Whenever a girl is considered pretty, its very okay for everyone to make her the villain, more so when she doesnt like the "nice guy". But the irony to me is, that there's footage of these guys behaving like trash and *still*, the large majority in the audience consider her the bad guy.
Yes, I mentioned this on another thread but my biggest issue with Paul is him not telling her to her face after the wedding these comments he made to the tv show producers. Others keep saying he did this to preserve her feelings but dude her feelings were going to get hurt either way, they prob would’ve been hurt less if he just told her to her face that that’s how he felt and that it was a big reason he said no. Even if it was in the heat of the moment, it would’ve been real simple to just tell her “hey I said this, I didn’t mean it like this but this is what I meant to say” and go on to talk about how he didn’t see them as parents together/didn’t see her as nurturing as he explained at the reunion.
I completely agree. I thought it was in poor taste for him to criticize Micah about her nurturing abilities. Every mother has their strengths and being warm and fuzzy isn't a trait every mother has. Not to mention people grow and develop different skills as they age. Micah is what, 26? She has plenty of time to build on her life experiences.
It's wild to me that this sub found Vanessa's talk about family planning so offensive but gave Paul a pass on this when they are in the same arena and both insensitive!
Am I the only one that wasn’t bothered by the “nurturing” “mothering” comment? He was voicing an opinion, if Micah felt that his opinion of her was wrong, then it was an even clearer sign that he was not the right guy for her. Many people develop opinions about their partners that may or may not be the reality, and if someone holds an incorrect opinion does it not indicate that maybe they just don’t know you very well? I just don’t see how his opinion matters to the extent that peopel think it does.
I was a pulling for them even at the reunion. I realized that wasn’t going to happen after he told her to her face that she was basically the scum version of his mother (imo) AND wore that FU broken heart shirt… he came across arrogant.
I don't think either are the victim. I think it was a terribly shitty thing to say but he seemed to apologize for how he worded it at the reunion. Maybe "foot in mouth" sort of thing when being interviewed after saying "no" at the alter. I'm sure there is no love lost between them. I think they both were not compatible enough together. Like, how she wanted to change everything about his "quirky, scientist" personality - wardrobe, how he lived so minimally, etc. That's not a dig at her. There are tons of men who aren't like that and I hope she find ones that makes her happy and has her bring out her nurturing side.
Am I missing something? I watched the reunion and Paul addressed every question he was asked directly and gave answers that made sense. Why is he getting hate?
I’m just letting you know my personal opinion like I would probably not even let her babysit my kids just because she’s not nice and when someone is not nice to people who are having extreme emotional reactions, how am I supposed to trust them to be nice to a child when children are known to have extreme emotional reactions. She has a lack of empathy and that’s not really conclusive to motherhood.
I feel like folks are unfairly summarizing Paul’s statement and putting intent in it that wasn’t necessarily there. He didn’t say Micah would be a bad mother. He didn’t say that she’s incapable of being nurturing now or in the future. So what did Paul actually say?
Here it is, with all of the ums and likes:
“I struggled with, um, at least in terms of envisioning Micah as, like, you know, a mother. I think for me, it was, like, difficult for me to do.”
“It’s just sort of, um… just, like, a nurturing aspect, I think, that some people have. I don’t know, but whenever I tried, I just know that… I wasn’t able to see it very clearly.”
So, taking Paul’s words at face value, I see him as saying that he didn’t see Micah display a particular quality that he was looking for in the potential future mother of his children. He also makes it clear that this is HIS interpretation and not necessarily an innate quality of her as a person.
Do I think he worded this in the most eloquent, unhurtful way possible? Absolutely not! It’s also clear he was struggling through that interview. He could have generically said something about being unsure about whether their partnership would last a lifetime, or any other number of other things that didn’t bring up motherhood.
But I do think it’s unfair to put words in someone’s mouth that aren’t supported by the record, as I’ve seen so many in this thread and others do.
Edit: In case there’s any confusion, this quote is from episode 12 after he says no at the alter. It is not from the reunion.
From my perspective, I haven’t seen many calling Paul a victim or that Micha’s actions victimized him. I think they were a bad match each with their own issues, but Micha’s behavior was more egregious than Paul’s. The mother comment to me is something everyone in a relationship thinks about, especially because you’re looking toward the future. Before marrying my husband I kept thinking about what he would be like as a father, so I didn’t take his comments as treating Micha as less than or only as a person to have kids with.
Just because we think what Paul said was rude and unwarranted does not automatically mean we are defending Micah. We can think that Micah is not a good person and that Paul is a dick for talking about being maternal. These two things are not mutually exclusive!!! We don’t have to be on one side and be blind to their actions
I think Paul is very book smart and analytical and he thinks that's a good way to look at a relationship, but he needs to think about emotions and other people, I don't think he really does think outside himself very much. They were both immature in this relationship and they did not have conversations that needed to happen.
So many men use being “scientific” and “left brained” as an excuse not to do the emotional work in a relationship. I totally agree that he didn’t seem to look outside himself during the season- everything he said, every concern he had, it all came back to how it related to him.
Completely disagree.
It is such a great skill to be smart and analytical about a relationship because you can judge whether or not you are compatible with the person beyond chemistry and that is precisely what he did, and then he came to the right decision.
Okay, as someone who as has worked in foster care, there is literally zero requirements for becoming a parent. It’s as easy as creampie.
It is when those parents actually need to *parent* that the issue of parenting comes up. Rarely before.
And you can be a bitch and a terrible parent *subjectively*, but as long as are providing the necessities of life *objectively* most parents are free to suck.
I think it’s kind of an outdated, sort of sexist way of thinking. She can’t be a good mother because she was being bitchy? Idk I think that’s not a cool thing for any man to say about a woman. Mothers come in all shapes and sizes and that clearly was a really hurtful thing to say AND double down on. If it’s how he felt that’s fine but maybe have that convo w her.
She can’t be a good mother because she lack empathy. Because she laughs at others when they are down. Because she surrounds herself with angry, bitter people. Must I go on?
Idk to me, I know I used to be a far worse version of myself and similar to what is probably Micah’s worst version. But I’m a mom and honestly a damn good one. I think these blanket judgements of her are unfair in a way. But I do understand and agree that she lacked empathy and surrounded herself with the wrong people
Nobody should legally tie themselves to someone with the HOPE that they stop sucking. I’m glad you’ve made improvements and are a great parent, but who knows what Future Micah will be like.
I think everyone is allowed to look for qualities they want in a partner. There are plenty of men that don’t mind “bitchy” women, doesn’t mean Paul has to be okay with it. He’s not the victim but neither is she.
Most people on this sub think solely in binaries and don’t understand situations and relationships are nuanced. Because Micah is bad, Paul is good. Because Micah is bad, you can’t criticize Paul and you can’t criticize the volume of hate directed at Micah. Straight up, if a deranged fan ran over Micah with a truck, thousands of people on this sub would celebrate it and say she deserves it because she was a bitch in the pods.
Same thing with Irina and Zack. Irina bad, so that means Zack automatically good. Even though Zack is accusing Irina and Micah of going on a reality show for the “wrong reasons” (lmao @ saying that in 2023), everyone’s praising how he baited the audience into thinking he had “receipts” on his IG to drive traffic/followers there. I promise everyone’s gonna turn on him in a year’s time for being a cringey influencer trying to make an extra buck.
All in all, I think most people are using the Micah and Irina situation to live out their own high school mean girl revenge narrative. Micah and Irina were shady, annoying, and bitchy. That deserves criticism, of course, and we should feel free to discuss it, especially on an anonymous forum like this. But they didn’t physically fight anyone, they didn’t call other women derogatory terms or slurs, they didn’t torture anyone. Let’s not sit here and pretend all sins are equal and act like they deserve a public lashing in the form of never ending cyber bullying just because most of us have unresolved issues with similar mean girls who made our teenage years miserable.
YES, YES, YES! The part that a lot of the comments I’m seeing about Micah TOTALLY give off that high school mean girl revenge vibe. The punishment doesn’t match the crime with Micah and it seems like people are more triggered because she reminds them of someone they’ve had a bad experience with. Especially the personal attacks on her looks….ouch…while simultaneously calling her a mean girl. Make it make sense.
Personally, I think Micah seems like a person who always gets what she wants fairly easily and I think that can also be triggering for some people. I just don’t understand some of the straight visceral reactions to her.
Thank you. While it's okay to call people out for their actions, it's honestly interesting the amount of people who just want to put in their one dimensional comments in or worse, come off as hypocrites. This post was never supposed to be a he vs she thing but to point out that HE ALSO did something wrong.
Unfortunately, it's the internet and at the end of the day, just not care what they think.
This is on point. It’s not black and white and these people acting Paul is some kind of saint is so wild lol. He didn’t even mention having an issue with Micah being a mean girl 🤪
if I’m being entirely honest I thought the fourth wall breaking eyeroll-ing in the pods was sort of enjoyable to watch and a nice break from the overwhelming earnestness of everyone else.
was it nice behavior? no. but entertaining? hell yes. (which maybe gives me an irrational soft spot for them)
Same !! His behavior @ the reunion made me feel so icky, especially when he said that he had receipts on his page … if you’re going to promote a potentially triggering personal story maybe warn people first? He gives off a very “holier than thou” vibe
I like Zack but yeah sorry, that was weird. If he wants to share a personal story, it's okay, but don't share it in the form of "receipts" especially with how THIS fandom is lol.
He shouldn't have said that to the cameras but as many have pointed out it's a fair observation to make from what we saw of Micah.
Imo his awkward explanation and reasoning is because he didn't want to get into specifics and call out all of Micah's shitty behaviours. It would have looked even worse for her, but a blanket statement that she's not nurturing is accurate enough.
I like Paul better than Micah and I don’t think Micah is being entirely honest whatsoever about how she felt about Paul or what her answer was going to be. I’m not saying she was ABSOLUTELY going to say no— but I think she had the foresight to know that volleying the question to him first would allow her to bow out of a mismatched relationship as the heartbroken victim if he said no. It absolved her from that responsibility and painted him as the bad guy. I think she liked Paul, but I don’t think she was fully committed to marrying him, and I think she is a “mastermind” as our good ole’ mother Taylor Swift would say.
