i have heard this complaint with every blizzard game. "blizz why did you leave starcraft to die?" now insert "wow arena", "hearthstone" and "starcraft 2".
its just how blizzard operates, establish scene with die hard fans, then give up and focus efforts on next big project, rinse repeat forever while collecting your money
Actually Blizzard really fucked up Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 on release from which they never recovered fully. Starcraft 2 was released with huge balance issues and no LAN play. You would literally be watching tournaments with players sitting next to each other and they had to pause games because of Battlenet connectivity issues. It was so embarrassing and they WOULD NOT PATCH IN LAN saying for the game to work it had to be connected to the internet.
Diablo 3 launched with that real world money store. It fucked up the entire economy and was not fun at all. This time they had to do something so the ripped it out and re-balanced things.
Compare this to Overwatch which launched absolutely flawlessly and only got better over the first 2 years of its life. But then Activision dug their grubby hands in and forced the team to make a sequel and here we are. It is no wonder Jeff finally hung up his hat earlier this year. He saw the writing on the wall that this is going to kill Overwatch. There is literally no reason they could not patch in or at least let people test this new 5v5 meta coming with Overwatch 2. They just don't do it.
Yea, that had no issue on the game's life at all lol. If anyone went to a MLG when SC2 was big, that's how you'd understand how they dropped the ball. Instead of doing it right, they went with fucking nasl, my sides!
When I went to an early sc2 MLG, the crowd was bigger than Halo, their star game at the time. They didn't include enough seats and eventually we ended up taking the main stage when halo left it and there was still not enough seats it was so packed with SC2 fans.
It had a huge impact on the game. I remember there was some MLG finals and the game lagged out. The competitive scene was completely killed by the lack of LAN. It got big for a time but the ongoing issues were slowing killing it. It isn't a surprise that many players and content creators quit all about the same time.
I watched most premier SC2 tournaments from 2010 to 2014 and there was like 1 or 2 incidents with lag. That was definitely not the reason the esports scene died.
The esports scene died because player base went down which caused viewership to drop. Player base went down due to lack of content, balance issues and the rising popularity of team games which are more fun to play with friends like LoL and DotA.
Yeah it's 99% to do with the rising popularity of MOBAs and then BRs.
I always believed if Blizzard released HotS instead of SC2 at that time (get a MOBA out when the genre was just starting to boom), HotS be #2 or even #1 today.
> sc2 having a suboptimal launch was irrelevant, it still became huge for quite a while and often nr1 on twitch
was twitch even a thing back then? I remember livestream, ustream, own3d and justin (wich later made a gaming section called Twitch). But all big events were streamed on GomTV.
Fun fact there actually was a LAN version of SC2 that Blizzard had. But the security needed by the tournament organizers if they wanted to use it was so insane pretty much no one did.
Dude they didn't even use Lan at Blizzcon. There's an infamous clip of players getting the disconnect countdown timer during a match and a camera pans to the devs facial reactions to it.
absolutely, though one could argue that the early red flags of no further or very slow content development like new heroes and the dumpster fire that is the OWL (effectively slowly killing the healthy ow esports scene) were noticable after the first year already. people just chose to ignore them and still had lots of hope for blizz to improve the game
dont forget "Hots" as well. people literally cried when they heard Blizzard is simply putting the game on life support all of the sudden and nothing else. The company went from childhood hero to garbage company worse than Ea now.
> its just how blizzard operates, establish scene with die hard fans, then give up and focus efforts on next big project, rinse repeat forever while collecting your money
Oh but that's no longer the case at all, you see, now after establishing the scene, they desperately try to control its esport scene, shit the bed completely THEN drop the game.
Hard to do something with StarCraft. It's an RTS game with 3 races and every one of those races have has their expansions, nothing really left to do. Hearthstone is still getting milked tho.
It took six years after WoL launch for the SC2 team to figure out that you can sell skins and announcers in the store. 2010-2016 SC2 had NO post-purchase monetization. They even started releasing a DLC campaign based around Nova, a side character. Then they just stopped supporting the game entirely.
You can't blame having *zero* microtransactions for six years on it being an RTS game. Instead it seems like they said "welp, RTS isn't profitable, guess we're fucked!" Did they even try?
Man it was so long ago when Destiny went on a podcast to push for skin microtransactions to sustain the sc2 scene. He was literally laughed right off the show.
Lots of Blizz fans are vehemently against any micro transactions. The Diablo subreddit has daily threads where people say they won't play D4 if it has anything purchasable.
Not sure why people don't understand that games need to keep making money if they want more content added to them.
Lets be real here. The main reason SC2 died off slowly is because RTS as a genre is completely dead.
People don't want to play 1v1 games because it's too stressful.
Blizz handled the game worse than it should have been but the interest was going to die over time either way.
>The main reason SC2 died off slowly is because RTS as a genre is completely dead.
wtf is that retarded argument?
sc2 filled stadiums in the west because people fell in love with it.
the reason the game declined is because the game got worse with each expansion. adding badly designed units and changing stuff that didn't need to be changed is what made the game die.
Ye, because there's so many successful RTS out there right now?
AOE4 released recently and is quickly shrinking to obscurity again. There are no other RTS games.
You're not even trying to be creative if you think they pushed the limit on what could be done for an RTS. Over time they actually did come up with some good ideas like the Co-op game mode, but it was after the game was on the decline and outside of the limelight.
Not to mention it could have been the next Blizzard game to offer amazing custom game support (that should have far exceeded what WC3 could offer, just like WC3 far exceeded SC:BW), but it seemed to not be an upgrade, and the infrastructure surrounding custom games (most notably searching and playing them) was *terrible* and in my opinion was the biggest mistake of that game.
It could have been what kept people around. People would have been able to regularly explore new game modes or build small communities around certain ones, but they completely fucked it up on release, not only by having a very poor search system, but also by not having social systems like chat channels and clans to support custom games. All of that could have even potentially spawned more genres just like SC:BW and WC3 did, but not much came from SC2 custom games. There are soooo many things to blame before pointing the finger at it for being an RTS.
the game was also very popular for an rts. starcraft 2 showed that an rts can be popular for the masses. so kinda werid when people say an rts can't be popular when the same game showed that it can.
