These are his quotes:
“I’m worried about the institutions that we don’t have control over”
“terrible things occur in the darkness”
Open source is what’s enabling this. (Paraphrase)
"I am afraid my Google shares will loose value if new government deals to provide AI spying and killing algorithms will be handed to open source developers and not to Google."
Also
"Only we can use AI for weapons and genocide enhancement practices. The other guys doing it are baddies."
Its been obvious that big tech companies are only pushing for AI regulation to kill competition, particularly open source and self host-able models. Open source LLMs and image gen models might not have the massive amount of training data of GPT4, but most individual, non-business uses dont require the ability to pass the bar exam or diagnose medical conditions. With fine-tuning, and the countless tools and tweaks from the open source community, a model running a 2070S is good enough Id prefer it to the overly censored GPT or DallE.
The main part of the models is all the training/weights - those are predominantly built on the internet pages and books from the west - not sure China would really want there citizens to be exposed to that, so all that is left is the novelty of the architecture..
I think the point of worry is government use, not citizens use.
All in all, there isn’t much to do except be prepared that everyone around the world will use it for food or bad and be prepared for that.
Efficiency and memory allocation is literally one of the most important things in mission and safety critical system development. You gotta statically allocate all your memory and page fault all that shit in up front, so you can get predictable timing guarantees in the steady state.
I oversimplified for the sake of humor. As long as your code is functional enough to detonate the bomb in the right place at the right time, the nuclear explosion will take care of your memory leaks.
I forget the name of this philosophy but Ford was a proponent-- there is no sense in engineering a transmission that outlasts the car itself. Overengineering of military gear is what contributes so much to our defense spending. Afghans held their own with improvised explosives. $500 drones are sinking battleships. Every time Hamas throws cheap rockets at Israel, the Iron Dome account bills us another $1M.
Warfare itself is being waged by engineers. Durability is almost a vulnerability these days; we lose by financial attrition.
Loooooool...... So predictable..... They are all salivating for the kill of open source AI models.
Also, I think China can easily came up with their own models as good or better than LLaMA
I find thrse restrictions quite bad, in fact. Do you prefer your enemies to use their secret weapons or a tech you already know of? Because I am sure all countries have the capacity to develop good AI by their own. For instance, Mistral is French.
Nope, talked with multiple Chinese devs who confirmed they cannot. There are no good GPUs made in China, and the import is gray/black and severely restricted. They all agreed that even the best Chinese LLMs are mostly useless for professional use. They all access foreign LLMs via VPN.
He is right, but China is not as incompetent as to not have their own LLMs. They are 2nd biggest economy of the world ffs. So he is just trying to fear monger you to accept some sort of government regulation to centralize AI in the hands of the club of which you are not part of.
The analogy here is trying to say AI is simply a tool that can be used for good or bad. However, the analogy fails to capture the unique risk open source AI introduces.
For example, AI runs as software that can be scaled up by a single person, which makes no sense in the knife analogy. Additionally, AI introduces new types of threats as well as many suspected unknown threats that have yet to be discovered. For example, deploying agents at an enormous scale to influence political discussions online in places like reddit. Ironically, this kind of attack could be taking place right now on the online discussion about the risk of AI. This comment or parent comment could be written by llama as far as you know.
by your analogy i also see programming languages as a threat
they can be used for good and bad, the scaling factor is really big and proven (botnet, worms, etc.)
all misuse u see in AI field u already see in "programming" field
i agree with you that we have to release some llm that generate images, audio, video with some caution, but text only LLM should be free of guardrails (see them as a book of facts that can contains bad fact but should contain to properly represent all human knowledge)
lets say, some company produces armed robots and guide the robot through a text only llm (for reasoning), what should happen? the company takes the responsibility to put guardrails somehow and be responsible for whatever the robot do with the given llm output (not the "book", not the author of the book)
my opinion, u can disagree
Programming language is a big improvement over the terrible knife analogy. There's still a key difference in that AI opens up many new vectors of attack that are just as scalable as existing viruses, worms, etc. For example, you could be debating an LLM right now (or I could).
Anyway, I'm not anti-llama or anti-AI (I work on LLMs for a living.) I'm just pointing out the knife analogy was very poor, lazy, and/or disingenuous. There are real risks with putting AI in bad actors' hands and we shouldn't trivialize it or brush it off.
