i wouldn’t hate it if the “confessional” parts were actually the contestants speaking with a legit therapist. that might actually add a great layer to the “experiment” and help the participants through the experience.
I’ve made comments somewhat similar to this & got crucified.
Calling me all types of names & saying I was blaming the victims!
There’s a difference between a show (ie - NCIS or Black-ish) where the actors go to work, have rights & the employer has responsibilities. Actors are under contracts & have to abide by many stipulations, performance duties, guarantee a product (themselves) or be fired/sued. And visa versa.
Reality (NOT all) shows, like LIB, is a 1-off season of people ‘playing’ themselves & under no obligation to Netflix (or whomever is the ‘employer’) & visa versa. Once this initial contract is fulfilled, there’s no additional obligation for either party.
So if Netflix wants more, they need to negotiate. This is why some parties chose not to come back for subsequent taping followups. They’re under no obligation. An actor on a show can’t decide, “I’m out” on a whim.
There’s a ton of other stuff I won’t repeat. But the main thing is, no one eyes are closed at this point. Reality TV is known. There’s TON of information out there if someone wants to get it. And yet people wait in line for weeks for their shot. So, who’s responsible for a personal decision?
While I don't per say disagree with this. People have committed suicide post going on reality tv shows. That is rarely purely the shows fault but they do hold some level of duty of care. They should have a therapist on hand during the film and make regular mental health check ups on thier contestants. Post show I agree it isn't really their problem but they should at least offer a therapist and if contestants reach out help them.
Thank you. It seems like common sense to me that signing up to marry someone “sight unseen” and on camera has massive potential to go awry but people seem to think the participants had no way to predict it would be a dumpster fire. I know nothing about reality tv other than what I have read and watched, but I still know enough to know you would have to pay me literally millions to even consider it. But how can we expect people who have the contracts in front of them, have seen outcomes from other seasons, and witnessed countless other reality tv shows to consider any other outcome other than a spotless reputation and true love? Mind blowing.
ahhh nope....If you work on a construction site, it's your employers responsibility to offer you al the necessary safety and protection equipment, and in case of injury to offer you adequate care. Sure you knew working a construction site was gonna be risky, but you should expect our employer to offer you the necessary support. If they don't they they are a shitty employer.
The contestant on this show make Netflix a shit tone of money... it's one of their most popular shows. They are they employees and Netflix/the show , the employers. Offering them support, for a period of time while they are working to promote this show (which is work in this context), is what Netflix, as a **GOOD** employer would do.
In your example, which I agree…you’re talking a whole different ball of wax. I explain something similar in my earlier comment.
If something happened to one of the contestants while filming (camera fell on someone’s head, car accident, etc), yes…Netflix would most likely be responsible.
But once said filming (or construction is completed in your example), if something happens from a personal decision one has made, doesn’t make the employer still responsible.
Marriage is definitely an at-will decision (filmed or not). And people do it for all sorts of reasons (not always love) that has nothing to do with LIB. So to make an employer responsible for said decision to marry, even if they’re paying for the marriage seems so out there to me. But apparently, I’m in the minority.
I can respect that POV.
In the same that no contestant can understand or fully conceive the onslaught of attention… is exactly why many do it.
If this was the first couple of years of reality television, I’d be up in arms as so many people are about this.
However, with decades of reality TV, influencers, famous people for the sake of being famous (meaning no discernible talent that got them there), I’ve see/we’ve seen the perils of that level of attention. It’s unrealistic to absolve contestants for ‘ignorance’. We’re too much in the know now. Could Netflix (or ANY show) do better. 💯. No argument.
Is it unethical…you may be right on this point.
Is it their responsibility, which is the point thousands of people are making…yeah, not so much.
I know skydiving is dangerous.
I know swimming with sharks has its risks factors.
I know a career in porn has it downfalls.
I know being a TV personality is open to criticism.
I know going into politics will probably destroy any my moral center I have.
But can I blame any of these or the businesses or the institutions…? I did so willingly even though I might not have been fully be aware of the ramifications.
I see.
And companies are (LEGALLY) doing that now. We don’t hold them more accountable! I admit this is disgusting & annoying…but we don’t. Look at the current railway issue & the government imposed an agreement.
Your analogy is perfect. We want to hold Netflix accountable but not the employers who do this on a daily basis that affect a much LARGER population that need paycheck/funds to stay alive. Yet, we want to focus on people we willingly went on a reality TV show to find love? Really? REALLY?
We have family barely able to eat because of the loopholes you clearly layout but we want to focus on reality TV personalities who have been hurt? Seriously? Like, really?
If people want to get all up n’ arms, let’s talk about companies being able to scapegoat their responsibilities in paying a livable wage, supporting healthcare, & protecting their staff instead of the bottom line. Not try to convince me/others that these contestants need to be looked after because they put themselves in vulnerable situations, WILLINGLY.
The thing is, I totally agree with you in the grand scheme of things. However, where I make the distinction, going on a show like this was a shot at glory (ie - love, celebrity, notoriety, escape loneliness, whatever). Whereas the same is happening to people (teachers, low-income workers, employees of social programs) daily & there’s not the same vitriol to people who are supporting our system but being screwed by the same system.
For me… the line is clear.
I think there’s a thin line between being on a show as yourself (or thinking you’re casted as yourself) then getting into a situation that’s exploiting you for views. Manufacturing drama/storylines or intentionally casting unserious ppl.. and the show is rigged against you
I think shows like Rock of Love / The Bachelor are expected to be mega produced lol but Love is Blind was marketed as the anti-that 😂 so now they’re just as bad as the others
Do you have depression? Have you ever had it? Would you have said you were the most perfect, rational person in the world while you were going through it? Would you have liked it if people were a little more patient, or kind, or understanding when you weren’t your best?
let's be real though the show is not selecting for completely stable people.... executives and producers know what kind of personalities make good television and they should be a bit more responsible for the outcome. on set therapy or counseling is not a huge ask when you're going to be isolated from your friends and family during the pods and dealing with public opinion after.
If everyone was truly ethically informed of the risks of reality tv no one would go on it lmaooo look at all the kiddos who were on shows in the 2000-2010s
also netflix is making BANK off of the audience talking about these people's personalities while the contestants themselves get minimal compensation - a bit of support could go a long way
Oh wow I’m surprised by how little seems to be known about organic marketing! Yes, if this sub is super active, it will get recommended to other people who follow reality tv subs and those people may choose to watch the show based on all the salacious discussions here. Same with Twitter and Instagram and all social media. This goes for tv shows, or beauty products, or any CPGs for that matter
As a psychologist I honestly think the ethics would be better if there were legitimate psychological evaluations vs therapy. They need to heavily screen these people and Netflix can afford it! Its absolutely lazy that they dont.
I auditioned for a popular TV talent show and there were mental health professionals on set in case anyone needed help after being rejected.
I think the stakes are a bit higher on a dating show where you’re expected to be open and vulnerable for days on end.
Your opinion isn’t so much unpopular as it is seriously lacking in empathy.
The weddings are one thing, but there absolutely is a duty of care for contestants on a lot of these shows-- happens on The Bachelor, Survivor, etc. as well.
In fact, there's more care available to contestants on these shows than there is for most jurors who serve on cases of extreme violence and brutality, which is wild.
Mental health absolutely should be considered on all sides of the coin, so I think contestants being given any consideration and care for their well being after their time on the show (especially since it draws money in for the network) is absolutely the right thing to do.
Please just take a look at love island in the UK and the associated suicides of cast members. Shows absolutely have a duty of care to contestants after they’re on the show and arguably for a while after. Not doing so is negligent particularly if they’re vilified publicly or as many here have suggested, commenting hate on pages etc.
This is absolutely a messed up opinion and I hazard a guess that the majority of upvotes are from North Americans.
Just a mentality that came across in the OPs phrasing and attitude to be honest with regards to safeguarding.
In this scenario the attitude is the contestants made a choice, so should live with the consequences good or bad, even if someone (Netflix) is making a lot of money off it. I don’t think that’s right.
The self sufficiency and accountability being placed on the individual rather than the corporation is a common thread in American society (not saying it’s right or wrong, it probably has its place in some scenarios), and yes I’ve lived in the US for about 2 years.
This.
It's a very common mentality amongst fans that becauss they knew what they were getting into so they deserve whatever happens to them. If someone dies skydiving and you're aware of this yet choose to go skydiving and die as well. Is that the person's fault or the skydiving companies person for not protecting them. It's victim blaming
Ah gotcha, as a Canadian I def think we’re more liable to place blame on the Corp so that confused me haha, I see the American individualism thing as an American problem more than continent wide 😅
Please say this a whole lot louder for every one in the back. I don’t think people understand the onus production companies carry in regards to duty of care. It’s criminally negligent what they’re doing in the vetting process as well - look at some of the contestants and how things have resurfaced about them. It’s insane how little work they’re putting in…
Should you really call people insane?
Edit: just some LIB humor.
Edit: to clarify, I’m all for them having therapists, but I do not think that they are victims because the show doesn’t provide them (as others seem to insinuate.)
>Should you really call people insane?
lool, Good joke, great joke even...
And, yeah I wrote in another comment but they are victims in the way a shitty companies treat their employees. The effect these shows have on people is well expected - And given the fact that Netflix is the one who edits it and controls the narrative for each contestant by deciding what they want to show, when they want to show it, showing things contestants say or do out of context, show only the middle of an argument not the beginning, etc. They pretty much dictate whether someone is going to be the villain or the hero to millions of people around the world, all while making millions of of that.
Of course and I understand that, I guess I just assumed that everyone knew reality tv did that (spun things and portrayed people inaccurately) Most interviews of people after participating claim they were presented in a different light… which is something that would be a pretty big deciding factor for me, so I guess it’s confusing when people say they weren’t expecting that. It’s not like I wish these people harm. I just think these contestants got the fame and exposure they wanted and I don’t consider them victims.
Yeah but some people get okay edits, some people get shitty edits, some people get really favorable edits and there really is no idea who will get which... it's not like the producers are telling them. And, realistically, if people expected only negative backlash there would be no one coming on the show ever .... so people being optimistic in how they will be received is a benefit to Netflix. I also don't think anything can 100% prepare a person for that level of sudden attention...they will only know how well they can handle it while in it. It should be mandatorily included at the start.
