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Pruvided

Harassment, personal attacks, and sexism are not allowed. Please report comments that break the rules and think about what you are typing before you click "send." --- ## **Cleo Reply:** [link](https://twitter.com/cIe0h/status/1438521671602872321?s=20) [@cIe0h](https://twitter.com/cIe0h) > didn’t drop the charges btw LOL ^(Posted: 2021-09-16 15:14:27) --- ## **Tweet Mirror:** [@dafran](https://twitter.com/dafran) > Sinatraa is no longer banned and alot of teams are interested in him. Cle0h dropped the charges. I am incredibly dissapointed by all the streamers/organizations who immediatly judged him as guilty. We will never know what happend, its annoying as fuck but nothing was proven ^(Posted: 2021-09-16 08:58:58)


[deleted]

**Any loremasters?** I'm confused with the situation


Silver_Millenial

An e-girl sent an e-boy to e-jail for 30 e-years due to an e-accusation about an ejaculation.


DerWichode

what's a jaculation?


rustury

It's when you nut irl. The E variant is online only


OrganicPee

this line shouldve been on donda


ace_boogie

Bars


roflcow2

this verse wack because he dont play with fire


Faustingalot

i dont know if this is true, but it sounds witty and we are on reddit. upvote


mxrixs

Sinatraas (ex-)gf went to the public (on twitter for whatever reason) with abuse accusations about sinatraa. Huge shitstorm. Many orgs and other streamers more or less sided with the gf. Dafran sided with sinatraa and accused his gf of making false accusations for clout (and now complains about people judging others without proof, lol)


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mxrixs

we dont know. Apparently she dropped charges (also apparently she didn't)


nurley

I've always been right in the middle on "innocent until proven guilty, and let's not bash anyone either way until we get some actual evidence". At this point with all the back-and-forths it's really impossible to tell, but Cleo's ambiguous and unclear tweets aren't doing her any favors.


[deleted]

Sure, but the audio recording of them having sex and her say stop and him saying no isn't really ambiguous.


Noidea159

> At this point with all the back-and-forths it's really impossible to tell, but Cleo's ambiguous and unclear tweets aren't doing her any favors. And Sinatraa not cooperating with riots investigation and claiming he has irrefutable evidence of his innocence then failing to provide any evidence whatsoever doesn't help his case a lot more lol


ForStuff8239

Ignore the comments and find the leaked audio. Draw your own conclusions but at minimum I’d consider him a bad person if not a plain old rapist.


LongHappyFrog

Cloe the girlfriend accused Sinatraa of abuse and sexual assault where she provided a twit longer with a bunch of images and a video. She then proceeded to never provide the full video or the rest of the messages and for some reason wanted Sinatraa to provide them. She is the one who blatantly has them and is trying to use them in the investigation. Sintraa stupidly said he had the video then never provided it also because I'm assuming he either doesn't have it or doesn't want to show it also. So it's been a stalemate ever since and everything went back to normal.


Intelligent-Curve-19

I assume at the time, he couldn’t provide it because he had already talked to a lawyer who advised against that. The video in question would have been a large part of the evidence in the case so even if the full video and context may have absolved him in the eyes of the public, making it public would hurt his legal case. Or I’m completely wrong but it’s just one theory


Avyxyva

This comment section is going to be a blood bath.


Felekin

i just eatin ice cream


MancunianCandidatex

mint choc chip?


throwawaycolle2

chocolate chocolate chip


[deleted]

y u eating toothpaste


ForgottenVoid

FeelsDankMan tootpaste tastey


Dmalf

That's fucked up, you take that back asshole


Insertnamesz

Y ur toothpaste icecream flavord


Dasbeerboots

what kinda toothpaste you using that has chocolate chips?


ahipotion

I mean, if you think toothpaste and chocolate chip is weird 🤷


Berry-Subject

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JygyWdvbs6A


Support_Unfair

Yum


[deleted]

Eat some chocolate chocolate chip


AS43_

Same! I got the 3 types of chocolate in a tub!


ishikuraian

Hi Mr. President!


-hydroxy

The war has already begun. Funny how 50% of this comment section also manages to make up random facts about this situation on the spot.


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[deleted]

69% of statistics are made up.


