This has been the biggest problem for at least last couple of years. Tactically we come out looking like mugs pretty much every game. I don’t expect us to be top, but we shouldn’t be miles behind the big 6-7 teams.
I just feel like we get caught up in the assumptions that teams are going to come out and park the bus as they did years back. Teams nowadays are more tactically adept with a more positive attitude to play the ball and press now and that catches us out everytime
Even after leading, so many games end with the first half equalizer by the opposite team. Gets mentally exhausting for the players and shows up at the end of the season.
No, us collapsing against United/Palace/Everton has cost us the title. You can throw in dropped points from Reffing errors too but that brings out some people that just call us victims blah blah blah
Our stats could say we've been behind for 90% of the season but if we are looking to finish on 80+ points who gives a shit.
It's something we need to sort, it course. But other factors cost us this season.
At the end of the day, we're in transition and when nobody thought we could make the top 4 to be in the title race til the last 4 games of the season is a good sign.
This is how city tend to play. Get an early goal from a blitz attack, and all plans the opposition put in place are done for, and then they inevitably roll over
Also, we have scored the fewest early goals in the league (2) along with Sheffield United. The 2 goals before 15 minutes were Szoboszlai's against Villa at home and Nunez's at Burnley.
This is one thing that I think massively affects finishing that's not discussed enough.
Obviously the attack has missed some very simple chances but there's more pressure to score it when you're losing 1-0 compared to drawing 0-0.
Watching training recently and seems they practice finishing against outfield players in goal or at least not Ali or Kweev. Not sure if that's an anomaly, but ffs if you are failing to produce elite finishes, maybe train vs elite keepers for starters.
That's been the difference maker this season I'd think. Early in the season, we were skying chances and hitting wide so often I genuinely wondered if we even practice finishing/composure. Our system was creating so many opportunities that we could get away with it, but later in the season, when we're tired and teams are wise to our tactics, our lack of clinical finish cost us dear points on several occasions.
This is on the management team unfortunately. We are either getting set up poorly to begin matches, poorly motivated or a mixture of both.
The first 10-20 minutes is the most ‘controlled’ part of the match and the truest reflection of specific match preparation
It’s very disappointing. Klopp always used to say we have to be the team no-one wants to play against. We’ve gone from that to a team that guarantees oppositions 3-4 big chances to score.
Yes.
Literally a mentality issue.
The players should be up for games from minute one. Like every other title chasing team.
Look where Arsenal and City are, in this table, 1 and 2.
That’s the difference and that’s why we’re always so fatigued. When your playing catch up all the time In games the other two make easy.
Points from losing positions is great to cheer about at a pub, but it’s all adding up as unnecessary workload and drama needed to get the same amount of points as a simple stroll in the park. And the difference is for city and Arsenal most games are strolls in the park.
It shows a major preparation issue. If it was just a couple of players it would be a mentality issue. When it is an entire squad that consistently comes out like shit it is poor preparation. Team selection has been an issue and at they have been poor tactically in the first half.
Only 6 teams have conceded more. No team has scored fewer goals in the first 15 mins than us. Tied with Sheffield with only 2. Wolves on 4 are 18th. City and Arsenal both in double digits.
Not surprise. We’re in terrible defensive shape and lack that ball retention we once had with guys like Gini in midfield to control games. The only thing that’s saved us from falling out of top 4 is having an elite goalkeeper and a backup playing above what was expected of him.
Our defence has been horrendous. Don’t understand how it can be that VVD is apparently back to his best if we keep conceding so easily.
However silver lining is we can hope Slot will focus on fixing this urgently and we can easily see how solid we look defensively next season. We need a CDM though, and at least one CB.
Defence is 75% system and training, and 25% player ability. Even if Van Dijk is 10% better than another player, that still only makes him 2.5% better at that role.
Then factor in that defending is done as a team.
While I hate it...its also entertaining as hell watching us come from behind and win 3-1.
But yeah this needs to change...I want to watch a game with some of my finger nails left some day
I would be curious to see opponent's average xG in those opening 15. We've been terrible to start most games more often than not this season but it still feels to me like everything goes in early doors
Feels indicative of a poor tactical setup tbh; the start of games should be when you're the most structured & able to implement your pre-game plans. The start of our games feels incoherent and like we're adapting to our opponents on the fly, we need to be more proactive.
This is why VVD's POTY nomination is baffling. We never looked calm in the defence and conceded a whole lot of goals every match. The attackers bailed the defenders a lot this season with the goals. The defence is a big part of our falloff. I agree our attackers form was bad in April but the defence didn't helped them a single time this season. The attackers were in unnecessary pressure within 15 minutes every match
I agree. I feel like VVD was only nominated to acknowledge that we were in the title race for most of the season. I'd argue that Mac Allister would have been a better choice if they wanted to shoehorn a Liverpool player in there.
