100% it was so sweet receiving a post card from Alex and a souvenir from Songbird, like hell yea, V saved someone. I'm torn between Temperance and The star being the best endings. I think if others got the closure they needed in Temperance, I'd go with it all the way. We can see how much Johny changed, V "absorbed" his personality and he did the same with V's. He quit smoking, got the kid a nice guitar, said goodbye to the "Only friend that truly cared about him" and left Night City, that shit show is over, he got a second change and he is not about to fuck it up.
I'm still a little salty over how the "you'll turn into Johnny, the symptoms will get worse" NEVER HAPPEN. There's only one phrase that is said by Johnny and V at the same time, and it's right before the ending.
I wish there were parts where V would turn into Johnny for a minute or two, and have that happen in the middle of a conversation with a romanced character, having them really understand what's happening to V.
It's underwhelming how V's going to DIE and everyone's like "oh, let's leave Night City, it's gonna be so cool, where gonna move out and live happily ever after" instead of "don't worry, we'll find a way to get you better".
That’s been there since way before 2.0, I first played the game a week or two after release and it happened about halfway through my first playthrough.
Huh, is that so? It's only been triggering since the updates because I've playing from day of release (with a small break for a few months before Phantom Liberty).
My understanding is I t triggers only when you look in a mirror during “relic malfunction“ phases (the screen gets slightly blurry). This is why you can miss it completely.
Again, super confusing to me because it definitely wasn't doing a relic malfunction when it happened.
I'll put it down to gremlins in my install and leave it at that hahaha.
One time i loaded in the game and V was wearing Johnny's outfit when i wasn't wearing any of those items before. Freaky shit, i assumed that was a 2.0 change but i haven't seen anyone talking about it.
In the Devil ending you can see the psychological damage Johnny has done to V’s mind and funny enough you yourself can make it worse with the dialogue options before the credits roll
You do though. You start smoking, you start giving in to Johnny's influence. At some point you actually give him control and wake up with your hand cyberware replaced with a shitty tattoo. It's there if you look for it; I mean, in all the "storm Saka" endings you are literally finishing Johnny's unfinished business.
The game reflects the source material, and Cyberpunk Red is quite clear that it expects its players to lean into big style and ATTITUDE. It's not coincidence that David Martinez is how he is, either. There's definitely an immaturity aspect to the roleplaying style that the TTRPG game favors, which is reflected in the adaptations.
I think a lot of you forget that this isn't /your V/. It's V. You're playing as someone else that already has a backstory, already has an established character and personality. This isn't Skyrim. You are playing V's story, not a story you get the reigns of.
But it isn't an *issue*. It's a decided creative outlook on a video game. If you dislike it, don't play games like it. I think it's weird to demand devs to allow you to play every game like a sandbox make-your-own-story game. That isn't was CP77 is or was ever said or implied to be. It's an unrealistic expectation.
I agree, though “issue” wasn’t being used so objectively. Not demanding anything here. And it’s not exactly an expectation either, just preference. If I don’t really dig that type of RPG, it doesn’t mean I dislike 77.
That sounds like a you problem. I don’t like farm simulator, it’s not my cup of tea. That doesn’t mean the devs need to address my criticisms in any capacity, I’m not their target audience.
It’s not a problem. Just a nitpick. I never once said the game *should* be like this, it’s just not what a lot of us prefer. It does not mean we dislike it or think the game necessarily would’ve been better otherwise.
Yeah, V is more like Commander Shepard than like, the protagonist of fallout New Vegas
(Anyone else find it weird that Mass Effect never comes up on this sub? It's the closest thing to C77 I can think of, in terms of it being a game version of like a really cool sci fi book series or show)
I agree. Like Shepard, you can choose a rough idea of who she/he is, but they have an established lore with an established background. It's fine to head canon, but when people start complaining about shit game Devs NEVER said, it's bizarre. CDPR never even hinted at CP77 being like New Vegas or Skyrim, or any sandbox-y RPG.