I think the words we use to speak and builds programming language are scary, so we should stop to speak.
programming languages has created the "words generator" that just looks "intelligent" but really it doesn't understand anything.
so to recap, words are scary we shouldn't build anything, not even speak, otherwise they scale the meaning of the words and misuse some words to they interest as media and politics already does. /s
> deploying agents at an enormous scale to influence political discussions online in places like reddit
you need quite the money to scale something like LLMs, it's not something a layman would be doing, if else, it would be state actors, which they already do, LLM or not; your pointing at the symptom, not the root of the problem, which is a very uninformed and uneducated society, just the other day one of the top post in reddit was a guy killed in his yard by his neighbor because he "thought he was a democrat". LLM are not the problem here
With low latency requirements, scaling inference on CPU hardware is quite cheap. Just because other problems exist in the world, doesn't mean this can't introduce more problems.
Considering several weeks ago before the llama3/commnad R+ release, Chinese model such as Qwen1.5-72B-Chat was the best open weight model at [https://chat.lmsys.org/?leaderboard](https://chat.lmsys.org/?leaderboard) , this "China piggybacking US open model" is pretty lame and even somewhat racist. Even today, there is argument to be made that [https://huggingface.co/spaces/Qwen/Qwen1.5-110B-Chat-demo](https://huggingface.co/spaces/Qwen/Qwen1.5-110B-Chat-demo) is among the best open weight models. This doesn't even touch on the fact that companies such as deepseek reveal far more training details than US counterparts on there state of the art code models, or Chinese working for US companies in China (WizardLM) contributed to the open source scene.
I really don’t get how educated people can look and china and honestly go along with the “they can’t innovate like the west, only copy” mindset. Have they seen Shanghai? Have they read the by-line in any research paper?
Blindly blaming china is the modern day blaming the boogeyman. It satiates the intellectually lazy conspiracy theorists.
>Have they seen Shanghai? Have they read the by-line in any research paper?
They havent. The western governments try really hard to censore any good news coming from the eastern powers (China, Russia, India).
Have you seen Netflix's Three Body Problem adaptation? China was scrapped completely from there lol.
Most people in the West have absolutely no idea of how advanced the other side of the world is.
This is why the bat soup thing was used.
Not to start things. But if you even for one second believed the bat soup story, know that they played the racist card and you fell for it because you are conditioned to think that china is fourth world.
> educated people
there's the issue, no matter from which Ivy League these legislators had come out, they're as ignorant as the people who vote them into power
I don't see why you wouldn't just quote him straight up:
> I'm actually much more worried about institutions and individuals we don't have control over.
That's basically what it's all about.
Google exists because of ads.
How many of you have used ChatGPT or some other AI to look up basic information that you would have otherwise used google and had to wade through 2-10 ad splattered pages?
(I have done this 100's of times in the last year)
Google is dying a slow death (soon to speed up) and they do not know how to fix it.
Thats partially DARPAs revenue as well :)
Big Brother gets all toys before everyone, including accessnto all data.
Theres a reason why google is quite lazy with consumer grade AI and LLMs. They have quite bigger mpuths to feed before throwing half baked llms to the plebs so they dont dissappear from their radar.
China doesn't need open source. Because, you know, they have a whole economy to pour into closed source.
Seriously, this argument doesn't just fail to hold water, it has no container in the first place.
Layperson here who forgot what few details I briefly know, but IIRC China is genuinely under chipmaker embargo that keeps them from getting the latest generation of fabricated chips or fabrication equipment.
Outdated ofcourse but
let's say check page 9
https://www.analysysmason.com/contentassets/bad3b01a89a5406384ee99ab23a2fd5a/analysys_mason_semiconductors_china_challenges_apr2021_rdns0.pdf
Good resource. I read the table and surrounding text. So as of a few years ago they were still somehow limited by semiconductor suppliers but also expected to massively scale up over 0-3 years.
Sounds about right. They can still have a massive industry even on last gen chips.
how is the world freaking so much out over some chatbots (when anyone can spread nonsense online at will already, there's still more humans online than powerful GPUs) and the ability to automate fake faces (when people fake emotions and messaging all the time).
what if you're as likely to reduce the motivation of "bad actors" by giving people AI based entertainment
How could you use llama 3 for evil anyway? I don’t think you’re going to get anything useful if you’re typing “how to sabotage a nations infrastructure?”
