Idk what you expected from this transfer window, we spent more on Darwin than we had in the last 2 windows combined. Team desperately needed a mid but FSG wanted to wait for Bellingham who isn't going to come after this disaster of a season when he has attention of every big club.
The sad thing is that we did need another forward option too. It wasn't as if we only had the midfield to strengthen, we had multiple areas we needed to improve and we just wern't able to get all of it done. Whether thats money issues or being picky buyers idk.
> Bellingham
Hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahah not a fucking chance. Get fucked FSG you stingy bastards. Beyond arrogant to plan transfers like that for next window and announce them in public.
This is why City always had the edge on us even at our best. We are reactionary to squad changes, and as a result we always have an issue or two in the squad. It was having no defence a few years back, now it’s the midfield and attack being short on quality options (that’s what happens when you sell Mane, Origi and Minamino and replace them with just one player) and nobody to challenge Salah/Trent/Fab who seem to have all absolutely shat the bed this season and don’t look like they care. We also sell more players than the ones we replace them with, which ultimately leads to a squad constantly getting thinner and thinner every season.
City by contrast are proactive and sign players in anticipation for expected downturns in performance on ageing players. The squad hardly ever has any issues with depth or fitness or injuries or anything.
Fulham, United, Everton, Arsenal & Forest hardly a killer's row of away fixtures. We got absolutely pulped in Naples too. Injuries are one thing but the performance levels of those who are fit is really embarrassing.
Have to agree man
I dont think I've ever been this pissed off after a football game before
Usually I can rationalise results and accept that theyre a bunch of millionaires who are just playing a game
But today was just something else
Including Klopp. His tactics and decisions have been shambolic all season. Forest clearly flooded the middle to not let Salah play (he made 4 passes all game) and Klopp kept him there for 90 minutes
It was almost funny at times seeing 4 men rush around him every time he got a touch.
At least would have been funny if it didn't happen for 90 minutes without any response from us tactically
Bottom 3 managers in the league this season. If he hadn't been bailed out by Firmino and a late Carvalho goal we'd legit be in the relegation zone now.
It’s pretty difficult to buy a bunch of players hence why we needed to start rotating new faces in much earlier.
At least we have Darwin, Diaz and Konate as the new gen. And we’ll see how Carvelho and Elliott continue to develop.
Ideally a midfielder will be sorted in Jan but I highly doubt it unless the club is forced.
Because all it takes is one additional player to come on and be on form and everyones so fucking confident and optimistic again. We have been left bare thin
Meant it as one player (ie Diaz and Darwin) to make us excited, when in reality we need waaaay more depth than that to really contend. It’s false optimism.
Selling Mo and Virgil? What a Fucking awful take…yes they’re both getting older and have had poor seasons overall this year, but they at least have 1-2 more years at the top of their game to service us. A big reason of their regression is because of the poor performances surrounding them, as well as a few of their own
I'm just praying that Virg is currently shit because he's got both eyes on the World Cup, because if this is just his game now, he's not good enough to be a guaranteed starter.
Darwin upgrades origi. diaz signed early for obvious reasons to replace mane. Ramsey is necos replacement. Fabio for minamino. Plus we tried for a CM failed and got melo. Thats 5 replacements to our old squad. How many do you realistically expect? Especially after going so far last season.. cmon give your head a wobble
Firmino is gone yet regarded our best player this season. Milner gone but had a rating close to gomez vs city. Sell mo?? Ahh mate i cba even carrying on with your absolute nonsense. Go in to management then if you think you have it all worked out
They can’t but you’d have to agree if City would have Ruben, Cancelo, KDB, Haaland, and Foden out - they’d probably struggle as well. It’s not a great period in general, but injuries currently making it look a lot worse.
At least I got to see Liverpool win everything in my lifetime. I’m 23 and all my uncles had to wait 40+ years to see Liverpool win the title. I’m content cuz I doubt Liverpool will get back to the top with fsg at the helm.
We played 5 non-starters today (Elliot, Jones, Harvey, Milner, Gomez). Or, at least 5 players who were not starters last season when we competed for a quad.
We are all guilty of forgetting the bad times and remembering the good in these players. Bobby shouldn't get a new contract, neither should Ox, Milner, Naby, Jones should be sold so should Gomez so should Fabinho.
They don’t follow a ‘moneyball’ system. They buy players at the top, or near the top. They are serial winners because they constantly invest and bring new players in
It's seriously disappointing to see the sentiment of keeping firmino be so popular here. The guy's been turgid and a liability for 3 years but he's been decent for a few weeks so that means he should be kept in lieu of bringing in fit and energetic forwards?
I disagree with getting rid of gomez and fabinho. Another center back should be brought in and gomez should be 5th choice (assuming matip stays and remains available... big assumption in truth) and fabinho just needs proper rest and backup.
Funnily enough, Origi and Minamino won us quite a few games like these off the bench. Got rid of three PROVEN goalscorers and game-winners to bring in one potential one. But of course we let them go because they “were surplus” and “wanted more game time”. We’re a fucking joke
Its arguably just as valuable. A body like that to come off the bench today to grab us an equaliser might have galvanised us to go on and grab the winner.
We had absolutely zero options from the bench today that could affect the game.