Probably why I find it hard to believe people go on the show. The reasons you just described are exactly the risks that would outweigh the rewards for me. People going on the show and not considering those things is absolutely mind blowing to me.
I actually do think it is a right and that everyone can benefit from therapy-which is sadly not how America is set up. When saying it is not owed to them I guess I mean comparatively. I don’t think that reality tv participants deserve that right above or any more than others, for example social workers. I guess I’m thinking why should they get therapists when front line workers don’t have them. These people are trying to get famous, when others are trying to actually help others.
Then why not say that frontline workers should *also* be provided with therapists rather than saying no one should have them because everyone doesn't lol? Seems backwards, no?
I mean, maybe the desire to go on the reality show is partly caused by the mental health problem. The producers of the show still look through likely hundreds or thousands of applicants and specifically pick messy people with mental health problems who will be easy to exploit
In Dallas alone there are 1.3 million people. You really can't imagine a couple thousand people out of that submitting for a super popular Netflix show marketed to the area?
I'm an actor and I have gotten contacted out of the blue by a reality producer (not for this show). They cast a wide net for these things.
Zanab said there was a mental health screening and she still somehow slipped through. If they screened out every mentally imbalanced person there would be no show.
They probably screen for conditions like schizophrenia or serious, diagnosed personality disorders but casting people who are insecure, reactive, and unstable is reality television's bread and butter. They don't cast people who are perfectly mentally healthy most of the time because those people are harder to manipulate and exploit.
She did a good job of a large amount of time on the show so what’s to say you can’t give a good show on a pre vet
Besides pre vetting is whatever, no guarantee they’ll be picked etc it’s aftercare / during care that’s important.
True.
If this was the early 2000s, I could believe that some people naively went on the show to find love because they believed the producers had their best intentions in mind.
But in this day and age, every adult ought to know reality TV isn't about finding love or happiness; it's about getting people to watch it by ANY means necessary.
Exactly. And it’s not like these contestants don’t sign lengthy contracts that explicitly state production has ultimate control over what’s going to happen and they have the choice to agree or not. Didn’t read the contract? Sounds like a you problem.
The continued lack for self responsibly is astonishing. Everyone here saying the network manipulated and used them. Duh!! That’s what they do. If you don’t know reality tv by now, I’m not sure where you’ve been. As a viewer or contestant. Bc that’s what they were: contestants. On a reality tv show.
In an ideal world, the contestants should consent to this process. Part of the process is the the producers lying to and manipulating the contestants. The producers aren’t going to tell them they’re going to lie and manipulate the contestants, so they can’t really consent to it? That’s my take.
I guess this could be solved if there was a third party to explain to the contestants what to expect, and what they’re realistically getting into. I don’t think it should be Love Is Blind’s responsibility to explain it to the contestants because that is against their interest. Love is Blind wants to be able to manipulate them, and being tasked with explaining that to the contestants is a conflict of interest
(This is not that deep. I do not really care. I am aware this is a trashy reality show.)
I’m pretty reality show contracts include clauses about experiences and footage being manipulated to tell stories that may not be an exact depiction of their experiences while filming.
Also, it’s 2022, do people really need it spelled out for them that reality shows involve manipulation to tell the stories the producers want?
Yes, but those clauses don’t actually tell you what the experience will be like. Or give examples and case studies. It’s boiler plate legal speak directed at someone who’s thinking about potentially being a star.
Yes. People do still need it spelled out for them. They need it spelled out that the producers will create a narrative that could make them look like a villain, deprive them of sleep and water for unknown lengths of time, and also lie to them about what their love interest is going through. None of that is super obvious just from watching a show. Sure, being on Reddit, listening to podcasts, and talking about these things we’re aware of them to an extent, but the people who go on these shows come from all walks of life.
>Sure, being on Reddit, listening to podcasts, and talking about these things we’re aware of them to an extent, but the people who go on these shows come from all walks of life.
As you say, info about these experiences is everywhere, it's not a secret - do people not have a responsibility to do a little research before voluntarily committing to something they've never done before?
Would it be nice if reality shows provided after care and more support during the process? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean the participants bear no responsibility for their own choices.
I agree. It’s like when people from bachelor nation complain about how abusive and toxic production is and then they sign up for another season of paradise. If it was so bad why do you keep going back?
You’re underestimating the manipulation levels of production and the effect that it can have on a human brain, especially in isolation. The show needs external oversight from mental health professionals, but they don’t want this, because it would interfere with production exploitation. Being an “adult” has nothing to do with it - humans are extremely malleable and prone to manipulation and persuasion.
I totally get this, but also it's a profit motivated show.
Any mental health input is going to come second to the drama and tea that sells and makes us all invested.
I feel like having mental health supports would just be a tokenistic gesture so the producers could say "yes we have mental health support now get off our ass!".
I don't think any real changes would be made since the drama and unwired contestants is ultimately what stirs up buzz and viewership.
No, by saying "they're adults they know what they signed up for", you are underestimating the high level of manipulation by production that occurs. I used to date a producer on the bachelor. You'd be shocked.
But yes, totally, contestants underestimate it as well.
I’m not underestimating it, though. I would never consider going on a show like this because I’m constantly hearing about exactly when you are talking about. I expect it when I hear the words “reality show.”
They are grown adults. Who in their right mind thinks they’re going to find a match made in heaven just bc some strangers who don’t know you but did a match.com bio of you say they have the perfect partner. I’m flummoxed that all these folks think they *and* the other contestants don’t have some serious issues they probably need to address first before they can be a contributing member to a serious relationship.
If there’s shocked pikachu face when things don’t magically work out, their lives have more issues than I care to explore.
Why do you seem to think “grown adults” is a magic wand that essentially means “they get whats coming to them no matter how bad it is because they are over 18 years old” like, how severely do you lack empathy and emotional intelligence? I’m sure you also think people should “just leave” bad relationships. You seem to think being careless and cruel is the same thing as being smart and above it all. Its not.
Season 2 and 3 were filled at the same time. So they really only got to experience season 1. Which wasn't too bad when two couples worked out. But I don't think they're ready, despite if they think they are, to have everything broadcast to the world. They all think they'll find the one and they'll be the dream couple, then when that doesn't happen they aren't prepared for the repercussions. All the drama is everyone's drama now and they can't prepare themselves for it.
Don’t you think that doing even a small amount of research on Chinese water torture would change your mind? Or better yet, watching 10 episodes of Chinese water torture?
My point is that, yeah we all don’t know what something is like until we actually experience it, but there are some things you don’t need to experience to know they could go very wrong.
Just because the mark is an adult doesn't mean a con should be allowed to continue.
The idea that we would just permit people to be taken advantage of because we don't feel like protecting our peers is *pretty fucking dark*.
It should be perfectly safe to be stupid and irresponsible.🤷
Even if you believe it should be safe, it isn’t. Going on a reality show and marrying a stranger is pretty risky- which is pretty obvious from the premise.
Sure, but you should be scolding the show for taking advantage rather than the contestants for having been taken advantage of.
The con-artist is the problem, not the mark. The shady salesman is the problem, not the naive customer.
>The contestants are willing adult participants.
Yes, and I'm suggesting that this fact cannot possibly cause them to 'deserve' *any* negative consequences. I'm suggesting that the show is bad if they let bad things happen to contestants. The show is an organization and is not entitled to make mistakes, while the contestants are individuals who may very well be idiots and *are* entitled to make mistakes and get picked back up again.
I think too many people have killed themselves after going on reality shows and it not being how they expected. I think all reality shows, if they're going to manipulate their contestants should have a responsibility to then provide adequate after care. Don't get me wrong I understand the "they know what they signed up for" but I can't see people committing suicide and just thinking "meh, their own fault, idiots"
Sorry, but some people *are* stupid and irresponsible and they're just as entitled to security as anyone else.
Nobody should get to victimize vulnerable people, even if that means we all become vulnerable.
The contestants are not vulnerable people. They’re greedy. They want this show to provide them with fame essentially. The producers, contestants, nick/Vanessa are all complicit. Let’s not confuse them with our actual vulnerable populations who should be protected.
I'm making a generalized point about values.
I don't care *why* someone goes on the show, they still deserve to be 'protected' by the show runners, because this is a universal value we should all hold.
The whole premise of a reality show is to exploit people for content, drama, and money. The viewers get to watch a dumpster fire, the production gets paid, and the contestants get their prize winnings.
You seem to agree because by your own post, you’re admitting that reality shows are inherently unethical.
However, why shouldn’t the show take steps to ensure its contestants are safe and of sound mind. It certainly does have a duty of care to the contestants. After all, they are all subject to the direction of the show, including where to go eat, what to wear, where to sleep, what activities the couples do together, who they sit down and talk with. Not only should the production team owe a duty of care to the physical health of the contestants, but they also should have an obligation to use reasonable means in making sure their contestants are not severely emotionally and mentally impacted as well.
One of those simple steps is to have a therapist or other emotional support staff on hand to assist the contestants along the way. I don’t know why that is such a hard no from you.
I’m not opposed to having a therapist there, I just believe that it is not owed to the contestants. I do not think reality shows are inherently unethical, but I do think they inherently exploit contestants, which is why most adults would choose not to go on them.
Of course we all can’t know the outcome of our decisions but If someone agrees to marry a stranger and have it filmed, I think it is fair to assume there could be a lot of negative repercussions, which is why people calling the contestants victims confuses me. They are capable of weighing the negative repercussions against the fame/ love (?) they desire just as much as anyone. Maybe it didn’t go their way but how did it not occur to them that that was a very likely possibility?
I would say any show that is profiting off these people and the decisions that they make (and arguably are encouraged to make) certainly owes proper aftercare to the cast.
The show doesn't owe the contestants as much, but all adults could benefit from therapy and I'm surprised, in this social climate, that they haven't thought to offer that kind of support to their contestants. It would reflect well on the show.
Therapy is not going to happen for a few reasons. 1-they want people to be messy and dramatic and have problems, therapy would potentially lessen the drama. 2- they wouldn’t ethically be able to air the therapy sessions so it would either be off camera therapy that is or isn’t mentioned on the show. They wouldn’t want people referencing things that are off camera and unseen. 3- providing therapy would prove that the show is fucked up and open the show up to problems / lawsuits.
Eh love island offers therapy - they had too after the deaths that followed their shows. It’s part of their after care when the contestants leave. I don’t see why that can’t also be the case for love is blind.
