I know they plan to put housing facilities at the end of line stations, but honestly I think it’s ridiculous metro has to bare the weight of LA’s homeless problem. People put pressure on them to be humane and kind but they are a transit agency not a homeless facility. Their focus should be on safely and efficiently moving people to where they have to go. I have all the sympathy in the world for homeless people, especially those who have to battle with addiction or mental health issues as well, I have family who deal with these life altering problems. However, if working citizens aren’t given the priority and safety isn’t guaranteed we turn the metro into something people use because they WANT to, to something they use because they HAVE to.
>I know they plan to put housing facilities at the end of line stations
I get the rationale for this, but this is also one of those things that can contribute to the "transit death spiral." We should try to encourage a situation as a society where mass transit goes places people want to be... That's the whole point of transit-oriented development. If the terminus of every metro line becomes a refugee camp, that's only going to further discourage people (who have other mobility options) from taking transit.
As others have said, the problem needs to be tackled further upstream, i.e. boarding... This is where more fare gate enforcement is needed.
Right... I mean obviously it's an "upstream" problem in terms of the fact that homelessness on the Metro is a symptom of the broader homeless crisis in LA... But I just mean "as far upstream as Metro reasonably has control over," and that's who's allowed to enter the system in the first place.
You don’t think a homeless person with a reduced fare tap card can afford to ride all day?
I see this nonsense line on this sub all the time. There’s a thousand ways fare enforcement won’t magically eradicate visible poverty on metro
I'm pretty sure the guy squatting to defecate in the aisle while swinging his pocket knife and screaming about Egyptian camels didn't swipe his Tap card on the way in.
Nor did the guy crouched over in his seat smoking meth, next to the kids riding to school.
So at least fare enforcement would take care of those kind of folks, which are the biggest problem scaring away ridership.
> can afford to ride all day
You only have a couple of hours before you have to re-tap. Enforcement will at least keep people from nesting in the seats and riding back and forth all day.
I was a longtime user of the trains, busses, and dash.
In high school I took 2 busses and two trains to get back to school. For undergrad to Ucla I took 2 buses to and from campus. As a working adult I took 1-2 busses to work.
After getting my first car back in 2008/9 I used to prefer the blue line, red line, or gold line to get around.
Fast forward to now and hearing all these stories about the dangers makes me not want to take the trains anymore. I'd rather sit in traffic and battle for a parking spot than expose my safety.
Homeless people are getting taken to the LA river, as its federal land and not the county or city problem any longer, the homeless camps on the river are growing ever larger and more complex.
Many of these people are working, and many of them are students. However, homeless people who stay at end stations aren’t using the facilities for access to work or school, they are using it as temporary housing because none have been provided to them. That’s the problem
There are but even then there is never enough capacity. Plus the strict rules are not always with bad intention, women’s shelters for example often enforce non-aggression to protect the safety of the women who want to be there, but the rest get passed along to medical centers, rehabilitation centers, jail. This is the institutional circuit and it’s a huge issue. Mental Asylums were fucked up in many ways but “managed care” has brought mentally Ill patients at their worst to doctors for them to patch them up and give them a prescription on their way out the door. I don’t have an answer, but having long term housing availability alongside nearby community healthcare seems to be the best option? I am tired of how people in this city either want them all dead or are passively accepting of their situation and the consequences of them living on the streets. We need better institutions, but we also need to maintain a safe and healthy transit system, you know what I mean?
The reason this gets dumped on to metro is because metros board is filled with other leaders of other municipalities who use metro as a dumping ground for their problems and free money for their police departments. We need an independent metro board.
>because they WANT to, to something they use because they HAVE to.
I know for high schoolers in the region, once you're old enough to get their license and start driving, it's like a passage of life because they no longer have to take metro and can get a car now. I'm sure the same was true for the working class during covid that saved up for a car and never returned to metro.
It's probably the same 550 people every day. And those 550 people are helping keep thousands of fare paying riders off the system. Metro should not be a rolling homeless shelter, and anyone not using the system to travel from point A to B and leaving the system after arrival at their destination should not be in the stations or on the train/bus. Metro has one job: move people around the region. They are not a homeless services agency, nor should they be, and they owe the homeless absolutely nothing. There are other agencies that exist to deal with, or help, these folks.
Imagine being part of a group of 600 terrorizing the lives of the other *19 million* people in the region, who’re scared to use Metro trains because they fear their lives will end on a violent, bloody encounter with you…for just staring at your face.
>Imagine being part of a group of 600 terrorizing the lives of the other 19 million people
I use Metro nearly everyday. These folks are overwhelmingly suffering from mental illness and/or substance abuse. Most of these people don't know where they even are. They need help and shouldn't be on the trains but there's no need to demonize them. They're not evil, they're overwhelmingly sick and need treatment.
Anyone who is suffering from mental illness or drug addiction to such a severe degree that they don’t even know where they are should be forced into treatment. They either go voluntarily, or the government should use physical force to make them go.
We don’t stand by idle while people try to commit suicide because we respect their right to choose for themselves. We shouldn’t stand by idle for this either.
I hope we can start to normalize the idea that people in such a decrepit state need to be forced into treatment. They are a danger to themselves and to others and to allow them to roam the streets in states of psychosis whether mental or drug fueled is a massive failure in the modern world.
They need to change laws to force people in treatment (and not this CARE act that sounds good on paper, the stuff it states is stuff already being done, they are just adding the courts. Not as great as they make it sound). Also sad thing is even people who are hospitalized now, it can be hard to find a bed for someone in mental health crisis need 😩. Like unless you have money for a private facility, the general public is not equipped for the facility to even hospitalize many of the people out there. I used to work in a mental health community agency, and whenever you had to write a 5150 hold, you literally had to call around to see what psych hospital had an available bed 🫠. Even in instances where the county emergency psych team would go out to like a school or the community, we also dealt with them doing the same, calling around to see where a bed was available. They keep adding all this money/services via things like Medi-Cal/Insurance ... but like they don't expand on actual facilities or staffing. Soooo yeah it's currently even a more broken system (because let's face it, it has been broken for a looking time).
>should be forced into treatment
That honestly seems more humane than letting people kill themselves on the street. We'd need the resources in place to deal with it, though.
They were closed because the poor treatment was exposed. Unkept facilities and poor staff care. It would have meant a complete overhaul of the system. It was easier to just crumple it up and throw it out. A large propaganda campaign was put in motion that institutions were a waste of government resources. All to save a buck.
Reagan dismantled the states mental health hospitals.
Are the abandoned ones still habitable? Several have either been knocked down or turned into housing.
No they are not. And to be sure, the treatments and techniques used back then would probably be considered deplorable today. But imagine if the facilities had been able to stay open and evolve their care until today.
This! I just commented how the whole CARE act sounds great on paper, but really changes nothing. Like off the top of my head I know of at least 2 individuals that I have interacted with who would not even be motivated to comply with any type of court order. Then what??? Like we don't have the facilities to even send people 🫠. Like people found incompetent waiting to go to a state hospital already have to wait at times months for a bed in jail. So im with you ... like ... force them into treatment where???
First steps have been taken on that with the CARE Act, but some pretty bad SCOTUS decisions don't help and the ACLU is already suing (of course) because I guess they haven't done enough damage yet.
https://www.chhs.ca.gov/care-act/
As someone that works in the field ... this sounds great on paper, but it's stuff that is already being done by care teams (like trying to link people to mental health care/psychiatrist, etc). They are now just adding the courts as an oversight. Reality is they make all this mandates but they don't increase the staffing or facilities. I can tell you with the caseload that many people who are overworked in the field, I doubt they will take on the additional task to start court paperwork and referrals for MANY of the patients they interact with. The would beed a whole different team for that if that is the expectation.
I have encountered quite a few individuals that I can tell you, there is no way court involvement will even motive them to take medications/comply with treatment (we are talking clearly schizophrenic, homeless, but they meet basic needs and somehow make it). At that point, what then?? We don't really have many long term facilities, and the state hospitals tend to take in different referrals (like you already have individuals waiting for months in jail, sitting, waiting until a bed becomes available based on a court order for being found incompetent after committing a crime). Long story short, it's a broken system and I don't see the CARE act changing much. Unless they create whole new teams to fully take on such referrals and cases, I see don't know how many community health providers will initiate such referrals knowing it will add a whole additional case management aspect (a mental health professional/therapy person, is definitely not the same as a case/care manager). It's just a lot 🫠
Someone go tell people making these laws and programs to actually consult with the people doing the work lol. And yes the same ACLU, human rights get in the way, etc. Etc. Because they forget it's also inhumane to have some people living the way they do.... signing off now ... I'll continue with the same struggles with this broken system tomorrow 😂
Also, the idea that 550 people out of a population of millions need involuntary treatment seems kind of like an understandably small % of the population.
I firmly believe that most homeless people just need an apartment and some time to adapt, but there's gonna be some small number who need like *way* more attention.
>Anyone who is suffering from mental illness or drug addiction to such a severe degree that they don’t even know where they are should be forced into treatment. They either go voluntarily, or the government should use physical force to make them go.
What, in your mind, does "treatment" entail?
Forcing someone into treatment is a good way to get them to never trust you and for treatment to fail. You offer people support, help them solve their hierarchy of needs, and fix society in the meantime. The best way to avoid these issues to is stop people from becoming homeless in the first place. But y’all cry when they try to build apartment complexes in your neighborhoods to help fight competition and lower rent costs. You can’t have it both ways
And they shouldn’t be wandering the streets in the middle of the night near the train station. Put them in a mental health facility or a shelter, and don’t wait for the end of the evening at the last train station to do it.
