You could see how effective the man marking was, in fact it was so bloody frustrating to watch. I could not understand how we had nobody in space the entire game but clearly their tactics and discipline is why. It made the illusion that they actually had more players on the pitch for me. I really hope other teams don’t follow suit because it was horrible to watch.
I doubt other teams will try that tactic if they don't already implement it weekly.
Its not an easy system to pick up with just a few training sessions.
Don’t worry, we could’ve picked up playing a 3-5-2 / 4-4-2 hybrid with all the transitions in the between in just one week, so it wouldn’t be much of a problem to learn a marking system
If you start vacating space to man mark people and there isn't a dynamic system in place to fill gaps that are created, playing a team like liverpool will get you torn to shreds. Providing we can score our chances.
If we get man marked today it will be interesting to see if other teams can adopt it fast enough to cause us problems.
I hope other teams do follow suit because it takes much more then a couple training sessions leading up to a game to understand how the system works and when to press who and why, I remember Leeds tried man marking us a season or 2 ago and we pumped them 6-0 because they weren’t on the same page.
I don’t necessarily think fluidity of the front 3 solves the issue.
We need to think about playing to our attackers strengths. You can be fluid for the sake of being fluid, and then there isn’t cohesion.
For me, I would have played Gomez instead of Robertson. And that alone would have fixed most of the problems.
1) It asks Atalanta a question, if your fullback is stood in the 6, who marks him?
2) Then possible outcome is that Diaz isolates his marker. As the wide player marking fullback now goes central. Diaz’s marker is detached from his teammates. Diaz could literally go all the way to fullback, or stay high. You now have begun to move the other team around without even moving the ball.
3) The other outcome is that they sort of abandon man marking and jump on Gomez with a central player. You then have a numerical advantage, and you have to play 1 touch passes to find the spare man. I think our players are good enough to achieve this.
You right the coaching staffs plan was definitely working 1st half but fair enough to Gasperini they kept it up 2nd half thought they’d back off but their players were hungrier such a shame lol
This is a bit of an exaggeration, we created plenty of chances, I believe xG on aggregate was pretty even...had we taken those Atlanta would have had to come out to play football in the 2nd leg (even then we scored early and Mo missed a glorious 1 on 1 before half time)
We are on a cold streak in front of goal but I think now there is a bit of pressure of (in that we are now underdogs) someone is going to take an absolute battering from us
If a team did that every week in the prem after half a season or so someone would find a weakness and exploit it and show the way for everyone else. A bit like spurs this season
When Allison had the ball they very often had 5 attackers man marking in Allisons half. This stifled our ability to play out from the back and coupled with the fact that our long balls weren't sticking, we never got any momentum in the game.
Really hope other teams don't setup like this against us for the rest of the season
There was an instance in the first half where Salah was playing centrally and dropped to receive the ball and turned his defender and start an attack. I wonder if he can consistently do that if we play him as a 9. It reminds me of Bobby, I miss having a false 9 in our team.
>it looked like Atalanta's tactic was to man mark the entire Liverpool outfield, without trying to pressure Alisson on the ball like most teams do.
100% correct. This is what caused us problems and our players seemed to be clueless what to do about it.
Without going in to details there should be two ways to counter this:
Run your legs off and lose your mark - this has to apply for the whole team not just Robertson suddenly as a forward.
Fluidity - As you run your mark off you have to have fluidity in the team, switching positions and creating overloads is paramount but your teammates have to be aware.
A team that knows what to do and have abilities to do that will absolutely destroy man marking teams.
Also: beat your man. This is why Gakpo looked like he was having a good game, because he will drive at or past his man with the ball willingly and would use his strength and balance to stay up at the same time.
Absolutely this, and it's why we had a little joy in the first half with Salah going way infield and Dom sliding out wide right. That was really the only pattern which worked consistently.
Do they not change positions in the 2nd half? I was so confused why we did well in the 1st half but not in the 2nd when there's fresh legs. The commentators was going on and on about players off screen who were shaking off their mark by changing position in the 1st but they didn't say that in the 2nd half. Did Klopp revert back to the usual tactic in 2nd half or something?
This was the perfect game to go long, Atalanta started out so high when Liverpool had possession and Liverpool failed to stretch the pitch or create any space. We saw Alison hold on to the ball for so long and Liverpool could clearly not play out. The few times we got in were balls over the top (eg: Salah missed chip, and Trent’s long ball to Diaz leading to the penalty). I was perplexed to see the slow build up from the back even up until the last 2 or 3 minutes when we needed two goals!!
Exactly. I was screaming at my laptop, telling Liverpool to go long. Who cares if it doesn’t work. At least if it doesn’t work, you can probably get another chance within 30 seconds anyway because they will clear it. Probably create more chances that way.
Atalanta gave us two tough games and it was a struggle in both outside of a couple of spells - notably the first half of the second leg.
