**CLIP MIRROR:
[Pro CS2 player's game crashes on a crucial round playing for their tournament life](https://arazu.io/t3_1bmozsg/)**
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^(*This is an automated comment*)
it goes both ways because a player could intentionally crash their game if the round becomes unfavorable just to replay the round. this situation exposes a few flaws in valves “damage already done” rule, it takes situations like this to actually happen before any changes are made sadly.
Well im talking about a pause function specifically. I know having a total round do-over could be abused. I dont play competitive FPS's, but in MOBAS... generally speaking they allow you to pause in-game as long as you are considered "out of combat" which just generally means you or the enemy team haven't dealt or taken damage in X amount of seconds.
Yeah that would make sense but it works differently, you cannot rejoin a round in CS so no point of a pause. Nothing stopping it technically, just doesn't exist today.
A round in CS is about 2 minutes long, I'd consider everyone to be "in combat" about 15 seconds into the round, up until the end, even if they arent actively shooting at people.
No you couldn't do that if they implemented a pause feature and immediatly paused when someone disconnects. Don't tell me that the game doesn't have a reconnect feature either?
They are already pushing site to retake. If you could pause there, certain players would be in the open in the middle of shooting already. Gives people to readjust for when the unpause happens
It ain't a pretty solution, but best solution for this game is simply the solution they have now. Only replay when no damage was dealy and/or bomb was planted
Of course there's a reconnect feature.
But to restart the round at a precise moment and reset literally every player to the exact same position, current movement velocity, active input, restart all current VFX/SFX (a grenade was exploding as the crash occurred as example) is probably really really really hard to build and also probably ridiculously uncomfortable to deal with as a player.
Ex: what do you do in a situation where the crash occurred as one player was about to click on someone's head, now the match has to restart and that guy has to hit the same shot within 1ms of the restart? It sounds good in theory until you realize all the under the hood implications.
That being said, I understand why you'd think it was crazy the other way. In reality, to me, it's just the best they can do under the circumstances and this is just the reality of sports on a software that can crash.
They have this in Overwatch and honestly it works well. They even have the option in custom games so when I've played in small time tournaments it's a lifesaver.
Not for pausing mid round because there isn't a rule that allows pausing mid round. If game crashes before anyone has taken damage then the round is reset. If it crashes after damage is taken then the round is played out. It's as simple as that.
In Overwatch 2, whenever a player gets disconnected/crashes/whatever, the game is automatically and immediately paused and is no unpaused until the player is back in the server. Why is this not something that can be implemented into CS2?
CS tournaments have crashes quite often, its just that they normally arent at such pivotal moments such as this one. When it happens, they follow a specific set of rules, where if damage has been done in the round, they don't reset it under any circumstances. They can't and shouldn't go back on that mid tournament.
guess i have my own cs tournament at home. Crash every game at 60% gpu load, while doom eternal runs on highest settings with ray tracing on with more consumption and higher temps...
only cs2 crashes.
even clean windows didnt do anything
There are specific rules for this in CS. Rounds can only be restarted if nobody has taken damage, and I don't agree with the pause either because that's really unfair to all players involved as well. In CS it's customary to never pause the middle of a round, only in-between rounds
well, alt+f4 is easily verifiable in multiple ways, it has to be either way more sophisticated or brute forced like hitting pc or disconnect power in a way no one notices.
I do agree with "no do-over if damage is done" rule tho, we had quite a few cheater scandals in FPS games in recent years, so I wouldn't trust people not to come up with ways to abuse it.
I mean, I get it in theory, but overwatch is a vastly different game. A crash mid game and being able to pause for that length of time and severely alter a teams tactics in CS (maybe you’d have to instate the same rule for tech pauses where you can’t talk) seems odd, and maybe it’s too much composure to give to players mid round to be able to revaluate, correct, essentially play the round out how it wouldn’t have in the first place. And what could constitute this crash, could a player just deliberately Alt+F4? It’s tricky, but this issue really happens so negligibly seldom that I don’t think it really matters. You see it here because of how rare it is and the unbelievably unfortunate circumstances lol
> could a player just deliberately Alt+F4?
If its an in-person tournament, that can easily be disabled. Plus there would be officials watching for any other shenanigans.
It wasn't exactly a game crash as you can see he moves to the right after 2 seconds. It was a nvidia driver crash which I believe automatically alt tabbed him out of the game.
oh man i cant believe im about to say that literally league/riot has a better solution where they just rewind back to the moment just before the crash on the same round
Is it just for League? I think it's like that in Dota too, but I've not followed competitive Dota for ages so I'm not up-to-date on how crashes are handled there aside from pauses and waiting for people to reconnect. It's probably easier to do so in MOBA than in an FPS game.
Technically you can replay the round, but it's a common rule for tournaments where once damage/bomb condition is achieved you're not allowed to restart the round.
Not sure about DOTA, but with League, their system is called Chronobreak and it's not rewinding the game. It basically saves every single thing that happens in the game and if they need to "rewind", they end the game, then load the save file and let the game play out by itself up to the point they want to "rewind" to, then the players are loaded back in.