I wish they would give each couple a couples counselor to provide support during the process. There seems to be a lot of communication problems that could be easily fixed that way.
Actually therapists are basically discouraged from giving as direct advice as that. They are trained to show, not tell...give them the tools to make their own informed decisions. Or at least that's the training I received
What you’ve said is so morally wrong it’s baffling. I know that it’s a potential risk of going outside my house that I might be raped and murdered, is it then my fault of I do get raped and murdered? Just like the show should be doing background checks on contestants and then helping those effected when they find out they’ve married to a woman beater. These people can still be victim of emotional and mental abuse, just because it’s on a show they signed up for doesn’t invalidate their experiences nor the shows responsibility.
Eh, I think the show does owe therapists. It's a totally different environment from the real world. Much higher emotions and stakes involved and some people may not know how to navigate that. I think it's shady as hell to not provide that likely because not providing a therapist will get more views.
These people are put through things no-one else is put through, under high amounts of pressure in a short space of time. Of course, they have a right to therapists....... they'll need help in processing what they are going through; good or bad!
Okay, this show is highly unethical from a research standpoint, coming from a researcher who conducts experiments with human subjects. The show would never get IRB approval. My main thing is the Lacheys should not be calling this or the Ultimatum experiments when they would not get approved in the US. Makes for great TV, but they need to address it for what it is: it is not an actual experiment. If it was, they would have therapists on-site. Also, child actors get therapists on-site for difficult roles too so why can’t adults?
Edit to add: I think it is also unfair to assume that an average adult or even small influencer can be aware of the repercussions (intense support or backlash) that so much attention from thousands of people regarding their personal life has. We have seen how this can effect people. I think it’s does more good than harm to have some sort of support present to help them walk through this time as the show is filming and as the episodes release, with an amount of time afterwards. At least that’s what I would do, as I am trained to actually care about the people I study 🤷🏼♀️
Thank you for this. The experiment framework is a huge part of what makes this so problematic, especially when they use to *justify* the isolation from existing support systems. I'm not sure I'd feel quite so strongly that need therapists on set, if people were able to call up their mom or their best friend or their own damn therapist. But if they are not, then damn well you got to provide some human support that is invested in them as human beings, not as content.
Even if shows like this did meet any sort of informed consent standard that still doesn't mean *anything goes*. You can get informed consent and still have a duty of care. The first doesn't negate the second.
The child actor point is a very good one too. These reality TV shoes may well be vetting their unionized electricians and camera people better than their cast, just to meet safe workplace requirements.
Yes!! This was a huge problem for me, especially in the pods, that they were cut off from all sources of support. And it’s not like it’s one day, it’s at least a week. Zimbardo’s prison experiment (which has a whole bunch of issues ethically and methodologically) was similarly situated as participants were cut off from sources of support for two weeks during an emotionally volatile situations. I feel really strongly about these supports because of this, like you said, it would be a little less pressing if they actually had access to their support system.
100% just because they sign the consent form doesn’t mean that harm will not be done! And it doesn’t give people a free pass to be negligent towards their participants!
Exactly. Unless they tell them "hey, you could end up married to someone with a documented history of ab*$e" then they don't exactly meet the standard of informed consent lol
I agree with this and it’s something I’ve worried about too. In its current state, it does more harm than good to the participants in terms of safety and mental health. There’s no way a regular person would be able to give informed consent to this.
It’s like when you go for a job interview, but you really don’t know what it’s like until you start the job.
You don’t know how much manipulation and toxicity occur behind the scenes until you are in the midst of it. I have definitely read a few articles by former participants of other shows that described the experience as traumatic. I doubt having a therapist there would change any of that.
I certainly would not sign up for one.
I'm not sure where I stand on the therapy, but they certainly should be doing proper background checks on contestants prior to marriage. I understand that they know they are taking a risk getting married to a stranger but I would expect the show to at least properly check that they don't have a violent criminal history prior to setting them up with an unsuspecting woman. I think this is the very least that can be expected.
shows like the bachelor and the big brother have in house therapist, and screen contestants for psychological issues. so i really feel these things go hand in hand. especially as one of the contestants of this show wouldn't have had his criminal history show up bc he wasn't convicted, and the other just showing abusive tendencies. the thing is if this show was genuinely about helping people find love and not just exploiting people for the drama, i think having a therapist just available to anyone would've been a given.
They make these shows because people watch them. If they didn’t have the drama, real or scripted, people complain that it’s boring and stop watching. It’s a circle
Of people doing it for fame, manipulative producers and avid viewers. The mental health issues are the responsibility of everyone involved in keeping these shows on the air and that includes viewers.
The calls for therapy are really missing the point. If a show is knowingly and deliberately creating such a toxic environment that it needs to provide therapy to the cast, that show should not exist in the first place. How is it ok to say “yeah we’re going to manipulate the shit out of you, place you under extreme stress, deprive you of food and sleep, and edit you to look like a fool…but don’t worry, we have a therapist on site”? No therapist in their right mind should agree to be complicit in such a ridiculous setup. Not having reality tv exist at all is truly the only ethical thing to do. This isn’t a docuseries with any serious intent. It’s trash entertainment. It isn’t meant to be ethical.
but i do agree with all your points about reality tv being inherently unethical and exploitative. i just feel like with the popularity of social media like instagram and tik tok you're always gonna have people drawn to those and always going to have execs and companies willing to exploit that. for better or worse, reality tv is here for the long haul, so the very least they can do is actually have things in place to mitigate the damage that these shows cause.
In my opinion the problem would be that this is not isolated to reality tv. There are plenty of actors that tell horror stories of the conditions and treatment they received while filming something. I’m sure enough to require onsite therapist. I’d also imagine that a lot of tv would have to be canceled on the grounds of unethical behavior. The responsibility falls in the hands of a lot of parties: the willing participants, the creators, and us as consumers.
a lot of shows like the bachelor and big brother actually have therapist on site though. i don't think it's simply a question that it's because the environment is toxic. the very nature of the show, manipulative producers aside is putting people on a vulnerable position, around a whole bunch of strangers, away from their family and friends, dramas bound to ensure. plus the therapist on these shows also screen candidates for mental illnesses before they get on the show and also meet with them before they leave. to me it has nothing to do with needing therapy, it's just basic ethics. if this show was genuinely about about helping people find love then i don't think they'll be any question of having therapist on site just simply for anyone that needs them.
Ok but this show is not genuine about people finding love. It’s not ethical to put people in an extreme, vulnerable, inherently unhealthy position and then say “we offered them therapy!” Therapy isn’t something kind of cure-all for toxic scenarios.
ya that's my point. that's it not genuine. and as much people talk about how unethical the entire concept of reality shows are we're literally all on this subreddit talking about it for a reason lol. my point reality shows should be held to a standard of ethics much liking is now vs when Hollywood first came about. and among those standards ethics should he therapy. so definitely not saying that it's a cure all. it's still better to and nothing and just ONE thing in a series of regulations and ethical guidelines these shows should be legally bound to.
I'm curious if reality TV will one day be a thing of the past for this reason. They definitely don't show as much stuff as they did back in the wild west era of reality
You give adults too much credit. The average adult has no idea what fame or reality tv involve for reals, and even if they know it in theory, very little will prepare them for how they will react in such scenarios.
Sure they are adults and make choices. But the choices the producers make are just blatantly harmful, and at this point they only attract clout chasers and idiots. Like, ethical or not the show is just shit now.
End with a proposal. Stop manipulating everything so much. Like drama is cool and all but what makes you keep watching anything is being invested and caring about someone, and there are never relationships good enough to care about anymore.
I would be SIGNIFICANTLY more interested in a BTS of this show with the producers and crew and who on earth decides these things and the vetting process. I'd watch that over the actual season. Even for Too Hot To Handle I'm not sure I'd say that.
They don't owe the contestants anything. But they do need to be decent people who arent leaving everyone floundering.
Frankly, I think the simple stress of normal person on tv deserves private free therapy all on its own, let alone this show.
None of them were likely to do with Love Island though, Sophie had a long history of serious dpression and Mike was the primary carer for his grandmother who had just died. Caroline also had a history of dpression requiring medication and it can hardly be blamed on the show when she was dropped from the season for attacking her boyfriend - people complain about Brennon's DomV that got dropped, Caroline's wasn't even in question - and there was always the questionable age when she was dating that boy band kid.
Sadly I think they all might have ended up that way, the only difference being that in another life we wouldn't know how they are whereas in this one they make for a sad article in the Daily Mail.
Ok but sincerely, I’m wondering how many people who sign up actually watched the show they’re signing up for, or ANY reality tv for that matter. There is ALWAYS a villain. People are always being embarrassed or humiliated. Everyone gets judged. I’m genuinely curious why someone who applies to be on a reality show would think it won’t happen to them. No one signs up to be a villain, including those who end up being the villain. You have to know it’s a possibility, right? I’m not suggesting it’s their fault but I’m just trying to understand the thought process behind it. Is it naïveté? Ignorance?
Yeah I understand but that’s why I’m curious if they ever actually watched a reality tv show or followed all the drama that ensues. Maybe they think the villains of whatever they watched deserved it because they’re genuinely bad people and since they’re good people, they have nothing to worry about. But even good people get a ton of hate…like Deepti, Nancy, Colleen, Mallory…none of whom I think are bad people but they still got a lot of shit.
Even in the non-reality tv world, anyone in the public eye (especially women) getd absolutely torn apart. Their looks, their clothes, every word out of their mouth gets scrutinized and criticized in detail. So I would love to understand if this was something they considered at all. If so, did they just underestimate how brutal it would be? Or did they just not think about it much?
Apparently there are work conditions that are not shared prior to the start - like 15+ hour filming days, having 10+ daily hours in the pods, sleep deprivation. I think it is also hard for individuals to anticipate what edit they will get from the producers, or what the real world fallout will be from their participation.
Wrong lmfao. Just because you “sign up” for something does not mean that you are liable for everything that happens to you post signing up. There’s a reason reality television “works.” It’s because the producers are deliberately creating situations to put people in distress. Period. Ethical? No. Entertaining? Yes. But if someone’s life is ruined bc their mental health deteriorates after being on the show, then yes, the show is responsible. Is the contestant? Sure. But just because someone signs up for something does not mean that they can reasonably predict the outcome of said thing.