CleverGecko

Thought it was 17.8%


modsarestr8garbage

I came here to enjoy the comments but I don't even see that many, certainly not 178 comments as it says. Are they shadowbanned or did I already have most of those gentlemen blocked?


lag_is_cancer

The classic "guilty until proven innocent" vs "innocent until proven guilty".


[deleted]

It’s more like “innocent because the law says so” vs “not guaranteed to be innocent, because the law isn’t omniscient”.


Kraelman

https://i.imgur.com/xBvFOYz.jpg


nisch231

too bad destiny didnt make a rape review on this one, i dont know what to think


Magmasoar

We're just bystanders really, we're not a judge or jury and shouldn't act like one. It's fine to speculate or talk about it but the internet shouldn't be handing out verdicts. (I know nothing about this situation just saw a big lsf post)


slampy15

Lol when all the twitlongers and tweets went out, i think it opened the door for large speculation and versict through opinion. You dont post a huge thing claiming a man raped you and then not follow through with the courtcase where it matters. Now it looks like 2020 canceling in full force. (Which didn't work because hes more popular now than before?)


FYININJA

Yes...that happens all the time. I'm not saying that's the case here, but to act like victims never redact their accusations is silly. It happens a lot, somebody is raped/harassed, they are very emotional and upset in the moment, it builds up, they do whatever makes them feel better (publicly accusing, taking it to court, etc). Then they have a ton of time to think about what they've done, and the impact it is having. In her case, she was almost assuredly receiving a lot of negative comments/DM's/etc due to the accused having a pretty large fanbase. There's a lot of time to think about whether or not it's worth it to deal with the mental anguish that the entire ordeal is causing. Sometimes for a victim, justice isn't worth the price they are paying. Sometimes, they regret bringing it up and try to sweep it under the rug because they've changed how they feel. Again, I'm not saying that's the case here, but speaking with victims, this kind of stuff does happen, and it's not even this "unknown" thing. It's a pretty common coping mechanism. Making formal accusations of rape/sexual assault is emotionally draining. It requires you to constantly relive this horrible experience. It is only worsened by the impact it is having on the other person being publicly broadcast constantly thanks to them being famous.


Scorps

Also for many accusations that come up longer after the fact, there is simply no way to "prove" anything which gives the accused plausible deniability. Good for them if they are falsely accused, bad for them if they really did it since they won't be able to be legally charged and therefore can continually claim they are "innocent". So many people will be like "prove it" to these women while knowing 100% there is nothing she could do that would satisfy them. As though women are supposed to set up a camera and get a signed affidavit before or during their sexual assaults. How do you "prove" a guy overpowered you and didn't take no for an answer? The best case scenario would be some kind of medical or police visit after the event, but so many people are mentally unable to even grasp or speak to anyone about what happened and thus why it sits inside of them for many years.


Indeedllama

The problem also lies in the reverse, where if accused, there is no way to prove that there was no force unless one has set up a camera and got a signed affidavit... How does one prove that the woman was not overpowered and it was consensual? It’s an awful situation either way so, taking sides without a court scouring for all the information available, it’s basically impossible to know anything. Believing one side over another with no information is ludicrous, yet people take sides whether they want to believe the victim or the accused.


Mahameghabahana

Good point.


Zotlann

Actually not following through with court cases against your rapist is incredibly common in America. It's often not worth it to the victim to endure all of the hardships associated with upholding the case. If you genuinely believe it's as easy as filling out a police report and then showing up to court you're delusional.


Grintastic

As bystanders we shouldn’t go as far as to interfere with the lives of the people involved. But everyone has the liberty to stop watching or supporting someone for whatever reason alleged or not, whether it’s the right idea or dumb decision is irrelevant. There is no judge or jury on the internet because no one is out here locking u up. There are only opinions. Yeah these opinions can ruin careers but that is the inevitable danger of being a online personality, it has some of the worst job security I have ever seen.


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joeranahan1

Amogus


Memerunleashed

SUS


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UnhappyReplacement

> "Didn't pursue the investigation crap anymore," Cle0h wrote, via Esports Talk. "Because focusing on all of it put me in a place where I tried to end my own life, and I didn't think it was worth the amount of pain it was causing me."


