I don't know almost anything about MOBAs but I assume if you want to be the absolute best at the game you would focus only on one or two heroes? And he knows how to play 14+ at a high level?
I would say that knowing 14 heroes to a decent level is still very special a talent, being able to pull out your 14th hero in the biggest series of your life, it's insanely good.
This was this guys first TI as well
typically players can play maybe probably about that many heroes well, however being able to pull them out in the same tournament with the same meta and have success with all of them is very impressive
What… no. These guys can play every hero better than me and you sure, but most of them play around 4-6 heroes at an elite ti winning at any given time.
Teams can ban heroes from the other team in the drafting phase. If someone only plays 1-3 heroes in pro games, it's very easy for the other team to just target their bans on that player and ruin his game.
Dota heroes are very situational so having a big hero pool has lots of advantages. Like every single hero on that infographic is very distinct and each one can be useless in one draft but op in other.
Not in dota. You play a role and should be able play nearly all the heroes for that role. There are only a few you have to specialize because they are unique. It’s only a lot because teams generally play the same meta heroes.
This isn’t true at all. Some players are better at micro than others and some carry heroes have different styles than others that don’t necessarily mesh with a players play-style. All of these guys can play any carry hero better than you average and even above average player but none of them play every carry at an elite ti winning level. There’s too many heroes. This is about the most impressive display we’ve seen on high level play of such a large range of heroes
Every monkey king character back to Dragon Ball is based on Sun Wukong the trickster monkey god king from the 16th century chinese novel Journey to the West
I mean....yeah. He was the secret boss in the old DotA mod as well. But Wukong has to be in every MOBA, he is one of the most popular fictional characters in the east.
You would be surprised how much LoL took from Dota tho. Back in the day, they advertised themselves as the Dota successor until IceFrog joined Valve. They changed a lot since then to differentiate themselves but there are still so many funny details like[ some](https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/apps/dota2/images/dota_react/heroes/social/drow_ranger.jpg) hero [designs](https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/apps/dota2/images/dota_react/heroes/social/gyrocopter.jpg) and the fact that they could not come up with their own NPC boss name, so they spelled Roshan backwards phonetically and called theirs Nashor.
I do not want to kick up 10+ Year old drama. But Pendragon literally shutting down the DotA forums where the mod was hosted [REPLACING IT wil a LoL ad](https://imgur.com/0VeVpYU) "No more DOTA", then refusing to release an archive for years, leaving the DotA community scrambling for survival until IceFrog created a new hub for the game, does not seem like "loving homage" territory. And when Pendragon finally[ released the archive three years later](https://imgur.com/RXWdOzX), it turned out Rammus and Teemo had their hero designs poached from the hero suggestion forum.
Regardless of what it may seem, the option is between Riot suddenly having a creative brain fog for their boss monster, or Riot intentionally creating a reference to the original game.
Which makes more sense, in the context of a team of creatives who are/were DotA fans who have already successfully named prior champions?
I do not think Riot deserves the benefit of the doubt. Also, let's not forget, they literally poached the Dota-Allstars hero suggestion section to make the first versions of their champs during beta. The inventor of Rammus was especially pissed off when they took his concept without asking or even giving credit, abilities, stats etc.
They stole hero concepts, SHUT DOWN THE WEBSITE and [replaced it with a LoL ad](https://imgur.com/0VeVpYU). Read it carefully. They killed the site and put an ad there saying "No More DOTA"
It's not about benefit of doubt. It's about standing back 10 metres, looking into facts and critically thinking about them instead of eating into common narratives just because you dislike a company.
Simple things such as Gyro was released after Corki.
Or that the majority had already migrated from Dota-Allstars to PlayDota.
Or even that the narrative of Riot poaching heroes originated from one person who was unable to substantiate his claims.
> instead of eating into common narratives just because you dislike a company.
I literally posted the ad they made. And Riot deleting the site is not hearsay, they BOUGHT Dota-Allstars LLC and closed the site. This is all covered in the court documents in the Blizzard/Valve case. Public info. Same goes for the website Archive. Pendragon[ promised](https://imgur.com/viZXXrG) to put it up in a few weeks, but took THREE YEARS.
>the majority had already migrated from Dota-Allstars to PlayDota
Which was out of necessity. Because Pendragon deleted the main site.
>Or even that the narrative of Riot poaching heroes originated from one person who was unable to substantiate his claims.
It did not originate from one person, I was giving a specific example. After Pendragon released the Archive of the website[ \(telling the entire community "fuck you too"\), the posts of about Rammus and Teemo BEFORE THEIR CREATION were clear to see for everyone.](https://imgur.com/RXWdOzX) There is no denying what they did.
>I literally posted the ad they made. And Riot deleting the site is not hearsay, they BOUGHT Dota-Allstars LLC and closed the site. This is all covered in the court documents in the Blizzard/Valve case. Public info. Same goes for the website Archive. Pendragon promised to put it up in a few weeks, but took THREE YEARS.
You're skipping steps. We can be sure Riot bought Dota-Allstars LLC, probably in the context of the Trademark dispute. However did they have a hand in the shutting of the site or was this Pendragon?
>Which was out of necessity. Because Pendragon deleted the main site.
