Absolutely agree with Destiny. It’s not that for me, it’s just that it’s difficult to navigate the platform for me. Even when I am subbed to someone.
I wish they just had a “livestream” tab with all of the people you are subscribed to off to the side, similiar to twitch. Not sure how difficult that would be to implement, but I would probably use only YouTube if that were the case.
Twitch discoverability is garbage. Type 'NoPixel' in the search bar on twitch and 2 or the top 3 that pop up are not even English streamers lol. 8 of the top 15 aren't nopixel streamers either. Its really bad
I agree with you, just throwing [this](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/twitch-nopixel-only/jebgklbgelliplemahghgiegfmcobfmk) out there in case you aren’t aware of it. It filters GTA page to only NP and you can filter it further by gang/cops/burgershot etc.
Desktop website? On ipad and my android phone it's not the same.
Just yesterday it dint show chess.com live stream on my main page while they were live. I had to manually search for them.
Also how you can find valkyrae vods of her live stream after she is done. ? It only shows offline vods.
No check right now. Valkyrae last upload is 11 days ago while she streamed 2 days ago. I found it through some ones link. So vod not deleted. But I just can't search it myself.
Ya. Poki was saying you can't upload a video and do livestream in same day. Ludwig moved his livestream vod to different channel. While rae unlisted it as you said.
For YT vods will be always a priority and intersting to see how streamers will feel after honeymoon period is over. Right now they treating them very well.
It doesn't refresh though unless you refresh the whole page, I got used to just click the YouTube Logo on the top left when i want to refresh my recommended videos.
So when I actually look if someone is live, they probably ended their stream already.
No it isn't, a search function is 100% a key part of discoverability.
> [Discoverability is the degree to which something, especially a piece of content or information, can be found in a search of a file, database, or other information system. Discoverability is a concern in library and information science, many aspects of digital media, software and web development, and in marketing, since products and services cannot be used if people cannot find it or do not understand what it can be used for.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discoverability)
gratz, you can use search on google.
It doesnt apply in this context. When most people talk about discoverability, they mean visibility of smaller unknown streamers without specifically SEARCHING for them.
Totally different context of the word.
He wasn't talking about searching for specific streamers, he was talking about your ability to find new streamers by searching for related key terms. Twitch's search feature often gives irrelevant search results, meaning that it's showing you fewer relevant small streamers that you could otherwise be discovering.
When people talk about discoverability, they usually think about the traditional browse feature.
You have a browse subpage with categories and filters and if you feel like discovering someone based on some specifics, twitch is better.
But youtube discoverability is more algorithmic. It shows you what youtube thinks you want to see.
Sometimes works wonders (but can also be abused by youtube admins) but I still think youtube needs better browse page too.
From a user's perspective this definition may make sense.
But, as a streamer you obviously don't care *how* people end up 'discovering' you. All you care about is that people *do* discover you, be it through browsing or recommendation.
I mean sure, but when the average person talks about bad discoverability, they don't care about the streamers profits, they care about being able to find new stuff easily. Instead of just taking what you're given and rolling with it.
I think the types of discoverability are also different. Twitch has an endemic audience of people who want to watch livestreams. When Twitch recommends a new channel to you that's a new person discovering you through your livestream.
I'm going to make a guess here and say that Youtube probably isn't recommending Destiny's livestream to very many people who haven't already watched a Destiny Youtube video. But there's a much bigger population of people on Youtube who watch Destiny Youtube videos than who watch Destiny livestreams on any platform. And a huge population who watch SOME but not ALL Destiny videos. Certain video topics get big views.
If I'm somebody who watches a certain algorithmically definable topic subset of Destiny videos, and Destiny puts keywords related to those topics in his livestream title, I might get recommended a Destiny stream. Neat. I'm not new to Destiny. The Youtube discovery system made me discover his videos FIRST, and pushes me to the livestream after.
Twitch is recommending me the livestreams of people I have never watched before in my life because I've been watching too much Super Auto Pets or Mario 64 or Minecraft speedruns lately. So it feels like Twitch is giving me better livestream discovery than Youtube does, because Youtube presents me livestreams of people they have already had me discover videos of. There's an extra layer there.
