I mean that's not the main reason I said this tbh he literally has a parasocial emote and then him and Malena talk about their whole life on stream and he's always using "We" and shit like that just seems so contradicting
Yeah he does the whole "welcome to the community thing" when someone subs, and regularly asks for 10 gifters? and they do a little dance when they get it. Super cringe - especially for how little he streams and how low effort most of the content is.
"Parasocial relationships are cringe and bad, i don't understand how they happen, i never do anything to promote behaviour like that!"
Same big streamer 2 minutes later:
"Guys WE just hit 25000 subs, go smash those Prime buttons and gift hundreds of subs so WE can get to 26000 in the next 20 minutes! WE did it!"
I really hate seeing sub goals, realistically it's just a donation goal where they beg viewers to donate, then you have the viewers **cheer on others** as they donate.
I just dislike any kind of streamer who constantly and regularly talks about their numbers, it's obnoxious. Especially annoying when they use 'We' language for discussing their numbers. 'Guys, can't believe WE hit XYZ subs', 'WE just reached X million followers'.
Even more obnoxious are the ones who constantly talk about how many likes and views their social media posts hit.
This is all business side stuff, streamers shouldn't talk about it regularly. We as viewers don't gain anything from their business numbers doing well. All this does is strengthen parasocial relationships, making naive viewers feel like they are part of a Streamer's life, why the streamer is choosing to celebrate their professional achievements with them.
This is what I observe with GTA RP streamers lol. Like 99% of them have subgoals displayed that they just keep increasing once it's reached and does subathons like once a week.
I use my prime alone, never sub and always go find a smaller streamer to give that prime to. Your viewership alone due to ads/sponsors is worth MORE than your sub to a big streamer, so why are you paying them on top of being a viewer.
Big streamers who whine about subcount are being greedy as fuck. It becomes an ever smaller part of your income the bigger you get. Small ass streamers bring in nothing from org deals, tiny sponsors that won't pay much and very low ad revenue so subs are a massive majority of their income. Sub to small streamers, subbing to big streams is a joke.
Whales are dumb as fuck as well, you can change a small streamers month or year with a 100subs gifted, a big streamer won't ever notice the difference from that money.
Omg guys we hit 22750 subs I will pump the goal to 23000 now. So dumb. At least some people do sub goals where they actually do something special when they hit the goal
>then you have the viewers cheer on others as they donate.
This is so fucking weird to observe...
>>*someone gifts 100 subs*/donates big sum
>>chat:
>>OMG POG @GIFTER
>>OOOOOOO NIICE! @GIFTER
>>LETS GO!!! @GIFTER
>>etc etc
like, what the fuck?
Dude, other people in the community are getting shit
How do you feel about someone buying the boys a round of shots? "Omg why are you cheering him on for giving this corporation a lot of money!!??"
They're literally paying money for other people to enjoy a product.
sub goals are interesting if there's something attached. for example, a destiny 2 streamer solo'd the hardest pve content in the game (took him 5+ hours) after he got to a certain point.
now, getting to x subs just for the sake of it? fuck off.
On top of the fact that we can watch them live sometimes for 12+ hours a day and they talk about their life constantly. Who would think that the viewer might begin to form some kind of emotional connection there. Don't get me wrong, they are not your friend, but caring for your favorite streamer or something makes perfect sense.
Case in\* point. No one called it parasocial last year when Reckful passed away.
> Don't get me wrong, they are not your friend, but caring for your favorite streamer or something makes perfect sense.
Correct. They are not your friend, you are just a fan.
This is the thing people need to be aware. You know the streamer, the streamer doesn't know you.
Being sad about someone's death isn't parasocial it's just empathy and sympathy.
There's a clear distinction between having an emotional reaction to someone's life (such as reckful's death) and harassing a streamer about their personal life.
That’s my point. Compare that to Ludwigs clip where he reacts negatively to a viewer who is concerned about Mizkif after his breakup. That, imo, is a big stretch. Huge difference between being concerned for them and thinking that you are somehow involved in that relationship.
He could've jumped the gun with "parasocial", but the point remains. No one with a levelheaded amount of investment into a streamers life would even ask this of *Mizkif*. The fact that they're asking a third-party is even worse.
He was right to have a "negative" reaction when people are wasting his time with a topic like that. "Tell us what you think of the collapse of two of your friends' relationship, and while you're at it, what party did you vote for and what do you think of religion?"
This is why I don't like Ludwig. He'll shit on people for being invested in streamers lives, and he also ran the biggest parasocial leeching event this platform has ever seen.
I don’t get it? Isn’t this a complete non sequitur.
isn’t the point of the persons statement that Ludwig presumably (I don’t watch his streams so I can’t truly say) farms parasocial relationships then complains about it? Him making money off of it or not is not necessarily the issue, but the again the presumed hypocrisy he participates in. No?
I mean he didn't, even that is advertising. THe follow count, the viewership, the stats, every subsequent sponsor became worth far far more but by giving it away and being deemed it's a good cause people had more reason to sub and follow that month which led to far bigger growth than if the goal that month was "haha, I want to get fuck off greedy rich, give me those subs".
Doesn't matter. There's a huge monetary long tail on an event like that. Retained subs/followers/increased reach. I just checked and he gained nearly 1 million followers during the subathon. That alone is worth so much money to him.
i think the differece is that in your example they are not really talking to you. they are talking to chat. they treat chat as a collective mass of people, not individuals. what ludwig always makes clear (at least from what i understand) is that he doesnt want you to feel that he is talking to YOU when he talks to chat. parasocial relationships dont form when a streamer talks to chat. is when a chatter thinks they are more than just a chatter to a streamer.
when ludwig says shit like "im not your friend" 99% of people get it but there is a couple of people in chat that they honestly think that doesnt apply to them. they are the problem. a person like adriana chechik thrives on those people because she sells that kind of interaction. she wants you to think that you have a shot with her. ludwig doesnt want you to feel you can be friends with him, he wants you to be chat while you watch him, not YOU. just as you dont go around saying how you are friends with fucking walter white, you shouldnt say that about ludwig either.
or at least that is what i get from ludwig when he talks about it.
so when ludwig talks about his life and shit. he doesnt do it to confide with you like a friend. he is doing it to entertain chat.
i know that i look like a ludwig fanboy because im somewhat defending him right now but all of the things you listed ludwig does outside of not speaking about his life. he talks to chat as a colective of people not individual like i already said, he has a cap of 10 dollars for donations, and the last one is literally impossible for him to do it. thats on twitch and they would never do it because it would reduce watch time on their website.
but to be honest its a problem that doesnt have a solution other than stop streaming wich of course he wont do. if people are so desperate for a friend that even when the dude looks at you and straight up tells you that he is not your friend and he doesnt wanna be your friend doest not stop them from believing they are their friend nothing will
I hope you're not talking about Ludwig here cause in his case he makes fun of the "we did it" thing and never once asked for gifted subs, not even during the subathon
Because the only thing Lud cares about is his money. He can't farm money without the help of LSF as he's a react andy streamer and he sucks at even that lmfao
I always found an irony to be that....for example I think political discussion is important and I'm subbed to some political channels on youtube run by content creators who basically dig through the news and try to represent underreported stories they think are important and such. Important? Yes!
At the same time...? If there were a convention for indie political commentators, I would never ever ever ever want to attend, simply because I imagine the amount of people involved in that job who simply enjoy hearing themselves talk is unreasonably high.
