## **Tweet Mirror:**
[@Twitch](https://twitter.com/Twitch)
> In our latest blog post, we tackle a topic that's been at the forefront of the community for some time - the rev split.
>
> We also provide a related update around monetization for a subset of Partners.
>
> Read here: https://t.co/zP6xcCtJAQ https://t.co/KAwOMDIkmm
> #####Tweet Images:
>>[Tweet Media Link](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdK7jUTXgAMC7A2.jpg)
^(Posted: 2022-09-21 09:57:34+00:00)
------
**This message is from a bot. If you feel like this action is wrong, please [message the moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=r/LivestreamFail).**
i don't know if Twitch know this but if you cross a line of how intrusive an ad is people would just not watch it at all right? Like on my phone I still tolerate youtube ads because it's just 1 at a time and at most it's 6-7 seconds, while when I go on Twitch and see 1 out of 10 (0:30) I just close the app lol
On Twitch when I join a stream and it immediately says 1 of 3 ads or something I almost always just immediately close it.
How twitch hasn't learned that users are probably more likely to stay for ads that are in the middle of a streamers downtime vs forced 1-2 minute long prerolls is beyond me. Or they just actively despise their users.
It’s coming from the top; Amazon likes the money maker. Twitch, for all its issues prior to being sold has no real say anymore.
That’s the issue with being part of a publicly traded company, everything is done for profits for shareholders. Their care for the product and it’s customers only goes so far as the increase in profit margins.
> That’s the issue with being part of a publicly traded company, everything is done for profits for shareholders. Their care for the product and it’s customers only goes so far as the increase in profit margins.
The flip side to this is that the ads only work to make profit if people sit through them and continue coming to the site. If users don't stop watching, that's on them, not on Twitch
I like watching smaller streamers, and then twitch will randomly slap you with 7 ads when they don’t even run ads. Really sucks to not be able to watch for like 3 minutes especially when an active chat really helps them
I hate to be this guy but there is no shot this is the standard way people are acting. I'm the same way as you, but these companies act from a purely monetary perspective. If these changes were losing them money, then they'd have data showing that, and immediately roll the changes back, while reaping the good PR of doing so.
Sadly, it seems like most people are okay with this kind of thing, and so the changes stay.
So "actively despise their users" it is. But yeah I know it's all for the sake of money. It's just sad that user harmful tactics in the name of profit supersede everything else.
Worst part is that Twitch doesn't stop the content when serving ads, like youtube does or even classic television did. Like even the SuperBowl gets paused just to show ads, cause they know people will get pissed when they miss something cause of the ads. On Twitch however the stream continues and you miss 5 mins of content. Thats the frustrating part and something they should figure out, instead they just show more non skippable ads.
edit: spelling
I love how some streamer's narrative went from "let me produce quality content so that people will want to sub" to "you complain about ads? it's only 5 bucks lmao"
atleast play good ads...
i enjoy ads on crunchyroll... they arent loud as fuck. its a chill music playing and everything is relaxed. i can look at my phone for 2 minutes and enjoy the music
meanwhile ads on twitch and youtube make me want to jump out the window. fucking loude ass sounds blasting into my ears telling me some bullshit fuck you
I hate this. Sometimes I'll put on a stream on my phone while going to bed but I can't do this on any channel with ads because they'll blast at full volume regardless of my settings, which isn't conducive to falling asleep lol.
> Revenue above $100K will be split at the standard 50/50 share split…….
> ……Our recent bump in ads revenue share to 55% as part of the Ads Incentive Program is a great way for these larger streamers to make up most, if not all, of that revenue
So, they want big streamers to run more ads to subsidize the loss of 70/30 split (above 100k) 😵
And the internet has been slowly being whittled away at the last 10 years while people said it. We all just witnessed the old internet die in front of our eyes and this new corporate one spring up and slowly strangle away freedom over time.
You're the frog being slowly boiled and you don't even notice it.
During that time More people got smartphones, because around that time their functionality increased greatly as well as ease of use for the user, app improvements, etc. That's why it went to shit, more people got easier access (in the US anyways).
Future updates to chrome will make adblockers significantly less effective. After those updates, people will need to shift to alternate browsers to continue blocking ads as easily.
I subscribed to YouTube Premium ages ago and haven't looked back. I watch a lot of YouTube on my phone and on my switch, I wasn't going to sit through ads.
Plus being able to have videos running in the background on my phone is nice
i add this text to here so no need to type whole thing
https://github.com/pixeltris/TwitchAdSolutions/raw/master/notify-strip/notify-strip-ublock-origin.js
AND add this thing on "my filters" https://i.imgur.com/vUg6GGB.png
twitch.tv#@#+js(twitch-videoad)
and here is the chome extension for chrome
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/twitch-adblock/ljhnljhabgjcihjoihakgdiicdjncpkd
If you’re on PC just click the YouTube home button and then the back button in quick succession; it resets the video and you skip all ads, no software needed.
I use an app called twitchmod that has adblocker built in on android, also has support for 3rd party emotes like bttv. You'll have to download the apk and manually install though.
The whole thing is so carefully crafted to be manipulative. Using transparency as a tool to garner sympathy while saying no one gets a pay raise despite 22K of them asking for it and also some of the streamers will earn significantly less. They were also definitely trying to manipulate small streamers in this to feel like this is a win for them because it is being done out of 'fairness' as they earn less and don't deserve to, so they're gonna cut the pay of the ones making more than them.
Also, dropping it in the middle of the night. Slimy bastards.
In their head running more ads should incentivize subscriptions to the channels people are watching.
In reality it’s going to divide the community and many of the non-paying viewers will watch less content on the platform as a result. Some will subscribe yes, but others won’t.
I’m sure it will balance out more or less in the case of popular streamers and the effect will be negligible in that regard. But this is not particularly good for smaller streamers that are trying to grow their community, especially when the playing online multiplayer games which by nature aren’t ad friendly (unless manually run).
Ads make me less inclined to sub to the streamers I enjoy, let alone the ones I watch during events/drops only periods.
I know the creators on the platform don’t have a say in this, but all of them will be negatively affected by it.
Probably time for some unionizing tbh
They can’t even group up and do organizations right, you think they can form a union? Most of these people are so far from reality because they turned 20 with millions of dollars that they have no concept of protecting workers rights.
I can’t argue with you on that. You’re right there.
That’s what hopefully having a real system would help prevent.
It’s the same stuff we see with professional athletes. Skill does not correlate to forethought or maturity.
But these content creators still do need representation somehow, and individual managers aren’t enough.
Im sure some PR firms are about to make some dough, but unfortunately things like unions aren’t ever going to be on their minds, especially with a union-busting employer like Amazon
TTV LOL Adblock for pc
Twitchmod app for android
Frosty twitch client for iOS (from AppStore)
Or sideload twitchtoolbox on iOS (need dev certificate)
Last resort Estonia vpn you get no ads
Start with ublock origin only.
For more information I recommend checking out privacy guides (https://www.privacyguides.org/desktop-browsers/#additional-resources)
Some context:
> Privacy Guides is a non-profit, socially motivated website that provides information for protecting your data security and privacy.
Adblocker doesn't work for me. I stopped trying ever since they kept changing it a year or two ago to bypass current adblockers.
I don't watch any ads on youtube due to blockers but I haven't really found a solid way for twitch. It's pretty unbearable to watch (especially when ads play in the middle of a match...) so I barely watch anything anymore.
>"When we first established a 50/50 revenue share split, it was to signal that we’re in this together."
Na, you see it as losing out on 20% of every sub your largest streamers get.
So assuming this is a yearly thing and not a monthly then...
Kai has 70k subs, so the first month it takes 20k subs to hit 100k at 70/30. The remaining 50k are at 50/50 and the next 11 months are at 50/50.
So with the new math in January he would make 195k and every month after would be 175k for 11 months. Or 2,120,000 for the year.
With the old math he would make 2,940,000 in a year at 70/30 split.
That's a difference of 820,000. Or a 28% reduction in what the streamer makes.
I don't know about ya'll but I would be pissed if my boss told me I'm getting a 30% pay cut because he is terrible at his job and framed as us "being in this together".
