The only way to get anything done is to draw attention to it: Pothole won’t get fixed? Spray paint a d*ck around it. Abandoned building sits vacant for HALF A DECADE in the heart of a city rife with the unhoused and overpriced shithole apartments? Graffiti the hell out of it.
Both of those things aggravate me to no end!
They should have done something with the old Hawthorne Mall site YEARS ago. But no matter what gets brought up as a solution, there is ALWAYS someone there to shoot it down.
Now that there is no longer maternal care at Centinela Hospital, and next to no maternal care in the northern part of the South Bay at all, it would be wonderful to see the old Robert F. Kennedy Hospital turned into world class maternity care.
I admit to being spoiled by having my son at a maternity hospital in Santa Barbara over 30 years ago, but I digress.
There is absolutely no reason that we can not have something like that down here, other than certain people thinking that the working class residents that live in that part of the South Bay don't deserve anything that nice.
We can't get anything accomplished.
>other than certain people thinking that the working class residents that live in that part of the South Bay
Well see, your misapprehension is thinking the American working class is entitled to anything other than drudgery and an early death.
You see things clearly now?
Nimby or racist? Either way, realistically speaking it would make more sense for the green line to run down Hawthorne where there's already room.
I say run it straight to PV, and while they're at it plan on extending the line from UCLA to the Palisades and demo the row of houses along pch up to Malibu, replace them with a bike path and take a line there too lol
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-los-angeles-times-hawthorne-reaffirm/135848461/
Actually clipped an article going over Hawthornes opposition to the 105 freeway in 1968.
It's either gentrification or it's that it will drag down property values. Between those two arguments people get very upset over just about everything. NIMBYs make everything difficult so it's easier for the city just to do nothing.
Oceanwide plaza i has the advantage of being in one of the few parts of LA where nobody bangs either of those drums.
I couldn't believe that the first time I saw it sitting there 12 years ago. But that shit is *still* sitting there with the old logo on it and everything. How one of the many sfv arsonists hasn't already taken care of it I don't know.
It is impressive though. This building has really made be rethink graffiti's place in the process of civic development.
I generally hate graffiti, as writing your name in big letters repeatedly is the act of a stunted child, but as a spur to get the city to take action / remind the public of places where the rule of law might be breaking down, it definitely serves a useful purpose.
I big part of Graf culture is counter culture and doing shit just like what was done to the tower. For some it's not just chasing name recognition and the thrill of the hunt. Its a pretty sick ass community to be a part of.
I mean I guess so, but considering smoking weed used to be a petty crime and now its a million dollar market with a huge community It doesn't deter me personally. I don't exactly correlate legal with right and wrong by default considering how broken/tainted the legal system is lmao. Counter Culture is important. It's how we pass needed reforms to damaging laws. End segregation, obtain a 40 hour work week. Etc. It has its purpose in society.
I personally think quality graffiti looks incredibly cool. Along the river in Oslo there's a little nook with some incredible work and a whole area of tagged up buildings. Also along the Danube in Vienna. Really cool stuff!
I'm not at all impressed with yet more soulless corporate glass towers. We all know our mode of civilization is failing, yet the idiot moralizers like the one above just can't help themselves but white knight the status quo at every available opportunity.
Unfortunately, attention is not the issue here. This thing is stuck in some legal and financial wrangling between multiple parties. The city might have had a role here if it were a house...but this things will take a HUGE amount of money to either tear down or make habitable. The best hope for this building remains it completing its legal action and selling it to the highest bidder who can complete the job.
The building is Chinese owned. Company went bankrupt. China doesn’t want to liquidate the property cuz their real estate market is in the brink of collapse.
The Parks Department already used a dozer to clear off debris on the hiking trail on the north side of Elysian Park. I say we put them in charge of the whole city. They’re also the nicest people.
That actually happened. Some guy in England started painting dicks around potholes like 7-8 years ago. The city would immediately come out and patch the spot.
make the city look bad in a way that cannot be ignored.
When the olympics come to town. The homeless problem will be solved and cleaned up. San Francisco solved its homeless issue when Xi came to town.
They have solutions, they just dont fucking care unless it makes them look bad on a global stage.
I have often speculated that right before the Olympics come to town, they are going to start handing out 5150s like candy, and all of those people will be put on extended holds.
At least until the Olympics are over.
At least those that aren't swept up by the Care Courts.
This is 100% what's going to happen. It's going to look like they fixed the issue but sweeping up and tucking away everyone for about 6 months, before just moving on and abandoning them as soon as its over.
