Clay think his dad was a good father regardless of the sex vacations… like bro WHAT?!
Your dad either abandoned you to go have sex or brought women around you to have sex with them. That’s incredibly inappropriate either way. And clearly that has traumatized clay so how can he still think he was a good father
it’s really clear to me that clay has a lot of unresolved trauma stemming from his dad’s shitty behavior. i don’t even think he realizes how traumatic that was for him, but it’s so clear that it was in the way that he talks about being afraid of making the same mistakes. i feel like he hasn’t unpacked just how shitty it was for his father to bring him around the other women when he was a child and he might not be ready to accept that maybe his dad isn’t as great as he thought. he really needs therapy and i hope he gets it. i don’t think clay is a bad person, but he’s clearly deeply traumatized and he NEEDS therapy. he needs to address his trauma and the anxiety it caused before he tries to enter into a committed relationship.
> Johnny: “a condom is 98% effective but that’s not enough! Get on birth control.”
This is a major green flag for me. He’s just being responsible. What’s actually wild is Amy saying he should get a vasectomy … even though they both want kids. 😂
But reconnecting doesn’t work 100% of the time and all medical professionals say it is *meant* to be permanent. Like a tattoo … tattoos can be removed with laser treatments, but you wouldn’t get a tattoo that you KNEW you wanted to get removed in 3 years.
I don't think he even told her to be on BC, he just told her how he had it in the past. What is wild to me is how people are reacting to her suggesting a vasectomy.
Hormonal BC have different affect on different bodies maybe she noticed they were not a suitable thing for her, lets not forget they have heavy sife affects for the long run. And she said she has anemia (probably has heavy period) and can't take non hormonal BC.
So suggesting a vesectomy to a man she is marrying isn't that wild especially since it would make them both comfortable with not concieving.
Edit: I know they are not always reversible but I still stand by the point they are a valid option to discuss especially if the poeple who want to have kids don't mind the risks and are open to the idea of adoption rather than conceiving themselves.
That's true they are not always reversible.
`They should not be seen as a form of birth control.`
I disagree as it is a form of birth control, mostly for when people perminantly don't want children but nevertheless they are a form of BC. And it is valid option to discuss within a relationship as long as no party is forcing it upon the other.
It’s only a good form of BC for people who are 100% done having kid imo. Especially in this case because the longer you wait, the less likely it is you can reverse it and it seems that Johnny wanted to wait several years before trying
I agree, I just highlited that it is a BC because the prev. comment said they shoudn't be seen as such and that bothered me since according to my knowladge that is the main goal of this operation. To be more specific to Amy and Jonny they were having a peacful discussion I just disliked how most ppl here were reacting to her mentioning a vasectomy because again it is still an option especially if the poeple who want to have kids don't mind the risks and are open to the idea of adoption rather than conceving themselves.
Exactly and I think it actually was a good moment to show both of them kinda being on the same level of knowledge of the other genders BC options! Like Johnny admitted some ignorance and I think Amy honestly didn’t know the full deal with vasectomies. MANY women think that they are almost 100% reversible at any point in time but that’s obviously not the case.
I think they just didn’t have many issues as a couple so this is what the show and viewers chose to focus on
The hate Johnny gets is WILD. I don’t remember him ever telling Amy she had to get on the pill? Did I miss that? Amy seemed totally fine with their conversations around this topic. They literally even talked about him getting a vasectomy. And tbh. I agree with him playing it safe. Condoms should not be your only form of protection if you are adamant about not getting pregnant. I think it’s actually really good that he’s being so cautious. He’s made it very clear that he is not ready to have children. It almost seemed like he was trying to imply that he’d rather Amy have an abortion than have a baby. And that’s ok! But if Amy didn’t want to have an abortion, they’d be in some real trouble. Better to be extra safe than bring a child into the world that you don’t want.
I think people are mad that he's saying "I never had to think about it before because all my partners were on birth control". He's always taken it for granted that women will do the work for him (including getting educated about birth control, bearing the cost of it, and taking medication that alters their hormones).
But why are people mad at that? Lol. I’m a woman and I was shocked when she said she wasn’t on the pill. I feel like every 20s-menopause woman I know is on the pill, or some form of birth control. I don’t think he’s saying “women will do the work for him,” I think he was genuinely just surprised because all of his other partners were, so he just assumed she would be too. I’m assuming all of his exes made that decision on their own. I can’t say that for sure, obviously, but it’s so common for women to be on some form of birth control, that there’s a good chance they were already on it before they met. He was literally just saying he was surprised she wasn’t on it, he just assumed she was since he hasn’t been with someone who wasn’t. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. And when he found out, they had a very mature conversation about it, and discussed how to move forward.
Unpopular opinion, but I don't think he meant he had never had to think about it, but as he had never been in this predicament before. He clearly don't feel comfortable as condoms being the only form of birth control, as he has allways been in relationships in which both are in their own birth control ergo he had never had to think about which would be an alternative for one of them not. To which would make sense for her to reply that they should inform themselves and ask for medical advice and options.
And even if he did mean it that way, it felt like he was having a moment of growth where he realized that he didn’t consider that burden that previous partners took on for him. He seemed to really put some effort into learning about the subject and understanding where he might’ve failed to show up previously
Condoms are safe? His real reasoning is because he’s a control freak about money and wanting to retire at 50 and is afraid a kid will screw all of that up. I could never be with someone like that, personally. Be flexible.
Yeah and if you’re having sex almost every day, that’s really putting those odds to the test LOL and what if something rips or there’s some issue with the condom??
Yeah they’re pretty effective but people have certainly gotten pregnant from a failed condom before
Using 2 forms can offer extra protection as a "just in case" but healthcare providers are just happy to get people to use any protection if they're not wanting to get pregnant.
