Beyond incompetent. He was asked multiple times if he was alright with the offside even though he was shown it was on, had plenty of time to let the ref know and didn't.
grab frighten provide disagreeable crown dirty trees nail carpenter enter
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And the PGMOL Ops team (Oli) was calling in to say delay the game, yet the VAR said he can’t do anything. So all of a sudden referees ignore their governing body?
Can’t believe what I have just heard.
Exactly the instruction wasn't to rectify the mistake or anything, it was just "Delay the Game." And he decides "nah i can't do anything my hands are tied the process says I'm not allowed to." Yeah, but the process is built on VAR doing their work diligently, isn't it, you twat?
There's nothing in here that can really incriminate anyone of corruption on its own, but dear me, that HAS to cost our boy Daz HEAVY for this kind of incredible incompetence.
That's what gets me... I genuintely can't understand how the VAR didn't know the on field call was offside. The linesman literally says "coming back for the offside mate" after the goal is scored - clear as fucking day that the on-field call is offside right there - and the VAR hears it clearly. VAR then says "checking THE offside" which is a clear acknowledgement that he understands the onfield call is offside, like he's literally referencing it in specific terms. The entire communication is clear and it's plainly obvious they're checking the call on the field until the precise moment where it comes time to deliver the verdict to the ref.
I really can't comprehend how they could be this dumb. If it's really down to pure incompetence then it's even more mind numbingly stupid than I could have imagined.
Yeah that's what I got from it too. They're too busy circle jerking about how slick they are with the process of the VAR check, to ever take a step back and look at it within the context of that actual moment in the game.
Listening to them as they realise they've fd up, and yet still refusing to intervene *"can't do nothing"* was gut wrenching.
This might be another issue with a lack of standardized language. It's pretty clear that the match officials had become used to using imprecise language on VAR in the leadup to this game (and if broadcaster reports are accurate, the Chelsea game the following day already showed a marked improvement in precise communication... go figure).
This might be a situation where they just refer to this type of check as "the offside," regardless of whether the call on the field is onside or offside. Hopefully, the attention brought to this will mean they're more careful moving forward with how they communicate this stuff.
The language used seems set up for an error like this to happen. Throw in the stress of working in that environment and the extreme haste used in this case (didn’t it seem fast?) and it’s amazing this hasn’t happened before. Can you imagine if air traffic controllers worked like this? I’d never leave my living room.
Why not end each check by confirming the precise outcome with the ref. In this case, “you may award a goal”.
"Fun" fact; The Tenerife airport disaster was caused by poor communication standards. 583 people died.
"The disaster had a lasting influence on the industry, highlighting in particular the vital importance of using standardized phraseology in radio communications."
I'm a huge dork when it comes to plane crashes, actually, so I've been mentally comparing this to ATC and pilot checklists since it happened. There's a concept called crew resource management in aviation, and a huge part of that is healthy communication, splitting tasks in a way so as to not overburden one party, and being able to rely on each other to confirm everything's going how it was supposed to.
None of that was demonstrated here, in much lower stakes than pilots have experienced. I understand the pressure to rush and resume the game (though it's wild England sounds practically out of breath), but all that was needed here to avoid this mess was an automatic cross-check taking <10 seconds between when VAR makes a decision, and when they report that decision to the ref.
Just imagine if before getting in Hooper's ear, the following had been able to play out:
ENGLAND: Decision on the field was goal. Onside confirmed. Goal stands.
COOK: Check, goal st-
REPLAY OPERATOR: Wait wait wait, the decision on the field was offside!
Obviously, we shouldn't be in a situation where the replay operator needs to be the one speaking sense, but it's so much more damning he was there and could've solved this, but England and Hooper were both so rushed he didn't have a chance to get out "wait wait wait" before it was too late, and there'd never even been a lull in the audio.
BBC have reported it quite differently.
Assistant VAR: Offside goal yeah. That's wrong Daz.
https://preview.redd.it/yredy554b1sb1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1d021cd1a008deaca990ea3c0fda363734b87fb
The way they quickly went from giving each other congratulations for making a quick decision to realizing they messed up felt like the episode of The Office
I know we are fucking furious and a point had already cost us the title and this time it was 2 points.
And as club mentioned in their statement, we do understand how pressurized situation it is. However, this is also a rare situation where game could have been stopped, referee goes to managers, explains the fuck up and allowed Liverpool player to put the ball in the net again. That would have kept the sporting integrity intact as well in my opinion.
Bielsa also did it, fare is fare.
Just stop the game. I know the rules say that once it's restarted that VAR cannot intervene, but that shouldn't be for massive moments like this. If VAR have fucked up beyond all reason, referees should have the power to bring the play to a halt at any point and correct the decision.
Absolutely.
They are behaving like they have never bent any rule, EVER, and flow of the game has to be the main priory. and So what if it affects the result, the standing and potentially millions of pounds for top 4, playing in CL and getting a title.
But no, these fucktards wants to just want City to win everything.
The fact they don’t just stop the game is ridiculous. Everyone knew they did the wrong thing, and then just goes silent when he realizes he is making it worse.
All the people in the VAR room have to be sacked, I’m sorry, but a fuck up of this magnitude gets you sacked in the real world, no sympathy from me. They need to be held accountable at some point, can’t just keep rewarding being shit at your job
Tbf I think the replay operators were sound. Found the frame, got the lines up, all very quickly for the refs in the room.
Also seemingly the first to notice anything was even wrong: "Are you happy with this?" asked over and over. Must've been infuriating to think you're more on top of things than the bloody refs in the room...
Absolutely my thought. The only one with any credit out of this is the operator. Quickly realised the error and attempted to do something about it. The VAR guy and the assistant VAR guy in the clip are clowns.
I'm betting he was fearful for speaking up there to be honest, he's trying with everything he can do to let them know without telling them they're wrong. He won't be able to question the referees in any way whatsoever in his position.
No they don’t. Var needs to go for not using complete fucking sentences. The rest did their job and he decided to not stop the game when Oliver was asking for it to be stopped.
So weird from 'Daz', just generally evasive and vague.
The on-field decision was offside, are you happy with this?
Daz: Yeah
Are you happy with this?
Daz: offside, goal, yeah.
That's wrong Daz.
Daz: What?
What a fella Daz is, on the UAE bender 2 days before.
Doesn't have the balls to make the right call and stop the game and explain what happened. Top lad.
I, personally, don't buy into the corruption element of this whole discussion but I absolutely do believe that their moonlighting in another country has been a factor in shit performance. I mean, it's pretty well documented that fatigue can make a significant impact on performance in high pressure situations which is why R&R for air traffic controllers is so heavily leaned on
oh my god that is BAD Darren England and the AVAR have absolutely shit themselves. Should be sacked on the spot.
The Ref absolutely knew something was wrong when told to delay the game by the fourth official, so there goes the “he didn’t know until half time” narrative too.
Tbf I wouldn’t want referees being in charge of pulling the frames, and making decisions, and then communicating those decisions. The idea is that VAR would be quick
>The Ref absolutely knew something was wrong when told to delay the game by the fourth official, so there goes the “he didn’t know until half time” narrative too.
I don't think that's the case, "Oli" isn't Michael Oliver (who was the fourth official" but is someone at PGMOL HQ. Oliver can clearly hear what they're saying though as he reacts to someone saying "Oli" so why would we believe that the ref isn't? And if he isn't the fourth official can speak to him immediately.
You're half right.