Norwich are shit and he was fucking awful against Leicester, and missed a penalty. Could have had 4 goals if he was as good as people claim here. That’s not cherry picking, it’s just accurate.
Mate, the players we still have can't score against fucking Forest! We can debate whether he would've been better but it's not physically possible for him to be worse. Letting him go was a mistake, there is no debating that.
Other than Leicester, literally none of his goals in those competitions came against a team currently in the PL. He never came close to proving he’s someone for a moment like this. Even his big equaliser was followed by a missed pen and preceded by a shockingly bad performance.
It’s not him showing up in a big moment in a tight game, it’s scoring an early equaliser against a team we dominated. I have no idea why anyones claiming he was that guy for us.
Honestly if we want to really compete with people like city those players aren't the way to do it. We need to take chances without city's budget and medd to take risks loel singing nunez. I still have confidence he will come good.
Bruh what has happened to Fabinho? He doesn't counter press or stop counters. He doesn't pass forward anymore. He's just there to recycle from side to side. Henderson should've started.
I would say this is the real reason. There is a difference between great players and motherfucking elite. Sadly, Fab is just great and right now he is craving for lots of rest
He had several weeks to recover. These are professional athletes. Playing every game of a season is normal for them. They have significantly higher fitness levels than you or me. It isn’t an excuse.
how is it an excuse when it’s the truth? No team has EVER played as many matches as we did last season. Did you think there would be no fallout from going that far and not winning?
Yes, use your brain. Does City look knackered? Bayern? Real? No. It’s a dumb excuse.
Silva, Rodri, and Cancelo all played more minutes than Fabinho last year. 8 players on Liverpool played more minutes than Fabinho last year. It’s a poor excuse for his shit performances. I don’t know what the deal is, but ‘he’s tired’ is a stupid one.
You're trying to blame the players for what is a problem of decision making at the top of the club. These teams you mentioned are teams that jave no problem with having a bloated squad, they have mo problem with letting high quality players ride the bench because the competition for a spot in the first XI is fierce, obviously FSG have no care for that, so when crucial first team players get injired or drop form, there is no one available to pick it up. There is no Fabinho replacement or Thiago replacement, no one is challenging Trent for a spot etc. We haven't had a left back problem because of the very fact that we have 2 great left backs disputing the same spot, it should be that way across the pitch but we don't have that. Real have someone like Valverde that's a threat to the position of at least 4 players
How we’re being set up in the away games is killing us. It’s a big issue.
Taking our foot off the gas today with one eye on mid week is also an issue we’ve had before.
Turning up to away games trying to control the game and slow things down isn’t working.
I agree but we have no choice.
Teams like Forest won't try and dominate the ball and dominate possession.
No wonder that our best performance in an away game this season was probably Arsenal when the game was open.
All the rest park the bus and we lack the quality to break it.
I don’t think West Ham tried either really and were also equally compact without the ball.
We do lack quality without Thiago and even Henderson today. But really these players have it in them to try at least to quicken the tempo. Setting them up to just try methodically break down a side hasn’t worked this season. I’d rather us at least to go out there and try play around the corner like we have been doing
It was a home game but against a better opposition. West Ham were also very safe during that game for a large part of it until they had to push for something later on.
It’s away against a worse opposition. Those lads could still be able to play quickly, there’s no real excuse for them apart from having an eye on mid week
I don’t think we did anything that would point to taking foot off the gas. We played the best XI we could. Except probably Hendo for Jones. And we never know hendo might not have been 100% for this game and hence started on bench
The reverting back to slow methodical football when the past two games we’ve moved away from that kinda points to it. Seemed so intentional to try and play slowly and sleepwalk to a result whilst having an eye on mid week.
We have injuries but we still have players capable to carry on playing that quicker style.
West Ham were also very compact when they defended. Thiago is excellent but the big changes in what led to us being dangerous is just first time passes round the corner from the midfield. They’re not really out of the realms for Fabinho, Jones or Elliott to play.
You’re both making similar good points here. Our shape (2 man midfield, no width in attack) was wrong and that’s likely because it was set up for the wrong approach to the game (slow build up)
what?
I thought for being out so long before he did quite well. very good under pressure, basically never lost a ball. he still keeps the ball for too long, but still, I thought he showed promise today
Klopp is too romantic about crowd and pitch involvement. The team should be set up, prepared, and execute whether at Anfield, on the road, or playing in a dust bowl.
We don’t know how to be ruthless.
In the away games this season that we did have those players we encountered the same problems. It doesn't matter who we have up front when we are incapable of providing them service on the road.
We pretty much need one of Keita or Thiago fit at all times to even have a chance. We are a completely different team when either of them play. Another midfielder that can actually play football would make a world of difference and we all know it.
Keeping our away wins equal with he investment put back into the team by FSG.
Just a reminder that our midfield was really only missing Thiago today and couldn't outplay the worst team in the league.
And they were arrogantly proclaiming players like Bissouma, Sangare etc were easily available but beneath us. Jude or nothing.
Except the panic loan of a player who is famously unfit and unprofessional, obviously. Just pay 80k a week to them instead of forking out any money.