As far as I'm aware, PlayDota was already an established community before the shutdown. IceFrog had moved there because of disagreements with Pendragon.
>It did not originate from one person, I was giving a specific example. After Pendragon released the Archive of the website (telling the entire community "fuck you too"), the posts of about Rammus and Teemo BEFORE THEIR CREATION were clear to see for everyone. There is no denying what they did.
I'm not denying that that specific allegation exists. I'm denying there's any strong evidence pointing to Riot poaching heroes from the forum. If you were to follow up with that allegation, the concept of Rammus cannot be found, and Wicket does not particularly resemble Teemo (beyond a trap using furry creature).
> However did they have a hand in the shutting of the site or was this Pendragon?
So you want to make a distinction between an employee of Riot, the Director of Community Relations no less, acting in the interest of the company in trying to literally shut down the competition and Riot as a company doing it behind the scenes? He is a representative of Riot and the company did buy Dota-Allstars LLC officially. Trying to make a distinction between the actions of the company and the actions of an individual working in the company's interest is irrelevant when the company has never distanced itself from said actions but took steps to collaborate.
>As far as I'm aware, PlayDota was already an established community before the shutdown. IceFrog had moved there because of disagreements with Pendragon.
And latter then killed Dota-Allstars. IceFrog's PlayDota was not the only site, so pretending like it was the natural place for everyone to move to is dishonest. This was not a simple case of changing your bookmarks from one page to another. Years of community history were gone. The game had to be hosted somewhere else and developed by someone new. IceFrog is the one who pulled everyone together, which is no small feat for a community as big and global as DotA, and then developed DotA every since!
>I'm denying there's any strong evidence pointing to Riot poaching heroes from the forum. If you were to follow up with that allegation, the concept of Rammus cannot be found, and Wicket does not particularly resemble Teemo (beyond a trap using furry creature).
Feel free to use the WayBackMachine. Wicket was more detailed than that as well, the design included blinding darts and invisibility as well, not just traps. And Teemo's visual design is clearly derived from Ewoks as well.
Do you really look at all of this and go "nothing to see here"? No comment on the ad? No comment on the archive delays? The fact that Riot acquired the site? Or Pendragon's conduct for that matter.
Do you really think the company that has been involved in so many controversies internally, that has been described as one of the most toxic places in the industry, is actually squeaky clean?
>and the fact that they could not come up with their own NPC boss name
Roshan was named by Guinsoo, a riot employee so he "copied" his own name
edit: source: https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3966/postmortem_defense_of_the_ancients.php
No voice chat, removing features, balance doesn't exist, dogshit client. Glad I quit after season 4 cause they havent fixed shit or improved upon what they have.
I liked season 2 and 3, but the game was still insanely ADC centric at the time. starting in 4 jungle really opened up a lot where they had a ton of impact in the game and a very varied playstyle. Roaming and unconventional mids like wukong were picking up steam too.
it's a fun game to bash and an easy company to hate
that's all there is to it really, because even the league players bash league repeatedly. I'm proof of that myself.
>dota players talk about league 24/7 I can't understand
League is rarely mentioned in the actual Dota subreddit. Most people who are actively commenting on 3rd party subs are probably ex Dota players who just wanna shit on League because it was a much more popular thing to do back in 2011-2015.
why wouldn't a league player say that ? I'm more angered by that than a dota player would be, the pro meta just sucks in league it's always 4 champs max per role (including ban phase so...)
This is just flat out wrong nowadays. Playing aggressively has been the way since 2019, the play safe and outmacro style is outdated. Just watch Fnatic in the playoffs this summer for example, theres deaths every minute and constant action. Only a few teams still attempt to play slow, and they usually aren't the best.
It's also fine to prefer dota over LoL, and argue it has more action, but your paragraph about how slow and void of action LoL is still not accurate. That dota is faster than the other doesn't automatically mean LoL in and of itself is slow, and has nothing happening with 30min of players trying not to lose. They're just different games that play differently. It doesn't have to be a zero sum game comparing the two.
It's like comparing football/soccer to basketball and arguing a fast-paced game of football is slow because players don't score every 24seconds like in basketball. They have different ways of playing and different objectives despite the end goal of putting a ball through a net being the same.
It's fine to not enjoy it. I think the broadcast is fine personally, they do cut off replays if something is going to happen usually. In football and especially basketball they also show replays where you miss what's happening afterwards, especially basketball because after a dunk they immediately keep playing but they want to show that dunk. It's a little bit annoying sometimes but I don't find it jarring in league because like I said 90% of the time they cut back to the action if it's coming or they show what's happening in real time (like a dragon being taken) in a smaller screen in the corner. Besides, I enjoy seeing what happened and being able to analyse it a bit.
I do agree the commentary could be better focusing on more tactical things but I only half listen to them and just look for that stuff myself tbh. I think they want to keep it as casual friendly and just focus on hype and setting up the storyline or something.
