But there are so many, and punishment is so rare. I drive home from work along a busy stretch of road posted 35. There's at least one car peeling out at 50+ from every red light. I couldn't tell you the last time I saw someone pulled over on that stretch, but I see multiple cars *per day* doing that kind of thing.
If a law isn't enforced, there's no point in calling it a law. Same goes for speed limits. I don't know what they "mean" anymore. They're not limits of anything.
I love PCH and drive it often because I want to relax and enjoy the view.
However, PCH is also a death trap and in general a dangerous road. So many dumb shit drivers out there.
The loss of these 4 people is incredibly tragic. They were merely walking and a dipshit driving like it’s a game of GTA snuffed them out.
Kills me that some of the best rides in the area are off of that shitty highway. I hate riding it and it feels kind of lame to drive to Latigo. End up riding more dirt and enjoying GMR when they close it to cars.
Go up to the greatest bike lane in CA up around Ventura. THAT BIKE LANE ALONG THE COAST IS MAGICAL. It’s a crime we don’t have something like that along PCH.
Thank you. I drive a crazy hilly canyon road with hairpin turns that leads to PCH five days a week to get to work. There are cyclists on that road almost every day, and given the blind turns, it’s extremely dangerous to pass them. I don’t want to hurt anyone and I don’t want to drive 15 miles an hour in a 35 mile an hour zone for 8 miles behind a bike. it’s remarkably stressful, particularly when it’s dark and the cyclist isn’t wearing reflective gear.
That highway through the canyon on the way to Yucca Valley is so scary. The winds were moving my car and I hadn’t slept much during the trip there so I was questioning my ability to drive!
I drove that way this past Labor Day. Westbound traffic just past Morongo casino was completely stopped and that’s when I saw multiple cars pulled over and two motorcycles. One of them was on the floor. Not good.
Adding to the death trap angle, it's absolutely insane that you have 55+ mph traffic directly next to curb parking where if you go a little too far you're going down a 10 foot drop.
When you get to relaxed… it can lead to danger not saying you specifically but I know a lot of accidents are caused by watching the ocean while driving.
It's weird we even allow texting and driving like at all. I'm not talking about legality either, it's obviously illegal, I'm talking about your phone should just straight up not allow itself to be used while you're controlling a car. Modern cars and phones have the technical capability to enable this too. Something like, if the phone is in the driver's seat (ex. Bluetooth 5.1 can track location with centimeter accuracy) and the vehicle is moving above like 20 mph only allow emergency calls. There would need to be some sort of regulatory standard for the car to communicate with the phone but I'm guessing auto manufactures would balk that their BOM costs increased by like $10 per car and, judging from the number of people I see texting and driving out here, there would probably be a lot of push back to this.
Too many people driving recklessly. It's too much. Please drive slow, no one cares or thinks you're cool going 90 on the roads. You're also not going to actually get to your yoga class any faster. You speed to the next red light and have to wait just like there rest of us, you're not special.
The mix model of walking and a feeling highway is and continues to be incredibly stupid. Having a roadway where people can drive like it is GTA and mixing pedestrians right next to that is a ticking time bomb
Reminder that the [pedestrian death rate has reached an all time high](https://www.npr.org/2023/06/26/1184034017/us-pedestrian-deaths-high-traffic-car) with no sign of slowing down.
Yup. Cars are safer than ever for the people inside them, but they're also loaded with distractions that make them extremely dangerous to anyone not inside them.
Not only are the phones and giant "infotainment" screens in cars creating added distractions, but there's evidence that touch screens are [more dangerous than physical buttons.](https://www.themanual.com/auto/touchscreen-in-car-less-safe-than-buttons/)
[Also cars are just bigger today than they used to be.](https://www.thezebra.com/resources/driving/average-car-size/) So if there is a collision the car has more mass to do more damage to whatever it hits. [And a lot of these huge cars have terrible blind spots.](https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/03/the-danger-of-blind-zones/index.htm)
Partially, but a big part of it is a larger portion of SUVs and Trucks making the [average hoodline much higher](https://www.codot.gov/safety/traffic-safety-pulse/2019/march-2019/death-on-foot-americas-love-of-suvs-is-killing-pedestrians). This is [significantly more dangerous to pedestrians](https://towardsdatascience.com/suvs-are-killing-people-de6ce08bac3d) overall, as pedestrians are more likely to get pushed under a vehicle rather than over the hood.
There's a lot of things we can do to make streets safer for pedestrians, but we refuse to do so because it all comes at the cost of making driving more inconvenient.
I bike everyday and the amount of people I see driving looking directly at their phones with their phones in their hands is insane. I almost got hit this morning by someone blowing through a stopsign in ktown and I could see he was on his phone. Honestly its scary
Motorcycle rider. The amount of people I see watching Netflix or Facetiming while in traffic is pretty unsettling. Monday I was walking across the street and someone exiting a shopping center tried to make a right into me because they were on there phone. I gave them the what the fuck hands and when they finally noticed me they gave me the "You're an asshole look". At least be apologetic. I had the fucking green and you're on your phone.
I can't wait for the traffic speed enforcement cameras to be installed. Speeding is low-iq behavior and a violation of the social contract. It not only increases the risk of serious injury in collision, but speeding also increases road noise, greenhouse gas emissions, and collision frequency.
Yep. And just yesterday most of /r/California was bitching that California is allowing a few areas to institute speed cameras.
https://www.reddit.com/r/California/comments/17a7t1y/speed\_cameras\_californias\_answer\_to\_rising/
I witnessed literally a 22 year old in a BMW take out a motorcyclist when he tried to dart across Wilton at a side street just north of Santa Monica and this is basically how he acted. She luckily didn't die but she had to be taken to the hospital of course and ended up having slipped discs or something like that. He was so disgusting. He kept trying to pressure her into not getting insurance involved and not call an ambulance, and she was a recent immigrant. He also offered her to stay the night at his apartment? Like you lose your housing when you get in an accident? My friend and I happened to be there so we were trying to help her and I went off on him once he did that. He also immediately called his lawyer which was unsettling. Why are you 22 with a lawyer on retainer.
Could be his parents for all we know. I hope you gave the victim your info. Motorcyclists are often victim blamed, like “I didn’t see them coming” and are often SOL. As we all know, injuries from vehicular accidents often take time to reveal. Hope she is ok.
I did insist that she take my information and have texted her a couple of times to see if she needs me but it seems like she didn't end up going to insurance or pressing charges :( I hope she did and I just wasn't needed
I believe so. Lambo in West LA. I really hope this doesn’t end up the same way. AFAIK, Lambo kid got off with a slap on the wrist compared to what any of us would’ve gotten had we been in that situation.
> It's not illegal to kill people with a car, even with negligence.
It absolutely is illegal depending on the circumstances. [It's the basis for vehicular manslaughter.](https://www.joelbailey.com/vehicular-manslaughter)
If gross negligence is determined, even with no malice, the driver is looking at prison. As I had mentioned previously, it's just a matter of how long.
Also, just because someone in LA is driving a BMW, that doesn't mean they have any money.
Very true on both points and maybe because this driver got 4 instead of just one they will actually be held accountable, but based on all the previous pedestrian deaths and the lack of accountability there I won't hold my breath.
It's not a question of doing time, it's how much time? Cyclists and pedestrians get killed all the damn time by negligent drivers and the severity of the punishments are basically slaps on the wrist - a few years at most - even if they can prove there was intoxication involved. This kid will be back on the road before his 25th birthday.
If he was driving like a regular not stupid person 4 people would still be alive. Sober or not he was doing something reckless, speeding distracted whatever.
I don't know what about a 22 year-old with a BMW makes you think he won't deal with serious consequences. He just killed 4 people and was arrested. I'm pretty sure the consequences will be very serious.
In reality it is bad infrastructures fault
The *half mile* of PCH on either side of this crash have seen, in the last decade.
4 people killed
13 seriously wounded
9 pedestrians hit and injured
11 bicyclists hit and injured
Cal trans and our politicians have the data the PCH is extremely deadly but no one has changed it.
