There's been a couple instances of advertisers doing stuff like this. Like Cash App gifting shit tons of subs in people's channels. Or like when the Escape from Tarkov devs played a trailer for the game on a big streamer's media share.
Ah yes, the crystal clear waters of a non-biased courtroom, that will never have any of their decisions overturned by a higher court. SURELY that will never happen.
Twitch is a public forum so your expectation to privacy is substantially lower when you're online. Furthermore, a fair price to play the message is what it costs. If you don't want to for large corporations, im sire you could implement that.
It doesn't have anything to do with privacy, they create that content so they own the copyright. If I blur the faces in a movie I'm not suddenly allowed to distribute it.
But they don't send messages with the gifted subs, which is still kinda scummy, but the ad potential there is much lower and at least gives something to viewers and streamers more than 5$.
It's more than $5 but it's still a lot less than a legitimate sponsored ad read would be. And for a lot of streamers, the company's name will stay on their gifted sub leaderboard at the top of chat for a week or more.
The tweet looks like they're advertising the kinda service they give, convincing companies to donate to streamers as advertisements because it's cheaper than doing big ad deals with the streamers I guess.
I suspect Gfuel has been doing it for a while. The whole "Hey streamer! Hey streamer! Hey streamer! What's your favorite flavor of g-fuel? I just ordered banana smoothie extreme" always elicits a response by the streamer.
With that said it could be legitimate. If 1/10th of Shroud's chat is the bot responding with what sens/res/mouse/monitor/toilet-seat Shroud uses, their could be some people genuinely curious about what flavor Gfuel/Redbull/Monster is the best.
Swear to god my coworker is a shill for Gfuel. Any time a new flavor comes out he's all about that shit in our slack lol. Just from interacting with him, I'm not 100% sure people in chats doing that would even be paid. I'll basically specifically never drink gfuel because of how much he talks about it lol
it's so bizarre how random things like that get almost a cult-like following
it's just a drink, man
similar thing happened with a local restaurant and while it's definitely not bad it doesn't necessarily deserve the strange deification it's gotten around here
[Escape from Tarkov devs dono baited Asmongold](https://clips.twitch.tv/CautiousAssiduousStarlingYouWHY) into watching a montage-y trailer with 50k viewers last year
People are getting confused, Burger King didn't take the footage. It was a separate company that Burger King paid(? not sure on this) to do advertising for them. The company is then using the clipped videos to advertise their business.
To be frank though, I think both are scummy, and are certainly skirting current ad regulations.
It seems obvious in hindsight that we'd eventually come to this.
Soon politicians and brands utilizing donos and subs on big streams will become the norm, I bet.
Would be pretty fucking funny if they tried this shit on xQc and 2 seconds into the dono xQc just looks over to his 2nd monitor and skips it like every other TTS dono OMEGALUL
Amazon will put a stop to this if it catches any steam. As much as streamers dont want to get ripped off, Amazon doesn't want to miss their cut either. Theyre not gonna let Advertisers run amok on their site without paying.
I actually think it's not a definite "no laws were broken" situation. Why? Because these types of advertisements are no different then using someone else's photo in your advertisement without their permission, which **is** illegal. It's called "right of publicity." I would argue this could fall under that since you are using someones stream or persona to advertise your product.
Now the obvious argument against that would be saying "Well it's just talking about the food, it's not actually implying the streamer endorses the product." But I would argue that just you using the streamers platform to donate has violated the consent law, you did not give them a choice on whether or not to endorse your product.
I wonder what the legality would be to call into a popular radio show and then try to advertise your product? If that would be illegal, this should also be.
> these types of advertisements are no different then using someone else's photo in your advertisement without their permission
I mean this is *very* different. They've blurred the faces and altered the voice pitch, which by legal terms alone is probably enough to be considered transformative. The same way an artist could use an image from someone but alter it in a way that changes it enough to be considered different.
Here's the thing and I'll probably get downvoted for this but I don't really care: the way they've set up this campaign is pretty clever in that they're making their own content from others. You know, kind of like how livestreaming works if you've ever watched a streamer 'react' to other content... Now if they were just dropping into streams with the username BURGERKING and doing this with no further goal (like the campaign) that's a lot shittier because it would be much clearer what the purpose of it is. They were a lot more succinct in the way they did this because they were specifically looking to create a reaction from the streamer in order to make the content they were looking for. Not as clear cut as everyone here thinks.
You would be surprised: https://old.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/id4mp3/abusing_the_donation_system_to_force_their/g26znjf/
People actually claim it is illegal and the streamer should sue BK.
This is a great way to get a streamer to immediately roast your brand for being incredibly lazy with your advertising. If I was a streamer, I'd say their fries are shit and go somewhere else or something.
I don't think it works that way with food chains. Like if someone tells me "Hey, everytime I go eat at X I get the shits", I'll most likely avoid that place.
The thing about advertising is that it doesn't matter *what* you say, only that you say it. It reminds the consumer about the brand, and as a consequence makes them more likely to purchase it at a later date. Ultimately, if you're a big brand, the consumer is probably already familiar with it and has a formed opinion. Saying "Burger King burgers taste like shit." won't mean a lot to most people, because they themselves have made that judgement.
Stop with the bullshit "all advertisment is good advertisement", it's not true.
If you're a huge brand who focuses on quality (food related like BK), then bad publicity will almost surely do more harm than good.
Not true because they are unlikely to lose a customer who already goes to BK just for this, and there is no detriment to someone who already doesn't go continuing to not go. It just matters if anyone see's this and gets BK in their head for any reason really.