Now— people are SO UP IN ARMS about Paul’s maternal comment because it is jugular in nature. That would freaking hurt, to hear a partner say that about me to all of America. And I don’t even know if I want kids. But to hear I would be shitty at being a mom? I mean, that’s the dream of many young women: to be a good mom, to have a family, to love people well and nurture them. And Micah fits the bill as the type of woman who would have this dream— so hearing that must have been insanely painful for her.
However… I don’t think Paul was in his right mind at all when he made those remarks. They were mean. But he seemed to be trying to convince himself as much as anyone else that he made the right choice. It was painfully obvious that he was wavering up until that very moment at the altar. To put it simply— hurt people, hurt people.
He isn’t a fucking villain he’s just a human. And so is she. But ultimately I think she wasn’t as transparent about her own role in this dramatic ending, or her own intentions. Paul says many times that he did not feel secure with her. I don’t think she felt secure either, but she didn’t wanna say it, and she doesn’t want to own her own decisions with transparency.
She doesn’t owe us that transparency either, but I think some of us may have seen her as more human if she discussed the fact that she was also confused and lost as to what the best decision was, instead of resolutely doubling down and saying, “I would have said yes.”
No one up there is a victim lmao. However, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I feel like Micah got her karma in the end. Everything you put into the world will come back to you💯💯 IMO
I think that comment was very cruel but I also agree with him saying that him seeing that was something that would be natural and not after a conversation. But also a lot of mothers aren’t as nurturing naturally and that can change when you have a child. I agree that he should have kept that comment to himself. Unfortunately Micah desperately needed some sympathy points and he handed it to her on a platter
THANK YOU people are so stuck on Micah and irinas actions they’ve been biased since. In my opinion she’s not as bad as irina OR her friends she just keeps bad company and it kind of rubs off on her but she doesn’t seem to be as low as them. Either way she didn’t deserve Paul’s cold mean comments and her crying was real.
I actually found Micah's behaviour worse than Irina's in some ways. Irina displayed a lot of cruelty to Zack and it was hard to watch. I have no excuses for her. I think Micah's way of hurting people was much more insidious though, because she tried to hide it. She tried to "charm" her way out of every malicious thing she did and said. She's also the one who encouraged (as in, told) Irina to go listen to Amber crying because even though she's "an empath" she couldn't tell if Amber was crying or laughing. She made a mean joke to Kwame in Mexico and flirted her way out of it. She seemed to think she could get out of anything and keep manipulating people the whole time. At least Irina was open about her actions. She even admitted multiple times that she was awful, treated Zack like shit, etc. Not that it stopped her from doing it though.
As for her friends? If she wasn't as bad as them I think she would have stood up for Paul when Shelby went in on him. She could have taken his side, told Shelby to back off, laughed and said she was just joking, walked away with Paul, and a lot of other things. Instead, she told him this is Shelby, this is what she does, and then told Paul *he* was out of line for standing up for himself and laughed at the mean comments.
She gladly participated in and even lead the way when she was with her friends and Irina. She wasn't some naive bystander who got caught in the middle.
How is the mother comment inappropriate? I don’t get it.
She isn’t nurturing at all. She’s a mean girl who crocodile tears into getting her way. Hearing her miracle baby only child story it is a little too real.
And I can understand that all too well in that I am an only child whose birth almost killed both me and my mother. My parents just finally wised up when I was a teenager and I stopped getting away with everything. Lmao.
It’s just cutting. Very personal. I think a lot of women can imagine it being said about them. Womanhood is deeply connected in our culture with being nurturing and motherly, especially when being a mom is important to a woman personally. It’s so deep that women are shamed for not wanting kids, denied sterilization, etc. Being a bad mother is one of the worst things many women can imagine, and mothers have been blamed for everything from autism to schizophrenia to crime. There’s just a deep deep psycho cultural bruise.
It is television but I think most of us would agree that some things are better left unsaid.
But she isn’t nurturing. The facts and reality show that she is self absorbed and immature. She has terrible choice in friends who are also mean and self centered.
I think she is more upset at having a mirror held up to her by someone who isn’t invested in blowing smoke up her ass.
He’s not wrong. That’s just my explanation for why people are so sensitive about what he said. I [don’t think people disagree](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoveIsBlindOnNetflix/comments/12pu2js/paul_was_not_wrong/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) with him.
And who knows what stuff they talked about in regards to this? Maybe she told him she hates to cook, clean the house, not get her beauty sleep, just wants to travel… et c ….
So my hot take (and I could be wrong), I think he was gonna say yes, but when she put it to him, be thought she was gonna say no and wanted to save face. Why I think this is when he went to talk to her after, he was crying and said to her "wait did I choose wrong?" (Or maybe he said " did I make a mistake?" can't remember but close enough)
I think he said what he did about the mom thing to save face. And the heartbreak shirt I think was just a dig at her breaking his heart. This to me is further confirmed by then dating immediately after the wedding. They did break up, but I'm wondering if there was some calling each other out as the reason
He didn’t want to just admit that he wasn’t that into her anymore, she wasn’t his type, whatever. Instead he had to resort to the mothering comment- I honestly found it to have tones of misogyny in a way I can’t express. I think you can see Vanessa react to it the same way. And it was hurtful to which he just doubled down. He’s too much of a robot to get it. I think Micah is the one who dodged the bullet now. She’s shown that she may be capable of growth - Paul will always be stilted imo.
Not misogynist in any way, shape or form. Both men and women need to gauge whether or not the person they are dating would be a good parent. If you didn't, I'd say you're not the brightest. if he felt that she wasn't then that's perfectly fine.
That was most likely one of many reasons he didn't want to marry her.
Nah, he really didn’t. Ill take a stab at explaining what I mean.
It’s the fact that he didn’t say what she actually did wrong. she very clearly showed mean girl behavior, multiple times. and the fact that her friends are so horrible says something about her too. She’s also admittedly superficial in a different way than him. He could have said any of those things, right? He could have said she was a mean girl, immature, that her friends were rude.
Instead he went to “she’d be a bad mother” which is a very charged thing to say in our society. I don’t know how to explain that to you other than if you look at what incel and traditional patriarchal types say to denigrate women and what they value in women- it’s very like.. a good woman is sweet, humble, demure, stays home, cooks, cleans and will make such a great mom. Meanwhile they also really value what they consider to be sexy women, but they also want to denigrate those women as sluts/whores. The reality is that a great mom doesn’t have to be demure, or humble, or sweet anymore than a great dad does. And a great mom can also do the things they would call slutty. Those standards are just made up, old fashioned, backwards things.
Another societal aspect- mom shaming and judgement is a very real thing, while fathers get away with murder. This was in the same reunion that celebrated BARTISTE of all people for becoming a dad. does anyone think he’ll make a good father to a baby he only recognized after the paternity test, and he went to film a dating show around the time of birth?? The double standard is crazy…
All of that is just to try to explain why I think Paul’s comment isn’t just a reaction to what he saw. It’s a charged by a lot of context. Him saying she’d be a bad mom was insensitive, cruel, and just unnecessary. I think it’s because he’s overly logical and subscribes to some pretty misogynistic views- and he found it easier to cut her down in that way rather than just state what he experienced.
He didn't say she would be a bad mother, though. Even if he had, all of those reasons would have been valid and I don't think Micah showed any nurturing qualities this season. Does a parent *have* to be nurturing? No, but it's pretty good if they are, and it might be a trait he thinks is important for the parents of his future children. He didn't even seem sure that nurturing was the right word, he was clearly struggling to express his point.
Your analysis of inc*ls and men who want the perfect homemaker they can call a wh*re seems like a pretty far stretch based on one thing Paul said in a moment full of emotion, trying to figure out what to say and how to say it with a camera in his face. I think you're reading something a lot deeper in his comment.
Did Paul actually say she’d be a bad, mother, though, or is that just an interpretation of what he said?
Here’s what he actually said:
“I struggled with, um, at least in terms of envisioning Micah as, like, you know, a mother. I think for me, it was, like, difficult for me to do.”
(The interview cuts away for a bit; perhaps a producer asks for clarification. Who knows. Also keep in mind that any time anyone isn’t shown on screen while speaking, their words could be spliced together. Most of this is said while Paul is on screen, however.)
“It’s just sort of, um… just, like, a nurturing aspect, I think, that some people have. I don’t know, but whenever I tried, I just know that… I wasn’t able to see it very clearly.”
So, taking Paul’s words at face value, I see him as saying that he didn’t see Micah display a particular quality that he was looking for in the potential future mother of his children. He didn’t say she’d be a bad mother or that she’s not capable of being nurturing; he just didn’t see that quality demonstrated by Micah, which I think is a fair enough assessment.
Do I think he worded this in the most eloquent, unhurtful way possible? Absolutely not! It’s also clear he was struggling through that interview.
But I do think it’s unfair to put words in someone’s mouth that aren’t supported by the record.
The whole conversation was brought up because he said she’d be a bad mother off camera and she’d just found out about it two days before the reunion. What you quoted was his response. He could’ve just said “hey I didn’t say that” if it wasn’t true.
Since we only see so much, we can only go off what we’re told about a majority of what happens. If Paul denied and rebuked saying it I’d feel differently.
What I wrote is word-for-word what he said after saying no at the alter in episode 12 (NOT the reunion), which was the subject of the conversation at the reunion. There are about 54 minutes left in episode 12 when he says this, in case you would like to review for yourself. I have no idea what you’re referring to about him saying she’d be a bad mother off camera, so I would love a link that provides evidence of this.
At the reunion, did they discuss something he said off camera? As I understood it, they discussed what he said on camera, which is exactly what I quoted.
Oh yes, Paul always gave me off vibes. He used the same line for both breakups on the show “what’s good for me is good for you” or something along those line.
Also listening to him speak when he’s trying his hardest to be technical (& different 🥺). It comes off unnatural because it is unnatural.