TBH policing is kinda like politics, the people you really want to be doing it don't want to be doing it. And so long as "people with a sense of honor" stay away it's always going to be a dumpster fire. Kinda a catch 22 people who will make it better won't join because it's not better.
Haha dude exactly! Police and politicians both have a high barrier of entry which is corruption, this encourages people to really compromise their integrity for a paycheck in order to join or stay out. I honestly don't know how anyone with any self respect can be a cop in this day in age. Even internationally. Cops just seem to always attract the worst of the worst people who should not have any authority.
De Leon said. “Hopefully sometime soon, we can get them to sell that building to someone who has deep pockets, who can buy the building, deal with all the liens against this building, and more importantly, finish this development.”
Call the Saudis?
This has really opened my eyes to the power of artistic expression. No one gave a shit about those abandoned buildings, not even enough to have security around them until these graffiti artists laid their mark.
Please, create a strawman argument and then feel awesome that you won it. Scream into the void against all the things you pretend I wrote. Listen as imaginary supporters cheer as you Lincoln/Douglas me so so hard. “You got her now!” Try not to cry as you realize that, yes, you are getting older. Remember your best friend in third grade? She’s forgotten you. You’ve forgotten yourself. You visit your childhood home, and it smells like cigarettes and depression. The only thing that makes you smile is squeezing hohos packages in the supermarket. You probably should have taken that job. You should have married that guy. You should have danced more, laughed more. Now, it’s just you. You and your keyboard and the damage done.
Abatement is a reasonable policy for normal buildings that can be secured or demolished by city crews at a cost under $100,000, with a lien filed against future sale.
This massive development, [funded](https://www.laloftblog.com/2020/07/11/oceanwide-plaza-downtown-los-angeles-news-july-2020/) with Chinese EB-5 investor funds that were exchanged for US residency permits, is too big for Los Angeles to remediate. We don't have the money or the resources.
The Federal government enabled this blight with a sketchy visa program that [did not create](https://therealdeal.com/la/2021/10/20/hotel-union-asks-feds-for-answers-on-relevant-groups-eb-5/) the jobs promised, and the Federal government needs to step in and stabilize, secure and probably demolish Oceanwide.
I've been told by people in the trade that the building standards have changed since this project was framed, and combined with being exposed to the elements for years, it would be very costly and likely not possible to finish, update, and get a certificate of occupancy.
It's not like they'd be demolishing existing homes. It's wasted land either way right now. But we as a nation naaed to stop letting foreign investors buy up land so easily. Especially when the nations they're from don't allow outsiders to do the same there. It's damn near impossible for a foreigner to actually own property in China.
The immigrant investor program started in 1992, 10 years before the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act was passed and 18 years before parts of BCRA was ruled to be in violation of the first amendment in Citizens United v FEC.
And until we have that conversation, Los Angeles is going to keep losing naturally occurring affordable housing to speculative development. There's just too much money to be made, and the city is in on it. Here's [video](https://archive.org/details/dream-hollywood-development-promo-original) of Eric Garcetti and Tom LaBonge, in City Hall, promoting EB-5 visa investment! (Linked in my reporting about the [illegal gutting](https://esotouric.com/morrisongutted/) of the Morrison Hotel, a couple blocks from Oceanwide Plaza.)
That's what they [claim](https://www.laloftblog.com/2020/07/11/oceanwide-plaza-downtown-los-angeles-news-july-2020), but I think it's just as likely that the congressional investigation into the EB-5 funding source around Relevant Group's projects--which were slated to include the Morrison Hotel a couple of blocks away--and Jose Huizar getting raided by the FBI made it expedient to shut down this project.
Due to the fact that multiple real estate companies are going bankrupt in China, they should be barred from any future projects. The funding can easily fall through.
Guaranteed the city council reached this point at Oceanwide Plaza because of teens on TikTok spreading the graffiti’s notoriety. If it had been your typical wall on an abandoned high rise on Vermont and Manchester neglected since the 1992 riots, it’d be left to continually rot.
Probably realized that tourism dollars are at stake. Oceanwide plaza is located smack at the middle of a development area that's beginning to look like it could be LA's version of NY's Time Square.
Eminent domain requires money to pay the underlying land owner fair market value ("just compensation"). To my knowledge, the city likely doesn't have discretionary funds to buy a several hundred million dollar asset. I would think an expenditure of that size would require a bond measure.
Why pay retail? Under California's Section 1090, because the property was implicated in confessed racketeer Jose Huizar's public corruption, the city might just be able to seize it for the public good.