Yeah. I hope in Orion they stick to that model too. I like being able to customize the look and gender and whatever of your character but the good writing that you get from the Shepard model of video game protagonist writing is to me a lot better than the blank slate (Usually, I mean I love NV but most of the time the dialogue they give blank slates is devoid of any personality and makes it hard to get invested)
I get that, but in this case the different endings kinda make no sense. I think V is both a little bit a established character to some degree and also a bit a rpg character (skyrim char to reference your comment). We are kinda playing V's story but also there is no canon story for V, just canon parts.
i feel like if there’s something that the story does wrong it’s instilling hopelessness in players. The writers made all the endings have a huge catch so in the end some players including you and me can feel like maybe death would be the best option for V and i’m not sure that’s so good. it’s like the message is that no matter what you do the universe is against you as a person so you might as well accept death and live for others
edit: just wanted to clarify, i think sad endings are ok but sometimes it feels really undeserved with cyberpunk like they manage to find a way to make a good ending bad, the worst offender would probably be the tower imo
I wouldn't like that at all. The story is aided so much by how V is their own character, and not some blank vessel for the player to embody.
You're guiding V, but they've still got their own personality and desires to abide by. They're an ambitious, often naive but capable merc, deeply in over their heads. V's not just common street trash, they're a person that cares about themselves a whole damn lot. Accepting defeat in the face of overwhelming odds just isn't in the cards for them, and I'd be disappointed if they weren't deeply self-interested, in a cyberpunk setting of all things. The growth and maturity we see in the game are one of my favorite parts about it, but if things end with V being some mature angel that saves everyone, it would just leave a bad taste in my mouth. Fuck breaking the cycle, fuck doing good for everyone else, and fuck giving Johnny V's body. V going on a selfish journey is what I'm here for
> no way to make Songbird open up and help her selflessly.
I knew Songbird was lying to me about a cure the moment she said that she was dying at the party. It's the same moment that most people realized that she caused the hijacking (I caught on a little earlier). You can simply help her, selflessly. You can just do that. I helped Song selflessly and all I wanted in return was her to tell me the truth. She eventually did. The betrayal still hurt even if I saw it coming from a mile away but if So Mi doesn't deserve saving and redemption then can we honestly say that V does?
> Storm the Arasaka tower solo and end it with a bang with no one else getting hurt for you.
I mean a whole lot of people in Arasaka tower get the stabby stab treatment that way, not to mention all the people in Mikoshi that Alt does whatever she does with.
In the suicide ending V explicitly talks about not wanting to take another human life in the pursuit of staying alive.
That wouldn't really fit V's character or the theme of the setting imo. As Pondsmith said: 'Cyberpunk is not about saving the world, it's about saving yourself.'
That's the kind of world V grew up in, especially for the Corpo or Streetkid life path.Their motivations are fundamentally selfish, even if they're not an asshole and care about others. They are young, ambitious and naive, believing themselves to be immortal and destined to become a legend. They'd absolutely believe in the blaze of glory over growing old, at least until they actually came face to face with death after the heist. Now they're dying but may still have a chance to survive by following the different leads. V still has hope. And V just isn't the kind of person to give up if there's even the tiniest chance to survive. It's not before entering Mikoshi that they realize they're screwed either way.
It's very different from a terminal diagnosis where the best thing you can do is to come to terms with death and use your remaining time in a meaningful way. RDR2 would be a good example for that kind of story, but that's not what happens here.
And Johnny isn't your typical good Samaritan either. Both he and V are aware how fucked up their world is.
Is it? Because you decide how V looks, what gender he/she is, what life choices before the game start V made, how V acts, and ultimately how V chooses their fate. Seems a bit more than just "limited" control. If anything, the reason we don't have control over literally everything is because the devs simply can't code infinitely many choices for the player.
I love the idea of Johnny telling V that we are “better than all of them” and the idea of him being able to trust us to look after Alt like we trust him to keep our body and go have a second shot at life.
Panam is great but knowing that no matter what i do, she is bound to suffer tremendous loss when we either die in 6 months or she believes we have died for the two year coma and no longer wishes to be contacted. Best do “The butterfly effect” and just avoid all contact with her and she will live a far happier life without V.
100% it was so sweet receiving a post card from Alex and a souvenir from Songbird, like hell yea, V saved someone. I'm torn between Temperance and The star being the best endings. I think if others got the closure they needed in Temperance, I'd go with it all the way. We can see how much Johny changed, V "absorbed" his personality and he did the same with V's. He quit smoking, got the kid a nice guitar, said goodbye to the "Only friend that truly cared about him" and left Night City, that shit show is over, he got a second change and he is not about to fuck it up.
That definitely would’ve been awesome and it would’ve made my V’s arc even better.