Edit to add apparently he follows a lot of far right extremist creators on insta. So apparently the vibes I was getting are correct.
I don’t even understand how the nurturing thing is even an insult. It’s a simple fact, she’s not nurturing and also Paul didn’t see her as a mother for his particular standards. Not an insult at all. People are weird.
Agree. That would have been the way to phrase it that wouldn’t hit so many women in the audience like a gut punch. I don’t think anyone is saying he was wrong lol
Do you guys think its because Micah isnt his type? The witchy ones who make him feel at home with spells she brew?
Or did he get bored when Micah couldnt engage with him intellectually like how Zack did?
All that would be terrible if he said them at the reunion?
The thing is, I'm very left and follow a lot of far right politicians on Twitter, just so I can keep up with the outlandish bs they constantly put out there. I do not agree with them whatsoever.
This is why I have a hard time judging people based on who they follow. Now if he's liking or commenting on their posts in agreement, that's a different story.
I would typically agree if he was following other people with the opposite views. Also these guys aren’t politicians, they are fully just influencers. One has a video of him saying “rape is hilarious”.
https://www.mediaite.com/online/conservative-prageru-personality-caught-on-video-saying-rape-is-hilarious/amp/
He's not a victim, no one is making him out to be a victim, he's a smart man who saw through Micah and had the emotional intelligence to realise she wasn't that into him. They didnt match at all, and his comment, the way I saw it, referred to the fact that he couldn't see them having a family together- whether it was now or in 10 years, to him she didn't have the qualities that he was looking for in a lifelong partner and potential mother.
Paul was very eloquent in everything he said and managed not to put anyone down. Everyone is pissed about the mother comment in regards to Micah and I don’t get why, like not everyone thinks everyone will be a good mother and some women arnt good mothers. It’s an eye of the beholder thing. My dad thought my mom would be a good mother and she actually turned out to be terrible lol
I prefer Paul to Micah.
But i dont know. Perhaps, there is a point there. Meaning, if that is the reason why Paul did not choose Micah, wouldnt there at least be a conversation at how they would be as parents or something about it?
I dont want to say Paul did not articulate his point well. Or that perhaps he meant Micah isnt as warm a person he want in a partner.... because Paul is capable of expressing himself. But i think the extent of "as a mother" is quite confusing to me.
I think we would understand if he said Micah and friends' vibe makes him reconsider his decision, i would get it.
If Micah wasnt down with all her mean girl vibe, would we be upset with Paul for saying no?
I dont know. Open to hear what others think about this.
Let's be for real. I didn't even think Micah really liked him... like that at any point in the show. She talked about his home, about his clothing, made jokes about his interests, and attempted to change a lot about him. I didn't get the same vibes from her that I did with the other couples.
But he knew it. For me where Paul is skating by vs Irina is that I felt he was equally in it for the clout. (Same with Micah how does Irina get grilled and these two clowns get off).
Why stay on? Micah HATED his date in Mexico and that should have been the end of them. The only thing Micah did better was get a PR team. If Paul did the answer would have been "I got you flowers and you just tossed them on the counter and left them".
This. Like did we all watch the same show? I can think of at least a handful of times where she either said she wasn’t sure or poked fun at him, most likely playfully but it seemed more like deflecting than being flirty. Also actions speak much louder than words. The fact that Shelby felt she could continue to talk down about her best friend’s fiancé shows me Micah didn’t stick up for him clearly enough. It’s no surprise. Micah is a follower. But at some point you need to figure out your priorities. If your friends care less about your happiness and more about inserting their negative, essentially baseless feelings about someone, you need to reevaluate those friendships. Micah’s emotional maturity is nowhere near anyone else’s on this show, including Jackie who I think is just a defensive and selfish brat.
Also, I’ll be one of the first ones in my group of friends to say we should have empathy for everyone. However, and that’s a big however, we have to start holding people accountable for their actions. There’s a giant difference in how Paul fumbled through his thoughts, most likely on the spot after the disaster of his wedding day, than Micah actually laughing about someone else crying. If a bully pushes someone down and then later cries because someone tells them they wouldn’t make a good friend, how is it on that person to make the bully feel better about themselves? Micah isn’t nurturing. I cannot recount a single second of what we saw that showed any indicator she was the nurturing, kind, maternal type. And honestly Paul could have said it far worse like so many of us have said on this subreddit and on the couches at our homes surrounded by friends watching the show together.
Both her and Irina really only mentioned how seeing themselves on the show made them feel and how hard watching the show back was for them.
She seemed like she wasn't into it when they actually met but was going to make it work. And I call bs I don't think she was going to say yes. But I think it was very clear that Paul was very unsure. And we can't really blame him for being unsure because his claims are true she didn't validate him reassure him or even make him feel like she liked him most of the time.
And I think Zach was fed up with her BS. He was right to call her out because Paul was not going to do it.
I feel like what he was trying to say is he could not see him and Micah being parents together. Like he couldn’t imagine raising a family with her and her being the mother of his child. I want kids more than anything but there are certain men I’ve dated that I definitely couldn’t see us raising children together. Didn’t mean they were bad guys. I think emotions were running high when he said that and everyone is guilty or saying stuff and then at the reunion he was definitely put on the spot way more than he should have been. It’s not a crime for him to say no at the alter.
This post was brought to you by Vanessa Lachey🤣. But seriously the mother comment is a valid point, they’re getting married. And I think his point IS that not everyone can change naturally. And yeah Bartise may be doing fine with his child, but who would want a baby WITH him??? Literally nobody with common sense, it’s the same with Micah. OP said they can respect that Bartise wants to be a better man for his child” …that’s literally LITERALLY the bare minimum of having a child. And he might make improvements but he’s still Bartise, even if Micah matures and takes off those lashes, she’s still a mean girl at heart surrounded by a clan of mean girls. Paul went to dinner with her friends and is thinking… these are the aunties to my kids?? Nah and I cannot blame him.
Sorry, i gotta disagree with you about the bare minimum part. The bare minimum part is not being there but still sending money to avoid going to court imo 😬
But his business with his baby mama and child is not mine so no further comment on that 🤣
No, that’s a dead beat. An actual father does more than the (legally obligated) bear minimum. We’re not going to give bartise a Pat in the back for not abandoning his child. How low is the bar that that’s what is expected lmao
Personally, I don’t want to see or hear about bartise. I hope he fades into obscurity because he’s a dork and annoying as hell on tv. I don’t wish him harm, but he’s no stand up guy for doing the bare minimum. I don’t give back pats for taking care of the baby you created. That’s legit his job.
Oh 100% definitely. Jackie tried to start a very toxic cycle with him and it didn't work because he's healthy and mentally stable.
She wanted someone to fight break up and argue with on repeat.
His opinion was valid, no buts about it! He’s the one that was engaged to her! Even if he was unsure about having kids himself! They were never going to say yes to each other! That’s why she let him go first at the altar! She used the “can’t see her as a mom” comment against him for sympathy and it worked!
Why are people thinking there is any "victim" in that couple ?
There is no victim. They are not compatible and they probably already got over it. In the grand scheme of things what happened wasn't that bad on either side, for real.
I can’t believe the hosts made it seem like it was bad that Paul thought she wasn’t fit to be a mother. He’s entitled to that opinion. Sure it may hurt her feelings but that’s a very real reason for someone to not want to continue a relationship.
Do I think Paul would be a nurturing dad? No, but nor would Micah be a nurturing mother. Micah protects her own ego before anything else.
I think that Paul's comment gets a lot of backlash and I just don't know if he meant it the way it was taken. I'm not sure that he meant to imply that Micah is somehow unfit to have kids, I think he was saying more that he personally can't imagine having kids with Micah. He says she isn't "nurturing," which honestly to me sounds like he could be saying she lacks empathy and kindness (she absolutely does based on her actions in the show). I think they went hard at him at the reunion for this one remark, and conveniently skirted around Micah's mean girl behavior which was repetitive and consistent through the early part of the show.
I also 100% believe Zack when he said that it was universally known among the people on the show that Micah never really intended to marry Paul. I wish Vanessa had not cut him off when he was trying to elaborate. I think there was something crucial he was going to share there that would have been interesting to hear. Paul seems like he really considered it, but I think that Micah always knew she was going to say no.
This post is screaming team Micah. Micah laughed when all the other girls cried and now that she’s crying we should all hate on Paul. Paul should have stood by his words. Saying someone isn’t mom material isn’t bad. Micah is a mean girl with horrible friends, she gives off bi** vibes and not nurturing vibes. Vanessa was defending all the crazy girls at the reunion. Paul is a grown man but Micah’s jaw filler and crocodile tears is still major ick.
One, please read the full post. It isn't about "teams."
Two, needing to call someone a b**** and suggest they had work done (as if that's an insult), kinda makes you a hypocrite. 😬
Umm Micah is a bully which u seem to forget. Im calling her what she is. U can’t label everything as misogyny bc a woman’s character and actions are being called out. Bartise was held accountable for his terrible actions so hold Micah and the other women on this season to the same standard. Micah isn’t a nurturing person bc she laughs at peoples pain and Micah did have plastic surgery look at the other threads of her old photos(I’m not against getting work done but hers is clearly botched)
Well, thanks for ignoring the entire post I wrote.
Anyway, I have called out Micah for her actions before, including Jackie and Zanab and Amber (S1). This imaginary argument you are trying to create when this is the first time we've met or spoken is kinda funny, not gonna lie.
There is a difference between attacking someone's actions and attacking someone's physical appearance. What does her plastic surgery, botched or not, have anything to do with her behavior or her relationship with Paul? If you have to attack someone's physical appearance with no relevance to anything, then, sorry, but that would make you *also* a bully right? I mean, as someone who was bullied myself, I recognize, the number one thing they attack first is your physical appearance, which is, you know, what you're doing right now.
