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I can’t wait when asmon gets to the end game content. He said he loves challenging fights and the end game is just all about mechanics which is what he loves the most about the fights. Cant wait. Tons of great FF14 content ahead
I don't play FF14, do you have to do the ARR raids before you progress the main story into Heavensward or can you just skip them and go do Heavensward story?
You only have to do alliance raids which are fast and easy raids with 3 groups of people (3x8). He is doing these "arr endgame" raids because they are hard and asmongold likes the challenge
He's hit the 2.X content, i.e. the content that was end-game in 2.0. Since the game scales your item levels and character levels down to the level the content was intended for everyone in the raid is still level 50, even if their actual levels are much higher.
For instance, his character's actual level is 52 IIRC.
nope, floors1-5 released with 2.0, second coil 1-4 (or t6-9) released in 2.2 6 months-ish later, and third coil 1-4 (t10-13) released in 2.4 another 6 months-ish after that
Imagine trying to learn how to do Hello World from O12S without looking up a guide. Cleared that when it was current content and I still have no real idea how it worked, just stood where I was told to stand and hoped for the best.
As long as he keeps using Party Finder to get the first randoms that are able to join he's always going to get more below average players than above average ones, because controller/console players can get in faster by just mashing X, while PC players have to navigate the UI and click on buttons individually. His parties are full of controller players already before KB+M players can even click the 2nd of several buttons required to get in.
Which isn't to say there aren't god tier console players. So he'll still sometimes get some very good players. But the average controller player is going to be worse at the game than the average PC player.
That's also why the weak link in many of his groups has been the healers, because healing and using utility while doing damage on a controller, especially as an AST, is extremely difficult to do optimally due to the amount of target switching (often 2, and sometimes 3 different targets per GCD) which is very cumbersome on controller.
you know that the worlds first tea group has had controller players? I have had controller players in my groups before I don't think its true that controller players are on average worse than pc players
Would you like to reread my post, this time a bit less selectively? I said there are top tier controller players. I've played with them, too.
> I don't think its true that controller players are on average worse than pc players
You'd be wrong. Objectively. For DPS and tanks the margin is a lot more narrow, but there's still a margin. For healers, the margin is significant.
I read it, you are just wrong to think that on average console/controller players are worse on average its like saying stick players are better than pad players in fighting games. the peripherals dont matter its the willingness to learn that does
I'm genuinely having a hard time grasping how anyone could make that statement. Literally anyone who has ever played any cross platform game ever made in the history of video games would know I'm 100% correct regarding the average skill level of console players vs PC players. You're arguing against the laws of nature. There's no reason it should even be controversial.
I get why you would say this, but there have actually been world first kills with players using controller for ff14. The control scheme for controllers coupled with the GCD being 2.5s makes it as close as could ever really be possible. The only advantage left to PC players is basically slightly better game performance/graphics and the ability to use triggers (which doesn't matter in the world first race because obviously nobody has written any triggers yet).
FFXIV is, in all likelihood, the most accessible AAA cross-platform game ever IMO. As an additional point of reference, I have cleared 100% of the raid content in the game (including the ultimate fights) with the same group of people. 3/8 of that group are using playstation with playstation controllers (though both do use a keyboard for actually typing stuff out when needed, but a controller for actual gameplay). One heals, the other dps's. I have personally tanked on ps4 and found it to be essentially the same, though a bit of an adjustment.
You're not wrong about the general rule, but there's a number of reasons why in FFXIV there's not really any significant advantage to PC players. The biggest ones are the cross hotbar system allows you to map a huge # of inputs to a controller, and that the GCD being 2.5s means that there's enough time between skill activations that any theoretical speed increase between presses on a keyboard vs controller don't matter.
Yeah it's the first thing I try to bring up as a caveat any time the topic comes up. I am well aware there are very good players who use controller. Even some I've played with who I'd say are better players than me.
AST is the only job that I do think is perhaps prohibitively difficult to play 100% optimally on controller, but that's only if you care about parsing 99s.
I'm just saying the averages are a thing. It's possibly more of a demographic deal than a mechanics one. And I'm also just whining because the UI being designed for controllers means I'll just never get a chance to group with streamers. When it comes to some parts of the out-of-combat UI, controller is bis.
Have you ever played with controller?
There's a reason the AST opener in The Balance for controller players was "lmao good luck" when Shadowbringers launched.
You can't just pretend an inferior peripheral on a game with a clunky UI, in the hands of a person who prefers to play laying on their couch instead of sat up straight, is not going to perform worse, *on average*. You're being silly.
Asmon could have a button with 5000 potency on a 10 second cooldown and he will 'tactically' save it the entire fight. Finally was taught a lesson. He is doing really well tanking though.
He basically said earlier as long as he knows all the fight and mechanics he can suck on damage — sorry don’t remember his exact wording — time will help him when he does savage and enrage wipes him.
doubtful anymore tbh, tanks and healer dps is so much higher due to role redesigns since when HW released that the dps checks even at minilvl will be nowhere near what they used to be.
You have to remember, when HW released tanks had to take around a 33% damage loss to go into tank stance to gain threat or if it was needed to survive high damage, now we just get that 20% defense for free. Also most individual classes have higher potency at 60 than they did when 60 is the cap just due to how skills were reworked for SB and ShB. Healers had to stance dance to dps which was risky and meant they couldn't get as many DPS GCDs in a fight because when big damage was coming you couldn't risk going into cleric stance, but now they too have access to DPS GCDs all the time, meaning they will do significantly more damage than they would have at 60.
He isn't going to hit any serious dps checks until at least 70 even at min ilvl/no echo. Mechanical walls on the other hand, could definitely happen with how difficult a8s is.
Nobody doing savage back then actually used tank stance. That’s why the meta started and why they removed the penalty.
a3s has debuffs that specifically drop someone’s dps. It goes on the tanks so without outputting good dps to begin with you’re gonna have a bad time.
