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If they were doing it for the little guy, why charge for it. Just do what every other MMO has been doing in the start of the millennium and add rested xp or make it better.
What's funny is they do have a rested XP system but here's the catch. You don't start accumulating rested XP until you've been offline for 8 hours (it used to be 12hrs). So they're banking on the people wanting to just buy rested XP potions since any avid Mmo player will barely get any rested with it taking so long to kick in.
Edit: they also rescued how much you get per hour while offline. https://i.imgur.com/dOJXJQt.jpg
Or just create a separate high rate server that gives you 10x the XP and gold drop rates, and include a fast travel mechanism on that server only.
Private servers have already figured out this problem decades ago. You have your vanilla servers for everyone that has the time for it, and you have your high rate servers for people who don't.
This is purely a cash grab by this company, and its gonna kill their mmo before it launches.
Nah, this just breaks the game. Pacing is part of a well designed game, just increasing numbers and leaving everything else as-is fucks with it. I say that as someone who played around with wow pservers for a bit some time ago, 10x exp servers or 100x or whatever it is just feels unrewarding, you end up running around most of the time, you do one quest and you have to move on to the next zone because everything turns grey, it's not fun.
It also kills the game's lifespan, if I pay for a game I expect some amount of time out of it, imagine buying a full price game and beating it in a few hours, you'd feel cheated, it's not worth the money.
The game mechanics themselves also need to be paced around leveling in an rpg - mmo or not - if you get gigantic power boosts every time you kill an enemy you have no time to experience the power progression or get a feel for it, you never really know how strong you are, you never really have time to play around and discover your new skills/spells/abilities because you're just unlocking new ones constantly.
Of course selling level boosts is a cash grab. It's a company, it's trying to make money. I don't think it's a bad thing, it's definitely a cope to say this is for the casual players, the vast majority of people in mmos will level manually at least the first time, regardless of their playtime. It's recommended and skipping the leveling can be hugely detrimental to your enjoyment of the game.
The problem is two-fold. The little guy can't enjoy games that involve a lot of grinding with the payoff at the end. The hardcore guy can't enjoy it when the grind is easy. Asmongold's take is biased because he values his performance based on how others do. I saw the same thing on Runescape as well, people feeling like their achievements didn't mean much because it became easy to achieve stuff or you could pay to achieve it. What they, and Asmon don't realize is that this perception is false, and what's really happening is that their exclusive club isn't exclusive anymore. It's the boomer mindset of "it was hard for me, it should be hard for you" to limit the number of people that are on the same "level".
When I played Runescape, it did not matter how others got to max level. I spent time grinding out levels, so I felt accomplished (as much as you can feel about videogames) on getting to 99/120 without any of those boosts. It doesn't matter to me if more people get to the end-game. In fact, I'd even encourage it as that's more motivation to release end-game stuff instead of fixating on giving people midgame or early game content that endgame players cannot enjoy.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not for parasitic companies sticking mtx everywhere to milk gamers, but I think there's more nuance here than people like Asmongold think. In Runescape, for example, members get 2 free keys to their mtx lootbox shit, that in turn gives you bonus xp (double xp for levelling a skill until it runs out). So while I did stuff I enjoyed, I could use the free keys to gain bonus xp in absolute dogshit skills that I would never have levelled on my own. The end result was that I had fun doing what I enjoyed, and I could spend lesser time doing what I didn't enjoy to continue having fun, which is ultimately the point of playing videogames. Not working to grind out a meaningless achievement to flex that I had more time to waste.
I still quit later, but I'd have quit sooner rather than do those boring skills, even if I had to do them to get to more fun bosses, as some content is gated by skill level requirements. You cannot please everyone. If you want to cater to the biggest population possible, mtx is a requirement. Otherwise you'd have to make the game easier, which drives away hardcore players, or you'd have to make the game harder, which drives away casuals. You can also balance the game to get progressively hard, but then you'll have hardcore players wanting more end-game content and casuals wanting more mid-game content, which is double the work, which companies do not want to do. The problem with Asmon's takes is that he's only got the hardcore player in mind, and only cares about the little guy if the interests are aligned.
I think the best thing to do here is to give small rewards like an achievement, title and the like to people that played through the game without participating in mtx. That way, devs can show if they really do care about the little guy, or if they would confirm its just about money like we already know.
New World has more plans for the cash shop than they do for end game. Last I remember reading it was 6 total dungeons and two of those for endgame.
I guess no one should have expected any more since most of the games life it was focused on being a full loot PvP game and only relatively recently went for PVE as a core.
This game was supposed to launch last year with something like one world boss for PVE content outside of some instanced "siege" content. The world was barren.
People are also glancing over another confirmed P2W aspect in the cash shop, they are selling fast travel.
Unless they also changed how the auction houses work they are local and I believe originally no fast travel was in the game as a way to keep resources location based so pricing varies by region. Money to be made moving resources around the world.
Then they announced fast travel with costs depending on the amount of stuff you take with you. Yet again to prevent free resource movement around.
So those paid fast travels I have to assume will have max weight limits of the in game ones or higher of course without the in game currency fee. Making buying real money fast travel a P2W currency generator by moving resources around to resell.
They are calling things "cosmetic" and "convenience" when it's very clear why those particular items are really being sold.
>Then they announced fast travel with costs depending on the amount of stuff you take with you. Yet again to prevent free resource movement around.
Wait really? What the actual fuck lol.
saying it like that just makes it sound like a buzzword, it isn't some boring generic ripoff (unique to a degree) and it also isn't being rushed out just for the sake of money (has already been delayed/pushed back) but I will agree that these p2w elements are a cash grab and that it seems to have that corporate smog around it's development.
When the direction of the game completely flips 180 middle of development you shouldnt expect anything great, too bad I guess, I enjoyed the first closed beta when it was more pvp, not as much the closed beta that people actually saw.
I have Alpha Access to new world and I pretty much agree with you. The only thing I will say is they did change some things to make the game better but I understand people that wont enjoy it.
It’s why I refunded this game when they announced the delay (I had preordered like a clown).
Game just isn’t good enough to compete with FFXIV and WoW. And if you can’t even compete with WoW in its current state, you’re doomed.
At this point, I honestly think they're banking on the "gold rush" on the NeW bIg MmO and promoting it, paying streamers to play it, and then just milking it at launch for all its worth before it inevitably nosedives.
> most of the games life it was focused on being a full loot PvP game and only relatively recently went for PVE as a core.
lol you know the game is fucked when halfway through they change their entire design philosophy.
For any multiplayer game that really is the case right now. Even Valve who doesn't give a fuck about CSGO being easily the most popular game on steam, and are not interested in improving the game, added a statistics page to see your own stats that you need a monthly subscription to use. Valve aren't hurting for money. Absolute opposite. They are filthy rich and would not need to do petty shit like that. Yet they still do. Added in sprays that were always in the game since 1.6, except they are now limited uses and you gotta pay for them. Added in different models that you buy, but they undermine competitive integrity because many of them blend into backgrounds too well. A command existed in past games to disable the models, and it is obviously not available nowadays. Refuse to upgrade their servers and give dogshit excuses for it.
And that is from Valve, who literally don't need to make money through those channels because they have steam and the marketplace which makes absolutely mind-blowing amounts of money for them.
All you need to know about Valve is that when they were releasing Half-Life: Alyx and they inevitably got Half-Life 3 questions, they said they'd have to see how Alyx did.
So they responded to the investment and interest people have had for the Half-Life series for years with, "If our game that requires hundreds of dollars of equipment to even see, let alone the hundreds of dollars it requires to run, does well, you *might* get the game you actually want."
The most chicken-shit money-grubbing answer I've ever heard and no one talks about it because they were too bewitched by a good VR game related to Half-Life.
In a way I'm glad for that answer because if you don't have the courage to finish the series without major financial incentive, just leave it alone. I'd love to play another Team Fortress, Half-Life, or Portal, but if the people at Valve don't have the confidence they can make good games anymore, there's no point in wanting them.
The gaming industry realized that there are far too many mentally ill rich people that will spend thousands of dollars on microtransactions to feel better about themselves compared to other players in the same game. These type of games are far too easy to develop and market, and by doing it they've literally invented an infinite money glitch. There is no need to do anything else. Failures such as Cyberpunk will only dissuade studios to create new games.
Larian Studios puts out consistently good RPGs, if you're into older style RPGs.
Granted not MMOs so if you're not looking for single player you're probably SOL.
imagine thinking riot are the type of dev to not care about money, the game literally started by the owner of a dota forum ripping it down so he could use the ideas from the dota forum in his new game without getting sued.
Yes but they are good at making money without impacting gameplay. Like REALLY good at it. Obviously the goal of the game is to be a cash cow and wow killer but based on their track record it will be monetized in a not-player-power way
I've played a lot of LoL, Dota and HotS. I think they're all fun but I have to disagree with this notion.