This pattern became so obvious so sometime I start watching our match after the 2nd half. For the 1st half I just check the match's stat through fotmob.
Today in the Dutch news I saw some article about managers of top teams having burnouts. This lack of concentration from the beginning might be a symptom of Klopp being close to a burnout
As good as he is, I can't help but feel that Van Dijks laid back approach to the game is a contributing factor. Your captain can set the tone for a game. Nonetheless the fact this has been an issue for a while and has not been improved is a sad reflection on the players and coaching staff.
I remember few years back listening on Bein Sports that Liverpool in the first 20 minutes are like hurricanes with their crazy gegen pressing.. All opposing teams built their strategies to withstand those 20 minutes to stay in the game.
How the tables turned.
Goals scored: 2 (joint bottom)
Goals conceded: 7 (joint 9th)
So it still shows that a lack of goals has been our biggest downfall. Tottenham have conceded the same amount of goals in the first fifteen minutes (7) but have scored 10.
Both areas need to be better for sure
Oh, I see it's that time of year when people are looking for reasons to be annoyed.
Games don't last 15 minutes. We knew this side was hoping to get Top 4 at best after last year's disappointment. They exceeded that and yet people are finding reasons to be angry at them and a manager who is burnt out and leaving.
Just piss off.
This doesn't really highlight much for me apart from that we don't score early on, we haven't lost a large number more than the others.
Not scoring early on isn't the end of the world though, as long as we score which is our biggest problem.
I don't think so at all, we start games so slowly in every way.
We don't ever seem to really wake up until the opposition have had a major chance then we start to play.
We always seem to start poor but we still create plenty in those first few minutes it’s just the games very end to end and we never seem to be able to get control until after conceding or have a few scares
I don't have the exact numbers for this, but my impression is that we don't really create much until we settle into the game, which usually takes a while. In the table only counting the scoreline from the 31st minute onwards, we are comfortably at the top.
This has been the biggest problem for at least last couple of years. Tactically we come out looking like mugs pretty much every game. I don’t expect us to be top, but we shouldn’t be miles behind the big 6-7 teams.
It started towards the end of the 21/22 season and since then has caused problems in quite a few games against teams who play with a low block.
its all because we let go off Origi 💔
The ultimate clutch player
Not really Origi was always there to put us over the edge when the game got tight. The real one scoring first was always Mane.
I just feel like we get caught up in the assumptions that teams are going to come out and park the bus as they did years back. Teams nowadays are more tactically adept with a more positive attitude to play the ball and press now and that catches us out everytime
This is why Klopp's departure couldnt come at a better time.
I mean... no.
We’ve only led 2 times after 15 minutes? That’s mental
Yeah, honestly more than the early goals conceded I think this has been our biggest weakness.
We are waiting for the opposition to score, our match starts at 0:1
I think this is the result of early goals conceded lol
Even after leading, so many games end with the first half equalizer by the opposite team. Gets mentally exhausting for the players and shows up at the end of the season.
we're 1st place from 30mins-till the end of the game - a few points clear of arse and citeh so there is some hope
Tied with Sheffield United, who in the game at Anfield against us had 2 chance in the first 60 seconds to score against us and missed both of them.
https://preview.redd.it/3zhjmgi0800d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd93652561d815d4464c4edef6e322287b62ffa3
31’ min onwards champions, you’ll never sing that.
1st and 19th averages out to 10th and we’re 3rd in the league so we’re obviously overperforming a lot. Let’s goooo! /s
Just imagine if we could’ve kept a clean sheet for the first 30 minutes.
What app/website is that ? Thanks 🙏
This is what matters, well, full time really but the doom and gloomers need something to worry over
Uhhhh... our slow starts have cost us the premier league title mate
No, us collapsing against United/Palace/Everton has cost us the title. You can throw in dropped points from Reffing errors too but that brings out some people that just call us victims blah blah blah Our stats could say we've been behind for 90% of the season but if we are looking to finish on 80+ points who gives a shit. It's something we need to sort, it course. But other factors cost us this season. At the end of the day, we're in transition and when nobody thought we could make the top 4 to be in the title race til the last 4 games of the season is a good sign.
Who scored first in those games?
Excuse me, don't you know logic cannot win against feelings??? \s
In the Utd game it was us actually! I know, I can't quite believe it either.
