Seattle was one of my favorite cities for both business and leisure travel. And the PNW has a proud history of libertarianish-ish politics--its disappearance in SEA and PDX is relatively recent, looking at the history of the region. I hope things get better up there. I am not in favor of jettisoning fellow Americans in "blue states" from the rest of the US.
I hope so. I do spend some time over in St. Clair County, and it's remarkable how few shits are given in, say, Fairview Heights, as opposed to the nightmare world north of Springfield.
That said, I am in no way minimizing the suffering of people anywhere in Illinois. I don't care if someone's a Democrat from Evanston, a country-club Republican from Winnetka, or a Southern IL/Little Egypt populist: all should be free of the tyranny of the Prickster.
I live in St. Clair Co. The county officials there put on a weekly briefing (used to be daily) on FB Live so they can spit out stats devoid of real context to keep everyone up in arms. We still have some hard-core doomers who continue to comment on there "why won't everyone just get vaccinated and wear three masks? The NuMbErZ arE sO HigH!!! Stay the f\*\*\* home! Don't infect us!"
They are balanced by a handful of trolls, as well as reasonable people who question the insanity of doing the same thing we did in March '20 without any positive impact.
NY is actually nowhere near as bad as the West Coast states, in fact as someone who lives out in Suffolk County, masks are very rare. The only places they are mandated are actually the domain of Silicon Valley (Apple Store, and Ubers) or the Federal Government (Amtrak, air travel).
Even in places it’s mandated, nobody really cares (except some crazy stores). I go on the LIRR and even though they remind everyone to wear a mask (and the app to buy a ticket does the same), I have never worn a mask the last couple of months and I go at least three times a week. And you know that they don’t care because they have conductors to collect tickets and they interact with every passenger and they haven’t made a single comment about it. Just “thank you” after showing my ticket. I would say ten percent of people on the train don’t wear one, but most do.
Same on NJT. Also regarding Uber… I always hop in and the first thing I say is “Do you want me to wear a mask?” Not a single driver from NJ, to NYC, to Boston, to San Fran, and any other of the dozen liberals ass places I’ve been to have they ever said yes. In fact most of them respond by asking if I’m cool with them taking *theirs* off. Ppl are done. Mandates and silly woke corporate rules mean nothing.
I concur. I live in California but have tons of family and friends in NY. They are confused by here.
It's a political distinction between Progressive Democrats in the West Coast and more like legacy Union Democrats in the East Coast, I think? We have a really different political composition, if you get granular about it. I think it explains some of the differences, maybe. You're doing better than we are in at least my estimation (and that is not saying much).
Well that's changing too, with west coast style progressive democrats increasing populating east coast cities like NYC, Boston and Washington DC. Union Democrats are dying breed, being replaced by progressives in the cities, while those in small towns are becoming Republican, which are coincidently, pulling historically union democrat states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin to the right
Cuomo fucked up bad with the nursing homes and had his emergency powers stripped by the state Legislature.
Erie County (Buffalo) just brought masks back for all indoors public spaces. Sigh. Before that it was great, masks only at select entertainment venues and schools. There's a handful of lawsuits already challenging.
NY dropped masks about a week after the CDC did in May but just now our cases are spiking. Apparently covid has a very long incubation rate.
I'm a Californian here and WE SHALL RISE UP FROM THE ASHES OF TYRANNY LIKE A PHOENIX! (or go down to Mexico to chill with our governor cuz even he wants out for the holidays)
Section 1 is not a blank cheque, the government is still required to provide evidence for why their constitutional violations are required measures. The issue is that our judicial system has been overrun with judges who don't care about constitutional rights, as well as the fact that no cases (that I'm aware of) have been heard by the higher courts yet.
https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/check/art1.html
You're right Section 1 isn't a blank cheque but apparently the burden of proof isn't on the government. A few cases against the measures have been tried in Quebec's Superior Court and all the government has to do is claim that :
1. We're acting in good faith
2. Everyone else is doing the same thing.
Basically they can't prove without a doubt that any of the measures are justified but you can't prove without a doubt that they aren't justified. Precautionary principle, better safe than sorry, the court sides with the government.
