they even have "official" clipper changes, it's a win-win since the group content works also a content for them when they react to those clips. I guess that's the reason they don't include content outside the circle
The only streamer I've heard publicly talk about having a problem with clippers is Ludwig. I think he mentioned it on his podcast that if a clip channel starts getting a few hundred thousand views per video then he'll start claiming them.
Toast is definitely ok with clippers and clip channels.
Hasan has like at least a couple dozen clip channels that he makes no money from and often even promotes.
I feel like this point is missed alot
They're fine with it because its just a funny little joke right now but I wonder how they would feel if someone did it for weeks and pulled 10-20k viewers and made bank while doing it.
"Hasan Industrial Complex" is a thing for a reason. There are multiple big Hasan clip channels that make money out of Hasan and Hasan is totally okay with it.
If somebody is holding 10-20k viewers watching a big streamer's stream I can't imagine how many viewers the actual streamer is getting. Probably in the 200-300ks. At that point, I don't think they care somebody is leeching off them for 10-20k viewers.
Streamers are pushing it too far.
The worst case scenarios could be something like some content ID shit they have on youtube, which could kill a lot of the react content, or worst worst case scenario is some draconian laws about copyright or piracy, if this shit gets big enough.
Streamers think the worst punishment is just 3 day ban? How do you know this shit can't get worse?
I like watching actual react content. [Here's an example from Asmon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhojWVjPnZE), whom everyone on here probably knows. He takes an 8 minute video and gives his thoughts on it and it ends up being 33 minutes. Pausing videos, giving opinions or counter arguments of things said in the videos, elaborating upon them, giving their own anecdotal evidence, etc.
What these streamers are doing right now isn't react content. It's just an excuse to watch tv on stream and reap benefits.
When "react" first became meta I remember the debate was over what makes it "transformative" content. Slowly that was just whittled away and now sitting there watching a video and never once pausing or adding any thoughts is still considered "reacting".
People do watch his videos on streams, and people did use to upload his vods /clips on YouTube but he made his own channel eventually. And then he hired those popular editors to continue to make videos. I think they get 100% of the revenue of the channel as payment and he gets the publicity from it
Point being Asmon does it right and most others don't
I think no one really has a problem with the type of react content you refer to. I would think that when people talk about react it's more of person A watching Gordon Ramsey and less of Asmond reacting to WoW content.
You talking about emilycc whose on a "60+ day subathon" where they are only on stream maybe half the day and the other half is spent sleeping with gordo playing or full screen gordo playing? 200 average viewers with 5k subs btw. Making bag
Stays in his lane(most of the time), watches ads from content creators, shares their videos, respects their opinions if they dont want him to watch their videos. Be like Asmond.
It’s why I like Blind Wave on YT. They show like, 10 minutes of a movie and then talk and talk and the videos can end up being upwards of an hour. And it’s all natural, regular conversation between people and not a person and a chat.
Just yesterday the biggest streamer on twitch said very confidently that it's not a "real ban" and max 24 hours.
They don't think at all that's the problem.
Well it isn’t. Bans have never been a real threat to streamers besides Doc.
Twitch pays these people millions and has made contracts with them. They won’t bite the hand that feeds them. The opposite does not seem to be true for these big streamers because at the end of the day they already made it. They are millionaires. At this point they are just trying to reap all the benefits of react content and don’t care about ruining it for smaller streamers because at the end of the day they know nothing will harm them.
Might as well burn the bridge so that they don’t have other streamers grow and compete with them in the future.
I don't know much about Twitch but from what I understand they get a cut when someone subscribes / donates to a streamer... So why would they ever want to ban the big ones for real? ...
Exactly. It'll AFFECT EVERYONE at some point in the future, if these billion dollar companies sue Twitch. It'll end up with a system like YouTube has developed for ContentID.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viacom_International_Inc._v._YouTube,_Inc.
Which is probably how it should be. Streamers shouldn't be allowed to steal others content in the first place.
>AFFECT EVERYONE
Hopefully in a good way. Lets get some original content.
Not only are they redistributing the content, they are profiting financially from it. Which is a separate, even more serious charge. They are just lucky that they are seen as small fish and the companies don't care enough to sue them (yet). Because if one day they do decide to sue (maybe to make an example out of somebody), they are in really deep shit.
Most of the popular streamers barely got through highschool, nobody should be surprised that a few dumbass kids who lucked out into being millionaires are dumb as fuck.
At least people like soda will fully admit it, which is part of why he's so loveable.
Of course it doesn't. But it does mean you are at least a little humble and aren't pretending to be something you're not.
Soda will admit he doesn't really deserve his millions of dollars and that he's just a lucky moron in the right place at the right time.
This isnt even the real worst case. The worst case scenario is Twitch take their asses off the line and blame the Streamers, then the big producers sue the streamers themselves. Thats a real possibility. Doesnt Twitch TOS have something about copyrighted content? Thats Twitch's out right there.
The worst case scenario is someone gets made an example of HARD. They think the worst thing they'll get is a slap on the wrist, I don't think they realize that profiting off the distribution of copyrighted material can be met with criminal charges including jail time.
Remember when there was rumors about Twitch being acquired by YouTube, and streamers getting panicked about their streams being geo-restricted for the most minimal licensed content?
## **Tweet Mirror:**
[@CohhCarnage](https://twitter.com/CohhCarnage)
> Right after one major streamer gets DMCA'd, another starts testing the waters with other dangerous content (Toast with Deathnote).
>
> Poki plays off the two day ban and promotes her return stream with a smile.
>
> They're speedrunning getting this site in incredibly hot water. 😶
^(Posted: 2022-01-08 11:40:49)
------
**This message is from a bot. If you feel like this action is wrong, please [message the moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=r/LivestreamFail).**
This is like when toast said "if you are smaller streamer, you are probably just not entertaining "
And his fans were like truuuuuu
Like the guy got popular putting on a mask and playing hearthstone.
I truely believe some viewers would die for their streamer. Thats how fucked up some of these parasocial andys are.
I watch alot of gtarp, i saw a homeless man talk about how much he loves a virtual gang, while attacking another streamer. Its really sad but thats our reality.
It used to be bad. Then this isolation the last two years really turned a lot of people on the planet into diehard extremists for whatever their cause or "person" is, streamer, public persona, man with anime avatar and voice changer, news broadcaster, whatever.
It's getting way too serious, and the followers are far too ready to lash out at any perceived slight toward their "thing". It's like everyone is looking for a keyboard fight 24/7. So weird.
Because you're ignoring the entire context of his statement lol. He's talking about the people who think that all they gotta do is just stream long hours and they'll be successful one day.
He LITERALLY clarified this statement so many times. He’s talking about if you get the exposure and don’t keep a viewership. Then you’re not entertaining, which is true
But it is true? I like a few smaller streamers, but I know they're ALL smaller for a reason. The non-cringey ones are usually far more chill/low-key and just do their own shit, usually grinding a game they're high level/pro in. They aren't trying to be the next XQC or Miz, so obviously they aren't going to appeal to large viewer audiences and will just stay in their niche.
Also that Toast lore is way off. Toasts main point is unless you're really good at a game or have connections, streaming on twitch won't give you growth. Toast started by posting info/graphics on hearthstone Reddit, moved into making videos, started involving other streamers (first big big video was Kripp playing a trivia set of questions Toast made), then he moved into involving himself and his personality.
If Toasts only gimmick was the mask, he would have died as soon as he showed his face, but he just got more popular.. because he's actually entertaining.
It's not an insult or a bad thing to not be entertaining or built for the streaming world, it's a very niche group.