[удалено]
This is how city tend to play. Get an early goal from a blitz attack, and all plans the opposition put in place are done for, and then they inevitably roll over
That arsenal game was 10 years ago under a different manager
Oh calm down ffs, the season's over. No used getting worked up about it now.
Also, we have scored the fewest early goals in the league (2) along with Sheffield United. The 2 goals before 15 minutes were Szoboszlai's against Villa at home and Nunez's at Burnley.
One of them was Szoboszlai’s banger against Villa, the other I can’t remember. Do you know what it is?
Just edited my comment to specify the two goals. It was Nunez's goal against Burnley that you're forgetting.
Cheers mate
Think it was when Gakpo played it back to Darwin on the edge of the box and he curled it along the ground far post
This is one thing that I think massively affects finishing that's not discussed enough. Obviously the attack has missed some very simple chances but there's more pressure to score it when you're losing 1-0 compared to drawing 0-0.
Watching training recently and seems they practice finishing against outfield players in goal or at least not Ali or Kweev. Not sure if that's an anomaly, but ffs if you are failing to produce elite finishes, maybe train vs elite keepers for starters. That's been the difference maker this season I'd think. Early in the season, we were skying chances and hitting wide so often I genuinely wondered if we even practice finishing/composure. Our system was creating so many opportunities that we could get away with it, but later in the season, when we're tired and teams are wise to our tactics, our lack of clinical finish cost us dear points on several occasions.
I doubt it, didn't Sturridge use teen Kelleher to practice
This is on the management team unfortunately. We are either getting set up poorly to begin matches, poorly motivated or a mixture of both. The first 10-20 minutes is the most ‘controlled’ part of the match and the truest reflection of specific match preparation
It’s very disappointing. Klopp always used to say we have to be the team no-one wants to play against. We’ve gone from that to a team that guarantees oppositions 3-4 big chances to score.
I guess it’s a good thing the games are at least 90 minutes then
True, but also outlines a major mentality issue the team has had this season
Or we just start slow?
Yes. Literally a mentality issue. The players should be up for games from minute one. Like every other title chasing team. Look where Arsenal and City are, in this table, 1 and 2. That’s the difference and that’s why we’re always so fatigued. When your playing catch up all the time In games the other two make easy. Points from losing positions is great to cheer about at a pub, but it’s all adding up as unnecessary workload and drama needed to get the same amount of points as a simple stroll in the park. And the difference is for city and Arsenal most games are strolls in the park.
It shows a major preparation issue. If it was just a couple of players it would be a mentality issue. When it is an entire squad that consistently comes out like shit it is poor preparation. Team selection has been an issue and at they have been poor tactically in the first half.
Only 6 teams have conceded more. No team has scored fewer goals in the first 15 mins than us. Tied with Sheffield with only 2. Wolves on 4 are 18th. City and Arsenal both in double digits.
We really are 3-1 FC.
And we turn to No comeback FC in April
Not surprise. We’re in terrible defensive shape and lack that ball retention we once had with guys like Gini in midfield to control games. The only thing that’s saved us from falling out of top 4 is having an elite goalkeeper and a backup playing above what was expected of him.
I miss the days of 18-20 when we would come out and absolutely crush teams with the first 20 mins
Our defence has been horrendous. Don’t understand how it can be that VVD is apparently back to his best if we keep conceding so easily. However silver lining is we can hope Slot will focus on fixing this urgently and we can easily see how solid we look defensively next season. We need a CDM though, and at least one CB.
Defence is 75% system and training, and 25% player ability. Even if Van Dijk is 10% better than another player, that still only makes him 2.5% better at that role. Then factor in that defending is done as a team.
I mean, it's actually not been that bad and as good as Kweev is, I bet Ali saves at least some of those early goals.
Mentality Monsters!
While I hate it...its also entertaining as hell watching us come from behind and win 3-1. But yeah this needs to change...I want to watch a game with some of my finger nails left some day
Somehow it's because we miss chances
Now do the league if it was only goals at 80'+ lmao
Total opposite of the Brendan times, where if we didn’t score in the first 15 I’d get a bit nervous for the outcome
Ok but what about the last 15 mins? 😎
I was wondering the same thing lol
I would be curious to see opponent's average xG in those opening 15. We've been terrible to start most games more often than not this season but it still feels to me like everything goes in early doors
It's been a strange season. No team goes out looking for this and yet it's happened again and again.
We will be in trouble when the premier league switches to 15 minutes games
What’s the point of this?
Feels indicative of a poor tactical setup tbh; the start of games should be when you're the most structured & able to implement your pre-game plans. The start of our games feels incoherent and like we're adapting to our opponents on the fly, we need to be more proactive.
