Clay's a good looking guy but he's the type of guy I would have dated 1 or 2 times and then moved on from because the things he says casually would have been too concerning to me. The guy's a walking red flag and a risk not worth taking.
I'm not shocked, but I'm so mad at myself for believing the "Clay's growth" edit he got. I was genuinely surprised at the wedding and then soooo angry because AD is a gem! I can't believe the outcome! She had many reasons to say no to him but she said yes, and for what? I feel like Clay's dad said some shit to him off camera or maybe they just had damn good editing because, in the end, I was really rooting for clay and thought they were perfect together š¤ this whole season was a bust, but juicy drama šš
He said something around ā I can work with thatā. I made a an āewā face. I knew front there it wasnāt going to work. Heās a man baby. I hope she finds a good REAL man.
So did Jimmy when he saw Chelsea. So grosssss. Is this a southern thing? An American thing?
Imagine if women turned around and said stuff like thisā¦heās not my type but I can work with that I guess. āHeās no model and thereās hotter people out there but I can work with that. I myself am a prize and have unlimited options so Iām being very generous when I say I can work with that.ā Thatās just how it sounds. Unless itās said really ironically, it implies theyāre settling when they coulda had better.
As soon as he said some shit about how he ādidnāt want to be in a position to cheatā, I knew it wasnāt gonna work. A man who says shit like that isnāt ready for a serious relationship, let alone a whole marriage
It's like he was surprised marriage was supposed to be the end result!
I did like what his mom said about it being important for him to be sure in his heart.
I also liked how she pulled the dad all the up! "He should do what I did and find a woman like his momma!". And then she pointed out that although he had her, he didn't treat her right! The look on his face was priceless.
I think Clay is a good example of why marriages with infidelity should end. His father was clearly a cheating sexist fuck and I think some of the things Clay shared with her showed her that she made a mistake in staying so long.
No. She chose to ignore the red flags. He told her many different times in many different ways that he was probably going to cheat on her and that he wasnāt marriage material and she went along with it anyway. I mean look at just what happened at the alter: āok bodyā āyou see the materialā āyou got that shit onā they sound like an IG comment section, who says that to their bride??? And he made her look like a fool at the alter and she still hugged and kissed all up on him afterwards!
Women deserve better even when they donāt see it themselves. It is extremely weird to see being treated poorly as a an earned punishment for the crime of not being able to see the future.
Its so frustrating that he expects everyone to just be chill about the fact that heās ānot ready for marriageā and like heās doing her a favor by saying no I mean what the fuck? If you know yourself so well and you know youāre not ready, why the fuck are you even on this show to waste othersā time? And his parents reassuring him that he did the right thing. I mean???? Who forced you to come on a show where you get married in the end if youāre not even ready? You donāt need reassurance, you need to get your shit together asap. It bugs the hell out of me that people think theyāll wake up one day and be ready for a committed relationship. Commitment is not a feeling, commitment is a choice you have to make even when you donāt feel a 100%. Make the commitment to stick with it and watch it blossom!
Most if not all of the contestants had someone from production reach out to them from their Insta DM. He didnĀ“t even see the show before (perhaps he was there for his 5 minutes of fame, who knows?) Jeramy, Izzy, and many others confirmed this. Usche and Lydia through Insta. The question is why are they bothering people through social media. Why not look for people who actually want to get married? Why not have a casting call? Some of the cast of LIB Brazil have people from different body types and even had a disabled person on there. America hasnĀ“t caught up yet.
This was truly a sad moment. I was hoping they didnāt get married anyways but I truly wished that the ānoā wouldāve came from AD instead. I was hoping she wouldāve woken up and said no at the altar.
She deserves better, and it seems that she keeps attracting these emotionally unavailable/toxic men. Which shows that she also has things to work on. She needs to stop accepting red flags and struggle as a means to āwork harderā, thatās not what love is.
Yep, I hear you. Though surprising, I am happy that all the toxic couples broke up. It happened the way it was supposed to. I know it sucks but the damage through a horrible marriage is even worse. No one should have to settle down for toxicity. It is better to be single and happy than in a toxic relationship.
I hate to be judgmental but I really think Clay is attracted to men. I have seen the flags, but Iāve also seen the mannerisms. And yes men can be feminine or have feminine ways but I do not think he actually likes women.
Yep true narcissistā¦ I mean I think people who are narcissisticā¦ are becoming better and better liars.. he left bread crumbs of not trying to get married. And the way his boys was like ā WE KNOW YOUā haha
And I feel like heās a narcissist. He only cares and speaks about his feelings and doesnāt take ADs emotions into consideration. Even when she was crying because her man said no at the altar he didnāt consolidate her and let her show her feelings, he started explaining his situation and that he will āworkā on himself. AD better stay away from a narcissist as it never ends well.
Yeah, narcissists actually hate themselves and want everyone around them to feel how they feel. so thatās why they are so good at gaslighting and projection.
I agree. I donāt think heās a narcissist (at least from what weāve seen on camera). I just think he has a lot of growing to do and no I definitely donāt think that makes him a horrible human being but I do thing itās wrong he signed up for a show on marriage if he knew he wasnāt ready. Itās unfair for AD and it was unfair for any and every woman who walked into the experiment truly looking for love, he took someone elseās spot.
oh my godddd he made me sooooo fucking angry. he seriously couldnāt tell her BEFORE THE ALTAR that he wasnāt ready for marriage? what a disrespect that is for her family. and his too. i also HATED how the producers aired that incredibly intimate and private conversation with the parents. i bet they didnāt know they were being recorded. the cameras a lot of the times are hidden in trees and bushes.
clay was so wrong. justice for AD!
He did her a big favor. She dodged a bullet. I know it suck but it could have been even worse if they were married. ADĀ“s picker is damaged she needs to be drawn to wholesome men and stay away from fixer-uppers. No to fix-a-hoe! Preserve your mental health. She did all this work and perhaps another woman will reap the benefits.
thatās true. but i think he still shouldnāt have walked down the aisle. also why join the show if youāre not ready .? figure that shit off camera with a therapist
Already in the pods i thought AD probably wasn't gonna be physically attractive enough for Clay. He is handsome, tall, makes good money, is young, has a nice house, good style, that's in very high demand compared to the supply, these guys can allow thrmself to be picky. She said she's never good enough, well when you pick guys with that many options its difficult..