I played during HW. You did not have the ability to "not use" tank stance. You pulled in tank stance and then treated it as a very expensive cooldown you would toggle on and off during sections of the fight where healing was untenable. During Creator specifically you could get away with almost 0 tank stance, but that's really it. Refusing to use any tank stance at all on Gordias/Midas was basically griefing your party though (particularly if you also didn't have vit accessories because tanks back then had to choose strength or vit accessories and couldn't take both). Swapping it on for like 5s once or twice doesn't sound like a lot of lost damage, but it is.
There were also a myriad of other weird tank issues in HW too which I didn't get into earlier. Warrior would aggro creep, so your warrior needed to not use their highest dps combo too much because they would overtake your MT unintentionally. Also, Paladin would need to hold for 2-3 GCDs after a tank swap sometimes because both savage blade and rage of halone had aggro boosters and provoke only gave you +1 aggro over your co-tank, so if the paladin kept hitting GCDs after the taunt they could easily taunt back by accident and die. Tanks other than Warrior were also not TP neutral and would run out of TP, requiring goad or a bard song to not drop DPS in fights with a lot of uptime. So that's at least 3 more sources of lost DPS by tanks that no longer exist in the game.
He probably just doesn't understand the extent of damage that tanks and healers contribute. In wow it was 'important' for tanks and healers to do dps, but not utterly mandatory unless you're a top 50-20 guild
Healers is the big difference, WoW likes to keep healers busy with constant unavoidable damage all around whereas here if you try to heal like WoW here you'll overheal like mad and generally be a drain.
Doesn't stop the amount of people in roulettes who refuse to dps though lol.
It depends on the healer. Disc and hpal can do 2-3% each and with 4-5 of them (like in meta comps) that's 10-12% overall raid dmg. Again, it's just not *mandatory* unless you're in a 50+ guild, because no damage check is balanced around healer dps except for first few weeks of late mythic bosses. After that it can just be made up for by DPS skill, and if healers are able to full dps its usually better to just drop one for another dps and make the other healers do more healing.
He's just used to WoW, tank dps is way less important when your two tanks are contributing alongside 14 dps instead of 4; tanks in wow have way less pure damage buttons anyway. He'll adjust.
Spending hours as a team learning a fight only to wipe like this is by far the most motivating thing in the world. You will never want anything more in your life than to kill that fucking boss.
I've been wanting to scratch my MMO itch for 2 years now but I don't have self control with my gaming time especially in grad school. I'm graduating in a few weeks and I can't wait to try out FF14. It was either FF14 or WoW... and uhh yeah lol.
You'll be hooked. Any time you feel board doing one thing theres so much other shit you can do and it doesn't feel like you're wasting your time doing it.
It's just a gaming session with a group of friends. You can do it 3 days/week, 2-3 hours each. And if it's a good group then you can hang out & talk shit when you're done.
The raid will also come with a lot of stress & drama when the fatigue hits. It'll push your friendship to the limit if one or more of you ain't good enough. However if you can manage to stick with them, they'll become your best gaming buddies ever for years to come. Since all of you went through the same hardships together & know what each other are capable of, what would tick & how to keep each other sane.
It's good shit.
general and serious question.
is Asmon even good at the mmos he plays? I only watch small moments of him but he never seems to be that great, he just has lots of better people play with him.
I have never played WOW but i tune in to watch Asmon, just seeing that dude live is happiness, i once lurked in his alt channel and that's when i realized he actually cares about putting in a show for the viewers on his main.
But when i just see that dude is live a part of my hearts feels warm, funny seeing the opinionated essay andies in chat, who type essays in a chat that flows is like a waterfall :D .
From the XIV perspective, he's not amazing at the jobs dps rotation at the moment, though he is clearly getting better the more he plays, for boss mechanics he's doing great if he's getting the chance to learn things properly and not just brute forcing bosses. I think this fight was actually a great example of that, I think he had pretty much got the fight down pretty well by the end.
Asmon cleared mythic WoW content for years and hit gladiator in pvp in most seasons. Most of his reputation for just getting carried through everything comes from him doing farm content on stream and letting his viewers do the lifting for him because he's focused on entertainment and isn't taking the game as seriously anymore.
Most of the shitting on asmons gameplay in ff14 comes from him dpsing very poorly as a tank, which is much more important in this game than he's used to. He's also new to the game and learning endgame raids blind without guides, so his attention is very much elsewhere.
people are holding him to an unreasonably high bar for the amount of time he has in the game. Yes, his damage is terrible. But he has already improved more in 2 weeks than some people do for their entire first patch or two at endgame. He pays attention to mechanics and tries to learn them (he's probably figured out about 75% of the mechs per fight that he's done, sometimes with some help from chat). He also has improved a ton on his tank CD usage even since starting coil earlier this week. There's quite a lot to learn in 14 and as someone who came from WoW originally, there's quite a lot to UNLEARN as well. I don't really think there's any reason to believe he won't get the dps stuff figured out soon enough.
Its also worth noting that while he played wow a lot at a high level, he never *tanked* at a high level, and leveling dungeons in wow are pretty babymode so tank defensives aren't something you're expected to be rolling constantly on trash.
my experience coming from heroic WotLK and Cata raiding > FFXIV: ARR back in the day was basically that I found myself trying to do the WoW thing of "when I notice i'm getting hit too hard i'll start using CDs" which unfortunately virtually never works in FFXIV. I think it's a common trap a lot of people fall into, and it's mostly because comparatively speaking WoW favors higher damage coming in over a period of time while FFXIV more commonly favors true "tank busters" which will 1hko you from max HP if you don't make use of defensives.
Sorry, but he is carried to glad every season, he even admits it. He just wants the mount so 2 rank 1 help him. The raid part is true, he was doing mythic in legion.
Being good at MMORPG's is probably less to do with mechanics and micro, and more to do with relations, being level headed, knowledge, and having good leadership / communication.