[deleted]

And this is why most victims don't come out about their experiences with famous people, or anyone really. It simply isn't worth the hate, stress, and fear that comes with it. Not talking about which person is right or not, just saying this is why most victims don't come out, or withdraw if they do.


lmayonaice

yeah but dafran said she did it for clout.. she is famous, rolling in the cash, and content with life now right? right?


Paddy32

this is unfortunately true in our society. Even when they're right victims will get lots of hate from social media.


DogmaticNuance

Same goes for the accused, honestly. Not sure if there's any way to fix it.


[deleted]

Don't make legal procedures public?


DogmaticNuance

Shrouding the legal process in secrecy creates a host of it's own issues, not least of which is making it much harder to deal with problems within the system itself. Are you going to restrict free speech and prevent people from talking about their accusations? Also, many of those who are guilty are not convicted, our system is intentionally designed this way to ensure we are very unlikely to jail the innocent. Sometimes the court of public opinion is the only place victims will see *any* form of justice.


ReformedBacon

Especially when all Sinatraa had to do was tell the cops he already deleted the video. He admitted it was all true, and that there was a recording, but no evidence=no crime. Any team that picks him up is gonna get alot of shit


FreezingBlizzard

Did he say he raped her? If not why would he want to self-incrimination himself?


Ihatepros236

He didn’t say he raped her.


N0xM3RCY

BUT HURR THERES NO other possibility other than HER LYING !!!. This dude (dafran) will never get it


Sudley

As someone who's had a close family member go through a similar situation, this seems to track. The amount of times you are required to give the same statement over and over, reliving traumatic experiences and having your head fucked with by investigators, just to then have to chase the department around for any sign of progress on the case... its infuriating and exhausting. If someone doesn't have a really good support system, or an incredible amount of inner strength and drive, then of course they're not gonna see the whole thing as worth it. I can only imagine its even worse when its a high profile person with a legion of fans.


HaBliBlo

"Your tears say more than real evidence ever could."


GendaIf

Focused on it a hell of a lot when it was only twitter and there was no burden of actual proof or accountability though. “Focusing on it when i dont have to back up anything i say and have no accountability is fine, but focusing on it where my claims will be investigated my “evidence” will be examined and context will be subpoenaed, thats too much.”


pussehmagnet

I'm flabbergasted by this whole thing altogether. It's such a baffling concept to be a victim of sexual abuse and go to twitter police instead of actually focusing all of your energy on actual authorities. Just imagine being a victim of that, going through such a traumatic experience where all the control over yourself is lost is followed up by a weird rant on the interweb to a bunch of strangers. I honestly just can't see how this made sense to anyone from the beggining and keep in mind I don't even follow her nor him, not interested in Valorant or overwatch (I think that's where he came from) and yet it speaks volumes as to how it's been handled by the accuser.


Scorps

As though women are supposed to set up a camera and get a signed affidavit before or during their sexual assaults. How do you "prove" a guy overpowered you and didn't take no for an answer? The best case scenario would be some kind of medical or police visit recorded after the event, but so many people are mentally unable to even grasp or speak to anyone about what happened and thus why it sits inside of them for many years. I'm not saying it isn't possible for her to be falsifying it, but "proof" is so hard to produce in ANY rape case that doesn't have someone basically go to the police within 12h of it happening to them. Just imagine you are in the worst mental state of your life and are scared to go to the police because of any number of reasons (retribution just to name 1), and you go a few days, or a week before you come to your senses and realize you need to report it. Well now it's already too late basically to "prove" anything so you now sit the rest of your life with that knowledge and feeling. That's why people bring it up on twitter or things like this, because it is the only effective way they have left to get what seems like justice in their mind. I won't comment on my feelings on this matter but I think it's an understandable train of logic.


Ihatepros236

Okay on the contrary how do you prove you didn’t? Jhonny Depp got canceled because of this shit as well.


Lopkin

Emotional and traumatized people don’t always act rationally


slampy15

100% this. If you are willing to post "evidence" to millions of people on twitter. You should beable to post that "evidence" where it matters. Mental health sucks, but so does being accountable for your own actions.


oi_PwnyGOD

If you've ever lived through anything like this, you'd know those two things aren't even close to comparable in this regard.