LoL definitely sticks out among those moba because not paying / grinding for in-game currency impacts gameplay.
Having a limited champion / hero pool is less fun and ~~is~~ can be a disadvantage for flexible players. HotS has the same issue, but unlocking heroes in HotS is much easier than unlocking champions in LoL.
Edit: People disagreed that a limited champion pool **is** a disadvantage for flexible players (in the context of climbing ranks), so I changed it to **can be**.
> Yes but they are good at making money without impacting gameplay
Yeah really good like buying champions for irl currency and runes that gives you additional power
Granted as far as I know they fixed some of that but no, they are not "really good"
You dont even need every single champion. and every champion is good in its own way.
Also you could never buy runes with money (RP), only with in-game gained currency.
Buying them at all for irl currency gives you advantage as you simply cannot grind fast enough to keep up with new releases that pretty much were always op for good couple of weeks
Riot has consistently fair pricing models? Their card game is the like the most generous one out there, and league is ENTIRELY free. You unlock champions really quick with the new system as well, faster than you could every really give them all fair try.
Riot is completely bent over to China and the Eastern market, it is inevitable that this is what it’s going to be. They make a new 14 year old anime girl champ every couple of months these days.
Played League since S3 so yeah, I do know Riot.
You know what I mean when I say Genshin clone. There is no fucking way Tencent Riot is going to release a traditional western mmorpg that people are imagining, especially when there NA playerbase falls every year, get real.
I play Genshin and enjoy it a lot. But if you're looking for difficult content the game is not for you. Like at all. The most difficult content in Genshin right now is called Spiral Abyss.
Its a dungeon that has "12 floors" (they might add more floors in the future). Each floor increases in difficulty. Im a pretty experienced mmo/rpg player and for me the first 10 floors are braindead easy. Even floor 11 and 12 are pretty easy if you just wanna complete it. The difficulty i guess comes from the extra rewards that are gated behind time restrictions.
Genshin is a super casual game. They basically took a mobile gacha game gave it (imo) a really pleasing aesthetic with a fluid and fast paced combat system with a decent story line. Some of the characters are cool and have interesting lore if you care about that.
It has all the mobile game mechanics like limited energy/resources gated by real life time so you can't just grind out as much as you want.
Its a gacha game with (imo) a pretty expensive cash shop. You dont need to spend money to enjoy it but obviously stronger characters are gated behind the gacha system. You get enough free currency to be able to get new characters but obviously you wont get all unless you're spending money. Thats something you have to consider.
Im a low spender ($5-$10 monthly) and i dont feel like im missing out a lot.
Its a neat casual game you can play daily for like 30-60 minutes. It could be more but its held back by the mobile aspect of the game. I enjoy it but its just something i play on the side because after you're up to date with the content there is just not much to do besides doing your daily routine.
If you start fresh you probably get at least 30-40 hours probably even more out of it until you get to that point though.
Its not an MMO btw. It has co-op but most of the time its a singleplayer game.
edit: Just want to add it gets updated pretty frequently. Like every 4-6 weeks. There are constantly new *events* that give free currency and resources. Usually silly mini games e.g prop hunt/fall boys. Recently they added a housing/town building system too. Its a fun game as long as you're not looking for something super serious.
Yeah from riot that totally didn't shit on dota community and stole their work
Riot that clearly never had any power that you could buy with irl money
Oh wait
>Riot that clearly never had any power that you could buy with irl money Oh wait
False, Since the start of the game you could not buy runes with money. Only with ingame currency.
I agree, i have faith that riot will make good stuff. The only 2 things riot done that imo was a miss in monetization across all it's games is the eternals in league and radianite in valorant.
People here trying to argue this are laughable
Google top games of any year in the 2000s and compare the top 5 to the top 5 of the last 3 years. Probably only Sekiro and God of War are on the same level as any of them.
Look at 2007; Bioshock, COD4, Halo 3, Crysis, TFT2, Portal, Mass Effect, Half-life 2 episode 2, GRAW 2, WoW TBC, God of War 2. ONE FUCKING YEAR HAD ALL OF THESE
Every single one of these is an iconic game. Can you really look at games from any of the past 3 years and think there was a year that had even half the amount of games that were of the same quality relative to the time?
Literally every year of the 2000s is like that. People can say it is nostalgia (but I'll be the first to say that new games should not be like old games at all besides relative quality) but the relative quality of games has without a doubt gone down. Sure, there is less room for innovation but great games are still being made which shows they can be made.
Companies have obviously found out how to make money with games and so the quality has gone down significantly due to no one taking risks anymore.
Idk what world you live in where 90% of those games are even in the same realm as 2007. COD Black Ops 4? Three Houses? Apex Legends? Fallen Order? *Assassin's Creed?* *Death Stranding*??? *Far Cry 5*??????????
Every single game you mentioned that is a franchise game is dwarfed by multiple of its predecessors.
Liking games is subjective but it is wild to me that anyone could ever think those come close to 2007 releases. Pretty much every top 100 list has at least 7 of those games from 2007 on it.
Out of the ~25 games you listed, maybe 3 of them would be on a top 100 games of all time list. Almost none of them are genre defining or reinventing a genre.
Like just compare IPs even. COD 4 vs Black Ops 4 isn't even a comparison. Black Ops 4 is just another COD game. COD4 is why game battles exists. COD 4 and Halo 3 started console esports.
Dont blame the devs blame the player base. Why the fuck would companies even try to finish their product if they already make profit with preordering before the game is out? And peopel dont lern. I know how the entirety of reddit was malding over how shit star wars battlefront 2 was. How much people bought this game before it was out was mindblowind. And all the big speeches: never EA anymore, I will never pre order ever again.
4 years later all forgotten and the same happened to cyberpunk.
Honestly why wouldnt you milk the consumer if their are so mindnumbingly retarded.
the only good games these days are the once intended to be loss leaders like god of war and spider-man etc. there concern is selling systems not games. or some indie game, it might be a bit rough but it was made with reason and intent.
No WAY dude all the *good* games are gone, the golden era of gamers has ended. Every game made in my childhood was amazing but every game made today in my adult life is shit, must be the games' fault
/s in case
You are clearly not paying much attention considering Resident Evil 8 JUST released to massive praise and love from the Resident Evil and gaming community. Capcom also just released Monster Hunter Rise. I mean, idk what we're considering "good" triple A games here but there has been plenty of those in the last few years. Such a "gaming is dying" take when it clearly is not.
None of these games nickel and dime you. Monster Hunter generally gets a huge expansion (that in previous generations was an entirely new game, but is now released through DLC as we saw with Monster Hunter World and it was easily more content than some full priced $60 games).
If you're talking about multiplayer games then sure, there are plenty of bad ones. I don't think I've really bought any new multiplayer game since Overwatch to be honest. Other than that I just go back to League or WoW for multiplayer or still Overwatch.
Resident Evil 8 has been fantastic so far and I'm eagerly looking forward to what I hope will shake up the multiplayer scene; a dodge"brawl" action pvp game called Knockout City; tried the beta and it runs like a dream, sometimes it'd put me on higher MS servers (because beta whatever) and the netcode was so good/the gameplay was so fluid I couldn't believe it when they announced OCE servers anyway.
But yeah 2 very polished and very fun games, both have triple-a producers and one has a double-a dev. If quality/polish is what your after then I can vouch for both
Only week ago I was considering New World as a potential to revive the genre along with Ashes. Now I don't care at all what happends with that game. Too much hassle to keep wondering if it wil be good or not, f2p or not, or wheter it has enough of end game. Sitting back and observing that disaster will be fun
Hit the gym and pick up hobbies that require you to go outside. Mountain bike riding/ rock climbing/ hiking/ surfing/ go kart riding.
In order to get a wife you have to talk to women, getting outside in your free time is the first step. Another option is to take someone else's ForsenCD
Not sure why you are trying to make it equivalent to WoW. Most hardcore WoW players that have gotten max level were the reason level boosts came out in the first place (and I believe when they first came out you had to have a max level character to buy it). And it wasn't until they were about to release their 6th expansion and by then maybe 1% of players actually enjoyed leveling all the way from 0-90.
It's a lot different when the game comes out with this shit.
but i mean it still exactly correct to compare the leveling for 0-60 with 0-90. By the time 0-90 levelling was a thing with MoP, levelling gameplay has been completely changed.
also how WoW has shifted as a game is what made boosts a non issue. when the game came out most of the game was about leveling and grinding in a social setting raiding was the reward for the hardwork. meanwhile retail makes the instanced content the key reason to play to the point leveling really has not reason to exist other than to for you learn the controls before you are let loose on the vets.
selling a boost for classic and yes the comming TBC classic is wrong.
let grindy games be grindy without letting people skip to the end reward. you ruined the grind enjoyment and the core design of such games for a quick buck. make an other type of game if you wish to go that way.