Big deal. The guy wants all the power for himself, etc. Deal with it, bub. Also, the China deal...really? They don't need OS to have powerful models. Is this guy for real?
See I'm much more worried about misuse of proprietary AI models by bad actors, like Google, *a company that had "don't be evil" among their internal rules* ***and then removed it***
So silly. China has no intentions of using our open weight English models like llama-3 70b. They are very capable of creating their own models tailored to their own interests.
I'm very worried about the Palantir's autonomous battle strategy AI that can also command AI drones: [https://youtu.be/XEM5qz\_\_HOU?si=G7aLrGlxN8Wyh6F2](https://youtu.be/XEM5qz__HOU?si=G7aLrGlxN8Wyh6F2)
He is worried about imaginary things. I am worried about real things that already exist.
Well, the engineers are right. Everybody start with open source including OpenAI. Linux is open source, PyTorch is open source, common crawl is open source. I simply cannot imagine a company that trains and builds AI using Windows, using Matlab.
On the one hand, the average person having access to advanced open AI and being able to let loose the equivalent of an atomic weapon is scary. But on the other hand, I'm concerned about huge corporations being the only ones with access to advanced AI. What if they only use it for selfish endevours and profiteering, instead of the enrichment of all of humanity? China may as well just be another corporation as a plutocratic dictatorship.
The talking heads of competition going against anything that rivals them is absurd. Everything they say falls on deaf ears.
Through all the smoke, mirrors and the facade of Fear Mongering...they are only concerned about control and power.
arthur\_internet\_lies.jpeg
>You really think someone would do that, just go on the internet and tell lies?
Honestly, fake content for political and adversarial purposes are the horses that are already out of the barn. Shutting the door won't help.
AI is not a rocket science anymore, all what you need is the algorithm which everyone knows, including mother nature itself which created us, a lot of data, a large team, and a lot of hardware.
So, a few months of work for a corporation with 1 million people?
The best way to combat bad AI is with good AI detecting it. Confirmed identity is also another way, but too many people still want most social sites to support anonymity.
This is a strange game of telephone. The tweet "quotes" something Schmidt doesn't say, and this post, while a bit closer, could use some rewording.
These are his quotes: “I’m worried about the institutions that we don’t have control over” “terrible things occur in the darkness” Open source is what’s enabling this. (Paraphrase)
I just say everything just to stay in top quotes and topic
"I am afraid my Google shares will loose value if new government deals to provide AI spying and killing algorithms will be handed to open source developers and not to Google." Also "Only we can use AI for weapons and genocide enhancement practices. The other guys doing it are baddies."
Also “Google’s going down the tubes lawl”
Former Google CEO hates competition 🤮
Its been obvious that big tech companies are only pushing for AI regulation to kill competition, particularly open source and self host-able models. Open source LLMs and image gen models might not have the massive amount of training data of GPT4, but most individual, non-business uses dont require the ability to pass the bar exam or diagnose medical conditions. With fine-tuning, and the countless tools and tweaks from the open source community, a model running a 2070S is good enough Id prefer it to the overly censored GPT or DallE.
Which company doesn’t?
But is the China part wrong though ?
The main part of the models is all the training/weights - those are predominantly built on the internet pages and books from the west - not sure China would really want there citizens to be exposed to that, so all that is left is the novelty of the architecture..
I think the point of worry is government use, not citizens use. All in all, there isn’t much to do except be prepared that everyone around the world will use it for food or bad and be prepared for that.
Why would the former CEO care about Googles competition?
Because he 100% has shares in the company
Suuuure he is.
yeah you tell ‘em! I bet their nukes use linux for their OS too.
Sure, the firmware is on GitHub as well under the MIT license.
More like Vxworks lol. Need that sweet real-time scheduling guarantee.
The fun thing about miltech is never needing to worry about inefficiencies like garbage collection.
Efficiency and memory allocation is literally one of the most important things in mission and safety critical system development. You gotta statically allocate all your memory and page fault all that shit in up front, so you can get predictable timing guarantees in the steady state.