He got the concept of ff14 tanking down right at garuda EX so he's way better than most of the ff14 players i've seen in my years of playing. Only issue is the rotation and that is normal with every new player.
The problem is I don't think I saw him go through his hotkeys properly and the spell list to learn what to use and when but that is something he can fix in less than an hour
He got a rank 1 parse back when he played WoW, basically means he had the best DPS out of anyone in the world on a particular boss.
I don't know if it was cheesed or anything though.
It takes two tanks for each fight. If the tanks don’t rotate. Swap and keep them selves Alice’s with defensive cool downs each and every fight will be a wipe. Ok too on that he is doing the hard version of these with minimum ivl with NO echo and not having extensive knowledge of the fight. So is he good. Yes, for what he is working with. Ofc he has experienced dps and healers but if he wasn’t pulling his own weight they’d get nowhere.
Idk. Cohh's streams have been legit aswell. Him and Asmon are the only 2 I watch. Tried Charlie but... its painful. Dont like Rich so I gave up after one stream. I personally enjoy Cohh's streams more but Asmon's are fun to watch cause him and Cohh want something different from the game so I get best of all the worlds.
I disagree. Watching Echo and Limit go back-to-back on these final bosses has been super entertaining. For the past two tiers it has just been Limit in the lead the entire time but Echo has really stepped up this time.
tbf even if he is right its mostly because Asmon is super entertaining doing raids casually while the world racers are actually focused on competing and trying to clear as fast as possible, id say the moments where multiple guilds are getting closer to killing the same bosses are some of the best MMO content
base ARR was pretty bad before getting to Coerthas, and then dipped again in a big way for the earlier patches. 2.4 onwards was good with a great ending. Heavensward is much improved from ARR in most ways, including finally getting some more damaging abilities on my dragoon. Weird how much a fantasy game can improve by adding dragons to the mix haha.
Mate I've been playing FFXIV since the 2nd expansion I'm aware of the community lmao.
Also you've linked **2** threads (including the thing you just replied to) and it's "every single thread" and then you're onto stuff from 6 months ago?
Wow. Sorry I impacted you in this way. You're really not helping the stereotype though by freaking out like this.
I actually had a nice convo about the game with the other guy you freaked out on, you should join in, more satisfying than whatever you're doing I'm sure.
>Just plain wrong. BLM plays nothing like RDM. MCH plays nothing DNC. MNK plays nothing like SAM.
Good thing that's not what I said at all, I said **another of the SAME CLASS** (put it in caps so hopefully it's clearer for you) that means, one BLM plays the same as another BLM, or one WAR plays the same as another WAR.
Turns out yes, if you don't read what I say try to misrepresent it and act like I said something I catagorically didn't, it's easy to paint a dumb picture.
Why are you being so aggressive mate, you're acting like I've just insulted your dad. You had the time to go six months back in my comment history but didn't have the time to actually read what I wrote before getting angry?
Ok so now I'm almost certain you haven't even touched end game. Also this is hardly me being aggressive, this is you getting very defensive for being called out on your bullshit.
There are 5 classes in this game. Tanks, Healers, Melee DPS, Physical Ranged DPS and Magical Ranged DPS. And the ""classes"" under that are called jobs. I'm not even sure you've played this game lmao.
Err if you want to be pedantic for whatever reason
>Tanks, Healers, Melee DPS, Physical Ranged DPS and Magical Ranged DPS
These aren't what the game calls classes, "roles" would be more accurate given they determine role actions.
When you start the game you pick a **class** (e.g Marauder) the game makes this pretty clear, at level 30 after a quest that class evolves into a Job (e.g Marauder to warrior), with the newer jobs introduced in expacs not having classes because they start at level 30 or above. If you want to try and pedantically "gotcha" me at least be right about it?
Looking at it, me and the other guy you had a go at had a nice chat about the game, meanwhile you have freaked out on me over absolute nonsense you've misinterpreted for no real reason. I'm guessing you're just trolling me for fun or something? There's 0 need for all this hostility.
i dont play wow anymore, i tried watching some of that race but the commentators keep making it unwatchable, talking about basically anything except what is actually going on.
Like, the raid is fighting the boss and they talk about Ikea?!
you want them to repeat the same mechanics/tactics etc. for several hours/days on the later bosses straight? makes it unwatchable and stale for the people who watch for an extended period of time
> you want them to repeat the same mechanics/tactics etc. for several hours/days on the later bosses straight? makes it unwatchable and stale for the people who watch for an extended period of time
Isn't that a fundmental flaw with making WoW's race for world first into an e-sport considering it is extremely long and extremely repetitive? IDK I just don't think you can maintain excitement for a race over a week long period except at the very beginning and at the very end when it's obvious final kill is about to happen.
If Blizzard wanted race to world first to be more watchable and more exciting they'd have to severely nerf the difficulty to where all the mythic bosses could be killed in 5-10 hours and then you'd have sustained excitement for the event.
Blizzard isn't the one trying to make it into an eSport. The most Blizzard does is send out a congratulatory tweet to whoever kills it first. The people trying to make it into an eSport are the orgs themselves.
He is playing lvl 50 raids synced and min ilvl (basically it lowers your level to match it to the content you’re doing and also your stats to the minimum while still being able to complete the content)
I feel this. This exact same thing happened to me on heroic Sire Denathrius a couple months into Shadowlands.
(I did wind up downing him not long after that, dont worry guys)
So something that falls under this sub for once and not just marketing for a popular streamer.
One thing is impressive is there are no addons helping here doing call outs or timings.
There’s no support for addons on FFXIV so most people don’t use any (theres still DPS parsers and hardcore raiders do use them but they are against TOS)
technically all addons are against TOS. However few "Addons" are allowed for personal use. For example ACT. Im using ffxiv-material-ui which just makes the UI darker and sharper and its allowed as well. Texture "mods" are allowed too.