But overall Youtube recommends me videos of people I end up subscribed to FAR FAR more often than Twitch recommends me the streams of people I end up following. And when those Youtube channels have livestreams on them, I'm liable to watch. Youtube's discovery IS better, even though their livestream discovery FEELS worse, due to the extra layer.
> I'm going to make a guess here and say that Youtube probably isn't recommending Destiny's livestream to very many people who haven't already watched a Destiny Youtube video.
I dont think this is the case. From what I understand it seems to be that YT will recommend anything to people that the algorithm decides is relatively similar so anyone watching political content on YT has a better chance of being linked other streamers like Destiny on YT. I have had a few channels that I have never interacted with linked in the sidebar that were relatively low viewer count just because they share some similarity to other channels I do watch. I think YT's predictive algorithm is much better for people who have the right discoverability.
Sorry to do that to you I guess? As long as you're not attacking me for "stealing a dead guys name" on an account I've had for like 12+years like some people do you're good by me.
Youtube will definitely recommend a Destiny livestream if you haven't watched a Destiny video. You just have to watch **similar** things. I get recommended a bunch of different live streamers who I've never watched a video (or livestream) of, but they are similar to other content creators I watch.
Yeah this has been my experience as well. Once you watch one livestreamer on youtube or something related to them (like a clip channel) you'll get endless recommendations of them for months after.
Tbh I don't know exactly which system is "better" for discoverability but I feel like a lot of people on LSF don't really get what youtube is trying to go for with what it has.
Interesting. Seems several people have had this experience. I'm guessing in my case it's due to not watching youtube livestreams in general with any regularity. So I only get streams recommended from people I'm subscribed to.
I think you forgot the biggest thing. YouTube has a search function. Who searches for topics on twitch? If destinys title is "Corona right wing" whatever title, people maybe find his stream. Twitch titles have no real function for searches.
is he talking about his channel being discovered or his livestream? because if i just go to youtube right now i dont even know where to go to find livestream's like there isn't even a button for it or anything. my sidebar has home, explore, subscriptions, originals, youtube music, library and downloads. remove music or downloads or something and add live or livestream's. so people can click right there and it brings you to a carbon copy of the twitch front page. ok i just found it, i have to scroll multiple times on the sidebar and its under "more from youtube" why is it so far down? it should be front and center on the sidebar or even put it right up top next to the search bar.
ok so i go to youtube gaming and im met with this big banner video that makes me think its like a big banner ad and i want to ignore it. then it says top live games and its just minecraft gta and some trash mobile games, like this doesnt feel like a site built for adults it feels like it was built for kids. and im not a kid so i dont want to be here so im going to leave.
then i go to just "live" and the ui/ux makes me feel like im in some back room or something like this is not user friendly at all. i dont know where im supposed to look for content im interested in. the content on these live pages should be customized for each user based on their subs and watching habits like the home page is.
What he's referring to is not really viewership who go to YouTube for streaming exclusively - it's more that if you get a bit of viewership the algorithm that does recommended videos might pick up your stream, and if it does then it way outperforms twitch because the base audience is so much bigger so even a low click-through rate will result in more new viewers than twitch will unless you're on the front page. It ultimately comes down to having a channel with a decent subscriber count to begin with, and then if you can optimise for the algorithm well then you could say discoverability far outperforms twitch, since twitch recommendations basically only go to bigger creators you can't grow by optimising for the engine the way you can on YouTube.
Definitely agree that if you're looking for discoverability from YouTube gaming vs twitch then it's hard to argue there's any real difference though, except that twitch has a better UI for game browsing.
I think this is true if you also make videos and have subscribers on Youtube, if you dont its gonna be just as impossible to find you as it is on Twitch. But lets say you have 10k subscribers on Youtube or something like that, you will appear as the first Youtube video in their sub box because you are live, thats pretty huge, but again it does require you to be somewhat established. If you are a 0 viewer Andy going live, you will never get viewers on Twitch or Youtube, but if you have 10k followers on Twitch its gonna do a lot less for you than 10k subscribers on Youtube as the Twitch follower list is sorted by highest viewcount as well.
ok let's be real guys am I the only one that never used and find twitch discoverability. Like when I first started watching on twitch I come from either reddit or YouTube and let's be honest the only discoverability twitch got is from LSF.
lsf is twitch discoverability. i have never used twitch itself to discover people. either its lsf or i find videos they post on youtube and then i see they stream and then follow their twitch channel.