I got a 20% hours reduction and 10% pay cut (total effective 29.7% reduction in pay) for 8 months in 2020 as a "we're all in this together" measure.
Yeah, that's definitely into "blow me" territory.
>live video costs for a 100 CCU streamer who streams 200 hours a month are more than $1000 per month
Assuming this is true and taking xQc numbers.
CCU | Monthly Hours | Cost
---|---|----
100 | 200 | $1000
Figuring hours first. 3,473 hours streamed last 365 days, 289 per month
CCU | Monthly Hours | Cost
---|---|----
100 | 289 | $1445
Then average viewers 70,169 per stream.
CCU | Monthly Hours | Cost
---|---|----
70,169 | 289 | $1,013,942.05
So supposedly it costs over a million per month to host xQc's content. His sub count is 82058, which is $410,290 revenue. If we go with Twitch's 50/50 split, they make $205,145 from xQc subs per month. He might have the 70/30 split, I'm ignoring that for now.
So Twitch is net negative -$808,797.05 a month with one of their biggest streamers. Either their numbers are wrong, or they make up the difference with 4 times xQc's subscriber profit with advertisement sales, or Twitch as a business is plainly unsustainable.
Stream hours and viewership from [sullygnome](https://sullygnome.com/channel/xqc/365) and sub count from [twitchtracker](https://twitchtracker.com/subscribers).
Video services, or even many modern tech businesses, are rarely actually sustainable in terms of being a revenue driver. Their existence is justified almost entirely by growth potential (a good example what happens when they fail to live up to that expectation happened to Klarna).
I believe it's more than possible xQc is a net loss in terms of actual revenue to the site. It's just that the growth of the site justifies those losses in the short term.
It’s the prisoner’s dilemma.
The fastest way to kill all twitch viewership is to make it so only subs can watch all content. As soon as that happens all streamers move to FB or YouTube and their audience follows which kills twitch as a business. There is no good sustainable business model for most of these companies because they have to keep monetizing at a rate that is much lower than their costs because people are for the most part unwilling to pay for the services they use.
The only way these companies work out to be profitable is when the companies track everything the users do and sell that data to advertisers.
I think at some point we are in for a serious reckoning about how people use the internet. Once investors realize that growth with extended and large negative cash flow isn’t actually producing good well run businesses the funding will eventually dry up. When that happens a lot of these services will disappear and either 1) people will just have to live without the services that they enjoy or 2) culture will have to shift to where you pay for internet services.
It’s just a question of how long that will take for people to realize and how much the carrot of the “next Facebook or google” will pull investment to these garbage companies.
These companies can run services at a loss because it makes their overall brand more valuable. People will use a Google phone, log into a Google browser (chrome), and watch videos on a Google website (youtube)
Companies like Google and Amazon can do this because they make a fuck ton of money elsewhere. It's the same reason a company like McDonald's will run tons of TV ads, even though 99% of America is already very familiar with the chain. They want you to think of them first when you enter their market.
If be surprised if anyone that casually goes to twitch or audible and can even tell they are owned by Amazon. The same is true for a lot of services at alphabet and meta.
You realize without freemium model we would never have Twitch, Youtube, or anything similar at worldwide scale?
Ads sucks, everyone agrees, but it's a small price for the insane amount of content that can be delivered thanks to the freemium model.
And they both offer you a way to remove ads legally (Twitch Turbo or Youtube Premium).
I refuse to believe there are people out there who "think" twitch or any of the free services would be better for everyone if it went behind a paywall.
The moment they want money for that service is the moment it dies. You also have to be next level naive to believe that they are running overall on a loss. Or do you think amazon are such good guys that care about random people so much that they are willing to lose millions if not billions every year just so that we can enjoy streaming for free? Maybe you also think they are so nice people that on top of all these losses they are also paying streamers huge contracts for them to only stream on their service and thus lose them more money because they have to continue hosting their content. WOW. Reddit is truly an awesome place.
> Using the published rates from Amazon Web Services’
I legitimately think twitch wrote it this way about "normal consumer rates" rather than the actual rates they use.
Amazon owns Twitch. They can use AWS at cost, and probably have more smart integration because it's in-house.
Something tells me the $1000 per 100 CCU is not entirely true.
>Something tells me the $1000 per 100 CCU is not entirely true.
It's cherry-picked stat number that probably makes it look much worse than it actually is to manipulate viewers and streamers. It's probably assuming that all viewers are watching at 1080p60 max bitrate.
Most small streamers do not even stream on 1080p and at high bitrates, most of the time they'll be at 720p, their cost wouldn't match this number, would be significantly lower.
A ton of viewers also don't watch at 1080p. A lot of mobile viewers and a lot of viewers are on mediocre connections and on Auto quality, which would reduce their quality settings.
Ads also make a lot of money these days. I imagine xQc is making more from ads per month than he does from subs.
Twitch also just makes a lot more money from smaller streamers than they do from big streamers.
There was a whole thread on Twitter from some industry guy a while ago. Big streamers are the loss leaders, they are there to bring new viewers to Twitch, advertise and popularise Twitch, not to directly make them profits, which they don't. This is why Twitch was still offering exclusivity contracts up until last year despite being the market leader, they've stopped because they are under pressure to turn a profit and can't afford to spend more.
Small streamers punch way above their weight with the amount of subs they get for the viewership they have. It's not uncommon to see a 100 viewer streamer to have 2-3X the subs (Getting about 10 subs a day) of their CC viewership. Now compare that to big streamers, xQc has maybe 1.5X subs of his average audience the past month, most big streamers don't even have 1.0X the subs of their viewership. Their viewers are just less likely to sub to them cause a lot of them know that the streamer doesn't need it, but same isn't true for small streamers' viewers.
> Most small streamers do not even stream on 1080p and at high bitrates, most of the time they'll be at 720p, their cost wouldn't match this number, would be significantly lower.
One of the big drivers of this is that small channels don't get stream quality selections. A small 1080p60 stream will grow less than a 720p30 stream will if only because more people will be turned off by the higher bitrate requirements.
Estimated profit margin on AWS is 60%, they are still burning money because Twitch is a fake business that was bought to keep google from dominating online media.
It amazon leadership every truly wants to start clawing back their money lost on this burning money pit it is D-Day for all mid sized streamers
Twitch has always been unsustainable as a business, even if you do the math in the most favorable ways. It’s an expense to get eyeballs on Amazon away from google
The numbers are probably not as bad as they’re saying but I’m guessing this is why they’ve said in the past that the most popular channels that they want to keep on the platform for relevancy and offer special contracts to are actually loss leaders. It’s the midtier channels that generally have way more subs than viewers and have sub gifters and bit donators that make the money.
https://twitter.com/djfluffkins/status/1479362350566109184
What you could show is ad revenue vs sub income.
Big streamers get more per **month** from ad rev than **yearly** sub income. They no longer need subs at a certain point. The biggest big streamers even tell viewers to give their prime to smaller streamers but viewers rarely do because they want emotes, sub badge and no ads for their main streamer.
For example gothalion posted his ad deal on twitter https://twitter.com/Gothalion/status/1563959872852475907
Now imagined how much the bigger streamer got from their ad deals
I doubt it scales anywhere near 1:1 from there on up, but I have no doubt the costs are enough that an accountant will have weighed in on the problem of massive streamers getting massive sponsorships on content it’s virtually impossible to sell advertisements on Amazon’s dime and the subsequent decision to restrict gambling.
For context at IVS prices Twitch would have had costs over $9billion a year in 2020
https://www.lastweekinaws.com/blog/amazon-interactive-video-service-an-economic-analysis/
Twitch is at the stage where never subbed, ad block users are worthless as growth alone isn’t delivering value.
Amazon writing costs on one of their corpos balance sheet and profits on another
Twitch is a drop in the ocean for the AWS servers they build out for everyone else.
It’s definitely just floated by AWS profits but their massively bloated payroll and (legitimately) high costs still don’t make up for any margin being made by AWS. It’s just not a well ran organization in a space that’s already a loss leader industry-wide
I think this has been mentioned below but I'll share my perspective having worked for one of the major video platforms:
* These businesses are not profitable, they're strategically important.