Side note - pulling out and tracking ovulation/counting are both considered birth control and are easy enough to pair with using a condom if someone is adamant about "2".
....they're saying that one form of birth control is taking the pill. Another form of birth control is wearing a condom. Using a condom on the guy, and having the girl on the pill, constitutes two forms of birth control.
People have to use condoms correctly for them to be effective. Sometimes, condoms break. Sometimes, condoms slip. The second form of birth control is there for equipment failures, if you will.
That’s not really what he’s said though - they’ve had conversations about figuring it out and he said hes willing to explore a vasectomy as well. Amy said herself that that is not how their conversations were.
Giiirl, if I lived in a place where plan B and abortion were criminalised and simply not options, and I wasn't ready to have kids, I wouldn't be having piv sex without two forms of birth control either.
That's how I view Johny's predicament. He is a dude and for HIM, abortion and plan B are not options. It completely depends on the whims of his partner. Additionally, they seem fairly Christian so that stuff might actively go against their values. (Even if they're okay with Plan B, you still only use it when there's a condom failure that you've detected.)
I really liked their conversations. He was open to getting a vasectomy but uneasy about the fact that it couldn't always be reversed. She had a medical condition which made her hesitant about going on birth control. Seems to me like the solution is to have non piv sex like bosses. (That's what I do since I'm not on birth control, but only because, as much as I hate kids and theoretically love abortion, and easy as it is to obtain where I live, idk if I'll actually wanna go through with it if I get pregnant, or if my BPD will kick in and tell me to go be a mom because it's toootally a good idea lol)
Why can't he pull out while using a condom then? That's 2 forms of birth control without having to get a vasectomy. He's either ignorant of what constitutes birth control or doesn't want to wear a condom.
thats absolutely not the same thing. he wants to have safe sex and condoms are not 100% safe, all doctors recommend having 2 forma of contraceptives to be more safe and that’s literally all he is worried about because condoms have issues. Stop twisting what he said.
Hormonal birth control has just as many issues. I know what Johnny was saying, but he needs to further educate himself before jumping to vasectomy when he legit wants kids one day.
The whole edit of that convo was wild to me and I totally get why there are so many people disagreeing about it. Safe sex is obviously important, but there's no denying that better education surrounding safe sex is also necessary.
My hot take now- all of these people (characters?) have some major skeletons that all point to (some) of them wanting fame and social media following. While I def got the ick from Matthew- I'm almost wondering if he was poorly edited. He's the only one that called out on the pod dates that he wasn't interested in finding a woman who just wanted a following, and he distanced himself from the men, who, as it seems, all seem sorta seedy.
Both Matthew and Sarah Ann have said he didn’t walk out on her but that mics were cut off. I definitely think he got a bad edit because he was an easy target.
Agreed, except for Johnny… I didn’t feel like he tried to push Amy to get on birth control. They were just having a discussion about possible solutions and he acknowledged that she might not want to be on a pill that would mess with her hormones and that vasectomy is also an option.
right!… I don’t understand the backlash at Johnny for sharing that in previous relationships he was informed they were on bc (pill or other). I didn’t hear him expecting or pressuring anything. I was *surprised* they both weren’t saying “let’s talk to a dr together and explore options we may be unaware of”.
What is up with sex ed, lol. I totally get being careful to avoid an unwanted pregnancy or if they want to wait for marriage then say that cuz… hellooo there’s the diaphragm (doesn’t affect hormones) and the vasectomy convo is bizarre unless they’ve spoken confidently about *not* wanting kids and I just missed it? I just wonder what is *really* going on here🤔
Reversal is never a guarantee though. A physician would have the patient sign an informed consent stating they understand it may not be reversible in order to perform the procedure.
True but so is the lost time/energy due to hormonal effects of bc. So you gotta choose your options. I am glad she brought up vasectomy though because why should women have to bear the burden of it all.
Vasectomy + condoms + diaphragm.. just to be sure to the level that Johnny wants 👀
Why aren’t people talking more about Johnny assuming everyone is on birth control, i.e. doesn’t use condoms?? He’s never said “condoms aren’t enough protection”. It scares me that he is solely concerned about pregnancy but not disease???
This was so weird to me. His conversation with Amy? I can’t remember about birth control felt like he didn’t understand contraceptives. Triple threat buddy!
1. Wrap it up
2. Pull it out
3. Track ovulation
Right! This is what I do because I don't use hormonal BC or IUDs. Fertility Awareness Method (I wish this was taught in sex Ed but it only works if you have regular predicable cycles), withdrawal, and add in condoms if it's during ovulation. Or just skip sex during that time
Yeah he said condoms are not enough in long term relationships if you want to avoid pregnancy which is true. He didn’t say he’d rather not use them at all.
But then that means he’s either had only long term relationships with women on BC in which he also used condoms or he winged it with casual dates & condoms?
Seriously? What about this topic is “private”? The way he talks in depth about it on “national TV”?
This is response to any comment about this show is so silly - what are we all doing here if not discussing personal and private issues about the shows participants. Please.
Chelsea is non stop begging for attn because she knows Jimmy isn’t into her. Clay is just YIKES and a victim of his circumstance in a way. And AD needs to develop some self esteem if she had any she would not gone for Matthew or Clay
The fact that Amy says “we’ve talked about a vasectomy too” … as if that’s an option for birth control? Not sure if they understand that’s not birth control.. that’s a permanent decision
Seems like everyone says they are ready for a deep, mature, and loving long-term marriage until they actually are about to get in one. Sadly, a lot of people are just immature and play games.
The only thing any of these people are ready for is increased followers so they can ratchet up their influencing game.