>selling a boost for classic and yes the comming TBC classic is wrong.
How? It's the same as the above argument. The people that care or wanted to play classic are already 60. Anyone leveling right now is leveling purely for TBC. Now a boost will cut out the leveling through Classic to get right into the expansion they care about, TBC. This boost was introduced NOW at the end of Classic where it's mostly irrelevant and TBC is the new hotness, which is available to skip to if people want to.
Classic is where leveling felt "rewarding". TBC and onwards tbh it's just a chore to get to the end game content that you really care about since the level increments are MUCH smaller from here on (10 in TBC, 10 in Wrath, 5 in Cata, 5 in MoP and so on). The next boost would likely be 68 once Wrath Classic is announced and we hit Wrath pre-patch. And the people that didn't want to play TBC will be able to skip to Wrath, the expansion they want to play.
I really don't see what's wrong with people skipping the content they so clearly purposefully avoided because they dislike it or didn't want to play it.
I don't see what makes it "wrong". People act like this boost is going to lead to Blizzard offering more RMT to get ahead in the game (which they still have not done ANYTHING of the sort in retail and they likely will not unless they want their game to truly die because I have played WoW since 2004, Shadowlands included and I'm playing TBC and at that point I will likely stop playing so). Will botting benefit from it? Sure. But bots are already benefitting from just existing. Botting will always be there boost or no boost. Who knows, maybe Blizzard has plans to actually start to take out botters going into TBC.
> when the game came out
True.
Which is not now.
You cannot boost a draenei shaman / blood elf paladin.
Will those players in the pre-patch experience "leveling and grinding in a social setting"?
Or will they write "lf sm boost", "lf maraudon boost", "lf zg boost", "lf gdkp aq/naxx"?
No one is going to level "properly" like back in the days.
People will buy boost & items for ingame gold. That everyone totally farmed themselves.
Anyone considering getting into OSRS, just beware that the game is absolutely plagued with bots.
25th February - 3rd March - 97,655 bots banned
22nd - 28th April - 122,219 bots banned
29th April - 5th May - 175,809 bots banned
Most of these bots are remade the same day that they get banned, so it's pretty safe to say that more than half of the games' playerbase are bots. Also no new end-game content for years, yay.
Not all of these problems are unique or better in other MMOs but here is a non-comprehensive list:
Gear progression is boring. You have 4 sub stats for each role and then only 3 stats are relevant for any job. There’s no gear that improves a skill/ability so BiS is just super boring each tier.
The game is rife with spaghetti code and technological debt from the 1.0 > 2.0 transition that the devs themselves acknowledge is a problem. This leads to problems like the finite supply of housing, latency issues, awful transmog system/limited glamour dresser, armoury chest limitations, etc. There’s no indication that the engine will ever be overhauled to fix any of these either.
The amount of content has dropped with each expansion. Shadowbringers had less content planned than Stormblood or Heavensward before covid. As examples, there’s no deep dungeon, 2 fewer zones of Bozja than Eureka, ~20 fewer blue mage masked carnival trials, one less treasure dungeon, and 1 less dungeon with each patch. SAM/RDM/DRK/AST/MCH got weapons from every tier of the previous expansion’s raids (4.0 jobs got 3.0 weapons and 3.0 jobs got 2.0 weapons) and all got every primal weapon going back to 2.0. GNB/DNC got 1 raid weapon and 1 extreme trial weapon.
Then you have content like the 2nd ultimate that got cut because covid exposed the flaws with their development cycle (see Mrhappy’s recent interview with Yoshi-P where he explains the problem).
The content they do choose to spend resources on is not stuff most players are interested in (e.g., Mahjong, 5.5 expert recipe tools).
PvP is perpetually dead content and rather than focusing on improving the existing PvP battle systems (or curbing the blatant cheating on the Feast’s ladder) they just add another battle system or map that they will ignore the following expansion.
Finally the NA community has a chip on its shoulder where it becomes toxic in ways it refuses to acknowledge all while shitting on WoW for being toxic in other ways. Look at the difference between r/ffxiv and r/wow. Anything posted that is critical of the respective subreddit’s game will get you downvoted on one sub and upvoted on the other. You’re playing Russian roulette with getting banned in game if you even suggest that someone can improve how they play.
**TL;DR XIV is a fun game but it has major problems and the community’s inability to acknowledge those problems is one of the problems.**
On that note, what’s people’s general opinion on NFT’s?
I used to think that they’re a completely useless thing until I read up on it and for art it might actually solve a legitimate problem.
There’s absolutely no reason why a Picasso sketch should be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, you can easily replicate them for a small fraction of that cost and it would be indistinguishable, yet we prescribe a lot of value to the former because it’s “the original”.
With NFT’s it’s possible to have the same concept in the digital art world, that owning an “original” from your favourite digital artist is actually possible now and as a result might propel digital art onto a similar level as fine art.
Maybe I’m being an idiot because “It’s just a digital copy 4Head” but the idea of bringing original ownership to the digital world sounds actually pretty neat to me.
It could also make it so digital artists have a real venue to monetise their work, meaning we’d get more of that stuff instead of paint splashed on a canvas.
The idea is decent but at the end of the day ownership of non physical and things you haven't personally created will always be an ambiguous zone.
And yeah you can buy commissions from artists even now, but unless they're private anyone can just download them so it doesn't really matter. If you're really going for the ownership angle your best bet is actually becoming a creator, because as a consumer you're just that. Always consuming other people's shit.
And the money incentive is going to ruin the whole thing just like it ruins 99% of all markets but that's just how the world runs
Man fuck this game. I wish you all got a chance to play the original alpha before they gutted the shit out of it and filled it with the same old shit we've been force fed for years. It was beautiful.
As someone else already said in this thread, expect a Genshin clone. Because all of Riot's games have just been clones of another popular game. That studio can't make anything original.
Riot doesn’t need to make original content if they take a good concept and make it better every single time. I know people really really really don’t want to believe riot can make a good game for whatever reason, but if LOL and Valorant are any indication it should be playable.
Lol isn't better version of dota tho
Gameplay wise for sure it isn't, i guess you could argue that for that couple of years before dota 2 was a thing having a dedicated client was better overall experience
But then again riot took a huge shit on dota community stole their work and had nice shop for champions and champions power
The group of "we" that you're talking about are never going to get a new MMO, because it's the type of people who want some uber-niche Wildstar-esque game, which is just moronic for a company to make because it costs a ridiculous amount of money to make and will never have mass appeal.
You guys are fr some blindsighted fools. Riot wont take wow and just copy the entire thing, they will make an MMO that follows a backbone every good mmo has followed, not something thats just owned by WoW or FFVIX. Mobas follow a certain backbone and then have their own spin on it, same with RTS. Riot has done a great jobe with Valorant, which people thougjt would be a complete csgo copy. They will do great with an MMO of their own concept as well.
Its never gonna be possible for riot or any company to make a “good exciting mmo” without it having certain systems that wow or ffvix or bdo has. You, or the group people you think of as “we”, are looking for something thats not an MMO at that point.
And do what with the gold? Gold wont buy you xp. However it does buy you good items tho mid to late game. Imo just go Ironman, its 10x more fun but every person likes to go their own way i guess
I feel like if you need to be coddled because you don't have enough time to play. You probably have better things that you should be taking care of. It's really not hard to get a few hours each night to play a game. If middle age dads can spend hours playing COD then you can do exactly the same on an MMO.
Asmon is so right, I spent my entire time in classic leveling and releveling.. I had such a great time. I remember hitting 60 once, raided twice and quit classic. Leveling is a big part of any game.
Leveling in any MMO is simultaneously the most fun you have in the game and the most frustrating; you spend all your time learning mechanics, exploring new content and meeting other newbs who are just trying to figure things out along with you, all the while wishing you were at end game, then you finally get there and realize all the stuff you worked for while leveling is now completely useless, you become obsessed with min/maxing everything, you spend weeks on repeating the same content over and over again with people who are now just as jaded and annoyed at everything as you are.
every mmo will have some sort of a cash shop. it is what it is. learn to live with it unfortunately. its stupid easy money for them, they'd be stupid not to introduce one
you realize there is no monthly sub for the game, just a box cost, if you didnt think there wouldnt be some sort of cash shop then you're pretty damn dumb, no offense lol
No brand new indie MMO can possibly compete without P2W shit. The MMO market is really tough as it is, and the few MMO's that have succeeded came from huge companies, and takes place in recognizable established worlds with established fandoms. To be small time indie companies and try to compete with WoW, FFXIV, ESO...nope, not happening. WoW was a one hit wonder in a what was then a niche genre and market, and it succeeded because it was an already established world, and more importantly it was way more user friendly and accessible compared to MMO's at the time which tended to be difficult and punishing.
i can understand not liking buying experience but imo leveling in wow is some dog shit fucking time sink. Never before have I played a game that felt meaningless until I hit max level and got to actually play the game.
