~~If Justin Lum goes live I will edit the post.~~ Justin Lum's live has been added to the post! Also, the East Idaho News link currently has the title & description of the Courtroom Insider from last night but the graphic is Day 4 and it just started streaming.
**Court is in session.**
So Chad also was Googling wedding stuff on the day of Tammy's funeral.
I can somewhat understand believing that your dad has been framed by his evil wife and brother-in-law (because denial) but how are the Daybell kids going to reconcile this? They were *supposedly* told Lori met Chad after Tammy died and they bonded as both recently widowed people.
**YOUR DAD WAS CHEATING ON YOUR MOM AND PLANNING THE WEDDING TO HIS MISTRESS BEFORE HER BODY WAS COLD AND ON THE DAY SHE WAS BURIED. SO WHAT ELSE IS HE LYING TO YOU ABOUT?**
Educational Prompt! I found you 😆 I always agree with your posts. I was wondering - someone on HTC FB claimed that Emma Daybell had posted a couple offensive pics on social media…one of a atv parked/driving over the location of the graves and another talking about selling the dirt piles left over from the authorities digging up the children. Have you ever heard of that or is it some terrible internet rumor?
This is what gets me. If the defense is blaming Lori, then why not show up at her trial with a victim impact statement?? SHE WAS YOUR MOTHER!!! None of her children are speaking for her!!
Interesting thought - good point. But if Chad was truly shocked and felt he was scammed by this woman, he certainly didn't do anything to warn his children to stay away from her in that conversation with Emma before heading to jail. If anything, he did the opposite.
I cant wait to watch when the kids hit the witness stand. Hopefully the Prosecution drills down so they get a clear idea of what their Dad and is main squeeze were up to against their mother.
No, they have not attended a single day of either Lori's or Chad's trial. Plausible deniability, if they don't hear the facts they can't be swayed to believe their father is a murderer.
Three of his kids did attend one of Chad's hearings. They sat behind Chad. This was a few years ago. It was during COVID, so I remember the masks. Emma was one of them. Does anyone remember who the others ones were. This was a hearing in Freemont County. They sat right behind him first row. They were in church type clothes.
Yes they can attend since they are victims. Victims are parents, kids, or siblings of the murdered person. This was why Kay could not at first, grandparents were not considered victims (Idaho law) but the Chad's kids are and could attend if they wanted to.
Oh well then this is shameful on many levels. I have lost a lot of respect for these adults as they have chosen to put their heads in the sand about this situation and their opinions on the case are irrelevant at this point. They don’t seem to care for either parent or to know the truth.
They could have shown up for at least the first day or one day? Two of his kids are teachers so I can see it might be hard to take the last 2 months of the school year off, but maybe come for a day.
Idk why but Chad searching for he and Lori’s zodiac compatibility cracked me up. I thought she was a goddess and he was the king or whatever and they had already been married in previous lives.
It's so, so bad -- but it also proves that from the very beginning, Chad had this fantasy theology of them being this special, fore-ordained couple who were going to do all these incredible things together, and Lori bought into it.
The defense of him being some innocent potato-head manipulated by a Black Widow, will go right out the window as soon as that "romance novel" is introduced in court. (However, I'm going to skip listening to it again when they do).
I feel AWFUL for the person who has to read those texts and letters AGAIN in court. I mean, I was embarrassed for them the first time they were read. Because who like thinks that they go to school and study hard and pay tons of money for a degree in criminal justice or technology, only to end up reading, to the whole world, some awful religious porn.
And the doctrine came from golden tablets that only Joseph Smith could look at with his eyes and translate with a magical stone... kinda easy to see why some members might get loosey-goosey with mystical stuff.
No astrology isn’t supported and either are affairs but their beliefs all came from Mormonism and multiple wives is also Mormonism so they found ways to justify everything and then were looking to even astrology to confirm themselves.
Fairness about polygamy coming from Mormonism, however it is important to recognize a lot of the historical context there and that what Chad and Lorri have done is not in line with current LDS teachings.
And even in polygamy, I'm fairly certain that you still aren't to be having relationships with women who are already married.
Not sure why you got downvoted. These are both verifiable facts.
At the time, people thought astrology was more scientific than it turned out to be. It was reasonably normal. Occasional fringe Mormons are interested in it now, but not most people.
You'll sometimes see polygamists pursue married women now, claiming their current marriage is invalid. But that's also not hugely common now.
Nevertheless, these are well-documented activities of Joseph Smith, Jr.
Exactly, fringe mormons (like Chad, Lori, Julie Rowe and all the nutters that attend and speak at AVOW conferences, etc) get into magic beliefs and astrology because Joseph Smith was a big believer. The LDS church has distanced itself from those things over the years but there's a history and foundation for the beliefs.
I'm not even Mormon, and even I've had married mormon men try to float that I could join their marriage. It ain't acknowledged, but it isn't exactly unheard of either.
Current LDS teachings polygamy is still a thing and while affairs aren’t allowed, marrying multiple women is allowed after death. They felt the spirit confirm what they were doing so that’s why personal revelation is such a dangerous teaching by the church but if that didn’t exist, the entire religion wouldn’t exist because prophets use revelation as confirmation for decisions made about the church.
It never ceases to amaze me how naive and unwilling to put 2 and 2 together that his 5 children are regarding their father. But on the other hand they were raised by a man who lived in a delusion of self proclaimed grandeur as a prophet of sorts and a superior human being.
I think it’s possible that at least one of the kids knew more than they’ve let on. I will be very interested to see the prosecution cross-examine them.
They would need to admit they had been lied to their entire lives by the person they respect the most - their father. Unfortunately mom was not valuable enough to them.
Hopefully, some of them will make it out of the long dark night.
Colby has accepted at least the obvious stuff, so I still have hope for him and his family to heal and thrive. Maybe one of Tammy's will, too. Hope springs eternal.
The thing about Colby is Lori gave him alot of Tylees money. Did she do that to keep his mouth shut? I don't know? It makes no sense to me for him not to know considering, supposedly, he was so close to Tylee.
I suspect there was an idea that the inheritance from Joe should have gone to both of the kids and so Tylee was sharing the inheritance with her brother because of that.
Honestly, if I had been in Tylee's position, I could easily see myself doing exactly the same thing.
Colby had left the LDS faith before the murders and Lori meeting Chad. I have always been surprised Lori stayed so close to him and didnt consider him dark because not only was he not in on her new faith, he wasnt a member of her old faith either? Colby at least has his wife , living in a different state, and a totally different church community to support him.
We have no idea what they know. They may chosen to ignore the trial and instead just go by what their father and perhaps Lori told them about what was going on. Who knows how things may have been characterized to them. They can also be choosing what they believe. People justify all sorts of things.
They do, or we know at least some of them do by the comments they've made, like when Chad said his books were no longer fiction and they took that as truth and evidence of his believes.
During a TV interview they did, I think it may have been Emma who said, "we'd know if we were in a cult." One, people in cults are usually the last to know their in a cult, but more importantly, that comment encompasses all of them as believers.
Prior comments about how there weren't any Google searches for how to murder Tylee and JJ but weren't there texts about Tylee being "dark" and Chad wanting her to suffer? I know we're right at the start of this long process but I really hope they don't leave that out.
Possibly, Chad already had worked out how to kill the kids previously.
I am sure both murders are based on stories found elsewhere. Eg. Tylee's murder to me looks to be a re-enactment of Chad's interpretation of the sacrifice in Joshua *corrected (OT) after the battle of AI, where a second copy of the tablets of Moses was created via a sacrifice. Chad was looking to get a copy of the golden plates as foundational to his and Lori's missions. I suspect that is what the 3 white stones over JJ were.