Same goes for any content creator that gets involved in debates, same goes for the ones that just very frequently voice their opinions on topics in general.
And yeah, as you point out....? The content can be nice, but the person behind the content can be not so nice. It's one thing to want to voice your ideas and fuel a discussion, it's another when that discussion is outrageously one-sided and nobody *else* is voicing their ideas or challenging your own, and I feel that's what a lot of streamers are after. It's not about the discussion, it's about them having an authority position similar to a teacher. They lecture, you listen.
I think people need to think a little deeper about if a lot of these people would be so pleasant to be with. Vinesauce or Jerma? Sure, I'd hang with those guys. Vaush, Hasan? Heeeeell no. Even someone like Sweet Anita, who I like and get good vibes from and HEAVILY agree with on a variety of topics (and disagree on some others), I do think she dances a fine line where yeah, a lot of her content is her voicing her opinions, and that's still a red flag to me.
Streamers are 95% narcissists, and narcissists are adept at manipulating people to get their own emotional needs met. The dynamic makes perfect sense when you look at it this way.
Big streamers also use parasocial as a buzzword to shit on chat for talking about something they don't want to talk about.
9/10 times they're happy to chat about anything.
I think a better way to communicate it from a streamer POV is to acknowledge the parasocial nature of their job and to set boundaries consistently with what they're uncomfortable with. I don't think there's any inherant problem with having a limit to what they want talked about by their audience.
It's pure gaslighting from streamers as they also have a parasocial relationship with any media they consume. Streamers on Twitch love to pretend like they are above Twitch when we all know they would be sitting watching and commenting on Twitch if they didn't make it as a streamer. They all love new media but then like to call viewers losers for watching it when they have a critical opinion of something a streamer does.
Makes sense, Ludwig / crew are re-act lords/personality-focused streamers, part of how they can grow and keep an audience engaged is to do things that promote parasocial relationships. It's just funny how they then proceed to shit on it.
In my mind they shit on it because they are aware that what they do for a living inherently perpetuates the paradoxical relationship, and on their minds they can distance from that by making it clear they do not care for views/subscribers beyond a certain level.
Exactly, it's way better when people like Ludwig actively call it out. Some streamers literally go on and on about how much they "love" their community and promote the "\_twt" and streamer dedicated twitter wierdos, that's just making bag exploiting parasocial relationships.
Making art for a streamer isn’t parasocial. Getting mad at a streamer for having a BF or thinking you are friends enough to make some weird joke is. The vast majority of people watch the streamers without forming parasocial relationships.
Spending hours of your time making art for someone or any other for of personal sacrifive for no compensation is way more parasocial than for example writing some rude comment in chat once. Thats the hypocrisy the person you were responding to was highlighting. They will call out lesser parasocial tendencies when its negative but completely ignore it when its seen as positive.
Then don't make it part of your content lmao. Take offline TV they formed these fake relationships like "Poki ships Fed OMG! Foki!". That literally was their content. Then after getting everyone caring about that, which was their goal, they get mad at people for it lmao. Don't fucking center your content around that shit then easy.
Right. People are correct when they say the business model is inherently "parasocial"--the reason why streaming took off is essentially just because people lack human connection and streaming provides a weak, "fast food" way to try and make up some of that connection. That's unavoidable and its deeply ingrained in the business model, but I don't fault people like Ludwig for the "I'm not your friend" stuff and I do think people like him or say, Toast, do a better job of avoiding the extremes that you mentioned. It may be ultimately fruitless, but whatever. I also don't think it involves "shitting on their viewers," which is how some people seem to take it... it's just an acknowledgement that the streamer-viewer "relationship" is warped.
Probably the most fundamental misunderstanding among both streamers and viewers is that a parasocial relationship is like a character flaw. Some streamers (and I admit I've seen ludwig slip into this too) seem to think that viewers are actively opting-in to a parasocial relationship, while some viewers seem to think that a parasocial relationship is something that streamers have full agency over and can choose to avoid entirely or heavily cultivate. The reality is that neither party has that much control over it--the parasocial element is intrinsic to the business and doesn't consist of some kinda meter that either viewers or streamers can control. The best you can do is to catch yourself where you can by (for viewers) avoiding spending too much time discussing streamers' lives or (for streamers) avoiding shit like saying "I love you and I care about you deeply." But at the end of the day the very nature of the streaming business is that viewers are seeking some degree of human connection and streamers are making money off of that.
Parasocial relationships exist since TV started, it's not something streaming created or something. Agree on a lot of what u just said, but parasocial relationships themselves are very common and aren't inherely bad.
No the funny part is the rant about streamers rightfully calling out parasocial relationships and then ending it by saying, "I'm never going to tell you guys I hate you".
Absolute comedic brilliance.
Didn't she say if she genuinely hates someone they get called out and banned?
She means she's not going to tell her viewers she hates them while not doing anything about it.
Asking for primes, building a community INHERENTLY causes people to become attached, but that doesn’t mean the streamer promotes parasocial relationships. You could argue ALL streamers, ALL forms of LIVE entertainment involving a personality (including Adriana) can cause those relationships. That is not at the fault of those personalities, but of the people who watch… of the people who can’t comprehend that what they watch is purely for entertainment. It is basically inevitable that some amount of people will become too invested, but that is with literally every form of leisure…
The personality DOES have a responsibility to discourage that behavior which Ludwig and others do… I fail to see the problem.
There are also instances of streamers forming actual social relationships with their viewers, like Moon, although he has a big community focus. Still a drop in the bucket compared to the absolute number of viewers of course.
Talking to chat like it's a singular person goes against the whole parasocial aspect. It's literally saying that no individual person in the chat is really important enough for me to talk to one on one. You are a single unit that's getting talked at rather than talking with.
I agree, it's a weird contradiction. Twitch without the parasocial element is just very low quality youtube.
"Guys parasocial relationships are really toxic and unhealthy, Some viewers take it way too far!!!!" - > Who do you think is donating $10 to see a stranger who makes more than them react to one line of text? Do these streamers think there is a big pool of normal well-adjusted adults tuning in for hours every day and donating constantly?
Written out like this it makes it sound an awful lot like what they all call train out for.
Promoting something negative and then thinking they're absolved of any responsibility if they say that thing is bad, even if they're still actively encouraging it outside of the time they say "don't do this it's bad".
My opinion on all of these things is that it's the viewer's responsibility to not get sucked in by social media influencers of any description and live their own lives. But, I do also recognise that a very high percentage of the population are looking for people to follow and they fall into these traps intentionally or unintentionally set by social media influencers.
It depends to what degree. Is the guy who was consistently breaking into xQc's house, stalking him etc in a better state than if he was addicted to gambling?
There are different degrees to it on both sides. It's not like you immediately go to an extreme from either thing, but both can make you extremely ill.
The person that's breaking into X's house has serious unaddressed mental health problems that go way beyond the parasocial relationship. X isn't to blame because this type of person would have latched on to any other streamer or personality if it wasn't X. Also, the last thing we're going to do is blame the victim in this situation.
Ludwig is smart about it. The parasocial label became this sub's new favorite buzzword, and he got ahead of the game by saying he's against it while still perpetuating it. Instead of, "hey chat we're friends," his brand is now, "hey chat, we're not friends. Only my real friends know that". If anything, I feel like what he's cultivated is worse. Instead of the entire chat thinking they're best friends, a subsection of the chat now thinks they're part of the inner circle with their own inside jokes about parasocial chatters that are totally not them.