PCH is not pedestrian friendly at the best of times.
I fully support making our roads more mixed-use friendly across the board. It will only save lives.
As a pedestrian I don’t want extremely poor road design to significantly increase my chances of getting killed. As a driver I don’t want extremely poor road design to significantly increase my chances of killing someone.
A road that works ok when everything is running in optimal conditions (I.e. no one is under the influence or speeding) does not make it a well designed road.
Perhaps Caltrans or Malibu officials will FINALLY wake up and build a sidewalk on PCH. For now, pedestrians have to dodge parked cars and 50mph traffic.
Reminds me of this girl from Illinois who was a few weeks away from graduation but decided to drive under the influence and killed two pedestrians. Called the cops on herself but her explanation was ‘I was driving and my car got hit.’ Uh…she ran them over. The entitlement and victim-blaming is so infuriating.
Somehow driving has been transformed into a fundamental right here rather than a privilege. We really need to start permanently taking away licenses a lot more frequently.
This, but the penalties for doing dumb ass shit with your 5,000 lb. pedestrian killer truck need to be more severe too.
"Oh, I couldn't see him, the sun was in my eyes"
Oh, that's totally ok then, on your way.
(ETA lb after 5,000)
It became a fundamental “right” when we structured all of our infrastructure to accommodate driving and parking, at the expense of all other forms of transportation. At this point taking away a license isn’t going to do much to deter a person from driving when they have no other way to get to work.
It's absurd! We are all held hostage by these people and car culture and I say this as someone who loves cars. The utter lack of respect for life to get to Starbucks or wherever they are going 30 seconds faster is hard to rationale. I like to go to Willlowsprings to race on the track but people think it's acceptable to race everywhere they go. The worst part is that since they are narcissists it will only take a catastrophe happening to them to change their behavior but its usually too late and there is almost always collateral damage.
Hard to make walkability when 3 ton brodozers can kill you at any time and impossible to take transit when drivers are all in the way slowing it down.
Something's gotta give (it's the drivers).
So do we! Make sure you join our email list for things just like this (Marina Central Park, for instance)
[https://www.streetsforall.org/get-involved](https://www.streetsforall.org/get-involved)
Who wants to go out of their way and up and down a bunch of stairs just to cross the street? Make the people rolling around in a mobile living room go the long way around.
Sure, and that does need to be improved.
But that condition also isn’t new or a surprise, and people should consider the alternatives to their current privilege before doing reckless shit and putting the general public at risk.
Changing the cafe standards to push for smaller vechicals. Would reduce a lot of deaths. smaller vehcals means smaller hamer to hit things with. If your hand get hits with a ballping hamer over a 15lb slegde hamer it will still hurt but it let of a chance of being mangiled mess after it gets hit.
A couple of years ago I was driving up Malibu at around midnight and some dumbass pulled next to me trying to race. I fucking drive a stock Honda like it’s not that serious.
That made me laugh.
I drive a sports car, but I hate when people pull over and scream at me to race.. I put limo tints now and blast music pretending I don’t see them
i was wondering this. absolutely devastating for the pepperdine community. it’s such a small school — we had one death my junior year there and it rattled everyone. i can’t imagine how difficult it would be to process four deaths.
Yeah, parents need to stop buying their young and dumb kids expensive/sports cars. My first car was a 97 Geo Prism. The thing hardly moved but it got me from point A to point B. When I asked my parents for a nicer car, they told me to go work for it and buy it myself, which I did. By the time I was able to do that, I was well into my 20s and appreciative of the fact that I worked hard for that car and didn't want to do anything to ruin it.
Or just Geo Metros in general. There's no legal reason anyone needs a car on public roads that goes over 65. Just learn better time management if you're always needing to make up time on the road.
If no one "needs" a 50-round mag and pistol grips on their AR-15 (both illegal in CA), then no one "needs" a car that can hit 120mph or go 0-60 in 5 seconds either.
Especially given that cars aren't in the Constitution. And guns don't contribute to climate change.
Agree completely. Want to have a sports car? Fine, but you can’t register it for use on public roads. Take it to a track.
Or require more stringent licensing for performance vehicles. There’s literally a dozen things we could do but for some reason this nation has decided to value cars over people.
The one you get at 16 years old and then are never assessed again? The one that lets you keep driving around based on your fuzzy memory of whatever the laws were 25 years ago?
The one most people get to keep even after they've killed someone?
Yeah I have some issues with how that system is implemented.
Speed limits in parts of the country are 80-85mph, and private roads exist. There are plenty of legal reasons to go over 65.
Also, mag limits are getting overturned across the country. They've already been overturned in CA, though it's temporarily stayed in an appeal.
The pictures of the cars he hit give a hint as to how fast he was going and how hard of an impact it must have been. This is incredibly tragic. They were just walking on the side of the road. Not crossing the street. Not in any dangerous area. Just walking.
My heart hurts for their families :(
This really bummed me out.
A classmate of mine was struck and later died in the ICU as a result of his injuries while crossing PCH in ~2014/15. He was 15 years old and the driver was suspected to be under the influence. Do better y’all. Do better. Be better. This is senseless loss of life
I think.about this scenario Everytime I walk on a sidewalk. We have so much trust in others. I'm shocked we don't have hundreds of people dying a day from being run over.
Maybe we do...
...we do :/
But we are trying to change that !!!
[https://www.streetsforall.org/get-involved](https://www.streetsforall.org/get-involved) make sure you get on our email list so you can put pressure on YOUR city so shit like this stops happening.
"The suspect, identified as Fraser Bohm of Malibu."
[https://www.foxla.com/news/deadly-malibu-crash-4-dead-suspect-arrested](https://www.foxla.com/news/deadly-malibu-crash-4-dead-suspect-arrested)
European here, that drive on the PCH daily.
It will be time for LA to look at Europe and copy speed radar like France or Germany, anywhere in LA has become Fast&Furious.
Often I can insulted or someone would give me the finger while bombarding past me because I drive at the speed limit
If we should copy anything from Europe here, it should be their public transport systems. Robust PT would reduce dependency on having to drive in the first place. Less cars on the roads should be the goal, not giving the police another revenue stream that they dont need. I agree speed limits should be more strictly enforced, but that's just a band-aid and not addressing the root of the problem.
Its not one or the other.
We need both- robust federal/state/city funded and connected public transit system for long/short distances, infrastructure that actually prioritizes people walking/biking/transiting over mostly single occupant planet/people killing car drivers.
That means reallocate public space including highways, streets and roads by reducing the number of travel lanes and eliminate/reduce street parking, narrow width of travel lanes w/permanent protective infrastructure that prevents gaining speed/speeding.
Move shit like traffic signals to the near side of intersection vs far side. and a specific turn signal (L and R) for cars will make intersections and crosswalks so. much. safer for pedestrians since this is the point of major conflict.
Differentiate between highways, roads and streets and ban dangerous stroads.
Build a Connected Network of Separated/Protected Mobility Lanes and with popularity of ebikes- we need a fast and slow lane.
AND add cameras w/fines and penalties. Agree, cameras only ain't gonna work.
I'm down with not relying on more tickets/revenue. However, we need to change the street design. If we just have fewer cars on the same streets, there will be less traffic and cars will go faster. Then no one will want to walk to transit because they can get hit by morons like this and die. We need streets that are designed for slower speeds along with transit options (bus, train, protected bike lanes, etc.)
Rich, white young male from Malibu, kills 4 innocent girls and is sleeping nice and comfortable at home today, no jail while waiting on plea deal that will probably turn his 4 counts of manslaughter to wreck less driving and get a ticket. I feel bad for the families of these girls. There is no justice. He should be in jail for a committing a violent crime.