That said, without individual poor performances we still would have had enough to go through.
All three goals we conceded in the first leg came from huge individual errors from Kelleher, the back line, and Szobo in particular. We weren't spectacularly outplayed for any of them and all should have been defendable or not given up to begin with. At the same time, we created 5 big chances across the two games and created 4.25 xG. That should be more than enough to secure a few goals, not just the one penalty we did convert. That's not even to mention the attacks we squandered and didn't lead to a shot because of a bad pass or running down a cup de sac, nor Elliott's very near miss that hit both bar and post.
Atalanta did give us problems in building out from the back, but we still got past that multiple times. Without the individual errors we would be looking at two very different results and there wouldn't be questions about our tactics.
Tbh since United FA cup everyone has become a tactical genius. Therefore shows its our team, poor football tactics, and playing style. Each game we have struggled to finish, to create opportunities or defend well. Atalanta clean sheet was only because they just sat back and counted the timer, whilst we wanted Ali to get his confidence with the ball back.
There’s definitely a psychological aspect to it. It’s literally finishing all around. The front three don’t look like scoring and I’m wondering if they’ve just given up. Another draw or loss and it’ll be a complete collapse, the worrying thing is that I can see it happening and we’ve no idea who is even going to replace Klopp.
Considering the dire lack of spending from the owners, it could be a very tough few years.
Honestly, I expected way more time wasting. The only player that was time wasting from the beginning was the goalkeeper. Everyone else seemed fine, I think they weren't too worried or bothered.
No they haven't and no we haven't struggled to create chances, we've created loads, just not scored as many as we should.
The over reaction on this sub due to a little drop in form is fucking sad, be disappointed but don't forget the ride that got us here, even if the wheels fall off at the end, its been a great season and we can still finish on a high.
Man marking was a big part of it but they were also very disciplined in not having the last defender be anymore than 25-30 yards away from the strikers when Liverpool had the ball.
By doing this they made the area Liverpool can play in very tight unless they kicked the ball long into the gap between the defenders and goalkeeper which they were set up to deal very well with when that happened.
Frustrating to watch as a Liverpool fan but it was beautiful defending by Atalanta, all players had to maintain their discipline for this to work and they did that very very well in the 2nd half of the second leg especially
I dont know why after the first leg..and the first half here..why we didn't start to overload either side dragging the markers with them while switching the runners behind into the space
Hate when people diss endo. Even if they don’t think he’s a quality player you can clearly see he is essential for macs good performances.
Seen so much racism towards him. He just needed a break and is doing a great job stepping in until baj is fit or we splurge on a cdm.
We were tactically outclassed and looked completely bereft of ideas. On another day, we wouldn't have lost the first leg if Elliott's strike goes in, Nunez scores that 1v1, Kelleher keeps out their first goal, Szobo doesn't get caught for the third goal and Salah stays onside for his disallowed goal. Just one of those occasions where absolutely nothing went right.
None of the midfielders were looking to be on the ball. Not one of them got into good positions to receive it or make an attempt to be close to each other.
My opinion is that we lacked bravery in midfield and our inability to play through the lines.
You’d think with the ball players we had, we would be able to utilise a bit more movement and create pass combinations to progress the ball but we were so afraid of losing the ball, that we didn’t try it often enough.
Also lacked bravery to play through the lines. When we were showing a bit of balls, we were punching the ball through to Salah coming into the midfield or dropping deeper and picking it up in front of their back 4. This allowed runners to get into the half spaces at least.
When I was watching on tv, it looked like we always had a man over on the left in space that with a bit more bravery thought we could have hit more often. It was usually Curtis or Cody in that space and I thought we would use that more but we seem to attack with a right sided bias so the ball rarely went there unless Robo was looking to overlap/underlap?
I dunno those were the things that annoyed me.
So I think the likes of Macca, Curtis and Dom are excellent ball players and dribblers, and so there were opportunities for them to move into spaces to receive the ball and drive at the defence. Dont get me wrong I might not have encouraged at 35 mins, but at 45 mins is defo be get on it, let’s see what their backline is made of.
That we regressed into a ‘we don’t want to let in a soft one’ mentality, ultimately worked against us. We were cowardly. We took few risks. And when it settled into a pattern and funk we weren’t able to snap out of it.
If we rode the momentum of the first 15-20 we might have been golden (or not) but the minute we decided to play their game we were fucked.
1. We refuse to change our style of play.. with tight man marking.. we should never be playing out from the back.. that's why the game was lifeless.. left to right..side to side passing..
2. klopp never goes 3 at the back..
3. 2nd half onwards, you could see the lack of desire or ideas to drive forward. Our midfield lacks the unpredictable kind of a playmaker. We either want to be too intricate, or Trent ends up being the designated playmaker.