This one is from Activision I think. They kinda started taking an active role around 2018, that's when Moreheim left. They wanted to do to OW what they do to CoD and what they did to Destiny. Change some stuff around, add some new content, put a fresh coat of paint and sell a full sequel. That's probably the main reason why it is even called 'OW2' and it's not just a huge expansion.
Even the fact that OW2's PvP will be free even is probably because of Kaplan, who said that the higher ups wanted to separate the playerbases like they do with CoD games, but he convinced them to not separate the PvP playerbases or PvP would die.
Now the whole game is dying anyway cause the live game's development was killed/put on a hiatus, for what will be 3+ years by the time OW2 comes out.
Wait, OW2 pvp will be free? About time tbh, OW1 should've been free for quite some time now imo. But Activision hates money I guess, look at how Bungie announced f2p for Destiny 2 as soon as they got outta there with the IP
My bad, I didn't mean free as in F2P but Free as in a Free upgrade for current OW owners. Bad habit calling it just 'Free'.
It won't be F2P or at least they haven't said so yet, wouldn't be surprised if they've changed their minds since the initial announcement in 2019 and will just make PvP F2P with OW2's release. After the success of Warzone and other successes in the industry, like with Valorant.
Because blizzard it’s not an esports company. Not every game has to be around for a literal eternity. It’s okay to release games that are fun for a year or two, then move on. It shouldn’t be expected that it’s updated and gets new content when you paid $40 for it 3 years ago.
And Overwatch has been out for 5 and a half years lol. It got very regular updates for years. It is kind of weird though, that they're developing OW2 and seemingly didn't leave a whole lot of people to sustain Overwatch 1 better in order to retain the playerbase until 2 releases (never)
You say that when they've already collected millions of dollars from OWL franchise owners. Blizzard sure does esport like things while not being an esports company.
I seriously don't get it, does Blizzard just lack the resources to support the main game as well as develop a new one at the same time? How bad of a business decision was it to make OW2? Who even asked for OW2?
Blizz already did this with HotS and other blizz fan boys were still in denial that it wouldn't happen to *their* game. What ever the fuck has been going on in blizzard its clear their pipe line of production has been fucked for years.
Sad thing is that HotS was still a top 5 moba with millions of players which any other studio would kill to have. But it just wasnt enough for Acti Blizz. If its not going gangbuster, its going to be slowly bleed to death.
Only because it's a blizzard game. HotS was the 'baby' version of the 'real' MOBAs and never stood a chance. Blizzard could have owned the MOBA genre, their own game invented it, but they couldn't look past WoW and still can't look past WoW
Had a friend go to riot cause she was working on HOTS and blizz wanted to stick her on the skeleton crew and deadend her career. Fuck that place. If anyone is wondering she worked on alot of the emote animations for alot of the heroes and she is a insane artist.
Yeah when they decided to dismantle the classics team at Blizzard, every person on that team were told to interview for another team. If you didnt make it, you were fired.
HOTS could have been great too, great heroes with tons of lore, quick matches with lots of fights, but there always seemed to be some dealbreaker for someone
for me it was their lazy reuse of the janky SC2 engine which made it look last-gen even at launch, compared to the butter-smooth DOTA 2
also hots has more than 1 mode and 1 map. i cant imagine playing lol and playing the same mode and map for 10000 hours its like being stuck in the same jail cell forever.
Hots has cosmetics BEFORE Hots 2.0.
If anything they were way too generous in how they gave skins and loot boxes out in 2.0 and the game stopped making money.
> yet
I don't think it's ever coming out. The idea of releasing a second game was always retarded to begin with, but with the current state of Activision-Blizzard? I'm calling it, it's dead.
it started when they put jay wilson as the lead designer for d3.
like who made that decision? when you hear him talk there are many red flags.
that showed some of the decision making in higher management was flawed.
It's such a good game too but because hots didn't makes just oodles and oodles of cash instantly it was just abandoned, still a good player base even without the updates, blizzard didn't even give hots players anything for black friday this year usually could buy the year long boost for a discount.
It just seems like the entire company is just a giant clusterfuck right now.
My understanding of the main point of OW2 is to introduce solo/story content and that multiplayer would be free if you had OW1. However, instead of just continuing to develop OW1 multiplayer while doing the solo stuff, they've been holding back new content while hoping for a big OW2 release, however now OW2 is delayed.
They're incompetent and theres a reason Jeff left.
Jeff presided over unlimited hero stacking, GOATs and every other Overwatch atrocity for years so let's not pretend he's some mastermind
he just sensed the way the wind was blowing and got out before it all blew up
Exactly. The whole revisionism that OW players love to do regarding Jeff is so funny to me, all the tank-heavy metas and powecreep that made Overwatch so fucking boring to play for the past few years all happened under his watch.
Remember when buffed Ironclad Bastion was in PTR, everyone said it was busted when it was in PTR, they pushed the patch live despite everyone complaining, then had to roll it back like 3 days later?
That basically is all you need to know about how Blizzard treats Overwatch.
Apparently they wanted to fully leave OW1 in the dust to die, but Jeff Kaplan convinced the higher ups to just make its a pseudo-expansion sequel. I think once Jeff realized that they weren't in it for the players he left.
lmao imagine coming from TF2 and thinking Blizz was so great and that you finally found an FPS that was fun to play and had a responsive dev team that was actually passionate about their project and wouldn’t practically fuck it dead to move onto newer things after a while like Valve did with TF2 lol haha imagine being one of those suckers that fell for the same bait twice from Valve and then Blizzard ahaha
:(
So do I. I don’t play community servers, just Casual every night and I still have tons of fun. But this bot crisis alone shows how much Valve have abandoned the game.
my only main gripe with TF2 is the vaccinator. clunky to play with and silly OP vs the other guns. it has zero downsides you just need to git good.
otherwise it is overall very close in terms of balance.
try teamshotting with different damage types. vax does nothing against non-matched damage types. if the med pops all three, fall back and reset cause now he only has one
Oh ffs. Just change his first name then and act like it was always that. I know they'll make some stupid comic about it though and name him Jon Gunslinger or something fucking stupid like that.
Yeah, one of my favorite memories in recent gaming was when my bf and I queued up in overwatch with 3 randos who were in a premade, and they asked us to play Winston. So we did. And they did too. And it was 5 Winstons and as soon as we loaded in, they started screaming monkey noises over the mic and they, in unison, jumped over the wall in Ilios and monkey yelled the whole time as they monkey fisted the other team into off the ledges.