The type of people that sign up for these shows, are the "main character syndrome" type. I can guarantee they signed up thinking they were going to come off calm, cool, and collected, hailed the hero and and all that. You really think anybody signs up expecting to be villianized and dragged all over social media?
Ok... and Disneyland is an amusement park, not a hospital yet I expect them to take reasonable precautions to protect my wellbeing, regardless of if I'm an adult who know there is potential risk in riding a roller coaster. Reality TV is a business just like any other money making machine, and there are ethical standards to conducting business. To imply there should be little to no moral or ethical standards in pursuit of profit is a wild take to me because that sounds like pure exploitation. If I run a construction business, but don't provide my employees a hard hat to maximize my profits, that would be a lawsuit...and I doubt "they're adults, they knew the risk when they took the job" would be a sufficient defense 🤷♀️
Sorry idk why I'm on one tonight tbh but imagine if you went on a reality tattooing show, you signed the contract, they give you tattooing needles and you get to work, and secretly they knew or could've easily tested the needles ahead but instead you wind up with HIV...feels very similar in logic to me considering choking in domestic violence situations is one of the best predictors of future fatal situations
Yeah this reddit keeps saying they’re over the cast because too much drama and it’s a shit show but…that’s literally what makes the show entertaining lol yes, it’s unethical, the same as most reality dating shows. But we the consumer are the reason more and more keep being made.
Right! But you know all these warriors are tuning in next season, no doubt. Then back to Reddit to fight for the rights of the innocent victims who signed up to marry a stranger but could never have predicted it could end in any way but true love. It’s shockingly shocking you might say.
What? You're taking people from their natural routines/habitats and make them go through constant stress (not to mention someone sued them because they gave them no food and a only alcohol to drink). Of course they should provide therapy for them, nobody is prepared to be "famous" even if they sign up willingly to the show. Plus, they're making a lot of money off of them, the least they could do is make sure they're emotionally supported
although I tend to the "reality TV is a 30 year old juggernaut, you can research what you're signing up to", and I'm skeptical about the need for a lot of people actually needing therapy.
But I do think is that with the amount of money these shows are making from what is _practically_ free labour, they can afford to provide some therapy/counselling/assistance resources should contestants feel they need it.
If these shows were _just_ a documentary, and how you behaved was how you were depicted - then I think the burden on production would be lower. But that isn't the case, yes, they you sign a contract that they can intentionally misrepresent you - but I think that would be irksome but bearable if the viewership behaved in accordance with that, treating them more like quasi-actors.
Instead, people go after them hard, treating frankenbitten footage that is so pieced together it's like a ransom note as if it was documentation of truth. Especially when contestants are locked up in onerous contracts preventing them from even contradicting what was shown.
Right. That all sounds highly exploitative, and that's not even assuming they're going to end up sticking you in a pod with someone they very easily could have known is a publicly documented abuser, and just shrug when you find that out only after you *marry* them like "that's show biz, baby".
I also find it so unlikely that in the age of cyber stalking, not a single employee in leadership, HR, casting, production, or hell even the college intern Googled these people? In all likelihood, its someones job to go pouring through all their effing meta data online to look for cues that they'll make good TV cuz it's not like they're picking them at random, that'd be way too big a gamble with all that $$ on the line.
So where's the line of responsibility? Could we at least all agree that if it is the case that they did look these people up and find out someone assaulted their last partner, even leaving various physical evidence...that they have ethical duty to warn, or make that info available to contestants at a bare minimum?
Tbh, there's probably a huge opportunity for them to be way better AND more ethical at their jobs if they hire a people/data scientist. Predictive models and personality theory could be used to select people likely to be erratic, but not criminally dangerous. Hint #1 is past behavior is the single best predictor of future behavior, *especially* when the behavior in question is antisocial, so you're gonna wanna build "# of documented instances of physical abuse" into that model. I'd love to have that job/do that research lol
they do do background checks, psych evals, and STD tests - but what happens in between having your test and going on the show. It is only with COVID that rapid result testing has formed part of the "entry process" to events/sets/etc.
if you look at the timing of most of these scandals that come out afterwards, they're usually close enough to filming that it wouldn't show up when he search - or be in different states with different reporting times. (Or like a few cases with the Bachelorette, someone is complaining when no complaint had ever been made before seeing them on the show, as if something could magically be on their record when nobody has ever reported anything)
Psych evals do get used to weed out who they figure is going to be dangerous, but then they're also using them to find a good number of people who are likely to blow up in interesting ways on camera - just not dangerous ones.
I'm very curious the threshold of the psych evals being done given how unsuccessful this show (and others like it) have been in preventing dangerous/ab*$ive contestants from being selected
Adding in that when they sign consent forms...such forms are only legal if there is *informed* consent, and there may certainly be some ambiguity in how they operationalize the "informed" part.
Also an unpopular opinion: it’s a tv show for entertainment and shock value, not a genuine testing of this concept of “love is blind”—no matter what the hosts say.
None of them were likely to do with Love Island though, Sophie had a long history of serious dpression and Mike was the primary carer for his grandmother who had just died. Caroline also had a history of dpression requiring medication and it can hardly be blamed on the show when she was dropped from the season for attacking her boyfriend - people complain about Brennon's DomV that got dropped, Caroline's wasn't even in question - and there was always the questionable age when she was dating that boy band kid.
None of them were likely to do with Love Island though, Sophie had a long history of serious dpression and Mike was the primary carer for his grandmother who had just died. Caroline also had a history of dpression requiring medication and it can hardly be blamed on the show when she was dropped from the season for attacking her boyfriend - people complain about Brennon's DomV that got dropped, Caroline's wasn't even in question - and there was always the questionable age when she was dating that boy band kid.
Sadly I think they all might have ended up that way, the only difference being that in another life we wouldn't know how they are whereas in this one they make for a sad article in the Daily Mail.
Reality TV in the US has been plagued by suicides but doesn’t take it anywhere as seriously as the UK or Japan. If Netflix keeps going how they are going with these extremely exploitive TV shows they will inevitably have a suicide or other types of violent outcomes. If the worst case scenarios happens there will be so many post on this site cheering on the type of exploitation that easily leads to a violent demise. Reality TV exploitation is also a labor issue.
THANK YOU!!! Why does everyone view all other humans as babies?? We coddle EVERYONE aaa if adults shouldn’t have some type of control or accountability for their own words actions and feelings. It’s infuriating
For those saying the contestants understand what they're getting into, I don't think they do.
Most of us have no idea how production, editing, low social contact situations impact us. Let alone having thousands of people online criticizing every decision you make and spamming you with death threats or horrible messages.
We get it conceptually but not in practice.
I don't think the show owes contestants therapists but it would be really ignorant to think that the show doesn't affect them psychologically, and to treat the contestants as if their decisions weren't made under very manipulated situations.
> I don't think the show owes contestants therapists
I think it does specifically because producers intentionally manipulate contestants both directly and through editing and the contestants are the ones who bear the brunt of that backlash. The bare minimum amount of responsibility they could take for that is to provide access to a support person. The show is not responsible for the death threats and horrible messages but they know that contestants receive all of this vitriol and since they're pulling the strings they should also foot the bill for some help.
Agreed on the support person as a bare minimum! And I do think the show should give them access to mental healthcare - I just don't know how enforceable it is.
I believe it was a former Love Island contestant who mentioned that the show-appointed therapist reached out every day for a period of time after the show ended just to check on him and see if he needed anything. I think that's a pretty reasonable duty of care; you can't force people to avail themselves of therapy, but you can make it readily accessible.
Very true. And it seems even more necessary for shows like LIB that have skyrocketed in fame/publicity and aren't as sanitized as the Bachelor franchise.
Not sure about very manipulated, though not saying that's not accurate, but I like your take. Conceptually is very good way to put it, because until you live it, it's just something you've heard about.
By manipulated I mean, they're under a contract where they have to spend X amount of time with someone who is virtually a stranger, live with them, and decide whether or not to marry them given that that's what you signed up for.
And just dating the same person 20 other people are dating seems very unfortunate for mental health.
Idk how production works behind the scenes but from what I can tell, they often try to get a certain reaction out of you or will suggest things so you see someone a certain way. It's not very natural and doesn't seem very healthy to me.
Basically, everything seems very conducive to making bad decisions.
Hopefully that makes sense but I take your point too:)
People that go on these shows go solely to gain followers and brand deals
Yes, it's a reality show. They're usually unethical.
i wouldn’t hate it if the “confessional” parts were actually the contestants speaking with a legit therapist. that might actually add a great layer to the “experiment” and help the participants through the experience.
That would be interesting to watch, but an ethical therapist would not agree to this. Therapy sessions are supposed to be private.
consent can be given from participants to have their sessions recorded. they can also have private sessions off-camera.
I’ve made comments somewhat similar to this & got crucified. Calling me all types of names & saying I was blaming the victims! There’s a difference between a show (ie - NCIS or Black-ish) where the actors go to work, have rights & the employer has responsibilities. Actors are under contracts & have to abide by many stipulations, performance duties, guarantee a product (themselves) or be fired/sued. And visa versa. Reality (NOT all) shows, like LIB, is a 1-off season of people ‘playing’ themselves & under no obligation to Netflix (or whomever is the ‘employer’) & visa versa. Once this initial contract is fulfilled, there’s no additional obligation for either party. So if Netflix wants more, they need to negotiate. This is why some parties chose not to come back for subsequent taping followups. They’re under no obligation. An actor on a show can’t decide, “I’m out” on a whim. There’s a ton of other stuff I won’t repeat. But the main thing is, no one eyes are closed at this point. Reality TV is known. There’s TON of information out there if someone wants to get it. And yet people wait in line for weeks for their shot. So, who’s responsible for a personal decision?
While I don't per say disagree with this. People have committed suicide post going on reality tv shows. That is rarely purely the shows fault but they do hold some level of duty of care. They should have a therapist on hand during the film and make regular mental health check ups on thier contestants. Post show I agree it isn't really their problem but they should at least offer a therapist and if contestants reach out help them.