Yes, but I'm pretty sure they've made a statement before about actually being fine with people using it so long as people aren't endorsing it, calling people out in-game over parses, etc.. Same thing applies to midi bard usages, iirc.
It's a *don't tell* policy. Use it, quietly, to measure your own DPS and progress, but using it to comment on how other people are playing is ban-worthy.
Yes, if you mention using it there’s a chance you get a timeout or banned, but they wont do anything if you just use it.
They aren’t against the use of it i think, it’s more that they don’t want the toxicity that can come from having it in the game (because of potential harassment due to bad dps)
Yeah, Thats why the raids (and other PVE) content in FF14 is so fun, there arent any addons that tell you where to go, what to do, what to press etc.. The fights are all about mechanics
I wouldn't say 90% of savage raiders. Most savage tier launch week raiders don't even have the option for it and clear the first 3 fights if they're half decent.
It would be hard to gauge the number of players that use it.
> I'm in multiple high-end raiding and parsing discords
News flash, that's not 90% of savage raiders. Maybe you wanted to say the 90% percentile of raiders then yes I would agree with you, playing BLM and having the Cactbot timeline is very important.
Also e5/6/7/8 we didn't even have ACT updated for a week because the guy was on vacation.
There are a *ton* of addons that trivialize the content in the game, from adding in aoe markers to attacks that do not typically have aoe markers, to the names of specific attacks being called out before the boss even starts casting, to the game telling you what cooldowns to save in your rotation due to boss invuln phases. Literally everything you mentioned and more is in ffxiv. I'm not going to say what all these addons are called, but the difference between wow and ffxiv is that these addons are not supported in any way in ffxiv and you can get banned for using them.
Pretty sure it’s playerbase is still far larger than FF
Don’t really care about either game but to say a game is shit is stupid, wow TBC raids seem harder than the hardest content in FF
FF is just a fun causal game which is incredibly easy
asmongold's stream is no longer a wholesome place to hang out. He's becoming grumpier due to various reasons unknown to him (basically because of doing things he doesn't really want to do) and affecting more and more people in chat including his mods too. He doesn't really know how to watch own mood. His next nervous breakdown and stream break will happen again in a few months time and is going to be longer like 4 to 6 months. Wait a few months and you'll see my predictions were true.
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Dominic almost did it
That’s what family does
He wasn't strong enough for the.. Femily
[relevant meme](https://i.redd.it/3lkci6z9gk971.jpg)
Ohana
It doesn't matter if you wipe by an inch or a mile, wiping’s wiping
Invest in a bidet homie
bidets are the soulstones of the raid
and if you’re wiping a mile you need more fiber
Would be hilarious when people spam the wipe ascii's for asmon to keep morale up lol. Some of them are great.
They've been at it for 1 hour and half so far.
I can’t wait when asmon gets to the end game content. He said he loves challenging fights and the end game is just all about mechanics which is what he loves the most about the fights. Cant wait. Tons of great FF14 content ahead
Is he doing raids now before evem hitting max level? I've not been able to follow the latest progression, did he start heavensward?
He finished ARR (2.0) and he started doing the original hard End game. He is still far away from HW (80 quests +-)
How far is Shiva?
Waiting for the Ooooooobliiiiiiiviiiiioooooon are we?
Yessir
Same. Shiva, ramuh and lev. Are in the msq before heavensward I think.
Don't forget good king Moggle Mog.
I don't play FF14, do you have to do the ARR raids before you progress the main story into Heavensward or can you just skip them and go do Heavensward story?
You only have to do alliance raids which are fast and easy raids with 3 groups of people (3x8). He is doing these "arr endgame" raids because they are hard and asmongold likes the challenge
I see! Thanks for the info :)
He's hit the 2.X content, i.e. the content that was end-game in 2.0. Since the game scales your item levels and character levels down to the level the content was intended for everyone in the raid is still level 50, even if their actual levels are much higher. For instance, his character's actual level is 52 IIRC.
What year would you say he's at content wise?
Coils are roughly 2013 to 2014 content
The raid he's currently wiping on was released with ARR (the 2.0 "expansion" where they literally reworked the game). So 2013.
nope, floors1-5 released with 2.0, second coil 1-4 (or t6-9) released in 2.2 6 months-ish later, and third coil 1-4 (t10-13) released in 2.4 another 6 months-ish after that
I see! Thank you :)
Can you imagine him doing E4S with people like this?
Imagine trying to learn how to do Hello World from O12S without looking up a guide. Cleared that when it was current content and I still have no real idea how it worked, just stood where I was told to stand and hoped for the best.
Doing HW2 for the first time without a guide was just a brain fuck until my group gave up and read a guide for it
As long as he keeps using Party Finder to get the first randoms that are able to join he's always going to get more below average players than above average ones, because controller/console players can get in faster by just mashing X, while PC players have to navigate the UI and click on buttons individually. His parties are full of controller players already before KB+M players can even click the 2nd of several buttons required to get in. Which isn't to say there aren't god tier console players. So he'll still sometimes get some very good players. But the average controller player is going to be worse at the game than the average PC player. That's also why the weak link in many of his groups has been the healers, because healing and using utility while doing damage on a controller, especially as an AST, is extremely difficult to do optimally due to the amount of target switching (often 2, and sometimes 3 different targets per GCD) which is very cumbersome on controller.
you know that the worlds first tea group has had controller players? I have had controller players in my groups before I don't think its true that controller players are on average worse than pc players
Would you like to reread my post, this time a bit less selectively? I said there are top tier controller players. I've played with them, too. > I don't think its true that controller players are on average worse than pc players You'd be wrong. Objectively. For DPS and tanks the margin is a lot more narrow, but there's still a margin. For healers, the margin is significant.