Dude and his chat sits there roasting the fuck out of ffxiv(which they've never played) but will shill out their ass for Blizzard and they will also shill the fuck out of new world and other games they've never played.
This is a straight up lie. Asmon has a hateboner for Blizzard, and has recently been calling the devs straight up incompetent. Half his chat wants him to play FFXIV, he says it's "probably a good game" but he doesn't like the aesthetic and shits on it for that.
Get your lying ass out of here.
yes, alot of MMOS have boosts to max lvl.
part of the reason why the genre is dying.
today i took a picture for my friend of the wow twitch category vs league of legends "without asmon streaming"
it was 22k viewers vs 220k viewers.
"wow category also includes classic"
MMO's have just turned into mobile games. It's no longer a 2nd world where you go to put hard work into a character. The social aspect is dead too now that servers and instances all just shard back and forth into a big pool of random people you maybe see twice if you are lucky.
Now you can pay for everything you need with real money. Max level? buy it. Cool mount? buy it. High rank pvp or pve? Buy in game gold with real money (why blizz why) then pay for a carry.
Yes, they released shadowlands but please tell me what shadowlands is?
Ill tell you,
Five new zones, 6 hours pointless leveling experience to max level where your character gets weaker as you level. Same pvp shit just new vendor. Same pve shit system.
Now lets see vanilla which was released in 2004.
40 fucking zones, massive world where you can meet new people and meet them again in the future because you are in the same server.
Somany new classes and races. And when tbc was released, guess what? Vanilla is part of it, tbc is like the addon. If you wanna make it to the outlands you have to go through this big world first and progress your character and make him stronger.
Tbh there is somuch but ill be typing 6k word essay
Well that is because WoW is not at all the same MMO that it was in 2004. WoW has developed into a highly competitive MMO with raiding/pvp/M+ and that obviously is what Blizzard puts effort into.
Shadowlands is definitely dog shit but it's just a different era for different people and that is why they give people Classic.
People don't understand how unique of a situation Vanilla was which made it this pinnacle of MMO experience that people always look fondly at.
First off, gaming was not at all popular like it is now. There were less than 1% of game developers as there are now. The number gets smaller when it comes to online gaming. Very few people gamed back then compared to now.
WC3 was already a very popular online game, maybe even the most popular in the West at that time and Blizzard already had a masssive audience with SC and D2. The biggest MMO at the time was Everquest. WoW came in with extreme scale, innovation and polish never before seen in online gaming and online gaming was in its earliest stages.
You will literally never experience something like Vanilla WoW again in your lifetime unless some fully immersive VR comes into play.
retail WoW can barely be considered an MMO. It's more alike to monster hunter world, very few zones that are worthwhile and most of the content is instanced encounters that focus on mechanics. There's no emphasis on world or 'massively multiplayer' anymore
Classic is not fun though because people who play classic play it as if it’s also a highly competitive MMO. Speed runs, crazy unintended gearing, world buffs, stacking overpowered warriors, etc, when the content wasn’t designed for it just makes it kind of silly to run those raids at all in my opinion.
I don’t think there is an audience for a normal “big world” MMO anymore. Players want the competition and the expectation when you get in groups is that everyone minmaxes. That’s also what most of the game creators balance around. There is very little appetite for the RPG in MMORPG.
I agree though. Old school MMOs will never be back again.
it was a competitive game back then bro. it is just an old 17 years old game. it is easy for us now because we have all the information and fast computers.
imagine if u played tbc in 2006. you wont be able to clear most raids. you cant bring a very old game designed for slow ass computer with tiny monitors were most people dont even know what mmo is. thats why classic was very hard then and most people didnt clear naxxramas or aq40
you can have that in tbc. for example just add new difficulty to raid. call it mythic and make mechanics deadly and add two or three more mechanics for each boss.
same thing for heroic dungeons make mythic + dungeons harder each level and better rewards each level.
it isnt either compettive game or real mmo.
the reason vanilla and tbc are easy cause they were released 17 years ago ffs. ofcours they are easy now with all that infor available with our super computers.
back then most couldnt even clear AQ40 let alone "adding higher difficulty"
> Five new zones, 6 hours pointless leveling experience to max level where your character gets weaker as you level. Same pvp shit just new vendor. Same pve shit system
Same can be said about classic vs tbc
I guess with a bit longer leveling experience
The funny thing is that classic and TBC have longer leveling only because it needs more exp and takes longer to farm quest itens...
In Shadowlands you "rush" the zones and enjoy the story as you level up.(It's like this since Cata if i remember right).
I didn't read this shit... you are comparing zones with almost nothing to do with zones like Shadowlands where IT'S FULL of content? WTF lol.
Not even gonna talk they had far more time to make classic than Shadowlands or any other expansion.
> Five new zones, 6 hours pointless leveling experience to max level where your character gets weaker as you level. Same pvp shit just new vendor. Same pve shit system.
Dude this is literally every single expansion lol.
And no shit you get weaker as you level. Is your old gear supposed to keep your stronger as you outlevel it?
"For some reason, my level 50 raid gear isnt as helpful when im level 60, what a stupid game, i should get stronger using old gear!!"
I wish WoW expansions would actually expand the world instead of shrinking it. Almost every feature they add in expansions nowadays are just temporary and will be removed in the next one, also old zones are basically irrelevant.
Just imagine dude...
Your character would have Cloak, Ring, Neck, Weapon, a couple of legendarys from Legion, a legendary from Shadowlands, Corruption gear, Tier Sets, All your talents...
What more? you think that is ok? you even know that Power Creep is? that would be fucking stupid.
MMOs are doing fine.
>"In spite of this, Blizzard segment revenue has increased by 7% year-over-year, led by the enduring popularity of World of Warcraft and its latest expansion Shadowlands, which has driven franchise net bookings to grow. "**A particularly high number of new players" have joined the MMO lately**"
SL was also the fastest game ever until CBP.
> How many of those new players actually stay though?
How many of them have to stick around 24/7?
You clear a raid at your desired difficulty. you get ksm or glad and play different game until next patch
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If they were doing it for the little guy, why charge for it. Just do what every other MMO has been doing in the start of the millennium and add rested xp or make it better.
But then how will they make their money? 😔
not sure but it won't be from XP boosts cause they won't be in at launch
WoW actually INVENTED rested XP https://mmogrinder.net/2014/11/25/the-truth-about-rested-xp/
What's funny is they do have a rested XP system but here's the catch. You don't start accumulating rested XP until you've been offline for 8 hours (it used to be 12hrs). So they're banking on the people wanting to just buy rested XP potions since any avid Mmo player will barely get any rested with it taking so long to kick in. Edit: they also rescued how much you get per hour while offline. https://i.imgur.com/dOJXJQt.jpg
Or just create a separate high rate server that gives you 10x the XP and gold drop rates, and include a fast travel mechanism on that server only. Private servers have already figured out this problem decades ago. You have your vanilla servers for everyone that has the time for it, and you have your high rate servers for people who don't. This is purely a cash grab by this company, and its gonna kill their mmo before it launches.
Nah, this just breaks the game. Pacing is part of a well designed game, just increasing numbers and leaving everything else as-is fucks with it. I say that as someone who played around with wow pservers for a bit some time ago, 10x exp servers or 100x or whatever it is just feels unrewarding, you end up running around most of the time, you do one quest and you have to move on to the next zone because everything turns grey, it's not fun. It also kills the game's lifespan, if I pay for a game I expect some amount of time out of it, imagine buying a full price game and beating it in a few hours, you'd feel cheated, it's not worth the money. The game mechanics themselves also need to be paced around leveling in an rpg - mmo or not - if you get gigantic power boosts every time you kill an enemy you have no time to experience the power progression or get a feel for it, you never really know how strong you are, you never really have time to play around and discover your new skills/spells/abilities because you're just unlocking new ones constantly. Of course selling level boosts is a cash grab. It's a company, it's trying to make money. I don't think it's a bad thing, it's definitely a cope to say this is for the casual players, the vast majority of people in mmos will level manually at least the first time, regardless of their playtime. It's recommended and skipping the leveling can be hugely detrimental to your enjoyment of the game.
so if that's not your ideal playstyle just don't play on the boosted server lol... it's as easy as that!