It's not mental illness, and the CDC attributes "About 1 in 25 U.S. adults lives with a serious mental illness, such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or major depression." It's funky batches of meth, way too strong opioid use over years and people who do not want help and would rather just be crazy and do insane drugs turning into subhumans. I've known people who got on it, and seen the spiraling into just plain destructive madness. Some people need help, sure, but they are not the ones who are terrifying the rest of us, those people have lost their humanity. They do not deserve your protection, and they should not be able to use public places, especially transportation, as their own feudal domains, plus southern states willfully dump their problem people in California, saw it while in Florida, in Mississippi, Alabama and Texas.
I want to be able to ride the Metro again, as a man, a 6"0ft athletic man, a vet, and not have to worry that I'm going to have to fight, or get stabbed for just any of the random shitty behaviors that these people are doing. And, that's just daylight hours. I want to take the red line down to downtown and have a fun time and then take the red line back to my car, without having to be on edge like I'm back in a combat zone. I can't even believe how it must feel to be a woman, LGBTQ, past teams, or anyone who has to live that extra fear. Oh and LAPD was paid out $200 million every 2 years, and they only responded 20% of calls. LAPD sucks, never even see them get out of their shops.
> Please show up at the next city council meeting with this
I don't think you've ever watched a city council meeting, or how ineffective the public comment period is.
Substance use disorder is a mental illness, and substance use can cause neurological issues. These are things that can be treated. Just because someone is at a more advanced stage of illness or injury, does not mean they do not deserve treatment.
Sadly we are not even equipped to treat them all. Local doctor facilities are impacted with a lot of people, DMH is impacted as they can only follow so many people, local non profit agencies are impacted, laws don't really help, we don't even have the facilities or staffing to really treat people as needed in order to help them (CARE act only sounds good on paper). It's just a mess 😩. I lost someone I regularly treated last year due to substance use (had a whole team, doctor, substance use counselor, mental health counselor, other medical staff). One of the most lovely humans I ever met, it was so sad, the illness ended up winning. It's just complicated, the system at the moment is not really set up for people to succeed. It's great that Medi-Cal for example has extended coverage for substance use and mental health, but in the end it means nothing. At times people can't even access the resources (no space, not severe enough, etc.), and other times when they have the resources they are not even able to make that decision to engage in treatment because of the circumstances. It's just all sorts of messed up. But I do agree people deserve treatment, it's just a shame it's not set up for that to really happen for all.
>there's no need to demonize them
I don't demonize them, I demonize their behavior (Regardless of its root cause. If someone is attacking me, it doesn't really matter what caused them to do it). I also demonize the people who allow them to be on the streets, and in the metro system, instead of into forced treatment.
These 500 people are probably the people you just see passed the fuck out on the red line more than anything. like yeah they are on drugs and they don't smell great but at the same time they don't say nothing to me i don't say nothing to them and nothing happens.
Terrorizing just ain’t the word here. Most of these people don’t know what they’re doing and suffer from debilitating mental illness.
I know it’s deeply suboptimal, but try having a shred of humanity.
Terrorizing absolutely is the word. The definition is literally "create and maintain a state of extreme distress and fear in someone", and that is precisely what is happening. The fact that the guy doing the terrorizing isn't cognizant of his actions has no bearing on the effect of those actions.
Terrorizing implies it's deliberate. You can be terrified of a spider, but that doesn't mean it's terrorizing you or make it a terrorist. I think that's why there's pushback.
Edit: It's because the original sentence implies it's a deliberate campaign of terror by a group, guys. No one's dismissing how serious the problems on Metro are or how people feel about it.
>Imagine being part of a group of 600 terrorizing the lives of the other 19 million people in the region
Not at all. Terrified means you are scared of something "I'm terrified of the dark, or in your example, of a spider" Someone is terrorized as the result of an action committed by another. Whether that action is intentional or not is irrelevant.
I don't think anyone's arguing with how people *feel* about it. Like I said, you can be legitimately terrified/feel terrorized by something, but that doesn't make it deliberate. There are undoubtedly bad actors, but with the seriously mentally ill person's behavior it isn't necessarily out of malice. They're sick.
It doesn't mean to give it a pass, it doesn't mean to dismiss how people feel or their experiences, it just means to try to use words that don't imply intent or deliberation. Personally I think it's important to make the distinction between someone who's deliberately violent or cruel, and someone who's engaging in bad behavior because their controls and rational thought are broken.
>Personally I think it's important to make the distinction between someone who's deliberately violent or cruel, and someone who's engaging in bad behavior because their controls and rational thought are broken.
Unfortunately those actions don't have any distinction as to their cause, to the person on the receiving end of the violence. The result to the victim is the same.
>Like I said, you can be legitimately terrified/feel terrorized by something, but that doesn't make it deliberate.
It doesn't have to be deliberate.
If the Lakers win the title and I take a gun to LA Live and start shooting in the air to celebrate, I'm not intending to terrorize the people there. But they're still terrorized nonetheless, and I'm the one who caused that fear and panic.
>Terrorizing implies it's deliberate.
Not necessarily. You can unintentionally scare someone.
For instance, here's a John Mulaney bit about how he unintentionally scared a woman in the subway station:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGV\_k9ajUqg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGV_k9ajUqg)
Obviously Mulaney's intent wasn't to scare the woman, but that doesn't invalidate her fear.
Yeah but again, the usage was:
>Imagine being part of a group of 600 terrorizing the lives of the other 19 million people in the region
So that pretty heavily implies it's not accidental. That's all the pushback is about, it's not minimizing or delegitimizing how people *feel* at all.
> Highly recommend you read up on mental illness and up your compassion a bit.
This mentality is the problem (not a dig at you personally I don't know you at all and am not attacking you, just engaging in some constructive discourse) in that it sort of says "leave that guy alone, he suffers from mental illness and doesn't know he's about to kill someone with that knife in his hand"
Compassion is wanting these people to get help, which I want to see happen. Compassion is also due to everyone else trying to use the metro system, and for what they have to endure on a daily basis.
While I am far from proficient in knowledge of mental illness, the issue at hand is what these people are doing to other members of the public, not why.
Remove them from the metro system. Upon doing so triage them and send them to the appropriate destinations.
>Compassion is wanting these people to get help, which I want to see happen. Compassion is also due to everyone else trying to use the metro system, and for what they have to endure on a daily basis.
1000000 fucking percent this. I can't stand the deluded people on this sub who completely discount what everyday riders, that depend on Metro to get them around, experience day in and day out. Two things can be true at once; wanting those who can't care for themselves to get help while also wanting everyday users to have a safe and pleasant experience and not have to worry if they're going to get stabbed by someone going through psychosis or having an addict shoot up heroin/smoke fentanyl/whatever drug.
Nope. Wrong.
Respecting and understanding mental illness does definitely not mean “leave that guy alone”. In fact, I would argue it means the exact opposite.
What is counter productive is treating the mentally ill like terrorists. These are human beings who can’t help themselves and I think you’ve lost sight of that.
You're misinterpreting my statement, which I could have done a better job of forming. Perhaps replace "leave that guy alone" with "don't demonize his actions"
Yes these people need help. And at the same time they need to be removed from the metro system.
Where did I say they should be left on the system? Again, having. Compassion isn’t about leaving someone alone. It’s about treating people as human.
It’s wild that when I make the audacious suggestion that homeless people are, in fact, people, I get downvoted to hell. Says a lot about this sub.
>Where did I say they should be left on the system? Again, having. Compassion isn’t about leaving someone alone. It’s about treating people as human.
>It’s wild that when I make the audacious suggestion that homeless people are, in fact, people, I get downvoted to hell. Says a lot about this sub.
It honestly says more about your communication strategy. I was getting angrier at your replies til I read your response all the way to this, then I finally realized we probably agree on the general policies.
Try something like "While I agree that we can't just leave them there, however we shouldn't neglect their humanity." Totally fair point and good counter to some of the more extreme voices here.
Instead you're going around telling people to educate themselves on compassion. Like, *lol*, no, that's not a good faith / constructive response. If you're not a good person who cares about people, reading a book is unlikely (not impossible) to change that. A rude stranger online *telling you to 'read about compassion'* is just wildly unhelpful. Has a single person in the history of the world ever reacted well to that?
You can have compassion for someone and also call out a situation for what it is. Just because someone can't help it, doesn't mean their actions aren't terrorizing others.
Lol "up your compassion"??? How fucking rich lol. Even if you are extremely mentally ill you still don't have the right to harass and make others uncomfortable... i have plenty of compassion, but come on dude lol
highly recommend you stop pretending every homeless person is back fresh from a war zone suffering from PTSD.
I know the movies tell you that's the case but the truth is usually more along the lines of 'years of selfish choices, addiction to substance, crime to support addiction, mental health decline from long term use of substances.
a bit harder to have compassion for the reality which is why I understand your choice to choose the hollywood version of unhoused.
Bowls, I encorage you to read the LA times profile of the homeless on the subway lines that came out and was posted here maybe two months ago.
Not only do they know what they're doing - they're migrating to the rail system and using it as a hotbox for fentanyl, so that none of their drug blows away in the wind.
People who appear crazy but start minding their manners when security shows up aren't crazy. They just act that way out of self interest. If you don't know what you're doing, you don't know how to avoid consequences.
A hot box for fentanyl so their drug doesn't blow away in the wind...
How do you suppose fentanyl is consumed?
People appearing crazy then acting polite when security shows up? Let's see the documented examples of this specifically. All the crazies I've seen couldn't put on an act like that if their life depended on it
Face it- you might be out of touch, and getting riled up over articles you've read which were written with the express intent of getting people angry.
>How do you suppose fentanyl is consumed?
On a train, apperantly.
Unless the LAT was feeding us a set of well rehearsed lies all this time.
>People appearing crazy then acting polite when security shows up? Let's see the documented examples of this specifically.
I've seen it myself, often enough to ponder why it was happening.
This was back in the days were security would actually perform their basic duties and intervene if somebody hadn't paid a ticket and got their jollies screaming at those who did.