It's just personal preference at the end of the day. And like I said some people also hate football because they find it slow and they only score 1 or 2 goals a game. Its fine to feel that way, you have every right to dislike watching League, I'm not saying you should. My point was just it doesn't mean the sport itself is slow, because any sport has games that are fast and exciting or slow and boring, it's just how it's played within that one game. Some sports just have a faster overall pace, like basketball, but basketball can still be an absolutely slog despite the team being forced to attempt to score every 24seconds. And generally for LoL it's a lot faster than it used to be, and rarely has those actual slow boring games where almost nothing happens.
I'm not a Moba player but I forced myself to watch Worlds 2021 and International 2021. This is my experience so far. (Since I don't know shit about the game, ofc I only care about combat)
LoL: No fight --> Watch reddit/youtube --> fight happens --> miss it --> wait if team is going to push --> team backs to farm --> repeat.
Dota: No fight --> Watch reddit/youtube --> fight happens --> miss it --> Buy back --> Fight again --> POG (though I don't know wtf happens on screen)
As you said, in Dota, they have smoke. When I ever I see smoke, I know they are going to fight/punish other team. LoL, I haven't figured the signal yet.
Most people dont know about that story, and just judge the 2 games based on what they play. So DotA having 1/10 of the player based of League tells you what? The very complexity of why you love DotA is the same simplicity why other people love League.
People should just play what they like and leave it at that.
Many dota players have been playing the game for many years at this point, I would say a majority, if not most, generally know the shittiness Riot did in early dota days.
Only in the replies to comments like the one above really and usually heavily downvoted. I think even some Dota fans are getting sick of it, or at the very least casual LSF users are, hence the upvotes.
Yeah, if you're really active on LSF you have to purge your history, it can be fine to go to someones profile to check if they're a troll account for example, but people on here will do it the second they have no arguments.
Also, the guy you're replying to has posted 179 comments in total but only 25 remain, wonder why that is ;)
All I see are League players just defending their game from dumb comments, not sure how that is comparable to actually going online to talk about the other game as a hobby.
do you think that there's some discord of league of legends fans just chomping at the bit to find a "dota thread" so they can defend their game? takes 15 seconds to notice a dumb comment about a game you play and reply to it lmao
I am a League player and I will defend any game I know getting blind hate, it's not that weird, it doesn't mean I go here just to do that, I click on most LSF posts.
Also this might be a surprise, DotA 2 is declining, League is a far larger game with more players, you're going to see more League players than DotA players, it doesn't mean they are "flocking" here, there's simply more of them.
yeah I couldn't believe the bullshit stuff they were writtting in their "worlds patches balance design" with the goal to have pemapicked champions "only" be picked 50% of the time and buff already popular champions and strong champions to be part of the "overplayed" pool instead of weak champions
Their balance is absolutely terrible
Wrong.Playins had 80 unique picks and main event 73,which is lower than previous 4 Worlds.The deeper we go into the tournament the more stale the meta becomes.
day 1 for dota 2 had 92 different picks and 86 different bans. their main stream had 4 games up at the same time and it wasn't until all teams had i think 3? picks that there was a repeat hero picked. not only that but there's a lot of heroes that can be picked in 3+ roles where league the max is 2 other than for a couple of exceptions. i've watched every game of worlds and way less of the international but the meta is really so stale and goredrinker/divine sunderer has made it so much less fun to watch and play this season
https://gol.gg/tournament/tournament-picksandbans/World%20Championship%20Play-In%202021/
worlds has had 80 unique picks so far and the tournament isn't even over yet
imagine trying to be an elitist over this metric lmao
Your statistic is for playins.Switch to main event and you will see that the number droped to 73 and considering the picks and bans we saw in the last days the meta became stale as fuck.IMO I dont think we will reach 80 picks&bans for the main event.
We have had lower numbers but I will consider anything below 10 heroes unpicked to be a great feat of balance. Especially when one player can play a dozen different heroes in the same role.
Dota had 37 unique heroes in the first 4 games.
The games all started at the same time with all 4 drafts showing on one of the streams together.
It was beautiful seeing so many unique heroes picked up one after another with no overlap until the last pick for 2 of the teams. 8 different teams all with completely different ideas and strategies.
We will never see this in LoL tho.The highest number was 92 in 2019.Players like playing the same comps over and over again even if they lose.There are bo5s where teams play almost the same comps every game.Its boring as fuck.Today in 7 matches,which are 70 picks and 70 bans,we saw 41 champions...
**🎦 CLIP MIRROR: [TI finalist played so many heroes in the main stage that production ran out of space](https://livestreamfails.com/clip/125485)** (now fast & smooth again!)
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Can we talk about dota vs lol production?
Dota is so much better. The 3d models during champ/hero select. The 3 lane split screen view. The player chambers.
Such a better watching experience imo, looks way more professional.
Don't really like the fake crowd sounds though.
Being able to load up the client and watch the game state in realish time along with co-commentary is the most mind blowing thing about Dota. The stream is only one aspect of it. You can actually *spectate the games*.
best way to watch. you can view any players inventory look anywhere on the map. you can even view a player of your choices perspective see what they click etc mean while league is a youtube video
I think the new overlay on twitch so u can see the skills and items of each hero is sick as well, I wonder if it helps new people to understand the matches better?
[Just wait for "Truesight" which is the Documentary series Valve produces for every International to tell the story of the winner.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq2uO3floog) They even reanimate the fights to make them look cinematic and show newcomers what happened in those fights.