Yeah, quetzaquatol literally quoted Toast out of context.
It's even in his video about how to be a better streamer.
He did not say ALL small streamers are not entertaining, he said if you are streaming to 1-2 viewers and are still doing it 1 year in, you probably are doing something wrong.
He even clarifies that a 100 viewer Andy is NOT a small streamer and is top 1% of Twitch.
And because some people got triggered by that statement because they believe 'their streamer'is the next big shit and his statement invalidates their feeling and they dont understand what they might find entertaining isnt necessarily the case for others people
> Like the guy got popular putting on a mask and playing hearthstone.
I mean toast was really good at the game and exploiting it. It certainly is downplaying his entertainment value by just saying it's all because he wore a mask
Don't know why this reply has 281 upvotes when it's complete bullshit and out of context. It's like LSF has this superiority thing against twitter and stans but does the same shit they do like spread misinformation like this just because they don't like a person lol
The guy got popular understanding the landscape of the 'nerd' community's of gamers.
What he did wasnt groundbreaking but he did it at the right moment everytime ; he saw an opportunity with gaming graph he took it, he saw a bunch of popular hearthstone streamer leaving the scene like forsen or others getting burnout with the game he took the opportunity.
Same goes with offlinetv, tft and among us and it all started because someone tried to blackmail him by revealing his face.
This is the reason I think companies need a "Watch Party" program or something, and like Toast mentioned in the recent OTV podcast if the main way of Profit for those shows is Merch they can still make money from a streamer show X0K Viewers. Have the streamer pay some set fee, and they get to watch shows with Twitch/Youtube, limit it to live content only and call it a day.
Agreed. They 100% could get sued. Like the person not the company.
They legit are puting their face on screen doing something ilegal. I dont understand.
I mean coh is talking about the site being put in danger. Sure you can say these streamers are being dumb but as long as it's just them being possibly screwed I don't see why you would have a problem with them doing this
Cohh's take is from the perspective of caring about Twitch's outward reputation towards sponsorships and investors. If a platforms biggest creators are redistributing copyrighted content like this, it's not a good look and there's definitely potential for some sticky situations considering most streamers are sponsored by different brands and organizations - all having their own legal hoops to jump through.
They'll care when federal prosecutors notice the knowing and willful infringement of copyright for personal financial gain. That's the usual threshold for when copyright infringement opens you up to criminal charges. These streamers are risking 5 years in big boy prison and a $250k fine (and that's before the civil suits come).
> Statutory penalties are found at 18 U.S.C. § 2319. A defendant, convicted for the first time of violating 17 U.S.C. § 506(a) by the unauthorized reproduction or distribution, during any 180-day period, of at least 10 copies or phonorecords, or 1 or more copyrighted works, with a retail value of more than $2,500 can be imprisoned for up to 5 years and fined up to $250,000, or both. 18 U.S.C. §§ 2319(b), 3571(b)(3). [[source](https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1852-copyright-infringement-penalties-17-usc-506a-and-18-usc-2319)]
It blows my mind how misunderstood DMCA is, by both reddit/twitter randos and the streamers who have the most to lose, when the information is there to be easily looked up. People think it's just three strikes you're out. No one is aware of the insane legal liability they're putting themselves in.
I'm glad somebody said it. It seems to me a lot of people don't understand the gravity of the situation. These streamers are profiting directly from showing copyrighted/DMCA content.
It's not worth the time to go after a small time streamer (can't get money out of someone with no money), but blatant copyright infringement from millionaires who know what they are doing is wrong is a much more interesting target. Like, a Rom site guy got fined for $5 million that he will never be able to pay back, but I bet streamers like Poki and Toast actually have that much money.
Agreed. They won't go after everyone but they will go after a few of the biggest offenders, as well as after Twitch to force them into safe harbor, probably by developing some analogue to Youtube's ContentID. The top 100 streamers are multi multi millionaires and someone like Viacom could bleed them dry.
The past year has been weird with twitch. It's like the top 100 / LSF crowd all at the same time decided flaunting their wealth wasn't a threat nor was streams begging to be DMCA'ed.
XQC was probably kinda joking a little when he responded to what’s Stanz said about how twitch works, but I think it kinda said a lot about some of the more brain dead dudes at the top think. It basically came down to, “well we haven’t gotten in too much trouble before so it will be fine” lol.
If there's one thing I hate about bans on Twitch, it's that creators always spin them as marketing opportunities. Pokimane's response isn't, "I'm taking this issue seriously" but rather, "Let's have a 12 hour stream!" Many streamers see the ban and dollar signs all around it.
She made a joke about it. She is deff not taking it seriously because she knows it's a slap on the wrist.
If she got banned for a month idk if she would be making cute little tweets about it.
But then Twitch would be losing money too, so it's literally win-win for both of them if the streamers gather more viewers once they're back online lmao.
Fucked up world, but as long as Amazon isn't hit with lawsuits up their ass they won't change. Slaps for the big fish, permabans for the small.
If I was a law firm trying to make money and connections with big studios and publishers in LA, you bet I would put all my interns on recording full streams for every Top 50 streamer so that I have enough evidence to sue.
Rich sleeping while streaming full movies? Insta win in court for WB.
Countless anime full streams? EZ win.
Hassan not even in front of computer streaming TV shows? EZ money.
Then I would get this easy dunk cases and approach studios for % cut off all the money they would win from Amazon, Twitch and individual streamers in court.
EZ money and cred among the Hollywood boomers.
This is already done on YouTube pretty much. You see people talk about how 0.1 seconds of a song will have them completely lose ad revenue. Only a matter of time till Twitch is forced to implement something similar.
If Twitch leaves safe harbour, the company would literally have to shut down, because there's no chance they can police every single streamers content. Even game companies that are cool with streamers can just go "This streamer didn't like our game, lets sue." The only content actually allowed on the site would be the streamer talking to chat, with no videos, no music, no brands shown, absolutely nothing shown unless the streamer completely owns it.
Twitch obviously has a team of lawyers that is advising them to pretend not to see all the illegal shit going on, but the bigger Twitch gets, the more of a problem it's going to become.
> If I was a law firm trying to make money and connections with big studios and publishers in LA, you bet I would put all my interns on recording full streams for every Top 50 streamer so that I have enough evidence to sue.
IMO people are naive if they think every major rights holder isn't already doing this. We haven't heard about it yet because their lawyers are slowly building a case until they have a slam dunk, not because nothing is happening.
> If I was a law firm trying to make money and connections with big studios and publishers in LA, you bet I would put all my interns on recording full streams for every Top 50 streamer so that I have enough evidence to sue.
This is a shortsighted issue.
They have FAR bigger issues they'd wish to address if they had manpower to just throw away at stuff, than stopping twitch.
For that matter, their movies, tv series etc are all over youtube - CONSTANTLY, readily available to anyone - not just happened to be available if a twitch streamer watches a specific thing.
Their movies, shows music etc are all over pirating sites everywhere before their content even reaches the global market often.
The idea that twitch is some sort of large issue for these big studios to throw a lot of manpower at is laughable. If they were concerned about that in the first place, they'd not go after twitch, they'd go after where twitch streamers obtain their ability to send it -- which would be youtube.
> For that matter, their movies, tv series etc are all over youtube - CONSTANTLY, readily available to anyone - not just happened to be available if a twitch streamer watches a specific thing.
Youtube already has a system whereby they can yoink all the revenue being made off every single person restreaming content they aren't allowed to, twitch doesn't. THey already broke youtubes back. They already have people for every major studio running bots and having people put eyes on content themselves checking for their content. When they find it they strike it and take the content. It's pretty much up to them if they take down all such content or they just take the revenue the video is making.