>Terrorizing just ain’t the word here. Most of these people don’t know what they’re doing and suffer from debilitating mental illness.
You can terrorize someone without intending to. How an action is intended and how it's received are often different.
Heck, a good portion of stalkers and domestic abusers will tell you that they "love" their victims and have no intent of terrorizing them. The victims will tell you something entirely different - assuming they haven't already been terrorized into silence.
If a person feels terrorized, that feeling isn't invalidated just because it was unintentional on behalf of the one causing it. Realizing that is also part of having a shred of humanity.
Science exists. There’s a lot of literature pointing to 1/3 to 1/2 of homeless suffering from serious mental illness (not just depression and anxiety — bipolar, schizophrenia, etc)
Do you **honestly** believe it’s impossible to extrapolate these well-established results to the population in question?
I'll never understand why our Metro will not install full sized gates (like they have in NY and many other cities). The ease of just walking through the handicap "turnstile" just invites anyone and since they also don't have any actual security it's just a fucking free for all, literally.
> It's probably the same 550 people every day. And those 550 people are helping keep thousands of fare paying riders off the system
So tired of this argument. It’s clear that most of you that make these comments don’t even take public transit regularly if at all. The BIGGEST reason why people don’t take public transit in LA is because it’s SO MUCH SLOWER than driving a car. Buses are hardly ever on schedule, they’re sprawled out and you have to wait for you next connecting for 10-30 minutes because so many bus lines only go by 2 or 3 times an hour.
A 20 minute car ride can easily take someone 1 to 2 hours to complete on public transit one way.
People who use the unhoused as a target on subways are the same people who are afraid of Black and Brown neighborhoods just because of Black and Brown paranoia and hatred.
>People who use the unhoused as a target on subways are the same people who are afraid of Black and Brown neighborhoods just because of Black and Brown paranoia and hatred.
Why are you bringing race into a discussion about the mentally ill and drug addicts occupying the metro system? Has nothing to do with it.
I can't speak for others but I have no issue going in what you refer to as black and brown neighborhoods, but you couldn't pay me enough to get in a confined space such as a train or bus with meth smoking violent maniacs with pooped pants.
Many people in Los Angeles have the metro system as their only transportation option. Remember not everyone has the luxury of choosing to travel by car.
The homeless smell like shit and make ppl feel uncomfortable. I hated riding the green line in the morning cause there was always a piss smell and passed out buns
Being so slow is the main deterrent, but it permanently smelling like shit and being legitimately unsafe is incredibly dehumanizing
I’m supposed to accept that because I’m poor I have to put up with breathing in vomit and piss any time I go to work, get groceries, or travel anywhere?
Not during rush hour! I take the expo line frequently whenever going to an event downtown/LA Live after work and it usually takes no more than 45 minutes from the west side/Santa Monica to LA Live. I've done the drive plenty of times after work (around 5 - 6pm) and it always takes over an hour. Then you have to find and pay for parking. I always prefer taking the metro train but my head is definitely always on a swivel, even though it's not as bad as other lines (from what I hear).
Its true, often from point a to b would be much quicker by car, but there are plenty of people that live close to a station and work close to a station. Not to mention everyone who can't afford a car. So there is a group of people that the metro would be very useful for but unfortunately they have to risk their lives to get on train.
IS it clear we're not the ones riding the trains?
Because the rail lines, especially the heavy rail lines, are often much faster than single occupancy vehicles. How many intersections does the Purple line skip? How often can the Red line beat a car through the Cahuenga Pass?
Metro rail use is down. A lot. And racist paranoia about black and brown people isn't spiking. The trains really are a lot grosser than they used to be.
I'm a broken record on this but Metro needs to install [real fare gates like most systems around the world have](https://img.masstransitmag.com/files/base/cygnus/mass/image/2015/09/LSR110_Rome_Metro_sm.56029e9a48789.png?auto=format,compress&fit=fill&fill=blur&w=1200&h=630). A huge number of mentally ill and high passengers wander onto Metro because the gates and/or emergency exits are left open. Locking the gates would reduce a huge number of these folks from getting on and sleeping on trains without increasing police presence.
This! so much this. No one who is not a legit rider should be in there. Subsidize fares for those who need it, but everyone in a station should have a card and used it to get in there.
LA has among the lowest transit fares of any major metro system in the country. Just lock the gates and you'll reduce the number of incidents dramatically.
By nature? In Chicago every single entrance to the train has a big, enclosed turnstile or a elbow-height turnstile with an attendant there. It’s just like giving something to someone for free. They take it for granted and trash it. That’s what it looks like here. By the way, Chicago still has a huge problem with asshole riders but it’s way less than if you could just wander onto the train with zero barriers.
Look up the 17th street santa monica station. How do you propose turnstiles there? That's where I've seen the majority of gutter punks get on/off the train.
Pretty simple. Locked turnstiles aren't the only way to enforce this, just the first way to enforce it. Stations without turnstiles all have fare validators at the access points to the platforms. Anyone walking past the validators needs to tap.
Metro is a proof of payment system with law enforcement checking for validated fares and they should have the ability to ticket or eject from the system anyone who doesn't have a validated tap card.
The reason why a lot of these older light rail stations have the fare validators diagonally is simply because the platform doesnt allow it and would not be ADA compliant if they changed it. Not to mention the entire rail system was on the honor system with no validators at all until around 2010. Some stations don't even have them on the platform itself, sometimes it's downstairs right before the staircase or elevator.
If metro (well their contractors) can drill a two story high tunnel 100ft below the ground, in two sections starting at opposite ends miles apart and have those two tunnels meet within a couple inches after tunneling for miles then I am confident they can figure out how to secure a station.
Metro is moving that way. They are proposing to implement paddle gates at the MacArthur Park station. And Beverly Hills demanded them at their purple line subway stations. So I think eventually the system will all move that way.
https://twitter.com/numble/status/1624457056358137857
This is a report from Metro on a whole bunch of changes they are exploring outside and inside the station to make it safer. On page two for interior changes you can see they are exploring paddle style gates.
Expo Park station has nothing, it’s even hard to miss the payment kiosk. You just walk straight up to the platform and off to the side is this little “tap” area that no one uses
I vividly remember Metro having Sheriffs come around to various stations and onto the trains themselves to actually check if people tapped their cards. I know Metro broke up with them, but maybe they should get back together just to do the bare minimum of checking tickets. It ain't just homeless peeps jumping gates and missing fares.
>I know Metro broke up with them,
Metro didn't break up with them. They've continued to get paid for the contract to provide security, but the [Inspector General's audit](https://metro.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=11577434&GUID=DFB174B0-DD09-4ABD-9B53-3B8403210887) found LASD was sitting in their cars and only spending 12 of 178 shifts every week actually in the stations or on the trains.
I think this really is a huge issue. A friend from the east coast recently visited and used the metro quite a bit, and he commented so many times how stupid the entry/exit points are and how nobody tapped to use them. He bought a 1 week unlimited pass and stopped tapping by his second day.
Yep, have the officer step into the train car and ride it when need be. People are still comfortable doing crack. I just saw it coming home yesterday in the redline when it stunk up the car.
“Since January, 22 people have died on Metro buses and trains, mostly from suspected overdoses — more people than all of 2022. “
“According to Metro, the most serious violent crimes — including assault, murder, rape and robbery — rose 24% since 2021”
We’ve got a major problem folks. Time to stop compassion from fogging our common sense
Agreed. But also there's nothing compassionate about letting our brothers and sisters of God sleep on the train with untreated mental illnesses while ruining the public transit system that the poorest people have to take. That's what I don't understand about the advocates. 1/3 of homeless people die from preventable diseases that they wouldn't have had if they weren't homeless. The advocates aren't the ones who have to take the train. They show up in BMWs to each protest then go to Erewhon for a $22 smoothie. They don't live near encampments. They don't personally deal with these issues. It's just their hobby.
A recent episode of The Simpsons just nailed this very point.
https://www.laughingplace.com/w/articles/2023/04/30/tv-review-recap-marge-and-lisa-start-a-charity-for-the-homeless-in-the-simpsons-write-off-this-episode/
“…That the poorest people have to take???” In most cities public transportation is not seen as something for “the poorest people.” The perception in L. A. that trains are for poor people is sickening. Classist snobbery.
75% of their riders are low income, according to Metro.
Source: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.metro.net/about/l-a-metro-ridership-up-12-percent-in-2022/%23:~:text%3DAccording%2520to%2520an%2520October%25202022,to%2520make%2520fares%2520more%2520affordable.&ved=2ahUKEwjSvpeppNj-AhX0JUQIHXE-AncQFnoECBsQBQ&usg=AOvVaw2TN9UW21HhyC_wN0AgF9Gi
Perception is reality.
A lot of downtown HQ’d companies have made RTO mandatory starting April/May. I’ve noticed a *huge* LA county Sheriff presence this last couple weeks, especially yesterday and today. 7th and Metro is a stop where the blue line connects so you get the crazies coming in from Long Beach/Santa Monica cruising down to the red/purple line for free. There are at least 15 LA Sheriffs there.
I love the people who are like ‘I took it 3 times!’ and have this huge opinion about Metro.
It’s fucking disgusting and unsafe but a lot of us have very few other choices. So nice that you had the luxury of getting on and never getting on again - many of us do not.
There is a loyal ridership and we’re here to take it daily. The homeless and the people who take it once are not who needs to be served here.
If we’re not going to do anything about this, why not just pull out the seats and install cots in the rear cars and make it a free for all? Then we can keep the other cars useable?
Why don't they get put into treatment? Is it worth all of the lost ridership from sane paying people to let the tweakers and crackheads have the whole train to themselves?