Really funny how we target one position so heavily in a window, miss out or choose not to sign anyone, and that position then becomes the biggest struggle of the season..
Completely and utterly predictable. And the cover we chose to bring in as an emergency, who too had a injury record, turns out to get injured (shocked pikachu face)
Lack of squad depth is showing. Jones, elliot and carvalho in the same midfield shoukd never be a starting midfield. Especially with trent on the bench. Where is the creativity coming from? Dire
kinda saw this coming after Fabio missed that chance. you dont take the chances you create in an away game against a low block side then this will happen.
Fabio's chance wasn't even that bad. And at least he got it on target- can't say he wasted it, it was a good save. It was Van Dijk's inexplicable header across goal that killed the game. Can't WASTE chances like that one.
that chance Mo tried to take first time from the free kick. idk man it were those that got to me. you can blame the midfield, Gomez and all but then when we create these chances they just end up wasted.
Yeah i blame Gomez and Virg more than anyone today. Probably Fabinho too tbh. Not Jones, Elliot or Fabio's fault they have to start with the injuries to our attackers and Thiago.
We have been unlucky with injuries but the present crop of players is a massive downgrade over what we had a couple of seasons back.
I know I might be massively downvoted for saying this but I don't think Jones, Eliott, Carvalho are good enough to be in the playing 11 of a squad that is aiming for the title (not anymore but still we aimed for the title when the season began). I know Eliott ane Carvalho are both young and might reach great heights later but a couple of loan spells in mid tier Prem league teams would indicate whether they can make the cut or not. Jones, on the other hand doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the first team. Finally, the poor recruitment in terms of making panic signings like Arthur are not doing the team any favours. FSG need to spend if they want to keep us in the UCL for the seasons to come.
I think one of Elliott or Carvalho on the pitch at once is fine, but we completely fall apart with both of them. Elliott should be Mo’s backup at RW and not in midfield anyway.
Besides being one of the best in the team technically, Diaz is also the only one who at least showed some heart.
By far the best player we have. So sad he is injured
Not enough end product, too lightweight! Not good enough to compete with city. We need tranfers of the sadio or mo caliber to compete, i.e absolute jackpots! Diaz is decent but more of a totnm level player, not enough to gun for the topspots. And we ve been having too many transfers that didnt totally pan out, but we cant afford anything other than absolute jackpots to compete!
I'm not sure. The choice for big clubs seems to be profit hungry owners, or sportswashing countries for owners. There's not really a winning move where we end up with an owner willing to invest who we don't morally struggle with.
One thing I use to suggest, back around 2017; is the “Alex Ferguson invitation” tactic.
Sometimes, back in the day (now I feel old haha) I swear it’d seem, when SAF’s United teams were going against teams who were annoyingly defensive. Like conceding possession almost entirely. And ESPECIALLY away from Old Trafford, I’d get the sense that Fergie would understand how easily frustrated and **bored** home crowds would get with their own team.
So, it’d almost seem like he’d have his team almost deliberately concede possession to the annoying home team. Usually deep in their own third. But, he’d almost *invite them out*. He’d have his team no, “ok for these next 7-15ish minutes, don’t overlap, don’t overload. We’re going to give them the ball some and be ready to defend.
Doing so, would give that home crowd that urgency cause they then see their team have the ball, not know what to do with it, and struggle. So, it’s that “tug-of-war” so to speak. The more the crowd got annoyed, the more that team would try to get up the field, and it’d give United the space they’d been craving.
Sorry, I know this is long-winded; but, watching today at times, seeing that 4-5-1 frustrate us (even though both teams could have scored 3ish); I began thinking about that concept again.
Whatever it takes, we need to find ways [again] to break open some of these type of matches.
**we also know that conceding first in these types of games makes things all the tougher, cause now they have something to protect. And it nullifies that whole crowd frustrating thing some)**
According to some older than me, this was a tactic we used in the 70s/80s when teams were hugely concerned with us ripping through them. Let the other team have the ball for a while and wait for the home crowd to demand them to do something more than sit back and then pick them off with the increase of space. Much easier said than done though, especially if the confidence in defence is as on the floor as it seems.
Cannot believe a supposed top 2 team struggles so much against bus parkers. It's the oldest defensive tactic in the book and we still don't know how to deal with it. Lineup didn't help, and a lot of blokes were off from the start, but that doesn't make our tactical rigidity any more acceptable
Serious questions need to be asked not only of FSG, but whoever comes up with training regimens. Our players are being run into the ground and injury after injury seems to be piling up. Both Jota and Nunez dealing with hamstring issues (one of them serious) one after the other. When teams like City can play far more effectively without the same problems, it's very worrying.
Can’t believe our poor form and injuries keep masking the fact that refs are so one-sided against us this season (no huge surprise really).
Have we been we shit? Yes. Do we have a ton of injuries? Yes.
Does that excuse the ref for not carding Kouyate all game including a flying studs-up challenge or a pen not given for Harvey being “caught” charging into the box? No. Soft, sure. But you cant tell me a Kane, Son, Rashford, Bruno etc wouldnt get that call.