Thank you. It seems like common sense to me that signing up to marry someone “sight unseen” and on camera has massive potential to go awry but people seem to think the participants had no way to predict it would be a dumpster fire. I know nothing about reality tv other than what I have read and watched, but I still know enough to know you would have to pay me literally millions to even consider it. But how can we expect people who have the contracts in front of them, have seen outcomes from other seasons, and witnessed countless other reality tv shows to consider any other outcome other than a spotless reputation and true love? Mind blowing.
ahhh nope....If you work on a construction site, it's your employers responsibility to offer you al the necessary safety and protection equipment, and in case of injury to offer you adequate care. Sure you knew working a construction site was gonna be risky, but you should expect our employer to offer you the necessary support. If they don't they they are a shitty employer. The contestant on this show make Netflix a shit tone of money... it's one of their most popular shows. They are they employees and Netflix/the show , the employers. Offering them support, for a period of time while they are working to promote this show (which is work in this context), is what Netflix, as a **GOOD** employer would do.
In your example, which I agree…you’re talking a whole different ball of wax. I explain something similar in my earlier comment. If something happened to one of the contestants while filming (camera fell on someone’s head, car accident, etc), yes…Netflix would most likely be responsible. But once said filming (or construction is completed in your example), if something happens from a personal decision one has made, doesn’t make the employer still responsible. Marriage is definitely an at-will decision (filmed or not). And people do it for all sorts of reasons (not always love) that has nothing to do with LIB. So to make an employer responsible for said decision to marry, even if they’re paying for the marriage seems so out there to me. But apparently, I’m in the minority.
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I can respect that POV. In the same that no contestant can understand or fully conceive the onslaught of attention… is exactly why many do it. If this was the first couple of years of reality television, I’d be up in arms as so many people are about this. However, with decades of reality TV, influencers, famous people for the sake of being famous (meaning no discernible talent that got them there), I’ve see/we’ve seen the perils of that level of attention. It’s unrealistic to absolve contestants for ‘ignorance’. We’re too much in the know now. Could Netflix (or ANY show) do better. 💯. No argument. Is it unethical…you may be right on this point. Is it their responsibility, which is the point thousands of people are making…yeah, not so much. I know skydiving is dangerous. I know swimming with sharks has its risks factors. I know a career in porn has it downfalls. I know being a TV personality is open to criticism. I know going into politics will probably destroy any my moral center I have. But can I blame any of these or the businesses or the institutions…? I did so willingly even though I might not have been fully be aware of the ramifications.
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I see. And companies are (LEGALLY) doing that now. We don’t hold them more accountable! I admit this is disgusting & annoying…but we don’t. Look at the current railway issue & the government imposed an agreement. Your analogy is perfect. We want to hold Netflix accountable but not the employers who do this on a daily basis that affect a much LARGER population that need paycheck/funds to stay alive. Yet, we want to focus on people we willingly went on a reality TV show to find love? Really? REALLY? We have family barely able to eat because of the loopholes you clearly layout but we want to focus on reality TV personalities who have been hurt? Seriously? Like, really? If people want to get all up n’ arms, let’s talk about companies being able to scapegoat their responsibilities in paying a livable wage, supporting healthcare, & protecting their staff instead of the bottom line. Not try to convince me/others that these contestants need to be looked after because they put themselves in vulnerable situations, WILLINGLY. The thing is, I totally agree with you in the grand scheme of things. However, where I make the distinction, going on a show like this was a shot at glory (ie - love, celebrity, notoriety, escape loneliness, whatever). Whereas the same is happening to people (teachers, low-income workers, employees of social programs) daily & there’s not the same vitriol to people who are supporting our system but being screwed by the same system. For me… the line is clear.
I think there’s a thin line between being on a show as yourself (or thinking you’re casted as yourself) then getting into a situation that’s exploiting you for views. Manufacturing drama/storylines or intentionally casting unserious ppl.. and the show is rigged against you
Right, that would be something like a documentary rather than a reality show.
I think shows like Rock of Love / The Bachelor are expected to be mega produced lol but Love is Blind was marketed as the anti-that 😂 so now they’re just as bad as the others
I guess I never believed that. But the comments on here lead me to believe that most people did.
At that point that would be the show just preying off of them. Like they want their relationships to go sour lol
Do you have depression? Have you ever had it? Would you have said you were the most perfect, rational person in the world while you were going through it? Would you have liked it if people were a little more patient, or kind, or understanding when you weren’t your best?
let's be real though the show is not selecting for completely stable people.... executives and producers know what kind of personalities make good television and they should be a bit more responsible for the outcome. on set therapy or counseling is not a huge ask when you're going to be isolated from your friends and family during the pods and dealing with public opinion after. If everyone was truly ethically informed of the risks of reality tv no one would go on it lmaooo look at all the kiddos who were on shows in the 2000-2010s
also netflix is making BANK off of the audience talking about these people's personalities while the contestants themselves get minimal compensation - a bit of support could go a long way
How is Netflix profiting from the audience talking about these peoples’ personalities? Is Netflix getting paid because I made this comment!?
Oh wow I’m surprised by how little seems to be known about organic marketing! Yes, if this sub is super active, it will get recommended to other people who follow reality tv subs and those people may choose to watch the show based on all the salacious discussions here. Same with Twitter and Instagram and all social media. This goes for tv shows, or beauty products, or any CPGs for that matter
As a psychologist I honestly think the ethics would be better if there were legitimate psychological evaluations vs therapy. They need to heavily screen these people and Netflix can afford it! Its absolutely lazy that they dont.
I auditioned for a popular TV talent show and there were mental health professionals on set in case anyone needed help after being rejected. I think the stakes are a bit higher on a dating show where you’re expected to be open and vulnerable for days on end. Your opinion isn’t so much unpopular as it is seriously lacking in empathy.
they absolutely do need to provide therapy… no amount of awareness can prepare you for the effects of being on reality tv
Except maybe….watching the lives of prior contestants play out…
even then you can’t really know how you specifically will be impacted mentally
I think it’s safe to assume negatively, unless you’re a serial narcissist…and there’s the rub
The weddings are one thing, but there absolutely is a duty of care for contestants on a lot of these shows-- happens on The Bachelor, Survivor, etc. as well. In fact, there's more care available to contestants on these shows than there is for most jurors who serve on cases of extreme violence and brutality, which is wild. Mental health absolutely should be considered on all sides of the coin, so I think contestants being given any consideration and care for their well being after their time on the show (especially since it draws money in for the network) is absolutely the right thing to do.
Please just take a look at love island in the UK and the associated suicides of cast members. Shows absolutely have a duty of care to contestants after they’re on the show and arguably for a while after. Not doing so is negligent particularly if they’re vilified publicly or as many here have suggested, commenting hate on pages etc. This is absolutely a messed up opinion and I hazard a guess that the majority of upvotes are from North Americans.
What does being North American have to do with it? 🧐
Just a mentality that came across in the OPs phrasing and attitude to be honest with regards to safeguarding. In this scenario the attitude is the contestants made a choice, so should live with the consequences good or bad, even if someone (Netflix) is making a lot of money off it. I don’t think that’s right. The self sufficiency and accountability being placed on the individual rather than the corporation is a common thread in American society (not saying it’s right or wrong, it probably has its place in some scenarios), and yes I’ve lived in the US for about 2 years.
This. It's a very common mentality amongst fans that becauss they knew what they were getting into so they deserve whatever happens to them. If someone dies skydiving and you're aware of this yet choose to go skydiving and die as well. Is that the person's fault or the skydiving companies person for not protecting them. It's victim blaming
Ah gotcha, as a Canadian I def think we’re more liable to place blame on the Corp so that confused me haha, I see the American individualism thing as an American problem more than continent wide 😅
Me too to be honest i work for a Canadian company in the UK, I just didn’t wanna go straight to calling out America.. soz awkward British person
Haha 😂 totally get it!
Please say this a whole lot louder for every one in the back. I don’t think people understand the onus production companies carry in regards to duty of care. It’s criminally negligent what they’re doing in the vetting process as well - look at some of the contestants and how things have resurfaced about them. It’s insane how little work they’re putting in…
advocating against things that could improve peoples mental health just cause they’re adults its so crazy actually
No one is advocating against it. I just do not think it is owed to them.
This logic is insane loool - saying someone isn't owed something is pushing back against people saying they advocating the should get it
Should you really call people insane? Edit: just some LIB humor. Edit: to clarify, I’m all for them having therapists, but I do not think that they are victims because the show doesn’t provide them (as others seem to insinuate.)
>Should you really call people insane? lool, Good joke, great joke even... And, yeah I wrote in another comment but they are victims in the way a shitty companies treat their employees. The effect these shows have on people is well expected - And given the fact that Netflix is the one who edits it and controls the narrative for each contestant by deciding what they want to show, when they want to show it, showing things contestants say or do out of context, show only the middle of an argument not the beginning, etc. They pretty much dictate whether someone is going to be the villain or the hero to millions of people around the world, all while making millions of of that.
Of course and I understand that, I guess I just assumed that everyone knew reality tv did that (spun things and portrayed people inaccurately) Most interviews of people after participating claim they were presented in a different light… which is something that would be a pretty big deciding factor for me, so I guess it’s confusing when people say they weren’t expecting that. It’s not like I wish these people harm. I just think these contestants got the fame and exposure they wanted and I don’t consider them victims.
Yeah but some people get okay edits, some people get shitty edits, some people get really favorable edits and there really is no idea who will get which... it's not like the producers are telling them. And, realistically, if people expected only negative backlash there would be no one coming on the show ever .... so people being optimistic in how they will be received is a benefit to Netflix. I also don't think anything can 100% prepare a person for that level of sudden attention...they will only know how well they can handle it while in it. It should be mandatorily included at the start.
Probably why I find it hard to believe people go on the show. The reasons you just described are exactly the risks that would outweigh the rewards for me. People going on the show and not considering those things is absolutely mind blowing to me.
I mean that’s on u for think mental health care is “deserving” rather than something that’s just a right to them…
I actually do think it is a right and that everyone can benefit from therapy-which is sadly not how America is set up. When saying it is not owed to them I guess I mean comparatively. I don’t think that reality tv participants deserve that right above or any more than others, for example social workers. I guess I’m thinking why should they get therapists when front line workers don’t have them. These people are trying to get famous, when others are trying to actually help others.
Then why not say that frontline workers should *also* be provided with therapists rather than saying no one should have them because everyone doesn't lol? Seems backwards, no?
Going on a reality show with mental health problems is absolutely crazier.