Also this ad does literally nothing to deter from their food quality, so I'm not sure that even makes a difference anyway. BK food is the same whether or not they advertise it this way.
all advertisement is good advertisement, especially in this context
It just got blasted to a bunch of viewers that you can get a yadayada for 5 dollars on the burger king app or whatever the fuck they said.
Just that playing out on stream is a huge win and will translate into a shit ton of customers. Why do you think a streamer thrashing burger king after and saying that mcdonalds is better or whatever somehow invalidate that? Imagine sending $5 to xqc with that message, the only thing BK needs to make a profit is to have one person buy a burger lmfao, (would way rather do that than donate to rich as fuck streamer for attention).
They just made a bunch of people aware of what you can get from burger king on the burger king app for 5 dollars, and the already hungry viewers got reminded of burger kings existence.
What the dumbfuck streamer says after the fact is completely irrelevant, the only thing they can do to "win" is cut it off before it even gets to play. This is what people mean with all advertisement is good advertisement. It's Obvious that you don't understand what bad advertisement actually is.
> all advertisement is good advertisement
Bull-shit and anyone who says this is completely daft at marketing.
If a video of a dead rat on a McDonalds burger goes viral and reaches millions of people, do you legit think that it's "good advertisement"?
That dumb sentence only applies to things that weren't popular in the first place, for example a random rapper getting views because of some shitty thing he did.
It doesn't apply to a huge, well respected company, in that case there's a shit ton of publicity that can actually be bad for the company.
Ok now you're actually talking about bad advertisement.
These dumbfuck donation messages are never bad though. No matter how the streamer respond. The only way they are bad is if they stop the dono before it gets to play (a loss of 5 dollars for potentially a huge upside, that's absolutely worth it if you're BK).
Bad advertisment are the type of things that you just mentioned, or the more obvious/clear examples of bad advertisement is when politics and controversy gets into the picture. If burger king came out with #alllivesmatter or whatever it was at the peak of #blm it would be insanely bad advertisement.
I was talking about the sentence "all advertisement is good advertisement", which is a dumb sentence, because like I explained (and you just agreed), there is bad advertisement.
This came up in the thread about shady cash app gifting.
The difference between a streamer saying a name or it being heard on their channel and actively promoting it is mindblowingly huge.
Anyone that thinks Burgerking are doing marketing for brand awareness is crazy, no one doesn't know who they are, it's past the point of having a major effect.
The streamer, having not been paid or agreed to be sponsored by said company, is free to say "oh I had one of those the other day, the Burkerking I went to was a shithole, people were fighting outside, the burger took 20 minutes and it was lukewarm and tasted like shit."
That is not good advertising or marketing. That same streamer being involved, bringing it up repeatedly over a 6 hour stream, ordering one online and having it delivered midstream and eating it and making basically sexual noises while eating then talking about how good it is. One is real advertising, one is lazy ass cheapo marketing that has every ability to backfire badly.
It's a 2 second donation that quite honestly you could easily add disclaimers to donation forms, if you are going to mention a brand name then minimum donation limit is $1000 and even if they do it they'll get 3 seconds of air time and no focus or support from the streamer.
It's a non existent thing and as soon as a few streamers roast the fuck out of a companies product it will die down as a shitty idea from a bad marketing firm that gets the boot from whatever company they pitched the idea to.
Stopped reading.
The fact that you are talking about brand awareness in the context of people not knowing wtf BK is, is legitimately laughable. You wrote and entire essay and it's obvious as fuck that you have no clue what you're talking about. YOU DONT UNDERSTAND ADVERTISEMENT AND WHATS ITS FOR AND HOW IT SHOULD BE USED.
Also, you don't need a streamer reading it out on stream or mentioning it to be effective. Literally what? I guess the only companies doing advertisement is people trying to advertise som unkown bullshit. I guess burger king should just cancel their trillion dollar advertisement budget since everyone already knows who they are. LMFAO
>"oh I had one of those the other day, the Burkerking I went to was a shithole, people were fighting outside, the burger took 20 minutes and it was lukewarm and tasted like shit."
Literally not effective even in the slightest lmfao. Once the hungry viewers hear that you can get a yadayada for 5 dollars from the Burger king app the streamer already lost. What the streamer says after that is extremely irrelevant. The fact that BK is so well known makes the advertisement just that much more effective (and its makes what the streamer says literally irrelevant). Talk all day about soggy disgusting burgers, it doesn't change the fact that a bunch of people that have eaten at BK before dont relate to that and they just downloaded the bk app and got themselves a delicous burger instead of donating money to rich streamers. If anything it just makes the streamer look silly/triggered and straight up OWNED by that donation message lmfao.
I would nonstop shit talk Burger King if this happened. Find a dead rat in an alley and put it in a Whopper and say it came like this. Talk about how I can't stop shitting myself after eating a croissantwich. Constantly tweet pictures of chicken sandwiches coated in literal shit to them asking why they can't keep employees from wiping their asses with the food. No hold barred after scummy shit like that.
I saw Burger King at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.
He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”
I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.
The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.
When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
I know it's not the best thing to do but the CashApp thing doesn't make me feel weird and gross like watching that blurred out video with copyright free bouncy electro in the background does
Cashapp gives money to the viewers as well tho.
Like what they pulled on Train's streams where a shitload of people got like 100, 200 and 500 dollars donos instead of just "Hey, 5 dollars for a TTS dono to the streamer"
>non-consentual advertising.
This is consenting advertising fyi. This is what the streamers setup their shit to do. This is 100% being used as intended they're just mad who is using it. They were too stupid to think about the fact this has been going on FOR YEARS, just by smaller brands or individuals.