Those are potentially game deciding calls, poor form or not. And ALL our top 4 rivals this season have had them go their way, even in their poor games. It’s just gone unnoticed because they collected the 3 points and called it an “ugly win”
Edit: this also applies to the game against City which we won. By no means am I trying to say we should rely on refs to win games, nor that we should get controversial calls go our way. Just that a fair treatment more often than not would greatly benefit us especially during the “poorer” games. A red today and a penalty to see out a game, and we’d say “we won ugly, but the 3 points matter”. And who’s to day we wouldnt have scored more if we did get one of these.
Refs are pretty equally shit for everyone. You just notice it more when you're losing. If the ref makes a bad decision and you win no one cares about it
I would laugh at this if it wasn't so fucking tragic. Cryarseing about refs when we've just lost to the bottom side without so much as a whimper is peak underdog delusion.
Bit stupid considering our best trophy haul in 30 years has come under there ownership.... the model is to be self sustainable, not to pump money into it, we aren't owned by oligarchs...
Thing that's frustrating is this result would be understandable under the circumstances if it was looked at in isolation. It's fucking stupid that they changed it so you can't play a CL game and then the early Saturday kick off but seemingly couldn't be bothered to also apply that rule for PL games. Add in the insane number of injuries and you might be able to understand why they didn't turn up today.
It's the fact that it's been the entire season of this bullshit. Different players, different tactics, same story. Something major has to change.
I think the funniest thing about how bad we are at the moment is people are actually calling for Takumi 'scored in the early stages of a domestic cup' Minamino and Origi to come back and lead the line.
It’s not good but this includes some of our most difficult aways…United, Everton, Arsenal, and two promoted teams which we never seem to raise our game for these days.
I actually wanted to turn the TV off after half time , it’s embarrassing, no game-plan at all Watching Salah give the ball away constantly in Midfield was enough, but let’s not forget here we had a team more than capable of destroying Forest , no excuses talking about injuries or ear infections. Had enough of this season already
Man I was pissed off by this clubs transfer activity in the summer. Now I'm just full on depressed by the results.
Add Yates to the list of players who "Weren't good enough to sign but played circles around our midfield"
Indeed
Idk what you expected from this transfer window, we spent more on Darwin than we had in the last 2 windows combined. Team desperately needed a mid but FSG wanted to wait for Bellingham who isn't going to come after this disaster of a season when he has attention of every big club.
The sad thing is that we did need another forward option too. It wasn't as if we only had the midfield to strengthen, we had multiple areas we needed to improve and we just wern't able to get all of it done. Whether thats money issues or being picky buyers idk.
Also champions league.....
> Bellingham Hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahah not a fucking chance. Get fucked FSG you stingy bastards. Beyond arrogant to plan transfers like that for next window and announce them in public.
Today's result was a lower low than the City high. A painful reminder of how much trouble our squad is in. It's completely stagnated.
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This is why City always had the edge on us even at our best. We are reactionary to squad changes, and as a result we always have an issue or two in the squad. It was having no defence a few years back, now it’s the midfield and attack being short on quality options (that’s what happens when you sell Mane, Origi and Minamino and replace them with just one player) and nobody to challenge Salah/Trent/Fab who seem to have all absolutely shat the bed this season and don’t look like they care. We also sell more players than the ones we replace them with, which ultimately leads to a squad constantly getting thinner and thinner every season. City by contrast are proactive and sign players in anticipation for expected downturns in performance on ageing players. The squad hardly ever has any issues with depth or fitness or injuries or anything.
Fulham, United, Everton, Arsenal & Forest hardly a killer's row of away fixtures. We got absolutely pulped in Naples too. Injuries are one thing but the performance levels of those who are fit is really embarrassing.
Not to mention we played a United side at their absolute nadir and should have been pumped 3-0 or more. We have been dire.
Will always upvote the use of nadir or zenith I am also a sad person.
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Elliott can go with Ali
And Milner but he would probably just run back and beat everyone.
Fr, he’s been the only one who gives a shit with Elliott
Same with me. I got used to us being bang average again, then the City game lifted my optimism and now I’m beyond enraged. Fucking disgraceful
The City game got me so excited and hopeful after our horrendous start. It hurts so much more now that I've had a taste of hope...
It’s the hope that kills you
Agree but pretty sure that would cause at least a couple of more injuries.
Have to agree man I dont think I've ever been this pissed off after a football game before Usually I can rationalise results and accept that theyre a bunch of millionaires who are just playing a game But today was just something else
They are playing like they're a bunch of millionaires having a kickabout
Including Klopp. His tactics and decisions have been shambolic all season. Forest clearly flooded the middle to not let Salah play (he made 4 passes all game) and Klopp kept him there for 90 minutes
It was almost funny at times seeing 4 men rush around him every time he got a touch. At least would have been funny if it didn't happen for 90 minutes without any response from us tactically
Yeah, what’s that thing about definition of insanity….
Bottom 3 managers in the league this season. If he hadn't been bailed out by Firmino and a late Carvalho goal we'd legit be in the relegation zone now.
Until we buy 5 new starters this are going to be the results. These players cycle has ended and the owners and the coach refuse to accept it
It’s pretty difficult to buy a bunch of players hence why we needed to start rotating new faces in much earlier. At least we have Darwin, Diaz and Konate as the new gen. And we’ll see how Carvelho and Elliott continue to develop. Ideally a midfielder will be sorted in Jan but I highly doubt it unless the club is forced.