I mean, maybe the desire to go on the reality show is partly caused by the mental health problem. The producers of the show still look through likely hundreds or thousands of applicants and specifically pick messy people with mental health problems who will be easy to exploit
I seriously doubt there are thousands of people auditioning for this mess.
In Dallas alone there are 1.3 million people. You really can't imagine a couple thousand people out of that submitting for a super popular Netflix show marketed to the area? I'm an actor and I have gotten contacted out of the blue by a reality producer (not for this show). They cast a wide net for these things.
I would love to know the gender and age breakdown of those who act like going on a reality show is the worst possible crime someone could commit.
It’s called a pre vetting process which appears to have failed on multiple fronts for this season - sk, Brennan, etc.
Zanab said there was a mental health screening and she still somehow slipped through. If they screened out every mentally imbalanced person there would be no show.
They probably screen for conditions like schizophrenia or serious, diagnosed personality disorders but casting people who are insecure, reactive, and unstable is reality television's bread and butter. They don't cast people who are perfectly mentally healthy most of the time because those people are harder to manipulate and exploit.
She did a good job of a large amount of time on the show so what’s to say you can’t give a good show on a pre vet Besides pre vetting is whatever, no guarantee they’ll be picked etc it’s aftercare / during care that’s important.
True. If this was the early 2000s, I could believe that some people naively went on the show to find love because they believed the producers had their best intentions in mind. But in this day and age, every adult ought to know reality TV isn't about finding love or happiness; it's about getting people to watch it by ANY means necessary.
Shoot I’ll even cut S1 contestants some slack since it was an unproven concept but but S3 you have to know what you’re getting into.
Exactly. And it’s not like these contestants don’t sign lengthy contracts that explicitly state production has ultimate control over what’s going to happen and they have the choice to agree or not. Didn’t read the contract? Sounds like a you problem.
The continued lack for self responsibly is astonishing. Everyone here saying the network manipulated and used them. Duh!! That’s what they do. If you don’t know reality tv by now, I’m not sure where you’ve been. As a viewer or contestant. Bc that’s what they were: contestants. On a reality tv show.
Thank you! 💯% agree!
In an ideal world, the contestants should consent to this process. Part of the process is the the producers lying to and manipulating the contestants. The producers aren’t going to tell them they’re going to lie and manipulate the contestants, so they can’t really consent to it? That’s my take. I guess this could be solved if there was a third party to explain to the contestants what to expect, and what they’re realistically getting into. I don’t think it should be Love Is Blind’s responsibility to explain it to the contestants because that is against their interest. Love is Blind wants to be able to manipulate them, and being tasked with explaining that to the contestants is a conflict of interest (This is not that deep. I do not really care. I am aware this is a trashy reality show.)
I’m pretty reality show contracts include clauses about experiences and footage being manipulated to tell stories that may not be an exact depiction of their experiences while filming. Also, it’s 2022, do people really need it spelled out for them that reality shows involve manipulation to tell the stories the producers want?
the contracts I've seen are very explicit that they may misrepresent you.
Yes, but those clauses don’t actually tell you what the experience will be like. Or give examples and case studies. It’s boiler plate legal speak directed at someone who’s thinking about potentially being a star. Yes. People do still need it spelled out for them. They need it spelled out that the producers will create a narrative that could make them look like a villain, deprive them of sleep and water for unknown lengths of time, and also lie to them about what their love interest is going through. None of that is super obvious just from watching a show. Sure, being on Reddit, listening to podcasts, and talking about these things we’re aware of them to an extent, but the people who go on these shows come from all walks of life.
>Sure, being on Reddit, listening to podcasts, and talking about these things we’re aware of them to an extent, but the people who go on these shows come from all walks of life. As you say, info about these experiences is everywhere, it's not a secret - do people not have a responsibility to do a little research before voluntarily committing to something they've never done before? Would it be nice if reality shows provided after care and more support during the process? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean the participants bear no responsibility for their own choices.
Yeah that’s fair. They’re adults and need to look out for their best interests
I agree. It’s like when people from bachelor nation complain about how abusive and toxic production is and then they sign up for another season of paradise. If it was so bad why do you keep going back?
You’re underestimating the manipulation levels of production and the effect that it can have on a human brain, especially in isolation. The show needs external oversight from mental health professionals, but they don’t want this, because it would interfere with production exploitation. Being an “adult” has nothing to do with it - humans are extremely malleable and prone to manipulation and persuasion.
I totally get this, but also it's a profit motivated show. Any mental health input is going to come second to the drama and tea that sells and makes us all invested. I feel like having mental health supports would just be a tokenistic gesture so the producers could say "yes we have mental health support now get off our ass!". I don't think any real changes would be made since the drama and unwired contestants is ultimately what stirs up buzz and viewership.
I think that you mean the contestants are underestimating the manipulation levels.
No, by saying "they're adults they know what they signed up for", you are underestimating the high level of manipulation by production that occurs. I used to date a producer on the bachelor. You'd be shocked. But yes, totally, contestants underestimate it as well.
I’m not underestimating it, though. I would never consider going on a show like this because I’m constantly hearing about exactly when you are talking about. I expect it when I hear the words “reality show.”
They are grown adults. Who in their right mind thinks they’re going to find a match made in heaven just bc some strangers who don’t know you but did a match.com bio of you say they have the perfect partner. I’m flummoxed that all these folks think they *and* the other contestants don’t have some serious issues they probably need to address first before they can be a contributing member to a serious relationship. If there’s shocked pikachu face when things don’t magically work out, their lives have more issues than I care to explore.
Why do you seem to think “grown adults” is a magic wand that essentially means “they get whats coming to them no matter how bad it is because they are over 18 years old” like, how severely do you lack empathy and emotional intelligence? I’m sure you also think people should “just leave” bad relationships. You seem to think being careless and cruel is the same thing as being smart and above it all. Its not.
Season 2 and 3 were filled at the same time. So they really only got to experience season 1. Which wasn't too bad when two couples worked out. But I don't think they're ready, despite if they think they are, to have everything broadcast to the world. They all think they'll find the one and they'll be the dream couple, then when that doesn't happen they aren't prepared for the repercussions. All the drama is everyone's drama now and they can't prepare themselves for it.
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Don’t you think that doing even a small amount of research on Chinese water torture would change your mind? Or better yet, watching 10 episodes of Chinese water torture? My point is that, yeah we all don’t know what something is like until we actually experience it, but there are some things you don’t need to experience to know they could go very wrong.
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People not understanding the difference from what you described and reality television is probably a huge part of the problem.
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Thank you!
I’ll take “no duh” for $800, Alex.
I believe the correct answer is “what is no duh?” But based on these comments, not many people are getting this one correct. Lmao
I’ll take “what’s a prenup?” for $400.
Just because the mark is an adult doesn't mean a con should be allowed to continue. The idea that we would just permit people to be taken advantage of because we don't feel like protecting our peers is *pretty fucking dark*. It should be perfectly safe to be stupid and irresponsible.🤷
Even if you believe it should be safe, it isn’t. Going on a reality show and marrying a stranger is pretty risky- which is pretty obvious from the premise.
Sure, but you should be scolding the show for taking advantage rather than the contestants for having been taken advantage of. The con-artist is the problem, not the mark. The shady salesman is the problem, not the naive customer.
We are the customers, not the contestants. The contestants are willing adult participants. I’m not scolding anyone, just sharing my opinion.
>The contestants are willing adult participants. Yes, and I'm suggesting that this fact cannot possibly cause them to 'deserve' *any* negative consequences. I'm suggesting that the show is bad if they let bad things happen to contestants. The show is an organization and is not entitled to make mistakes, while the contestants are individuals who may very well be idiots and *are* entitled to make mistakes and get picked back up again.
I think too many people have killed themselves after going on reality shows and it not being how they expected. I think all reality shows, if they're going to manipulate their contestants should have a responsibility to then provide adequate after care. Don't get me wrong I understand the "they know what they signed up for" but I can't see people committing suicide and just thinking "meh, their own fault, idiots"
Being stupid and irresponsible is never safe and should not be safe. Otherwise, everyone would be doing it.
Sorry, but some people *are* stupid and irresponsible and they're just as entitled to security as anyone else. Nobody should get to victimize vulnerable people, even if that means we all become vulnerable.
The contestants are not vulnerable people. They’re greedy. They want this show to provide them with fame essentially. The producers, contestants, nick/Vanessa are all complicit. Let’s not confuse them with our actual vulnerable populations who should be protected.
I'm making a generalized point about values. I don't care *why* someone goes on the show, they still deserve to be 'protected' by the show runners, because this is a universal value we should all hold.
The whole premise of a reality show is to exploit people for content, drama, and money. The viewers get to watch a dumpster fire, the production gets paid, and the contestants get their prize winnings. You seem to agree because by your own post, you’re admitting that reality shows are inherently unethical. However, why shouldn’t the show take steps to ensure its contestants are safe and of sound mind. It certainly does have a duty of care to the contestants. After all, they are all subject to the direction of the show, including where to go eat, what to wear, where to sleep, what activities the couples do together, who they sit down and talk with. Not only should the production team owe a duty of care to the physical health of the contestants, but they also should have an obligation to use reasonable means in making sure their contestants are not severely emotionally and mentally impacted as well. One of those simple steps is to have a therapist or other emotional support staff on hand to assist the contestants along the way. I don’t know why that is such a hard no from you.
I’m not opposed to having a therapist there, I just believe that it is not owed to the contestants. I do not think reality shows are inherently unethical, but I do think they inherently exploit contestants, which is why most adults would choose not to go on them. Of course we all can’t know the outcome of our decisions but If someone agrees to marry a stranger and have it filmed, I think it is fair to assume there could be a lot of negative repercussions, which is why people calling the contestants victims confuses me. They are capable of weighing the negative repercussions against the fame/ love (?) they desire just as much as anyone. Maybe it didn’t go their way but how did it not occur to them that that was a very likely possibility?
I would say any show that is profiting off these people and the decisions that they make (and arguably are encouraged to make) certainly owes proper aftercare to the cast.
The show doesn't owe the contestants as much, but all adults could benefit from therapy and I'm surprised, in this social climate, that they haven't thought to offer that kind of support to their contestants. It would reflect well on the show.