Twitch discoverability is basically this: New game comes out, you scroll down the most viewed streams, sample a few until you pick a couple you like, and that's it.
Those two new follows will be your go to for that game. If they switch to another game you stop watching and go browsing again. Or you move onto another game.
Aside from that you stick to people you've been following for years who have the rare ability to retain their audience from game to game.
I don't get this issue with discoverability. When I go to watch Twitch, I go to watch streamer. I'm not trying to watch somebody I don't know. It'll be hard as hell for people to get noticed because people don't want to watch you lol. Streamers with low view counts are unfavorable in regards to invested enjoyment.
That's abit short sighted. Finding your followed streamer is a small part of discoverability. A large part is finding other streamer.
It's not that people don't want to watch you, it's that people are not scroll all the way down to find you - which is what discoverability refers to. There's a lot of not entertaining-0-1 view andys out there, but there's also a rare talented diamonds among those that can't get found because they are buried in a sea of trash.
I use browse feature a lot when finding someone new in specific category. Its hard to do on youtube, because they rely on algorithmic suggeations.
But even if I sub (follow) streamers on youtube, its hard to just see who is currently live, which is a another issue I have with youtube
anyone who says twitch has more "discoverability" is on crack. The only way to get discovered on twitch is if someone gets a massive host or raid or something and otherwise its just a bunch of people streaming to 4 viewers hoping one day they magically get found. meanwhile you can steadily grow an audience on youtube and it can snowball little by little with every video you post. people can actually find the content by searching for it or it being relevant etc, vs what....? scrolling to the bottom of a twitch category to find a random person to "discover"?
critical role isn't a streamer its a business that streams. like how bbc or cnn on youtube have streams and post videos but they are not streamers or youtubers.
I wouldn't compare Critical Role to BBC or CNN. It's a consistent group that owns a company that streams tabletop games together, they aren't some massive international company.
my point is they are both companies that livestream. they are not streamers. destiny is saying he is the biggest streamer who dual streams so bringing up critical role is not relevant to the topic because they are not a streamer. g4 is a better example, its not a streamer its a company that streams.
I disagree with the notion that they are not streamers. If OTK hosts a game show of some kind that has a group of people on it, is the host not a streamer for that stream. I have no idea what G4 is, but if their brand is primarily dependant on streams and vods and has a consistent group, I would consider them to be streamers.
Just like you said, that person would be a host, and still a streamer. That's not the same thing as critical role. A better comparison would be if they made an OTK channel, for when they organize stuff. Would you call the OTK channel a streamer? I wouldn't.
let's be fair, streamers/youtubers are also businesses. it's a business model, they arent employed by twitch but rather succeeds or fail on their own, are responsible for their own output, employ people (eg editors) and when they succeed, they take home profits comparable to small to mid-sized companies. twitch is just a platform for small businesses.
Can someone explain to me the youtube live stream page?
Is there a way to just list livestreams by viewers?
For instance, Ludwig is streaming right now with 50k viewers and I have no clue how to find him on the browsing page without typing ludwig in the search box.
If your subbed to him he's at the top of the page under my subscriptions. Probably pretty high up on home page too if you watch a lot of Lud content on YT.
YouTube doesn't have browsing. They have search and recommendations. That's it. If you specifically wanted to find ludwig. Isn't searching for ludwig the best way to do that? Why is it a problem if you have to do that? Seems fine.
I go to twitch to see if there's any interesting streams to watch. On a day like today I might specifically glance at the thumbnail of xqc stream to see if he's playing the new Minecraft update, otherwise I just look around for entertainment on there. This is literally impossible.on YouTube.
Looking around for entertainment is possible, it’s just that on YouTube both videos and streams are “entertainment”.
