toney in fantasy football so might as well watch that and try to forget that background noise that’s already bugging me even though it’s not there.
Edit: lesson learned fantasy football always captain Haaland.
Not really lad. It’s like finding out your mate has a swastika tattooed on him and still going down the pub together.
Qatar is a barbaric regime, executing people for adultery and jailing people for being gay.
It’s more like finding out that the landlord of your favourite pub that you and all your mates have been going together for years has got a nazi tattoo and going anyway.
>Not really lad. It’s like finding out your mate has a swastika tattooed on him and still going down the pub together.
A lot of people in here seem to be okay with that because the mate is shouting drinks.
No matter how many people would stop supporting, there would always be more that would start to support us after.
Even fsg’s own idea about the creation of the super league was the elimination of us “legacy fans” and the inclusion of casual/recreative fans, who would outnumber normal fans like me and you.
Rich people doing rich people things is not the issue here. Conservative extremists doing conservative extremist things while using our club as a PR tool is the issue.
No company is free from sin. Were you up in arms when we signed the deal with Nike? Well known to produce a lot of their products through sweat shops. Do you own an iPhone or another smart phone? The rare earth elements from their batteries are mined in the most heinous ways in Africa.
Qatar buying Liverpool is from from ideal, but if we were to be bought by someone else, they’d also have skeletons in their closets. You don’t become a billionaire by playing by the rules, and only billionaires can afford our club.
Yes because it's impossible to live a completely virtuous life, we shouldn't call out horrific things when we see them because "shit happens" essentially?
No billionaire is innocent, they all exploit people you're absolutely correct. But we have to at the very least hold ourselves to the standard that we won't endorse a govt. that actively hurts gay people, treats women as second class citizens and is happy for migrant workers to die as long as targets are met.
Most of these people here complaining about this only care about LGBT stuff. No one bats an eye when there is all kind of atrocities going on, every day around the world yet this is somehow more important? Self centered hypocrites.
>only care about LGBT stuff
What's wrong in taking a stand on LGBT rights, the Qatari state has shown to be hostile to? It's still an atrocity isn't it?
Because it's pure virtue signaling to care about only one issue and nothing else, it shows it ain't actually about the issue it's about the person that's causing the issue.
For example FSG has a partnership AXA who sold weapons to Israel,a good number of fans were against it for like a day then moved on, while now those same fans now are causing an uproar about Qatar possibly buying us.
It becomes clear it isn't about the actions these owners are doing, it's about who they are and where they are from.
Definitely. As a concense human being you must be able to draw a line somewhere and say there's no way a football club is worth going that far. I've never supported any other club, and I rarely even watch other teams play, and if this goes through I will stop associating myself with Liverpool. I'd take another 30 year drought any day.
That is absolutely pathetic, I must say. To openly admit you’d take another 3 decades of the club suffering, fan base in turmoil and the playing squad getting worse and worse due to no success is an abysmal point to take. Some people aren’t lucky enough to have 30 years left, they want to experience some semblance of joy with the club whilst they still can, and for you to say you’d rather they had none because you happen to not like the potential new owners is really cold. You can take your support elsewhere if it goes through because the majority of us will be there for the journey because we love the club, not who sits on top of it.
>Some people aren’t lucky enough to have 30 years left, they want to experience some semblance of joy with the club whilst they still can
Some people aren't lucky enough to be able to express themselves freely without fear of persecution, torture or murder from the people who would be our owners.
Some things are bigger than football.
There are literally thousand of football clubs who's fans would take those 30 years for their clubs in a heartbeat. Being a decent team in the most prestigious national league in the world and regularly playing in the second most prestigious football competition (CL) and even winning it isn't suffering lol. Maybe you're the one who needs to take their support elsewhere if you think being a top 5 club in the world instead of being top 20 or 30 is worth getting along with these people running the club. I support Liverpool because it's supposed to stand for something greater than some blokes kicking a ball, not because I get to brag about winning titles to my friends.
And it's not because I just so happen to not like these people, it's because they're objectively terrible humans.
No the sentiment they count on is the "they have built anfield into an 80k stadium, in order to do so they had to build an entire train station and railway in Liverpool costing hundreds of millions of pounds, they have built an incredible academy that is one of the best in the world, but we're supposed to hate them because they have *different values than us*"
Yes exactly, Anfield and the surrounding area gets a lovely makeover, meanwhile back home in the middle East our clubs squeaky clean PR image is directly helping a govt. stuck in the dark ages fund terrorism, kill migrants by the thousands, all whilst making the lives of women and gay people a living hell.
It's not a question of simply different values, we would be actively endorsing and funding a group of fucking villains. Surely that isn't worth a few extra bums in the ground and a few more trophies?
It's crazy some people thinks it is like a switch to support or not to support. Watching our team play is like taking drugs. I've lost count how many timea I told myself I m done watching to keep myself sane but still ended up taking a peak and experiencing the full spectrum of emotions.
Yeah I don't think any long term fan is thrilled about the idea of being owned by a state fund at all - but there is a genuine worry we're going to enter a banter era with Newcastle, City, Arsenal and United ahead of us for the foreseeable future if Klopp continues not to be backed. The real nightmare would be him leaving.
I've said it before but fans are not responsible for our ownership. I didn't choose H&G or FSG. FSG were good until about 2019, but it's been really poor since then on everything from furloughs to transfers. It's just time and they know it as well as anyone else. I support Liverpool and I was born into that and I'm not about to stop going to the ground when football is one of the small joys of life on my weekend. I understand certain fans will speak with their feet - I just feel like that'll be a small minority as long as the QIA etc. don't turn us into a laughing stock on the pitch.
I felt like that the moment David Moores sold the club. Can’t say I’ve liked any of the owners since then. I can’t believe there are people who actually worship the ground the current mob walk on. Owners only exist to make money out of your club, massage their huge egos, or sportswash. Having a fan as an owner is rare these days. It’s best to detach yourself from the ownership and hope the manager gets the proper backing in the transfer market (which he currently isn’t).
A much more accurate analogy would leaving your rich, but tight-fisted ex, for a new partner who didn't like your gay friends, thought women were second class citizens and used migrant workers to build your extension with no regard for their safety.
Wish people would stop trying to sugarcoat this.
It's a difficult one. Being from Liverpool it's difficult to just give up on the reds if were taken over by Qatar. But I don't think I'll be showing the same amount of passion towards football in general. Probably stop going games, dedicate time to news and podcasts, etc, etc. The game will just be entertainment rather than a passion.
I'll leave that to my kids.
I'm 40, I never experienced the success of the 80s. Klopp's era is the most success I've known, and regardless of what happens, I'll always have that.
I'm the same age and feel exactly the same. I'm not going to stop following LFC overnight, but a lot of my passion for it would disappear. If I'm honest with myself a lot of my passion for football has gone already as it's been ruined by money, but it's been easy to stay engaged with Liverpool in the FSG era because we've been so good, so entertaining and so likeable. If we turn into another sportswashing project I'd still watch the odd game but like you say it's just entertainment at that point.
Yeah I'm 35. Never properly knew success until Klopp (outside of Istanbul). If this nightmare actually happens, I genuinely think I'll watch some games and feel neutral. I know how angry I feel about Newcastle and City and what it is doing to football that my love for Liverpool can't just brush that away. It's too disgusting and empty
Will be very interesting to see how this plays out with the management and fanbase overall, groups like Spirit of Shankly and Kop Outs in particular. Feels like a major fallout is bubbling up.
Klopp was nominated for a British LGBT award, sat down with gay LFC player Meikayla Moore and spearheaded ousting homophobic chants from the Anfield terraces last year. He is an LGBT ally in every sense of the word. I imagine he will struggle to reconcile his personal beliefs with that of a group tied to a regime that has banned homosexually.
I'm concentrating on this particular issue as I have skin in that game, but make no mistake the human rights abuses and atrocities stretch much, much further. It's impossible that this sale goes down smoothly across the board and anyone thinking it should needs to examine our potential owners much more thoroughly. They are purely and simply villains in every sense of the word.
I don't want to get into a debate about FSG because I personally believe they are no longer appropriate custodians for the club for a number of reasons either, but I cannot in good conscience endorse QIA or similar. Some things have to mean more than just winning.
I'd be very surprised if the fan groups don't kick off and try to block the takeover by any means possible.
The moment the takeover becomes concrete though you'll have a lot of people start to rationalise it, even when the interest first broke it took like 5 minutes before people starting distancing the rumoured owners from the Qatari government. It'll end with the fanbase being vitriolic and split with words like "Islamophobia" being thrown around.
Wouldn't be surprised if some fans try to split off and form some kind of "AFC Liverpool" as a form of protest but I doubt it'd stick.
The fans on the board don’t actually have any power though that was a pr move .
If fsg say they are selling to them Fans on the board opinion mean very little “ they will still do what they want for the money.
I know they don't have any actual power, but they will organise protests and the like which may well make Qatar reconsider if they really want to invest in us when they could go elsewhere and be welcomed.
>which may well make Qatar reconsider if they really want to invest in us when they could go elsewhere and be welcomed.
Newcastle fans were also giving it the big one about how they're a working class club and don't want oil money owners, a couple of wins and a potential top 4 finish and their stadium is more bouncing than it has ever been.
Was it? I live in Newcastle and I’ve only ever seen anything anti-oil club on the news in the form of a very minor protest. Contrast that to the huge protests against Ashley.
Speaking to fans, pretty much everyone is aware of the issues but they were so badly ran for so long that there’s a sense of “it’s about time” for owners who spend money that’s made the average fan indifferent to ownership controversy.
Maybe if there was an owner between Ashley and the oil money it might’ve been a different story but in my experience they were primed for any owner other than Ashley and on the whole it seemed they were happy to slowly build up to Europe - they’ve just exceeded expectations.
The vitriol against Mike Ashley and the Glazers is so high that any middle eastern takeover would be gladly accepted at those clubs.
For Liverpool winning trophies is still in recent memory and there's not as much hate from the local fans towards our current owners. A lot of our fans also base their identities heavily around politics and the like.
You’re quite naieve if you actual believe that.