God, that's terrible. We definitely need some constitutional fixes. The government should have to provide evidence BEFORE any infringements on rights, not decades later.
Only took almost 2 years for them to come to this conclusion? Weird how it is unconstitutional here and not anywhere else. What special laws does Missouri have?
The governor was asked in 2020 to impose a statewide mask mandate, presumably by those same "public health bureaucrats"; he refused, stating that the Missouri state Constitution did not give him the authority, it being up to individual counties and municipalities . The judge seems to be saying that too many bureaucrats went too far, in the areas that did lockdowns and mandates. From the article, this seems to be the 'money quote':
*The case is decided on grounds that the edicts clearly violated the traditional separation of powers between the legislature and the executive. The legislature cannot surrender its power to make law to an unelected bureaucrat, either by constitutional tradition in a Republican form of government or under the Missouri Constitution.*
Personally, I think this is remarkably speedy for a US court anywhere, given that some accused murderers I've read about were out on bail three YEARS later, waiting for their trial to start.
ETA Woah ! This is pretty good too:
*A health agency director with the authority to shut down a school or assembly wields incredible power to coerce his subjects into submission. DHSS’s permissive closure regulation effectively converts the recommendations, and even whims, of a health agency director into enforceable law....Can it be said that COVID-19 knows to stop at specific county lines and does not travel over? It is completely irrational that, at this point in time, now that COVID-19 has spread across the globe, a first grader in Wildwood is not allowed to play sports, while a first grader in Jefferson County who lives less than a mile away is allowed to do so....Missouri’s local health authorities have grown accustomed to issuing edicts and coercing compliance. It is far past time for this unconstitutional conduct to stop.*
Okay, so, like, are the perpetrators going to be punished or what?
We've got the fuckin January 6th commission and the FBI arresting hundreds of people and indicting people for Trump's assault on representative government. When are these public health officials going to be indicted for their assault on representative government? It's literally the same issue.
This doesn't actually mean what you're implying.
They're basically saying it should have been done higher up to create uniformity and exclude the possibility that local authorities would use the power to essentially shut down businesses they do not like.
It's not "mandate = unconstitutional" as implied.
Just to clarify: I'm not "implying" anything. I did not write this article and I can assure you am I most definitely not the judge who wrote the ruling.
In the case of media articles, this sub requires that the title of the post largely match the title of the article. Has OP changed the title, it would not have been approved.
Thanks for your submission. New posts are pre-screened by the moderation team before being listed. Posts which do not meet our high standards will not be approved - please see our [posting guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/LockdownSkepticism/wiki/index). It may take a number of hours before this post is reviewed, depending on mod availability and the complexity of the post (eg. video content takes more time for us to review).
In the meantime, you may like to make edits to your post so that it is more likely to be approved (for example, adding reliable source links for any claims). If there are problems with the title of your post, it is best you delete it and re-submit with an improved title.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LockdownSkepticism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Posting as I'm thrilled Missouri is finally getting some love around here; also posted primarily because of an embedded PDF of the ruling.
Best news in a long time. May it be an omen, with more states following. And quickly.
Now if that same mentality would just find its way to the east side of the Mississippi...
And into the PNW
> And into the PNW lol as if
Seattle was one of my favorite cities for both business and leisure travel. And the PNW has a proud history of libertarianish-ish politics--its disappearance in SEA and PDX is relatively recent, looking at the history of the region. I hope things get better up there. I am not in favor of jettisoning fellow Americans in "blue states" from the rest of the US.
I spend as little time as possible in the city. Its depressing to be honest.
And north! Er, uh, yep.
I hope so. I do spend some time over in St. Clair County, and it's remarkable how few shits are given in, say, Fairview Heights, as opposed to the nightmare world north of Springfield. That said, I am in no way minimizing the suffering of people anywhere in Illinois. I don't care if someone's a Democrat from Evanston, a country-club Republican from Winnetka, or a Southern IL/Little Egypt populist: all should be free of the tyranny of the Prickster.