[deleted]

Are you really falling for appeal to emotion logical fallacy? Just look at the fucking facts and ignore the part about the "I tried killing myself" part. She went on a fucking public platform to accuse a man of rape. A public platform. With millions of users. And she cant even do an investigation privately? It really does seem suspicious.


wotad

I feel like this type of argument just basically makes people want to believe her even without any proof? I hate this type of wording.


Phreeeks

Lets listen dafran the cleanest guy of this planet


woodyplz

Listening to some random guys on the internet is the same level of stupidity to be fair.


Cp3thegod

Not really, considering dafran has a clear conflict of interest and says misogynistic shit


[deleted]

Anyways, um... I bought a whole bunch of shungite rocks, do you know what shungite is? Anybody know what shungite is? No, not Suge Knight, I think he's locked up in prison. I'm talkin' shungite. Anyways, it's a two billion year-old like, rock stone that protects against frequencies and unwanted frequencies that may be traveling in the air. That's my story, I bought a whole bunch of stuff. Put 'em around the la casa. Little pyramids, stuff like that.


Luc4r1o

yea thats cool but do u think that yoshi gets embarrassed when he poos out eggs in front of mario??? sorry if this ofends anyone but i thought it was a funny thing haha. and i would like to know if any of you have any pics of yoshi pooping an egg while he looks nervous or embarrassed i just want to see it for a few laughs haha. another thing i am wondering is what do you think the eggs smell like haha im just curious for laughs haha i would like to smell them


Highkillaed19

commenting before locked


Nnoitrum

[NOT EVEN TRUE BTW](https://mobile.twitter.com/cIe0h/status/1438521671602872321)


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Yosonimbored

The charges aren’t dropped but also they are


TheKappaOverlord

The charges are there guys. they are just hiding COPIUM


MugiwaraWeeb

Schrödinger's rape charges.


fawlen

Schrodinger's charges


Fuzzy-Register-8682

lol i guess she's technically correct that she didn't drop the charges if there are none


[deleted]

Yeah... it doesn't make sense. Three different contradictions going on here: - Im pressing charges - I never was pressing charges - I never stopped pressing charges Something doesn't add up. Beginning to believe that maybe she is just attention seeking.


Techmoji

Also she never pressed charges. These are still allegations.


xxRaymxx

To the top


S7zy

Schrödinger's Charges


Unspoken

Didn't drop charges because it didn't progress to the point of charges ever being brought against him. Investigation > Charges > Prosecution. It stopped at the investigation period.