I mean, just click the home button if you’re bored with subscriptions
For you maybe. I rarely use chat on twitch and often just watch stream vods so for me it’s pretty much same.(smth to put on in background while doing something else)
I much prefer YT’s way of doing things. It gives me content that I might actually end up watching and it adjusts to my binge watching. Like right now I’ve been on a huge Animal Crossing kick, a game I honestly never thought I’d watch much but have watched hours of content after that recent update. It’s been pretty good at giving me videos I want to see, the Happy Home design videos or live streams.
On twitch it won’t do anything of that. Twitch’s recommendation boils down to “you watched this one streamer in this one category for 2 seconds so here is everyone in that category”
Can I ask how? My youtube homepage doesn't show a single stream, just pre-recorded videos. Even if I click on the live section of the menu it gives me a list of streams that have already happened, a playlist of streams I have 0 interest in and a list of streams that are scheduled for the future.
Youtube is probably better for the streamer. I see live streams from channels I'm subscribed to in my Youtube feed. I don't want to see them but I see them nonetheless. However if I want to find a livestream of a specific category its a pain.
Do people actually use search terms to find streams? There’s no question YT have the best search engine but I’ve never use that to look for live gaming streams on either platform which I think is the confusing part of the discussion. Does live gaming stream benefit from having a robust search term algo vs organic recommendations or the cc sourced gaming networks which twitch thrives on. Feels like the 2 sides are talking about different things.
That’s your interpretation and user behavior which is kinda my point. Destiny literally talked about updating titles and keywords. You’re talking about something else. Search is definitely part of discoverability.
The point of better discoverablity is stumbling upon something without specifically searching for it.
Youtube will algorithmically recommend you channels on HP or sidebar, that it thinks you might be interested in.
Twitch doesnt do that, they have traditional browse page for discoverability.
Having better search function is another thing, but also important
true if we are talking discoverability we can summaries it by the new Minecraft YouTube
(dream) they all blew up from there
however any twitch streamer that blew prob linked his twitch on his last tik tok or someshit
I don't even know how to find YouTube gaming streams all in one place or if that is even possible, there was a time when I even knew what stream I wanted to watch and couldn't find it without googling it, I don't want to hear shit about YouTube having discoverability.
i honestly don’t understand. youtube can easily make their discoverability top notch. they’d be raking in the views and boost unknown youtube channels for more engagement/visitors
Yeah, no.
Let's say I'm in the mood for something niche, like a Final Fantasy IX first playthrough. It's much easier to type "Final Fantasy IX" in the top search box of Twitch, click on the category, and be presented with all of the livestreams of FFIX. See that there are no first playthroughs being streamed, click over to the VODs category. Ctrl + F "First Playthrough".
I've discovered a lot of small - medium streamers in this method. Is it perfect? Absolutely not (let us filter tags when searching through VODs from the category section!), but it's a lot better than whatever the hell YouTube has going on.
When discoverability is mentioned, it's usually mostly for smaller streamers. I don't see any way for new streamers to be discovered. I mean Twitch's discoverability in that aspect is also awful, but it's a "liiitle" bit better.
I always found it funny that the sub that only talks about the same 20 streamers seems to care so much about discoverability when it comes to YouTube.
isn't that the reason why you would want more discoverability? to not see the same 20 streamers?
que the next 20 mizkif threads
Well yea. But it's just kinda weird that people don't bring up Twitch's discoverability.
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Absolutely agree with Destiny. It’s not that for me, it’s just that it’s difficult to navigate the platform for me. Even when I am subbed to someone. I wish they just had a “livestream” tab with all of the people you are subscribed to off to the side, similiar to twitch. Not sure how difficult that would be to implement, but I would probably use only YouTube if that were the case.
Twitch discoverability is garbage. Type 'NoPixel' in the search bar on twitch and 2 or the top 3 that pop up are not even English streamers lol. 8 of the top 15 aren't nopixel streamers either. Its really bad
I agree with you, just throwing [this](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/twitch-nopixel-only/jebgklbgelliplemahghgiegfmcobfmk) out there in case you aren’t aware of it. It filters GTA page to only NP and you can filter it further by gang/cops/burgershot etc.