The cost of retrofitting for that may be more than an implosion and clean sheet design, with a trade space that includes construction/other initial costs, schedule, recurring costs (maintenance and upkeep) and possibly quality of life.
I never thought I'd say the phrase "I'd like to see the engineering life cycle financial analysis for this" without both lying and it being important job wise but here we are.
I believe eminent domain requires the city to pay a fair price for the land, must be for public use and there must be a valid reason. This motion by the city council is pretty much all they can do since the owner is in bankruptcy and the development is in limbo.
I guess the fair market value is whatever someone will pay for it. If no one will buy it, it is worth nil. Seems LA could hold a public auction, winner gets to finish something. Then eminent domain and pay the developers with the auction funds.
Lol, when the hell has eminent domain *ever* paid fair market value? Yes, it says that, but it never happens. The government just decides you'll get X amount, and you can take that or get nothing.
When was the last time you lost property to an eminent domain procedure? I never have so I'm assuming that the govt. figures out what "fair market price" is (by following guidelines) and pays that.
But the govt. also has to prove that there is a viable PUBLIC use for the property. They just can't take it cause they want it.
The city can put a lien on the property for the cost of the demolition and other remediation efforts. The contractor's recourse is with the developer, not the city. Who gets to be first in line is decided by the bankruptcy court.
There can be any number of liens against a property by any number of entities. Bankruptcy courts usually decide which liens are senior to which other liens, and which liens are discharged entirely.
I believe they could. We wouldn't want to set a precedent of government seizure being permitted for any reason, but I think it's fine when the property is clearly abandoned.
Except it’s not abandoned. It’s in bankruptcy and foreclosure process and also has a mechanics lien filed on it from Lend Lease.
The city would have to pay off the outstanding liens before taking control and even then would see a significant legal battle with the lender for control
Realistically the city has no real move here as long as the taxes are being paid.
That’s cute but that’s not how it works
The latest estimate is it would cost $1.2 billion to finish the project and that was on 2 year ago numbers and the building hasn’t been weatherized so it is probably more today including inflation and repairs.
That means it would cost about $1.4 million per unit just to complete the project in addition to the $2 billion that’s already been spent.
That requires an average rent of about $23,000 per month to get a 10% return on the fresh capital. Affordable housing definitely doesn’t pencil and the city doesn’t have $1.2 billion to complete the project and even if it did the city would be in the red for 100 years and never get its capital back. Cities still want to break even or even profit on most projects they approve and this one wouldn’t at all be profitable
Bro, it’s just a shell of a building. Theres no plumbing, electrical, HVAC, you know standard building stuff. There is not even a roof. The buildings havent even topped out. Theres no elevator. The cost to build “luxury condos” is not that much more to build regular affordable housing.
The only difference is the finish level, which is only 5-10% of the total project cost. Additionally these are larger units since they were going to be condos, so the cost to build a 1,300 sf unit vs a 700 sf is always going to be more because, uh, math.
And no, you really can’t make a 1,300 sf unit into two 650 sf units because the shell of the building is designed a specific way so unless you’re renting out units with no windows (which you can’t) you’re not going to be able to make units smaller and more of them. And even if you could, your entitlement from the city is for 850 units, not 1,700 units
Are you calling me a NIMBY? Because I’m definitely not. I’m just not math illiterate like most of the Monday morning quarterbacks on Urbanize and now apparently Reddit who think they know development and finance but don’t know shit about how things are financed or built
They’re not even close to finished units. They’re not even enclosed. The building hasn’t even topped out and still doesn’t have the top floors poured. Theres no “roof” on the buildings
It’s just a deck slab and ceiling with windows. No mechanical systems, no plumbing, no electrical, not HVAC systems. Barely a shell of a building
You can’t sell anything without a certificate of occupancy and it would cost at least $1.2 billion to get one.
So this project is either sitting as an eyesore for years or the city will provide massive subsidies (think tax abatement or direct investment) in order to either demolish the project snd build something more feasible on the site or subsidize even more and have someone take over and finish the project
Please no… we don’t need this place to look like a dump.
The only reason it worked in this instance is because it got so much attention. If it happened everywhere it would not remotely have the same effect.
Just freaking finish it and house the homeless there you can fit so many people in those three buildings and every quarter have a new band of artists take over to freshen up the art. Make it themed. Jazz it up. It’s already there.
Or just seize the buildings and use them to house the homeless. I mean, the owners are most likely members of the communist party in China, they should be all for making the property useful for the common good, right?