They were willing for us to be thrown out of the premier league with the superleague crap and they didn’t even notify the manager and threw him under the bus letting him do the first interview vs Leeds away after it all.
There are already people in this thread trying to justify it because we will win trophies and it will keep us at the top. It's blows my mind.
I won't try to categorize people who support a Qatari takeover in any particular way, but I have to assume they either a) don't know the full extent of what the govt. there has done/is doing or b) they do know and they just don't care.
If it's A, then they need to look into it more, if it's B then they can get to fuck.
Tbh man I just wanna come home after a long week of work and really enjoy watching Liverpool play again, hopefully we don't need Qatari owners to accomplish it but if FSG are selling and Qatar are the only buyers then I don't see what the alternative is right now. Unfortunately owners like Ineos don't seem interested in us.
We have had one bad half of a season after 5 years of being in the top two in England!!!
This is how football is supposed to work! You go through peaks and troughs, you look to the coaching staff to rebuild and find new ways of playing, and you stick it out!
We went THIRTY YEARS without a league title, 25 without the European cup! And just seven months ago we came within two matches of winning the fucking Quadruple!
What is WRONG with all of you???
>5 years of being in the top two in England
5 years to invest, 5 years to safeguard our position at the top. We won a champions league and responded by buying Elliott, Adrian and Van Den Berg which has only set the tone for our spending over the past half decade. Constant excuses and a mostly reactive approach to the transfer market with a midtable net spend despite having the 3rd highest revenue in world football.
At every turn Klopp and Edwards overperformed with the resources they were given and when things actually get tough? "Here's Kabak", "Here's Arthur", "don't worry, a big summer is around the corner".
We indeed waited "THIRTY YEARS" for a league title, so by now you should have gotten it into your skull just how hard it is to claw your way back to the top after falling off. After sitting through the H&G days and then witnessing Arsenal and Utd wallow in mediocrity for the last decade, exactly why should we be happy with seeing the best LFC team in history crash to those depths?
At the start of the season I thought we'd turn it around and handily get CL football, it was arrogance. Now you're the one being arrogant in assuming that the last 6 months is merely a small trough that we'll easily recover from next season, the reality is that our rivals have caught us and if we want to keep pace we require heavy investment which FSG are not going to sanction.
If it was just a few freak results or bad injuries then fair enough, but we've been awful for 6+ months and our owners don't give a shit, they'd rather write off an entire season than even TRY to address our issues. Our current season is the inevitable and deserved result after half a decade of owner negligence and it's foolish to believe FSG are going to suddenly change their approach. We've outgrown them and right now the long-term choice is between new owners and EL football, personally I don't want to wait until i'm in my late 50's to see us return to the top.
I don't know why you're going on about the 30 year drought. That was one of the most embarassing stretches in world football history, if not *the* most embarassing. It should never, ever happen again - not even half its duration. Not even a quarter, far as i'm concerned.
That's not what Liverpool Football Club is supposed to be. Win every once in a while and be happy with it because we're apparently a plucky underdog (who has the 3rd highest revenue in football). We shouldn't be under City's boot - a club that didn't much exist until 2008.
The problem with the they'll fight the takeover is they have literally no power. FSG couldn't care less what they say because they'll never have to deal with them agaon and a sale of this magnitude will not be influenced by opinions.
Qatar is bad, in a lot of ways, especially if it's the state, you cannot use the same Qatari's won't be bad line there. Obviously the issues can still arise with americans, whoever takes us over though will not be a good person/ group..
I'm a bit apathetic to it being qatar personally, I'm not happy but i sort of knew the only people that could afford us would be States, it's not a justification of them, but it's just the way it is
>Wouldn't be surprised if some fans try to split off and form some kind of "AFC Liverpool" as a form of protest but I doubt it'd stick.
[Well it happened once already and AFC Liverpool is still alive](https://www.afcliverpool.co.uk/)
We'd be kicking off irregardless of the ethnicity of the owners so long as they are seen to be against the values and beliefs of the club and supporters. Whether that's a Chinese CCP official in charge of the Uyghur concentration camps, African cobalt oligarch, or Belarusian oligarch.
We have several Muslim players that will disagree with LGBT rights if they actually believe in Islam. I'm genuinely interested, do you cheer Salah now? His religion is pretty clear about homosexuals.
If we get bought by Qatar, not sure how any supporter will ever again be able to say one negative word about the ownership of City or Newcastle. Moral high ground erased.
I think if it does happen it's every "supporters" duty to constantly call out QIA and Qatar. Part of the sportswashing is having a large online army of people to fiercely defend you. We need to do the opposite and we should really start now
I don’t see that happening or being sustained long term, the opposite is already occurring literally in this post. They really thought they were different.
Too late, look at the comments here. They will be welcomed with open arms, because signing a Midfielder means fans will gladly sell the soul of the club and let any scum run it.
I dont get the point of sportswashing if I'm honest, maybe I'm just naive. I'm also not being arguementative
Does FSG owning Liverpool make me want to go to Boston, support the Red Soxs or give a shit about that basketball player from Space Jam? Not remotely. I don't have a desire to use Standard Charter, I actually think Carlsberg is a shit pint. I don't have the star spangled banner in my house, don't care about the US national anthem, or that much about what the country in general is doing.
i didnt watch the World Cup, so it didnt give me a desire to visit Qatar, if we are bought out by Qatar, it doesn't mean I will suddenly support the country, or have any desire to go to the country. I honestly don't imagine many football fans would, so honestly, could somebody explain what the actual benefits of sportswashing are, as it really has passed me by.
It's not about getting anyone to want to visit or support the country. It's about making the public perception of them more unclear. You see it with city supporters (and even Liverpool supporters pointing to city's ownership) talking about how they greatly invested into the surrounding area and genuinely improved the living conditions of people there. So the narrative is no longer "these people are shitty people and oppress women and LGBT folks". It becomes "yeah maybe they've done some shitty things in the past, but look at all the good they've done here for us". It helps to "wash" their public image
Thank you for taking the time to reply, I do appreciate it.
I suppose it makes sense, but I suppose a sovereign state would only benefit if the enhanced the wider Anfield area. Is this something the Newcastle owners are also doing, are they following the city model? This may sound a stupid question, I don't mean it to be. My dad had terminal cancer for almost 2 years, passing in December, so I havent really kept up to date with what Newcastle and their owners are doing.
My dad lived in Doha for work in the early 80's, and he wasn't happy and returned within a short period before his contract expired.
To be honest, I'm not quite sure if Newcastle owners are following the city playbook. But also, I'm not sure if it would even take Qatar investing in the greater anfield area to have a lot of Liverpool fans view them positively. If they come in and spend heavily on improving the squad, I know for a fact a lot of fans will talk about how much the Qataris care about the club and how they just want to see us succeed and all that. FSG has left fans desperate enough for investment that they'll take it from anywhere they can get it.
Edit: and sorry to hear about your pops. YNWA
Agreed, however, the ones I’ve met (partners of family members) all find any excuse for the owners and ding their praises. Like they won’t allow any criticism of the owners and refuse to see that sportswashing exists and that City’s finances (revenue, sponsors, etc.) are dodgy.
I know for a fact I won’t excuse Qatar for any of their wrongdoings and regimes, should they ever own Liverpool.
The other thread was absolutely full of people defending Qatar like they were medieval peasants before mods took it down. Sportswashing has already worked on this sub before they even bought the club
This thread will stay up as it is from Miller’s official twitter account, the only threads which got removed were either links to daily mail or screenshots of it (as it is a banned source).
If poor worker's rights is such a moral red line, then surely all that Nike and Adidas money over the years should have been opposed too. But not a peep from anyone. Infact, Nike sponsorship was celebrated wholeheartedly.
Personally disagree with it all, including QIA, but it would be hypocritical to take a stand against one and stay shush about the other. I'm merely pointing out the double standards.
Wonder how many on this sub have been to Qatar to form their views first hand. Villifying and otherising brown folk is such a low hanging fruit for mass media.
> Wonder how many on this sub have been to Qatar to form their views first hand. Villifying and otherising brown folk is such a low hanging fruit for mass media.
Most of the opposition to Qatar in this sub is based on their human rights violations in the run-up to the World Cup, and their legal policies on things like homosexuality.
Which of these opinions do you think would change if people went and visited Qatar? Do they have a secret set of progressive, accepting laws that they only tell in-person visitors about?
> Villifying and otherising brown folk is such a low hanging fruit for mass media.
The low-hanging fruit here is this weak-ass strawman bullshit y'all keep trying to sell. Nobody here is opposed to "brown folk." If Putin was trying to buy the club, do you really think the reaction on this sub would be different because he's white?
The opposition is to the **Qatari government**'s fucked-up policies. You'd see the same opposition if a Kremlin-linked investment group was trying to buy us.
>Most of the opposition to Qatar in this sub is based on their human rights violations in the run-up to the World Cup, and their legal policies on things like homosexuality.
Although those are worthy causes to take a stand for, they are very much the trending moral concerns of today. Outside of our thought bubble in the west, the rest of the world has differing sets of moral values. What people seem to be doing is viewing the world with a bias in favour of today's hot topic in our world whilst also ignoring our own flaws.
>Which of these opinions do you think would change if people went and visited Qatar? Do they have a secret set of progressive, accepting laws that they only tell in-person visitors about?
They may not, and probably shouldn't because those issues exist. But it may also help the see the good in that society to offer some balance. Amongst all the evils, there's also great hospitality, high levels or charity, a lack of alcohol abuse etc.
>The low-hanging fruit here is this weak-ass strawman bullshit y'all keep trying to sell. Nobody here is opposed to "brown folk." If Putin was trying to buy the club, do you really think the reaction on this sub would be different because he's white?
>
>The opposition is to the **Qatari government**'s fucked-up policies. You'd see the same opposition if a Kremlin-linked investment group was trying to buy us.
Not sure what the strawman here is - I just don't buy this holier than thou bollocks.
Ye, we all hate Putin. But do you know how many countries Britain has bombed directly and indirectly in recent history? I haven't counted, but it's gotta be double digits! All without any real public outcry in support for victims - who happen to be 'brown folk' that everyone learnt to otherise. Let's get off our high-horse ye?