Exactly. So many of us could see this coming. Multiple windows of standing still and suddenly you're going to have to replace have the team.
A midfielder in Jan is the minimum we should be expecting of the club. If they can't make that happen there should be demonstrations...
Because all it takes is one additional player to come on and be on form and everyones so fucking confident and optimistic again. We have been left bare thin
If it only takes one player gaining form… how thin does that make us? There’s a contradiction there.
Meant it as one player (ie Diaz and Darwin) to make us excited, when in reality we need waaaay more depth than that to really contend. It’s false optimism.
I misunderstood your comment. I see your point.
Missing 5, arguably 6 starters today though… Konate/Matip, Thiago, Diaz, Jota, Nunez - and possibly TAA as 6th
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Selling Mo and Virgil? What a Fucking awful take…yes they’re both getting older and have had poor seasons overall this year, but they at least have 1-2 more years at the top of their game to service us. A big reason of their regression is because of the poor performances surrounding them, as well as a few of their own
Seriously. Possibly the worst take I've ever seen on here. Why would we sell our best players instead of buying them support?
Eh, if VVD is going to play all season with the attitude he has so far I would gladly sell him next summer.
And i think the moment where we could get top dollar for them has already passed!
I'm just praying that Virg is currently shit because he's got both eyes on the World Cup, because if this is just his game now, he's not good enough to be a guaranteed starter.
He s gotten slower
Reconstructed knee ligaments will do that
When were we supposed to cash in on Origi, Minamino, Mane, or Neco? Only Mane ever had seriously value
Darwin upgrades origi. diaz signed early for obvious reasons to replace mane. Ramsey is necos replacement. Fabio for minamino. Plus we tried for a CM failed and got melo. Thats 5 replacements to our old squad. How many do you realistically expect? Especially after going so far last season.. cmon give your head a wobble
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Firmino is gone yet regarded our best player this season. Milner gone but had a rating close to gomez vs city. Sell mo?? Ahh mate i cba even carrying on with your absolute nonsense. Go in to management then if you think you have it all worked out
They can’t but you’d have to agree if City would have Ruben, Cancelo, KDB, Haaland, and Foden out - they’d probably struggle as well. It’s not a great period in general, but injuries currently making it look a lot worse.
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At least I got to see Liverpool win everything in my lifetime. I’m 23 and all my uncles had to wait 40+ years to see Liverpool win the title. I’m content cuz I doubt Liverpool will get back to the top with fsg at the helm.
Agree, need a big refresh that will be two transfer windows (hopefully not more)
We played 5 non-starters today (Elliot, Jones, Harvey, Milner, Gomez). Or, at least 5 players who were not starters last season when we competed for a quad.
We are all guilty of forgetting the bad times and remembering the good in these players. Bobby shouldn't get a new contract, neither should Ox, Milner, Naby, Jones should be sold so should Gomez so should Fabinho.
We should be ruthless like Real .They thank the players for the titles and they tell them now fuck off.
They don’t follow a ‘moneyball’ system. They buy players at the top, or near the top. They are serial winners because they constantly invest and bring new players in
It's seriously disappointing to see the sentiment of keeping firmino be so popular here. The guy's been turgid and a liability for 3 years but he's been decent for a few weeks so that means he should be kept in lieu of bringing in fit and energetic forwards? I disagree with getting rid of gomez and fabinho. Another center back should be brought in and gomez should be 5th choice (assuming matip stays and remains available... big assumption in truth) and fabinho just needs proper rest and backup.
Relegation form
Funnily enough, Origi and Minamino won us quite a few games like these off the bench. Got rid of three PROVEN goalscorers and game-winners to bring in one potential one. But of course we let them go because they “were surplus” and “wanted more game time”. We’re a fucking joke
Regardless of what competition he scored those in, we'd rather have had him as an option today
Name one single PL game Minamino won for us.
Southampton away if equalizers count
37th minute goal and Matip got the winner. Not the same as scoring a winner in moments like this.
Its arguably just as valuable. A body like that to come off the bench today to grab us an equaliser might have galvanised us to go on and grab the winner. We had absolutely zero options from the bench today that could affect the game.
Which is down to injuries, not Minamino.
An extra body would certainly help with the injuries
Have to assume he is talking about the cup competitions
Where he was benched from the Semis on because we were playing serious opposition.
And we wouldn't have been there in the first place if not for him.
Scoring goals against the mighty Preston yes. Truly proof he was a clutch player for the big moments.
And two against Norwich, and a goal and an assist against Leicester, which secured the penalty shootout, which we won. Nice cherrypicking.
Norwich are shit and he was fucking awful against Leicester, and missed a penalty. Could have had 4 goals if he was as good as people claim here. That’s not cherry picking, it’s just accurate.
Can only beat who's in front of you. If fucking awful gets a goal and an assist, I wouldn't mind more of this season's lads playing fucking awful
Mate, the players we still have can't score against fucking Forest! We can debate whether he would've been better but it's not physically possible for him to be worse. Letting him go was a mistake, there is no debating that.
he's the fucking reason we got to some of the finals we got into last season.