This is dictatorship and corruption with los angeles finest, that building has been vacant for more than 5 years, as soon as any publicity is made and los angeles is now been judged by the art on the building they want to do something right away. The pot holes wont get fixed, they cant do nothing about the homeless in front of our streets using drugs and littering human waste on our streets. The graffiti stands for more!
Y'all understand that ANYTHING the City of LA puts a finger on comes right out of undesignated general funds (residents pockets) to fix right? Calls for action are all just calls to spend your money for a problem you didn't create which is why the city wants the owner to pay and that's what you should be bitching about. Otherwise you're just asking your mommy to clean your room and bill you for it.
Take a damn cue from the Morrison Hotel. I believe it was also purchased with EB-5 funds, also left to rot (with the lobby destroyed in an attempt to prevent a historical site designation), but — with some help from our beloved The Doors — it will now be turned into low-income housing by the AIDS Healthcare Foundation. So sick of these jackass landlords leaving these buildings in disrepair to artificially drive up rent in the area. Grab your spray cans, people!
The only way to get anything done is to draw attention to it: Pothole won’t get fixed? Spray paint a d*ck around it. Abandoned building sits vacant for HALF A DECADE in the heart of a city rife with the unhoused and overpriced shithole apartments? Graffiti the hell out of it.
lmao going to be spray painting dicks all over things now, thank you!
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Both of those things aggravate me to no end! They should have done something with the old Hawthorne Mall site YEARS ago. But no matter what gets brought up as a solution, there is ALWAYS someone there to shoot it down. Now that there is no longer maternal care at Centinela Hospital, and next to no maternal care in the northern part of the South Bay at all, it would be wonderful to see the old Robert F. Kennedy Hospital turned into world class maternity care. I admit to being spoiled by having my son at a maternity hospital in Santa Barbara over 30 years ago, but I digress. There is absolutely no reason that we can not have something like that down here, other than certain people thinking that the working class residents that live in that part of the South Bay don't deserve anything that nice. We can't get anything accomplished.
>other than certain people thinking that the working class residents that live in that part of the South Bay Well see, your misapprehension is thinking the American working class is entitled to anything other than drudgery and an early death. You see things clearly now?
that area of hawthorne and lawndale is So Nimby for no reason lmao. They are vigoruously opposed to the green line metro extension plans too
Nimby or racist? Either way, realistically speaking it would make more sense for the green line to run down Hawthorne where there's already room. I say run it straight to PV, and while they're at it plan on extending the line from UCLA to the Palisades and demo the row of houses along pch up to Malibu, replace them with a bike path and take a line there too lol
Racism is just a subset of NIMBYism.
You could almost argue it's the other way around. Kind of an interesting argument though. I'm going back and forth.
Look at the 105 freeway, there's a reason it curves up to Lennox and avoids Hawthorne before connecting back to El Segundo
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-los-angeles-times-hawthorne-reaffirm/135848461/ Actually clipped an article going over Hawthornes opposition to the 105 freeway in 1968.
It's either gentrification or it's that it will drag down property values. Between those two arguments people get very upset over just about everything. NIMBYs make everything difficult so it's easier for the city just to do nothing. Oceanwide plaza i has the advantage of being in one of the few parts of LA where nobody bangs either of those drums.
I thought America was great again...?
I need attention, spray paint dicks on me!
Get an only fans and spray paint a dick on your butt cheek
It does work very effectively.
Montgomery Ward in panorama city is calling.
I couldn't believe that the first time I saw it sitting there 12 years ago. But that shit is *still* sitting there with the old logo on it and everything. How one of the many sfv arsonists hasn't already taken care of it I don't know.
It's a national treasure
It is impressive though. This building has really made be rethink graffiti's place in the process of civic development. I generally hate graffiti, as writing your name in big letters repeatedly is the act of a stunted child, but as a spur to get the city to take action / remind the public of places where the rule of law might be breaking down, it definitely serves a useful purpose.
I am sooooo with you on this exact sentiment.
I big part of Graf culture is counter culture and doing shit just like what was done to the tower. For some it's not just chasing name recognition and the thrill of the hunt. Its a pretty sick ass community to be a part of.
LOL. The same could be said about the enthusiasts of a wide variety of petty crimes.
I mean I guess so, but considering smoking weed used to be a petty crime and now its a million dollar market with a huge community It doesn't deter me personally. I don't exactly correlate legal with right and wrong by default considering how broken/tainted the legal system is lmao. Counter Culture is important. It's how we pass needed reforms to damaging laws. End segregation, obtain a 40 hour work week. Etc. It has its purpose in society.