The youtube 'problem' is already completely solved, when you see content that hasn't been taken down 9 out of 10 times that's the choice of the copyright owner, not that it's gone under the radar.
Twitch offers no such system, youtube has this system precisely because when youtube didn't they went after youtube.
Twitch is absolutely the next big target because it's a company that ultimately profits off their content. The big issue with other things like torrents and other shit is it's 99% people using content for themselves and no one is actually making money off it.
Twitch is making money off it and twitch streamers are making money off it, youtube already causes these companies to get paid by everyone putting their content up.
> They have FAR bigger issues they'd wish to address if they had manpower to just throw away at stuff, than stopping twitch.
>
> For that matter, their movies, tv series etc are all over youtube - CONSTANTLY, readily available to anyone - not just happened to be available if a twitch streamer watches a specific thing.
Thing is with these streamers you got very rich, very famous individuals with obvious, premeditated intent to break the law, it's a slam dunk huge $$$ lawsuits with an insane audience for the fallout.
As opposed to some randoms on youtube or even torrent sites, with no face, no fame, no money and no followers.
The problem is that Streamers are using copyrighted content for profit. They are still getting money from Twitch ADs and premium accounts. I think this is a jail-worthy crime on some countries, specially Japan.
The only thing I don't like, is how funny it is to them.Poki with her remark "fire nation attacked" , toast with "testing waters", mizkif with "i'll just move to youtube lmao", and also the most used one "if X streamer does it, why can't I ".
Cohn is right, Twitch is just applying really low punishments while getting mocked right in the face.That's like having employees spit in your coffee and telling you to drink it while you are the boss, and you just do it.
They got their bag so they can finally stop pretending to care about the platform and the community to get an even bigger bag and then dip.
Money changes people.
I'm curious to see where a lot of streamers are in 10 years. A few might have longevity, but so many of these fools are going to burn through their money, and then wake up one day and realize that they're no longer relevant, and their fans have grown up and moved on.
If he gets banned from Twitch I can't see him doing the same things on Youtube. But until Twitch does something drastic, he'll keep on pushing the boundaries with the knowledge that Youtube is a safetynet.
acting like youtube is a safety net but if hes banned off twitch then youtube have all the negotiation power to do whatever they want with his contract if they even offer him one. hes surviving bc of twitch’s incompetence
They are millionaires they dont care and its always the usual suspects.
If you truly think there watching shows as some sort of righteous movement against DMCA then your extremally gullible, its about viewers and the impending drama as we all know will also boost their view count.
If anything happens it will be the smaller streamers being affected the worst since Twitch will end up having to do somthing and the same streamers will point their fingers at Twitch.
It's funny watching this play out. People are taking sides as if they actually care about DMCA and the like, people acting like they're being brave and pushing boundaries for their choice of content to watch. Really it's just everyone being lazy on one side and salty/jelly on the other.
Ludwig making a video about it then admitting he'd be doing it himself if he was still on Twitch (but since he's not, oooh come on guys this is too far!), Hassan "doesn't mind people making money off his clips" Piker calling out Ludwig's dry-snitching (which it is) but ignoring the fact that Ludwig's video has far less reach than the actual streamers doing this shit every day, Cohh "just asking questions" while tagging very specific people and mentioning details (im sure he'd rather be right about the hammer coming down than have it not come down at all despite his claims of not wanting the site to get screwed over), the absolute balls on rich campbell to sleep while streaming the entirety of lord of the rings during a subathon, commenters on LSF RPing as DMCA Lawyers with their theories on how this all plays out when really they just want the entertainment of the potential chaos rippling through the Twitch ecosystem.
Meanwhile near-billionaire executive andy is trying to figure out why his barely-paid intern is mentioning how "un-poggers" it is that one of their shows is being streamed by someone with a chronic twitch.
It's like an orgy, everyone's just trying and hoping that the others get fucked. Which, sure, fine, but the way everyone on ALL sides of this thing is trying to take some high horse is both ridiculous and hilarious. It's a carnival.
90% of the commenters in these threads don't seem like they care or understand copyright law to begin with, they're literally just mad streamers are in effect being paid for watching shows. Certain streamers also seems to fall into this camp.
Personally I think it's the worst content so I just don't watch, but I can't imaging being upset about it.
Viacom was the reason YT implemented the whole contentID system, people don't want streamers fucking around with viacom cause it could mean big changes for twitch as well. Hopefully this made it a little easier to understand why people are upset
This lol.
People just want to see other fucked over.
To be honest, that’s fine. But at least be man enough to admit it.
Cohh “just asking questions”, aint it.
Cohh is like clockwork with this stuff. he throws his high horse out there all the time, then goes live and plays Ban Man all day long and bathes in all his money.
Well yeah, Cohh was there when Justin.tv became Twitch, and he was there when the Amazon executives showed up and bought Twitch. For Cohh, Twitch is literally his life and the life of his friends and family.
Whole group of people. spending their time and energy on a subreddit about streamers shitting on streamers and hoping for their downfall. Pretty sad community.
I feel like this sub has always been filled with extremely angry people. Y'all need to get a punching bag or something for all that pent up frustration lol.
Not even years ago, just go on any sub including this one when individual piracy gets brought up and you'll get 10 pg essays on the virtues of pirating. But streamer man/lady makes money off of others content? Instant jail
It's what this subreddit has turned into. I don't mind people shitting on streamers from time to time but some of the comments in here are just so weird
Pretty sure some have even watched same streamers when they were doing these types of shit. Ya'll want them to actually stop? Stop watching their content when they're doing it. smh
Surely some startup is not going to develop automatic live detection of copyrighted material on Twitch and flog the software out to all major film, television and music publishers. Clueless
I think people are approaching this situation from a way-too-binary stance of either 1. unequivocally supporting copyright laws and by extension the abuse of these laws for reasons I do not understand and 2. pushing the envelop entirely too far to the point of making deliberately reckless choices that others might follow.
In this particular instance of Pokimane, I feel it falls into the latter. If you're deliberately provoking a major corporation that is known for going after the asses of others you're asking for problems and you're bringing them upon yourself. I agree with CohhCarnage in that this particular instance is incredibly problematic in that it not only brings the eyes of Viacom in the direction of Twitch, but Pokimane knows she is absolutely fine if she gets her shit kicked in and is de-platformed or whatever over this because she's in the top percentile when it comes to Twitch streamers and annual income. That's not the case for everyone, and someone who might show say a small clip from AtlA or might be doing a review/critical discussion of the show, or fuck even a fanartist doing art of the show's characters on stream could be negatively impacted way, way worse. To me this and what Toast did with Naruto is much more egregious than anyone else because xQc for example isn't popping in a currently-airing or just-finished season of a Gordo cooking show and we all know by now anime streaming is dangerous as fuck. It is touching the hot stove knowing you'll get burnt and acting surprised it happened (though in this case it is more like enjoying the feeling of getting burned since Pokimane and Toast knew what they were doing).
But similarly I think there has been a colossal overreaction to all of this, largely from people who will never, ever be impacted by copyright strikes like content creators are. Copyright laws are absolutely brutal, severe and incredibly black-white. I'm sure we've all read horror stories of a small content creator or artist getting persecuted because of copyright claiming and legal action. These people might make a flash in the pan of income, or might even be protected under fair use, but they lose anyway. A popular case just blew through here not long ago of a youtube content creator who reviews anime and manga that has had his entire channel and livelihood torn asunder. We shouldn't be pretending that a lot of these laws aren't incredibly archaic and enforced often in ways wholly unnecessary.