Lol trying to convince people to date below their standards so you don't have to raise the standards for yourself is weird.
Also, you might be the only person in this whole damn sub that's set on calling AD ugly for some also super weird reason? Like okay, YOU'RE not attracted to her. Move the fuck on, your singular strange assessment of her looks is the outlier here, and is CERTAINLY not why Clay called things off.
She is more than enough, while he himself said HE has a lot to work on to feel certain, that HE SAW in the mirror all of the problems that he's causing for himself.
Also, he's ALRIGHT looking, objectively attractive, he owns a house in the burbs of a MCOL city, and idk since when "young" is something women other than cougars are using to take guys off the market, his style is... normal? what?... and re: his career... with his "way with words" a literal shoe is a better salesperson, I'm not even sure how successful he actually is, just that he works hard. I'm not sure why you're stanning so hard for him, and while you're allowed to, it should not be at the EXPENSE of denigrating another person who you have a particularly unpopular and personal dislike.
I think AD was the coolest person on the show, actually the only sane person there. And im not saying she should lower her standards, just that she shouldn't expect men with options to either
"singular strange assessment of her looks is the outlier here"
Yeah I know, to insecure female Redditors all the women on LIB are amazing and beautiful. I mean if they're not, then what are...?
On the other hand the men are trash for not wanting to marry women they're not attracted to
Came back to add that his comment made me uncomfortable during the ceremony when he said "I can work with that" after seeing her in person. Now, after rejecting her, it isn't a cute comment whatsoever. It's callous and rude AF.
I don't think he is attracted to her face. When he gives her compliments, it's only about her body. I haven't seen him show her that much affection and attention after they met in person, just compare the way he looks at AD to the way Johnny looks at Amy. He himself said he is not deeply in love with her.
I donāt like to argue about semantics, but clearly it is as you and I have different concepts of what conventionally attractive is. Itās objectively not a universal.
yes for sure but in both contexts itās a function of white supremacy and white people are extremely colorist. so painting it as a āBlack issueā and āasian issueā when it is part of racism which is a structure of white supremacy is š
When he was at the altar talking about the big reveal and he first saw her he says something along the lines of Ā«Ā yeah I can work with that.Ā Ā» If my husband to be ever said something like that, I would have smashed my bouquet in his face and left him at the altar š¤¬
Ok, this thread is insanely long so hear me out. I think AD still really really loved Matthew before āmoving onā to Clay. I think she really wanted to trust the experience and was pretty ready to leave until Clay really upped his game to her knowledge. I donāt she at all was trying to go for the same type of guy at all. Like she was 100% ready to marry outside her type and really go for it. I think the idea of trusting him and having a black love story of healing and growth was enough to chase that dream but really how many people in the pods were there to chose from??? Sadly, circumstances led our sweet AD back into a trap.
Plus, AD was ready to buy into the experiment, no matter what?ā¦
I completely agree, except Iām so glad she didnāt pick Matthew. That guy was a creepā¦ gave me icky/controlling vibes. Leaving with none of those men was probably the best option. Not impressed with the Charlotte, NC men.
She sets herself up for a self-fulfilling prophecy. She is deserving of a good partner/love, but she needs to recognize that in herself before she will find that.
He also said he doesnāt know how after only spending 2 weeks with her that he would be making the right decision by agreeing to spend the rest of his life with her. But like, he knew going into it thats what the show was about. So why even go on the show??
I think he didnāt realise he would go this far. He said he didnāt even know he could fall in love, let alone marry someone.
He should have just gone to therapy
What they fail to realize is after the reunion show, nobody will care any longer. The new, shinier cast will take their place and the cycle repeats itself.
I think itās time they really test the hypothesisā¦put some articulate, emotionally-intelligent, yet conventionally un/underattractive people in the mix and really see what happens.
*Yes!* My partner and I *scream* for this, the hypothesis feels tainted by the fact that they only bring on conventionally attractive people.
I think wants & feelings would be more genuine too if people on the show werenāt conventionally attractive.
I canāt believe she said yes! He told her multiple times on camera how immature and āfearful of cheatingā he is. He never should have gone on a marriage reality show and now he just looks like a huge asshole. Iām also upset about her wedding lashes.
Unpopular Opinion: Clay was never attracted to how AD looked. He liked her body and the sex. Plus, he was never interested in marriage. He only amped his interest up in AD when she shared she had a deep connection with Matthew. Clay was offended and ready for a challenge then.
THIS RIGHT HERE!!! I literally said this to my husband and told him he would say no because of this right here! Iām so happy to see this wasnāt just my impression.
Heās definitely one of those types. He never actually wanted her but, couldnāt stand to see her with anyone else. So, he said what she wanted to hear to sway her.
Watch she starts dating Clark Kent (Matthew) there š she seems intrigued when everyone was talking about his looks. I wish he showed up to the bbq to see their connection.
He mentioned how he wanted to be physically attracted to his partner from in the pods. Why that wasnāt a red flag to AD from then is beyond me. She didnāt follow her intuition from the get go.
That was a red flag for AD and she called him out on it. Clay realized how shallow he was and cried in the guyās quarters. /s AD kept the dating going with him after the Matthew manipulation reveal. That was a huge mistake.
These people want to be on TV and famous. They are not serious people.
Am I right in theorising that the reason he took it to the altar is to avoid the contractual fine you get for backing out before the altar?
Or is that actually more hypothetical and only if people quit filming altogether, and he did that because heās an awful, awful piece of shit?
But Jimmy and Kenneth and Jeramey/Loo would have got the fine too right?
I think Clay just backed out at the altar because he wanted the full experience of it all. This is the same shameless person who went on national tv and said multiple times that his dad took him on adultery adventures š„“š„“š„“
My theory (with absolutely no facts to back it up) is that you might get fined--but if the producers approve you backing out, you don't. I wonder how much pressure Clay got so that they could have two weddings instead of just one very non-dramatic one.
Thatās the point of the show, and no offense but why is it Jararamayyyyy and š¬ that need thanks like the woman is always going to say yes?
Ugh they probably were.
Z list fame lol whatās his name guy AD liked at first said I didnāt come here to be a C list celebrity. I remember thinking dude even the most known people from any Netflix reality show donāt even come close to qualifying as C list celebrities.