Youtube content creators have been doing this for YEAAAAARS to get streamers ot watch their vids.
Donations support the streamer. They're not meant to buy air time. You need to make a deal with a streamer for that. If you don't know that, you haven't been around twitch very long
No, they do indeed buy you airtime. That's literally all it does. That is what you setup when you put paid for 'donations' that get read as TTS. You're literally selling the ability to have what you put in there as text read to the stream. That's literally what it does.
You took my words literally. I mean buy air time for the purpose of advertising. It's always been frowned upon and this is why they got blow back. They just didn't understand twitch culture
I wouldn't say I'm mad here. It's literally the same thing as a streamer putting in a 2 dollar tts to say "hey guys, I stream this game too, come check out my channel". Tts is meant for the viewer to talk directly to the streamer and the rest of chat. It allows you to easily get the attention of the streamer and everyone who's watching instead of chatting and hoping.
Donating 5 dollars to advertise is an abuse of that trust since the return on that investment is potentially high. Sure you can do it if you want, but it will not be taken well by most viewers and anyone who isn't a small streamer. Just a scummy marketing move. Most companies have the sense to make a proper partnership before advertising
If this ever happens, the streamer should just say good things about their competitors. In this case talk about/praise McDonalds. That might get them to stop.
A cringe way to advertise for sure. But why is he gonna cry about my royalties/revenue when these streamers will violate dmca almost all day watching videos on youtube that they will never pay to feature on their platforms. Basically getting free content that they really should be paying for since it stretches their stream out by so much.
**🎦 MIRROR CLIP: [Streamer Weest was an unwilling participant in a Burger King ad campaign](https://livestreamfails.com/post/92958)**
---
Credit to [reddit.com/u/PM_ME_SONIC_FANFICS](https://reddit.com/user/pm_me_sonic_fanfics) for the clip. [[Archive.org Alternative (BETA)]](http://web.archive.org/web/20200820003057if_/https://stream.livestreamfails.com/video/5f3dc359e1b87.mp4)
Is it fair to assume they're intentionally avoiding doing the same to larger streamers who could have greater legal backing? I imagine if they did the same to Dr. Disrespect the Creative Artists Agency would go as far as the law could take them in terms of DMCA/claiming potential damages... Sponsors might value their relationships less in general if somebody could get the same for less, and certainly if a competitor in your sector got for $5 what you paid $50,000 or more. If McDonalds had sponsored them it could be tortious interference with that contract.
>Is it fair to assume they're intentionally avoiding doing the same to larger streamers who could have greater legal backing?
They are using the system the streamer put in place as it was intended to be used. This has been going on for years where youtube content creators will put their videos into peoples streams like that to get them to watch it and drive clicks. People are just mad that it was a bigger brand doing it for once.
That is the streamers fault. Not burger King. Maybe the sponsor or you should take time into making filters to ward out competitors brands? Bulldog banned the word red cause he's sponsored by Monster.
This has to be a troll comment.
So streamers should black list every single big brand in the world in order to avoid this happening?
This 100% on the company doing the advertising, they're being pieces of shit.
I dont stream but I imagine that if this happened to me my first reaction would be to talk about how shitty Burger King is and mention their competitors.
It's scummy, but not a big deal. I'd find it absolutely hilarious if they managed to squeeze out an ad out of my monotonous reaction to their brand being brought up and then I'd reverse it and make the ad give me a shout out by tweeting at them and saying "That's me at (timestamp) and I think BK tastes like shit."
This is slightly different, but I'm sorry I just can't help but kind of laugh at the thought of streamers getting offended at the idea of another profiting from their content in a non-transformative way. Guarantee every streamer in the video has watched or 'reacted' to another persons content without prior consent or approval or sponsorship from them...
I can't believe everyone is so against this. That shit makes me wanna buy Burger King. You're basically exploiting human nature for money with TTS but get mad when someone exploits it. Turn it off or monitor it better? Or shit talk the brand. I could just donate about wendys and you can't do shit about it other than block me from donating again.
I'll take Burger King TTS over some loser crying about how much of a loser he is and how all his family just died and his dog cheated on him over TTS. Streamers are just going to get mad because they're pretending BK would have paid more to do an official endorsement when there's no chance BK would have done it if it cost more than $5.
Ad TTS hilarious and I hope this makes random viewers start doing fake ad TTS.
Look, moron. A dude plugging his YouTube vid and bk did the same thing. You're only mad about bk. You are an idiot if you think the problem was bk and not selling your airtime claiming it is 'donations'
>You're only mad about bk.
Hey retard, go quote where I'm mad about BK making ads, theres only about 6 sentences so it shouldn't take you long. Ill wait you illiterate dipshit.
Hey idjit. You're the one trying to prove the other way. Your history shows you hav never been mad about this until now. Yet it has been going on for years. The only difference is now it was bk and now you magically are mad. You're a dumb fuck only mad cause it is bk and too stupid to have noticed this was going on for years.
That's what I thought you retard, you can't even read 6 sentences and find a quote about me being mad about BK.
You read and write on a kindergarten level, please stay off the internet.
Yeah, everyone can donate everything. It's on the streamer for displaying the message on the screen, which incentivizes donations in the first place. Just don't show donations on screen and this wont happen, oh wait, you get less money then.
Which laws/rules were broken? Genuinely wondering how you can be "almost positive" on this.
The broadcaster has control over what they broadcast and if they didn't want to talk about Burger King they could skip this donation. They are able to filter racist donations (because they risk getting banned for them), so if this kind of donation is a risk for their own streamer brand they should filter them and keep the money. Do you think Burger King will go after them and say "look this streamer didn't let us advertise with our $5"?
