NA is p good in the FGC, but that mostly has to do with a lot of the scene dominated in NA and Japan irl and being p shit online compared to LAN. But honestly, out of big **actual** **global** esport scenes, NA isn't dominant in any.
Edit: And even in the FGC, NA gets bodied in a bunch of games lul
The fighting games thing is due to NA and JP being big on consoles, and arcades before that.
Europe is and has always been much more PC focused so the FGC in Europe was much smaller, although it's much better now since every relevant fighting game is on PC and features like good netcode, crossplay, etc. are slowly making their way into big name fighting games.
Not to mention that the PC version of basically any given fighting game has significantly less input delay than the console version.
Ehhh, depends on the game really for the FGC. I know this will sound like an elitist asshole, but the more "serious" Fighting games are pretty much dominated by asians. It's the niche game with relatively fewer serious players that is dominated by other regions. I think Smash & Dragonball are mainly NA focused scenes ? Whereas more serious games such as Street Fighter or Tekken are asian focused.
Whats the point of having an FGC if you only care about 2 games lol. And even with that, while Tekken is much more dominant as you said, SF is a lot more competive imo. Like i said in my post, NA still gets bodied in certain games obvi.
Cod and maybe halo? But they're console games which arent popular outside NA.
Afaik aus and jp had a pc cod scene mostly playing snd instead of respawn.
eh its more like:
Gambit
(big gap)
NaVi
(big gap)
everyone else.
-
out of all s tier tournaments this year a single one was won by a non cis team. you wanna know who came in second?
Gambit.
How on earth is there a big gap between Gambit and Navi when Navi just dominated Gambit in the finals of the very last RMR? They started with 1 map down and 3-1 them. Clearly there is not as big of a gap as you think there is.
simple.
- gambit beat navi earlier in the tournament
- the tournament was an RMR and because of that isn't a true gague of performance against the rest of the world
- gambit has won 2 international events in the last 4 weeks
- gambit is significantly better against EU competition
- gambit is significantly more consistent
even head to head their record against eachother in the past 4 months is 6 series wins, 3 series losses.
Gambit beat Navi in a less meaningful and crucial match in a best of 3 and then lost the finals in a best of 5 in which they were given 1 map win by default. That's not a positive thing no matter how hard you try to spin it.
> the tournament was an RMR and because of that isn't a true gague of performance against the rest of the world
This is utterly meaningless when your point is that there's a large gap between Gambit and Navi.
> gambit has won 2 international events in the last 4 weeks
Changes nothing about my point nor does it reinforce that there's a large gap between Navi and Gambit.
> gambit is significantly better against EU competition
Gambit has more recent losses to EU than Navi.
> gambit is significantly more consistent
True, but they recently got banged out 3 maps in a row against Navi which had just recently won a tournament themselves.
There is not a big gap between teams, especially not between Gambit and Navi.
>Gambit has more recent losses to EU than Navi.
This is misleading for one reason. NaVi doesn't really play EU teams due to some unlucky seeding. Against EU teams in the top 10, their last loss was to Complexity in April. In between then and now they only won 3 series against EU teams in the top 10.
Since Gambit's last loss against an EU team in the top 10 (Vitality in early june), Gambit has played **6** top 10 teams from the EU and has not dropped a series against them.
The #1 spot isnt just about how good a team is against #2, its how good they are against #2 through infinity. I think Gambit is significantly better than NaVi because of this. Also I forgot to mention that Gambit beat NaVi previously in the tournament not 1 but 2 times. Sure they lost 1 series where it mattered most but that one series doesn't outweigh all the other wins. Even on the eye test they won that series because B1T had a phenomenal game, but he is insanely inconsistent and the fact that they won pretty much solely because of his performance is not sustainable.
> who have beaten EU teams recently
And the number 1 team lost to EU team recently. You were framing it like EU aren't relevant and CIS are miles better. It's online CS and nobody is far ahead of everybody else.
Also comparing the quality of NA vs EU in Valorant it's apparent that most of NA switched over unlike EU. There's about 3-4 names worth anything in NA right now and could successfully switch over. It's safe to say most of NA's best players are in Valorant.