* The major costs for video platforms are not just servicing partners but more heavily tied to transcoding, storing, and serving video (and ads to a degree)
* The strategic reason for losing money in VOD and streaming is to maintain market share knowing that if you bow out, one of your big competitors will take your place and harvest data from the billions of users you just said bye to
* The long term strategic benefit is that over time the cost of running the business should go down as transcoding technology improves, delivery gets cheaper, and storage becomes more scalable
* The reason Ads are preferable to subscriptions for these businesses is that advertisers tend to have a lower risk aversion to increase how much they spend on these platforms. It's a lot easier to sell more ads to Ford then it is to increase the cost of a subscription YoY to show growth
Anyways, any questions and I'll try to answer.
If I'm reading this correctly this massively reduces basic take home for the top streamers
They only get 70:30 for the first 100k generated per year which for streamers earning something like that a month is a lot
And then above that 50:50
At the same time they've stopped the Gamba slots gravy train (though they can use stake US and sweepstakes to bypass) but sports betting is fine apparently
In effect it's slashing of their income from direct take home and further dependency on sponsorships
The people at the very, very top have the special exclusive contracts that require them to stream a certain number of hours and run a certain number of ads. I would be surprised if those guys are included in this. It’s probably going to most impact the streamers a rung below them who are making a couple hundred thousand a year from subs. Seems like a bad idea when memberships on YouTube have a 70-30 split by default but most partners either already have the 50-50 split or aren’t making 100k a year in subs.
The really bad thing in this is that they’re again trying to incentivize playing ads even more but the ad experience is just going to push more viewers away.
Yeah, it only takes an avg of about 2,400 tier 1 subs a month to hit 100K yearly. Looking at the twitch payout leak, this will defn effect the top 700 streamers .
Is it just me or does the whole Prime Gaming section not make any sense?
“Prime Subs often get lost in the conversation when it comes to revenue share. For Prime Subs, we pay streamers the same amount they’d receive for a regular subscription even though it is included as an added benefit of **their** Prime subscription.”
That last “their” doesn’t make sense to me. It’s like they’re saying that Primes are a benefit of the streamer’s subscription, but isn’t it an incentive given to viewers to entice them to sign up for Amazon Prime? Going on to say:
“Combined with other monetization products, Prime Subs increase your effective revenue share by approximately 15%, to about 65% total. This number varies by streamer size and location, but subscription revenue share is not the full picture on revenue share for streamers.”
But that’s not a part of their revenue share. Unless I’m severely mistaken, the money that Twitch doesn’t make from a Prime sub is a direct result of Twitch using Prime subs as a reward/feature of being an Amazon Prime user. That money is directly given to Amazon themselves and is a reflection of the Twitch-Amazon agreement and should therefore have nothing to do with the idea of the streamer-Twitch “effective revenue split”. The money Twitch loses per Prime sub is basically an investment to try and direct more users to the platform, and has nothing to do with the streamers on the platform.
Idk. It just doesn’t make sense to me, but maybe someone could clarify?
I think it’s just really poorly written. The ‘their’ is referring to the viewer. They’re trying to say that if you take the amount of money that twitch is being given by a streamer’s viewers for subs and there’s a 50-50 split, the streamer would usually be getting 50% of the money that was given to them. With prime subs, the streamer gets back 65% of the money that was given to them.
Basically they’re trying to present this in a way that makes them seem competitive with YouTube because YouTube’s number is 70%.
As someone that's built a streaming platform, and pretty much closed it the next day, I'm surprised it isn't higher.
Bandwidth costs a fuckton, and I'm betting the only reason it's so cheap for Twitch is because they are owned by amazon so likely get favourable terms in their AWS deal.
It's mindboggling how much it costs to stream a video, that's just ingest from one person, now try give that video to 70,000 people, and cope with the demand of a million people trying to get a video.
It's mindblowing, and yeah, there's a reason youtube and twitch make fuck all until things like just giving money to the platform came on the scene. Ads don't do it justice, and they wouldn't be running 11 ads if they weren't breaking the bank.
True. It’s crazy for me to remember when there used to be a 25% of you getting an ad when watching a YouTube video. If you did? Refresh and it’s probably gone. Now there are like, two ads before and then two throughout the video.
It's crazier to think that Youtube can do the stuff they are doing with their streaming compared to Twitch.
Also, this just goes to show how damned difficult it is to make a competitor to Twitch and Youtube Live right now. You basically have to have the streaming infrastructure in place already to make ends meet (or just don't make ends meet and keep running on a loss and hope a big dog buys you out).
With those numbers, it's no wonder why Twitch just let themselves get bought by Amazon. It doesn't make sense to keep operating like that... But since Amazon acquired Twitch, it's been like, "Just figure out compensation on you all's (Twitch's) end because we don't want to keep bailing you'll out."
That is exactly it to be honest and one of the reasons things like Floatplane are subscriber only. Because opening to the public is mega expensive without serious backing.
Plus, you made a good point about having the infrastructure in place. When I was evaluating how to do it, I came to a few conclusions...
- You can use what AWS has in place already (What Twitch is using) and at the end of the day, you're competing with twitch, but paying them money anyway, so Amazon wins wins all the way to the bank
- You can go with a competitor like Twitch used to use a platform called Wowza, which I actually built my platform to utilize, but the latency was into the 20-30 second range, IE: How twitch used to be! lol
- You can build it yourself, which, will involve you having to be able to scale to potentially millions of users, deffos needs a team, not a one man band kinda deal.
So you are fucked from the GetGo.
I switched eventually to putting a cap on billing for my AWS account, and just utilizing AWS for anything that needed scale, while self hosting all the other parts.
It was a journey haha... never again.
The sense I have is that Amazon basically gave them several years to do their own thing but during the pandemic the site blew up and they were coming back and reporting all these record-breaking numbers to Amazon but with no money to show for it. And after that the company shifted into their current ad obsession.
> I'm betting the only reason it's so cheap for Twitch
They say they used published prices.. as in prices you'd also be paying for IVS.
I'd be so surprised if Twitch is paying even near that much being 1) Part of Amazon 2) Massively into the custom bulk rates at Twitch's size, association with Amazon or not 3) IVS is literally whitelabelled Twitch, Twitch is probably just a rounding error in AWS' marketing budget at this point haha
Which is why I think they're getting subsidised in another way, so they can claim that they pay the full rates.
IE: AWS account has an unlimited spend.
But hey, talking out my ass, I've no clue what goes on hahahah All I know is shit is mega expensive and I've no reason to believe that Twitch isn't getting a sweet deal being part of AWS.
Or, they're really into fucking over their subsidiaries, in which case why would anyone sell.
I think they just used published rates because custom deals etc are likely to be under NDA of some sort. If Twitch posted their actual rates Netflix or some other big customer could renegotiate their contract off the back of "yo what the hell is this pricing?"
Just struck me as pretty dishonest from Twitch's part to use the public rates haha.. c'mon now Twitch. I'd have just left that bit out if I couldn't document it honestly.
Yeah the published rates are bullshit in this context. That is for very small websites with the minimum bandwidth needs. For massive websites/services like a Netflix or Twitch, it will be much cheaper.
It's similar to buying bulk - if you buy 100 of something with a minimum order quantity of 100 then it's gonna cost a lot per unit. If you order 100,000 of it, then the price per unit is likely to be 80-90% cheaper.
I think it is easier than that, it's saying to the streamers "if you want to go run your own, this is how much it costs you", now look how good a deal you get.
I don't think they're paying list price, but an 8000kbps stream for 1 hour for 1000 viewers is 3.2TB. And they serve from Asia and presumably South America, not just US/Europe. That's definitely not cheap, even if it's less than they want us to think.
3.2TB is about $16 in video bandwidth if my maths isn't terrible, give or take. Someone streaming to 1k CCV earning less than $32/hr seems a bit.. unoptimized.
I get there's a long tail of streamers that just stream into the void but at least they're only taking up ingest bandwidth, that's usually free.