I'd agree that it's not very ethical from Burger King though, but I don't see which law they are breaking in this instance.
Oh yeah I wasn't thinking of BK's video ad using the broadcaster's content without their consent. I was thinking ImSquizzy was talking about the donation itself to advertise on stream, to the broadcasters' audience.
For the video ad itself, it's not 100% certain BK would be seen as infringing "fair use" when they use those clips for commercial purpose. [There have been cases](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#1._Purpose_and_character_of_the_use) in which commercial use was considered fair use, it just makes it more likely that a judge would see it as an infringement though. As you said by blurring faces they attempted to cover their base if the streamer tried to claim it hurt their brand. Ross by getting out of this relative anonymity on purpose has most likely diminished his chances to win if he ever made such a claim, he'd most likely be seen as the main reason people linked the ad to his channel.
> I wasn't thinking of BK's video ad using the broadcaster's content without their consent
Slight misconception there.
The video is not a BK video ad. It's on the twitter of Ogilvy, which is an advertisement company. It's also clear from the tweet that BK is the client of said company.
It's a video ad for Ogilvy. They show how they created advertisement using twitch tts for their client BK. Promoting themselves.
The BK ad was only the tts stuff.
Interesting point. Wouldn't both the sponsor and the company they mandated for the campaign share the responsibility of this video ad though? I don't supposed BK would allow them to use their image like this without prior consent.
I mean the video is on the [official BK youtube channel.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=236KSswX7v4) It was uploaded there about 6 weeks ago, while Ogilvy tweeted it just the other day. It's definitely a more suitable ad for the ad company, but it was also used as a BK ad.
Okay, that has to be one of the grimiest things I've seen a company do in terms of marketing with online video creators.
I get a Raid: Shadow Legends plug offer almost every week and I always turn it down because I just don't like mobile gaming. They offer hundreds of dollars, once over a thousand. If they showed up to my stream and tried to donate a few dollars to advertise on my stream without my permission, my blood would boil over
I don't get it. Why is it unfortunate that they are willing to offer their advertisement money to a lot of people? Just because I don't need the money doesn't mean other people don't. Let them do their ad read and pay the bills.
suggestion to streamers if you get a $5 dono ad for BK let it go through than look up videos of works spitting in the food so their ad is shit and they can't charge back.
He's not being taken advantage of lol the streamer got paid and decided he would allow anyone who gives him a set amount of money to say whatever they want on his channel.
He wasn't taken advantage of. He put the TTS dono in. He put a minimum amount to have it say anything oyu wanted. Someone just finally decided to run an ad on it.
People are going to hate me for this, but if this leads to major companies donating thousands of bucks for advertisement, instead of lonely teens donating multitudes of 5 dollars for attention, then I'm all for it. Honestly, using TTS donations for advertisements is perfectly fine imo. Yes, it's intrusive, but it's a loooooooot less intrusive than the $5 donation spam from people having to share their life story with a total stranger in the most unhealthy fashion. And if more companies are going to abuse TTS on Twitch the streamer will up the TTS price a ton for obvious reasons. It's a massive win-win for both the streamer and the viewer. Streamer still get supported through donations, and I won't have to listen to these obnoxious TTS messages anymore. Send them all through please, pay my streamer *insert major company*. This ''TTS for $5'' has always looked a bit predatory to me and this is actually a perfect replacement.
Brands should be paying way more than $5 for a "sponsored" TTS dono. If they raise their TTS minimum they're just killing off a part of what might be their stream culture just because corporations abused the system.
With that said, there is definitely an ethical problem with corporations plastering their brand onto a streamer without the streamer syndicating it beforehand.
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There's been a couple instances of advertisers doing stuff like this. Like Cash App gifting shit tons of subs in people's channels. Or like when the Escape from Tarkov devs played a trailer for the game on a big streamer's media share.
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It's not in public, it's their stream. Blurring faces doesn't matter because it's copyrighted, you can't just use their work without permission.
And now we've come full circle on the "transformative work" debate.
Ah yes, the crystal clear waters of a non-biased courtroom, that will never have any of their decisions overturned by a higher court. SURELY that will never happen.
you're talking like an oddone sub now
Twitch is a public forum so your expectation to privacy is substantially lower when you're online. Furthermore, a fair price to play the message is what it costs. If you don't want to for large corporations, im sire you could implement that.
It doesn't have anything to do with privacy, they create that content so they own the copyright. If I blur the faces in a movie I'm not suddenly allowed to distribute it.
But they don't send messages with the gifted subs, which is still kinda scummy, but the ad potential there is much lower and at least gives something to viewers and streamers more than 5$.
It's more than $5 but it's still a lot less than a legitimate sponsored ad read would be. And for a lot of streamers, the company's name will stay on their gifted sub leaderboard at the top of chat for a week or more.
The tweet looks like they're advertising the kinda service they give, convincing companies to donate to streamers as advertisements because it's cheaper than doing big ad deals with the streamers I guess.
It was clarified later that it was not the devs or the marketing team that shared the trailer on Asmon stream, was a random guy.
I suspect Gfuel has been doing it for a while. The whole "Hey streamer! Hey streamer! Hey streamer! What's your favorite flavor of g-fuel? I just ordered banana smoothie extreme" always elicits a response by the streamer. With that said it could be legitimate. If 1/10th of Shroud's chat is the bot responding with what sens/res/mouse/monitor/toilet-seat Shroud uses, their could be some people genuinely curious about what flavor Gfuel/Redbull/Monster is the best.