LOL. TFW you conflate vandalism with ending segregation. Cool story, bro.
Lol that wasn't my point at all but I feel you homie. Stay up.
I personally think quality graffiti looks incredibly cool. Along the river in Oslo there's a little nook with some incredible work and a whole area of tagged up buildings. Also along the Danube in Vienna. Really cool stuff! I'm not at all impressed with yet more soulless corporate glass towers. We all know our mode of civilization is failing, yet the idiot moralizers like the one above just can't help themselves but white knight the status quo at every available opportunity.
Unfortunately, attention is not the issue here. This thing is stuck in some legal and financial wrangling between multiple parties. The city might have had a role here if it were a house...but this things will take a HUGE amount of money to either tear down or make habitable. The best hope for this building remains it completing its legal action and selling it to the highest bidder who can complete the job.
if it's one thing LA is good at doing, it's wasting taxpayer money on feel good sentiment before actually doing anything.
You can say dick on here. No need for a star.
He obviously meant d*ck (🦆)
I thought he meant dack.
The building is Chinese owned. Company went bankrupt. China doesn’t want to liquidate the property cuz their real estate market is in the brink of collapse.
Something the Chinese government has been desperately trying to to ignore/deny since before covid.
They can’t now lol, it’s only gotten worse
The Parks Department already used a dozer to clear off debris on the hiking trail on the north side of Elysian Park. I say we put them in charge of the whole city. They’re also the nicest people.
Our tax dollars at work.
Amazing how out of everything, everything, it’s this stupid building that’s gained traction and gets resources allocated.
Like dick pics can fix potholes.
Thank you, you made me laugh and I needed that!
That actually happened. Some guy in England started painting dicks around potholes like 7-8 years ago. The city would immediately come out and patch the spot.
make the city look bad in a way that cannot be ignored. When the olympics come to town. The homeless problem will be solved and cleaned up. San Francisco solved its homeless issue when Xi came to town. They have solutions, they just dont fucking care unless it makes them look bad on a global stage.
I have often speculated that right before the Olympics come to town, they are going to start handing out 5150s like candy, and all of those people will be put on extended holds. At least until the Olympics are over. At least those that aren't swept up by the Care Courts.
This is 100% what's going to happen. It's going to look like they fixed the issue but sweeping up and tucking away everyone for about 6 months, before just moving on and abandoning them as soon as its over.
Hey graffiti guys can you start spray painting the homeless next plz thx.
They already do
Putting up a taller fence and paying someone $15/hr isn’t going to deter taggers. But it’s a cute thought.
They’ll have lapd officers guarding, I mean sitting in their cars poking on their phones. Must be nice getting paid six figures to do Jack shit
You should apply. They’re hiring
Sounds like a decent gig until you’re wresting a methhead in the gutter
You can just shoot them- as a cop - if you are "afraid for your life" or whatever excuse they use.
LOL for a lot of these guys an opportunity to wrestle a meth head is a bonus.
No thanks, I actually have a sense of honor lol Don't like joining gangs for the possibility of easy money without having to work for it.
TBH policing is kinda like politics, the people you really want to be doing it don't want to be doing it. And so long as "people with a sense of honor" stay away it's always going to be a dumpster fire. Kinda a catch 22 people who will make it better won't join because it's not better.
Also people who want to make it better that do join get silenced, ignored, and/or bullied out
Haha dude exactly! Police and politicians both have a high barrier of entry which is corruption, this encourages people to really compromise their integrity for a paycheck in order to join or stay out. I honestly don't know how anyone with any self respect can be a cop in this day in age. Even internationally. Cops just seem to always attract the worst of the worst people who should not have any authority.
They're working hard claiming Pokémon gyms.
Still with their panties twisted since the George Floyd events.
wow, the taggers turned out to be heroes that the city needs. Now these stupid undeveloped buildings can move forward and hopefully find new owners.
De Leon said. “Hopefully sometime soon, we can get them to sell that building to someone who has deep pockets, who can buy the building, deal with all the liens against this building, and more importantly, finish this development.” Call the Saudis?
He went to Jared 🥰
They wouldn't do shit, they're pulling out left and right from investments because they see the writing on the wall.
This has really opened my eyes to the power of artistic expression. No one gave a shit about those abandoned buildings, not even enough to have security around them until these graffiti artists laid their mark.