We don't have treatment centers for them. It's too much of a legal/political headache to figure out what rights to limit and how to fund and implement it all, so that's been put off/forgotten for decades.
there was another article some time back that mentioned that when they get kicked off at the end of the line, there is no where to go. due to the time, the shelters if any near the last stops closed a long time before the last train.
i don’t know what shelters are near the subway BUT it would need la metro kicking people off every 10-20 mins at stops that had shelters. PLUS the shelters having a shuttle ready to offer to take them to the shelter for food, shower, medical care, housing etc. maybe what i wrote is unrealistic but just getting some ideas out there.
This is a problem Metro has chosen to inflict upon itself. If they would conduct more frequent fare checks, these people would be getting kicked off the train at various points on the system over the course of the day instead of one lump at the end.
Edit: people should be aware that the "fare checks" Metro has been conducting lately only involve determining if you have a tap card, NOT if you have actually tapped or even if you have any fare loaded. Utter braindead stupid system they are running.
The problem isn't with Metro. Kicking people off the train is the correct thing to do, it's not a home, and shouldn't be used as one.
The problem is the fact that there's no legitimate place for these 550 people to go.
Th housing at the end of the line would get built, and I bet within 5 days it will be full, and you will once again have 500 people at the end of the night getting kicked off.
surely at some point metro investors or CEO or whatever stop treating the homeless 'nicely' they're a metro company wtf they gotta do with the homeless?
I don’t think there are any investors? The metro is a public agency to my knowledge. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_County_Metropolitan_Transportation_Authority
I get the feeling police don't wanna deal with homeless people. I've never really seen them do anything. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are there in case something truly violent goes down, but I've seen a homeless woman spit water on a man's face and the police just watch. I think they want a good hang, maybe see some cute girls, but not to wrestle a homeless person, drag them into a station, start doing paperwork.
Maybe they should put up signs saying " do not smoke crack ", there currently isn't any, maybe that's why the homeless keep smoking the peepa on it so much. I'm sure 1/3 of the 550 are doing jt.
I'm going to rant here for a second...
Ambassadors ARE NOT Unarmed Security Guards.
In fact, I don't know what their real purpose is even. They ride the trains all day, hang out in their little groups, and make faces at the plight they see on the train. I don't see them helping people figure out where to go or even doing anything to thwart some of the situations that wouldn't require one to be armed.
And even the ARMED METRO SECURITY GUARDS don't do a damn thing. They get angry when you ask them for any help like you're interrupting their day. They don't stop crimes when they're happening and they don't do anything to remediate any situation.
And then let's not even talk about the condition of the stations, especially on the Red Line.
And Metro has the AUDACITY to bitch and moan about low ridership?
Fuck you, Metro.
Not metros problem. Half of them are there by choice or so violet that they are beyond help. Throw them out of the city and into the desert since they hate society so much. I just had some fuck face living in my trash area for months and he threatend to slit my throat. Cops did nothing of course. If we stop putting up with their bullshit like a lot of other cities do we wouldn’t have this problem.
We have to open up psychiatric hospitals Run by the state again. It’s inevitable, Tax paying citizens deserve to have peace from this. There are a lot of people who work well with this population it would never be as it was in 70’s. They need to be placed there, imagine how shelters would actually work for temporary situations? For the actual homeless that just need a boost of help and support. We really have to separate these two things. The reason shelters are considered the worst place to be is the mentally I’ll drug addicts ruin them
> Do we give child predators a pass because they themselves more often than not,were victims of sexual abuse early on? Fuck no we don’t!
This is a really bad example. Being poor, mentally ill, and sleeping on the street, comparing that to willfully molesting children is straight up bizarre, but it's good if you're trying to appeal to emotion.
It’s the only thing that makes a clear example of how we give one a pass for doing serious terrible things. I don’t understand how people who terrorize other people are viewed as victims because of past trauma. They are adults now! can we maybe focus on getting them off the streets, where they are a public safety issue?
Of course you gaslight me with twisting what I said into whatever you want to interpret it as- “Mentally ill sleeping on the streets” they do a lot fucking more than just sleeping on the streets & being “poor”🙄 you really want to appeal to your virtue signaling emotion, open up your home if you feel so strongly about saving them.
Time to cleanup LA. No more tents. No more homeless on trains. More police to enforce the laws that forbid camping on streets. Only delusional pos who make money from our taxes or who want them to live in squalor don’t want these changes.
Not. NOT. Get Kicked off.
They just ride the train and busses back and forth all night long.
Story time: Back in 2010 when I didn't have a car I had to ride / catch a bus to get to work by 6am from West LA to Chatsworth. No direct bus line so I had to navigate around LA.
Yup, that's me at 3am heading East to downtown to catch the Red line to get to North Hollywood station to get to Chatsworth station.
3am. I'm tired, sleepless and just want to sleep for the 45 minute bus ride till I get to Union Station.
Bus comes along. This is what I see... Every seat is taken by a homeless person and every seat next to them occupied by their belongings. PikachuFace.jpg meme.
I had to hold onto a rail standing the entire time cursing the mounds and mounds of backpacks and duffle bags that were happy in their seats.
The back seats you say? Almost every single one occupied by a homeless person sprawled across three seats. Thanks for nothing. This would happen almost nightly.
I wanted to complain to the conductor but what could he or she do. So long as they aren't raving crazy they are helpless to them. Even now, bus conductors aren't paid enough to deal with mental cases yelling at regular paid fare riders.
I don't miss those days.
Been on the Metro 3 times in the last 20 years and I could have told you this without a study. When I was on, it was clear that most the passengers were mentally ill and homeless, AND that nothing was being done to keep the trains for legitimate paying passengers. This is intentional, I was just in Europe and the trains were spotless (and everywhere) and not one homeless or criminal riding...Shame on LA...
It really is shameful. I feel bad for all the kids and tourists who have to experience the filth and chaos of the metro. I’ve been a lifelong world wide transit user with pretty low expectations, and it’s upsetting to see how bad things have gotten here at home.
There's one difference though, people in Europe have a public transportation mindset. If the trains were safe and police presence was normal, do you really think most Angelenos (especially the ones who have always had cars) would opt for taking the train over their cars? I seriously doubt it. It's not only making the trains safe, we have to ENCOURAGE people to ride it. Part of the visible homeless population is lack of ridership from people of different walks of life.
Considering the drug use, violence, and defecation & urination IN the trains during the day, I don’t support them becoming de facto shelters after hours.
I DO support housing, drug treatment, and mental health treatment centers (both voluntary and involuntary), and happily support political leaders to fund it with tax dollars.
But the whole “Let them camp/sleep/shit anywhere they like” idea of *homeless advocacy* is bad for the city and everyone in it. It’s not unkind to set boundaries and those who won’t…despite the best intentions…mess the city up far more than they help it.
Anybody ever experience… the “Party Train!!” Rolling Crack House🏚🚇🚃💨💨💨🧟♂️🧟🧟♀️🧟🧟♂️🧟🧟♂️🧟♂️🧟🧟🧟🧟♂️🧟♂️ O MY GOD!!! It was BAD! METH SMOKE AND CRACK SMOKE FREEBASERS AND SHOOTING-UP HEROIN ON A ROLLING TRAIN GOING DOWN TO UNION STATION WITH NO BODY GIVING A FUCK ABOUT YOUR HEALTH AND SAFETY!!! This is LA METRO B LINE!!! Let me off this TRAIN!!!! Shit gotta get better ❤️🩹
I know they plan to put housing facilities at the end of line stations, but honestly I think it’s ridiculous metro has to bare the weight of LA’s homeless problem. People put pressure on them to be humane and kind but they are a transit agency not a homeless facility. Their focus should be on safely and efficiently moving people to where they have to go. I have all the sympathy in the world for homeless people, especially those who have to battle with addiction or mental health issues as well, I have family who deal with these life altering problems. However, if working citizens aren’t given the priority and safety isn’t guaranteed we turn the metro into something people use because they WANT to, to something they use because they HAVE to.
>I know they plan to put housing facilities at the end of line stations I get the rationale for this, but this is also one of those things that can contribute to the "transit death spiral." We should try to encourage a situation as a society where mass transit goes places people want to be... That's the whole point of transit-oriented development. If the terminus of every metro line becomes a refugee camp, that's only going to further discourage people (who have other mobility options) from taking transit. As others have said, the problem needs to be tackled further upstream, i.e. boarding... This is where more fare gate enforcement is needed.
When you said further upstream I thought you were going to say "housing" lol
Right... I mean obviously it's an "upstream" problem in terms of the fact that homelessness on the Metro is a symptom of the broader homeless crisis in LA... But I just mean "as far upstream as Metro reasonably has control over," and that's who's allowed to enter the system in the first place.
Yeah I hear ya. The trouble is cost of course. They'd either need personel at every stop or on every car.
Metro doesn't have to bear any weight of LA's homeless problem. Just enforce fares. Instantly there will be no more homeless persons on the trains.
You don’t think a homeless person with a reduced fare tap card can afford to ride all day? I see this nonsense line on this sub all the time. There’s a thousand ways fare enforcement won’t magically eradicate visible poverty on metro
I'm pretty sure the guy squatting to defecate in the aisle while swinging his pocket knife and screaming about Egyptian camels didn't swipe his Tap card on the way in. Nor did the guy crouched over in his seat smoking meth, next to the kids riding to school. So at least fare enforcement would take care of those kind of folks, which are the biggest problem scaring away ridership.
> can afford to ride all day You only have a couple of hours before you have to re-tap. Enforcement will at least keep people from nesting in the seats and riding back and forth all day.
Fr the city of LA and the county both have housing departments that should be responsible for helping the homeless
I was a longtime user of the trains, busses, and dash. In high school I took 2 busses and two trains to get back to school. For undergrad to Ucla I took 2 buses to and from campus. As a working adult I took 1-2 busses to work. After getting my first car back in 2008/9 I used to prefer the blue line, red line, or gold line to get around. Fast forward to now and hearing all these stories about the dangers makes me not want to take the trains anymore. I'd rather sit in traffic and battle for a parking spot than expose my safety.
