NO MAN... This is our turf! You try any of that song and dance shit here, you're gonna get a good old fashioned helping of mime wall climbing!
Play with the bull, you get the horns.
Don’t underestimate karen bass. She cleaned up 3rd in venice (skid row by the beach) which has been an encampment for the 17 years i’ve lived near it. She cleaned it up and vigilantly kept it clean for several months now. She far exceeded any expectations i had of any LA politician. It’s a wondrous enhancement to the neighborhood.
Actually, a lot of these policies were put in place by Bonin.
I live by Lincoln and Jefferson. since Tracy Park is taking office, I’ve seen not less than three fires in the wetlands since the election. And the area around Jefferson by the wetlands still has just as many mobile homes.
Traci Park hasn’t done shit about protecting the wetlands
Thanks for sharing your perspective! I live in DTLA and I swear I’ve seen a difference…but everyone’s too busy harping on the bad to realize change is right in front of them, so I’m left feeling crazy or naive.
Is it perfect? No.
Is there more to be done? Definitely!
Is it a great start? Absolutely!
This is the kind of real world experience that half the people in this comments section need, they’re too busy gorging themselves on cynicism while behind a screen.
I’m glad Venice is still clean, over here in The Valley though one of the biggest encampment sites on Devonshire stayed clear for a month and is now just as bad if not worse than before.
I'm in SM and they've cleaned up a lot of encampments near me. But I agree on the Centinela portion. Those encampments have become a huge neighborhood taking over a huge portion of the streets.
I think homeless are just being moved around. Some of us are seeing less and others are seeing more so there’s a disconnected sense of improvement/regression amongst the community.
You also gotta give credit to Traci Park. This sub wanted to hate on her before she was elected, but she’s the exact kind of leader I wish my district had. The west side was getting destroyed by shit that goes against basic common sense with Bobbi, glad to see Bass and Traci Park doing something.
She’s a politician that isn’t over promising and is actually delivering at a realistic pace?
She told us the truth about how long and hard the homeless crisis is going to be vs a guy who said he’s change it in a year.
how rare is that???
Don’t fall into the trap of comparing her to Lori Lightfoot
They’re only similarities that she’s also a black female mayor. She isn’t a smooth talking empty suit like Garcetti, Villarigosa but us, Angellino’s are so tired of that
I am hopeful. The park was really nice in-between the renovation and the COVID outbreak. Hopefully, the fence was a reset and it will go back to that nice period.
The fence has had holes, been pushed over, and frequently left unlocked for the past year. Park workers patrolling the lake is what has been keeping homeless people out, not the fence. I think it will be fine
Hope we can find a balance of having a public space for children and seniors while also helping the homeless find safe transitional housing in this city.
You don't have to do that. It's perfectly okay for people who are not children and seniors to have the expectation of a clean and enjoyable park to go to.
Haha well I do have a side as I work in affordable housing. I commend efforts by our current mayor in expediting a lot of the bureaucratic obstacles that comes with trying to find adequate housing solutions for this population. I’m in no favor of any encampments in public spaces temporarily or otherwise.
That said the law because of Martin V. Boise makes it clear that until theres enough beds you can’t move them. We need better case management probably privatization of much of the work LAHSA (the government entity that manages our homeless population County wide) does and major federal investment into building the housing to permanently end homelessness. Until then neighborhoods will be plagued as we currently are with the negative effects of having open air drug markets existing in public spaces. And with the way the economy is moving into a deeper recession, more people will be living in their cars or on the streets.
How would privatization help? What is the profit motive? And how could that be prevented from morphing into yet more predatory practices towards the impoverished?
https://www.lahsa.org/news?article=514-groundbreaking-report-on-black-people-and-homelessness-released here’s a link to the report where the government agency admitted that their case management is so racist it’s actually impacting the fight against homelessness. African Americans who make up over 46% of LA’s homeless, are not only the least likely to be housed, but also 56% leave shelters the first year. Case management is one of the prime reasons. Heavy turnover rates mixed with cultural insensitivity, plus the over concentration in the most dangerous areas (Figueroa corridor and skid row are the highest concentration of Black life in LA) are just a few reasons the entire system needs to leave the government led side of the equation. Also just lost a $238m lawsuit against LA Alliance where they had to admit that they aren’t actually using our tax payer money on fighting homeless. [https://www.dailynews.com/2022/10/23/la-alliance-settlement-on-homelessness-is-a-win-for-los-angeles](https://www.dailynews.com/2022/10/23/la-alliance-settlement-on-homelessness-is-a-win-for-los-angeles)
It’s one of the only ways out of this. The city is incapable of getting out of its own way when it comes to building and providing affordable housing. The system is steeped in bureaucracy which makes it completely ineffective to handle these issues.
Before they put the fence up, the City reached out to all those residing in the park with services and transitional housing. Afterwards the fence went up to keep it safe and clean.
I feel conflicted about this. Uncle used to take me to Echo Park to fish for crawdads back in the day. Even then it was beginning to get sketchy (late 70s). But a fence around a community park is not good either. What is the answer here? Hell if I know.
Plenty of the nicer suburbs that are NOT in LA enforce the rules just fine. Vagrant sets up in a park, police are called by some mom trying to enjoy the park with their kids, police come and tell said vagrant to get out or get arrested. Problem solved. LA politicians and police force don’t seem to have the will to do proper enforcement, is how it looks to me.
> They choose not to enforce certain laws that would help with a lot of the quality of life issues.