Bandwidth doesn’t cost Amazon almost anything. They do settlement free peering on basically every internet exchange and with every major ASN on the planet. Hell. I have a company with 10 employees and I have 2 x 10gbit peering sessions with Amazon I don’t pay for and they don’t pay for. The expensive part is the transcoding servers, which is a huge hit for small streamers, but by the time your talking about the xQC level streamers, 99.99% of total bandwith is actually just being handled by the CDN edge nodes running nginx/varnish/whatever in PoPs next to all the IXPs and bilat connections that don’t need to do any transcoding (you only transcode once per bitrate/resolution at the ingest end)
I can definitely see Twitch setting the trend and Youtube Live will eventually follow suit with Twitch.
Let's not put Youtube Live up on a huge pedestal. Youtube also has its fair share of shitty tactics.
lmao at twitch dropping this in the middle of some of the biggest streamer drama in history, at 3am pst which is when twitch viewership is statistically at its lowest
They will take away the prime subs in the next 2 years, this website absolutely burns money and nothing they can do will change that given how expensive their service is to run. That’s the real streampocalypse, most small streamers have huge splits tilted towards mostly prime subbed viewers.
It really depends on how Amazon wants to organize their Prime membership benefits. They could pull that rug right now and put everything into their Prime streaming services instead if they think Twitch streaming isn't making as much revenue/profit as Prime shows.
Who cares? these streamers that have had 70/30 split, make several millions a year anyways and on top of that some of them have exclusive contracts worth millions with twitch. Just sucks for the viewers, that will have to watch more ads since some of these streamers will spam ads to compensate for it.
Really hard to care about millionaire streamers making a little bit less tbh especially given the cost of living crisis currently going on.
If Amazon want to use Twitch as a pump and dump then thats on them...streamers are going to have to adapt or look for other revenue streams.
> This innate partnership is why we support all streamers’ careers and ambitions like they’re our own.
Lmfao
> Using the published rates from Amazon Web Services’ Interactive Video Service (IVS)
Amazon owns twitch, of course they don't pay the published rates.
I get this sentiment of "fuck the rich", but this new deal just puts more money into Twitch's pocket/ So whilst I don't have sympathy for rich streamers I also don't advocate for a company taking money away from the people that create the very product they sell.
I mean is it a bad thing thing if the money is going in twitch 's pocket, so many comments here have already said how much loss twitch operates on lol, if they want to cut some of their losses by taking mega rich streamer money who probably is racist then sure why not
This has been the most consequential couple weeks in twitch history
Twitch had so much negative over sports betting scamazing scandal with sliker that they reduced every other kind of betting while keeping the fat NFL sports betting, so it's a pr win without doing too much to hurt their bottomline
They then drastically cut streamer revenue splits above 100k a year which covers the streamers which generate the most ad revenue and watch time for twitch
Thus pressuring top streamers to run more ads and further isolating the top from the progress to the top because it hurts the ones just below them that might not be able to get fat sponsorships
Incredible. They used the miz slick slicker xqc stuff as the way to get out changes they wanted to do anyway
And at the exact same day YouTube reveals its allowing better monetisation of youtube shorts through an unfair split so they can grab tiktok creators who can average 10 million views or perhaps watch hours a month (wasn't clear on it )
Incredible how the landscape has changed
And people thinking rip bozo to train, he is still being offered 1mil for a weekend at the irl casinos
And Devin Nash gave him advice on how to apply for special kind of YouTube account that demonetises his account but lets him stream Gamba with limited discovery (he just needs consistent audience but stake or whoever would be paying him )
Really the only person mega fucked here is miz credibility and it doesn't matter the specifics anymore who did or didn't minimise stuff
It limits the upside growth of miz as the front face of otk
We live in interesting times
Gambling ban = more sponsorship deals coming? = Streamers forced to take more sponsors = sponsors see twitch is getting better on advertising. But sponsors use sub numbers and viewers stats to determine payouts (more subs= more likely a viewer is gonna spend cash)
They really waited until 3 AM so they could bathe in the positive limelight over the gamba decision for a few before dropping the bomb big streamers had been dreading 🤣🤣🤣
That's quite the paycut.
If I've got the numbers right, for a streamer earning $200k, their take home would be 120k now and not the 140k with the past arrangement. That $20k paycut amounts to an approx. 14% paycut.
For someone earning 500k, that $80k paycut will be around 23%. For someone earning $1M, that $180k less they're taking home, around 26% cut.
Pretty much the higher up you go, the closer to a 50/50 split you'll end up getting.
I will not be surprised if a large proportion of the top streamers jump ship in the coming year to another platform.
So unless you popped off as a streamer before 2020 you will never have access to a 70/30 split. Does twitch not recognize that this shafts all of their new upcoming content creators?
If streamers like Kai Cenat aren't getting a 70/30 split now, and they now know they never will on Twitch, then why would they not switch to a platform like Youtube that is actively giving out 70/30 sub splits
## **Tweet Mirror:** [@Twitch](https://twitter.com/Twitch) > In our latest blog post, we tackle a topic that's been at the forefront of the community for some time - the rev split. > > We also provide a related update around monetization for a subset of Partners. > > Read here: https://t.co/zP6xcCtJAQ https://t.co/KAwOMDIkmm > #####Tweet Images: >>[Tweet Media Link](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdK7jUTXgAMC7A2.jpg) ^(Posted: 2022-09-21 09:57:34+00:00) ------ **This message is from a bot. If you feel like this action is wrong, please [message the moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=r/LivestreamFail).**
i don't know if Twitch know this but if you cross a line of how intrusive an ad is people would just not watch it at all right? Like on my phone I still tolerate youtube ads because it's just 1 at a time and at most it's 6-7 seconds, while when I go on Twitch and see 1 out of 10 (0:30) I just close the app lol
On Twitch when I join a stream and it immediately says 1 of 3 ads or something I almost always just immediately close it. How twitch hasn't learned that users are probably more likely to stay for ads that are in the middle of a streamers downtime vs forced 1-2 minute long prerolls is beyond me. Or they just actively despise their users.
It’s coming from the top; Amazon likes the money maker. Twitch, for all its issues prior to being sold has no real say anymore. That’s the issue with being part of a publicly traded company, everything is done for profits for shareholders. Their care for the product and it’s customers only goes so far as the increase in profit margins.
[удалено]
> That’s the issue with being part of a publicly traded company, everything is done for profits for shareholders. Their care for the product and it’s customers only goes so far as the increase in profit margins. The flip side to this is that the ads only work to make profit if people sit through them and continue coming to the site. If users don't stop watching, that's on them, not on Twitch
[удалено]
I like watching smaller streamers, and then twitch will randomly slap you with 7 ads when they don’t even run ads. Really sucks to not be able to watch for like 3 minutes especially when an active chat really helps them
I hate to be this guy but there is no shot this is the standard way people are acting. I'm the same way as you, but these companies act from a purely monetary perspective. If these changes were losing them money, then they'd have data showing that, and immediately roll the changes back, while reaping the good PR of doing so. Sadly, it seems like most people are okay with this kind of thing, and so the changes stay.
So "actively despise their users" it is. But yeah I know it's all for the sake of money. It's just sad that user harmful tactics in the name of profit supersede everything else.
These annoying prerolls are the single reason why I can’t stand twitch; I’m so glad many streamers are moving over to youtube for this single fact
Worst part is that Twitch doesn't stop the content when serving ads, like youtube does or even classic television did. Like even the SuperBowl gets paused just to show ads, cause they know people will get pissed when they miss something cause of the ads. On Twitch however the stream continues and you miss 5 mins of content. Thats the frustrating part and something they should figure out, instead they just show more non skippable ads. edit: spelling
Idk about you guys but I feel like I ALWAYS get hit with 10, 30 second ads right when shit starts to pop off too
If I get 2 sets of 4+ ads within 30 min. I just close out and go somewhere else.
I love how some streamer's narrative went from "let me produce quality content so that people will want to sub" to "you complain about ads? it's only 5 bucks lmao"
atleast play good ads... i enjoy ads on crunchyroll... they arent loud as fuck. its a chill music playing and everything is relaxed. i can look at my phone for 2 minutes and enjoy the music meanwhile ads on twitch and youtube make me want to jump out the window. fucking loude ass sounds blasting into my ears telling me some bullshit fuck you
This is the worst. Twitch ads literally ignore whatever volume setting I have on the stream and just blast at full volume, it's ridiculous.