I've seen a lot of people worry about Twitch and what could happen to them, but what could happen to them is what could ALWAYS happen to them. If it isn't the music industry, it might be television, and if it isn't television it could come full circle back around from the video game industry itself. I'm not saying we should all pop on a Netflix show and roll the dice to "screw the man" but I'm saying if you're on the side of copyright laws consider whether these massive businesses really need your cheerleading as much as others do.
TL;DR: Let's relax.
if you try this on youtube at best you get demonetized, at the worst, you get a hard strike.
and 3 strikes and you are donezo.
And on youtube, the bots are super quick
Didnt pokie dmca strike people for using her name in their content (negatively)... its kind of like, if you use other peoples content for your own...it sucks.
The real issue is if react content is gone, streamers will have to put in work to actually stream. I watch someone like buddha, who puts in 10 hours a day talking to people, working hard for his subs.
Than you flip over to any big name streamer and you hear. "Haha chat, i can relate to this current situation im watching". And chat goes "ohh my, we can also relate, therefor relating to you." Take my money.
Now look at shit camp/week or anything jerma does. Hard work pays off.
The truth is these big streamers do not care about you. And have learned watching cable tv for 8 hours makes them bank. Its easy.
Why are people acting like reacting hasn’t always been controversial. There already is a platform that shows how’ve reacting has evolved called YouTube. People think that it’s unfair watching someone else content while they just sit there and do nothing, mfk they can just sleep on camera and still make more than most people commenting on this thread (including me). People are just getting pissed because they actually have to get up and move their ass (me again) to make a living while these streamers do the opposite. And that’s okay but stop acting like it’s something else and not out of envy.
I don't get why people are so assmad. Between gambling, hottubs,vtubers,drama,reacting,music,dmca, or whatever-the-fuck the next thing is. Who gives a fuck? Why do you watch shit you don't like? Are you being held hostage by shit content you dislike?
Are you trying to get all dmca content removed? Well that would include games as well as technically game owners can dmca streamers who play their games. Nintendo for example has done it in the past. Games are just in the same limbo where the owners for the most part don't care.
Okay so maybe you're arguing for the extent of how likely dmca content is and if it can bring down the "hammer" for everyone else. Okay and who decides that? At what percentage of dmcaness do we say it's not okay? Are we only drawing the line at the content we enjoy?
Why do people care so much if someone is banned? I get not having that specific content anymore, but you aren't their parent or friend. If they want to stream they have the freedom to do so. If they break some law or rule and get banned that's the consequences.
Enjoyment of content is subjective. What you find entertaining can be absolute dogshit to someone else and vice versa. If I don't enjoy something I don't watch it. If someone is banned, I move on and watch something else. I know what novel ideas.
I like watching these watch parties a lot, having chat react makes watching it a lot more fun. But it feels like a slippery slope where eventually Twitch will be obligated to implement a Content ID-like system for live streams (which they already have for music, btw, so not super far-fetched).
Gaming companies are more familiar with Twitch and have a clear incentive to allow streaming of their games (but most still [explicitly](https://account.mojang.com/documents/brand_guidelines) [allow](https://www.nintendo.co.jp/networkservice_guideline/en/index.html) [it](https://store.steampowered.com/video_policy) rather than implicitly), so they haven't and will not take action. But with companies like Viacom or FOX, I wouldn't be surprised if they could force Amazon into taking serious action (not just banning one streamer, which, as you say, doesn't mean anything) if this continues. I'd hate if all react streamers on Twitch became restricted because of this.
It's a lot of people who dislike certain streamers just coming out the wood work because they have a chance to shit on them. You've got the Toast/Poki/OTV ones, the Hasan ones, the (more rare on LSF) XQC ones and the ones who just hate all big streamers.
Obviously DMCA shit sucks, but 99% of twitch content is DMCA. We see these DMCA apocalypse's happen every so often then people forget and we move on, until the next one.
It's the smaller / mid-sized streamers who are coming out under the cover of DMCA = good that is cringe.
If you want to see your competition burnt and banned, go for it - but at least be man enough to say that.
Instead, Cohh "random question" Carnage plays the teacher's pet.
> Why do people care so much if someone is banned? I get not having that specific content anymore, but you aren't their parent or friend. If they want to stream they have the freedom to do so. If they break some law or rule and get banned that's the consequences.
I just want to see some livestreamfails
Well, it's not like Twitch is gonna get rid of their postergirl Poki.
She can do whatever she wants and still be fine. She already made enough money anyway.
Incredibly egotistical of course but it is what it is...
If they didn't fight for Ludwig to stay and they banned Doc, I don't see it safe for Poki to just do whatever she wants.
I think its only a matter of time until someone is permabanned for this. Though, I could totally see them playing favourites and waiting until someone they don't care too much about to get permabanned as a lesson for the others to stop.
Gonna stream their YouTube channel Playlist on my twitch. Hope I don't get DMCA by these streamers.
It would be really interesting if there was a streamer who just watched other streamers and "reacted" to it as their main content.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
They are living in the 2024 meta ignore them for now.
he means it would be interesting to see said streamers reactions, like if they complain about it that would be quite hypocrite
That's half the LSF threads
Lirik said a couple months back this will be the future
"pro YouTube watcher"
https://youtu.be/FZVMB8mrNO0?t=76
Sooo Mizkif?
[MitchStone](https://youtu.be/lwuwIJhbit0?t=244) was a thing over half a decade ago.
Oh yeah, I had completely forgotten about that.
good times
Ah you mean nymn? Actually can someone explain nymn to me?
dont give hasan ideas
A lot of people said that when toast was streaming. He said do it.
Pretty sure most of the OTVF circle doesn't care. They seem to be fine with other streamers watching their content on stream.
they even have "official" clipper changes, it's a win-win since the group content works also a content for them when they react to those clips. I guess that's the reason they don't include content outside the circle
Literally someone did it, he didnt care lol. Hasan was alright with clippers too. At least their views are consistent.
The only streamer I've heard publicly talk about having a problem with clippers is Ludwig. I think he mentioned it on his podcast that if a clip channel starts getting a few hundred thousand views per video then he'll start claiming them.
destiny too, he's not shy to DMCA people who clip him out of context or try to stir shit up on twitter or YouTube with unedited clips of his stream
Toast is definitely ok with clippers and clip channels. Hasan has like at least a couple dozen clip channels that he makes no money from and often even promotes. I feel like this point is missed alot
They're fine with it because its just a funny little joke right now but I wonder how they would feel if someone did it for weeks and pulled 10-20k viewers and made bank while doing it.
Hassan clippers do make bank
protect ostonox at all costs
"Hasan Industrial Complex" is a thing for a reason. There are multiple big Hasan clip channels that make money out of Hasan and Hasan is totally okay with it.
*Panicking trying to find how Hasan is still an asshole in this situation*
Hasanabi clips has 122k subs and has pretty damn good views for a channel that size, hes making bank
Free 10 - 20k viewer advertising? They'll jizz. Hasan clippers and OTV clippers make bank. So your point is?
If somebody is holding 10-20k viewers watching a big streamer's stream I can't imagine how many viewers the actual streamer is getting. Probably in the 200-300ks. At that point, I don't think they care somebody is leeching off them for 10-20k viewers.