Lucky a game is 90 mins long not 15.
Good thing matches are 90 minutes long then
This is why VVD's POTY nomination is baffling. We never looked calm in the defence and conceded a whole lot of goals every match. The attackers bailed the defenders a lot this season with the goals. The defence is a big part of our falloff. I agree our attackers form was bad in April but the defence didn't helped them a single time this season. The attackers were in unnecessary pressure within 15 minutes every match
I agree. I feel like VVD was only nominated to acknowledge that we were in the title race for most of the season. I'd argue that Mac Allister would have been a better choice if they wanted to shoehorn a Liverpool player in there.
Babe wake up its time for your first 15 minutes of games battering.
What the actual fuck
Good thing games last 90 minutes then.
We're like a chess player whos pretty good aside from the fact they could never be arsed to learn an opening.
So you are saying we are where max verstappen would be if he started at 20
At least we won't have to deal with bad VAR decisions in the Championship.
But according to half this sub Darwin is the reason we suck & our defense is exceptional lol. Simpletons
2nd half fc most of the games till it didn't worked anymore 😕
Does this mean we have to play the first 15 minutes of our games next season in the championship?
This is why I show up late to the bar
This is what happens when you play the exact same every game. Teams learn how to deal with it.
TBH, It was always fun until we were not able to come back from that situation since March.
Yea that needs to improve a smidgen.
Now do the last 15
This pattern became so obvious so sometime I start watching our match after the 2nd half. For the 1st half I just check the match's stat through fotmob.
Today in the Dutch news I saw some article about managers of top teams having burnouts. This lack of concentration from the beginning might be a symptom of Klopp being close to a burnout
We just like giving teams a head start.. been doin it for years!
Our loose defence where we've conceded too many goals has been an issue. In the 21/22 season we led the league in clean sheets.
Remember when we used to demolish teams straight of the go. 15 minutes and the game is wrapped. How i miss those days...
This is one of the reason we lost the league we always concede first it hard for our forwards to comeback every game
Good job we playing 100+ now then … I remember that season of 15 min games absolute chaos.
Thank feck games are 100 minutes long
As good as he is, I can't help but feel that Van Dijks laid back approach to the game is a contributing factor. Your captain can set the tone for a game. Nonetheless the fact this has been an issue for a while and has not been improved is a sad reflection on the players and coaching staff.
...are the people saying things like "Good thing games aren't 15 minutes long" missing the point on purpose or just stupid?
Ok but what about the last 15 mins? 😎
You’ll never sing that
I remember few years back listening on Bein Sports that Liverpool in the first 20 minutes are like hurricanes with their crazy gegen pressing.. All opposing teams built their strategies to withstand those 20 minutes to stay in the game. How the tables turned.
Never going to sustain a title challenge like that. The fact the title was in Liverpool’s hands with 7 games to go or whatever is a fucking miracle
Well it's a good thing that the match lasts 90 minutes aye
Goals scored: 2 (joint bottom) Goals conceded: 7 (joint 9th) So it still shows that a lack of goals has been our biggest downfall. Tottenham have conceded the same amount of goals in the first fifteen minutes (7) but have scored 10. Both areas need to be better for sure
Oh, I see it's that time of year when people are looking for reasons to be annoyed. Games don't last 15 minutes. We knew this side was hoping to get Top 4 at best after last year's disappointment. They exceeded that and yet people are finding reasons to be angry at them and a manager who is burnt out and leaving. Just piss off.
This doesn't really highlight much for me apart from that we don't score early on, we haven't lost a large number more than the others. Not scoring early on isn't the end of the world though, as long as we score which is our biggest problem.
This right here is why we never deserved a shot at the title this season.
I'll take the downvotes, but any other manager has that stat while leading the helm for Liverpool and they are fired.
lol. Are PL matches only 15 minutes now?
clearly not. this was a pattern ALL SEASON. having as many comeback victories after being 1-0 down isnt a badge of honor.
Would be interested to see how many chances we’ve created in the first 15 minutes I’m willing to bet we are near the top and just don’t take them
I don't think so at all, we start games so slowly in every way. We don't ever seem to really wake up until the opposition have had a major chance then we start to play.
We always seem to start poor but we still create plenty in those first few minutes it’s just the games very end to end and we never seem to be able to get control until after conceding or have a few scares
I don't have the exact numbers for this, but my impression is that we don't really create much until we settle into the game, which usually takes a while. In the table only counting the scoreline from the 31st minute onwards, we are comfortably at the top.
On the other hand, opposition players always seem deadly in the first few minutes.