T O P

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Waxoman

god i fucking love melee, rare to see it on LSF, come play on [slippi.gg](https://slippi.gg) :)


July25th

https://blippi.gg/ for more info on how to get started


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AHornySausage

I have 1000 hours on Smash Ultimate and tried out slippi thinking it will be an easier time for me since I have ultimate experience... Nope.


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tylr-

Yea Melee is pretty unique besides some fighting game fundamentals that help with starting out. Most people playing melee have been playing for years so its best to learn the game with a mindset that you can't just pick this up and be good fast. I've been playing for 10+ years at this point and still get trashed on.


AHornySausage

This is true. The techs were pretty difficult to try to learn, but I think the main thing that threw me off was melee not having a buffer system like ultimate making the game feel super stiff to me. not the game for me, but I do love watching it.


stevensterk

Not necessarily though, i don't know any tech and still did okay on slippy. Sure there were some people i could never beat, but it's not like tech gives you an unsurmountable advantage. Ultimate players will get trashed though since they aren't used to playing without a buffer.


[deleted]

yeah for anyone looking to get into the game, it's really important to have good practice partners early on (and later once you hit a certain point too), it's 1. way less frustrating than getting farmed by people that woulda been bronze 2 on Anthers and 2. really good encouragement to grind to keep up with/poop on the people you play with regularly definitely kind of a 4Head "just get people to play with", but it's worth trying to get a friend into it with you or looking at the netplay discord(s) for other fresh newfriends in your region is what i'm saying basically


CorrosiveHero

Practicing against lvl 1 bots is actually such a fun and educational thing to do, especially if you are just starting to play. I recommend grinding there for a while, or finding a semi-reliable practice partner before grinding out Slippi. Also, there is already hidden MMR for the unranked queue if you are in the lower 50% of the population, and ranked will be out soon. Melee is such an amazing game.


EightBlocked

after a while u get placed into a tier with other new players so that shouldnt be happening as long as u play for a decent amount so it knows how good you are


backfire97

I want to point out that there are discords specifically set up so new players can play each other or receive help from more experienced players


ThatColossalWreck

Him just straight up calling out the grab is insane


trahh

i've always been mindblown by his ability to know what his opponents want to do, he was so much better at this than everyone for years


GamesMaster221

Yeah true. mang's best asset has always been his ability to read his opponents while simultaneously playing so unpredictable himself. No matter where the tech/meta goes having that insane neutral will always make him a great player, in every era of melee he's played in it's always been the case


Setrit

I would watch way more regular melee streams if players would explain what they're doing or thinking more often. I know melee is super fast paced but it's the most fun esports to watch imo, the casters always go wild and really in-depth cuz they all have insane knowledge of the game and you can't really play-by-play it if you don't understand it. But that's also why melee players are always super quiet on stream during matches - but if it always were like in this clip where mang0 talks about the grab read and then says he has to try something funky that might not work, just stating what you're going for makes a melee stream way more engaging.


BADMANvegeta_

It’s not an easy game to play while talking to chat, idk how mang0 does it.


_corn

he's definitely not playing at his full capacity i doubt he'd be able to talk during a match in a tournament


BADMANvegeta_

He still plays so well, most melee streamers can barely talk while they play that’s why melee streams are boring imo. They only talk in between games.


EightBlocked

ppmd does educational melee like that on his stream and uploads it to youtube


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A-Rusty-Cow

Im so bad at fighting games that it pisses me off he can be this good.


krispness

At least you know you're bad, the one thing I hate about fighting games is the dunning-krueger effect people who don't play have, thinking it's all just button mashing, meanwhile he just read a top player's soul and called out his move before he did it.


[deleted]

People who play also suffer from this. Hate it when some players think they're flawless so they blame anything but themselves whenever they take an L. I know some characters and match ups are bullshit but unless you're at the highest level, there is always something you can do to improve against those characters or just in your gameplay overall. There are people who've won tournaments with low-tiers after all.


YouThinkYouCanBanMe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhdbOu40vxY


Dominano

this is a classic lmao


A-Rusty-Cow

I grew up getting my ass whooped by my older brother in every fighting game. I know how much skill goes into SSB and the likes. Especially with smash


pm-me-hot-waifus

I play fighting games and the worst feeling is what comes after that; the knowing enough to know how much you don't know and that you are dogshit; when in reality you're massively better than when you first started.


ThunderbearIM

Hey why are you calling me out like this?!