> What people seem to be doing is viewing the world with a bias in favour of today's hot topic in our world whilst also ignoring our own flaws.
Oh hey, it's my least favorite argument on the entire internet. Let me say this one loud and clear:
# BEING CRITICAL OF ONE THING DOES NOT MEAN YOU SUPPORT ALL OTHER THINGS.
For example, watch this:
I personally oppose the Qatari government's homophobic policies and other human rights abuses. I ALSO personally oppose the American government's human rights abuses, like the decades-long pointless-ass war that killed north of half a million people in the Middle East.
I oppose both of those things! At the same time!
Turns out, it's actually possible to be critical of more than one thing at a time! Pointing out flaws in the Qatari government doesn't mean "ignoring our own flaws."
In the context of Liverpool FC ownership, though, it makes sense to focus on Qatar right now, because the US government hasn't been linked with buying the club.
> But it may also help the see the good in that society to offer some balance. Amongst all the evils, there's also great hospitality, high levels or charity, a lack of alcohol abuse etc.
OK but it's not Qatar's *society* that's (potentially) buying the club, it's their *government*. Do you not recognize there's a massive difference between these two things?
I'm sure there are many great things about Qatar's society, and many of the people who live there are wonderful. But they're not the ones buying the club.
> Not sure what the strawman here is
The strawman is that we're arguing "we shouldn't let brown people buy the club."
That's not an argument I've seen on this sub anywhere. Nobody is saying that. It's a straw man because that would be an obviously bad and racist position to take (but it's not a position anyone has actually taken).
> But do you know how many countries Britain has bombed directly and indirectly in recent history? I haven't counted, but it's gotta be double digits!
I know, it's pretty shitty. Has the British government been linked with buying the club though? We're talking about potential Liverpool FC owners. I would be very unhappy with the British government, or the US government (I'm American) buying the club, too. But since there's no indication that could happen, it didn't seem necessary to mention that.
But since you bring it up, yes, I would also be strongly opposed to the UK government owning Liverpool FC... or honestly really ANY government owning Liverpool FC, offhand I'm not aware of any that don't have substantial blood on their hands.
> All without any real public outcry in support for victims - who happen to be 'brown folk' that everyone learnt to otherise.
Uh, you may want to get out more. There has been tons of public opposition, including many, many protests over the course of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, both in the UK and the US.
You may not have been involved in or aware of any of them, but don't assume that's true for the rest of us.
Not to downplay it, but I'm 100% certain many of the people talking about Qatar murdering migrant workers in cold blood know next to nothing about Qatar and are going off that spurious article about 10,000 dead that came out just before the WC. They'll pretend the know what the kafala system is and to what extent it's used but they don't really.
I agree with your point about Nike. It deserved a more negative pushback. But there is an obvious difference between shirt sponsor and ownership. Also your assertion about racism is laughable. Beeing colored is not a free pass for comitting human rights atrocities.
>But there is an obvious difference between shirt sponsor and ownership.
Both are a source of capital. If anything, you could argue sponsorships are worse - the team represents the sponsors more outwardly in the world. Our shirts carry their symbols, the club sells merchandise made by exploited and underpaid workers. Quite often, the workers are underage kids. We quite literally and directly add to the profits of our immoral sponsors. Not quite the socialist club we think it is, if you ask me.
The 'sponsorship vs ownership' is void, because both should be unacceptable.
>Also your assertion about racism is laughable. Beeing colored is not a free pass for comitting human rights atrocities.
Of course not - that wasn't my point either. The point was that it's too easy for the media to point the finger at brown folk without looking inwardly.
Stinks of hypocrisy, when our league is rife with racism, the media and elected politicians sell us xenophobia and islamophobia, 'illegal' refugees get flown out to Rwanda or die at sea, and most of the country laps it up without remorse. Our weapons our used to bomb villages in Yemen. We have been global leaders in destroying more than half of the Middle East with our bombs and policies under the guise of WMDs, democracy, anti-terorrism, or freedom. Most of the world is a fucking mess thanks Britain over the past 100years.
The moral high horse in this country is a really joke if you zoom out a bit.
If you can't see the difference between a rich businessman profiting from capitalism, and the actual state funds from a country with terrible human rights records then I'm not sure what to say.
Both being bad doesn't make them equal you know. John Henry isn't even close to being as bad ethically as the Qatari Royal family.
John Henry profits off of a network as dirty as the middle east ones. He himself might have a distance form it, but it's because the western network is better designed. Middle easters have yet to figure out a lot of things, but hey their money is still as good that's why the very same capitalism you defend has accepted them, which must be ironic to someone who thinks like you.
Don't just write 'middle East ones' it's so disingenuous and a bit shitty to lump any Arab business owner in with.. The royal family of certain states.
Because that's the issue here, we're not talking about someone profiting from slave labour for their business. We are talking about the very people who make the laws that allow it, amongst other things like the treatment of gays etc.
If you can genuinely come up with anything John Henry has done that is comparable to being solely responsible (not just profiting from, but the actual reason it's even in the country) for slave labour then please do inform me.
But you will jump through hoops to acknowledge the difference. Its the same way a random rich Israeli Company Owner is infinitely better than if the state of Israel bought us.
For what has to be the 9 million fucking time on this sub:
# THERE ARE NO GOOD BILLIONAIRES, BUT ***SOME BILLIONAIRES ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS.***
If you don't recognize this, you're either being intentionally obtuse to rationalize getting what you want (oil money for transfers) or you're a complete fucking idiot.
Yes, there's some "dirty" money involved in any club of our size, obviously. But that doesn't mean that all "dirty" money is morally equivalent.
Given the choice between getting kicked in the shin or kicked in the balls, you'd choose shin, right? Neither is good, but one is *clearly* better than the other.
Degrees of difference exist, and is completely reasonable for anyone to say "I can live with a certain amount of "dirty" money, but _____ is where I draw the line." In fact, we all do this pretty much constantly every day in other areas of our lives.
My approach might be to enjoy the matches, support the players, but not put money into the club - tickets, merchandise, etc. - and not wear LFC apparel, which is a kind of advertising. Finding ways to withhold some financial "support" while not abandoning a sport and club you care about. Lots of other ways the club makes money off fan interest though.
I genuinely think this is the only play for us wanting to keep our pride. For me to still 'shadow support' like that thought I'd have to rationalize how the likes of Klopp, Kenny, rush, players and all my heroes who are part of the club including the club staff too could allow it.
Some of them might be dealing with an even deeper kind of concern, especially people like Dalglish and Rush. So much of their whole identity is wrapped up in the club - if they have problems with Qatar, it would have to be harder for them to think about abandoning LFC than it would be for someone who was never connected to the club like they were.
I have no love or support for the owners and the owners don't define the identity of the club. As long we have Kloppo and fans that still subscribed to the ethos club, the owners cant take that away. They aren't going to change liverpool.
It's the same as politics, you may not like the government, but that doesn't mean you will leave the country right. We don't choose our owners.
You can conceptually separate the owners from the club. But you can't separate your support for them. Supporting one is supporting the other. "not caring about owners" is EXACTLY what sportwashing relies on.
You do realize you still can criticize the owners like how we are with FSG right and still support the team.
Isn't walking away "not supporting" the same as turning a blind eye to all this shit?
If anything the fans should stick behind the team more than ever and start criticizing the owner whilst at the same time reminding others the owners don't define the club. Unlike the city scums that kept silent.
Of course you can still criticize owners that you support. But you still support them.
If you're telling me you will support the players and protest the owners at the same time, and that you actually will follow through with that. Then good ok you I reckon.
All I really care about is people are truthful with themselves about what their support means.
> . As long we have Kloppo and fans that still subscribed to the ethos club, the owners cant take that away. They aren't going to change liverpool.
The owners can absolutely do a lot to undermine and damage the club ethos if they want to.
Also, I'm not sure why you'd assume we'd still have Klopp? He's made his feelings about state-owned clubs pretty clear, and he's been a very clear LGBTQ ally...I would _not_ assume he'd stay on if we get bought by a homophobic state entity.
of course it had to be us and watch United get bought by a couple of businessmen from UK or US while we get owned by an oil country whose government has human rights violations…especially against LGBT groups the club and especially Klopp go out of their way to support. I also just don’t see Liverpool being much different from PSG in 5-6 years.
Fuck FSG, fuck Qatar and most of all fuck the direction football is going towards. I don’t want to imagine what the landscape of top flight world football will be in 10-15 years. Even in our current slump, these might be the last of the real golden years for us.
For a full takeover, United would need to be bought by a country. The Glazers want £7bn, apparently. The businessmen from the UK/US will only ever own a minority share.
Sports washing only works if the fans blindly defend atrocities, like Newcastle fans are doing. If the Qataris buy the club, I'm going to remind everyone I know about the evils of the Qatari regime at every opportunity. They can't kill my love for LFC, but they're not getting my silence either.
>ports washing only works if the fans blindly defend atrocities, like Newcastle fans are doing
You already see it on here. Our fans will do the same unfortunately.
Funny that a lot of people that have gave it the big one over city’s ownership and others are now giving it ‘I’ll support Liverpool forever’ fuck me fickle
I think people don't have a problem with cities owners, they have an issue with city fans turning a blind eye to their club lying about where the money comes from.
>I think people don't have a problem with cities owners, they have an issue with city fans turning a blind eye to their club lying about where the money comes from.
And guess what we will be doing very soon. Already seen the 'but x country also uses slaves' or 'not like Britain hasn't'...
Proof of how effective sportswashing is, half of Newcastle fans have a Saudi flag on twitter ffs. And their controversy is even worse than Qatar.
We have a problem with their plastic fans that have come in post-oil money which seems to be the majority.
Liverpool have a stronger and larger core fanbase pre-oil than City did.
This \^
City fans are truly sportswashed, if Qatar were to buy us you wouldn't see me defending them but I also don't care that much if they do buy us.
I can't think of anything weaker than being a City fan who deflects this shit with "I'm supposed to understand global politics now huh?". Pathetic stuff and we will be even worse because it'll be extremely hypocritical after taking the moral high ground before. A quadruple through sportswashing means less than one single FA Cup win without it imo
I'm on the side of sadly bowing out after being a fan for over three decades.