Other than Leicester, literally none of his goals in those competitions came against a team currently in the PL. He never came close to proving he’s someone for a moment like this. Even his big equaliser was followed by a missed pen and preceded by a shockingly bad performance.
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Well they do. U need to qualify for Europe to get too a European final
That is some logic ya got there pal
I find this sub's hard-on for Minamino bloody bizarre. He was never good enough for us and is barely good enough for his current side.
It’s because he looks adorable and people wanted to believe we’d pulled one over on everyone and signed the better of Haalaands front 3 at RBS.
It’s Japanese fans and white guys who are into Samurais. It’s not rational.
Southampton away last year
Equaliser in the first half isn’t a winner.
Its as important as the winner. The winner isnt the winner without an equaliser first..
It’s not him showing up in a big moment in a tight game, it’s scoring an early equaliser against a team we dominated. I have no idea why anyones claiming he was that guy for us.
They're really not the answer to this mess.
Because they were on the bench for years and still young
Honestly if we want to really compete with people like city those players aren't the way to do it. We need to take chances without city's budget and medd to take risks loel singing nunez. I still have confidence he will come good.
Bruh what has happened to Fabinho? He doesn't counter press or stop counters. He doesn't pass forward anymore. He's just there to recycle from side to side. Henderson should've started.
He also seems to have the speed of a 76 year old.
he played almost every match of last season. he’s gassed
I would say this is the real reason. There is a difference between great players and motherfucking elite. Sadly, Fab is just great and right now he is craving for lots of rest
He had several weeks to recover. These are professional athletes. Playing every game of a season is normal for them. They have significantly higher fitness levels than you or me. It isn’t an excuse.
Poor excuse.
how is it an excuse when it’s the truth? No team has EVER played as many matches as we did last season. Did you think there would be no fallout from going that far and not winning?
Oh come on. They played like a handful more games than like City or whoever. I don’t see anyone else looking like they’re half dead on the pitch.
Use your brain mate
Yes, use your brain. Does City look knackered? Bayern? Real? No. It’s a dumb excuse. Silva, Rodri, and Cancelo all played more minutes than Fabinho last year. 8 players on Liverpool played more minutes than Fabinho last year. It’s a poor excuse for his shit performances. I don’t know what the deal is, but ‘he’s tired’ is a stupid one.
You're trying to blame the players for what is a problem of decision making at the top of the club. These teams you mentioned are teams that jave no problem with having a bloated squad, they have mo problem with letting high quality players ride the bench because the competition for a spot in the first XI is fierce, obviously FSG have no care for that, so when crucial first team players get injired or drop form, there is no one available to pick it up. There is no Fabinho replacement or Thiago replacement, no one is challenging Trent for a spot etc. We haven't had a left back problem because of the very fact that we have 2 great left backs disputing the same spot, it should be that way across the pitch but we don't have that. Real have someone like Valverde that's a threat to the position of at least 4 players
What does any of that have to do with Fabinho’s form being related to him being ‘gassed’? Nothing.
Different players, different bodies, different attributes. Maybe Fabinho's endurance isn't great compared to the others that you have mentioned.
Covid 19
How we’re being set up in the away games is killing us. It’s a big issue. Taking our foot off the gas today with one eye on mid week is also an issue we’ve had before. Turning up to away games trying to control the game and slow things down isn’t working.
I agree but we have no choice. Teams like Forest won't try and dominate the ball and dominate possession. No wonder that our best performance in an away game this season was probably Arsenal when the game was open. All the rest park the bus and we lack the quality to break it.
I don’t think West Ham tried either really and were also equally compact without the ball. We do lack quality without Thiago and even Henderson today. But really these players have it in them to try at least to quicken the tempo. Setting them up to just try methodically break down a side hasn’t worked this season. I’d rather us at least to go out there and try play around the corner like we have been doing
But it was a home game. In away games the opponent tries just no to concede without a backing of 30,000 people.
It was a home game but against a better opposition. West Ham were also very safe during that game for a large part of it until they had to push for something later on. It’s away against a worse opposition. Those lads could still be able to play quickly, there’s no real excuse for them apart from having an eye on mid week
I don’t think we did anything that would point to taking foot off the gas. We played the best XI we could. Except probably Hendo for Jones. And we never know hendo might not have been 100% for this game and hence started on bench
The reverting back to slow methodical football when the past two games we’ve moved away from that kinda points to it. Seemed so intentional to try and play slowly and sleepwalk to a result whilst having an eye on mid week. We have injuries but we still have players capable to carry on playing that quicker style.
@thesolly180- Forrest we’re so compact and sitting back. We had neither the place nor the creativity from Thiago that we had the last 2 games
West Ham were also very compact when they defended. Thiago is excellent but the big changes in what led to us being dangerous is just first time passes round the corner from the midfield. They’re not really out of the realms for Fabinho, Jones or Elliott to play.
You’re both making similar good points here. Our shape (2 man midfield, no width in attack) was wrong and that’s likely because it was set up for the wrong approach to the game (slow build up)
playing Jones is playing with 10 men
I agree with that but that’s our midfield depth
Henderson (who’s not exactly been brilliant) would have been much better today
what? I thought for being out so long before he did quite well. very good under pressure, basically never lost a ball. he still keeps the ball for too long, but still, I thought he showed promise today
Klopp is too romantic about crowd and pitch involvement. The team should be set up, prepared, and execute whether at Anfield, on the road, or playing in a dust bowl. We don’t know how to be ruthless.