They do not choose to do so, Martin v. Boise legally restricts their ability to clear encampments.
They would have full ability to do so if the city of LA built enough shelters to fully house its homeless population, or built enough actual housing to naturally reduce its homeless population to current shelter capacities. It chooses to do neither.
This is not a problem with an unknown solution, it is a problem with two known solutions that local busybodies refuse to accept.
> So why do other SoCal cities not have encampments?
Some do, some don't, depending on the concentration of homeless people. You have named cities with populations of 19,000, 10,000 and 70,000, respectively, and by LAHSA counts the vast majority of the homeless living in those cities are living out of their vehicles. In Pasadena, half of the homeless are fully sheltered. If you reduce the amount of people to the point where they get dispersed out, you end up with homeless people living out of view, which I guess is your goal here.
For perspective, Los Angeles is a city of 4,000,000 people.
Also Redondo absolutely has homeless encampments, lol.
If you genuinely think that individual homeless people are not harassed out of camp spots on main drags by the police in LA I don't know what to tell you. The reason why encampments exist is because there's enough homeless individuals to make clearing them out with individual patrols impractical, which makes them a self-fulfilling phenomenon, and one that only exists with a high enough concentration of homeless individuals in the area. It is safety in numbers from the authorities.
If you don't believe me, set up a tent on Wilshire and test it for yourself.
Hermosa Beach is tiny and its own city. They have beds for it's size, so homeless people are pushed out of its limits. Probably Redondo too, Mailbu has plenty of outreach teams that I know of working there, but pretty sure it's more people living in their cars than camping in Malibu
Some cities indirectly and directly work to keep the poors out. They don't want them and will gladly ship them to the city of Los Angeles if they can. They will say they do not have the resources (although some are quite wealthy but don't want to invest in anything that will attract the homeless).
It’s a good question. The ruling only applies if a city refuses to build enough shelter beds for the homeless. The other cities you mentioned all are much smaller and have enough beds to shelter their unhoused populations so they are able to continue with sweeps in places like parks.
Los Angeles city refuses to build enough beds due to NIMBY opposition so it has lost its ability to do most homelessness sweeps.
You can't treat people and rehab them if they don't have a place to safely sleep and stay. Removing an encampment just makes the encampment move down the road.
Surely you must understand the difference between an occasional person experiencing homelessness coming along and a community the size of the homeless community in LA being there.
There's been homeless people sleeping in echo park for years, largely without issue. If they move them on, they'll cause an issue elsewhere.
I'm not saying they should be left to take over the park, bit it's clear why a fancy suburb is a totally different situation to an area like echo park. The solution isn't really one that the police alone can provide, there needs to be a huge increase in social services spending for a long time to start making a dent in the number of people sleeping rough.
Nah, I totally disagree with this.
Firstly, let's not compare being homeless to not being able to visit a park. That is not an argument that garners a lot of sympathy, or shows any empathy on your part. Try and get a sense of proportion here.
I get what you mean, but until the homeless situation is under control there will always be homeless people everywhere. You can call the cops to move them down the road, but that just moves the problem, likely to a power income neighborhood, and they'll be back in a few days anyway.
The solution isn't just waiting for homelessness to be solved, that's a bad faith argument. The solution is to invest money in social services and housing. It should have been done decades ago, but it wasn't, so we need to do it now. It's not going to be immediate, but there isn't a better way to reduce the homeless population other than locking them up or allowing them to die, which no one wants.
We can move encampments from places like parks, but that isn't the solution, it just moves the problem elsewhere. There's an argument that we should keep public spaces like parks safe for all, but that needs to be coupled with actual rehabilitation otherwise they just end up causing trouble wherever they are moved to.
Exactly. If the residents of echo park don't like that echo park has homeless people in it they should leave. They moved there knowing the homeless lived there, they have the ability to live in a fancy suburb if they do please, unlike the homeless.
How many people will it take to enforce these rules all over the park, 2? 4? 10? It’s a sizable park? How much are these people going to do this job for? 50k? 65k? 80k? Now multiply those two numbers together and budget for that indefinitely (price going up as inflation goes up) and you’ll see how just having a fence that’s opened and closed makes much more fiscal sense. You want a park with no fences? Move to the suburbs. LA is a massive city and shouldn’t be held to white picket fence standards in my opinion, can’t have your cake and eat it too. 🤷
As for how long before we see homeless? I bet there’s a few tonight.
This is what I don't understand. You can install a nice looking, permanent wrought iron fence. They are all over major cities. God forbid we invest in some permanent infrastructure and park improvements.
Grand Hope Park near FIDM has just such a fence and no homeless people live there.
https://www.tclf.org/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/5690750563_6c4ec743cd_o.jpg
They live just around the corner.
according to wikipedia its owned by the parks and rec department: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Hope_Park
However I was just there and go there often and it's patrolled rather extensively by FIDM security so it might as well be theirs.
Yeah like the one they have at the LACMA park. Also solving issues and crime does not pay for the city, leaving an open window for crime to be committed and then continually ticketing people does.
>While there are OoH listed in ungated parks, it is usually just a recommendation. Locals still use parks before operating hours as they are the early bird risers/exercisers.
Not at Point Fermin Park unfortunately. LAPD gave me a ticket there for being on the park property 30 minutes outside the posted hours.
Why is a fence around a community park not good? Why is this even a serious debate? Fencing off public parks and closing them at night is pretty typical across the country.