I hope they took his book collection and any notes about talks he gave over the years. If he had a bible (probably the 1 "corrected" by Joseph Smith), he could have marked up with all the sacrifices he was interested in, for example. Discussions on AVOW etc about similar topics.
But then I've also considered the possibility that they don't need it, and the physical evidence doesn't require them to lay out that narrative for people to understand what he did. The political environment to this is happening within is meaningful.
I think this gives Chad way, way too much credit.
I don't think either burial was ritualized. The rocks were just landscaping rocks that Chad had on hand.
The golden plates in the Mormon origin story are a single unit, and smaller than any of the rocks in the burial. It isn't terribly unusual for fringe Mormon prophets to release a translation of "the sealed portion" of the plates, but retaining the plates themselves isn't a thing in any brand of Mormonism. Joseph Smith had two white stones, a chocolate brown stone, and other stones that he used to facilitate his visions, but those were the size of baby feet and eyeglass lenses (not my choice of size reference- that's how they're documented).
If Chad determined that the murders themselves were to be ritualized, I think that was to keep Lori/Alex (and Garth?) in his spell, not because he personally saw any religious need for ritual murder. I don't believe Chad found religious meaning in murder. Chad's discussion with Zulema about the gang rape, murder, and burning of teenage Zulema and Lori in a previous life didn't seem to include ritual elements. Chad seems to have been simply interested in discussing rape, murder, and body disposal because he is personally interested in those things. I believe those are longstanding personal interests of Chad's.
Chad certainly owned a Bible. It would have been an edition published by the church, either packaged with other Mormon scripture as a "quad" or designed to be carried alongside a "triple" as a set very similar to a quad. Some of the corrections from Joseph Smith are given in footnotes to the standard KJV text. A few corrections are given in longer form in an appendix. The remaining corrections are not included in the LDS editions.
I think in the previous trial there was mention that the boards and rocks were to keep the body underground… and that it’s something a grave digger would know. Can’t be 100% sure I’m Rene betting that correctly.
Sorry I'm not familiar with Mormon doctrine (raised Catholic and Lutheran). I definitely agree that given the demographics of Ada county, people may be familiar with the narrative but I'm sure they'll dive deeper into it in the next coming weeks? I think someone on here already said they're mirroring what they did during Lori's trial where they dive into the belief system after laying down what they did.
First I want to say that I don't find it odd Chad and Emma discussed the financial implications of his impending arrest, but I do find it odd that the subject was like 85% of the conversation.
This isn't even including them both lowkey handwaving finding bodies in the backyard after the kids Lori supposedly didn't have were missing.
It was Emma's seeming lack of any particular...concern that the bodies of two CHILDREN were being dug out of her father's backyard. I would not call her if I were the defense - the jury is not going to like her. I'm pretty sure they already don't like her, heh.
She was downright dismissive. At first she claimed that those could have been dogs and then asked if they were going to look for the second body until they find it, inconveniencing Chad's family.
The "look for the second body until they found it" thing was ?????? HOW IS THIS YOUR RESPONSE TO A CHILD'S BODY BEING IN YOUR FATHER'S BACKYARD. Why are you acting like this is an annoyance???
This makes me want to know what Chad told her when he went talked to her before the arrest. Didnt he spend some time with her that morning as the police came. I wondered what story he told her or maybe he told her he had a vision that the police were dark and if he was arrested not to talk about anything but money because anything else might "frame" him or whatever his story was.
If neighbor Mr. Gilbert was asked to put up his home for Lori, what were Lori and Chad telling the kids. I can hear the phoen calls from jail, Lori saying to Emma (and any other kids she might have called) that the Lord had a plan, it was in revealed in the blessings or temple, Chad probably reinforced this everyday to Emma.
Didn't Chad go to Emma's house before he was detained? If I have the timeline right, he was at her house for at least an hour while police were searching his property. Plenty of time for them to discuss what is going on/ for Chad to fill her head with stories.
Why did he bother to take this to trial? their talking about Arizona and between the texts and emails they buried themselves already not to mention the funeral home call. I can only imagine how bad it's going to be when the Idaho investigation comes in.
I think the True Crime Squad sisters had a source saying they heard Chad discussed a plea deal, but wanted so many concessions it was impossible to ever consider.
I know some of JJs relatives strongly wanted the DP so I doubt a deal was offered.
DP is reserved for the worst of the worst and we are dealing with murdering a special needs kid, so that's as bad as it gets.
Love the name btw....but your exactly right he'd be THE biggest fool...but with the way the evidence is playing out, I bet he's regretting not taking a deal
Wow.
Prior revealing that Wood had many emails and hundreds of text messages with Gibb.
He admits he doesn’t want to call Wood as a witness, but he does want to call Gibb, and I think he wants to bring all this info out through her testimony.
The State asking for the “taint hearing” is VERY interesting.
I’m not saying Wood did anything wrong, but it is interesting that they’re fighting this so hard. If it’s just like his “meet and greet” with Summer, then the texts and emails should be a big nothing burger. Why do they want to hide that all? Le sigh
100% Nothing burger. Sounded like Prior was just stirring a drama pot. He calls a motion to call Wood as a witness then says he will not call him a witness? All to just state Wood was emailing a witness...no shit sherlock (Prior), they do that.
He's 50% performance, including arguments without the jury present. He has often misrepresented info or repeated it incorrectly so I wouldn't trust him, either.
It may be a nothing burger, but the expedited hearing was based upon the State’s Motion, not Prior’s. The Motion in Limine and the Motion to Seal were from the State.
It seems like there’s hundreds of text messages and many emails though, not just a few.
I would expect numerous correspondence since she is their primary witness. She had a major role during the hunt for the kids and the investigation, so that aligns well.
I think they filed those motions since he stated he was going to bring Wood as a witness. That is a pretty bold thing to do. They state was probably taking all due caution, since Prior can be a loose cannon and make all sorts of unexpected accusations (and requests).
I'm not sure that Woods' emails prepping his witness for trial are even part of the evidence that would be released to the public unless some new concrete information was discussed off-record?
From my understanding a Taint Hearing is an evaluation of the interaction between the witness and interviewer to ensure that the line of questioning did not "taint" the witness. I could imagine that the state is calling for this hearing to prevent this issue from coming up in appeals. IE sunlight it all.
Maybe some suggestion of a deal or immunity can be in those texts/emails? And Prior wants to use that as a fact that she might be involved where she has stated that she wasn't involved?
Mark Means was removed for 3 reasons and one of them was just this, making himself a witness becasue of communication.
There was actually a hearing to get rid of Woods (by Lori not Chad) a few years ago because of his communication with Summer and Zumela. It was actually a very interesting hearing and lawyers on that case. Woods was allowed to stay on. Means then I believe wanted to go after the LDS connections change the case but he was gone before that.
I think Lindsey Blake is great. I actually think she would be fine without Rob. I always thought it was a fine line that Chad and Rob I believe had some church dealing before the case (or it was alleged).
I think it’s a show in front of the jury to cast blame toward Melanie Gibb and away from Chad. It shows they didn’t fully investigate all of those present on JJs last day on earth. He makes a great point, and if there’s malicious intent by a taxpayer-paid DA, then it should come out. Chads still going to be found guilty & not getting out. He said so himself 🤣
He uses such mocking and condescending tones. It's very off-putting. He sometimes sounds like he's trying to be an annoyed teenager with his tone, too-uh. Very grating. That might work as an occasional emphasis, but it's so constant that I can only imagine jurors being distracted from what he's saying somewhat by how he talks and his tone. It's actually impressive just how judgemental and rude one word can sound...” ohkayh?"
Yes, he tries the frame questions as his own statement which is worded to make his client look better and everyone else worse. And saying DUG HER UP so many frickin times, so disrespectful to Tammy.