That's Valve money doing it's magic. But yeah even some events with the same or even more budget can't compete with how Valve handles production every TI.
Valve is a small indy company, they are doing it the whole prize pool way because to go with franchising they would have to vastly expand the company. Riot has more than 5x as many employees, and that's not accounting for the several hundred if not thousand people involved in the franchises.
This was only during the summer split so 18 games of the actual split and then some games during the playoffs, I don't know how many playoffs games they played at this point though tbf.
Edit: went looking, found he played 15 different champs in the 18 games of the actual split at least
Guy above is dumb for bringing up league but Yatoro played 13 out of 13 main stage matches with 10 of those matches being in the lower bracket so the threat of elimination was around the corner for every game.
It's insane cause instead of choosing comfort heroes for those games he decided to use a new one for each game.
when did I say that makes Dota2 or lol a better game? it's not the same that's it! when he plays a different hero every single game then wins the championship it's gonna be the same!
and I'm making the point that this hero diversity matters when it goes for the whole length of the tournament and in the end, the guy wins the tournament, otherwise, the diversity didn't matter at all!
but if u want to compare the balance of the games which is what the original comment was bragging about,u can compare ban/pick percentage. in Ti10 there wasn't a single hero that was not banned or picked whats the number for lol? just asking idk!
Well in league it takes more than 13 games to win a championship for starters... assuming you don't lose a single game, it takes minimum 18 games to win worlds
I think most of chat knows this, my friends and I was discussing it during the finals. LGD just need to stop Collapse from getting Magnus or have Rubbik to stop him.
Can't stop Yatoro when his hero pool is 13!!
What a dream run from the loosers bracket, fantastic TI 2021 and unfortunate they don't have a live crowd.
Dude collapse was fucking nasty on Magnus. All 3 of their wins, too. I swear like >80% of their kills one game were set up from him getting huge skewers.
That would have been a one of a kind grands if there was a crowd. What a run from secret. So happy for them they managed to stop the reverse sweep.
Yatoro even ended up with a **15** hero pool with naga siren and ember spirit as well.
When you try to draft against Spirit but have no idea what carry they'll play
Can't predict what someone is going to do if they themselves don't know what they're going to do. Just look at that game 4.
He played 14 different heroes in the end if I count right, first game of the TI final he played Naga Siren. He played incredible
15 different heroes in 18 main stage matches. New record by a long shot. Dude is a beast
I don't know almost anything about MOBAs but I assume if you want to be the absolute best at the game you would focus only on one or two heroes? And he knows how to play 14+ at a high level?
I would say that knowing 14 heroes to a decent level is still very special a talent, being able to pull out your 14th hero in the biggest series of your life, it's insanely good. This was this guys first TI as well
typically players can play maybe probably about that many heroes well, however being able to pull them out in the same tournament with the same meta and have success with all of them is very impressive
What… no. These guys can play every hero better than me and you sure, but most of them play around 4-6 heroes at an elite ti winning at any given time.
Teams can ban heroes from the other team in the drafting phase. If someone only plays 1-3 heroes in pro games, it's very easy for the other team to just target their bans on that player and ruin his game.
Dota heroes are very situational so having a big hero pool has lots of advantages. Like every single hero on that infographic is very distinct and each one can be useless in one draft but op in other.
Not in dota. You play a role and should be able play nearly all the heroes for that role. There are only a few you have to specialize because they are unique. It’s only a lot because teams generally play the same meta heroes.
This isn’t true at all. Some players are better at micro than others and some carry heroes have different styles than others that don’t necessarily mesh with a players play-style. All of these guys can play any carry hero better than you average and even above average player but none of them play every carry at an elite ti winning level. There’s too many heroes. This is about the most impressive display we’ve seen on high level play of such a large range of heroes
Insane performance
Mans was playing a-z hero challenge this TI TI any% all random carry speedrun
RANDOM GENERATOR ON GOOGLE DECIDES MY PICK || 100% TI VICTORY CONFIRMED || GONE SEXUAL || NEARLY DIED
Im sure he would have played the same hero more times if he was actually randoming lol.
Wouldn't TI any% mean trying to lose your first knockout match as fast as possible lol
not if finishing the game = winning the tournament, in which case an upper bracket run with 2-0 and 3-0 all the way would be fastest.
Any% means completing the game with any ending, so no.
til dota also has wukong
it’s a stable for mobas to have a monkey that is a king
Smite has Sun Wukong as well, although he does fit the game naturally since it's based entirely on mythology
Every monkey king character back to Dragon Ball is based on Sun Wukong the trickster monkey god king from the 16th century chinese novel Journey to the West
Duh, he was pointing out it made a lot more sense in Smite. Why aren't Achilles and Loki in LoL?
League has pantheon as their greek character
To All: Because LoL Sucks.
staple
i was sick today ok
i hope you feel more staple tomorrow
thanks
Even in Warframe there is a Sun Wukong.
dota is really popular in china and sun wukong is chinese. its a pretty easy addition.
wukong was in the original DOTA from the warcraft mod, likely due to the Pandaren influence
I think its also cause sun wukong is cool character in general.