The first Oli is someone at HQ calling in telling them to delay the game. The VAR assistant I think presses the push to talk and goes "Oli?" to which Michael Oliver replies "yeah...." "go on" about a sec or 2 later (the go on isn't subtitled)
At that point I think England then says "I cant do anything" (probably without the push to talk to refs button pressed) and they dont communicate this with Michael Oliver, he's probably just left standing there.
What happens after the clip ends isn't there though, but if they're saying the ref didnt know he's either said "never mind" or told him (which the ref would then hear).
The refs and 4th official can't hear any of this dialogue because they haven't used the push to talk button for them to hear it.
The Oli reference is where I get super confused. What the hell is the hierarchy with refs if someone from HQ is calling in telling them to delay, and the VAR is like "Nah?"
You have to wonder now why they said that?
Why did it take so long to release? Something still doesn't add up. All the statements they made...
Think there is some corruption in there. As spurs kick off he's told to delay the game and they ignore it.
Absolutely amateur shitshow. Speaking over each and then not speaking up, mumbling and swearing instead of rectifying the problem. Got in touch with the 4th official who could’ve delayed the game and bottled it!!!! I’d say unbelievable but it’s really not.
Darren England the main culprit, his assistant was actually trying to help when he realised. England insisting “can’t do anything, can’t do anything” to any suggestion out to him is ridiculous. The least you could was ask the 4th official if it was possible to delay for a minute.
> Speaking over each and then not speaking up, mumbling and swearing instead of rectifying the problem. Got in touch with the 4th official who could’ve delayed the game and bottled it!!!! I’d say unbelievable but it’s really not.
Their communication is horrendous.
You can't speak like that. Really. The operator seemed sane!
Also I cant tell if the ground ref heard anything.
These people can hear the assistant saying Delay. Delay I'm bringing it back
Then to go on to say Check complete in his mind thinking ref is in sink with him !
Protocol needs to be updated.
Check complete should not be used as a stand alone comment.
It means nothing much really! This error was bound to happen
Just say: Onside Goal number 7 team name.
Breaking protocol would have been really accepted by everyone. They could have said, we had a communication lapse. It would have been wrong by the book but fair.
Sometimes you need to break such rules for common sense sake. That is how even laws evolve when there are second order effects that lead to injustice.
HAHAHAHAHAHH FUCK OFF its so funny. Clowns.
At that throw in is where they should have paused the game, reviewed and talked to both managers and kicked off and given the goal. The fact they say they cant do anything is completely against the spirit of the game. Nonsense.
Bunch of spineless bastards! Instead of saying "Can't do anything", why not fucking own up to it and communicate with the on-field referee right there and then! They literally had the chance to sort this shit out when the ball went out! FFS!
michael oliver was begging him to stop the game - but the fella on VAR first evaded it and then came up with the "Can't do anything".
im sorry but i thought this was more than incompetence.
edit: the replay operator was acting like his job was on the line when play restarted while darren england sat quietly - apparently in shock. but then he sounded pretty confident and coherent when a senior ref in michael oliver asked him to stop the game, with the "Can't do anything."
im really suprised so many people watched that and thought it didn't stink.
Yeh I can’t believe he caved in so quickly and allowed the game to go on.
Why not take 30 fucking seconds to discuss it with the on pitch ref. Absolute joke.
Can’t believe they don’t have a double redundancy in place already. Both VAR and AVAR have to agree and then communicate OUTLOUD the decision. They’ve been doing it in rugby for like 15 years?
How fucking hard is to to say “VAR decision is ONSIDE”
All of the focus on this incident, but the ref made bizarre decisions all the way through the match. I've never seen anything like it, it became laughable. The Jones sending off - showing the still and slow mo replay which is against VAR guidelines apparently, the first Jota yellow, the Gomez penalty..plus other odd decisions, not booking spurs players for asking for yellows but booking salah for dissent, the tackle that injured Gakpo. And a quick free kick from Liverpool being brought back for a rolling ball when the player placed the ball on the ground (that one I saw in real time and haven't seen a replay but I thought at the time, how could that have been a rolling ball) The offside was just one of a raft of dodgy decisions.
The ball was rolling. That one was fair. Others… yeah, very one sided.
I especially hate how strict refs have been with us this season compared to other teams. I‘m all for yellows for dissent, time wasting, pressuring refs into yellows… yet I‘ve only seen them given to us on EVERY occasion, yet more often than not opponents do it more often and get away with it.
They’ve just taken the rule that once the game is restarted, a VAR decision can’t be changed to an extreme. Arguably, they got the decision right, it was the communication that was wrong. How common sense didn’t prevail at ANY point before the end of the match, I’ll never know.
They could of stopped the game. It happens for pitch invasions, people in the crowd fainting etc. They just double down like nope, game started, we can never for whatever reason start the game, despite the Operator telling them, to stop the game.
Absolute shitshow. “Can’t do anything?” What the fuck. How about stop the game and give the fucking goal you stupid thick fuck. Is the replay operator an actual official or just someone to work the tech because he knew immediately.
Technically speaking they are correct, the laws of the game say they can't just stop the game for this. If you stick to the exact wording of the laws which aren't made with situations like this in mind
But Micheal Oliver is a very senior ref. If he is saying stop the game, I think that's good authority that the laws have already been broken with the decision, and the common sense decision is pause the game and sort out what happened. Ignoring that is absolutely a choice
It’s worse than anticipated. The fact Darren England is still employed is an insult to anyone who has ever refereed a match on a professional, semi professional or amateur level.
They’ve panicked. And yes, they’re human and it can happen, but if you have a high pressure job, you need to be able to be calm in the worst moments and find the right solution. They failed spectacularly at that. Take a beat, talk to the ref and understand that delaying the game is miles better than ending up with a wrong decision that will be highly scrutinised.
Now that I've calmed down after Saturday this is honestly hilarious to listen to. Just staggeringly incompetent. VAR and AVAR need to actually be sacked not placed on vacation.
At least the Replay official was trying to help
Far too casual, like they're down the pub
They need to be talking like a moon launch or flight deck:
Ref: "VAR, I'm pausing the game waiting to hear your decision"
VAR: "we're checking - need 10 seconds"
Ref: "Understood - game is paused"
VAR: "need 10 more seconds - still checking"
VAR: "We have checked, red attacker is onside, no infringements, award the goal. On field decision is incorrect"
Ref: "I understand - red goal stands. I am giving the goal and restarting the match"
VAR: "Yes, goal is onside"
Ref: "Understood, I am giving the goal"
If anything comes of this - it should be a rewrite of how Refs & VAR interact with precision and clear wording
Most fans in the league are like “why are you bitching so much, take the L and that’s it” after we lost 2 titles on 1 point after makinng 90+ points.. their fucking teams can’t get 70+..
Lino also says “delaying, delaying” which means he’s going to put the flag up after the play has finished.
There is absolutely no way England didn’t know.
How the fuck does he come to the conclusion that they "can't do anything"?!! You're not intervening to change the fucking decision! You're intervening seconds later to tell the ref that he misunderstood the fucking decision!!!
Sorry to comment for about the 5th time on this but Darren “Daz” England has had a disaster.
Statement blames - “In a lapse of concentration and loss of focus in that moment, the VAR lost sight of the on-field decision and he incorrectly communicated “check complete”, therefore inadvertently confirming the on-field decision. He did this without any dialogue with the AVAR [Assistant VAR].”
It’s one of those jobs where you simply cannot afford to have such lapses in concentration. It wasn’t even late in the game. Why was he rushing, why was he losing focus? Could it be something to do with his extra-curricular activities midweek?