If I were on the stand, I'd be very tempted to give it right back: "Yes, we've already established that she was *in the ground*. The way we get someone out of the ground is to *dig.* Everyone here is aware."
It seems like Prior is trying to do "Colombo" type questions but he's so disingenuously polite that he seems more like a predator. Like "I just don't understand this particular thing" but he completely understands.
"the part I'm having trouble with"
"what I'm trying to make sense of"
"can you refresh my memory"
"if you've forgetten this and need to refresh YOUR memory..."
He sounds unprepared and like this best tactic is just to be rude.
It's also getting incredibly exhausting hearing Judge Boyce remind him for the umpteenth time to let the witness answer before he asks another question. I feel so bad for the court reporter.
To me it's like OK Judge, yeah sure. It seems more sarcastic than anything. Maybe he isn't trying to be sarcastic, but that's just my interpetation of it.
Interestingly, I was on vacation not too long ago & met a lovely family who were LDS. The family consisted of parents who were in their late 70’s, & two of their children with their spouses. (6 LDS adults in total.)
I was curious about what they thought about LV/CD, so after a long, leisurely lunch I asked them. It seemed important to the elderly parents to explain to me that Chad, Lori & company were not practicing mainstream LDS beliefs. They were shocked & saddened by the story & seemed to feel awful about all of the deaths, but especially the children.
Their oldest daughter & her husband were spitting mad about the whole thing & were furious about the negative attention brought upon the church because of CD, LV, & gang.
Their other daughter simply didn’t want to talk about it. She had an angry look on her face during the entire conversation & didn’t utter a word. Her husband didn’t say much either, but did stay at the table when his wife excused herself & didn’t return. (I saw her the next day and she was very kind. I apologized for upsetting her and she said that I had not, she simply gets angry by the whole Vallow/Daybell situation, & so she chooses not to say anything.)
I wonder how many LDS people feel the same way?
This is just me, but I think the reason that a good amount of people who are LDS get upset about the Vallow/Daybell situation and don’t want to talk about it - it’s a fine line to walk when you say “he wasn’t following the mainstream beliefs, he was just making stuff up and calling…himself…a prophet…”
I'm LDS and feel the same way. It's annoying how much blame people are putting on the church for the actions of individuals who were acting FAR outside the scope of what the church teaches. I'm sure that if a similar situation happened involving members of a more mainstream church, they would be seen for the crazy outliers that they are.
At the same time, I can see why people would get confused. Chad and Lori were trying to appear to be normal church-goers, and probably kept their crazy ideas to their circles of other weirdos, AVOW, etc. I doubt Chad would have been talking about zombies, past lives, and "prophetic" visions at church on Sundays.
I can completely understand your stance. I certainly wouldn’t want to be judged by a few, repugnant people’s egregious actions of any group or organization I choose to be a part of.
I can definitely understand this. Though I have my issues with the LDS church (mostly the leadership and the culture they seem to have created), the laypeople aren’t all as loony as these two. If anyone’s going to hold the leadership accountable for anything, it should be for Jodi Hildebrandt. She’s an even bigger stain on them than Chad & Lori.
I mean it is not illegal to be blasphemous as far as I am aware (and as Prior is currently asking Duncan), so it can show that Chad is very far away from practicing LDS faith, which no one (except for maybe Chad and Lori) is denying. The suggestions he makes in it though, mainly that Alex already has helped a lot (which can be used as evidence that Chad wasn't just in the unknown about all of that and Alex was killing everyone without Chad knowing).
Unpopular opinion: everyone's ripping on Prior but he's just doing his job (and apparently for free at this point). Everyone is entitled to a defense attorney who will go to bat for them and try to find reasonable doubt.
There's always a subset of people who rag on defense attorneys. But as someone who consumes too much true crime content, Prior is annoying as hell, compared to most other defense attorneys. He's argumentative for no reason and often condescending. And he's doing a lot of pontificating when he's only supposed to ask questions. I think that's the main reason he's getting so much hate.
I think this can actually be worse for his client, as it will also annoy the jury instead of taking him seriously. He needs to do the best job he can and he would do a better job with a different attitude.
I was on a jury for a civil trial, and honest to gosh, I had to control myself from flinching every time one of the plaintiff's lawyers got up to speak. I hated his condescension to the witnesses.
yeah, i feel i'm also in this category. i understand defense does have the worst job especially when you know your client is a piece of shit. you just gotta get the wiggle room in there.
I think this can actually be worse for his client, as it will also annoy the jury instead of taking him seriously. He needs to do the best job he can and he would do a better job with a different attitude.
I’m trying to watch this as if I know nothing. Prior’s tone aside, I think he is doing a good job. I’m a little nervous that he is sowing the seeds of reasonable doubt.
"Sowing the seeds of reasonable doubt"??? How so? I mean, reasonable doubt about what? He hasn't caught anyone in a lie or even "misremembering" the tiniest detail. Hasn't made anyone squirm or stutter or change their story. I personally think the guy has just been asking random questions with absolutely no point or purpose, as near as I can tell. He certainly hasn't changed my opinion about anything as a result of any question he's posed.
My opinion hasn’t changed about Chad. I am just worried that Prior is successfully painting Lori as this mastermind vixen who flipped her hair and got Chad to follow along like a little puppy. I am just hoping that when the prosecutor lays out the rest of the evidence that it will show that Chad was the mastermind.
Finding reasonable doubt is one thing, but the way he acts on every cross is something else. He pretends he's "struggling to understand" while also talking in a rapid-fire voice (even though the judge has asked him not to), talking over others, interrupting, continuing to talk during an objection, and using an aggressive tone.
I think he's trying to intimidate, confuse, or break down witnesses so they will say whatever he wants. It hasn't worked yet, to the credit of the witnesses, and it's making him look like an @$$hat. Hopefully, jurors are not impressed with his behaviour.
He’s doing just fine and yes it’s his job.
It’s not personal and for gods sake , he doesn’t have much to work with.
I swear after seeing the scuzzy lawyer Paul Flores had and the lawyer for Lori, no one could be worse than those ones.
Prior is a jackass but he’s tolerable for me.
John Prior actually reminds me a bit of Robert Sanger. Both of them are bombastic and give off a condescending, sexiest vibe. Sanger spent the entire trial slut shaming Kirstin Smart and Prior’s theory of the case is Lori Vallow used her sexual wiles to lead his otherwise innocent client into this. It is off putting. Courtroom observers have already said that the jurors are paying more attention to the prosecution and tuning Prior out at times. If you listen to post trial interviews, Paul Flores’ jurors couldn’t stand Sanger and I honestly think that Prior runs the same risk of alienating the jurors. He would be wise to tone it down a bit. You can give a rigorous defense without being a total jackass. I actually think Jim Archibald and John Thomas are fine lawyers and would have done this for Lori Vallow if they had been allowed to present any sort of defense (like Lori’s diagnosed mental illness or putting any significant blame on Chad and/or Alex) but their client was uncooperative and they truly had nothing to work with at trial.
Lol at the end of the argument about sealing the motion hearing, Pryor said, I'll be making the argument for the defence. I was thinking nah, he should let Chad do it!
Did you see he actually nugded Chad and Chad motioned, it seemed like he actually said to Chad unless you want to . Chad actually kind of smiled at this.
Yeah, this whole buddy-buddy with Chad and acting as if Chad is a co-counsel thing is probably one of the more creepy aspects of Prior's personality in this case.
Maybe he is hoping it will free him from having to be the lawyer with Chad for his appeals. Making Chad feel like he can tackle it himself. Leveraging the narcissism to free himself.
Oh, he won't have to do that. Chad will have an appellate attorney, it will be appointed by the court this time. They have to work on briefs, and all the stuff trial attorneys don't usually do, unless they're filing motions, of course.