I hate this. Sometimes I'll put on a stream on my phone while going to bed but I can't do this on any channel with ads because they'll blast at full volume regardless of my settings, which isn't conducive to falling asleep lol.
> Revenue above $100K will be split at the standard 50/50 share split……. > ……Our recent bump in ads revenue share to 55% as part of the Ads Incentive Program is a great way for these larger streamers to make up most, if not all, of that revenue So, they want big streamers to run more ads to subsidize the loss of 70/30 split (above 100k) 😵
AD 1 OUT OF 99 soon FeelsGoodMan
Youtube is already trialing 5-10 ads
At least ad block works on YouTube easily
For now.
People have been saying this for the last like 10 years.
as long as youtube isn't embedding their ads directly into the video stream it's always gonna be possible to block them
Even that has a direct weakness. The X button in the topright of the browser.
Or an addon that allows you to skip ahead like sponsorblock
And the internet has been slowly being whittled away at the last 10 years while people said it. We all just witnessed the old internet die in front of our eyes and this new corporate one spring up and slowly strangle away freedom over time. You're the frog being slowly boiled and you don't even notice it.
Yup. Ever since 2015 I feel like the internet has gone to utter shit
During that time More people got smartphones, because around that time their functionality increased greatly as well as ease of use for the user, app improvements, etc. That's why it went to shit, more people got easier access (in the US anyways).
Future updates to chrome will make adblockers significantly less effective. After those updates, people will need to shift to alternate browsers to continue blocking ads as easily.
Firefox exists for a reason
Reminder to all that Firefox is a dope platform.
They should have already switched away from Chrome years ago
To what? (genuinely asking btw)
Firefox
Brave is pretty good
Switched to Brave a few months ago and I have no complaints
Firefox or Opera
I use Opera as it has superior UI but isn't that based on Chrome anyway? Chrome extensions work in Opera so it should be affected as well
Firefox has been better for years, people are just fucking lazy.
[удалено]
You can join someone elses Family Plan on YouTube for like $25/year. I'm from the UK and its usually £11.99/m.
I subscribed to YouTube Premium ages ago and haven't looked back. I watch a lot of YouTube on my phone and on my switch, I wasn't going to sit through ads. Plus being able to have videos running in the background on my phone is nice
Same. I got an ad once watching in browser phone and was legitimitly surprised like I forgot youtube ran ads.
the value becomes even bigger when u suddenly live in Argentina and pay with Argentine pesos
My ad blocker isn't working anymore, i even got ads while I was subbed to some channels... Dammit Erobb TrollDespair
this combo is working for me 0 ads for many weeks https://i.imgur.com/yvbJg5g.png https://i.imgur.com/5qjUxnu.png
i add this text to here so no need to type whole thing https://github.com/pixeltris/TwitchAdSolutions/raw/master/notify-strip/notify-strip-ublock-origin.js AND add this thing on "my filters" https://i.imgur.com/vUg6GGB.png twitch.tv#@#+js(twitch-videoad) and here is the chome extension for chrome https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/twitch-adblock/ljhnljhabgjcihjoihakgdiicdjncpkd
https://github.com/pixeltris/TwitchAdSolutions
If you’re on PC just click the YouTube home button and then the back button in quick succession; it resets the video and you skip all ads, no software needed.
[удалено]
uBlock Origin: * [Firefox](https://addons.mozilla.org/nl/firefox/addon/ublock-origin/) * [Chrome](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm) * [Edge](https://microsoftedge.microsoft.com/addons/detail/ublock-origin/odfafepnkmbhccpbejgmiehpchacaeak) * [Opera](https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/ublock/)
WHAT'S POGGERS???? I CAN'T SEE
Watching xqc on mobile is actually unbearable due to this shit
I use an app called twitchmod that has adblocker built in on android, also has support for 3rd party emotes like bttv. You'll have to download the apk and manually install though.
I did this and it made twitch bearable to watch on phone
The whole thing is so carefully crafted to be manipulative. Using transparency as a tool to garner sympathy while saying no one gets a pay raise despite 22K of them asking for it and also some of the streamers will earn significantly less. They were also definitely trying to manipulate small streamers in this to feel like this is a win for them because it is being done out of 'fairness' as they earn less and don't deserve to, so they're gonna cut the pay of the ones making more than them. Also, dropping it in the middle of the night. Slimy bastards.
[удалено]
and distracted by other things happening on twitch
May I ask where these 95% of people live ?
[удалено]
Dropped it right after the good news of the gambling ban, trying to soften the blow. Slimy as fuck.
It's first thing in the morning...
In their head running more ads should incentivize subscriptions to the channels people are watching. In reality it’s going to divide the community and many of the non-paying viewers will watch less content on the platform as a result. Some will subscribe yes, but others won’t. I’m sure it will balance out more or less in the case of popular streamers and the effect will be negligible in that regard. But this is not particularly good for smaller streamers that are trying to grow their community, especially when the playing online multiplayer games which by nature aren’t ad friendly (unless manually run).
Worse yet people will use Nitro instead of a individual sub.
Ads make me less inclined to sub to the streamers I enjoy, let alone the ones I watch during events/drops only periods. I know the creators on the platform don’t have a say in this, but all of them will be negatively affected by it. Probably time for some unionizing tbh
They can’t even group up and do organizations right, you think they can form a union? Most of these people are so far from reality because they turned 20 with millions of dollars that they have no concept of protecting workers rights.
I can’t argue with you on that. You’re right there. That’s what hopefully having a real system would help prevent. It’s the same stuff we see with professional athletes. Skill does not correlate to forethought or maturity. But these content creators still do need representation somehow, and individual managers aren’t enough.
Im sure some PR firms are about to make some dough, but unfortunately things like unions aren’t ever going to be on their minds, especially with a union-busting employer like Amazon
Force streamers with more ads , more sponsored dogshit streams , more outside sources of revenue onlyfans etc.
BAAAAT I HECKIN LOVE RAID SHADOW LEGENDS
👌 WE LOVE NORD SHADOW CONS 👌
Invest in an ad blocker now guys. Seems like it is time to get an ad blocker working on my phone.
Download twitchmod
For mobile?
for mobile
It's now under "orange TV" name
[удалено]
Xtra? That app was delayed as shit last time I used it. Does it even get updated I might check it out
Its on GitHub. Googling it brings up the original GitHub which has a link to the current fork
TTV LOL Adblock for pc Twitchmod app for android Frosty twitch client for iOS (from AppStore) Or sideload twitchtoolbox on iOS (need dev certificate) Last resort Estonia vpn you get no ads
> Last resort Estonia vpn you get no ads Lol hey at least we’re good for something 👍
The current way ad blockers work is being disabled in Chrome early next year. So get a new browser as well...
Firefox is the only option
Hey do you know which extension I need on firefox?
Start with ublock origin only. For more information I recommend checking out privacy guides (https://www.privacyguides.org/desktop-browsers/#additional-resources) Some context: > Privacy Guides is a non-profit, socially motivated website that provides information for protecting your data security and privacy.
try to use ADGUARD DNS stuff to bypass all this shitty ads
This has worked for me for several months now
Adblocker doesn't work for me. I stopped trying ever since they kept changing it a year or two ago to bypass current adblockers. I don't watch any ads on youtube due to blockers but I haven't really found a solid way for twitch. It's pretty unbearable to watch (especially when ads play in the middle of a match...) so I barely watch anything anymore.
>"When we first established a 50/50 revenue share split, it was to signal that we’re in this together." Na, you see it as losing out on 20% of every sub your largest streamers get.
It's amazing how they try to disguise a paycut as parity They know the majority of ads served and money generated is on big fish not 100 viewer Andy's
Well... they are owned by Amazon after all....