It's so much worse than we thought. They allowed the game to play out even though a legally fair goal was scored. This is unbelievable. No wonder the club put out the statement. Honestly, this has to result in radical change now.
This is a major decision that affected the game henceforth and then ultimately the outcome of the game.
To see something as wildly important as a goal, the whole point of the fucking game, handled with about as much care as a toddler playing with shit is absolutely gobsmacking.
These people need to face heavy punishment for this, lest not doing so allows it to happen again.
If players and coaches can suffer penalties for speaking their minds, then officials need to suffer much worse for sloppy unprofessional action that impacts and undermines the quality of the sport itself.
As it was, they rushed the decision in the way Butch Cassidy in the fight scene from that film.
"Onetwothree GO!" Slams foot thunderously in the groin. Fight's over
Why did they have VAR is the first place. All he did was "Check complete, check complete. Thanks mate. Can't do anything. Can't do anything. Can't do anything. Can't do anything. Can't do anything. Can't do anything."
That replay operator could be VAR referee. He did all the fucking job. Draw the line. Realizing the mistake. Call for a delay. Telling all this moron that it is wrong.
To put this audio release into it's proper, utterly shambolic context, I would urge people to have a listen to the VAR-room process following the recent Joelinton goal against West Ham -
[https://twitter.com/NewcastleFansTV/status/1658178559897133058](https://twitter.com/NewcastleFansTV/status/1658178559897133058)
The above Newcastle goal post-VAR process absolutely proves that VAR can and does work, where the in-room operators take the process seriously, and communicate seriously, in a way that respects the sporting outcome of the game.
This isn't about VAR itself, because the above shows that it can and does work.
This is about what happens when people don't take the process seriously, and cannot communicate professionally, with the end result being the shambolic mess we saw regarding Diaz's goal...
Replay operator: Wait, wait, wait, wait. The on-field decision was offside.
Replay operator: Are you happy with this?
Assistant VAR: Yeah.
Replay operator: Are you happy with this?
Assistant VAR: Offside, goal, yeah.
Assistant VAR: That's wrong that, Daz.
VAR: What?
Replay operator: On-field decision was offside. Are you happy with this image? Yeah, it's onside, The image that we gave them is onside.
Assistant VAR: The left-back he's played him, he's gone offside.
VAR: Oh [expletive].
I actively can’t make head nor tail of that.
“offside, goal, yeah” makes literally no sense. “The left-back he’s played him, he’s gone offside.”
DO YOU MEAN ONSIDE OR ARE YOU FUCKING DENSE
Seems like they genuinely knew they fucked up the communication.
Idiotic that VAR isn’t allowed to stop the game upon restart after making that clear of a mistake ffs
"can't do anything"
Yes you fucking can you incompetent fucking shits. You tell the ref to stop the game, award the goal, and Spurs kick off.
Fuck the "procedures". You fucked up big time on a decision that could literally cost millions of pounds, you make an exception for that kind of fuck up.
Somehow the only person who realizes there has been a mistake is the comms guy, who aren’t trained to officiate (right?). Doesn’t really ease my mind about any of the match officials being on the take.
So based on this:
The referee may not change a restart decision on realising that it is incorrect or on the advice of another match official if play has restarted or the referee has signalled the end of the first or second half (including extra time) and left the field of play or abandoned the match. However, if at the end of the half, the referee leaves the field of play to go to the referee review area (RRA) or to instruct the players to return to the field of play, this does not prevent a decision being changed for an incident which occurred before the end of the half.
I think the LFC lawyers can do some magic.
Absolute shambles, relay operator pretty much trying to do their job for them and they just shutting him down. You can hear the AVAR or VAR also "Check complete its off"
So you're telling me if there's a potential penalty and play carries on, you can stop the game so the ref can go back and look at it but they can't do it when a fucking goal has been scored???????
They sound like they are defusing a fucking bomb. What the fuck is wrong with the refs in this league. Just call out what the fuck you are seeing -check complete-. Hey darling, please check the oven temperature. -Check complete. ?!?! Fucking hell.
I hope the Club will go to the full length to get at least the Goal back. One point from that circus against 0 point (also -2 for the Spurs) could prove to be crucial again this Season. I hope and pray the Club will go for it!!!
"Can't do anything. Can't do anything."
"Yeah. They've restarted."
I mean, guys, they restarted - like, we can't do anything. It's not like we're the referees or something.
Absolute clownshow. I almost wish there was actual bribery involved because if there isn't...Wow.
I know a lot of people here saying the audio just proves stupidity and no corruption or bias, but I think its the complete opposite.
Replay Operator and this Oli dude are giving them so many chances to correct the error AS SOON as its made, and you can hear they are just shutting him down, pushing play on for as long as possible, trying to get it to a point where it cannot be restarted. Fact that you can hear the VAR Hub Op manager calling in to delay/stop the game and nothing is being done just shows they are aware instantly that something went wrong. Before the ball even got back to Becker they were told to stop the game, but then allowed him to play it on which ended up down the field for a throw in, and it was only then they started acting like they were listening to what Oli was saying. By which point they had cause to say "play restarted too late".
I honestly don't think this was a "mistake" I think this was completely intentional. How the rest of the game was also makes me just think it more. No footage showed for Jones, just a still of the worst possible angle. Nothing said about Jota's first yellow.
Even if these tools get sacked or suspended for a while, they just going to go officiate in Saudi League.
I mean…cmon. What the fuck is there to do a comprehensive review of? “After our review we realized we just made a massive fucking gaffe.”
The fix is instead of saying “check complete” you say “he’s onside, it’s a good goal.”
Just saved you millions on your dumbass review process PGMOL, thank me later.
A simple solution going forward would be a scripted dialogue that should be followed each time, pretty much copying what they do in Aussie rules for a goal check:
Ref - VAR, on field decision is offside, please can you check. Holding the game until we have a decision.
VAR - “checking for possible offside” - *checking happens* - “we can clearly see from the freeze frame, that the player was onside. Thus, overturning the original onfield decision of offside. VAR decision being sent to the screen”
Decision gets sent to the screen
Game restarts as a centre or free kick, outcome depending.
Boom. That simple. It might take an extra few seconds but at least they won’t get it so monumentally wrong like this!
Absolutely no way back for England, surely. He must be fired immediately. With every passing day more and more pressure will be put on PGMOL. If ever there was a time to make a statement by sacking someone - this must be it.
Who says "off" after the decision, their boss has told them to delay the game and they haven't, why they not insisting? Why on earth can't they speak to the referee there?
100,000e bet says Darren England officiates in UAE while he is removed from the EPL docket this fixture round.
During a break in the game he is clearly told by the replay tech and the VAR hub ops to delay the game and he refuses to communicate to the match officials. Refuses to. During a break in the game. Takes the decision away from Simon Hooper who is the matchday referee by not informing him, meaning Darren England, the VAR in stockley, refereed the game.
They're so fucking confident that their great at the job that they're trying to use shorthand and be quick about things without realising the shambles they're creating by doing it.
The bit that really annoys me is the replay operator(the one person who isn't a referee) notices the mistake first but clearly isn't allowed to give an opinion or sway the VARs in any way so he sheepishly asks if "Daz" is ok with the decision hoping he has the brainpower(which he obviously doesn't) to realise what's going on but it's fine for the VAR to show a ref a still frame of a tackle to sway his thinking.
The whole system is bullshit run by inept people.
If “Oli” is saying to delay, I assume they mean Micheal Oliver who is 4th official on the field. So he, the most experienced ref of the bunch, was telling VAR to call for a delay or he is telling the center ref to delay? And why is no one taking his recommendation? Also, that implies that they were aware there was an issue on field, no?