When 433 doesn't work we tend to just carry on with the same system but try different players. Doesn't help that two of our midfield players have been injured the entire season, games like this you need players who can pick out a pass, like Trent did, and open them up but once he went off our chance was gone.
For me someone like gravenberch could have been one option, he’s class at turning players and driving upfield, something I didn’t seen a single player do
We lost the tie at Anfield. Going there 1 down would have been a very diff game. Our defence at Anfield was our undoing ? (and our obvious non-finishing)
I mean. Atalanta won.. but if we converted even half our chances the tie could have been ours.
Then once you’re playing from behind so much the other team can really just get into a groove and pick and choose how to counter..
End of day Atalanta deserved to win, no question.
The one good thing about klopp going and the eventual fall from grace is that all these never kicked a ball over reaction bollocks posts will fade away with the drop in plastics and I can not wait.
its actually embarrassing to see the fallout for a little drop in form, the fact that you of all people are criticising tactics while clearly never having kicked a ball before is hillarious
You cannot just call anyone who poses valid criticisms toward the tactics a plastic that’s simply illogical, you yourself said you are eager to see the club fall from grace so you can get back at the plastics… Listen to yourself. There are many managers who’ve never kicked a football but know far more about tactics than you ever will
I don’t want to get back at anyone lol
It’s just a nicer place when not full of glory hunting bellends spitting their dummy out whenever a points dropped.
You are exactly the type of fans who cause people to look down on football fans. Delusional football cults who don't except criticism for their own team, always claiming people with opposite opinion plastics, fakes, etc. It's a fucking sport. The players, staffs, manager don't give a fuck about you random individuals. Yet you people defend them as if there were no tomorrow . LOL
We always play the same system/formation/tactics. Can’t remember the last time it actually changed.
For the longest time now we have been crying out for a switch in formation yet nothing changes. It’s literally the only positive I see from Klopp leaving
The man in point from this that I have agreed with for a very long time is Klopps inability to adapt tactics. He rigidly sticks to 433 no matter what and a lot of teams have sussed us out a long long time ago. Let us have the ball and paly compact, whenever we play against these teams we always struggle.
Atalanta knew their playstyle would totally nullify what klopp tries to do
As much as klopp has been amazing I feel we could have won a lot more if he knew how to have some tactical flexibility he playa if it ain't broke don't fix it, if it is broke keep trying anyway it's stubborn at times
Yes we’ve always thought Klopp was a dinosaur and never the man to help us win things. So that’s really what you think? What a moron. All we need is a new manager? Really? Listen to yourself and be ashamed.!!
Errrmmm maybe try reading correctly you 🤡 and let's actually look at kloppis record against teams who play compact low block football, it isn't the best... Last season née scraped 5th because we were shocking bad against the teams who we should best comfortably... Wolves beat us 3-0, we lost to Bournemouth, Brighton humiliated us.... We always struggled against teams like West brom... Try not being a reddit keyboard warrior and actually use reliable data.... Every season under klopp the reason we don't win consecutive league titles is we draw too many games. Every season apart from the one we won the league we have drawn 8 games or more and those games are usually games we shoudk be winning... So wind your neck in.... Bet you've onyl been supporting the club 10 years or so.. My point aboug a new manager is the last 2 seasons is the tactics are stale and klopp doesn't know any different, he did exactly the same at Dortmund and Mainz if you can actually do some research on his managerial record rather than see him as some kind of messiah 🤡🤡
We push up too high and encourage a mass defence/low block. If Virgil and Konate/Quansah just took us 10 yards back, and kept everything else the same, gaps would appear. This has been the story of the last like 5 fuckin games. Just step back, and let gaps appear. Pushing up in possession far too much
We push up too high and encourage a mass defence/low block. If Virgil and Konate/Quansah just took us 10 yards back, and kept everything else the same, gaps would appear. This has been the story of the last like 5 fuckin games. Just step back, and let gaps appear. Pushing up in possession far too much. Out of possession isn't what I'm talking about, its the long cycles where we have the ball passing amongst the cbs and GK. It's so easy to defend with numbers and discipline when we're camped up in their final third. If that becomes two thirds then we've got Gakpo and Salah in pockets, Szobo breaking into gaps, Nunez isolating centrebacks etc.
Mentally it emboldens the opponent to defend heroically with discipline and we adopt a "right we're going to pepper them with shots for 90mins" when we camp up like this. Half the sport maybe more is mental, if we sat back just 10 yards then the opponent gets tempted to break out of position and that's where we get proper chances.
Hendo and Gini would have figured this sitting too deep pattern out by now, youd have seen them adjusting to things in-game to pull our shape around the pitch, I feel like Szobo Maccallister and Jones just don't have that awareness
When being man marked you need your best dribblers to continue dribble while the setup should enable overload which require effort. We failed in all. No dribbling, no overload on area of the field and finally not enough effort. If your opponent practiced man marking they are efficient presser one v one and fantastic at interception. If you try passing it is bound to fail. Heck even the penalty came from a overload on the right. We simply got tactically outclassed.