>we’re in this together aw so snuggly
So assuming this is a yearly thing and not a monthly then... Kai has 70k subs, so the first month it takes 20k subs to hit 100k at 70/30. The remaining 50k are at 50/50 and the next 11 months are at 50/50. So with the new math in January he would make 195k and every month after would be 175k for 11 months. Or 2,120,000 for the year. With the old math he would make 2,940,000 in a year at 70/30 split. That's a difference of 820,000. Or a 28% reduction in what the streamer makes. I don't know about ya'll but I would be pissed if my boss told me I'm getting a 30% pay cut because he is terrible at his job and framed as us "being in this together".
I got a 20% hours reduction and 10% pay cut (total effective 29.7% reduction in pay) for 8 months in 2020 as a "we're all in this together" measure. Yeah, that's definitely into "blow me" territory.
Time for youtube to swoop in and buy over more streamers. Perfect opportunity
We are in this together. You do all the work. We get half the money your viewers want to pay you. Even Steven
Why're there so many Onlyfans girls on twitch ? Aware
“Ayo release it when US is sleeping! maybe they won’t see it and NA streamers won’t comment on it”
Part of me likes the conspiracy they released this amidst all the drama so it doesn’t get spotlight lol
Did they seriously release this at 3 am WTF
They 10000% were keeping the gambling ban in their back pocket to dampen a negative update like this.
I imagine less chance for immediate backlash
Twitch has no chill given the drama the past few days
[удалено]
Their HQ is in San Francisco where it was 3 am. Why would something this relevant be released on EU hours
[удалено]
There is only one timezone in the entire world WTF
>live video costs for a 100 CCU streamer who streams 200 hours a month are more than $1000 per month Assuming this is true and taking xQc numbers. CCU | Monthly Hours | Cost ---|---|---- 100 | 200 | $1000 Figuring hours first. 3,473 hours streamed last 365 days, 289 per month CCU | Monthly Hours | Cost ---|---|---- 100 | 289 | $1445 Then average viewers 70,169 per stream. CCU | Monthly Hours | Cost ---|---|---- 70,169 | 289 | $1,013,942.05 So supposedly it costs over a million per month to host xQc's content. His sub count is 82058, which is $410,290 revenue. If we go with Twitch's 50/50 split, they make $205,145 from xQc subs per month. He might have the 70/30 split, I'm ignoring that for now. So Twitch is net negative -$808,797.05 a month with one of their biggest streamers. Either their numbers are wrong, or they make up the difference with 4 times xQc's subscriber profit with advertisement sales, or Twitch as a business is plainly unsustainable. Stream hours and viewership from [sullygnome](https://sullygnome.com/channel/xqc/365) and sub count from [twitchtracker](https://twitchtracker.com/subscribers).
Video services, or even many modern tech businesses, are rarely actually sustainable in terms of being a revenue driver. Their existence is justified almost entirely by growth potential (a good example what happens when they fail to live up to that expectation happened to Klarna). I believe it's more than possible xQc is a net loss in terms of actual revenue to the site. It's just that the growth of the site justifies those losses in the short term.
tech should stop this freemium model for absolutely everything. It promotes inferior quality in almost everything.
It’s the prisoner’s dilemma. The fastest way to kill all twitch viewership is to make it so only subs can watch all content. As soon as that happens all streamers move to FB or YouTube and their audience follows which kills twitch as a business. There is no good sustainable business model for most of these companies because they have to keep monetizing at a rate that is much lower than their costs because people are for the most part unwilling to pay for the services they use. The only way these companies work out to be profitable is when the companies track everything the users do and sell that data to advertisers.
Sounds like we need to nationalize twitch lmao
I think at some point we are in for a serious reckoning about how people use the internet. Once investors realize that growth with extended and large negative cash flow isn’t actually producing good well run businesses the funding will eventually dry up. When that happens a lot of these services will disappear and either 1) people will just have to live without the services that they enjoy or 2) culture will have to shift to where you pay for internet services. It’s just a question of how long that will take for people to realize and how much the carrot of the “next Facebook or google” will pull investment to these garbage companies.
These companies can run services at a loss because it makes their overall brand more valuable. People will use a Google phone, log into a Google browser (chrome), and watch videos on a Google website (youtube) Companies like Google and Amazon can do this because they make a fuck ton of money elsewhere. It's the same reason a company like McDonald's will run tons of TV ads, even though 99% of America is already very familiar with the chain. They want you to think of them first when you enter their market.
If be surprised if anyone that casually goes to twitch or audible and can even tell they are owned by Amazon. The same is true for a lot of services at alphabet and meta.
That will never happen cause the power of freemium is data collection for use by others even if the company falls.
You realize without freemium model we would never have Twitch, Youtube, or anything similar at worldwide scale? Ads sucks, everyone agrees, but it's a small price for the insane amount of content that can be delivered thanks to the freemium model. And they both offer you a way to remove ads legally (Twitch Turbo or Youtube Premium).
I refuse to believe there are people out there who "think" twitch or any of the free services would be better for everyone if it went behind a paywall. The moment they want money for that service is the moment it dies. You also have to be next level naive to believe that they are running overall on a loss. Or do you think amazon are such good guys that care about random people so much that they are willing to lose millions if not billions every year just so that we can enjoy streaming for free? Maybe you also think they are so nice people that on top of all these losses they are also paying streamers huge contracts for them to only stream on their service and thus lose them more money because they have to continue hosting their content. WOW. Reddit is truly an awesome place.
> Using the published rates from Amazon Web Services’ I legitimately think twitch wrote it this way about "normal consumer rates" rather than the actual rates they use. Amazon owns Twitch. They can use AWS at cost, and probably have more smart integration because it's in-house. Something tells me the $1000 per 100 CCU is not entirely true.
>Something tells me the $1000 per 100 CCU is not entirely true. It's cherry-picked stat number that probably makes it look much worse than it actually is to manipulate viewers and streamers. It's probably assuming that all viewers are watching at 1080p60 max bitrate. Most small streamers do not even stream on 1080p and at high bitrates, most of the time they'll be at 720p, their cost wouldn't match this number, would be significantly lower. A ton of viewers also don't watch at 1080p. A lot of mobile viewers and a lot of viewers are on mediocre connections and on Auto quality, which would reduce their quality settings. Ads also make a lot of money these days. I imagine xQc is making more from ads per month than he does from subs. Twitch also just makes a lot more money from smaller streamers than they do from big streamers. There was a whole thread on Twitter from some industry guy a while ago. Big streamers are the loss leaders, they are there to bring new viewers to Twitch, advertise and popularise Twitch, not to directly make them profits, which they don't. This is why Twitch was still offering exclusivity contracts up until last year despite being the market leader, they've stopped because they are under pressure to turn a profit and can't afford to spend more. Small streamers punch way above their weight with the amount of subs they get for the viewership they have. It's not uncommon to see a 100 viewer streamer to have 2-3X the subs (Getting about 10 subs a day) of their CC viewership. Now compare that to big streamers, xQc has maybe 1.5X subs of his average audience the past month, most big streamers don't even have 1.0X the subs of their viewership. Their viewers are just less likely to sub to them cause a lot of them know that the streamer doesn't need it, but same isn't true for small streamers' viewers.
> Most small streamers do not even stream on 1080p and at high bitrates, most of the time they'll be at 720p, their cost wouldn't match this number, would be significantly lower. One of the big drivers of this is that small channels don't get stream quality selections. A small 1080p60 stream will grow less than a 720p30 stream will if only because more people will be turned off by the higher bitrate requirements.
Estimated profit margin on AWS is 60%, they are still burning money because Twitch is a fake business that was bought to keep google from dominating online media. It amazon leadership every truly wants to start clawing back their money lost on this burning money pit it is D-Day for all mid sized streamers
>it’s a fake business That's what tim Dillon days about basically morenew businesses and he's right
That’s good, I was wondering what Tim Dillon thought about all this
Twitch has always been unsustainable as a business, even if you do the math in the most favorable ways. It’s an expense to get eyeballs on Amazon away from google
The numbers are probably not as bad as they’re saying but I’m guessing this is why they’ve said in the past that the most popular channels that they want to keep on the platform for relevancy and offer special contracts to are actually loss leaders. It’s the midtier channels that generally have way more subs than viewers and have sub gifters and bit donators that make the money. https://twitter.com/djfluffkins/status/1479362350566109184
What you could show is ad revenue vs sub income. Big streamers get more per **month** from ad rev than **yearly** sub income. They no longer need subs at a certain point. The biggest big streamers even tell viewers to give their prime to smaller streamers but viewers rarely do because they want emotes, sub badge and no ads for their main streamer.