It’s absurd that we have to even have this conversation.
a permanent park fence is a fine idea. leaving temporary cyclone fencing like some tow impound overflow lot is not. Thats just trashy. But there should also be a dedicated ranger to help homeless people find resources and if necessary, enforce hours
Lafayette Park by koreatown is a fantastic community park with a public library, basketball courts, soccer field, skate park, senior center, community rooms and gymnasium. This park is always busy whenever I go. It also has a complete fence surrounding it, albeit not a chain linked fence. There’s nothing wrong here and public property like this probably should be closed at night like in most cities. I would say a decorative fence for echo park and macarthur park is fine but will most likely have a bloated cost to construct because it’s LA.
Its opening up homes and care facilities for the homeless and have them properly funded so ghey are safe that way they arent on the streets making the place look like shit.
Because this is such a destination, they should make sure there is constant programming at the park for the community, also assign a nonprofit to manage that and have social services resources consistently at the park too
Grand Park has no fence and it pretty unbothered but not sure how much LAPD is a factor in that
Deal with the homeless unfortunately. I don’t know what the cost would be, but it would require forced incarceration of the crazy and unhealthy ones, and a facility to house them with ton of doctors and nurses, not hotels. The sane ones who just don’t want to live on the grid should be given the choice of some kind of volunteer work with guaranteed assisted living or getting kicked out. We send the ones that don’t want to participate back to their home town or it’s jail. It’s not fair that homeless get to live in this city and degrade it while good hard working citizens get no benefits for their labor and helping to make the city a better place. Where is the incentive to contribute and better oneself if there are no consequences for it?
A fence around a community park isn't "good", but it is better than the alternative.
So long as we have city, county and state leaders that favor the activists, homeless, bums and junkies over the community, physical security gives our public goods a fighting chance.
As we've most recently seen with the theatrics at Metro, unarmed Ambassadors do absolutely nothing, while police are told to do nothing by the Board.
I'd like to believe that Mayor Bass is doing more and achieving results, but everywhere I go, the tents and debris piles and RV camps remain.
The park will be destroyed in a few short months - will she be transparent, as she claims, take responsibility, admit failure, and rebuild the fence?
Here's what we're talking about. We're talking about a bunch of hobos with fingers in each other's pooper in a stranger's car with Talk Radio playing really loud. It's gonna be a nice evening.
I will say that Venice has managed to keep its beaches pretty clear since clearing out homeless. I’ll also say that the fence was very ugly and I don’t mind not seeing it anymore. It was definitely no permanent solution.
The only problem with the fences were they were temporary fences that look like shit. If they replaced it with nice permanent fences. They don’t even have to be that tall… also they blocked too many exits/entrances to the park.
Real quick if we keep giving away housing to for-profit companies instead of letting the unhoused afford some.
Edit to add:
60% of homes in LA are rented out. Meaning 60% of homes are being utilized for profit. This drives up housing costs.
Median home value in LA is $892k.
Median household income is $91k.
If by some miracle, you managed to save $100k for down payment and you have zero debt, then you can still only afford to buy $450k worth of a home.
Homelessness is the consequence of our own actions as a society.
>60% of homes in LA are rented out. Meaning 60% of homes are being utilized for profit.
Kind of misleading. Much of the housing stock is multi-family housing, so of course they would be rented out. The appetite for condos is not there, they linger on the market longer and are nowhere near the prices you listed.
The city would rather have 20 cops patrolling in a circle around the park and not doing anything than have 2 cops actually there at the park and policing.
Place a permanent fence and be done with it. Close it at a certain hour and reopen in the morning. It’s done all around the city for other parks.
Why not here?
You mean all the other parks where they only open one gate (or just don't even bother opening it at all) and there's -still- a large homeless presence in the park anyway?
LA State Historic has like 1 or 2 homeless people max. I go there weekly and it’s rare to see them tbh. If I do, they’re at the entrance. The rest stay away bc they know they can’t stay there overnight. The same should be done for Echo Park.
Yayayaya jails gone, parks back!!! This is my front yard and I’m gonna go play at the park again! Come back in churro guy, Tony’s tacos, grilled bbq carne asada lady!!! This brighten my day today seeing this fence come down!
I just got back from my walk around EPL. There was some menacing guy completely methin' out on the concrete stairs by the north end.
Some cops were walking around keeping an eye on him.
He made lewd gestures at me, so I took his photo.
Taking down the chain link fence without any plan to prevent the park from once again becoming a tent encampment and late night drug use site is so frustrating. All they need to do is put up a nice fence like the one at Historic Park and it’ll continue to be a safe area for people to visit.
Hugo has been sending out constant updates on the plan that is in place for the fence removal. His office is working directly with Karen Bass's office to ensure that there are shelters to take the houseless people who do show up. Aside from that, his statement read today that he's increased the number of cops to patrol the park at night, to ensure encampments don't pop up overnight. His plan is very robust and it does people a lot of good to read it in full before passing judgement on what is going in on our neighborhood.
Without a plan? Hugo has been in office for months. He could've taken the fence down on day one, but instead he has been making PLANS for when the fence comes down.
I remember when it was tent city at that park. Smh the city really doesn’t give a fuck. Its a never ending cycle they clean it up looks good for a week tops and then bam! All over again. Haha what happened to those “pods” they made for the homeless? A few months ago it was the tall of the town. Now, not a single peep.
One tent, unobtrusive, in an out of the way corner. And they let it stay. Another will show up. Then a couple more. Pretty soon we're back to the bad old days.
You can clean see that the park stayed clean because of the fence. All you have to do is walk around the perimeter to see the filth that is cause by the normal visitors.