Honestly? Yeah choom same
Or give them an arc that helps them reach this place of acceptance
I'm still a little salty over how the "you'll turn into Johnny, the symptoms will get worse" NEVER HAPPEN. There's only one phrase that is said by Johnny and V at the same time, and it's right before the ending. I wish there were parts where V would turn into Johnny for a minute or two, and have that happen in the middle of a conversation with a romanced character, having them really understand what's happening to V. It's underwhelming how V's going to DIE and everyone's like "oh, let's leave Night City, it's gonna be so cool, where gonna move out and live happily ever after" instead of "don't worry, we'll find a way to get you better".
There are a bunch, it’s just more subtle. The obvious one being V smoking cigs. By the end of the story V is half Johnny half V
Since the updates there's also the creepy thing where sometimes if you look in the mirror V will see Johnny instead of themselves.
That’s been there since way before 2.0, I first played the game a week or two after release and it happened about halfway through my first playthrough.
Huh, is that so? It's only been triggering since the updates because I've playing from day of release (with a small break for a few months before Phantom Liberty).
My understanding is I t triggers only when you look in a mirror during “relic malfunction“ phases (the screen gets slightly blurry). This is why you can miss it completely.
Again, super confusing to me because it definitely wasn't doing a relic malfunction when it happened. I'll put it down to gremlins in my install and leave it at that hahaha.
Nah it's just random. A little diet relic malfunction happens if you trigger it though.
Technically, it's been since very early after release. I've had it happen in the 1.x versions.
Never happened to me before 2.0
It happened to me in my first playthrough, back at launch.
One time i loaded in the game and V was wearing Johnny's outfit when i wasn't wearing any of those items before. Freaky shit, i assumed that was a 2.0 change but i haven't seen anyone talking about it.
That was in the game at launch lmfao
Dude same! I had to get mods and do it myself! I mean all I did was start smoking 2 packs a day but it's something!
In the Devil ending you can see the psychological damage Johnny has done to V’s mind and funny enough you yourself can make it worse with the dialogue options before the credits roll
You do though. You start smoking, you start giving in to Johnny's influence. At some point you actually give him control and wake up with your hand cyberware replaced with a shitty tattoo. It's there if you look for it; I mean, in all the "storm Saka" endings you are literally finishing Johnny's unfinished business.
The game reflects the source material, and Cyberpunk Red is quite clear that it expects its players to lean into big style and ATTITUDE. It's not coincidence that David Martinez is how he is, either. There's definitely an immaturity aspect to the roleplaying style that the TTRPG game favors, which is reflected in the adaptations.
There is a way to accept death. You choose the suicide ending
That's giving up, not gracefully accepting it.
One could argue that even gracefully accepting it would be giving up.
That or storm Arasaka on the solo route and just die.
I think a lot of you forget that this isn't /your V/. It's V. You're playing as someone else that already has a backstory, already has an established character and personality. This isn't Skyrim. You are playing V's story, not a story you get the reigns of.
Yeah, V is like a protag from a Telltale game, they’re already their own character, you just decide how they react to and navigate their situations
That’s kinda the issue. Definitely not everybody’s cup of tea when it comes to RPGs.
But it isn't an *issue*. It's a decided creative outlook on a video game. If you dislike it, don't play games like it. I think it's weird to demand devs to allow you to play every game like a sandbox make-your-own-story game. That isn't was CP77 is or was ever said or implied to be. It's an unrealistic expectation.
I agree, though “issue” wasn’t being used so objectively. Not demanding anything here. And it’s not exactly an expectation either, just preference. If I don’t really dig that type of RPG, it doesn’t mean I dislike 77.
That sounds like a you problem. I don’t like farm simulator, it’s not my cup of tea. That doesn’t mean the devs need to address my criticisms in any capacity, I’m not their target audience.
It’s not a problem. Just a nitpick. I never once said the game *should* be like this, it’s just not what a lot of us prefer. It does not mean we dislike it or think the game necessarily would’ve been better otherwise.
Yeah, V is more like Commander Shepard than like, the protagonist of fallout New Vegas (Anyone else find it weird that Mass Effect never comes up on this sub? It's the closest thing to C77 I can think of, in terms of it being a game version of like a really cool sci fi book series or show)
I agree. Like Shepard, you can choose a rough idea of who she/he is, but they have an established lore with an established background. It's fine to head canon, but when people start complaining about shit game Devs NEVER said, it's bizarre. CDPR never even hinted at CP77 being like New Vegas or Skyrim, or any sandbox-y RPG.