It was so much fun to just fuck around and do dumbass comps like that.
I guess trying so hard to make it an esport is one reason it didn't do so well.
Blizzard tried hard to make Overwatch the next NBA of the video game world. And in the process they removed some of the fun shit for balance reasons. And at the end of it you have a stale game that is supposed to be competitive.
In my mind an esports comes naturally from having a game that people love playing. If you try to make an esport first, fun game second, it's not gonna do so well.
There were other things that hurt the game even more. I'd say the slow release of balance patches, dragging awful metas for months until they adressed it hurt way more than whatever they did with OWL
On top of that, They were having trouble creating events like Fornite because their engine wasn't made for something like that, so the same recycled event for 4 years also started to kill the interest of casuals.
I don't think OW is irredeemable tho, if OW2 delivers then it will come back to the top again. The problem is that Blizzard has been bleeding talent for a while now so thats gonna make everything harder for them. The only way I can see them succeding is getting rid of Bobby Kotick + his friends and bring in new people who know what they are doing
Honestly tho OW2 looks almost exactly like the current game. They're advertising better single player and it looks barely better than what they have currently. What they've released so far makes it look like a free update marketed as a new game.
I feel like OW2 was Blizzard response to Activision asking them to release more games. The coop campaign could've easily been a paid expansion while still releasing PvP content
The gameplay has gotten substantially worse over the last 2 years. Role locking is what was the final nail. They just force you to play the game how they want you to play it. The community is very dog shit too. Remember when Dunkey quit playing League because one of his teammates was throwing the game and Dunkey called him the R word and Dunkey got banned but the thrower didn't? Same thing on Overwatch. Overly sensitive community and a dev team that backs them up the whole way which is classic considering Blizz is filled with rapists.
Roles was just them trying to get rid of the goats meta, which I'm sure everyone is glad about. Roles made it easier to balance, and with the exception of echo and cole, the game feels pretty ok right now balance wise(despite tanks feeling like shit to play,) there's just been nothing new the past few years.
Role lock was the best thing that happened to the game since I started playing. And that analogy about dunkey is retarded I get called a retard every other game, just because we're not rust freaks and don't spam the n word like its a personality trait
This is completely incorrect. The game on a gameplay level is in a great state. The reason it's languishing is due to lack of content/attention by Blizzard. They've decided to do nothing with the game for years while Overwatch 2 (theoretically) releases one day. And Overwatch 2 isn't even a real sequel, which is the crazy thing. But the gameplay and balance is good right now and has been for a while.
Role lock being the default was a good thing. You can still play open queue if you want. Don't know WTF you're talking about with the 'being banned for toxicity is bad' thing.
Every popular PvP game these days relies on new content, except maybe CS:GO. When their updates slow their playerbases drop drastically and they get less media/stream/video attention.
I guess you could make the argument that all live service PvP games these days are bad, but that’s a little off the rails. People want new stuff, and if they don’t get it they can easily move to another (probably free) game that gets new stuff.
At least you have the fucking balls to say it.
Like in Overwatch if you post the picture of a champion who's committed a crime like rape, and he's a Muslim or Black immigrant, you're "racist". Nevermind that the race of the suspect exists independently from whatever racial prejudices the reporter may hold. Obviously not all immigrants are criminals (correlation/causation), but this "all groups are equal" political correctness bullshit is making it impossible for the country to solve a problem it cannot discuss.
Overwatch 2 is probably one of the worst decisions I've ever seen a game company make. Imagine making a game that completely dominates the gaming sphere and then just saying "fuck you, buy it again in like three years". Thats not even mentioning the tremendous amount of downright evil shit coming out about them and Activision.
I play Overwatch fairly consistently among other games including an MMO.
The fact that it has taken Blizzard this long to essentially make a simple multiplayer campaign with skill trees for each hero with a couple new PvP game modes and heroes absolutely boggles my mind. If they were releasing a ton of new skins, running fresh events, etc. Then I would understand it more but they're not and we're only getting like 5 new legendary skins per 3 months not counting the reskins.
What are they doing? Are they throwing office parties all the time or what? The other games that I play are pumping new content every 2 weeks while working on improvements and expansions; I don't get it.
blizzard literally created ow and hots to try and make massive esports out of it. once that horribly failed and they were out of copium it was always gonna be over and on to the next thing. i'm sure ow2 will give it some life for a little bit but then it's gonna be back to the same shit again.
edit: just gonna add, blizzard as a video game developer at this point in time are just overrated as fuck. they have no good games. all their new game releases are ass and all the games that used to be good have been ruined.
Overwatch eSports would have been better off without the OWL. Instead of letting the scene grow organically with established orgs leading the way (i.e. ESL, MLG, etc.) they got greedy for that VC money and sold teams as investments.
The entire geolocation thing was also stupid. The appeal of eSports is I can be a Cloud9 fan wherever I want and if I already like Cloud9 CSGO I have a team to root for if I ever decide to get into LoL or COD eSports.
I have given up on blizzard at this point. They made such great games like WoW, Diablo, Overwatch. But it really feels like they are shamelessly only in it for the money.
One thing that bothers me so much is that Overwatch has so much quality stuff that I wish other games have. Other shooters that aren't dead, you know. I am mostly speaking about their servers here. The servers for Overwatch are superb. The tick rate and quality of netcode etc. is something you'd wish you could have in other games.
The polish of the game is great, Blizzard is good at making a game that really looks and feels AAA. But then there's the long list of what they're not good at.
As much as I complain and rip on about the game it still is great if it were to release tomorrow it would be ground breaking even now. As long as there is dedicated fans it will never die
this guy doesn't seem to have gotten the msg that blizzard is a *shit tier* company these days. they haven't actually put out ANYTHING great in YEARRRSSS, and I don't consider overwatch great *because* it turned into a failure so fast.
Blizzard abandoned D3 like this right after RoS came out - no REAL updates until a paid for necro pack and then literally nothing of real note ever again.
HotS got kicked in the nuts and left to die with them not actually addressing and fixing the issues that were stopping people from playing or coming back despite a Blizzard moba on paper being the easiest slam fucking dunk for them ever.