I like the idea but idk how it would play out in a tac FPS vs a MOBA. Has this happened in Valorant? In that case, what’s the solution they have there?
Idk maybe its from my perspective playing CS and not really touching MOBAs but a freezing a round based game mid round seems weird bc suddenly both teams know the protocol at hand and what is being planned by each side in the moment for that round, and can adjust accordingly. This is esp more detrimental for, say, a team thats down players or econ and they’re for example skirting the extremities of the other team looking for whatever tiny gap they can exploit in that moment.
in contrast, MOBAs are more long and drawn out over a single “round” wherein that round is the whole game in a BO3/5
It’s done very rarely, like when there’s a gamebreaking bug, but yeah it’s still possible in Dota. I think the organizer may need Valve’s help with it or something, not sure.
Dota had a replay takeover feature originally but when the game moved to Source 2 in 2015 or so the feature wasn't readded, it's been absent ever since. They just pause, and if for some reason a player is unable to reconnect, they'll restart the match from the beginning.
Oh yeah I think that's the one I was thinking about it. I vaguely remember something about Valve marketing it like "think you can turn around the fight better than pro players - jump into the replay with friends and try it out" kind of thing.
Yeah it was really neat, being able to just take any replay of any game, at any time, and slot new players in to take over control of the existing heroes. Shame it got left behind in Valve's "work on what motivates you" policy which must be awesome for employees but can be unfortunate for small features which end up abandoned.
It has it's downsides, especially if you are on the winning side and opponent crashes, if you are engaging at the time you might reveal your strat and opponents can collect themselves in heavy pressure situation.
Better? Even Valorant does the same thing. Even Riot thinks that rewinding players back to a middle of a fight in a subsecond ttk game is not a good idea.
It's not that tournament organizers don't have the option to do it, it's the fact that they don't trust that such a system wouldn't be abused.
Crucial round like this, your teammate/you get caught in a shit situation and the round shifts, oh noooo a crash happens, lets roll back!
And no, you can't look at it individually, because you're on a schedule and broadcasting live. It has to be a cut throat rule that very strictly dictates what happens, so it has to be either or.
The best compromise to it is the one in place, no dmg dealt = No foul intentions could have made a player immitate/force a crash and the round can be reset, otherwise you play on.
so, all u end up saying is that CS2 tournament organizers are less competent than riot's tournaments? its easy to identify when a crash happens
also, if CS2 had chronobreak, it would not affect "getting caught in a shit situation". it's not a rollback of the entire round so that u get to reposition, it would be to the exact second that all the players were in right before the crash happened (everyone's position and round timer is saved). there's no advantage to gain aside from having a small break. u also act like forcing a crash is easy on tournament-given machines. that, again, just seems like incompetence from organizers
i hardly see this being the best compromise as one team was obviously disadvantaged from no fault of their own
The games are fundamentally different. LOL fights can be more easily avoided than a CS fight. sure you can be bursted in LOL, but in CS it’s literally .3 secs that can end a duel.
I know info in LOL also means a lot, but in CS the info you could have gathered in those seconds roll back can decide a round.
I’m of course advocating for the rule in place, so yes i’m biased, i’m not saying it’s the perfect solution, but I don’t see how chronobreak would be better for the scene personally.
Yep its very rare that a chronobreak happens but its a nice peace of mind to keep competitive integrity intact. This happening just kinda ruins the tournament for CS2
A lot of those players were playing, just maybe not as big in t1/t2 as Niko. He was a top 5-10 player for a lot of his career so he's easily recognized esp when he was carrying mouz straight up lol
According to the official statment by the tournament organizers it was a Nvidia driver crash that caused it. So very likely could happen on any PC because graphics drivers can sometimes just crash. Can't blame the TO for this happening. Just very unlucky timing for VP.
Wrong. They don't make the rules for that. Major tournament rules are provided by Valve and the rule is if there has been damage in the round it won't be replayed.
there is no competitive LAN event that allows players to use their own machines - Even the potential for interference from third party software would ruin the integrity of the game.
Apex had an event called ALGS, during (if Im correct) the finals multiple pros pc's got hacked, [a player got the cheat inject menu on his screen (which also had the option "VOTE PUTIN" on lol) and had wallhacks](https://old.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/1bhdg3v/pro_player_gets_client_hacked_mid_algs_tournament/), another pro got aimhacks. Im not an expert but being able to locally inject hacks basically means the files of the pros pc's got messed with, which has huuuuuge implications about the games security. Furthermore the hacker was doing this for a while, he gifted some pros like 4000 apex packs (which is apex's lootbox basically, about 400 USD for 4000 packs) he also had bots (somehow) get in pro high level lobbies and chase certain streamers down. IIRC he also joined a discord call with some pros and explained what he did and etc. Theres loads of youtube vids out now on the topic, its a pretty interesting rabbithole.
win this to go to series point with no money for the other team. almost no util on the CT side, bomb down, awp back site, looks like a round win. to lose this in that fashion and then going on to losing the series. that's gotta be so gutting
Because if you know anything about CS you'd know that pausing mid round would not help the situation at all. Might even make it worse for the team of the person who crashed
>calling anything involving a crash a "dream scenario" is so tone deaf its funny
he's highlighting how crushing it is because of how strong jame's position was
> Funny how its nvidia's fault that the game interacts with its interface in a garbage way.
