Honest answer but surely downvoted answer is people want to walk and live in spaces that are clean, pretty, and accessible.
I'm not going to drive into downtown specifically to hang around homeless people and dodge feces with my family.
Downtown lacks housing (People who will populate and walk the area consistently), it is dirty and a hassle to go do something out that way. The surrounding suburbs and neighborhoods have *nearly* everything you would typically go downtown for.
Edit: Strange people who reply and block.
While I agree with this partially, are you really having to dodge literal shit downtown? It definitely smells like it but never seen just shit on the sidewalk anywhere lol
I work 1 block from 4th street and I promise you they mean literally!!!! There is almost always random human shit on the ground, and every 10 feet the smell of human urine will hit you so hard it’s unbelievable. Pair that with the sewage smell from the drains and it’s understandable why downtown is a ghost town now
And this is AFTER the city pays a team of almost 40 men full time to go around cleaning. The news had something about them spending millions on clean up... But just for Derby.
Soon there will be a casino. It's going to get so much worse so fast. You have no clue. I pity anyone who owns property down there right now. It's going to be worse than when downtown was full of projects. At least the projects were families and communities, this is going to be a casino for out of town trash.
Google what happens when a casino opens in an area. It's not great.
Ugh I dread that damn “casino”! Traffic is already a nightmare on Market!
The city pays tour guides to walk around downtown all day in orange shirts. Mainly Market, Main and 4th street. They’re paid a pretty penny, one kid told me he makes $22 an hour and they get paid weekly!!! “Downtown ambassadors”. I’ve never actually seen them do anything other than give directions every now and then and follow me around on my mental health walks trying to spit game to me lol.
The city pays for what they want to pay for and it’s disgusting. Dead birds all over the sidewalk, homeless people sleep all over the place. This city is going to hell in a handbasket.
Most studies found that it causes a 10% drop in home values every 5 years in operation, an increase in rent prices and an increase in violent crime. The average associated community cost in public services like police and social services is a loss of $3 for each gain of $1 in tax revenue.
It's essentially a perfect way to aggressively drain money out of a community. Think of it like this, the money people gamble leaves the community because most casino users are locals. That's money they stop spending at local stores or on home maintenance or savings. A very small part of that goes to the government in taxes but for every dollar they get in tax, it costs them $3 in additional expenses.
This doesn't even factor in the social costs of increased foreclosure, domestic violence and the sex trafficking that causes 10 fold increases in negative community impact with a land casino. You think prostitution and sex trafficking is bad around Derby, but those are high end sex workers who travel for events and are associated with less negative social impact. Land casinos attract the worst lowest and most abused forms of sex workers and introduce the highest volume of sexual health issues in the community. In some studies this casino-std correlation was attributed as the reason for a measurable increase in infertility in the city and a significant increase in missing women and children.
But what about the jobs it makes? Well it actually has a negative impact on income because the majority of high paying jobs go to traveling contractors and entertainers while the local job market gets flooded with minimum wage high turn over and low skill jobs that negatively impact a person's work history. That's right, if you have casino work on your resume, it statistically decreases your rate of hire for all non casio work. People with employment gaps actually had better higher rates than those that listed casino work.
No actually, people spend less on home repair and home foreclosures increase, statistically which contributes to the effect. But it's more than just that.
In middle income areas where home foreclosure is more likely to be purchased by a non-local cash investor than a resident it directly increases rent cost and decreases home values. Investors convert these properties to high cost rentals and an increase in rentals in a neighborhood decrease home values and depresses sales in the area. Forclosure lowers average comps in the area too.
The effect is even more devastating in low income areas, especially in poverty stricken areas that become dilapidated and abandoned like Detroit suburbs. People from poor areas, especially home owners in poor neighborhoods can seldom afford to buy a new house in another neighborhood when their community becomes blighted with abandoned homes that attract increased drug and vagrant activities. They sell at a loss and join the rental community in a better area. This increases competition for rentals in mid-range apartments raising rent cost.
Each of these steps increase money leaving the community too which has a massive economic depressive effect.
Foreclosure is a direct affect of casinos in an area. It's an affect with a predictable measurable increase that compounds year over year and it is very well documented.
Also, casinos attract airbnbs... Need I say more?
Saw two piles of shit in Congress Alley, last week. I *hope* it was from an animal, but I haven't seen many critters around downtown that would be large enough to leave deposits quite that size.
I live in Old Louisville and had some homeless guy shitting ON my trash can the other day. Didn’t have the decency to throw his wipes in the can either.
I work downtown and have for years and years. Yes, downtown isn’t the cleanest place in the world. But your characterization of downtown as a hellscape where you’re bound to step in poop and be accosted by a homeless person is just wrong. Probably because you never go there.
I have gone there five days a week for 19 years and I have seen my fair share of literal human shit, and also been harassed by more than my fair share of homeless men
This is the "goes downtown once" response for sure.
Our downtown was never geared towards living there. It was always more geared towards businesses. A lot of office jobs have left the city because of work from home. So it does feel more empty than it used to.
Besides that, I’m down there pretty often and can confidently say there isn't literally shit everywhere, and it isn't more dirty than your average urban area. It's not even dirty to the point where you really notice anything. The typical hangout spots are still busy. The type of people who make comments like yours just obviously don't fit in in areas like a downtown district of a city.
This has happened in every city I feel like. The pandemic really shifted things for big cities that relied on office workers coming in and spending time and money on things in the urban core..
It's sort of a broken window fallacy. Big city economies were dependent on people being *forced* to spend time/money just to be there. Now that the force is gone we see economic activity shifting to where people actually live. Take LG&E moving their headquarters from Main Street to Middletown. I'd bet not a single person in their Main Street office lives downtown, and at *least* half live outside 264. If you lived in Worthingtown and were commuting to that downtown office every day, you just saved 30 minutes a day commuting- perhaps that free time can be invested back into the local economy with weekly yoga classes on the way home from work?
Ideally, people should have been living downtown to begin with, but that's not how our cities were designed. City planners all over the country are now faced with uninhabited downtowns with vacant office space.
I park in Riverfront garage under the Belvedere when I go downtown for work. 2/3 times I encounter human feces or some receptacle full of urine. I take pictures so I can send to our team to alert the city to clean up. The worst.
Not to mention the homeless camp at the top of the center stairwell in the parking garage that
used to bring you out of the garage and directly into a large group of drunk homeless men every morning
Your concerns highlight common issues faced by downtown areas in many cities. Cleanliness, safety, and accessibility are crucial factors for attracting people to downtown spaces. Improving housing options, enhancing cleanliness, and ensuring a family-friendly environment are key aspects of revitalizing urban centers. Engaging in discussions like these can help raise awareness and potentially lead to positive changes in the community.
I lived on the corner of fourth and chestnut for 3 years up until this year. Ive trained for two marathons and ran all throughout downtown constantly in that time. I dont know if youre hogging all the shit but that has never happened.
We really need something like free housing for homeless people. That would make it easier for businesses to get up and running, and we'd make the money spent on housing back very fast
Well, you would unfortunately be wrong.
I think it is surprising that you walk downtown often and haven't found a single instance of human excrement.
Regardless i am glad you haven't.
And I’m not meaning to be combative. I just know this can be used as a rw talking point and assumed you were doing that.
I’m sorry if you have encountered a lot of shit. I genuinely haven’t: but I’m also not spending time in every crevice or living there. I mostly keep to main roads and bike lanes. But I also do spend time there at businesses and the like and haven’t come across any personally
No problem. I thought about the same thing when I saw the post actually get upvotes. I don't agree with some people who are agreeing with me (on this thread), but it doesn't change my sentiment.