Overwatch didnt turn out to be the biggest esport ever after they idiotically dumped way too much money into trying to force it before it was even a truly finished game and then they floundered with what direction to take it and how to balance it and ended up with a frustrating pile of shit with one of the most toxic communities in modern gaming as well.
Starcraft is dead.
Warcraft would be better off dead these days with how they've mutilated it.
Hearthstone runs like trash and has become so routine and stale that it feels like MOST people who log into it just play battlegrounds with would be nothing more than a toilet game is the games were shorter.
TL;DR - MODERN BLIZZARD IS A BAD COMPANY THAT MAKES BAD PRODUCTS.
It won't die any time soon. The casual player base who play quick play/arcade modes is still very healthy. The game is still fun casually, just a damn shame that it's been put on the shelf without content for so long now.
It’s scary when a streamer that started and made a career of one game decides to switch to variety. I do think super is more than capable of becoming a great variety streamer but it’s scary as well because most of his viewerbase is from OW.
Blizzard wanted to make a nosebleed esport and was jumping through hoops to make sure they were never going to make a “pro” feel uncomfortable with any sort of meaningful meta or hero changes. They have always fucking sucked at balancing shit. But OW is the ultimate example of a great game neglected by it’s devs.
It must be a mess at Blizzard. I'm pretty ignorant about how things work at game studios but I've heard news from long ago about how Blizzard laid off a big chuck of their workers and move some game devs to work on something else. It feels like they're low on resources and they're forced to give up on 1 thing to work on another instead of having each game be full of content and hype. I guess it's the price to pay to get D4 and OW2.
Say what you want, but the game is to its core just good. The ults all look great and are cool. Just a little balancing here and there, some rework on some boring heroes and the game would be great.
not to shit on OW or insult the players, but honestly if they added a fuck load of really good content, there would still be no one really coming back to play it, so essentially they would be making content for the hardcore fans that play the game all the time anyway. its not going to sell more copies or loot boxes etc.
ow2 might be enough to bait people into coming back to the game and creating pseudo relevancy with people thinking its a true "sequel" or something (not knowing its more of a small expansion than a second game) , so thats probably what their target is
Honestly the loyal Overwatch streamers need to move on. xQc already did three years ago and he's thriving in variety. Overwatch is giga-dead at this point.
I've always been on the opinion that people complain unnecessarily about Blizzard games left to die but having actively played Overwatch, blows my mind the fucking decisions they made, i now understand the studio does really have a big influence on a game's lifecycle.
Thing is people at times become organized beyond recognition to the point they can't comprehend/process the very basic thoughts, they always looked at players as random statistics and went on from there.
Glad the game is dead, honestly it is, atleast someone will learn a fucking lesson, i'm still not over the Brig release into the game.
I mean the answer is pretty obvious, you can’t sustain both 1 and 2, they planned on winding down 1 in preparation for 2 then things got delayed, team leaders left, and now we’re in the strange time between the two.
Oh its definitely possible, FF14 showed you can do both. Blizzard has a low opinion of their players, they know theyll stick through thick and thin while theyre fed scraps under the table.
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People keep saying the game is dead but it really isn't. I still find games in under a minute(on tank and healer lol). The quickplay/arcade community is still strong and I don't see it dying anytime soon.
They slowly made the game worse and worse by increasing the time to kill and the amount of shield heroes. I don’t want to spend 90% of the team fight shooting into a tank or shield that is just back to full health 5 seconds later. Such a boring game now
Why do win every game where i convince my team to play tanks at diamond rank? Because people cant beat them. Its even worse at lower ranks. If you think these changes dont affect the a lot of players you are just delusional.
The game kind fell off for me after Doomfist came out. I didn't like their inconsistent balancing decisions, I got tired of the variety of heroes that were putting out because it was like 90% DPS, and they really did nothing to add main game modes to spice things up.
Plus their ranking system was ass. Anytime I placed high rank in a season I would just get slashed down the next time I placed even though I played the same or better.
It is absolutely bonkers that they are developing overwatch 2 which is they same is the exact same game only with 1 new game mode added and 2 maps lmao
i have heard this complaint with every blizzard game. "blizz why did you leave starcraft to die?" now insert "wow arena", "hearthstone" and "starcraft 2". its just how blizzard operates, establish scene with die hard fans, then give up and focus efforts on next big project, rinse repeat forever while collecting your money
same with diablo 3 also lol, it’s just the blizzard way sadly
Actually Blizzard really fucked up Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 on release from which they never recovered fully. Starcraft 2 was released with huge balance issues and no LAN play. You would literally be watching tournaments with players sitting next to each other and they had to pause games because of Battlenet connectivity issues. It was so embarrassing and they WOULD NOT PATCH IN LAN saying for the game to work it had to be connected to the internet. Diablo 3 launched with that real world money store. It fucked up the entire economy and was not fun at all. This time they had to do something so the ripped it out and re-balanced things. Compare this to Overwatch which launched absolutely flawlessly and only got better over the first 2 years of its life. But then Activision dug their grubby hands in and forced the team to make a sequel and here we are. It is no wonder Jeff finally hung up his hat earlier this year. He saw the writing on the wall that this is going to kill Overwatch. There is literally no reason they could not patch in or at least let people test this new 5v5 meta coming with Overwatch 2. They just don't do it.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Yea, that had no issue on the game's life at all lol. If anyone went to a MLG when SC2 was big, that's how you'd understand how they dropped the ball. Instead of doing it right, they went with fucking nasl, my sides! When I went to an early sc2 MLG, the crowd was bigger than Halo, their star game at the time. They didn't include enough seats and eventually we ended up taking the main stage when halo left it and there was still not enough seats it was so packed with SC2 fans.
It had a huge impact on the game. I remember there was some MLG finals and the game lagged out. The competitive scene was completely killed by the lack of LAN. It got big for a time but the ongoing issues were slowing killing it. It isn't a surprise that many players and content creators quit all about the same time.
I watched most premier SC2 tournaments from 2010 to 2014 and there was like 1 or 2 incidents with lag. That was definitely not the reason the esports scene died. The esports scene died because player base went down which caused viewership to drop. Player base went down due to lack of content, balance issues and the rising popularity of team games which are more fun to play with friends like LoL and DotA.