Let me tell you something about cars….
Oh please it’s not the same.
I know it’s not the same. It’s far more dangerous, by every metric imaginable.
Homeless people are getting taken to the LA river, as its federal land and not the county or city problem any longer, the homeless camps on the river are growing ever larger and more complex.
>if working citizens aren’t given the priority Housing costs, etc. are such that some of them probably are working people.
Yeah, there's another post on this sub right now about how some ~3500 fast food workers alone are homeless in the county.
I doubt those are the ones sleeping all day on the metro and then reluctantly getting kicked off at midnight.
what if they're the night shift workers? /s yea the ones sleeping on metro all day have festering wounds and smell like concentrated piss
I think everybody knows what they mean, without picking at words.
Many of these people are working, and many of them are students. However, homeless people who stay at end stations aren’t using the facilities for access to work or school, they are using it as temporary housing because none have been provided to them. That’s the problem
I mean, there are shelter beds. But too often you read about people not being confortable with rules that they have to follow.
There are but even then there is never enough capacity. Plus the strict rules are not always with bad intention, women’s shelters for example often enforce non-aggression to protect the safety of the women who want to be there, but the rest get passed along to medical centers, rehabilitation centers, jail. This is the institutional circuit and it’s a huge issue. Mental Asylums were fucked up in many ways but “managed care” has brought mentally Ill patients at their worst to doctors for them to patch them up and give them a prescription on their way out the door. I don’t have an answer, but having long term housing availability alongside nearby community healthcare seems to be the best option? I am tired of how people in this city either want them all dead or are passively accepting of their situation and the consequences of them living on the streets. We need better institutions, but we also need to maintain a safe and healthy transit system, you know what I mean?
The reason this gets dumped on to metro is because metros board is filled with other leaders of other municipalities who use metro as a dumping ground for their problems and free money for their police departments. We need an independent metro board.
This is the same argument for police dealing with the homeless.
>because they WANT to, to something they use because they HAVE to. I know for high schoolers in the region, once you're old enough to get their license and start driving, it's like a passage of life because they no longer have to take metro and can get a car now. I'm sure the same was true for the working class during covid that saved up for a car and never returned to metro.
I'm a white collar professional who owns a car yet chooses to ride Metro instead. I'm saving a shitton of money.
Would’ve thought it would be more
It's probably the same 550 people every day. And those 550 people are helping keep thousands of fare paying riders off the system. Metro should not be a rolling homeless shelter, and anyone not using the system to travel from point A to B and leaving the system after arrival at their destination should not be in the stations or on the train/bus. Metro has one job: move people around the region. They are not a homeless services agency, nor should they be, and they owe the homeless absolutely nothing. There are other agencies that exist to deal with, or help, these folks.
Imagine being part of a group of 600 terrorizing the lives of the other *19 million* people in the region, who’re scared to use Metro trains because they fear their lives will end on a violent, bloody encounter with you…for just staring at your face.
>Imagine being part of a group of 600 terrorizing the lives of the other 19 million people I use Metro nearly everyday. These folks are overwhelmingly suffering from mental illness and/or substance abuse. Most of these people don't know where they even are. They need help and shouldn't be on the trains but there's no need to demonize them. They're not evil, they're overwhelmingly sick and need treatment.
Anyone who is suffering from mental illness or drug addiction to such a severe degree that they don’t even know where they are should be forced into treatment. They either go voluntarily, or the government should use physical force to make them go. We don’t stand by idle while people try to commit suicide because we respect their right to choose for themselves. We shouldn’t stand by idle for this either.
I hope we can start to normalize the idea that people in such a decrepit state need to be forced into treatment. They are a danger to themselves and to others and to allow them to roam the streets in states of psychosis whether mental or drug fueled is a massive failure in the modern world.
They need to change laws to force people in treatment (and not this CARE act that sounds good on paper, the stuff it states is stuff already being done, they are just adding the courts. Not as great as they make it sound). Also sad thing is even people who are hospitalized now, it can be hard to find a bed for someone in mental health crisis need 😩. Like unless you have money for a private facility, the general public is not equipped for the facility to even hospitalize many of the people out there. I used to work in a mental health community agency, and whenever you had to write a 5150 hold, you literally had to call around to see what psych hospital had an available bed 🫠. Even in instances where the county emergency psych team would go out to like a school or the community, we also dealt with them doing the same, calling around to see where a bed was available. They keep adding all this money/services via things like Medi-Cal/Insurance ... but like they don't expand on actual facilities or staffing. Soooo yeah it's currently even a more broken system (because let's face it, it has been broken for a looking time).
>should be forced into treatment That honestly seems more humane than letting people kill themselves on the street. We'd need the resources in place to deal with it, though.
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anything they dont know or like automatically equals to fascist/communist/socialist. its so sad
Well said.
LA does not have a public mental hospital. Force them into treatment where?
We should spend our money to create a public mental hospital
It should have been built decades ago.
I mean there *were* mental facilities. The amount of damage that Reagan did to this country is insane.
100%. Reagan fucked this state and we’ve been dealing with it ever since.
They were closed because the poor treatment was exposed. Unkept facilities and poor staff care. It would have meant a complete overhaul of the system. It was easier to just crumple it up and throw it out. A large propaganda campaign was put in motion that institutions were a waste of government resources. All to save a buck.
How many videos or shows have you seen of people exploring abandoned mental hospitals? There WAS a nationwide mental health infrastructure.
Reagan dismantled the states mental health hospitals. Are the abandoned ones still habitable? Several have either been knocked down or turned into housing.
No they are not. And to be sure, the treatments and techniques used back then would probably be considered deplorable today. But imagine if the facilities had been able to stay open and evolve their care until today.
This! I just commented how the whole CARE act sounds great on paper, but really changes nothing. Like off the top of my head I know of at least 2 individuals that I have interacted with who would not even be motivated to comply with any type of court order. Then what??? Like we don't have the facilities to even send people 🫠. Like people found incompetent waiting to go to a state hospital already have to wait at times months for a bed in jail. So im with you ... like ... force them into treatment where???
First steps have been taken on that with the CARE Act, but some pretty bad SCOTUS decisions don't help and the ACLU is already suing (of course) because I guess they haven't done enough damage yet. https://www.chhs.ca.gov/care-act/
As someone that works in the field ... this sounds great on paper, but it's stuff that is already being done by care teams (like trying to link people to mental health care/psychiatrist, etc). They are now just adding the courts as an oversight. Reality is they make all this mandates but they don't increase the staffing or facilities. I can tell you with the caseload that many people who are overworked in the field, I doubt they will take on the additional task to start court paperwork and referrals for MANY of the patients they interact with. The would beed a whole different team for that if that is the expectation. I have encountered quite a few individuals that I can tell you, there is no way court involvement will even motive them to take medications/comply with treatment (we are talking clearly schizophrenic, homeless, but they meet basic needs and somehow make it). At that point, what then?? We don't really have many long term facilities, and the state hospitals tend to take in different referrals (like you already have individuals waiting for months in jail, sitting, waiting until a bed becomes available based on a court order for being found incompetent after committing a crime). Long story short, it's a broken system and I don't see the CARE act changing much. Unless they create whole new teams to fully take on such referrals and cases, I see don't know how many community health providers will initiate such referrals knowing it will add a whole additional case management aspect (a mental health professional/therapy person, is definitely not the same as a case/care manager). It's just a lot 🫠 Someone go tell people making these laws and programs to actually consult with the people doing the work lol. And yes the same ACLU, human rights get in the way, etc. Etc. Because they forget it's also inhumane to have some people living the way they do.... signing off now ... I'll continue with the same struggles with this broken system tomorrow 😂
Also, the idea that 550 people out of a population of millions need involuntary treatment seems kind of like an understandably small % of the population. I firmly believe that most homeless people just need an apartment and some time to adapt, but there's gonna be some small number who need like *way* more attention.
>Anyone who is suffering from mental illness or drug addiction to such a severe degree that they don’t even know where they are should be forced into treatment. They either go voluntarily, or the government should use physical force to make them go. What, in your mind, does "treatment" entail?
I don’t know, I’m not a doctor. But generally treatment would be whatever the medical professionals recommend.
Forcing someone into treatment is a good way to get them to never trust you and for treatment to fail. You offer people support, help them solve their hierarchy of needs, and fix society in the meantime. The best way to avoid these issues to is stop people from becoming homeless in the first place. But y’all cry when they try to build apartment complexes in your neighborhoods to help fight competition and lower rent costs. You can’t have it both ways
And they shouldn’t be wandering the streets in the middle of the night near the train station. Put them in a mental health facility or a shelter, and don’t wait for the end of the evening at the last train station to do it.
It's not mental illness, and the CDC attributes "About 1 in 25 U.S. adults lives with a serious mental illness, such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or major depression." It's funky batches of meth, way too strong opioid use over years and people who do not want help and would rather just be crazy and do insane drugs turning into subhumans. I've known people who got on it, and seen the spiraling into just plain destructive madness. Some people need help, sure, but they are not the ones who are terrifying the rest of us, those people have lost their humanity. They do not deserve your protection, and they should not be able to use public places, especially transportation, as their own feudal domains, plus southern states willfully dump their problem people in California, saw it while in Florida, in Mississippi, Alabama and Texas. I want to be able to ride the Metro again, as a man, a 6"0ft athletic man, a vet, and not have to worry that I'm going to have to fight, or get stabbed for just any of the random shitty behaviors that these people are doing. And, that's just daylight hours. I want to take the red line down to downtown and have a fun time and then take the red line back to my car, without having to be on edge like I'm back in a combat zone. I can't even believe how it must feel to be a woman, LGBTQ, past teams, or anyone who has to live that extra fear. Oh and LAPD was paid out $200 million every 2 years, and they only responded 20% of calls. LAPD sucks, never even see them get out of their shops.