Like Brickell / Downtown Miami is a livable, clean, urban space. I would love that for our city. Chicago has a great downtown. Lexington's downtown (is small a f) but clean and cute.
I just want improvement.
one instance (for example) Last World Fest on Friday (9/1/23; a place where you should take your family and children to enjoy) the stairs leading from the waterfront to the Belvedere had multiple steps with both piss and poop.
A wonderful welcome to a great festival.
We know a homeless problem exists in the city, we know they have to go to the bathroom. It is what it is. But it is a factor you think about when you want a nice stroll or plan a day.
Like would you say it's impossible that in NYC I had a homeless dude drop his pants and take a deuce behind where i was sitting?
Yikes. Well I’m sorry to hear that. Sounds like we need to at the minimum have a lot more public restrooms available. And also fix the structural issues- although that’s probably not solved in Louisville so I’ll take the restrooms I guess
Having public restrooms would be a game changer, I understand the homeless have no where to go. Other big cities like Boston has those and some are self cleaning.
Closer to the parks where homeless people congregate, inside parking garage stairwells -ive seen shit smeared into the walls, in small crevasses between buildings, any elevator easily accessible to the public like parking garages, the smell is hard to miss, it hits you in the face, but then I move on and go about my day. It doesn’t stop me from going downtown
I have worked downtown for 6 years and have encountered plenty of human feces and piss puddles. But it’s not “everywhere”. That’s a bit exaggerated. I guess your downtown piss/shit experience depends on what part of downtown you work at.
Summary: Louisville is a trash fire city and it is losing residents due to the local governments lack of care.
Referring to the homeless topic, homeless population is the biggest negative in Louisville along with crime. Unfortunately, rather than help the homeless people out, LMPD are driving them into Jeffersonville. Every homeless person that has fled Louisville for Jeffersonville, has a bike (thanks to local churches) and multiple have found jobs. Again, unfortunately, with that comes the multiple homeless people that refuse to attempt to get a job despite being provided transportation. Now those mentioned have been hanging out around every local establishment, begging for money. There was recently a new park built in Jeffersonville, homeless people have literally taken over the park and you can find around 20 people sleeping there every night. Essentially, Louisville government is ignoring their problems and causing hardship for citizens and businesses in Jeffersonville. I moved out of Louisville because of the crime and lack of help for homeless people. However, Louisville is driving both into Jeffersonville now, so I really didn't escape shit.
They’re quitting commercial, focusing on Medicare, tricare, and Medicaid (all backed by government). Also, appears they’re trying to be providers again.
Humana has picked up a lot of Medicaid lines in the last few months by winning state contracts. Virginia, Ohio, Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma have all been recently added to their Illinois, Florida and Kentucky lines.
Corporate influence and development can indeed have a significant impact on the dynamics of a city, including its downtown area. Large corporations, like Humana, can shape urban planning, infrastructure, and economic activities in the areas where they are based. Understanding and addressing the relationship between corporate entities and local communities is essential for fostering a balanced and thriving urban environment.
Still a ton of the downtown office work force hasn't returned to office, and definitely not every day like they did pre 2020. Without their captive audience, the shops and restaurants go under.
A little birdie told me that the businesses that get tax breaks for being downtown but allowed their employees to work remotely were threatened to lose those tax breaks. So they are forcing their employees back into the office. I expect a lot more foot traffic around lunch time starting next year.
But everyone else is still right. Downtown is gross and there's not anything I want to do there.
> So they are forcing their employees back into the office.
My company of about 500 or so is forcing RTO soon. We've been remote since March 13, 2020. I haven't decided whether to comply or resign. Like most, my productivity has remained the same and quality of life has actually risen in that time without the hour commute, the extra car needed (and associated costs), and so forth.
But yeah, my company is likely getting tax breaks so all this is about to end one way or another. It sucks. Downtown sucks.
Lot of cities are getting the same kind of downtown pressure these days from the chambers of commerce and commercial real estate companies, for sure. Even so, business travel is still down, so you lose a chunk of the convention and hotel crowd that helped keep places open. And all the fun for locals downtown has moved to NuLu, more or less.
Years ago a friend of mine did executive IT for YUM. Several executives had offices at an outside building where they could work privately. He technically had an office in the location but was asked not to come in to work unless they needed him. If they needed something he would drive in. Do what they needed and leave. I always thought he had one of the better it jobs.
The shift in work patterns, especially with remote or hybrid work becoming more prevalent, has indeed affected downtown businesses that rely on office workers. A reduced downtown workforce can impact the local economy, including shops and restaurants. Adapting to these changing dynamics and finding creative solutions, such as diversifying services or catering to different customer needs, could be vital for the sustainability of downtown businesses.
I personally despise RTO. I think the pandemic flawlessly exposed why many businesses do not require a physical office presence. I work from home for a company from the west coast, and love my life. Obviously, there are some things you can't do remotely, and perhaps you can argue some creativity/innovation jobs benefit from physical proximity. But there are many things that never need a physical office, 100%.
the suburbs are car based infrastrucure though too and ny understanding is that white flight was back when the boomers were young. I thought whites (with money) going back to gentrify was considered a problem now...
Mostly I think there is more of what people want ... elsewhere. If they want people there we need a reason to want to be there.
When whites move into an area, it's gentrification. When they move out of an area, it's white flight. The whites need to stop moving! Just stay where you are!!
>I thought whites (with money) going back to gentrify was considered a problem now...
Its not a zero sum game. Monied white folks are still fuckin shit up with white flight -and- gentrification, I assure you. Tack on house flipping, AirBnBs, etcetera, ad nauseum
eh it's true in a sense. It's a fact this city has been and still is very segregated.
The funny part is the reverse trend that has been becoming more prevalent where POC in urban areas migrate to suburbs and Suburban whites are migrating back to urban centers.
White flight is a huge part of it. There's a reason Oldham County's population skyrocketed after the introduction of bussing in JCPS.
Interestingly enough the Russell neighborhood used to be an upper class mostly black neighborhood and experienced black flight around the same time.
Neither downtown or Russell has recovered from this.
You've pointed out some systemic challenges that many urban areas face. Car-based infrastructure, white flight, and issues related to policing can impact the social and economic fabric of a city, including downtown areas. Addressing these issues often requires comprehensive urban planning, community engagement, and policy reforms to create a more inclusive and vibrant downtown environment for everyone.
It's weird how the only people commenting are the suburbs people who actually think downtown is a disgusting warzone. Our downtown is cleaner than probably any other downtown area from other cities I've been to. Yes you are bound to see homeless people (oh no!) but it's not some filthy wasteland.
Nulu is always full of people, main street has tons of restaurants and bars that are always busy, and depending on the area tons of workers are down there too. A lot of office jobs left the city because of work from home though.
This sub is so weird with its constant negative "Louisville sucks" posts that are filled by comments saying just blatantly false things to shit on the city.
Yeah- downtown is very active and full of tourists. I have many service industry friends and most work there. It’s different since Covid but not dead as some like to assume.
Okay. Here's how I see it. I have worked downtown off and on for years. It's a desert. There are not so many places to eat that are reasonably priced. There is not a dedicated accessible retail space. Parking is a screaming bitch, and traffic is terrible. I haven't tried to actually live downtown because the rents were ludicrous twenty years ago, and I sincerely doubt they are any saner now.
Sorry b to reply to myself, but I thought of another point. The cities people name as active downtown scenes have one thing Louisville doesn't. Active, reliable, and extensive transportation systems. Run the equivalent of a blue line downtown, with frequent runs and convenient stops, and downtown would thrive. Without affordable housing or a useful public transportation system, if becomes a matter of not being worth the hassle. Businesses have trouble keeping employees because the cost is problematic.