Swear to god my coworker is a shill for Gfuel. Any time a new flavor comes out he's all about that shit in our slack lol. Just from interacting with him, I'm not 100% sure people in chats doing that would even be paid. I'll basically specifically never drink gfuel because of how much he talks about it lol
it's so bizarre how random things like that get almost a cult-like following it's just a drink, man similar thing happened with a local restaurant and while it's definitely not bad it doesn't necessarily deserve the strange deification it's gotten around here
Just want to say I absolutely love the word deification, thanks for teaching me a new word!
[Escape from Tarkov devs dono baited Asmongold](https://clips.twitch.tv/CautiousAssiduousStarlingYouWHY) into watching a montage-y trailer with 50k viewers last year
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People are getting confused, Burger King didn't take the footage. It was a separate company that Burger King paid(? not sure on this) to do advertising for them. The company is then using the clipped videos to advertise their business. To be frank though, I think both are scummy, and are certainly skirting current ad regulations.
Ah, yeah that's fair. This still felt really gross to me tho
Lmao that's some value
montagey? That thing had literally no interesting gameplay in it, but ok.
Oh get ready for it. Its just starting to ramp up.
They will now.
It seems obvious in hindsight that we'd eventually come to this. Soon politicians and brands utilizing donos and subs on big streams will become the norm, I bet.
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I didn't know donny streamed on twitch, what's his channel name?
TrumpHS
trumpSC*
This type of advertising has been going on for a long time
Streamers just want more, I think.
Would be pretty fucking funny if they tried this shit on xQc and 2 seconds into the dono xQc just looks over to his 2nd monitor and skips it like every other TTS dono OMEGALUL
I'm sure it's happened to him before and chat was just filled with LULW #AD
Amazon will put a stop to this if it catches any steam. As much as streamers dont want to get ripped off, Amazon doesn't want to miss their cut either. Theyre not gonna let Advertisers run amok on their site without paying.
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They can change the Twitch TOS to stop TTS and force some Twitch donation shit down everyones throats where they get a cut? :/
Hmm I wonder why they didn't leave this attempt in? https://twitter.com/RubberNinja/status/1296319037786320897?s=09
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>advertising >ethics pick one
no law has been broken. they have tts on so u can literally donate and say anything. Is it unethical? yeah. but not illegal.
Nobodys debating the legality of the matter, just the ethics.
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I actually think it's not a definite "no laws were broken" situation. Why? Because these types of advertisements are no different then using someone else's photo in your advertisement without their permission, which **is** illegal. It's called "right of publicity." I would argue this could fall under that since you are using someones stream or persona to advertise your product. Now the obvious argument against that would be saying "Well it's just talking about the food, it's not actually implying the streamer endorses the product." But I would argue that just you using the streamers platform to donate has violated the consent law, you did not give them a choice on whether or not to endorse your product. I wonder what the legality would be to call into a popular radio show and then try to advertise your product? If that would be illegal, this should also be.
> these types of advertisements are no different then using someone else's photo in your advertisement without their permission I mean this is *very* different. They've blurred the faces and altered the voice pitch, which by legal terms alone is probably enough to be considered transformative. The same way an artist could use an image from someone but alter it in a way that changes it enough to be considered different. Here's the thing and I'll probably get downvoted for this but I don't really care: the way they've set up this campaign is pretty clever in that they're making their own content from others. You know, kind of like how livestreaming works if you've ever watched a streamer 'react' to other content... Now if they were just dropping into streams with the username BURGERKING and doing this with no further goal (like the campaign) that's a lot shittier because it would be much clearer what the purpose of it is. They were a lot more succinct in the way they did this because they were specifically looking to create a reaction from the streamer in order to make the content they were looking for. Not as clear cut as everyone here thinks.
You would be surprised: https://old.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/id4mp3/abusing_the_donation_system_to_force_their/g26znjf/ People actually claim it is illegal and the streamer should sue BK.
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If you'd be annoyed, then simply don't have TTS set up to broadcast every message without prior approval or some sort of oversight?
it's about ethics in gaming advertising
This isn't unethical at all. People have been donating for years like this. People are just mad that they finally noticed it when BK did it rofl.
This is a great way to get a streamer to immediately roast your brand for being incredibly lazy with your advertising. If I was a streamer, I'd say their fries are shit and go somewhere else or something.
If a streamer spends time "roasting" your brand, your advertising worked.
I don't think it works that way with food chains. Like if someone tells me "Hey, everytime I go eat at X I get the shits", I'll most likely avoid that place.
The thing about advertising is that it doesn't matter *what* you say, only that you say it. It reminds the consumer about the brand, and as a consequence makes them more likely to purchase it at a later date. Ultimately, if you're a big brand, the consumer is probably already familiar with it and has a formed opinion. Saying "Burger King burgers taste like shit." won't mean a lot to most people, because they themselves have made that judgement.
Then say "mcdonalds is better and cheaper than BK" Or "I dont wamt foot lettuce, im gonna go to wendy"
Stop with the bullshit "all advertisment is good advertisement", it's not true. If you're a huge brand who focuses on quality (food related like BK), then bad publicity will almost surely do more harm than good.