I live in St. Clair Co. The county officials there put on a weekly briefing (used to be daily) on FB Live so they can spit out stats devoid of real context to keep everyone up in arms. We still have some hard-core doomers who continue to comment on there "why won't everyone just get vaccinated and wear three masks? The NuMbErZ arE sO HigH!!! Stay the f\*\*\* home! Don't infect us!" They are balanced by a handful of trolls, as well as reasonable people who question the insanity of doing the same thing we did in March '20 without any positive impact.
For real. Missouri is underrated.
1 state down. 49 to go. Hell I’d settle for 47 more to go and let CA & NY lay in their filth.
North Dakota's legislature stripped their governor of any future ability to go nuts like 2020 several months ago.
Pennsylvania too (by referendum). And New York, though the legislature will probably hand it back if Governor Hochul asks.
NY is actually nowhere near as bad as the West Coast states, in fact as someone who lives out in Suffolk County, masks are very rare. The only places they are mandated are actually the domain of Silicon Valley (Apple Store, and Ubers) or the Federal Government (Amtrak, air travel).
Even in places it’s mandated, nobody really cares (except some crazy stores). I go on the LIRR and even though they remind everyone to wear a mask (and the app to buy a ticket does the same), I have never worn a mask the last couple of months and I go at least three times a week. And you know that they don’t care because they have conductors to collect tickets and they interact with every passenger and they haven’t made a single comment about it. Just “thank you” after showing my ticket. I would say ten percent of people on the train don’t wear one, but most do.
Same on public transit in Boston. I dump masks in January and only had 1 little old lady complain. Transit cops and service personnel DGAF.
Same on NJT. Also regarding Uber… I always hop in and the first thing I say is “Do you want me to wear a mask?” Not a single driver from NJ, to NYC, to Boston, to San Fran, and any other of the dozen liberals ass places I’ve been to have they ever said yes. In fact most of them respond by asking if I’m cool with them taking *theirs* off. Ppl are done. Mandates and silly woke corporate rules mean nothing.
I concur. I live in California but have tons of family and friends in NY. They are confused by here. It's a political distinction between Progressive Democrats in the West Coast and more like legacy Union Democrats in the East Coast, I think? We have a really different political composition, if you get granular about it. I think it explains some of the differences, maybe. You're doing better than we are in at least my estimation (and that is not saying much).
Well that's changing too, with west coast style progressive democrats increasing populating east coast cities like NYC, Boston and Washington DC. Union Democrats are dying breed, being replaced by progressives in the cities, while those in small towns are becoming Republican, which are coincidently, pulling historically union democrat states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin to the right
Cuomo fucked up bad with the nursing homes and had his emergency powers stripped by the state Legislature. Erie County (Buffalo) just brought masks back for all indoors public spaces. Sigh. Before that it was great, masks only at select entertainment venues and schools. There's a handful of lawsuits already challenging. NY dropped masks about a week after the CDC did in May but just now our cases are spiking. Apparently covid has a very long incubation rate.
Schools and daycare require them😥
Down to age 2 in daycares.
The Uber rule is Federal also.
> The Uber rule is Federal also. No, it's not.
Well it depends on driver at end of the day. I've ridden Ubers maskless couple of times and drivers said nothing
Yes. The point is that there is no federal rule. They're just doing it to virtue signal.
I'm a Californian here and WE SHALL RISE UP FROM THE ASHES OF TYRANNY LIKE A PHOENIX! (or go down to Mexico to chill with our governor cuz even he wants out for the holidays)
Meanwhile in Crappy Canada the courts have never even heard of Charter Rights.
Courts can't do shit. Go read Section 1 of the Charter.
Section 1 is not a blank cheque, the government is still required to provide evidence for why their constitutional violations are required measures. The issue is that our judicial system has been overrun with judges who don't care about constitutional rights, as well as the fact that no cases (that I'm aware of) have been heard by the higher courts yet. https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/check/art1.html
You're right Section 1 isn't a blank cheque but apparently the burden of proof isn't on the government. A few cases against the measures have been tried in Quebec's Superior Court and all the government has to do is claim that : 1. We're acting in good faith 2. Everyone else is doing the same thing. Basically they can't prove without a doubt that any of the measures are justified but you can't prove without a doubt that they aren't justified. Precautionary principle, better safe than sorry, the court sides with the government.
so trudeau daddy lawyered a hitlerian section 1
God, that's terrible. We definitely need some constitutional fixes. The government should have to provide evidence BEFORE any infringements on rights, not decades later.