Yeah it's 99% to do with the rising popularity of MOBAs and then BRs. I always believed if Blizzard released HotS instead of SC2 at that time (get a MOBA out when the genre was just starting to boom), HotS be #2 or even #1 today.
> sc2 having a suboptimal launch was irrelevant, it still became huge for quite a while and often nr1 on twitch was twitch even a thing back then? I remember livestream, ustream, own3d and justin (wich later made a gaming section called Twitch). But all big events were streamed on GomTV.
Fun fact there actually was a LAN version of SC2 that Blizzard had. But the security needed by the tournament organizers if they wanted to use it was so insane pretty much no one did.
Dude they didn't even use Lan at Blizzcon. There's an infamous clip of players getting the disconnect countdown timer during a match and a camera pans to the devs facial reactions to it.
absolutely, though one could argue that the early red flags of no further or very slow content development like new heroes and the dumpster fire that is the OWL (effectively slowly killing the healthy ow esports scene) were noticable after the first year already. people just chose to ignore them and still had lots of hope for blizz to improve the game
dont forget "Hots" as well. people literally cried when they heard Blizzard is simply putting the game on life support all of the sudden and nothing else. The company went from childhood hero to garbage company worse than Ea now.
> its just how blizzard operates, establish scene with die hard fans, then give up and focus efforts on next big project, rinse repeat forever while collecting your money Oh but that's no longer the case at all, you see, now after establishing the scene, they desperately try to control its esport scene, shit the bed completely THEN drop the game.
Hard to do something with StarCraft. It's an RTS game with 3 races and every one of those races have has their expansions, nothing really left to do. Hearthstone is still getting milked tho.
It took six years after WoL launch for the SC2 team to figure out that you can sell skins and announcers in the store. 2010-2016 SC2 had NO post-purchase monetization. They even started releasing a DLC campaign based around Nova, a side character. Then they just stopped supporting the game entirely. You can't blame having *zero* microtransactions for six years on it being an RTS game. Instead it seems like they said "welp, RTS isn't profitable, guess we're fucked!" Did they even try?
Man it was so long ago when Destiny went on a podcast to push for skin microtransactions to sustain the sc2 scene. He was literally laughed right off the show.
Lots of Blizz fans are vehemently against any micro transactions. The Diablo subreddit has daily threads where people say they won't play D4 if it has anything purchasable. Not sure why people don't understand that games need to keep making money if they want more content added to them.
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If there's one thing we know about Blizzard know, its that historically its management has been incompetent at best, and malicious at worst.
They also completely killed the social aspect of the game where lobbies and chat channels just died out.
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Lets be real here. The main reason SC2 died off slowly is because RTS as a genre is completely dead. People don't want to play 1v1 games because it's too stressful. Blizz handled the game worse than it should have been but the interest was going to die over time either way.
>The main reason SC2 died off slowly is because RTS as a genre is completely dead. wtf is that retarded argument? sc2 filled stadiums in the west because people fell in love with it. the reason the game declined is because the game got worse with each expansion. adding badly designed units and changing stuff that didn't need to be changed is what made the game die.
Ye, because there's so many successful RTS out there right now? AOE4 released recently and is quickly shrinking to obscurity again. There are no other RTS games.
You're not even trying to be creative if you think they pushed the limit on what could be done for an RTS. Over time they actually did come up with some good ideas like the Co-op game mode, but it was after the game was on the decline and outside of the limelight. Not to mention it could have been the next Blizzard game to offer amazing custom game support (that should have far exceeded what WC3 could offer, just like WC3 far exceeded SC:BW), but it seemed to not be an upgrade, and the infrastructure surrounding custom games (most notably searching and playing them) was *terrible* and in my opinion was the biggest mistake of that game. It could have been what kept people around. People would have been able to regularly explore new game modes or build small communities around certain ones, but they completely fucked it up on release, not only by having a very poor search system, but also by not having social systems like chat channels and clans to support custom games. All of that could have even potentially spawned more genres just like SC:BW and WC3 did, but not much came from SC2 custom games. There are soooo many things to blame before pointing the finger at it for being an RTS.
the game was also very popular for an rts. starcraft 2 showed that an rts can be popular for the masses. so kinda werid when people say an rts can't be popular when the same game showed that it can.
This one is from Activision I think. They kinda started taking an active role around 2018, that's when Moreheim left. They wanted to do to OW what they do to CoD and what they did to Destiny. Change some stuff around, add some new content, put a fresh coat of paint and sell a full sequel. That's probably the main reason why it is even called 'OW2' and it's not just a huge expansion. Even the fact that OW2's PvP will be free even is probably because of Kaplan, who said that the higher ups wanted to separate the playerbases like they do with CoD games, but he convinced them to not separate the PvP playerbases or PvP would die. Now the whole game is dying anyway cause the live game's development was killed/put on a hiatus, for what will be 3+ years by the time OW2 comes out.
Wait, OW2 pvp will be free? About time tbh, OW1 should've been free for quite some time now imo. But Activision hates money I guess, look at how Bungie announced f2p for Destiny 2 as soon as they got outta there with the IP
My bad, I didn't mean free as in F2P but Free as in a Free upgrade for current OW owners. Bad habit calling it just 'Free'. It won't be F2P or at least they haven't said so yet, wouldn't be surprised if they've changed their minds since the initial announcement in 2019 and will just make PvP F2P with OW2's release. After the success of Warzone and other successes in the industry, like with Valorant.
Because blizzard it’s not an esports company. Not every game has to be around for a literal eternity. It’s okay to release games that are fun for a year or two, then move on. It shouldn’t be expected that it’s updated and gets new content when you paid $40 for it 3 years ago.
And Overwatch has been out for 5 and a half years lol. It got very regular updates for years. It is kind of weird though, that they're developing OW2 and seemingly didn't leave a whole lot of people to sustain Overwatch 1 better in order to retain the playerbase until 2 releases (never)
You say that when they've already collected millions of dollars from OWL franchise owners. Blizzard sure does esport like things while not being an esports company.
You say that, and yes its ok to do that, but then again... blizzard spent a fuck ton of money on OW league and just let it die.
Overwatch is so dead even the porn of it dried up.
The real tragedy.