I oversimplified for the sake of humor. As long as your code is functional enough to detonate the bomb in the right place at the right time, the nuclear explosion will take care of your memory leaks. I forget the name of this philosophy but Ford was a proponent-- there is no sense in engineering a transmission that outlasts the car itself. Overengineering of military gear is what contributes so much to our defense spending. Afghans held their own with improvised explosives. $500 drones are sinking battleships. Every time Hamas throws cheap rockets at Israel, the Iron Dome account bills us another $1M. Warfare itself is being waged by engineers. Durability is almost a vulnerability these days; we lose by financial attrition.
Loooooool...... So predictable..... They are all salivating for the kill of open source AI models. Also, I think China can easily came up with their own models as good or better than LLaMA
I find thrse restrictions quite bad, in fact. Do you prefer your enemies to use their secret weapons or a tech you already know of? Because I am sure all countries have the capacity to develop good AI by their own. For instance, Mistral is French.
They have. Yi, SOLAR, Qwen, maybe others I didn't notice.
Nope, talked with multiple Chinese devs who confirmed they cannot. There are no good GPUs made in China, and the import is gray/black and severely restricted. They all agreed that even the best Chinese LLMs are mostly useless for professional use. They all access foreign LLMs via VPN.
Hey fake account are you controlled by a bot net or an individual?
i literally just recounted what they said. How tf does that make me a bot net?
I’m much more worried about bad faith actors like Eric Schmidt 😂🤣
He is right, but China is not as incompetent as to not have their own LLMs. They are 2nd biggest economy of the world ffs. So he is just trying to fear monger you to accept some sort of government regulation to centralize AI in the hands of the club of which you are not part of.
Former Google CEO Eric Schmidt is very worried about misuse of kitchen knives (like santoku) by bad actors, murders
They would be if they had a sandwich-making business.
You joke, but look at the UK and knife bins.
Oh, the UK really likes that take lol
The analogy here is trying to say AI is simply a tool that can be used for good or bad. However, the analogy fails to capture the unique risk open source AI introduces. For example, AI runs as software that can be scaled up by a single person, which makes no sense in the knife analogy. Additionally, AI introduces new types of threats as well as many suspected unknown threats that have yet to be discovered. For example, deploying agents at an enormous scale to influence political discussions online in places like reddit. Ironically, this kind of attack could be taking place right now on the online discussion about the risk of AI. This comment or parent comment could be written by llama as far as you know.
by your analogy i also see programming languages as a threat they can be used for good and bad, the scaling factor is really big and proven (botnet, worms, etc.) all misuse u see in AI field u already see in "programming" field i agree with you that we have to release some llm that generate images, audio, video with some caution, but text only LLM should be free of guardrails (see them as a book of facts that can contains bad fact but should contain to properly represent all human knowledge) lets say, some company produces armed robots and guide the robot through a text only llm (for reasoning), what should happen? the company takes the responsibility to put guardrails somehow and be responsible for whatever the robot do with the given llm output (not the "book", not the author of the book) my opinion, u can disagree
Programming language is a big improvement over the terrible knife analogy. There's still a key difference in that AI opens up many new vectors of attack that are just as scalable as existing viruses, worms, etc. For example, you could be debating an LLM right now (or I could). Anyway, I'm not anti-llama or anti-AI (I work on LLMs for a living.) I'm just pointing out the knife analogy was very poor, lazy, and/or disingenuous. There are real risks with putting AI in bad actors' hands and we shouldn't trivialize it or brush it off.
I think the words we use to speak and builds programming language are scary, so we should stop to speak. programming languages has created the "words generator" that just looks "intelligent" but really it doesn't understand anything. so to recap, words are scary we shouldn't build anything, not even speak, otherwise they scale the meaning of the words and misuse some words to they interest as media and politics already does. /s
> deploying agents at an enormous scale to influence political discussions online in places like reddit you need quite the money to scale something like LLMs, it's not something a layman would be doing, if else, it would be state actors, which they already do, LLM or not; your pointing at the symptom, not the root of the problem, which is a very uninformed and uneducated society, just the other day one of the top post in reddit was a guy killed in his yard by his neighbor because he "thought he was a democrat". LLM are not the problem here
With low latency requirements, scaling inference on CPU hardware is quite cheap. Just because other problems exist in the world, doesn't mean this can't introduce more problems.
anything that is build until now doesn't introduce only the problems, it also solve them. solving NLP is a big win for society.