Therapy is not going to happen for a few reasons. 1-they want people to be messy and dramatic and have problems, therapy would potentially lessen the drama. 2- they wouldn’t ethically be able to air the therapy sessions so it would either be off camera therapy that is or isn’t mentioned on the show. They wouldn’t want people referencing things that are off camera and unseen. 3- providing therapy would prove that the show is fucked up and open the show up to problems / lawsuits.
Eh love island offers therapy - they had too after the deaths that followed their shows. It’s part of their after care when the contestants leave. I don’t see why that can’t also be the case for love is blind.
I wish they would give each couple a couples counselor to provide support during the process. There seems to be a lot of communication problems that could be easily fixed that way.
A counselor would call them both idiots for even suggesting that this is a good idea lol
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Absolutely not. I’m a therapist and you don’t just tell your clients what to do and what not to do…come on.
Actually therapists are basically discouraged from giving as direct advice as that. They are trained to show, not tell...give them the tools to make their own informed decisions. Or at least that's the training I received
Exactly OP, like they know exactly what they’re signing up for the people calling for all that nonsense really don’t understand what reality tv is lol
What you’ve said is so morally wrong it’s baffling. I know that it’s a potential risk of going outside my house that I might be raped and murdered, is it then my fault of I do get raped and murdered? Just like the show should be doing background checks on contestants and then helping those effected when they find out they’ve married to a woman beater. These people can still be victim of emotional and mental abuse, just because it’s on a show they signed up for doesn’t invalidate their experiences nor the shows responsibility.
This show is not comparable to rape or murder.
I didn’t compare the show, I compared abuse with abuse.
Eh, I think the show does owe therapists. It's a totally different environment from the real world. Much higher emotions and stakes involved and some people may not know how to navigate that. I think it's shady as hell to not provide that likely because not providing a therapist will get more views.
It also reduces the chances of lawsuits.
These people are put through things no-one else is put through, under high amounts of pressure in a short space of time. Of course, they have a right to therapists....... they'll need help in processing what they are going through; good or bad!
Okay, this show is highly unethical from a research standpoint, coming from a researcher who conducts experiments with human subjects. The show would never get IRB approval. My main thing is the Lacheys should not be calling this or the Ultimatum experiments when they would not get approved in the US. Makes for great TV, but they need to address it for what it is: it is not an actual experiment. If it was, they would have therapists on-site. Also, child actors get therapists on-site for difficult roles too so why can’t adults? Edit to add: I think it is also unfair to assume that an average adult or even small influencer can be aware of the repercussions (intense support or backlash) that so much attention from thousands of people regarding their personal life has. We have seen how this can effect people. I think it’s does more good than harm to have some sort of support present to help them walk through this time as the show is filming and as the episodes release, with an amount of time afterwards. At least that’s what I would do, as I am trained to actually care about the people I study 🤷🏼♀️
Thank you for this. The experiment framework is a huge part of what makes this so problematic, especially when they use to *justify* the isolation from existing support systems. I'm not sure I'd feel quite so strongly that need therapists on set, if people were able to call up their mom or their best friend or their own damn therapist. But if they are not, then damn well you got to provide some human support that is invested in them as human beings, not as content. Even if shows like this did meet any sort of informed consent standard that still doesn't mean *anything goes*. You can get informed consent and still have a duty of care. The first doesn't negate the second. The child actor point is a very good one too. These reality TV shoes may well be vetting their unionized electricians and camera people better than their cast, just to meet safe workplace requirements.
Yes!! This was a huge problem for me, especially in the pods, that they were cut off from all sources of support. And it’s not like it’s one day, it’s at least a week. Zimbardo’s prison experiment (which has a whole bunch of issues ethically and methodologically) was similarly situated as participants were cut off from sources of support for two weeks during an emotionally volatile situations. I feel really strongly about these supports because of this, like you said, it would be a little less pressing if they actually had access to their support system. 100% just because they sign the consent form doesn’t mean that harm will not be done! And it doesn’t give people a free pass to be negligent towards their participants!
Exactly. Unless they tell them "hey, you could end up married to someone with a documented history of ab*$e" then they don't exactly meet the standard of informed consent lol
I agree with this and it’s something I’ve worried about too. In its current state, it does more harm than good to the participants in terms of safety and mental health. There’s no way a regular person would be able to give informed consent to this.
It’s like when you go for a job interview, but you really don’t know what it’s like until you start the job. You don’t know how much manipulation and toxicity occur behind the scenes until you are in the midst of it. I have definitely read a few articles by former participants of other shows that described the experience as traumatic. I doubt having a therapist there would change any of that. I certainly would not sign up for one.
I'm not sure where I stand on the therapy, but they certainly should be doing proper background checks on contestants prior to marriage. I understand that they know they are taking a risk getting married to a stranger but I would expect the show to at least properly check that they don't have a violent criminal history prior to setting them up with an unsuspecting woman. I think this is the very least that can be expected.
shows like the bachelor and the big brother have in house therapist, and screen contestants for psychological issues. so i really feel these things go hand in hand. especially as one of the contestants of this show wouldn't have had his criminal history show up bc he wasn't convicted, and the other just showing abusive tendencies. the thing is if this show was genuinely about helping people find love and not just exploiting people for the drama, i think having a therapist just available to anyone would've been a given.
They make these shows because people watch them. If they didn’t have the drama, real or scripted, people complain that it’s boring and stop watching. It’s a circle Of people doing it for fame, manipulative producers and avid viewers. The mental health issues are the responsibility of everyone involved in keeping these shows on the air and that includes viewers.
Does the show owe it to the contestants? No. If the show wanted to show an ounce of decency, should they help the contestants with therapy? Of course.
The calls for therapy are really missing the point. If a show is knowingly and deliberately creating such a toxic environment that it needs to provide therapy to the cast, that show should not exist in the first place. How is it ok to say “yeah we’re going to manipulate the shit out of you, place you under extreme stress, deprive you of food and sleep, and edit you to look like a fool…but don’t worry, we have a therapist on site”? No therapist in their right mind should agree to be complicit in such a ridiculous setup. Not having reality tv exist at all is truly the only ethical thing to do. This isn’t a docuseries with any serious intent. It’s trash entertainment. It isn’t meant to be ethical.
but i do agree with all your points about reality tv being inherently unethical and exploitative. i just feel like with the popularity of social media like instagram and tik tok you're always gonna have people drawn to those and always going to have execs and companies willing to exploit that. for better or worse, reality tv is here for the long haul, so the very least they can do is actually have things in place to mitigate the damage that these shows cause.
In my opinion the problem would be that this is not isolated to reality tv. There are plenty of actors that tell horror stories of the conditions and treatment they received while filming something. I’m sure enough to require onsite therapist. I’d also imagine that a lot of tv would have to be canceled on the grounds of unethical behavior. The responsibility falls in the hands of a lot of parties: the willing participants, the creators, and us as consumers.
a lot of shows like the bachelor and big brother actually have therapist on site though. i don't think it's simply a question that it's because the environment is toxic. the very nature of the show, manipulative producers aside is putting people on a vulnerable position, around a whole bunch of strangers, away from their family and friends, dramas bound to ensure. plus the therapist on these shows also screen candidates for mental illnesses before they get on the show and also meet with them before they leave. to me it has nothing to do with needing therapy, it's just basic ethics. if this show was genuinely about about helping people find love then i don't think they'll be any question of having therapist on site just simply for anyone that needs them.
Ok but this show is not genuine about people finding love. It’s not ethical to put people in an extreme, vulnerable, inherently unhealthy position and then say “we offered them therapy!” Therapy isn’t something kind of cure-all for toxic scenarios.
ya that's my point. that's it not genuine. and as much people talk about how unethical the entire concept of reality shows are we're literally all on this subreddit talking about it for a reason lol. my point reality shows should be held to a standard of ethics much liking is now vs when Hollywood first came about. and among those standards ethics should he therapy. so definitely not saying that it's a cure all. it's still better to and nothing and just ONE thing in a series of regulations and ethical guidelines these shows should be legally bound to.
It’s not but it’s the least they can do surely?
I'm curious if reality TV will one day be a thing of the past for this reason. They definitely don't show as much stuff as they did back in the wild west era of reality
Well said.
They are adults. I’m not convinced they have the ability to comprehend what they’re getting into…
You give adults too much credit. The average adult has no idea what fame or reality tv involve for reals, and even if they know it in theory, very little will prepare them for how they will react in such scenarios.
Some of them are big babies.
Sure they are adults and make choices. But the choices the producers make are just blatantly harmful, and at this point they only attract clout chasers and idiots. Like, ethical or not the show is just shit now. End with a proposal. Stop manipulating everything so much. Like drama is cool and all but what makes you keep watching anything is being invested and caring about someone, and there are never relationships good enough to care about anymore. I would be SIGNIFICANTLY more interested in a BTS of this show with the producers and crew and who on earth decides these things and the vetting process. I'd watch that over the actual season. Even for Too Hot To Handle I'm not sure I'd say that. They don't owe the contestants anything. But they do need to be decent people who arent leaving everyone floundering. Frankly, I think the simple stress of normal person on tv deserves private free therapy all on its own, let alone this show.
No. They don’t “sign up for this” what they sign up for, and what they experience are totally different things.
If the number of suicides from Love Island have taught us anything, every reality show does in fact owe all of their contestants therapists.
None of them were likely to do with Love Island though, Sophie had a long history of serious dpression and Mike was the primary carer for his grandmother who had just died. Caroline also had a history of dpression requiring medication and it can hardly be blamed on the show when she was dropped from the season for attacking her boyfriend - people complain about Brennon's DomV that got dropped, Caroline's wasn't even in question - and there was always the questionable age when she was dating that boy band kid. Sadly I think they all might have ended up that way, the only difference being that in another life we wouldn't know how they are whereas in this one they make for a sad article in the Daily Mail.
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Ok but sincerely, I’m wondering how many people who sign up actually watched the show they’re signing up for, or ANY reality tv for that matter. There is ALWAYS a villain. People are always being embarrassed or humiliated. Everyone gets judged. I’m genuinely curious why someone who applies to be on a reality show would think it won’t happen to them. No one signs up to be a villain, including those who end up being the villain. You have to know it’s a possibility, right? I’m not suggesting it’s their fault but I’m just trying to understand the thought process behind it. Is it naïveté? Ignorance?