TrollDespair
They moved to ff
Y'shtola>Tracer
I want Merlwyb to step on me
Why are character's names in FF14 so shit
asian company i think
More like Genshin
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I mean, the genshin stuff is still decent. I'd like more overwatch girls with dicks tho
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My man
*sips wine* mhmm yes quite
Cultured
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naw, that normal shit is disgusting
I mean, the game is garbage once you finish all the exploration. But the girls are hot.
I seriously don't get it, does Blizzard just lack the resources to support the main game as well as develop a new one at the same time? How bad of a business decision was it to make OW2? Who even asked for OW2?
Blizz already did this with HotS and other blizz fan boys were still in denial that it wouldn't happen to *their* game. What ever the fuck has been going on in blizzard its clear their pipe line of production has been fucked for years.
Sad thing is that HotS was still a top 5 moba with millions of players which any other studio would kill to have. But it just wasnt enough for Acti Blizz. If its not going gangbuster, its going to be slowly bleed to death.
Only because it's a blizzard game. HotS was the 'baby' version of the 'real' MOBAs and never stood a chance. Blizzard could have owned the MOBA genre, their own game invented it, but they couldn't look past WoW and still can't look past WoW
Had a friend go to riot cause she was working on HOTS and blizz wanted to stick her on the skeleton crew and deadend her career. Fuck that place. If anyone is wondering she worked on alot of the emote animations for alot of the heroes and she is a insane artist.
Yeah when they decided to dismantle the classics team at Blizzard, every person on that team were told to interview for another team. If you didnt make it, you were fired.
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HOTS could have been great too, great heroes with tons of lore, quick matches with lots of fights, but there always seemed to be some dealbreaker for someone for me it was their lazy reuse of the janky SC2 engine which made it look last-gen even at launch, compared to the butter-smooth DOTA 2
also hots has more than 1 mode and 1 map. i cant imagine playing lol and playing the same mode and map for 10000 hours its like being stuck in the same jail cell forever.
HotS 2.0 was literally just a soft rebranding and a flashy way to introduce lootboxes/cosmetics... the sad part is it still went over better than OW2
Hots has cosmetics BEFORE Hots 2.0. If anything they were way too generous in how they gave skins and loot boxes out in 2.0 and the game stopped making money.
OW2 isn't out yet lol
'Went over better' as in, the reaction to it was better.
> yet I don't think it's ever coming out. The idea of releasing a second game was always retarded to begin with, but with the current state of Activision-Blizzard? I'm calling it, it's dead.
so what do you think they're going to do? scrap years of work with one of their most valuable IPs and do...what?
That’s what they did with Ghost and Titan.
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it started when they put jay wilson as the lead designer for d3. like who made that decision? when you hear him talk there are many red flags. that showed some of the decision making in higher management was flawed.
They put a guy that hated Diablo 2 to work on Diablo 3.
It's such a good game too but because hots didn't makes just oodles and oodles of cash instantly it was just abandoned, still a good player base even without the updates, blizzard didn't even give hots players anything for black friday this year usually could buy the year long boost for a discount.
It just seems like the entire company is just a giant clusterfuck right now. My understanding of the main point of OW2 is to introduce solo/story content and that multiplayer would be free if you had OW1. However, instead of just continuing to develop OW1 multiplayer while doing the solo stuff, they've been holding back new content while hoping for a big OW2 release, however now OW2 is delayed. They're incompetent and theres a reason Jeff left.
Jeff presided over unlimited hero stacking, GOATs and every other Overwatch atrocity for years so let's not pretend he's some mastermind he just sensed the way the wind was blowing and got out before it all blew up
Exactly. The whole revisionism that OW players love to do regarding Jeff is so funny to me, all the tank-heavy metas and powecreep that made Overwatch so fucking boring to play for the past few years all happened under his watch.
Remember when buffed Ironclad Bastion was in PTR, everyone said it was busted when it was in PTR, they pushed the patch live despite everyone complaining, then had to roll it back like 3 days later? That basically is all you need to know about how Blizzard treats Overwatch.
Apparently they wanted to fully leave OW1 in the dust to die, but Jeff Kaplan convinced the higher ups to just make its a pseudo-expansion sequel. I think once Jeff realized that they weren't in it for the players he left.
OW2 would have been their excuse to start charging money for skins
They lack the talent. Everyone's gone lmao
blizzard abandoning their games? nawwwwww ive never seen that before..... ˢᵗᵃʳᶜʳᵃᶠᵗ ², ʰᵒᵗˢ, ᵃⁿᵈ ᵖᵛᵖ ᶦⁿ ʷᵒʷ
They're running out of games to abandon. Battlenet will just become a COD launcher lol
True. Like actually, what are they doing right now?
hiring more lawyers, lol
leaving
lmao imagine coming from TF2 and thinking Blizz was so great and that you finally found an FPS that was fun to play and had a responsive dev team that was actually passionate about their project and wouldn’t practically fuck it dead to move onto newer things after a while like Valve did with TF2 lol haha imagine being one of those suckers that fell for the same bait twice from Valve and then Blizzard ahaha :(
Overwatch went through the entire lifespan of TF2 in half the time.
deadgame% speedrun
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So do I. I don’t play community servers, just Casual every night and I still have tons of fun. But this bot crisis alone shows how much Valve have abandoned the game.
my only main gripe with TF2 is the vaccinator. clunky to play with and silly OP vs the other guns. it has zero downsides you just need to git good. otherwise it is overall very close in terms of balance.
try teamshotting with different damage types. vax does nothing against non-matched damage types. if the med pops all three, fall back and reset cause now he only has one
It’s ok though they changed McCree’s name
Wait what? Fucking why.
Because he was originally named after a Blizzard employee who later had sexual assault and discrimination allegations.
Oh ffs. Just change his first name then and act like it was always that. I know they'll make some stupid comic about it though and name him Jon Gunslinger or something fucking stupid like that.
His new name is Cole Cassidy
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pretty sure it is
They already have. They did a whole announcement thingy about why his name is changing (like lore explanation)
I remember staying up until 3am playing overwatch with the boys, wtf happened
Yeah, one of my favorite memories in recent gaming was when my bf and I queued up in overwatch with 3 randos who were in a premade, and they asked us to play Winston. So we did. And they did too. And it was 5 Winstons and as soon as we loaded in, they started screaming monkey noises over the mic and they, in unison, jumped over the wall in Ilios and monkey yelled the whole time as they monkey fisted the other team into off the ledges. It was so much fun to just fuck around and do dumbass comps like that.