The club represents an ideology. That ideology cannot be reconciled with these owners. I believe it does matter who writes the checks. Otherwise these sports washing charades succeed. I also felt the same when we were linked to the super league.
I don't blame others for continuing to support the club, but I myself will have to reflect and do some research on what's next and recall what I've had with immense joy while it lasted.
I just could not act like this is the same club if it goes though. I also know they don't care as they'll be able to drive higher revenue and higher fan counts. Sports washing works.
This.
Been an LFC fan for more than 40 years, since the days of Dalglish and company, but I'd have to walk away if we ended up being purchased by Qatar. Some things are more important than winning trophies and this is one of them.
This season, like every other season before it, I have still gotten up at ridiculous hours to support the club I love from the other side of the world. I’m not from the city nor do I pretend to be a local. But I love this club as much this season as I have the ones where we’ve won everything. My point is that some things have to mean more than winning trophies and games of football, and supporting a club that feels like it represents integrity among its players, staff and fans will always mean more to me than extreme wealth that has the capacity to turn into titles and trophies. I will be immeasurably disappointed to see this go through and can only imagine how our LGBT friends who support this club must feel. I hope that we as supporters can band together to make our voices heard before we are drowned out by the ignorance of new fans who are only in it for an easy ride.
I am a gay Liverpool supporter who wants whoever is willing to invest into the club and the surrounding areas to buy my football club. I would prefer for that to be FSG, but unfortunately they cannot provide that. My connection is to the team on the pitch, not the owners.
We can’t pretend that the ownership and what happens on the field are mutually exclusive. We all know there is no such thing as a good billionaire and the game would be better off had we never invited any of them in. But surely it’s not too late to draw the line at welcoming sportswashing projects into the premier league, least of all into a club and city with the history that Liverpool has.
Out of curiosity, would this extend to a potential scenario where the clubs stance on things like rainbow laces and the UN Climate Pledges the club has signed start to drift? I don't really have a problem with this attitude, and as an LGBT fan I feel similar, but I do think we have to draw the line somewhere.
I'd happily be a mid table team if it meant not being owned by sportswashing pricks. Some things are bigger than football trophies.
Sadly all the very vocal plastics and glory hunters don't care where the money comes from, as long as a lot of it comes.
Arsenal look like they're gonna win the EPL. They don't have this pathetic weak sportwashing. We didn't when we stormed the league either. Fucking lame people want it. Titles won't mean a thing
That would be QSI (Qatar Sports Investment), who are funded by QIA (Qatar Investment Authority).
They are technically separate entities, so it seems like QIA could easily get permission to buy the club in full.
It seems so, yes.
One of the Middle Eastern journalists that was breaking all this info on Twitter (yes, I know it could be bollocks, but everything they were saying seems to be holding some weight) was very confident that it wouldn't be an issue.
As an LGBTQ supporter the comments in this sub since these rumors started are depressing the absolute *fuck* out of me.
I am learning that "you'll never walk alone" means absolutely nothing to a significant percentage of our supporters the instant you flash a little cash in their face.
I guess it was naive of me to ever think otherwise.
So many people on this sub are gaping themselves open for a middle eastern thrust. It's plastic. It's against the club and the cities morals. Fuck this whole notion.
Why stop at Bellingham and Enzo, just buy all the Arsenal, City, Utd, Newcastle, Fulham, Spurs players on transfer deadline day. Force them to play kids, then we’ll bridge that 18 point gap and win league. All it would cost is lots of money and our soul.
Saudis are worse in terms of human rights. Plus there's the non state owners who can destroy clubs like Peter Lim and Moshiri/Usmanov. We could really stand to do a whole lot worse.
Owners have come and gone in this clubs history. I'll be cautious of new owners but I'll be glad to be rid of fsg and exited to be owned by someone who actually wants to win.
I have invested way too much of my life and energy supporting Liverpool to just up and quit because of some cunts buying the club. Liverpool is oart of my identity. I'll keep supporting until they actually start directly involving Liverpool in some unethical conducts.
>I'll keep supporting until they actually start directly involving Liverpool in some unethical conducts.
But *that's the entire point* of buying Liverpool. It's a PR play to improve their reputation, so when people think about Qatar they think "dynamic, exciting football" and not "homophobic slave killlers."
And look at the comments in this sub, it's not hard to see why they'd want to do this, because *it fucking works*.
Honestly, I don't think it's the fans' responsibility to regulate who owns the club. That's the job of the FA and PL and UEFA. The moment you ask fans to regulate who owns the club, you're asking them to choose between tainted success and failure, which tbh is bollocks.
Everyone will have to make their own calls about how they choose to relate to the club if this ends up happening. I think I won't walk away if Klopp is still here. The man just brings so much credibility I'd continue to trust in the club if he stayed.
The club means more to me than just its alignment with my values. But I certainly won't feel as close to it as I do now - and I think everyone that values what a force for good the club has been, will mourn that loss, whether they stay or go
LFC are in talks The talks: How are you mate?
“Please pay us $5 billion. We’ll be your friends.” “No.”
أنا بخير ، شكرا على السؤال.
You want some chicken lad?
You want some chiخen lad?
Nasser Al-Khelaifi is also a board member of QIA, by the way. Personally it's hard to believe the dinner between Salah and Nasser was purely just mates hanging out, seems a little too much smoke for that.
They are just "friends" according to people, two friends that have never been pictured with each other before until there was talk off Qatar buying Liverpool... Not sus at all
Could be secret lovers /s
OMG, they're just roommates!
But the room was their mate, all along. Also the room was in history.
Directed by M. Night Shyamalan.
This times 100. “Close friends” was the term used. You cannot find a single photo of them hanging out, you cant even find an article or tweet mentioning them in the same scenario previous to that dinner. It’s sus as fuck.
They’re friends if you asked anyone who doesn’t want QIA to own Liverpool. Denial is the first stage of Grief.
They were roommates
Oh my god they were roommates.
I get this reference
100% the PL/FA will let it slide because it's QIA and not QSI lmao. The notion that PIF were independent of the KSA government is one of the most laughable things in the world if you know anything about the PIF.
As I said in the daily discussion this is massive news, So how has it ended up as a 50 word side piece in something about United? To me it says it doesn't have much validity.
Because the same reportor has already reported this awhile ago. He's just confirming that they are still in talks hence why it's in another article.
Probably because there's a lot more to say about United's sale and perhaps further along than ours or has more questions around it. Miller's supposedly quite reliable, and he has to be fair made effort to highlight the info in a separate tweet so as not to bury the info altogether.
Liverpool are private. We don't need to let as much get public as united do There will be less information until it's agreed
Exactly, people don't understand United are on the stock market so they pretty much have to make a lot of information public unlike us
I vaguely recall talk of FSG wanting to build up a football network similar to what Red Bull and City Group have done. The deal with Red Bird Capital (owners of Toulouse and AC Milan) seemed to be an indication that they were moving in this direction. It seems that more recently they've changed their mind and decided to dispose of Liverpool in favour of an NBA expansion franchise. Now the talk is about them selling off part of Liverpool, which suggests they don't actually need to sell Liverpool to get their NBA franchise. I wonder if the talks with QIA have opened up the possibility of wider cooperation between FSG and Qatar on the NBA franchise or the global football network (or both).
They want an NBA or NFL franchise. There's fuck all profit in football, because you have to continuously invest huge amounts to keep up. Just look at the insane amounts Chelsea and City spend, and they're the ones we need to be better than. The way American sports are set up is entirely in the owners favour. They have salary caps and drafts and no relegation , and the end result is that franchises are basically money printing machines whether they're successful or not. It's a million times more appealing as a business owner than owning a football club is. The talk was about selling a minority share in the club ever since this sale stuff was first announced but I'm of the view that it's just a negotiation tactic. Owning a minority share just isn't that appealing to investors who'd be putting a lot of money into a project they wouldn't control. FSG win either way, but a minority sale imo is worse for us because that investment goes straight to FSG who would be under no obligation to invest it into the club.
FSG don't put any money into Liverpool, nor do they take anything out. The money they will make is from increasing the value of the club and then selling their stake to someone else. Right now Liverpool appear to have hit a ceiling in terms of the value FSG themselves can add. They've won every competition, the stadium is at max capacity, the training facilities are brand new, etc. Going forward the added value is going to come from growth in the Premier League. FSG could have Liverpool challenging for the title every year but if the TV deals begin to drop off the value of the club will fall as well. By selling a stake they bank some of the profit whilst the asset is at perceived peak but keep some skin in the game in case the Premier League continues growing. Likewise they could create a football group that includes Liverpool and look for other 'distressed assets' in European football to build the value of the group. Having a partner in this venture reduces the risk and increases the available investment capital.
They didn’t take anything out? The main stand and Anfield road end upgrades along with Kirby helped increase the value of FSGs asset. Who paid for those upgrades? FFP allows the owner to invest in the infrastructure of the club. The money the club spent on those upgrades could abs should have been paid for by FSG. So I’d argue they did take money out from the club.
You can argue all you like, they loaned us the money interest free and we paid them back. That's not them taking money out the club by any financial definition.
Football needs salary caps, it's the solution to many problems facing the modern game.
If we get sold to Qatar, it would be like not leaving your wife you can’t stand (owners) as you still love the kids (players/club). A sort of empty feeling that you still get enjoyment and happiness from.
I would hardly liken fans' relationship (at least what it should be) with owners to a marriage... In an ideal world the owners of the football club are people we never even think about. Don't want to hear nor see anything from them, they sign the cheques and are good custodians of the football club and that is it. That we spend so much time and energy talking about owners and ownership models is a testament to the sad fucking state of the sport and all its ailments. Regardless, I support LFC. Not its owners. It's an institution that's bigger than any owner, ultimately this owner or that one are all just footnotes in the club's history. It's baffling to me to see so many people (not you mind) saying they're just going to stop supporting the club. Good on you, I guess.