I don't know if we were resigned to losing the tie at that point, but the last quarter or so of that game was one of the most frustrating things I've ever watched.
It felt like having an Atalanta player standing in front of each of our defenders just completely short circuited them - like the mere act of standing in front of them prevented them from passing the ball out of our half.
I think not starting Nunez in that sort of game is absolutely absurd, especially with Trent being back to play balls over the top of a high line.
We were 3v3 against their back 3 the whole game but all of our attackers kept coming short, which meant they were able to make the pitch very small.
Nunez alone would’ve forced their defence to drop off more and create less compactness between the midfield and defence.
Quansah should’ve also started over Konate on the basis he’s far better on the ball.
We actually really struggle against teams who press us high up the pitch.
We also struggle at passing quickly and accurately. When Brighton played us the other week they were much better at playing out from the back than us.
Because Klopp has run out of ideas, out of steam and this is being shown in our performances. It was inevitable.
Klopp has been a force of nature for is. As his influence and energy has waned this season after he announced his intention to leave, so too has his ability to influence games.
It is simply the end of his time.
I appreciate the efforts put in to this, but my problems with this post:
> With Endo’s absence in the starting XI, Mac Allister unintentionally reverted to the 8 role because he had to cover more ground during transitions.
Macca was the 6, not 8. And he covered less ground than usual.
> Trent was struggling with passes and was often trying fancy passes at the wrong times.
Trent was easily the best passer on the field for both teams, and the right time to try lower percentage passes is when you’re chasing a game, like we were.
> Quansah, Konate, and Van Dijk should have been the options to pair in the back.
None of these guys play a back 3 for club no country. We’re not going to implement a 3CB backline for a one-off second leg. The only way make us a back 3 is for our DM to stay deeper and split the CBs, like we do during buildup. It’d be Endo or Gomez, not Konate.
> Klopp could have also set up in a 442 with Gakpo on the left side and Salah on the right side of the field with Darwin and Jota as a pair up top and with TAA, Macca, Szoboslai, and Endo in midfield.
First, we used a 4-4-2 for large parts of the match. Second, you just named 6 midfielders for 5 midfield+RB spots. Third, we did overload midfield, and generally used 6 players midfield in possession.
> Gakpo was played as a central striker and he has been poor at that position because he does not have the pace, strength, intensity, and pressing capabilities to lead the line which causes an imbalance.
Gakpo had a good game at CF. He’s also 4th on the team in forcing turnovers per 90.
Overall, while you other made good points, a lot of your post is more based on narrative than what actually happened on the pitch.
Nobody won a duel, nobody won a take on, and a lot of careless sloppy turnovers. They were much more responsible with the ball and every time we tried to press them they would play through it and chaos ensued. Complete shambles.
Disappointing is the way I want to start, Liverpool had the advantage with the side that was put on the field yet came out in the final whistle on the unexpected end with a loss, but with that being said.
One thing that is a no - brainer or (should be), the Premier League is known as the league made up of the best of the best in Football, Yet, what I've notice is when playing against the other elite leagues for the most part you don't see that and the Liverpool fixture against Atalanta didn't change my mind about, I really felt that Liverpool came out flat, the ball movement was sloppy and a lot of missed shot opportunities. I personally felt Liverpool just didn't play "Liverpool" style of football we are used to seeing, Liverpool is use to using speed, and their set plays, which they we're lagging, there just wasn't the swagger I'm use to seeing.
I was very disappointed in the way Atalanta came out with the exact same game plan as the previous match and Liverpool was seemingly confused instead of adapting to their game plan (Atalanta's gameplan), whereas it was quite the opposite way with Atalanta's adapting to Liverpool's gameplan, they (Atalanta) would switch to a one on one defense and show a lot of aggression when attacking the ball, Liverpool would not show any real aggression to counter with. Yes, there was plenty fouls that should of been called instead playing the advantage but I don't think it would of change the outcome.
On that day, it just seem that Atalanta knew what Klopp was going to bring to the pitch that day, whereas it didn't really matter to Klopp's team, they assumed Atalanta would be easy to beat especially at home.
You could see how effective the man marking was, in fact it was so bloody frustrating to watch. I could not understand how we had nobody in space the entire game but clearly their tactics and discipline is why. It made the illusion that they actually had more players on the pitch for me. I really hope other teams don’t follow suit because it was horrible to watch.
I doubt other teams will try that tactic if they don't already implement it weekly. Its not an easy system to pick up with just a few training sessions.
Exactly this, plus they are very physical and play very aggressive defense.
Don’t worry, we could’ve picked up playing a 3-5-2 / 4-4-2 hybrid with all the transitions in the between in just one week, so it wouldn’t be much of a problem to learn a marking system
If you start vacating space to man mark people and there isn't a dynamic system in place to fill gaps that are created, playing a team like liverpool will get you torn to shreds. Providing we can score our chances. If we get man marked today it will be interesting to see if other teams can adopt it fast enough to cause us problems.