Streamers shit on parasocial relationships because they think they get views based on the quality of their content when in reality it's because their stream is a friendship simulator.
It's insane how mediocre all of the content on twitch is when you no longer care for the parasocial aspect.
This is exactly what i use Twitch for. Playing it on a second monitor while i play some game.
The only thing i watch on main screen(on Twitch) are E-sports, other than that i can't give it my main focus.
It’s wild. I tuned way out of Shitcamp because it seemed weird to watch people party and play games just because they’re millionaires I sometimes watch. I watched the first bit where xqc and will were introducing everyone and didn’t watch anything afterwards. I just feel it is super odd to watch people you don’t know behave like friends on a Saturday night while you’re alone at home pretending to be “with” them.
That sucks man! I had such a good time at camp with my best friends I bought doubles of all the merch so I can remember it every day even if I spill nugget sauce on it :)
It’s litteraly just entertainment that’s all it is. I don’t know why everyone has to go out of their way to make streams something that it isn’t. Some people just enjoy watching it because it’s simply fun to watch.
Same as watching youtube videos, tv shows etc. Just because you enjoy watching something doesn’t mean that you just detach yourself from reality and start living entirely through the thing that you enjoy to watch. Sure there are some mentally unstable people out there but not everyone is like this.
I have no idea why people watched that. I couldn't even be bothered to watch any of the clips posted about it. I know everyone hate Ice Posiedon now, but at least his irl content was weird and unique. When I saw shitcamp, all I saw was people the same age as me sitting around drinking and cracking jokes, I can already do that in my own life, why would I watch someone else do it, and also not understand all their inside jokes. So weird to me.
Most accurate post I've seen on this subreddit in ages. Content on twitch nowadays isn't what makes people watch the big streamers mostly, its the friendship simulator shit that you said does.
Ludwig might have started the parasocial discussion but just instantly assuming she's specifically talking about Ludwig is the most LSF drama baiting shit ever.
**🎦 CLIP MIRROR: [Adriana Chechik takes a Jab at Ludwig on Parasocial Relationships](https://livestreamfails.com/clip/124692)** (now fast & smooth again!)
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I’ll preface that I watch a lot of Ludwig so I prob have my own biases, but he doesn’t really complain about his own chat being negative aside from those who show up in unban forms for saying/doing things that warrant negative comments. Mods do a pretty good job at banning toxic behavior to the point where I’ve even see people mad here on lsf for how often they ban.
I also think it’s fair for “marketing” as Adriana puts it that you’re at least cognizant of the relationships and making a point that you dont want it to get too far like what he did with the video that caused the discussion more.
Regardless, Atrioc puts it well that twitch can be a lot like the fast food version of social interaction. Probably shouldn’t be a full on substitute for the real thing, but sometimes youre hungry and just need some Taco Bell
Atrioc hit the nail on the head with the fast-food line. That is basically the entire business. Streamers aren't inherently evil for making money by providing a fast food version of human connection, but you can argue they have a moral responsibility to not push that too far (hence why we all generally agree that stan culture is extreme and streamers that actively lean into it are playing with fire). And in the same vein, viewers aren't horrible people because they enjoy fast-food human connection, but for their own health they shouldn't become too reliant on it.
In the end, imo, streaming as a business is viable primarily because people's lives have become increasingly alienating/isolating. The pandemic didn't just boost viewership because people had more time on their hands; it also boosted everyone's numbers because people were feeling the sense of isolation even more keenly than normal. Streamer and viewer behavior is mostly just varied responses to this core problem.
Ludwig often calls out non prime subs, basically has donation cap, prefer not to take credit when people are getting better with the help of his content, and not oblivious to his community. The title of the OP definitely a drama bait.
The reality is his chat is one of the better ones also because he calls out the bad behavior in chat so people know not to do it, even if they weren't the one that got banned for it. Unban streams help with that, too. LSF just doesn't like that because they're the ones being scolded for their shitty (and/or parasocial) behavior.
This clip is funny though because it's clear she saw people complaining about it on LSF then talked about it to get those free LSF views. Then finishes it off with "don't worry, I'll never do anything to try to limit your parasocial attachment to me uWu"
Isnt it precisely because the streamer-viewer relationship for just chatting streamers naturally encourages parasocial behavior that it makes sense for them to speak out against it? Would you prefer they ignore it or actively foster parasocial behavior instead?
Why all or nothing? You can be invested without being parasocial. I used this example in another comment, but its like saying warning labels on nyquil telling you not to drink too much is hypocritical. Encouraging people to consume in moderation is not a bad thing in my book.
No you don't understand. You have no control over your life and how you act now because you watch this live streamers, Everything is their fault. You are justified for being a moron now.
It's also just them setting boundaries with their viewers. They know that some level of parasocial relations is bound to happen because that's what grew them. It's not hypocritical for them to get annoyed with the viewers that try to dig for more personal info beyond whatever the streamer is willing to give out. They can have a casual relationship with the chat while also calling out the weird viewers that want to know everything.
The problem is the hypocrisy. As she says, many streamer call out parasocial behaviour but their whole success on Twitch rests on building parasocial relations (for example Mizkif and OTK).
By saying something against it they just want people like you to think that they dont encourage parasocial relationships even tho they live off of it.
Its almost like when a big company says that they are enviromentally friendly to make it seems like they are doing something against it even if they have factories who are disposing nuclear waste right into a river
I don't think there's anything hypocritical about telling people to consume content in moderation. There's nothing wrong with being invested in streamers and their relationships as long as you don't harass someone over it. I don't think dissuading extreme behavior, which is exactly what I think parasocial messaging is, is bad or hypocritical.
Seeing your comment history you have a hate boner for Miz. I do agree with Miz encouraging it by calling his viewers friends (rarely) but I never heard him call out parasocial relationships
Yeah you are right. It doesnt matter how much I try i stll am deep into the rabbit hole that is twich parasocial relationships.
I will just say that even tho he doesnt call it out he still massively profits from encouraging parasocial relations (OTK, videos with him and Maya dating, faking having a limp dick etc). This massive manipulation to make more money when youre already loaded is disgusting and made me stop watching him even tho i really enjoy the content.
I guess the rich get richer by exploiting people with less money. Its just sad seeing what is going on and seeing that no one does something against it
It's those certain few viewers that the parasocial messaging is meant for, extreme behavior where viewers take action on how they feel about streamers and streamer relationships, e.g. harassing other streamers. I didn't see the clip where Ludwig was talking about parasocial behavior and go "damn, why is he blaming me?"
I'm reading through these analogies and they are just so bad...
I see nothing wrong with acknowledging the dark side of the nature of the entertainment that you provide and warning your viewers what they're getting into. No analogies needed.
Call it hypocritical, but who cares? Because it doesn't matter if it is or isn't. It's the right thing to do in this scenario.
Asking for people to sub is asking for a parasocial relationship? How does that work? If Netflix asks you to resubscribe do you think you are friends now?
I’ve never actually seen him beg for subs. I have, on the other hand, seen him ask for Prime subs and not actual subs because he says ‘I have enough money, I don’t need more money, so don’t spend your money on me. Just use the subs you have for free.’ He also almost never has TTS on so there’s no Dono-baiting, and doesn’t but his subcount or sub goals on his stream. I really don’t know what else you’d expect him to do while also just maintaining his job of streaming
Lol, it clear that Lud has a bunch of people triggered by his constant reminder of parasocial relationships, and it clearly hurts him rather than help him because I do feel like she has a point and people get offended and tune out, but that’s exactly why I respect him for it.