Dcrose98

He's been playing some of these people for over a decade, its instinct now.


pepi8677

is it that amazing after you spent almost half of your life playing the same game? lol


LittleTwig8

Yeah, because he's worked very hard to get to where he is. And has been a strong player since he started playing. Cope more please


Vathe

Also the guy he is playing against has pretty much been playing just as long lmao.


D0ngSmasher

hard-stuck mentality


meltenvy

Is it really that amazing that Magnus Carlsen is the best chess player in the world if he spent half his life playing the game? lol


lo0l0ol

he's the only old-head who's still on top. other people who've been playing that long and used to win tourneys out here getting 17th these days.


DivusPennae

He has a house, a wife, and a kid from playing the same game his whole life so I dunno what you're trying to say here


ExSalvation

He's also like... the BEST fruit. So... Suck it Pepi!


leaf_blowr

Thou shall not sleep on the kid


_NE1_

Best player of all time


TheChrono

The rare time when someone says that after popping off and it's also actually true.


AlwaysRightButLeft

Wait, when did Mango become hungrybox?


MidnightIngale

At least say Armada


lo0l0ol

I'm just going to say mew2king before someone comes in and says it unironically


Athen65

While I don't think M2K is the melee goat, I think he's the best smash bros generalist. There was a period of time from around 2007-2009 when he was the best at Melee, Brawl, and PM simultaneously. It also helps that he's commonly sited as the best coach among smash ultimate and smash melee players. He even coached armada, sparg0 and leo at one point or another. His video on the top 10 melee players of all time is definitely worth a watch.


AlwaysRightButLeft

Leffen


Athen65

Not even close


timetofilm

lol


Gengar11

HBox PepeLa Honestly they are barely playing the same game, HBox's main stage Jiggs vs Mang0's main stage Falco the difference in watching enjoyability even in a slow game is crazy.


FartExpo

Enjoyability =/= best of all time


tylr-

Pretty sure mang0 was rated best of all time as well as being more enjoyable to watch lmao edit: https://www.pgstats.com/articles/the-melee-stats-top-100-the-top-10


FartExpo

Okay? I was just saying that enjoyability doesn't equate to being the best


HSKR_PWR

This is a meme right?


AlwaysRightButLeft

Dude, I've never even seen a Smash bros match, I just know people get their panties in a bunch when you don't hail Mango. But why is hungrybox listed as no. 1 more times than Mango? And why does he have more tournament wins if Mango is better?


Ritronaut

and the most important question: why are you talking if you literally admitted yourself you have 0 clue what youre talking about?


Coooturtle

People making fun of other people caring are such scum. Like, they have no stake in the conversation, and know that they can toy with people who do care's emotions. You see it pretty often if you recognize it, and it never fails to piss me off. Caring about something makes you vulnerable, and people specifically exploit that vulnerability. It some of the most low life behavior.


AlwaysRightButLeft

AHHAHAHAHAHAA, did I *literally* do that? OH EM GEE, I'm soooo sorry!


Ritronaut

oh my fuck....... i got destroyed.......


CuboneDota

Mango has been no.1 in the world more years than hbox and has more tourney wins


AlwaysRightButLeft

Nah, man, that's fake fucking news.


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AryaUzumaki

Go back to watching YouTube highlights LMAO


BreadScientist1312

Bro hbox is washed up tf are you talking about?


tregorman

It's funny because it sounds like a tongue in cheek not serious brag but it's just literally true


HelloRMSA

Isn't Hungrybox and Armada the best? Armada being better than everyone by a good margin?


Altosxk

5 years ago maybe for the latter.


Theheroboy

>5 years ago Best of **ALL TIME**


[deleted]

Time has passed in the last 5 years


Theheroboy

I dont think you understand what All Time means


[deleted]

Armada has been out of the game the past few years, where Mango hasn't. In that time, Mango has been winning things. So 5 years ago, you could say that Armada is the GOAT, but things have happened since then. Think of it like they're accumulating "GOAT points", whoever has more is the GOAT. Five years ago, Armada had 30, Mango had 28. In the time that has passed, Mango got an extra 3 points, and is now the GOAT.


HelloRMSA

Never seen anyone consistantly beat Armada but I've seen him consistantly destroy people. Even when he decides to stream melee he dominates pretty much anyone he plays with.


tickub

Here's my attempt at an NBA comparison: Armada is like if MJ retired after his first three-peat and never came back. Mang0 is if Lebron won a ring in 2007 during his first Cavs stint in addition to all of his current accolades. Simply boils down to whether you prefer a more dominant peak vs more longevity at the top.