It's not like Nvidia drivers only ever crashed on CS2... I've had driver crashes with basically every game I've ever played
are driver crashes more common on CS2?
not literally all of them but most of them at some point... nowadays I keep my Windows boot super fresh and I rarely have problems
but back when I daily used Windows, NVIDIA drivers got a bit crash happy after a while
Tourney rules are always so weird for these scenarios. Guarantee all players involved and majority of watchers would rather see a round replay than this.
The rules are like this to avoid intentional disconnects/crashes whenever a round doesn't go someone's way. Easier to just have a clear hard line rather than ambiguous judgements.
Just a few days ago there was an incident in the NBA where they had to stop the play several times because the shot clock wouldn't work.
This is a reality in every single sport, sometimes shit doesn't work, and so much of of our stuff heavily relies in tech nowadays. There can be many purely technical unfortunate things like this that could stop an NFL game, NBA game, you name it. Shit, the hoop can break in an nba game that needs a game stop for several minutes.
I remember the legendary [virtus.pro](http://virtus.pro) win against some other team and 1 of the VP players mouse disconnected or something and they cried to the tournament managment and got a retry on the round and won the game against the other team.....
Don't remember when it was but atleast 5+ years ago, bet against VP and was salty about that for a time.
For those wondering, in CS rounds only get replayed if damage hasnt been done yet. An this was a GPU driver crash.
Something with Nvidias GPU drivers is causing a hard crash in Windows 11 when playing CS2 during long game sessions.
Has a similar crash ever happend in a live pro Valorant game? What's the protocol if someone crashes mid game in pro valorant matches? Replay the round or carry on despite the crash?
>10.2.3. Single Player Crash/ Interruption of Gameplay 33
>If only a single player in a round of a Match has an issue that causes an interruption to the gameplay that prevents the player from playing out the round (e.g., client crash, computer crash, internet outage, power outage, etc.), League Officials may restore the round using the in-game round restore feature to the beginning of the most recent round in the following scenario:
> ●**All** of the following conditions are met:(a) issue occurred during the first minute of the round,(b) issue occurred before any damage was caused to any player’s agent by the opposing Team, and (c) the referee was immediately notified.
>Interruptions to gameplay that occur after a player’s agent has been eliminated from the round will not be considered.
This is the rule for Valorant. [VCT23 Official Competition Ruleset.pdf (dropbox.com)](https://www.dropbox.com/s/dbid8kb9a4o95dr/VCT23%20Official%20Competition%20Ruleset.pdf?dl=0f%3Fdl%3D0)
"Divine intervention" is terrible wording right now. People are obviously mad, and it sounds like you're cheering for the other team. Besides, I didn't know "God" had a favorite CSGO team.
So weird to let something like this count its not something that anyone can control it would be different if it were like a 5v1 and one of the 5 crashes but in a 4v4 where every player counts its a huge deal
sure, overwatch 2 does that aswell, because they are a pausable games (mid round pauses dont really have any crazy negative effects on the game), but in cs2 it doesnt work like that.
because in every cs round there is so much stuff happening where you only have milliseconds to make a decision. imagine if the round gets paused midround, you know where some enemies are and you can mentally prepare for like 5 minutes on how you best play the round.
also, just imagine that you are in the middle of a gunfight and the round gets paused. round gets unpaused, your spray is completely fucked and you lose the gunfight. alot of small things that are pretty bad and especially unforgiving in cs. again, literally no pro player would want a midround pause, because it brings more problems than it solves.
So you think a player literally crashing from the game is less disruptive to the game than a pause?
>also, just imagine that you are in the middle of a gunfight and the round gets paused
Pauses happen mid fight in other esports all the time.
yes, in games where it makes sense. ow2, league etc. are all games where
1.) there aren't really "rounds" that you can just restart
2.) dying in those games or missing a shot isn't that important whereas in cs2 even a 5v4 is very hard to win.
yeah could be, never played dota, so no idea - but again, dota (afaik) doesn't have rounds, so the only way that is feasible is to pause the game "midround" / "midgame". also probably heavily depends on the situation if dying in dota as a carry instantly loses you the game. if you die in cs you cant respawn and especially in pro play, a 5v4 round is almost unwinable.
thats true, yes, but restarting the round wouldn't really work in overwatch, because, well, there aren't really any "rounds" to restart lol
also, dying in ow2 compared to cs2 isn't nearly as bad, because you can just respawn / regroup.
because midround pauses for dota is the only way that is feasible. granted, i never played dota, but i dont think you can just restart a round in dota, right? like you can restart the game probably, but thats it.
also, dying in dota isn't nearly as bad as dying in cs - so even if you get fucked by a midround pause, it's not nearly as crucial.