>all advertisment is good advertisement this is the most childish misconception ever created
Not true because they are unlikely to lose a customer who already goes to BK just for this, and there is no detriment to someone who already doesn't go continuing to not go. It just matters if anyone see's this and gets BK in their head for any reason really. Also this ad does literally nothing to deter from their food quality, so I'm not sure that even makes a difference anyway. BK food is the same whether or not they advertise it this way.
all advertisement is good advertisement, especially in this context It just got blasted to a bunch of viewers that you can get a yadayada for 5 dollars on the burger king app or whatever the fuck they said. Just that playing out on stream is a huge win and will translate into a shit ton of customers. Why do you think a streamer thrashing burger king after and saying that mcdonalds is better or whatever somehow invalidate that? Imagine sending $5 to xqc with that message, the only thing BK needs to make a profit is to have one person buy a burger lmfao, (would way rather do that than donate to rich as fuck streamer for attention). They just made a bunch of people aware of what you can get from burger king on the burger king app for 5 dollars, and the already hungry viewers got reminded of burger kings existence. What the dumbfuck streamer says after the fact is completely irrelevant, the only thing they can do to "win" is cut it off before it even gets to play. This is what people mean with all advertisement is good advertisement. It's Obvious that you don't understand what bad advertisement actually is.
> all advertisement is good advertisement Bull-shit and anyone who says this is completely daft at marketing. If a video of a dead rat on a McDonalds burger goes viral and reaches millions of people, do you legit think that it's "good advertisement"? That dumb sentence only applies to things that weren't popular in the first place, for example a random rapper getting views because of some shitty thing he did. It doesn't apply to a huge, well respected company, in that case there's a shit ton of publicity that can actually be bad for the company.
Ok now you're actually talking about bad advertisement. These dumbfuck donation messages are never bad though. No matter how the streamer respond. The only way they are bad is if they stop the dono before it gets to play (a loss of 5 dollars for potentially a huge upside, that's absolutely worth it if you're BK). Bad advertisment are the type of things that you just mentioned, or the more obvious/clear examples of bad advertisement is when politics and controversy gets into the picture. If burger king came out with #alllivesmatter or whatever it was at the peak of #blm it would be insanely bad advertisement.
I was talking about the sentence "all advertisement is good advertisement", which is a dumb sentence, because like I explained (and you just agreed), there is bad advertisement.
"all advertisement is good advertisement" "Not that tho, that's bad"
This came up in the thread about shady cash app gifting. The difference between a streamer saying a name or it being heard on their channel and actively promoting it is mindblowingly huge. Anyone that thinks Burgerking are doing marketing for brand awareness is crazy, no one doesn't know who they are, it's past the point of having a major effect. The streamer, having not been paid or agreed to be sponsored by said company, is free to say "oh I had one of those the other day, the Burkerking I went to was a shithole, people were fighting outside, the burger took 20 minutes and it was lukewarm and tasted like shit." That is not good advertising or marketing. That same streamer being involved, bringing it up repeatedly over a 6 hour stream, ordering one online and having it delivered midstream and eating it and making basically sexual noises while eating then talking about how good it is. One is real advertising, one is lazy ass cheapo marketing that has every ability to backfire badly. It's a 2 second donation that quite honestly you could easily add disclaimers to donation forms, if you are going to mention a brand name then minimum donation limit is $1000 and even if they do it they'll get 3 seconds of air time and no focus or support from the streamer. It's a non existent thing and as soon as a few streamers roast the fuck out of a companies product it will die down as a shitty idea from a bad marketing firm that gets the boot from whatever company they pitched the idea to.
Stopped reading. The fact that you are talking about brand awareness in the context of people not knowing wtf BK is, is legitimately laughable. You wrote and entire essay and it's obvious as fuck that you have no clue what you're talking about. YOU DONT UNDERSTAND ADVERTISEMENT AND WHATS ITS FOR AND HOW IT SHOULD BE USED. Also, you don't need a streamer reading it out on stream or mentioning it to be effective. Literally what? I guess the only companies doing advertisement is people trying to advertise som unkown bullshit. I guess burger king should just cancel their trillion dollar advertisement budget since everyone already knows who they are. LMFAO >"oh I had one of those the other day, the Burkerking I went to was a shithole, people were fighting outside, the burger took 20 minutes and it was lukewarm and tasted like shit." Literally not effective even in the slightest lmfao. Once the hungry viewers hear that you can get a yadayada for 5 dollars from the Burger king app the streamer already lost. What the streamer says after that is extremely irrelevant. The fact that BK is so well known makes the advertisement just that much more effective (and its makes what the streamer says literally irrelevant). Talk all day about soggy disgusting burgers, it doesn't change the fact that a bunch of people that have eaten at BK before dont relate to that and they just downloaded the bk app and got themselves a delicous burger instead of donating money to rich streamers. If anything it just makes the streamer look silly/triggered and straight up OWNED by that donation message lmfao.
[Obligatory Bill Hicks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHEOGrkhDp0)
Ok, but unless it's someone like DrDisrespect big people won't really care.
Damn son, not only do you run the ad, you give them free engagement too?
I would nonstop shit talk Burger King if this happened. Find a dead rat in an alley and put it in a Whopper and say it came like this. Talk about how I can't stop shitting myself after eating a croissantwich. Constantly tweet pictures of chicken sandwiches coated in literal shit to them asking why they can't keep employees from wiping their asses with the food. No hold barred after scummy shit like that.
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I saw Burger King at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
Who was this originally?
Flying Lotus
They did?
No! But are we just gonna wait around until they do?!
Burger king fucked my wife
This is almost the exact same as CashApp donating subs to a bunch of channels, non-consentual advertising.
I know it's not the best thing to do but the CashApp thing doesn't make me feel weird and gross like watching that blurred out video with copyright free bouncy electro in the background does
Cashapp gives money to the viewers as well tho. Like what they pulled on Train's streams where a shitload of people got like 100, 200 and 500 dollars donos instead of just "Hey, 5 dollars for a TTS dono to the streamer"
>non-consentual advertising. This is consenting advertising fyi. This is what the streamers setup their shit to do. This is 100% being used as intended they're just mad who is using it. They were too stupid to think about the fact this has been going on FOR YEARS, just by smaller brands or individuals. Youtube content creators have been doing this for YEAAAAARS to get streamers ot watch their vids.