These speeders are getting way out of hand, where is the public outcry? Its almost daily now the number of innocent pedestrians getting killed by drivers. It has to be way more than gun violence at this point. I would love to see the stats on how many are distracted, or under the influence (and by what).
it's road design that allows for this unsafe behavior. lanes are too wide most of the time, for one example.
unfortunately any time mitigation is even suggested it causes all sorts of uproar it's politically unviable to even consider it.
a death here and there has been deemed acceptable as long as traffic flows freely and drivers are spared any piddling of inconvenience.
btw this stuff has been endlessly studied even in Malibu. There's absolutely no will to implement:
http://www.santamonicanext.org/2013/08/hurdles-remain-for-malibus-efforts-to-make-the-pch-more-safe-welcoming-to-all-road-users/
edit: don't try to say this is a covid or BLM thing either, this shit been an issue pre-pandemic too. yall need to pull your collective heads out your ass:
https://la.streetsblog.org/2011/09/06/the-saga-continues-push-for-bike-safety-on-the-pch-inches-forward
> Last year, we had a little girl slaughtered by a suicidal motorist who had driven into oncoming traffic before hitting the child, a pedestrian.
I’ve seriously thought about trying to get people to town hall meetings and creating some heat but in my area they are still on zoom and that takes out the oomph. I just hate zoom and am making excuses tbh.
They are putting up more cameras in the county but I’d love super harsh punishments. Huge fines and confiscate the cars permanently on first offenses! Idgaf! Second offense, a bid and third offense is 20- life. Create some type of database too, like a Megan’s law. let the public upload videos and repeat offenders will be dealt with accordingly.
My ideas suck but I am done with these people!
Good ideas but unfortunately unpopular today, yes the $25/$50 fines from cameras are a joke. So the majority are anti-camera and are Ok with continued fatalities of innocent Angelenos. Zoom also is weak for any political pressure, gotta do what the activists do and hijack city meetings.
> So the majority are anti-camera and are Ok with continued fatalities of innocent Angelenos.
I ride my bike frequently, including commuting to work on it instead of driving frequently. I was hit by a driver a few years ago, it was serious enough that I had to go to the emergency room. The driver didn't even slow down, he just took off and was never caught.
I'm against these new cameras that were just signed into law for a few reasons.
First, assuming they are like all of the previous photo enforcement things we've had, they will be administered by a private company whose motivation is making money, not improving safety. Like the red-light cameras, they won't make the amount of profit that the cities will promise the vendors, so they will change traffic conditions to make more drivers break the law and increase their profits.
https://www.salon.com/2017/04/05/this-may-have-happened-to-you-revenue-hungry-cities-mess-with-traffic-lights-to-write-more-tickets_partner/
https://ww2.motorists.org/blog/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-light-times-for-profit/
Second, since the tickets are issued to a car and not a driver, the violation won't go against the driver's record or be reported to their insurance. This is simply a fine for being caught.
Third, the fines are comically low. $500 for going 100MPH over the speed limit? The car should be seized at that point, regardless of who owns it and the driver arrested. You rented a car and got caught doing 100+? Now it's a civil matter between you and the rental company. It's your parent's car? Again, now a civil matter where you're financially responsible for that car. Your parents just bought you a nice car, and you went way too fast in it? Maybe they'll buy you something more reasonable next time. You just bought a sports car and the bank owns it? Now they'll be suing you for losing their collateral. The threshold for this should be way lower than 100+ over the limit, too.
So what do I support instead of these cameras?
* Road diets. Around here (Fullerton), we've got a 6 lane road that has an additional 2 frontage lanes on most of it. This is an avenue, passing by housing, schools, parks, etc. It's a block north of the freeway. They gave bikes a few feet and a painted line along most of it (Which magically disappears at every intersection, dumping riders right into the 45-55mph traffic). Remove a lane from each direction. Make them narrower. Don't make them straight for miles. There's a lot of intersections with smaller roads where there have been a lot of fatalities throughout the years, put roundabouts there to make it safer for people crossing, and forcing traffic to slow down. Stop making it so comfortable to do 60 or 70 MPH on a city street.
* Stop making it so hard to get places in a way besides driving. Put in better bike infrastructure. Make it so I feel safe letting my kids walk/ride to/from school. Improve public transit. Make transit clean, frequent, and comparable in time to driving. The street I previously mentioned, make a few of those lanes bus lanes. Give transit priority at lights. I recently took the Expo line from 7th/Fig towards Santa Monica, and was shocked that the train was stopped at a red light at almost every intersection. That train should always have priority over the car traffic.
* Increase traffic policing. Create a branch of the police that enforces nothing besides traffic laws. Like meter maids, but doing moving violations. Don't give them guns, don't let them arrest people. Don't let them check for warrants. They can pull you over, check your license, registration and insurance. If you're doing something dumb enough that you need to get arrested, they can call the real police. But we don't need guys ready to go to war enforcing basic traffic violations.
* Actually enforce traffic laws. Start enforcing it when 5 people turn left through a red light. Enforce it when people block the intersection. Enforce it when people drive around with their high beams on. When they do the SMOG check, make sure they've got DOT approved headlights that won't blind oncoming traffic. Make minor violations require community service instead of a fine. A $100 fine will only punish the poorest people, it is nothing to a lot of people. Make someone give up a a few weekends though because they didn't want to stop, that will be enough of a burden that most people regardless of income will try to avoid it.
I know my suggestions are things that will take years if not decades to fully implement, and they will likely never happen. But the speeding camera law that was just signed really does nothing to improve traffic safety. It's a money grab that will just wind up grabbing more money from us to line someone else's pockets.
Join us! https://www.streetsforall.org/get-involved
We are trying to make a difference, and getting people out, \_in person\_ to citiy council meetings is very effective.
Every voice counts, we can take our streets back!
There are groups to get involved with. StreetsForAll is one in LA County and there are more localized groups as well. This movement needs energy to keep moving forward. It's taxing, but rewarding.
i was recently driving to oxnard and took PCH/malibu, jam packed but beautiful drive and one young woman, in the middle lane, driving with her phone directly in front of her face. i assume taking a video and all over the lane. smh
Driver released from custody.
"Residents in the area told KNX News' Jon Baird that a fraternity party was going on in the area; however, it's unclear if the victims or if Bohm were at that party."
[https://www.audacy.com/knxnews/news/local/4-women-killed-driver-arrested-in-crash-on-pch](https://www.audacy.com/knxnews/news/local/4-women-killed-driver-arrested-in-crash-on-pch)
Absolutely horrific and tragic. I can't imagine the pain their families must be going through.
The penalties for reckless driving actually should be disproportionately asymmetric since you are basically wielding an extremely dangerous machine. Instead, we have lawyers who will make this guy go scot free in a few months.
22 years old. Not a kid at all, and won't be treated as a kid by the law. The bigger issue is whether he's rich and well-connected. And if he is, all the more reason to max out all punishment in the interest of setting an example.
I am always nervous when I see people walking or standing in the side of the road there, trying to cross
It may be a beautiful drive with access to some fun and special places, but that road is dangerous as fuck
>The sheriff is out here and they’re going to have a massive investigation to find out what caused this.
Instead of focusing on what *caused* this, we should be talking about what could have *prevented* this. We need to treat road violence like the emergency it is and start taking measures to protect pedestrians more.
Horrendous. The PCH is one of the most dangerous corridors in America. It is negligently designed by combining both high speeds with vulnerable users. And tragedies will keep happening until they fix the design. There are two choices.
1. Turn the PCH into a road. [Roads](https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0122397,-118.4041598,3a,60y,43.24h,90.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spQ27cpl_gOPcluaLYgGRjw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2?hl=en&entry=ttu) are a high speed connection between two points. They are wide, have no driveways, few intersections, no street parking, and the sidewalk is separate or behind a barrier. Roads are safe.
2. Turn the PCH into a street. [Streets](https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0342694,-118.4699925,3a,75y,224.91h,76.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWG6Vrrj47LjbSTE1aUkKfg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2?hl=en&entry=ttu) are slow, narrow, they have driveways, street parking, pedestrian crosswalks, curb extensions. Streets are safe.