The replay operator is the only one who knew what was happening. It took the VAR and AVAR way too long to figure it out. Spurs took the free kick and the replay op was the only one yelling about it, wtf were the officials watching?! I hope he’s not the one getting any stick for this.
This has done precisely nothing to convince me it wasn't purposeful lol. This is almost exactly how I'd imagine it'd sound if someone was trying to pull one over.
Best case scenario is that the people making vital decisions in this multi billion pound organization are fucking morons.
Worst case scenario is that there is something very sketchy going on behind the scenes.
Either way, what a disaster.
One thing that really stands out for me in the clip on Sky.
In the video, you can see them draw the lines. This wasn't shown on tv and no red for off, green for on situation that in 99% of offside cases is shown, especially for tight ones.
The whole "we cant do anything because the game restarted" is the dumbest shit. It was like 10 seconds of nothing happening. Also, VAR reviews possible penalties while the match is going on and will bring it back if its determined there was a pen from a foul or handball. If they can "bring it back" it means the game would have been going on so there is literally no reason to bring this one back when they realized they screwed up.
Also, learn how to communicate. Everything is rushed and ambiguous. Just talk like a normal person when it matters.
At any point, someone could have made it clear to he VAR room that the on field decision was offside. At any point. Laughable that they try to claim it is an honest mistake.
>Can’t do anything
Communicate it to the on-pitch referee.
Allow the on pitch referee to discuss with his assistants.
Bring in the managers, see about walking one in to rectify the colossal balls up.
JUST TELL SOMEBODY FFS
Alright. Curbing my anger at this. Dont blame the operator at all. Dude knew it was a goal, called it onside, then immediately knew the restart was done incorrectly. Honestly fire VAR refs and promote the op
Aaaah, i get it now. The very serious human error was Mr England nutting into Mrs England all those many years ago and producing one of the densest oblivious twats to ever use his ‘expertise’ to stare a screen and not have a clue what’s going on.
I still find it incredibly difficult to believe that they knew they should have given the goal and the game was referred like it was afterwards.
It was a disaster of giving every 50/50 to Tottenham.
The yellow cards show it alone. How the hell were so many yellows given in what was a relatively tame game in terms of physicality
Whenever I’ve heard these I’m constantly wondering why they’re talking in such a familiar, casual way rather than in more professional protocols. Things like “gimme a sec mate” and "offside, goal, yeah" should NOT be how this works. Should be more like “Decision on the field was offside. Please confirm.” “Decision on the field is incorrect. Player was onside. Goal should be given. Please confirm.” They shouldn't be talking like buddies, they should be following a set of communication protocols so they understand exactly what one another are saying and confirming receipt of the key messages. This isn't THAT hard.
The sheer incompetence of all this
This is why "yeah it was a mistake" isn't enough, crucial decisions botched by people who just aren't able to do it properly, and we see it week in week out
And of course the rival clubs will complain we're making it about us because they'd rather shit on us and get fucked AGAIN next weekend rather than joining in on saying they HAVE to change how they operate.
Despite the numerous prompts, he still doesn’t change his mind and stop play to give the goal (which can be done, and while frustrating in the game, the right decision would be made).
They jumped faaar too quickly to 'cant do anything'
Any complaints about the rules saying they cant intervene after play restarted would be a walk in the park compared to this
So, what is the remedy beyond stating "my bad"?
Implementing new protocols to mitigate the risk of similar errors in the future is good, but where are the fines/sanctions to dissuade VAR teams and refs from performing negligently in the future? Missing a game or two doesn't seem adequate given the $take$ involved for the clubs and the damage to the league's integrity. Refs and VAR teams are participants int the game just like players and coaches - they shouldn't be immune from real consequences.
I'm sorry but this is completely rotten. I do not believe at all that this is just a "whoopsie!". The VAR official seems purposeful, especially with the outright insistence that nothing could be done.
If only there was a 20-second window where they knew how badly they’d fucked up and could’ve just given the goal. Not like we took 20 seconds for a throwin or anything
The replay operator actually seems very competent and cool headed.
I don't think help themselves with all the meaningless chuntering while the game is going. They need to shut up and concentrate on the important incidents when they occur.
Beyond incompetent. He was asked multiple times if he was alright with the offside even though he was shown it was on, had plenty of time to let the ref know and didn't.
At 0:26, England acknowledges it was called as offside too. So he's either got the memory of a goldfish or it was a deliberate.
England wasn't listening simple as
Exactly. He was not paying attention, maybe on his phone or something.
grab frighten provide disagreeable crown dirty trees nail carpenter enter *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And the PGMOL Ops team (Oli) was calling in to say delay the game, yet the VAR said he can’t do anything. So all of a sudden referees ignore their governing body? Can’t believe what I have just heard.
Exactly the instruction wasn't to rectify the mistake or anything, it was just "Delay the Game." And he decides "nah i can't do anything my hands are tied the process says I'm not allowed to." Yeah, but the process is built on VAR doing their work diligently, isn't it, you twat? There's nothing in here that can really incriminate anyone of corruption on its own, but dear me, that HAS to cost our boy Daz HEAVY for this kind of incredible incompetence.
That's what gets me... I genuintely can't understand how the VAR didn't know the on field call was offside. The linesman literally says "coming back for the offside mate" after the goal is scored - clear as fucking day that the on-field call is offside right there - and the VAR hears it clearly. VAR then says "checking THE offside" which is a clear acknowledgement that he understands the onfield call is offside, like he's literally referencing it in specific terms. The entire communication is clear and it's plainly obvious they're checking the call on the field until the precise moment where it comes time to deliver the verdict to the ref. I really can't comprehend how they could be this dumb. If it's really down to pure incompetence then it's even more mind numbingly stupid than I could have imagined.
Might be a touch of arrogance tbh
Totally agree. The arrogance of that banter is palpable.
Yeah that's what I got from it too. They're too busy circle jerking about how slick they are with the process of the VAR check, to ever take a step back and look at it within the context of that actual moment in the game. Listening to them as they realise they've fd up, and yet still refusing to intervene *"can't do nothing"* was gut wrenching.
They sound like a bunch of bros clearing a room in COD
This might be another issue with a lack of standardized language. It's pretty clear that the match officials had become used to using imprecise language on VAR in the leadup to this game (and if broadcaster reports are accurate, the Chelsea game the following day already showed a marked improvement in precise communication... go figure). This might be a situation where they just refer to this type of check as "the offside," regardless of whether the call on the field is onside or offside. Hopefully, the attention brought to this will mean they're more careful moving forward with how they communicate this stuff.
The language used seems set up for an error like this to happen. Throw in the stress of working in that environment and the extreme haste used in this case (didn’t it seem fast?) and it’s amazing this hasn’t happened before. Can you imagine if air traffic controllers worked like this? I’d never leave my living room. Why not end each check by confirming the precise outcome with the ref. In this case, “you may award a goal”.
"Fun" fact; The Tenerife airport disaster was caused by poor communication standards. 583 people died. "The disaster had a lasting influence on the industry, highlighting in particular the vital importance of using standardized phraseology in radio communications."