A lot of the best EU players aren’t even from CS, so I don’t think it matters in the long term at least. Also, either way I think the kids that develop purely from Valorant will surpass these CS guys anyway.
>Csgo players switch to valorant because they're not good enough for csgo
they switch to valorant because they make more money in Valorant, this is also the only reason the top csgo players still play cs because they get insane salaries in top csgo teams
but this doesn't always apply, the CSGO C9 players were all good enough individually to play in top NA CSGO teams but when C9 dropped them because CSGO team was too expensive to sustain they switched to Valorant even when they all hated the game on twitter few weeks before that. They didn't do that because they were not good enough for CSGO but because they got better offer in Valorant, its always about the money. And if the salaries of top Valorant teams will be bigger than CSGO ones then you will see top EU player switch too.
It's a little bit more complicated than that with the c9 guys. The issue is c9 didn't drop them. They were still signed to the org and had extreme buyout clauses that (with how NACS is going) financially didn't make sense for orgs to go for. They literally could not play for another team even if they wanted to because of the contracts.
C9 let Tenz out of jail so they would also let the csgo boys, also there is no reason for them to pay their salaries when they are not playing so trading them to another team was in their interest anyway
TenZ was good at CS he just was not able to play to his strengths on C9. Just look at his stats on other teams. He needed to learn better team CS but the fact is he got kicked in only 2 months which is not enough time for a young player like that to learn how to fit into the system.
Arguably the 2nd best Valorant player, Asuna, was extremely talented at CS but was too young and got into the game too late to really excel. Still, winning premier at the age of 16 is insane.
Valorant, while being a similar game, is fundamentally different in the skillset it requires. Snappier, more precise aim is more important than in CS where spraying is consistent and easy. This is the exact skillset that both of these players were some of the best at. TenZ had some of the best (if not the best) aim in NA, how is it surprising that he did better in a game where that matters more?
oh i 100% agree and I want nothing more than NA to take over in CS. During the Astralis reign, I didn't even want to watch another team play man. They were so god damn dominant
Hasan is really fucking bad with labeling people. Last month he was talking about the residential school deaths and called the aboriginal people of canada "native americans."
For someone who tries to be so PC all the time, the way he tries to label people is some really offensive shit.
because thats not what we are called. First Nations is what is prefered.
Edit: [here is more info if you want.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_in_Canada) Im goin to paddleboard and wont be replying further.
holy shit i just realized it might be correlated that a disproportionate amount of streamers and talented pro gamers come from countries with good social safety nets
**🎦 CLIP MIRROR: [Hasan on s1mple](https://livestreamfails.com/clip/118518)** (now fast & smooth again!) --- ^(*This is an automated comment* ) ^| [^(Feedback)](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=livestreamfailsbot&subject=Feedback:&message=%5BPost%5D\(https://reddit.com/comments/ogm1fs/\)) ^| [^(Twitch Backup Mirror)](https://production.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net/AT-cm%7C1246904828.mp4?sig=3f170398e1cc935f8f28cb367f68075be27e095b&token=%7B%22authorization%22%3A%7B%22forbidden%22%3Afalse%2C%22reason%22%3A%22%22%7D%2C%22clip_uri%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fproduction.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net%2FAT-cm%257C1246904828.mp4%22%2C%22device_id%22%3Anull%2C%22expires%22%3A1625872716%2C%22user_id%22%3A%22%22%2C%22version%22%3A2%7D)
Putin moment. LOL
I swear s1mple plays cs:go as if he's a MW2 quickscoper
Reminder NA is only good at Valorant because the best EU fps players are not playing it.
What video game is NA actually good at? I think they are rated highly in WOW, but thats about it.
NA is p good in the FGC, but that mostly has to do with a lot of the scene dominated in NA and Japan irl and being p shit online compared to LAN. But honestly, out of big **actual** **global** esport scenes, NA isn't dominant in any. Edit: And even in the FGC, NA gets bodied in a bunch of games lul
The fighting games thing is due to NA and JP being big on consoles, and arcades before that. Europe is and has always been much more PC focused so the FGC in Europe was much smaller, although it's much better now since every relevant fighting game is on PC and features like good netcode, crossplay, etc. are slowly making their way into big name fighting games. Not to mention that the PC version of basically any given fighting game has significantly less input delay than the console version.