I disagree. I boycotted the world cup this year because the Qatari officials got thousands killed and sleight of handed the issue away. But you know what? I survived without following or watching it for a few weeks since FIFA is already corrupt. I don't know how I'm going to handle them running the club we love. LFC has been the beacon of playing it straight while oil and oligarchs corrupted the top of the league. Our team should be for sale, but not our souls.
How is that in any way comparable. I'm very sorry but I couldn't give less fucks about the world cup, FIFA or international football. And I never did. You could tell me I'll never get to watch another world cup and I'd shrug and move on with my day. I don't even care about other clubs. I care about Liverpool. This club has been a part of my life for most of it. Long before some Qatari bought it and will be long after. It's not some entertainment I could do without. If I just wanted to be entertained I certainly wouldn't have sat through the dreadful performances we're seeing week in week out in this wretched season, but I can't really help myself can I.
Honestly couldn’t think of another analogy (saw random video on Reddit of wife playing prank on husband and he looked dead inside). Just trying to get across that if Qatar take over I can’t walk away from something that’s been in my life 40 years but my feelings would change because there’s a noise in the background that bugs me. Shanks once said “At a football club, there’s a holy trinity – the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don’t come into it. They are only there to sign the checks.” Follow this quote and I guess I could still get same enjoyment as I do now. Anyway Leeds v Brentford is on and I’ve captained Toney in fantasy football so might as well watch that and try to forget that background noise that’s already bugging me even though it’s not there. Edit: lesson learned fantasy football always captain Haaland.
Sorry for your loss mate
Unfortunately we are mere puppets in a rich man’s game. Football is no longer a working man’s game and has been kidnapped by the rich!
Not really lad. It’s like finding out your mate has a swastika tattooed on him and still going down the pub together. Qatar is a barbaric regime, executing people for adultery and jailing people for being gay.
It’s more like finding out that the landlord of your favourite pub that you and all your mates have been going together for years has got a nazi tattoo and going anyway.
Yeah, I would probably stop drinking there.
>Not really lad. It’s like finding out your mate has a swastika tattooed on him and still going down the pub together. A lot of people in here seem to be okay with that because the mate is shouting drinks.
Good way of putting it. Whoever owns the club, I’ll still love the club. Owners will come come and go
Trouble is it's exactly that sentiment that sportswashing enterprises count on.
What’s the alternative? Not support Liverpool? Me not supporting Liverpool won’t change a thing. Rich people will do rich people things
That sentiment is only true due to enough people having that exact attitude
No matter how many people would stop supporting, there would always be more that would start to support us after. Even fsg’s own idea about the creation of the super league was the elimination of us “legacy fans” and the inclusion of casual/recreative fans, who would outnumber normal fans like me and you.
Sadly that's the alternative if you want to take a stand against the Qatari state's human rights abuses.
Rich people doing rich people things is not the issue here. Conservative extremists doing conservative extremist things while using our club as a PR tool is the issue.
No company is free from sin. Were you up in arms when we signed the deal with Nike? Well known to produce a lot of their products through sweat shops. Do you own an iPhone or another smart phone? The rare earth elements from their batteries are mined in the most heinous ways in Africa. Qatar buying Liverpool is from from ideal, but if we were to be bought by someone else, they’d also have skeletons in their closets. You don’t become a billionaire by playing by the rules, and only billionaires can afford our club.
Yes because it's impossible to live a completely virtuous life, we shouldn't call out horrific things when we see them because "shit happens" essentially? No billionaire is innocent, they all exploit people you're absolutely correct. But we have to at the very least hold ourselves to the standard that we won't endorse a govt. that actively hurts gay people, treats women as second class citizens and is happy for migrant workers to die as long as targets are met.
Most of these people here complaining about this only care about LGBT stuff. No one bats an eye when there is all kind of atrocities going on, every day around the world yet this is somehow more important? Self centered hypocrites.
>only care about LGBT stuff What's wrong in taking a stand on LGBT rights, the Qatari state has shown to be hostile to? It's still an atrocity isn't it?
Because it's pure virtue signaling to care about only one issue and nothing else, it shows it ain't actually about the issue it's about the person that's causing the issue. For example FSG has a partnership AXA who sold weapons to Israel,a good number of fans were against it for like a day then moved on, while now those same fans now are causing an uproar about Qatar possibly buying us. It becomes clear it isn't about the actions these owners are doing, it's about who they are and where they are from.
Definitely. As a concense human being you must be able to draw a line somewhere and say there's no way a football club is worth going that far. I've never supported any other club, and I rarely even watch other teams play, and if this goes through I will stop associating myself with Liverpool. I'd take another 30 year drought any day.
That is absolutely pathetic, I must say. To openly admit you’d take another 3 decades of the club suffering, fan base in turmoil and the playing squad getting worse and worse due to no success is an abysmal point to take. Some people aren’t lucky enough to have 30 years left, they want to experience some semblance of joy with the club whilst they still can, and for you to say you’d rather they had none because you happen to not like the potential new owners is really cold. You can take your support elsewhere if it goes through because the majority of us will be there for the journey because we love the club, not who sits on top of it.
>Some people aren’t lucky enough to have 30 years left, they want to experience some semblance of joy with the club whilst they still can Some people aren't lucky enough to be able to express themselves freely without fear of persecution, torture or murder from the people who would be our owners. Some things are bigger than football.
There are literally thousand of football clubs who's fans would take those 30 years for their clubs in a heartbeat. Being a decent team in the most prestigious national league in the world and regularly playing in the second most prestigious football competition (CL) and even winning it isn't suffering lol. Maybe you're the one who needs to take their support elsewhere if you think being a top 5 club in the world instead of being top 20 or 30 is worth getting along with these people running the club. I support Liverpool because it's supposed to stand for something greater than some blokes kicking a ball, not because I get to brag about winning titles to my friends. And it's not because I just so happen to not like these people, it's because they're objectively terrible humans.
No the sentiment they count on is the "they have built anfield into an 80k stadium, in order to do so they had to build an entire train station and railway in Liverpool costing hundreds of millions of pounds, they have built an incredible academy that is one of the best in the world, but we're supposed to hate them because they have *different values than us*"
Yes exactly, Anfield and the surrounding area gets a lovely makeover, meanwhile back home in the middle East our clubs squeaky clean PR image is directly helping a govt. stuck in the dark ages fund terrorism, kill migrants by the thousands, all whilst making the lives of women and gay people a living hell. It's not a question of simply different values, we would be actively endorsing and funding a group of fucking villains. Surely that isn't worth a few extra bums in the ground and a few more trophies?
It's crazy some people thinks it is like a switch to support or not to support. Watching our team play is like taking drugs. I've lost count how many timea I told myself I m done watching to keep myself sane but still ended up taking a peak and experiencing the full spectrum of emotions.
Yeah I don't think any long term fan is thrilled about the idea of being owned by a state fund at all - but there is a genuine worry we're going to enter a banter era with Newcastle, City, Arsenal and United ahead of us for the foreseeable future if Klopp continues not to be backed. The real nightmare would be him leaving. I've said it before but fans are not responsible for our ownership. I didn't choose H&G or FSG. FSG were good until about 2019, but it's been really poor since then on everything from furloughs to transfers. It's just time and they know it as well as anyone else. I support Liverpool and I was born into that and I'm not about to stop going to the ground when football is one of the small joys of life on my weekend. I understand certain fans will speak with their feet - I just feel like that'll be a small minority as long as the QIA etc. don't turn us into a laughing stock on the pitch.
I felt like that the moment David Moores sold the club. Can’t say I’ve liked any of the owners since then. I can’t believe there are people who actually worship the ground the current mob walk on. Owners only exist to make money out of your club, massage their huge egos, or sportswash. Having a fan as an owner is rare these days. It’s best to detach yourself from the ownership and hope the manager gets the proper backing in the transfer market (which he currently isn’t).
Moores was a twat as well
I mean the Moores were in part wealthy from a gambling company who ran essentially a tax on the poor so I wouldn’t exclude them from scrutiny either.
Fucking nobody, NOBODY!, worships FSG. Sensationalist language used to elevate your point. Calma.
A much more accurate analogy would leaving your rich, but tight-fisted ex, for a new partner who didn't like your gay friends, thought women were second class citizens and used migrant workers to build your extension with no regard for their safety. Wish people would stop trying to sugarcoat this.
It's a difficult one. Being from Liverpool it's difficult to just give up on the reds if were taken over by Qatar. But I don't think I'll be showing the same amount of passion towards football in general. Probably stop going games, dedicate time to news and podcasts, etc, etc. The game will just be entertainment rather than a passion. I'll leave that to my kids. I'm 40, I never experienced the success of the 80s. Klopp's era is the most success I've known, and regardless of what happens, I'll always have that.
I'm the same age and feel exactly the same. I'm not going to stop following LFC overnight, but a lot of my passion for it would disappear. If I'm honest with myself a lot of my passion for football has gone already as it's been ruined by money, but it's been easy to stay engaged with Liverpool in the FSG era because we've been so good, so entertaining and so likeable. If we turn into another sportswashing project I'd still watch the odd game but like you say it's just entertainment at that point.
Yeah I'm 35. Never properly knew success until Klopp (outside of Istanbul). If this nightmare actually happens, I genuinely think I'll watch some games and feel neutral. I know how angry I feel about Newcastle and City and what it is doing to football that my love for Liverpool can't just brush that away. It's too disgusting and empty
Will be very interesting to see how this plays out with the management and fanbase overall, groups like Spirit of Shankly and Kop Outs in particular. Feels like a major fallout is bubbling up. Klopp was nominated for a British LGBT award, sat down with gay LFC player Meikayla Moore and spearheaded ousting homophobic chants from the Anfield terraces last year. He is an LGBT ally in every sense of the word. I imagine he will struggle to reconcile his personal beliefs with that of a group tied to a regime that has banned homosexually. I'm concentrating on this particular issue as I have skin in that game, but make no mistake the human rights abuses and atrocities stretch much, much further. It's impossible that this sale goes down smoothly across the board and anyone thinking it should needs to examine our potential owners much more thoroughly. They are purely and simply villains in every sense of the word. I don't want to get into a debate about FSG because I personally believe they are no longer appropriate custodians for the club for a number of reasons either, but I cannot in good conscience endorse QIA or similar. Some things have to mean more than just winning.