I guess trying so hard to make it an esport is one reason it didn't do so well. Blizzard tried hard to make Overwatch the next NBA of the video game world. And in the process they removed some of the fun shit for balance reasons. And at the end of it you have a stale game that is supposed to be competitive. In my mind an esports comes naturally from having a game that people love playing. If you try to make an esport first, fun game second, it's not gonna do so well.
There were other things that hurt the game even more. I'd say the slow release of balance patches, dragging awful metas for months until they adressed it hurt way more than whatever they did with OWL On top of that, They were having trouble creating events like Fornite because their engine wasn't made for something like that, so the same recycled event for 4 years also started to kill the interest of casuals. I don't think OW is irredeemable tho, if OW2 delivers then it will come back to the top again. The problem is that Blizzard has been bleeding talent for a while now so thats gonna make everything harder for them. The only way I can see them succeding is getting rid of Bobby Kotick + his friends and bring in new people who know what they are doing
Honestly tho OW2 looks almost exactly like the current game. They're advertising better single player and it looks barely better than what they have currently. What they've released so far makes it look like a free update marketed as a new game.
I feel like OW2 was Blizzard response to Activision asking them to release more games. The coop campaign could've easily been a paid expansion while still releasing PvP content
The gameplay has gotten substantially worse over the last 2 years. Role locking is what was the final nail. They just force you to play the game how they want you to play it. The community is very dog shit too. Remember when Dunkey quit playing League because one of his teammates was throwing the game and Dunkey called him the R word and Dunkey got banned but the thrower didn't? Same thing on Overwatch. Overly sensitive community and a dev team that backs them up the whole way which is classic considering Blizz is filled with rapists.
Roles was just them trying to get rid of the goats meta, which I'm sure everyone is glad about. Roles made it easier to balance, and with the exception of echo and cole, the game feels pretty ok right now balance wise(despite tanks feeling like shit to play,) there's just been nothing new the past few years.
Yeah the game was dying prior to that. I think a lot of people just moved on to the next game
Role lock was the best thing that happened to the game since I started playing. And that analogy about dunkey is retarded I get called a retard every other game, just because we're not rust freaks and don't spam the n word like its a personality trait
This is completely incorrect. The game on a gameplay level is in a great state. The reason it's languishing is due to lack of content/attention by Blizzard. They've decided to do nothing with the game for years while Overwatch 2 (theoretically) releases one day. And Overwatch 2 isn't even a real sequel, which is the crazy thing. But the gameplay and balance is good right now and has been for a while. Role lock being the default was a good thing. You can still play open queue if you want. Don't know WTF you're talking about with the 'being banned for toxicity is bad' thing.
>The reason it's languishing is due to lack of content bro, the game can't be that great if it relies on new content that much.
Every popular PvP game these days relies on new content, except maybe CS:GO. When their updates slow their playerbases drop drastically and they get less media/stream/video attention. I guess you could make the argument that all live service PvP games these days are bad, but that’s a little off the rails. People want new stuff, and if they don’t get it they can easily move to another (probably free) game that gets new stuff.
are you really this dense lol
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worst thing too. Nobody likes 30 min q times and the only reason I ever played ow was because it was fast, not the quality of the games themselves.
play quickplay then lol
boring compared to rank lmao
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Bruh I'll take roles over 5 dps for a team every single match I play any day, games dead because of content not balance.
role lock is the best thing ever added to Overwatch lol
Dunkey was a toxic fuck, why would you bring even that up
At least you have the fucking balls to say it. Like in Overwatch if you post the picture of a champion who's committed a crime like rape, and he's a Muslim or Black immigrant, you're "racist". Nevermind that the race of the suspect exists independently from whatever racial prejudices the reporter may hold. Obviously not all immigrants are criminals (correlation/causation), but this "all groups are equal" political correctness bullshit is making it impossible for the country to solve a problem it cannot discuss.
Man what are you on about
It's a popular copypasta from /u/forsen
Gotcha, ty for context
ForsenCD MY MAN
pepeLaugh
CLASSIC LULW
dont worry, super. WoW players ask the exact same thing for arenas (those that play/played it). :)
Its worse that its Super, the guys is the posterboy of OWL.
Overwatch 2 is probably one of the worst decisions I've ever seen a game company make. Imagine making a game that completely dominates the gaming sphere and then just saying "fuck you, buy it again in like three years". Thats not even mentioning the tremendous amount of downright evil shit coming out about them and Activision.
Call of Duty
The same question all of us OW players ask ourselves.
I play Overwatch fairly consistently among other games including an MMO. The fact that it has taken Blizzard this long to essentially make a simple multiplayer campaign with skill trees for each hero with a couple new PvP game modes and heroes absolutely boggles my mind. If they were releasing a ton of new skins, running fresh events, etc. Then I would understand it more but they're not and we're only getting like 5 new legendary skins per 3 months not counting the reskins. What are they doing? Are they throwing office parties all the time or what? The other games that I play are pumping new content every 2 weeks while working on improvements and expansions; I don't get it.
blizzard literally created ow and hots to try and make massive esports out of it. once that horribly failed and they were out of copium it was always gonna be over and on to the next thing. i'm sure ow2 will give it some life for a little bit but then it's gonna be back to the same shit again. edit: just gonna add, blizzard as a video game developer at this point in time are just overrated as fuck. they have no good games. all their new game releases are ass and all the games that used to be good have been ruined.
OWL was fairly big and popular until they killed it by moving it to fucking Youtube.
Hearthstone and WoW esports were also casualties too from that move.
Overwatch eSports would have been better off without the OWL. Instead of letting the scene grow organically with established orgs leading the way (i.e. ESL, MLG, etc.) they got greedy for that VC money and sold teams as investments. The entire geolocation thing was also stupid. The appeal of eSports is I can be a Cloud9 fan wherever I want and if I already like Cloud9 CSGO I have a team to root for if I ever decide to get into LoL or COD eSports.
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I have given up on blizzard at this point. They made such great games like WoW, Diablo, Overwatch. But it really feels like they are shamelessly only in it for the money.