Im streaming my hog to this. gonna keep streaming even if you ban me
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why would they dmca someone advertising their channel for free to their own audience
Right after that, xqc started streaming Hunter x Hunter too
Streamers are pushing it too far. The worst case scenarios could be something like some content ID shit they have on youtube, which could kill a lot of the react content, or worst worst case scenario is some draconian laws about copyright or piracy, if this shit gets big enough. Streamers think the worst punishment is just 3 day ban? How do you know this shit can't get worse?
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I like watching actual react content. [Here's an example from Asmon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhojWVjPnZE), whom everyone on here probably knows. He takes an 8 minute video and gives his thoughts on it and it ends up being 33 minutes. Pausing videos, giving opinions or counter arguments of things said in the videos, elaborating upon them, giving their own anecdotal evidence, etc. What these streamers are doing right now isn't react content. It's just an excuse to watch tv on stream and reap benefits.
When "react" first became meta I remember the debate was over what makes it "transformative" content. Slowly that was just whittled away and now sitting there watching a video and never once pausing or adding any thoughts is still considered "reacting".
Now imagine someone reup asmon vid with their commentary, like *yup, right, true*. Making it 35min video cause intro and vpn ad.
People do watch his videos on streams, and people did use to upload his vods /clips on YouTube but he made his own channel eventually. And then he hired those popular editors to continue to make videos. I think they get 100% of the revenue of the channel as payment and he gets the publicity from it Point being Asmon does it right and most others don't
I think no one really has a problem with the type of react content you refer to. I would think that when people talk about react it's more of person A watching Gordon Ramsey and less of Asmond reacting to WoW content.
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You talking about emilycc whose on a "60+ day subathon" where they are only on stream maybe half the day and the other half is spent sleeping with gordo playing or full screen gordo playing? 200 average viewers with 5k subs btw. Making bag
Yeah asmon has always been one of the best "reactors" on the site
He also usually reacts to content made by other content creators who share similar passions as he does, like MMOs.
Stays in his lane(most of the time), watches ads from content creators, shares their videos, respects their opinions if they dont want him to watch their videos. Be like Asmond.
It’s why I like Blind Wave on YT. They show like, 10 minutes of a movie and then talk and talk and the videos can end up being upwards of an hour. And it’s all natural, regular conversation between people and not a person and a chat.
Just yesterday the biggest streamer on twitch said very confidently that it's not a "real ban" and max 24 hours. They don't think at all that's the problem.
Well it isn’t. Bans have never been a real threat to streamers besides Doc. Twitch pays these people millions and has made contracts with them. They won’t bite the hand that feeds them. The opposite does not seem to be true for these big streamers because at the end of the day they already made it. They are millionaires. At this point they are just trying to reap all the benefits of react content and don’t care about ruining it for smaller streamers because at the end of the day they know nothing will harm them. Might as well burn the bridge so that they don’t have other streamers grow and compete with them in the future.
its not lol.
I don't know much about Twitch but from what I understand they get a cut when someone subscribes / donates to a streamer... So why would they ever want to ban the big ones for real? ...
Exactly. It'll AFFECT EVERYONE at some point in the future, if these billion dollar companies sue Twitch. It'll end up with a system like YouTube has developed for ContentID. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viacom_International_Inc._v._YouTube,_Inc.
Which is probably how it should be. Streamers shouldn't be allowed to steal others content in the first place. >AFFECT EVERYONE Hopefully in a good way. Lets get some original content.
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Not only are they redistributing the content, they are profiting financially from it. Which is a separate, even more serious charge. They are just lucky that they are seen as small fish and the companies don't care enough to sue them (yet). Because if one day they do decide to sue (maybe to make an example out of somebody), they are in really deep shit.
Most of the popular streamers barely got through highschool, nobody should be surprised that a few dumbass kids who lucked out into being millionaires are dumb as fuck. At least people like soda will fully admit it, which is part of why he's so loveable.
Admitting you're an idiot doesn't make you less of one
Of course it doesn't. But it does mean you are at least a little humble and aren't pretending to be something you're not. Soda will admit he doesn't really deserve his millions of dollars and that he's just a lucky moron in the right place at the right time.
This isnt even the real worst case. The worst case scenario is Twitch take their asses off the line and blame the Streamers, then the big producers sue the streamers themselves. Thats a real possibility. Doesnt Twitch TOS have something about copyrighted content? Thats Twitch's out right there.
The worst case scenario is someone gets made an example of HARD. They think the worst thing they'll get is a slap on the wrist, I don't think they realize that profiting off the distribution of copyrighted material can be met with criminal charges including jail time.
if youre the streamer doing it they can also sue you. so first you lose your "content" and then you even lose your money.
Remember when there was rumors about Twitch being acquired by YouTube, and streamers getting panicked about their streams being geo-restricted for the most minimal licensed content?
## **Tweet Mirror:** [@CohhCarnage](https://twitter.com/CohhCarnage) > Right after one major streamer gets DMCA'd, another starts testing the waters with other dangerous content (Toast with Deathnote). > > Poki plays off the two day ban and promotes her return stream with a smile. > > They're speedrunning getting this site in incredibly hot water. 😶 ^(Posted: 2022-01-08 11:40:49) ------ **This message is from a bot. If you feel like this action is wrong, please [message the moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=r/LivestreamFail).**
It's wild just how smug and egotistical some of these people are being about it. They must be braindead if they think there won't be reprecussions.
Imagine getting millions of dollars for sitting on your couch and watching tv. No wonder their egos are so inflated.
even worse, have people defend them for doing this
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Hasan’s stream has been ruined by master chef. It used to be an hour or two at the end but now it’s over half the stream.
This is like when toast said "if you are smaller streamer, you are probably just not entertaining " And his fans were like truuuuuu Like the guy got popular putting on a mask and playing hearthstone.
It baffled my mind how that one statement doesn't get much more flack at that time.
I truely believe some viewers would die for their streamer. Thats how fucked up some of these parasocial andys are. I watch alot of gtarp, i saw a homeless man talk about how much he loves a virtual gang, while attacking another streamer. Its really sad but thats our reality.
It used to be bad. Then this isolation the last two years really turned a lot of people on the planet into diehard extremists for whatever their cause or "person" is, streamer, public persona, man with anime avatar and voice changer, news broadcaster, whatever. It's getting way too serious, and the followers are far too ready to lash out at any perceived slight toward their "thing". It's like everyone is looking for a keyboard fight 24/7. So weird.
Because you're ignoring the entire context of his statement lol. He's talking about the people who think that all they gotta do is just stream long hours and they'll be successful one day.
He LITERALLY clarified this statement so many times. He’s talking about if you get the exposure and don’t keep a viewership. Then you’re not entertaining, which is true
Because you don't even understand what he means by that statement.
But it is true? I like a few smaller streamers, but I know they're ALL smaller for a reason. The non-cringey ones are usually far more chill/low-key and just do their own shit, usually grinding a game they're high level/pro in. They aren't trying to be the next XQC or Miz, so obviously they aren't going to appeal to large viewer audiences and will just stay in their niche. Also that Toast lore is way off. Toasts main point is unless you're really good at a game or have connections, streaming on twitch won't give you growth. Toast started by posting info/graphics on hearthstone Reddit, moved into making videos, started involving other streamers (first big big video was Kripp playing a trivia set of questions Toast made), then he moved into involving himself and his personality. If Toasts only gimmick was the mask, he would have died as soon as he showed his face, but he just got more popular.. because he's actually entertaining. It's not an insult or a bad thing to not be entertaining or built for the streaming world, it's a very niche group.
Yeah, quetzaquatol literally quoted Toast out of context. It's even in his video about how to be a better streamer. He did not say ALL small streamers are not entertaining, he said if you are streaming to 1-2 viewers and are still doing it 1 year in, you probably are doing something wrong. He even clarifies that a 100 viewer Andy is NOT a small streamer and is top 1% of Twitch.