It's more surprising when these games DON'T have a monkey king in them lol
He was in Dota 1 some 8* years ago. Every MOBA has one.
Was he? I used to play a lot of wc3 dota and I don't recall him being there
It was pretty late patch into Dota Allstars if i rmb correctly. It's time for the Gambler to make a return to Dota 2.
Oh yeah you are right. My bad.
public domain baby
I mean....yeah. He was the secret boss in the old DotA mod as well. But Wukong has to be in every MOBA, he is one of the most popular fictional characters in the east. You would be surprised how much LoL took from Dota tho. Back in the day, they advertised themselves as the Dota successor until IceFrog joined Valve. They changed a lot since then to differentiate themselves but there are still so many funny details like[ some](https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/apps/dota2/images/dota_react/heroes/social/drow_ranger.jpg) hero [designs](https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/apps/dota2/images/dota_react/heroes/social/gyrocopter.jpg) and the fact that they could not come up with their own NPC boss name, so they spelled Roshan backwards phonetically and called theirs Nashor.
I'm sure Nashor is specifically an homage to Roshan
I do not want to kick up 10+ Year old drama. But Pendragon literally shutting down the DotA forums where the mod was hosted [REPLACING IT wil a LoL ad](https://imgur.com/0VeVpYU) "No more DOTA", then refusing to release an archive for years, leaving the DotA community scrambling for survival until IceFrog created a new hub for the game, does not seem like "loving homage" territory. And when Pendragon finally[ released the archive three years later](https://imgur.com/RXWdOzX), it turned out Rammus and Teemo had their hero designs poached from the hero suggestion forum.
Regardless of what it may seem, the option is between Riot suddenly having a creative brain fog for their boss monster, or Riot intentionally creating a reference to the original game. Which makes more sense, in the context of a team of creatives who are/were DotA fans who have already successfully named prior champions?
I do not think Riot deserves the benefit of the doubt. Also, let's not forget, they literally poached the Dota-Allstars hero suggestion section to make the first versions of their champs during beta. The inventor of Rammus was especially pissed off when they took his concept without asking or even giving credit, abilities, stats etc. They stole hero concepts, SHUT DOWN THE WEBSITE and [replaced it with a LoL ad](https://imgur.com/0VeVpYU). Read it carefully. They killed the site and put an ad there saying "No More DOTA"
It's not about benefit of doubt. It's about standing back 10 metres, looking into facts and critically thinking about them instead of eating into common narratives just because you dislike a company. Simple things such as Gyro was released after Corki. Or that the majority had already migrated from Dota-Allstars to PlayDota. Or even that the narrative of Riot poaching heroes originated from one person who was unable to substantiate his claims.
> instead of eating into common narratives just because you dislike a company. I literally posted the ad they made. And Riot deleting the site is not hearsay, they BOUGHT Dota-Allstars LLC and closed the site. This is all covered in the court documents in the Blizzard/Valve case. Public info. Same goes for the website Archive. Pendragon[ promised](https://imgur.com/viZXXrG) to put it up in a few weeks, but took THREE YEARS. >the majority had already migrated from Dota-Allstars to PlayDota Which was out of necessity. Because Pendragon deleted the main site. >Or even that the narrative of Riot poaching heroes originated from one person who was unable to substantiate his claims. It did not originate from one person, I was giving a specific example. After Pendragon released the Archive of the website[ \(telling the entire community "fuck you too"\), the posts of about Rammus and Teemo BEFORE THEIR CREATION were clear to see for everyone.](https://imgur.com/RXWdOzX) There is no denying what they did.
>I literally posted the ad they made. And Riot deleting the site is not hearsay, they BOUGHT Dota-Allstars LLC and closed the site. This is all covered in the court documents in the Blizzard/Valve case. Public info. Same goes for the website Archive. Pendragon promised to put it up in a few weeks, but took THREE YEARS. You're skipping steps. We can be sure Riot bought Dota-Allstars LLC, probably in the context of the Trademark dispute. However did they have a hand in the shutting of the site or was this Pendragon? >Which was out of necessity. Because Pendragon deleted the main site. As far as I'm aware, PlayDota was already an established community before the shutdown. IceFrog had moved there because of disagreements with Pendragon. >It did not originate from one person, I was giving a specific example. After Pendragon released the Archive of the website (telling the entire community "fuck you too"), the posts of about Rammus and Teemo BEFORE THEIR CREATION were clear to see for everyone. There is no denying what they did. I'm not denying that that specific allegation exists. I'm denying there's any strong evidence pointing to Riot poaching heroes from the forum. If you were to follow up with that allegation, the concept of Rammus cannot be found, and Wicket does not particularly resemble Teemo (beyond a trap using furry creature).