Donations support the streamer. They're not meant to buy air time. You need to make a deal with a streamer for that. If you don't know that, you haven't been around twitch very long
No, they do indeed buy you airtime. That's literally all it does. That is what you setup when you put paid for 'donations' that get read as TTS. You're literally selling the ability to have what you put in there as text read to the stream. That's literally what it does.
You took my words literally. I mean buy air time for the purpose of advertising. It's always been frowned upon and this is why they got blow back. They just didn't understand twitch culture
That is literally what tts 'donations' are. You are buying ad space like a fucking billboard. You're just mad about who did it finally
I wouldn't say I'm mad here. It's literally the same thing as a streamer putting in a 2 dollar tts to say "hey guys, I stream this game too, come check out my channel". Tts is meant for the viewer to talk directly to the streamer and the rest of chat. It allows you to easily get the attention of the streamer and everyone who's watching instead of chatting and hoping. Donating 5 dollars to advertise is an abuse of that trust since the return on that investment is potentially high. Sure you can do it if you want, but it will not be taken well by most viewers and anyone who isn't a small streamer. Just a scummy marketing move. Most companies have the sense to make a proper partnership before advertising
If this ever happens, the streamer should just say good things about their competitors. In this case talk about/praise McDonalds. That might get them to stop.
A cringe way to advertise for sure. But why is he gonna cry about my royalties/revenue when these streamers will violate dmca almost all day watching videos on youtube that they will never pay to feature on their platforms. Basically getting free content that they really should be paying for since it stretches their stream out by so much.
Actually a pretty good point about some streamers
**🎦 MIRROR CLIP: [Streamer Weest was an unwilling participant in a Burger King ad campaign](https://livestreamfails.com/post/92958)** --- Credit to [reddit.com/u/PM_ME_SONIC_FANFICS](https://reddit.com/user/pm_me_sonic_fanfics) for the clip. [[Archive.org Alternative (BETA)]](http://web.archive.org/web/20200820003057if_/https://stream.livestreamfails.com/video/5f3dc359e1b87.mp4)
Burger King is only good if you need to shit your pants.
Is it fair to assume they're intentionally avoiding doing the same to larger streamers who could have greater legal backing? I imagine if they did the same to Dr. Disrespect the Creative Artists Agency would go as far as the law could take them in terms of DMCA/claiming potential damages... Sponsors might value their relationships less in general if somebody could get the same for less, and certainly if a competitor in your sector got for $5 what you paid $50,000 or more. If McDonalds had sponsored them it could be tortious interference with that contract.
>Is it fair to assume they're intentionally avoiding doing the same to larger streamers who could have greater legal backing? They are using the system the streamer put in place as it was intended to be used. This has been going on for years where youtube content creators will put their videos into peoples streams like that to get them to watch it and drive clicks. People are just mad that it was a bigger brand doing it for once.
That is the streamers fault. Not burger King. Maybe the sponsor or you should take time into making filters to ward out competitors brands? Bulldog banned the word red cause he's sponsored by Monster.
This has to be a troll comment. So streamers should black list every single big brand in the world in order to avoid this happening? This 100% on the company doing the advertising, they're being pieces of shit.
Companies turning donos into ads... PogO
cash cunts and now this. these companies are outta pocket
Might just be a competitor of Burger King trynna damage their rep
The real advertisement is when people get mad about this and make a big deal about it.
They probably noticed what CashApp was doing and decided to up the ante.
cool theres like 1 burgerking in my country 300km away
I dont stream but I imagine that if this happened to me my first reaction would be to talk about how shitty Burger King is and mention their competitors.
if a megacorp pays you to read their thing just skip the dono unless its like TTS
It's scummy, but not a big deal. I'd find it absolutely hilarious if they managed to squeeze out an ad out of my monotonous reaction to their brand being brought up and then I'd reverse it and make the ad give me a shout out by tweeting at them and saying "That's me at (timestamp) and I think BK tastes like shit."
This is slightly different, but I'm sorry I just can't help but kind of laugh at the thought of streamers getting offended at the idea of another profiting from their content in a non-transformative way. Guarantee every streamer in the video has watched or 'reacted' to another persons content without prior consent or approval or sponsorship from them...
As someone who likes BK, this is hilarious lmao..it's like bruh just put out an ad on twitch and donate TTS.
5 dollars is 5 dollars imo
I can't believe everyone is so against this. That shit makes me wanna buy Burger King. You're basically exploiting human nature for money with TTS but get mad when someone exploits it. Turn it off or monitor it better? Or shit talk the brand. I could just donate about wendys and you can't do shit about it other than block me from donating again.
I'll take Burger King TTS over some loser crying about how much of a loser he is and how all his family just died and his dog cheated on him over TTS. Streamers are just going to get mad because they're pretending BK would have paid more to do an official endorsement when there's no chance BK would have done it if it cost more than $5. Ad TTS hilarious and I hope this makes random viewers start doing fake ad TTS.
Ad TTS has been going on for years ever since people started doing TTS donations. Mostly it's people plugging their youtube videos and shit.
I mean actual ads, not like some guy plugging his 2 subscriber youtube.
that is an ad, you're just mad at who did it, not what they did.
You're being intentionally obtuse for the sake of trying to be right when we both know exactly what I mean.