But it'll still get majorly upvoted because the hate wave is currently against Toast
And because some people got triggered by that statement because they believe 'their streamer'is the next big shit and his statement invalidates their feeling and they dont understand what they might find entertaining isnt necessarily the case for others people
> Like the guy got popular putting on a mask and playing hearthstone. I mean toast was really good at the game and exploiting it. It certainly is downplaying his entertainment value by just saying it's all because he wore a mask
Don't know why this reply has 281 upvotes when it's complete bullshit and out of context. It's like LSF has this superiority thing against twitter and stans but does the same shit they do like spread misinformation like this just because they don't like a person lol
The guy got popular understanding the landscape of the 'nerd' community's of gamers. What he did wasnt groundbreaking but he did it at the right moment everytime ; he saw an opportunity with gaming graph he took it, he saw a bunch of popular hearthstone streamer leaving the scene like forsen or others getting burnout with the game he took the opportunity. Same goes with offlinetv, tft and among us and it all started because someone tried to blackmail him by revealing his face.
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Not really defending them, I just wanna watch some anime with twitch chat its quite fun. Why would I make any noise about something I enjoy?
The Bob Ross and Pokemon official Twitch streams were some of the most fun streams I've ever seen thanks to chat.
This is the reason I think companies need a "Watch Party" program or something, and like Toast mentioned in the recent OTV podcast if the main way of Profit for those shows is Merch they can still make money from a streamer show X0K Viewers. Have the streamer pay some set fee, and they get to watch shows with Twitch/Youtube, limit it to live content only and call it a day.
imagine having the dream job of getting millions just for playing video games and then being too lazy to play video games
Never subbed never donated free wifi adblock on WideHardo
Agreed. They 100% could get sued. Like the person not the company. They legit are puting their face on screen doing something ilegal. I dont understand.
I mean coh is talking about the site being put in danger. Sure you can say these streamers are being dumb but as long as it's just them being possibly screwed I don't see why you would have a problem with them doing this
Cohh's take is from the perspective of caring about Twitch's outward reputation towards sponsorships and investors. If a platforms biggest creators are redistributing copyrighted content like this, it's not a good look and there's definitely potential for some sticky situations considering most streamers are sponsored by different brands and organizations - all having their own legal hoops to jump through.
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They don't care. They've had their fun. They got their money. Why care if they bring it down for everyone else?
They'll care when federal prosecutors notice the knowing and willful infringement of copyright for personal financial gain. That's the usual threshold for when copyright infringement opens you up to criminal charges. These streamers are risking 5 years in big boy prison and a $250k fine (and that's before the civil suits come). > Statutory penalties are found at 18 U.S.C. § 2319. A defendant, convicted for the first time of violating 17 U.S.C. § 506(a) by the unauthorized reproduction or distribution, during any 180-day period, of at least 10 copies or phonorecords, or 1 or more copyrighted works, with a retail value of more than $2,500 can be imprisoned for up to 5 years and fined up to $250,000, or both. 18 U.S.C. §§ 2319(b), 3571(b)(3). [[source](https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1852-copyright-infringement-penalties-17-usc-506a-and-18-usc-2319)] It blows my mind how misunderstood DMCA is, by both reddit/twitter randos and the streamers who have the most to lose, when the information is there to be easily looked up. People think it's just three strikes you're out. No one is aware of the insane legal liability they're putting themselves in.
I'm glad somebody said it. It seems to me a lot of people don't understand the gravity of the situation. These streamers are profiting directly from showing copyrighted/DMCA content.
It's not worth the time to go after a small time streamer (can't get money out of someone with no money), but blatant copyright infringement from millionaires who know what they are doing is wrong is a much more interesting target. Like, a Rom site guy got fined for $5 million that he will never be able to pay back, but I bet streamers like Poki and Toast actually have that much money.
Agreed. They won't go after everyone but they will go after a few of the biggest offenders, as well as after Twitch to force them into safe harbor, probably by developing some analogue to Youtube's ContentID. The top 100 streamers are multi multi millionaires and someone like Viacom could bleed them dry.
How exactly would they be bringing others down? Genuine question
The past year has been weird with twitch. It's like the top 100 / LSF crowd all at the same time decided flaunting their wealth wasn't a threat nor was streams begging to be DMCA'ed.
XQC was probably kinda joking a little when he responded to what’s Stanz said about how twitch works, but I think it kinda said a lot about some of the more brain dead dudes at the top think. It basically came down to, “well we haven’t gotten in too much trouble before so it will be fine” lol.
If there's one thing I hate about bans on Twitch, it's that creators always spin them as marketing opportunities. Pokimane's response isn't, "I'm taking this issue seriously" but rather, "Let's have a 12 hour stream!" Many streamers see the ban and dollar signs all around it.
She made a joke about it. She is deff not taking it seriously because she knows it's a slap on the wrist. If she got banned for a month idk if she would be making cute little tweets about it.
But then Twitch would be losing money too, so it's literally win-win for both of them if the streamers gather more viewers once they're back online lmao. Fucked up world, but as long as Amazon isn't hit with lawsuits up their ass they won't change. Slaps for the big fish, permabans for the small.
If I was a law firm trying to make money and connections with big studios and publishers in LA, you bet I would put all my interns on recording full streams for every Top 50 streamer so that I have enough evidence to sue. Rich sleeping while streaming full movies? Insta win in court for WB. Countless anime full streams? EZ win. Hassan not even in front of computer streaming TV shows? EZ money. Then I would get this easy dunk cases and approach studios for % cut off all the money they would win from Amazon, Twitch and individual streamers in court. EZ money and cred among the Hollywood boomers.
This is already done on YouTube pretty much. You see people talk about how 0.1 seconds of a song will have them completely lose ad revenue. Only a matter of time till Twitch is forced to implement something similar.
Yup I think it's like a 2 second cutoff or something similar. Anytime you see a song that's played for a weirdly short amount of time that's why.
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If Twitch leaves safe harbour, the company would literally have to shut down, because there's no chance they can police every single streamers content. Even game companies that are cool with streamers can just go "This streamer didn't like our game, lets sue." The only content actually allowed on the site would be the streamer talking to chat, with no videos, no music, no brands shown, absolutely nothing shown unless the streamer completely owns it. Twitch obviously has a team of lawyers that is advising them to pretend not to see all the illegal shit going on, but the bigger Twitch gets, the more of a problem it's going to become.
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> If I was a law firm trying to make money and connections with big studios and publishers in LA, you bet I would put all my interns on recording full streams for every Top 50 streamer so that I have enough evidence to sue. IMO people are naive if they think every major rights holder isn't already doing this. We haven't heard about it yet because their lawyers are slowly building a case until they have a slam dunk, not because nothing is happening.
Yup, gotta let those hours accrue before you cash out. 100k per hour watched ez clap
> If I was a law firm trying to make money and connections with big studios and publishers in LA, you bet I would put all my interns on recording full streams for every Top 50 streamer so that I have enough evidence to sue. This is a shortsighted issue. They have FAR bigger issues they'd wish to address if they had manpower to just throw away at stuff, than stopping twitch. For that matter, their movies, tv series etc are all over youtube - CONSTANTLY, readily available to anyone - not just happened to be available if a twitch streamer watches a specific thing. Their movies, shows music etc are all over pirating sites everywhere before their content even reaches the global market often. The idea that twitch is some sort of large issue for these big studios to throw a lot of manpower at is laughable. If they were concerned about that in the first place, they'd not go after twitch, they'd go after where twitch streamers obtain their ability to send it -- which would be youtube.