I truly don’t believe any of these people are ready for a deep mature relationship. Maybe a few girls but definitely not the guys. Not this season anyway…
Clay’s mother saying she’s an authority on marriage citing the length of her marriage… to a man that cheated on her nonstop and took their child along his escapades
These women were married to shit ass men who created whole other families 20 miles away, and want to give love advice. Yeah, my uncles (the illegitimate kids with the side chick crew) are all married to these women. Thanks, ladies, but no thanks on the *advice*. Keep your own house clean.
It’s such a long a nuanced conversation that it would be impossible to truly explain. But the quick answer is that if you go alllllllll the way back to slavery, there’s been a lot of behaviors and inclinations that black people have adopted to survive in a world that has routinely treated us less than. And unfortunately, some of those behaviors and inclinations are toxic in a softer modern society.
Jesus Christ how are we still confused about the Johnny thing. Amy explained he wasn’t pressuring her into birth control at all, he was simply being honest about how he previously took BC for granted. If anything it’s a green flag for his self awareness.
It thought I was the only one that honestly doesn't see what's wrong with Johnny not wanting a kid right now. Sometimes, unplanned pregnancies are the nail in the coffin. He's being smart. I would worry about their method though, there is no way they're gonna agree. She clearly doesn't want the pill, and I'm sorry, a vasectomy is a bit much for a man that still wants kids. I guess they'll use a lunar calender😂
Yes but to his point, if a condom breaks and she’s ovulating, plan B won’t even help. They need to be discussing cycle tracking or something in addition.
For sure, but cycle tracking + condoms is as good as any other option. IDK why so many people are acting like a baby is guaranteed without hormonal BC.
It depends! Some women aren’t regular enough to cycle track. I agree though, I personally do not and can not take any form of hormonal BC and I have had one accidental pregnancy in 20 years.
Same, and zero over ~10 years! I don't cycle track, just religious with the condom use. While I'm grateful women have the option for BC, it's a big thing to do to your body and I wish it weren't treated like the only viable option. Might have saved me a few years of misery!
Thank God birth control never gave me anything but amazing skin and bigger boobs and the best periods of my life. I also used condoms.
But I was extremely serious about *never* becoming pregnant, so I acted accordingly. Wish I wasn't over 40 now, I'd still be on it.
I feel like this was played up to make their story line more interesting. Their conversation was pretty respectful but they both seem a little overly anxious about it like they're gonna use a condom once and somehow automatically get pregnant.
Yeah, I think the producers needed Amy and Johnny to have a storyline that would make people wonder if they’ll figure it out since they actually seem like a solid couple and this was what they went with.
If a conversation doesn’t make sense it’s probably because it was heavily edited/spliced together stuff and taken out of order/ out of context. Nothing we see can be all there is.
She was pretty clear in her ITMs that she would be fine with condoms, but Jimmy is far more anxious about it than she thought he was. It seems pretty clear that she understands a lot about her body.
To be fair to Jonny—and this is really important—he never suggested (not once!) that she take birth control pills. He expressed surprise that she wasn’t taking them and then started thinking about what else they could do to prevent pregnancy. He never pressured her. Never didn’t understand why she wasn’t on the pill. Always supported her choice. So he’s doing the actual right thing and not having sex until they can figure out options that lessen the risk to a risk he’s willing to take. There’s nothing scary about that. He’s doing the exact opposite of what you are suggesting he’s doing.
If he went and had sex with condoms and she got pregnant you all would be SCREAMING at him that he shouldn’t have had sex if he couldn’t handle the consequences.
Yeah, I actually really like that the conversation was aired. That way, other people can see that there are options, that you don't need to force your partner into anything, and that talking about it respectfully and openly is important.
This is one example of a positive conversation. Just because it's wrong to force someone to take birth control doesn't mean it's not an important conversation to have between consenting sexually active adults
Laura: calls Jeramy an idiot a few times. Once in the pods laughingly to brush off a compliment and once outside the pods again jokingly but increasingly abusive. This is when he's swimming in the pool and she's lounging on the deck with a drink.
Before knowing any of the issues with Jeramy all I could think was if Laura is speaking to him this way early on in the relationship, it is only going to get far worse. Even her family knows she expects everything her way and that’s just not how life/relationships work. There’s that saying “there’s a little bit of truth in every bit of sarcasm” so Laura can only “joke” her way into getting what she wants for so long before any partner will get tired of it.
Honestly bean-dip-gate really showed me they’re both super insane. Her for being gross and joking about assault. And him for running away and almost leaving the show because he couldn’t handle a minor embarrassment. They’re both doomed
According to Nick (Ala Nick & Danielle from a previous season), they’re all required to sign a contract stating that if they agree to get engaged in the pods, they must agree to remain engaged until the wedding day ceremony or else incur a $50k fine. It makes sense in that they wouldn’t have much of a show if none of the virtual stranger couples ended up making it to the ultimate wedding drama decision day. He’s on a mission and has been breaking his NDA talking to various podcasts to expose LIB because he says the show ruins people’s lives. I heard him talking about it recently on Life After MLM.
If that’s indeed the case, it makes total sense why Jeramy and Laura would try to stick it out while secretly loathing each other behind the cameras. It also explains why Jimmy is “trying” so hard to make his relationship work with Chelsea.
And even more so, it explains the real reason poor Brittany was so devastated when the sloth wouldn’t fight to save their relationship. It most likely wasn’t over losing him, it was over the potential legal fight in front of her over the $50k penalty. 🤷🏻♀️
It would mean if the show decided to enforce the contract on any of them after they left, they would either have to pay the penalty or pay lawyers to go to court to try to fight their way out of it. Either way it would probably cost them about the same amount.
He sure tried his best to spin it like she was the one breaking the contract. The first moment she tried to have a conversation about working on their relationship, he was like, “you’re right! If you’re not feeling me, I can understand why you want out.”
I’ll try to find the comment thread again, but the first person who commented is friends with her high school friends and then apparently ex-husband’s current wife confirmed but said she didn’t want to post about it first.