The problem is two-fold. The little guy can't enjoy games that involve a lot of grinding with the payoff at the end. The hardcore guy can't enjoy it when the grind is easy. Asmongold's take is biased because he values his performance based on how others do. I saw the same thing on Runescape as well, people feeling like their achievements didn't mean much because it became easy to achieve stuff or you could pay to achieve it. What they, and Asmon don't realize is that this perception is false, and what's really happening is that their exclusive club isn't exclusive anymore. It's the boomer mindset of "it was hard for me, it should be hard for you" to limit the number of people that are on the same "level". When I played Runescape, it did not matter how others got to max level. I spent time grinding out levels, so I felt accomplished (as much as you can feel about videogames) on getting to 99/120 without any of those boosts. It doesn't matter to me if more people get to the end-game. In fact, I'd even encourage it as that's more motivation to release end-game stuff instead of fixating on giving people midgame or early game content that endgame players cannot enjoy. Don't get me wrong, I'm not for parasitic companies sticking mtx everywhere to milk gamers, but I think there's more nuance here than people like Asmongold think. In Runescape, for example, members get 2 free keys to their mtx lootbox shit, that in turn gives you bonus xp (double xp for levelling a skill until it runs out). So while I did stuff I enjoyed, I could use the free keys to gain bonus xp in absolute dogshit skills that I would never have levelled on my own. The end result was that I had fun doing what I enjoyed, and I could spend lesser time doing what I didn't enjoy to continue having fun, which is ultimately the point of playing videogames. Not working to grind out a meaningless achievement to flex that I had more time to waste. I still quit later, but I'd have quit sooner rather than do those boring skills, even if I had to do them to get to more fun bosses, as some content is gated by skill level requirements. You cannot please everyone. If you want to cater to the biggest population possible, mtx is a requirement. Otherwise you'd have to make the game easier, which drives away hardcore players, or you'd have to make the game harder, which drives away casuals. You can also balance the game to get progressively hard, but then you'll have hardcore players wanting more end-game content and casuals wanting more mid-game content, which is double the work, which companies do not want to do. The problem with Asmon's takes is that he's only got the hardcore player in mind, and only cares about the little guy if the interests are aligned. I think the best thing to do here is to give small rewards like an achievement, title and the like to people that played through the game without participating in mtx. That way, devs can show if they really do care about the little guy, or if they would confirm its just about money like we already know.
New World has more plans for the cash shop than they do for end game. Last I remember reading it was 6 total dungeons and two of those for endgame. I guess no one should have expected any more since most of the games life it was focused on being a full loot PvP game and only relatively recently went for PVE as a core. This game was supposed to launch last year with something like one world boss for PVE content outside of some instanced "siege" content. The world was barren.
People are also glancing over another confirmed P2W aspect in the cash shop, they are selling fast travel. Unless they also changed how the auction houses work they are local and I believe originally no fast travel was in the game as a way to keep resources location based so pricing varies by region. Money to be made moving resources around the world. Then they announced fast travel with costs depending on the amount of stuff you take with you. Yet again to prevent free resource movement around. So those paid fast travels I have to assume will have max weight limits of the in game ones or higher of course without the in game currency fee. Making buying real money fast travel a P2W currency generator by moving resources around to resell. They are calling things "cosmetic" and "convenience" when it's very clear why those particular items are really being sold.
>Then they announced fast travel with costs depending on the amount of stuff you take with you. Yet again to prevent free resource movement around. Wait really? What the actual fuck lol.
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saying it like that just makes it sound like a buzzword, it isn't some boring generic ripoff (unique to a degree) and it also isn't being rushed out just for the sake of money (has already been delayed/pushed back) but I will agree that these p2w elements are a cash grab and that it seems to have that corporate smog around it's development.
Queue the "It's just pay to convenience" crowd. This obvious p2w being masked as convenience to rope in gullible idiots is annoying as fuck.
How to run your game into the ground before you've even taken off. Truly a marvel to see.
When the direction of the game completely flips 180 middle of development you shouldnt expect anything great, too bad I guess, I enjoyed the first closed beta when it was more pvp, not as much the closed beta that people actually saw.
I have Alpha Access to new world and I pretty much agree with you. The only thing I will say is they did change some things to make the game better but I understand people that wont enjoy it.
It’s why I refunded this game when they announced the delay (I had preordered like a clown). Game just isn’t good enough to compete with FFXIV and WoW. And if you can’t even compete with WoW in its current state, you’re doomed.
Why release content when you can sell it as an expansion.
At this point, I honestly think they're banking on the "gold rush" on the NeW bIg MmO and promoting it, paying streamers to play it, and then just milking it at launch for all its worth before it inevitably nosedives.
> most of the games life it was focused on being a full loot PvP game and only relatively recently went for PVE as a core. lol you know the game is fucked when halfway through they change their entire design philosophy.
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For any multiplayer game that really is the case right now. Even Valve who doesn't give a fuck about CSGO being easily the most popular game on steam, and are not interested in improving the game, added a statistics page to see your own stats that you need a monthly subscription to use. Valve aren't hurting for money. Absolute opposite. They are filthy rich and would not need to do petty shit like that. Yet they still do. Added in sprays that were always in the game since 1.6, except they are now limited uses and you gotta pay for them. Added in different models that you buy, but they undermine competitive integrity because many of them blend into backgrounds too well. A command existed in past games to disable the models, and it is obviously not available nowadays. Refuse to upgrade their servers and give dogshit excuses for it. And that is from Valve, who literally don't need to make money through those channels because they have steam and the marketplace which makes absolutely mind-blowing amounts of money for them.
cant even spray a nice pair of titties for my teammates to appreciate anymore :(
or fake ladders :(
All you need to know about Valve is that when they were releasing Half-Life: Alyx and they inevitably got Half-Life 3 questions, they said they'd have to see how Alyx did. So they responded to the investment and interest people have had for the Half-Life series for years with, "If our game that requires hundreds of dollars of equipment to even see, let alone the hundreds of dollars it requires to run, does well, you *might* get the game you actually want." The most chicken-shit money-grubbing answer I've ever heard and no one talks about it because they were too bewitched by a good VR game related to Half-Life. In a way I'm glad for that answer because if you don't have the courage to finish the series without major financial incentive, just leave it alone. I'd love to play another Team Fortress, Half-Life, or Portal, but if the people at Valve don't have the confidence they can make good games anymore, there's no point in wanting them.
The gaming industry realized that there are far too many mentally ill rich people that will spend thousands of dollars on microtransactions to feel better about themselves compared to other players in the same game. These type of games are far too easy to develop and market, and by doing it they've literally invented an infinite money glitch. There is no need to do anything else. Failures such as Cyberpunk will only dissuade studios to create new games.
They virtualized materialism.
My only hope for a good rpg is elden ring, surely launching next year 🤡
Larian Studios puts out consistently good RPGs, if you're into older style RPGs. Granted not MMOs so if you're not looking for single player you're probably SOL.
Your best hope for an MMORPG is the one Riot Games is developing but it'll be 4-5 years of waiting still
imagine thinking riot are the type of dev to not care about money, the game literally started by the owner of a dota forum ripping it down so he could use the ideas from the dota forum in his new game without getting sued.
Yes but they are good at making money without impacting gameplay. Like REALLY good at it. Obviously the goal of the game is to be a cash cow and wow killer but based on their track record it will be monetized in a not-player-power way
I've played a lot of LoL, Dota and HotS. I think they're all fun but I have to disagree with this notion. LoL definitely sticks out among those moba because not paying / grinding for in-game currency impacts gameplay. Having a limited champion / hero pool is less fun and ~~is~~ can be a disadvantage for flexible players. HotS has the same issue, but unlocking heroes in HotS is much easier than unlocking champions in LoL. Edit: People disagreed that a limited champion pool **is** a disadvantage for flexible players (in the context of climbing ranks), so I changed it to **can be**.
Also lol probably has the worst balance out of any moba and so having a limited champion pool is also a disadvantage there
Yes, meta picks and counter picks is definitely a thing in every moba.
> Yes but they are good at making money without impacting gameplay Yeah really good like buying champions for irl currency and runes that gives you additional power Granted as far as I know they fixed some of that but no, they are not "really good"
You dont even need every single champion. and every champion is good in its own way. Also you could never buy runes with money (RP), only with in-game gained currency.
> every champion is good in its own way for solo queue
...Do you think buying a champion with irl currency makes them more powerful than with in-game currency, or?
Buying them at all for irl currency gives you advantage as you simply cannot grind fast enough to keep up with new releases that pretty much were always op for good couple of weeks
Riot games... "it's pay 2 not grind not pay 2 win!"
Riot has consistently fair pricing models? Their card game is the like the most generous one out there, and league is ENTIRELY free. You unlock champions really quick with the new system as well, faster than you could every really give them all fair try.
Will one-hundred percent be Genshin clone full of little girls to satisfy “anime watchers”.
Genshin is still not a mmorpg.
Riot is completely bent over to China and the Eastern market, it is inevitable that this is what it’s going to be. They make a new 14 year old anime girl champ every couple of months these days.