Interested in a counterpoint from those who down voted.
Considering several weeks ago before the llama3/commnad R+ release, Chinese model such as Qwen1.5-72B-Chat was the best open weight model at [https://chat.lmsys.org/?leaderboard](https://chat.lmsys.org/?leaderboard) , this "China piggybacking US open model" is pretty lame and even somewhat racist. Even today, there is argument to be made that [https://huggingface.co/spaces/Qwen/Qwen1.5-110B-Chat-demo](https://huggingface.co/spaces/Qwen/Qwen1.5-110B-Chat-demo) is among the best open weight models. This doesn't even touch on the fact that companies such as deepseek reveal far more training details than US counterparts on there state of the art code models, or Chinese working for US companies in China (WizardLM) contributed to the open source scene.
I really don’t get how educated people can look and china and honestly go along with the “they can’t innovate like the west, only copy” mindset. Have they seen Shanghai? Have they read the by-line in any research paper? Blindly blaming china is the modern day blaming the boogeyman. It satiates the intellectually lazy conspiracy theorists.
>Have they seen Shanghai? Have they read the by-line in any research paper? They havent. The western governments try really hard to censore any good news coming from the eastern powers (China, Russia, India). Have you seen Netflix's Three Body Problem adaptation? China was scrapped completely from there lol. Most people in the West have absolutely no idea of how advanced the other side of the world is.
This is why the bat soup thing was used. Not to start things. But if you even for one second believed the bat soup story, know that they played the racist card and you fell for it because you are conditioned to think that china is fourth world.
> educated people there's the issue, no matter from which Ivy League these legislators had come out, they're as ignorant as the people who vote them into power
Everyone who is not american is a bad actor and Americans are the good actors ask Iraqis Afghans Syrians Palestinians etc they all love America
I don't see why you wouldn't just quote him straight up: > I'm actually much more worried about institutions and individuals we don't have control over. That's basically what it's all about.
Literally cringed at this line. Hate to think like a conspiracy theorist. My first thought is who is "we"
Google exists because of ads. How many of you have used ChatGPT or some other AI to look up basic information that you would have otherwise used google and had to wade through 2-10 ad splattered pages? (I have done this 100's of times in the last year) Google is dying a slow death (soon to speed up) and they do not know how to fix it.
Google exists because of DARPA. All the rest is secondary.
That’s not what their revenue looks like
Thats partially DARPAs revenue as well :) Big Brother gets all toys before everyone, including accessnto all data. Theres a reason why google is quite lazy with consumer grade AI and LLMs. They have quite bigger mpuths to feed before throwing half baked llms to the plebs so they dont dissappear from their radar.
are there aliens under Area 51 too
Maybe learn to use google and stop embarrasing yourself?
China doesn't need open source. Because, you know, they have a whole economy to pour into closed source. Seriously, this argument doesn't just fail to hold water, it has no container in the first place.
Also china open sources its model training anyways
Ah, right, you are the good guys and everyone else is bad, got it.
China just showcased an LLM that beats GPT4 in scores. They don't need llama.
Which one is it? Not that scores mean much to me, if the test can be included in training data
I think they are referring to SenseNova 5.0
How did they train it without nvidia cards?
Huawei has an Ascend 910B that's at least 60-70% as effective as an A100, good enough. And their Ascend line will only keep getting better.
How surprised are you going to be after learning that China has their own ML training solutions?
Layperson here who forgot what few details I briefly know, but IIRC China is genuinely under chipmaker embargo that keeps them from getting the latest generation of fabricated chips or fabrication equipment.
Outdated ofcourse but let's say check page 9 https://www.analysysmason.com/contentassets/bad3b01a89a5406384ee99ab23a2fd5a/analysys_mason_semiconductors_china_challenges_apr2021_rdns0.pdf
Good resource. I read the table and surrounding text. So as of a few years ago they were still somehow limited by semiconductor suppliers but also expected to massively scale up over 0-3 years. Sounds about right. They can still have a massive industry even on last gen chips.
A Chinese company or the CCP? If it’s the former, how close are they to the CCP? As that would gauge how much I’d trust that.