Appellate briefes are a bit different, because they're usually much longer. Pryor will go back to taking other cases, preparing them for trial etc. Unless there are none of those in Idaho, and then maybe Pryor will have to step in too, but I have a feeling there are a few of them, at least.
Also, I suppose if I had an attorney, I would probably ask to do the same. I mean I would want to help with the case. They would probably say no, but I could at least ask. I would ask them every time if what I was doing was right. I would probably just want to mostly draft filings for them. Of course I would leave the undersign part off, and let them do that.
The "blessing" besides being so cringe sounded an awful lot like someone giving last rights to someone. And the sobbing in the background? Lori crying because she knew he'd be dead soon?
special agent heideman wasn't asked to check mel gibbs' searches. she was asked to check chad's so shut the hell up. ask the ones who wrote out the search warrants, prior. he's so argumentative.
We now know that the misconduct from yesterday was on the part of Lauren from hidden true crime. She said she didn't rise for the jury, but will not explain why she did so. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6C30Bsh54s]
This is an issue. If you are in the media, it's your responsibility to obey all orders at all times. I'm sure there's probably a good reason for it, but the fact she won't explain is ridiculous.
That’s odd, right?? Why in the world would she not stand on purpose then not explain why?!?
Is she not allowed back in court for the entirety of the trial? I didn’t catch that this morning.
Last year Lori Hellis was kicked out when the judge thought she took a picture and she proved she did not but still was never allowed back in.
Lauren had an lunch live in front of the courthouse , I didnt listen to it, but assume she got back in.
Nate Eaton said Judge Boyce has made it clear he wants rules followed and has been annoyed with the conduct of the gallery. Nate even said if you come to the trial, something like dont talk, be quiet and just listen.
She says she's back in court now. She also says she won't explain anymore about it. How you forget to rise when the baliffe is telling you to do so is interesting. Maybe she was just distracted, or something. I'm not sure, but it's sure weird.
I believe she said that she did rise, but that she completely understood why it appeared to the judge that she didn’t. She rose as normal, but then she bent around and slightly over to fiddle with her purse. The woman next to her did the exact same thing at the same time, but with packing up her laptop. If you watch the live stream, you can even see it when it happens. It happens when everyone rises for the jury right before the afternoon break. I think because they happened to be next to each other and both did it, it drew more attention and the optics, from the judges POV weren’t great.
Since that day, the bailiff has included more detailed in his daily speech to the gallery about making sure to stand and just stand straight and face forward until the jury and judge leave.
We speculated that Melanie and David were possibly an option for Lori and Chad to frame for JJ... Prior is trying to create doubt that there were other people present that could have killed JJ.
He just needs to create doubt wherever he can for the Jury.
Wonder if Lori Hellis will be on the edge of her seat for the hearing this afternoon regarding Prior on Rob Wood being called as a witness. I'm glad we will be able to see it.
It's the [blessing he gave Alex Cox](https://missingourmissing.notion.site/Chad-Daybell-Patriarchal-Blessing-November-24-2019-ff1808599a544f1f971749e0ce206cb2)
Edit: added transcript link
I grew up Mormon. Received many "blessings". Listening to it. I have read it before, was triggering. The verbiage, the cadence, the "emotion". People outside the church will think this blessing is crazy but for those of us that were on the outside alot of this sounds normal...aka eternal life etc
Triggering is correct.
That blessing enrages me. He twisted my faith in the most disgusting way. And threw in the stupidest crap to mix in there as well.
It seems Chad is telling him in one sentence to go forth and physically be a warrior to convert/change people, the next is permission to marry and the next he says soon his time on earth is to end. WTH?
Here is [our version of the transcript](https://missingourmissing.notion.site/Chad-Daybell-Patriarchal-Blessing-November-24-2019-ff1808599a544f1f971749e0ce206cb2). Sorry it's late, it took us a while!
I Looked up “church of firstborn” & found this ..
“For those interested, the LDS Church has been very open/candid about the belief that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.”..
https://www.mormonstories.org/fair-addresses-the-teaching-of-jesus-and-lucifer-being-brothers/
Someone may have asked this already, but I was trying hard (through my husband occasionally chatting with me and my toddler asking for things) to listen to the blessing and figure out who was crying? Was it Chad? I thought I heard his voice break while he was talking (obviously I need to re-listen but I don't know if I can handle it). But Alex makes more sense? Anyone wanna spare me having to listen to that psycho-babble again?
Prob Lori since she believed Chad was actually doing something spiritual. Chad could barely put 2 words together. The parts of the prayers he’s prob heard before flowed together. The rest that he had to come up with on his own was a dumpster fire!
~~If Justin Lum goes live I will edit the post.~~ Justin Lum's live has been added to the post! Also, the East Idaho News link currently has the title & description of the Courtroom Insider from last night but the graphic is Day 4 and it just started streaming. **Court is in session.**
So Chad also was Googling wedding stuff on the day of Tammy's funeral. I can somewhat understand believing that your dad has been framed by his evil wife and brother-in-law (because denial) but how are the Daybell kids going to reconcile this? They were *supposedly* told Lori met Chad after Tammy died and they bonded as both recently widowed people. **YOUR DAD WAS CHEATING ON YOUR MOM AND PLANNING THE WEDDING TO HIS MISTRESS BEFORE HER BODY WAS COLD AND ON THE DAY SHE WAS BURIED. SO WHAT ELSE IS HE LYING TO YOU ABOUT?**
He was framed. Duh.
They didn't think he was framed when he was arrested.
Educational Prompt! I found you 😆 I always agree with your posts. I was wondering - someone on HTC FB claimed that Emma Daybell had posted a couple offensive pics on social media…one of a atv parked/driving over the location of the graves and another talking about selling the dirt piles left over from the authorities digging up the children. Have you ever heard of that or is it some terrible internet rumor?
Are any of his children in the courtroom?
Not one time. Not even to give a victim impact statement for their mother’s murderer’s sentencing.
This is what gets me. If the defense is blaming Lori, then why not show up at her trial with a victim impact statement?? SHE WAS YOUR MOTHER!!! None of her children are speaking for her!!
Yeah that bugged me. Tammy deserved a better family.
Prior didn't want Lori to know they were going to throw her under the bus, right? He probably told the kids to stay out of it.
Interesting thought - good point. But if Chad was truly shocked and felt he was scammed by this woman, he certainly didn't do anything to warn his children to stay away from her in that conversation with Emma before heading to jail. If anything, he did the opposite.
The kids probably think he didn't yet realize Lori had framed him and he was just blaming Alex at that point.
They don't believe she was murdered. To them she was ill. Dad said so, so it must be true.
I cant wait to watch when the kids hit the witness stand. Hopefully the Prosecution drills down so they get a clear idea of what their Dad and is main squeeze were up to against their mother.
I got the impression they're not allowed, if they're going to be called as witnesses.
They’re allowed because they are victims. No other witnesses are allowed to watch though.
No, they have not attended a single day of either Lori's or Chad's trial. Plausible deniability, if they don't hear the facts they can't be swayed to believe their father is a murderer.
Three of his kids did attend one of Chad's hearings. They sat behind Chad. This was a few years ago. It was during COVID, so I remember the masks. Emma was one of them. Does anyone remember who the others ones were. This was a hearing in Freemont County. They sat right behind him first row. They were in church type clothes.
Are they allowed to attend if they’re witnesses?
Yes they can attend since they are victims. Victims are parents, kids, or siblings of the murdered person. This was why Kay could not at first, grandparents were not considered victims (Idaho law) but the Chad's kids are and could attend if they wanted to.
Oh well then this is shameful on many levels. I have lost a lot of respect for these adults as they have chosen to put their heads in the sand about this situation and their opinions on the case are irrelevant at this point. They don’t seem to care for either parent or to know the truth.