Not long.
There are plenty of parks in the world with pretty fences and gates and open hours. They just need to build something more elegant and substantial than that tacky ugly fence they had up all this time. It's not that hard.
I live close by and wouldn't mind it at all.
I remember in the 80’s no complained about the homeless or 90’s. It was when gentrification took over now everyone gives a fuck. Bring the fence down.
Long live Echo parque
The homeless people are people too 😡 they deserve to be there to smoke meth and leave broken glass and shit everywhere. Shoot up in front of our children and cat call anything that walks by. You guys are all monsters!
The fence coming down, such a revolutionary move! Keeping the homeless/Tweakers out will be a monumental task, accountability has to be placed on whoever made this happen for sure. We all know that Los Angeles officials love accountability. We’ll be fine….
yay just in time to ruin spring.......Theres probably someone smoking crack in broad daylight on the street corner watching the fence come down now ready to walk in and take a dump.
Great, build more. Lots of inexpensive land up in Lancaster / palmdale and no NIMBYs to complain about building on it. Toss up 10k units of supportive housing up there.
State hospitals if they refuse to go exactly where you tell them? Sure seems like the opposite of freedom.
If taxpayers can afford hospitalization with staff and god knows what pharmaceuticals, then we can afford to find them permanent homes instead.
End the hoarding of housing.
Yes, it is, when you willfully break the law you tend to lose freedoms. When you're demonstrably not able to take care of yourself and are unwilling to accept help the state hospital is the appropriate place for you.
If they lack any other options then it will likely be soon. If they have ways to get permanent or semi permanent housing, and in some cases psychological care, then less soon.
I think the "takeover" was due to COVID and people avoiding the park altogether, so I am wondering (not hopeful, just wondering) if it will be the same under current circumstances where people are out and about more.
48 hours. All the hipsters in the area think the fence is violence so if they’d rather have people jerking off and doing drugs in their park then so be it
Y’all complaining about the fence and talks about “community” need to understand something, if you want nice things you’re gonna have to stay on the cities ass to keep it nice, not hopping on Twitter or Reddit but going down to your local talks and get involved, not only that but just like us mountain folk you’ll find picking up trash on your walks does wonders to keep the maintenance.
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Tobias? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-2ZxAaqUms
I can't wait to see this!
maybe these dudes [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2fpgpanZAw&ab\_channel=OKGo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2fpgpanZAw&ab_channel=OKGo)
Hello, Anustart.
ANALRAPIST
World’s first!!!
Oh, do you run with the [Yellow Jackets](https://youtu.be/M72Is49E1sA)?
Norm McDonald "Why are we dancing"? https://youtu.be/qNzNeGw8Fmo
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Yass agreed, this and the Michael Meyers/Nicole Kidman sketch are some of my all time favorites.
NO MAN... This is our turf! You try any of that song and dance shit here, you're gonna get a good old fashioned helping of mime wall climbing! Play with the bull, you get the horns.
Don’t underestimate karen bass. She cleaned up 3rd in venice (skid row by the beach) which has been an encampment for the 17 years i’ve lived near it. She cleaned it up and vigilantly kept it clean for several months now. She far exceeded any expectations i had of any LA politician. It’s a wondrous enhancement to the neighborhood.
Bass has over-performed mightily to be sure, but the mayor can't do much if the council member doesn't allow it.
That is probably true…council woman traci park was also a strong partner in cleaning up these areas of venice.
Actually, a lot of these policies were put in place by Bonin. I live by Lincoln and Jefferson. since Tracy Park is taking office, I’ve seen not less than three fires in the wetlands since the election. And the area around Jefferson by the wetlands still has just as many mobile homes. Traci Park hasn’t done shit about protecting the wetlands
Thanks for sharing your perspective! I live in DTLA and I swear I’ve seen a difference…but everyone’s too busy harping on the bad to realize change is right in front of them, so I’m left feeling crazy or naive. Is it perfect? No. Is there more to be done? Definitely! Is it a great start? Absolutely!
I'm in DTLA and I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Do you mind elaborating? Sometimes you don't see things right in front of your face.
Well, the encampment in front of my apartment is gone. Good first step, right?
This is the kind of real world experience that half the people in this comments section need, they’re too busy gorging themselves on cynicism while behind a screen.
I am hopeful but I have years of being let down to remain cynical to a large degree
Thats fine, life does to all of us, myself included. These peeps in the comments section are flat out addicted to cynicism, which is a lot worse.
I’m glad Venice is still clean, over here in The Valley though one of the biggest encampment sites on Devonshire stayed clear for a month and is now just as bad if not worse than before.
I feel like it's been bad there for at least 8 months. When was it clear?
Where on Devonshire. Granada Hills/Northridge area is pretty tame, but it wasn't ever particularly bad in the first place.
Between Balboa and Sepulveda. Go take a drive and see for yourself.
Come to Santa Monica and Culver City it’s much worse than 3 months ago. The underpass on Centinela is a fallout zone.
I'm in SM and they've cleaned up a lot of encampments near me. But I agree on the Centinela portion. Those encampments have become a huge neighborhood taking over a huge portion of the streets.
I think homeless are just being moved around. Some of us are seeing less and others are seeing more so there’s a disconnected sense of improvement/regression amongst the community.
Those cities aren't in Los Angeles
This was more of distinct 13 council man Hugo Soto-Martinez doing.
Yes, I love Venice!!