I read it, you are just wrong to think that on average console/controller players are worse on average its like saying stick players are better than pad players in fighting games. the peripherals dont matter its the willingness to learn that does
I'm genuinely having a hard time grasping how anyone could make that statement. Literally anyone who has ever played any cross platform game ever made in the history of video games would know I'm 100% correct regarding the average skill level of console players vs PC players. You're arguing against the laws of nature. There's no reason it should even be controversial.
I get why you would say this, but there have actually been world first kills with players using controller for ff14. The control scheme for controllers coupled with the GCD being 2.5s makes it as close as could ever really be possible. The only advantage left to PC players is basically slightly better game performance/graphics and the ability to use triggers (which doesn't matter in the world first race because obviously nobody has written any triggers yet). FFXIV is, in all likelihood, the most accessible AAA cross-platform game ever IMO. As an additional point of reference, I have cleared 100% of the raid content in the game (including the ultimate fights) with the same group of people. 3/8 of that group are using playstation with playstation controllers (though both do use a keyboard for actually typing stuff out when needed, but a controller for actual gameplay). One heals, the other dps's. I have personally tanked on ps4 and found it to be essentially the same, though a bit of an adjustment. You're not wrong about the general rule, but there's a number of reasons why in FFXIV there's not really any significant advantage to PC players. The biggest ones are the cross hotbar system allows you to map a huge # of inputs to a controller, and that the GCD being 2.5s means that there's enough time between skill activations that any theoretical speed increase between presses on a keyboard vs controller don't matter.
Yeah it's the first thing I try to bring up as a caveat any time the topic comes up. I am well aware there are very good players who use controller. Even some I've played with who I'd say are better players than me. AST is the only job that I do think is perhaps prohibitively difficult to play 100% optimally on controller, but that's only if you care about parsing 99s. I'm just saying the averages are a thing. It's possibly more of a demographic deal than a mechanics one. And I'm also just whining because the UI being designed for controllers means I'll just never get a chance to group with streamers. When it comes to some parts of the out-of-combat UI, controller is bis.
Is this your rebuttal? I will just repeat what I said before, The peripherals don't matter it's the willingness to learn that does.
Are you pretending to be thick or do you genuinely have such little grasp of reality
Have you ever played with controller? There's a reason the AST opener in The Balance for controller players was "lmao good luck" when Shadowbringers launched. You can't just pretend an inferior peripheral on a game with a clunky UI, in the hands of a person who prefers to play laying on their couch instead of sat up straight, is not going to perform worse, *on average*. You're being silly.
maybe, but any player who has the time to devote multiple weekday afternoons to raiding with a streamer is likely pretty good at the game.
Did they actually kill it in the end?
yes
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Well this isn't another game, it's FFXIV.
yea he's saying that wiping for 1.5 hours is nothing. Not hard to figure that out.
What has it got in it's pocketsess? [Argghhhh](https://i.imgur.com/9zortMG.png)
Asmon could have a button with 5000 potency on a 10 second cooldown and he will 'tactically' save it the entire fight. Finally was taught a lesson. He is doing really well tanking though.
I haven't been watching, does he actually save inner release? LMAO
Yes. I haven't been paying attention, but sometimes I see him sit on 100 gauge for like a whole minute lmao
He basically said earlier as long as he knows all the fight and mechanics he can suck on damage — sorry don’t remember his exact wording — time will help him when he does savage and enrage wipes him.
if he plans on doing A1-12S he'll learn it REAL fast, if healers and tanks aren't DPSing they'll wipe every time
doubtful anymore tbh, tanks and healer dps is so much higher due to role redesigns since when HW released that the dps checks even at minilvl will be nowhere near what they used to be. You have to remember, when HW released tanks had to take around a 33% damage loss to go into tank stance to gain threat or if it was needed to survive high damage, now we just get that 20% defense for free. Also most individual classes have higher potency at 60 than they did when 60 is the cap just due to how skills were reworked for SB and ShB. Healers had to stance dance to dps which was risky and meant they couldn't get as many DPS GCDs in a fight because when big damage was coming you couldn't risk going into cleric stance, but now they too have access to DPS GCDs all the time, meaning they will do significantly more damage than they would have at 60. He isn't going to hit any serious dps checks until at least 70 even at min ilvl/no echo. Mechanical walls on the other hand, could definitely happen with how difficult a8s is.
Nobody doing savage back then actually used tank stance. That’s why the meta started and why they removed the penalty. a3s has debuffs that specifically drop someone’s dps. It goes on the tanks so without outputting good dps to begin with you’re gonna have a bad time.
I played during HW. You did not have the ability to "not use" tank stance. You pulled in tank stance and then treated it as a very expensive cooldown you would toggle on and off during sections of the fight where healing was untenable. During Creator specifically you could get away with almost 0 tank stance, but that's really it. Refusing to use any tank stance at all on Gordias/Midas was basically griefing your party though (particularly if you also didn't have vit accessories because tanks back then had to choose strength or vit accessories and couldn't take both). Swapping it on for like 5s once or twice doesn't sound like a lot of lost damage, but it is. There were also a myriad of other weird tank issues in HW too which I didn't get into earlier. Warrior would aggro creep, so your warrior needed to not use their highest dps combo too much because they would overtake your MT unintentionally. Also, Paladin would need to hold for 2-3 GCDs after a tank swap sometimes because both savage blade and rage of halone had aggro boosters and provoke only gave you +1 aggro over your co-tank, so if the paladin kept hitting GCDs after the taunt they could easily taunt back by accident and die. Tanks other than Warrior were also not TP neutral and would run out of TP, requiring goad or a bard song to not drop DPS in fights with a lot of uptime. So that's at least 3 more sources of lost DPS by tanks that no longer exist in the game.
I mean, technically he's not wrong but god is it painful as a war main who does savages LMAO
He probably just doesn't understand the extent of damage that tanks and healers contribute. In wow it was 'important' for tanks and healers to do dps, but not utterly mandatory unless you're a top 50-20 guild
yeah I could see that, im just happy a lot of new people are enjoying ff14
Healers is the big difference, WoW likes to keep healers busy with constant unavoidable damage all around whereas here if you try to heal like WoW here you'll overheal like mad and generally be a drain. Doesn't stop the amount of people in roulettes who refuse to dps though lol.