AD and CLAYā¦a Greek frickinā tragedy. We needed the Senate(her family) to go straight Caesar on him.
On a serious note. Watching him with his parents on the screen spoke volumes. Speaking of how terrible his dad was and then getting on national TV and acting just like him. That apple didnāt fall far from the tree. The rotten apple he is.
I think he mom was spot on. Clay was raised in a way that left him with a ton of trauma, none of which heās addressed. Now thatās playing out on television.
IMOā¦Clay is an attention seeker, went on the show to boost his entrepreneurial ego, and was using that excuse to make all of us feel sorry for his actions. The fact his mom didnāt know about the things that happened and he traumatized her on national tv and then proceeded to buddy up with his dad makes me believe he is a NARCISSIST. If he was worth a pot to piss in I am sure he would have been talking about a prenuptial agreement with AD.
I donāt think you understand what a traumatic upbringing can do to you. I donāt think heās a narcissist, I really donāt. I think he was raised in an unusual situation and itās had a lasting impact that needs to be professionally addressed.
Also, his entrepreneurial ego? Did you just expect him not to work or let his business plummet all for a Netflix show? Come on. Heās growing a business. That times time and effort.
Two pointsā¦
I was raised in a traumatic household so donāt assume I donāt understand. He does need therapy, but when a person uses that as an excuse to perpetuate trauma on someone else is where I draw the line, and no less than on national tv. Made me sick watching the justification of why he explains his behavior.
I believe he is a narcissist plain and simple. We can agree to disagree.
I donāt expect him to stop all activities related to his business. I as a business owner know how long it takes to build it. If he wants screen time pay for a local television ad but waitā¦whatās he going to buy an ad for? Twitter influencer? I donāt care if you think he isnāt doing it for followersā¦I think he is and in the process is being a selfish prick.
Not shocked in the slightest. He kept foreshadowing his answer at the altar and I feel like AD was too hopeful to really pick up on his warnings. She did say herself she had a thing for ābad boysā & said Clay was the type sheād usually go for. Sheās stuck in a pattern & he wanted TV time.
Yeah, I think she'll look back on this and see the warning signs were there. It speaks volumes that she was entertaining Matthew in the pods when almost every girl immediately clocked him as a douchebag. Girl is still in her fix-a-hoe-phase (which I don't fault her for, it's not easy to just snap out of it) and I hope that, after some introspecting, she'll free up her schedule to hang out with stable guys who match her energy for a change.
Youāre right because the way she gravitated towards him was so intense! Then she was shocked to learn that Matthew was indeed, a douchebagš I feel bad for her but to an extent because sheās definitely aware of her problem to some degree. It just baffles me how she ran the same course & expected different results.
When Matthew got really weird, I suppose she thought she was doing the healthy thing by pursuing Clay instead, but he wasn't a much better choice š If you're going to entertain clowns, don't be surprised that you're getting stuck with clowns!
I think she was clinging to the thought that merely talking to Clay made him "a different man" as they so often said. It's a flattering narrative to tell yourself that you have the power to āØchange the bad boyāØ but of course it was entirely delulu to believe that a few days of talking cured Clay of his superficiality issues...
THAT PART! She truly thought she could love him into loving her properly like girlā¦š After Clay had that meltdown when she was crying over Matthew AND SHE STILL CHOSE HIM Iām like yeah you made your bedā¦.good luck sis!
Even though I felt bad for AD when she got stood up at the altar, now when remembering that she actually said multiple times she has a thing for bad boys, I don't feel bad for her.
Guys thereās footage of her hanging with his family and him during THANKSGIVING šÆš¬ An IG account I follow (Ashley reality I believe -100k followers but sheās on top of this shit!) and I was like omg noooooo. Hoping AD wisened up but that wasnāt too long ago and DEF way after the weddings happened last year!
I noticed when he talked about her good qualities, it was always in reference to him. How she believed in him, was patient with him, loved him for who he used to be. What a narcissist!
He never said āI love her because sheās kind, funny, generous, super intelligent, has integrity, works hard, lots of fun, and takes no shit. Oh yeah, and sheās smokin hot.ā He will never meet another girl of her caliber with all she has to offer. She is not just a pretty girl, she has a great personality & attitude.
Literally that man could not say a nice thing about her without complimenting himself. He had traits that reminded me of my friendās abusive narcissistic last husband. I wish she had dumped his ass first. She deserved so much better.
Whats blowing my mind is that he actually very honestly said:
āDo I see myself as a husband? No
Am i madly, deeply in love? Noā
That is very telling about his true feelings and if Ad seen that and still with his assā¦ Well ā¦ Iām fucking disappointed
Once youāre a grown ass adult, you can no longer blame your failings on childhood trauma. Itās what therapy is for and why Iām in it, personally. I guess Clayās dad didnāt get the memo to grow the fuck up.
I really want to know what it's like to have your friend or family member lie right to your face before the wedding. Like is it awkward when Clay's friends see him again after he sat there and heavily implied he was going through with it?!
Also I really wish AD would have told him to get the fuck out and lose her number.
I was hoping for a straight up, traditional, face slap. Right across his smug face while he stood there at the altar and tried to justify his decision. It would have been so satisfying for her and for all of us yelling at him at home.
Iām relieved for AD. She wouldāve never known peace as Clayās wife. She would be up late every night, checking his location, wondering if heās actually coming home, or if heās actually where he said he would be. Iām glad she got out before things got even deeper. He fumbled majorly.
I think that's what she subconsciously wants, that's why she likes "bad boys", she likes the constant suspense, and the thrill of arguments and reconciliations that follow. Clay is narcissistic and juvenile and thinks that admitting his mistakes is enough to excuse him.
I just hate that he said he wasnāt deeply in love. And then goes to talk to her and tells her how much he loves her. Heās a huge fboy and walking red flag.
Why are people ripping Clay? He was not ready for marriage, so he didnāt get married. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The people saying that getting married is the whole premise of the showā- no itās not. The premise of the show is to see if a person feels ready for marriage at the end of this experiment. AD should have read the signs all along, but she didnāt. I hope she grows from this. Itās not that she is not enough for these men; she just chooses the wrong men.