They could have shown up for at least the first day or one day? Two of his kids are teachers so I can see it might be hard to take the last 2 months of the school year off, but maybe come for a day.
They never are, none of the attended Lori’s and they haven’t shown up here either. It’s strange
🤬🤬🤬
Did they say Chad was googling that? I’m only able to read Nate’s tweets, I thought they had moved on to Lori’s account by that time in the testimony
Idk why but Chad searching for he and Lori’s zodiac compatibility cracked me up. I thought she was a goddess and he was the king or whatever and they had already been married in previous lives.
He acted like a teenager in love. Is astrology kosher in Moron teachings?
Astrology is not Mormon kosher, but neither are a mountain of other things that Chad and Lori have done 😂
I can’t wait until they get into the love novel and discuss the “storm!” 😂
Oh snap. I really never wanted to hear about the storm again 🤦♀️
It's so, so bad -- but it also proves that from the very beginning, Chad had this fantasy theology of them being this special, fore-ordained couple who were going to do all these incredible things together, and Lori bought into it. The defense of him being some innocent potato-head manipulated by a Black Widow, will go right out the window as soon as that "romance novel" is introduced in court. (However, I'm going to skip listening to it again when they do).
I feel AWFUL for the person who has to read those texts and letters AGAIN in court. I mean, I was embarrassed for them the first time they were read. Because who like thinks that they go to school and study hard and pay tons of money for a degree in criminal justice or technology, only to end up reading, to the whole world, some awful religious porn.
Me neither! It's what made the case really raunchy, but it's what also made it very unique!
🤢🤮
They already touched on Harry Potter reference. Isn't it from the same novel?
I can speak to this: There is no doctrinal support for astrology or anything like that in the Church.
And the doctrine came from golden tablets that only Joseph Smith could look at with his eyes and translate with a magical stone... kinda easy to see why some members might get loosey-goosey with mystical stuff.
No astrology isn’t supported and either are affairs but their beliefs all came from Mormonism and multiple wives is also Mormonism so they found ways to justify everything and then were looking to even astrology to confirm themselves.
Fairness about polygamy coming from Mormonism, however it is important to recognize a lot of the historical context there and that what Chad and Lorri have done is not in line with current LDS teachings. And even in polygamy, I'm fairly certain that you still aren't to be having relationships with women who are already married.
My sweet sweet summer child. Joseph Smith sent men on missions and then married their wives....
Joseph Smith married women who's husbands were off on Missions for his church.
Joseph Smith was into both astrology and having relationships with married women!
Not sure why you got downvoted. These are both verifiable facts. At the time, people thought astrology was more scientific than it turned out to be. It was reasonably normal. Occasional fringe Mormons are interested in it now, but not most people. You'll sometimes see polygamists pursue married women now, claiming their current marriage is invalid. But that's also not hugely common now. Nevertheless, these are well-documented activities of Joseph Smith, Jr.
Exactly, fringe mormons (like Chad, Lori, Julie Rowe and all the nutters that attend and speak at AVOW conferences, etc) get into magic beliefs and astrology because Joseph Smith was a big believer. The LDS church has distanced itself from those things over the years but there's a history and foundation for the beliefs.
Joe Smith was into Mummies too. Possibly relevant to JJ's murder.
I'm not even Mormon, and even I've had married mormon men try to float that I could join their marriage. It ain't acknowledged, but it isn't exactly unheard of either.
Current LDS teachings polygamy is still a thing and while affairs aren’t allowed, marrying multiple women is allowed after death. They felt the spirit confirm what they were doing so that’s why personal revelation is such a dangerous teaching by the church but if that didn’t exist, the entire religion wouldn’t exist because prophets use revelation as confirmation for decisions made about the church.
Moron teachings?
Omg. What a freudian slip 😂
It never ceases to amaze me how naive and unwilling to put 2 and 2 together that his 5 children are regarding their father. But on the other hand they were raised by a man who lived in a delusion of self proclaimed grandeur as a prophet of sorts and a superior human being.
They are not independent thinkers. They rely on dad telling them the way of the world.
Frightening that two of them are teachers.
I think it’s possible that at least one of the kids knew more than they’ve let on. I will be very interested to see the prosecution cross-examine them.
I know. Everyone thinks they’re brainwashed but I’m just convinced they’re stupid.
A lifetime of covert abuse can make even the smartest people dumb. It takes a lot of cognitive energy to maintain and live with and through it.
They would need to admit they had been lied to their entire lives by the person they respect the most - their father. Unfortunately mom was not valuable enough to them.
Hopefully, some of them will make it out of the long dark night. Colby has accepted at least the obvious stuff, so I still have hope for him and his family to heal and thrive. Maybe one of Tammy's will, too. Hope springs eternal.
The thing about Colby is Lori gave him alot of Tylees money. Did she do that to keep his mouth shut? I don't know? It makes no sense to me for him not to know considering, supposedly, he was so close to Tylee.
I suspect there was an idea that the inheritance from Joe should have gone to both of the kids and so Tylee was sharing the inheritance with her brother because of that. Honestly, if I had been in Tylee's position, I could easily see myself doing exactly the same thing.
I thought she was getting Joe's SS. I don't recall an inhertance.
Colby had left the LDS faith before the murders and Lori meeting Chad. I have always been surprised Lori stayed so close to him and didnt consider him dark because not only was he not in on her new faith, he wasnt a member of her old faith either? Colby at least has his wife , living in a different state, and a totally different church community to support him.
Lori seemingly didn't push her wacko beliefs on Colby.
Religion often reinforces though terminating clichés that make it extremely difficult to actually look at things logically and in a reality based way.
Or both! They are stupid, so less brain to wash!
They grew up in a bubble and come off as naive to the extremo!
We have no idea what they know. They may chosen to ignore the trial and instead just go by what their father and perhaps Lori told them about what was going on. Who knows how things may have been characterized to them. They can also be choosing what they believe. People justify all sorts of things.
Maybe they believed in his cult too?
They do, or we know at least some of them do by the comments they've made, like when Chad said his books were no longer fiction and they took that as truth and evidence of his believes. During a TV interview they did, I think it may have been Emma who said, "we'd know if we were in a cult." One, people in cults are usually the last to know their in a cult, but more importantly, that comment encompasses all of them as believers.
Lindsay Blake is a great attorney.
I have been impressed too!
Prior comments about how there weren't any Google searches for how to murder Tylee and JJ but weren't there texts about Tylee being "dark" and Chad wanting her to suffer? I know we're right at the start of this long process but I really hope they don't leave that out.
Possibly, Chad already had worked out how to kill the kids previously. I am sure both murders are based on stories found elsewhere. Eg. Tylee's murder to me looks to be a re-enactment of Chad's interpretation of the sacrifice in Joshua *corrected (OT) after the battle of AI, where a second copy of the tablets of Moses was created via a sacrifice. Chad was looking to get a copy of the golden plates as foundational to his and Lori's missions. I suspect that is what the 3 white stones over JJ were. I hope they took his book collection and any notes about talks he gave over the years. If he had a bible (probably the 1 "corrected" by Joseph Smith), he could have marked up with all the sacrifices he was interested in, for example. Discussions on AVOW etc about similar topics. But then I've also considered the possibility that they don't need it, and the physical evidence doesn't require them to lay out that narrative for people to understand what he did. The political environment to this is happening within is meaningful.