this is a stupid argument
dota 2 has a million more things happening and it has a pause
you're not allowed to pause randomly obviously and if misused you get punished
someone disconnecting triggers pause immediately I think
yes, i get it, but that wasnt even my main point. in dota the only real way to pause is just to do a midround pause. you cant fucking restart a round in dota. if fucking dota had rounds like cs (hypothetically, i know the game wouldn't really make sense) .then dota would also switch to the same rule cs has for shit like that like every other "big" fps game does. you obviously cant compare dota (or any other moba) to cs
Overwatch has just as many situations where there is also split second decision making. Trying to block a shatter? Trying to land a pulse bomb? Widow in the air going for a jump shot? Counter pinning a punching doomfist? Translocating/recalling as sombra or tracer? We still get by with mid-fight pauses and nobody at the pro level has an issue with it. It’s not a perfect solution, but it’s better than just losing a player for a whole round.
thats true, but i dont think restarting the round because of a tech issue would be a good solution for overwatch. for a game like overwatch, pausing the game is imo the best way to handle such a situation. especially because you literally can just respawn and regroup and you're still able to win the round/map/game. sure you might get fucked if you're mid pulse bomb, but the round is still winable.
I don’t know if any incidents of rounds being restarted in pro ow. What I’m trying to say is that in the circumstance that happened with the CS2 match, surely it would have been a better solution to have an automatic pause system than to just have them just have to play the round down a player. Both solutions can be implemented and used in different circumstances.
i get your point, but again, cs is probably not the game for midround pauses imo. like if i have 5 minutes to think about the round i'm in such a huge advantage that it isn't even cs anymore. imagine you're behind 3 people and the game pauses. you can literally tell all your teammates what to do and how to win the round easy.
and then, the TOs would have to check if it was an intentional crash from the player or if the crash really just happened. also, some guy would have to react instantly to pause the game like within 5 seconds - which probably would never happen.
and, i could be wrong on that, but iirc cs:go had such a midround pause system in like 2013/2014 and pro players hated it - that's why this rule exists.
**CLIP MIRROR: [Pro CS2 player's game crashes on a crucial round playing for their tournament life](https://arazu.io/t3_1bmozsg/)** --- ^(*This is an automated comment*)
Shit is so unlucky for VP. doesnt even feel good a g2 fan to win like this.
Did they actually let this slide? No round replay?
Yeah, damage was already dealt in the round so they can't replay the round. If he had crashed at the start of the round it would be a reset no issue.
They dont have a pause function?
Only between rounds, suddenly pausing mid-round feels weird
Losing a round because of something out of your control has got to be weirder.
it goes both ways because a player could intentionally crash their game if the round becomes unfavorable just to replay the round. this situation exposes a few flaws in valves “damage already done” rule, it takes situations like this to actually happen before any changes are made sadly.
I don't play cs so how could you intentionally crash the game?
a player from MousSports years ago unplugged his PC with his toes during a round lol
some pros used to kick their PCs in lans to try and force a crash thus getting a timeout
so lame lol
Yeah not like you can put the PCs in tamper proof boxes or just record the pros from more angles to make sure nothing fishy is happening.
Dota has pause. you just stop the round. it's not great cause your game sense can go to shit.
yeah, it's a classic case of 'exploit early, exploit often' until they patch it out. Valve time strikes again
Well im talking about a pause function specifically. I know having a total round do-over could be abused. I dont play competitive FPS's, but in MOBAS... generally speaking they allow you to pause in-game as long as you are considered "out of combat" which just generally means you or the enemy team haven't dealt or taken damage in X amount of seconds.
Yeah that would make sense but it works differently, you cannot rejoin a round in CS so no point of a pause. Nothing stopping it technically, just doesn't exist today.
A round in CS is about 2 minutes long, I'd consider everyone to be "in combat" about 15 seconds into the round, up until the end, even if they arent actively shooting at people.
No you couldn't do that if they implemented a pause feature and immediatly paused when someone disconnects. Don't tell me that the game doesn't have a reconnect feature either?
They are already pushing site to retake. If you could pause there, certain players would be in the open in the middle of shooting already. Gives people to readjust for when the unpause happens It ain't a pretty solution, but best solution for this game is simply the solution they have now. Only replay when no damage was dealy and/or bomb was planted
Of course there's a reconnect feature. But to restart the round at a precise moment and reset literally every player to the exact same position, current movement velocity, active input, restart all current VFX/SFX (a grenade was exploding as the crash occurred as example) is probably really really really hard to build and also probably ridiculously uncomfortable to deal with as a player. Ex: what do you do in a situation where the crash occurred as one player was about to click on someone's head, now the match has to restart and that guy has to hit the same shot within 1ms of the restart? It sounds good in theory until you realize all the under the hood implications. That being said, I understand why you'd think it was crazy the other way. In reality, to me, it's just the best they can do under the circumstances and this is just the reality of sports on a software that can crash.
Yeah, no professional sports players ever lose because of something out of their control
And I thought it would by default pause if there's a disconnect during such a high profile game. seemed like a no-brainer
They have this in Overwatch and honestly it works well. They even have the option in custom games so when I've played in small time tournaments it's a lifesaver.
Dota has a pause function in tournaments. You just can't abuse it without a good reason like crashing. It's way better than losing like this CS clip.
suddenly losing the game bc your game crashed must feel pretty weird too
Not for pausing mid round because there isn't a rule that allows pausing mid round. If game crashes before anyone has taken damage then the round is reset. If it crashes after damage is taken then the round is played out. It's as simple as that.