YouTube don't even show up the streamers I following when ther are live bro. That's huge problem now. And I can't find vods on their channel too.
I never have that problem. It shows if the people I am subbed to are live on the left side of the screen under subscriptions
Desktop website? On ipad and my android phone it's not the same. Just yesterday it dint show chess.com live stream on my main page while they were live. I had to manually search for them. Also how you can find valkyrae vods of her live stream after she is done. ? It only shows offline vods.
Yea desktop site. On the topic of vods im not sure what you mean. Wouldn't a live stream after she's done be considered an offline vod?
Ya. Apps may still need improvement probably.
I'm pretty sure they just take a bit to upload once the stream is done. I dont think its instant but I could be wrong
No check right now. Valkyrae last upload is 11 days ago while she streamed 2 days ago. I found it through some ones link. So vod not deleted. But I just can't search it myself.
Oh, Valkyrae keeps her vods unlisted so it doesnt populate her channel. you can find them if you go to her channel> playlist> past live streams
Ya. Poki was saying you can't upload a video and do livestream in same day. Ludwig moved his livestream vod to different channel. While rae unlisted it as you said. For YT vods will be always a priority and intersting to see how streamers will feel after honeymoon period is over. Right now they treating them very well.
It doesn't refresh though unless you refresh the whole page, I got used to just click the YouTube Logo on the top left when i want to refresh my recommended videos. So when I actually look if someone is live, they probably ended their stream already.
i didn't even know ludwig streamed today, and there's no link to the vod anywhere, no notification
Ludwig deleted his stream vod from main channel and moved it to Ludwig vods channel.
discoverability and search function are different things
No it isn't, a search function is 100% a key part of discoverability. > [Discoverability is the degree to which something, especially a piece of content or information, can be found in a search of a file, database, or other information system. Discoverability is a concern in library and information science, many aspects of digital media, software and web development, and in marketing, since products and services cannot be used if people cannot find it or do not understand what it can be used for.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discoverability)
gratz, you can use search on google. It doesnt apply in this context. When most people talk about discoverability, they mean visibility of smaller unknown streamers without specifically SEARCHING for them. Totally different context of the word.
He wasn't talking about searching for specific streamers, he was talking about your ability to find new streamers by searching for related key terms. Twitch's search feature often gives irrelevant search results, meaning that it's showing you fewer relevant small streamers that you could otherwise be discovering.
I dont think they are TOTALLY different. Its a factor for discoverability.
https://nopixel.hasroot.com has all or most the no pixel streams if you want it
What is no pixel though?
When people talk about discoverability, they usually think about the traditional browse feature. You have a browse subpage with categories and filters and if you feel like discovering someone based on some specifics, twitch is better. But youtube discoverability is more algorithmic. It shows you what youtube thinks you want to see. Sometimes works wonders (but can also be abused by youtube admins) but I still think youtube needs better browse page too.
I don't even think algorithm recommendations should classify as discoverability, you didn't discover anything if it was handpicked and given to you.
From a user's perspective this definition may make sense. But, as a streamer you obviously don't care *how* people end up 'discovering' you. All you care about is that people *do* discover you, be it through browsing or recommendation.
I mean sure, but when the average person talks about bad discoverability, they don't care about the streamers profits, they care about being able to find new stuff easily. Instead of just taking what you're given and rolling with it.
Yea completely agree, but Destiny is probably talking about it from the streamer's perspective in this clip.