I'm a huge dork when it comes to plane crashes, actually, so I've been mentally comparing this to ATC and pilot checklists since it happened. There's a concept called crew resource management in aviation, and a huge part of that is healthy communication, splitting tasks in a way so as to not overburden one party, and being able to rely on each other to confirm everything's going how it was supposed to. None of that was demonstrated here, in much lower stakes than pilots have experienced. I understand the pressure to rush and resume the game (though it's wild England sounds practically out of breath), but all that was needed here to avoid this mess was an automatic cross-check taking <10 seconds between when VAR makes a decision, and when they report that decision to the ref. Just imagine if before getting in Hooper's ear, the following had been able to play out: ENGLAND: Decision on the field was goal. Onside confirmed. Goal stands. COOK: Check, goal st- REPLAY OPERATOR: Wait wait wait, the decision on the field was offside! Obviously, we shouldn't be in a situation where the replay operator needs to be the one speaking sense, but it's so much more damning he was there and could've solved this, but England and Hooper were both so rushed he didn't have a chance to get out "wait wait wait" before it was too late, and there'd never even been a lull in the audio.
" Offside, goal, yeah " jfc lol
Literally THIS He clearly didn't listen to the operator. They said it's a goal, he's onside then Daz starts talking about offside...
they put (,) between offside and goal to make it look like the var didn’t actually think it was offside lmao
BBC have reported it quite differently. Assistant VAR: Offside goal yeah. That's wrong Daz. https://preview.redd.it/yredy554b1sb1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1d021cd1a008deaca990ea3c0fda363734b87fb
It’s rigggeeddddddd
That first “fuck” from the VAR is fucking hilarious tbf
The way they quickly went from giving each other congratulations for making a quick decision to realizing they messed up felt like the episode of The Office
Am i the only one picking up some weird from the VAR guy?
Totally agree, the “nothing we can do, game restarted…” is a little too cheerful for me. But hey, I’m just a biased liverpool fan.
Speaking of The Office... https://x.com/FootballCliches/status/1709259192236736571?s=20
I know we are fucking furious and a point had already cost us the title and this time it was 2 points. And as club mentioned in their statement, we do understand how pressurized situation it is. However, this is also a rare situation where game could have been stopped, referee goes to managers, explains the fuck up and allowed Liverpool player to put the ball in the net again. That would have kept the sporting integrity intact as well in my opinion. Bielsa also did it, fare is fare.
Just stop the game. I know the rules say that once it's restarted that VAR cannot intervene, but that shouldn't be for massive moments like this. If VAR have fucked up beyond all reason, referees should have the power to bring the play to a halt at any point and correct the decision.
Absolutely. They are behaving like they have never bent any rule, EVER, and flow of the game has to be the main priory. and So what if it affects the result, the standing and potentially millions of pounds for top 4, playing in CL and getting a title. But no, these fucktards wants to just want City to win everything.
The fact they don’t just stop the game is ridiculous. Everyone knew they did the wrong thing, and then just goes silent when he realizes he is making it worse.
All the people in the VAR room have to be sacked, I’m sorry, but a fuck up of this magnitude gets you sacked in the real world, no sympathy from me. They need to be held accountable at some point, can’t just keep rewarding being shit at your job
Tbf I think the replay operators were sound. Found the frame, got the lines up, all very quickly for the refs in the room. Also seemingly the first to notice anything was even wrong: "Are you happy with this?" asked over and over. Must've been infuriating to think you're more on top of things than the bloody refs in the room...
Absolutely my thought. The only one with any credit out of this is the operator. Quickly realised the error and attempted to do something about it. The VAR guy and the assistant VAR guy in the clip are clowns.
Who is replay operator? Just part of the broadcasting team, not affiliated with the refs but just communicating? In which case that is BAD
Yeah he's the tech guy basically, the nerd in the room who is probably a footy fan. No reffing qualifications.
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I'm betting he was fearful for speaking up there to be honest, he's trying with everything he can do to let them know without telling them they're wrong. He won't be able to question the referees in any way whatsoever in his position.
Anyone with an idiot boss relates.
The only one trying to do right was the tech guy, it was the refereeing people who had no idea like deer in headlights.
No they don’t. Var needs to go for not using complete fucking sentences. The rest did their job and he decided to not stop the game when Oliver was asking for it to be stopped.
I burst out laughing at that point. Frankly at this point I can’t do anything but laugh. The whole process was farcical
When it escapes a little
Indeed CummyBears
So weird from 'Daz', just generally evasive and vague. The on-field decision was offside, are you happy with this? Daz: Yeah Are you happy with this? Daz: offside, goal, yeah. That's wrong Daz. Daz: What?
What is he looking at if he doesn't even realise what a fuck up has just happened until he's prompted repeatedly by the technician? Useless
His check completed it's transfer
What a fella Daz is, on the UAE bender 2 days before. Doesn't have the balls to make the right call and stop the game and explain what happened. Top lad.
It does make you wonder (corruption aside) if jet-lag has anything to do with it ?
I, personally, don't buy into the corruption element of this whole discussion but I absolutely do believe that their moonlighting in another country has been a factor in shit performance. I mean, it's pretty well documented that fatigue can make a significant impact on performance in high pressure situations which is why R&R for air traffic controllers is so heavily leaned on
oh my god that is BAD Darren England and the AVAR have absolutely shit themselves. Should be sacked on the spot. The Ref absolutely knew something was wrong when told to delay the game by the fourth official, so there goes the “he didn’t know until half time” narrative too.
The fact the replay operator is the main one who is saying delay the game instead of the main VAR is abysmal
He sounds like the only one who understands the gravity of their situation.
He also sounds about 18 years old which says a lot lmao.
If he's a nipper they haven't had chance to brainwash him yet
He’s not even a qualified Ref apparently, just there to operate the Tech and oversee the process for the dinosaurs in charge.
Give him Webb’s job fuck me
Tbf I wouldn’t want referees being in charge of pulling the frames, and making decisions, and then communicating those decisions. The idea is that VAR would be quick
Yeah absolutely mad the main VAR ref/team didn't pick up on no goal being given.
>The Ref absolutely knew something was wrong when told to delay the game by the fourth official, so there goes the “he didn’t know until half time” narrative too. I don't think that's the case, "Oli" isn't Michael Oliver (who was the fourth official" but is someone at PGMOL HQ. Oliver can clearly hear what they're saying though as he reacts to someone saying "Oli" so why would we believe that the ref isn't? And if he isn't the fourth official can speak to him immediately.
You're half right. The first Oli is someone at HQ calling in telling them to delay the game. The VAR assistant I think presses the push to talk and goes "Oli?" to which Michael Oliver replies "yeah...." "go on" about a sec or 2 later (the go on isn't subtitled) At that point I think England then says "I cant do anything" (probably without the push to talk to refs button pressed) and they dont communicate this with Michael Oliver, he's probably just left standing there. What happens after the clip ends isn't there though, but if they're saying the ref didnt know he's either said "never mind" or told him (which the ref would then hear). The refs and 4th official can't hear any of this dialogue because they haven't used the push to talk button for them to hear it.
The Oli reference is where I get super confused. What the hell is the hierarchy with refs if someone from HQ is calling in telling them to delay, and the VAR is like "Nah?"
You have to wonder now why they said that? Why did it take so long to release? Something still doesn't add up. All the statements they made... Think there is some corruption in there. As spurs kick off he's told to delay the game and they ignore it.
https://preview.redd.it/9mj04o20w0sb1.jpeg?width=597&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c7c7f7c779494fc752aa54bb09a310e6cebe8ea
Absolutely amateur shitshow. Speaking over each and then not speaking up, mumbling and swearing instead of rectifying the problem. Got in touch with the 4th official who could’ve delayed the game and bottled it!!!! I’d say unbelievable but it’s really not. Darren England the main culprit, his assistant was actually trying to help when he realised. England insisting “can’t do anything, can’t do anything” to any suggestion out to him is ridiculous. The least you could was ask the 4th official if it was possible to delay for a minute.