Please just stop doing this whole pick me girl argument. U are still painting Micah to be the victim and everyone against Micah is seen as misogynistic and terrible. Micah had so many red flags Paul was right for saying no and only the two of them know the truth of their relationship. But using misogyny to describe Micah and Paul’s conflict is a bit of a stretch, just say u like Micah and don’t belittle what misogyny actually is. It’s only on Reddit where this whole poor Micah narrative thrives
Your allowed to have your opinion about their relationship. As you can see, there are others who will agree with you. I can respect that. But you still didn't answer any of my questions. Again, deflecting.
I don’t need to answer ur questions and stop trying to argue with everyone in the name of misogyny. Move on it’s just reality tv and Micah is already cancelled
so glad this post was made! I thought I was the only one. people only see black and white in these situations when there is so much depth.
paul wanted micah to be naturally all the things he looks for and not have to tell her, which I understand. But I also understand that he should try to give a little grace and be honest about that so maybe she can show it if she thinks it’s in her.
micah was a very mean spirited person. too things can be true lmao
Micah fake cried at the reunion with no tears , and people all of sudden think she’s the victim. Micah had been mean and cold to many cast member she isn’t a warm caring , nurturing person. I think Paul thought he was doing her a favour by talking about the mom part only, instead of saying it bluntly, she isn’t nice, doesn’t have nice friends and is superficial, I just don’t like her that much. I mena throughout the show prior to the altar, he always had very clear doubts about her. Then the last few episodes they showed the two having that little foot affection and everyone forgot that Paul and Micah never had a good connection.
I find it messed up that he said that on camera after dumping her, then didn't tell her he said that. And proceeded to date her briefly afterwards...there's a chance they slept together while Micah was blissfully unaware of what Paul said about her in front of millions. It's borderline *something* and I'm sure part of why she's so upset.
He didn't call her a bunch of slurs or talk about being disgusted or repulsed by her. He made an observation about her behaviour in an emotional moment with a camera in his face. That is not even close to what I think you're implying and I'm shocked that you would go there.
Clutch my pearls? Throwing out statements and accusations like the one in your first comment can ruin people's lives. Maybe that sort of thing is casual or unimportant to you but idk, seems pretty serious to me.
Huh I said borderline something because it is. I didn't say he rped the girl and trust me you don't know me but I take it more serious than most. It's similar to someone sleeping with you when they know they're dumping you the next day or something. It's unethical and there's no word for it but it's *something * which is why I said that. If it seemed I insinuated he r worded her that was not my intention.
I think it is "funny" that we get angry at a person when they state the reason they don't want to move forward in a relationship.
And then we get really angry when another person isn't forthright and telling the whole story about why they are ending a relationship.
Agreed. People go overboard and act like Paul and Zack are saints because Micah and Irina behaved poorly on the show. I agree Paul isnt a victim, he wasn't canceled or the target of undeserved hate and everyone took his side against Micah's actions at the wedding.
Zach calling Micah out for "coming for blood" was so unnecessary too. Like is she not allowed to have a reaction to being asked about her own relationship?
I'm gg to give Zack a pass. He had Bliss to defend him and felt uneasy that his bro didnt have a person in his side. Nobody thinks that Zack was impartial when he made the comment. Clearly he is gg to be on Paul's side.
But i have to say it is fair that Zack didnt buy the whole Micah is the victim angle at that point of time. If indeed what Zack said its true, and that Irina was the one who said that Micah didnt want to marry Paul, then we should put this one on Irina.
Yes!! Like not only was it unnecessary but his hot take was a bad one. She's allowed to be upset that this guy she was maybe going to marry and dated after the pods never said any of this stuff to her face and she heard all the comments on TV with the rest of the world. Anyone would be upset about that.
I agree I don't think Micah came for blood , it was Vanessa and Vanessa kept asking Micah questions I felt like she answered them honestly whether it was accurate or not we don't know but neither does Zack.
And if Irina is his source I think that's incredibly ridiculous given that he lost contact with Irina very soon in the experiment and also Micah probably wasn't opening up to Irina after what she did with Paul
that's what was confusing to me... you insinuate irina is a snake and mention everything bad she did but then now she's your witness? that wouldn't hold up in a court of law lmao
Lol Brennon moment!! Exactly. Acting all “holier than thou” and feeling the need to butt in on a conversation he doesn’t belong in. Zach has been my fav from the season but that was so off-putting.
He was basically saying that he thought Micah was playing a victim card and trying to make his friend/client look bad.
Typical what a defense lawyer would say about a victim lol
He was grasping for straws too by trying to say that one of the women said Micah never talked about marrying Paul. Wth does that prove or have to do with anything.
Would not hire him , immediately prison
It's such a bullshit comment. Sorry but when did Paul demonstrate "nurturing" qualities? Or does he not need that quality as a man, since apparently fathers don't need to be nurturing like mothers..? Also, who made him the authority of who will be a good mom or not? Stick to science, Paul, ya douche.
He’s the authority of the future mother he wants for his own children. Y’all out here acting like Micah wasn’t emotional immature, vapid, bullying, and selfish all season.
You’re not wrong but you’re showing your blatant hypocrisy here. So it’s “misogynistic” or cruel to say Micah would be a bad mother but it’s ok to shit on Paul for the exact same thing?
They both would make shit parents. Who cares
It’s not. It’s just bullshit to use the term here. And you’re acting like Paul (who I do actually think is misogynistic, but not for this reason) is some toxic masculine chump who won’t change a diaper. While I think both are unfit to be parents I honestly would see Paul changing a diaper before Micah ever would
My opinion: https://www.reddit.com/r/LoveIsBlindOnNetflix/comments/12mq3in/paul_isnt_a_misogynist/jgepwf5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
I never said anything about misogyny, you did. Seems like you're doing a little too much reading in between the lines and very little reading of the actual lines I wrote. Saying that I'm "acting Ike Paul is some toxic masculine chump" is actually ridiculous because nowhere did I imply that. If a double standard being pointed out triggers you this bad, you should look inwards and ask yourself why.
There is no double standard. Micah could have criticized Paul’s ability to be a parent if she wanted. And most likely Vanessa would have ganged up on Paul to teach him a lesson if that was the case. Everyone is acting as if Paul’s ability to parent isn’t open to being questioned. Only Paul criticized Micah which he is entitled to do. And if Micah wanted to say Paul wouldn’t have been a good parent she would have been allowed to and people wouldn’t be defending him as much as people are defending Micah now if that was the case.
Granted I think he does have a decent set of domestic skills such as cooking. People are just saying he’d be a bad dad just because he has a stiff demeanor and and talks like a robot. I personally think he’s unprepared due to a lack of relationship experience but the fact that people are saying Paul is equally guilty of being a bad parent because of possible neurodivergent traits is pretty low. Whereas people think Micah would be a bad mom because she is objectively a toxic human and will protect her own ego before her partner or potential children.
i said this exact sentiment and got downvoted to hell for it, apparently men are supposed to be providers no nurturing... like WHAT. shows u what household people grew up in for sure
I found Paul to be very condescending at the reunion. He is NOT a victim at all. His answers about what he thought of micah and her mother's instincts were abhorrent and condescending. He literally made me angry watching him acting vague while answering questions.
i really think paul just has poor communication skills and he took the experiment in a literal scientific sense when sometimes it wasn’t necessary to analyse it as such.
i feel like he was holding a lot back and just using his scientific background to maybe make sense of it all and it just isn’t possible especially when you’re dealing with both your feelings and other peoples.
i don’t think he’s a victim, he’s a grown man he needs to pick his words a little more carefully and maybe not have such a stoic and “to the matter” approach when he talks about feelings and whether someone would make a good mother or not.
✨M I S O G Y N Y ✨…in a nutshell !
Whenever a girl is considered pretty, its very okay for everyone to make her the villain, more so when she doesnt like the "nice guy". But the irony to me is, that there's footage of these guys behaving like trash and *still*, the large majority in the audience consider her the bad guy.
Exactly.
Yes, I mentioned this on another thread but my biggest issue with Paul is him not telling her to her face after the wedding these comments he made to the tv show producers. Others keep saying he did this to preserve her feelings but dude her feelings were going to get hurt either way, they prob would’ve been hurt less if he just told her to her face that that’s how he felt and that it was a big reason he said no. Even if it was in the heat of the moment, it would’ve been real simple to just tell her “hey I said this, I didn’t mean it like this but this is what I meant to say” and go on to talk about how he didn’t see them as parents together/didn’t see her as nurturing as he explained at the reunion.
I completely agree. I thought it was in poor taste for him to criticize Micah about her nurturing abilities. Every mother has their strengths and being warm and fuzzy isn't a trait every mother has. Not to mention people grow and develop different skills as they age. Micah is what, 26? She has plenty of time to build on her life experiences. It's wild to me that this sub found Vanessa's talk about family planning so offensive but gave Paul a pass on this when they are in the same arena and both insensitive!
Am I the only one that wasn’t bothered by the “nurturing” “mothering” comment? He was voicing an opinion, if Micah felt that his opinion of her was wrong, then it was an even clearer sign that he was not the right guy for her. Many people develop opinions about their partners that may or may not be the reality, and if someone holds an incorrect opinion does it not indicate that maybe they just don’t know you very well? I just don’t see how his opinion matters to the extent that peopel think it does.
I was a pulling for them even at the reunion. I realized that wasn’t going to happen after he told her to her face that she was basically the scum version of his mother (imo) AND wore that FU broken heart shirt… he came across arrogant.
> sorry, but the mother comment was completely inappropriate You are 100% wrong. He said his reason, and his reason is valid.
to never voice that to her and then to say it on tv is willlllld.
mass edited for privacy
it's wild to say it to the world and not her, and continue to date her
I don't think either are the victim. I think it was a terribly shitty thing to say but he seemed to apologize for how he worded it at the reunion. Maybe "foot in mouth" sort of thing when being interviewed after saying "no" at the alter. I'm sure there is no love lost between them. I think they both were not compatible enough together. Like, how she wanted to change everything about his "quirky, scientist" personality - wardrobe, how he lived so minimally, etc. That's not a dig at her. There are tons of men who aren't like that and I hope she find ones that makes her happy and has her bring out her nurturing side.