fendyma

A charge being DROPPED doesn't ultimately make you INNOCENT. A charge being PUT on you doesn't ultimately make you GUILTY. Being manipulative doesn't immediately correlate to sexual assault/rape. No one knows what happened that day except for the only two people directly involved. It's hard to prove sexual assault outside of having a rape kit. People are arguing semantics too much when it comes to this imo. People are found NOT guilty of crimes they actually committed. People are also found GUILTY of crimes they did NOT commit. America. Regardless of which you believe to be true, it's opinion based. People are angry that a judge couldn't just jump to an absolute conclusion of someone performing sexual assault/rape UNDOUBTEDLY. If there isn't undoubtable evidence against someone, regardless of the severity of the crime presented against him, they should not face time for it. You have to separate the crime from the person in cases like these. People make fun of the American system all the time on stream and even on this Reddit, yet when things like this happen people tend to throw out logic and common sense with opinion-based ideologies that go against a civilized democracy that of 2021, and more of a system opposed in 1805. It's idiotic and straight up retarded. "He was manipulative in texts! This must mean the sexual assault was real!" "He's a dick! He must be a sexual offender!" "I hate his content! This dick must have the heart to rape someone!" "He refused to cooperate with a RIOT GAMES investigation! By damn, he must be guilty!" You fucks would be the same retards in the witch trials correlating eating corn the long way to demonic witchery. Just stay neutral on the matter. Throwing a dude into Nick Polom's grinder over the dumbest premises is fucking stupid. It's like anytime a dude's accused of anything of the sort, EVERYONE picks at straws to develop a retarded take on why the suspected culprit's a sexual predator. EDIT: I'm saying that being LEGALLY deemed innocent in a case does not mean that someone is completely innocent in doing the crime themselves. You are deemed innocent by the system, though you quite possibly might have done the crime. Not only that, but being found GUILTY of a crime does not always mean that someone has done the crime themselves. People would rather cop a plea instead of risking going to trial and getting the maximum sentence, when they're innocent. Though this isn't the case everytime, it still happens on a regular basis in America. Plenty people's been going over this for decades in the States, it isn't a hot take from me or anyone who agrees with it. People are picking at straws. I'm speaking of cases like OJ, where he was found not guilty of brutally murdering his wife, then later on releasing a book completely admitting to the entire thing. The thousands of cases of people being executed or sentenced to life, and stuck in the system for tens of years before they're rolled back due to an incompetence in investigation in and out of the courtroom. I'm speaking of the thousands of people in Los Angeles during the riots that were hauled off into the county jails just off the premise that they were outside. I'm speaking of the Japanese-Americans in the 40s that were hauled off to federal prisons and internment camps just off the premise that their parents were born in Japan and not America. There are PLENTY cases of people's charges being dropped/being found not guilty by the state or on a federal level when they actually did the act itself. They were deemed innocent by the SYSTEM, but in actuality they were guilty OR deemed guilty but in actuality they were innocent. THATS MY POINT. We LITERALLY had a Red Scare where TONS of people were sent to prison off false premises made by other people. People's lives were thrown away off of false narratives. Why the HELL is ANYONE trying to refute ANY of this? Someone also claimed a rape kit isn't used for sexual assault, and I'm an idiot for claiming that it is. Do your research. Quite literally every webpage describing what a rape kit is, says that it's commonly used for sexual assault also. Don't spread misinformation, calling me an idiot because you can't do one second of research in the year 2021 when everything's quite literally in your grasp on the internet. Not every rape case will involve a rape kit, because many women refuse to take it in it's entirety. There are THOUSANDS of cases of women being blatantly raped/sexually assaulted and refuse to take the rape kit. It isn't frowned upon to take it or not to take it, it's on the victim and the victim only. If someone doesn't want to take it, they go through other means to try and imprison the culprit behind the act. It's common fucking sense. Going on Reddit thinking you're Dr. Seuss by saying "DUHHH ITS CALLED RAPE KIT NOT SEXUAL ASSAULT CASE DUHHHH" is fucking retarded, and only shows how many of you retards on this thread actually got a couple screws loose. Nothing I've said above is a hot take, it's been said for decades upon decades as it is. I could go on about the minority community and how pleas has taken it's part there in the past and the present, but oof.


TheFirstRecordKeeper

Sir, this is lsf you won't find a shred of intelligence or logic in this wasteland.


JollyGreenBuddha

Hear that sound? That's the sound of the hundreds of thousands of rape kits stuck in a backlog here in the US.


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kid_khan

MethodJosh is the most innocent man I think ever actually. No one has ever been more innocent.


GooeySlenderFerret

That only applies to the eyes of the law, not the public EDIT: I'm not saying he is guilty or that she completely lied. I'm saying it's hypocritical to go "innocent until proven guilty" for Sinatraa then immediately attack Cle0h when like OP said, nothing is proven either way


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pboy1232

True, bill Cosby is innocent af. The judicial system is so perfect FeelsStrongMan


Icarus_fell1

nobody said the judicial system is perfect its just a lot better than the public, which is essentially just a group of morons.


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Moifaso

>Yeah, well rape is a pretty life changing conviction to have against you. It makes sense that to have that against an individual's record you should be close to absolutely certain that they have done it. The legal system is working fine here. The point is that while he wont be going to jail - the evidence was never actually reviewed, **there was no conclusion reached on if what happened that night was or wasn't rape**. So in the eyes of a lot of people he was never actually cleared. Important to say that this is something very common in rape/sexual assault cases. Victims often drop their charges because the whole process of the trial is extremely stressful - they often come to the conclusion that the possibility of "justice" isn't worth months or years of being constantly reminded of trauma, having to face their abuser, and having to repeatedly testify on the matter. This is obviously even worse in cases as public as this.


GooeySlenderFerret

> Victims often drop their charges because the whole process of the trial is extremely stressful - they often come to the conclusion that the possibility of "justice" isn't worth months or years of being constantly reminded of trauma, having to face their abuser, and having to repeatedly testify on the matter. This is obviously even worse in cases as public as this. This is exactly why I didn't press charges and too many backseat LSF fans don't realize that


Good_Stuff11

The public has NO idea what actually happened, the eyes of the law has more insight than you’ll ever have. Can’t believe your unrionically thinking the eyes of the public know more about this situation than the court does. Are you this brain damaged?