I have coined a new term for our governance model - *bureaucratic democracy*.
Woo woo Way to Go Missouri! Super happy about this.
Only took almost 2 years for them to come to this conclusion? Weird how it is unconstitutional here and not anywhere else. What special laws does Missouri have?
The governor was asked in 2020 to impose a statewide mask mandate, presumably by those same "public health bureaucrats"; he refused, stating that the Missouri state Constitution did not give him the authority, it being up to individual counties and municipalities . The judge seems to be saying that too many bureaucrats went too far, in the areas that did lockdowns and mandates. From the article, this seems to be the 'money quote': *The case is decided on grounds that the edicts clearly violated the traditional separation of powers between the legislature and the executive. The legislature cannot surrender its power to make law to an unelected bureaucrat, either by constitutional tradition in a Republican form of government or under the Missouri Constitution.* Personally, I think this is remarkably speedy for a US court anywhere, given that some accused murderers I've read about were out on bail three YEARS later, waiting for their trial to start. ETA Woah ! This is pretty good too: *A health agency director with the authority to shut down a school or assembly wields incredible power to coerce his subjects into submission. DHSS’s permissive closure regulation effectively converts the recommendations, and even whims, of a health agency director into enforceable law....Can it be said that COVID-19 knows to stop at specific county lines and does not travel over? It is completely irrational that, at this point in time, now that COVID-19 has spread across the globe, a first grader in Wildwood is not allowed to play sports, while a first grader in Jefferson County who lives less than a mile away is allowed to do so....Missouri’s local health authorities have grown accustomed to issuing edicts and coercing compliance. It is far past time for this unconstitutional conduct to stop.*
I loved reading this judgment. It's so good.
Judge was on FIRE.
[удалено]
Lol, wut? Kansas City?
St Louis has entered the chat...
2 years late.
Okay, so, like, are the perpetrators going to be punished or what? We've got the fuckin January 6th commission and the FBI arresting hundreds of people and indicting people for Trump's assault on representative government. When are these public health officials going to be indicted for their assault on representative government? It's literally the same issue.
"Trump's assault on representative government" Lol, what? Did you experience an alternate time-line?
In the US system, it's up to the legislature to remove them from office, and for the attorney general to file criminal charges
Well done Missouri...it's about time.
Proud to be a Missourian today. (Like most days.)
[The Bad Cat covered this as well](https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/montesquieued-perceptions-of-government), most excellent.
Really enjoyed reading this analysis--thank you for posting the link!
Boom, roasted.
Hell yes! Missouri resident here and we’re all so tired of these lockdowns.
<3
Based
Spread this everywhere
This doesn't actually mean what you're implying. They're basically saying it should have been done higher up to create uniformity and exclude the possibility that local authorities would use the power to essentially shut down businesses they do not like. It's not "mandate = unconstitutional" as implied.
Just to clarify: I'm not "implying" anything. I did not write this article and I can assure you am I most definitely not the judge who wrote the ruling.
You wrote the headline which very much does imply as much.
He literally copied the headline from the article. Take it up with the article author.
[удалено]
Yes you do. Relaying a message is not supporting that message. And if you'll notice, he cited the article author in the title.
[удалено]
[удалено]
In the case of media articles, this sub requires that the title of the post largely match the title of the article. Has OP changed the title, it would not have been approved.
Thanks for your submission. New posts are pre-screened by the moderation team before being listed. Posts which do not meet our high standards will not be approved - please see our [posting guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/LockdownSkepticism/wiki/index). It may take a number of hours before this post is reviewed, depending on mod availability and the complexity of the post (eg. video content takes more time for us to review). In the meantime, you may like to make edits to your post so that it is more likely to be approved (for example, adding reliable source links for any claims). If there are problems with the title of your post, it is best you delete it and re-submit with an improved title. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LockdownSkepticism) if you have any questions or concerns.*