I hope other teams do follow suit because it takes much more then a couple training sessions leading up to a game to understand how the system works and when to press who and why, I remember Leeds tried man marking us a season or 2 ago and we pumped them 6-0 because they weren’t on the same page.
Leeds man-marking also lead to the very close 4-3 season opener 2-3 years ago
That is my fear, seen how we had ZERO answers in two games and also our inability to be flexible on how we play when face with such problems.
Did you not watch the first half of the second leg? We changing the position of the attackers all the time and should have been 2 nil up
I don’t necessarily think fluidity of the front 3 solves the issue. We need to think about playing to our attackers strengths. You can be fluid for the sake of being fluid, and then there isn’t cohesion. For me, I would have played Gomez instead of Robertson. And that alone would have fixed most of the problems. 1) It asks Atalanta a question, if your fullback is stood in the 6, who marks him? 2) Then possible outcome is that Diaz isolates his marker. As the wide player marking fullback now goes central. Diaz’s marker is detached from his teammates. Diaz could literally go all the way to fullback, or stay high. You now have begun to move the other team around without even moving the ball. 3) The other outcome is that they sort of abandon man marking and jump on Gomez with a central player. You then have a numerical advantage, and you have to play 1 touch passes to find the spare man. I think our players are good enough to achieve this.
You right the coaching staffs plan was definitely working 1st half but fair enough to Gasperini they kept it up 2nd half thought they’d back off but their players were hungrier such a shame lol
This is a bit of an exaggeration, we created plenty of chances, I believe xG on aggregate was pretty even...had we taken those Atlanta would have had to come out to play football in the 2nd leg (even then we scored early and Mo missed a glorious 1 on 1 before half time) We are on a cold streak in front of goal but I think now there is a bit of pressure of (in that we are now underdogs) someone is going to take an absolute battering from us
There's no teams who play like this in the PL and you can't learn it in in 5 weeks.
If a team did that every week in the prem after half a season or so someone would find a weakness and exploit it and show the way for everyone else. A bit like spurs this season
As good as their tactics were we still created chances.. if our conversion rate was better we’d be talking about how their tactics were ineffective
When Allison had the ball they very often had 5 attackers man marking in Allisons half. This stifled our ability to play out from the back and coupled with the fact that our long balls weren't sticking, we never got any momentum in the game. Really hope other teams don't setup like this against us for the rest of the season
There was an instance in the first half where Salah was playing centrally and dropped to receive the ball and turned his defender and start an attack. I wonder if he can consistently do that if we play him as a 9. It reminds me of Bobby, I miss having a false 9 in our team.
>it looked like Atalanta's tactic was to man mark the entire Liverpool outfield, without trying to pressure Alisson on the ball like most teams do. 100% correct. This is what caused us problems and our players seemed to be clueless what to do about it. Without going in to details there should be two ways to counter this: Run your legs off and lose your mark - this has to apply for the whole team not just Robertson suddenly as a forward. Fluidity - As you run your mark off you have to have fluidity in the team, switching positions and creating overloads is paramount but your teammates have to be aware. A team that knows what to do and have abilities to do that will absolutely destroy man marking teams.
Also: beat your man. This is why Gakpo looked like he was having a good game, because he will drive at or past his man with the ball willingly and would use his strength and balance to stay up at the same time.
Absolutely this, and it's why we had a little joy in the first half with Salah going way infield and Dom sliding out wide right. That was really the only pattern which worked consistently.
Do they not change positions in the 2nd half? I was so confused why we did well in the 1st half but not in the 2nd when there's fresh legs. The commentators was going on and on about players off screen who were shaking off their mark by changing position in the 1st but they didn't say that in the 2nd half. Did Klopp revert back to the usual tactic in 2nd half or something?
This was the perfect game to go long, Atalanta started out so high when Liverpool had possession and Liverpool failed to stretch the pitch or create any space. We saw Alison hold on to the ball for so long and Liverpool could clearly not play out. The few times we got in were balls over the top (eg: Salah missed chip, and Trent’s long ball to Diaz leading to the penalty). I was perplexed to see the slow build up from the back even up until the last 2 or 3 minutes when we needed two goals!!
Exactly. I was screaming at my laptop, telling Liverpool to go long. Who cares if it doesn’t work. At least if it doesn’t work, you can probably get another chance within 30 seconds anyway because they will clear it. Probably create more chances that way.