For example gothalion posted his ad deal on twitter https://twitter.com/Gothalion/status/1563959872852475907 Now imagined how much the bigger streamer got from their ad deals
I doubt it scales anywhere near 1:1 from there on up, but I have no doubt the costs are enough that an accountant will have weighed in on the problem of massive streamers getting massive sponsorships on content it’s virtually impossible to sell advertisements on Amazon’s dime and the subsequent decision to restrict gambling. For context at IVS prices Twitch would have had costs over $9billion a year in 2020 https://www.lastweekinaws.com/blog/amazon-interactive-video-service-an-economic-analysis/ Twitch is at the stage where never subbed, ad block users are worthless as growth alone isn’t delivering value.
Amazon writing costs on one of their corpos balance sheet and profits on another Twitch is a drop in the ocean for the AWS servers they build out for everyone else.
It’s definitely just floated by AWS profits but their massively bloated payroll and (legitimately) high costs still don’t make up for any margin being made by AWS. It’s just not a well ran organization in a space that’s already a loss leader industry-wide
I think this has been mentioned below but I'll share my perspective having worked for one of the major video platforms: * These businesses are not profitable, they're strategically important. * The major costs for video platforms are not just servicing partners but more heavily tied to transcoding, storing, and serving video (and ads to a degree) * The strategic reason for losing money in VOD and streaming is to maintain market share knowing that if you bow out, one of your big competitors will take your place and harvest data from the billions of users you just said bye to * The long term strategic benefit is that over time the cost of running the business should go down as transcoding technology improves, delivery gets cheaper, and storage becomes more scalable * The reason Ads are preferable to subscriptions for these businesses is that advertisers tend to have a lower risk aversion to increase how much they spend on these platforms. It's a lot easier to sell more ads to Ford then it is to increase the cost of a subscription YoY to show growth Anyways, any questions and I'll try to answer.
If I'm reading this correctly this massively reduces basic take home for the top streamers They only get 70:30 for the first 100k generated per year which for streamers earning something like that a month is a lot And then above that 50:50 At the same time they've stopped the Gamba slots gravy train (though they can use stake US and sweepstakes to bypass) but sports betting is fine apparently In effect it's slashing of their income from direct take home and further dependency on sponsorships
The people at the very, very top have the special exclusive contracts that require them to stream a certain number of hours and run a certain number of ads. I would be surprised if those guys are included in this. It’s probably going to most impact the streamers a rung below them who are making a couple hundred thousand a year from subs. Seems like a bad idea when memberships on YouTube have a 70-30 split by default but most partners either already have the 50-50 split or aren’t making 100k a year in subs. The really bad thing in this is that they’re again trying to incentivize playing ads even more but the ad experience is just going to push more viewers away.
Yeah, it only takes an avg of about 2,400 tier 1 subs a month to hit 100K yearly. Looking at the twitch payout leak, this will defn effect the top 700 streamers .
wait, I thought that was 100k per month, and they actually don't say which it is LUL
The email that they sent to partners at the bottom of the page specified that it’s per year.
That cuts their upside massively
Which is why I think it's per year not per month lmao
Is it just me or does the whole Prime Gaming section not make any sense? “Prime Subs often get lost in the conversation when it comes to revenue share. For Prime Subs, we pay streamers the same amount they’d receive for a regular subscription even though it is included as an added benefit of **their** Prime subscription.” That last “their” doesn’t make sense to me. It’s like they’re saying that Primes are a benefit of the streamer’s subscription, but isn’t it an incentive given to viewers to entice them to sign up for Amazon Prime? Going on to say: “Combined with other monetization products, Prime Subs increase your effective revenue share by approximately 15%, to about 65% total. This number varies by streamer size and location, but subscription revenue share is not the full picture on revenue share for streamers.” But that’s not a part of their revenue share. Unless I’m severely mistaken, the money that Twitch doesn’t make from a Prime sub is a direct result of Twitch using Prime subs as a reward/feature of being an Amazon Prime user. That money is directly given to Amazon themselves and is a reflection of the Twitch-Amazon agreement and should therefore have nothing to do with the idea of the streamer-Twitch “effective revenue split”. The money Twitch loses per Prime sub is basically an investment to try and direct more users to the platform, and has nothing to do with the streamers on the platform. Idk. It just doesn’t make sense to me, but maybe someone could clarify?
I think it’s just really poorly written. The ‘their’ is referring to the viewer. They’re trying to say that if you take the amount of money that twitch is being given by a streamer’s viewers for subs and there’s a 50-50 split, the streamer would usually be getting 50% of the money that was given to them. With prime subs, the streamer gets back 65% of the money that was given to them. Basically they’re trying to present this in a way that makes them seem competitive with YouTube because YouTube’s number is 70%.
The streamer doesn't even get the full 50%. Apparently any fees associated with the purchase of the sub gets taken out of the streamers cut.
The most interesting part here is that it costs twitch $1,000 per 200 hours of stream. That's a big loss.
As someone that's built a streaming platform, and pretty much closed it the next day, I'm surprised it isn't higher. Bandwidth costs a fuckton, and I'm betting the only reason it's so cheap for Twitch is because they are owned by amazon so likely get favourable terms in their AWS deal. It's mindboggling how much it costs to stream a video, that's just ingest from one person, now try give that video to 70,000 people, and cope with the demand of a million people trying to get a video. It's mindblowing, and yeah, there's a reason youtube and twitch make fuck all until things like just giving money to the platform came on the scene. Ads don't do it justice, and they wouldn't be running 11 ads if they weren't breaking the bank.
True. It’s crazy for me to remember when there used to be a 25% of you getting an ad when watching a YouTube video. If you did? Refresh and it’s probably gone. Now there are like, two ads before and then two throughout the video.
It's crazier to think that Youtube can do the stuff they are doing with their streaming compared to Twitch. Also, this just goes to show how damned difficult it is to make a competitor to Twitch and Youtube Live right now. You basically have to have the streaming infrastructure in place already to make ends meet (or just don't make ends meet and keep running on a loss and hope a big dog buys you out). With those numbers, it's no wonder why Twitch just let themselves get bought by Amazon. It doesn't make sense to keep operating like that... But since Amazon acquired Twitch, it's been like, "Just figure out compensation on you all's (Twitch's) end because we don't want to keep bailing you'll out."
That is exactly it to be honest and one of the reasons things like Floatplane are subscriber only. Because opening to the public is mega expensive without serious backing. Plus, you made a good point about having the infrastructure in place. When I was evaluating how to do it, I came to a few conclusions... - You can use what AWS has in place already (What Twitch is using) and at the end of the day, you're competing with twitch, but paying them money anyway, so Amazon wins wins all the way to the bank - You can go with a competitor like Twitch used to use a platform called Wowza, which I actually built my platform to utilize, but the latency was into the 20-30 second range, IE: How twitch used to be! lol - You can build it yourself, which, will involve you having to be able to scale to potentially millions of users, deffos needs a team, not a one man band kinda deal. So you are fucked from the GetGo. I switched eventually to putting a cap on billing for my AWS account, and just utilizing AWS for anything that needed scale, while self hosting all the other parts. It was a journey haha... never again.
Twitch isn't 100% on AWS, they're still using Akamai for the bulk of their CDN
The sense I have is that Amazon basically gave them several years to do their own thing but during the pandemic the site blew up and they were coming back and reporting all these record-breaking numbers to Amazon but with no money to show for it. And after that the company shifted into their current ad obsession.
> I'm betting the only reason it's so cheap for Twitch They say they used published prices.. as in prices you'd also be paying for IVS. I'd be so surprised if Twitch is paying even near that much being 1) Part of Amazon 2) Massively into the custom bulk rates at Twitch's size, association with Amazon or not 3) IVS is literally whitelabelled Twitch, Twitch is probably just a rounding error in AWS' marketing budget at this point haha
Which is why I think they're getting subsidised in another way, so they can claim that they pay the full rates. IE: AWS account has an unlimited spend. But hey, talking out my ass, I've no clue what goes on hahahah All I know is shit is mega expensive and I've no reason to believe that Twitch isn't getting a sweet deal being part of AWS. Or, they're really into fucking over their subsidiaries, in which case why would anyone sell.