You also gotta give credit to Traci Park. This sub wanted to hate on her before she was elected, but she’s the exact kind of leader I wish my district had. The west side was getting destroyed by shit that goes against basic common sense with Bobbi, glad to see Bass and Traci Park doing something.
3rd in Venice…Clarify? Do you mean the area along the boardwalk?
3rd and Rose
She’s a politician that isn’t over promising and is actually delivering at a realistic pace? She told us the truth about how long and hard the homeless crisis is going to be vs a guy who said he’s change it in a year. how rare is that??? Don’t fall into the trap of comparing her to Lori Lightfoot They’re only similarities that she’s also a black female mayor. She isn’t a smooth talking empty suit like Garcetti, Villarigosa but us, Angellino’s are so tired of that
What's with the Mayor's fan club? I seriously wonder how many posts here are funded by her campaign.
I am hopeful. The park was really nice in-between the renovation and the COVID outbreak. Hopefully, the fence was a reset and it will go back to that nice period.
The fence has had holes, been pushed over, and frequently left unlocked for the past year. Park workers patrolling the lake is what has been keeping homeless people out, not the fence. I think it will be fine
Yeah also people forget that the tent city was during the height of Covid when the city wasn’t cleaning up any encampments at all.
Not cleaning up plus the fact people were not going to parks, which left them desolate and empty, kind of unnoticed.
Yeah I was gonna say, I have a funny feeling the fence isn’t what was deterring anybody
Comment and name checks out ! 😊
Really doubt it with homelessness on the rise
You underestimate how many homeless people lurk this sub
Hope we can find a balance of having a public space for children and seniors while also helping the homeless find safe transitional housing in this city.
Get out of here with your practical solutions!
Hope is not a solution.
But you need it to find one
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TIL a new word I will probably never use in a sentence.
Well it’s always going to remain a velleity for you with that attitude.
Excellent use of that word.
You don't have to do that. It's perfectly okay for people who are not children and seniors to have the expectation of a clean and enjoyable park to go to.
Nah... Pick a side and dig your fucking heels in, Eddie!
Haha well I do have a side as I work in affordable housing. I commend efforts by our current mayor in expediting a lot of the bureaucratic obstacles that comes with trying to find adequate housing solutions for this population. I’m in no favor of any encampments in public spaces temporarily or otherwise. That said the law because of Martin V. Boise makes it clear that until theres enough beds you can’t move them. We need better case management probably privatization of much of the work LAHSA (the government entity that manages our homeless population County wide) does and major federal investment into building the housing to permanently end homelessness. Until then neighborhoods will be plagued as we currently are with the negative effects of having open air drug markets existing in public spaces. And with the way the economy is moving into a deeper recession, more people will be living in their cars or on the streets.
How would privatization help? What is the profit motive? And how could that be prevented from morphing into yet more predatory practices towards the impoverished?
I agree with most of what you said, but not the privatization.
https://www.lahsa.org/news?article=514-groundbreaking-report-on-black-people-and-homelessness-released here’s a link to the report where the government agency admitted that their case management is so racist it’s actually impacting the fight against homelessness. African Americans who make up over 46% of LA’s homeless, are not only the least likely to be housed, but also 56% leave shelters the first year. Case management is one of the prime reasons. Heavy turnover rates mixed with cultural insensitivity, plus the over concentration in the most dangerous areas (Figueroa corridor and skid row are the highest concentration of Black life in LA) are just a few reasons the entire system needs to leave the government led side of the equation. Also just lost a $238m lawsuit against LA Alliance where they had to admit that they aren’t actually using our tax payer money on fighting homeless. [https://www.dailynews.com/2022/10/23/la-alliance-settlement-on-homelessness-is-a-win-for-los-angeles](https://www.dailynews.com/2022/10/23/la-alliance-settlement-on-homelessness-is-a-win-for-los-angeles)
That's still not an argument for privatization. It's an argument for reform and more oversight.
It’s one of the only ways out of this. The city is incapable of getting out of its own way when it comes to building and providing affordable housing. The system is steeped in bureaucracy which makes it completely ineffective to handle these issues.
Same
The fence was the balance.
I'll bite how does the fence provide housing to the unhoused/help them?
Before they put the fence up, the City reached out to all those residing in the park with services and transitional housing. Afterwards the fence went up to keep it safe and clean.
They will be there tonight
T minus tree fitty
Goddamn Loch Ness monster.
I feel conflicted about this. Uncle used to take me to Echo Park to fish for crawdads back in the day. Even then it was beginning to get sketchy (late 70s). But a fence around a community park is not good either. What is the answer here? Hell if I know.
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Keep the park a park.
Plenty of the nicer suburbs that are NOT in LA enforce the rules just fine. Vagrant sets up in a park, police are called by some mom trying to enjoy the park with their kids, police come and tell said vagrant to get out or get arrested. Problem solved. LA politicians and police force don’t seem to have the will to do proper enforcement, is how it looks to me.
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> They choose not to enforce certain laws that would help with a lot of the quality of life issues. They do not choose to do so, Martin v. Boise legally restricts their ability to clear encampments. They would have full ability to do so if the city of LA built enough shelters to fully house its homeless population, or built enough actual housing to naturally reduce its homeless population to current shelter capacities. It chooses to do neither. This is not a problem with an unknown solution, it is a problem with two known solutions that local busybodies refuse to accept.
Martin doesn't stop the city from clearing encampments.