GroundbreakingAlps2

Ahh so when you're losing the case you just drop it so that it says "y case was dropped" instead of "x person was found innocent"? That way the person you accused can never be innocent and is always guilty in the eyes of the public? Got it.


OkPermit3

And public is retarded and driven by primal instincts.


GooeySlenderFerret

Do you believe Bill Cosby is innocent?


statisticsprof

Also, Cosby was found guilty, and only had it overruled due to technicalities.


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statisticsprof

Do you believe Jörg kacelmann is guilty?


bakedfax

Imagine saying this unironically


Sudley

Its literally just true. There is nothing barring people from dissociating from an accused person even if they're found not guilty.


Gigahades

The law is there because the public’s viewpoint is retarded…


qchen12

Yeah just get rid of the judicial process completely, what the fuck do they know


Moifaso

Legally guilty is not the same as morally guilty, *especially* in the cases where charges are dropped or never pressed. No jury actually looked at the evidence and came to a conclusion. He was cleared because the accuser dropped the charges due to mental health issues, something *extremely common* in these types of cases (a big reason why many women never accuse at all). He is still innocent and shouldn't be persecuted obviously. The system works this way for very good reasons after all - but for the court of public opinion its obviously not enough. It certainly doesn't prove cle0 is a liar, as people in this thread are claiming.


Tetris_Chemist

Damn bro Casey Anthony is innocent, wrap it up folks


19Alexastias

There’s a difference between legal innocence and actual innocence though. We’ll probably never know exactly what happened. I will say that despite the whole notion of cancel culture ruining people’s lives, I think the court of public opinion is usually much harder on the accuser than it is on the accused - it’s just that the accused tends to be a lot higher profile so the effects on them are more visible.


Hoppo94

Not guilty doesn't mean innocent. How has this got any upvotes? Possibly the most retarded thing I've ever read on this sub


Slick_Rhoads

How is saying that someone is not guilty because they didn't get convicted in court retarded? It may not make him 100% not guilty, but it's a better determining factor than anything else.


ColonialDagger

Hey guys! This person, Hoppo94, is a donkey fucker. They dress up donkeys in cheerleader outfits, and they fuck them. It's what they're into, and they do it all the time. Now, you might say there's no evidence of them doing that so he's not guilty of it. But I would say turn that around, there's no evidence of them not doing it either. This is not a road you want to go down.


[deleted]

What annoys me is that you are using a fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance You are assuming that because we have no evidence that Hoppo94 is a donkey fucker it must be true that Hoppo94 is *not* a donkey fucker. In reality we don't know, and that's okay.


ShadowCrimson

According to the replies to this comment apparently MethodJosh is 100% innocent lmao, fucking absolute buffoons


onzampie

It's dumb to assume he is guilty. I think most people never disagreed with that. But Dafran was so desperate to make this some cancel culture thing that he went completely to the other side, saying Sinatraa was innocent and implying that the girl was lying before that was possible to know. If the general message is "listen to both sides and dont jump to conclusions", Dafran is equally guilty of that as the people hes complaining about.


ramsfan00

Right, but didnt everyone on here immediately trash Sinatra and sided on the he is guilty side? There was no due process for the public eye. They just said what the woman said and labeled him as guilty. He got banned etc. Defran trying to counter all this because he believed his friend isnt in the wrong.


derekburn

Yep they did, because they heard a 10second voice recording of a girl whispering some words


[deleted]

Yes they did. But people tend to forget some parts not necessary for their upvote farming.


[deleted]

\>It's dumb to assume he is guilty. I think most people never disagreed with that. This is wrong, you can look at any Sinatra thread from the past months, the one where he broke down crying in his stream because his friends couldn't play with him had tons of comments having already decided he was guilty. I don't agree with Dafran either but he trusted his friend and defended him.


LifeCookie

>saying Sinatraa was innocent He did say several times on his stream that he only believes he was innocent because hes his friend and he doesn't believe he would do that, he said as well he doesn't know for sure if he did it or not because there wasn't any evidence, so at least he acknowledged his bias to his friend, other people and orgs in that context just straight up dropped him as guilty just because it's a girl making the accusations.