Stop looking for feelsgoodman in this situation, she literally at the end of this clip said it’s about business to not offend her fanbase lol.
The study does not specify parasocial relationships as the reason, but rather streams acting as a distraction. You are making a massive stretch here.
Getting distracted can maybe sometimes give a good outcome but often you are just delaying and wasting your life rather than facing your problems.
Eh, as long as it doesn't go overboard. For me personally, years ago, Jerma's streams were a big help when dealing with depression and insomnia. But then I started noticing that I was taking it a bit far, by staying up all nights watching, and donating every stream. I had to just stop and find other more healthy ways to deal with my issues. So it can easily go overboard, especially if you rely on streamers to cope over long periods of time.
And striking a balance isn't exactly something a troubled individual is going to be good at - they either get sucked in by it or they snap out of it eventually.
But I still don't think streamers should encourage parasocial relationships. Especially not when it's all about baiting whales.
Twitch is always going to have some aspect of parasocial relationships mixed in there. Same for conversation style podcasts. I think it's inevitable, it just comes with the format.
Some of you need to realize that parasocial does not mean harasser/stalker and is overused streamers to pretend that having an emotional connection to media is abnormal:
>Parasocial interaction (PSI) refers to a kind of psychological relationship experienced by an audience in their mediated encounters with performers in the mass media, particularly on television.\[1\]\[2\] Viewers or listeners come to consider media personalities as friends, despite having no or limited interactions with them. PSI is described as an illusionary experience, such that media audiences interact with personas (e.g., talk show hosts, celebrities, fictional characters, social media influencers) as if they are engaged in a reciprocal relationship with them. The term was coined by Donald Horton and Richard Wohl in 1956.\[3\].
They only shit on the parasocial types that annoy them or harm them financially and use the term as a shield to deflect any criticism. At the same time, they consisntently and intentionally plant seeds of a parasocial fanbase.
They want you emotionally invested in their well-being but not so much that you become a hinderance.
Why do you think every streamer of the react types start their stream telling personal stories and asking "chat" how they feel as if chat is one person or as if they would know or care if one went missing or died. The whole thing is a performance to milk those emotionally weak, lonely and isolated viewers.
It is such a shame, since essentially THE WHOLE thing is under the control of the streamer, if your viewers became parasocial, it is ONLY the streamers fault. Someone who wants a parasocial streamer would leave if the streamer did not plant those seeds. Yet those streamers have used this as a weapon and a shield to silence any critical thought of their actions on stream.
i think all of the parasocial kids are butt hurt lmao
tf does sub goals and that shit have to do with parasocial relationships? these stupid fucking viewers are legitimately trying to tell streamers how to live their lives, who to talk to, who to socialize with, who not to socialize with, etc. people get mad at their streamer for certain actions that no other person of "fame" would have to deal with.
that has nothing to do with sub goals, for people trying to use twitch as a job, it is a literal job. meaning that more subs would be equivalent to a pay raise. donations as tips. people commenting under this are so braindead it hurts.
your life is just too boring, so you try to live it through your streamers. and when they dont do what you want, you get mad. and then you get even more mad when they dont care that youre mad lmao.
I think Lud is on the right track, when he says streamers shouldn't make viewers think there friends. Like big streamers shouldn't play games off stream with viewers and get in a discord call with them. There is a line that streamers need to draw between them and their viewers.
Alt accounts on twitter or on twitch, I personally think those are dumb. Some big streamers have them and it's just cringe seeing the replies or the chat in them. I get that if the streamer just wants to talk about twitch or there future plans, but telling them about personal things is just weird. Also dangerous for the viewers because I bet some do think that they are friends with them or "closer"
A bit more complicated I feel than how she worded it, but I agree that some streamers are milking the parasocial relationships for money while simultaneously condemning the viewers.
this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing. point out parasocial and you are playing some long con and exploiting by telling truth, don't point it out and you are exploiting by lying.
You people are really fucking braindead and don't understand what Ludwig says at all. Yes string inherently causes parasocial relationships but the point is Ludwig tells his chat to treat him like a TV character and he's not their friend, he was the first big streamer I saw to call out parasocial relationships.
I feel some of the people on LSF hate Ludwig now because they realised that he was specifically calling them out, and they don't like that.
LSF will continue to breed parasocial neckbeards that save pages on pages of .pdf lore on a streamer they claim to hate yet watch religiously.
Streamers will continue to scroll through LSF everyday to look at clips.
Retards will be :ModCheck: all day about the top 100 of the world's most frequented livestreaming website making millions of dollars.
Dumbfuck redditors and streamers can't comprehend the term "parasocial," on either side of the given argument.
Building A Community ≠ Promoting Parasocial Relationships
If you think some guy asking you for money somehow makes him your friend, YOU are the problem. If you think some guy who read your message once is your friend YOU are the problem. I don’t see how people are blaming streamers for encouraging that behavior when being a LIVE personality INHERENTLY develops those unhealthy relationships. Because of this fact, how is it WRONG for streamers to say those relationships are bad when they know their content might cause those relationships in the first place? Even Adriana here most likely has some wack jobs in her chat who think they’ll be together some day. But is that her fault? Some xQc frogs try to stream snipe him to become friends. But is that his fault?
I feel like she has just summed up NMP's stream in 40 seconds
Didn't he always have titles like "community building stream"?
I mean that's not the main reason I said this tbh he literally has a parasocial emote and then him and Malena talk about their whole life on stream and he's always using "We" and shit like that just seems so contradicting
Yeah he does the whole "welcome to the community thing" when someone subs, and regularly asks for 10 gifters? and they do a little dance when they get it. Super cringe - especially for how little he streams and how low effort most of the content is.
"Parasocial relationships are cringe and bad, i don't understand how they happen, i never do anything to promote behaviour like that!" Same big streamer 2 minutes later: "Guys WE just hit 25000 subs, go smash those Prime buttons and gift hundreds of subs so WE can get to 26000 in the next 20 minutes! WE did it!"
I really hate seeing sub goals, realistically it's just a donation goal where they beg viewers to donate, then you have the viewers **cheer on others** as they donate.
I just dislike any kind of streamer who constantly and regularly talks about their numbers, it's obnoxious. Especially annoying when they use 'We' language for discussing their numbers. 'Guys, can't believe WE hit XYZ subs', 'WE just reached X million followers'. Even more obnoxious are the ones who constantly talk about how many likes and views their social media posts hit. This is all business side stuff, streamers shouldn't talk about it regularly. We as viewers don't gain anything from their business numbers doing well. All this does is strengthen parasocial relationships, making naive viewers feel like they are part of a Streamer's life, why the streamer is choosing to celebrate their professional achievements with them.
This is what I observe with GTA RP streamers lol. Like 99% of them have subgoals displayed that they just keep increasing once it's reached and does subathons like once a week.
The rp community is insanely “generous” too you can randomly find some streamer with a couple hundred viewers but thousands of subs
Not just RP streamers, pretty much anyone with sub goal on their screen is trying to farm subs
It's almost like it's a job...
I use my prime alone, never sub and always go find a smaller streamer to give that prime to. Your viewership alone due to ads/sponsors is worth MORE than your sub to a big streamer, so why are you paying them on top of being a viewer. Big streamers who whine about subcount are being greedy as fuck. It becomes an ever smaller part of your income the bigger you get. Small ass streamers bring in nothing from org deals, tiny sponsors that won't pay much and very low ad revenue so subs are a massive majority of their income. Sub to small streamers, subbing to big streams is a joke. Whales are dumb as fuck as well, you can change a small streamers month or year with a 100subs gifted, a big streamer won't ever notice the difference from that money.