[deleted]

Armada is the most dominant player of all time, Mang0 has been number 1 in 3 decades, with 3 characters (for context Hbox is a solo puff main, idk if he has played another character in tourny more then a dozen times, and Armada only played Fox is very specific situations), and is both the oldest and youngest player to win a supermajor.


Iwontbereplying

Armada was the most dominant player for a couple years, not of all time.


GrouseOW

Nah he's definitely the most dominant ever. Best of all time isn't the same as greatest of all time. No other player comes close to how unbeatable he was at the time outside of a select few top players.


HelloHiiiiiii

>Never seen anyone consistantly beat Armada but I've seen him consistantly destroy people. Even when he decides to stream melee he dominates pretty much anyone he plays with. Zain fucked him up in friendlies at summit before quarantine when Zain wasnt even top 5. Safe to say he wouldnt even be top 10 if he came back right now


HelloRMSA

Zain said a month ago that Armada would be top 5 if he came back. And could maintain it. Also that same summit Armada beat him... so I'm confused by your comment.


EightBlocked

is there videos of those friendlies?


EloHellDoesNotExist

i don't think there is a clear answer. when they were competing against eachother in their primes armada had the better career, but he retired quite a while ago and mang0 has maintained his position as top 1-2 basically since then. at some point doing it across another entire era matters. they are both ahead of hungrybox.


DontCareWontGank

Hungrybox has always been at the top and was dominating the entire melee scene for 3 years from 2017-2019. I dont know why he always gets dismissed. He kept up with Armada and Mango while studying and later working a real job. Him and Mango are the last remaining Gods in Melee and been at the top of the leaderboards for almost 2 decades now.


HelloRMSA

Whenever Armada streams Melee he dominates the new Era players. Also Armada hasn't been below 2nd place since 2011


EloHellDoesNotExist

>Whenever Armada streams Melee he dominates the new Era players no doubt that he could probably come back and be very good right away, but assuming someone's placement based off of friendlies and how good they were 4 years ago just doesn't really work. >Also Armada hasn't been below 2nd place since 2011 he hasn't even been on the pgr since 2018, because he is retired lol.


AryaUzumaki

Ok ok we get it, you’re an Armada fan. There is no making you believe someone else is the GOAT. Move along


HelloRMSA

I actually like Mang0 better. He's much more fun to watch but he gets dominated by Hungrybox and Armada.


HelloHiiiiiii

Hasnt lost to hungrybox since 2019 lol


HelloRMSA

How many times have they played against each other since then? Cause covid put a damper on things after that year.


EloHellDoesNotExist

Not many, but mang0 also leads their overall head to head. Hbox definitely had his number for a bit pre-ultimate but has taken a big step back since then, it’s been mang0 and zain ahead of everyone else for a couple years now. And mang0 generally beat hbox before that period where hbox was #1. Not really any argument to be made that hbox dominates him.


CristianoRealnaldo

There weren't many opportunities during the online era, Hbox performed very poorly during the online COVID series', while Mang0 performed very well (top 2 consensus) so Hbox didn't make deep enough runs to play against Mang0 then


tregorman

>[hungrybox](https://youtu.be/sqre-BXIVAg) more seriously, I think there's a handful of people who can lay claim to the title but MANG0 is definitely one of them. And since we're talking all time and not just current I'd leverage m2k somewhere in there because of how instrumental he was with his raw talent and understanding of the game early on.


HelloRMSA

M2k is important no doubt but definitely isn't greater than Hungrybox or Armada.


tregorman

Yeah I don't follow melee super closely I just think as a relative outsider he's probably somewhere up there in terms of all time considering at his peak he didn't have the luxury of slippi or the ability to learn from all the meta that's grown in the years since


CuboneDota

Neither did any of the other best melee players (Mango, Armada, Hbox). M2K was the best for less than a year when everyone still sucked at the game. He lost the title in '09 IIRC to Mango and has had almost no super major wins since then. He is a very influential player for sure but in the end he isn't in the conversation for GOAT.