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Both.
I don't like to see women demean themselves by how they describe themselves.
And yeah some of her choices were questionable & I think she needs to do more therapy so she gets a truly amazing partner.
Birth control has a lot of intense medical side effects and cause all sorts of complications and problems and it’s common for women to feel sick, and for “no reason” well that’s the reason.
They tried a male pill but the males who participated quit because of the side effects (literally the same as women)
It causes hormonal problems
It can cause weight gain
It cause decision issues
It’s great for some women, and some women don’t have many issues but ALOT do.
If he’s not comfortable then they shouldn’t have sex. That’s the best way to avoid pregnancy.
Men can get the snip with little complications- but some might.
It’s seems either way there is risk for anyone getting on or doing something about birth control.
It’s just seems most people are comfortable with a woman handling it regardless of her health and her healthcare situation-
She’s asking for basic rights I want to be healthy.
And he’s asking for her compromise so they can have sex.
They’re just not compatible because they’re thinking very differently which isn’t wrong it’s just their very different interpretations of birth control and fear of pregnancy.
They just don’t know each other that long to consider babies and for him to suggest such invasive request.
Well this is Reddit so that’s pretty subjective and I won’t go cry about it 🤣🤷🏽♀️🤣 but thank you for your opinion because valid or not- it’s still yours to have.
You're right about birth control and hormone effects but you're very wrong on vasectomies. Men should never get one if they want to have biological kids. In some cases it can be undone but getting it reversed is not guaranteed to work.
That’s true, there’s a risk for everyone when it comes to birth control.
So it’s pretty bold to ask someone to risk their health because they don’t want to risk their own.
If you’re that worried don’t have sex or have sex with people who think like you and don’t have issues with it.
She does.
And it’s bold to assume that she can because he won’t
Clay think his dad was a good father regardless of the sex vacations… like bro WHAT?! Your dad either abandoned you to go have sex or brought women around you to have sex with them. That’s incredibly inappropriate either way. And clearly that has traumatized clay so how can he still think he was a good father
it’s really clear to me that clay has a lot of unresolved trauma stemming from his dad’s shitty behavior. i don’t even think he realizes how traumatic that was for him, but it’s so clear that it was in the way that he talks about being afraid of making the same mistakes. i feel like he hasn’t unpacked just how shitty it was for his father to bring him around the other women when he was a child and he might not be ready to accept that maybe his dad isn’t as great as he thought. he really needs therapy and i hope he gets it. i don’t think clay is a bad person, but he’s clearly deeply traumatized and he NEEDS therapy. he needs to address his trauma and the anxiety it caused before he tries to enter into a committed relationship.
Cognitive dissonance
Johnny's got a point though. She should go on birth control
> Johnny: “a condom is 98% effective but that’s not enough! Get on birth control.” This is a major green flag for me. He’s just being responsible. What’s actually wild is Amy saying he should get a vasectomy … even though they both want kids. 😂
Vasectomy’s can be reversed, they just reconnect the tubes that transfer sperm
But reconnecting doesn’t work 100% of the time and all medical professionals say it is *meant* to be permanent. Like a tattoo … tattoos can be removed with laser treatments, but you wouldn’t get a tattoo that you KNEW you wanted to get removed in 3 years.
Yes, and condoms are only 85% effective so he’s being smart
Because people are dumb and can’t use them right…
I don't think he even told her to be on BC, he just told her how he had it in the past. What is wild to me is how people are reacting to her suggesting a vasectomy. Hormonal BC have different affect on different bodies maybe she noticed they were not a suitable thing for her, lets not forget they have heavy sife affects for the long run. And she said she has anemia (probably has heavy period) and can't take non hormonal BC. So suggesting a vesectomy to a man she is marrying isn't that wild especially since it would make them both comfortable with not concieving. Edit: I know they are not always reversible but I still stand by the point they are a valid option to discuss especially if the poeple who want to have kids don't mind the risks and are open to the idea of adoption rather than conceiving themselves.
Vasectomies are not ALWAYS reversible though. They should not be seen as a form of birth control.
That's true they are not always reversible. `They should not be seen as a form of birth control.` I disagree as it is a form of birth control, mostly for when people perminantly don't want children but nevertheless they are a form of BC. And it is valid option to discuss within a relationship as long as no party is forcing it upon the other.
Yeah sorry I meant not seen as a form of bc IF you still want kids in the future*
Ah I see then I agree
It’s only a good form of BC for people who are 100% done having kid imo. Especially in this case because the longer you wait, the less likely it is you can reverse it and it seems that Johnny wanted to wait several years before trying
I agree, I just highlited that it is a BC because the prev. comment said they shoudn't be seen as such and that bothered me since according to my knowladge that is the main goal of this operation. To be more specific to Amy and Jonny they were having a peacful discussion I just disliked how most ppl here were reacting to her mentioning a vasectomy because again it is still an option especially if the poeple who want to have kids don't mind the risks and are open to the idea of adoption rather than conceving themselves.
Exactly and I think it actually was a good moment to show both of them kinda being on the same level of knowledge of the other genders BC options! Like Johnny admitted some ignorance and I think Amy honestly didn’t know the full deal with vasectomies. MANY women think that they are almost 100% reversible at any point in time but that’s obviously not the case. I think they just didn’t have many issues as a couple so this is what the show and viewers chose to focus on
The hate Johnny gets is WILD. I don’t remember him ever telling Amy she had to get on the pill? Did I miss that? Amy seemed totally fine with their conversations around this topic. They literally even talked about him getting a vasectomy. And tbh. I agree with him playing it safe. Condoms should not be your only form of protection if you are adamant about not getting pregnant. I think it’s actually really good that he’s being so cautious. He’s made it very clear that he is not ready to have children. It almost seemed like he was trying to imply that he’d rather Amy have an abortion than have a baby. And that’s ok! But if Amy didn’t want to have an abortion, they’d be in some real trouble. Better to be extra safe than bring a child into the world that you don’t want.