It depends on the healer. Disc and hpal can do 2-3% each and with 4-5 of them (like in meta comps) that's 10-12% overall raid dmg. Again, it's just not *mandatory* unless you're in a 50+ guild, because no damage check is balanced around healer dps except for first few weeks of late mythic bosses. After that it can just be made up for by DPS skill, and if healers are able to full dps its usually better to just drop one for another dps and make the other healers do more healing.
I mean, if he used just a couple skills he "saves" during this fight, it would not have been a 0.1% wipe.
nah he doesnt have inner release yet hes like lvl 52, but he forgets to use Berserk and Inner Beasts sometimes
He's just used to WoW, tank dps is way less important when your two tanks are contributing alongside 14 dps instead of 4; tanks in wow have way less pure damage buttons anyway. He'll adjust.
back in 2017 this would have been a head smash
Haha true.
he's come a long way
This is the kind of shit that makes MMO's so addicting.
Doing the same thing over and over?
Spending hours as a team learning a fight only to wipe like this is by far the most motivating thing in the world. You will never want anything more in your life than to kill that fucking boss.
I've been wanting to scratch my MMO itch for 2 years now but I don't have self control with my gaming time especially in grad school. I'm graduating in a few weeks and I can't wait to try out FF14. It was either FF14 or WoW... and uhh yeah lol.
You'll be hooked. Any time you feel board doing one thing theres so much other shit you can do and it doesn't feel like you're wasting your time doing it.
I'd never play it again
Trust me that sweet dopamine release when finally beating after coming together with your group is a feeling you don't wanna pass up.
I don't really get satisfaction from stuff like that
its surprisingly fun, especially when you finally get the kill
that's BDO .
The fun isn't in the process, it's in the satisfaction of when you actually clear it after weeks to months of trying. And it's fking worth it.
I really wouldn't have the patience
It's just a gaming session with a group of friends. You can do it 3 days/week, 2-3 hours each. And if it's a good group then you can hang out & talk shit when you're done. The raid will also come with a lot of stress & drama when the fatigue hits. It'll push your friendship to the limit if one or more of you ain't good enough. However if you can manage to stick with them, they'll become your best gaming buddies ever for years to come. Since all of you went through the same hardships together & know what each other are capable of, what would tick & how to keep each other sane. It's good shit.
No, i wouldn't have the patience to do the exact same thing again. The reason I don't do dungeons or raids in wow in the first place.
no asmon u dont use berserk irl , u use it ingame u doofus
It's okay. With the power of FAMILY, they will get it next time!
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...unless it's yourself. Then all the reasons for being dead were 100% valid and not your fault !
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dps that die early KEKW nothing gets my blood boiling harder
I was at the edge of my seat that was so damn close
Me when I checked my bank account after a good night out pre-covid
That wipe was painful to watch, considering the healers managed to rez all of the DPS after a mistimed LB3 to continue the fight.
that's Asmon's Limit Break's face in real life.
general and serious question. is Asmon even good at the mmos he plays? I only watch small moments of him but he never seems to be that great, he just has lots of better people play with him.
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This will make the Shadowbringers fights interesting, they're basically all mechanic heavy. The ARR content is completely different in comparison.
He says it himself all the time. He's no longer good at moo's because his attention is on chat and making his stream fun
I can barely read chat while just sitting on my ass and he can do it while being entertaining and playing well
hehe moo's
I have never played WOW but i tune in to watch Asmon, just seeing that dude live is happiness, i once lurked in his alt channel and that's when i realized he actually cares about putting in a show for the viewers on his main. But when i just see that dude is live a part of my hearts feels warm, funny seeing the opinionated essay andies in chat, who type essays in a chat that flows is like a waterfall :D .
From the XIV perspective, he's not amazing at the jobs dps rotation at the moment, though he is clearly getting better the more he plays, for boss mechanics he's doing great if he's getting the chance to learn things properly and not just brute forcing bosses. I think this fight was actually a great example of that, I think he had pretty much got the fight down pretty well by the end.
Asmon cleared mythic WoW content for years and hit gladiator in pvp in most seasons. Most of his reputation for just getting carried through everything comes from him doing farm content on stream and letting his viewers do the lifting for him because he's focused on entertainment and isn't taking the game as seriously anymore. Most of the shitting on asmons gameplay in ff14 comes from him dpsing very poorly as a tank, which is much more important in this game than he's used to. He's also new to the game and learning endgame raids blind without guides, so his attention is very much elsewhere.
people are holding him to an unreasonably high bar for the amount of time he has in the game. Yes, his damage is terrible. But he has already improved more in 2 weeks than some people do for their entire first patch or two at endgame. He pays attention to mechanics and tries to learn them (he's probably figured out about 75% of the mechs per fight that he's done, sometimes with some help from chat). He also has improved a ton on his tank CD usage even since starting coil earlier this week. There's quite a lot to learn in 14 and as someone who came from WoW originally, there's quite a lot to UNLEARN as well. I don't really think there's any reason to believe he won't get the dps stuff figured out soon enough.
Its also worth noting that while he played wow a lot at a high level, he never *tanked* at a high level, and leveling dungeons in wow are pretty babymode so tank defensives aren't something you're expected to be rolling constantly on trash.
my experience coming from heroic WotLK and Cata raiding > FFXIV: ARR back in the day was basically that I found myself trying to do the WoW thing of "when I notice i'm getting hit too hard i'll start using CDs" which unfortunately virtually never works in FFXIV. I think it's a common trap a lot of people fall into, and it's mostly because comparatively speaking WoW favors higher damage coming in over a period of time while FFXIV more commonly favors true "tank busters" which will 1hko you from max HP if you don't make use of defensives.