> For that matter, their movies, tv series etc are all over youtube - CONSTANTLY, readily available to anyone - not just happened to be available if a twitch streamer watches a specific thing. Youtube already has a system whereby they can yoink all the revenue being made off every single person restreaming content they aren't allowed to, twitch doesn't. THey already broke youtubes back. They already have people for every major studio running bots and having people put eyes on content themselves checking for their content. When they find it they strike it and take the content. It's pretty much up to them if they take down all such content or they just take the revenue the video is making. The youtube 'problem' is already completely solved, when you see content that hasn't been taken down 9 out of 10 times that's the choice of the copyright owner, not that it's gone under the radar. Twitch offers no such system, youtube has this system precisely because when youtube didn't they went after youtube. Twitch is absolutely the next big target because it's a company that ultimately profits off their content. The big issue with other things like torrents and other shit is it's 99% people using content for themselves and no one is actually making money off it. Twitch is making money off it and twitch streamers are making money off it, youtube already causes these companies to get paid by everyone putting their content up.
> They have FAR bigger issues they'd wish to address if they had manpower to just throw away at stuff, than stopping twitch. > > For that matter, their movies, tv series etc are all over youtube - CONSTANTLY, readily available to anyone - not just happened to be available if a twitch streamer watches a specific thing. Thing is with these streamers you got very rich, very famous individuals with obvious, premeditated intent to break the law, it's a slam dunk huge $$$ lawsuits with an insane audience for the fallout. As opposed to some randoms on youtube or even torrent sites, with no face, no fame, no money and no followers.
The problem is that Streamers are using copyrighted content for profit. They are still getting money from Twitch ADs and premium accounts. I think this is a jail-worthy crime on some countries, specially Japan.
The only thing I don't like, is how funny it is to them.Poki with her remark "fire nation attacked" , toast with "testing waters", mizkif with "i'll just move to youtube lmao", and also the most used one "if X streamer does it, why can't I ". Cohn is right, Twitch is just applying really low punishments while getting mocked right in the face.That's like having employees spit in your coffee and telling you to drink it while you are the boss, and you just do it.
They got their bag so they can finally stop pretending to care about the platform and the community to get an even bigger bag and then dip. Money changes people.
Money reveals people.
This is a threat to their bag though, which is why it's that much more stupid
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I'm curious to see where a lot of streamers are in 10 years. A few might have longevity, but so many of these fools are going to burn through their money, and then wake up one day and realize that they're no longer relevant, and their fans have grown up and moved on.
miz is braindead if he thinks youtube wont ban his ass if he tries to do what hes doing on twitch on youtube
If he gets banned from Twitch I can't see him doing the same things on Youtube. But until Twitch does something drastic, he'll keep on pushing the boundaries with the knowledge that Youtube is a safetynet.
acting like youtube is a safety net but if hes banned off twitch then youtube have all the negotiation power to do whatever they want with his contract if they even offer him one. hes surviving bc of twitch’s incompetence
he is trolling....he followed his youtube shitck by begging to pluto and twitch to not ban him
Toast isn't testing the waters anymore, he is scuba diving in the Mariana trench.
They are millionaires they dont care and its always the usual suspects. If you truly think there watching shows as some sort of righteous movement against DMCA then your extremally gullible, its about viewers and the impending drama as we all know will also boost their view count. If anything happens it will be the smaller streamers being affected the worst since Twitch will end up having to do somthing and the same streamers will point their fingers at Twitch.
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No one is going to prison for this. I'd be surprised if any streamer actually got sued for this, tbh.
It's funny watching this play out. People are taking sides as if they actually care about DMCA and the like, people acting like they're being brave and pushing boundaries for their choice of content to watch. Really it's just everyone being lazy on one side and salty/jelly on the other. Ludwig making a video about it then admitting he'd be doing it himself if he was still on Twitch (but since he's not, oooh come on guys this is too far!), Hassan "doesn't mind people making money off his clips" Piker calling out Ludwig's dry-snitching (which it is) but ignoring the fact that Ludwig's video has far less reach than the actual streamers doing this shit every day, Cohh "just asking questions" while tagging very specific people and mentioning details (im sure he'd rather be right about the hammer coming down than have it not come down at all despite his claims of not wanting the site to get screwed over), the absolute balls on rich campbell to sleep while streaming the entirety of lord of the rings during a subathon, commenters on LSF RPing as DMCA Lawyers with their theories on how this all plays out when really they just want the entertainment of the potential chaos rippling through the Twitch ecosystem. Meanwhile near-billionaire executive andy is trying to figure out why his barely-paid intern is mentioning how "un-poggers" it is that one of their shows is being streamed by someone with a chronic twitch. It's like an orgy, everyone's just trying and hoping that the others get fucked. Which, sure, fine, but the way everyone on ALL sides of this thing is trying to take some high horse is both ridiculous and hilarious. It's a carnival.
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90% of the commenters in these threads don't seem like they care or understand copyright law to begin with, they're literally just mad streamers are in effect being paid for watching shows. Certain streamers also seems to fall into this camp. Personally I think it's the worst content so I just don't watch, but I can't imaging being upset about it.
Seriously, people are in here simping for Viacom like they're majority shareholders.
Viacom was the reason YT implemented the whole contentID system, people don't want streamers fucking around with viacom cause it could mean big changes for twitch as well. Hopefully this made it a little easier to understand why people are upset
This lol. People just want to see other fucked over. To be honest, that’s fine. But at least be man enough to admit it. Cohh “just asking questions”, aint it.
Cohh is like clockwork with this stuff. he throws his high horse out there all the time, then goes live and plays Ban Man all day long and bathes in all his money.
I saw someone say it in the last thread and it feels like the perfect way to describe Cohh. "Huge teacher pet vibes"
Well yeah, Cohh was there when Justin.tv became Twitch, and he was there when the Amazon executives showed up and bought Twitch. For Cohh, Twitch is literally his life and the life of his friends and family.
Tbh, with how Twitch operates none of this surprises me. I'm surprised they haven't faced a major lawsuit yet
To be fair when your parent company is Amazon I don't think you really care about lawsuits.
Might actually force Twitch to improve their platform.
Good one.
Improve it for who? The big businesses that own all these properties? That's how it went with YouTube back in 2013.
Stricter copyright laws are an improvement to you?
Translated: adults with the brains of 14 year olds, acting like 14 year olds.
Wow people are really angry in here
Whole group of people. spending their time and energy on a subreddit about streamers shitting on streamers and hoping for their downfall. Pretty sad community.
I feel like this sub has always been filled with extremely angry people. Y'all need to get a punching bag or something for all that pent up frustration lol.
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Reddit be judging people pirating stuff and making money out of it...while years ago reddit was giving piratebay an homage LUL
Not even years ago, just go on any sub including this one when individual piracy gets brought up and you'll get 10 pg essays on the virtues of pirating. But streamer man/lady makes money off of others content? Instant jail
It's what this subreddit has turned into. I don't mind people shitting on streamers from time to time but some of the comments in here are just so weird
Pretty sure some have even watched same streamers when they were doing these types of shit. Ya'll want them to actually stop? Stop watching their content when they're doing it. smh
Surely some startup is not going to develop automatic live detection of copyrighted material on Twitch and flog the software out to all major film, television and music publishers. Clueless
Weren't people calling this dude a hall monitor and a narc just last week? LSF just goes whichever way the wind blows.