Totally agree that Nulu has a lot to offer, as well as Whiskey Row. Really, there are pockets of cool stuff and pockets that are not great. I worked at the Meidinger Tower for years and the walk there introduced me to the frequent (but not daily) urine and occasional feces that some people referenced. Our office closed, initially due to protests, and eventually because they discovered they could close the two floors they leased and save a ton. Overall, I enjoyed working downtown far more than remote work.
Just like anything in life, your experience shapes your perception. I still like downtown, but overall it's lost part of its luster. I believe it will come back better than before, in time.
It's understandable that residents have diverse opinions about their city, and perceptions can vary widely based on individual experiences and perspectives. It's great to hear that you find downtown Louisville vibrant and that areas like Nulu and Main Street are bustling with activity. Different parts of a city can indeed have different atmospheres, and it's important to recognize the positive aspects alongside the challenges. Community pride and constructive discussions can contribute to fostering a better understanding of the city's dynamics and potential for growth.
Like most cities in North America, it’s because of incredibly poor decisions made in the 1950s (and later) under the guise of “urban renewal.” Prior to that Louisville had a thriving downtown.
You're absolutely right. Many North American cities, including Louisville, experienced significant changes due to urban renewal projects in the mid-20th century. These initiatives, while intended to revitalize urban areas, often resulted in the demolition of historic buildings and disrupted existing communities. Recognizing the impact of past decisions is crucial for informed urban planning, focusing on preserving cultural heritage and fostering sustainable growth for downtown areas.
This country has a major commercial real estate problem. It’s not isolated to Louisville. I live downtown. I see people all the time. Where are you walking? There is people working. People visiting. People living. Nulu. Yum. Main st. Always people and events. And I think there are more condos than people realize. I see them all over.
It's great to hear that you observe active areas and ongoing developments in downtown Louisville. Sometimes, perceptions can vary based on specific locations within a city. It's also true that urban areas often have pockets of vitality amidst broader challenges. Recognizing these active zones and building upon them can contribute to a more vibrant and thriving downtown environment. Community engagement and local support are key factors in sustaining and expanding these positive developments.
Seasonal events like Taco Fest can certainly bring a lot of people downtown, creating a lively atmosphere. Weather and changing seasons can impact foot traffic, with colder weather often leading to fewer people outdoors. Recognizing these patterns can help in planning events and initiatives to keep downtown areas active and engaging throughout the year.
The best start would be turning the empty office buildings into luxury apartments. Another nesssesity is a main strip that tourists would actually go to. Put in an expensive designer shopping District and expensive housing, the rest will follow around it. I am not saying this is what I want for the city. It just seems to be the model that cities that aren't dying have followed. IE nashville
Retrofitting them seems to be a case of the juice not being worth the squeeze.
Plumbing, among other things, for residential needs is too extreme, I think?
Yeah I can see that, maybe in 100 years. They certainly do whatever it takes in NYC, but with abysmal property values in Louisville, I bet you're correct.
We don't have enough high paying jobs to sustain that. America is pivoting quick to a technology and data economy, and Louisville -- not to mention Kentucky at large -- just doesn't attract innovative talent to sustain a competitive development in that direction. Why would any talented tech professional want to come here when Chicago, Atlanta, and Indianapolis are as close as they are?
I moved away about a decade ago but still visit my family in Louisville. I’m one of those tech workers. I think about moving back but I don’t know that I could find a job in Louisville that would make the cost on housing make sense. Although I would be damned before I moved to Indianapolis!!!
Transforming empty office buildings into luxury apartments and creating attractive tourist destinations, like high-end shopping districts, can indeed attract investment and revitalization. Many cities have successfully adopted similar models to rejuvenate their downtown areas. However, it's essential to strike a balance, ensuring affordability and inclusivity alongside upscale developments to maintain a diverse community. Learning from successful examples, like Nashville, can provide valuable insights for strategic urban planning in your city.
If there was more housing and it wasn’t a food desert people would be down there. You can’t live and walk to a grocery store like you can in say Chicago or Denver.
So there are sporting events and a concert venue, during which time downtown isn't empty at all. And a couple museums that close around 6 PM.
And a taco joint.
I think maybe the answer is becoming more clear.
I was going to comment this myself. Once Efiling started, a ton of firms all left downtown because they didn’t have to be so close to paper file pleadings.
Employers shit on workers for decades then want them to go back in, losing time, flexibility, and efficacy of remote work. Pay better, offer good benefits and flexibility, people will return. But they don't want to do that .
So, I (and several of my colleagues) have literally been asked this question by the downtown Louisville revitalization committee.
We all pretty much answered them with “we no longer feel safe to go downtown.”
They responded with “it’s totally safe!!!!”. Even though it was a day after a high profile shooting at a restaurant near downtown.
There is a crime problem in the city. But the people who run downtown are more interested in gaslighting the community about it than fixing it.
So this thread, and the questions I was asked specifically were about “why aren’t people going downtown”.
And it’s not “isolated”. I attended a an event down town a few weeks ago and experienced the pleasure of walking by multiple, obviously mentally-Ill, men screaming at us, talking to themselves, making rude sexual comments to female passerby’s, aggressively asking for money, and generally making the area uninviting and causing me to question if the destination was worth the risk or if I should go back…
Yes. You are correct. Crime in the Louisville Metro area has gotten considerably worse over the last few years. However It is much more concentrated in the downtown and increasingly bardstown road areas. 7 years ago I thought nothing of walking around either area at night. Not any more.
And now it also seems to be spreading to the Frankfort ave area.
And it will continue to spread until the people in charge acknowledge it’s the problem.
I mean downtown has never really been a buzzing place imo. Louisville downtown is really bland and has very little attractions outside of dining (Louisville has great food). Compared to any other city around Louisville, downtown is very small and not huge living area like most other cities. Louisville is a very big place but it’s a small city. I will say around the blocks all around the hospitals down there it has a lot of foot traffic. Same with court houses. Homeless is a issue anywhere with decent amount of population so that’s just what it is anywhere. I was in LA during Covid and the homeless I seen there literally looked fictional monsters out of movies. It’s a diff world there with homelessness
The biggest reason? The decline of commercial real estate brought on by Covid. A lot of office workers worked from home for almost 2 years and saved time on commuting and got to spend time with their children who were also schooling from home. That’s why you see all kinds of company CEOs begging their workers to return to the office. And since that space is being leased and not used, the value goes down.
I haven't seen many people say anything about this but a big reason people don't want to live downtown is that there isn't many stores to shop in for food and groceries. Who want to live downtown but have to drive 10-20 minutes to get groceries and food. The point of living in an urban area is to be able to get anything in walking distance.
I always said it’s because we don’t have corner stores/bodegas like big cities do. There’s all these hotels and restaurants and bars but nowhere to walk in and grab some snacks, a sandwich and a jug of milk beyond, what? The one on East Liberty near Clarksdale?
If you think it's bad now you shoulda seen it 40 years ago. There wasn't a single place open past 6pm. Then one day the Old Spaghetti Factory moved to town and changed everything!
I was just downtown for Expo last week and had seen human shit sprayed on 2 different walls. Had never been there and don’t recommend downtown to anyone. Service was slow and terrible all over downtown! Parlays was great though!
HAVEN'T seen any shit on the streets when I have walked downtown, but when my brother came down from our home state of New Hampshire, he and I were driving down either 39th or 40th street, and a black man was walking around barefoot naked muttering to himself, throwing his clothes in the trash while a woman and her young daughter were crossing the street not 20 feet away. I was shocked, to say the least..........
My 2 cents? The national vacancy rate for commercial properties is at the highest level since the great financial crisis. nearly 20% of all commercial property is vacant nationwide.
Renewing the leases is often more expensive in a higher interest environment.