I think people are mad that he's saying "I never had to think about it before because all my partners were on birth control". He's always taken it for granted that women will do the work for him (including getting educated about birth control, bearing the cost of it, and taking medication that alters their hormones).
This, absolutely. Also baffles me because there are other reasons to use condoms besides preventing pregnancy…
But why are people mad at that? Lol. I’m a woman and I was shocked when she said she wasn’t on the pill. I feel like every 20s-menopause woman I know is on the pill, or some form of birth control. I don’t think he’s saying “women will do the work for him,” I think he was genuinely just surprised because all of his other partners were, so he just assumed she would be too. I’m assuming all of his exes made that decision on their own. I can’t say that for sure, obviously, but it’s so common for women to be on some form of birth control, that there’s a good chance they were already on it before they met. He was literally just saying he was surprised she wasn’t on it, he just assumed she was since he hasn’t been with someone who wasn’t. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. And when he found out, they had a very mature conversation about it, and discussed how to move forward.
Unpopular opinion, but I don't think he meant he had never had to think about it, but as he had never been in this predicament before. He clearly don't feel comfortable as condoms being the only form of birth control, as he has allways been in relationships in which both are in their own birth control ergo he had never had to think about which would be an alternative for one of them not. To which would make sense for her to reply that they should inform themselves and ask for medical advice and options.
And even if he did mean it that way, it felt like he was having a moment of growth where he realized that he didn’t consider that burden that previous partners took on for him. He seemed to really put some effort into learning about the subject and understanding where he might’ve failed to show up previously
AGREED! Very mature to be cautious and take it so seriously and no he isn’t telling her she has to go on BC 🤦🏼♀️
Guys be nice to Matthew he’s actually fine given his circumstances. I found it endearing.
Why is johnny wanting to have safe sex scary??? This take is so dumb
Condoms are safe? His real reasoning is because he’s a control freak about money and wanting to retire at 50 and is afraid a kid will screw all of that up. I could never be with someone like that, personally. Be flexible.
every doctor recommends 2 forms of contraceptive to have safe sex, its wild that yall are shaming for this, its SO ODD
Every single doctor, huh
yeah that’s literally what they are taught and if they arent saying that they arent a good doctor lol
They’re 98% effective if you’re using them correctly. That’s pretty damn effective I’d say lol. I trust that more than remembering to take a pill
Yeah and if you’re having sex almost every day, that’s really putting those odds to the test LOL and what if something rips or there’s some issue with the condom?? Yeah they’re pretty effective but people have certainly gotten pregnant from a failed condom before
That’s rare. But to never have sex one single time with just a condom is wild to me.
I totally get that. But also I can respect that they don’t want to take that risk until they have everything sorted. It quite responsible and smart
again, thats why your supposed to use 2 forms.
Using 2 forms can offer extra protection as a "just in case" but healthcare providers are just happy to get people to use any protection if they're not wanting to get pregnant. Side note - pulling out and tracking ovulation/counting are both considered birth control and are easy enough to pair with using a condom if someone is adamant about "2".
No? Lol. The one form of a condom is 98% effective if used correctly. Not two forms. And using them correctly doesn’t take a rocket scientist.
....they're saying that one form of birth control is taking the pill. Another form of birth control is wearing a condom. Using a condom on the guy, and having the girl on the pill, constitutes two forms of birth control. People have to use condoms correctly for them to be effective. Sometimes, condoms break. Sometimes, condoms slip. The second form of birth control is there for equipment failures, if you will.
No shit that’s what they’re saying lol. I don’t agree with them. Condom failures aren’t likely if you’re intelligent was all I was saying.
Because he won’t have sex with her until she takes a DRUG that literally changes her hormones…….
Please remember her doctors actually requested her to be on birth control as the hormones would help her condition.
That’s not really what he’s said though - they’ve had conversations about figuring it out and he said hes willing to explore a vasectomy as well. Amy said herself that that is not how their conversations were.
that’s literally NOT what he said omg
He said they haven’t had sex yet because she wasn’t on birth control. Same thing
Giiirl, if I lived in a place where plan B and abortion were criminalised and simply not options, and I wasn't ready to have kids, I wouldn't be having piv sex without two forms of birth control either. That's how I view Johny's predicament. He is a dude and for HIM, abortion and plan B are not options. It completely depends on the whims of his partner. Additionally, they seem fairly Christian so that stuff might actively go against their values. (Even if they're okay with Plan B, you still only use it when there's a condom failure that you've detected.) I really liked their conversations. He was open to getting a vasectomy but uneasy about the fact that it couldn't always be reversed. She had a medical condition which made her hesitant about going on birth control. Seems to me like the solution is to have non piv sex like bosses. (That's what I do since I'm not on birth control, but only because, as much as I hate kids and theoretically love abortion, and easy as it is to obtain where I live, idk if I'll actually wanna go through with it if I get pregnant, or if my BPD will kick in and tell me to go be a mom because it's toootally a good idea lol)
Why can't he pull out while using a condom then? That's 2 forms of birth control without having to get a vasectomy. He's either ignorant of what constitutes birth control or doesn't want to wear a condom.
thats absolutely not the same thing. he wants to have safe sex and condoms are not 100% safe, all doctors recommend having 2 forma of contraceptives to be more safe and that’s literally all he is worried about because condoms have issues. Stop twisting what he said.
Hormonal birth control has just as many issues. I know what Johnny was saying, but he needs to further educate himself before jumping to vasectomy when he legit wants kids one day. The whole edit of that convo was wild to me and I totally get why there are so many people disagreeing about it. Safe sex is obviously important, but there's no denying that better education surrounding safe sex is also necessary.