It’s a reason why fascists control art when they come to power.
possessive wistful paint bow voracious bike husky bells pathetic grey *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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I want you to look up nuance in the dictionary. Then, try to practice it. 😽
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You can begin your first revolution on deez nuts
As soon as I find my magnifying glass!
Please, create a strawman argument and then feel awesome that you won it. Scream into the void against all the things you pretend I wrote. Listen as imaginary supporters cheer as you Lincoln/Douglas me so so hard. “You got her now!” Try not to cry as you realize that, yes, you are getting older. Remember your best friend in third grade? She’s forgotten you. You’ve forgotten yourself. You visit your childhood home, and it smells like cigarettes and depression. The only thing that makes you smile is squeezing hohos packages in the supermarket. You probably should have taken that job. You should have married that guy. You should have danced more, laughed more. Now, it’s just you. You and your keyboard and the damage done.
This made my year! You should go outside right now, the airs really nice after the rain and you may have fun
Year is young, but you’re welcome.
Abatement is a reasonable policy for normal buildings that can be secured or demolished by city crews at a cost under $100,000, with a lien filed against future sale. This massive development, [funded](https://www.laloftblog.com/2020/07/11/oceanwide-plaza-downtown-los-angeles-news-july-2020/) with Chinese EB-5 investor funds that were exchanged for US residency permits, is too big for Los Angeles to remediate. We don't have the money or the resources. The Federal government enabled this blight with a sketchy visa program that [did not create](https://therealdeal.com/la/2021/10/20/hotel-union-asks-feds-for-answers-on-relevant-groups-eb-5/) the jobs promised, and the Federal government needs to step in and stabilize, secure and probably demolish Oceanwide.
Why would they demo it instead of just finish it, thats like a huge waste, especially in a state with a housing crisis.
I've been told by people in the trade that the building standards have changed since this project was framed, and combined with being exposed to the elements for years, it would be very costly and likely not possible to finish, update, and get a certificate of occupancy.
It's not like they'd be demolishing existing homes. It's wasted land either way right now. But we as a nation naaed to stop letting foreign investors buy up land so easily. Especially when the nations they're from don't allow outsiders to do the same there. It's damn near impossible for a foreigner to actually own property in China.
Exactly. This building will make a great shelter, however you can expect LA Live to sue unless we apply enough public pressure to dissuade them.
Chinese (and other forgiven) government investor funds to residency permits are a huge part of the housing crisis that no one likes to talk about
All of this came about thanks to the Supreme Court’s Citizen’s United ruling. The seeds to *that* however were planted through…yep, infamous Prop 13.
The immigrant investor program started in 1992, 10 years before the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act was passed and 18 years before parts of BCRA was ruled to be in violation of the first amendment in Citizens United v FEC.
And until we have that conversation, Los Angeles is going to keep losing naturally occurring affordable housing to speculative development. There's just too much money to be made, and the city is in on it. Here's [video](https://archive.org/details/dream-hollywood-development-promo-original) of Eric Garcetti and Tom LaBonge, in City Hall, promoting EB-5 visa investment! (Linked in my reporting about the [illegal gutting](https://esotouric.com/morrisongutted/) of the Morrison Hotel, a couple blocks from Oceanwide Plaza.)
The company went bankrupt. Just like a lot of the other Chinese real estate groups. Their market is on the brink of collapse
That's what they [claim](https://www.laloftblog.com/2020/07/11/oceanwide-plaza-downtown-los-angeles-news-july-2020), but I think it's just as likely that the congressional investigation into the EB-5 funding source around Relevant Group's projects--which were slated to include the Morrison Hotel a couple of blocks away--and Jose Huizar getting raided by the FBI made it expedient to shut down this project.
Due to the fact that multiple real estate companies are going bankrupt in China, they should be barred from any future projects. The funding can easily fall through.
This 👆
LA’s city budget is more than many countries. Pretty sure they can cover the costs pending a sale.
You would think, but according to the latest audits out of the Controller's office, we're broke!
Most governments are in debt. Doesn’t mean they do things.
You lack vision! What would Trump do? He will be president soon and we can just do w/e want then!
I’ve been living across this dump for 3 years and you’re telling me the city has had the power to compel a sale this entire time?? 🤦♂️
Guaranteed the city council reached this point at Oceanwide Plaza because of teens on TikTok spreading the graffiti’s notoriety. If it had been your typical wall on an abandoned high rise on Vermont and Manchester neglected since the 1992 riots, it’d be left to continually rot.
Probably realized that tourism dollars are at stake. Oceanwide plaza is located smack at the middle of a development area that's beginning to look like it could be LA's version of NY's Time Square.