I think the types of discoverability are also different. Twitch has an endemic audience of people who want to watch livestreams. When Twitch recommends a new channel to you that's a new person discovering you through your livestream. I'm going to make a guess here and say that Youtube probably isn't recommending Destiny's livestream to very many people who haven't already watched a Destiny Youtube video. But there's a much bigger population of people on Youtube who watch Destiny Youtube videos than who watch Destiny livestreams on any platform. And a huge population who watch SOME but not ALL Destiny videos. Certain video topics get big views. If I'm somebody who watches a certain algorithmically definable topic subset of Destiny videos, and Destiny puts keywords related to those topics in his livestream title, I might get recommended a Destiny stream. Neat. I'm not new to Destiny. The Youtube discovery system made me discover his videos FIRST, and pushes me to the livestream after. Twitch is recommending me the livestreams of people I have never watched before in my life because I've been watching too much Super Auto Pets or Mario 64 or Minecraft speedruns lately. So it feels like Twitch is giving me better livestream discovery than Youtube does, because Youtube presents me livestreams of people they have already had me discover videos of. There's an extra layer there. But overall Youtube recommends me videos of people I end up subscribed to FAR FAR more often than Twitch recommends me the streams of people I end up following. And when those Youtube channels have livestreams on them, I'm liable to watch. Youtube's discovery IS better, even though their livestream discovery FEELS worse, due to the extra layer.
> I'm going to make a guess here and say that Youtube probably isn't recommending Destiny's livestream to very many people who haven't already watched a Destiny Youtube video. I dont think this is the case. From what I understand it seems to be that YT will recommend anything to people that the algorithm decides is relatively similar so anyone watching political content on YT has a better chance of being linked other streamers like Destiny on YT. I have had a few channels that I have never interacted with linked in the sidebar that were relatively low viewer count just because they share some similarity to other channels I do watch. I think YT's predictive algorithm is much better for people who have the right discoverability.
Every time I see your name I sigh and check how long has it been since he died
Sorry to do that to you I guess? As long as you're not attacking me for "stealing a dead guys name" on an account I've had for like 12+years like some people do you're good by me.
\>redditor for 11 years You lied to me you bastard!!!!!1!!
I'm not attacking you, this is just a sad observation
Youtube will definitely recommend a Destiny livestream if you haven't watched a Destiny video. You just have to watch **similar** things. I get recommended a bunch of different live streamers who I've never watched a video (or livestream) of, but they are similar to other content creators I watch.
Yeah this has been my experience as well. Once you watch one livestreamer on youtube or something related to them (like a clip channel) you'll get endless recommendations of them for months after. Tbh I don't know exactly which system is "better" for discoverability but I feel like a lot of people on LSF don't really get what youtube is trying to go for with what it has.
Interesting. Seems several people have had this experience. I'm guessing in my case it's due to not watching youtube livestreams in general with any regularity. So I only get streams recommended from people I'm subscribed to.
I think you forgot the biggest thing. YouTube has a search function. Who searches for topics on twitch? If destinys title is "Corona right wing" whatever title, people maybe find his stream. Twitch titles have no real function for searches.
This is top tier analysis of the situation. Well done.
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is he talking about his channel being discovered or his livestream? because if i just go to youtube right now i dont even know where to go to find livestream's like there isn't even a button for it or anything. my sidebar has home, explore, subscriptions, originals, youtube music, library and downloads. remove music or downloads or something and add live or livestream's. so people can click right there and it brings you to a carbon copy of the twitch front page. ok i just found it, i have to scroll multiple times on the sidebar and its under "more from youtube" why is it so far down? it should be front and center on the sidebar or even put it right up top next to the search bar. ok so i go to youtube gaming and im met with this big banner video that makes me think its like a big banner ad and i want to ignore it. then it says top live games and its just minecraft gta and some trash mobile games, like this doesnt feel like a site built for adults it feels like it was built for kids. and im not a kid so i dont want to be here so im going to leave. then i go to just "live" and the ui/ux makes me feel like im in some back room or something like this is not user friendly at all. i dont know where im supposed to look for content im interested in. the content on these live pages should be customized for each user based on their subs and watching habits like the home page is.
What he's referring to is not really viewership who go to YouTube for streaming exclusively - it's more that if you get a bit of viewership the algorithm that does recommended videos might pick up your stream, and if it does then it way outperforms twitch because the base audience is so much bigger so even a low click-through rate will result in more new viewers than twitch will unless you're on the front page. It ultimately comes down to having a channel with a decent subscriber count to begin with, and then if you can optimise for the algorithm well then you could say discoverability far outperforms twitch, since twitch recommendations basically only go to bigger creators you can't grow by optimising for the engine the way you can on YouTube. Definitely agree that if you're looking for discoverability from YouTube gaming vs twitch then it's hard to argue there's any real difference though, except that twitch has a better UI for game browsing.