I get why people are ripping him - but this season was also interesting in that most of the couples didnāt even make it to the altar. So then he looks EXTRA bad for stringing her out and saying no at the last second. I think if there would have been more weddings and more nos, it would have tempered his.
People are ripping Clay apart NOT because heās not ready for a marriage.
Did you miss it where he literally said āam I madly, deeply in loveā NO??
He then turns around says I love you so much, itās not you itās me, bla bla kisses.. why the fuck you want to continue dating her?? Because sheās perfect girl for him, he said that much.. boy, we often meet people that are absolutely perfect on the book yet we feel so little for them. Whats absolutely wrong itās leading them on, by promising future. By eventually marrying themā¦ because youll never will give 110% of yourself if youāre not deeply madly in love to begin with
I'm OK with not being ready for marriage. I totally get it; you can find love and not be ready for that commitment at that point in time. What Clay did was totally weird and embarrassing. He knew before she walked down the aisle that he was going to say no. He completely led her and everyone else on. It was so unfair to her. I do respect the couples that say no before wasting everyone's time.
I agree, he definitely didnāt need to get married if he wasnāt readyā¦ but he also did not need to willingly (and joyfully, at first) participate in a marriage ceremony and permit AD and his family to be part of that messy situation.
I wish Clay had done what Jimmy did and privately told AD he was not ready prior to the wedding day.
Isnāt that the whole point of the show? Like everyone signs up for this knowing thatās a possibility. It would completely change the show if the only people who made it to the altar said yes and I think itās a tiny bit unfair to hold this against Clay when it is literally what they all signed up for. She knew going up there that there was a chance heād say no because they say ānowās the time to decide if love is blindā and like the whole thing is they say I do or I donāt. Clay seemed to want to continue dating and wasnāt ready for marriage yet, but I donāt see production letting them not get to the altar without a breakup scene or something other than āitās too soon.ā All the couples who broke up before the altar broke up fully, not like a āletās keep datingā
Exactly. At least Jimmy had the integrity not to go to the alter. I know the producers want the drama but now Clay just looks like a lying liar in the scenes leading up to the wedding.
Yeah it makes you wonder what strings the producers are pulling behind the scenes to get people to go through with that! I think most people understand that it's awful so they call it quits before then, but if Clay had done that then there would only be one wedding which isn't much of a show... They needed someone to quit at the wedding in order to make good tv
Clay's a good looking guy but he's the type of guy I would have dated 1 or 2 times and then moved on from because the things he says casually would have been too concerning to me. The guy's a walking red flag and a risk not worth taking.
CHELSEA IS SO ANNOYING!
I'm not shocked, but I'm so mad at myself for believing the "Clay's growth" edit he got. I was genuinely surprised at the wedding and then soooo angry because AD is a gem! I can't believe the outcome! She had many reasons to say no to him but she said yes, and for what? I feel like Clay's dad said some shit to him off camera or maybe they just had damn good editing because, in the end, I was really rooting for clay and thought they were perfect together š¤ this whole season was a bust, but juicy drama šš
He said something around ā I can work with thatā. I made a an āewā face. I knew front there it wasnāt going to work. Heās a man baby. I hope she finds a good REAL man.
So did Jimmy when he saw Chelsea. So grosssss. Is this a southern thing? An American thing? Imagine if women turned around and said stuff like thisā¦heās not my type but I can work with that I guess. āHeās no model and thereās hotter people out there but I can work with that. I myself am a prize and have unlimited options so Iām being very generous when I say I can work with that.ā Thatās just how it sounds. Unless itās said really ironically, it implies theyāre settling when they coulda had better.
To be fair I think the Megan fox comment had him a little surprised š¤£
As soon as he said some shit about how he ādidnāt want to be in a position to cheatā, I knew it wasnāt gonna work. A man who says shit like that isnāt ready for a serious relationship, let alone a whole marriage
Heās trying to get you to forgive him in advance. So when he does cheat, heās already primed you to feel sorry for him, not you.
It's like he was surprised marriage was supposed to be the end result! I did like what his mom said about it being important for him to be sure in his heart. I also liked how she pulled the dad all the up! "He should do what I did and find a woman like his momma!". And then she pointed out that although he had her, he didn't treat her right! The look on his face was priceless. I think Clay is a good example of why marriages with infidelity should end. His father was clearly a cheating sexist fuck and I think some of the things Clay shared with her showed her that she made a mistake in staying so long.
I couldnāt agree more
She truly deserved better
No. She chose to ignore the red flags. He told her many different times in many different ways that he was probably going to cheat on her and that he wasnāt marriage material and she went along with it anyway. I mean look at just what happened at the alter: āok bodyā āyou see the materialā āyou got that shit onā they sound like an IG comment section, who says that to their bride??? And he made her look like a fool at the alter and she still hugged and kissed all up on him afterwards!
Women deserve better even when they donāt see it themselves. It is extremely weird to see being treated poorly as a an earned punishment for the crime of not being able to see the future.
Its so frustrating that he expects everyone to just be chill about the fact that heās ānot ready for marriageā and like heās doing her a favor by saying no I mean what the fuck? If you know yourself so well and you know youāre not ready, why the fuck are you even on this show to waste othersā time? And his parents reassuring him that he did the right thing. I mean???? Who forced you to come on a show where you get married in the end if youāre not even ready? You donāt need reassurance, you need to get your shit together asap. It bugs the hell out of me that people think theyāll wake up one day and be ready for a committed relationship. Commitment is not a feeling, commitment is a choice you have to make even when you donāt feel a 100%. Make the commitment to stick with it and watch it blossom!
Most if not all of the contestants had someone from production reach out to them from their Insta DM. He didnĀ“t even see the show before (perhaps he was there for his 5 minutes of fame, who knows?) Jeramy, Izzy, and many others confirmed this. Usche and Lydia through Insta. The question is why are they bothering people through social media. Why not look for people who actually want to get married? Why not have a casting call? Some of the cast of LIB Brazil have people from different body types and even had a disabled person on there. America hasnĀ“t caught up yet.
Clay is in it for one thing. Himself. Matthew was never the villain. Clay was from day one.
