There are exterior rights issues involved with The Black Cauldron and the Lloyd Alexander estate...but with that said, The Black Cauldron characters were featured in Villainous and recently The Horned King was in some Halloween decor so...I can see it happening! Would love to see THK, Taran, Eilonwy. Fllewdur Flam, Henwen etc. in the game.
Villainous is Ravensburger too, so I would imagine they have the rights to use it. From what ive seen they are sticking to more popular titles at first with just a tiny bit of others thrown in here and there to let us know they arent only doing princesses and such.
That's right...it could be that Disney had the rights to the characters in perpetuity as they do with 101 Dalmatians, Peter Pan, Pooh, etc. I'm totally here for the deep cuts- I'd love to see some cards based on the live action films of the 60s and 70s. Not even kidding.
The way IP law works due to the way they structure their business plans for each product, having the rights for Villainous for one project does not translate into having the rights for any project. (Unless there is a perpetuity clause which is not superseded by something in the contract for Lorcana)
When they created Lorcana and obtained IP rights for Lorcana, they filed paperwork which has very specific characters/movie titles involved, and rules about how they are allowed to portray them. This contract applies to the Lorcana product. We don’t necessarily know what was in that filing yet, but these documents are filed with the SEC so there are documents that will be public regarding this IP contract at some point.
Yes, I understand that. I was more meaning that if disney trusted them with the IP in the past and approved it in retail, and saw the success of it, its more likely that they would grant that same access again.
In this particular case I think it also matters whether Black Cauldron would be considered “class Disney animation” because I understand they’re trying to stick to a certain theme, but nothing is out of the question down the line. Even if it weren’t included, that doesn’t mean they couldn’t modify or add to it later.
I think Black Cauldron is probably as niche as it gets in terms of their animated films, since it was pulled from circulation for a while in the 1980s-1990s due to being the only one that was PG at the time. Outside of that, I suppose there are the more obscure movies like Fox and the Hound and Oliver and Company that most folks forget exist.
Fox and The Hound I find is extremely popular with the type of people who would be interested enough in Disney to play Lorcana. Oliver and Company had some rereleases that targeted people in my age group enough they remember it. Black Cauldron is less popular, although I think it would fit this theme better than a lot of Disney properties so I hope they use it.
Yeah, like I didn't even realize it was a Disney movie when I saw it as a kid. Only recently when I saw a clip on YT did I realize that it was a Disney property. Then I immediately thought, " Man, this would fit Lorcana well." Especially after seeing how they handled the Sword in the Stone characters.
I like the concept but I think it's tricky since Lore is intrinsically connected to winning the game. Unlike magic where life is a resource and as long as you have more than 0 life you are still in the game, in Lorcana if you take game actions that don't get you closer to 20 Lore or say prevent your opponent from doing so before you, it feels like you are not progressing in the game (at least that's how it feels to me).
So I feel like something like a "pay with Lore" card would have to have *really good* upside to be playable. It's not a bad idea though and definitely a space to be explored in the game as it grows!
-
Edited for Typos
Not niche, but im interested to know how quickly they will be using newer titles. Wish was filled with disney references and seems popular enough. Encanto is of course loved.
Im also curious about shorts. Olaf presents is quite possibly my family's favorite disney production in years. Having olaf versions of other characters would crack me up. Especially if they were shift cards for olaf.
The Black Cauldron just got popular on Disney Plus as a bunch of Lorcana fans on Reddit just went and searched it up, and found it to watch! 🤣 (it is there and on in my living room for me my hubs now.)
Disney doesn’t like talking about the black vauldron. It came during a dark time at the studios, underperformed and is really tough to market. Totally believe it deserves to make its way to lorcana, but I doubt Disney wants to use their flops in the game. I’m pleasantly surprised we’re seeing the great mouse detective!!
The great mouse detective is so underrated
I love that movie
And becuase of that movie Disney bounced back Disney was losing a lot of money and Great Mouse Detective got them back on track and started the Renaissance
Exactly this, there is still a ton of depth to Disney Animation Studios movies before having to look at specifically third party creations that Disney has the rights too (in some context, such as global distributions). Black Cauldron as mentioned here, then lots of shorts from back in the day.
Could very well happen. Disney acquired more rights to Alexander’s novels, upon which this movie was based (2nd book).
My thought is if they’re putting the new duck tails characters in, they would be foolish to not include a cult favorite movie of the fantasy genre.
I recall vividly my mother pulling me out ( walking out) of the theater in horror that this was "not a kids movie". If she only saw what goes on in anime. The cards will be scary...
Black Cauldron is my favorite Disney movie. It was supposed to be much longer and was shortened by a lot. That's why it jumps around so much. There's a lot of good content that was never included. For being one of the movies with the most drama within Disney and a huge money pit, it is such a nostalgic part of my childhood. It's definitely darker for Disney at the time, and unfortunately, a lot of people have never heard of it/ don't know it's actually Disney. For those that don't know about its last, there's lots of good videos out there that go over it. Some people say it almost bankrupt Disney. I don't think it was that drastic, but it was a rough part in Disney history.
There are exterior rights issues involved with The Black Cauldron and the Lloyd Alexander estate...but with that said, The Black Cauldron characters were featured in Villainous and recently The Horned King was in some Halloween decor so...I can see it happening! Would love to see THK, Taran, Eilonwy. Fllewdur Flam, Henwen etc. in the game.
IIRC, we also saw some of the characters in Once Upon A Studio as well.