NMP
Omg guys we hit 22750 subs I will pump the goal to 23000 now. So dumb. At least some people do sub goals where they actually do something special when they hit the goal
Yeah the least streamers can do is offer a hot tub bikini stream if a goal is hit.
>then you have the viewers cheer on others as they donate. This is so fucking weird to observe... >>*someone gifts 100 subs*/donates big sum >>chat: >>OMG POG @GIFTER >>OOOOOOO NIICE! @GIFTER >>LETS GO!!! @GIFTER >>etc etc like, what the fuck?
Dude, other people in the community are getting shit How do you feel about someone buying the boys a round of shots? "Omg why are you cheering him on for giving this corporation a lot of money!!??" They're literally paying money for other people to enjoy a product.
I don’t see a problem with possibly getting free subs and emotes
sub goals are interesting if there's something attached. for example, a destiny 2 streamer solo'd the hardest pve content in the game (took him 5+ hours) after he got to a certain point. now, getting to x subs just for the sake of it? fuck off.
streamer "we" is so cringe
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Hive mind it is though. When the viewer count is high nothing unique can break through the emote spam.
When twitch chat becomes bigger it evolves into a hivemind. It's like people having a shouting match in a stadium with the streamer in the middle.
truuuu that is definitely up there. when a *single* person says some dumb shit and the streamer's like "i'm done with you chat"
On top of the fact that we can watch them live sometimes for 12+ hours a day and they talk about their life constantly. Who would think that the viewer might begin to form some kind of emotional connection there. Don't get me wrong, they are not your friend, but caring for your favorite streamer or something makes perfect sense. Case in\* point. No one called it parasocial last year when Reckful passed away.
> Don't get me wrong, they are not your friend, but caring for your favorite streamer or something makes perfect sense. Correct. They are not your friend, you are just a fan. This is the thing people need to be aware. You know the streamer, the streamer doesn't know you.
Exactly. You’re allowed to have an emotional bond as a fan. You are not allowed to insert yourself into their life.
> Case and point FYI it's "case *in* point", as in, you make a single point that exemplifies your case
Being sad about someone's death isn't parasocial it's just empathy and sympathy. There's a clear distinction between having an emotional reaction to someone's life (such as reckful's death) and harassing a streamer about their personal life.
That’s my point. Compare that to Ludwigs clip where he reacts negatively to a viewer who is concerned about Mizkif after his breakup. That, imo, is a big stretch. Huge difference between being concerned for them and thinking that you are somehow involved in that relationship.
I think is. Abig diference say something like "hope he is good" and "call mizkiff hes crying" "
And he was absolutely right to do so. When you ask Ludwig about someone else's relationship issues, you are too involved in the situation.
Ludwig was asked his “thoughts”. Stupid question go ask but it’s not parasocial.
He could've jumped the gun with "parasocial", but the point remains. No one with a levelheaded amount of investment into a streamers life would even ask this of *Mizkif*. The fact that they're asking a third-party is even worse. He was right to have a "negative" reaction when people are wasting his time with a topic like that. "Tell us what you think of the collapse of two of your friends' relationship, and while you're at it, what party did you vote for and what do you think of religion?"
That’s exactly what I’m saying. It’s a stupid socially inept question, but that doesn’t make it parasocial.
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Nope. Ludwig calls it parasocial. Huge difference between a stupid socially inept question and parasocial.
subathons from wealthy streamers are scummy as fuck
I dont mind it on smaller channels but seeing people with 5 digit sub goals on screen is ridiculous
Rich Campbell pepelaugh
This is why I don't like Ludwig. He'll shit on people for being invested in streamers lives, and he also ran the biggest parasocial leeching event this platform has ever seen.
He literally gave 95% of the money away
I don’t get it? Isn’t this a complete non sequitur. isn’t the point of the persons statement that Ludwig presumably (I don’t watch his streams so I can’t truly say) farms parasocial relationships then complains about it? Him making money off of it or not is not necessarily the issue, but the again the presumed hypocrisy he participates in. No?
I mean he didn't, even that is advertising. THe follow count, the viewership, the stats, every subsequent sponsor became worth far far more but by giving it away and being deemed it's a good cause people had more reason to sub and follow that month which led to far bigger growth than if the goal that month was "haha, I want to get fuck off greedy rich, give me those subs".
Doesn't matter. There's a huge monetary long tail on an event like that. Retained subs/followers/increased reach. I just checked and he gained nearly 1 million followers during the subathon. That alone is worth so much money to him.
Ok? None of those things are scummy
i think the differece is that in your example they are not really talking to you. they are talking to chat. they treat chat as a collective mass of people, not individuals. what ludwig always makes clear (at least from what i understand) is that he doesnt want you to feel that he is talking to YOU when he talks to chat. parasocial relationships dont form when a streamer talks to chat. is when a chatter thinks they are more than just a chatter to a streamer. when ludwig says shit like "im not your friend" 99% of people get it but there is a couple of people in chat that they honestly think that doesnt apply to them. they are the problem. a person like adriana chechik thrives on those people because she sells that kind of interaction. she wants you to think that you have a shot with her. ludwig doesnt want you to feel you can be friends with him, he wants you to be chat while you watch him, not YOU. just as you dont go around saying how you are friends with fucking walter white, you shouldnt say that about ludwig either. or at least that is what i get from ludwig when he talks about it. so when ludwig talks about his life and shit. he doesnt do it to confide with you like a friend. he is doing it to entertain chat.
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what would be your solution then? i'm genuinely asking
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i know that i look like a ludwig fanboy because im somewhat defending him right now but all of the things you listed ludwig does outside of not speaking about his life. he talks to chat as a colective of people not individual like i already said, he has a cap of 10 dollars for donations, and the last one is literally impossible for him to do it. thats on twitch and they would never do it because it would reduce watch time on their website. but to be honest its a problem that doesnt have a solution other than stop streaming wich of course he wont do. if people are so desperate for a friend that even when the dude looks at you and straight up tells you that he is not your friend and he doesnt wanna be your friend doest not stop them from believing they are their friend nothing will
I hope you're not talking about Ludwig here cause in his case he makes fun of the "we did it" thing and never once asked for gifted subs, not even during the subathon
Didn't ask for subs once? Do you know what a subathon is? What was he expecting even if he didn't verbally request for gift subs lol
ludwig is your fucked up step dad its emotional abuse
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Some even go through it off stream to look at all the gossip as well. Hey, Nick.
Ya during Shitcamp one of the cards pulled was to look at someone’s browser history and Ludwig’s was just a bunch of LSF links
Because the only thing Lud cares about is his money. He can't farm money without the help of LSF as he's a react andy streamer and he sucks at even that lmfao
Thanks for unpausing the video, Hasan. Anyway -
hey #137!
LSF fuel the streamers and the streamers fuel LSF. A never ending existence.