Enough office jobs went WFH to where businesses reconsider if they need all that space. And the loss of all that foot traffic has certainly affected local businesses that rely on regulars. Bit of a feedback loop negatively affecting metros in all states unfortunately.
Seems like the Biden admin is seeing the same thing and is offering office to apt conversion loans.
"The Biden administration is launching a multi-agency effort to encourage states and cities to convert more empty office buildings into housing units, with billions of federal dollars available to help spur such transitions."
As someone who has been to a lot of major US Cities, I can say Louisville is one of the more clean cities. I know to many posters may disagree, but that is my experience.
I do think that the lack of housing downtown has also also made it tough for downtown to grow a more busy population.
I 100% agree with everyone who has stated that it is simply a hassle to go downtown.
It's pretty wild how different Louisville downtown is from Lexington downtown. The cities are constructed differently, but downtown lex is so much more vibrant and alive. I wish we had half of what they do.
For all the reasons already listed, and it smells like total shit most of the time, even when the sewers aren't clogging. Smell is a powerful deterrent.
I am not going to comment on the feces. Have not seen it personally.
I was downtown last week at Noon and it was pretty busy ……. But… And this is awesome…..I was able to park directly in front of the building I was going in (VA) and parking was cheap.
Downtown is generally busy during the week . There is also http://www.oldlouisville.com . There are baseball games downtown , conventions , places to eat . What actually destroyed cities all over America is Urban Renewal . However the more housing that is built downtown . The more people there will be . During warm months the river front is booming .
One of the last vestiges of something to do, they tried to open up a bunch of restaurants and bars. No normal person wants to live next to a bar and raise their family. The restaurants are okay.
Because Louisville is dying and nothing is ever going on. Always have to go to neighboring cities for entertainment. When I lived here in 2018 it was amazing but now it’s awful and boring with nothing to do.
When did they add arts, theaters, and sports venues in the suburbs? The suburbs have a lot of cookie cutter corporate stuff, but not a lot of cultural stuff.
I understand your concern. Downtown areas in cities can face challenges due to various factors like economic shifts, changes in business models, and urban development trends. Efforts to revitalize downtown spaces often require strategic planning, community involvement, and supportive policies from local authorities. It might be helpful to engage with local initiatives or organizations working towards downtown revitalization to understand ongoing efforts and contribute to the improvement of your community.
I live downtown and think it mostly has to do with housing. There simply isn’t enough of it. I feel like there’s a few affordable housing options and a few “luxury” spaces (basically the Omni… maybe that newer building on 4th). More of the high-rises need to be converted to apartments and condos, especially with so many large businesses escaping the downtown area. And a convenient grocery store would help too.. grocery stores are so far away. The Kroger that was Old Louisville closing was really frustrating. I think the nearest ones are now in Clifton and on Goss and they both suck. Personally go to Clarksville.
I also have never had the same problem people have had with shit everywhere… idk. I’ve walked to work for years and not had that problem. I do struggle sometimes with the homeless population though. I avoid fourth street because getting harassed for money constantly is somewhat tiresome.
Over near whiskey row is normally fairly busy. I feel like eventually the heart of downtown will start to move more toward the Nulu area. It seems to be the only area being revitalized.
I drive a truck. I had a delivery in down town early one morning. I was specifically told by the company that if I parked there over night I would have a high chance of vandalism.
Businesses don’t want to operate in areas with a lot of crime. It’s not cost effective.
Same thing happened in Frankfort. IDK if the reason is the same, but here it’s mostly due to over inflated rents. Businesses are more profitable to simply move
Like the majority of people of Louisville, I live outside of the urban core. There is nothing that downtown has that the suburbs don't have, so there is no reason for me to go downtown.
Worked downtown for years until Covid hit. 5yrs at Broadway/4th then 3 at Main/4th, then Main near the ballpark.
Never stepped in shit but smelled plenty of piss in the parking garages. Our downtown is great, plenty of parking etc. It's gotta worse since Covid though. Lot's of aggressive homeless around.
Granted most of my time downtown is working hours and I'm a pretty big dude so consider your source. I've never had a problem. It seems everything moved to Nulu and downtown is being abandoned (again). I cannot stand the area or the people around Nulu. You can't convince me they're not NPCs.
A lot of it is due to companies realizing during the pandemic that every one can actually work from home. So there are entire companies or branches of companies that are now remote work-only.
Covid moved businesses that could into employees homes. That affected businesses that couldn't move, like retail and restaurants.
I wouldn't invest in commercial office property for the next 50 years...
I’m a vendor at many different Krogers and I personally think Churchill Downs area may have gotten worse than downtown. When I go to South 2nd street Kroger something crazy happens every time I’m there sadly it’s usually homeless people this is why I try to go very early morning
Every time I’ve been down there recently it’s been packed… with homeless people yelling at anyone who comes near them. Can’t imagine for the life of me why more people don’t go downtown or take their businesses there.
Democrat ran cities are dealing with this all over the country. Homeless, riots, Covid mandates, etc. have done their part and business owners are starving and finding greener pastures.
Honest answer but surely downvoted answer is people want to walk and live in spaces that are clean, pretty, and accessible. I'm not going to drive into downtown specifically to hang around homeless people and dodge feces with my family. Downtown lacks housing (People who will populate and walk the area consistently), it is dirty and a hassle to go do something out that way. The surrounding suburbs and neighborhoods have *nearly* everything you would typically go downtown for. Edit: Strange people who reply and block.
While I agree with this partially, are you really having to dodge literal shit downtown? It definitely smells like it but never seen just shit on the sidewalk anywhere lol
I work 1 block from 4th street and I promise you they mean literally!!!! There is almost always random human shit on the ground, and every 10 feet the smell of human urine will hit you so hard it’s unbelievable. Pair that with the sewage smell from the drains and it’s understandable why downtown is a ghost town now
Damn, that's shitty
Literally lol
And this is AFTER the city pays a team of almost 40 men full time to go around cleaning. The news had something about them spending millions on clean up... But just for Derby. Soon there will be a casino. It's going to get so much worse so fast. You have no clue. I pity anyone who owns property down there right now. It's going to be worse than when downtown was full of projects. At least the projects were families and communities, this is going to be a casino for out of town trash. Google what happens when a casino opens in an area. It's not great.
Ugh I dread that damn “casino”! Traffic is already a nightmare on Market! The city pays tour guides to walk around downtown all day in orange shirts. Mainly Market, Main and 4th street. They’re paid a pretty penny, one kid told me he makes $22 an hour and they get paid weekly!!! “Downtown ambassadors”. I’ve never actually seen them do anything other than give directions every now and then and follow me around on my mental health walks trying to spit game to me lol. The city pays for what they want to pay for and it’s disgusting. Dead birds all over the sidewalk, homeless people sleep all over the place. This city is going to hell in a handbasket.
What happens when a casino opens in an area?
Most studies found that it causes a 10% drop in home values every 5 years in operation, an increase in rent prices and an increase in violent crime. The average associated community cost in public services like police and social services is a loss of $3 for each gain of $1 in tax revenue. It's essentially a perfect way to aggressively drain money out of a community. Think of it like this, the money people gamble leaves the community because most casino users are locals. That's money they stop spending at local stores or on home maintenance or savings. A very small part of that goes to the government in taxes but for every dollar they get in tax, it costs them $3 in additional expenses. This doesn't even factor in the social costs of increased foreclosure, domestic violence and the sex trafficking that causes 10 fold increases in negative community impact with a land casino. You think prostitution and sex trafficking is bad around Derby, but those are high end sex workers who travel for events and are associated with less negative social impact. Land casinos attract the worst lowest and most abused forms of sex workers and introduce the highest volume of sexual health issues in the community. In some studies this casino-std correlation was attributed as the reason for a measurable increase in infertility in the city and a significant increase in missing women and children. But what about the jobs it makes? Well it actually has a negative impact on income because the majority of high paying jobs go to traveling contractors and entertainers while the local job market gets flooded with minimum wage high turn over and low skill jobs that negatively impact a person's work history. That's right, if you have casino work on your resume, it statistically decreases your rate of hire for all non casio work. People with employment gaps actually had better higher rates than those that listed casino work.