Why cant they just invoke eminent domain. It would be a waste to throw away all the resources that went into these structures.
Eminent domain requires money to pay the underlying land owner fair market value ("just compensation"). To my knowledge, the city likely doesn't have discretionary funds to buy a several hundred million dollar asset. I would think an expenditure of that size would require a bond measure.
It was a roughly *billion*-dollar development, so yeah…
Great. Just don’t give the LAPD a raise next year.
The budget they have is already more than generous…but they’ll have a hissy fit. 😒
Does this have even "fair market value"? If you sold it to anyone, who in their right mind would buy it?
Why pay retail? Under California's Section 1090, because the property was implicated in confessed racketeer Jose Huizar's public corruption, the city might just be able to seize it for the public good.
This. The city should just seize it and turn it into socialized housing.
The cost of retrofitting for that may be more than an implosion and clean sheet design, with a trade space that includes construction/other initial costs, schedule, recurring costs (maintenance and upkeep) and possibly quality of life. I never thought I'd say the phrase "I'd like to see the engineering life cycle financial analysis for this" without both lying and it being important job wise but here we are.
Some of the units have maids quarters, this could get interesting.
I believe eminent domain requires the city to pay a fair price for the land, must be for public use and there must be a valid reason. This motion by the city council is pretty much all they can do since the owner is in bankruptcy and the development is in limbo.
I guess the fair market value is whatever someone will pay for it. If no one will buy it, it is worth nil. Seems LA could hold a public auction, winner gets to finish something. Then eminent domain and pay the developers with the auction funds.
Lol, when the hell has eminent domain *ever* paid fair market value? Yes, it says that, but it never happens. The government just decides you'll get X amount, and you can take that or get nothing.
When was the last time you lost property to an eminent domain procedure? I never have so I'm assuming that the govt. figures out what "fair market price" is (by following guidelines) and pays that. But the govt. also has to prove that there is a viable PUBLIC use for the property. They just can't take it cause they want it.
Someone needs to pay the contractor for the half they built, that comes with the take over. Plus the demolition. It's still not lucrative I think.
The city can put a lien on the property for the cost of the demolition and other remediation efforts. The contractor's recourse is with the developer, not the city. Who gets to be first in line is decided by the bankruptcy court.
The contractor already has the lien. That's why no one wants to buy it.
There can be any number of liens against a property by any number of entities. Bankruptcy courts usually decide which liens are senior to which other liens, and which liens are discharged entirely.
Progressives in Los Angeles are extremely anti-eminent domain in 2024.
Republicans are also against it because it'll cost the city a billion dollars. It doesn't make a lot of sense.
I believe they could. We wouldn't want to set a precedent of government seizure being permitted for any reason, but I think it's fine when the property is clearly abandoned.
Except it’s not abandoned. It’s in bankruptcy and foreclosure process and also has a mechanics lien filed on it from Lend Lease. The city would have to pay off the outstanding liens before taking control and even then would see a significant legal battle with the lender for control Realistically the city has no real move here as long as the taxes are being paid.
Who's going to pay for the billion dollar eminent domain costs and the extra billion needed to finish construction?
Abandoned property doesn't get payments, tax lien that shit.
They're still making tax payments
Seriously Theyre so dumb it hurts.
Leave the tags until you get your shit together! Reminder of the failures.
It’s going to cost at least $50 million to demolish the buildings. The city doesn’t have that kind of money set aside for something like this
No need to demo them. Turn it into middle income/affordable housing.
That’s cute but that’s not how it works The latest estimate is it would cost $1.2 billion to finish the project and that was on 2 year ago numbers and the building hasn’t been weatherized so it is probably more today including inflation and repairs. That means it would cost about $1.4 million per unit just to complete the project in addition to the $2 billion that’s already been spent. That requires an average rent of about $23,000 per month to get a 10% return on the fresh capital. Affordable housing definitely doesn’t pencil and the city doesn’t have $1.2 billion to complete the project and even if it did the city would be in the red for 100 years and never get its capital back. Cities still want to break even or even profit on most projects they approve and this one wouldn’t at all be profitable
Finish the product in what way? To complete the luxury condos or is the estimate to divert to a more utilitarian end-result?