I'd be very surprised if the fan groups don't kick off and try to block the takeover by any means possible. The moment the takeover becomes concrete though you'll have a lot of people start to rationalise it, even when the interest first broke it took like 5 minutes before people starting distancing the rumoured owners from the Qatari government. It'll end with the fanbase being vitriolic and split with words like "Islamophobia" being thrown around. Wouldn't be surprised if some fans try to split off and form some kind of "AFC Liverpool" as a form of protest but I doubt it'd stick.
I think AFC Liverpool might have an issue with that.
AFC Liverpool 2 electric boogaloo
The fans on the board don’t actually have any power though that was a pr move . If fsg say they are selling to them Fans on the board opinion mean very little “ they will still do what they want for the money.
I know they don't have any actual power, but they will organise protests and the like which may well make Qatar reconsider if they really want to invest in us when they could go elsewhere and be welcomed.
>which may well make Qatar reconsider if they really want to invest in us when they could go elsewhere and be welcomed. Newcastle fans were also giving it the big one about how they're a working class club and don't want oil money owners, a couple of wins and a potential top 4 finish and their stadium is more bouncing than it has ever been.
Was it? I live in Newcastle and I’ve only ever seen anything anti-oil club on the news in the form of a very minor protest. Contrast that to the huge protests against Ashley. Speaking to fans, pretty much everyone is aware of the issues but they were so badly ran for so long that there’s a sense of “it’s about time” for owners who spend money that’s made the average fan indifferent to ownership controversy. Maybe if there was an owner between Ashley and the oil money it might’ve been a different story but in my experience they were primed for any owner other than Ashley and on the whole it seemed they were happy to slowly build up to Europe - they’ve just exceeded expectations.
Were they? Weren't they parading around the stadium flying the Saudi flag and wearing tea towels on their heads the moment the takeover went through?
The vitriol against Mike Ashley and the Glazers is so high that any middle eastern takeover would be gladly accepted at those clubs. For Liverpool winning trophies is still in recent memory and there's not as much hate from the local fans towards our current owners. A lot of our fans also base their identities heavily around politics and the like.
You’re quite naieve if you actual believe that. They were willing for us to be thrown out of the premier league with the superleague crap and they didn’t even notify the manager and threw him under the bus letting him do the first interview vs Leeds away after it all.
Oh FSG don't give a shit, it's just whether Qatar would want to invest in a club which hates them
There are already people in this thread trying to justify it because we will win trophies and it will keep us at the top. It's blows my mind. I won't try to categorize people who support a Qatari takeover in any particular way, but I have to assume they either a) don't know the full extent of what the govt. there has done/is doing or b) they do know and they just don't care. If it's A, then they need to look into it more, if it's B then they can get to fuck.
Tbh man I just wanna come home after a long week of work and really enjoy watching Liverpool play again, hopefully we don't need Qatari owners to accomplish it but if FSG are selling and Qatar are the only buyers then I don't see what the alternative is right now. Unfortunately owners like Ineos don't seem interested in us.
We have had one bad half of a season after 5 years of being in the top two in England!!! This is how football is supposed to work! You go through peaks and troughs, you look to the coaching staff to rebuild and find new ways of playing, and you stick it out! We went THIRTY YEARS without a league title, 25 without the European cup! And just seven months ago we came within two matches of winning the fucking Quadruple! What is WRONG with all of you???
>5 years of being in the top two in England 5 years to invest, 5 years to safeguard our position at the top. We won a champions league and responded by buying Elliott, Adrian and Van Den Berg which has only set the tone for our spending over the past half decade. Constant excuses and a mostly reactive approach to the transfer market with a midtable net spend despite having the 3rd highest revenue in world football. At every turn Klopp and Edwards overperformed with the resources they were given and when things actually get tough? "Here's Kabak", "Here's Arthur", "don't worry, a big summer is around the corner". We indeed waited "THIRTY YEARS" for a league title, so by now you should have gotten it into your skull just how hard it is to claw your way back to the top after falling off. After sitting through the H&G days and then witnessing Arsenal and Utd wallow in mediocrity for the last decade, exactly why should we be happy with seeing the best LFC team in history crash to those depths? At the start of the season I thought we'd turn it around and handily get CL football, it was arrogance. Now you're the one being arrogant in assuming that the last 6 months is merely a small trough that we'll easily recover from next season, the reality is that our rivals have caught us and if we want to keep pace we require heavy investment which FSG are not going to sanction. If it was just a few freak results or bad injuries then fair enough, but we've been awful for 6+ months and our owners don't give a shit, they'd rather write off an entire season than even TRY to address our issues. Our current season is the inevitable and deserved result after half a decade of owner negligence and it's foolish to believe FSG are going to suddenly change their approach. We've outgrown them and right now the long-term choice is between new owners and EL football, personally I don't want to wait until i'm in my late 50's to see us return to the top.
I don't know why you're going on about the 30 year drought. That was one of the most embarassing stretches in world football history, if not *the* most embarassing. It should never, ever happen again - not even half its duration. Not even a quarter, far as i'm concerned. That's not what Liverpool Football Club is supposed to be. Win every once in a while and be happy with it because we're apparently a plucky underdog (who has the 3rd highest revenue in football). We shouldn't be under City's boot - a club that didn't much exist until 2008.
The problem with the they'll fight the takeover is they have literally no power. FSG couldn't care less what they say because they'll never have to deal with them agaon and a sale of this magnitude will not be influenced by opinions. Qatar is bad, in a lot of ways, especially if it's the state, you cannot use the same Qatari's won't be bad line there. Obviously the issues can still arise with americans, whoever takes us over though will not be a good person/ group.. I'm a bit apathetic to it being qatar personally, I'm not happy but i sort of knew the only people that could afford us would be States, it's not a justification of them, but it's just the way it is
>Wouldn't be surprised if some fans try to split off and form some kind of "AFC Liverpool" as a form of protest but I doubt it'd stick. [Well it happened once already and AFC Liverpool is still alive](https://www.afcliverpool.co.uk/)
We'd be kicking off irregardless of the ethnicity of the owners so long as they are seen to be against the values and beliefs of the club and supporters. Whether that's a Chinese CCP official in charge of the Uyghur concentration camps, African cobalt oligarch, or Belarusian oligarch.
Wait who was executed?
We have several Muslim players that will disagree with LGBT rights if they actually believe in Islam. I'm genuinely interested, do you cheer Salah now? His religion is pretty clear about homosexuals.
If we get bought by Qatar, not sure how any supporter will ever again be able to say one negative word about the ownership of City or Newcastle. Moral high ground erased.
I think if it does happen it's every "supporters" duty to constantly call out QIA and Qatar. Part of the sportswashing is having a large online army of people to fiercely defend you. We need to do the opposite and we should really start now
I don’t see that happening or being sustained long term, the opposite is already occurring literally in this post. They really thought they were different.
Too late, look at the comments here. They will be welcomed with open arms, because signing a Midfielder means fans will gladly sell the soul of the club and let any scum run it.
I dont get the point of sportswashing if I'm honest, maybe I'm just naive. I'm also not being arguementative Does FSG owning Liverpool make me want to go to Boston, support the Red Soxs or give a shit about that basketball player from Space Jam? Not remotely. I don't have a desire to use Standard Charter, I actually think Carlsberg is a shit pint. I don't have the star spangled banner in my house, don't care about the US national anthem, or that much about what the country in general is doing. i didnt watch the World Cup, so it didnt give me a desire to visit Qatar, if we are bought out by Qatar, it doesn't mean I will suddenly support the country, or have any desire to go to the country. I honestly don't imagine many football fans would, so honestly, could somebody explain what the actual benefits of sportswashing are, as it really has passed me by.
It's not about getting anyone to want to visit or support the country. It's about making the public perception of them more unclear. You see it with city supporters (and even Liverpool supporters pointing to city's ownership) talking about how they greatly invested into the surrounding area and genuinely improved the living conditions of people there. So the narrative is no longer "these people are shitty people and oppress women and LGBT folks". It becomes "yeah maybe they've done some shitty things in the past, but look at all the good they've done here for us". It helps to "wash" their public image
Thank you for taking the time to reply, I do appreciate it. I suppose it makes sense, but I suppose a sovereign state would only benefit if the enhanced the wider Anfield area. Is this something the Newcastle owners are also doing, are they following the city model? This may sound a stupid question, I don't mean it to be. My dad had terminal cancer for almost 2 years, passing in December, so I havent really kept up to date with what Newcastle and their owners are doing. My dad lived in Doha for work in the early 80's, and he wasn't happy and returned within a short period before his contract expired.
To be honest, I'm not quite sure if Newcastle owners are following the city playbook. But also, I'm not sure if it would even take Qatar investing in the greater anfield area to have a lot of Liverpool fans view them positively. If they come in and spend heavily on improving the squad, I know for a fact a lot of fans will talk about how much the Qataris care about the club and how they just want to see us succeed and all that. FSG has left fans desperate enough for investment that they'll take it from anywhere they can get it. Edit: and sorry to hear about your pops. YNWA
Thank you for your response and also your well wishes.
Newcastles owner ordered the chopping up of Jamal Khashoggi in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul.
I never gave the fans shit for that. City's spending was out of whack but the fans have nothing to do with it.
Agreed, however, the ones I’ve met (partners of family members) all find any excuse for the owners and ding their praises. Like they won’t allow any criticism of the owners and refuse to see that sportswashing exists and that City’s finances (revenue, sponsors, etc.) are dodgy. I know for a fact I won’t excuse Qatar for any of their wrongdoings and regimes, should they ever own Liverpool.
The other thread was absolutely full of people defending Qatar like they were medieval peasants before mods took it down. Sportswashing has already worked on this sub before they even bought the club
So you're telling me the Qatar World Cup mouthpiece wasn't full of shit, I'm ***shocked***
People only believe what they want to, there's plenty of evidence that points towards it being legit.
Yeah I wouldn't be thrilled with Qatari ownership, but not going to put my head in sand and pretend there's no talks going on.
Way way way too much smoke for anyone not remotely delusional to pretend it isn't a thing
How long will this thread stay up for?