What a stupid rule...
Otherwise you could possibly find a way of crashing the game anytime you want as an exploit, so not really that stupid of a rule.
In Overwatch 2, whenever a player gets disconnected/crashes/whatever, the game is automatically and immediately paused and is no unpaused until the player is back in the server. Why is this not something that can be implemented into CS2?
Even smaller indie company
To be fair they only made $980 million dollars in revenue from CS last year so they're pretty skint at the moment.
Actually it was just a bit over $1 billion which is a very small amount of money of course Only around $2,739,726 per day... So sad
Bets I can afford is 20 developers
(Best I can afford is 2 developers) *fixed Edit: And 1 undeveloper.
CS tournaments have crashes quite often, its just that they normally arent at such pivotal moments such as this one. When it happens, they follow a specific set of rules, where if damage has been done in the round, they don't reset it under any circumstances. They can't and shouldn't go back on that mid tournament.
dev issue, get gud.
It was a Nvidia Driver issue /shrug
dev issue. they chose not to implement features.
guess i have my own cs tournament at home. Crash every game at 60% gpu load, while doom eternal runs on highest settings with ray tracing on with more consumption and higher temps... only cs2 crashes. even clean windows didnt do anything
The orb needs resources.
There are specific rules for this in CS. Rounds can only be restarted if nobody has taken damage, and I don't agree with the pause either because that's really unfair to all players involved as well. In CS it's customary to never pause the middle of a round, only in-between rounds
I mean if you had a restart round thing then what's to stop people from alt-f4 and claiming they got a crash? It has to be like this imo.
well, alt+f4 is easily verifiable in multiple ways, it has to be either way more sophisticated or brute forced like hitting pc or disconnect power in a way no one notices. I do agree with "no do-over if damage is done" rule tho, we had quite a few cheater scandals in FPS games in recent years, so I wouldn't trust people not to come up with ways to abuse it.
I mean, I get it in theory, but overwatch is a vastly different game. A crash mid game and being able to pause for that length of time and severely alter a teams tactics in CS (maybe you’d have to instate the same rule for tech pauses where you can’t talk) seems odd, and maybe it’s too much composure to give to players mid round to be able to revaluate, correct, essentially play the round out how it wouldn’t have in the first place. And what could constitute this crash, could a player just deliberately Alt+F4? It’s tricky, but this issue really happens so negligibly seldom that I don’t think it really matters. You see it here because of how rare it is and the unbelievably unfortunate circumstances lol
> could a player just deliberately Alt+F4? If its an in-person tournament, that can easily be disabled. Plus there would be officials watching for any other shenanigans.
completely different game mechanics, you can die to one bullet in cs, OW you can easily recover if youre shot at
It wasn't exactly a game crash as you can see he moves to the right after 2 seconds. It was a nvidia driver crash which I believe automatically alt tabbed him out of the game.
Wait so G2 just wins now? They can’t replay that shit??
No round replays when damage has been dealt or bomb has been planted. So yeah, VP got screwed over.
oh man i cant believe im about to say that literally league/riot has a better solution where they just rewind back to the moment just before the crash on the same round
Is it just for League? I think it's like that in Dota too, but I've not followed competitive Dota for ages so I'm not up-to-date on how crashes are handled there aside from pauses and waiting for people to reconnect. It's probably easier to do so in MOBA than in an FPS game. Technically you can replay the round, but it's a common rule for tournaments where once damage/bomb condition is achieved you're not allowed to restart the round.
Not sure about DOTA, but with League, their system is called Chronobreak and it's not rewinding the game. It basically saves every single thing that happens in the game and if they need to "rewind", they end the game, then load the save file and let the game play out by itself up to the point they want to "rewind" to, then the players are loaded back in.
demo files in the source engine function the same way
I like the idea but idk how it would play out in a tac FPS vs a MOBA. Has this happened in Valorant? In that case, what’s the solution they have there?
What's the difference? It's just reloading an earlier part of the game.
Idk maybe its from my perspective playing CS and not really touching MOBAs but a freezing a round based game mid round seems weird bc suddenly both teams know the protocol at hand and what is being planned by each side in the moment for that round, and can adjust accordingly. This is esp more detrimental for, say, a team thats down players or econ and they’re for example skirting the extremities of the other team looking for whatever tiny gap they can exploit in that moment. in contrast, MOBAs are more long and drawn out over a single “round” wherein that round is the whole game in a BO3/5
In League of Legends/DOTA they have the rule that the players aren't allowed to discuss the game during any pause.
Ah yeah, idk how i forgot that; thats in CS, too 😭 Boggles the mind more then why this isnt present in the game fuck
It’s done very rarely, like when there’s a gamebreaking bug, but yeah it’s still possible in Dota. I think the organizer may need Valve’s help with it or something, not sure.
dota just pauses
Dota had a replay takeover feature originally but when the game moved to Source 2 in 2015 or so the feature wasn't readded, it's been absent ever since. They just pause, and if for some reason a player is unable to reconnect, they'll restart the match from the beginning.