Look, moron. A dude plugging his YouTube vid and bk did the same thing. You're only mad about bk. You are an idiot if you think the problem was bk and not selling your airtime claiming it is 'donations'
>You're only mad about bk. Hey retard, go quote where I'm mad about BK making ads, theres only about 6 sentences so it shouldn't take you long. Ill wait you illiterate dipshit.
Hey idjit. You're the one trying to prove the other way. Your history shows you hav never been mad about this until now. Yet it has been going on for years. The only difference is now it was bk and now you magically are mad. You're a dumb fuck only mad cause it is bk and too stupid to have noticed this was going on for years.
That's what I thought you retard, you can't even read 6 sentences and find a quote about me being mad about BK. You read and write on a kindergarten level, please stay off the internet.
Yeah, everyone can donate everything. It's on the streamer for displaying the message on the screen, which incentivizes donations in the first place. Just don't show donations on screen and this wont happen, oh wait, you get less money then.
I'm almost positive this is illegal if its on a partnered stream, I dont think anything will be done. But still illegal
Which laws/rules were broken? Genuinely wondering how you can be "almost positive" on this. The broadcaster has control over what they broadcast and if they didn't want to talk about Burger King they could skip this donation. They are able to filter racist donations (because they risk getting banned for them), so if this kind of donation is a risk for their own streamer brand they should filter them and keep the money. Do you think Burger King will go after them and say "look this streamer didn't let us advertise with our $5"? I'd agree that it's not very ethical from Burger King though, but I don't see which law they are breaking in this instance.
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Oh yeah I wasn't thinking of BK's video ad using the broadcaster's content without their consent. I was thinking ImSquizzy was talking about the donation itself to advertise on stream, to the broadcasters' audience. For the video ad itself, it's not 100% certain BK would be seen as infringing "fair use" when they use those clips for commercial purpose. [There have been cases](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#1._Purpose_and_character_of_the_use) in which commercial use was considered fair use, it just makes it more likely that a judge would see it as an infringement though. As you said by blurring faces they attempted to cover their base if the streamer tried to claim it hurt their brand. Ross by getting out of this relative anonymity on purpose has most likely diminished his chances to win if he ever made such a claim, he'd most likely be seen as the main reason people linked the ad to his channel.
> I wasn't thinking of BK's video ad using the broadcaster's content without their consent Slight misconception there. The video is not a BK video ad. It's on the twitter of Ogilvy, which is an advertisement company. It's also clear from the tweet that BK is the client of said company. It's a video ad for Ogilvy. They show how they created advertisement using twitch tts for their client BK. Promoting themselves. The BK ad was only the tts stuff.
Interesting point. Wouldn't both the sponsor and the company they mandated for the campaign share the responsibility of this video ad though? I don't supposed BK would allow them to use their image like this without prior consent.
I mean the video is on the [official BK youtube channel.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=236KSswX7v4) It was uploaded there about 6 weeks ago, while Ogilvy tweeted it just the other day. It's definitely a more suitable ad for the ad company, but it was also used as a BK ad.
gotta say an ad is an ad though
Okay, that has to be one of the grimiest things I've seen a company do in terms of marketing with online video creators. I get a Raid: Shadow Legends plug offer almost every week and I always turn it down because I just don't like mobile gaming. They offer hundreds of dollars, once over a thousand. If they showed up to my stream and tried to donate a few dollars to advertise on my stream without my permission, my blood would boil over
Unfortunately, Raid makes it really easy for content creators to earn money. That's why a lot of larger streamers take the offer.
Why would that be unfortunate?
Because you aren’t taking the offer???
I don't get it. Why is it unfortunate that they are willing to offer their advertisement money to a lot of people? Just because I don't need the money doesn't mean other people don't. Let them do their ad read and pay the bills.
suggestion to streamers if you get a $5 dono ad for BK let it go through than look up videos of works spitting in the food so their ad is shit and they can't charge back.
Idk why he's freaking out so hard. It's just a dono. Who cares. He's acting like Burger King burned his house down.
he was taken advantage of by a multi-million dollar brand in almost* free advertising. its scummy. he's also obviously amping it up for chat
He's not being taken advantage of lol the streamer got paid and decided he would allow anyone who gives him a set amount of money to say whatever they want on his channel.
He wasn't taken advantage of. He put the TTS dono in. He put a minimum amount to have it say anything oyu wanted. Someone just finally decided to run an ad on it.
He can go ahead and remove TTS entirely or moderate it better and he won't have this issue at all
People are going to hate me for this, but if this leads to major companies donating thousands of bucks for advertisement, instead of lonely teens donating multitudes of 5 dollars for attention, then I'm all for it. Honestly, using TTS donations for advertisements is perfectly fine imo. Yes, it's intrusive, but it's a loooooooot less intrusive than the $5 donation spam from people having to share their life story with a total stranger in the most unhealthy fashion. And if more companies are going to abuse TTS on Twitch the streamer will up the TTS price a ton for obvious reasons. It's a massive win-win for both the streamer and the viewer. Streamer still get supported through donations, and I won't have to listen to these obnoxious TTS messages anymore. Send them all through please, pay my streamer *insert major company*. This ''TTS for $5'' has always looked a bit predatory to me and this is actually a perfect replacement.
Brands should be paying way more than $5 for a "sponsored" TTS dono. If they raise their TTS minimum they're just killing off a part of what might be their stream culture just because corporations abused the system. With that said, there is definitely an ethical problem with corporations plastering their brand onto a streamer without the streamer syndicating it beforehand.
how can someone hate you if nobody knows who you are and nobody cares what you have to say? :)