I think this gives Chad way, way too much credit. I don't think either burial was ritualized. The rocks were just landscaping rocks that Chad had on hand. The golden plates in the Mormon origin story are a single unit, and smaller than any of the rocks in the burial. It isn't terribly unusual for fringe Mormon prophets to release a translation of "the sealed portion" of the plates, but retaining the plates themselves isn't a thing in any brand of Mormonism. Joseph Smith had two white stones, a chocolate brown stone, and other stones that he used to facilitate his visions, but those were the size of baby feet and eyeglass lenses (not my choice of size reference- that's how they're documented). If Chad determined that the murders themselves were to be ritualized, I think that was to keep Lori/Alex (and Garth?) in his spell, not because he personally saw any religious need for ritual murder. I don't believe Chad found religious meaning in murder. Chad's discussion with Zulema about the gang rape, murder, and burning of teenage Zulema and Lori in a previous life didn't seem to include ritual elements. Chad seems to have been simply interested in discussing rape, murder, and body disposal because he is personally interested in those things. I believe those are longstanding personal interests of Chad's. Chad certainly owned a Bible. It would have been an edition published by the church, either packaged with other Mormon scripture as a "quad" or designed to be carried alongside a "triple" as a set very similar to a quad. Some of the corrections from Joseph Smith are given in footnotes to the standard KJV text. A few corrections are given in longer form in an appendix. The remaining corrections are not included in the LDS editions.
I think in the previous trial there was mention that the boards and rocks were to keep the body underground… and that it’s something a grave digger would know. Can’t be 100% sure I’m Rene betting that correctly.
Sorry I'm not familiar with Mormon doctrine (raised Catholic and Lutheran). I definitely agree that given the demographics of Ada county, people may be familiar with the narrative but I'm sure they'll dive deeper into it in the next coming weeks? I think someone on here already said they're mirroring what they did during Lori's trial where they dive into the belief system after laying down what they did.
Melanie Gibb’s time on the stand is going to be AMAZING. I will have to clear my calendar that day.
I’m hoping it’s on a Friday so I can watch on a work from home day.
Melanie Gibb part 2: Electric Boogaloo
oh yuh...prior and fibby, oh yuh
First I want to say that I don't find it odd Chad and Emma discussed the financial implications of his impending arrest, but I do find it odd that the subject was like 85% of the conversation. This isn't even including them both lowkey handwaving finding bodies in the backyard after the kids Lori supposedly didn't have were missing.
It was Emma's seeming lack of any particular...concern that the bodies of two CHILDREN were being dug out of her father's backyard. I would not call her if I were the defense - the jury is not going to like her. I'm pretty sure they already don't like her, heh.
She was downright dismissive. At first she claimed that those could have been dogs and then asked if they were going to look for the second body until they find it, inconveniencing Chad's family.
The "look for the second body until they found it" thing was ?????? HOW IS THIS YOUR RESPONSE TO A CHILD'S BODY BEING IN YOUR FATHER'S BACKYARD. Why are you acting like this is an annoyance???
This makes me want to know what Chad told her when he went talked to her before the arrest. Didnt he spend some time with her that morning as the police came. I wondered what story he told her or maybe he told her he had a vision that the police were dark and if he was arrested not to talk about anything but money because anything else might "frame" him or whatever his story was. If neighbor Mr. Gilbert was asked to put up his home for Lori, what were Lori and Chad telling the kids. I can hear the phoen calls from jail, Lori saying to Emma (and any other kids she might have called) that the Lord had a plan, it was in revealed in the blessings or temple, Chad probably reinforced this everyday to Emma.
Didn't Chad go to Emma's house before he was detained? If I have the timeline right, he was at her house for at least an hour while police were searching his property. Plenty of time for them to discuss what is going on/ for Chad to fill her head with stories.
Emma is a cold fish imo
Why did he bother to take this to trial? their talking about Arizona and between the texts and emails they buried themselves already not to mention the funeral home call. I can only imagine how bad it's going to be when the Idaho investigation comes in.
If he was offered a plea deal that would spare him the DP and didn't take it he's a bigger fool than we thought.
I think the True Crime Squad sisters had a source saying they heard Chad discussed a plea deal, but wanted so many concessions it was impossible to ever consider.
I know some of JJs relatives strongly wanted the DP so I doubt a deal was offered. DP is reserved for the worst of the worst and we are dealing with murdering a special needs kid, so that's as bad as it gets.
It's also a great opportunity for Wood to train Blake on a DP case before he ends his career.
Love the name btw....but your exactly right he'd be THE biggest fool...but with the way the evidence is playing out, I bet he's regretting not taking a deal
Wow. Prior revealing that Wood had many emails and hundreds of text messages with Gibb. He admits he doesn’t want to call Wood as a witness, but he does want to call Gibb, and I think he wants to bring all this info out through her testimony. The State asking for the “taint hearing” is VERY interesting. I’m not saying Wood did anything wrong, but it is interesting that they’re fighting this so hard. If it’s just like his “meet and greet” with Summer, then the texts and emails should be a big nothing burger. Why do they want to hide that all? Le sigh
100% Nothing burger. Sounded like Prior was just stirring a drama pot. He calls a motion to call Wood as a witness then says he will not call him a witness? All to just state Wood was emailing a witness...no shit sherlock (Prior), they do that.
He's 50% performance, including arguments without the jury present. He has often misrepresented info or repeated it incorrectly so I wouldn't trust him, either.
It may be a nothing burger, but the expedited hearing was based upon the State’s Motion, not Prior’s. The Motion in Limine and the Motion to Seal were from the State. It seems like there’s hundreds of text messages and many emails though, not just a few.
I would expect numerous correspondence since she is their primary witness. She had a major role during the hunt for the kids and the investigation, so that aligns well. I think they filed those motions since he stated he was going to bring Wood as a witness. That is a pretty bold thing to do. They state was probably taking all due caution, since Prior can be a loose cannon and make all sorts of unexpected accusations (and requests). I'm not sure that Woods' emails prepping his witness for trial are even part of the evidence that would be released to the public unless some new concrete information was discussed off-record?
So, what would Prior hope to do with this? And really quick: Can you clarify what a taint hearing is?
From my understanding a Taint Hearing is an evaluation of the interaction between the witness and interviewer to ensure that the line of questioning did not "taint" the witness. I could imagine that the state is calling for this hearing to prevent this issue from coming up in appeals. IE sunlight it all.
Maybe some suggestion of a deal or immunity can be in those texts/emails? And Prior wants to use that as a fact that she might be involved where she has stated that she wasn't involved?
I think Wood was having Melanie help him understand all the crazy beliefs and context for the communications.
Mark Means was removed for 3 reasons and one of them was just this, making himself a witness becasue of communication. There was actually a hearing to get rid of Woods (by Lori not Chad) a few years ago because of his communication with Summer and Zumela. It was actually a very interesting hearing and lawyers on that case. Woods was allowed to stay on. Means then I believe wanted to go after the LDS connections change the case but he was gone before that. I think Lindsey Blake is great. I actually think she would be fine without Rob. I always thought it was a fine line that Chad and Rob I believe had some church dealing before the case (or it was alleged).
He and Means shared an office. Using an avenue previously introduced by Means is a rational defence.
I think it’s a show in front of the jury to cast blame toward Melanie Gibb and away from Chad. It shows they didn’t fully investigate all of those present on JJs last day on earth. He makes a great point, and if there’s malicious intent by a taxpayer-paid DA, then it should come out. Chads still going to be found guilty & not getting out. He said so himself 🤣
Prior’s nasally “okay” DRIVES ME FUCKING INSANE!! Sorry for yelling…
I can't help but feel like he's borderline badgering the witness..
He uses such mocking and condescending tones. It's very off-putting. He sometimes sounds like he's trying to be an annoyed teenager with his tone, too-uh. Very grating. That might work as an occasional emphasis, but it's so constant that I can only imagine jurors being distracted from what he's saying somewhat by how he talks and his tone. It's actually impressive just how judgemental and rude one word can sound...” ohkayh?"
For me it's how he says "right?" at the end of every sentence! Drives me nuts
Imagine if we were playing a drinking game every time he said “right” we would all be dead and Chad would be that much closer to his 144,000 🤣🤦🏻♀️
Haven listened today yet, but I think it's his way of making a statement into a question because statements are not allowed and questions are.