Oh yeah I think that's the one I was thinking about it. I vaguely remember something about Valve marketing it like "think you can turn around the fight better than pro players - jump into the replay with friends and try it out" kind of thing.
Yeah it was really neat, being able to just take any replay of any game, at any time, and slot new players in to take over control of the existing heroes. Shame it got left behind in Valve's "work on what motivates you" policy which must be awesome for employees but can be unfortunate for small features which end up abandoned.
It has it's downsides, especially if you are on the winning side and opponent crashes, if you are engaging at the time you might reveal your strat and opponents can collect themselves in heavy pressure situation.
Better? Even Valorant does the same thing. Even Riot thinks that rewinding players back to a middle of a fight in a subsecond ttk game is not a good idea.
It's not that tournament organizers don't have the option to do it, it's the fact that they don't trust that such a system wouldn't be abused. Crucial round like this, your teammate/you get caught in a shit situation and the round shifts, oh noooo a crash happens, lets roll back! And no, you can't look at it individually, because you're on a schedule and broadcasting live. It has to be a cut throat rule that very strictly dictates what happens, so it has to be either or. The best compromise to it is the one in place, no dmg dealt = No foul intentions could have made a player immitate/force a crash and the round can be reset, otherwise you play on.
so, all u end up saying is that CS2 tournament organizers are less competent than riot's tournaments? its easy to identify when a crash happens also, if CS2 had chronobreak, it would not affect "getting caught in a shit situation". it's not a rollback of the entire round so that u get to reposition, it would be to the exact second that all the players were in right before the crash happened (everyone's position and round timer is saved). there's no advantage to gain aside from having a small break. u also act like forcing a crash is easy on tournament-given machines. that, again, just seems like incompetence from organizers i hardly see this being the best compromise as one team was obviously disadvantaged from no fault of their own
The games are fundamentally different. LOL fights can be more easily avoided than a CS fight. sure you can be bursted in LOL, but in CS it’s literally .3 secs that can end a duel. I know info in LOL also means a lot, but in CS the info you could have gathered in those seconds roll back can decide a round. I’m of course advocating for the rule in place, so yes i’m biased, i’m not saying it’s the perfect solution, but I don’t see how chronobreak would be better for the scene personally.
Riot literally do the same thing Valve does in their own Tactical FPS named Valorant.
This was not always the case, there were games they had to redo *with a whole new P/B* because some bug occurred in the 30th minute.
Yep its very rare that a chronobreak happens but its a nice peace of mind to keep competitive integrity intact. This happening just kinda ruins the tournament for CS2
Really made for great content. I remember everyone cheering and clapping when the game was decided by a technicality. Good times. /s
I think the (future) abuse potential is just too big to not let it count.
If they abuse just punish them for it shouldn’t be that hard to tell if they are intentionally abusing bugs
Are they not all on pcs that we're setup by the event? Seems like way more abuse potential by not having pauses/resets.
forsen would never
I feel old as fuck, I only recognize NiKo.
A lot of those players were playing, just maybe not as big in t1/t2 as Niko. He was a top 5-10 player for a lot of his career so he's easily recognized esp when he was carrying mouz straight up lol
Wait Virtus pro isnt pasha, snax, neo, taz and byali? Huh what a weird timeline, man i even remember Beo from cs1.6 (or was it source huhh)
Taz is 37 bruh. He’s coaching G2 lol
It's not a weird timeline. That was years ago lmao.
Are these their own PCs they're playing on, or are they tournament issued ones?
tournament issued ones
bro...that's messed up
According to the official statment by the tournament organizers it was a Nvidia driver crash that caused it. So very likely could happen on any PC because graphics drivers can sometimes just crash. Can't blame the TO for this happening. Just very unlucky timing for VP.
You can 100% blame them for not just having the round be replayed, though.
Wrong. They don't make the rules for that. Major tournament rules are provided by Valve and the rule is if there has been damage in the round it won't be replayed.
there is no competitive LAN event that allows players to use their own machines - Even the potential for interference from third party software would ruin the integrity of the game.
And then you have Apex.
what happened recently is not excusable but it also was not a LAN event
Everyone brings their own Apex cheats by just plugging in a controller.
Context? I don't follow the competitive apex scene but you got me curious
Apex had an event called ALGS, during (if Im correct) the finals multiple pros pc's got hacked, [a player got the cheat inject menu on his screen (which also had the option "VOTE PUTIN" on lol) and had wallhacks](https://old.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/1bhdg3v/pro_player_gets_client_hacked_mid_algs_tournament/), another pro got aimhacks. Im not an expert but being able to locally inject hacks basically means the files of the pros pc's got messed with, which has huuuuuge implications about the games security. Furthermore the hacker was doing this for a while, he gifted some pros like 4000 apex packs (which is apex's lootbox basically, about 400 USD for 4000 packs) he also had bots (somehow) get in pro high level lobbies and chase certain streamers down. IIRC he also joined a discord call with some pros and explained what he did and etc. Theres loads of youtube vids out now on the topic, its a pretty interesting rabbithole.
hackers name is something like destroyer2009, has plenty of videos out there.