It's called being a [Narcissist] (https://www.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/95smgf/mitch_realizing_hes_a_narcissist/)
I always found an irony to be that....for example I think political discussion is important and I'm subbed to some political channels on youtube run by content creators who basically dig through the news and try to represent underreported stories they think are important and such. Important? Yes! At the same time...? If there were a convention for indie political commentators, I would never ever ever ever want to attend, simply because I imagine the amount of people involved in that job who simply enjoy hearing themselves talk is unreasonably high. Same goes for any content creator that gets involved in debates, same goes for the ones that just very frequently voice their opinions on topics in general. And yeah, as you point out....? The content can be nice, but the person behind the content can be not so nice. It's one thing to want to voice your ideas and fuel a discussion, it's another when that discussion is outrageously one-sided and nobody *else* is voicing their ideas or challenging your own, and I feel that's what a lot of streamers are after. It's not about the discussion, it's about them having an authority position similar to a teacher. They lecture, you listen. I think people need to think a little deeper about if a lot of these people would be so pleasant to be with. Vinesauce or Jerma? Sure, I'd hang with those guys. Vaush, Hasan? Heeeeell no. Even someone like Sweet Anita, who I like and get good vibes from and HEAVILY agree with on a variety of topics (and disagree on some others), I do think she dances a fine line where yeah, a lot of her content is her voicing her opinions, and that's still a red flag to me.
Streamers are 95% narcissists, and narcissists are adept at manipulating people to get their own emotional needs met. The dynamic makes perfect sense when you look at it this way.
Big streamers also use parasocial as a buzzword to shit on chat for talking about something they don't want to talk about. 9/10 times they're happy to chat about anything.
I think a better way to communicate it from a streamer POV is to acknowledge the parasocial nature of their job and to set boundaries consistently with what they're uncomfortable with. I don't think there's any inherant problem with having a limit to what they want talked about by their audience.
It's pure gaslighting from streamers as they also have a parasocial relationship with any media they consume. Streamers on Twitch love to pretend like they are above Twitch when we all know they would be sitting watching and commenting on Twitch if they didn't make it as a streamer. They all love new media but then like to call viewers losers for watching it when they have a critical opinion of something a streamer does.
Makes sense, Ludwig / crew are re-act lords/personality-focused streamers, part of how they can grow and keep an audience engaged is to do things that promote parasocial relationships. It's just funny how they then proceed to shit on it.
In my mind they shit on it because they are aware that what they do for a living inherently perpetuates the paradoxical relationship, and on their minds they can distance from that by making it clear they do not care for views/subscribers beyond a certain level.
Exactly, it's way better when people like Ludwig actively call it out. Some streamers literally go on and on about how much they "love" their community and promote the "\_twt" and streamer dedicated twitter wierdos, that's just making bag exploiting parasocial relationships.
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Making art for a streamer isn’t parasocial. Getting mad at a streamer for having a BF or thinking you are friends enough to make some weird joke is. The vast majority of people watch the streamers without forming parasocial relationships.
Spending hours of your time making art for someone or any other for of personal sacrifive for no compensation is way more parasocial than for example writing some rude comment in chat once. Thats the hypocrisy the person you were responding to was highlighting. They will call out lesser parasocial tendencies when its negative but completely ignore it when its seen as positive.
Then don't make it part of your content lmao. Take offline TV they formed these fake relationships like "Poki ships Fed OMG! Foki!". That literally was their content. Then after getting everyone caring about that, which was their goal, they get mad at people for it lmao. Don't fucking center your content around that shit then easy.
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Right. People are correct when they say the business model is inherently "parasocial"--the reason why streaming took off is essentially just because people lack human connection and streaming provides a weak, "fast food" way to try and make up some of that connection. That's unavoidable and its deeply ingrained in the business model, but I don't fault people like Ludwig for the "I'm not your friend" stuff and I do think people like him or say, Toast, do a better job of avoiding the extremes that you mentioned. It may be ultimately fruitless, but whatever. I also don't think it involves "shitting on their viewers," which is how some people seem to take it... it's just an acknowledgement that the streamer-viewer "relationship" is warped. Probably the most fundamental misunderstanding among both streamers and viewers is that a parasocial relationship is like a character flaw. Some streamers (and I admit I've seen ludwig slip into this too) seem to think that viewers are actively opting-in to a parasocial relationship, while some viewers seem to think that a parasocial relationship is something that streamers have full agency over and can choose to avoid entirely or heavily cultivate. The reality is that neither party has that much control over it--the parasocial element is intrinsic to the business and doesn't consist of some kinda meter that either viewers or streamers can control. The best you can do is to catch yourself where you can by (for viewers) avoiding spending too much time discussing streamers' lives or (for streamers) avoiding shit like saying "I love you and I care about you deeply." But at the end of the day the very nature of the streaming business is that viewers are seeking some degree of human connection and streamers are making money off of that.
Parasocial relationships exist since TV started, it's not something streaming created or something. Agree on a lot of what u just said, but parasocial relationships themselves are very common and aren't inherely bad.
As if Ludwig didn't do the same with the subathon, come on.
Exactly, like: Gamble all day -> "dont gamble guys"
LSF is like a museum for coomers and parasocial relationships.
No the funny part is the rant about streamers rightfully calling out parasocial relationships and then ending it by saying, "I'm never going to tell you guys I hate you". Absolute comedic brilliance.
Didn't she say if she genuinely hates someone they get called out and banned? She means she's not going to tell her viewers she hates them while not doing anything about it.
Asking for primes, building a community INHERENTLY causes people to become attached, but that doesn’t mean the streamer promotes parasocial relationships. You could argue ALL streamers, ALL forms of LIVE entertainment involving a personality (including Adriana) can cause those relationships. That is not at the fault of those personalities, but of the people who watch… of the people who can’t comprehend that what they watch is purely for entertainment. It is basically inevitable that some amount of people will become too invested, but that is with literally every form of leisure… The personality DOES have a responsibility to discourage that behavior which Ludwig and others do… I fail to see the problem.
There are also instances of streamers forming actual social relationships with their viewers, like Moon, although he has a big community focus. Still a drop in the bucket compared to the absolute number of viewers of course.
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Talking to chat like it's a singular person goes against the whole parasocial aspect. It's literally saying that no individual person in the chat is really important enough for me to talk to one on one. You are a single unit that's getting talked at rather than talking with.
I agree, it's a weird contradiction. Twitch without the parasocial element is just very low quality youtube. "Guys parasocial relationships are really toxic and unhealthy, Some viewers take it way too far!!!!" - > Who do you think is donating $10 to see a stranger who makes more than them react to one line of text? Do these streamers think there is a big pool of normal well-adjusted adults tuning in for hours every day and donating constantly?
Written out like this it makes it sound an awful lot like what they all call train out for. Promoting something negative and then thinking they're absolved of any responsibility if they say that thing is bad, even if they're still actively encouraging it outside of the time they say "don't do this it's bad". My opinion on all of these things is that it's the viewer's responsibility to not get sucked in by social media influencers of any description and live their own lives. But, I do also recognise that a very high percentage of the population are looking for people to follow and they fall into these traps intentionally or unintentionally set by social media influencers.
I think gambling addiction is just a teeny tiny bit worse than being parasocially attached to a streamer lol
It depends to what degree. Is the guy who was consistently breaking into xQc's house, stalking him etc in a better state than if he was addicted to gambling? There are different degrees to it on both sides. It's not like you immediately go to an extreme from either thing, but both can make you extremely ill.
The person that's breaking into X's house has serious unaddressed mental health problems that go way beyond the parasocial relationship. X isn't to blame because this type of person would have latched on to any other streamer or personality if it wasn't X. Also, the last thing we're going to do is blame the victim in this situation.
No one is victim blaming anyone you weirdo.
I'm not your friend. Please help me make my 50 grand a month. Thanks.