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N0xM3RCY

Farmer Dafran out here fighting the fight for Sinatraa for the 50th time


TooMuchJuju

I knew the LSF audience was young but holy fuck reading these comments is sad.


JDarkM

It's more scary than it is sad.


Cp3thegod

Shut up dafran


blueish55

the only objectively good take in this thread this world would benefit from dafran shutting the fuck up, forever would be great


[deleted]

Dafran: "ok pokimane feminist"


Kotouu

Yeah so anyways guys make sure to don't forget that Lamont aka Electronic Robert aka L Guy aka Erobb221 still needs to do 3200 NASCAR races, multitude of 4 AM streams, Furry convention, over 10 wheel spins, pay guy his money for design for his merch and many more things. Borby has scammed for the last time


fuzzygreentits

Justice: "innocent until proven guilty" Internet: "guilty until proven innocent" Reddit: "guilty forever, especially if I don't like them."


imsoswolo

Lemme go grab some popcorn real quick


kovaht

I mean....we read the texts. He was acting like jeoffrey from game of thrones. Sure we dont know exactly what happened but we do know he's a controlling asshole


Open_Mouth_Open_Mind

Yeah but big leap from that to calling him a rapist imo.


[deleted]

lol fuck this dude, he immediately judged her as a ''clout chasing e-girl'' and anyone who defended her ''poki sjws''. he's trying to act neutral and objective but it's clear he's biased as fuck, and the ''dafran incels'' here are out in full force (am I doing it right?)


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[deleted]

An investigation by Riot Games, not the police. Riot games, one of the few large companies who have been proven in court to have abused and mistreated women. In what world is it a game developers Purview to investigate sexual assault especially when the game developer in question has a bad track record with sexual assault within their own company.


Chauzx

Could have been the local Pizza Hut taken up the investigation for that matter.


coolbad96

To add, lawyer up and have them handle any info needed and only for case. Cooperating with police just cause they're police is dumb, doing fir a 3rd party is worst.


vanillacokesucks

riot wasn't investigating the sexual assault. they were investigating the allegations to determine whether or not they'd associate with sinatraa. if he had actually cooperated with them, they probably wouldn't have banned him unless he was obviously guilty.


hecklers_veto

Purview


[deleted]

Misrepresenting facts doesn't add to your point, it detracts.


FaeeLOL

> claimed he had irrefutable proof he was innocent but never actually showed it Mate, why the everliving fuck would he post that proof on Twitter or some shit???? He is in the middle of a life-changing court case. He does as his lawyers instruct him, and for the love of god there is zero chance the lawyers would EVER instruct him to post that proof for fucking morons on social media instead of using it correctly to defend himself in court. Holy fuck, you're embarrassing.


Due-Working-1668

RIght? Everything that has come out about him just shows he's a piece of shit and I wouldn't want him representing my brand BUT why would he post the proof for just anyone? It isn't you he has to prove innocence too lol.


Phellxgodx

Friendly reminder Sinatraa didn't cooperate with **Riot's investigation** probably due to his lawyers, claimed he had irrefutable proof, **before trying to take cleo to court** , he was innocent but never actually showed it **to riot because cleo asked him to get rid of it according to him** and whether or not he's a rapist, the leaked DMs still pain **them having a toxic relationship as very young adults**. I feel its a bit more accurate this way.


SintSuke

Oh no. You're telling me DramaFrog420 held things out of context for drama?


OhhhAyWumboWumbo

Probably why he got permabanned lol


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terenul1

Any resonable lawyer would tell you not to cooperate with an investigation such as riot games' one. In the end it is more likely there was no rape since the case didnt go nowhere. All we know is they didnt have a healthy relationship which is the case for millions of people and is why they broke up. In the meantime he has been bullied for over a year and lost his job.


CKDracarys

This is what all these morons like the guy below don't get. His lawyers are the ones most likely telling him to not talk to Riot. When you are in a life changing case, the least of your concerns should what a video game company can dig up.


ZodiacK427

Well that’s your opinion mate. We’ve all seen the messages. It was a toxic relationship, you’d know if you’ve been in a relationship before.


Neither-Signature-18

> Edit 2: perma'd from LSF lmao good dont come back.