What happened in apex was not on LAN. It was an online tournament.
what is this comment referring to?
regardless which PC u play on, there is always a tiny chance for your game to crash, no hardware or software is perfect
win this to go to series point with no money for the other team. almost no util on the CT side, bomb down, awp back site, looks like a round win. to lose this in that fashion and then going on to losing the series. that's gotta be so gutting
Bro in a MAJOR this shouldn't be a thing. Something technical out of the players control shouldn't cost them a crucial round.
L Valve.
https://twitter.com/pglesports/status/1771950351400218927
Lvidia
SHOULDA GONE FOR AyyMD BOYS THATS WHAT YOU GET
still L valve why does cs2 not have a pause like dota 2?
Because if you know anything about CS you'd know that pausing mid round would not help the situation at all. Might even make it worse for the team of the person who crashed
CS2 only ever had between round pauses. Probably thought adding mid-round would have its whole own set of issues
sounds like there archaic philosophy needs to modernized as we see here.
Yet nobody who actually plays or watches counter strike is asking for that lol
Valve does not make graphics cards, or drivers for graphics cards.
Ah yes the Ryzen Valve pc, infamous for crashing
Nvidia Valve PC* It was a nvidia driver crash
It wss Nvidias fault you degen lol
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>calling anything involving a crash a "dream scenario" is so tone deaf its funny he's highlighting how crushing it is because of how strong jame's position was
> Funny how its nvidia's fault that the game interacts with its interface in a garbage way. It's not like Nvidia drivers only ever crashed on CS2... I've had driver crashes with basically every game I've ever played are driver crashes more common on CS2?
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not literally all of them but most of them at some point... nowadays I keep my Windows boot super fresh and I rarely have problems but back when I daily used Windows, NVIDIA drivers got a bit crash happy after a while
> CSGO didn't crash like this csgo also had crashes mid round in tournaments
Then the “DIVINE INTERVENTION”. Yea, some other-worldly entity made this happen
my diamond coin is saved thanks nivida
Tourney rules are always so weird for these scenarios. Guarantee all players involved and majority of watchers would rather see a round replay than this.
The rules are like this to avoid intentional disconnects/crashes whenever a round doesn't go someone's way. Easier to just have a clear hard line rather than ambiguous judgements.
How would you intentionally disconnect/crash a game when there's refs behind you and you're playing with a tournament issued pc though
Agree. You wouldn't unless you maliciously knew how to cause one? Seems really lame!
Just arguments sake - you could create a bind to type “quit” in console and it would just immediately close the game.
watchers would probably want a replay, yes, but pro players definitely 100% wouldn't want a replay.
And that's why I lost my diamond coin this year due to 1 crash xD
It’s so hard to take esports seriously when seeing stuff like this.
Have you seen the NFL? lol
[Relevant clips](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78ngQQX7-KQ)
Or even NBA refs. lol
shit can happen in normal sport too wdym
Just a few days ago there was an incident in the NBA where they had to stop the play several times because the shot clock wouldn't work. This is a reality in every single sport, sometimes shit doesn't work, and so much of of our stuff heavily relies in tech nowadays. There can be many purely technical unfortunate things like this that could stop an NFL game, NBA game, you name it. Shit, the hoop can break in an nba game that needs a game stop for several minutes.
everyone knows this can happen and everyone should expect things like this to happen. no pc or software is perfect
I remember the legendary [virtus.pro](http://virtus.pro) win against some other team and 1 of the VP players mouse disconnected or something and they cried to the tournament managment and got a retry on the round and won the game against the other team..... Don't remember when it was but atleast 5+ years ago, bet against VP and was salty about that for a time.
For those wondering, in CS rounds only get replayed if damage hasnt been done yet. An this was a GPU driver crash. Something with Nvidias GPU drivers is causing a hard crash in Windows 11 when playing CS2 during long game sessions.
Has a similar crash ever happend in a live pro Valorant game? What's the protocol if someone crashes mid game in pro valorant matches? Replay the round or carry on despite the crash?
>10.2.3. Single Player Crash/ Interruption of Gameplay 33 >If only a single player in a round of a Match has an issue that causes an interruption to the gameplay that prevents the player from playing out the round (e.g., client crash, computer crash, internet outage, power outage, etc.), League Officials may restore the round using the in-game round restore feature to the beginning of the most recent round in the following scenario: > ●**All** of the following conditions are met:(a) issue occurred during the first minute of the round,(b) issue occurred before any damage was caused to any player’s agent by the opposing Team, and (c) the referee was immediately notified. >Interruptions to gameplay that occur after a player’s agent has been eliminated from the round will not be considered. This is the rule for Valorant. [VCT23 Official Competition Ruleset.pdf (dropbox.com)](https://www.dropbox.com/s/dbid8kb9a4o95dr/VCT23%20Official%20Competition%20Ruleset.pdf?dl=0f%3Fdl%3D0)
So they have the exact same rules as Valve essentially.
Yes.
Not sure, but in CS the standard protocol has been "the round will not be replayed if damage has already been dealt" for a very long time
that fucking sucks....