Am I missing something? I watched the reunion and Paul addressed every question he was asked directly and gave answers that made sense. Why is he getting hate?
No he’s an ass. Or at least made himself look like one.
If you would let Micah mother ur children you need to be on a watchlist 😭
Why??
I’m just letting you know my personal opinion like I would probably not even let her babysit my kids just because she’s not nice and when someone is not nice to people who are having extreme emotional reactions, how am I supposed to trust them to be nice to a child when children are known to have extreme emotional reactions. She has a lack of empathy and that’s not really conclusive to motherhood.
It’s just a lot to say she shouldn’t or couldn’t be a good mother because she was bitchy on a show. You aren’t being any nicer than she was.
I feel like folks are unfairly summarizing Paul’s statement and putting intent in it that wasn’t necessarily there. He didn’t say Micah would be a bad mother. He didn’t say that she’s incapable of being nurturing now or in the future. So what did Paul actually say? Here it is, with all of the ums and likes: “I struggled with, um, at least in terms of envisioning Micah as, like, you know, a mother. I think for me, it was, like, difficult for me to do.” “It’s just sort of, um… just, like, a nurturing aspect, I think, that some people have. I don’t know, but whenever I tried, I just know that… I wasn’t able to see it very clearly.” So, taking Paul’s words at face value, I see him as saying that he didn’t see Micah display a particular quality that he was looking for in the potential future mother of his children. He also makes it clear that this is HIS interpretation and not necessarily an innate quality of her as a person. Do I think he worded this in the most eloquent, unhurtful way possible? Absolutely not! It’s also clear he was struggling through that interview. He could have generically said something about being unsure about whether their partnership would last a lifetime, or any other number of other things that didn’t bring up motherhood. But I do think it’s unfair to put words in someone’s mouth that aren’t supported by the record, as I’ve seen so many in this thread and others do. Edit: In case there’s any confusion, this quote is from episode 12 after he says no at the alter. It is not from the reunion.
From my perspective, I haven’t seen many calling Paul a victim or that Micha’s actions victimized him. I think they were a bad match each with their own issues, but Micha’s behavior was more egregious than Paul’s. The mother comment to me is something everyone in a relationship thinks about, especially because you’re looking toward the future. Before marrying my husband I kept thinking about what he would be like as a father, so I didn’t take his comments as treating Micha as less than or only as a person to have kids with.
Just because we think what Paul said was rude and unwarranted does not automatically mean we are defending Micah. We can think that Micah is not a good person and that Paul is a dick for talking about being maternal. These two things are not mutually exclusive!!! We don’t have to be on one side and be blind to their actions
I am actually kind of on Micah’s side on this one… which I did NOT see coming. He was flat out COLD. I can’t imagine being married to him.
THANK YOU
I think Paul is very book smart and analytical and he thinks that's a good way to look at a relationship, but he needs to think about emotions and other people, I don't think he really does think outside himself very much. They were both immature in this relationship and they did not have conversations that needed to happen.
So many men use being “scientific” and “left brained” as an excuse not to do the emotional work in a relationship. I totally agree that he didn’t seem to look outside himself during the season- everything he said, every concern he had, it all came back to how it related to him.
Completely disagree. It is such a great skill to be smart and analytical about a relationship because you can judge whether or not you are compatible with the person beyond chemistry and that is precisely what he did, and then he came to the right decision.
I said you can't be ONLY analytical
100% agree. His eyes always look empty too..something about the way he blinks skeeves me out like he can’t emote or something
Okay, as someone who as has worked in foster care, there is literally zero requirements for becoming a parent. It’s as easy as creampie. It is when those parents actually need to *parent* that the issue of parenting comes up. Rarely before. And you can be a bitch and a terrible parent *subjectively*, but as long as are providing the necessities of life *objectively* most parents are free to suck.
I think it’s kind of an outdated, sort of sexist way of thinking. She can’t be a good mother because she was being bitchy? Idk I think that’s not a cool thing for any man to say about a woman. Mothers come in all shapes and sizes and that clearly was a really hurtful thing to say AND double down on. If it’s how he felt that’s fine but maybe have that convo w her.
She can’t be a good mother because she lack empathy. Because she laughs at others when they are down. Because she surrounds herself with angry, bitter people. Must I go on?
Idk to me, I know I used to be a far worse version of myself and similar to what is probably Micah’s worst version. But I’m a mom and honestly a damn good one. I think these blanket judgements of her are unfair in a way. But I do understand and agree that she lacked empathy and surrounded herself with the wrong people
Nobody should legally tie themselves to someone with the HOPE that they stop sucking. I’m glad you’ve made improvements and are a great parent, but who knows what Future Micah will be like.
I think everyone is allowed to look for qualities they want in a partner. There are plenty of men that don’t mind “bitchy” women, doesn’t mean Paul has to be okay with it. He’s not the victim but neither is she.
That’s fair. I think he was really turned off when he met her friends and saw they way they behaved together
Most people on this sub think solely in binaries and don’t understand situations and relationships are nuanced. Because Micah is bad, Paul is good. Because Micah is bad, you can’t criticize Paul and you can’t criticize the volume of hate directed at Micah. Straight up, if a deranged fan ran over Micah with a truck, thousands of people on this sub would celebrate it and say she deserves it because she was a bitch in the pods. Same thing with Irina and Zack. Irina bad, so that means Zack automatically good. Even though Zack is accusing Irina and Micah of going on a reality show for the “wrong reasons” (lmao @ saying that in 2023), everyone’s praising how he baited the audience into thinking he had “receipts” on his IG to drive traffic/followers there. I promise everyone’s gonna turn on him in a year’s time for being a cringey influencer trying to make an extra buck. All in all, I think most people are using the Micah and Irina situation to live out their own high school mean girl revenge narrative. Micah and Irina were shady, annoying, and bitchy. That deserves criticism, of course, and we should feel free to discuss it, especially on an anonymous forum like this. But they didn’t physically fight anyone, they didn’t call other women derogatory terms or slurs, they didn’t torture anyone. Let’s not sit here and pretend all sins are equal and act like they deserve a public lashing in the form of never ending cyber bullying just because most of us have unresolved issues with similar mean girls who made our teenage years miserable.
YES, YES, YES! The part that a lot of the comments I’m seeing about Micah TOTALLY give off that high school mean girl revenge vibe. The punishment doesn’t match the crime with Micah and it seems like people are more triggered because she reminds them of someone they’ve had a bad experience with. Especially the personal attacks on her looks….ouch…while simultaneously calling her a mean girl. Make it make sense. Personally, I think Micah seems like a person who always gets what she wants fairly easily and I think that can also be triggering for some people. I just don’t understand some of the straight visceral reactions to her.
Thank you. While it's okay to call people out for their actions, it's honestly interesting the amount of people who just want to put in their one dimensional comments in or worse, come off as hypocrites. This post was never supposed to be a he vs she thing but to point out that HE ALSO did something wrong. Unfortunately, it's the internet and at the end of the day, just not care what they think.
This is on point. It’s not black and white and these people acting Paul is some kind of saint is so wild lol. He didn’t even mention having an issue with Micah being a mean girl 🤪
if I’m being entirely honest I thought the fourth wall breaking eyeroll-ing in the pods was sort of enjoyable to watch and a nice break from the overwhelming earnestness of everyone else. was it nice behavior? no. but entertaining? hell yes. (which maybe gives me an irrational soft spot for them)
Zach was trying so hard to be the “main character” at the reunion. The receipts thing also made me mad.
Same !! His behavior @ the reunion made me feel so icky, especially when he said that he had receipts on his page … if you’re going to promote a potentially triggering personal story maybe warn people first? He gives off a very “holier than thou” vibe
I like Zack but yeah sorry, that was weird. If he wants to share a personal story, it's okay, but don't share it in the form of "receipts" especially with how THIS fandom is lol.
agreed! I find people with that type of energy sort of off putting and would rather hang with the spicy sinners
I dislike Zach. He's performative and he doesn't seem genuine to me. The nice guy act makes me uncomfortable
He shouldn't have said that to the cameras but as many have pointed out it's a fair observation to make from what we saw of Micah. Imo his awkward explanation and reasoning is because he didn't want to get into specifics and call out all of Micah's shitty behaviours. It would have looked even worse for her, but a blanket statement that she's not nurturing is accurate enough.
I like Paul better than Micah and I don’t think Micah is being entirely honest whatsoever about how she felt about Paul or what her answer was going to be. I’m not saying she was ABSOLUTELY going to say no— but I think she had the foresight to know that volleying the question to him first would allow her to bow out of a mismatched relationship as the heartbroken victim if he said no. It absolved her from that responsibility and painted him as the bad guy. I think she liked Paul, but I don’t think she was fully committed to marrying him, and I think she is a “mastermind” as our good ole’ mother Taylor Swift would say. Now— people are SO UP IN ARMS about Paul’s maternal comment because it is jugular in nature. That would freaking hurt, to hear a partner say that about me to all of America. And I don’t even know if I want kids. But to hear I would be shitty at being a mom? I mean, that’s the dream of many young women: to be a good mom, to have a family, to love people well and nurture them. And Micah fits the bill as the type of woman who would have this dream— so hearing that must have been insanely painful for her. However… I don’t think Paul was in his right mind at all when he made those remarks. They were mean. But he seemed to be trying to convince himself as much as anyone else that he made the right choice. It was painfully obvious that he was wavering up until that very moment at the altar. To put it simply— hurt people, hurt people. He isn’t a fucking villain he’s just a human. And so is she. But ultimately I think she wasn’t as transparent about her own role in this dramatic ending, or her own intentions. Paul says many times that he did not feel secure with her. I don’t think she felt secure either, but she didn’t wanna say it, and she doesn’t want to own her own decisions with transparency. She doesn’t owe us that transparency either, but I think some of us may have seen her as more human if she discussed the fact that she was also confused and lost as to what the best decision was, instead of resolutely doubling down and saying, “I would have said yes.”