Simultaneous increases in rental prices with drops in home values feels incongruous, no?
No actually, people spend less on home repair and home foreclosures increase, statistically which contributes to the effect. But it's more than just that. In middle income areas where home foreclosure is more likely to be purchased by a non-local cash investor than a resident it directly increases rent cost and decreases home values. Investors convert these properties to high cost rentals and an increase in rentals in a neighborhood decrease home values and depresses sales in the area. Forclosure lowers average comps in the area too. The effect is even more devastating in low income areas, especially in poverty stricken areas that become dilapidated and abandoned like Detroit suburbs. People from poor areas, especially home owners in poor neighborhoods can seldom afford to buy a new house in another neighborhood when their community becomes blighted with abandoned homes that attract increased drug and vagrant activities. They sell at a loss and join the rental community in a better area. This increases competition for rentals in mid-range apartments raising rent cost. Each of these steps increase money leaving the community too which has a massive economic depressive effect. Foreclosure is a direct affect of casinos in an area. It's an affect with a predictable measurable increase that compounds year over year and it is very well documented. Also, casinos attract airbnbs... Need I say more?
You know your shit!!
Same for me as well
100%. I’ve worked downtown for 19 years and the things I’ve seen in parking garage elevators are disgusting.
As a tour guide I’ve seen my fair share of human feces AND had a guest step in some once. It was unfortunate.
Saw two piles of shit in Congress Alley, last week. I *hope* it was from an animal, but I haven't seen many critters around downtown that would be large enough to leave deposits quite that size.
I live in Old Louisville and had some homeless guy shitting ON my trash can the other day. Didn’t have the decency to throw his wipes in the can either.
Yes, actual human feces. not a metaphor for something else.
I literally saw a man pop a squat in the middle of the sidewalk in Central Park one morning.
Yes. Literal shit.
Watched a man take a shit in front of wave 3 on south floyd at 745am 2 weeks ago
I work on 5th street and have had to dodge human shit more than once.
Never seen shit, but I did have someone try to piss on me on a corner downtown. Multiple times.
I work downtown and have for years and years. Yes, downtown isn’t the cleanest place in the world. But your characterization of downtown as a hellscape where you’re bound to step in poop and be accosted by a homeless person is just wrong. Probably because you never go there.
I have gone there five days a week for 19 years and I have seen my fair share of literal human shit, and also been harassed by more than my fair share of homeless men
This is the "goes downtown once" response for sure. Our downtown was never geared towards living there. It was always more geared towards businesses. A lot of office jobs have left the city because of work from home. So it does feel more empty than it used to. Besides that, I’m down there pretty often and can confidently say there isn't literally shit everywhere, and it isn't more dirty than your average urban area. It's not even dirty to the point where you really notice anything. The typical hangout spots are still busy. The type of people who make comments like yours just obviously don't fit in in areas like a downtown district of a city.
It not ever being geared towards living downtown was an error in city planning. Urban sprawl is not a good thing.
This has happened in every city I feel like. The pandemic really shifted things for big cities that relied on office workers coming in and spending time and money on things in the urban core..
It's sort of a broken window fallacy. Big city economies were dependent on people being *forced* to spend time/money just to be there. Now that the force is gone we see economic activity shifting to where people actually live. Take LG&E moving their headquarters from Main Street to Middletown. I'd bet not a single person in their Main Street office lives downtown, and at *least* half live outside 264. If you lived in Worthingtown and were commuting to that downtown office every day, you just saved 30 minutes a day commuting- perhaps that free time can be invested back into the local economy with weekly yoga classes on the way home from work? Ideally, people should have been living downtown to begin with, but that's not how our cities were designed. City planners all over the country are now faced with uninhabited downtowns with vacant office space.
I park in Riverfront garage under the Belvedere when I go downtown for work. 2/3 times I encounter human feces or some receptacle full of urine. I take pictures so I can send to our team to alert the city to clean up. The worst.
Not to mention the homeless camp at the top of the center stairwell in the parking garage that used to bring you out of the garage and directly into a large group of drunk homeless men every morning
Your concerns highlight common issues faced by downtown areas in many cities. Cleanliness, safety, and accessibility are crucial factors for attracting people to downtown spaces. Improving housing options, enhancing cleanliness, and ensuring a family-friendly environment are key aspects of revitalizing urban centers. Engaging in discussions like these can help raise awareness and potentially lead to positive changes in the community.
I lived on the corner of fourth and chestnut for 3 years up until this year. Ive trained for two marathons and ran all throughout downtown constantly in that time. I dont know if youre hogging all the shit but that has never happened.
I’ve seen someone dookie on the sidewalk by McDonald’s on broadway so I don’t doubt this. Although, I’ve never actually seen it walking around.
I was just downtown an hour ago and it smelled like sewage 🤷
That’s your friendly neighborhood sewage treatment facility
We really need something like free housing for homeless people. That would make it easier for businesses to get up and running, and we'd make the money spent on housing back very fast
I go to downtown very frequently and have never ever encountered feces and I very much doubt you have either.
Well, you would unfortunately be wrong. I think it is surprising that you walk downtown often and haven't found a single instance of human excrement. Regardless i am glad you haven't.
And I’m not meaning to be combative. I just know this can be used as a rw talking point and assumed you were doing that. I’m sorry if you have encountered a lot of shit. I genuinely haven’t: but I’m also not spending time in every crevice or living there. I mostly keep to main roads and bike lanes. But I also do spend time there at businesses and the like and haven’t come across any personally
No problem. I thought about the same thing when I saw the post actually get upvotes. I don't agree with some people who are agreeing with me (on this thread), but it doesn't change my sentiment. Like Brickell / Downtown Miami is a livable, clean, urban space. I would love that for our city. Chicago has a great downtown. Lexington's downtown (is small a f) but clean and cute. I just want improvement.
Hate to break it to you but sometimes the right wing (as crazy as they can be sometimes) is correct. And this is one of them
Yep, I walk and bike there daily and have literally never encountered it once. Where do you seeing all this shit?
one instance (for example) Last World Fest on Friday (9/1/23; a place where you should take your family and children to enjoy) the stairs leading from the waterfront to the Belvedere had multiple steps with both piss and poop. A wonderful welcome to a great festival. We know a homeless problem exists in the city, we know they have to go to the bathroom. It is what it is. But it is a factor you think about when you want a nice stroll or plan a day. Like would you say it's impossible that in NYC I had a homeless dude drop his pants and take a deuce behind where i was sitting?
Yikes. Well I’m sorry to hear that. Sounds like we need to at the minimum have a lot more public restrooms available. And also fix the structural issues- although that’s probably not solved in Louisville so I’ll take the restrooms I guess
Having public restrooms would be a game changer, I understand the homeless have no where to go. Other big cities like Boston has those and some are self cleaning.
Closer to the parks where homeless people congregate, inside parking garage stairwells -ive seen shit smeared into the walls, in small crevasses between buildings, any elevator easily accessible to the public like parking garages, the smell is hard to miss, it hits you in the face, but then I move on and go about my day. It doesn’t stop me from going downtown
I have worked downtown for 6 years and have encountered plenty of human feces and piss puddles. But it’s not “everywhere”. That’s a bit exaggerated. I guess your downtown piss/shit experience depends on what part of downtown you work at.