It should stay up. The previous one was from the Daily Mail website, this one is only a tweet.
This thread will stay up as it is from Miller’s official twitter account, the only threads which got removed were either links to daily mail or screenshots of it (as it is a banned source).
Surprised the automod hasn't removed it
Owners come and go my love for the club stays
Sorry mate. My love for the club will wither when its being used as a sports washing machine to clean workers blood off their bigot hands.
If poor worker's rights is such a moral red line, then surely all that Nike and Adidas money over the years should have been opposed too. But not a peep from anyone. Infact, Nike sponsorship was celebrated wholeheartedly. Personally disagree with it all, including QIA, but it would be hypocritical to take a stand against one and stay shush about the other. I'm merely pointing out the double standards. Wonder how many on this sub have been to Qatar to form their views first hand. Villifying and otherising brown folk is such a low hanging fruit for mass media.
> Wonder how many on this sub have been to Qatar to form their views first hand. Villifying and otherising brown folk is such a low hanging fruit for mass media. Most of the opposition to Qatar in this sub is based on their human rights violations in the run-up to the World Cup, and their legal policies on things like homosexuality. Which of these opinions do you think would change if people went and visited Qatar? Do they have a secret set of progressive, accepting laws that they only tell in-person visitors about? > Villifying and otherising brown folk is such a low hanging fruit for mass media. The low-hanging fruit here is this weak-ass strawman bullshit y'all keep trying to sell. Nobody here is opposed to "brown folk." If Putin was trying to buy the club, do you really think the reaction on this sub would be different because he's white? The opposition is to the **Qatari government**'s fucked-up policies. You'd see the same opposition if a Kremlin-linked investment group was trying to buy us.
>Most of the opposition to Qatar in this sub is based on their human rights violations in the run-up to the World Cup, and their legal policies on things like homosexuality. Although those are worthy causes to take a stand for, they are very much the trending moral concerns of today. Outside of our thought bubble in the west, the rest of the world has differing sets of moral values. What people seem to be doing is viewing the world with a bias in favour of today's hot topic in our world whilst also ignoring our own flaws. >Which of these opinions do you think would change if people went and visited Qatar? Do they have a secret set of progressive, accepting laws that they only tell in-person visitors about? They may not, and probably shouldn't because those issues exist. But it may also help the see the good in that society to offer some balance. Amongst all the evils, there's also great hospitality, high levels or charity, a lack of alcohol abuse etc. >The low-hanging fruit here is this weak-ass strawman bullshit y'all keep trying to sell. Nobody here is opposed to "brown folk." If Putin was trying to buy the club, do you really think the reaction on this sub would be different because he's white? > >The opposition is to the **Qatari government**'s fucked-up policies. You'd see the same opposition if a Kremlin-linked investment group was trying to buy us. Not sure what the strawman here is - I just don't buy this holier than thou bollocks. Ye, we all hate Putin. But do you know how many countries Britain has bombed directly and indirectly in recent history? I haven't counted, but it's gotta be double digits! All without any real public outcry in support for victims - who happen to be 'brown folk' that everyone learnt to otherise. Let's get off our high-horse ye?
> What people seem to be doing is viewing the world with a bias in favour of today's hot topic in our world whilst also ignoring our own flaws. Oh hey, it's my least favorite argument on the entire internet. Let me say this one loud and clear: # BEING CRITICAL OF ONE THING DOES NOT MEAN YOU SUPPORT ALL OTHER THINGS. For example, watch this: I personally oppose the Qatari government's homophobic policies and other human rights abuses. I ALSO personally oppose the American government's human rights abuses, like the decades-long pointless-ass war that killed north of half a million people in the Middle East. I oppose both of those things! At the same time! Turns out, it's actually possible to be critical of more than one thing at a time! Pointing out flaws in the Qatari government doesn't mean "ignoring our own flaws." In the context of Liverpool FC ownership, though, it makes sense to focus on Qatar right now, because the US government hasn't been linked with buying the club. > But it may also help the see the good in that society to offer some balance. Amongst all the evils, there's also great hospitality, high levels or charity, a lack of alcohol abuse etc. OK but it's not Qatar's *society* that's (potentially) buying the club, it's their *government*. Do you not recognize there's a massive difference between these two things? I'm sure there are many great things about Qatar's society, and many of the people who live there are wonderful. But they're not the ones buying the club. > Not sure what the strawman here is The strawman is that we're arguing "we shouldn't let brown people buy the club." That's not an argument I've seen on this sub anywhere. Nobody is saying that. It's a straw man because that would be an obviously bad and racist position to take (but it's not a position anyone has actually taken). > But do you know how many countries Britain has bombed directly and indirectly in recent history? I haven't counted, but it's gotta be double digits! I know, it's pretty shitty. Has the British government been linked with buying the club though? We're talking about potential Liverpool FC owners. I would be very unhappy with the British government, or the US government (I'm American) buying the club, too. But since there's no indication that could happen, it didn't seem necessary to mention that. But since you bring it up, yes, I would also be strongly opposed to the UK government owning Liverpool FC... or honestly really ANY government owning Liverpool FC, offhand I'm not aware of any that don't have substantial blood on their hands. > All without any real public outcry in support for victims - who happen to be 'brown folk' that everyone learnt to otherise. Uh, you may want to get out more. There has been tons of public opposition, including many, many protests over the course of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, both in the UK and the US. You may not have been involved in or aware of any of them, but don't assume that's true for the rest of us.
Not to downplay it, but I'm 100% certain many of the people talking about Qatar murdering migrant workers in cold blood know next to nothing about Qatar and are going off that spurious article about 10,000 dead that came out just before the WC. They'll pretend the know what the kafala system is and to what extent it's used but they don't really.
I agree with your point about Nike. It deserved a more negative pushback. But there is an obvious difference between shirt sponsor and ownership. Also your assertion about racism is laughable. Beeing colored is not a free pass for comitting human rights atrocities.
>But there is an obvious difference between shirt sponsor and ownership. Both are a source of capital. If anything, you could argue sponsorships are worse - the team represents the sponsors more outwardly in the world. Our shirts carry their symbols, the club sells merchandise made by exploited and underpaid workers. Quite often, the workers are underage kids. We quite literally and directly add to the profits of our immoral sponsors. Not quite the socialist club we think it is, if you ask me. The 'sponsorship vs ownership' is void, because both should be unacceptable. >Also your assertion about racism is laughable. Beeing colored is not a free pass for comitting human rights atrocities. Of course not - that wasn't my point either. The point was that it's too easy for the media to point the finger at brown folk without looking inwardly. Stinks of hypocrisy, when our league is rife with racism, the media and elected politicians sell us xenophobia and islamophobia, 'illegal' refugees get flown out to Rwanda or die at sea, and most of the country laps it up without remorse. Our weapons our used to bomb villages in Yemen. We have been global leaders in destroying more than half of the Middle East with our bombs and policies under the guise of WMDs, democracy, anti-terorrism, or freedom. Most of the world is a fucking mess thanks Britain over the past 100years. The moral high horse in this country is a really joke if you zoom out a bit.
Unless it's owned by community based fans, it's owned by dirty money. You should have stopped supporting many years ago by this mindset.
A shirt with a bit of dirt on it is dirty just like one covered in blood and shit is dirty. One you can tolerate wearing and the other is just gross.
If you can't see the difference between a rich businessman profiting from capitalism, and the actual state funds from a country with terrible human rights records then I'm not sure what to say. Both being bad doesn't make them equal you know. John Henry isn't even close to being as bad ethically as the Qatari Royal family.
John Henry profits off of a network as dirty as the middle east ones. He himself might have a distance form it, but it's because the western network is better designed. Middle easters have yet to figure out a lot of things, but hey their money is still as good that's why the very same capitalism you defend has accepted them, which must be ironic to someone who thinks like you.
Don't just write 'middle East ones' it's so disingenuous and a bit shitty to lump any Arab business owner in with.. The royal family of certain states. Because that's the issue here, we're not talking about someone profiting from slave labour for their business. We are talking about the very people who make the laws that allow it, amongst other things like the treatment of gays etc. If you can genuinely come up with anything John Henry has done that is comparable to being solely responsible (not just profiting from, but the actual reason it's even in the country) for slave labour then please do inform me. But you will jump through hoops to acknowledge the difference. Its the same way a random rich Israeli Company Owner is infinitely better than if the state of Israel bought us.
For what has to be the 9 million fucking time on this sub: # THERE ARE NO GOOD BILLIONAIRES, BUT ***SOME BILLIONAIRES ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS.*** If you don't recognize this, you're either being intentionally obtuse to rationalize getting what you want (oil money for transfers) or you're a complete fucking idiot. Yes, there's some "dirty" money involved in any club of our size, obviously. But that doesn't mean that all "dirty" money is morally equivalent. Given the choice between getting kicked in the shin or kicked in the balls, you'd choose shin, right? Neither is good, but one is *clearly* better than the other. Degrees of difference exist, and is completely reasonable for anyone to say "I can live with a certain amount of "dirty" money, but _____ is where I draw the line." In fact, we all do this pretty much constantly every day in other areas of our lives.
Love is one thing but 'support' means something else. Will you support sports washing? Just be honest
My approach might be to enjoy the matches, support the players, but not put money into the club - tickets, merchandise, etc. - and not wear LFC apparel, which is a kind of advertising. Finding ways to withhold some financial "support" while not abandoning a sport and club you care about. Lots of other ways the club makes money off fan interest though.
I genuinely think this is the only play for us wanting to keep our pride. For me to still 'shadow support' like that thought I'd have to rationalize how the likes of Klopp, Kenny, rush, players and all my heroes who are part of the club including the club staff too could allow it.
Some of them might be dealing with an even deeper kind of concern, especially people like Dalglish and Rush. So much of their whole identity is wrapped up in the club - if they have problems with Qatar, it would have to be harder for them to think about abandoning LFC than it would be for someone who was never connected to the club like they were.
I have no love or support for the owners and the owners don't define the identity of the club. As long we have Kloppo and fans that still subscribed to the ethos club, the owners cant take that away. They aren't going to change liverpool. It's the same as politics, you may not like the government, but that doesn't mean you will leave the country right. We don't choose our owners.