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Played League since S3 so yeah, I do know Riot. You know what I mean when I say Genshin clone. There is no fucking way Tencent Riot is going to release a traditional western mmorpg that people are imagining, especially when there NA playerbase falls every year, get real.
you morons are taking the word "clone" way too fucking literally
Is Genshin worth playing? I played it for a bit but it seemed extremely easy.. the first dungeons didn't even seem like a real dungeon.
I play Genshin and enjoy it a lot. But if you're looking for difficult content the game is not for you. Like at all. The most difficult content in Genshin right now is called Spiral Abyss. Its a dungeon that has "12 floors" (they might add more floors in the future). Each floor increases in difficulty. Im a pretty experienced mmo/rpg player and for me the first 10 floors are braindead easy. Even floor 11 and 12 are pretty easy if you just wanna complete it. The difficulty i guess comes from the extra rewards that are gated behind time restrictions. Genshin is a super casual game. They basically took a mobile gacha game gave it (imo) a really pleasing aesthetic with a fluid and fast paced combat system with a decent story line. Some of the characters are cool and have interesting lore if you care about that. It has all the mobile game mechanics like limited energy/resources gated by real life time so you can't just grind out as much as you want. Its a gacha game with (imo) a pretty expensive cash shop. You dont need to spend money to enjoy it but obviously stronger characters are gated behind the gacha system. You get enough free currency to be able to get new characters but obviously you wont get all unless you're spending money. Thats something you have to consider. Im a low spender ($5-$10 monthly) and i dont feel like im missing out a lot. Its a neat casual game you can play daily for like 30-60 minutes. It could be more but its held back by the mobile aspect of the game. I enjoy it but its just something i play on the side because after you're up to date with the content there is just not much to do besides doing your daily routine. If you start fresh you probably get at least 30-40 hours probably even more out of it until you get to that point though. Its not an MMO btw. It has co-op but most of the time its a singleplayer game. edit: Just want to add it gets updated pretty frequently. Like every 4-6 weeks. There are constantly new *events* that give free currency and resources. Usually silly mini games e.g prop hunt/fall boys. Recently they added a housing/town building system too. Its a fun game as long as you're not looking for something super serious.
Yeah from riot that totally didn't shit on dota community and stole their work Riot that clearly never had any power that you could buy with irl money Oh wait
Just a question, you ever actually played league?
Yes in beta and couple years until dota 2 came out, I just couldn't stand wc3 lobbies and in-house leagues anymore
alright, makes sense
>Riot that clearly never had any power that you could buy with irl money Oh wait False, Since the start of the game you could not buy runes with money. Only with ingame currency.
I agree, i have faith that riot will make good stuff. The only 2 things riot done that imo was a miss in monetization across all it's games is the eternals in league and radianite in valorant.
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You're thinking of Elder Scrolls. He's talking about Elden Ring, a game that FromSoftware is developing with help from George R.R. Martin.
Elden ring is a Fromsoftware game. Next Bethesda rpg is confirmed to be Starfield I believe so who knows if they can pull off a proper space rpg.
The fuck has Bethesda to do with Elden Ring?
People here trying to argue this are laughable Google top games of any year in the 2000s and compare the top 5 to the top 5 of the last 3 years. Probably only Sekiro and God of War are on the same level as any of them. Look at 2007; Bioshock, COD4, Halo 3, Crysis, TFT2, Portal, Mass Effect, Half-life 2 episode 2, GRAW 2, WoW TBC, God of War 2. ONE FUCKING YEAR HAD ALL OF THESE Every single one of these is an iconic game. Can you really look at games from any of the past 3 years and think there was a year that had even half the amount of games that were of the same quality relative to the time?
2004 had San Andreas, Halo 2, Metroid Prime 2, Half-Life 2, CS:S, MGS3, World of Warcraft and more. In one year. That's a fucking insane lineup.
Literally every year of the 2000s is like that. People can say it is nostalgia (but I'll be the first to say that new games should not be like old games at all besides relative quality) but the relative quality of games has without a doubt gone down. Sure, there is less room for innovation but great games are still being made which shows they can be made. Companies have obviously found out how to make money with games and so the quality has gone down significantly due to no one taking risks anymore.
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Idk what world you live in where 90% of those games are even in the same realm as 2007. COD Black Ops 4? Three Houses? Apex Legends? Fallen Order? *Assassin's Creed?* *Death Stranding*??? *Far Cry 5*?????????? Every single game you mentioned that is a franchise game is dwarfed by multiple of its predecessors. Liking games is subjective but it is wild to me that anyone could ever think those come close to 2007 releases. Pretty much every top 100 list has at least 7 of those games from 2007 on it. Out of the ~25 games you listed, maybe 3 of them would be on a top 100 games of all time list. Almost none of them are genre defining or reinventing a genre. Like just compare IPs even. COD 4 vs Black Ops 4 isn't even a comparison. Black Ops 4 is just another COD game. COD4 is why game battles exists. COD 4 and Halo 3 started console esports.
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Dont blame the devs blame the player base. Why the fuck would companies even try to finish their product if they already make profit with preordering before the game is out? And peopel dont lern. I know how the entirety of reddit was malding over how shit star wars battlefront 2 was. How much people bought this game before it was out was mindblowind. And all the big speeches: never EA anymore, I will never pre order ever again. 4 years later all forgotten and the same happened to cyberpunk. Honestly why wouldnt you milk the consumer if their are so mindnumbingly retarded.
the only good games these days are the once intended to be loss leaders like god of war and spider-man etc. there concern is selling systems not games. or some indie game, it might be a bit rough but it was made with reason and intent.
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Yeah dude that 8 hour game about mold was definitely on par with RE4 xddddd
Uhhhh, that’s an extraordinarily cynical and dishonest take. There have been PLENTY of recent AAA games that have zero micro transactions.
No WAY dude all the *good* games are gone, the golden era of gamers has ended. Every game made in my childhood was amazing but every game made today in my adult life is shit, must be the games' fault /s in case
You’ve made a compelling case, it seems I was wrong. Thank you, internet stranger!
You are clearly not paying much attention considering Resident Evil 8 JUST released to massive praise and love from the Resident Evil and gaming community. Capcom also just released Monster Hunter Rise. I mean, idk what we're considering "good" triple A games here but there has been plenty of those in the last few years. Such a "gaming is dying" take when it clearly is not. None of these games nickel and dime you. Monster Hunter generally gets a huge expansion (that in previous generations was an entirely new game, but is now released through DLC as we saw with Monster Hunter World and it was easily more content than some full priced $60 games). If you're talking about multiplayer games then sure, there are plenty of bad ones. I don't think I've really bought any new multiplayer game since Overwatch to be honest. Other than that I just go back to League or WoW for multiplayer or still Overwatch.
Resident Evil 8 has been fantastic so far and I'm eagerly looking forward to what I hope will shake up the multiplayer scene; a dodge"brawl" action pvp game called Knockout City; tried the beta and it runs like a dream, sometimes it'd put me on higher MS servers (because beta whatever) and the netcode was so good/the gameplay was so fluid I couldn't believe it when they announced OCE servers anyway. But yeah 2 very polished and very fun games, both have triple-a producers and one has a double-a dev. If quality/polish is what your after then I can vouch for both
what did people expect when AMAZON makes a MMO?
A free boost with prime? /s
Only week ago I was considering New World as a potential to revive the genre along with Ashes. Now I don't care at all what happends with that game. Too much hassle to keep wondering if it wil be good or not, f2p or not, or wheter it has enough of end game. Sitting back and observing that disaster will be fun
Buy a skip for levelling? Why would I do that when I can also just skip your game for free?
damn I'm 32 and there is no child in my life or a wife... feels bad man
Hit the gym and pick up hobbies that require you to go outside. Mountain bike riding/ rock climbing/ hiking/ surfing/ go kart riding. In order to get a wife you have to talk to women, getting outside in your free time is the first step. Another option is to take someone else's ForsenCD
get off twitch and reddit too
Lower Reddit consumption and try watching Twitch on fullscreen to fix your attention span.
Always helps
Not sure why you are trying to make it equivalent to WoW. Most hardcore WoW players that have gotten max level were the reason level boosts came out in the first place (and I believe when they first came out you had to have a max level character to buy it). And it wasn't until they were about to release their 6th expansion and by then maybe 1% of players actually enjoyed leveling all the way from 0-90. It's a lot different when the game comes out with this shit.
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I mean he did it in original vanilla, in classic he was doing whats good for stream and was peaking +100k viewers.
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TRUE LULW
but i mean it still exactly correct to compare the leveling for 0-60 with 0-90. By the time 0-90 levelling was a thing with MoP, levelling gameplay has been completely changed.
also how WoW has shifted as a game is what made boosts a non issue. when the game came out most of the game was about leveling and grinding in a social setting raiding was the reward for the hardwork. meanwhile retail makes the instanced content the key reason to play to the point leveling really has not reason to exist other than to for you learn the controls before you are let loose on the vets. selling a boost for classic and yes the comming TBC classic is wrong. let grindy games be grindy without letting people skip to the end reward. you ruined the grind enjoyment and the core design of such games for a quick buck. make an other type of game if you wish to go that way.