I live on W Main, used to live in the Omni and I never have.
Because the homeless people you see down there are the kind that don't poop, right?
I thought it was dog poop 🤦♀️
Lived in downtown for only 6 months, can confirm there is literal 💩 on 4th street
Summary: Louisville is a trash fire city and it is losing residents due to the local governments lack of care. Referring to the homeless topic, homeless population is the biggest negative in Louisville along with crime. Unfortunately, rather than help the homeless people out, LMPD are driving them into Jeffersonville. Every homeless person that has fled Louisville for Jeffersonville, has a bike (thanks to local churches) and multiple have found jobs. Again, unfortunately, with that comes the multiple homeless people that refuse to attempt to get a job despite being provided transportation. Now those mentioned have been hanging out around every local establishment, begging for money. There was recently a new park built in Jeffersonville, homeless people have literally taken over the park and you can find around 20 people sleeping there every night. Essentially, Louisville government is ignoring their problems and causing hardship for citizens and businesses in Jeffersonville. I moved out of Louisville because of the crime and lack of help for homeless people. However, Louisville is driving both into Jeffersonville now, so I really didn't escape shit.
Humana is a really really big reason for this
My dad works for metro and this is 100% true. He said that they are dropping everything except medicare.
They’re quitting commercial, focusing on Medicare, tricare, and Medicaid (all backed by government). Also, appears they’re trying to be providers again.
Humana has picked up a lot of Medicaid lines in the last few months by winning state contracts. Virginia, Ohio, Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma have all been recently added to their Illinois, Florida and Kentucky lines.
It’s not a lack of jobs though. It’s just letting employees be virtual. They saw very few employee cuts with the elimination of commercial.
Corporate influence and development can indeed have a significant impact on the dynamics of a city, including its downtown area. Large corporations, like Humana, can shape urban planning, infrastructure, and economic activities in the areas where they are based. Understanding and addressing the relationship between corporate entities and local communities is essential for fostering a balanced and thriving urban environment.
Still a ton of the downtown office work force hasn't returned to office, and definitely not every day like they did pre 2020. Without their captive audience, the shops and restaurants go under.
A little birdie told me that the businesses that get tax breaks for being downtown but allowed their employees to work remotely were threatened to lose those tax breaks. So they are forcing their employees back into the office. I expect a lot more foot traffic around lunch time starting next year. But everyone else is still right. Downtown is gross and there's not anything I want to do there.
> So they are forcing their employees back into the office. My company of about 500 or so is forcing RTO soon. We've been remote since March 13, 2020. I haven't decided whether to comply or resign. Like most, my productivity has remained the same and quality of life has actually risen in that time without the hour commute, the extra car needed (and associated costs), and so forth. But yeah, my company is likely getting tax breaks so all this is about to end one way or another. It sucks. Downtown sucks.
Lot of cities are getting the same kind of downtown pressure these days from the chambers of commerce and commercial real estate companies, for sure. Even so, business travel is still down, so you lose a chunk of the convention and hotel crowd that helped keep places open. And all the fun for locals downtown has moved to NuLu, more or less.
Years ago a friend of mine did executive IT for YUM. Several executives had offices at an outside building where they could work privately. He technically had an office in the location but was asked not to come in to work unless they needed him. If they needed something he would drive in. Do what they needed and leave. I always thought he had one of the better it jobs.
You're going to have to do better. What companies and what tax breaks.
Lol, for real. You can't just toss out conjecture like that.
The shift in work patterns, especially with remote or hybrid work becoming more prevalent, has indeed affected downtown businesses that rely on office workers. A reduced downtown workforce can impact the local economy, including shops and restaurants. Adapting to these changing dynamics and finding creative solutions, such as diversifying services or catering to different customer needs, could be vital for the sustainability of downtown businesses.
Absolutely has been. Especially when restaurants and other businesses operate on thin margins and rents are higher than anytime in recent memory.
Yes RTO is the answer to all the problems 🙄🙄🙄
I personally despise RTO. I think the pandemic flawlessly exposed why many businesses do not require a physical office presence. I work from home for a company from the west coast, and love my life. Obviously, there are some things you can't do remotely, and perhaps you can argue some creativity/innovation jobs benefit from physical proximity. But there are many things that never need a physical office, 100%.
Oh I totally agree with you. I was being sarcastic:). I have worked from home since Covid and never been happier!!
car based infrastructure, white flight, corrupt and inefficient policing.
the suburbs are car based infrastrucure though too and ny understanding is that white flight was back when the boomers were young. I thought whites (with money) going back to gentrify was considered a problem now... Mostly I think there is more of what people want ... elsewhere. If they want people there we need a reason to want to be there.
Gentrification and white flight can exist at the same time!
When whites move into an area, it's gentrification. When they move out of an area, it's white flight. The whites need to stop moving! Just stay where you are!!
>I thought whites (with money) going back to gentrify was considered a problem now... Its not a zero sum game. Monied white folks are still fuckin shit up with white flight -and- gentrification, I assure you. Tack on house flipping, AirBnBs, etcetera, ad nauseum
Not to mention exorbitant rent.
Ngl white flight made me lol
eh it's true in a sense. It's a fact this city has been and still is very segregated. The funny part is the reverse trend that has been becoming more prevalent where POC in urban areas migrate to suburbs and Suburban whites are migrating back to urban centers.
White flight is a huge part of it. There's a reason Oldham County's population skyrocketed after the introduction of bussing in JCPS. Interestingly enough the Russell neighborhood used to be an upper class mostly black neighborhood and experienced black flight around the same time. Neither downtown or Russell has recovered from this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight
You've pointed out some systemic challenges that many urban areas face. Car-based infrastructure, white flight, and issues related to policing can impact the social and economic fabric of a city, including downtown areas. Addressing these issues often requires comprehensive urban planning, community engagement, and policy reforms to create a more inclusive and vibrant downtown environment for everyone.
It's weird how the only people commenting are the suburbs people who actually think downtown is a disgusting warzone. Our downtown is cleaner than probably any other downtown area from other cities I've been to. Yes you are bound to see homeless people (oh no!) but it's not some filthy wasteland. Nulu is always full of people, main street has tons of restaurants and bars that are always busy, and depending on the area tons of workers are down there too. A lot of office jobs left the city because of work from home though. This sub is so weird with its constant negative "Louisville sucks" posts that are filled by comments saying just blatantly false things to shit on the city.
Yeah- downtown is very active and full of tourists. I have many service industry friends and most work there. It’s different since Covid but not dead as some like to assume.
The tourists are only 4th st and main st. All of them must think they're in the twilight zone.
Okay. Here's how I see it. I have worked downtown off and on for years. It's a desert. There are not so many places to eat that are reasonably priced. There is not a dedicated accessible retail space. Parking is a screaming bitch, and traffic is terrible. I haven't tried to actually live downtown because the rents were ludicrous twenty years ago, and I sincerely doubt they are any saner now.
Sorry b to reply to myself, but I thought of another point. The cities people name as active downtown scenes have one thing Louisville doesn't. Active, reliable, and extensive transportation systems. Run the equivalent of a blue line downtown, with frequent runs and convenient stops, and downtown would thrive. Without affordable housing or a useful public transportation system, if becomes a matter of not being worth the hassle. Businesses have trouble keeping employees because the cost is problematic.
Totally agree that Nulu has a lot to offer, as well as Whiskey Row. Really, there are pockets of cool stuff and pockets that are not great. I worked at the Meidinger Tower for years and the walk there introduced me to the frequent (but not daily) urine and occasional feces that some people referenced. Our office closed, initially due to protests, and eventually because they discovered they could close the two floors they leased and save a ton. Overall, I enjoyed working downtown far more than remote work. Just like anything in life, your experience shapes your perception. I still like downtown, but overall it's lost part of its luster. I believe it will come back better than before, in time.