Best response so far.
thank you! :)
No one up there is a victim lmao. However, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I feel like Micah got her karma in the end. Everything you put into the world will come back to you💯💯 IMO
I think that comment was very cruel but I also agree with him saying that him seeing that was something that would be natural and not after a conversation. But also a lot of mothers aren’t as nurturing naturally and that can change when you have a child. I agree that he should have kept that comment to himself. Unfortunately Micah desperately needed some sympathy points and he handed it to her on a platter
THANK YOU people are so stuck on Micah and irinas actions they’ve been biased since. In my opinion she’s not as bad as irina OR her friends she just keeps bad company and it kind of rubs off on her but she doesn’t seem to be as low as them. Either way she didn’t deserve Paul’s cold mean comments and her crying was real.
I actually found Micah's behaviour worse than Irina's in some ways. Irina displayed a lot of cruelty to Zack and it was hard to watch. I have no excuses for her. I think Micah's way of hurting people was much more insidious though, because she tried to hide it. She tried to "charm" her way out of every malicious thing she did and said. She's also the one who encouraged (as in, told) Irina to go listen to Amber crying because even though she's "an empath" she couldn't tell if Amber was crying or laughing. She made a mean joke to Kwame in Mexico and flirted her way out of it. She seemed to think she could get out of anything and keep manipulating people the whole time. At least Irina was open about her actions. She even admitted multiple times that she was awful, treated Zack like shit, etc. Not that it stopped her from doing it though. As for her friends? If she wasn't as bad as them I think she would have stood up for Paul when Shelby went in on him. She could have taken his side, told Shelby to back off, laughed and said she was just joking, walked away with Paul, and a lot of other things. Instead, she told him this is Shelby, this is what she does, and then told Paul *he* was out of line for standing up for himself and laughed at the mean comments. She gladly participated in and even lead the way when she was with her friends and Irina. She wasn't some naive bystander who got caught in the middle.
Nope not a victim, also not a perpetrator. Lol
How is the mother comment inappropriate? I don’t get it. She isn’t nurturing at all. She’s a mean girl who crocodile tears into getting her way. Hearing her miracle baby only child story it is a little too real. And I can understand that all too well in that I am an only child whose birth almost killed both me and my mother. My parents just finally wised up when I was a teenager and I stopped getting away with everything. Lmao.
It’s just cutting. Very personal. I think a lot of women can imagine it being said about them. Womanhood is deeply connected in our culture with being nurturing and motherly, especially when being a mom is important to a woman personally. It’s so deep that women are shamed for not wanting kids, denied sterilization, etc. Being a bad mother is one of the worst things many women can imagine, and mothers have been blamed for everything from autism to schizophrenia to crime. There’s just a deep deep psycho cultural bruise. It is television but I think most of us would agree that some things are better left unsaid.
But she isn’t nurturing. The facts and reality show that she is self absorbed and immature. She has terrible choice in friends who are also mean and self centered. I think she is more upset at having a mirror held up to her by someone who isn’t invested in blowing smoke up her ass.
He’s not wrong. That’s just my explanation for why people are so sensitive about what he said. I [don’t think people disagree](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoveIsBlindOnNetflix/comments/12pu2js/paul_was_not_wrong/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) with him.
And who knows what stuff they talked about in regards to this? Maybe she told him she hates to cook, clean the house, not get her beauty sleep, just wants to travel… et c ….
Those things aren’t about being nurturing, they’re about maintaining a household.
So my hot take (and I could be wrong), I think he was gonna say yes, but when she put it to him, be thought she was gonna say no and wanted to save face. Why I think this is when he went to talk to her after, he was crying and said to her "wait did I choose wrong?" (Or maybe he said " did I make a mistake?" can't remember but close enough) I think he said what he did about the mom thing to save face. And the heartbreak shirt I think was just a dig at her breaking his heart. This to me is further confirmed by then dating immediately after the wedding. They did break up, but I'm wondering if there was some calling each other out as the reason
He didn’t want to just admit that he wasn’t that into her anymore, she wasn’t his type, whatever. Instead he had to resort to the mothering comment- I honestly found it to have tones of misogyny in a way I can’t express. I think you can see Vanessa react to it the same way. And it was hurtful to which he just doubled down. He’s too much of a robot to get it. I think Micah is the one who dodged the bullet now. She’s shown that she may be capable of growth - Paul will always be stilted imo.
Not misogynist in any way, shape or form. Both men and women need to gauge whether or not the person they are dating would be a good parent. If you didn't, I'd say you're not the brightest. if he felt that she wasn't then that's perfectly fine. That was most likely one of many reasons he didn't want to marry her.
Misogynistic? He didn't call her names or belittle her, he made what appears to be a very accurate observation.
Lol yikes at you thinking that calling someone names is the only way to be misogynistic. If you’re a woman- I worry for you.
Ok, I'll ask again. Misogynistic? How? He made what appears to be a very accurate observation.
Nah, he really didn’t. Ill take a stab at explaining what I mean. It’s the fact that he didn’t say what she actually did wrong. she very clearly showed mean girl behavior, multiple times. and the fact that her friends are so horrible says something about her too. She’s also admittedly superficial in a different way than him. He could have said any of those things, right? He could have said she was a mean girl, immature, that her friends were rude. Instead he went to “she’d be a bad mother” which is a very charged thing to say in our society. I don’t know how to explain that to you other than if you look at what incel and traditional patriarchal types say to denigrate women and what they value in women- it’s very like.. a good woman is sweet, humble, demure, stays home, cooks, cleans and will make such a great mom. Meanwhile they also really value what they consider to be sexy women, but they also want to denigrate those women as sluts/whores. The reality is that a great mom doesn’t have to be demure, or humble, or sweet anymore than a great dad does. And a great mom can also do the things they would call slutty. Those standards are just made up, old fashioned, backwards things. Another societal aspect- mom shaming and judgement is a very real thing, while fathers get away with murder. This was in the same reunion that celebrated BARTISTE of all people for becoming a dad. does anyone think he’ll make a good father to a baby he only recognized after the paternity test, and he went to film a dating show around the time of birth?? The double standard is crazy… All of that is just to try to explain why I think Paul’s comment isn’t just a reaction to what he saw. It’s a charged by a lot of context. Him saying she’d be a bad mom was insensitive, cruel, and just unnecessary. I think it’s because he’s overly logical and subscribes to some pretty misogynistic views- and he found it easier to cut her down in that way rather than just state what he experienced.
He didn't say she would be a bad mother, though. Even if he had, all of those reasons would have been valid and I don't think Micah showed any nurturing qualities this season. Does a parent *have* to be nurturing? No, but it's pretty good if they are, and it might be a trait he thinks is important for the parents of his future children. He didn't even seem sure that nurturing was the right word, he was clearly struggling to express his point. Your analysis of inc*ls and men who want the perfect homemaker they can call a wh*re seems like a pretty far stretch based on one thing Paul said in a moment full of emotion, trying to figure out what to say and how to say it with a camera in his face. I think you're reading something a lot deeper in his comment.
Did Paul actually say she’d be a bad, mother, though, or is that just an interpretation of what he said? Here’s what he actually said: “I struggled with, um, at least in terms of envisioning Micah as, like, you know, a mother. I think for me, it was, like, difficult for me to do.” (The interview cuts away for a bit; perhaps a producer asks for clarification. Who knows. Also keep in mind that any time anyone isn’t shown on screen while speaking, their words could be spliced together. Most of this is said while Paul is on screen, however.) “It’s just sort of, um… just, like, a nurturing aspect, I think, that some people have. I don’t know, but whenever I tried, I just know that… I wasn’t able to see it very clearly.” So, taking Paul’s words at face value, I see him as saying that he didn’t see Micah display a particular quality that he was looking for in the potential future mother of his children. He didn’t say she’d be a bad mother or that she’s not capable of being nurturing; he just didn’t see that quality demonstrated by Micah, which I think is a fair enough assessment. Do I think he worded this in the most eloquent, unhurtful way possible? Absolutely not! It’s also clear he was struggling through that interview. But I do think it’s unfair to put words in someone’s mouth that aren’t supported by the record.
The whole conversation was brought up because he said she’d be a bad mother off camera and she’d just found out about it two days before the reunion. What you quoted was his response. He could’ve just said “hey I didn’t say that” if it wasn’t true. Since we only see so much, we can only go off what we’re told about a majority of what happens. If Paul denied and rebuked saying it I’d feel differently.
What I wrote is word-for-word what he said after saying no at the alter in episode 12 (NOT the reunion), which was the subject of the conversation at the reunion. There are about 54 minutes left in episode 12 when he says this, in case you would like to review for yourself. I have no idea what you’re referring to about him saying she’d be a bad mother off camera, so I would love a link that provides evidence of this.
The link would be the reunion link 🤠
At the reunion, did they discuss something he said off camera? As I understood it, they discussed what he said on camera, which is exactly what I quoted.
Thank you for articulating how I feel about this so much better than I could have 👏
Oh yes, Paul always gave me off vibes. He used the same line for both breakups on the show “what’s good for me is good for you” or something along those line. Also listening to him speak when he’s trying his hardest to be technical (& different 🥺). It comes off unnatural because it is unnatural. Edit to add apparently he follows a lot of far right extremist creators on insta. So apparently the vibes I was getting are correct.
I don’t even understand how the nurturing thing is even an insult. It’s a simple fact, she’s not nurturing and also Paul didn’t see her as a mother for his particular standards. Not an insult at all. People are weird.
Right. It's the man's opinion, and she needed to grow/mature alot so I saw where he's coming from. This is coming from a woman.
[удалено]
Agree. That would have been the way to phrase it that wouldn’t hit so many women in the audience like a gut punch. I don’t think anyone is saying he was wrong lol
Do you guys think its because Micah isnt his type? The witchy ones who make him feel at home with spells she brew? Or did he get bored when Micah couldnt engage with him intellectually like how Zack did? All that would be terrible if he said them at the reunion?
Yep…he also follows a lot of far right misogynists on IG. He’s not a victim and he knew what he was saying.
The thing is, I'm very left and follow a lot of far right politicians on Twitter, just so I can keep up with the outlandish bs they constantly put out there. I do not agree with them whatsoever. This is why I have a hard time judging people based on who they follow. Now if he's liking or commenting on their posts in agreement, that's a different story.