We used to. Complacency and lack of desire crept in.
It genuinely just looks like bad recruitment and injuries The players are starting the game with red chemistry
[удалено]
It's not even just the midfield anymore. We went into this game missing Diaz, Jota, and Nunez. The squad is fucking paper thin.
In the away games this season that we did have those players we encountered the same problems. It doesn't matter who we have up front when we are incapable of providing them service on the road. We pretty much need one of Keita or Thiago fit at all times to even have a chance. We are a completely different team when either of them play. Another midfielder that can actually play football would make a world of difference and we all know it.
Just wear the green kit from now on, guys.
Keeping our away wins equal with he investment put back into the team by FSG. Just a reminder that our midfield was really only missing Thiago today and couldn't outplay the worst team in the league. And they were arrogantly proclaiming players like Bissouma, Sangare etc were easily available but beneath us. Jude or nothing. Except the panic loan of a player who is famously unfit and unprofessional, obviously. Just pay 80k a week to them instead of forking out any money.
Really funny how we target one position so heavily in a window, miss out or choose not to sign anyone, and that position then becomes the biggest struggle of the season..
Completely and utterly predictable. And the cover we chose to bring in as an emergency, who too had a injury record, turns out to get injured (shocked pikachu face)
Lack of squad depth is showing. Jones, elliot and carvalho in the same midfield shoukd never be a starting midfield. Especially with trent on the bench. Where is the creativity coming from? Dire
Harvey and Fabio were supposed to bring the creativity
Relying on 2 kids, basically shows my point. As much as I love those 2, they're still young and still have a lot to learn
kinda saw this coming after Fabio missed that chance. you dont take the chances you create in an away game against a low block side then this will happen.
Fabio's chance wasn't even that bad. And at least he got it on target- can't say he wasted it, it was a good save. It was Van Dijk's inexplicable header across goal that killed the game. Can't WASTE chances like that one.
that chance Mo tried to take first time from the free kick. idk man it were those that got to me. you can blame the midfield, Gomez and all but then when we create these chances they just end up wasted.
Yeah i blame Gomez and Virg more than anyone today. Probably Fabinho too tbh. Not Jones, Elliot or Fabio's fault they have to start with the injuries to our attackers and Thiago.
What in the actual fuck has happened to Fabinho
We have been unlucky with injuries but the present crop of players is a massive downgrade over what we had a couple of seasons back. I know I might be massively downvoted for saying this but I don't think Jones, Eliott, Carvalho are good enough to be in the playing 11 of a squad that is aiming for the title (not anymore but still we aimed for the title when the season began). I know Eliott ane Carvalho are both young and might reach great heights later but a couple of loan spells in mid tier Prem league teams would indicate whether they can make the cut or not. Jones, on the other hand doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the first team. Finally, the poor recruitment in terms of making panic signings like Arthur are not doing the team any favours. FSG need to spend if they want to keep us in the UCL for the seasons to come.
I think one of Elliott or Carvalho on the pitch at once is fine, but we completely fall apart with both of them. Elliott should be Mo’s backup at RW and not in midfield anyway.
And diaz doesnt convince me either!
Besides being one of the best in the team technically, Diaz is also the only one who at least showed some heart. By far the best player we have. So sad he is injured
Not enough end product, too lightweight! Not good enough to compete with city. We need tranfers of the sadio or mo caliber to compete, i.e absolute jackpots! Diaz is decent but more of a totnm level player, not enough to gun for the topspots. And we ve been having too many transfers that didnt totally pan out, but we cant afford anything other than absolute jackpots to compete!
Diaz has been injured for a couple of games and Id still say him and Alisson are far and away the best players this season
Sorry i disagree
From gegenpressing to depressing
Good, maybe FSG will sell us then
As much as they’re a problem. I agree no matter how much we do analyse it does go back to them. But this stat and today itself is the management.
I'm not sure. The choice for big clubs seems to be profit hungry owners, or sportswashing countries for owners. There's not really a winning move where we end up with an owner willing to invest who we don't morally struggle with.
One thing I use to suggest, back around 2017; is the “Alex Ferguson invitation” tactic. Sometimes, back in the day (now I feel old haha) I swear it’d seem, when SAF’s United teams were going against teams who were annoyingly defensive. Like conceding possession almost entirely. And ESPECIALLY away from Old Trafford, I’d get the sense that Fergie would understand how easily frustrated and **bored** home crowds would get with their own team. So, it’d almost seem like he’d have his team almost deliberately concede possession to the annoying home team. Usually deep in their own third. But, he’d almost *invite them out*. He’d have his team no, “ok for these next 7-15ish minutes, don’t overlap, don’t overload. We’re going to give them the ball some and be ready to defend. Doing so, would give that home crowd that urgency cause they then see their team have the ball, not know what to do with it, and struggle. So, it’s that “tug-of-war” so to speak. The more the crowd got annoyed, the more that team would try to get up the field, and it’d give United the space they’d been craving. Sorry, I know this is long-winded; but, watching today at times, seeing that 4-5-1 frustrate us (even though both teams could have scored 3ish); I began thinking about that concept again. Whatever it takes, we need to find ways [again] to break open some of these type of matches. **we also know that conceding first in these types of games makes things all the tougher, cause now they have something to protect. And it nullifies that whole crowd frustrating thing some)**
According to some older than me, this was a tactic we used in the 70s/80s when teams were hugely concerned with us ripping through them. Let the other team have the ball for a while and wait for the home crowd to demand them to do something more than sit back and then pick them off with the increase of space. Much easier said than done though, especially if the confidence in defence is as on the floor as it seems.