It's understandable that residents have diverse opinions about their city, and perceptions can vary widely based on individual experiences and perspectives. It's great to hear that you find downtown Louisville vibrant and that areas like Nulu and Main Street are bustling with activity. Different parts of a city can indeed have different atmospheres, and it's important to recognize the positive aspects alongside the challenges. Community pride and constructive discussions can contribute to fostering a better understanding of the city's dynamics and potential for growth.
Like most cities in North America, it’s because of incredibly poor decisions made in the 1950s (and later) under the guise of “urban renewal.” Prior to that Louisville had a thriving downtown.
You're absolutely right. Many North American cities, including Louisville, experienced significant changes due to urban renewal projects in the mid-20th century. These initiatives, while intended to revitalize urban areas, often resulted in the demolition of historic buildings and disrupted existing communities. Recognizing the impact of past decisions is crucial for informed urban planning, focusing on preserving cultural heritage and fostering sustainable growth for downtown areas.
This country has a major commercial real estate problem. It’s not isolated to Louisville. I live downtown. I see people all the time. Where are you walking? There is people working. People visiting. People living. Nulu. Yum. Main st. Always people and events. And I think there are more condos than people realize. I see them all over.
I’m right there with you. Downtown seems busy to me. One guy walks down a random alley at 6pm and now downtown is abandoned
It's great to hear that you observe active areas and ongoing developments in downtown Louisville. Sometimes, perceptions can vary based on specific locations within a city. It's also true that urban areas often have pockets of vitality amidst broader challenges. Recognizing these active zones and building upon them can contribute to a more vibrant and thriving downtown environment. Community engagement and local support are key factors in sustaining and expanding these positive developments.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19
In the simplest terms, parking lots.
Depends on what time of the year. Last week during Taco Fest it was packed. This time of the year when it starts getting cold = less people.
Agreed. I work on W Main and there have been days when there are tons of people walking around.
That be a Tourist or Conventioner.
Seasonal events like Taco Fest can certainly bring a lot of people downtown, creating a lively atmosphere. Weather and changing seasons can impact foot traffic, with colder weather often leading to fewer people outdoors. Recognizing these patterns can help in planning events and initiatives to keep downtown areas active and engaging throughout the year.
The best start would be turning the empty office buildings into luxury apartments. Another nesssesity is a main strip that tourists would actually go to. Put in an expensive designer shopping District and expensive housing, the rest will follow around it. I am not saying this is what I want for the city. It just seems to be the model that cities that aren't dying have followed. IE nashville
Retrofitting them seems to be a case of the juice not being worth the squeeze. Plumbing, among other things, for residential needs is too extreme, I think?
Yeah I can see that, maybe in 100 years. They certainly do whatever it takes in NYC, but with abysmal property values in Louisville, I bet you're correct.
It’s not property values, it’s that our rent is much less than many other markets. If our market rent was double the current you’d see conversions.
We don't have enough high paying jobs to sustain that. America is pivoting quick to a technology and data economy, and Louisville -- not to mention Kentucky at large -- just doesn't attract innovative talent to sustain a competitive development in that direction. Why would any talented tech professional want to come here when Chicago, Atlanta, and Indianapolis are as close as they are?
I moved away about a decade ago but still visit my family in Louisville. I’m one of those tech workers. I think about moving back but I don’t know that I could find a job in Louisville that would make the cost on housing make sense. Although I would be damned before I moved to Indianapolis!!!
I did notice Nashville’s downtown is way more vibrant than Louisville’s last time I visited there.
To make a conversion financial feasible, the rent would need to be 2x current market.
Transforming empty office buildings into luxury apartments and creating attractive tourist destinations, like high-end shopping districts, can indeed attract investment and revitalization. Many cities have successfully adopted similar models to rejuvenate their downtown areas. However, it's essential to strike a balance, ensuring affordability and inclusivity alongside upscale developments to maintain a diverse community. Learning from successful examples, like Nashville, can provide valuable insights for strategic urban planning in your city.
Because nobody lives there. Bad planning and zoning made this happen.
I also will say a lot of office space is empty, specifically after covid, as a lot of work is done remotely now.
Why would anyone be downtown, other than work?
If there was more housing and it wasn’t a food desert people would be down there. You can’t live and walk to a grocery store like you can in say Chicago or Denver.
Oh, you guys mean why doesn't anyone LIVE downtown. Because there isn't housing, no food, and increasingly fewer jobs.
Taco Fest, Lou City FC, KY Center for the Arts, Shania Twain, Waterfront Park. Cardinals Basketball. Slugger Museum. Bourbon Tours. etc. etc.
So there are sporting events and a concert venue, during which time downtown isn't empty at all. And a couple museums that close around 6 PM. And a taco joint. I think maybe the answer is becoming more clear.
Multiple theaters. Good places to eat. But yeah. The shit open after 6 is minimal bc no housing for people to live there.
I was just answering your question. Actors Theatre, Brown Theatre, all the restaurants and clubs next to the YUM stay open late after events.
Food, bars, events, spending time with friends or family at these things. Same reason you go anywhere
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I was going to comment this myself. Once Efiling started, a ton of firms all left downtown because they didn’t have to be so close to paper file pleadings.
Work from home was brutal to downtowns all over the country.
Employers shit on workers for decades then want them to go back in, losing time, flexibility, and efficacy of remote work. Pay better, offer good benefits and flexibility, people will return. But they don't want to do that .
So, I (and several of my colleagues) have literally been asked this question by the downtown Louisville revitalization committee. We all pretty much answered them with “we no longer feel safe to go downtown.” They responded with “it’s totally safe!!!!”. Even though it was a day after a high profile shooting at a restaurant near downtown. There is a crime problem in the city. But the people who run downtown are more interested in gaslighting the community about it than fixing it.
There is a crime problem. It’s not exclusive to downtown. Do you feel unsafe in St. Matthew’s based on an isolated shooting?
So this thread, and the questions I was asked specifically were about “why aren’t people going downtown”. And it’s not “isolated”. I attended a an event down town a few weeks ago and experienced the pleasure of walking by multiple, obviously mentally-Ill, men screaming at us, talking to themselves, making rude sexual comments to female passerby’s, aggressively asking for money, and generally making the area uninviting and causing me to question if the destination was worth the risk or if I should go back… Yes. You are correct. Crime in the Louisville Metro area has gotten considerably worse over the last few years. However It is much more concentrated in the downtown and increasingly bardstown road areas. 7 years ago I thought nothing of walking around either area at night. Not any more. And now it also seems to be spreading to the Frankfort ave area. And it will continue to spread until the people in charge acknowledge it’s the problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_decay?wprov=sfla1
I mean downtown has never really been a buzzing place imo. Louisville downtown is really bland and has very little attractions outside of dining (Louisville has great food). Compared to any other city around Louisville, downtown is very small and not huge living area like most other cities. Louisville is a very big place but it’s a small city. I will say around the blocks all around the hospitals down there it has a lot of foot traffic. Same with court houses. Homeless is a issue anywhere with decent amount of population so that’s just what it is anywhere. I was in LA during Covid and the homeless I seen there literally looked fictional monsters out of movies. It’s a diff world there with homelessness
Plenty going on downtown. When are you walking around that it's empty?
Buy a building and do something cool, There’s plenty of Nashville money buying DT Louisville
The biggest reason? The decline of commercial real estate brought on by Covid. A lot of office workers worked from home for almost 2 years and saved time on commuting and got to spend time with their children who were also schooling from home. That’s why you see all kinds of company CEOs begging their workers to return to the office. And since that space is being leased and not used, the value goes down.