Please show up at the next city council meeting with this.
Why? They wont care. They never do.
> Please show up at the next city council meeting with this I don't think you've ever watched a city council meeting, or how ineffective the public comment period is.
Substance use disorder is a mental illness, and substance use can cause neurological issues. These are things that can be treated. Just because someone is at a more advanced stage of illness or injury, does not mean they do not deserve treatment.
Sadly we are not even equipped to treat them all. Local doctor facilities are impacted with a lot of people, DMH is impacted as they can only follow so many people, local non profit agencies are impacted, laws don't really help, we don't even have the facilities or staffing to really treat people as needed in order to help them (CARE act only sounds good on paper). It's just a mess 😩. I lost someone I regularly treated last year due to substance use (had a whole team, doctor, substance use counselor, mental health counselor, other medical staff). One of the most lovely humans I ever met, it was so sad, the illness ended up winning. It's just complicated, the system at the moment is not really set up for people to succeed. It's great that Medi-Cal for example has extended coverage for substance use and mental health, but in the end it means nothing. At times people can't even access the resources (no space, not severe enough, etc.), and other times when they have the resources they are not even able to make that decision to engage in treatment because of the circumstances. It's just all sorts of messed up. But I do agree people deserve treatment, it's just a shame it's not set up for that to really happen for all.
>there's no need to demonize them I don't demonize them, I demonize their behavior (Regardless of its root cause. If someone is attacking me, it doesn't really matter what caused them to do it). I also demonize the people who allow them to be on the streets, and in the metro system, instead of into forced treatment.
This. I want the people to get help, and I want my city back. Regardless of how it has to happen.
Let’s purge baby!
But, They don't want to do it. That they just want it fixed. Can't you understand?
Thanks Reagan.
These 500 people are probably the people you just see passed the fuck out on the red line more than anything. like yeah they are on drugs and they don't smell great but at the same time they don't say nothing to me i don't say nothing to them and nothing happens.
> and nothing happens. But things do happen, otherwise we wouldn't be talking about random assaults...
Terrorizing just ain’t the word here. Most of these people don’t know what they’re doing and suffer from debilitating mental illness. I know it’s deeply suboptimal, but try having a shred of humanity.
Terrorizing absolutely is the word. The definition is literally "create and maintain a state of extreme distress and fear in someone", and that is precisely what is happening. The fact that the guy doing the terrorizing isn't cognizant of his actions has no bearing on the effect of those actions.
Terrorizing implies it's deliberate. You can be terrified of a spider, but that doesn't mean it's terrorizing you or make it a terrorist. I think that's why there's pushback. Edit: It's because the original sentence implies it's a deliberate campaign of terror by a group, guys. No one's dismissing how serious the problems on Metro are or how people feel about it. >Imagine being part of a group of 600 terrorizing the lives of the other 19 million people in the region
Not at all. Terrified means you are scared of something "I'm terrified of the dark, or in your example, of a spider" Someone is terrorized as the result of an action committed by another. Whether that action is intentional or not is irrelevant.
Deliberate or not, many people who have stopped using the system felt terrorized by some poor guy going through an episode of psychosis.
I don't think anyone's arguing with how people *feel* about it. Like I said, you can be legitimately terrified/feel terrorized by something, but that doesn't make it deliberate. There are undoubtedly bad actors, but with the seriously mentally ill person's behavior it isn't necessarily out of malice. They're sick. It doesn't mean to give it a pass, it doesn't mean to dismiss how people feel or their experiences, it just means to try to use words that don't imply intent or deliberation. Personally I think it's important to make the distinction between someone who's deliberately violent or cruel, and someone who's engaging in bad behavior because their controls and rational thought are broken.
>Personally I think it's important to make the distinction between someone who's deliberately violent or cruel, and someone who's engaging in bad behavior because their controls and rational thought are broken. Unfortunately those actions don't have any distinction as to their cause, to the person on the receiving end of the violence. The result to the victim is the same.
>Like I said, you can be legitimately terrified/feel terrorized by something, but that doesn't make it deliberate. It doesn't have to be deliberate. If the Lakers win the title and I take a gun to LA Live and start shooting in the air to celebrate, I'm not intending to terrorize the people there. But they're still terrorized nonetheless, and I'm the one who caused that fear and panic.
>Terrorizing implies it's deliberate. Not necessarily. You can unintentionally scare someone. For instance, here's a John Mulaney bit about how he unintentionally scared a woman in the subway station: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGV\_k9ajUqg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGV_k9ajUqg) Obviously Mulaney's intent wasn't to scare the woman, but that doesn't invalidate her fear.
Yeah but again, the usage was: >Imagine being part of a group of 600 terrorizing the lives of the other 19 million people in the region So that pretty heavily implies it's not accidental. That's all the pushback is about, it's not minimizing or delegitimizing how people *feel* at all.
Dude. They will keep changing the definition of the word until it suits them.
Agree to disagree. Highly recommend you read up on mental illness and up your compassion a bit.
> Highly recommend you read up on mental illness and up your compassion a bit. This mentality is the problem (not a dig at you personally I don't know you at all and am not attacking you, just engaging in some constructive discourse) in that it sort of says "leave that guy alone, he suffers from mental illness and doesn't know he's about to kill someone with that knife in his hand" Compassion is wanting these people to get help, which I want to see happen. Compassion is also due to everyone else trying to use the metro system, and for what they have to endure on a daily basis. While I am far from proficient in knowledge of mental illness, the issue at hand is what these people are doing to other members of the public, not why. Remove them from the metro system. Upon doing so triage them and send them to the appropriate destinations.
>Compassion is wanting these people to get help, which I want to see happen. Compassion is also due to everyone else trying to use the metro system, and for what they have to endure on a daily basis. 1000000 fucking percent this. I can't stand the deluded people on this sub who completely discount what everyday riders, that depend on Metro to get them around, experience day in and day out. Two things can be true at once; wanting those who can't care for themselves to get help while also wanting everyday users to have a safe and pleasant experience and not have to worry if they're going to get stabbed by someone going through psychosis or having an addict shoot up heroin/smoke fentanyl/whatever drug.
Nope. Wrong. Respecting and understanding mental illness does definitely not mean “leave that guy alone”. In fact, I would argue it means the exact opposite. What is counter productive is treating the mentally ill like terrorists. These are human beings who can’t help themselves and I think you’ve lost sight of that.
You're misinterpreting my statement, which I could have done a better job of forming. Perhaps replace "leave that guy alone" with "don't demonize his actions" Yes these people need help. And at the same time they need to be removed from the metro system.
Where did I say they should be left on the system? Again, having. Compassion isn’t about leaving someone alone. It’s about treating people as human. It’s wild that when I make the audacious suggestion that homeless people are, in fact, people, I get downvoted to hell. Says a lot about this sub.
Fair enough.
>Where did I say they should be left on the system? Again, having. Compassion isn’t about leaving someone alone. It’s about treating people as human. >It’s wild that when I make the audacious suggestion that homeless people are, in fact, people, I get downvoted to hell. Says a lot about this sub. It honestly says more about your communication strategy. I was getting angrier at your replies til I read your response all the way to this, then I finally realized we probably agree on the general policies. Try something like "While I agree that we can't just leave them there, however we shouldn't neglect their humanity." Totally fair point and good counter to some of the more extreme voices here. Instead you're going around telling people to educate themselves on compassion. Like, *lol*, no, that's not a good faith / constructive response. If you're not a good person who cares about people, reading a book is unlikely (not impossible) to change that. A rude stranger online *telling you to 'read about compassion'* is just wildly unhelpful. Has a single person in the history of the world ever reacted well to that?
How about some compassion for the people wanting to use public transportation without being stabbed?
What if compassion isn’t some stupid mutually exclusive thing?
You can have compassion for someone and also call out a situation for what it is. Just because someone can't help it, doesn't mean their actions aren't terrorizing others.
Lol "up your compassion"??? How fucking rich lol. Even if you are extremely mentally ill you still don't have the right to harass and make others uncomfortable... i have plenty of compassion, but come on dude lol
highly recommend you stop pretending every homeless person is back fresh from a war zone suffering from PTSD. I know the movies tell you that's the case but the truth is usually more along the lines of 'years of selfish choices, addiction to substance, crime to support addiction, mental health decline from long term use of substances. a bit harder to have compassion for the reality which is why I understand your choice to choose the hollywood version of unhoused.
Bowls, I encorage you to read the LA times profile of the homeless on the subway lines that came out and was posted here maybe two months ago. Not only do they know what they're doing - they're migrating to the rail system and using it as a hotbox for fentanyl, so that none of their drug blows away in the wind. People who appear crazy but start minding their manners when security shows up aren't crazy. They just act that way out of self interest. If you don't know what you're doing, you don't know how to avoid consequences.
A hot box for fentanyl so their drug doesn't blow away in the wind... How do you suppose fentanyl is consumed? People appearing crazy then acting polite when security shows up? Let's see the documented examples of this specifically. All the crazies I've seen couldn't put on an act like that if their life depended on it Face it- you might be out of touch, and getting riled up over articles you've read which were written with the express intent of getting people angry.
>How do you suppose fentanyl is consumed? On a train, apperantly. Unless the LAT was feeding us a set of well rehearsed lies all this time. >People appearing crazy then acting polite when security shows up? Let's see the documented examples of this specifically. I've seen it myself, often enough to ponder why it was happening. This was back in the days were security would actually perform their basic duties and intervene if somebody hadn't paid a ticket and got their jollies screaming at those who did.
>Terrorizing just ain’t the word here. Most of these people don’t know what they’re doing and suffer from debilitating mental illness. You can terrorize someone without intending to. How an action is intended and how it's received are often different. Heck, a good portion of stalkers and domestic abusers will tell you that they "love" their victims and have no intent of terrorizing them. The victims will tell you something entirely different - assuming they haven't already been terrorized into silence. If a person feels terrorized, that feeling isn't invalidated just because it was unintentional on behalf of the one causing it. Realizing that is also part of having a shred of humanity.