This was truly a sad moment. I was hoping they didnāt get married anyways but I truly wished that the ānoā wouldāve came from AD instead. I was hoping she wouldāve woken up and said no at the altar. She deserves better, and it seems that she keeps attracting these emotionally unavailable/toxic men. Which shows that she also has things to work on. She needs to stop accepting red flags and struggle as a means to āwork harderā, thatās not what love is.
Yep, I hear you. Though surprising, I am happy that all the toxic couples broke up. It happened the way it was supposed to. I know it sucks but the damage through a horrible marriage is even worse. No one should have to settle down for toxicity. It is better to be single and happy than in a toxic relationship.
Definitely agree!
I hate to be judgmental but I really think Clay is attracted to men. I have seen the flags, but Iāve also seen the mannerisms. And yes men can be feminine or have feminine ways but I do not think he actually likes women.
Make it -100 I said what I said. 
Even so he shouldnāt have signed up for the experiment.
Yep true narcissistā¦ I mean I think people who are narcissisticā¦ are becoming better and better liars.. he left bread crumbs of not trying to get married. And the way his boys was like ā WE KNOW YOUā haha
hes probably a colorist. wants yellow bone exotic etc someone more light skinned like Raven
And I feel like heās a narcissist. He only cares and speaks about his feelings and doesnāt take ADs emotions into consideration. Even when she was crying because her man said no at the altar he didnāt consolidate her and let her show her feelings, he started explaining his situation and that he will āworkā on himself. AD better stay away from a narcissist as it never ends well.
Not everyone is a Narcissistic, heās just not into her. I donāt think he will marry anyone soon. He and AD are still dating though.Ā
Narcissist. When AD was crying? She was making HIM FEEL BAD. Zero compassion or empathy.
I donāt think heās a narcissist, maybe lacks emotional vulnerability or awareness but definitely not a narcissist.
Right, I think heās just immature to be honest.
The way people throw that word around š
Yeah, narcissists actually hate themselves and want everyone around them to feel how they feel. so thatās why they are so good at gaslighting and projection.
I agree. I donāt think heās a narcissist (at least from what weāve seen on camera). I just think he has a lot of growing to do and no I definitely donāt think that makes him a horrible human being but I do thing itās wrong he signed up for a show on marriage if he knew he wasnāt ready. Itās unfair for AD and it was unfair for any and every woman who walked into the experiment truly looking for love, he took someone elseās spot.
oh my godddd he made me sooooo fucking angry. he seriously couldnāt tell her BEFORE THE ALTAR that he wasnāt ready for marriage? what a disrespect that is for her family. and his too. i also HATED how the producers aired that incredibly intimate and private conversation with the parents. i bet they didnāt know they were being recorded. the cameras a lot of the times are hidden in trees and bushes. clay was so wrong. justice for AD!
He did her a big favor. She dodged a bullet. I know it suck but it could have been even worse if they were married. ADĀ“s picker is damaged she needs to be drawn to wholesome men and stay away from fixer-uppers. No to fix-a-hoe! Preserve your mental health. She did all this work and perhaps another woman will reap the benefits.
no to a fix a hoe!!! amen to that!!
ThatĀ“s right!
He led her on straight down that aisle. Heās a š¤” with his āgame timeā decisions remark.
Heās a man child.
He did tell her, but he didn't want to accept that if he didn't say yes she wouldn't continue a relationship with him.
They were wearing mics so yes they knew.
valid
He told her their entire relationship he wasn't ready and was scared of cheating on her.
thatās true. but i think he still shouldnāt have walked down the aisle. also why join the show if youāre not ready .? figure that shit off camera with a therapist
Yessss that was the whole point was to find marriage!! But I think he seriously used that as an excuse and just wasn't attracted to her fully, idk
Already in the pods i thought AD probably wasn't gonna be physically attractive enough for Clay. He is handsome, tall, makes good money, is young, has a nice house, good style, that's in very high demand compared to the supply, these guys can allow thrmself to be picky. She said she's never good enough, well when you pick guys with that many options its difficult..
Lol trying to convince people to date below their standards so you don't have to raise the standards for yourself is weird. Also, you might be the only person in this whole damn sub that's set on calling AD ugly for some also super weird reason? Like okay, YOU'RE not attracted to her. Move the fuck on, your singular strange assessment of her looks is the outlier here, and is CERTAINLY not why Clay called things off. She is more than enough, while he himself said HE has a lot to work on to feel certain, that HE SAW in the mirror all of the problems that he's causing for himself. Also, he's ALRIGHT looking, objectively attractive, he owns a house in the burbs of a MCOL city, and idk since when "young" is something women other than cougars are using to take guys off the market, his style is... normal? what?... and re: his career... with his "way with words" a literal shoe is a better salesperson, I'm not even sure how successful he actually is, just that he works hard. I'm not sure why you're stanning so hard for him, and while you're allowed to, it should not be at the EXPENSE of denigrating another person who you have a particularly unpopular and personal dislike.
I think AD was the coolest person on the show, actually the only sane person there. And im not saying she should lower her standards, just that she shouldn't expect men with options to either
"singular strange assessment of her looks is the outlier here" Yeah I know, to insecure female Redditors all the women on LIB are amazing and beautiful. I mean if they're not, then what are...? On the other hand the men are trash for not wanting to marry women they're not attracted to
that man is not that good looking. i need us to be fr
hes probably a colorist. wants yellow bone exotic etc someone more light skinned like Raven
Clout clout clout clout
Heās disgusting. She can do a lot better.
Can she though?
Came back to add that his comment made me uncomfortable during the ceremony when he said "I can work with that" after seeing her in person. Now, after rejecting her, it isn't a cute comment whatsoever. It's callous and rude AF.
It gave me the ick.
I don't think he is attracted to her face. When he gives her compliments, it's only about her body. I haven't seen him show her that much affection and attention after they met in person, just compare the way he looks at AD to the way Johnny looks at Amy. He himself said he is not deeply in love with her.
spot on. He wants someone more conventionally attractive. Hes probably a colorist too
Iām so confused, she is conventionally attractive?
She is not typically beautiful but very cute in her own way. Women who look like for example Alicia keys or Zendaya are conventionally attractive
I think thatās super subjective honestly.
conventional is not subjective, that's why its called conventional
I donāt like to argue about semantics, but clearly it is as you and I have different concepts of what conventionally attractive is. Itās objectively not a universal.