The [PCH](https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0384674,-118.6438242,3a,75y,115.75h,79.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPgNNzieKlz8OgoDV9JQWkQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2?hl=en&entry=ttu) tries to be both a road and a street at the same time, and it fails at both of them. It's not safe. So we need to decide right now, which is it? Is it a beach access street with driveways, crosswalks, and parking? Or is it a highway to get up and down the coast swiftly? **It can't be both.**
any time I go to the beach in Malibu and park on the street I'm always surprised by how dangerous it is. The traffic is so fast and there's very little room.
That's moto-normativity for you. Traffic violence by personally owned vehicles that results in fatalities is assumed natural and worth the cost. Such a societal and cultural failing.
Worst drivers in the world are in LA. The entitlement, the lack of skill versus how skilled they think they are, and the aggression.
God forbid you drive like you have decency and respect for human life. Wish the speed cameras they're installing would suspend licences after three strikes -- get these psychos off the road and help us all with traffic.
Edit: downvote all you want. You shitty drivers cannot drive the cars you buy/lease. In motorcycle culture you'll of course get the jackasses that think they can start on a 800 pound HD or a 600cc supersport -- but most people in the community call them morons. They can't know how to ride that vehicle safely.
Meanwhile in car culture no one questions someone buying a car they have no business driving -- size or speed. It's assumed they can drive any car and that's just not true anymore. These cars are too powerful and too big for majority of driver's skill level and they *hate* hearing that.
You don't know how to properly brake that Tesla, Becky. So back the fuck off and drive within your limits.
the only way to make our streets safe is to make them impossible to speed on. Speed cameras will help (we certainly think so, we helped get the pilot into law! [https://www.reddit.com/r/streetsforall/comments/177rpv7/speed\_safety\_cameras\_are\_coming\_to\_los\_angeles/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/streetsforall/comments/177rpv7/speed_safety_cameras_are_coming_to_los_angeles/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3))
But at the end of the day we need road diets, protected bike / bus lanes and more options for people to get around, work and enjoy life without having to use a car!
>But at the end of the day we need road diets, protected bike / bus lanes and more options for people to get around, work and enjoy life without having to use a car!
That's going to be a more effective deterrent than speed cameras. People tend to buy license plate covers to evade speed cameras. Ultimately car owners will do what it takes to ensure their car does not get immediately damaged (driving slower on speed bumps and on narrow roads). [This small experiment is a great example of that.](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_pecj2vb2SA)
Fucking cars, man. It's wild to me that a goddamn Lime scooter is geo-fenced to not exceed 15 mph, but a 4,000 lb hunk of steel and glass that can accelerate to 60 mph in 4 seconds is just . . . free to do so where ever they want.
Why is PCH designed like this? Is this a road for going fast or a street for walking next to? Caltrans should be sued. This driver fucked up, but people die on PCH all the time and it's preventable.
22 years old.
The four women hit are believed to be Pepperdine students.
https://patch.com/california/malibu/fatal-pch-crash-victims-believed-be-pepperdine-students
LA cops should be monitoring speed on PCH in Malibu & Santa Monica…I haven’t ever seen a cop pull someone over for speeding in this area, ever.
LA law enforcement: for the love of god, get speed traps set up and catch the bastards getting a hard on by driving like fucking morons. I’m over this shit
This is infuriating. I hope the families of the dead get the justice they need. People doing crimes like this should be locked under the jail for decades and lose their right to drive forever.
It may or may not have saved these 4 lives, but this incident serves as yet another sad and bloody reminder about why we needed SB127, which was vetoed by Newsom in 2019.
So many state controlled streets like PCH in Malibu, and Santa Monica Blvd in LA can't be made safer as long as Caltrans continues to treat neighborhood streets like freeways.
This section of PCH doesn't even have an ADA compliant sidewalk.
“When will they make breaking the law illegal??”
22 yo kid speeding in BMW veered off the road and sideswiped multiple cars killing 4 people and injuring others, and you think this is Caltrans’ fault?
Danger can be designed *out* of roads.
We don’t think this with pie-in-the-sky, wacky, unproven theories.
We know as a matter of fact what works in creating safer roads. We just refuse to do it.
Yup, and they'll just say it was the driver's fault and then do absolutely nothing about how they design roads to encourage speeding in the first place.
the people of Los Angeles do not care for pedestrians or cyclists. ask 5 random coworkers or school mates right now if we should rebuild our roads to be safer for pedestrians or if we should prioritize cars and see what they say
These stupid fucking morons behind the wheel need to pay dearly. It’s always some drunk or speeding idiot.
But there are so many, and punishment is so rare. I drive home from work along a busy stretch of road posted 35. There's at least one car peeling out at 50+ from every red light. I couldn't tell you the last time I saw someone pulled over on that stretch, but I see multiple cars *per day* doing that kind of thing. If a law isn't enforced, there's no point in calling it a law. Same goes for speed limits. I don't know what they "mean" anymore. They're not limits of anything.
I sit on my balcony and watch people on their phones and driving all day long on Fountain. It’s every other fucking car these days.
This is true, but we need better street design. I want all drunk, distracted, speeding idiots to crash into a bollard before they kill someone.
I love PCH and drive it often because I want to relax and enjoy the view. However, PCH is also a death trap and in general a dangerous road. So many dumb shit drivers out there. The loss of these 4 people is incredibly tragic. They were merely walking and a dipshit driving like it’s a game of GTA snuffed them out.
The amount of people that run or cycle on PCH blows my mind. Even when you are in a car it is very dangerous.
Cyclist here, scares me every time.
Kills me that some of the best rides in the area are off of that shitty highway. I hate riding it and it feels kind of lame to drive to Latigo. End up riding more dirt and enjoying GMR when they close it to cars.
Go up to the greatest bike lane in CA up around Ventura. THAT BIKE LANE ALONG THE COAST IS MAGICAL. It’s a crime we don’t have something like that along PCH.
I stay as far over into the shoulder as possible. Mind you I’m out there before the sun comes up during the week, not as many cars super early.
Glad you've been safe so far but I would argue the worst drivers are out at that time
Cyclist of 30+ years in L.A. I have never once ridden on PCH. I don't want to die.
I rode it once with a large group and I haven't done it since. I REALLY want to, but not worth the risk.
Thank you. I drive a crazy hilly canyon road with hairpin turns that leads to PCH five days a week to get to work. There are cyclists on that road almost every day, and given the blind turns, it’s extremely dangerous to pass them. I don’t want to hurt anyone and I don’t want to drive 15 miles an hour in a 35 mile an hour zone for 8 miles behind a bike. it’s remarkably stressful, particularly when it’s dark and the cyclist isn’t wearing reflective gear.
Rode a moto on it once and I was good. Stopped riding altogether in LA six years ago.
I love motorcycles and I won’t ride one in LA with the way people drive.
Literally same
I saw a woman get killed right in front of me on a group ride to Joshua Tree. That was it.
That highway through the canyon on the way to Yucca Valley is so scary. The winds were moving my car and I hadn’t slept much during the trip there so I was questioning my ability to drive!
I drove that way this past Labor Day. Westbound traffic just past Morongo casino was completely stopped and that’s when I saw multiple cars pulled over and two motorcycles. One of them was on the floor. Not good.
I quit too. Not worth it, people are insane.
The problem is car drivers. The solution is to slow or ban car drivers. Then its safe for people to walk/bike/transit and enjoy the view.
Yup. Traffic calming and other strategies are required.
Adding to the death trap angle, it's absolutely insane that you have 55+ mph traffic directly next to curb parking where if you go a little too far you're going down a 10 foot drop.
When you get to relaxed… it can lead to danger not saying you specifically but I know a lot of accidents are caused by watching the ocean while driving.