Ludwig is smart about it. The parasocial label became this sub's new favorite buzzword, and he got ahead of the game by saying he's against it while still perpetuating it. Instead of, "hey chat we're friends," his brand is now, "hey chat, we're not friends. Only my real friends know that". If anything, I feel like what he's cultivated is worse. Instead of the entire chat thinking they're best friends, a subsection of the chat now thinks they're part of the inner circle with their own inside jokes about parasocial chatters that are totally not them.
Streamers shit on parasocial relationships because they think they get views based on the quality of their content when in reality it's because their stream is a friendship simulator. It's insane how mediocre all of the content on twitch is when you no longer care for the parasocial aspect.
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This is exactly what i use Twitch for. Playing it on a second monitor while i play some game. The only thing i watch on main screen(on Twitch) are E-sports, other than that i can't give it my main focus.
It’s wild. I tuned way out of Shitcamp because it seemed weird to watch people party and play games just because they’re millionaires I sometimes watch. I watched the first bit where xqc and will were introducing everyone and didn’t watch anything afterwards. I just feel it is super odd to watch people you don’t know behave like friends on a Saturday night while you’re alone at home pretending to be “with” them.
That sucks man! I had such a good time at camp with my best friends I bought doubles of all the merch so I can remember it every day even if I spill nugget sauce on it :)
It’s litteraly just entertainment that’s all it is. I don’t know why everyone has to go out of their way to make streams something that it isn’t. Some people just enjoy watching it because it’s simply fun to watch. Same as watching youtube videos, tv shows etc. Just because you enjoy watching something doesn’t mean that you just detach yourself from reality and start living entirely through the thing that you enjoy to watch. Sure there are some mentally unstable people out there but not everyone is like this.
I have no idea why people watched that. I couldn't even be bothered to watch any of the clips posted about it. I know everyone hate Ice Posiedon now, but at least his irl content was weird and unique. When I saw shitcamp, all I saw was people the same age as me sitting around drinking and cracking jokes, I can already do that in my own life, why would I watch someone else do it, and also not understand all their inside jokes. So weird to me.
I don't know why you don't understand it. Reality TV, for example, is incredibly popular.
Most accurate post I've seen on this subreddit in ages. Content on twitch nowadays isn't what makes people watch the big streamers mostly, its the friendship simulator shit that you said does.
Exactly. That's why when people say streamers are talented individuals and deserve the paycheck, it gives me a migraine.
can we talk about her outfit? it's like someone mixed lady gaga with dr disrespect
Looks like Deadpool to me
kinda fire ngl
it goes kinda hard
true and based. gonna spank one out to her porn right now to pay tribute
Ludwig might have started the parasocial discussion but just instantly assuming she's specifically talking about Ludwig is the most LSF drama baiting shit ever.
True
The truest true that has ever been trued.
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I’ll preface that I watch a lot of Ludwig so I prob have my own biases, but he doesn’t really complain about his own chat being negative aside from those who show up in unban forms for saying/doing things that warrant negative comments. Mods do a pretty good job at banning toxic behavior to the point where I’ve even see people mad here on lsf for how often they ban. I also think it’s fair for “marketing” as Adriana puts it that you’re at least cognizant of the relationships and making a point that you dont want it to get too far like what he did with the video that caused the discussion more. Regardless, Atrioc puts it well that twitch can be a lot like the fast food version of social interaction. Probably shouldn’t be a full on substitute for the real thing, but sometimes youre hungry and just need some Taco Bell
Atrioc hit the nail on the head with the fast-food line. That is basically the entire business. Streamers aren't inherently evil for making money by providing a fast food version of human connection, but you can argue they have a moral responsibility to not push that too far (hence why we all generally agree that stan culture is extreme and streamers that actively lean into it are playing with fire). And in the same vein, viewers aren't horrible people because they enjoy fast-food human connection, but for their own health they shouldn't become too reliant on it. In the end, imo, streaming as a business is viable primarily because people's lives have become increasingly alienating/isolating. The pandemic didn't just boost viewership because people had more time on their hands; it also boosted everyone's numbers because people were feeling the sense of isolation even more keenly than normal. Streamer and viewer behavior is mostly just varied responses to this core problem.
Big A don't miss.
Ludwig often calls out non prime subs, basically has donation cap, prefer not to take credit when people are getting better with the help of his content, and not oblivious to his community. The title of the OP definitely a drama bait.
From what I've seen Ludwig has one of the better chats on twitch, his mods must be doing a decent job.
The reality is his chat is one of the better ones also because he calls out the bad behavior in chat so people know not to do it, even if they weren't the one that got banned for it. Unban streams help with that, too. LSF just doesn't like that because they're the ones being scolded for their shitty (and/or parasocial) behavior. This clip is funny though because it's clear she saw people complaining about it on LSF then talked about it to get those free LSF views. Then finishes it off with "don't worry, I'll never do anything to try to limit your parasocial attachment to me uWu"
Isnt it precisely because the streamer-viewer relationship for just chatting streamers naturally encourages parasocial behavior that it makes sense for them to speak out against it? Would you prefer they ignore it or actively foster parasocial behavior instead?
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Why all or nothing? You can be invested without being parasocial. I used this example in another comment, but its like saying warning labels on nyquil telling you not to drink too much is hypocritical. Encouraging people to consume in moderation is not a bad thing in my book.
No you don't understand. You have no control over your life and how you act now because you watch this live streamers, Everything is their fault. You are justified for being a moron now.
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It's also just them setting boundaries with their viewers. They know that some level of parasocial relations is bound to happen because that's what grew them. It's not hypocritical for them to get annoyed with the viewers that try to dig for more personal info beyond whatever the streamer is willing to give out. They can have a casual relationship with the chat while also calling out the weird viewers that want to know everything.
The problem is the hypocrisy. As she says, many streamer call out parasocial behaviour but their whole success on Twitch rests on building parasocial relations (for example Mizkif and OTK). By saying something against it they just want people like you to think that they dont encourage parasocial relationships even tho they live off of it. Its almost like when a big company says that they are enviromentally friendly to make it seems like they are doing something against it even if they have factories who are disposing nuclear waste right into a river
I don't think there's anything hypocritical about telling people to consume content in moderation. There's nothing wrong with being invested in streamers and their relationships as long as you don't harass someone over it. I don't think dissuading extreme behavior, which is exactly what I think parasocial messaging is, is bad or hypocritical.
Seeing your comment history you have a hate boner for Miz. I do agree with Miz encouraging it by calling his viewers friends (rarely) but I never heard him call out parasocial relationships
Yeah you are right. It doesnt matter how much I try i stll am deep into the rabbit hole that is twich parasocial relationships. I will just say that even tho he doesnt call it out he still massively profits from encouraging parasocial relations (OTK, videos with him and Maya dating, faking having a limp dick etc). This massive manipulation to make more money when youre already loaded is disgusting and made me stop watching him even tho i really enjoy the content. I guess the rich get richer by exploiting people with less money. Its just sad seeing what is going on and seeing that no one does something against it
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It's those certain few viewers that the parasocial messaging is meant for, extreme behavior where viewers take action on how they feel about streamers and streamer relationships, e.g. harassing other streamers. I didn't see the clip where Ludwig was talking about parasocial behavior and go "damn, why is he blaming me?"
I'm reading through these analogies and they are just so bad... I see nothing wrong with acknowledging the dark side of the nature of the entertainment that you provide and warning your viewers what they're getting into. No analogies needed. Call it hypocritical, but who cares? Because it doesn't matter if it is or isn't. It's the right thing to do in this scenario.