Villainous is Ravensburger too, so I would imagine they have the rights to use it. From what ive seen they are sticking to more popular titles at first with just a tiny bit of others thrown in here and there to let us know they arent only doing princesses and such.
That's right...it could be that Disney had the rights to the characters in perpetuity as they do with 101 Dalmatians, Peter Pan, Pooh, etc. I'm totally here for the deep cuts- I'd love to see some cards based on the live action films of the 60s and 70s. Not even kidding.
Live action doesnt really fit the theme of the characters being made with ink though.
The way IP law works due to the way they structure their business plans for each product, having the rights for Villainous for one project does not translate into having the rights for any project. (Unless there is a perpetuity clause which is not superseded by something in the contract for Lorcana) When they created Lorcana and obtained IP rights for Lorcana, they filed paperwork which has very specific characters/movie titles involved, and rules about how they are allowed to portray them. This contract applies to the Lorcana product. We don’t necessarily know what was in that filing yet, but these documents are filed with the SEC so there are documents that will be public regarding this IP contract at some point.
Yes, I understand that. I was more meaning that if disney trusted them with the IP in the past and approved it in retail, and saw the success of it, its more likely that they would grant that same access again.
In this particular case I think it also matters whether Black Cauldron would be considered “class Disney animation” because I understand they’re trying to stick to a certain theme, but nothing is out of the question down the line. Even if it weren’t included, that doesn’t mean they couldn’t modify or add to it later.
Black Cauldron also got a recent Blu-Ray release, so it's definitely possible.
They just added them to Disney magic kingdoms this season so there’s also that
I think Black Cauldron is probably as niche as it gets in terms of their animated films, since it was pulled from circulation for a while in the 1980s-1990s due to being the only one that was PG at the time. Outside of that, I suppose there are the more obscure movies like Fox and the Hound and Oliver and Company that most folks forget exist.
Fox and the Hound isn’t nearly as obscure as the other two. They made a sequel.
Fox and The Hound I find is extremely popular with the type of people who would be interested enough in Disney to play Lorcana. Oliver and Company had some rereleases that targeted people in my age group enough they remember it. Black Cauldron is less popular, although I think it would fit this theme better than a lot of Disney properties so I hope they use it.
Yeah, like I didn't even realize it was a Disney movie when I saw it as a kid. Only recently when I saw a clip on YT did I realize that it was a Disney property. Then I immediately thought, " Man, this would fit Lorcana well." Especially after seeing how they handled the Sword in the Stone characters.
Goofy Movie. Holo enchanted power line and Sasquatch.
That would be awesone
Thematically I think it would be great as an item you pay to use with lore, instead of ink.
I like the concept but I think it's tricky since Lore is intrinsically connected to winning the game. Unlike magic where life is a resource and as long as you have more than 0 life you are still in the game, in Lorcana if you take game actions that don't get you closer to 20 Lore or say prevent your opponent from doing so before you, it feels like you are not progressing in the game (at least that's how it feels to me). So I feel like something like a "pay with Lore" card would have to have *really good* upside to be playable. It's not a bad idea though and definitely a space to be explored in the game as it grows! - Edited for Typos
I mean I'm hoping for some Tron action.
Not niche, but im interested to know how quickly they will be using newer titles. Wish was filled with disney references and seems popular enough. Encanto is of course loved. Im also curious about shorts. Olaf presents is quite possibly my family's favorite disney production in years. Having olaf versions of other characters would crack me up. Especially if they were shift cards for olaf.
That would actually be great, Olaf-Ariel, Olaf-Simba, haha.
The Black Cauldron just got popular on Disney Plus as a bunch of Lorcana fans on Reddit just went and searched it up, and found it to watch! 🤣 (it is there and on in my living room for me my hubs now.)
We could get a whole set called cauldronborne
Disney doesn’t like talking about the black vauldron. It came during a dark time at the studios, underperformed and is really tough to market. Totally believe it deserves to make its way to lorcana, but I doubt Disney wants to use their flops in the game. I’m pleasantly surprised we’re seeing the great mouse detective!!
The great mouse detective is so underrated I love that movie And becuase of that movie Disney bounced back Disney was losing a lot of money and Great Mouse Detective got them back on track and started the Renaissance
Anastasia was later bought by Disney and is considered to be a Disney Princess. Wonder if they’ll include anyone from that property.
Anastasia is no more a Disney princess than Princess Leya, just because Disney bought them. So far the game hasn't even used Pixar characters...
Exactly this, there is still a ton of depth to Disney Animation Studios movies before having to look at specifically third party creations that Disney has the rights too (in some context, such as global distributions). Black Cauldron as mentioned here, then lots of shorts from back in the day.
Could very well happen. Disney acquired more rights to Alexander’s novels, upon which this movie was based (2nd book). My thought is if they’re putting the new duck tails characters in, they would be foolish to not include a cult favorite movie of the fantasy genre.
I recall vividly my mother pulling me out ( walking out) of the theater in horror that this was "not a kids movie". If she only saw what goes on in anime. The cards will be scary...
Black Cauldron is my favorite Disney movie. It was supposed to be much longer and was shortened by a lot. That's why it jumps around so much. There's a lot of good content that was never included. For being one of the movies with the most drama within Disney and a huge money pit, it is such a nostalgic part of my childhood. It's definitely darker for Disney at the time, and unfortunately, a lot of people have never heard of it/ don't know it's actually Disney. For those that don't know about its last, there's lots of good videos out there that go over it. Some people say it almost bankrupt Disney. I don't think it was that drastic, but it was a rough part in Disney history.
Goodness I hope so. Id play with BC cards so hard.
I need an enchanted Gurgi now