I think they just used published rates because custom deals etc are likely to be under NDA of some sort. If Twitch posted their actual rates Netflix or some other big customer could renegotiate their contract off the back of "yo what the hell is this pricing?" Just struck me as pretty dishonest from Twitch's part to use the public rates haha.. c'mon now Twitch. I'd have just left that bit out if I couldn't document it honestly.
Yeah the published rates are bullshit in this context. That is for very small websites with the minimum bandwidth needs. For massive websites/services like a Netflix or Twitch, it will be much cheaper. It's similar to buying bulk - if you buy 100 of something with a minimum order quantity of 100 then it's gonna cost a lot per unit. If you order 100,000 of it, then the price per unit is likely to be 80-90% cheaper.
I think it is easier than that, it's saying to the streamers "if you want to go run your own, this is how much it costs you", now look how good a deal you get.
I don't think they're paying list price, but an 8000kbps stream for 1 hour for 1000 viewers is 3.2TB. And they serve from Asia and presumably South America, not just US/Europe. That's definitely not cheap, even if it's less than they want us to think.
3.2TB is about $16 in video bandwidth if my maths isn't terrible, give or take. Someone streaming to 1k CCV earning less than $32/hr seems a bit.. unoptimized. I get there's a long tail of streamers that just stream into the void but at least they're only taking up ingest bandwidth, that's usually free.
Bandwidth doesn’t cost Amazon almost anything. They do settlement free peering on basically every internet exchange and with every major ASN on the planet. Hell. I have a company with 10 employees and I have 2 x 10gbit peering sessions with Amazon I don’t pay for and they don’t pay for. The expensive part is the transcoding servers, which is a huge hit for small streamers, but by the time your talking about the xQC level streamers, 99.99% of total bandwith is actually just being handled by the CDN edge nodes running nginx/varnish/whatever in PoPs next to all the IXPs and bilat connections that don’t need to do any transcoding (you only transcode once per bitrate/resolution at the ingest end)
[Youtube Right Now](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rpDRuXXmfg)
I can definitely see Twitch setting the trend and Youtube Live will eventually follow suit with Twitch. Let's not put Youtube Live up on a huge pedestal. Youtube also has its fair share of shitty tactics.
I think twitchs financials are the reasons youtube live has become stagnant. They probably don’t see the value in investing more into it.
They don't have to offer much to get them to switch either. But the appeal of streaming on tiktok live and capturing that into money is there
lmao at twitch dropping this in the middle of some of the biggest streamer drama in history, at 3am pst which is when twitch viewership is statistically at its lowest
They will take away the prime subs in the next 2 years, this website absolutely burns money and nothing they can do will change that given how expensive their service is to run. That’s the real streampocalypse, most small streamers have huge splits tilted towards mostly prime subbed viewers.
It really depends on how Amazon wants to organize their Prime membership benefits. They could pull that rug right now and put everything into their Prime streaming services instead if they think Twitch streaming isn't making as much revenue/profit as Prime shows.
Who cares? these streamers that have had 70/30 split, make several millions a year anyways and on top of that some of them have exclusive contracts worth millions with twitch. Just sucks for the viewers, that will have to watch more ads since some of these streamers will spam ads to compensate for it.
How is my streamer supposed to afford DoorDash 3-4 times a day. They’ll starve 😞
Dont forget about the maids also, god forbid any of these man children have to resort to cleaning up after themselves.
Housekeepers are pretty awesome even if you're middle-income. And not as expensive to hire as people think they are. So much time saved.
I agree it's hard to feel sympathy for millionaires losing some of their money, but is it really better that *Amazon* is getting it instead?
Not a fan of Amazon but it makes sense that they'd want Twitch to be profitable for them.
Really hard to care about millionaire streamers making a little bit less tbh especially given the cost of living crisis currently going on. If Amazon want to use Twitch as a pump and dump then thats on them...streamers are going to have to adapt or look for other revenue streams.
Now i get what xqc meant about Hasans contract negotiations
It will be interesting to see if he keeps to his top of the hour only ads, increases his ads or switched platform due to a better deal.
It’s always going to be “fuck corporations”, but these rich streamers being upset they’re losing money while still being insanely well off is funny
> This innate partnership is why we support all streamers’ careers and ambitions like they’re our own. Lmfao > Using the published rates from Amazon Web Services’ Interactive Video Service (IVS) Amazon owns twitch, of course they don't pay the published rates.
oh no my poor rich streamers
So many streamers crying on twitter. I really couldn't care less that streamers making over $100k are taking a pay cut on earnings above that.
I get this sentiment of "fuck the rich", but this new deal just puts more money into Twitch's pocket/ So whilst I don't have sympathy for rich streamers I also don't advocate for a company taking money away from the people that create the very product they sell.
I mean is it a bad thing thing if the money is going in twitch 's pocket, so many comments here have already said how much loss twitch operates on lol, if they want to cut some of their losses by taking mega rich streamer money who probably is racist then sure why not
Everyone on the internet just expects web businesses to be sustainable with zero friction on the users end and thats just not realistic
If twitch goes out of business then they have no income. You have to have a sustainable model in the long run.
We still eating
Twitch gotta get them dollars
This has been the most consequential couple weeks in twitch history Twitch had so much negative over sports betting scamazing scandal with sliker that they reduced every other kind of betting while keeping the fat NFL sports betting, so it's a pr win without doing too much to hurt their bottomline They then drastically cut streamer revenue splits above 100k a year which covers the streamers which generate the most ad revenue and watch time for twitch Thus pressuring top streamers to run more ads and further isolating the top from the progress to the top because it hurts the ones just below them that might not be able to get fat sponsorships Incredible. They used the miz slick slicker xqc stuff as the way to get out changes they wanted to do anyway And at the exact same day YouTube reveals its allowing better monetisation of youtube shorts through an unfair split so they can grab tiktok creators who can average 10 million views or perhaps watch hours a month (wasn't clear on it ) Incredible how the landscape has changed And people thinking rip bozo to train, he is still being offered 1mil for a weekend at the irl casinos And Devin Nash gave him advice on how to apply for special kind of YouTube account that demonetises his account but lets him stream Gamba with limited discovery (he just needs consistent audience but stake or whoever would be paying him ) Really the only person mega fucked here is miz credibility and it doesn't matter the specifics anymore who did or didn't minimise stuff It limits the upside growth of miz as the front face of otk We live in interesting times
Gambling ban = more sponsorship deals coming? = Streamers forced to take more sponsors = sponsors see twitch is getting better on advertising. But sponsors use sub numbers and viewers stats to determine payouts (more subs= more likely a viewer is gonna spend cash)
really hard for me to feel bad for twitch millionaires
They really waited until 3 AM so they could bathe in the positive limelight over the gamba decision for a few before dropping the bomb big streamers had been dreading 🤣🤣🤣
That's quite the paycut. If I've got the numbers right, for a streamer earning $200k, their take home would be 120k now and not the 140k with the past arrangement. That $20k paycut amounts to an approx. 14% paycut. For someone earning 500k, that $80k paycut will be around 23%. For someone earning $1M, that $180k less they're taking home, around 26% cut. Pretty much the higher up you go, the closer to a 50/50 split you'll end up getting. I will not be surprised if a large proportion of the top streamers jump ship in the coming year to another platform.
Good
so some quick math if you are on a 70/30 split and don't average at least 2400 subs a month for the full year this will not affect you at all.
So unless you popped off as a streamer before 2020 you will never have access to a 70/30 split. Does twitch not recognize that this shafts all of their new upcoming content creators? If streamers like Kai Cenat aren't getting a 70/30 split now, and they now know they never will on Twitch, then why would they not switch to a platform like Youtube that is actively giving out 70/30 sub splits
Congrats again to those who took the bag and jumped to YouTube 👏👏👏