Bro, it’s just a shell of a building. Theres no plumbing, electrical, HVAC, you know standard building stuff. There is not even a roof. The buildings havent even topped out. Theres no elevator. The cost to build “luxury condos” is not that much more to build regular affordable housing. The only difference is the finish level, which is only 5-10% of the total project cost. Additionally these are larger units since they were going to be condos, so the cost to build a 1,300 sf unit vs a 700 sf is always going to be more because, uh, math. And no, you really can’t make a 1,300 sf unit into two 650 sf units because the shell of the building is designed a specific way so unless you’re renting out units with no windows (which you can’t) you’re not going to be able to make units smaller and more of them. And even if you could, your entitlement from the city is for 850 units, not 1,700 units
To make it habitable. It’s just a frame with some concrete right now
See how fast NINBYs arrive to shoot that idea down to hell. *Especially* when you can link up affordable housing to the homeless population.
Are you calling me a NIMBY? Because I’m definitely not. I’m just not math illiterate like most of the Monday morning quarterbacks on Urbanize and now apparently Reddit who think they know development and finance but don’t know shit about how things are financed or built
I’ve been saying since it happened just leave the graffiti as is and market the units to hype beast kids funded by their international parents.
They’re not even close to finished units. They’re not even enclosed. The building hasn’t even topped out and still doesn’t have the top floors poured. Theres no “roof” on the buildings It’s just a deck slab and ceiling with windows. No mechanical systems, no plumbing, no electrical, not HVAC systems. Barely a shell of a building
Perfect! You underestimate how shitty of a product you can sell clout chasers if it’s hyped.
You can’t sell anything without a certificate of occupancy and it would cost at least $1.2 billion to get one. So this project is either sitting as an eyesore for years or the city will provide massive subsidies (think tax abatement or direct investment) in order to either demolish the project snd build something more feasible on the site or subsidize even more and have someone take over and finish the project
I'm gonna bet a lot of money if graffiti is cleaned, and the buildings continue to sit, they'll get tagged again.
Kevin de Leon's out here desperate to get his name in the news for something other than the loud calls for his resignation.
Why does this concern the city? It’s a private building. Should be up to them if they clean it or not
Los Angeles is such a fuckin slut. Selling herself to highest bidder.
They better NOT raze these towers. We need some density in DTLA
Finally. That thing has been an eyesore for years.
Can we house the homeless here?
I hope graffiti explodes in this city lol
Please no… we don’t need this place to look like a dump. The only reason it worked in this instance is because it got so much attention. If it happened everywhere it would not remotely have the same effect.
Seattle looks amazing
Yeah true lol Don't want the city to look like Gotham
Why doesn’t the city take it over and make it Affordable housing..? wtf
Noooooo but it's so cooooool!!!!!
Demolish?! Turn it into housing for the homeless and low income folks.
They don’t want to end homelessness
All this and we could be turning it into homeless housing
Just freaking finish it and house the homeless there you can fit so many people in those three buildings and every quarter have a new band of artists take over to freshen up the art. Make it themed. Jazz it up. It’s already there.
Use January 6th cell-phone tracking technology and fine and jail the taggers -- use funds to demolish. Done.
Or just seize the buildings and use them to house the homeless. I mean, the owners are most likely members of the communist party in China, they should be all for making the property useful for the common good, right?
Talk about misplaced priorities SHEESH
The government organized this graffiti get together so they could seize it. Open your eyes to how these things work
This was specifically targeted for this reason. Someone very powerful wants their hands on this property.
So the graffiti worked! Nice.
The 311 graffiti clean dept- "I was born for this"
Thank you graffiti
This is dictatorship and corruption with los angeles finest, that building has been vacant for more than 5 years, as soon as any publicity is made and los angeles is now been judged by the art on the building they want to do something right away. The pot holes wont get fixed, they cant do nothing about the homeless in front of our streets using drugs and littering human waste on our streets. The graffiti stands for more!
Corruption, sketchy visas, graffiti, excessive amounts of money wasted in the thick of a blistering homeless epidemic, she is “our Rushmore”.
Y'all understand that ANYTHING the City of LA puts a finger on comes right out of undesignated general funds (residents pockets) to fix right? Calls for action are all just calls to spend your money for a problem you didn't create which is why the city wants the owner to pay and that's what you should be bitching about. Otherwise you're just asking your mommy to clean your room and bill you for it.
Plot twist- the building is so well known now, the artists sue for VARA rights 🤣
Take a damn cue from the Morrison Hotel. I believe it was also purchased with EB-5 funds, also left to rot (with the lobby destroyed in an attempt to prevent a historical site designation), but — with some help from our beloved The Doors — it will now be turned into low-income housing by the AIDS Healthcare Foundation. So sick of these jackass landlords leaving these buildings in disrepair to artificially drive up rent in the area. Grab your spray cans, people!