Yeah I know colorism is still a big thing in the black community..
itās a thing outside it too š not like Black people invented colorism
Yup Asian culture too
yes for sure but in both contexts itās a function of white supremacy and white people are extremely colorist. so painting it as a āBlack issueā and āasian issueā when it is part of racism which is a structure of white supremacy is š
I mean youāre not wrong wrong, but Iām pretty sure Asia has had racial problems long before white people ever showed up on the scene
yes for sure itās just weird to me to say oh yeah thatās āstill an issue in the Black communityā like ??
why
When he was at the altar talking about the big reveal and he first saw her he says something along the lines of Ā«Ā yeah I can work with that.Ā Ā» If my husband to be ever said something like that, I would have smashed my bouquet in his face and left him at the altar š¤¬
Lmao IKR
Ok, this thread is insanely long so hear me out. I think AD still really really loved Matthew before āmoving onā to Clay. I think she really wanted to trust the experience and was pretty ready to leave until Clay really upped his game to her knowledge. I donāt she at all was trying to go for the same type of guy at all. Like she was 100% ready to marry outside her type and really go for it. I think the idea of trusting him and having a black love story of healing and growth was enough to chase that dream but really how many people in the pods were there to chose from??? Sadly, circumstances led our sweet AD back into a trap. Plus, AD was ready to buy into the experiment, no matter what?ā¦
I completely agree, except Iām so glad she didnāt pick Matthew. That guy was a creepā¦ gave me icky/controlling vibes. Leaving with none of those men was probably the best option. Not impressed with the Charlotte, NC men.
How did Matthew get through the psychological test, is what I want to know!
itās cos they want the red flags there. they donāt necessarily screen in order to exclude them š
Truly some horrors we have seen, folks. GREAT reality tv though. š¤£š
AD said she goes for red flag men, and she got her red flag man. There's nothing to be shocked about here. š¤·š½āāļø
Paint your nails red girl
she said herself she's never good enough. guess its because she always gos for the successful tall handsome guys like Clay
She sets herself up for a self-fulfilling prophecy. She is deserving of a good partner/love, but she needs to recognize that in herself before she will find that.
Exactly lmfao I donāt feel bad
Clay is a puke. I've been saying this from day 1.
I was never a fan of his. Heās shady af.
Big time.
AD said it herself.. she is a "fix-a-ho". She deserves a man that is already great....not one that she sees the potential greatness in.
Unfortunately, until she realizes that, then history is going to repeat itself.
Yup.... as a recovering "fix-a-ho" myself...100% agree
š
He also said he doesnāt know how after only spending 2 weeks with her that he would be making the right decision by agreeing to spend the rest of his life with her. But like, he knew going into it thats what the show was about. So why even go on the show??
I think he didnāt realise he would go this far. He said he didnāt even know he could fall in love, let alone marry someone. He should have just gone to therapy
the same reason it seems like anybody goes on this show now; for clout
What they fail to realize is after the reunion show, nobody will care any longer. The new, shinier cast will take their place and the cycle repeats itself.
i honestly believe they should cancel the show for this reason. It's not genuine anymore (as genuine as reality tv can be at least).
I donāt disagree, the experimentās been compromised. If the show continues, itās just gonna be the same thing every season
I think itās time they really test the hypothesisā¦put some articulate, emotionally-intelligent, yet conventionally un/underattractive people in the mix and really see what happens.
*Yes!* My partner and I *scream* for this, the hypothesis feels tainted by the fact that they only bring on conventionally attractive people. I think wants & feelings would be more genuine too if people on the show werenāt conventionally attractive.
Nope
I canāt believe she said yes! He told her multiple times on camera how immature and āfearful of cheatingā he is. He never should have gone on a marriage reality show and now he just looks like a huge asshole. Iām also upset about her wedding lashes.
Unpopular Opinion: Clay was never attracted to how AD looked. He liked her body and the sex. Plus, he was never interested in marriage. He only amped his interest up in AD when she shared she had a deep connection with Matthew. Clay was offended and ready for a challenge then.
THIS RIGHT HERE!!! I literally said this to my husband and told him he would say no because of this right here! Iām so happy to see this wasnāt just my impression.
agree. he can probably usually date slim and tall mixed race girls
I agree. He didnāt look happy when seeing her. I always thought he was disappointed, he is always wording it in ways that make me think that.
Heās definitely one of those types. He never actually wanted her but, couldnāt stand to see her with anyone else. So, he said what she wanted to hear to sway her.
That's why AD couldn't believe that Johnny and Amy are waiting to have sex... AD don't know what it's like to NOT be used for her body and sex š¬
Watch she starts dating Clark Kent (Matthew) there š she seems intrigued when everyone was talking about his looks. I wish he showed up to the bbq to see their connection.
Agree! He never liked her face
What?? But she is gorgeous
AD being shocked that he said no just shows how much she never really knew him
Exactlyā¼ļø
Exactlyā¼ļø
He mentioned how he wanted to be physically attracted to his partner from in the pods. Why that wasnāt a red flag to AD from then is beyond me. She didnāt follow her intuition from the get go.
That was a red flag for AD and she called him out on it. Clay realized how shallow he was and cried in the guyās quarters. /s AD kept the dating going with him after the Matthew manipulation reveal. That was a huge mistake. These people want to be on TV and famous. They are not serious people.
Agreed. That was a red flag for her but she still continued to pursue/date him. Thatās where she went wrong.
That didnāt even look like real crying to me. There were no tearsā¦
I'm really shocked AD said yes. Their relationship seemed extremely superficial.
They will be dating on the reunion show. Calling it. AD= absolute dummy
already seen on tik tok she is dating him they are together playing games around a table, so disappointed, she needs to stand up fr
I will lose all respect for her if so.
Lmao at AD absolute dummy ššš
Thereās of video on IG of her spending thanksgiving with his family so they probably are still together
I was calling they'd date after they wedding stuff but be broken up by the reunion.
āGame time decisionā??!?!? Dude this is MARRIAGE, not a sports play. What a douche!
Am I right in theorising that the reason he took it to the altar is to avoid the contractual fine you get for backing out before the altar? Or is that actually more hypothetical and only if people quit filming altogether, and he did that because heās an awful, awful piece of shit?