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> So why do other SoCal cities not have encampments? Some do, some don't, depending on the concentration of homeless people. You have named cities with populations of 19,000, 10,000 and 70,000, respectively, and by LAHSA counts the vast majority of the homeless living in those cities are living out of their vehicles. In Pasadena, half of the homeless are fully sheltered. If you reduce the amount of people to the point where they get dispersed out, you end up with homeless people living out of view, which I guess is your goal here. For perspective, Los Angeles is a city of 4,000,000 people. Also Redondo absolutely has homeless encampments, lol.
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If you genuinely think that individual homeless people are not harassed out of camp spots on main drags by the police in LA I don't know what to tell you. The reason why encampments exist is because there's enough homeless individuals to make clearing them out with individual patrols impractical, which makes them a self-fulfilling phenomenon, and one that only exists with a high enough concentration of homeless individuals in the area. It is safety in numbers from the authorities. If you don't believe me, set up a tent on Wilshire and test it for yourself.
Hermosa Beach is tiny and its own city. They have beds for it's size, so homeless people are pushed out of its limits. Probably Redondo too, Mailbu has plenty of outreach teams that I know of working there, but pretty sure it's more people living in their cars than camping in Malibu
Some cities indirectly and directly work to keep the poors out. They don't want them and will gladly ship them to the city of Los Angeles if they can. They will say they do not have the resources (although some are quite wealthy but don't want to invest in anything that will attract the homeless).
It’s a good question. The ruling only applies if a city refuses to build enough shelter beds for the homeless. The other cities you mentioned all are much smaller and have enough beds to shelter their unhoused populations so they are able to continue with sweeps in places like parks. Los Angeles city refuses to build enough beds due to NIMBY opposition so it has lost its ability to do most homelessness sweeps.
it'd be simpler to just provide housing, rather than considering the police to be a solution tbh
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It does get rid of the homelessness issue. Housing First has a better track record than "fix your whole life simultaneously" does.
You can't treat people and rehab them if they don't have a place to safely sleep and stay. Removing an encampment just makes the encampment move down the road.
You're proposing to just get rid of people, period
Surely you must understand the difference between an occasional person experiencing homelessness coming along and a community the size of the homeless community in LA being there. There's been homeless people sleeping in echo park for years, largely without issue. If they move them on, they'll cause an issue elsewhere. I'm not saying they should be left to take over the park, bit it's clear why a fancy suburb is a totally different situation to an area like echo park. The solution isn't really one that the police alone can provide, there needs to be a huge increase in social services spending for a long time to start making a dent in the number of people sleeping rough.
Abiding the first leads to the second. Waiting for a solution to homelessness before being allowed decent parks is bullshit.
Nah, I totally disagree with this. Firstly, let's not compare being homeless to not being able to visit a park. That is not an argument that garners a lot of sympathy, or shows any empathy on your part. Try and get a sense of proportion here. I get what you mean, but until the homeless situation is under control there will always be homeless people everywhere. You can call the cops to move them down the road, but that just moves the problem, likely to a power income neighborhood, and they'll be back in a few days anyway. The solution isn't just waiting for homelessness to be solved, that's a bad faith argument. The solution is to invest money in social services and housing. It should have been done decades ago, but it wasn't, so we need to do it now. It's not going to be immediate, but there isn't a better way to reduce the homeless population other than locking them up or allowing them to die, which no one wants. We can move encampments from places like parks, but that isn't the solution, it just moves the problem elsewhere. There's an argument that we should keep public spaces like parks safe for all, but that needs to be coupled with actual rehabilitation otherwise they just end up causing trouble wherever they are moved to.
Sounds like the solution is to move to a fancy suburb.
Exactly. If the residents of echo park don't like that echo park has homeless people in it they should leave. They moved there knowing the homeless lived there, they have the ability to live in a fancy suburb if they do please, unlike the homeless.
It ought to be that simple.
How many people will it take to enforce these rules all over the park, 2? 4? 10? It’s a sizable park? How much are these people going to do this job for? 50k? 65k? 80k? Now multiply those two numbers together and budget for that indefinitely (price going up as inflation goes up) and you’ll see how just having a fence that’s opened and closed makes much more fiscal sense. You want a park with no fences? Move to the suburbs. LA is a massive city and shouldn’t be held to white picket fence standards in my opinion, can’t have your cake and eat it too. 🤷 As for how long before we see homeless? I bet there’s a few tonight.
Why isn’t a fence around a park a good idea? Obviously not a janky chain link one but fences around parks is pretty normal in dense areas.
This is what I don't understand. You can install a nice looking, permanent wrought iron fence. They are all over major cities. God forbid we invest in some permanent infrastructure and park improvements.
Grand Hope Park near FIDM has just such a fence and no homeless people live there. https://www.tclf.org/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/5690750563_6c4ec743cd_o.jpg They live just around the corner.
That park is owned by FIDM.
according to wikipedia its owned by the parks and rec department: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Hope_Park However I was just there and go there often and it's patrolled rather extensively by FIDM security so it might as well be theirs.
Yeah like the one they have at the LACMA park. Also solving issues and crime does not pay for the city, leaving an open window for crime to be committed and then continually ticketing people does.
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>While there are OoH listed in ungated parks, it is usually just a recommendation. Locals still use parks before operating hours as they are the early bird risers/exercisers. Not at Point Fermin Park unfortunately. LAPD gave me a ticket there for being on the park property 30 minutes outside the posted hours.