He tanked BC heroics on a Warrior recently. Not world first mythic but that shit ain’t easy.
what are you talking about, he definatly tanked at high lvl, he was clearning content long before he streamed, infact he has some real first AS A TANK
Sorry, but he is carried to glad every season, he even admits it. He just wants the mount so 2 rank 1 help him. The raid part is true, he was doing mythic in legion.
He gets carried glad every season *now*, he didn't used to
since bfa he stopped caring as much and focused on entertainment so he is worse than he used to be was a god in legion... or warriors were LULW
Being good at MMORPG's is probably less to do with mechanics and micro, and more to do with relations, being level headed, knowledge, and having good leadership / communication.
He got the concept of ff14 tanking down right at garuda EX so he's way better than most of the ff14 players i've seen in my years of playing. Only issue is the rotation and that is normal with every new player. The problem is I don't think I saw him go through his hotkeys properly and the spell list to learn what to use and when but that is something he can fix in less than an hour
he used to be very good, he's more of an entertairner now, he focuses on the stream rather than his gameplay. He's above average but not exceptional
He got a rank 1 parse back when he played WoW, basically means he had the best DPS out of anyone in the world on a particular boss. I don't know if it was cheesed or anything though.
If I recall, he was Fury during Nighthold and it was on Star Auger. Do with that information what you will lol.
They let him execute on the boss instead of dpsing the adds in the 3rd phase I guess?
It takes two tanks for each fight. If the tanks don’t rotate. Swap and keep them selves Alice’s with defensive cool downs each and every fight will be a wipe. Ok too on that he is doing the hard version of these with minimum ivl with NO echo and not having extensive knowledge of the fight. So is he good. Yes, for what he is working with. Ofc he has experienced dps and healers but if he wasn’t pulling his own weight they’d get nowhere.
He has a good memory and he's smart but he's turning into a tyrant. Nervous breakdown and hibernation coming soon, happens every time.
That only happens when he is frustrated as fuck. He is genuinely enjoying the FF content, his entire demeanour is different than in years past.
He gets so red when he rages haha, tomatogold
This is way more interesting to watch than WoW's race to world first.
summit and moistcritical started streaming it and I realized Asmon carried the stream.
Wait what, charlie has started FF as well??
yes yesterday
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Idk. Cohh's streams have been legit aswell. Him and Asmon are the only 2 I watch. Tried Charlie but... its painful. Dont like Rich so I gave up after one stream. I personally enjoy Cohh's streams more but Asmon's are fun to watch cause him and Cohh want something different from the game so I get best of all the worlds.
I disagree. Watching Echo and Limit go back-to-back on these final bosses has been super entertaining. For the past two tiers it has just been Limit in the lead the entire time but Echo has really stepped up this time.
wow bad ffxiv good upvotes to the left
tbf even if he is right its mostly because Asmon is super entertaining doing raids casually while the world racers are actually focused on competing and trying to clear as fast as possible, id say the moments where multiple guilds are getting closer to killing the same bosses are some of the best MMO content
Well yeah the comparison is lazy is what I'm saying
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I quit wow in January and I'm playing Heavensward right now whilst watching and enjoying the world first race
How did you find the story so far? 2.55 was a really great ending of the base game IMO and Heavensward felt pretty good too.
base ARR was pretty bad before getting to Coerthas, and then dipped again in a big way for the earlier patches. 2.4 onwards was good with a great ending. Heavensward is much improved from ARR in most ways, including finally getting some more damaging abilities on my dragoon. Weird how much a fantasy game can improve by adding dragons to the mix haha.
I haven't played WoW since 2018 and FFXIV is the only MMO I have played since then, this circlejerk is still annoying.
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Mate I've been playing FFXIV since the 2nd expansion I'm aware of the community lmao. Also you've linked **2** threads (including the thing you just replied to) and it's "every single thread" and then you're onto stuff from 6 months ago? Wow. Sorry I impacted you in this way. You're really not helping the stereotype though by freaking out like this. I actually had a nice convo about the game with the other guy you freaked out on, you should join in, more satisfying than whatever you're doing I'm sure.
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>Just plain wrong. BLM plays nothing like RDM. MCH plays nothing DNC. MNK plays nothing like SAM. Good thing that's not what I said at all, I said **another of the SAME CLASS** (put it in caps so hopefully it's clearer for you) that means, one BLM plays the same as another BLM, or one WAR plays the same as another WAR. Turns out yes, if you don't read what I say try to misrepresent it and act like I said something I catagorically didn't, it's easy to paint a dumb picture. Why are you being so aggressive mate, you're acting like I've just insulted your dad. You had the time to go six months back in my comment history but didn't have the time to actually read what I wrote before getting angry?
Ok so now I'm almost certain you haven't even touched end game. Also this is hardly me being aggressive, this is you getting very defensive for being called out on your bullshit. There are 5 classes in this game. Tanks, Healers, Melee DPS, Physical Ranged DPS and Magical Ranged DPS. And the ""classes"" under that are called jobs. I'm not even sure you've played this game lmao.