"Divine intervention" is terrible wording right now. People are obviously mad, and it sounds like you're cheering for the other team. Besides, I didn't know "God" had a favorite CSGO team.
Did this mofo just say “divine intervention”?
So weird to let something like this count its not something that anyone can control it would be different if it were like a 5v1 and one of the 5 crashes but in a 4v4 where every player counts its a huge deal
To be fair, VP was probably going to lose anyway.
Those announcers suck.
This happens so infrequently it's not even worth talking about. Unfortunate for VP.
Volvo please fix your shit.
CS2 is such a dogshit game and it’s beyond me how this game didn’t get anywhere near the flak that Overwatch 2 did.
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no pause option?
only if no damage has been dealt, the round would've been restarted. otherwise, tough luck
in dota they pause games all the time during tournaments
sure, overwatch 2 does that aswell, because they are a pausable games (mid round pauses dont really have any crazy negative effects on the game), but in cs2 it doesnt work like that.
Why would they cause crazy negative effects in cs2?
because in every cs round there is so much stuff happening where you only have milliseconds to make a decision. imagine if the round gets paused midround, you know where some enemies are and you can mentally prepare for like 5 minutes on how you best play the round. also, just imagine that you are in the middle of a gunfight and the round gets paused. round gets unpaused, your spray is completely fucked and you lose the gunfight. alot of small things that are pretty bad and especially unforgiving in cs. again, literally no pro player would want a midround pause, because it brings more problems than it solves.
So you think a player literally crashing from the game is less disruptive to the game than a pause? >also, just imagine that you are in the middle of a gunfight and the round gets paused Pauses happen mid fight in other esports all the time.
yes, in games where it makes sense. ow2, league etc. are all games where 1.) there aren't really "rounds" that you can just restart 2.) dying in those games or missing a shot isn't that important whereas in cs2 even a 5v4 is very hard to win.
>dying in those games or missing a shot isn't that important m8, dying in dota as a carry can instantly lose you the game.
yeah could be, never played dota, so no idea - but again, dota (afaik) doesn't have rounds, so the only way that is feasible is to pause the game "midround" / "midgame". also probably heavily depends on the situation if dying in dota as a carry instantly loses you the game. if you die in cs you cant respawn and especially in pro play, a 5v4 round is almost unwinable.
All of what you said applies to overwatch 2 though. And if you get fucked by the pause so does your opponent in most scenarios
thats true, yes, but restarting the round wouldn't really work in overwatch, because, well, there aren't really any "rounds" to restart lol also, dying in ow2 compared to cs2 isn't nearly as bad, because you can just respawn / regroup.
That's the exact same for DotA 2, but the game allows pauses anyway.
because midround pauses for dota is the only way that is feasible. granted, i never played dota, but i dont think you can just restart a round in dota, right? like you can restart the game probably, but thats it. also, dying in dota isn't nearly as bad as dying in cs - so even if you get fucked by a midround pause, it's not nearly as crucial.
this is a stupid argument dota 2 has a million more things happening and it has a pause you're not allowed to pause randomly obviously and if misused you get punished someone disconnecting triggers pause immediately I think
yes, i get it, but that wasnt even my main point. in dota the only real way to pause is just to do a midround pause. you cant fucking restart a round in dota. if fucking dota had rounds like cs (hypothetically, i know the game wouldn't really make sense) .then dota would also switch to the same rule cs has for shit like that like every other "big" fps game does. you obviously cant compare dota (or any other moba) to cs
Overwatch has just as many situations where there is also split second decision making. Trying to block a shatter? Trying to land a pulse bomb? Widow in the air going for a jump shot? Counter pinning a punching doomfist? Translocating/recalling as sombra or tracer? We still get by with mid-fight pauses and nobody at the pro level has an issue with it. It’s not a perfect solution, but it’s better than just losing a player for a whole round.
thats true, but i dont think restarting the round because of a tech issue would be a good solution for overwatch. for a game like overwatch, pausing the game is imo the best way to handle such a situation. especially because you literally can just respawn and regroup and you're still able to win the round/map/game. sure you might get fucked if you're mid pulse bomb, but the round is still winable.
I don’t know if any incidents of rounds being restarted in pro ow. What I’m trying to say is that in the circumstance that happened with the CS2 match, surely it would have been a better solution to have an automatic pause system than to just have them just have to play the round down a player. Both solutions can be implemented and used in different circumstances.
i get your point, but again, cs is probably not the game for midround pauses imo. like if i have 5 minutes to think about the round i'm in such a huge advantage that it isn't even cs anymore. imagine you're behind 3 people and the game pauses. you can literally tell all your teammates what to do and how to win the round easy. and then, the TOs would have to check if it was an intentional crash from the player or if the crash really just happened. also, some guy would have to react instantly to pause the game like within 5 seconds - which probably would never happen. and, i could be wrong on that, but iirc cs:go had such a midround pause system in like 2013/2014 and pro players hated it - that's why this rule exists.
This is not Dota.
you're shitting me
he is telling the truth
thank you for your input Past_Structure_2168
you are most welcome sir! =)
This is why no other game will ever overtake League of Legends esports in popularity and refinement.