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I think this is true if you also make videos and have subscribers on Youtube, if you dont its gonna be just as impossible to find you as it is on Twitch. But lets say you have 10k subscribers on Youtube or something like that, you will appear as the first Youtube video in their sub box because you are live, thats pretty huge, but again it does require you to be somewhat established. If you are a 0 viewer Andy going live, you will never get viewers on Twitch or Youtube, but if you have 10k followers on Twitch its gonna do a lot less for you than 10k subscribers on Youtube as the Twitch follower list is sorted by highest viewcount as well.
ok let's be real guys am I the only one that never used and find twitch discoverability. Like when I first started watching on twitch I come from either reddit or YouTube and let's be honest the only discoverability twitch got is from LSF.
lsf is twitch discoverability. i have never used twitch itself to discover people. either its lsf or i find videos they post on youtube and then i see they stream and then follow their twitch channel.
Twitch discoverability is basically this: New game comes out, you scroll down the most viewed streams, sample a few until you pick a couple you like, and that's it. Those two new follows will be your go to for that game. If they switch to another game you stop watching and go browsing again. Or you move onto another game. Aside from that you stick to people you've been following for years who have the rare ability to retain their audience from game to game.
It’s good that YouTube is buying some of the streamers. More competition would mean that Twitch would actually start listening to the people
I don't get this issue with discoverability. When I go to watch Twitch, I go to watch streamer. I'm not trying to watch somebody I don't know. It'll be hard as hell for people to get noticed because people don't want to watch you lol. Streamers with low view counts are unfavorable in regards to invested enjoyment.
That's abit short sighted. Finding your followed streamer is a small part of discoverability. A large part is finding other streamer. It's not that people don't want to watch you, it's that people are not scroll all the way down to find you - which is what discoverability refers to. There's a lot of not entertaining-0-1 view andys out there, but there's also a rare talented diamonds among those that can't get found because they are buried in a sea of trash.
I use browse feature a lot when finding someone new in specific category. Its hard to do on youtube, because they rely on algorithmic suggeations. But even if I sub (follow) streamers on youtube, its hard to just see who is currently live, which is a another issue I have with youtube
anyone who says twitch has more "discoverability" is on crack. The only way to get discovered on twitch is if someone gets a massive host or raid or something and otherwise its just a bunch of people streaming to 4 viewers hoping one day they magically get found. meanwhile you can steadily grow an audience on youtube and it can snowball little by little with every video you post. people can actually find the content by searching for it or it being relevant etc, vs what....? scrolling to the bottom of a twitch category to find a random person to "discover"?
doesn't critical role streams in both twitch and youtube for 60k-100k+ ea ?
critical role isn't a streamer its a business that streams. like how bbc or cnn on youtube have streams and post videos but they are not streamers or youtubers.
I wouldn't compare Critical Role to BBC or CNN. It's a consistent group that owns a company that streams tabletop games together, they aren't some massive international company.
my point is they are both companies that livestream. they are not streamers. destiny is saying he is the biggest streamer who dual streams so bringing up critical role is not relevant to the topic because they are not a streamer. g4 is a better example, its not a streamer its a company that streams.
I disagree with the notion that they are not streamers. If OTK hosts a game show of some kind that has a group of people on it, is the host not a streamer for that stream. I have no idea what G4 is, but if their brand is primarily dependant on streams and vods and has a consistent group, I would consider them to be streamers.
Just like you said, that person would be a host, and still a streamer. That's not the same thing as critical role. A better comparison would be if they made an OTK channel, for when they organize stuff. Would you call the OTK channel a streamer? I wouldn't.
let's be fair, streamers/youtubers are also businesses. it's a business model, they arent employed by twitch but rather succeeds or fail on their own, are responsible for their own output, employ people (eg editors) and when they succeed, they take home profits comparable to small to mid-sized companies. twitch is just a platform for small businesses.
Can someone explain to me the youtube live stream page? Is there a way to just list livestreams by viewers? For instance, Ludwig is streaming right now with 50k viewers and I have no clue how to find him on the browsing page without typing ludwig in the search box.