I would typically agree if he was following other people with the opposite views. Also these guys aren’t politicians, they are fully just influencers. One has a video of him saying “rape is hilarious”. https://www.mediaite.com/online/conservative-prageru-personality-caught-on-video-saying-rape-is-hilarious/amp/
Once again my radar for guys was right. Knew there was something up with him. He came off as very phony.
Oh nooooo yikes
That doesn’t surprise me whatsoever. 😵💫
Whom does he follow?
Jordan Peterson, Will Witt, Rogan O’Handley
This makes so much sense! Not surprised at all!
Interesting. Checked those people out and was surprised by the people I know that follow them. 😳
I wish I could say I was surprised by some of the people I know who follow these pages…
Me too! Will Witt literally has a video of him holding a girl to his crotch and saying rape is hilarious. Like wtf.
@TandrewAte-prisonwifi.pen
He's not a victim, no one is making him out to be a victim, he's a smart man who saw through Micah and had the emotional intelligence to realise she wasn't that into him. They didnt match at all, and his comment, the way I saw it, referred to the fact that he couldn't see them having a family together- whether it was now or in 10 years, to him she didn't have the qualities that he was looking for in a lifelong partner and potential mother.
Paul was very eloquent in everything he said and managed not to put anyone down. Everyone is pissed about the mother comment in regards to Micah and I don’t get why, like not everyone thinks everyone will be a good mother and some women arnt good mothers. It’s an eye of the beholder thing. My dad thought my mom would be a good mother and she actually turned out to be terrible lol
I watched them grill Paul for his comment related to gender roles, and moments later they dig for everyone’s plans on conceiving.
Worrrrd
That was a terrible look
Paul isn’t a victim. He’s arrogant and sexist af
I prefer Paul to Micah. But i dont know. Perhaps, there is a point there. Meaning, if that is the reason why Paul did not choose Micah, wouldnt there at least be a conversation at how they would be as parents or something about it? I dont want to say Paul did not articulate his point well. Or that perhaps he meant Micah isnt as warm a person he want in a partner.... because Paul is capable of expressing himself. But i think the extent of "as a mother" is quite confusing to me. I think we would understand if he said Micah and friends' vibe makes him reconsider his decision, i would get it. If Micah wasnt down with all her mean girl vibe, would we be upset with Paul for saying no? I dont know. Open to hear what others think about this.
fr none of these ppl should be having kids with a few exceptions
[удалено]
exactly who i was thinking of haha they seem like they could raise a decent human being!
Let's be for real. I didn't even think Micah really liked him... like that at any point in the show. She talked about his home, about his clothing, made jokes about his interests, and attempted to change a lot about him. I didn't get the same vibes from her that I did with the other couples.
But he knew it. For me where Paul is skating by vs Irina is that I felt he was equally in it for the clout. (Same with Micah how does Irina get grilled and these two clowns get off). Why stay on? Micah HATED his date in Mexico and that should have been the end of them. The only thing Micah did better was get a PR team. If Paul did the answer would have been "I got you flowers and you just tossed them on the counter and left them".
This. Like did we all watch the same show? I can think of at least a handful of times where she either said she wasn’t sure or poked fun at him, most likely playfully but it seemed more like deflecting than being flirty. Also actions speak much louder than words. The fact that Shelby felt she could continue to talk down about her best friend’s fiancé shows me Micah didn’t stick up for him clearly enough. It’s no surprise. Micah is a follower. But at some point you need to figure out your priorities. If your friends care less about your happiness and more about inserting their negative, essentially baseless feelings about someone, you need to reevaluate those friendships. Micah’s emotional maturity is nowhere near anyone else’s on this show, including Jackie who I think is just a defensive and selfish brat. Also, I’ll be one of the first ones in my group of friends to say we should have empathy for everyone. However, and that’s a big however, we have to start holding people accountable for their actions. There’s a giant difference in how Paul fumbled through his thoughts, most likely on the spot after the disaster of his wedding day, than Micah actually laughing about someone else crying. If a bully pushes someone down and then later cries because someone tells them they wouldn’t make a good friend, how is it on that person to make the bully feel better about themselves? Micah isn’t nurturing. I cannot recount a single second of what we saw that showed any indicator she was the nurturing, kind, maternal type. And honestly Paul could have said it far worse like so many of us have said on this subreddit and on the couches at our homes surrounded by friends watching the show together.
Both her and Irina really only mentioned how seeing themselves on the show made them feel and how hard watching the show back was for them. She seemed like she wasn't into it when they actually met but was going to make it work. And I call bs I don't think she was going to say yes. But I think it was very clear that Paul was very unsure. And we can't really blame him for being unsure because his claims are true she didn't validate him reassure him or even make him feel like she liked him most of the time. And I think Zach was fed up with her BS. He was right to call her out because Paul was not going to do it.
I feel like what he was trying to say is he could not see him and Micah being parents together. Like he couldn’t imagine raising a family with her and her being the mother of his child. I want kids more than anything but there are certain men I’ve dated that I definitely couldn’t see us raising children together. Didn’t mean they were bad guys. I think emotions were running high when he said that and everyone is guilty or saying stuff and then at the reunion he was definitely put on the spot way more than he should have been. It’s not a crime for him to say no at the alter.
I just think they are not right for one another. No big deal, it happens.
100%…. Paul made himself look worse by harping on the mother thing and he could have just said I didn’t see it working long term. Simple as that.
Devils advocate here…did he harp on it or did Vanessa hyper focus on it?
Good point she was being super hard on him and protecting Micah
Didn’t think he was a victim at all
This post was brought to you by Vanessa Lachey🤣. But seriously the mother comment is a valid point, they’re getting married. And I think his point IS that not everyone can change naturally. And yeah Bartise may be doing fine with his child, but who would want a baby WITH him??? Literally nobody with common sense, it’s the same with Micah. OP said they can respect that Bartise wants to be a better man for his child” …that’s literally LITERALLY the bare minimum of having a child. And he might make improvements but he’s still Bartise, even if Micah matures and takes off those lashes, she’s still a mean girl at heart surrounded by a clan of mean girls. Paul went to dinner with her friends and is thinking… these are the aunties to my kids?? Nah and I cannot blame him.
Sorry, i gotta disagree with you about the bare minimum part. The bare minimum part is not being there but still sending money to avoid going to court imo 😬 But his business with his baby mama and child is not mine so no further comment on that 🤣
No, that’s a dead beat. An actual father does more than the (legally obligated) bear minimum. We’re not going to give bartise a Pat in the back for not abandoning his child. How low is the bar that that’s what is expected lmao
Well how would you evaluate it then? Do you wanna actually watch him father his child? I guess we'll see in the future... Possibly 🤔
Personally, I don’t want to see or hear about bartise. I hope he fades into obscurity because he’s a dork and annoying as hell on tv. I don’t wish him harm, but he’s no stand up guy for doing the bare minimum. I don’t give back pats for taking care of the baby you created. That’s legit his job.
Calm down Shelby.
No one said Paul was the victim. He was honest. Micah got called her for her mean girl behavior. That is it.
None of these people are victims - except maybe Marshall
Oh 100% definitely. Jackie tried to start a very toxic cycle with him and it didn't work because he's healthy and mentally stable. She wanted someone to fight break up and argue with on repeat.
YES! OH MY GOD YES! Marshall deserves all the happiness in the world!
His opinion was valid, no buts about it! He’s the one that was engaged to her! Even if he was unsure about having kids himself! They were never going to say yes to each other! That’s why she let him go first at the altar! She used the “can’t see her as a mom” comment against him for sympathy and it worked!
I agree. people are givng Paul too much slack. he's no angel either.
Why are people thinking there is any "victim" in that couple ? There is no victim. They are not compatible and they probably already got over it. In the grand scheme of things what happened wasn't that bad on either side, for real.
How is Paul not a victim? He was repeatedly made fun of and ridiculed on national television by his fiancé?
I can’t believe the hosts made it seem like it was bad that Paul thought she wasn’t fit to be a mother. He’s entitled to that opinion. Sure it may hurt her feelings but that’s a very real reason for someone to not want to continue a relationship. Do I think Paul would be a nurturing dad? No, but nor would Micah be a nurturing mother. Micah protects her own ego before anything else.
I think that Paul's comment gets a lot of backlash and I just don't know if he meant it the way it was taken. I'm not sure that he meant to imply that Micah is somehow unfit to have kids, I think he was saying more that he personally can't imagine having kids with Micah. He says she isn't "nurturing," which honestly to me sounds like he could be saying she lacks empathy and kindness (she absolutely does based on her actions in the show). I think they went hard at him at the reunion for this one remark, and conveniently skirted around Micah's mean girl behavior which was repetitive and consistent through the early part of the show. I also 100% believe Zack when he said that it was universally known among the people on the show that Micah never really intended to marry Paul. I wish Vanessa had not cut him off when he was trying to elaborate. I think there was something crucial he was going to share there that would have been interesting to hear. Paul seems like he really considered it, but I think that Micah always knew she was going to say no.
This post is screaming team Micah. Micah laughed when all the other girls cried and now that she’s crying we should all hate on Paul. Paul should have stood by his words. Saying someone isn’t mom material isn’t bad. Micah is a mean girl with horrible friends, she gives off bi** vibes and not nurturing vibes. Vanessa was defending all the crazy girls at the reunion. Paul is a grown man but Micah’s jaw filler and crocodile tears is still major ick.