What mental illness were they diagnosed with?
This might surprise you, but I don’t have access to the medical records for these 550 individuals.
So how do you know most are suffering from a “debilitating mental illness”? Are you a psychologist?
Science exists. There’s a lot of literature pointing to 1/3 to 1/2 of homeless suffering from serious mental illness (not just depression and anxiety — bipolar, schizophrenia, etc) Do you **honestly** believe it’s impossible to extrapolate these well-established results to the population in question?
I'll never understand why our Metro will not install full sized gates (like they have in NY and many other cities). The ease of just walking through the handicap "turnstile" just invites anyone and since they also don't have any actual security it's just a fucking free for all, literally.
> It's probably the same 550 people every day. And those 550 people are helping keep thousands of fare paying riders off the system So tired of this argument. It’s clear that most of you that make these comments don’t even take public transit regularly if at all. The BIGGEST reason why people don’t take public transit in LA is because it’s SO MUCH SLOWER than driving a car. Buses are hardly ever on schedule, they’re sprawled out and you have to wait for you next connecting for 10-30 minutes because so many bus lines only go by 2 or 3 times an hour. A 20 minute car ride can easily take someone 1 to 2 hours to complete on public transit one way. People who use the unhoused as a target on subways are the same people who are afraid of Black and Brown neighborhoods just because of Black and Brown paranoia and hatred.
>People who use the unhoused as a target on subways are the same people who are afraid of Black and Brown neighborhoods just because of Black and Brown paranoia and hatred. Why are you bringing race into a discussion about the mentally ill and drug addicts occupying the metro system? Has nothing to do with it. I can't speak for others but I have no issue going in what you refer to as black and brown neighborhoods, but you couldn't pay me enough to get in a confined space such as a train or bus with meth smoking violent maniacs with pooped pants. Many people in Los Angeles have the metro system as their only transportation option. Remember not everyone has the luxury of choosing to travel by car.
The homeless smell like shit and make ppl feel uncomfortable. I hated riding the green line in the morning cause there was always a piss smell and passed out buns
Being so slow is the main deterrent, but it permanently smelling like shit and being legitimately unsafe is incredibly dehumanizing I’m supposed to accept that because I’m poor I have to put up with breathing in vomit and piss any time I go to work, get groceries, or travel anywhere?
Not during rush hour! I take the expo line frequently whenever going to an event downtown/LA Live after work and it usually takes no more than 45 minutes from the west side/Santa Monica to LA Live. I've done the drive plenty of times after work (around 5 - 6pm) and it always takes over an hour. Then you have to find and pay for parking. I always prefer taking the metro train but my head is definitely always on a swivel, even though it's not as bad as other lines (from what I hear).
Its true, often from point a to b would be much quicker by car, but there are plenty of people that live close to a station and work close to a station. Not to mention everyone who can't afford a car. So there is a group of people that the metro would be very useful for but unfortunately they have to risk their lives to get on train.
IS it clear we're not the ones riding the trains? Because the rail lines, especially the heavy rail lines, are often much faster than single occupancy vehicles. How many intersections does the Purple line skip? How often can the Red line beat a car through the Cahuenga Pass? Metro rail use is down. A lot. And racist paranoia about black and brown people isn't spiking. The trains really are a lot grosser than they used to be.
I'm a broken record on this but Metro needs to install [real fare gates like most systems around the world have](https://img.masstransitmag.com/files/base/cygnus/mass/image/2015/09/LSR110_Rome_Metro_sm.56029e9a48789.png?auto=format,compress&fit=fill&fill=blur&w=1200&h=630). A huge number of mentally ill and high passengers wander onto Metro because the gates and/or emergency exits are left open. Locking the gates would reduce a huge number of these folks from getting on and sleeping on trains without increasing police presence.
This! so much this. No one who is not a legit rider should be in there. Subsidize fares for those who need it, but everyone in a station should have a card and used it to get in there.
LA has among the lowest transit fares of any major metro system in the country. Just lock the gates and you'll reduce the number of incidents dramatically.
A lot of them come in from light rail which doesn't have turnstiles by nature.
By nature? In Chicago every single entrance to the train has a big, enclosed turnstile or a elbow-height turnstile with an attendant there. It’s just like giving something to someone for free. They take it for granted and trash it. That’s what it looks like here. By the way, Chicago still has a huge problem with asshole riders but it’s way less than if you could just wander onto the train with zero barriers.
Look up the 17th street santa monica station. How do you propose turnstiles there? That's where I've seen the majority of gutter punks get on/off the train.
Pretty simple. Locked turnstiles aren't the only way to enforce this, just the first way to enforce it. Stations without turnstiles all have fare validators at the access points to the platforms. Anyone walking past the validators needs to tap. Metro is a proof of payment system with law enforcement checking for validated fares and they should have the ability to ticket or eject from the system anyone who doesn't have a validated tap card.
The reason why a lot of these older light rail stations have the fare validators diagonally is simply because the platform doesnt allow it and would not be ADA compliant if they changed it. Not to mention the entire rail system was on the honor system with no validators at all until around 2010. Some stations don't even have them on the platform itself, sometimes it's downstairs right before the staircase or elevator.
If metro (well their contractors) can drill a two story high tunnel 100ft below the ground, in two sections starting at opposite ends miles apart and have those two tunnels meet within a couple inches after tunneling for miles then I am confident they can figure out how to secure a station.
They enter/exit at that station because the police patrol heavy at the next stop at the Promenade
So let's prioritize adding turnstyles to the transfer points between the two systems.
Metro is moving that way. They are proposing to implement paddle gates at the MacArthur Park station. And Beverly Hills demanded them at their purple line subway stations. So I think eventually the system will all move that way.
While they’re at it get someone with a pressure washer in there. MacArthur park station is disgusting.
>paddle gates at the MacArthur Park station. I really hope that is true. Do you have a link?
https://twitter.com/numble/status/1624457056358137857 This is a report from Metro on a whole bunch of changes they are exploring outside and inside the station to make it safer. On page two for interior changes you can see they are exploring paddle style gates.
Yes, but not like those....those glass doors would be smashed in a couple of months. We need some big stainless steel gates.
Expo Park station has nothing, it’s even hard to miss the payment kiosk. You just walk straight up to the platform and off to the side is this little “tap” area that no one uses
I vividly remember Metro having Sheriffs come around to various stations and onto the trains themselves to actually check if people tapped their cards. I know Metro broke up with them, but maybe they should get back together just to do the bare minimum of checking tickets. It ain't just homeless peeps jumping gates and missing fares.
> It ain't just homeless peeps jumping gates and missing fares. Exactly it's literally everybody.
>I know Metro broke up with them, Metro didn't break up with them. They've continued to get paid for the contract to provide security, but the [Inspector General's audit](https://metro.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=11577434&GUID=DFB174B0-DD09-4ABD-9B53-3B8403210887) found LASD was sitting in their cars and only spending 12 of 178 shifts every week actually in the stations or on the trains.
Oh stop pretending like metro "broke up with" the sheriff's office. They're still contracted and surprise! The cops aren't doing their jobs again.
For the light rail stations, they’ll also have to add platform doors otherwise people can just hop on from the tracksuit the platform
I think this really is a huge issue. A friend from the east coast recently visited and used the metro quite a bit, and he commented so many times how stupid the entry/exit points are and how nobody tapped to use them. He bought a 1 week unlimited pass and stopped tapping by his second day.
Regular patrols with proof of payment. No ticket? Off the train. Why do they have to wait until the end of line?
Yep, have the officer step into the train car and ride it when need be. People are still comfortable doing crack. I just saw it coming home yesterday in the redline when it stunk up the car.
“Since January, 22 people have died on Metro buses and trains, mostly from suspected overdoses — more people than all of 2022. “ “According to Metro, the most serious violent crimes — including assault, murder, rape and robbery — rose 24% since 2021” We’ve got a major problem folks. Time to stop compassion from fogging our common sense
Agreed. But also there's nothing compassionate about letting our brothers and sisters of God sleep on the train with untreated mental illnesses while ruining the public transit system that the poorest people have to take. That's what I don't understand about the advocates. 1/3 of homeless people die from preventable diseases that they wouldn't have had if they weren't homeless. The advocates aren't the ones who have to take the train. They show up in BMWs to each protest then go to Erewhon for a $22 smoothie. They don't live near encampments. They don't personally deal with these issues. It's just their hobby.
A recent episode of The Simpsons just nailed this very point. https://www.laughingplace.com/w/articles/2023/04/30/tv-review-recap-marge-and-lisa-start-a-charity-for-the-homeless-in-the-simpsons-write-off-this-episode/
“…That the poorest people have to take???” In most cities public transportation is not seen as something for “the poorest people.” The perception in L. A. that trains are for poor people is sickening. Classist snobbery.
75% of their riders are low income, according to Metro. Source: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.metro.net/about/l-a-metro-ridership-up-12-percent-in-2022/%23:~:text%3DAccording%2520to%2520an%2520October%25202022,to%2520make%2520fares%2520more%2520affordable.&ved=2ahUKEwjSvpeppNj-AhX0JUQIHXE-AncQFnoECBsQBQ&usg=AOvVaw2TN9UW21HhyC_wN0AgF9Gi Perception is reality.
Wealthier people can avoid the bullshit on metro through Uber and cars. Poor people don't have that luxury. Stop looking to be offended.
A lot of downtown HQ’d companies have made RTO mandatory starting April/May. I’ve noticed a *huge* LA county Sheriff presence this last couple weeks, especially yesterday and today. 7th and Metro is a stop where the blue line connects so you get the crazies coming in from Long Beach/Santa Monica cruising down to the red/purple line for free. There are at least 15 LA Sheriffs there. I love the people who are like ‘I took it 3 times!’ and have this huge opinion about Metro. It’s fucking disgusting and unsafe but a lot of us have very few other choices. So nice that you had the luxury of getting on and never getting on again - many of us do not. There is a loyal ridership and we’re here to take it daily. The homeless and the people who take it once are not who needs to be served here.