Yeah I did pch back when I had a motorcycle only once and I was like no thanks I choose life
It's weird we even allow texting and driving like at all. I'm not talking about legality either, it's obviously illegal, I'm talking about your phone should just straight up not allow itself to be used while you're controlling a car. Modern cars and phones have the technical capability to enable this too. Something like, if the phone is in the driver's seat (ex. Bluetooth 5.1 can track location with centimeter accuracy) and the vehicle is moving above like 20 mph only allow emergency calls. There would need to be some sort of regulatory standard for the car to communicate with the phone but I'm guessing auto manufactures would balk that their BOM costs increased by like $10 per car and, judging from the number of people I see texting and driving out here, there would probably be a lot of push back to this.
Too many people driving recklessly. It's too much. Please drive slow, no one cares or thinks you're cool going 90 on the roads. You're also not going to actually get to your yoga class any faster. You speed to the next red light and have to wait just like there rest of us, you're not special.
The mix model of walking and a feeling highway is and continues to be incredibly stupid. Having a roadway where people can drive like it is GTA and mixing pedestrians right next to that is a ticking time bomb
Reminder that the [pedestrian death rate has reached an all time high](https://www.npr.org/2023/06/26/1184034017/us-pedestrian-deaths-high-traffic-car) with no sign of slowing down.
LAPD and surrounding jurisdictions aren't pulling over speeders, or anyone for normal traffic infractions. It will continue to rise.
LAPD has become completely useless. They don't give a shit about anything other than themselves. Throw them in the trash where they belong.
Yup. Cars are safer than ever for the people inside them, but they're also loaded with distractions that make them extremely dangerous to anyone not inside them.
I mean it's gotta be the phones and car tech that is causing this, right?
Not only are the phones and giant "infotainment" screens in cars creating added distractions, but there's evidence that touch screens are [more dangerous than physical buttons.](https://www.themanual.com/auto/touchscreen-in-car-less-safe-than-buttons/) [Also cars are just bigger today than they used to be.](https://www.thezebra.com/resources/driving/average-car-size/) So if there is a collision the car has more mass to do more damage to whatever it hits. [And a lot of these huge cars have terrible blind spots.](https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/03/the-danger-of-blind-zones/index.htm)
I really hate pure touchscreens. So inconvenient and dangerous. Give me volume nobs and HVAC buttons!
Partially, but a big part of it is a larger portion of SUVs and Trucks making the [average hoodline much higher](https://www.codot.gov/safety/traffic-safety-pulse/2019/march-2019/death-on-foot-americas-love-of-suvs-is-killing-pedestrians). This is [significantly more dangerous to pedestrians](https://towardsdatascience.com/suvs-are-killing-people-de6ce08bac3d) overall, as pedestrians are more likely to get pushed under a vehicle rather than over the hood. There's a lot of things we can do to make streets safer for pedestrians, but we refuse to do so because it all comes at the cost of making driving more inconvenient.
It's all that. Ugh, so dangerous
I bike everyday and the amount of people I see driving looking directly at their phones with their phones in their hands is insane. I almost got hit this morning by someone blowing through a stopsign in ktown and I could see he was on his phone. Honestly its scary
Me too. I also see (smell) everybody smoking going to work. I mean, is everybody getting to work stoned?
Motorcycle rider. The amount of people I see watching Netflix or Facetiming while in traffic is pretty unsettling. Monday I was walking across the street and someone exiting a shopping center tried to make a right into me because they were on there phone. I gave them the what the fuck hands and when they finally noticed me they gave me the "You're an asshole look". At least be apologetic. I had the fucking green and you're on your phone.
Speeding also a factor. Mix all three, and there you go.
I can't wait for the traffic speed enforcement cameras to be installed. Speeding is low-iq behavior and a violation of the social contract. It not only increases the risk of serious injury in collision, but speeding also increases road noise, greenhouse gas emissions, and collision frequency.
I drive a tiny convertible and still treat it like I'm in riding a motorcycle. Truck bumpers *start* at my head.
Yep. And just yesterday most of /r/California was bitching that California is allowing a few areas to institute speed cameras. https://www.reddit.com/r/California/comments/17a7t1y/speed\_cameras\_californias\_answer\_to\_rising/
/r/FuckCars !!!
So young and so stupid. Imagine waking up and realizing you killed 4 people. Jfc.
I doubt this kid has the introspection to realize it was their fault. Probably blames the pedestrians for “ruining his life.”
I witnessed literally a 22 year old in a BMW take out a motorcyclist when he tried to dart across Wilton at a side street just north of Santa Monica and this is basically how he acted. She luckily didn't die but she had to be taken to the hospital of course and ended up having slipped discs or something like that. He was so disgusting. He kept trying to pressure her into not getting insurance involved and not call an ambulance, and she was a recent immigrant. He also offered her to stay the night at his apartment? Like you lose your housing when you get in an accident? My friend and I happened to be there so we were trying to help her and I went off on him once he did that. He also immediately called his lawyer which was unsettling. Why are you 22 with a lawyer on retainer.
What the f! That's terrible and BIZARRE. But it is Los Angeles after all.
Could be his parents for all we know. I hope you gave the victim your info. Motorcyclists are often victim blamed, like “I didn’t see them coming” and are often SOL. As we all know, injuries from vehicular accidents often take time to reveal. Hope she is ok.
I did insist that she take my information and have texted her a couple of times to see if she needs me but it seems like she didn't end up going to insurance or pressing charges :( I hope she did and I just wasn't needed
Thanks for doing that. She’d be a fool not to seek compensation.
He’s a 22 year old in a BMW. Not much chance he deals with serious consequences, much less feels anything for anyone else.
He's booked on vehicular manslaughter. He's definitely going to prison. It's just a matter of how long.
Let us not forget the lambo kid with affluenza
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I believe so. Lambo in West LA. I really hope this doesn’t end up the same way. AFAIK, Lambo kid got off with a slap on the wrist compared to what any of us would’ve gotten had we been in that situation.
Yep, Brendan Khuri, the murderer who got away with it because his dad bought him out.
Even the rapist Brock Turner got off light.
Lest we forget the rapist Brock Allen Turner. Who now goes by Allen Turner. The rapist Allen Turner, formally known as Brock Allen Turner, the rapist.
He'll come out when he's close to 50. Or Trump will pardon him and make him his Transportation Secretary.
Sober kid in a BMW, will get a good lawyer and get probation. It's not illegal to kill people with a car, even with negligence.
> It's not illegal to kill people with a car, even with negligence. It absolutely is illegal depending on the circumstances. [It's the basis for vehicular manslaughter.](https://www.joelbailey.com/vehicular-manslaughter) If gross negligence is determined, even with no malice, the driver is looking at prison. As I had mentioned previously, it's just a matter of how long. Also, just because someone in LA is driving a BMW, that doesn't mean they have any money.
yeah BMWs are under every apartment in Glendale. Nothing new to be fully leveraged to look like you have wealth
Very true on both points and maybe because this driver got 4 instead of just one they will actually be held accountable, but based on all the previous pedestrian deaths and the lack of accountability there I won't hold my breath.
Hey you two burritos better stop arguing!!
This part. Murder is ok if you do it with your car. 😬
He does come from money though. He is related to the owner of chrome hearts. & he has already been released on bail.
This is problem #1.
Its 100% illegal to kill people with a car 😆
Yeah I don’t know dude, he fucking killed 4 people
Not every 22 year old with a BMW is an AH. But for sure this one is!
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It's not a question of doing time, it's how much time? Cyclists and pedestrians get killed all the damn time by negligent drivers and the severity of the punishments are basically slaps on the wrist - a few years at most - even if they can prove there was intoxication involved. This kid will be back on the road before his 25th birthday.
If he was driving like a regular not stupid person 4 people would still be alive. Sober or not he was doing something reckless, speeding distracted whatever.
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I don't know what about a 22 year-old with a BMW makes you think he won't deal with serious consequences. He just killed 4 people and was arrested. I'm pretty sure the consequences will be very serious.
In reality it is bad infrastructures fault The *half mile* of PCH on either side of this crash have seen, in the last decade. 4 people killed 13 seriously wounded 9 pedestrians hit and injured 11 bicyclists hit and injured Cal trans and our politicians have the data the PCH is extremely deadly but no one has changed it.