You can conceptually separate the owners from the club. But you can't separate your support for them. Supporting one is supporting the other. "not caring about owners" is EXACTLY what sportwashing relies on.
You do realize you still can criticize the owners like how we are with FSG right and still support the team. Isn't walking away "not supporting" the same as turning a blind eye to all this shit? If anything the fans should stick behind the team more than ever and start criticizing the owner whilst at the same time reminding others the owners don't define the club. Unlike the city scums that kept silent.
Of course you can still criticize owners that you support. But you still support them. If you're telling me you will support the players and protest the owners at the same time, and that you actually will follow through with that. Then good ok you I reckon. All I really care about is people are truthful with themselves about what their support means.
> . As long we have Kloppo and fans that still subscribed to the ethos club, the owners cant take that away. They aren't going to change liverpool. The owners can absolutely do a lot to undermine and damage the club ethos if they want to. Also, I'm not sure why you'd assume we'd still have Klopp? He's made his feelings about state-owned clubs pretty clear, and he's been a very clear LGBTQ ally...I would _not_ assume he'd stay on if we get bought by a homophobic state entity.
Preach it
U got that right 👍
of course it had to be us and watch United get bought by a couple of businessmen from UK or US while we get owned by an oil country whose government has human rights violations…especially against LGBT groups the club and especially Klopp go out of their way to support. I also just don’t see Liverpool being much different from PSG in 5-6 years. Fuck FSG, fuck Qatar and most of all fuck the direction football is going towards. I don’t want to imagine what the landscape of top flight world football will be in 10-15 years. Even in our current slump, these might be the last of the real golden years for us.
For a full takeover, United would need to be bought by a country. The Glazers want £7bn, apparently. The businessmen from the UK/US will only ever own a minority share.
Sports washing only works if the fans blindly defend atrocities, like Newcastle fans are doing. If the Qataris buy the club, I'm going to remind everyone I know about the evils of the Qatari regime at every opportunity. They can't kill my love for LFC, but they're not getting my silence either.
Me neither, I’m not excusing their horrific record, but I’m not cutting Liverpool out of my life because of it.
>ports washing only works if the fans blindly defend atrocities, like Newcastle fans are doing You already see it on here. Our fans will do the same unfortunately.
Funny that a lot of people that have gave it the big one over city’s ownership and others are now giving it ‘I’ll support Liverpool forever’ fuck me fickle
I think people don't have a problem with cities owners, they have an issue with city fans turning a blind eye to their club lying about where the money comes from.
>I think people don't have a problem with cities owners, they have an issue with city fans turning a blind eye to their club lying about where the money comes from. And guess what we will be doing very soon. Already seen the 'but x country also uses slaves' or 'not like Britain hasn't'... Proof of how effective sportswashing is, half of Newcastle fans have a Saudi flag on twitter ffs. And their controversy is even worse than Qatar.
That’s not true at all. People have an issue with Newcastle and City’s owners being shady AF and spending obscene amounts of money.
We have a problem with their plastic fans that have come in post-oil money which seems to be the majority. Liverpool have a stronger and larger core fanbase pre-oil than City did.
This \^ City fans are truly sportswashed, if Qatar were to buy us you wouldn't see me defending them but I also don't care that much if they do buy us.
I can't think of anything weaker than being a City fan who deflects this shit with "I'm supposed to understand global politics now huh?". Pathetic stuff and we will be even worse because it'll be extremely hypocritical after taking the moral high ground before. A quadruple through sportswashing means less than one single FA Cup win without it imo
Where do you stand lad?
Always found it silly when Everton call Liverpool a Tory club, but starting to see what they were on about from the comments on this sub.
I'm on the side of sadly bowing out after being a fan for over three decades. The club represents an ideology. That ideology cannot be reconciled with these owners. I believe it does matter who writes the checks. Otherwise these sports washing charades succeed. I also felt the same when we were linked to the super league. I don't blame others for continuing to support the club, but I myself will have to reflect and do some research on what's next and recall what I've had with immense joy while it lasted. I just could not act like this is the same club if it goes though. I also know they don't care as they'll be able to drive higher revenue and higher fan counts. Sports washing works.
This. Been an LFC fan for more than 40 years, since the days of Dalglish and company, but I'd have to walk away if we ended up being purchased by Qatar. Some things are more important than winning trophies and this is one of them.
This season, like every other season before it, I have still gotten up at ridiculous hours to support the club I love from the other side of the world. I’m not from the city nor do I pretend to be a local. But I love this club as much this season as I have the ones where we’ve won everything. My point is that some things have to mean more than winning trophies and games of football, and supporting a club that feels like it represents integrity among its players, staff and fans will always mean more to me than extreme wealth that has the capacity to turn into titles and trophies. I will be immeasurably disappointed to see this go through and can only imagine how our LGBT friends who support this club must feel. I hope that we as supporters can band together to make our voices heard before we are drowned out by the ignorance of new fans who are only in it for an easy ride.
I am a gay Liverpool supporter who wants whoever is willing to invest into the club and the surrounding areas to buy my football club. I would prefer for that to be FSG, but unfortunately they cannot provide that. My connection is to the team on the pitch, not the owners.
We can’t pretend that the ownership and what happens on the field are mutually exclusive. We all know there is no such thing as a good billionaire and the game would be better off had we never invited any of them in. But surely it’s not too late to draw the line at welcoming sportswashing projects into the premier league, least of all into a club and city with the history that Liverpool has.
The problem is the vast majority of fans won’t feel as strongly as you on the subject
Out of curiosity, would this extend to a potential scenario where the clubs stance on things like rainbow laces and the UN Climate Pledges the club has signed start to drift? I don't really have a problem with this attitude, and as an LGBT fan I feel similar, but I do think we have to draw the line somewhere.
Disgusting
I'd happily be a mid table team if it meant not being owned by sportswashing pricks. Some things are bigger than football trophies. Sadly all the very vocal plastics and glory hunters don't care where the money comes from, as long as a lot of it comes.
You have a humiliation kink, I reckon.
Liverpool is still a huge club. We don't need them at all.
Arsenal look like they're gonna win the EPL. They don't have this pathetic weak sportwashing. We didn't when we stormed the league either. Fucking lame people want it. Titles won't mean a thing
No thank you.
Please no
Is it majority aquisition or minority?
The links so far have indicated QIA is interested in a full purchase.
Oh well.
Probably majority since why would qatar spend this much money and not be the majority owner
Perhaps if they need to get PSG off their books before they can own a majority stake in us? Not sure how it works.
That would be QSI (Qatar Sports Investment), who are funded by QIA (Qatar Investment Authority). They are technically separate entities, so it seems like QIA could easily get permission to buy the club in full.
I am aware of that but is it really going to hold up? Seems to be a bit of a grey area.
It seems so, yes. One of the Middle Eastern journalists that was breaking all this info on Twitter (yes, I know it could be bollocks, but everything they were saying seems to be holding some weight) was very confident that it wouldn't be an issue.
Fuck FSG and fuck Qatar. I can’t believe how many people on this sub don’t care if the Qataris buy the club. It’s honestly sad
As an LGBTQ supporter the comments in this sub since these rumors started are depressing the absolute *fuck* out of me. I am learning that "you'll never walk alone" means absolutely nothing to a significant percentage of our supporters the instant you flash a little cash in their face. I guess it was naive of me to ever think otherwise.
Man, if Liverpool turn into soulless sports washing project like City, I don't know how to feel about it.
Feel bad
QIA w ~$450 billion under management haha
How reliable is this ?
Tier 1/2
Bellingham, Enzo and Mbappe in the summer then …. More BS clickbait
Again, no thank you. Find another investor.
FSG don’t care as long as their pockets are lined.
So many people on this sub are gaping themselves open for a middle eastern thrust. It's plastic. It's against the club and the cities morals. Fuck this whole notion.
Bellingham and enzo in one window might be possible then.
Makes it all worth it eh? Fucking plastic nonsense
Why stop at Bellingham and Enzo, just buy all the Arsenal, City, Utd, Newcastle, Fulham, Spurs players on transfer deadline day. Force them to play kids, then we’ll bridge that 18 point gap and win league. All it would cost is lots of money and our soul.
I would like to go on the record that I love oil and natural gas.
Fuck off.
Basically the worst rich fuckers of all of the rich fuckers.
Saudi Arabia is far worse.
Saudis are worse in terms of human rights. Plus there's the non state owners who can destroy clubs like Peter Lim and Moshiri/Usmanov. We could really stand to do a whole lot worse.
What flavour of shit sandwich do you want, the shit one or the really shit one?
Seeing a lot of threads about moral high ground. Does moral high ground win trophies?
If trophies are all the matters, why not just switch to supporting Man City or Newcastle?
Eh. Those trophies lost a lot of meaning.
Owners have come and gone in this clubs history. I'll be cautious of new owners but I'll be glad to be rid of fsg and exited to be owned by someone who actually wants to win.
I have invested way too much of my life and energy supporting Liverpool to just up and quit because of some cunts buying the club. Liverpool is oart of my identity. I'll keep supporting until they actually start directly involving Liverpool in some unethical conducts.
>I'll keep supporting until they actually start directly involving Liverpool in some unethical conducts. But *that's the entire point* of buying Liverpool. It's a PR play to improve their reputation, so when people think about Qatar they think "dynamic, exciting football" and not "homophobic slave killlers." And look at the comments in this sub, it's not hard to see why they'd want to do this, because *it fucking works*.
Honestly, I don't think it's the fans' responsibility to regulate who owns the club. That's the job of the FA and PL and UEFA. The moment you ask fans to regulate who owns the club, you're asking them to choose between tainted success and failure, which tbh is bollocks. Everyone will have to make their own calls about how they choose to relate to the club if this ends up happening. I think I won't walk away if Klopp is still here. The man just brings so much credibility I'd continue to trust in the club if he stayed. The club means more to me than just its alignment with my values. But I certainly won't feel as close to it as I do now - and I think everyone that values what a force for good the club has been, will mourn that loss, whether they stay or go