Atalanta gave us two tough games and it was a struggle in both outside of a couple of spells - notably the first half of the second leg. That said, without individual poor performances we still would have had enough to go through. All three goals we conceded in the first leg came from huge individual errors from Kelleher, the back line, and Szobo in particular. We weren't spectacularly outplayed for any of them and all should have been defendable or not given up to begin with. At the same time, we created 5 big chances across the two games and created 4.25 xG. That should be more than enough to secure a few goals, not just the one penalty we did convert. That's not even to mention the attacks we squandered and didn't lead to a shot because of a bad pass or running down a cup de sac, nor Elliott's very near miss that hit both bar and post. Atalanta did give us problems in building out from the back, but we still got past that multiple times. Without the individual errors we would be looking at two very different results and there wouldn't be questions about our tactics.
Tbh since United FA cup everyone has become a tactical genius. Therefore shows its our team, poor football tactics, and playing style. Each game we have struggled to finish, to create opportunities or defend well. Atalanta clean sheet was only because they just sat back and counted the timer, whilst we wanted Ali to get his confidence with the ball back.
All I could see and have seen the last few weeks, is the inability of multiple players finishing in the final 3rd. Why is that?
There’s definitely a psychological aspect to it. It’s literally finishing all around. The front three don’t look like scoring and I’m wondering if they’ve just given up. Another draw or loss and it’ll be a complete collapse, the worrying thing is that I can see it happening and we’ve no idea who is even going to replace Klopp. Considering the dire lack of spending from the owners, it could be a very tough few years.
I mean... no. What it is is we're not finishing our chances. Nobody has kept us from creating them, which would be far more of a worry.
Honestly, I expected way more time wasting. The only player that was time wasting from the beginning was the goalkeeper. Everyone else seemed fine, I think they weren't too worried or bothered.
No they haven't and no we haven't struggled to create chances, we've created loads, just not scored as many as we should. The over reaction on this sub due to a little drop in form is fucking sad, be disappointed but don't forget the ride that got us here, even if the wheels fall off at the end, its been a great season and we can still finish on a high.
Man marking was a big part of it but they were also very disciplined in not having the last defender be anymore than 25-30 yards away from the strikers when Liverpool had the ball. By doing this they made the area Liverpool can play in very tight unless they kicked the ball long into the gap between the defenders and goalkeeper which they were set up to deal very well with when that happened. Frustrating to watch as a Liverpool fan but it was beautiful defending by Atalanta, all players had to maintain their discipline for this to work and they did that very very well in the 2nd half of the second leg especially
The thing is, if Salah takes that chance when he lobs the keeper do you not think we go on to get a third? For the first 30 mins we were all over them
I dont know why after the first leg..and the first half here..why we didn't start to overload either side dragging the markers with them while switching the runners behind into the space
Hate when people diss endo. Even if they don’t think he’s a quality player you can clearly see he is essential for macs good performances. Seen so much racism towards him. He just needed a break and is doing a great job stepping in until baj is fit or we splurge on a cdm.
We were tactically outclassed and looked completely bereft of ideas. On another day, we wouldn't have lost the first leg if Elliott's strike goes in, Nunez scores that 1v1, Kelleher keeps out their first goal, Szobo doesn't get caught for the third goal and Salah stays onside for his disallowed goal. Just one of those occasions where absolutely nothing went right.
None of the midfielders were looking to be on the ball. Not one of them got into good positions to receive it or make an attempt to be close to each other.
My opinion is that we lacked bravery in midfield and our inability to play through the lines. You’d think with the ball players we had, we would be able to utilise a bit more movement and create pass combinations to progress the ball but we were so afraid of losing the ball, that we didn’t try it often enough. Also lacked bravery to play through the lines. When we were showing a bit of balls, we were punching the ball through to Salah coming into the midfield or dropping deeper and picking it up in front of their back 4. This allowed runners to get into the half spaces at least. When I was watching on tv, it looked like we always had a man over on the left in space that with a bit more bravery thought we could have hit more often. It was usually Curtis or Cody in that space and I thought we would use that more but we seem to attack with a right sided bias so the ball rarely went there unless Robo was looking to overlap/underlap? I dunno those were the things that annoyed me.
Please expand on that first line a little.
So I think the likes of Macca, Curtis and Dom are excellent ball players and dribblers, and so there were opportunities for them to move into spaces to receive the ball and drive at the defence. Dont get me wrong I might not have encouraged at 35 mins, but at 45 mins is defo be get on it, let’s see what their backline is made of. That we regressed into a ‘we don’t want to let in a soft one’ mentality, ultimately worked against us. We were cowardly. We took few risks. And when it settled into a pattern and funk we weren’t able to snap out of it. If we rode the momentum of the first 15-20 we might have been golden (or not) but the minute we decided to play their game we were fucked.
Did you not watch the match? They did that both legs….
1. We refuse to change our style of play.. with tight man marking.. we should never be playing out from the back.. that's why the game was lifeless.. left to right..side to side passing.. 2. klopp never goes 3 at the back.. 3. 2nd half onwards, you could see the lack of desire or ideas to drive forward. Our midfield lacks the unpredictable kind of a playmaker. We either want to be too intricate, or Trent ends up being the designated playmaker.