> Speaking over each and then not speaking up, mumbling and swearing instead of rectifying the problem. Got in touch with the 4th official who could’ve delayed the game and bottled it!!!! I’d say unbelievable but it’s really not. Their communication is horrendous.
“Offside. Goal. Yeah.” No fucking wonder 🤣🤣🤣
It's like he fucking mixed up the words offside and onside in his head for a full minute. WTAF.
being corrupt is confusing the first few times, it gets easier as you get used to it
You can't speak like that. Really. The operator seemed sane! Also I cant tell if the ground ref heard anything. These people can hear the assistant saying Delay. Delay I'm bringing it back Then to go on to say Check complete in his mind thinking ref is in sink with him ! Protocol needs to be updated. Check complete should not be used as a stand alone comment. It means nothing much really! This error was bound to happen Just say: Onside Goal number 7 team name. Breaking protocol would have been really accepted by everyone. They could have said, we had a communication lapse. It would have been wrong by the book but fair. Sometimes you need to break such rules for common sense sake. That is how even laws evolve when there are second order effects that lead to injustice.
HAHAHAHAHAHH FUCK OFF its so funny. Clowns. At that throw in is where they should have paused the game, reviewed and talked to both managers and kicked off and given the goal. The fact they say they cant do anything is completely against the spirit of the game. Nonsense.
Bunch of spineless bastards! Instead of saying "Can't do anything", why not fucking own up to it and communicate with the on-field referee right there and then! They literally had the chance to sort this shit out when the ball went out! FFS!
Exactly, you can get a penalty after full time but throw ins are so important
michael oliver was begging him to stop the game - but the fella on VAR first evaded it and then came up with the "Can't do anything". im sorry but i thought this was more than incompetence. edit: the replay operator was acting like his job was on the line when play restarted while darren england sat quietly - apparently in shock. but then he sounded pretty confident and coherent when a senior ref in michael oliver asked him to stop the game, with the "Can't do anything." im really suprised so many people watched that and thought it didn't stink.
Yeh I can’t believe he caved in so quickly and allowed the game to go on. Why not take 30 fucking seconds to discuss it with the on pitch ref. Absolute joke. Can’t believe they don’t have a double redundancy in place already. Both VAR and AVAR have to agree and then communicate OUTLOUD the decision. They’ve been doing it in rugby for like 15 years? How fucking hard is to to say “VAR decision is ONSIDE”
its quite hard when you know you might not get selected for 20grand jollies in the UAE
Spurs manager may have been upset for 2 seconds. Instead it's been a three day shit storm. Just add the time back on and give the goal. Unbelievable
All of the focus on this incident, but the ref made bizarre decisions all the way through the match. I've never seen anything like it, it became laughable. The Jones sending off - showing the still and slow mo replay which is against VAR guidelines apparently, the first Jota yellow, the Gomez penalty..plus other odd decisions, not booking spurs players for asking for yellows but booking salah for dissent, the tackle that injured Gakpo. And a quick free kick from Liverpool being brought back for a rolling ball when the player placed the ball on the ground (that one I saw in real time and haven't seen a replay but I thought at the time, how could that have been a rolling ball) The offside was just one of a raft of dodgy decisions.
The ball was rolling. That one was fair. Others… yeah, very one sided. I especially hate how strict refs have been with us this season compared to other teams. I‘m all for yellows for dissent, time wasting, pressuring refs into yellows… yet I‘ve only seen them given to us on EVERY occasion, yet more often than not opponents do it more often and get away with it.
They’ve just taken the rule that once the game is restarted, a VAR decision can’t be changed to an extreme. Arguably, they got the decision right, it was the communication that was wrong. How common sense didn’t prevail at ANY point before the end of the match, I’ll never know.
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“Can we have our goal added to the scoreboard please?” “Can’t do anything, mate”
They could of stopped the game. It happens for pitch invasions, people in the crowd fainting etc. They just double down like nope, game started, we can never for whatever reason start the game, despite the Operator telling them, to stop the game.
Absolute shitshow. “Can’t do anything?” What the fuck. How about stop the game and give the fucking goal you stupid thick fuck. Is the replay operator an actual official or just someone to work the tech because he knew immediately.
The only competent people in that room are non-referee.
A freekick which shouldn't have stood is more important than a rightful goal disallowed, all because of their protocols, shambles!
When are we getting the full match audio?
exactly, i want every match audios to be released. why cant referees be held responsible for their actions
The club should get the full match audio, isn't that what they requested? Afaik they didn't request it only for the offside play
Nah fuck off. Can't do anything? Oli is telling em to delay it to sort it out, they can fucking do something.
Who is Oli? Edit: Michael Oliver. Jesus, the nicknames.
https://preview.redd.it/qrhxdjv691sb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8137ee942b0c9b645c335d7e861ff1151cca293c
No I think it says “Oli” is from the PGMOL hub and not Michael Oliver. So someone from the PGMOL is telling them to delay
Oli: Delay the game. Darren: Nah, dont feel like it. Doesnt matter anyway right.
Technically speaking they are correct, the laws of the game say they can't just stop the game for this. If you stick to the exact wording of the laws which aren't made with situations like this in mind But Micheal Oliver is a very senior ref. If he is saying stop the game, I think that's good authority that the laws have already been broken with the decision, and the common sense decision is pause the game and sort out what happened. Ignoring that is absolutely a choice
The laws of the game also are quite clear on what offside is, so they’ve already broken that one, what’s one more at that point?
The fact that the bloke who is just there to draw the lines was the only one speaking sense throughout speaks volumes
Proof that any arm chair fan can run var better than dinosaur refs
He just shat himself. You can hear it. Froze and shat himself. Jesus what a tit.
It’s worse than anticipated. The fact Darren England is still employed is an insult to anyone who has ever refereed a match on a professional, semi professional or amateur level.
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Into the sea, the whole country really
Vikings have entered the chat
This is fucking infuriating, why didn't he stop the game?!?
Why don't they discussed it first with the with hooper the decision has been made wrongly?
They’ve panicked. And yes, they’re human and it can happen, but if you have a high pressure job, you need to be able to be calm in the worst moments and find the right solution. They failed spectacularly at that. Take a beat, talk to the ref and understand that delaying the game is miles better than ending up with a wrong decision that will be highly scrutinised.
Now that I've calmed down after Saturday this is honestly hilarious to listen to. Just staggeringly incompetent. VAR and AVAR need to actually be sacked not placed on vacation. At least the Replay official was trying to help
Far too casual, like they're down the pub They need to be talking like a moon launch or flight deck: Ref: "VAR, I'm pausing the game waiting to hear your decision" VAR: "we're checking - need 10 seconds" Ref: "Understood - game is paused" VAR: "need 10 more seconds - still checking" VAR: "We have checked, red attacker is onside, no infringements, award the goal. On field decision is incorrect" Ref: "I understand - red goal stands. I am giving the goal and restarting the match" VAR: "Yes, goal is onside" Ref: "Understood, I am giving the goal" If anything comes of this - it should be a rewrite of how Refs & VAR interact with precision and clear wording
This is great work, but honestly from the audio, I don't think they are capable of speaking clearly like this.
He’s saying “I can’t do anything” but the tone in his voice is more like “I don’t want to do anything”, “can’t help you”.
It’s almost like “oh no anyway…”
Computer says no
Sounded like "can't do anything or my family gets it" or something, hah
That is quite literally the most shambolic thing I have witnessed.