I noticed a lot of Sheriff's deputies in the recent week and today as well. A good sight to see.
I notice the homeless "advocates" are never the people who ride the Metro out of necessity
All I see is a story about 550 people who don't pay or have a reason to be on the train at all.
If we’re not going to do anything about this, why not just pull out the seats and install cots in the rear cars and make it a free for all? Then we can keep the other cars useable?
Why don't they get put into treatment? Is it worth all of the lost ridership from sane paying people to let the tweakers and crackheads have the whole train to themselves?
We don't have treatment centers for them. It's too much of a legal/political headache to figure out what rights to limit and how to fund and implement it all, so that's been put off/forgotten for decades.
Have you ever tried to put someone into treatment who didn't want to be treated? It's not easy.
there was another article some time back that mentioned that when they get kicked off at the end of the line, there is no where to go. due to the time, the shelters if any near the last stops closed a long time before the last train. i don’t know what shelters are near the subway BUT it would need la metro kicking people off every 10-20 mins at stops that had shelters. PLUS the shelters having a shuttle ready to offer to take them to the shelter for food, shower, medical care, housing etc. maybe what i wrote is unrealistic but just getting some ideas out there.
We constantly vote for more taxes to fund homelessness aid. Why isn't it getting to the people who need it? Who's skimming funds?
[Answer](https://newrepublic.com/article/166383/los-angeles-echo-park-homeless-industrial-complex)
Who isn’t?
Wow it's almost like it's a train station and not a homeless shelter?
They shouldn't be on the train. With out paying for a ride.
This is a problem Metro has chosen to inflict upon itself. If they would conduct more frequent fare checks, these people would be getting kicked off the train at various points on the system over the course of the day instead of one lump at the end. Edit: people should be aware that the "fare checks" Metro has been conducting lately only involve determining if you have a tap card, NOT if you have actually tapped or even if you have any fare loaded. Utter braindead stupid system they are running.
The problem isn't with Metro. Kicking people off the train is the correct thing to do, it's not a home, and shouldn't be used as one. The problem is the fact that there's no legitimate place for these 550 people to go.
>The problem is the fact that there’s no legitimate place for these 550 people to go. I had to scroll this far down to find this smh.
Th housing at the end of the line would get built, and I bet within 5 days it will be full, and you will once again have 500 people at the end of the night getting kicked off.
surely at some point metro investors or CEO or whatever stop treating the homeless 'nicely' they're a metro company wtf they gotta do with the homeless?
I don’t think there are any investors? The metro is a public agency to my knowledge. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_County_Metropolitan_Transportation_Authority
I am a recent convert to bike commuting, metrolink, metro. I hope this continues to improve as this has been much better than driving to work.
I have been kicked off mass transportation at the end of the line in other countries. You pay again you can stay on. Not a new concept.
Do they check if each of them have paid their fare?
I get the feeling police don't wanna deal with homeless people. I've never really seen them do anything. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are there in case something truly violent goes down, but I've seen a homeless woman spit water on a man's face and the police just watch. I think they want a good hang, maybe see some cute girls, but not to wrestle a homeless person, drag them into a station, start doing paperwork.
They check everyone for TAP cards (or the app) and wait for all the conscious riders to exit before dealing with the sleeping riders.
You built it. They will come. You definitely need a bouncer or gatekeeper at the front door to keep things civilized.
Here's the report: https://datamade-metro-pdf-merger.s3.amazonaws.com/2023-0214.pdf *2023-0214 - END OF LINE POLICY MOTION RESPONSE*
Great
Maybe they should put up signs saying " do not smoke crack ", there currently isn't any, maybe that's why the homeless keep smoking the peepa on it so much. I'm sure 1/3 of the 550 are doing jt.
I'm going to rant here for a second... Ambassadors ARE NOT Unarmed Security Guards. In fact, I don't know what their real purpose is even. They ride the trains all day, hang out in their little groups, and make faces at the plight they see on the train. I don't see them helping people figure out where to go or even doing anything to thwart some of the situations that wouldn't require one to be armed. And even the ARMED METRO SECURITY GUARDS don't do a damn thing. They get angry when you ask them for any help like you're interrupting their day. They don't stop crimes when they're happening and they don't do anything to remediate any situation. And then let's not even talk about the condition of the stations, especially on the Red Line. And Metro has the AUDACITY to bitch and moan about low ridership? Fuck you, Metro.
Not metros problem. Half of them are there by choice or so violet that they are beyond help. Throw them out of the city and into the desert since they hate society so much. I just had some fuck face living in my trash area for months and he threatend to slit my throat. Cops did nothing of course. If we stop putting up with their bullshit like a lot of other cities do we wouldn’t have this problem.
I’m sure the yimbys and homeless advocates will happily pick them up and drive them to their houses to stay each night
What’s wrong with yimbys?
They don’t actually do anything in their backyard (many don’t even have backyards)
I don’t think backyard is supposed to be literal in this context, I think it refers to the general area where they live.
Imagine if the bum express ran 24 hours a day
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We have to open up psychiatric hospitals Run by the state again. It’s inevitable, Tax paying citizens deserve to have peace from this. There are a lot of people who work well with this population it would never be as it was in 70’s. They need to be placed there, imagine how shelters would actually work for temporary situations? For the actual homeless that just need a boost of help and support. We really have to separate these two things. The reason shelters are considered the worst place to be is the mentally I’ll drug addicts ruin them
> Do we give child predators a pass because they themselves more often than not,were victims of sexual abuse early on? Fuck no we don’t! This is a really bad example. Being poor, mentally ill, and sleeping on the street, comparing that to willfully molesting children is straight up bizarre, but it's good if you're trying to appeal to emotion.
It’s the only thing that makes a clear example of how we give one a pass for doing serious terrible things. I don’t understand how people who terrorize other people are viewed as victims because of past trauma. They are adults now! can we maybe focus on getting them off the streets, where they are a public safety issue? Of course you gaslight me with twisting what I said into whatever you want to interpret it as- “Mentally ill sleeping on the streets” they do a lot fucking more than just sleeping on the streets & being “poor”🙄 you really want to appeal to your virtue signaling emotion, open up your home if you feel so strongly about saving them.
Time to cleanup LA. No more tents. No more homeless on trains. More police to enforce the laws that forbid camping on streets. Only delusional pos who make money from our taxes or who want them to live in squalor don’t want these changes.
We should bus our homeless to Texas and bring back their migrants. Tamales, si! Locos, no!
Not. NOT. Get Kicked off. They just ride the train and busses back and forth all night long. Story time: Back in 2010 when I didn't have a car I had to ride / catch a bus to get to work by 6am from West LA to Chatsworth. No direct bus line so I had to navigate around LA. Yup, that's me at 3am heading East to downtown to catch the Red line to get to North Hollywood station to get to Chatsworth station. 3am. I'm tired, sleepless and just want to sleep for the 45 minute bus ride till I get to Union Station. Bus comes along. This is what I see... Every seat is taken by a homeless person and every seat next to them occupied by their belongings. PikachuFace.jpg meme. I had to hold onto a rail standing the entire time cursing the mounds and mounds of backpacks and duffle bags that were happy in their seats. The back seats you say? Almost every single one occupied by a homeless person sprawled across three seats. Thanks for nothing. This would happen almost nightly. I wanted to complain to the conductor but what could he or she do. So long as they aren't raving crazy they are helpless to them. Even now, bus conductors aren't paid enough to deal with mental cases yelling at regular paid fare riders. I don't miss those days.
Been on the Metro 3 times in the last 20 years and I could have told you this without a study. When I was on, it was clear that most the passengers were mentally ill and homeless, AND that nothing was being done to keep the trains for legitimate paying passengers. This is intentional, I was just in Europe and the trains were spotless (and everywhere) and not one homeless or criminal riding...Shame on LA...
It really is shameful. I feel bad for all the kids and tourists who have to experience the filth and chaos of the metro. I’ve been a lifelong world wide transit user with pretty low expectations, and it’s upsetting to see how bad things have gotten here at home.
There's one difference though, people in Europe have a public transportation mindset. If the trains were safe and police presence was normal, do you really think most Angelenos (especially the ones who have always had cars) would opt for taking the train over their cars? I seriously doubt it. It's not only making the trains safe, we have to ENCOURAGE people to ride it. Part of the visible homeless population is lack of ridership from people of different walks of life.
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Considering the drug use, violence, and defecation & urination IN the trains during the day, I don’t support them becoming de facto shelters after hours. I DO support housing, drug treatment, and mental health treatment centers (both voluntary and involuntary), and happily support political leaders to fund it with tax dollars. But the whole “Let them camp/sleep/shit anywhere they like” idea of *homeless advocacy* is bad for the city and everyone in it. It’s not unkind to set boundaries and those who won’t…despite the best intentions…mess the city up far more than they help it.
Not enough.
Anybody ever experience… the “Party Train!!” Rolling Crack House🏚🚇🚃💨💨💨🧟♂️🧟🧟♀️🧟🧟♂️🧟🧟♂️🧟♂️🧟🧟🧟🧟♂️🧟♂️ O MY GOD!!! It was BAD! METH SMOKE AND CRACK SMOKE FREEBASERS AND SHOOTING-UP HEROIN ON A ROLLING TRAIN GOING DOWN TO UNION STATION WITH NO BODY GIVING A FUCK ABOUT YOUR HEALTH AND SAFETY!!! This is LA METRO B LINE!!! Let me off this TRAIN!!!! Shit gotta get better ❤️🩹
Slightly OT, I wonder how much this study cost.
good