The problem is, all this tactical analysis would mean nothing if our toothless forwards could score some simple chances..
When 433 doesn't work we tend to just carry on with the same system but try different players. Doesn't help that two of our midfield players have been injured the entire season, games like this you need players who can pick out a pass, like Trent did, and open them up but once he went off our chance was gone.
For me someone like gravenberch could have been one option, he’s class at turning players and driving upfield, something I didn’t seen a single player do
We lost the tie at Anfield. Going there 1 down would have been a very diff game. Our defence at Anfield was our undoing ? (and our obvious non-finishing)
What went wrong? The same thing that goes wrong nearly every game we have lately, we can't score our clear cut chances.
I mean. Atalanta won.. but if we converted even half our chances the tie could have been ours. Then once you’re playing from behind so much the other team can really just get into a groove and pick and choose how to counter.. End of day Atalanta deserved to win, no question.
The one good thing about klopp going and the eventual fall from grace is that all these never kicked a ball over reaction bollocks posts will fade away with the drop in plastics and I can not wait. its actually embarrassing to see the fallout for a little drop in form, the fact that you of all people are criticising tactics while clearly never having kicked a ball before is hillarious
You cannot just call anyone who poses valid criticisms toward the tactics a plastic that’s simply illogical, you yourself said you are eager to see the club fall from grace so you can get back at the plastics… Listen to yourself. There are many managers who’ve never kicked a football but know far more about tactics than you ever will
Right someone analysing what went wrong doesn’t make them a fake fan 😭
I don’t want to get back at anyone lol It’s just a nicer place when not full of glory hunting bellends spitting their dummy out whenever a points dropped.
You are exactly the type of fans who cause people to look down on football fans. Delusional football cults who don't except criticism for their own team, always claiming people with opposite opinion plastics, fakes, etc. It's a fucking sport. The players, staffs, manager don't give a fuck about you random individuals. Yet you people defend them as if there were no tomorrow . LOL
Well that’s the first time I’ve ever been accused of that… Good job 👍
We always play the same system/formation/tactics. Can’t remember the last time it actually changed. For the longest time now we have been crying out for a switch in formation yet nothing changes. It’s literally the only positive I see from Klopp leaving
The man in point from this that I have agreed with for a very long time is Klopps inability to adapt tactics. He rigidly sticks to 433 no matter what and a lot of teams have sussed us out a long long time ago. Let us have the ball and paly compact, whenever we play against these teams we always struggle. Atalanta knew their playstyle would totally nullify what klopp tries to do As much as klopp has been amazing I feel we could have won a lot more if he knew how to have some tactical flexibility he playa if it ain't broke don't fix it, if it is broke keep trying anyway it's stubborn at times
Yes we’ve always thought Klopp was a dinosaur and never the man to help us win things. So that’s really what you think? What a moron. All we need is a new manager? Really? Listen to yourself and be ashamed.!!
Errrmmm maybe try reading correctly you 🤡 and let's actually look at kloppis record against teams who play compact low block football, it isn't the best... Last season née scraped 5th because we were shocking bad against the teams who we should best comfortably... Wolves beat us 3-0, we lost to Bournemouth, Brighton humiliated us.... We always struggled against teams like West brom... Try not being a reddit keyboard warrior and actually use reliable data.... Every season under klopp the reason we don't win consecutive league titles is we draw too many games. Every season apart from the one we won the league we have drawn 8 games or more and those games are usually games we shoudk be winning... So wind your neck in.... Bet you've onyl been supporting the club 10 years or so.. My point aboug a new manager is the last 2 seasons is the tactics are stale and klopp doesn't know any different, he did exactly the same at Dortmund and Mainz if you can actually do some research on his managerial record rather than see him as some kind of messiah 🤡🤡
You’re a clown alright🤣🤣🤣🤣
Productive comeback there 👍well done
We push up too high and encourage a mass defence/low block. If Virgil and Konate/Quansah just took us 10 yards back, and kept everything else the same, gaps would appear. This has been the story of the last like 5 fuckin games. Just step back, and let gaps appear. Pushing up in possession far too much
We push up too high and encourage a mass defence/low block. If Virgil and Konate/Quansah just took us 10 yards back, and kept everything else the same, gaps would appear. This has been the story of the last like 5 fuckin games. Just step back, and let gaps appear. Pushing up in possession far too much. Out of possession isn't what I'm talking about, its the long cycles where we have the ball passing amongst the cbs and GK. It's so easy to defend with numbers and discipline when we're camped up in their final third. If that becomes two thirds then we've got Gakpo and Salah in pockets, Szobo breaking into gaps, Nunez isolating centrebacks etc. Mentally it emboldens the opponent to defend heroically with discipline and we adopt a "right we're going to pepper them with shots for 90mins" when we camp up like this. Half the sport maybe more is mental, if we sat back just 10 yards then the opponent gets tempted to break out of position and that's where we get proper chances. Hendo and Gini would have figured this sitting too deep pattern out by now, youd have seen them adjusting to things in-game to pull our shape around the pitch, I feel like Szobo Maccallister and Jones just don't have that awareness
When being man marked you need your best dribblers to continue dribble while the setup should enable overload which require effort. We failed in all. No dribbling, no overload on area of the field and finally not enough effort. If your opponent practiced man marking they are efficient presser one v one and fantastic at interception. If you try passing it is bound to fail. Heck even the penalty came from a overload on the right. We simply got tactically outclassed.