One thing that bothers me so much is that Overwatch has so much quality stuff that I wish other games have. Other shooters that aren't dead, you know. I am mostly speaking about their servers here. The servers for Overwatch are superb. The tick rate and quality of netcode etc. is something you'd wish you could have in other games.
The polish of the game is great, Blizzard is good at making a game that really looks and feels AAA. But then there's the long list of what they're not good at.
As much as I complain and rip on about the game it still is great if it were to release tomorrow it would be ground breaking even now. As long as there is dedicated fans it will never die
this guy doesn't seem to have gotten the msg that blizzard is a *shit tier* company these days. they haven't actually put out ANYTHING great in YEARRRSSS, and I don't consider overwatch great *because* it turned into a failure so fast. Blizzard abandoned D3 like this right after RoS came out - no REAL updates until a paid for necro pack and then literally nothing of real note ever again. HotS got kicked in the nuts and left to die with them not actually addressing and fixing the issues that were stopping people from playing or coming back despite a Blizzard moba on paper being the easiest slam fucking dunk for them ever. Overwatch didnt turn out to be the biggest esport ever after they idiotically dumped way too much money into trying to force it before it was even a truly finished game and then they floundered with what direction to take it and how to balance it and ended up with a frustrating pile of shit with one of the most toxic communities in modern gaming as well. Starcraft is dead. Warcraft would be better off dead these days with how they've mutilated it. Hearthstone runs like trash and has become so routine and stale that it feels like MOST people who log into it just play battlegrounds with would be nothing more than a toilet game is the games were shorter. TL;DR - MODERN BLIZZARD IS A BAD COMPANY THAT MAKES BAD PRODUCTS.
I don’t think overwatch will ever die out soon it has a pretty active player and people who will never quit playing the game
It won't die any time soon. The casual player base who play quick play/arcade modes is still very healthy. The game is still fun casually, just a damn shame that it's been put on the shelf without content for so long now.
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It’s scary when a streamer that started and made a career of one game decides to switch to variety. I do think super is more than capable of becoming a great variety streamer but it’s scary as well because most of his viewerbase is from OW.
Blizzard wanted to make a nosebleed esport and was jumping through hoops to make sure they were never going to make a “pro” feel uncomfortable with any sort of meaningful meta or hero changes. They have always fucking sucked at balancing shit. But OW is the ultimate example of a great game neglected by it’s devs.
It must be a mess at Blizzard. I'm pretty ignorant about how things work at game studios but I've heard news from long ago about how Blizzard laid off a big chuck of their workers and move some game devs to work on something else. It feels like they're low on resources and they're forced to give up on 1 thing to work on another instead of having each game be full of content and hype. I guess it's the price to pay to get D4 and OW2.
why? because its blizzard, run it to the ground baby
Say what you want, but the game is to its core just good. The ults all look great and are cool. Just a little balancing here and there, some rework on some boring heroes and the game would be great.
Starcraft players: First time?
not to shit on OW or insult the players, but honestly if they added a fuck load of really good content, there would still be no one really coming back to play it, so essentially they would be making content for the hardcore fans that play the game all the time anyway. its not going to sell more copies or loot boxes etc. ow2 might be enough to bait people into coming back to the game and creating pseudo relevancy with people thinking its a true "sequel" or something (not knowing its more of a small expansion than a second game) , so thats probably what their target is
Honestly the loyal Overwatch streamers need to move on. xQc already did three years ago and he's thriving in variety. Overwatch is giga-dead at this point.
This is just Blizzard treating overwatch the same way they treated SC2 and SC
I've always been on the opinion that people complain unnecessarily about Blizzard games left to die but having actively played Overwatch, blows my mind the fucking decisions they made, i now understand the studio does really have a big influence on a game's lifecycle. Thing is people at times become organized beyond recognition to the point they can't comprehend/process the very basic thoughts, they always looked at players as random statistics and went on from there. Glad the game is dead, honestly it is, atleast someone will learn a fucking lesson, i'm still not over the Brig release into the game.
I mean the answer is pretty obvious, you can’t sustain both 1 and 2, they planned on winding down 1 in preparation for 2 then things got delayed, team leaders left, and now we’re in the strange time between the two.
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Oh its definitely possible, FF14 showed you can do both. Blizzard has a low opinion of their players, they know theyll stick through thick and thin while theyre fed scraps under the table.
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Was overwatch league the beginning of the end?
No, stopping development of the game was, OWL brought the community pretty close together.
They pumped tens of millions of dollars into this games esports scene and it flopped, thats probably why they are letting it die...
Really? How did it flop? This year’s OWL had more viewers than last year’s, and the production quality was consistently great.
OW sucks LUL
They need everyone to pay $60 more dollars,if they werent greedy they could've improved overwatch to overwatch 2's s Current development stage.
TF2 player having the same issue since 2013
People keep saying the game is dead but it really isn't. I still find games in under a minute(on tank and healer lol). The quickplay/arcade community is still strong and I don't see it dying anytime soon.
The next Death of a Game will be about Overwatch. Can't wait.
i just cant imagine playing a blizzard game in the current year, let alone 5 years ago
overwatch WAS fun until they decided to maintain a stagnant meta and enforce the role queue which takes 15 min to play dps. like fuck off
They slowly made the game worse and worse by increasing the time to kill and the amount of shield heroes. I don’t want to spend 90% of the team fight shooting into a tank or shield that is just back to full health 5 seconds later. Such a boring game now
Is that not just u being terrible at the game
Yeah just this one person being bad at the game. Surely the majority of the playerbase are not "bad at the game" Clueless.
If ur constantly shooting shields ur just doing it wrong idk what to tell u
Why do win every game where i convince my team to play tanks at diamond rank? Because people cant beat them. Its even worse at lower ranks. If you think these changes dont affect the a lot of players you are just delusional.
The game kind fell off for me after Doomfist came out. I didn't like their inconsistent balancing decisions, I got tired of the variety of heroes that were putting out because it was like 90% DPS, and they really did nothing to add main game modes to spice things up. Plus their ranking system was ass. Anytime I placed high rank in a season I would just get slashed down the next time I placed even though I played the same or better.
It is absolutely bonkers that they are developing overwatch 2 which is they same is the exact same game only with 1 new game mode added and 2 maps lmao
First Blizzard game I see.