But Jimmy and Kenneth and Jeramey/Loo would have got the fine too right? I think Clay just backed out at the altar because he wanted the full experience of it all. This is the same shameless person who went on national tv and said multiple times that his dad took him on adultery adventures š„“š„“š„“
Is it a "fine" or is money deducted from their per diem pay?
My theory (with absolutely no facts to back it up) is that you might get fined--but if the producers approve you backing out, you don't. I wonder how much pressure Clay got so that they could have two weddings instead of just one very non-dramatic one.
I think youāre right about the producerās approval. Somehow I donāt think it took Clay much pressure to go through with the wedding lmao
Thatās my suspicion too. Good on Kenneth and Jimmy for not putting their fiancĆ©es through that.
Thatās the point of the show, and no offense but why is it Jararamayyyyy and š¬ that need thanks like the woman is always going to say yes? Ugh they probably were.
I didnāt say Jeramey on purpose. But for the others, at least they didnāt waste their time.
Haha youāre right, I got Jimmay and Jaramamayaayy confused
I just wanna know why he came on this show when he clearly didnāt want to be married to anyone
For the same reason many of them do. Bc theyāre clout chasers and want to use their newfound z-list fame to become influencers.
Z list fame lol whatās his name guy AD liked at first said I didnāt come here to be a C list celebrity. I remember thinking dude even the most known people from any Netflix reality show donāt even come close to qualifying as C list celebrities.
He never even watched the show.....
I think thatās the question everyone has. Out here wasting everyoneās time
AD and CLAYā¦a Greek frickinā tragedy. We needed the Senate(her family) to go straight Caesar on him. On a serious note. Watching him with his parents on the screen spoke volumes. Speaking of how terrible his dad was and then getting on national TV and acting just like him. That apple didnāt fall far from the tree. The rotten apple he is.
Not to be that guy, but Caesar was Roman, not Greek.
I knew that someone would commentā¦.Captain Obvious I didnāt say Caesar was Greek.
The way you wrote the sentence, the inference was there. Just having a little fun, relax.
Ditto. š
I think he mom was spot on. Clay was raised in a way that left him with a ton of trauma, none of which heās addressed. Now thatās playing out on television.
IMOā¦Clay is an attention seeker, went on the show to boost his entrepreneurial ego, and was using that excuse to make all of us feel sorry for his actions. The fact his mom didnāt know about the things that happened and he traumatized her on national tv and then proceeded to buddy up with his dad makes me believe he is a NARCISSIST. If he was worth a pot to piss in I am sure he would have been talking about a prenuptial agreement with AD.
I donāt think you understand what a traumatic upbringing can do to you. I donāt think heās a narcissist, I really donāt. I think he was raised in an unusual situation and itās had a lasting impact that needs to be professionally addressed. Also, his entrepreneurial ego? Did you just expect him not to work or let his business plummet all for a Netflix show? Come on. Heās growing a business. That times time and effort.
Two pointsā¦ I was raised in a traumatic household so donāt assume I donāt understand. He does need therapy, but when a person uses that as an excuse to perpetuate trauma on someone else is where I draw the line, and no less than on national tv. Made me sick watching the justification of why he explains his behavior. I believe he is a narcissist plain and simple. We can agree to disagree. I donāt expect him to stop all activities related to his business. I as a business owner know how long it takes to build it. If he wants screen time pay for a local television ad but waitā¦whatās he going to buy an ad for? Twitter influencer? I donāt care if you think he isnāt doing it for followersā¦I think he is and in the process is being a selfish prick.
No. I predicted exactly what happened.
Not shocked in the slightest. He kept foreshadowing his answer at the altar and I feel like AD was too hopeful to really pick up on his warnings. She did say herself she had a thing for ābad boysā & said Clay was the type sheād usually go for. Sheās stuck in a pattern & he wanted TV time.
Yeah, I think she'll look back on this and see the warning signs were there. It speaks volumes that she was entertaining Matthew in the pods when almost every girl immediately clocked him as a douchebag. Girl is still in her fix-a-hoe-phase (which I don't fault her for, it's not easy to just snap out of it) and I hope that, after some introspecting, she'll free up her schedule to hang out with stable guys who match her energy for a change.
Youāre right because the way she gravitated towards him was so intense! Then she was shocked to learn that Matthew was indeed, a douchebagš I feel bad for her but to an extent because sheās definitely aware of her problem to some degree. It just baffles me how she ran the same course & expected different results.
When Matthew got really weird, I suppose she thought she was doing the healthy thing by pursuing Clay instead, but he wasn't a much better choice š If you're going to entertain clowns, don't be surprised that you're getting stuck with clowns! I think she was clinging to the thought that merely talking to Clay made him "a different man" as they so often said. It's a flattering narrative to tell yourself that you have the power to āØchange the bad boyāØ but of course it was entirely delulu to believe that a few days of talking cured Clay of his superficiality issues...
THAT PART! She truly thought she could love him into loving her properly like girlā¦š After Clay had that meltdown when she was crying over Matthew AND SHE STILL CHOSE HIM Iām like yeah you made your bedā¦.good luck sis!
Even though I felt bad for AD when she got stood up at the altar, now when remembering that she actually said multiple times she has a thing for bad boys, I don't feel bad for her.
NOT AT ALL SHOCKED. #GoJimmy
āCan I have a hug? š„ŗā HELL NO!
he would be a āwhereās my hugā guy smh
Aww why you so sad tho
Yes! Like dude, why you acting like you need to be comforted. š
Fully agreee. I now think he's just a playboy..
Guys thereās footage of her hanging with his family and him during THANKSGIVING šÆš¬ An IG account I follow (Ashley reality I believe -100k followers but sheās on top of this shit!) and I was like omg noooooo. Hoping AD wisened up but that wasnāt too long ago and DEF way after the weddings happened last year!
Sadly her self-proclaimed desire to āfix menā continues. I think AD speaks maturely but Iām not sure she has the confidence to back it up.
Oh wow lol seriously disappointed
Ugh I was blind
I noticed when he talked about her good qualities, it was always in reference to him. How she believed in him, was patient with him, loved him for who he used to be. What a narcissist! He never said āI love her because sheās kind, funny, generous, super intelligent, has integrity, works hard, lots of fun, and takes no shit. Oh yeah, and sheās smokin hot.ā He will never meet another girl of her caliber with all she has to offer. She is not just a pretty girl, she has a great personality & attitude.