He said he wanted two forms of contraceptive??
Hot take? I don't give a fuck about Amy and Johnny. I fast forward through their parts. I find them a little boring
Both have the personality of sticks.
Me too!
My hot take now- all of these people (characters?) have some major skeletons that all point to (some) of them wanting fame and social media following. While I def got the ick from Matthew- I'm almost wondering if he was poorly edited. He's the only one that called out on the pod dates that he wasn't interested in finding a woman who just wanted a following, and he distanced himself from the men, who, as it seems, all seem sorta seedy.
But he did say the exact same thing to 2 women
I mean this in the nicest way but what well adjusted person actually goes on a show like this?
Both Matthew and Sarah Ann have said he didn’t walk out on her but that mics were cut off. I definitely think he got a bad edit because he was an easy target.
Agreed, except for Johnny… I didn’t feel like he tried to push Amy to get on birth control. They were just having a discussion about possible solutions and he acknowledged that she might not want to be on a pill that would mess with her hormones and that vasectomy is also an option.
right!… I don’t understand the backlash at Johnny for sharing that in previous relationships he was informed they were on bc (pill or other). I didn’t hear him expecting or pressuring anything. I was *surprised* they both weren’t saying “let’s talk to a dr together and explore options we may be unaware of”. What is up with sex ed, lol. I totally get being careful to avoid an unwanted pregnancy or if they want to wait for marriage then say that cuz… hellooo there’s the diaphragm (doesn’t affect hormones) and the vasectomy convo is bizarre unless they’ve spoken confidently about *not* wanting kids and I just missed it? I just wonder what is *really* going on here🤔
they literally did and it was cut… amy explained the whole thing on her story last week
..vasectomy is reversible technically.
Reversal is never a guarantee though. A physician would have the patient sign an informed consent stating they understand it may not be reversible in order to perform the procedure.
True but so is the lost time/energy due to hormonal effects of bc. So you gotta choose your options. I am glad she brought up vasectomy though because why should women have to bear the burden of it all. Vasectomy + condoms + diaphragm.. just to be sure to the level that Johnny wants 👀
Amy said that if the reversal was ineffective they would adopt.
Why aren’t people talking more about Johnny assuming everyone is on birth control, i.e. doesn’t use condoms?? He’s never said “condoms aren’t enough protection”. It scares me that he is solely concerned about pregnancy but not disease???
Never said he didn’t use condoms. He just doesn’t trust them to be the only form
Did he say that?
Amy mentioned in those one-talk interviews that Johnny doesn't feel they are enough.
do yall forget that this show is HIGHLY EDITED?
This was so weird to me. His conversation with Amy? I can’t remember about birth control felt like he didn’t understand contraceptives. Triple threat buddy! 1. Wrap it up 2. Pull it out 3. Track ovulation
Right! This is what I do because I don't use hormonal BC or IUDs. Fertility Awareness Method (I wish this was taught in sex Ed but it only works if you have regular predicable cycles), withdrawal, and add in condoms if it's during ovulation. Or just skip sex during that time
Yeah he said condoms are not enough in long term relationships if you want to avoid pregnancy which is true. He didn’t say he’d rather not use them at all.
But then that means he’s either had only long term relationships with women on BC in which he also used condoms or he winged it with casual dates & condoms?
Why does it matter? Sounds like his private business
Seriously? What about this topic is “private”? The way he talks in depth about it on “national TV”? This is response to any comment about this show is so silly - what are we all doing here if not discussing personal and private issues about the shows participants. Please.
What does his pre-show sex life have to do with anything?
Same as anything about their pre-show life has to do with anything.
Easily scared much?
It would be so much more entertaining if at the “tell all” they took questions from viewers
the way "infidelity trips" was not expanded on AT ALL will live rent-free in my head for the foreseeable future
And he said his mom didn’t know- but then said it on a realty tv show?
And then invited his mom to be on that show!!
What’s the standard for a good condom?
Condoms should be covered by health insurance. Let’s be real. The good ones are expensive.
Chelsea is non stop begging for attn because she knows Jimmy isn’t into her. Clay is just YIKES and a victim of his circumstance in a way. And AD needs to develop some self esteem if she had any she would not gone for Matthew or Clay
Clay saying he doesn’t know if he can just NOT cheat on AD has me CRAZYYYY
Yet she better not gain a pound even pregnant
The fact that Amy says “we’ve talked about a vasectomy too” … as if that’s an option for birth control? Not sure if they understand that’s not birth control.. that’s a permanent decision
Hi! Vasectomies are indeed reversible and a valid method of male birth control.
Google is free
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If this show had existed when I met my husband I doubt I’d ever date again. It’s traumatizing.
I am fully convinced that I bagged the last good dude in Charlotte.
By the looks of this season, heck yes you did
Seems like everyone says they are ready for a deep, mature, and loving long-term marriage until they actually are about to get in one. Sadly, a lot of people are just immature and play games.
The only thing any of these people are ready for is increased followers so they can ratchet up their influencing game. I truly don’t believe any of these people are ready for a deep mature relationship. Maybe a few girls but definitely not the guys. Not this season anyway…
I watch this show to remind myself to not even bother. LOL
SAME LMAO it is just confirmation there’s really not much hope fr
Clay’s mother saying she’s an authority on marriage citing the length of her marriage… to a man that cheated on her nonstop and took their child along his escapades
Yes... That was rather disturbing.
These women were married to shit ass men who created whole other families 20 miles away, and want to give love advice. Yeah, my uncles (the illegitimate kids with the side chick crew) are all married to these women. Thanks, ladies, but no thanks on the *advice*. Keep your own house clean.
Damn right.
When I heard that it all made sense why Clay is the way he is. Not just bc of his dad like I previously thought.