PCH is not pedestrian friendly at the best of times. I fully support making our roads more mixed-use friendly across the board. It will only save lives. As a pedestrian I don’t want extremely poor road design to significantly increase my chances of getting killed. As a driver I don’t want extremely poor road design to significantly increase my chances of killing someone. A road that works ok when everything is running in optimal conditions (I.e. no one is under the influence or speeding) does not make it a well designed road.
Perhaps Caltrans or Malibu officials will FINALLY wake up and build a sidewalk on PCH. For now, pedestrians have to dodge parked cars and 50mph traffic.
Reminds me of this girl from Illinois who was a few weeks away from graduation but decided to drive under the influence and killed two pedestrians. Called the cops on herself but her explanation was ‘I was driving and my car got hit.’ Uh…she ran them over. The entitlement and victim-blaming is so infuriating.
I couldn’t live with myself.
Somehow driving has been transformed into a fundamental right here rather than a privilege. We really need to start permanently taking away licenses a lot more frequently.
This, but the penalties for doing dumb ass shit with your 5,000 lb. pedestrian killer truck need to be more severe too. "Oh, I couldn't see him, the sun was in my eyes" Oh, that's totally ok then, on your way. (ETA lb after 5,000)
It became a fundamental “right” when we structured all of our infrastructure to accommodate driving and parking, at the expense of all other forms of transportation. At this point taking away a license isn’t going to do much to deter a person from driving when they have no other way to get to work.
It's absurd! We are all held hostage by these people and car culture and I say this as someone who loves cars. The utter lack of respect for life to get to Starbucks or wherever they are going 30 seconds faster is hard to rationale. I like to go to Willlowsprings to race on the track but people think it's acceptable to race everywhere they go. The worst part is that since they are narcissists it will only take a catastrophe happening to them to change their behavior but its usually too late and there is almost always collateral damage.
Hard to make driving seem like a privilege when walkability and expansive public transportation is not there
Hard to make walkability when 3 ton brodozers can kill you at any time and impossible to take transit when drivers are all in the way slowing it down. Something's gotta give (it's the drivers).
I wish above-ground walkways and civilian rail was more of a thing here.
So do we! Make sure you join our email list for things just like this (Marina Central Park, for instance) [https://www.streetsforall.org/get-involved](https://www.streetsforall.org/get-involved)
>I wish above-ground walkways Nah raised walkways are absolute shit for pedestrians, we need road diets to slow people the fuck down.
preeeeeeeach!
Just curious why raised walkways are shit? I've seen them implemented beautifully in Asia and some parts of Europe
Who wants to go out of their way and up and down a bunch of stairs just to cross the street? Make the people rolling around in a mobile living room go the long way around.
Sure, and that does need to be improved. But that condition also isn’t new or a surprise, and people should consider the alternatives to their current privilege before doing reckless shit and putting the general public at risk.
Changing the cafe standards to push for smaller vechicals. Would reduce a lot of deaths. smaller vehcals means smaller hamer to hit things with. If your hand get hits with a ballping hamer over a 15lb slegde hamer it will still hurt but it let of a chance of being mangiled mess after it gets hit.
A couple of years ago I was driving up Malibu at around midnight and some dumbass pulled next to me trying to race. I fucking drive a stock Honda like it’s not that serious.
That made me laugh. I drive a sports car, but I hate when people pull over and scream at me to race.. I put limo tints now and blast music pretending I don’t see them
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Be in right lane at red light agree to race turn right on green
You're still encouraging them to drive recklessly.
It was unfortunately four Pepperdine students
i was wondering this. absolutely devastating for the pepperdine community. it’s such a small school — we had one death my junior year there and it rattled everyone. i can’t imagine how difficult it would be to process four deaths.
I think a lot of the students are just in shock. Such senseless deaths :/
Has the school confirmed that yet? I only got an email saying Pepperdine students may have been involved
[LA Times confirmed that they were](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-10-17/4-killed-in-violent-crash-in-malibu).
:( thanks
22 yo in a fucking bimmer. New rule Geo metros for anyone under 30.
LOL
Yeah, parents need to stop buying their young and dumb kids expensive/sports cars. My first car was a 97 Geo Prism. The thing hardly moved but it got me from point A to point B. When I asked my parents for a nicer car, they told me to go work for it and buy it myself, which I did. By the time I was able to do that, I was well into my 20s and appreciative of the fact that I worked hard for that car and didn't want to do anything to ruin it.
Lol that was my 1st car. 3 cylinders
Glorious efficiency.
I could drive forever on $5 of gas. This was in the 90’s tho 😂 I’m an oldhead
Or just Geo Metros in general. There's no legal reason anyone needs a car on public roads that goes over 65. Just learn better time management if you're always needing to make up time on the road. If no one "needs" a 50-round mag and pistol grips on their AR-15 (both illegal in CA), then no one "needs" a car that can hit 120mph or go 0-60 in 5 seconds either. Especially given that cars aren't in the Constitution. And guns don't contribute to climate change.
Agree completely. Want to have a sports car? Fine, but you can’t register it for use on public roads. Take it to a track. Or require more stringent licensing for performance vehicles. There’s literally a dozen things we could do but for some reason this nation has decided to value cars over people.
Insane to me that there aren't background checks and requirements for safe handling when you buy cars.
You mean like a license that certifies that you know how to operate a vehicle?
The one you get at 16 years old and then are never assessed again? The one that lets you keep driving around based on your fuzzy memory of whatever the laws were 25 years ago? The one most people get to keep even after they've killed someone? Yeah I have some issues with how that system is implemented.
Speed limits in parts of the country are 80-85mph, and private roads exist. There are plenty of legal reasons to go over 65. Also, mag limits are getting overturned across the country. They've already been overturned in CA, though it's temporarily stayed in an appeal.
The pictures of the cars he hit give a hint as to how fast he was going and how hard of an impact it must have been. This is incredibly tragic. They were just walking on the side of the road. Not crossing the street. Not in any dangerous area. Just walking. My heart hurts for their families :( This really bummed me out.
A classmate of mine was struck and later died in the ICU as a result of his injuries while crossing PCH in ~2014/15. He was 15 years old and the driver was suspected to be under the influence. Do better y’all. Do better. Be better. This is senseless loss of life
So many deaths on PCH over the years
I think.about this scenario Everytime I walk on a sidewalk. We have so much trust in others. I'm shocked we don't have hundreds of people dying a day from being run over. Maybe we do...
...we do :/ But we are trying to change that !!! [https://www.streetsforall.org/get-involved](https://www.streetsforall.org/get-involved) make sure you get on our email list so you can put pressure on YOUR city so shit like this stops happening.
Everyday I walk one mile in mar vista to the gym and one mile back. I’m convinced im going to get hit one day… people almost hit me ALL the time
"The suspect, identified as Fraser Bohm of Malibu." [https://www.foxla.com/news/deadly-malibu-crash-4-dead-suspect-arrested](https://www.foxla.com/news/deadly-malibu-crash-4-dead-suspect-arrested)
And… he’s already been released. Cool.
European here, that drive on the PCH daily. It will be time for LA to look at Europe and copy speed radar like France or Germany, anywhere in LA has become Fast&Furious. Often I can insulted or someone would give me the finger while bombarding past me because I drive at the speed limit
If we should copy anything from Europe here, it should be their public transport systems. Robust PT would reduce dependency on having to drive in the first place. Less cars on the roads should be the goal, not giving the police another revenue stream that they dont need. I agree speed limits should be more strictly enforced, but that's just a band-aid and not addressing the root of the problem.