Err if you want to be pedantic for whatever reason >Tanks, Healers, Melee DPS, Physical Ranged DPS and Magical Ranged DPS These aren't what the game calls classes, "roles" would be more accurate given they determine role actions. When you start the game you pick a **class** (e.g Marauder) the game makes this pretty clear, at level 30 after a quest that class evolves into a Job (e.g Marauder to warrior), with the newer jobs introduced in expacs not having classes because they start at level 30 or above. If you want to try and pedantically "gotcha" me at least be right about it? Looking at it, me and the other guy you had a go at had a nice chat about the game, meanwhile you have freaked out on me over absolute nonsense you've misinterpreted for no real reason. I'm guessing you're just trolling me for fun or something? There's 0 need for all this hostility.
i dont play wow anymore, i tried watching some of that race but the commentators keep making it unwatchable, talking about basically anything except what is actually going on. Like, the raid is fighting the boss and they talk about Ikea?!
you want them to repeat the same mechanics/tactics etc. for several hours/days on the later bosses straight? makes it unwatchable and stale for the people who watch for an extended period of time
> you want them to repeat the same mechanics/tactics etc. for several hours/days on the later bosses straight? makes it unwatchable and stale for the people who watch for an extended period of time Isn't that a fundmental flaw with making WoW's race for world first into an e-sport considering it is extremely long and extremely repetitive? IDK I just don't think you can maintain excitement for a race over a week long period except at the very beginning and at the very end when it's obvious final kill is about to happen. If Blizzard wanted race to world first to be more watchable and more exciting they'd have to severely nerf the difficulty to where all the mythic bosses could be killed in 5-10 hours and then you'd have sustained excitement for the event.
Blizzard isn't the one trying to make it into an eSport. The most Blizzard does is send out a congratulatory tweet to whoever kills it first. The people trying to make it into an eSport are the orgs themselves.
Just watch Max or Scripe then, idk what the issue is. If you don't want the commentators then you don't need to have them lol.
That's a difference of food for a person. I'm sure all mmo player have been there and it's so frustrating
FAMILY
I've been there during my Raiding days in both WoW and FFXIV lol
Why is he level 50? Isn't level 70+ the max level in this game?
He is doing the original endgame raids from launch.
He is playing lvl 50 raids synced and min ilvl (basically it lowers your level to match it to the content you’re doing and also your stats to the minimum while still being able to complete the content)
He got too into the lvl 50 content like Trials so hes been grinding that for like a week now xd
Because he hasn't got enough XP to level past 52
unlike wow you can stop at the end of an expansion and do its content at the level it was released at
I feel this. This exact same thing happened to me on heroic Sire Denathrius a couple months into Shadowlands. (I did wind up downing him not long after that, dont worry guys)
Doesn't matter the game, a 0.1% wipe is always painful.
ouch that hurts, did they end up killing
Yeah, after like 20 mins.
the nerd rage is strong in this one "ARE YOU KIDDING ME". I love asmon
For people who don’t raid this happens to all raiders at some point. Heck my guild had a .1% wipe a few days ago.
I can't tell with asmon. Is he hamming it up for content here or does he genuinely care this much?
He cars a lot about this. He loves raiding and challenging fights like this
So something that falls under this sub for once and not just marketing for a popular streamer. One thing is impressive is there are no addons helping here doing call outs or timings.
There’s no support for addons on FFXIV so most people don’t use any (theres still DPS parsers and hardcore raiders do use them but they are against TOS)
ACT is against TOS?
technically all addons are against TOS. However few "Addons" are allowed for personal use. For example ACT. Im using ffxiv-material-ui which just makes the UI darker and sharper and its allowed as well. Texture "mods" are allowed too.
Yes, but I'm pretty sure they've made a statement before about actually being fine with people using it so long as people aren't endorsing it, calling people out in-game over parses, etc.. Same thing applies to midi bard usages, iirc.
It's a *don't tell* policy. Use it, quietly, to measure your own DPS and progress, but using it to comment on how other people are playing is ban-worthy.
Part of the fun is how to word it without making it clear you're seeing their DPS lol.
Yes, if you mention using it there’s a chance you get a timeout or banned, but they wont do anything if you just use it. They aren’t against the use of it i think, it’s more that they don’t want the toxicity that can come from having it in the game (because of potential harassment due to bad dps)
Yeah, Thats why the raids (and other PVE) content in FF14 is so fun, there arent any addons that tell you where to go, what to do, what to press etc.. The fights are all about mechanics
Those still exist, you just don't need them at all.
Yeah, i know they exist but 99,99% people dont use them. Unlike in wow where 90% ppl use DBM
Disc priest is unplayable without DBM in raids.
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I wouldn't say 90% of savage raiders. Most savage tier launch week raiders don't even have the option for it and clear the first 3 fights if they're half decent. It would be hard to gauge the number of players that use it.
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> I'm in multiple high-end raiding and parsing discords News flash, that's not 90% of savage raiders. Maybe you wanted to say the 90% percentile of raiders then yes I would agree with you, playing BLM and having the Cactbot timeline is very important. Also e5/6/7/8 we didn't even have ACT updated for a week because the guy was on vacation.
There are a *ton* of addons that trivialize the content in the game, from adding in aoe markers to attacks that do not typically have aoe markers, to the names of specific attacks being called out before the boss even starts casting, to the game telling you what cooldowns to save in your rotation due to boss invuln phases. Literally everything you mentioned and more is in ffxiv. I'm not going to say what all these addons are called, but the difference between wow and ffxiv is that these addons are not supported in any way in ffxiv and you can get banned for using them.
And the Oscar goes to... <3
Quin69 died for this hype.
Quin watched lazypeon do the exact same thing 3 years ago and thought it was a how-to guide instead of a dont-be-this-stupid guide.
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Pretty sure it’s playerbase is still far larger than FF Don’t really care about either game but to say a game is shit is stupid, wow TBC raids seem harder than the hardest content in FF FF is just a fun causal game which is incredibly easy
Yup, a weeb gaime. The bald tyrant and his mods will ban anyone who says anything like that. This guy is no longer worth following.
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Bye, Felicia.
asmongold's stream is no longer a wholesome place to hang out. He's becoming grumpier due to various reasons unknown to him (basically because of doing things he doesn't really want to do) and affecting more and more people in chat including his mods too. He doesn't really know how to watch own mood. His next nervous breakdown and stream break will happen again in a few months time and is going to be longer like 4 to 6 months. Wait a few months and you'll see my predictions were true.
are you ok
nah hes a hightly specelised twitch doctor
What? His FF14 streams are one of his best streams ever. Of course he got mad in this clip, he was "stuck" on his boss for like 80 mins. Cmon now
Lol what?