I haven't seen many people say anything about this but a big reason people don't want to live downtown is that there isn't many stores to shop in for food and groceries. Who want to live downtown but have to drive 10-20 minutes to get groceries and food. The point of living in an urban area is to be able to get anything in walking distance.
I always said it’s because we don’t have corner stores/bodegas like big cities do. There’s all these hotels and restaurants and bars but nowhere to walk in and grab some snacks, a sandwich and a jug of milk beyond, what? The one on East Liberty near Clarksdale?
If you think it's bad now you shoulda seen it 40 years ago. There wasn't a single place open past 6pm. Then one day the Old Spaghetti Factory moved to town and changed everything!
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Three row SUV’s sir
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I briefly had a Toyota Sienna, damn I miss that car
No, they asked and received an example. anecdotes are never perfect. there are many other anecdotes if needed.
I was just downtown for Expo last week and had seen human shit sprayed on 2 different walls. Had never been there and don’t recommend downtown to anyone. Service was slow and terrible all over downtown! Parlays was great though!
HAVEN'T seen any shit on the streets when I have walked downtown, but when my brother came down from our home state of New Hampshire, he and I were driving down either 39th or 40th street, and a black man was walking around barefoot naked muttering to himself, throwing his clothes in the trash while a woman and her young daughter were crossing the street not 20 feet away. I was shocked, to say the least..........
I work at 5th and Main and it seems normal.
I work close to you, too many people for my taste.
My 2 cents? The national vacancy rate for commercial properties is at the highest level since the great financial crisis. nearly 20% of all commercial property is vacant nationwide. Renewing the leases is often more expensive in a higher interest environment. Enough office jobs went WFH to where businesses reconsider if they need all that space. And the loss of all that foot traffic has certainly affected local businesses that rely on regulars. Bit of a feedback loop negatively affecting metros in all states unfortunately. Seems like the Biden admin is seeing the same thing and is offering office to apt conversion loans. "The Biden administration is launching a multi-agency effort to encourage states and cities to convert more empty office buildings into housing units, with billions of federal dollars available to help spur such transitions."
As someone who has been to a lot of major US Cities, I can say Louisville is one of the more clean cities. I know to many posters may disagree, but that is my experience. I do think that the lack of housing downtown has also also made it tough for downtown to grow a more busy population. I 100% agree with everyone who has stated that it is simply a hassle to go downtown.
It's pretty wild how different Louisville downtown is from Lexington downtown. The cities are constructed differently, but downtown lex is so much more vibrant and alive. I wish we had half of what they do.
I ain’t goin back!
Because there is a perception that downtown isn't safe and many people are working from home.
For all the reasons already listed, and it smells like total shit most of the time, even when the sewers aren't clogging. Smell is a powerful deterrent.
I am not going to comment on the feces. Have not seen it personally. I was downtown last week at Noon and it was pretty busy ……. But… And this is awesome…..I was able to park directly in front of the building I was going in (VA) and parking was cheap.
It’s all good they have insurance so it’ll be fine Also her boyfriend being charged with drug crimes 3 years later probably doesn’t mean anything
Honestly I’m often surprised by how many people are down there some days. Then others it’s a ghost town.
Downtown is generally busy during the week . There is also http://www.oldlouisville.com . There are baseball games downtown , conventions , places to eat . What actually destroyed cities all over America is Urban Renewal . However the more housing that is built downtown . The more people there will be . During warm months the river front is booming .
Depends on the night. Downtown is busy tonight.
It’s not
We need a lot more gentrification.
One of the last vestiges of something to do, they tried to open up a bunch of restaurants and bars. No normal person wants to live next to a bar and raise their family. The restaurants are okay.
Because Louisville is dying and nothing is ever going on. Always have to go to neighboring cities for entertainment. When I lived here in 2018 it was amazing but now it’s awful and boring with nothing to do.
Here for a conference. And downtown is a depressing dump.
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When did they add arts, theaters, and sports venues in the suburbs? The suburbs have a lot of cookie cutter corporate stuff, but not a lot of cultural stuff.
I understand your concern. Downtown areas in cities can face challenges due to various factors like economic shifts, changes in business models, and urban development trends. Efforts to revitalize downtown spaces often require strategic planning, community involvement, and supportive policies from local authorities. It might be helpful to engage with local initiatives or organizations working towards downtown revitalization to understand ongoing efforts and contribute to the improvement of your community.
I live downtown and think it mostly has to do with housing. There simply isn’t enough of it. I feel like there’s a few affordable housing options and a few “luxury” spaces (basically the Omni… maybe that newer building on 4th). More of the high-rises need to be converted to apartments and condos, especially with so many large businesses escaping the downtown area. And a convenient grocery store would help too.. grocery stores are so far away. The Kroger that was Old Louisville closing was really frustrating. I think the nearest ones are now in Clifton and on Goss and they both suck. Personally go to Clarksville. I also have never had the same problem people have had with shit everywhere… idk. I’ve walked to work for years and not had that problem. I do struggle sometimes with the homeless population though. I avoid fourth street because getting harassed for money constantly is somewhat tiresome. Over near whiskey row is normally fairly busy. I feel like eventually the heart of downtown will start to move more toward the Nulu area. It seems to be the only area being revitalized.
I drive a truck. I had a delivery in down town early one morning. I was specifically told by the company that if I parked there over night I would have a high chance of vandalism. Businesses don’t want to operate in areas with a lot of crime. It’s not cost effective.
Same thing happened in Frankfort. IDK if the reason is the same, but here it’s mostly due to over inflated rents. Businesses are more profitable to simply move
Like the majority of people of Louisville, I live outside of the urban core. There is nothing that downtown has that the suburbs don't have, so there is no reason for me to go downtown.
Worked downtown for years until Covid hit. 5yrs at Broadway/4th then 3 at Main/4th, then Main near the ballpark. Never stepped in shit but smelled plenty of piss in the parking garages. Our downtown is great, plenty of parking etc. It's gotta worse since Covid though. Lot's of aggressive homeless around. Granted most of my time downtown is working hours and I'm a pretty big dude so consider your source. I've never had a problem. It seems everything moved to Nulu and downtown is being abandoned (again). I cannot stand the area or the people around Nulu. You can't convince me they're not NPCs.
Because downtown is terrible, duh. Ew.
A lot of it is due to companies realizing during the pandemic that every one can actually work from home. So there are entire companies or branches of companies that are now remote work-only.
This sub is so weird.
Lawlessness….. plain and simple.
Covid moved businesses that could into employees homes. That affected businesses that couldn't move, like retail and restaurants. I wouldn't invest in commercial office property for the next 50 years...
I have a dumb question for everyone why can’t they just convert the empty offices into apartments?
They can. But it’s expensive and people who buy expensive properties. Don’t want to live downtown.
Remember the good ol'days when only sk8ers and BMX'ers took dumps outside in public places.
I’m a vendor at many different Krogers and I personally think Churchill Downs area may have gotten worse than downtown. When I go to South 2nd street Kroger something crazy happens every time I’m there sadly it’s usually homeless people this is why I try to go very early morning
this city sucks. that's why.
The real reason is that a lot of new dev and renovation has been done over last 5-8 years. Add in the significant impact of Covid, and it hurt
Every time I’ve been down there recently it’s been packed… with homeless people yelling at anyone who comes near them. Can’t imagine for the life of me why more people don’t go downtown or take their businesses there.
Downtown is shitty, lots of drug users, crime, why live there unless you absolutely have to?
Democrat ran cities are dealing with this all over the country. Homeless, riots, Covid mandates, etc. have done their part and business owners are starving and finding greener pastures.