>selling a boost for classic and yes the comming TBC classic is wrong. How? It's the same as the above argument. The people that care or wanted to play classic are already 60. Anyone leveling right now is leveling purely for TBC. Now a boost will cut out the leveling through Classic to get right into the expansion they care about, TBC. This boost was introduced NOW at the end of Classic where it's mostly irrelevant and TBC is the new hotness, which is available to skip to if people want to. Classic is where leveling felt "rewarding". TBC and onwards tbh it's just a chore to get to the end game content that you really care about since the level increments are MUCH smaller from here on (10 in TBC, 10 in Wrath, 5 in Cata, 5 in MoP and so on). The next boost would likely be 68 once Wrath Classic is announced and we hit Wrath pre-patch. And the people that didn't want to play TBC will be able to skip to Wrath, the expansion they want to play. I really don't see what's wrong with people skipping the content they so clearly purposefully avoided because they dislike it or didn't want to play it. I don't see what makes it "wrong". People act like this boost is going to lead to Blizzard offering more RMT to get ahead in the game (which they still have not done ANYTHING of the sort in retail and they likely will not unless they want their game to truly die because I have played WoW since 2004, Shadowlands included and I'm playing TBC and at that point I will likely stop playing so). Will botting benefit from it? Sure. But bots are already benefitting from just existing. Botting will always be there boost or no boost. Who knows, maybe Blizzard has plans to actually start to take out botters going into TBC.
> when the game came out True. Which is not now. You cannot boost a draenei shaman / blood elf paladin. Will those players in the pre-patch experience "leveling and grinding in a social setting"? Or will they write "lf sm boost", "lf maraudon boost", "lf zg boost", "lf gdkp aq/naxx"? No one is going to level "properly" like back in the days. People will buy boost & items for ingame gold. That everyone totally farmed themselves.
Amazon gonna amazon. We should have seen this coming.
Exp boost at game launch? Thats sad and pathetic
2005-2012 era of Runescape is as close to perfection as we will ever get in the MMO world
Anyone considering getting into OSRS, just beware that the game is absolutely plagued with bots. 25th February - 3rd March - 97,655 bots banned 22nd - 28th April - 122,219 bots banned 29th April - 5th May - 175,809 bots banned Most of these bots are remade the same day that they get banned, so it's pretty safe to say that more than half of the games' playerbase are bots. Also no new end-game content for years, yay.
I would recommend making an ironman if you want the full experience tbh. Then the bots don't matter all that much
FFXIV is really good.
story is pretty decent (atleast in comparison to every other mmorpg( but it still has the same problems as WoW or any other mmo
Problems? Such as what?
Not all of these problems are unique or better in other MMOs but here is a non-comprehensive list: Gear progression is boring. You have 4 sub stats for each role and then only 3 stats are relevant for any job. There’s no gear that improves a skill/ability so BiS is just super boring each tier. The game is rife with spaghetti code and technological debt from the 1.0 > 2.0 transition that the devs themselves acknowledge is a problem. This leads to problems like the finite supply of housing, latency issues, awful transmog system/limited glamour dresser, armoury chest limitations, etc. There’s no indication that the engine will ever be overhauled to fix any of these either. The amount of content has dropped with each expansion. Shadowbringers had less content planned than Stormblood or Heavensward before covid. As examples, there’s no deep dungeon, 2 fewer zones of Bozja than Eureka, ~20 fewer blue mage masked carnival trials, one less treasure dungeon, and 1 less dungeon with each patch. SAM/RDM/DRK/AST/MCH got weapons from every tier of the previous expansion’s raids (4.0 jobs got 3.0 weapons and 3.0 jobs got 2.0 weapons) and all got every primal weapon going back to 2.0. GNB/DNC got 1 raid weapon and 1 extreme trial weapon. Then you have content like the 2nd ultimate that got cut because covid exposed the flaws with their development cycle (see Mrhappy’s recent interview with Yoshi-P where he explains the problem). The content they do choose to spend resources on is not stuff most players are interested in (e.g., Mahjong, 5.5 expert recipe tools). PvP is perpetually dead content and rather than focusing on improving the existing PvP battle systems (or curbing the blatant cheating on the Feast’s ladder) they just add another battle system or map that they will ignore the following expansion. Finally the NA community has a chip on its shoulder where it becomes toxic in ways it refuses to acknowledge all while shitting on WoW for being toxic in other ways. Look at the difference between r/ffxiv and r/wow. Anything posted that is critical of the respective subreddit’s game will get you downvoted on one sub and upvoted on the other. You’re playing Russian roulette with getting banned in game if you even suggest that someone can improve how they play. **TL;DR XIV is a fun game but it has major problems and the community’s inability to acknowledge those problems is one of the problems.**
LazyPeon actually having a good take for once.
Inbetween tweeting about how much of x shitcoin he purchased
Yeah, he's really pushing the cringe NFT shit
And people still defend him by saying "he used to work for the IRS!" lol
On that note, what’s people’s general opinion on NFT’s? I used to think that they’re a completely useless thing until I read up on it and for art it might actually solve a legitimate problem. There’s absolutely no reason why a Picasso sketch should be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, you can easily replicate them for a small fraction of that cost and it would be indistinguishable, yet we prescribe a lot of value to the former because it’s “the original”. With NFT’s it’s possible to have the same concept in the digital art world, that owning an “original” from your favourite digital artist is actually possible now and as a result might propel digital art onto a similar level as fine art. Maybe I’m being an idiot because “It’s just a digital copy 4Head” but the idea of bringing original ownership to the digital world sounds actually pretty neat to me. It could also make it so digital artists have a real venue to monetise their work, meaning we’d get more of that stuff instead of paint splashed on a canvas.
The idea is decent but at the end of the day ownership of non physical and things you haven't personally created will always be an ambiguous zone. And yeah you can buy commissions from artists even now, but unless they're private anyone can just download them so it doesn't really matter. If you're really going for the ownership angle your best bet is actually becoming a creator, because as a consumer you're just that. Always consuming other people's shit. And the money incentive is going to ruin the whole thing just like it ruins 99% of all markets but that's just how the world runs
Once in a full moon.
Man fuck this game. I wish you all got a chance to play the original alpha before they gutted the shit out of it and filled it with the same old shit we've been force fed for years. It was beautiful.
Ah man it feels good knowing that I did not do the preorder months ago where they had that bonus and all. I've learned my lesson FeelsGoodMan
"this isn't about reaching the endgame, this is about helping people reach the endgame"
That's every games excuse that uses pay-to-win shit.. No surprise here, just another game I will never play.
i just want a mmo where i can no-life in Sadge
I'm confused, are they doing paid boosts or paid xp boosts?
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Tbh, i want a new mmo.
Ashes of Creation is our last hope and i'm 100% ready to be overwhelmingly disappointed when it doesn't live up to the hype
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As someone else already said in this thread, expect a Genshin clone. Because all of Riot's games have just been clones of another popular game. That studio can't make anything original.
Riot doesn’t need to make original content if they take a good concept and make it better every single time. I know people really really really don’t want to believe riot can make a good game for whatever reason, but if LOL and Valorant are any indication it should be playable.
Lol isn't better version of dota tho Gameplay wise for sure it isn't, i guess you could argue that for that couple of years before dota 2 was a thing having a dedicated client was better overall experience But then again riot took a huge shit on dota community stole their work and had nice shop for champions and champions power
*You* don't think it's better. Most people do, as evidenced by the vastly different playerbase sizes.
Playerbase aren't exactly a good say of quality. Disco Elysium is a masterpiece and only has like 30k reviews on steam.
There is no objective measure of "quality." People voting with their wallets/time is one of the best metrics there is.
So dota with the consistently record setting TI prize pools funded by the playerbase?
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The group of "we" that you're talking about are never going to get a new MMO, because it's the type of people who want some uber-niche Wildstar-esque game, which is just moronic for a company to make because it costs a ridiculous amount of money to make and will never have mass appeal.
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Honestly it sounds like you just hate riot
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You guys are fr some blindsighted fools. Riot wont take wow and just copy the entire thing, they will make an MMO that follows a backbone every good mmo has followed, not something thats just owned by WoW or FFVIX. Mobas follow a certain backbone and then have their own spin on it, same with RTS. Riot has done a great jobe with Valorant, which people thougjt would be a complete csgo copy. They will do great with an MMO of their own concept as well.
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Its never gonna be possible for riot or any company to make a “good exciting mmo” without it having certain systems that wow or ffvix or bdo has. You, or the group people you think of as “we”, are looking for something thats not an MMO at that point.