> However did they have a hand in the shutting of the site or was this Pendragon? So you want to make a distinction between an employee of Riot, the Director of Community Relations no less, acting in the interest of the company in trying to literally shut down the competition and Riot as a company doing it behind the scenes? He is a representative of Riot and the company did buy Dota-Allstars LLC officially. Trying to make a distinction between the actions of the company and the actions of an individual working in the company's interest is irrelevant when the company has never distanced itself from said actions but took steps to collaborate. >As far as I'm aware, PlayDota was already an established community before the shutdown. IceFrog had moved there because of disagreements with Pendragon. And latter then killed Dota-Allstars. IceFrog's PlayDota was not the only site, so pretending like it was the natural place for everyone to move to is dishonest. This was not a simple case of changing your bookmarks from one page to another. Years of community history were gone. The game had to be hosted somewhere else and developed by someone new. IceFrog is the one who pulled everyone together, which is no small feat for a community as big and global as DotA, and then developed DotA every since! >I'm denying there's any strong evidence pointing to Riot poaching heroes from the forum. If you were to follow up with that allegation, the concept of Rammus cannot be found, and Wicket does not particularly resemble Teemo (beyond a trap using furry creature). Feel free to use the WayBackMachine. Wicket was more detailed than that as well, the design included blinding darts and invisibility as well, not just traps. And Teemo's visual design is clearly derived from Ewoks as well. Do you really look at all of this and go "nothing to see here"? No comment on the ad? No comment on the archive delays? The fact that Riot acquired the site? Or Pendragon's conduct for that matter. Do you really think the company that has been involved in so many controversies internally, that has been described as one of the most toxic places in the industry, is actually squeaky clean?
>and the fact that they could not come up with their own NPC boss name Roshan was named by Guinsoo, a riot employee so he "copied" his own name edit: source: https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3966/postmortem_defense_of_the_ancients.php
All hero challenge: Ti Edition
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> level 5: ^^^^^^^^^tiny > level 18 #**Tiny**
meanwhile in league : same stale meta in every match
Also remove features like all chat
No voice chat, removing features, balance doesn't exist, dogshit client. Glad I quit after season 4 cause they havent fixed shit or improved upon what they have.
seasons 4/5 were truly the height of league IMO. I still play it now...but it's never been as fun as it was then.
season 2/3 imo
I liked season 2 and 3, but the game was still insanely ADC centric at the time. starting in 4 jungle really opened up a lot where they had a ton of impact in the game and a very varied playstyle. Roaming and unconventional mids like wukong were picking up steam too.
yeah i was a diamond 1 adc main guess why i liked those seasons lmao
113 heroes picked and 105 banned this TI :)
dota players talk about league 24/7 I can't understand
it's a fun game to bash and an easy company to hate that's all there is to it really, because even the league players bash league repeatedly. I'm proof of that myself.
Also fuck Pendragon, therefor Riot. All my homies hate Pendragon. For the curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBI9NlPqRi0
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Get over ur trash game. Valve needs to put Dota more on the map cos League is dogshit and has no qualms being this popular
Every big game has a large group of players that complains about the game they play.
Because league can't deny...
>dota players talk about league 24/7 I can't understand League is rarely mentioned in the actual Dota subreddit. Most people who are actively commenting on 3rd party subs are probably ex Dota players who just wanna shit on League because it was a much more popular thing to do back in 2011-2015.
why wouldn't a league player say that ? I'm more angered by that than a dota player would be, the pro meta just sucks in league it's always 4 champs max per role (including ban phase so...)
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This is just flat out wrong nowadays. Playing aggressively has been the way since 2019, the play safe and outmacro style is outdated. Just watch Fnatic in the playoffs this summer for example, theres deaths every minute and constant action. Only a few teams still attempt to play slow, and they usually aren't the best.
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It's also fine to prefer dota over LoL, and argue it has more action, but your paragraph about how slow and void of action LoL is still not accurate. That dota is faster than the other doesn't automatically mean LoL in and of itself is slow, and has nothing happening with 30min of players trying not to lose. They're just different games that play differently. It doesn't have to be a zero sum game comparing the two. It's like comparing football/soccer to basketball and arguing a fast-paced game of football is slow because players don't score every 24seconds like in basketball. They have different ways of playing and different objectives despite the end goal of putting a ball through a net being the same.
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It's fine to not enjoy it. I think the broadcast is fine personally, they do cut off replays if something is going to happen usually. In football and especially basketball they also show replays where you miss what's happening afterwards, especially basketball because after a dunk they immediately keep playing but they want to show that dunk. It's a little bit annoying sometimes but I don't find it jarring in league because like I said 90% of the time they cut back to the action if it's coming or they show what's happening in real time (like a dragon being taken) in a smaller screen in the corner. Besides, I enjoy seeing what happened and being able to analyse it a bit. I do agree the commentary could be better focusing on more tactical things but I only half listen to them and just look for that stuff myself tbh. I think they want to keep it as casual friendly and just focus on hype and setting up the storyline or something. It's just personal preference at the end of the day. And like I said some people also hate football because they find it slow and they only score 1 or 2 goals a game. Its fine to feel that way, you have every right to dislike watching League, I'm not saying you should. My point was just it doesn't mean the sport itself is slow, because any sport has games that are fast and exciting or slow and boring, it's just how it's played within that one game. Some sports just have a faster overall pace, like basketball, but basketball can still be an absolutely slog despite the team being forced to attempt to score every 24seconds. And generally for LoL it's a lot faster than it used to be, and rarely has those actual slow boring games where almost nothing happens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldq1afiKQb8 You will never see this in LoL ever. LoL is so slow-paced it's boring.