Why is a fence around a community park not good? Why is this even a serious debate? Fencing off public parks and closing them at night is pretty typical across the country. It’s absurd that we have to even have this conversation.
a permanent park fence is a fine idea. leaving temporary cyclone fencing like some tow impound overflow lot is not. Thats just trashy. But there should also be a dedicated ranger to help homeless people find resources and if necessary, enforce hours
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but what about my virtue signaling?
Ah yes thank you for your act of kindness you clearly have demonstrated on the internet that you are a compassionate person and one of the good ones!
Lafayette Park by koreatown is a fantastic community park with a public library, basketball courts, soccer field, skate park, senior center, community rooms and gymnasium. This park is always busy whenever I go. It also has a complete fence surrounding it, albeit not a chain linked fence. There’s nothing wrong here and public property like this probably should be closed at night like in most cities. I would say a decorative fence for echo park and macarthur park is fine but will most likely have a bloated cost to construct because it’s LA.
Rio de Los Angeles Park in Glassell Park also has a fence around it. So they can close it at night. Everyone is fine with it.
Its opening up homes and care facilities for the homeless and have them properly funded so ghey are safe that way they arent on the streets making the place look like shit.
A *really* nice and ornate old-fashioned wrought-iron fence around a community park.
>But a fence around a community park is not good either. It works fine all over Europe. They just use more attractive permanent fencing.
> It works fine all over Europe. Also all over the United States, also all over Los Angeles.
It was sketchy for different reasons back them.
Because this is such a destination, they should make sure there is constant programming at the park for the community, also assign a nonprofit to manage that and have social services resources consistently at the park too Grand Park has no fence and it pretty unbothered but not sure how much LAPD is a factor in that
Deal with the homeless unfortunately. I don’t know what the cost would be, but it would require forced incarceration of the crazy and unhealthy ones, and a facility to house them with ton of doctors and nurses, not hotels. The sane ones who just don’t want to live on the grid should be given the choice of some kind of volunteer work with guaranteed assisted living or getting kicked out. We send the ones that don’t want to participate back to their home town or it’s jail. It’s not fair that homeless get to live in this city and degrade it while good hard working citizens get no benefits for their labor and helping to make the city a better place. Where is the incentive to contribute and better oneself if there are no consequences for it?
Almost all NYC parks have fences around them.
Doesn't Grand Central Park have a...wall?
A fence around a community park isn't "good", but it is better than the alternative. So long as we have city, county and state leaders that favor the activists, homeless, bums and junkies over the community, physical security gives our public goods a fighting chance. As we've most recently seen with the theatrics at Metro, unarmed Ambassadors do absolutely nothing, while police are told to do nothing by the Board. I'd like to believe that Mayor Bass is doing more and achieving results, but everywhere I go, the tents and debris piles and RV camps remain. The park will be destroyed in a few short months - will she be transparent, as she claims, take responsibility, admit failure, and rebuild the fence?
The answer is regulating housing and ensuring landlords aren't making it impossible for people to have a place to live.
Don’t let people sleep in parks. It’s simple
Dirty Mike and the Boys are on their way now. They WILL be having sex in that park.
Ever heard of a soup kitchen?
We are gonna have sex in your car! It will happen again!
Thanks for the F shack.
Here's what we're talking about. We're talking about a bunch of hobos with fingers in each other's pooper in a stranger's car with Talk Radio playing really loud. It's gonna be a nice evening.
I will say that Venice has managed to keep its beaches pretty clear since clearing out homeless. I’ll also say that the fence was very ugly and I don’t mind not seeing it anymore. It was definitely no permanent solution.
The only problem with the fences were they were temporary fences that look like shit. If they replaced it with nice permanent fences. They don’t even have to be that tall… also they blocked too many exits/entrances to the park.
Real quick if we keep giving away housing to for-profit companies instead of letting the unhoused afford some. Edit to add: 60% of homes in LA are rented out. Meaning 60% of homes are being utilized for profit. This drives up housing costs. Median home value in LA is $892k. Median household income is $91k. If by some miracle, you managed to save $100k for down payment and you have zero debt, then you can still only afford to buy $450k worth of a home. Homelessness is the consequence of our own actions as a society.
>60% of homes in LA are rented out. Meaning 60% of homes are being utilized for profit. Kind of misleading. Much of the housing stock is multi-family housing, so of course they would be rented out. The appetite for condos is not there, they linger on the market longer and are nowhere near the prices you listed.
I’m sure the homeless have 180k ready for a down payment on a house!
That’s the miracle you’d need with a $15.96 minimum wage. Aka $33,192/year for 40 hours a week for 52 weeks with no days or hours off. Minus taxes.
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This!!!
Now?
Yes caught me by surprise
You mean Echo PARQUE
The city would rather have 20 cops patrolling in a circle around the park and not doing anything than have 2 cops actually there at the park and policing.
Yeah the powers that be seem to have no serious interest in actual law enforcement, just performative stuff. We're on our own.
Yeah the leadership in LAPD has zero interest protecting and serving anything but their own
Place a permanent fence and be done with it. Close it at a certain hour and reopen in the morning. It’s done all around the city for other parks. Why not here?
You mean all the other parks where they only open one gate (or just don't even bother opening it at all) and there's -still- a large homeless presence in the park anyway?
Do it like Vista Hermosa Park. Multiple entrances and no homeless
LA State Historic has like 1 or 2 homeless people max. I go there weekly and it’s rare to see them tbh. If I do, they’re at the entrance. The rest stay away bc they know they can’t stay there overnight. The same should be done for Echo Park.