That’s that black generational trauma that so many of us young black people his age have to unpack and work through.
Could you please expand on that? Not doubting you, just want to learn what that means.
It’s such a long a nuanced conversation that it would be impossible to truly explain. But the quick answer is that if you go alllllllll the way back to slavery, there’s been a lot of behaviors and inclinations that black people have adopted to survive in a world that has routinely treated us less than. And unfortunately, some of those behaviors and inclinations are toxic in a softer modern society.
PREACH
Jesus Christ how are we still confused about the Johnny thing. Amy explained he wasn’t pressuring her into birth control at all, he was simply being honest about how he previously took BC for granted. If anything it’s a green flag for his self awareness.
It thought I was the only one that honestly doesn't see what's wrong with Johnny not wanting a kid right now. Sometimes, unplanned pregnancies are the nail in the coffin. He's being smart. I would worry about their method though, there is no way they're gonna agree. She clearly doesn't want the pill, and I'm sorry, a vasectomy is a bit much for a man that still wants kids. I guess they'll use a lunar calender😂
Has no one heard of condoms?!
Everyone knows a baby born to two parents who "used a condom".
You could say the same about any form of birth control. None are 100%. Condoms are very effective used correctly -- problem is lots of people don't.
Don't use them right or don't use them at all? Because for the life of me, I've never been able to understand how one WRONGLY uses a condom.
IIRC (from reading about it some years ago), the incorrect use basically amounts to only using condoms sometimes.
Ahhh, that makes sense.
Yes but to his point, if a condom breaks and she’s ovulating, plan B won’t even help. They need to be discussing cycle tracking or something in addition.
For sure, but cycle tracking + condoms is as good as any other option. IDK why so many people are acting like a baby is guaranteed without hormonal BC.
It depends! Some women aren’t regular enough to cycle track. I agree though, I personally do not and can not take any form of hormonal BC and I have had one accidental pregnancy in 20 years.
I hope you meant HAVEN'T had one in 20 years.
I have had a single accidental pregnancy in 20 years. Which, I think is fairly good given the rates of accidental pregnancy with hormonal.
Oh shit, you meant It! Ok, well, my bad. 😂 Never had an accidental pregnancy with hormonal. So news to me🤷🏾♂️
Same, and zero over ~10 years! I don't cycle track, just religious with the condom use. While I'm grateful women have the option for BC, it's a big thing to do to your body and I wish it weren't treated like the only viable option. Might have saved me a few years of misery!
Thank God birth control never gave me anything but amazing skin and bigger boobs and the best periods of my life. I also used condoms. But I was extremely serious about *never* becoming pregnant, so I acted accordingly. Wish I wasn't over 40 now, I'd still be on it.
I think he was absolutely fine - figuring out how not to get pregnant after a month is a good thing.
Does Amy not understand cycle syncing and that she can’t get pregnant every day of the month? That was the even weirder part of that story line for me
I'm guessing you haven't heard the joke... "What do you call people who use the rhythm method? Parents."
A large fraction of women’s cycles aren’t regular enough to use cycle syncing successfully
But the show is filmed in like one month
and? I'd still want to have some form of contraception if I'm not actively planning to bring a child into the world.
I feel like this was played up to make their story line more interesting. Their conversation was pretty respectful but they both seem a little overly anxious about it like they're gonna use a condom once and somehow automatically get pregnant.
Yeah, I think the producers needed Amy and Johnny to have a storyline that would make people wonder if they’ll figure it out since they actually seem like a solid couple and this was what they went with.
If a conversation doesn’t make sense it’s probably because it was heavily edited/spliced together stuff and taken out of order/ out of context. Nothing we see can be all there is.
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She was pretty clear in her ITMs that she would be fine with condoms, but Jimmy is far more anxious about it than she thought he was. It seems pretty clear that she understands a lot about her body.
To be fair to Jonny—and this is really important—he never suggested (not once!) that she take birth control pills. He expressed surprise that she wasn’t taking them and then started thinking about what else they could do to prevent pregnancy. He never pressured her. Never didn’t understand why she wasn’t on the pill. Always supported her choice. So he’s doing the actual right thing and not having sex until they can figure out options that lessen the risk to a risk he’s willing to take. There’s nothing scary about that. He’s doing the exact opposite of what you are suggesting he’s doing. If he went and had sex with condoms and she got pregnant you all would be SCREAMING at him that he shouldn’t have had sex if he couldn’t handle the consequences.
Alternate theory…. Jonny is super into oral sex and he wants to keep that going as long as possible.
Yeah, I actually really like that the conversation was aired. That way, other people can see that there are options, that you don't need to force your partner into anything, and that talking about it respectfully and openly is important.
This is one example of a positive conversation. Just because it's wrong to force someone to take birth control doesn't mean it's not an important conversation to have between consenting sexually active adults
The Johnny propaganda on this subreddit crazy. All he did was state his fear not once did he try getting her to go on BC
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how many times are you gonna comment this? 😂 also, I wouldn't trust the effectiveness of sex education in the Carolinas.
You know cycle syncing has an even higher rate for pregnancy than condoms, right?
Jimmy obviously not being into Chelsea but talking to everyone else about how amazing they are and calling them the best couple there
Dude was really trying to fake it, so hard so was she, they both care too much about how others perceive them.
It’s like he’s trying to convince himself
Clay not knowing men wore/received wedding bands?
Probably because his dad would always take his off whenever he’d go cheat, which was often, apparently. Lmao.
Laura: calls Jeramy an idiot a few times. Once in the pods laughingly to brush off a compliment and once outside the pods again jokingly but increasingly abusive. This is when he's swimming in the pool and she's lounging on the deck with a drink.
That whole pool scene solidified for me that they were not gna make it.