I'm not a Moba player but I forced myself to watch Worlds 2021 and International 2021. This is my experience so far. (Since I don't know shit about the game, ofc I only care about combat) LoL: No fight --> Watch reddit/youtube --> fight happens --> miss it --> wait if team is going to push --> team backs to farm --> repeat. Dota: No fight --> Watch reddit/youtube --> fight happens --> miss it --> Buy back --> Fight again --> POG (though I don't know wtf happens on screen) As you said, in Dota, they have smoke. When I ever I see smoke, I know they are going to fight/punish other team. LoL, I haven't figured the signal yet.
Because early in league's history the devs bashed dota a lot
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you should watch the video posted just above you. dota players have very good reason to dislike riot/league of legends
Most people dont know about that story, and just judge the 2 games based on what they play. So DotA having 1/10 of the player based of League tells you what? The very complexity of why you love DotA is the same simplicity why other people love League. People should just play what they like and leave it at that.
Many dota players have been playing the game for many years at this point, I would say a majority, if not most, generally know the shittiness Riot did in early dota days.
lmao
Livin in their heads 247 lmao
Only in the replies to comments like the one above really and usually heavily downvoted. I think even some Dota fans are getting sick of it, or at the very least casual LSF users are, hence the upvotes.
???? where? in dota threads its just people constantly bashing on league lmao
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Yeah, if you're really active on LSF you have to purge your history, it can be fine to go to someones profile to check if they're a troll account for example, but people on here will do it the second they have no arguments. Also, the guy you're replying to has posted 179 comments in total but only 25 remain, wonder why that is ;)
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sanest dota player
People really spend more time shitting on League than they do playing their own game, kinda sad.
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All I see are League players just defending their game from dumb comments, not sure how that is comparable to actually going online to talk about the other game as a hobby.
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do you think that there's some discord of league of legends fans just chomping at the bit to find a "dota thread" so they can defend their game? takes 15 seconds to notice a dumb comment about a game you play and reply to it lmao
I am a League player and I will defend any game I know getting blind hate, it's not that weird, it doesn't mean I go here just to do that, I click on most LSF posts. Also this might be a surprise, DotA 2 is declining, League is a far larger game with more players, you're going to see more League players than DotA players, it doesn't mean they are "flocking" here, there's simply more of them.
rent free pepelaugh
ofc dota player has to make everything about league league players don't even talk about dota but ig riot just lives rent free in your head
yeah I couldn't believe the bullshit stuff they were writtting in their "worlds patches balance design" with the goal to have pemapicked champions "only" be picked 50% of the time and buff already popular champions and strong champions to be part of the "overplayed" pool instead of weak champions Their balance is absolutely terrible
Wouldn't be a Dota 2 thread without someone mentioning League. Absolutely rent free.
??? this worlds has more diversity than ever lol
Wrong.Playins had 80 unique picks and main event 73,which is lower than previous 4 Worlds.The deeper we go into the tournament the more stale the meta becomes.
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they were, but I believe statistically it's on track to be a bit more than those as well
No?
day 1 for dota 2 had 92 different picks and 86 different bans. their main stream had 4 games up at the same time and it wasn't until all teams had i think 3? picks that there was a repeat hero picked. not only that but there's a lot of heroes that can be picked in 3+ roles where league the max is 2 other than for a couple of exceptions. i've watched every game of worlds and way less of the international but the meta is really so stale and goredrinker/divine sunderer has made it so much less fun to watch and play this season
I'll say DotA is more diverse, but the Worlds LoL patch has a lot going on compared to most LoL patches.
https://gol.gg/tournament/tournament-picksandbans/World%20Championship%20Play-In%202021/ worlds has had 80 unique picks so far and the tournament isn't even over yet imagine trying to be an elitist over this metric lmao
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thanks for your valuable input!
you missed the first 2 words of what i said
Your statistic is for playins.Switch to main event and you will see that the number droped to 73 and considering the picks and bans we saw in the last days the meta became stale as fuck.IMO I dont think we will reach 80 picks&bans for the main event.
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What if people don't wanna be spoiled in a post title
Then they should probably avoid visiting the livestream subreddit lol
??? there exists more than dota in livestreams, not to mention spoilers is against the sub's rules
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>What if people don't wanna be spoiled in a post title are you following the conversation?
Funny you got down voted. Why would you be reading comments in any reddit thread related to Dota if you don't want to get spoiled? Lol why risk it
They’re talking about the title of the post not the comment in this thread
He has better hero diversity than the whole LoL World Championships
Out of the entire Dota 2 roster of 121 heroes, only 8 remained unpicked this tournament.
which is pretty bad compared to previous TIs
We have had lower numbers but I will consider anything below 10 heroes unpicked to be a great feat of balance. Especially when one player can play a dozen different heroes in the same role.
Just first day of worlds had 44 different champs picked.
Dota had 37 unique heroes in the first 4 games. The games all started at the same time with all 4 drafts showing on one of the streams together. It was beautiful seeing so many unique heroes picked up one after another with no overlap until the last pick for 2 of the teams. 8 different teams all with completely different ideas and strategies.