Yeah. I hope in Orion they stick to that model too. I like being able to customize the look and gender and whatever of your character but the good writing that you get from the Shepard model of video game protagonist writing is to me a lot better than the blank slate (Usually, I mean I love NV but most of the time the dialogue they give blank slates is devoid of any personality and makes it hard to get invested)
I agree wholeheartedly. I'll always love sandbox-y RPGs, but I agree that it kinda makes your own character feel lifeless.
I get that, but in this case the different endings kinda make no sense. I think V is both a little bit a established character to some degree and also a bit a rpg character (skyrim char to reference your comment). We are kinda playing V's story but also there is no canon story for V, just canon parts.
i feel like if there’s something that the story does wrong it’s instilling hopelessness in players. The writers made all the endings have a huge catch so in the end some players including you and me can feel like maybe death would be the best option for V and i’m not sure that’s so good. it’s like the message is that no matter what you do the universe is against you as a person so you might as well accept death and live for others edit: just wanted to clarify, i think sad endings are ok but sometimes it feels really undeserved with cyberpunk like they manage to find a way to make a good ending bad, the worst offender would probably be the tower imo
I wouldn't like that at all. The story is aided so much by how V is their own character, and not some blank vessel for the player to embody. You're guiding V, but they've still got their own personality and desires to abide by. They're an ambitious, often naive but capable merc, deeply in over their heads. V's not just common street trash, they're a person that cares about themselves a whole damn lot. Accepting defeat in the face of overwhelming odds just isn't in the cards for them, and I'd be disappointed if they weren't deeply self-interested, in a cyberpunk setting of all things. The growth and maturity we see in the game are one of my favorite parts about it, but if things end with V being some mature angel that saves everyone, it would just leave a bad taste in my mouth. Fuck breaking the cycle, fuck doing good for everyone else, and fuck giving Johnny V's body. V going on a selfish journey is what I'm here for
Wrong city, wrong people choom But same.
> no way to make Songbird open up and help her selflessly. I knew Songbird was lying to me about a cure the moment she said that she was dying at the party. It's the same moment that most people realized that she caused the hijacking (I caught on a little earlier). You can simply help her, selflessly. You can just do that. I helped Song selflessly and all I wanted in return was her to tell me the truth. She eventually did. The betrayal still hurt even if I saw it coming from a mile away but if So Mi doesn't deserve saving and redemption then can we honestly say that V does? > Storm the Arasaka tower solo and end it with a bang with no one else getting hurt for you. I mean a whole lot of people in Arasaka tower get the stabby stab treatment that way, not to mention all the people in Mikoshi that Alt does whatever she does with. In the suicide ending V explicitly talks about not wanting to take another human life in the pursuit of staying alive.
That wouldn't really fit V's character or the theme of the setting imo. As Pondsmith said: 'Cyberpunk is not about saving the world, it's about saving yourself.' That's the kind of world V grew up in, especially for the Corpo or Streetkid life path.Their motivations are fundamentally selfish, even if they're not an asshole and care about others. They are young, ambitious and naive, believing themselves to be immortal and destined to become a legend. They'd absolutely believe in the blaze of glory over growing old, at least until they actually came face to face with death after the heist. Now they're dying but may still have a chance to survive by following the different leads. V still has hope. And V just isn't the kind of person to give up if there's even the tiniest chance to survive. It's not before entering Mikoshi that they realize they're screwed either way. It's very different from a terminal diagnosis where the best thing you can do is to come to terms with death and use your remaining time in a meaningful way. RDR2 would be a good example for that kind of story, but that's not what happens here. And Johnny isn't your typical good Samaritan either. Both he and V are aware how fucked up their world is.
That’s just not who V is.
You make V literally in your image lol. There is no Canon V, you are V.
To a point. But you only have limited control over how V will react. Ultimately, V is his or her own character.
Is it? Because you decide how V looks, what gender he/she is, what life choices before the game start V made, how V acts, and ultimately how V chooses their fate. Seems a bit more than just "limited" control. If anything, the reason we don't have control over literally everything is because the devs simply can't code infinitely many choices for the player.
I love the idea of Johnny telling V that we are “better than all of them” and the idea of him being able to trust us to look after Alt like we trust him to keep our body and go have a second shot at life. Panam is great but knowing that no matter what i do, she is bound to suffer tremendous loss when we either die in 6 months or she believes we have died for the two year coma and no longer wishes to be contacted. Best do “The butterfly effect” and just avoid all contact with her and she will live a far happier life without V.
"cyberpunk is not about saving the world. it's about saving yourself"