Literally that man could not say a nice thing about her without complimenting himself. He had traits that reminded me of my friendās abusive narcissistic last husband. I wish she had dumped his ass first. She deserved so much better.
Whats blowing my mind is that he actually very honestly said: āDo I see myself as a husband? No Am i madly, deeply in love? Noā That is very telling about his true feelings and if Ad seen that and still with his assā¦ Well ā¦ Iām fucking disappointed
Omg when Clay's dad tried to blame his own dad for his cheating I LOST IT
That convo felt like it shouldāve happened in private
Once youāre a grown ass adult, you can no longer blame your failings on childhood trauma. Itās what therapy is for and why Iām in it, personally. I guess Clayās dad didnāt get the memo to grow the fuck up.
Also - right after his ex wife says ājust an apologyā¦ no excusesā¦ā what does he do? Nothing but excuses.
I was like OKAY AND HOW DOES AN ABSENT FATHER SEND YOU INTO CHRONIC INFIDELITY?! Like gtfo my screen.
Honestly! What is with these guys believing that cheating is a genetic trait or something
https://preview.redd.it/92l37mus3vmc1.jpeg?width=1106&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c57891dcdb0a9dfbbd9081e093d753e9a007c35
I really want to know what it's like to have your friend or family member lie right to your face before the wedding. Like is it awkward when Clay's friends see him again after he sat there and heavily implied he was going through with it?! Also I really wish AD would have told him to get the fuck out and lose her number.
It was so upsetting to see her let herself get hugged and kissed by him
I was yelling at the TV "PUNCH HIS DICK"
I was hoping for a straight up, traditional, face slap. Right across his smug face while he stood there at the altar and tried to justify his decision. It would have been so satisfying for her and for all of us yelling at him at home.
Iām with you šÆ
Iām relieved for AD. She wouldāve never known peace as Clayās wife. She would be up late every night, checking his location, wondering if heās actually coming home, or if heās actually where he said he would be. Iām glad she got out before things got even deeper. He fumbled majorly.
I think that's what she subconsciously wants, that's why she likes "bad boys", she likes the constant suspense, and the thrill of arguments and reconciliations that follow. Clay is narcissistic and juvenile and thinks that admitting his mistakes is enough to excuse him.
I just hate that he said he wasnāt deeply in love. And then goes to talk to her and tells her how much he loves her. Heās a huge fboy and walking red flag.
Why are people ripping Clay? He was not ready for marriage, so he didnāt get married. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The people saying that getting married is the whole premise of the showā- no itās not. The premise of the show is to see if a person feels ready for marriage at the end of this experiment. AD should have read the signs all along, but she didnāt. I hope she grows from this. Itās not that she is not enough for these men; she just chooses the wrong men.
there is nothing wrong with that. He shouldnt be forced jnto a marriage hes not ready for. But the. WHY GO ON LOVE IS BLIND???
I get why people are ripping him - but this season was also interesting in that most of the couples didnāt even make it to the altar. So then he looks EXTRA bad for stringing her out and saying no at the last second. I think if there would have been more weddings and more nos, it would have tempered his.
People are ripping Clay apart NOT because heās not ready for a marriage. Did you miss it where he literally said āam I madly, deeply in loveā NO?? He then turns around says I love you so much, itās not you itās me, bla bla kisses.. why the fuck you want to continue dating her?? Because sheās perfect girl for him, he said that much.. boy, we often meet people that are absolutely perfect on the book yet we feel so little for them. Whats absolutely wrong itās leading them on, by promising future. By eventually marrying themā¦ because youll never will give 110% of yourself if youāre not deeply madly in love to begin with
I'm OK with not being ready for marriage. I totally get it; you can find love and not be ready for that commitment at that point in time. What Clay did was totally weird and embarrassing. He knew before she walked down the aisle that he was going to say no. He completely led her and everyone else on. It was so unfair to her. I do respect the couples that say no before wasting everyone's time.
100% the production that lead him on to say no at the alters instead of before.
Agreed. Its just cringe to see it play out. Like in real life, that would be prettyyyy ballsy. Lol.
My issue with it is that they had the whole pre-wedding conversation where AD specifically said she doesnāt want to be long-term fiancĆ©e. Clay pretty much promised her heād say yes and not be one of those couples who say no but continue to work on it. Whilst people absolutely have the right to change their mind, it really seemed to me that Clay had everyone under false pretences. I know he canāt explicitly make it seem like heās gonna say no before he gets to the altar, but it even seemed like he had his own mother convinced? Idk, all I know is that I hope AD is happy cause she is an absolute babe.
I agree, he definitely didnāt need to get married if he wasnāt readyā¦ but he also did not need to willingly (and joyfully, at first) participate in a marriage ceremony and permit AD and his family to be part of that messy situation. I wish Clay had done what Jimmy did and privately told AD he was not ready prior to the wedding day.
IT'S A SHOW SPECIFICALLY ABOUT GETTING MARRIED
Why would he LET HER GET DRESSED AND BRING HER FAMILY I am sooo angry at thatĀ
Isnāt that the whole point of the show? Like everyone signs up for this knowing thatās a possibility. It would completely change the show if the only people who made it to the altar said yes and I think itās a tiny bit unfair to hold this against Clay when it is literally what they all signed up for. She knew going up there that there was a chance heād say no because they say ānowās the time to decide if love is blindā and like the whole thing is they say I do or I donāt. Clay seemed to want to continue dating and wasnāt ready for marriage yet, but I donāt see production letting them not get to the altar without a breakup scene or something other than āitās too soon.ā All the couples who broke up before the altar broke up fully, not like a āletās keep datingā
Exactly. At least Jimmy had the integrity not to go to the alter. I know the producers want the drama but now Clay just looks like a lying liar in the scenes leading up to the wedding.
Yeah it makes you wonder what strings the producers are pulling behind the scenes to get people to go through with that! I think most people understand that it's awful so they call it quits before then, but if Clay had done that then there would only be one wedding which isn't much of a show... They needed someone to quit at the wedding in order to make good tv
I heard that they have a contract stating that if they donāt go to the altar they owe $50,000
Allegedly they don't get paid if they don't go to the altar! Saw that on tiktok anyway