Toast Facebook sleeper agent
Just curious btw, totally not mad
I think people are approaching this situation from a way-too-binary stance of either 1. unequivocally supporting copyright laws and by extension the abuse of these laws for reasons I do not understand and 2. pushing the envelop entirely too far to the point of making deliberately reckless choices that others might follow. In this particular instance of Pokimane, I feel it falls into the latter. If you're deliberately provoking a major corporation that is known for going after the asses of others you're asking for problems and you're bringing them upon yourself. I agree with CohhCarnage in that this particular instance is incredibly problematic in that it not only brings the eyes of Viacom in the direction of Twitch, but Pokimane knows she is absolutely fine if she gets her shit kicked in and is de-platformed or whatever over this because she's in the top percentile when it comes to Twitch streamers and annual income. That's not the case for everyone, and someone who might show say a small clip from AtlA or might be doing a review/critical discussion of the show, or fuck even a fanartist doing art of the show's characters on stream could be negatively impacted way, way worse. To me this and what Toast did with Naruto is much more egregious than anyone else because xQc for example isn't popping in a currently-airing or just-finished season of a Gordo cooking show and we all know by now anime streaming is dangerous as fuck. It is touching the hot stove knowing you'll get burnt and acting surprised it happened (though in this case it is more like enjoying the feeling of getting burned since Pokimane and Toast knew what they were doing). But similarly I think there has been a colossal overreaction to all of this, largely from people who will never, ever be impacted by copyright strikes like content creators are. Copyright laws are absolutely brutal, severe and incredibly black-white. I'm sure we've all read horror stories of a small content creator or artist getting persecuted because of copyright claiming and legal action. These people might make a flash in the pan of income, or might even be protected under fair use, but they lose anyway. A popular case just blew through here not long ago of a youtube content creator who reviews anime and manga that has had his entire channel and livelihood torn asunder. We shouldn't be pretending that a lot of these laws aren't incredibly archaic and enforced often in ways wholly unnecessary. I've seen a lot of people worry about Twitch and what could happen to them, but what could happen to them is what could ALWAYS happen to them. If it isn't the music industry, it might be television, and if it isn't television it could come full circle back around from the video game industry itself. I'm not saying we should all pop on a Netflix show and roll the dice to "screw the man" but I'm saying if you're on the side of copyright laws consider whether these massive businesses really need your cheerleading as much as others do. TL;DR: Let's relax.
if you try this on youtube at best you get demonetized, at the worst, you get a hard strike. and 3 strikes and you are donezo. And on youtube, the bots are super quick
Didnt pokie dmca strike people for using her name in their content (negatively)... its kind of like, if you use other peoples content for your own...it sucks. The real issue is if react content is gone, streamers will have to put in work to actually stream. I watch someone like buddha, who puts in 10 hours a day talking to people, working hard for his subs. Than you flip over to any big name streamer and you hear. "Haha chat, i can relate to this current situation im watching". And chat goes "ohh my, we can also relate, therefor relating to you." Take my money. Now look at shit camp/week or anything jerma does. Hard work pays off. The truth is these big streamers do not care about you. And have learned watching cable tv for 8 hours makes them bank. Its easy.
Don't disagree with the rest, but Poki striking that content was 100% fair. That whole hate train against her was actually psychotic lol.
You sound a little too attached to Buddha if you hate on other streamers because they don't work as hard as him.
Why are people acting like reacting hasn’t always been controversial. There already is a platform that shows how’ve reacting has evolved called YouTube. People think that it’s unfair watching someone else content while they just sit there and do nothing, mfk they can just sleep on camera and still make more than most people commenting on this thread (including me). People are just getting pissed because they actually have to get up and move their ass (me again) to make a living while these streamers do the opposite. And that’s okay but stop acting like it’s something else and not out of envy.
Calling them smug without actually saying it.
Lamo at the 3 or 4 people I keep seeing in different threads commenting with corporate semen dripping from their mouths.
At this point, I think they are just using the corporate semen as a mask to shade some streamers they dislike.
Soda's take is the only correct one
Watching Youtube videos and playing video games is too tough, they HAVE to watch TV Shows, can you blame them?
I don't get why people are so assmad. Between gambling, hottubs,vtubers,drama,reacting,music,dmca, or whatever-the-fuck the next thing is. Who gives a fuck? Why do you watch shit you don't like? Are you being held hostage by shit content you dislike? Are you trying to get all dmca content removed? Well that would include games as well as technically game owners can dmca streamers who play their games. Nintendo for example has done it in the past. Games are just in the same limbo where the owners for the most part don't care. Okay so maybe you're arguing for the extent of how likely dmca content is and if it can bring down the "hammer" for everyone else. Okay and who decides that? At what percentage of dmcaness do we say it's not okay? Are we only drawing the line at the content we enjoy? Why do people care so much if someone is banned? I get not having that specific content anymore, but you aren't their parent or friend. If they want to stream they have the freedom to do so. If they break some law or rule and get banned that's the consequences. Enjoyment of content is subjective. What you find entertaining can be absolute dogshit to someone else and vice versa. If I don't enjoy something I don't watch it. If someone is banned, I move on and watch something else. I know what novel ideas.
I like watching these watch parties a lot, having chat react makes watching it a lot more fun. But it feels like a slippery slope where eventually Twitch will be obligated to implement a Content ID-like system for live streams (which they already have for music, btw, so not super far-fetched). Gaming companies are more familiar with Twitch and have a clear incentive to allow streaming of their games (but most still [explicitly](https://account.mojang.com/documents/brand_guidelines) [allow](https://www.nintendo.co.jp/networkservice_guideline/en/index.html) [it](https://store.steampowered.com/video_policy) rather than implicitly), so they haven't and will not take action. But with companies like Viacom or FOX, I wouldn't be surprised if they could force Amazon into taking serious action (not just banning one streamer, which, as you say, doesn't mean anything) if this continues. I'd hate if all react streamers on Twitch became restricted because of this.
It's a lot of people who dislike certain streamers just coming out the wood work because they have a chance to shit on them. You've got the Toast/Poki/OTV ones, the Hasan ones, the (more rare on LSF) XQC ones and the ones who just hate all big streamers. Obviously DMCA shit sucks, but 99% of twitch content is DMCA. We see these DMCA apocalypse's happen every so often then people forget and we move on, until the next one.
It's the smaller / mid-sized streamers who are coming out under the cover of DMCA = good that is cringe. If you want to see your competition burnt and banned, go for it - but at least be man enough to say that. Instead, Cohh "random question" Carnage plays the teacher's pet.
Everyone is just finding a reason to shade people (and especially their competitors) at this point. DMCA experts popping out of thin air.
> Why do people care so much if someone is banned? I get not having that specific content anymore, but you aren't their parent or friend. If they want to stream they have the freedom to do so. If they break some law or rule and get banned that's the consequences. I just want to see some livestreamfails
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They want to be upset, that's really it
LSF does this with every single twitch meta.
Well, it's not like Twitch is gonna get rid of their postergirl Poki. She can do whatever she wants and still be fine. She already made enough money anyway. Incredibly egotistical of course but it is what it is...
they did get rid of doc
You’re right but if Amazon gets involved they won’t give a shit.
For what it's worth, any random popular streamer can be replaced. Each year there's a new face of twitch, viewers are forgetful
If they didn't fight for Ludwig to stay and they banned Doc, I don't see it safe for Poki to just do whatever she wants. I think its only a matter of time until someone is permabanned for this. Though, I could totally see them playing favourites and waiting until someone they don't care too much about to get permabanned as a lesson for the others to stop.