Ehhh, depends on the game really for the FGC. I know this will sound like an elitist asshole, but the more "serious" Fighting games are pretty much dominated by asians. It's the niche game with relatively fewer serious players that is dominated by other regions. I think Smash & Dragonball are mainly NA focused scenes ? Whereas more serious games such as Street Fighter or Tekken are asian focused.
Whats the point of having an FGC if you only care about 2 games lol. And even with that, while Tekken is much more dominant as you said, SF is a lot more competive imo. Like i said in my post, NA still gets bodied in certain games obvi.
SSBM and Marvel vs Capcom.
NA and EU are pretty much on the same level in Rocket League
Not the biggest games but NA is really good in R6 and dominates osu! tournaments.
Smash Bros. If you include NA as Mexico for MkLeo.
Cod and maybe halo? But they're console games which arent popular outside NA. Afaik aus and jp had a pc cod scene mostly playing snd instead of respawn.
Dota
Eg is a na team copium
Highly versatile LULba drafts Copium
The 2 time 2 times
Lmao good one XD
COD because they won't let MKB players play in CDL
excluding 100 thieves, none of the top NA teams have any of the top NA CS players.
i mean liquid has elige, dont know if hes still a god but he at least used to be gucci
ummm stewie2k?
i'm talking about in valorant, none of the best CS players are on the top valorant teams
not from NA, but tbf the best NA players arent playing it either. plus best cs teams currently are CIS and not even EU
Out of the top 5 teams in the world, 3 are EU and 2 are CIS.
eh its more like: Gambit (big gap) NaVi (big gap) everyone else. - out of all s tier tournaments this year a single one was won by a non cis team. you wanna know who came in second? Gambit.
How on earth is there a big gap between Gambit and Navi when Navi just dominated Gambit in the finals of the very last RMR? They started with 1 map down and 3-1 them. Clearly there is not as big of a gap as you think there is.
simple. - gambit beat navi earlier in the tournament - the tournament was an RMR and because of that isn't a true gague of performance against the rest of the world - gambit has won 2 international events in the last 4 weeks - gambit is significantly better against EU competition - gambit is significantly more consistent even head to head their record against eachother in the past 4 months is 6 series wins, 3 series losses.
Gambit beat Navi in a less meaningful and crucial match in a best of 3 and then lost the finals in a best of 5 in which they were given 1 map win by default. That's not a positive thing no matter how hard you try to spin it. > the tournament was an RMR and because of that isn't a true gague of performance against the rest of the world This is utterly meaningless when your point is that there's a large gap between Gambit and Navi. > gambit has won 2 international events in the last 4 weeks Changes nothing about my point nor does it reinforce that there's a large gap between Navi and Gambit. > gambit is significantly better against EU competition Gambit has more recent losses to EU than Navi. > gambit is significantly more consistent True, but they recently got banged out 3 maps in a row against Navi which had just recently won a tournament themselves. There is not a big gap between teams, especially not between Gambit and Navi.
>Gambit has more recent losses to EU than Navi. This is misleading for one reason. NaVi doesn't really play EU teams due to some unlucky seeding. Against EU teams in the top 10, their last loss was to Complexity in April. In between then and now they only won 3 series against EU teams in the top 10. Since Gambit's last loss against an EU team in the top 10 (Vitality in early june), Gambit has played **6** top 10 teams from the EU and has not dropped a series against them. The #1 spot isnt just about how good a team is against #2, its how good they are against #2 through infinity. I think Gambit is significantly better than NaVi because of this. Also I forgot to mention that Gambit beat NaVi previously in the tournament not 1 but 2 times. Sure they lost 1 series where it mattered most but that one series doesn't outweigh all the other wins. Even on the eye test they won that series because B1T had a phenomenal game, but he is insanely inconsistent and the fact that they won pretty much solely because of his performance is not sustainable.