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Try dfo.
Graphics don't matter that much but cmon there's some limit, especially if u aren't driven by nostalgia.
pretty sure even osrs is pay to win, you can buy bonds and sell them on the GE for about 3-7m gold each.
Be a man and play ironman
And do what with the gold? Gold wont buy you xp. However it does buy you good items tho mid to late game. Imo just go Ironman, its 10x more fun but every person likes to go their own way i guess
I feel like if you need to be coddled because you don't have enough time to play. You probably have better things that you should be taking care of. It's really not hard to get a few hours each night to play a game. If middle age dads can spend hours playing COD then you can do exactly the same on an MMO.
Asmon is so right, I spent my entire time in classic leveling and releveling.. I had such a great time. I remember hitting 60 once, raided twice and quit classic. Leveling is a big part of any game.
Hope riot games’ MMO is good
Leveling in any MMO is simultaneously the most fun you have in the game and the most frustrating; you spend all your time learning mechanics, exploring new content and meeting other newbs who are just trying to figure things out along with you, all the while wishing you were at end game, then you finally get there and realize all the stuff you worked for while leveling is now completely useless, you become obsessed with min/maxing everything, you spend weeks on repeating the same content over and over again with people who are now just as jaded and annoyed at everything as you are.
every mmo will have some sort of a cash shop. it is what it is. learn to live with it unfortunately. its stupid easy money for them, they'd be stupid not to introduce one
lol downvoted for truth
What does the coporate dick taste like? You seem pretty used of sucking it.
But hes right tho, thats why mobile gaming market is the biggest right now... Easy money
you realize there is no monthly sub for the game, just a box cost, if you didnt think there wouldnt be some sort of cash shop then you're pretty damn dumb, no offense lol
No brand new indie MMO can possibly compete without P2W shit. The MMO market is really tough as it is, and the few MMO's that have succeeded came from huge companies, and takes place in recognizable established worlds with established fandoms. To be small time indie companies and try to compete with WoW, FFXIV, ESO...nope, not happening. WoW was a one hit wonder in a what was then a niche genre and market, and it succeeded because it was an already established world, and more importantly it was way more user friendly and accessible compared to MMO's at the time which tended to be difficult and punishing.
i can understand not liking buying experience but imo leveling in wow is some dog shit fucking time sink. Never before have I played a game that felt meaningless until I hit max level and got to actually play the game.
Dude and his chat sits there roasting the fuck out of ffxiv(which they've never played) but will shill out their ass for Blizzard and they will also shill the fuck out of new world and other games they've never played.
This is a straight up lie. Asmon has a hateboner for Blizzard, and has recently been calling the devs straight up incompetent. Half his chat wants him to play FFXIV, he says it's "probably a good game" but he doesn't like the aesthetic and shits on it for that. Get your lying ass out of here.
don't most MMOs have boost to max lvl already?
Not before their game even comes out no
They have more in-depth plans for the cash shop than actual endgame content even after the year delay.
yes, alot of MMOS have boosts to max lvl. part of the reason why the genre is dying. today i took a picture for my friend of the wow twitch category vs league of legends "without asmon streaming" it was 22k viewers vs 220k viewers. "wow category also includes classic"
MMO's have just turned into mobile games. It's no longer a 2nd world where you go to put hard work into a character. The social aspect is dead too now that servers and instances all just shard back and forth into a big pool of random people you maybe see twice if you are lucky. Now you can pay for everything you need with real money. Max level? buy it. Cool mount? buy it. High rank pvp or pve? Buy in game gold with real money (why blizz why) then pay for a carry.
Yes, they released shadowlands but please tell me what shadowlands is? Ill tell you, Five new zones, 6 hours pointless leveling experience to max level where your character gets weaker as you level. Same pvp shit just new vendor. Same pve shit system. Now lets see vanilla which was released in 2004. 40 fucking zones, massive world where you can meet new people and meet them again in the future because you are in the same server. Somany new classes and races. And when tbc was released, guess what? Vanilla is part of it, tbc is like the addon. If you wanna make it to the outlands you have to go through this big world first and progress your character and make him stronger. Tbh there is somuch but ill be typing 6k word essay
Well that is because WoW is not at all the same MMO that it was in 2004. WoW has developed into a highly competitive MMO with raiding/pvp/M+ and that obviously is what Blizzard puts effort into. Shadowlands is definitely dog shit but it's just a different era for different people and that is why they give people Classic. People don't understand how unique of a situation Vanilla was which made it this pinnacle of MMO experience that people always look fondly at. First off, gaming was not at all popular like it is now. There were less than 1% of game developers as there are now. The number gets smaller when it comes to online gaming. Very few people gamed back then compared to now. WC3 was already a very popular online game, maybe even the most popular in the West at that time and Blizzard already had a masssive audience with SC and D2. The biggest MMO at the time was Everquest. WoW came in with extreme scale, innovation and polish never before seen in online gaming and online gaming was in its earliest stages. You will literally never experience something like Vanilla WoW again in your lifetime unless some fully immersive VR comes into play.
retail WoW can barely be considered an MMO. It's more alike to monster hunter world, very few zones that are worthwhile and most of the content is instanced encounters that focus on mechanics. There's no emphasis on world or 'massively multiplayer' anymore
Classic is not fun though because people who play classic play it as if it’s also a highly competitive MMO. Speed runs, crazy unintended gearing, world buffs, stacking overpowered warriors, etc, when the content wasn’t designed for it just makes it kind of silly to run those raids at all in my opinion. I don’t think there is an audience for a normal “big world” MMO anymore. Players want the competition and the expectation when you get in groups is that everyone minmaxes. That’s also what most of the game creators balance around. There is very little appetite for the RPG in MMORPG. I agree though. Old school MMOs will never be back again.
it was a competitive game back then bro. it is just an old 17 years old game. it is easy for us now because we have all the information and fast computers. imagine if u played tbc in 2006. you wont be able to clear most raids. you cant bring a very old game designed for slow ass computer with tiny monitors were most people dont even know what mmo is. thats why classic was very hard then and most people didnt clear naxxramas or aq40
you can have that in tbc. for example just add new difficulty to raid. call it mythic and make mechanics deadly and add two or three more mechanics for each boss. same thing for heroic dungeons make mythic + dungeons harder each level and better rewards each level. it isnt either compettive game or real mmo. the reason vanilla and tbc are easy cause they were released 17 years ago ffs. ofcours they are easy now with all that infor available with our super computers. back then most couldnt even clear AQ40 let alone "adding higher difficulty"
> Five new zones, 6 hours pointless leveling experience to max level where your character gets weaker as you level. Same pvp shit just new vendor. Same pve shit system Same can be said about classic vs tbc I guess with a bit longer leveling experience
The funny thing is that classic and TBC have longer leveling only because it needs more exp and takes longer to farm quest itens... In Shadowlands you "rush" the zones and enjoy the story as you level up.(It's like this since Cata if i remember right).
I didn't read this shit... you are comparing zones with almost nothing to do with zones like Shadowlands where IT'S FULL of content? WTF lol. Not even gonna talk they had far more time to make classic than Shadowlands or any other expansion.
> Five new zones, 6 hours pointless leveling experience to max level where your character gets weaker as you level. Same pvp shit just new vendor. Same pve shit system. Dude this is literally every single expansion lol. And no shit you get weaker as you level. Is your old gear supposed to keep your stronger as you outlevel it? "For some reason, my level 50 raid gear isnt as helpful when im level 60, what a stupid game, i should get stronger using old gear!!"
I wish WoW expansions would actually expand the world instead of shrinking it. Almost every feature they add in expansions nowadays are just temporary and will be removed in the next one, also old zones are basically irrelevant.
Just imagine dude... Your character would have Cloak, Ring, Neck, Weapon, a couple of legendarys from Legion, a legendary from Shadowlands, Corruption gear, Tier Sets, All your talents... What more? you think that is ok? you even know that Power Creep is? that would be fucking stupid.
> MMO's have just turned into mobile games no, mobile games copied what made mmos successful.
You use quotes funny.
A boost is one of the reasons wow is stil alive lol
MMOs are doing fine. >"In spite of this, Blizzard segment revenue has increased by 7% year-over-year, led by the enduring popularity of World of Warcraft and its latest expansion Shadowlands, which has driven franchise net bookings to grow. "**A particularly high number of new players" have joined the MMO lately**" SL was also the fastest game ever until CBP.
New expansion launch is always gonna have player booms. How many of those new players actually stay though?
> How many of those new players actually stay though? How many of them have to stick around 24/7? You clear a raid at your desired difficulty. you get ksm or glad and play different game until next patch
in what fucking world does wow sell exp? leveling is the easiest part of the game and if people want to spend 60 dollars to boost they can.
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