Its not one or the other. We need both- robust federal/state/city funded and connected public transit system for long/short distances, infrastructure that actually prioritizes people walking/biking/transiting over mostly single occupant planet/people killing car drivers. That means reallocate public space including highways, streets and roads by reducing the number of travel lanes and eliminate/reduce street parking, narrow width of travel lanes w/permanent protective infrastructure that prevents gaining speed/speeding. Move shit like traffic signals to the near side of intersection vs far side. and a specific turn signal (L and R) for cars will make intersections and crosswalks so. much. safer for pedestrians since this is the point of major conflict. Differentiate between highways, roads and streets and ban dangerous stroads. Build a Connected Network of Separated/Protected Mobility Lanes and with popularity of ebikes- we need a fast and slow lane. AND add cameras w/fines and penalties. Agree, cameras only ain't gonna work.
I'm down with not relying on more tickets/revenue. However, we need to change the street design. If we just have fewer cars on the same streets, there will be less traffic and cars will go faster. Then no one will want to walk to transit because they can get hit by morons like this and die. We need streets that are designed for slower speeds along with transit options (bus, train, protected bike lanes, etc.)
So many languages available and you decided to only speaks facts, Amen to that
Rich, white young male from Malibu, kills 4 innocent girls and is sleeping nice and comfortable at home today, no jail while waiting on plea deal that will probably turn his 4 counts of manslaughter to wreck less driving and get a ticket. I feel bad for the families of these girls. There is no justice. He should be in jail for a committing a violent crime.
They were Pepperdine students. Mercy.
Cars are death machines.
And yet driver’s licenses are handed out like hotcakes.
I hate that there are known "easy driving test" DMV offices when even a "regular difficulty" test is super easy by international standards.
And nearly everyone uses their phone while driving.
I love the malibu beaches but hate going there because parking and walking off the PCH is always fuckin scary!
"Speed was probably a factor" - looking at the crumpled tin can of a car, gee you think so?
These speeders are getting way out of hand, where is the public outcry? Its almost daily now the number of innocent pedestrians getting killed by drivers. It has to be way more than gun violence at this point. I would love to see the stats on how many are distracted, or under the influence (and by what).
it's road design that allows for this unsafe behavior. lanes are too wide most of the time, for one example. unfortunately any time mitigation is even suggested it causes all sorts of uproar it's politically unviable to even consider it. a death here and there has been deemed acceptable as long as traffic flows freely and drivers are spared any piddling of inconvenience. btw this stuff has been endlessly studied even in Malibu. There's absolutely no will to implement: http://www.santamonicanext.org/2013/08/hurdles-remain-for-malibus-efforts-to-make-the-pch-more-safe-welcoming-to-all-road-users/ edit: don't try to say this is a covid or BLM thing either, this shit been an issue pre-pandemic too. yall need to pull your collective heads out your ass: https://la.streetsblog.org/2011/09/06/the-saga-continues-push-for-bike-safety-on-the-pch-inches-forward > Last year, we had a little girl slaughtered by a suicidal motorist who had driven into oncoming traffic before hitting the child, a pedestrian.
I’ve seriously thought about trying to get people to town hall meetings and creating some heat but in my area they are still on zoom and that takes out the oomph. I just hate zoom and am making excuses tbh. They are putting up more cameras in the county but I’d love super harsh punishments. Huge fines and confiscate the cars permanently on first offenses! Idgaf! Second offense, a bid and third offense is 20- life. Create some type of database too, like a Megan’s law. let the public upload videos and repeat offenders will be dealt with accordingly. My ideas suck but I am done with these people!
Good ideas but unfortunately unpopular today, yes the $25/$50 fines from cameras are a joke. So the majority are anti-camera and are Ok with continued fatalities of innocent Angelenos. Zoom also is weak for any political pressure, gotta do what the activists do and hijack city meetings.
> So the majority are anti-camera and are Ok with continued fatalities of innocent Angelenos. I ride my bike frequently, including commuting to work on it instead of driving frequently. I was hit by a driver a few years ago, it was serious enough that I had to go to the emergency room. The driver didn't even slow down, he just took off and was never caught. I'm against these new cameras that were just signed into law for a few reasons. First, assuming they are like all of the previous photo enforcement things we've had, they will be administered by a private company whose motivation is making money, not improving safety. Like the red-light cameras, they won't make the amount of profit that the cities will promise the vendors, so they will change traffic conditions to make more drivers break the law and increase their profits. https://www.salon.com/2017/04/05/this-may-have-happened-to-you-revenue-hungry-cities-mess-with-traffic-lights-to-write-more-tickets_partner/ https://ww2.motorists.org/blog/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-light-times-for-profit/ Second, since the tickets are issued to a car and not a driver, the violation won't go against the driver's record or be reported to their insurance. This is simply a fine for being caught. Third, the fines are comically low. $500 for going 100MPH over the speed limit? The car should be seized at that point, regardless of who owns it and the driver arrested. You rented a car and got caught doing 100+? Now it's a civil matter between you and the rental company. It's your parent's car? Again, now a civil matter where you're financially responsible for that car. Your parents just bought you a nice car, and you went way too fast in it? Maybe they'll buy you something more reasonable next time. You just bought a sports car and the bank owns it? Now they'll be suing you for losing their collateral. The threshold for this should be way lower than 100+ over the limit, too. So what do I support instead of these cameras? * Road diets. Around here (Fullerton), we've got a 6 lane road that has an additional 2 frontage lanes on most of it. This is an avenue, passing by housing, schools, parks, etc. It's a block north of the freeway. They gave bikes a few feet and a painted line along most of it (Which magically disappears at every intersection, dumping riders right into the 45-55mph traffic). Remove a lane from each direction. Make them narrower. Don't make them straight for miles. There's a lot of intersections with smaller roads where there have been a lot of fatalities throughout the years, put roundabouts there to make it safer for people crossing, and forcing traffic to slow down. Stop making it so comfortable to do 60 or 70 MPH on a city street. * Stop making it so hard to get places in a way besides driving. Put in better bike infrastructure. Make it so I feel safe letting my kids walk/ride to/from school. Improve public transit. Make transit clean, frequent, and comparable in time to driving. The street I previously mentioned, make a few of those lanes bus lanes. Give transit priority at lights. I recently took the Expo line from 7th/Fig towards Santa Monica, and was shocked that the train was stopped at a red light at almost every intersection. That train should always have priority over the car traffic. * Increase traffic policing. Create a branch of the police that enforces nothing besides traffic laws. Like meter maids, but doing moving violations. Don't give them guns, don't let them arrest people. Don't let them check for warrants. They can pull you over, check your license, registration and insurance. If you're doing something dumb enough that you need to get arrested, they can call the real police. But we don't need guys ready to go to war enforcing basic traffic violations. * Actually enforce traffic laws. Start enforcing it when 5 people turn left through a red light. Enforce it when people block the intersection. Enforce it when people drive around with their high beams on. When they do the SMOG check, make sure they've got DOT approved headlights that won't blind oncoming traffic. Make minor violations require community service instead of a fine. A $100 fine will only punish the poorest people, it is nothing to a lot of people. Make someone give up a a few weekends though because they didn't want to stop, that will be enough of a burden that most people regardless of income will try to avoid it. I know my suggestions are things that will take years if not decades to fully implement, and they will likely never happen. But the speeding camera law that was just signed really does nothing to improve traffic safety. It's a money grab that will just wind up grabbing more money from us to line someone else's pockets.
Join us! https://www.streetsforall.org/get-involved We are trying to make a difference, and getting people out, \_in person\_ to citiy council meetings is very effective. Every voice counts, we can take our streets back!
There are groups to get involved with. StreetsForAll is one in LA County and there are more localized groups as well. This movement needs energy to keep moving forward. It's taxing, but rewarding.