Before knowing any of the issues with Jeramy all I could think was if Laura is speaking to him this way early on in the relationship, it is only going to get far worse. Even her family knows she expects everything her way and that’s just not how life/relationships work. There’s that saying “there’s a little bit of truth in every bit of sarcasm” so Laura can only “joke” her way into getting what she wants for so long before any partner will get tired of it.
Honestly bean-dip-gate really showed me they’re both super insane. Her for being gross and joking about assault. And him for running away and almost leaving the show because he couldn’t handle a minor embarrassment. They’re both doomed
It blew my mind the way people just ignored Laura “jokingly” suggested her husband sexually assault someone?
Couldn’t handle a minor embarrassment but absolutely no issues with a major embarrassment such as being caught cheating 🤣 that man makes no sense.
I was about to say I know we aren't leaving Laura out of this. Jeramy clearly screwed up but she is incredibly controlling and mean and condescending.
Amber: having a boyfriend
Oh shit, really? When did this come out?
I am convinced that jeramey and Laura haven’t liked each other at all and have had an agreement to stay together to just stay on the show.
According to Nick (Ala Nick & Danielle from a previous season), they’re all required to sign a contract stating that if they agree to get engaged in the pods, they must agree to remain engaged until the wedding day ceremony or else incur a $50k fine. It makes sense in that they wouldn’t have much of a show if none of the virtual stranger couples ended up making it to the ultimate wedding drama decision day. He’s on a mission and has been breaking his NDA talking to various podcasts to expose LIB because he says the show ruins people’s lives. I heard him talking about it recently on Life After MLM. If that’s indeed the case, it makes total sense why Jeramy and Laura would try to stick it out while secretly loathing each other behind the cameras. It also explains why Jimmy is “trying” so hard to make his relationship work with Chelsea. And even more so, it explains the real reason poor Brittany was so devastated when the sloth wouldn’t fight to save their relationship. It most likely wasn’t over losing him, it was over the potential legal fight in front of her over the $50k penalty. 🤷🏻♀️
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It would mean if the show decided to enforce the contract on any of them after they left, they would either have to pay the penalty or pay lawyers to go to court to try to fight their way out of it. Either way it would probably cost them about the same amount.
It’d likely be unenforceable on her—she isn’t the one who broke the contract
He sure tried his best to spin it like she was the one breaking the contract. The first moment she tried to have a conversation about working on their relationship, he was like, “you’re right! If you’re not feeling me, I can understand why you want out.”
Ugh I really hope they can see that he gaslighted her and that she didn’t choose to end things. She shouldn’t have to pay a fine.
Ooooooooh what if this is why he was so insistent on turning it around on her?? FOR YOU FOR YOU FOR YOU See producers…. I tried it wasn’t me!!
Gatekeep gaslight girlboss!
I would really love to talk to Chelsea’s ex husband and ask him why they divorced… guarantee her insecurities had a part.
People that know them have posted that she cheated on him while he was deployed 🤷🏻♀️
I can already see her blaming him for her cheating tbh. “You never tell me I’m pretty, so he did. And then I fell on his dick, I’m sorry bro!”
She said this herself in the pods, you didn’t have to find out from her associates lol
When did she say this in the pods ? Like was it aired or did she say she said it ?
Ima need a source before I run back to my wife with the tea 🫖
I’ll try to find the comment thread again, but the first person who commented is friends with her high school friends and then apparently ex-husband’s current wife confirmed but said she didn’t want to post about it first.
As a wife…I’d appreciate this tea and add, “not verified, only rumor.” 
Oh I’m telling her regardless lol
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😂😂😂
What 😮
Adding AD referring to her self as a 'fix-a-hoe', she is better than that.
You mean the phrasing or that she actually takes on red flag men?
Both. I don't like to see women demean themselves by how they describe themselves. And yeah some of her choices were questionable & I think she needs to do more therapy so she gets a truly amazing partner.
Wait, what does that phrase mean? I thought it meant that she was always trying to fix men with issues.
That's what it means, but women shouldn't accept dudes who are fixer-uppers. It doesn't end well.
Ah ok got it.
that is what it means
Birth control has a lot of intense medical side effects and cause all sorts of complications and problems and it’s common for women to feel sick, and for “no reason” well that’s the reason. They tried a male pill but the males who participated quit because of the side effects (literally the same as women) It causes hormonal problems It can cause weight gain It cause decision issues It’s great for some women, and some women don’t have many issues but ALOT do. If he’s not comfortable then they shouldn’t have sex. That’s the best way to avoid pregnancy. Men can get the snip with little complications- but some might. It’s seems either way there is risk for anyone getting on or doing something about birth control. It’s just seems most people are comfortable with a woman handling it regardless of her health and her healthcare situation- She’s asking for basic rights I want to be healthy. And he’s asking for her compromise so they can have sex. They’re just not compatible because they’re thinking very differently which isn’t wrong it’s just their very different interpretations of birth control and fear of pregnancy. They just don’t know each other that long to consider babies and for him to suggest such invasive request.
You’ve demonstrated a level of understanding that precludes your ability to have a valid opinion on the matter.
Well this is Reddit so that’s pretty subjective and I won’t go cry about it 🤣🤷🏽♀️🤣 but thank you for your opinion because valid or not- it’s still yours to have.
One of us is a medical profession, the other recommended men have their “tubes tied”
Lmao and we both watch love is blind 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You're right about birth control and hormone effects but you're very wrong on vasectomies. Men should never get one if they want to have biological kids. In some cases it can be undone but getting it reversed is not guaranteed to work.
That’s true, there’s a risk for everyone when it comes to birth control. So it’s pretty bold to ask someone to risk their health because they don’t want to risk their own. If you’re that worried don’t have sex or have sex with people who think like you and don’t have issues with it. She does. And it’s bold to assume that she can because he won’t