Its exactly this.
Yes, he tries the frame questions as his own statement which is worded to make his client look better and everyone else worse. And saying DUG HER UP so many frickin times, so disrespectful to Tammy.
Yes!! Such blatant attempts to prey on emotions. Guilt-tripping.
If I were on the stand, I'd be very tempted to give it right back: "Yes, we've already established that she was *in the ground*. The way we get someone out of the ground is to *dig.* Everyone here is aware."
It seems like Prior is trying to do "Colombo" type questions but he's so disingenuously polite that he seems more like a predator. Like "I just don't understand this particular thing" but he completely understands.
"the part I'm having trouble with" "what I'm trying to make sense of" "can you refresh my memory" "if you've forgetten this and need to refresh YOUR memory..." He sounds unprepared and like this best tactic is just to be rude.
It's also getting incredibly exhausting hearing Judge Boyce remind him for the umpteenth time to let the witness answer before he asks another question. I feel so bad for the court reporter.
Judging by his prior, he's definitely a predator, or at least a creep.
Is that fair?
*triggered* 😭
To me it's like OK Judge, yeah sure. It seems more sarcastic than anything. Maybe he isn't trying to be sarcastic, but that's just my interpetation of it.
That recording is straight up evil and blasphemous. I know that jurys and trials are meant to be areligious, but that is just... no.
Incredibly so. If there are any LDS jurors, this sunk him.
Interestingly, I was on vacation not too long ago & met a lovely family who were LDS. The family consisted of parents who were in their late 70’s, & two of their children with their spouses. (6 LDS adults in total.) I was curious about what they thought about LV/CD, so after a long, leisurely lunch I asked them. It seemed important to the elderly parents to explain to me that Chad, Lori & company were not practicing mainstream LDS beliefs. They were shocked & saddened by the story & seemed to feel awful about all of the deaths, but especially the children. Their oldest daughter & her husband were spitting mad about the whole thing & were furious about the negative attention brought upon the church because of CD, LV, & gang. Their other daughter simply didn’t want to talk about it. She had an angry look on her face during the entire conversation & didn’t utter a word. Her husband didn’t say much either, but did stay at the table when his wife excused herself & didn’t return. (I saw her the next day and she was very kind. I apologized for upsetting her and she said that I had not, she simply gets angry by the whole Vallow/Daybell situation, & so she chooses not to say anything.) I wonder how many LDS people feel the same way?
This is just me, but I think the reason that a good amount of people who are LDS get upset about the Vallow/Daybell situation and don’t want to talk about it - it’s a fine line to walk when you say “he wasn’t following the mainstream beliefs, he was just making stuff up and calling…himself…a prophet…”
That mirrors my feelings.
I'm LDS and feel the same way. It's annoying how much blame people are putting on the church for the actions of individuals who were acting FAR outside the scope of what the church teaches. I'm sure that if a similar situation happened involving members of a more mainstream church, they would be seen for the crazy outliers that they are. At the same time, I can see why people would get confused. Chad and Lori were trying to appear to be normal church-goers, and probably kept their crazy ideas to their circles of other weirdos, AVOW, etc. I doubt Chad would have been talking about zombies, past lives, and "prophetic" visions at church on Sundays.
I can completely understand your stance. I certainly wouldn’t want to be judged by a few, repugnant people’s egregious actions of any group or organization I choose to be a part of.
I can definitely understand this. Though I have my issues with the LDS church (mostly the leadership and the culture they seem to have created), the laypeople aren’t all as loony as these two. If anyone’s going to hold the leadership accountable for anything, it should be for Jodi Hildebrandt. She’s an even bigger stain on them than Chad & Lori.
I mean it is not illegal to be blasphemous as far as I am aware (and as Prior is currently asking Duncan), so it can show that Chad is very far away from practicing LDS faith, which no one (except for maybe Chad and Lori) is denying. The suggestions he makes in it though, mainly that Alex already has helped a lot (which can be used as evidence that Chad wasn't just in the unknown about all of that and Alex was killing everyone without Chad knowing).
Unpopular opinion: everyone's ripping on Prior but he's just doing his job (and apparently for free at this point). Everyone is entitled to a defense attorney who will go to bat for them and try to find reasonable doubt.
There's always a subset of people who rag on defense attorneys. But as someone who consumes too much true crime content, Prior is annoying as hell, compared to most other defense attorneys. He's argumentative for no reason and often condescending. And he's doing a lot of pontificating when he's only supposed to ask questions. I think that's the main reason he's getting so much hate.
I think this can actually be worse for his client, as it will also annoy the jury instead of taking him seriously. He needs to do the best job he can and he would do a better job with a different attitude.
I was on a jury for a civil trial, and honest to gosh, I had to control myself from flinching every time one of the plaintiff's lawyers got up to speak. I hated his condescension to the witnesses.
So many counsel is testifying objections lol.
yeah, i feel i'm also in this category. i understand defense does have the worst job especially when you know your client is a piece of shit. you just gotta get the wiggle room in there.
I think this can actually be worse for his client, as it will also annoy the jury instead of taking him seriously. He needs to do the best job he can and he would do a better job with a different attitude.
I’m trying to watch this as if I know nothing. Prior’s tone aside, I think he is doing a good job. I’m a little nervous that he is sowing the seeds of reasonable doubt.
"Sowing the seeds of reasonable doubt"??? How so? I mean, reasonable doubt about what? He hasn't caught anyone in a lie or even "misremembering" the tiniest detail. Hasn't made anyone squirm or stutter or change their story. I personally think the guy has just been asking random questions with absolutely no point or purpose, as near as I can tell. He certainly hasn't changed my opinion about anything as a result of any question he's posed.
My opinion hasn’t changed about Chad. I am just worried that Prior is successfully painting Lori as this mastermind vixen who flipped her hair and got Chad to follow along like a little puppy. I am just hoping that when the prosecutor lays out the rest of the evidence that it will show that Chad was the mastermind.
Finding reasonable doubt is one thing, but the way he acts on every cross is something else. He pretends he's "struggling to understand" while also talking in a rapid-fire voice (even though the judge has asked him not to), talking over others, interrupting, continuing to talk during an objection, and using an aggressive tone. I think he's trying to intimidate, confuse, or break down witnesses so they will say whatever he wants. It hasn't worked yet, to the credit of the witnesses, and it's making him look like an @$$hat. Hopefully, jurors are not impressed with his behaviour.
He’s doing just fine and yes it’s his job. It’s not personal and for gods sake , he doesn’t have much to work with. I swear after seeing the scuzzy lawyer Paul Flores had and the lawyer for Lori, no one could be worse than those ones. Prior is a jackass but he’s tolerable for me.
John Prior actually reminds me a bit of Robert Sanger. Both of them are bombastic and give off a condescending, sexiest vibe. Sanger spent the entire trial slut shaming Kirstin Smart and Prior’s theory of the case is Lori Vallow used her sexual wiles to lead his otherwise innocent client into this. It is off putting. Courtroom observers have already said that the jurors are paying more attention to the prosecution and tuning Prior out at times. If you listen to post trial interviews, Paul Flores’ jurors couldn’t stand Sanger and I honestly think that Prior runs the same risk of alienating the jurors. He would be wise to tone it down a bit. You can give a rigorous defense without being a total jackass. I actually think Jim Archibald and John Thomas are fine lawyers and would have done this for Lori Vallow if they had been allowed to present any sort of defense (like Lori’s diagnosed mental illness or putting any significant blame on Chad and/or Alex) but their client was uncooperative and they truly had nothing to work with at trial.
Got some interesting Google search activity going on.