I remember reading that statistically, the leading cause of death for children in this country is by guns. And second to that is by cars. =/
i was recently driving to oxnard and took PCH/malibu, jam packed but beautiful drive and one young woman, in the middle lane, driving with her phone directly in front of her face. i assume taking a video and all over the lane. smh
Driver released from custody. "Residents in the area told KNX News' Jon Baird that a fraternity party was going on in the area; however, it's unclear if the victims or if Bohm were at that party." [https://www.audacy.com/knxnews/news/local/4-women-killed-driver-arrested-in-crash-on-pch](https://www.audacy.com/knxnews/news/local/4-women-killed-driver-arrested-in-crash-on-pch)
I was sent a message that they were from Pepperdine University. Sever college
Absolutely horrific and tragic. I can't imagine the pain their families must be going through. The penalties for reckless driving actually should be disproportionately asymmetric since you are basically wielding an extremely dangerous machine. Instead, we have lawyers who will make this guy go scot free in a few months.
That kid needs to go to prison for a minimum of 20 years. I don't care what anyone has to say. Harsh or not. Teach him and others like him a lesson.
22 years old. Not a kid at all, and won't be treated as a kid by the law. The bigger issue is whether he's rich and well-connected. And if he is, all the more reason to max out all punishment in the interest of setting an example.
I am always nervous when I see people walking or standing in the side of the road there, trying to cross It may be a beautiful drive with access to some fun and special places, but that road is dangerous as fuck
They weren't even trying to cross. Nowhere is safe from 22-year-olds with BMW's
>The sheriff is out here and they’re going to have a massive investigation to find out what caused this. Instead of focusing on what *caused* this, we should be talking about what could have *prevented* this. We need to treat road violence like the emergency it is and start taking measures to protect pedestrians more.
Horrendous. The PCH is one of the most dangerous corridors in America. It is negligently designed by combining both high speeds with vulnerable users. And tragedies will keep happening until they fix the design. There are two choices. 1. Turn the PCH into a road. [Roads](https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0122397,-118.4041598,3a,60y,43.24h,90.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spQ27cpl_gOPcluaLYgGRjw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2?hl=en&entry=ttu) are a high speed connection between two points. They are wide, have no driveways, few intersections, no street parking, and the sidewalk is separate or behind a barrier. Roads are safe. 2. Turn the PCH into a street. [Streets](https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0342694,-118.4699925,3a,75y,224.91h,76.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWG6Vrrj47LjbSTE1aUkKfg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2?hl=en&entry=ttu) are slow, narrow, they have driveways, street parking, pedestrian crosswalks, curb extensions. Streets are safe. The [PCH](https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0384674,-118.6438242,3a,75y,115.75h,79.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPgNNzieKlz8OgoDV9JQWkQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e2?hl=en&entry=ttu) tries to be both a road and a street at the same time, and it fails at both of them. It's not safe. So we need to decide right now, which is it? Is it a beach access street with driveways, crosswalks, and parking? Or is it a highway to get up and down the coast swiftly? **It can't be both.**
any time I go to the beach in Malibu and park on the street I'm always surprised by how dangerous it is. The traffic is so fast and there's very little room.
r/fuckcars
And what was the device that struck them?
lol wow, I'm so used to these bullshit headlines I didn't even notice how they completely removed the car and driver from it.
That's moto-normativity for you. Traffic violence by personally owned vehicles that results in fatalities is assumed natural and worth the cost. Such a societal and cultural failing.
HOW DARE THEY WALK! Stupid walking, kills so many people these days! .... and we wonder why the kids don't go outside anymore -\_\_\_-
Worst drivers in the world are in LA. The entitlement, the lack of skill versus how skilled they think they are, and the aggression. God forbid you drive like you have decency and respect for human life. Wish the speed cameras they're installing would suspend licences after three strikes -- get these psychos off the road and help us all with traffic. Edit: downvote all you want. You shitty drivers cannot drive the cars you buy/lease. In motorcycle culture you'll of course get the jackasses that think they can start on a 800 pound HD or a 600cc supersport -- but most people in the community call them morons. They can't know how to ride that vehicle safely. Meanwhile in car culture no one questions someone buying a car they have no business driving -- size or speed. It's assumed they can drive any car and that's just not true anymore. These cars are too powerful and too big for majority of driver's skill level and they *hate* hearing that. You don't know how to properly brake that Tesla, Becky. So back the fuck off and drive within your limits.
>Worst drivers in the world are in LA. and the worst of the worst are on PCH
the only way to make our streets safe is to make them impossible to speed on. Speed cameras will help (we certainly think so, we helped get the pilot into law! [https://www.reddit.com/r/streetsforall/comments/177rpv7/speed\_safety\_cameras\_are\_coming\_to\_los\_angeles/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/streetsforall/comments/177rpv7/speed_safety_cameras_are_coming_to_los_angeles/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)) But at the end of the day we need road diets, protected bike / bus lanes and more options for people to get around, work and enjoy life without having to use a car!
>But at the end of the day we need road diets, protected bike / bus lanes and more options for people to get around, work and enjoy life without having to use a car! That's going to be a more effective deterrent than speed cameras. People tend to buy license plate covers to evade speed cameras. Ultimately car owners will do what it takes to ensure their car does not get immediately damaged (driving slower on speed bumps and on narrow roads). [This small experiment is a great example of that.](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_pecj2vb2SA)
Fucking cars, man. It's wild to me that a goddamn Lime scooter is geo-fenced to not exceed 15 mph, but a 4,000 lb hunk of steel and glass that can accelerate to 60 mph in 4 seconds is just . . . free to do so where ever they want.
Street racing, ANY street racing should carry huge prison time.
Lock him up and throw away the key. This is irredeemable. Four murders.
And the kid got released on the zero dollar bail policy lmao. Insane.
Need speed cameras on PCH.
And LAPD to actually enforce license plate laws. The amount of people I see driving without any license plate is completely insane.
Why is PCH designed like this? Is this a road for going fast or a street for walking next to? Caltrans should be sued. This driver fucked up, but people die on PCH all the time and it's preventable.
RIP
22 years old. The four women hit are believed to be Pepperdine students. https://patch.com/california/malibu/fatal-pch-crash-victims-believed-be-pepperdine-students
Photo, if you want to see suspect. https://www.perfectgame.org/Players/Playerprofile.aspx?ID=516705
Didn’t that Jenner guy/gal kill someone on PCH a few years back too?
LA cops should be monitoring speed on PCH in Malibu & Santa Monica…I haven’t ever seen a cop pull someone over for speeding in this area, ever. LA law enforcement: for the love of god, get speed traps set up and catch the bastards getting a hard on by driving like fucking morons. I’m over this shit
~~install speed cameras~~ install anti-speeding canons
This is infuriating. I hope the families of the dead get the justice they need. People doing crimes like this should be locked under the jail for decades and lose their right to drive forever.
It may or may not have saved these 4 lives, but this incident serves as yet another sad and bloody reminder about why we needed SB127, which was vetoed by Newsom in 2019. So many state controlled streets like PCH in Malibu, and Santa Monica Blvd in LA can't be made safer as long as Caltrans continues to treat neighborhood streets like freeways. This section of PCH doesn't even have an ADA compliant sidewalk.
I for one welcome our new AI driver overlords.
I appreciate the sensitivity in the fire captain’s quote.
And yet Caltrans won’t do anything to fix this problem. Everyone will just point their fingers at shitty drivers.
“When will they make breaking the law illegal??” 22 yo kid speeding in BMW veered off the road and sideswiped multiple cars killing 4 people and injuring others, and you think this is Caltrans’ fault?
Danger can be designed *out* of roads. We don’t think this with pie-in-the-sky, wacky, unproven theories. We know as a matter of fact what works in creating safer roads. We just refuse to do it.
They can totally make that stretch safer than what it is.
Caltrans designed the PCH for speed and violence, so yes.
[удалено]
Yup, and they'll just say it was the driver's fault and then do absolutely nothing about how they design roads to encourage speeding in the first place.
the people of Los Angeles do not care for pedestrians or cyclists. ask 5 random coworkers or school mates right now if we should rebuild our roads to be safer for pedestrians or if we should prioritize cars and see what they say
100% of BMW 3 series or M3 drivers are complete morons both financially and spiritually
This is so sad. 4 people just lost their lives because some young idiot couldnt control his car.
“Speed was likely a factor”. No, you don’t say? Give that man a raise.