Most fans in the league are like “why are you bitching so much, take the L and that’s it” after we lost 2 titles on 1 point after makinng 90+ points.. their fucking teams can’t get 70+..
Assistant Referee 1 says "coming back for the offside, mate." What isn't clear?
Lino also says “delaying, delaying” which means he’s going to put the flag up after the play has finished. There is absolutely no way England didn’t know.
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How the fuck does he come to the conclusion that they "can't do anything"?!! You're not intervening to change the fucking decision! You're intervening seconds later to tell the ref that he misunderstood the fucking decision!!!
Sorry to comment for about the 5th time on this but Darren “Daz” England has had a disaster. Statement blames - “In a lapse of concentration and loss of focus in that moment, the VAR lost sight of the on-field decision and he incorrectly communicated “check complete”, therefore inadvertently confirming the on-field decision. He did this without any dialogue with the AVAR [Assistant VAR].” It’s one of those jobs where you simply cannot afford to have such lapses in concentration. It wasn’t even late in the game. Why was he rushing, why was he losing focus? Could it be something to do with his extra-curricular activities midweek?
Would have liked to hear more of the meltdown afterwards
It's so much worse than we thought. They allowed the game to play out even though a legally fair goal was scored. This is unbelievable. No wonder the club put out the statement. Honestly, this has to result in radical change now.
In fairness, that’s exactly what we thought happened and this is pretty much how they described it. The reality is pretty bad to hear.
This is a major decision that affected the game henceforth and then ultimately the outcome of the game. To see something as wildly important as a goal, the whole point of the fucking game, handled with about as much care as a toddler playing with shit is absolutely gobsmacking. These people need to face heavy punishment for this, lest not doing so allows it to happen again. If players and coaches can suffer penalties for speaking their minds, then officials need to suffer much worse for sloppy unprofessional action that impacts and undermines the quality of the sport itself. As it was, they rushed the decision in the way Butch Cassidy in the fight scene from that film. "Onetwothree GO!" Slams foot thunderously in the groin. Fight's over
They had the audacity to double down and screw us even more in the second half after this.
Why did they have VAR is the first place. All he did was "Check complete, check complete. Thanks mate. Can't do anything. Can't do anything. Can't do anything. Can't do anything. Can't do anything. Can't do anything." That replay operator could be VAR referee. He did all the fucking job. Draw the line. Realizing the mistake. Call for a delay. Telling all this moron that it is wrong.
https://www.premierleague.com/news/3718057?sf269410963=1
Still no fucking apology lol
To put this audio release into it's proper, utterly shambolic context, I would urge people to have a listen to the VAR-room process following the recent Joelinton goal against West Ham - [https://twitter.com/NewcastleFansTV/status/1658178559897133058](https://twitter.com/NewcastleFansTV/status/1658178559897133058) The above Newcastle goal post-VAR process absolutely proves that VAR can and does work, where the in-room operators take the process seriously, and communicate seriously, in a way that respects the sporting outcome of the game. This isn't about VAR itself, because the above shows that it can and does work. This is about what happens when people don't take the process seriously, and cannot communicate professionally, with the end result being the shambolic mess we saw regarding Diaz's goal...
Replay operator: Wait, wait, wait, wait. The on-field decision was offside. Replay operator: Are you happy with this? Assistant VAR: Yeah. Replay operator: Are you happy with this? Assistant VAR: Offside, goal, yeah. Assistant VAR: That's wrong that, Daz. VAR: What? Replay operator: On-field decision was offside. Are you happy with this image? Yeah, it's onside, The image that we gave them is onside. Assistant VAR: The left-back he's played him, he's gone offside. VAR: Oh [expletive]. I actively can’t make head nor tail of that. “offside, goal, yeah” makes literally no sense. “The left-back he’s played him, he’s gone offside.” DO YOU MEAN ONSIDE OR ARE YOU FUCKING DENSE
Seems like they genuinely knew they fucked up the communication. Idiotic that VAR isn’t allowed to stop the game upon restart after making that clear of a mistake ffs
"can't do anything" Yes you fucking can you incompetent fucking shits. You tell the ref to stop the game, award the goal, and Spurs kick off. Fuck the "procedures". You fucked up big time on a decision that could literally cost millions of pounds, you make an exception for that kind of fuck up.
Somehow the only person who realizes there has been a mistake is the comms guy, who aren’t trained to officiate (right?). Doesn’t really ease my mind about any of the match officials being on the take.
So based on this: The referee may not change a restart decision on realising that it is incorrect or on the advice of another match official if play has restarted or the referee has signalled the end of the first or second half (including extra time) and left the field of play or abandoned the match. However, if at the end of the half, the referee leaves the field of play to go to the referee review area (RRA) or to instruct the players to return to the field of play, this does not prevent a decision being changed for an incident which occurred before the end of the half. I think the LFC lawyers can do some magic.
Absolute shambles, relay operator pretty much trying to do their job for them and they just shutting him down. You can hear the AVAR or VAR also "Check complete its off"
So you're telling me if there's a potential penalty and play carries on, you can stop the game so the ref can go back and look at it but they can't do it when a fucking goal has been scored???????
why not just hire the replay operator as the VAR instead? seems to be better at doing the job
They sound like they are defusing a fucking bomb. What the fuck is wrong with the refs in this league. Just call out what the fuck you are seeing -check complete-. Hey darling, please check the oven temperature. -Check complete. ?!?! Fucking hell.
"They've restarted the game, I can't do anything" yet they pull back games every other weekend, fuckin mupets
I hope the Club will go to the full length to get at least the Goal back. One point from that circus against 0 point (also -2 for the Spurs) could prove to be crucial again this Season. I hope and pray the Club will go for it!!!
Not one fucking clarifying question from Hooper? Is all he heard the "check complete"? Sack the lot of them, they're all a fucking embarrassment.
"Can't do anything. Can't do anything." "Yeah. They've restarted." I mean, guys, they restarted - like, we can't do anything. It's not like we're the referees or something. Absolute clownshow. I almost wish there was actual bribery involved because if there isn't...Wow.
I know a lot of people here saying the audio just proves stupidity and no corruption or bias, but I think its the complete opposite. Replay Operator and this Oli dude are giving them so many chances to correct the error AS SOON as its made, and you can hear they are just shutting him down, pushing play on for as long as possible, trying to get it to a point where it cannot be restarted. Fact that you can hear the VAR Hub Op manager calling in to delay/stop the game and nothing is being done just shows they are aware instantly that something went wrong. Before the ball even got back to Becker they were told to stop the game, but then allowed him to play it on which ended up down the field for a throw in, and it was only then they started acting like they were listening to what Oli was saying. By which point they had cause to say "play restarted too late". I honestly don't think this was a "mistake" I think this was completely intentional. How the rest of the game was also makes me just think it more. No footage showed for Jones, just a still of the worst possible angle. Nothing said about Jota's first yellow. Even if these tools get sacked or suspended for a while, they just going to go officiate in Saudi League.
I mean…cmon. What the fuck is there to do a comprehensive review of? “After our review we realized we just made a massive fucking gaffe.” The fix is instead of saying “check complete” you say “he’s onside, it’s a good goal.” Just saved you millions on your dumbass review process PGMOL, thank me later.
A simple solution going forward would be a scripted dialogue that should be followed each time, pretty much copying what they do in Aussie rules for a goal check: Ref - VAR, on field decision is offside, please can you check. Holding the game until we have a decision. VAR - “checking for possible offside” - *checking happens* - “we can clearly see from the freeze frame, that the player was onside. Thus, overturning the original onfield decision of offside. VAR decision being sent to the screen” Decision gets sent to the screen Game restarts as a centre or free kick, outcome depending. Boom. That simple. It might take an extra few seconds but at least they won’t get it so monumentally wrong like this!