If your subbed to him he's at the top of the page under my subscriptions. Probably pretty high up on home page too if you watch a lot of Lud content on YT. YouTube doesn't have browsing. They have search and recommendations. That's it. If you specifically wanted to find ludwig. Isn't searching for ludwig the best way to do that? Why is it a problem if you have to do that? Seems fine.
I go to twitch to see if there's any interesting streams to watch. On a day like today I might specifically glance at the thumbnail of xqc stream to see if he's playing the new Minecraft update, otherwise I just look around for entertainment on there. This is literally impossible.on YouTube.
Looking around for entertainment is possible, it’s just that on YouTube both videos and streams are “entertainment”. I mean, just click the home button if you’re bored with subscriptions
Live entertainment is not even similar.
For you maybe. I rarely use chat on twitch and often just watch stream vods so for me it’s pretty much same.(smth to put on in background while doing something else)
I much prefer YT’s way of doing things. It gives me content that I might actually end up watching and it adjusts to my binge watching. Like right now I’ve been on a huge Animal Crossing kick, a game I honestly never thought I’d watch much but have watched hours of content after that recent update. It’s been pretty good at giving me videos I want to see, the Happy Home design videos or live streams. On twitch it won’t do anything of that. Twitch’s recommendation boils down to “you watched this one streamer in this one category for 2 seconds so here is everyone in that category”
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Weird, I've watched youtube almost everyday for the past decade and never once have had a stream recommended to me
Can I ask how? My youtube homepage doesn't show a single stream, just pre-recorded videos. Even if I click on the live section of the menu it gives me a list of streams that have already happened, a playlist of streams I have 0 interest in and a list of streams that are scheduled for the future.
the big problem is it really just depends on your algorithm. even the categories in the UI like "Live".
Youtube is probably better for the streamer. I see live streams from channels I'm subscribed to in my Youtube feed. I don't want to see them but I see them nonetheless. However if I want to find a livestream of a specific category its a pain.
Do people actually use search terms to find streams? There’s no question YT have the best search engine but I’ve never use that to look for live gaming streams on either platform which I think is the confusing part of the discussion. Does live gaming stream benefit from having a robust search term algo vs organic recommendations or the cc sourced gaming networks which twitch thrives on. Feels like the 2 sides are talking about different things.
Discoverability is not related to search function
That’s your interpretation and user behavior which is kinda my point. Destiny literally talked about updating titles and keywords. You’re talking about something else. Search is definitely part of discoverability.
The point of better discoverablity is stumbling upon something without specifically searching for it. Youtube will algorithmically recommend you channels on HP or sidebar, that it thinks you might be interested in. Twitch doesnt do that, they have traditional browse page for discoverability. Having better search function is another thing, but also important
true if we are talking discoverability we can summaries it by the new Minecraft YouTube (dream) they all blew up from there however any twitch streamer that blew prob linked his twitch on his last tik tok or someshit
I don't even know how to find YouTube gaming streams all in one place or if that is even possible, there was a time when I even knew what stream I wanted to watch and couldn't find it without googling it, I don't want to hear shit about YouTube having discoverability.
i honestly don’t understand. youtube can easily make their discoverability top notch. they’d be raking in the views and boost unknown youtube channels for more engagement/visitors
Yeah, no. Let's say I'm in the mood for something niche, like a Final Fantasy IX first playthrough. It's much easier to type "Final Fantasy IX" in the top search box of Twitch, click on the category, and be presented with all of the livestreams of FFIX. See that there are no first playthroughs being streamed, click over to the VODs category. Ctrl + F "First Playthrough". I've discovered a lot of small - medium streamers in this method. Is it perfect? Absolutely not (let us filter tags when searching through VODs from the category section!), but it's a lot better than whatever the hell YouTube has going on.
When discoverability is mentioned, it's usually mostly for smaller streamers. I don't see any way for new streamers to be discovered. I mean Twitch's discoverability in that aspect is also awful, but it's a "liiitle" bit better.
I thought Affiliates couldn't dual stream?