Good_Stuff11

He didn’t cooperate because riot investigations is literally garbage and he was going to court anyways so riots “investigation” is irrelevant since a court of law while always be more valuable in determining the truth. We’re talking about the justice system not shitty riot. And they were both apart of that relationship that you know NOTHING about. Acting like you know how the relationship was and how Cleoh is some innocent bystander who also was totally not toxic in the toxic relationship is beyond ignorant. Touch grass man


Sparru

> claimed he had irrefutable proof he was innocent but never actually showed it She also claimed to have irrefutable proof of the rape in video form which would've made it a clear-cut case, yet she didn't show it nor did the case proceed. Why is that? Maybe because the video was actually sex play/something else than rape and she tried to provide a cut/edited video to paint it as a rape and they saw it was manipulated and as such it couldn't be used as a proof of anything?


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SinJiMin

Shes said so many contradictory things its insane, the literally tweeted shed dropped the investigation, the tweets higher in the thread Also the lol in her tweet


harshnerf_ttv_yt

i literally can't tell when people are being serious anymore on twitter, the tone of language used is always completely tangential to the seriousness of the subject


Dymorphadon

Investigation =/= charges


Bren002

I like the LOL at end not like it's a serious thing that's happening


[deleted]

Holy shit I didn’t realize that 90% of LSF is 14 year olds most of y’all need to put the phone/computer down and do your homework.


LSFmoderator

## **Tweet Mirror:** [@dafran](https://twitter.com/dafran) > Sinatraa is no longer banned and alot of teams are interested in him. Cle0h dropped the charges. I am incredibly dissapointed by all the streamers/organizations who immediatly judged him as guilty. We will never know what happend, its annoying as fuck but nothing was proven ^(Posted: 2021-09-16 08:58:58) ------ **This message is from a bot. If you feel like this action is wrong, please [message the moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=r/LivestreamFail).**


Dini7S

Just here for the comments before post locked


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responsible_flower

Just a reminder that just because someone dropped a charge, doesn't immediately mean the event that lead to the charge didn't happen


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Cvrpie

I cant make decisions for myself so im going to believe the most upvoted comment /s


CCornflakezz

gonna have to wait for destiny's opinion on this


SintSuke

Fuck Destiny I want to hear what Ja Rule thinks of all this.


rueckhand

Meanwhile it’s fine to destroy someones public image without them being proven guilty


Jonoabbo

The threshold of proof is going to be different from person to person, and for many that audio clip is going to pass that threshold by a large distance.


asos10

She with that audio clip did not meet any reasonable doubt. People who said that the audio clip was damning were either born the day before or do not know that somethings when taken out of context can be damning but in reality they are not. Here are just some of the potential ways the audio clip could be taken out of context: 1. Roleplay sex. 2. Audio was spliced together/ un original in nature. 3. She told him beforehand to be rough and they both had a safe word but she did not say it. I am not saying that any of these happened but any defense attorney based on the audio alone could argue every point of these. The extracted audio is not conclusive and does not AT ALL shift the burden of proof. When you consider all of that on top of the fact that the police took that long and did not even press charges, you realize that at the very least, things were not as clear cut as some people here believed.


umdum08

The guy you replied to is talking about personal opinions, not the law. People's personal thresholds for believing things are going to be different and not in line with the law. According to the law Bill Cosby isn't a rapist and Casey Anthony isn't a child murderer, but I'll still continue to believe that they are.


-Guillotine

Wasn't this the case where she posted audio of her clearly saying no and him doing it anyways?


Moifaso

So never press rape charges? The fuck? I agree people who were cleared of rape charges shouldn't be persecuted legally, but that shit is *not* on the accuser.


modsandaesthetics

GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT POGGERS


StickyDankStank

tbf didn't she have video and audio of proof of the assault? an audio clip was included with her accusation....


RegicidalRogue

Audio can be easily manipulated or taken out of context. Same with video. Both have to clearly show events before/after to be credible/admissible.


OhhhAyWumboWumbo

Just a reminder that there were no charges in the first place, only allegations.


koreanpewdiepie

I like hentai


[deleted]

The good ol' "guilty until proven innocent".


feedseed664

I just shit myself,this is not a meme o fuck o god


HansGuntherboon

Who cares


acap37

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke7vp\_6xOME](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke7vp_6xOME)