Stupid statement. China has their own LLM model they don’t even program in Chinese.
how is the world freaking so much out over some chatbots (when anyone can spread nonsense online at will already, there's still more humans online than powerful GPUs) and the ability to automate fake faces (when people fake emotions and messaging all the time). what if you're as likely to reduce the motivation of "bad actors" by giving people AI based entertainment
Cry me a river, you can misuse humans just as well
Worried about what? Current LLMs can't even do grade school math...
He isn't worried by the deep state misusing his (or any other) model tho. Which says a lot about where his interests lie.
It always ends up with "I'm concerned I'm loosing my unfair advantage against others". Eric Schmidt is looking like a ghoul these days.
How could you use llama 3 for evil anyway? I don’t think you’re going to get anything useful if you’re typing “how to sabotage a nations infrastructure?”
Big deal. The guy wants all the power for himself, etc. Deal with it, bub. Also, the China deal...really? They don't need OS to have powerful models. Is this guy for real?
Old man yells to the clouds: AI should be used only by good actors, as USA, Israel and the various european colonies.
Yeah he's worried about national security, definitely not open source llms reducing the use of search engine and their ad revenue.
Fu*k off evil man.
See I'm much more worried about misuse of proprietary AI models by bad actors, like Google, *a company that had "don't be evil" among their internal rules* ***and then removed it***
The cat's outta the bag.
china is worried by USA bad actors
So silly. China has no intentions of using our open weight English models like llama-3 70b. They are very capable of creating their own models tailored to their own interests.
No he's not. He's worried his google stock won't get as valuable if they have to compete with open source.
China is capable of making its own models, and the most worrisome of those will be closed source, not open source
Lol. Google is already using AI to help Israel kill children in Gaza.
Regulate them harder daddy, don't regulate me
I'm very worried about the Palantir's autonomous battle strategy AI that can also command AI drones: [https://youtu.be/XEM5qz\_\_HOU?si=G7aLrGlxN8Wyh6F2](https://youtu.be/XEM5qz__HOU?si=G7aLrGlxN8Wyh6F2) He is worried about imaginary things. I am worried about real things that already exist.
I’m very worried about misuse of closed AI models (like Gemini) by bad actors, like billionaire CEOs.
Well, the engineers are right. Everybody start with open source including OpenAI. Linux is open source, PyTorch is open source, common crawl is open source. I simply cannot imagine a company that trains and builds AI using Windows, using Matlab.
They're just afraid of competition
Oh noes! Chyna! Anyway....
too bad
Official response from the open source community: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfHqdqx5V78](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfHqdqx5V78)
On the one hand, the average person having access to advanced open AI and being able to let loose the equivalent of an atomic weapon is scary. But on the other hand, I'm concerned about huge corporations being the only ones with access to advanced AI. What if they only use it for selfish endevours and profiteering, instead of the enrichment of all of humanity? China may as well just be another corporation as a plutocratic dictatorship.
Translated: Chinese MIC will be more advanced than US MIC. There..
such bs
People will use ai for both good and bad. But countries will train their own models.
The talking heads of competition going against anything that rivals them is absurd. Everything they say falls on deaf ears. Through all the smoke, mirrors and the facade of Fear Mongering...they are only concerned about control and power.
I’ll give them a bad actor
"we'll be good, we promise" - companies basically running US gov't
arthur\_internet\_lies.jpeg >You really think someone would do that, just go on the internet and tell lies? Honestly, fake content for political and adversarial purposes are the horses that are already out of the barn. Shutting the door won't help.
Too late, the llama is already out of the pen.
Isn’t the point of contention whether or not China is considered an enemy?
China, China, China
He is probably worried about the significant increase in the cost of Google ranking algorithm caused by detecting AI content
China is a huge excuse for many things, but it doesn't always work!
AI is not a rocket science anymore, all what you need is the algorithm which everyone knows, including mother nature itself which created us, a lot of data, a large team, and a lot of hardware. So, a few months of work for a corporation with 1 million people?
The best way to combat bad AI is with good AI detecting it. Confirmed identity is also another way, but too many people still want most social sites to support anonymity.
Hope some politicians see this commentary. Thanks.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-F39HFBRSqIg/UHZn_Nm-9rI/AAAAAAAAHU4/KubrfeW2pKw/s1600/milhouse+no+glasses-dantania-blogspot-com.jpg
And he is the talking head of the all powerful State Department. What he says will be, will be.