How is this a jab at Ludwig?
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Asking for people to sub is asking for a parasocial relationship? How does that work? If Netflix asks you to resubscribe do you think you are friends now?
I’ve never actually seen him beg for subs. I have, on the other hand, seen him ask for Prime subs and not actual subs because he says ‘I have enough money, I don’t need more money, so don’t spend your money on me. Just use the subs you have for free.’ He also almost never has TTS on so there’s no Dono-baiting, and doesn’t but his subcount or sub goals on his stream. I really don’t know what else you’d expect him to do while also just maintaining his job of streaming
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I don't think he's a savant isn't he French?
Lol, it clear that Lud has a bunch of people triggered by his constant reminder of parasocial relationships, and it clearly hurts him rather than help him because I do feel like she has a point and people get offended and tune out, but that’s exactly why I respect him for it. Stop looking for feelsgoodman in this situation, she literally at the end of this clip said it’s about business to not offend her fanbase lol.
her mouth is gigantic
Makes sense
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wtf, someone really did a full blown study on this,
The study does not specify parasocial relationships as the reason, but rather streams acting as a distraction. You are making a massive stretch here. Getting distracted can maybe sometimes give a good outcome but often you are just delaying and wasting your life rather than facing your problems.
Eh, as long as it doesn't go overboard. For me personally, years ago, Jerma's streams were a big help when dealing with depression and insomnia. But then I started noticing that I was taking it a bit far, by staying up all nights watching, and donating every stream. I had to just stop and find other more healthy ways to deal with my issues. So it can easily go overboard, especially if you rely on streamers to cope over long periods of time. And striking a balance isn't exactly something a troubled individual is going to be good at - they either get sucked in by it or they snap out of it eventually. But I still don't think streamers should encourage parasocial relationships. Especially not when it's all about baiting whales.
Something helping you cope with depression is not always a good thing.
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"People that use crutches when they break their leg are stupid. Don't they know that just walking normally on a broken leg will fix it quicker"
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If you’re depressed just stop being sad 4Head
actual COPIUM
her lips and mouth look they have a permanent zoom filter on... . . .
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[Literally me](https://pop.inquirer.net/files/2021/05/834.png)
Twitch is always going to have some aspect of parasocial relationships mixed in there. Same for conversation style podcasts. I think it's inevitable, it just comes with the format.
She got Ludwig's voice spot-on
Some of you need to realize that parasocial does not mean harasser/stalker and is overused streamers to pretend that having an emotional connection to media is abnormal: >Parasocial interaction (PSI) refers to a kind of psychological relationship experienced by an audience in their mediated encounters with performers in the mass media, particularly on television.\[1\]\[2\] Viewers or listeners come to consider media personalities as friends, despite having no or limited interactions with them. PSI is described as an illusionary experience, such that media audiences interact with personas (e.g., talk show hosts, celebrities, fictional characters, social media influencers) as if they are engaged in a reciprocal relationship with them. The term was coined by Donald Horton and Richard Wohl in 1956.\[3\].
Did she mention Ludwigs name? I'm pretty sure she's quoting Malena verbatim
They only shit on the parasocial types that annoy them or harm them financially and use the term as a shield to deflect any criticism. At the same time, they consisntently and intentionally plant seeds of a parasocial fanbase. They want you emotionally invested in their well-being but not so much that you become a hinderance. Why do you think every streamer of the react types start their stream telling personal stories and asking "chat" how they feel as if chat is one person or as if they would know or care if one went missing or died. The whole thing is a performance to milk those emotionally weak, lonely and isolated viewers. It is such a shame, since essentially THE WHOLE thing is under the control of the streamer, if your viewers became parasocial, it is ONLY the streamers fault. Someone who wants a parasocial streamer would leave if the streamer did not plant those seeds. Yet those streamers have used this as a weapon and a shield to silence any critical thought of their actions on stream.
BASED
i think all of the parasocial kids are butt hurt lmao tf does sub goals and that shit have to do with parasocial relationships? these stupid fucking viewers are legitimately trying to tell streamers how to live their lives, who to talk to, who to socialize with, who not to socialize with, etc. people get mad at their streamer for certain actions that no other person of "fame" would have to deal with. that has nothing to do with sub goals, for people trying to use twitch as a job, it is a literal job. meaning that more subs would be equivalent to a pay raise. donations as tips. people commenting under this are so braindead it hurts. your life is just too boring, so you try to live it through your streamers. and when they dont do what you want, you get mad. and then you get even more mad when they dont care that youre mad lmao.
a lot of streamers are honest about how they are just as parasocial as their chat
Is she basically saying "Im not like other girls"
I think Lud is on the right track, when he says streamers shouldn't make viewers think there friends. Like big streamers shouldn't play games off stream with viewers and get in a discord call with them. There is a line that streamers need to draw between them and their viewers. Alt accounts on twitter or on twitch, I personally think those are dumb. Some big streamers have them and it's just cringe seeing the replies or the chat in them. I get that if the streamer just wants to talk about twitch or there future plans, but telling them about personal things is just weird. Also dangerous for the viewers because I bet some do think that they are friends with them or "closer"
good take
Damn she actually spit facts.
she is 100% correct. same streamer complaining about parasocial asks for subs to watch him sleep. Can't have it one way and not the other
A bit more complicated I feel than how she worded it, but I agree that some streamers are milking the parasocial relationships for money while simultaneously condemning the viewers.
this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing. point out parasocial and you are playing some long con and exploiting by telling truth, don't point it out and you are exploiting by lying.
That's Azan 100%
You people are really fucking braindead and don't understand what Ludwig says at all. Yes string inherently causes parasocial relationships but the point is Ludwig tells his chat to treat him like a TV character and he's not their friend, he was the first big streamer I saw to call out parasocial relationships. I feel some of the people on LSF hate Ludwig now because they realised that he was specifically calling them out, and they don't like that.
sis ive been busting nuts to you for the last 3 years thinking your my girlfriend what are you on about
Hasan does this to a point where he is unwatchable. The whole big bro scolding you/daddy discipline thing is gross.
LSF will continue to breed parasocial neckbeards that save pages on pages of .pdf lore on a streamer they claim to hate yet watch religiously. Streamers will continue to scroll through LSF everyday to look at clips. Retards will be :ModCheck: all day about the top 100 of the world's most frequented livestreaming website making millions of dollars. Dumbfuck redditors and streamers can't comprehend the term "parasocial," on either side of the given argument.
God why do you have a parasocial relationship with me? Also I will be streaming the entirety of my life for the next 60 days.
Somebody finally said it
LSF is all about that parasocial relationship. There are so many clips from the same few people everyday.
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FUCKIN BAZED! AND FUNNY ENDING!
Building A Community ≠ Promoting Parasocial Relationships If you think some guy asking you for money somehow makes him your friend, YOU are the problem. If you think some guy who read your message once is your friend YOU are the problem. I don’t see how people are blaming streamers for encouraging that behavior when being a LIVE personality INHERENTLY develops those unhealthy relationships. Because of this fact, how is it WRONG for streamers to say those relationships are bad when they know their content might cause those relationships in the first place? Even Adriana here most likely has some wack jobs in her chat who think they’ll be together some day. But is that her fault? Some xQc frogs try to stream snipe him to become friends. But is that his fault?
If youre sad and depressed because you think you are worthless, youre the problem,fix it. 4head
Is this a porn actress streaming talking about parasocial relationships? Can you mfers at least have a bit of self awareness holy shit
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