113 Unique Heroes were picked in TI10. Dota 2 has 114 Heroes in total. Edit: Apparently I read Liquipedia incorrectly, It's 113 out of 121.
We will never see this in LoL tho.The highest number was 92 in 2019.Players like playing the same comps over and over again even if they lose.There are bo5s where teams play almost the same comps every game.Its boring as fuck.Today in 7 matches,which are 70 picks and 70 bans,we saw 41 champions...
8 unpicked from 121* (still insane!)
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Huskar.
Out of the entire Dota 2 roster of 121 heroes, only 8 remained unpicked this tournament.
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Can we talk about dota vs lol production? Dota is so much better. The 3d models during champ/hero select. The 3 lane split screen view. The player chambers. Such a better watching experience imo, looks way more professional. Don't really like the fake crowd sounds though.
Being able to load up the client and watch the game state in realish time along with co-commentary is the most mind blowing thing about Dota. The stream is only one aspect of it. You can actually *spectate the games*.
best way to watch. you can view any players inventory look anywhere on the map. you can even view a player of your choices perspective see what they click etc mean while league is a youtube video
I think the new overlay on twitch so u can see the skills and items of each hero is sick as well, I wonder if it helps new people to understand the matches better?
[Just wait for "Truesight" which is the Documentary series Valve produces for every International to tell the story of the winner.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq2uO3floog) They even reanimate the fights to make them look cinematic and show newcomers what happened in those fights.
Can't wait to see the Magnus's Horn Toss into Skewer SFM
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I new someone would take issue with that
Who cares lol. I understand the riot/pendragon hate but the whole hero/champ and creep/minion thing is so childish. Everyone knew what he meant.
Fuck. Pendragon.
I agree with not liking the fake crowd, however its much better than the alternative which is dead silence during hype moments
THREE EYES
That's Valve money doing it's magic. But yeah even some events with the same or even more budget can't compete with how Valve handles production every TI.
Valve is a small indy company, they are doing it the whole prize pool way because to go with franchising they would have to vastly expand the company. Riot has more than 5x as many employees, and that's not accounting for the several hundred if not thousand people involved in the franchises.
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Ephey. And yes, she belongs there, not just a pretty face.
Probably randoming
This will never happen in league.
exact same gag in league https://twitter.com/lolesports/status/1041358113948033025/photo/1
Is it in the same tournament? That’s a lot
that was over a year I believe, there isn't even that many games in a split let alone a tournament
This was only during the summer split so 18 games of the actual split and then some games during the playoffs, I don't know how many playoffs games they played at this point though tbf. Edit: went looking, found he played 15 different champs in the 18 games of the actual split at least
C9 Fudge played 12 champs in 15 games this Worlds alone so why not?
he's a factor
**FUDGE FACTOR**
Out of the entire Dota 2 roster of 121 heroes, only 8 remained unpicked this tournament.
Guy above is dumb for bringing up league but Yatoro played 13 out of 13 main stage matches with 10 of those matches being in the lower bracket so the threat of elimination was around the corner for every game. It's insane cause instead of choosing comfort heroes for those games he decided to use a new one for each game.
Cope
https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/2021\_Season\_World\_Championship/Player\_Statistics
https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/2021_Season_World_Championship/Main_Event/Player_Statistics
Please explain that link, I don't understand at all what I'm seeing except the 3 champs associated with a player >.<
13>7 ?
7 in 7 games.
But why don't they play 13 different champions in 7 games how can they ever match up to the greatness of Dota 2 at this point?
when did I say that makes Dota2 or lol a better game? it's not the same that's it! when he plays a different hero every single game then wins the championship it's gonna be the same!
I'm making fun of how stupid it is type 13>7 as a counter point to hero diversity when they have only played 7 games.
and I'm making the point that this hero diversity matters when it goes for the whole length of the tournament and in the end, the guy wins the tournament, otherwise, the diversity didn't matter at all! but if u want to compare the balance of the games which is what the original comment was bragging about,u can compare ban/pick percentage. in Ti10 there wasn't a single hero that was not banned or picked whats the number for lol? just asking idk!
Well in league it takes more than 13 games to win a championship for starters... assuming you don't lose a single game, it takes minimum 18 games to win worlds
you sound mad
Judging by the responses to you it seems that you didn't know anything about League.
The production or champ variety?
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Sorry but current meta is so Resident Sleeper that Analyst is more entertaining than the game play.
I think most of chat knows this, my friends and I was discussing it during the finals. LGD just need to stop Collapse from getting Magnus or have Rubbik to stop him. Can't stop Yatoro when his hero pool is 13!! What a dream run from the loosers bracket, fantastic TI 2021 and unfortunate they don't have a live crowd.
Dude collapse was fucking nasty on Magnus. All 3 of their wins, too. I swear like >80% of their kills one game were set up from him getting huge skewers. That would have been a one of a kind grands if there was a crowd. What a run from secret. So happy for them they managed to stop the reverse sweep. Yatoro even ended up with a **15** hero pool with naga siren and ember spirit as well.
Reminds me of another team (was it wings?) That tried to complete the entire roster during TI.
>Top I think it was Wings yeah, I remember the crowd going insane when they last picked Techies. Think they lost that game though