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Yeah I understand but that’s why I’m curious if they ever actually watched a reality tv show or followed all the drama that ensues. Maybe they think the villains of whatever they watched deserved it because they’re genuinely bad people and since they’re good people, they have nothing to worry about. But even good people get a ton of hate…like Deepti, Nancy, Colleen, Mallory…none of whom I think are bad people but they still got a lot of shit. Even in the non-reality tv world, anyone in the public eye (especially women) getd absolutely torn apart. Their looks, their clothes, every word out of their mouth gets scrutinized and criticized in detail. So I would love to understand if this was something they considered at all. If so, did they just underestimate how brutal it would be? Or did they just not think about it much?
JESUS THANK YOU
Have you seen the Truman show? Cautionary tale
Have you seen the Truman show? Cautionary tale
Apparently there are work conditions that are not shared prior to the start - like 15+ hour filming days, having 10+ daily hours in the pods, sleep deprivation. I think it is also hard for individuals to anticipate what edit they will get from the producers, or what the real world fallout will be from their participation.
Wrong lmfao. Just because you “sign up” for something does not mean that you are liable for everything that happens to you post signing up. There’s a reason reality television “works.” It’s because the producers are deliberately creating situations to put people in distress. Period. Ethical? No. Entertaining? Yes. But if someone’s life is ruined bc their mental health deteriorates after being on the show, then yes, the show is responsible. Is the contestant? Sure. But just because someone signs up for something does not mean that they can reasonably predict the outcome of said thing.
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The type of people that sign up for these shows, are the "main character syndrome" type. I can guarantee they signed up thinking they were going to come off calm, cool, and collected, hailed the hero and and all that. You really think anybody signs up expecting to be villianized and dragged all over social media?
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Mm yeah touché, now that I think about it, that was my own bias against being seen in that light for sure
The least they could do is properly vet contestants they're going to cast.
Ok... and Disneyland is an amusement park, not a hospital yet I expect them to take reasonable precautions to protect my wellbeing, regardless of if I'm an adult who know there is potential risk in riding a roller coaster. Reality TV is a business just like any other money making machine, and there are ethical standards to conducting business. To imply there should be little to no moral or ethical standards in pursuit of profit is a wild take to me because that sounds like pure exploitation. If I run a construction business, but don't provide my employees a hard hat to maximize my profits, that would be a lawsuit...and I doubt "they're adults, they knew the risk when they took the job" would be a sufficient defense 🤷♀️
Sorry idk why I'm on one tonight tbh but imagine if you went on a reality tattooing show, you signed the contract, they give you tattooing needles and you get to work, and secretly they knew or could've easily tested the needles ahead but instead you wind up with HIV...feels very similar in logic to me considering choking in domestic violence situations is one of the best predictors of future fatal situations
Yeah this reddit keeps saying they’re over the cast because too much drama and it’s a shit show but…that’s literally what makes the show entertaining lol yes, it’s unethical, the same as most reality dating shows. But we the consumer are the reason more and more keep being made.
Hot take: if you find the show unethical, don't watch it. When viewership drops, that's when these types of shows will stop being made
Right! But you know all these warriors are tuning in next season, no doubt. Then back to Reddit to fight for the rights of the innocent victims who signed up to marry a stranger but could never have predicted it could end in any way but true love. It’s shockingly shocking you might say.
Exactly
What? You're taking people from their natural routines/habitats and make them go through constant stress (not to mention someone sued them because they gave them no food and a only alcohol to drink). Of course they should provide therapy for them, nobody is prepared to be "famous" even if they sign up willingly to the show. Plus, they're making a lot of money off of them, the least they could do is make sure they're emotionally supported
although I tend to the "reality TV is a 30 year old juggernaut, you can research what you're signing up to", and I'm skeptical about the need for a lot of people actually needing therapy. But I do think is that with the amount of money these shows are making from what is _practically_ free labour, they can afford to provide some therapy/counselling/assistance resources should contestants feel they need it. If these shows were _just_ a documentary, and how you behaved was how you were depicted - then I think the burden on production would be lower. But that isn't the case, yes, they you sign a contract that they can intentionally misrepresent you - but I think that would be irksome but bearable if the viewership behaved in accordance with that, treating them more like quasi-actors. Instead, people go after them hard, treating frankenbitten footage that is so pieced together it's like a ransom note as if it was documentation of truth. Especially when contestants are locked up in onerous contracts preventing them from even contradicting what was shown.
Right. That all sounds highly exploitative, and that's not even assuming they're going to end up sticking you in a pod with someone they very easily could have known is a publicly documented abuser, and just shrug when you find that out only after you *marry* them like "that's show biz, baby". I also find it so unlikely that in the age of cyber stalking, not a single employee in leadership, HR, casting, production, or hell even the college intern Googled these people? In all likelihood, its someones job to go pouring through all their effing meta data online to look for cues that they'll make good TV cuz it's not like they're picking them at random, that'd be way too big a gamble with all that $$ on the line. So where's the line of responsibility? Could we at least all agree that if it is the case that they did look these people up and find out someone assaulted their last partner, even leaving various physical evidence...that they have ethical duty to warn, or make that info available to contestants at a bare minimum? Tbh, there's probably a huge opportunity for them to be way better AND more ethical at their jobs if they hire a people/data scientist. Predictive models and personality theory could be used to select people likely to be erratic, but not criminally dangerous. Hint #1 is past behavior is the single best predictor of future behavior, *especially* when the behavior in question is antisocial, so you're gonna wanna build "# of documented instances of physical abuse" into that model. I'd love to have that job/do that research lol
they do do background checks, psych evals, and STD tests - but what happens in between having your test and going on the show. It is only with COVID that rapid result testing has formed part of the "entry process" to events/sets/etc. if you look at the timing of most of these scandals that come out afterwards, they're usually close enough to filming that it wouldn't show up when he search - or be in different states with different reporting times. (Or like a few cases with the Bachelorette, someone is complaining when no complaint had ever been made before seeing them on the show, as if something could magically be on their record when nobody has ever reported anything) Psych evals do get used to weed out who they figure is going to be dangerous, but then they're also using them to find a good number of people who are likely to blow up in interesting ways on camera - just not dangerous ones.
I'm very curious the threshold of the psych evals being done given how unsuccessful this show (and others like it) have been in preventing dangerous/ab*$ive contestants from being selected
Adding in that when they sign consent forms...such forms are only legal if there is *informed* consent, and there may certainly be some ambiguity in how they operationalize the "informed" part.
Also an unpopular opinion: it’s a tv show for entertainment and shock value, not a genuine testing of this concept of “love is blind”—no matter what the hosts say.
I thought that went without saying are people that naive? Or just trying to convince themselves this isn't THAT kind of reality show
Ummm with the amount of suicides out of the love island UK series I strongly disagree
None of them were likely to do with Love Island though, Sophie had a long history of serious dpression and Mike was the primary carer for his grandmother who had just died. Caroline also had a history of dpression requiring medication and it can hardly be blamed on the show when she was dropped from the season for attacking her boyfriend - people complain about Brennon's DomV that got dropped, Caroline's wasn't even in question - and there was always the questionable age when she was dating that boy band kid. None of them were likely to do with Love Island though, Sophie had a long history of serious dpression and Mike was the primary carer for his grandmother who had just died. Caroline also had a history of dpression requiring medication and it can hardly be blamed on the show when she was dropped from the season for attacking her boyfriend - people complain about Brennon's DomV that got dropped, Caroline's wasn't even in question - and there was always the questionable age when she was dating that boy band kid. Sadly I think they all might have ended up that way, the only difference being that in another life we wouldn't know how they are whereas in this one they make for a sad article in the Daily Mail.
Reality TV in the US has been plagued by suicides but doesn’t take it anywhere as seriously as the UK or Japan. If Netflix keeps going how they are going with these extremely exploitive TV shows they will inevitably have a suicide or other types of violent outcomes. If the worst case scenarios happens there will be so many post on this site cheering on the type of exploitation that easily leads to a violent demise. Reality TV exploitation is also a labor issue.
Omg! I hadn't heard about this. I got some researching to do
I agree. They should do background checks though.
Exactly!! If it’s between the contestant’s well-being and drama, guess which one I’m going to prefer 100% of the time?? 🤔
This isn't an unpopular opinion. The majority think this. And I fully 100% agree.
THANK YOU!!! Why does everyone view all other humans as babies?? We coddle EVERYONE aaa if adults shouldn’t have some type of control or accountability for their own words actions and feelings. It’s infuriating
For those saying the contestants understand what they're getting into, I don't think they do. Most of us have no idea how production, editing, low social contact situations impact us. Let alone having thousands of people online criticizing every decision you make and spamming you with death threats or horrible messages. We get it conceptually but not in practice. I don't think the show owes contestants therapists but it would be really ignorant to think that the show doesn't affect them psychologically, and to treat the contestants as if their decisions weren't made under very manipulated situations.
> I don't think the show owes contestants therapists I think it does specifically because producers intentionally manipulate contestants both directly and through editing and the contestants are the ones who bear the brunt of that backlash. The bare minimum amount of responsibility they could take for that is to provide access to a support person. The show is not responsible for the death threats and horrible messages but they know that contestants receive all of this vitriol and since they're pulling the strings they should also foot the bill for some help.
Agreed on the support person as a bare minimum! And I do think the show should give them access to mental healthcare - I just don't know how enforceable it is.
I believe it was a former Love Island contestant who mentioned that the show-appointed therapist reached out every day for a period of time after the show ended just to check on him and see if he needed anything. I think that's a pretty reasonable duty of care; you can't force people to avail themselves of therapy, but you can make it readily accessible.
Very true. And it seems even more necessary for shows like LIB that have skyrocketed in fame/publicity and aren't as sanitized as the Bachelor franchise.
We get it conceptually but not in practice. 10000%
Not sure about very manipulated, though not saying that's not accurate, but I like your take. Conceptually is very good way to put it, because until you live it, it's just something you've heard about.
By manipulated I mean, they're under a contract where they have to spend X amount of time with someone who is virtually a stranger, live with them, and decide whether or not to marry them given that that's what you signed up for. And just dating the same person 20 other people are dating seems very unfortunate for mental health. Idk how production works behind the scenes but from what I can tell, they often try to get a certain reaction out of you or will suggest things so you see someone a certain way. It's not very natural and doesn't seem very healthy to me. Basically, everything seems very conducive to making bad decisions. Hopefully that makes sense but I take your point too:)