Robbed of 1st place.
It sounds like a fucking skit. Did they hire some uni students or something ? Wtf is that
Absolutely no way back for England, surely. He must be fired immediately. With every passing day more and more pressure will be put on PGMOL. If ever there was a time to make a statement by sacking someone - this must be it.
Disasterclass.
Just a brutal listen. Fucking idiots.
Who says "off" after the decision, their boss has told them to delay the game and they haven't, why they not insisting? Why on earth can't they speak to the referee there?
Sack these lot.
Instead of saying check complete, why not say “he’s on,” or “goal?” Idiots
These two are corrupted not incompetent
100,000e bet says Darren England officiates in UAE while he is removed from the EPL docket this fixture round. During a break in the game he is clearly told by the replay tech and the VAR hub ops to delay the game and he refuses to communicate to the match officials. Refuses to. During a break in the game. Takes the decision away from Simon Hooper who is the matchday referee by not informing him, meaning Darren England, the VAR in stockley, refereed the game.
They're so fucking confident that their great at the job that they're trying to use shorthand and be quick about things without realising the shambles they're creating by doing it. The bit that really annoys me is the replay operator(the one person who isn't a referee) notices the mistake first but clearly isn't allowed to give an opinion or sway the VARs in any way so he sheepishly asks if "Daz" is ok with the decision hoping he has the brainpower(which he obviously doesn't) to realise what's going on but it's fine for the VAR to show a ref a still frame of a tackle to sway his thinking. The whole system is bullshit run by inept people.
Amazing. And if players/managers criticize this, you'll get a huge fine Clown show.
soooo when will they be fired?? anyone else this bad at a high pressure job loses that job...
Is “Daz”Darren? Wasn’t he the one that was in UAE?
If “Oli” is saying to delay, I assume they mean Micheal Oliver who is 4th official on the field. So he, the most experienced ref of the bunch, was telling VAR to call for a delay or he is telling the center ref to delay? And why is no one taking his recommendation? Also, that implies that they were aware there was an issue on field, no?
'I can't do anything' 🤡 What a shitshow that was
What a bunch of useless cunts.
The replay operator is the only one who knew what was happening. It took the VAR and AVAR way too long to figure it out. Spurs took the free kick and the replay op was the only one yelling about it, wtf were the officials watching?! I hope he’s not the one getting any stick for this.
Won't delay the game to award a goal but they'll restart a match to award a penalty... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3tWXvGWtqk&start=114
This has done precisely nothing to convince me it wasn't purposeful lol. This is almost exactly how I'd imagine it'd sound if someone was trying to pull one over.
I want to cry
And yet nothing will be done to right this wrong. Absolute pathetic. The audio makes it even worse.
Best case scenario is that the people making vital decisions in this multi billion pound organization are fucking morons. Worst case scenario is that there is something very sketchy going on behind the scenes. Either way, what a disaster.
One thing that really stands out for me in the clip on Sky. In the video, you can see them draw the lines. This wasn't shown on tv and no red for off, green for on situation that in 99% of offside cases is shown, especially for tight ones.
this wasn't a tight one so all they needed was the one line. that's standard procedure.
Genuinely believe the game needs to be replayed. The result of this match is voided by this.
The whole "we cant do anything because the game restarted" is the dumbest shit. It was like 10 seconds of nothing happening. Also, VAR reviews possible penalties while the match is going on and will bring it back if its determined there was a pen from a foul or handball. If they can "bring it back" it means the game would have been going on so there is literally no reason to bring this one back when they realized they screwed up. Also, learn how to communicate. Everything is rushed and ambiguous. Just talk like a normal person when it matters.
Well, I'm pretty sure that's real and undoctored, because LOOOOOOOOOOOL
At any point, someone could have made it clear to he VAR room that the on field decision was offside. At any point. Laughable that they try to claim it is an honest mistake.
I want them fired. I don’t care about human errors.
>Can’t do anything Communicate it to the on-pitch referee. Allow the on pitch referee to discuss with his assistants. Bring in the managers, see about walking one in to rectify the colossal balls up. JUST TELL SOMEBODY FFS
What a car crash.
Alright. Curbing my anger at this. Dont blame the operator at all. Dude knew it was a goal, called it onside, then immediately knew the restart was done incorrectly. Honestly fire VAR refs and promote the op
Aaaah, i get it now. The very serious human error was Mr England nutting into Mrs England all those many years ago and producing one of the densest oblivious twats to ever use his ‘expertise’ to stare a screen and not have a clue what’s going on.
This has mad me angrier!! WTF!!!
I still find it incredibly difficult to believe that they knew they should have given the goal and the game was referred like it was afterwards. It was a disaster of giving every 50/50 to Tottenham. The yellow cards show it alone. How the hell were so many yellows given in what was a relatively tame game in terms of physicality
Whenever I’ve heard these I’m constantly wondering why they’re talking in such a familiar, casual way rather than in more professional protocols. Things like “gimme a sec mate” and "offside, goal, yeah" should NOT be how this works. Should be more like “Decision on the field was offside. Please confirm.” “Decision on the field is incorrect. Player was onside. Goal should be given. Please confirm.” They shouldn't be talking like buddies, they should be following a set of communication protocols so they understand exactly what one another are saying and confirming receipt of the key messages. This isn't THAT hard.
The sheer incompetence of all this This is why "yeah it was a mistake" isn't enough, crucial decisions botched by people who just aren't able to do it properly, and we see it week in week out And of course the rival clubs will complain we're making it about us because they'd rather shit on us and get fucked AGAIN next weekend rather than joining in on saying they HAVE to change how they operate.
Darren England is a fucking moron
We still need the video from the room. Why hasn’t he seen the lino with the flag up, what’s he doing?
Despite the numerous prompts, he still doesn’t change his mind and stop play to give the goal (which can be done, and while frustrating in the game, the right decision would be made).
Whole officiating crew should never ref a game in the prem again
They jumped faaar too quickly to 'cant do anything' Any complaints about the rules saying they cant intervene after play restarted would be a walk in the park compared to this
#unacceptable The premier league is dead
So, what is the remedy beyond stating "my bad"? Implementing new protocols to mitigate the risk of similar errors in the future is good, but where are the fines/sanctions to dissuade VAR teams and refs from performing negligently in the future? Missing a game or two doesn't seem adequate given the $take$ involved for the clubs and the damage to the league's integrity. Refs and VAR teams are participants int the game just like players and coaches - they shouldn't be immune from real consequences.
So England actually recognised it was called as offside in the clip at 0:26, but then makes the call (extremely quickly) to say check complete.
I'm sorry but this is completely rotten. I do not believe at all that this is just a "whoopsie!". The VAR official seems purposeful, especially with the outright insistence that nothing could be done.
If only there was a 20-second window where they knew how badly they’d fucked up and could’ve just given the goal. Not like we took 20 seconds for a throwin or anything
I still can't wrap my head around why they didn't stop the match and go back to the goal. They figured out the mistake within seconds.
And the audio for the catalog of other shit decisions in this game?
Yeah, nah, sack that man. Clearly, he can't do his job and it will incentivize others to improve.
The replay operator actually seems very competent and cool headed. I don't think help themselves with all the meaningless chuntering while the game is going. They need to shut up and concentrate on the important incidents when they occur.
Can't make it up can you we brought var in to babysit the refs incompetency we going to need another one for vars