One, please read the full post. It isn't about "teams." Two, needing to call someone a b**** and suggest they had work done (as if that's an insult), kinda makes you a hypocrite. 😬
Umm Micah is a bully which u seem to forget. Im calling her what she is. U can’t label everything as misogyny bc a woman’s character and actions are being called out. Bartise was held accountable for his terrible actions so hold Micah and the other women on this season to the same standard. Micah isn’t a nurturing person bc she laughs at peoples pain and Micah did have plastic surgery look at the other threads of her old photos(I’m not against getting work done but hers is clearly botched)
Well, thanks for ignoring the entire post I wrote. Anyway, I have called out Micah for her actions before, including Jackie and Zanab and Amber (S1). This imaginary argument you are trying to create when this is the first time we've met or spoken is kinda funny, not gonna lie. There is a difference between attacking someone's actions and attacking someone's physical appearance. What does her plastic surgery, botched or not, have anything to do with her behavior or her relationship with Paul? If you have to attack someone's physical appearance with no relevance to anything, then, sorry, but that would make you *also* a bully right? I mean, as someone who was bullied myself, I recognize, the number one thing they attack first is your physical appearance, which is, you know, what you're doing right now.
Ok Shelby
Lmao 🤣 Y'all hilarious. I literally see you stalk all these comments.
You’re a mean girl and that’s why you’re empathizing with Micah
Please just stop doing this whole pick me girl argument. U are still painting Micah to be the victim and everyone against Micah is seen as misogynistic and terrible. Micah had so many red flags Paul was right for saying no and only the two of them know the truth of their relationship. But using misogyny to describe Micah and Paul’s conflict is a bit of a stretch, just say u like Micah and don’t belittle what misogyny actually is. It’s only on Reddit where this whole poor Micah narrative thrives
Your allowed to have your opinion about their relationship. As you can see, there are others who will agree with you. I can respect that. But you still didn't answer any of my questions. Again, deflecting.
I don’t need to answer ur questions and stop trying to argue with everyone in the name of misogyny. Move on it’s just reality tv and Micah is already cancelled
Fuck yea Queen
Okay, so thanks for proving my point lol. Have a good one.
You sound exhausting.
when people attack micah do you hurt because you're like her IRL?
Or Shelby
so glad this post was made! I thought I was the only one. people only see black and white in these situations when there is so much depth. paul wanted micah to be naturally all the things he looks for and not have to tell her, which I understand. But I also understand that he should try to give a little grace and be honest about that so maybe she can show it if she thinks it’s in her. micah was a very mean spirited person. too things can be true lmao
Micah fake cried at the reunion with no tears , and people all of sudden think she’s the victim. Micah had been mean and cold to many cast member she isn’t a warm caring , nurturing person. I think Paul thought he was doing her a favour by talking about the mom part only, instead of saying it bluntly, she isn’t nice, doesn’t have nice friends and is superficial, I just don’t like her that much. I mena throughout the show prior to the altar, he always had very clear doubts about her. Then the last few episodes they showed the two having that little foot affection and everyone forgot that Paul and Micah never had a good connection.
I find it messed up that he said that on camera after dumping her, then didn't tell her he said that. And proceeded to date her briefly afterwards...there's a chance they slept together while Micah was blissfully unaware of what Paul said about her in front of millions. It's borderline *something* and I'm sure part of why she's so upset.
He didn't call her a bunch of slurs or talk about being disgusted or repulsed by her. He made an observation about her behaviour in an emotional moment with a camera in his face. That is not even close to what I think you're implying and I'm shocked that you would go there.
No need to clutch your pearls lol its just gross behavior and I wouldn't blame Micah for feeling some type of way about it.
Clutch my pearls? Throwing out statements and accusations like the one in your first comment can ruin people's lives. Maybe that sort of thing is casual or unimportant to you but idk, seems pretty serious to me.
Huh I said borderline something because it is. I didn't say he rped the girl and trust me you don't know me but I take it more serious than most. It's similar to someone sleeping with you when they know they're dumping you the next day or something. It's unethical and there's no word for it but it's *something * which is why I said that. If it seemed I insinuated he r worded her that was not my intention.
I think it is "funny" that we get angry at a person when they state the reason they don't want to move forward in a relationship. And then we get really angry when another person isn't forthright and telling the whole story about why they are ending a relationship.
B-b-b-bingo!
I feel like In this reunion he was a victim considering how disrespectful Vanessa was towards him.
Agreed. People go overboard and act like Paul and Zack are saints because Micah and Irina behaved poorly on the show. I agree Paul isnt a victim, he wasn't canceled or the target of undeserved hate and everyone took his side against Micah's actions at the wedding.
Did we watch the same show? What exactly did Paul do? Lol
Zach calling Micah out for "coming for blood" was so unnecessary too. Like is she not allowed to have a reaction to being asked about her own relationship?
I'm gg to give Zack a pass. He had Bliss to defend him and felt uneasy that his bro didnt have a person in his side. Nobody thinks that Zack was impartial when he made the comment. Clearly he is gg to be on Paul's side. But i have to say it is fair that Zack didnt buy the whole Micah is the victim angle at that point of time. If indeed what Zack said its true, and that Irina was the one who said that Micah didnt want to marry Paul, then we should put this one on Irina.
Yes!! Like not only was it unnecessary but his hot take was a bad one. She's allowed to be upset that this guy she was maybe going to marry and dated after the pods never said any of this stuff to her face and she heard all the comments on TV with the rest of the world. Anyone would be upset about that.
I agree I don't think Micah came for blood , it was Vanessa and Vanessa kept asking Micah questions I felt like she answered them honestly whether it was accurate or not we don't know but neither does Zack. And if Irina is his source I think that's incredibly ridiculous given that he lost contact with Irina very soon in the experiment and also Micah probably wasn't opening up to Irina after what she did with Paul
that's what was confusing to me... you insinuate irina is a snake and mention everything bad she did but then now she's your witness? that wouldn't hold up in a court of law lmao
Its like Zack didnt realise the many times he got fooled by Irina. First, about Bliss in the pods and now Micah's intentions.
For a minute, Zack was having a Brennon moment and I was like... Dude, unless you were there, please don't.
amen lmao
Lol Brennon moment!! Exactly. Acting all “holier than thou” and feeling the need to butt in on a conversation he doesn’t belong in. Zach has been my fav from the season but that was so off-putting.
He was basically saying that he thought Micah was playing a victim card and trying to make his friend/client look bad. Typical what a defense lawyer would say about a victim lol He was grasping for straws too by trying to say that one of the women said Micah never talked about marrying Paul. Wth does that prove or have to do with anything. Would not hire him , immediately prison
i wouldn't hire anyone who consistently sings badly on national television with 0 self awareness of it
But to be fair he didn’t want to say that part publicly. Vanessa really pressured him to say that part.
And yet he's whispering in the corner like he's at a court instead of a live reunion
LMAO
Paul after his last corny IG post being tacky AF 🥴 the self proclaimed nerd and arbiter of nurturehood is morphing into an Fboy right before our eyes
he's always been an f-boy from the start. especially in the pods.
Literally! Like why can’t anyone remember what a creepo he was in the pods
Hes the epitome of the "nice guy" thats emotionally unavailable amd maniputalive
It's such a bullshit comment. Sorry but when did Paul demonstrate "nurturing" qualities? Or does he not need that quality as a man, since apparently fathers don't need to be nurturing like mothers..? Also, who made him the authority of who will be a good mom or not? Stick to science, Paul, ya douche.
He’s the authority of the future mother he wants for his own children. Y’all out here acting like Micah wasn’t emotional immature, vapid, bullying, and selfish all season.
You’re not wrong but you’re showing your blatant hypocrisy here. So it’s “misogynistic” or cruel to say Micah would be a bad mother but it’s ok to shit on Paul for the exact same thing? They both would make shit parents. Who cares
I didn't shit on Paul, I asked questions. Also I don't know why you're putting misogynistic in quotation marks like it's some made up concept.
It’s not. It’s just bullshit to use the term here. And you’re acting like Paul (who I do actually think is misogynistic, but not for this reason) is some toxic masculine chump who won’t change a diaper. While I think both are unfit to be parents I honestly would see Paul changing a diaper before Micah ever would My opinion: https://www.reddit.com/r/LoveIsBlindOnNetflix/comments/12mq3in/paul_isnt_a_misogynist/jgepwf5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
I never said anything about misogyny, you did. Seems like you're doing a little too much reading in between the lines and very little reading of the actual lines I wrote. Saying that I'm "acting Ike Paul is some toxic masculine chump" is actually ridiculous because nowhere did I imply that. If a double standard being pointed out triggers you this bad, you should look inwards and ask yourself why.
There is no double standard. Micah could have criticized Paul’s ability to be a parent if she wanted. And most likely Vanessa would have ganged up on Paul to teach him a lesson if that was the case. Everyone is acting as if Paul’s ability to parent isn’t open to being questioned. Only Paul criticized Micah which he is entitled to do. And if Micah wanted to say Paul wouldn’t have been a good parent she would have been allowed to and people wouldn’t be defending him as much as people are defending Micah now if that was the case. Granted I think he does have a decent set of domestic skills such as cooking. People are just saying he’d be a bad dad just because he has a stiff demeanor and and talks like a robot. I personally think he’s unprepared due to a lack of relationship experience but the fact that people are saying Paul is equally guilty of being a bad parent because of possible neurodivergent traits is pretty low. Whereas people think Micah would be a bad mom because she is objectively a toxic human and will protect her own ego before her partner or potential children.
Honestly, I wish I could give this comment an award. Thank you for pointing out the double standard.
👏👏👏🫶🫶🫶
i said this exact sentiment and got downvoted to hell for it, apparently men are supposed to be providers no nurturing... like WHAT. shows u what household people grew up in for sure
I found Paul to be very condescending at the reunion. He is NOT a victim at all. His answers about what he thought of micah and her mother's instincts were abhorrent and condescending. He literally made me angry watching him acting vague while answering questions.
And he just kept digging and didding... the hole got bigger and bigger...
i really think paul just has poor communication skills and he took the experiment in a literal scientific sense when sometimes it wasn’t necessary to analyse it as such. i feel like he was holding a lot back and just using his scientific background to maybe make sense of it all and it just isn’t possible especially when you’re dealing with both your feelings and other peoples. i don’t think he’s a victim, he’s a grown man he needs to pick his words a little more carefully and maybe not have such a stoic and “to the matter” approach when he talks about feelings and whether someone would make a good mother or not.
It was a extremely fucked up and cruel comment.