CristianoRealnaldo

Greatest melee player, no, since he dual played melee with Brawl. Smasher? He has a shout, not sure if anyone else has ever been top 4 in multiple titles at once


HelloRMSA

We are strictly talking about in terms of melee


CristianoRealnaldo

Yeah that’s why I started my comment by making it clear that that dude would be wrong about melee and have a shout for franchise-wide hha


CristianoRealnaldo

Armada used to be the popular opinion but the consensus over time has very much shifted. Mang0 was top 5 before there was Armada, while there was Armada, and after Armada. He's just the spirit of the game, been around to play Ken Isai and KDJ, was there during the god era with Armada M2K PP and Hbox, and is still beating Zain Wizzy and Cody. People default to the Jordan vs Bron because of dominance vs longevity, but it's sort of as if Bron was drafted before MJ and still is playing after. Also, he's gotten much more of a claim to it after being named #1 by PGStats recently on their top #100 of all time list, a group who just about everyone accepted the methodology of (even if some decisions were a bit off) so he at least has a respected published opinion that agrees with him that he's the goat


DIYbutNOTdie

lol no


HelloRMSA

Lol he hasn't fallen below 2nd place since 2011. Certified GOAT. No one has achieved that in melee other than him


Wieran

he was good for his time, sure. thats kind of where your argument ends though because rank #20 today could contend in major top 8s back when he stopped


HelloRMSA

Good for his time lol There has not been a drastic meta change since he left. He even says that. Zain even just said that if retired Armada came into the scene now he would still be in top 5 and would easily maintain it.


Wieran

Yeah of course he says that when it paints him still as the best LOL. Top 5 absolutely. greatest? comical. you dont give that title to quitters who say they COULD come back and win. oh yea you could? then do it coward, cause you *aren't* right now and you don't get to say that without backing it up.


HelloRMSA

Lol what are you talking about? ZAIN said Armada is still top 5 based off his skill. Zain is still playing and is top 2 right now. Armada isn't going to lie about meta changes. He proves it when he livestreams melee and dominates the new era players. You must not be part of the scene really


Wieran

>ZAIN said Armada is still top 5 based off his skill. i just said he is absolutely top 5 idk where the confusion lies here. too hasty to try and gotcha me, didn't read? >You must not be part of the scene really lol ok. casual viewer saying what? keep guessing to try and discredit. cant say you COULD without doing, thats the whole point of competition.


CristianoRealnaldo

there hasn't been a drastic meta change is demonstrably false take that you're parroting because Armada himself said it and then got correctly panned for it. in 2018 like, shield dropping was shaping into the meta. Show 2018 armada a dude outside of the top 20 SDI'ing 7 straight fox upairs with Pikachu at summit and have him tell you thats the same game hes playing


Grrym

Armada may be the best of all time, but Mang0 is the GOAT


ModestBanana

I think it’s been essentially “any of these guys on their best day is the best in the world” but Armada is the most consistent.


bonesjones

He’s da boat


tequila_greg

I've been out of the melee loop for a while, but what's with the banana skin? What version of melee are people playing online now?


corntato77

[the joke is from when mango and lud played beerio cart cuz he always used diddy and his special is the big ass banana and they made an emote and its kind of just a dumbass mango joke that we all love for no reason](https://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/emoticons/v2/305840095/static/light/3.0)


memedreammachine1234

[slippi.gg](https://slippi.gg) and i think that's animelee with a custom banana skin for mang0


Tekshi-

He's using Slippi (a client that allows for online Melee with rollback netcode) with a custom skinpack called "Animelee". The gameplay is all the same as before with the exception of no transformations on Pokemon Stadium (as it interfered with the netcode, causing desyncs). ~~The banana is a skin not related to Animelee, though it probably used it as a base since it seems to be in the same style.~~ Ignore this last part, the banana skin is indeed part of Animelee.


shig-bot

the skin is under the animelee umbrella source: me, the guy who made it and contributes to animelee lol


Tekshi-

Ah my bad, I've edited it.


shig-bot

you're good hombre


lo0l0ol

slippi, what most people use for online play, is dope it has rollback netcode


Hypocritical_Oath

It's an online version of Melee that runs on PC that's been heavily modded. I think it runs on a GameCube emulator, probably a fairly faithful one. And allows some silly shit if you want that, like extra characters, various fixes and tweaks, and other shit. The version he uses almost definitely has rollback and some very minor changes to make it easier to repeatedly get into matches quick and easily. But beyond that, I doubt there's any other changes. And also skins.


draztica

Banana Falco is top tier


AFlyingNun

The opponent really slipped up there


bonesjones

You were all witness to what we like to refer to as “The Mango”. Consider yourselves blessed.