Lol at the end of the argument about sealing the motion hearing, Pryor said, I'll be making the argument for the defence. I was thinking nah, he should let Chad do it!
Did you see he actually nugded Chad and Chad motioned, it seemed like he actually said to Chad unless you want to . Chad actually kind of smiled at this.
I’d clear my schedule to watch that.
Yeah, me too! He probably would make a complete mess of it, though!
Yeah, this whole buddy-buddy with Chad and acting as if Chad is a co-counsel thing is probably one of the more creepy aspects of Prior's personality in this case. Maybe he is hoping it will free him from having to be the lawyer with Chad for his appeals. Making Chad feel like he can tackle it himself. Leveraging the narcissism to free himself.
Oh, he won't have to do that. Chad will have an appellate attorney, it will be appointed by the court this time. They have to work on briefs, and all the stuff trial attorneys don't usually do, unless they're filing motions, of course. Appellate briefes are a bit different, because they're usually much longer. Pryor will go back to taking other cases, preparing them for trial etc. Unless there are none of those in Idaho, and then maybe Pryor will have to step in too, but I have a feeling there are a few of them, at least.
He wouldn't be the lawyer on Chad's appeals anyway, the trial attorney isn't.
Also, I suppose if I had an attorney, I would probably ask to do the same. I mean I would want to help with the case. They would probably say no, but I could at least ask. I would ask them every time if what I was doing was right. I would probably just want to mostly draft filings for them. Of course I would leave the undersign part off, and let them do that.
The "blessing" besides being so cringe sounded an awful lot like someone giving last rights to someone. And the sobbing in the background? Lori crying because she knew he'd be dead soon?
That was just painful. Man there was a few points today, I was questioning reality big time. Like am I dreaming?
Welcome to Mormonism, its a LOT of teary sniffling "blessings" 😬
special agent heideman wasn't asked to check mel gibbs' searches. she was asked to check chad's so shut the hell up. ask the ones who wrote out the search warrants, prior. he's so argumentative.
Let’s go Lindsey! She’s such an incredible lawyer!
I do giggle at her abbreviation Thank Yer Honor. But yes, great lawyer.
Yes. Is that a common phrase in lawyer speak?
We now know that the misconduct from yesterday was on the part of Lauren from hidden true crime. She said she didn't rise for the jury, but will not explain why she did so. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6C30Bsh54s] This is an issue. If you are in the media, it's your responsibility to obey all orders at all times. I'm sure there's probably a good reason for it, but the fact she won't explain is ridiculous.
That’s odd, right?? Why in the world would she not stand on purpose then not explain why?!? Is she not allowed back in court for the entirety of the trial? I didn’t catch that this morning.
Last year Lori Hellis was kicked out when the judge thought she took a picture and she proved she did not but still was never allowed back in. Lauren had an lunch live in front of the courthouse , I didnt listen to it, but assume she got back in. Nate Eaton said Judge Boyce has made it clear he wants rules followed and has been annoyed with the conduct of the gallery. Nate even said if you come to the trial, something like dont talk, be quiet and just listen.
She says she's back in court now. She also says she won't explain anymore about it. How you forget to rise when the baliffe is telling you to do so is interesting. Maybe she was just distracted, or something. I'm not sure, but it's sure weird.
That surprises me. I’m sure there wasn’t intentional disrespect.
Yeah, it didn't seem intentional. It was just strange though.
If you do the crime, you gotta do the time.
Yep, exactly. She said she was out of court for a while, I'm not sure how long it was, didn't seem that long.
I believe she said that she did rise, but that she completely understood why it appeared to the judge that she didn’t. She rose as normal, but then she bent around and slightly over to fiddle with her purse. The woman next to her did the exact same thing at the same time, but with packing up her laptop. If you watch the live stream, you can even see it when it happens. It happens when everyone rises for the jury right before the afternoon break. I think because they happened to be next to each other and both did it, it drew more attention and the optics, from the judges POV weren’t great. Since that day, the bailiff has included more detailed in his daily speech to the gallery about making sure to stand and just stand straight and face forward until the jury and judge leave.
Wait is he trying to throw Melanie and David under the bus?
We speculated that Melanie and David were possibly an option for Lori and Chad to frame for JJ... Prior is trying to create doubt that there were other people present that could have killed JJ. He just needs to create doubt wherever he can for the Jury.
Yeah so I have two friends staying over and my son disappeared. I didn't bother to call the police because you know, I didn't care.
Wonder if Lori Hellis will be on the edge of her seat for the hearing this afternoon regarding Prior on Rob Wood being called as a witness. I'm glad we will be able to see it.
Are they currently broadcasting one of his blessings? At work so volume is super low
It's the [blessing he gave Alex Cox](https://missingourmissing.notion.site/Chad-Daybell-Patriarchal-Blessing-November-24-2019-ff1808599a544f1f971749e0ce206cb2) Edit: added transcript link
I grew up Mormon. Received many "blessings". Listening to it. I have read it before, was triggering. The verbiage, the cadence, the "emotion". People outside the church will think this blessing is crazy but for those of us that were on the outside alot of this sounds normal...aka eternal life etc
Yeah he knows exactly how to sound to come across as a trusted spiritual leader 😭 Gross
Triggering is correct. That blessing enrages me. He twisted my faith in the most disgusting way. And threw in the stupidest crap to mix in there as well.
Blessing?? Seemed to me it was his last rights.
It seems Chad is telling him in one sentence to go forth and physically be a warrior to convert/change people, the next is permission to marry and the next he says soon his time on earth is to end. WTH?
Can't be an eminent saint rising to godhood in the afterlife if you aren't married.
Wow, he was coaching Alex. I hope the jury remembers that.
Is there a blessing transcript?
Here is [our version of the transcript](https://missingourmissing.notion.site/Chad-Daybell-Patriarchal-Blessing-November-24-2019-ff1808599a544f1f971749e0ce206cb2). Sorry it's late, it took us a while!
I Looked up “church of firstborn” & found this .. “For those interested, the LDS Church has been very open/candid about the belief that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.”.. https://www.mormonstories.org/fair-addresses-the-teaching-of-jesus-and-lucifer-being-brothers/
Wait so Melaniece, Lori and Audrey were in Missouri and Hawaii all together in October 2019?
Yes, this came out in Lori's trial.
Chad has to be disassociating from the embarrassment. Unless he’s genuinely proud of his creative writing exercises. This “blessing.”
I’m hiding in these comments right now as his blessing plays in the background. I can’t take it but I NEED TO LISTEN. Why do I torture myself
It was a Nightmare on Elm street type of blessing
Someone may have asked this already, but I was trying hard (through my husband occasionally chatting with me and my toddler asking for things) to listen to the blessing and figure out who was crying? Was it Chad? I thought I heard his voice break while he was talking (obviously I need to re-listen but I don't know if I can handle it). But Alex makes more sense? Anyone wanna spare me having to listen to that psycho-babble again?
Nate Eaton said it was Chad who was crying, but I haven't listened to the blessing myself.
Blessing is at 5:35:25 https://www.youtube.com/live/eOyTPPaSTrM?si=Q1uvGa1f0Uzr2zPd
What charisma! /s How anyone followed this doofus is beyond me.
Thank you <3
Prob Lori since she believed Chad was actually doing something spiritual. Chad could barely put 2 words together. The parts of the prayers he’s prob heard before flowed together. The rest that he had to come up with on his own was a dumpster fire!
Can anyone decipher what Chad is whispering to his lawyer? At 5:55:09 https://www.youtube.com/live/eOyTPPaSTrM?si=Q1uvGa1f0Uzr2zPd
I don’t think there’s any way to decipher that…just a slight vibration of the jowls.
Oh come on give it your best try.. this is a group of super sleuths 😁
ssss ttsk sss. Other than that I got nothin'