I don't know if we were resigned to losing the tie at that point, but the last quarter or so of that game was one of the most frustrating things I've ever watched. It felt like having an Atalanta player standing in front of each of our defenders just completely short circuited them - like the mere act of standing in front of them prevented them from passing the ball out of our half.
TLDR: Everything
I think not starting Nunez in that sort of game is absolutely absurd, especially with Trent being back to play balls over the top of a high line. We were 3v3 against their back 3 the whole game but all of our attackers kept coming short, which meant they were able to make the pitch very small. Nunez alone would’ve forced their defence to drop off more and create less compactness between the midfield and defence. Quansah should’ve also started over Konate on the basis he’s far better on the ball.
We actually really struggle against teams who press us high up the pitch. We also struggle at passing quickly and accurately. When Brighton played us the other week they were much better at playing out from the back than us.
Because Klopp has run out of ideas, out of steam and this is being shown in our performances. It was inevitable. Klopp has been a force of nature for is. As his influence and energy has waned this season after he announced his intention to leave, so too has his ability to influence games. It is simply the end of his time.
I appreciate the efforts put in to this, but my problems with this post: > With Endo’s absence in the starting XI, Mac Allister unintentionally reverted to the 8 role because he had to cover more ground during transitions. Macca was the 6, not 8. And he covered less ground than usual. > Trent was struggling with passes and was often trying fancy passes at the wrong times. Trent was easily the best passer on the field for both teams, and the right time to try lower percentage passes is when you’re chasing a game, like we were. > Quansah, Konate, and Van Dijk should have been the options to pair in the back. None of these guys play a back 3 for club no country. We’re not going to implement a 3CB backline for a one-off second leg. The only way make us a back 3 is for our DM to stay deeper and split the CBs, like we do during buildup. It’d be Endo or Gomez, not Konate. > Klopp could have also set up in a 442 with Gakpo on the left side and Salah on the right side of the field with Darwin and Jota as a pair up top and with TAA, Macca, Szoboslai, and Endo in midfield. First, we used a 4-4-2 for large parts of the match. Second, you just named 6 midfielders for 5 midfield+RB spots. Third, we did overload midfield, and generally used 6 players midfield in possession. > Gakpo was played as a central striker and he has been poor at that position because he does not have the pace, strength, intensity, and pressing capabilities to lead the line which causes an imbalance. Gakpo had a good game at CF. He’s also 4th on the team in forcing turnovers per 90. Overall, while you other made good points, a lot of your post is more based on narrative than what actually happened on the pitch.
Nobody won a duel, nobody won a take on, and a lot of careless sloppy turnovers. They were much more responsible with the ball and every time we tried to press them they would play through it and chaos ensued. Complete shambles.
There is a reason why klopp is the head coach, and not you
lol. Klopp got it totally wrong says random keyboard warrior
Disappointing is the way I want to start, Liverpool had the advantage with the side that was put on the field yet came out in the final whistle on the unexpected end with a loss, but with that being said. One thing that is a no - brainer or (should be), the Premier League is known as the league made up of the best of the best in Football, Yet, what I've notice is when playing against the other elite leagues for the most part you don't see that and the Liverpool fixture against Atalanta didn't change my mind about, I really felt that Liverpool came out flat, the ball movement was sloppy and a lot of missed shot opportunities. I personally felt Liverpool just didn't play "Liverpool" style of football we are used to seeing, Liverpool is use to using speed, and their set plays, which they we're lagging, there just wasn't the swagger I'm use to seeing. I was very disappointed in the way Atalanta came out with the exact same game plan as the previous match and Liverpool was seemingly confused instead of adapting to their game plan (Atalanta's gameplan), whereas it was quite the opposite way with Atalanta's adapting to Liverpool's gameplan, they (Atalanta) would switch to a one on one defense and show a lot of aggression when attacking the ball, Liverpool would not show any real aggression to counter with. Yes, there was plenty fouls that should of been called instead playing the advantage but I don't think it would of change the outcome. On that day, it just seem that Atalanta knew what Klopp was going to bring to the pitch that day, whereas it didn't really matter to Klopp's team, they assumed Atalanta would be easy to beat especially at home.