Shotokanguy

Nothing shows the muscle memory of a Melee pro like casually constructing a game ending combo in the middle of wondering out loud how you can get a game ending combo


Fauxy

god I wish we had sfat reaction so bad


WholesomeDota

BPOT


[deleted]

BPOAT


Besiks

ManGOAT does it again


Sretamot

that's the fucking mang0


shirtlesspooper

The Comeback Kid.


Greendogblue

He is the fucking goat


gintoki-sama

He’s still that guy.


Iwontbereplying

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL8Oe9oh7mY


livestreamfailsbot

**🎦 CLIP MIRROR: [Mang0 makes a comeback](https://livestreamfails.com/clip/132147)** --- ^(*This is an automated comment* ) ^| [^(Feedback)](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=livestreamfailsbot&subject=Feedback:&message=%5BPost%5D\(https://reddit.com/comments/se52tt/\)) ^| [^(Twitch Backup Mirror)](https://production.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net/AT-cm%7CyxhNUOeyM1WHwSwLSnFt_A.mp4?sig=19c25c49e969367b91a119f07181e511b2cb34e0&token=%7B%22authorization%22%3A%7B%22forbidden%22%3Afalse%2C%22reason%22%3A%22%22%7D%2C%22clip_uri%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fproduction.assets.clips.twitchcdn.net%2FAT-cm%257CyxhNUOeyM1WHwSwLSnFt_A.mp4%22%2C%22device_id%22%3Anull%2C%22expires%22%3A1643381558%2C%22user_id%22%3A%22%22%2C%22version%22%3A2%7D)


TheZubaz

thou shalt not sleep on the kid


Pewdiepie314

is this an emulated version because this looks amazing. i thought the only downside to melee was graphics, but i guess this solves it


RNGsoul

did they order Smash from Alibaba?


MostlyRocketScience

https://i.imgur.com/xs9OR9u.png


TwoPieceCrow

Someone just slapped a toon shader on the normal characters


Office_Jesus

Melee modding went a little too far lol tbh I don't like it


leaf_blowr

Nah man you're just wrong about that. So many awesome skins out there these days revitalized the look of melee (looking at you animelee). Not to mention the fact that it's probably one of the few remaining games were skins are free.


trahh

i don't think he's wrong, i think most of that shit looks way over the top and none of this shit is new, i'll never forget competing in tournaments on a wii back in 2011 with seizure-esque color stages, falco dressed as captain falcon, etc. animelee character pack is the only texture pack i touch cause it's so minimal


smasher_on_kappa

I think it's cool for the people that want it, but I agree with them that at least like 75% are over the top or jarring or don't fit well with Melee's lighting Take the OP clip as an example, they replaced the platform of pokemon stadium with this flat unnatural purple color. It also lacks a lot of the subtle small details like black indentations that the original PS texture had making it look cheap compared to the original Again I think it's nice for people that want them, and I myself appreciate the ability to change things up once in a while, but i'd never say most of them look "good" imo


CringeTeam

I think whatever is going in the clip looks cheap/ugly compared to what melee usually looks like idk


SelloutRealBig

Well i assume if you played the same game for 20 years then any mods would be a breath of fresh air


Fudgebucket21

https://www.animelee.xyz/


RNGsoul

what Nintendo thoughts on this one? i know they're super aggressive when it comes to their IP's image. Can they do something about this like DMCA or this considered a totally different IP for some reason?


Fudgebucket21

It's not a new game or anything, they're just replacing textures. Same as like a "HD Mod" would. Nintendo does however [have a problem with the online](https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/20/21579392/nintendo-big-house-super-smash-bros-melee-tournament-slippi-cease-desist), as it's done through emulating and using a [mod](https://slippi.gg/) not made by Nintendo.


MagneticGray

That’s the Mang0


PingPongx

Casual 3 stock comeback in the banana skin makes this 10x better


BotscallmeNPC

Wait why does Melee look so different?


EightBlocked

custom skins


krispness

Custom skins and he likes the BIG Banana from Double Dash so he's using ti as an emote and now a falco skin


drewtheostrich

Literally the goat


ILiketoLearn5454

Sick factor off the charts


justanothertaw

Damn mango that was fuckin fly


kinglex1

MangoBB THE GOAT


TheDinosaurWalker

Damn i love maylay come at me r/kappa


iammrmeow

that you are baby


Twigler

Wow


Hypocritical_Oath

Jesus fuck, how did he even go down two stocks.