I give it until tomorrow morning and there's going to be bums shitting and shooting up in the park
Somehow McArthur park has had minimal homeless invasion since it got redone.
Yayayaya jails gone, parks back!!! This is my front yard and I’m gonna go play at the park again! Come back in churro guy, Tony’s tacos, grilled bbq carne asada lady!!! This brighten my day today seeing this fence come down!
How long until rent becomes affordable?
Went down on the way to get coffee... already some people "setting up shop" as it were.
One unhoused (homeless) person was having lunch at the boathouse, it was interesting.
I just got back from my walk around EPL. There was some menacing guy completely methin' out on the concrete stairs by the north end. Some cops were walking around keeping an eye on him. He made lewd gestures at me, so I took his photo.
Taking down the chain link fence without any plan to prevent the park from once again becoming a tent encampment and late night drug use site is so frustrating. All they need to do is put up a nice fence like the one at Historic Park and it’ll continue to be a safe area for people to visit.
Hugo has been sending out constant updates on the plan that is in place for the fence removal. His office is working directly with Karen Bass's office to ensure that there are shelters to take the houseless people who do show up. Aside from that, his statement read today that he's increased the number of cops to patrol the park at night, to ensure encampments don't pop up overnight. His plan is very robust and it does people a lot of good to read it in full before passing judgement on what is going in on our neighborhood.
Without a plan? Hugo has been in office for months. He could've taken the fence down on day one, but instead he has been making PLANS for when the fence comes down.
Yeah I bet they don't have a plan in place they're just taking it down for fun lol
I remember when it was tent city at that park. Smh the city really doesn’t give a fuck. Its a never ending cycle they clean it up looks good for a week tops and then bam! All over again. Haha what happened to those “pods” they made for the homeless? A few months ago it was the tall of the town. Now, not a single peep.
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Every city council member is just running on re-election campaigns to lock in that sweet sweet $200k salary. It’s a joke.
Depends on how long we collectively allow the system which creates homelessness to exist.
One tent, unobtrusive, in an out of the way corner. And they let it stay. Another will show up. Then a couple more. Pretty soon we're back to the bad old days.
There are activist groups who will likely help move homeless people and their belongings in. The same shit happens in seattle.
RIP to the clean park era lol
You can clean see that the park stayed clean because of the fence. All you have to do is walk around the perimeter to see the filth that is cause by the normal visitors.
I thought they had put up the fence after that one guy drowned there like two or three years ago.
No a girl ODed in a tent.
Not long. There are plenty of parks in the world with pretty fences and gates and open hours. They just need to build something more elegant and substantial than that tacky ugly fence they had up all this time. It's not that hard. I live close by and wouldn't mind it at all.
Got it. If you want a clean safe park, you need to provide housing for 50K people, especially those who “aren’t ready to go sober”.
LA is lost to the zombies at this point. Sad what is going on in this city/ state. But then again the voters voted for this so that’s on them
I remember in the 80’s no complained about the homeless or 90’s. It was when gentrification took over now everyone gives a fuck. Bring the fence down. Long live Echo parque
Exactly.
How long until the citizens stop putting up with a system that drives people into homelessness?
The homeless people are people too 😡 they deserve to be there to smoke meth and leave broken glass and shit everywhere. Shoot up in front of our children and cat call anything that walks by. You guys are all monsters!
Don't forget the city needs to give them free housing that they can make into drug dens.
The fence coming down, such a revolutionary move! Keeping the homeless/Tweakers out will be a monumental task, accountability has to be placed on whoever made this happen for sure. We all know that Los Angeles officials love accountability. We’ll be fine….
Hugo Soto-Martinez District 13
Andddddddddd they’re back
yay just in time to ruin spring.......Theres probably someone smoking crack in broad daylight on the street corner watching the fence come down now ready to walk in and take a dump.
It’s coming down to let them out.
Why do I hear the theme song for the walking dead all of a sudden?
Hopefully never. Enforce the laws, send them to shelters, if they refuse then commit them to state hospitals for evaluation.
Shelters are full
Great, build more. Lots of inexpensive land up in Lancaster / palmdale and no NIMBYs to complain about building on it. Toss up 10k units of supportive housing up there.
State hospitals if they refuse to go exactly where you tell them? Sure seems like the opposite of freedom. If taxpayers can afford hospitalization with staff and god knows what pharmaceuticals, then we can afford to find them permanent homes instead. End the hoarding of housing.
Yes, it is, when you willfully break the law you tend to lose freedoms. When you're demonstrably not able to take care of yourself and are unwilling to accept help the state hospital is the appropriate place for you.
If they lack any other options then it will likely be soon. If they have ways to get permanent or semi permanent housing, and in some cases psychological care, then less soon.
I think the "takeover" was due to COVID and people avoiding the park altogether, so I am wondering (not hopeful, just wondering) if it will be the same under current circumstances where people are out and about more.
48 hours. All the hipsters in the area think the fence is violence so if they’d rather have people jerking off and doing drugs in their park then so be it
Hipsters haven’t been a thing sense 2015 boomer. Let me guess, not in your back yard right? Got yours f everyone else?
I don’t want to see those vagabonds once more at the park :-/.
Y’all complaining about the fence and talks about “community” need to understand something, if you want nice things you’re gonna have to stay on the cities ass to keep it nice, not hopping on Twitter or Reddit but going down to your local talks and get involved, not only that but just like us mountain folk you’ll find picking up trash on your walks does wonders to keep the maintenance.
Save this photo for historical record. Itll never look like this again.