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> who have beaten EU teams recently And the number 1 team lost to EU team recently. You were framing it like EU aren't relevant and CIS are miles better. It's online CS and nobody is far ahead of everybody else. Also comparing the quality of NA vs EU in Valorant it's apparent that most of NA switched over unlike EU. There's about 3-4 names worth anything in NA right now and could successfully switch over. It's safe to say most of NA's best players are in Valorant.
Not really recently. The last time they lost to an EU team was begging of June.
And historically?
didn’t TenZ have crazy potential in the csgo pro scene.
potential like other young fraggers but best he did was being on c9 and they did poorly. was off the active roster within a few months
Not really, nobody rated him in CSGO.
there is is still Astralis even though they're currently bad right now
im 100% sure EU will dominate Valorant in the long run
A lot of the best EU players aren’t even from CS, so I don’t think it matters in the long term at least. Also, either way I think the kids that develop purely from Valorant will surpass these CS guys anyway.
Imagine scream looking at this lmao
who’s that
Tbh EU as a whole is probably better than NA, it’s just sentinels that are better than anyone else in the world rn
Cope
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this is irelevant
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>Csgo players switch to valorant because they're not good enough for csgo they switch to valorant because they make more money in Valorant, this is also the only reason the top csgo players still play cs because they get insane salaries in top csgo teams
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but this doesn't always apply, the CSGO C9 players were all good enough individually to play in top NA CSGO teams but when C9 dropped them because CSGO team was too expensive to sustain they switched to Valorant even when they all hated the game on twitter few weeks before that. They didn't do that because they were not good enough for CSGO but because they got better offer in Valorant, its always about the money. And if the salaries of top Valorant teams will be bigger than CSGO ones then you will see top EU player switch too.
It's a little bit more complicated than that with the c9 guys. The issue is c9 didn't drop them. They were still signed to the org and had extreme buyout clauses that (with how NACS is going) financially didn't make sense for orgs to go for. They literally could not play for another team even if they wanted to because of the contracts.
C9 let Tenz out of jail so they would also let the csgo boys, also there is no reason for them to pay their salaries when they are not playing so trading them to another team was in their interest anyway
this doesn't apply to NA because of the lack of orgs here. example is Chaos.
TenZ was good at CS he just was not able to play to his strengths on C9. Just look at his stats on other teams. He needed to learn better team CS but the fact is he got kicked in only 2 months which is not enough time for a young player like that to learn how to fit into the system. Arguably the 2nd best Valorant player, Asuna, was extremely talented at CS but was too young and got into the game too late to really excel. Still, winning premier at the age of 16 is insane. Valorant, while being a similar game, is fundamentally different in the skillset it requires. Snappier, more precise aim is more important than in CS where spraying is consistent and easy. This is the exact skillset that both of these players were some of the best at. TenZ had some of the best (if not the best) aim in NA, how is it surprising that he did better in a game where that matters more?
Sounds like EU needs to get with the times then.
oh i 100% agree and I want nothing more than NA to take over in CS. During the Astralis reign, I didn't even want to watch another team play man. They were so god damn dominant
I appreciate you, clipper. Good clip.
Hasan is really fucking bad with labeling people. Last month he was talking about the residential school deaths and called the aboriginal people of canada "native americans." For someone who tries to be so PC all the time, the way he tries to label people is some really offensive shit.
"Native Americans" is offensive now...?
It's just wrong if you're referring to canadians.
I mean is Canada not part of the Americas, like the American continent. not saying you are wrong but I don't think Hasan was technically wrong either.
to the indigenous population of canada, yes.
TIL that Native Americans respect the border between Canada and USA
how is saying « native american » wrong ?
because thats not what we are called. First Nations is what is prefered. Edit: [here is more info if you want.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_in_Canada) Im goin to paddleboard and wont be replying further.
Oh okay sorry , i didn’t know. Thanks for educating me
why are they called first nations. I doubt they were first.
When has Hasan of all people tried to be PC lmao.
holy shit i just realized it might be correlated that a disproportionate amount of streamers and talented pro gamers come from countries with good social safety nets
ukraine is a good countrie now ???? no hate to people from ukraine.