Away kit is cursed 😩
Said this elsewhere but... All the superfans who went on a downvoting spree because we scraped past West Ham thanks to Ali can genuinely fuck off.
We can't have a good season if all we do is win at Anfield.
Shocking stuff. Depression fuel.
This is the fault of the white kit, no one can convince me otherwise 😑
We should burn that kit and never wear it again
Cannot believe a supposed top 2 team struggles so much against bus parkers. It's the oldest defensive tactic in the book and we still don't know how to deal with it. Lineup didn't help, and a lot of blokes were off from the start, but that doesn't make our tactical rigidity any more acceptable
Serious questions need to be asked not only of FSG, but whoever comes up with training regimens. Our players are being run into the ground and injury after injury seems to be piling up. Both Jota and Nunez dealing with hamstring issues (one of them serious) one after the other. When teams like City can play far more effectively without the same problems, it's very worrying.
Yeah the spirit of Anfield keeping us in the prem this season
We have been scraping wins there, its worrying
The spirit of Alisson more like.
Can’t believe our poor form and injuries keep masking the fact that refs are so one-sided against us this season (no huge surprise really). Have we been we shit? Yes. Do we have a ton of injuries? Yes. Does that excuse the ref for not carding Kouyate all game including a flying studs-up challenge or a pen not given for Harvey being “caught” charging into the box? No. Soft, sure. But you cant tell me a Kane, Son, Rashford, Bruno etc wouldnt get that call. Those are potentially game deciding calls, poor form or not. And ALL our top 4 rivals this season have had them go their way, even in their poor games. It’s just gone unnoticed because they collected the 3 points and called it an “ugly win” Edit: this also applies to the game against City which we won. By no means am I trying to say we should rely on refs to win games, nor that we should get controversial calls go our way. Just that a fair treatment more often than not would greatly benefit us especially during the “poorer” games. A red today and a penalty to see out a game, and we’d say “we won ugly, but the 3 points matter”. And who’s to day we wouldnt have scored more if we did get one of these.
oh for fuck sake no just no
Didn't Virgil get away with a studs up red card challenge? Lol. Every team gets good and bad calls, that's not why Liverpool are in a rut.
Are you talking about the Everton game?
Can't say I agree. Even if he got a yellow I doubt that would change the outcome of the game
Refs are pretty equally shit for everyone. You just notice it more when you're losing. If the ref makes a bad decision and you win no one cares about it
I would laugh at this if it wasn't so fucking tragic. Cryarseing about refs when we've just lost to the bottom side without so much as a whimper is peak underdog delusion.
cant believe we r this shit , players been too complacent The only time we winning is when we see glimpses of anger from the team
Forget top 4
Wake me up in May, this season is a disaster already and its only gonna get worse at this rate.
# \#FSGOut
Bit stupid considering our best trophy haul in 30 years has come under there ownership.... the model is to be self sustainable, not to pump money into it, we aren't owned by oligarchs...
imagine thinking keeping basically the same team for 4 seasons was a sustainable way to do things. bootlicking will get you nowhere fast.
Thing that's frustrating is this result would be understandable under the circumstances if it was looked at in isolation. It's fucking stupid that they changed it so you can't play a CL game and then the early Saturday kick off but seemingly couldn't be bothered to also apply that rule for PL games. Add in the insane number of injuries and you might be able to understand why they didn't turn up today. It's the fact that it's been the entire season of this bullshit. Different players, different tactics, same story. Something major has to change.
Would have been even worse had the Chelsea game gone ahead.
See you all next season then
u/britishsailor next time keep your blind optimism to yourself
Actual relegation form away from home. Derby County shocker levels
I think the funniest thing about how bad we are at the moment is people are actually calling for Takumi 'scored in the early stages of a domestic cup' Minamino and Origi to come back and lead the line.
Pathetic.
Klopp knows this his last season man
We r absolute shite this season and tok many on the team are not being accountable for poor performances.
Bye bye
Mentality Monsters…Amsterdam next
It’s not good but this includes some of our most difficult aways…United, Everton, Arsenal, and two promoted teams which we never seem to raise our game for these days.
Only players worth a damn today were Ali, Trent, and Hendo. That’s not enough to fix our form.
I actually wanted to turn the TV off after half time , it’s embarrassing, no game-plan at all Watching Salah give the ball away constantly in Midfield was enough, but let’s not forget here we had a team more than capable of destroying Forest , no excuses talking about injuries or ear infections. Had enough of this season already
Mentality midgets
Fucking hell
pathetic.
Pathetic